That sort of garbage thinking is why your country is already well into genocide territory in terms of Iraki civilians murdered by your country.

As to the questions posed by your friend Tanbark. Here’s the answer that my Iraki friends and colleagues give to that sort of self-absorbed American nonsense.

It is none of your damned business Amreekan what we do to your puppets who helped you commit your crimes. We will deal with them as we see fit under our laws not yours.

It is none of your damned business Amreekan how we feel or how we make deals with Iran and Iranians.

How we deal with the Kurds and what sort of deal we make with them is none of your damned business Amreekan.

You can discuss – futilely and impotently, and in LaRue’s case also ignorantly, all you want.

Because nothing you do or say will alter one simple fact.

Your country has lost its war against the people of Irak and it is not for losers to dictate the terms. Your best efforts were neither good enough to stop your country starting its war and they haven’t been good enough to end it. The people whose efforts are making your country whipmper in pain are the efforts of the Irakis busy kicking the hell out of your army of occupation and incidentally bankrupting you while they’re at it.

Get used to it.

I simply ask Annie to read what Larue was referring to. If you take that as being rude then ….. well, there’s nothing I can do about your sensitivites.

I read Larue’s post and the background article. I see where he’s coming from. I see where you’re coming from with the Guardian vid, which I also watched.

I think Larue, over all, on here has been pretty pointed, as it should be. Annie and you too. I have no problem with that. I’ve been pointed as well. We’re all on the same side remember?

If you want to be rude to me, I have no problem with that. People are becoming frustrated, with good reason in my estimation. I don’t see the need for any litmus tests or judgements made on who did what when. If two people want to take issue with each other, fine. If you’re going to dogpile anyone, I’m not going to stand back and watch.

If you want to spell check everyone’s posts, fine. If you want to single people out for spelling, well…. I already addressed that. Larue is quite capable of speaking for himself and is quite fair and gracious in his ways.

I only speak for me.

So aside from spelling, and insulting one’s intelligence and reading comprehension, what exactly is your issue with Larue’s post?

I think that is called having a discussion which is, after all, what we’re here for. Isn’t it?

In point of fact, they have BEEN supporting the insurgents who are attacking our troops, and killing the Shiites, in the bloody tit-for-tat.. They’re doing it under the table, by using the same “charities” which Bin Laden used to collect funds and to move them around.
I’m not putting this up as some kind wingnuttery to justify bombing Riyadh or Mecca. I’m doing it to to point out just how fucked we are there. There is simply NOT going to be a happy ending to Operation Enduring Shitmire. Not even close. And so far, not one democratic candidate that I’ve heard, has had the courage to say that.
I don’t even recall seeing that little piece of reality put up on here. And it damn sure has to inform the debate about what direction those of us with the room-temperature I.Q.’s required to know it, want to take, as we try to get our troops home, and as we hope to salvage something out of this loon-crusade. I dare ANYONE on here to set up Clinton, or Edwards, or Obama for an “interview” and to let us have at them with things like:

“Well, Mr./Ms. Candidate; when our troops leave, do you think that the Shiites controlling those Basra fields will feel closer to whatever government we leave behind in Baghdad, or to their fellow Shia in Iran?”

“How long do you think the Maliki “government” will last without our troops there to prop them up? And when it starts to collapse, what do we do?”

“Do you think that if the referendum on who controls Kirkuk is held this year, as mandated by the Iraqi Constitution, that the Kurds will win it? And if you do, what can be done to placate the turks?”

This is just a smattering of the reality-questions that need to be asked of ANY candidate who implies in any way, shape, or or form, that he or she has a plan.

We need to nail them on this, and we need to nail them about their support for a fixed withdrawal date. If none of them want to go that far, then shit on them.

What’s Wes Clarke’s phone number?

Cheney, Halliburton, Abu Dhubai, oil, and Bush Family.

They are LONG time pals of House of Saud, and the Whabbist’s, who are all Sunni, and HAVE been, for hundreds and hundreds of years.

And THEY are killin OUR soldiers in Iraq, NOT the ‘Shia Insurgents’ loyal to Al Malike (Sadr, Badr, SCIRRI).

So we took out a Sunni (Saddam), let the Shia loose, and now, are being kilt by Sunni’s from Saudi, and we want to get and do Iran, to kill the Shia.

So the House Of Saud can rule Whabbist Style, in Shia Country, as our proxy.

But for now, we gotta let the Sunni kill us and the Shia of Al Maliki’s government. Which includes The Sadr Gang and SCIIRI of the Mehdi Army, BADR Gang.

Can someone print a scorecard, cuz I sweah, you’ll make a FORTUNE just sorting it out.

Hmmmmm . . . now that I think of it, why haven’t the fuckin leading blogs posted a compilation ‘SCORECARD’ type of item, as an explanation of things in general to EDUCATE the stupid masses in a more EFFICIENT fashion?

He followed this almost immediately with rude comments to Eureka Springs @118 and a nasty message to Brkily @119 who helpfully had asked for calls to Congress on impeachment.

And he finished off his visit with the following:

Where were you in 2000? What were your efforts?

Mine were personally waged, but on a few websites among people of like minds.

This country slept thru the takeover.

Harumph.

Now Larue and you may think that efforts “waged … on a few websites among people of like minds” is awesome activism and you are welcome to your opinion but that does not grant Larue the right to insult others here, especially those who took their activism beyond “a few websites among people of like minds.”

You seem to pick up the same m.o. as Larue by being snotty to annie who is one of the most knowledgeable people I know on the issues being discussed and who had offered a particularly good link to help Larue learn a bit about Iraq, something he clearly needs.

Attacking commenters when you yourself have not a clue is a bad idea. Ask questions, disagree, discuss … but insulting other commenters with no provocation is guaranteed to get a response … and that is “FDLish”.

If you’d care to take this further, feel free to email me at the address on the Firedoglake About page.

My next response however is likely to simply be the following:

“what Dubhaltach said” (142)

The same way they always do: they don’t know, and they don’t care. It’s lack of knowledge of their own recent history. USA has interfered foreign countries issues all over the globe, continuosly, so that their big corporations could use and steal foreign countries’ resources. USA’s prime doctrine is to reach global hegemony, and club down every possible adversary. But Americans do not know, and they do not care. They do not see that it is their own country that creates problems and then steps in “to help”: the oldest excuse for war. Yes, Americans. You have been lied to. All the time. And it’s easy because you don’t care. Even now, you’re more worried about the 1,500 dead Americans than the 650,000 dead Iraqis and 4 million refugees. If there wouldn’t be hundreds of dead Americans, Iraq wouldn’t even be an issue!

Who imported the fanatical mujaheddin fighters into Afghanistan? Who was preparing war against Afghanistan before 9/11? Why does Afghanistan now provide more drugs than ever? Who wanted the oil pipe through Afghanistan? Who made Saddam the leader? Who armed and supported Iraqi Shiites and Kurds civil war against Saddam? Who wanted the Iraqi oil? Who arranged regime change in Iran and supported a totalitarian dictator? Who financed and supported Saddam’s attack into Iran? Who wanted the Iranian oil? What kind of a country Saudi Arabia is, and how does it stay that way? Who wants Saudi oil? Do you know? Do you care?

The infant death rate has risen 150% from 2003 to 2005 in Iraq. Every 8th Iraqi child of under 5 years old died 2005. Probably dies each year. Majority of the additional deaths (91.8 percent) was caused by violence. You should care.

ps larue, you may want to follow missing links (one of several good sites) for a few months, including all the archives, then you may be qualified to post about these issues you clearly know nothing about.

Annie, I suggest you read the article Larue referenced from the Sunday LA Times via Rising Hegemon prior to your complete dismissal of another poster.

We (Tanbark, Larue, and I) have talked about the Saudi connection many times and to see this on LA Times page A1 is worth some discussion relating to the topic of this string.

I had watched Siun’s posted video link via a link on aw.com prior to my FDL visit and I was glad to see it posted here and the discussion as well.

I don’t think its very FDLish of Siun or yourself to be quite so rude to Larue for having his say. That parental style dismissal is really pretty much what we’ve experienced from the rightards for years now. I’m really quite surprised by it from FDLers.

I’ve been at a conference in Seattle for a week so I’m kinda taken aback to see this on my “catch up” tour of my favorite blogs.

What’s going on in Iraq is simply that bush doesn’t have a clue about how to “stabilize” the place.

i just read this update from Ali al-Fadhily sent to me from dahr jamail

frightening.

Partition Fears Begin to Rise

Many Iraqis are now beginning to see the rising sectarian violence as part of a larger plan to partition the country.

“Americans want to alter the shape of our cities, dividing Iraqis into ethnic and sectarian groups living separately from each other,” Khali Sadiq, a researcher in statistics at Baghdad University told IPS.

worth reading the whole thing. the upshot.. i don’t think the neocon goal is to stabalize iraq, i think it is to make sure iraq is divided along sectarian lines and regions. sure, they would like to stabalize for this outcome but if push comes to shove they will chose instability over not getting there way. why? to more easily access the oil. divide and conquer and all that.

What’s going on in Iraq is simply that bush doesn’t have a clue about how to “stabilize” the place.

He’s trying to placate all the factions, one week, and then playing them off against each other, the next. Note to Siun, and Annie, and anyone else. SCIRI’s name-change was a PR sop. It’s the same (Mostly) Badr Bunch. Calling themselves the “Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq” was getting them some bad press. The fact that they WOULD change it shows the distance between themselves and SADR.

Lately, Al Hakim has been sucking up to bushCo like it was his mother’s breast. Are you guys looking for Sadr to do this? Don’t hold your breath.

Now that practically every one of the remaining 5500 Brits are behind the wire at the Basra Airport (wise choice!) the various militias are jockeying for control of Basra, and for those big fields down there. The Iraqi “government” there, just like the part of it that’s hiding out in the green zone in Baghdad, won’t last a week, if they go against the wishes of the militias in Basra.

I’m not sure if bush wants to see a Saudi-dominated Iraq, but at this point, he probably would, if it would mean an end to the violence and to the insurgency.

Of course, that’s a total fantasy. The Shiites are going to control the biggest reserves in Iraq (those around Basra) and the Kurds will eventually control most of the ones around Kirkuk.

In fact, that referendum to decide if Kirkuk is annexed to the Kurdish area to the north, is bearing down on bush like a runaway locomotive.

The Turks don’t want to see Kirkuk formally go to the Kurds, and neither does Maliki. For that matter, neither does bush. But the Kurds have a hell of a hammer there, and I don’t know what junior can offer them to not swing it, to postpone the constitutionally mandated vote by the end of this year.

Whatever. Push is coming to shove, and we just need to keep the pressure on bush, and the democrats, and watch the republican rats as they jitterbug around the gangplank.

Alecia-with-an’”e”:

Excuse me for asking: Are you from Louisiana?”

I’m almost certain not, but I had to ask.