Finifinito, who does tech set-up for the amazing music sets each week for Donita Sparks’ Friday “Spin I’m In,” has also pulled together a great series called “Meet The Bloggers” for Blog Talk Radio. Today, at noon ET, Fini has a great show lined up:
This week’s show is about citizen journalism and the impact sites like FDL and TPM have had. Today I have an interview with Pauline Millard of Editor & Publisher where she is the online editor. I also have Marcy Wheeler sitting in on the panel discussion segment after the interview with Pauline Millard. Ruth Holladay formerly a columnist and reporter at the Indianapolis Star and currently blogging at ruthholladay.com will also be a guest blogger on the panel.
Listeners to the live streaming audio signal can also call in to the show and talk to Ruth and Marcy in the call in segment the last 15-20 minutes of the hour. The show airs at 12 noon EDT/9 am PDT for one hour at http://blogtalkradio.com/meetthebloggers. It is then podcast from that page, or listeners can go there and subscribe to the podcast from iTunes or their favorite feed reader like Google Reader or NewsGator.
What a great idea! Can’t wait to hear the discussion. Hope that Marcy gets a chance to talk about the work she did last week dispelling the “runaway prosecutor” myth from the right. Because, frankly, she sure as hell won’t get a chance to talk about it with any of the corporate media types — it doesn’t fit their preconceived, prepackaged, spoon-fed narrative.
More than that, though, I am so glad to see a forum for the discussion of citizen journalism and accountability from outside the Beltway. Dan Froomkin had a great column this past week on the Neiman site about internet journalism and the example set by the great I.F. Stone:
…There were many ways in which Stone distinguished himself from his more conventional colleagues. He wasn’t a slave to access. He adored burrowing into original documents. He didn’t hesitate to call a lie a lie. And he was relentless. Those characteristics seem to be in short supply among today’s media elite — as the trial of former vice presidential aide Scooter Libby (and its coverage) illustrated so clearly. Instead, it’s the bloggers who have taken up Stone’s mantle.
On the issue of access, MacPherson quotes longtime Washington reporter Marvin Kalb on Stone: “He didn’t care what the ’senior officials’ said on ‘deep background,’ because I think he assumed they were lying or misleading the press in any case.” MacPherson quotes Stone himself: “You cannot get intimate with officials and maintain your independence.” Whether they were “good guys” or “bad guys” was incidental to him. “They’ll use you.” For Stone, an interview was not an occasion to get spun, but an opportunity to confront an official with facts. He deplored “baby questions.”
Some of Stone’s biggest exposés came simply from reading. Legendary Washington Post reporter Walter Pincus told MacPherson: “Izzy really set the pattern for reading hearings. I still do it. It’s the only way to report around Washington. He was constantly harping on that.” Pincus enumerated the reasons why few reporters dig into documents: “One, they don’t want to believe that someone would deliberately mislead them. Two, it takes a lot of work and time. Three, they don’t want to be the object of opprobrium for writing critical pieces. People assume that you will be cut off. That’s wrong. As long as you write critical pieces that are accurate, you gain respect. As long as they know that by not cooperating they’re not going to stop you from writing anyway, many get the idea that it’s better to cooperate. And by contacting them, they can’t accuse you of not being fair.”
Even as bloggers — and Jon Stewart — build huge audiences at least in part by enthusiastically calling bullshit on government lies, aggressively adversarial journalism seems to be frowned upon in many newsrooms….
This is exactly what we have been trying to do, in our own way – what Jane and I have striven for from the get go here. We saw a need for someone to dig into the legal filings and statements in the Traitorgate investigation, because so much of the reporting on the case at that time was coming from wholly unrelated spin with no factual underpinnings. When you’ve read the original documents — and then you read some fabricated summary that someone pulled out of their Birkin bag and handed off to a more-than-willing stenographer who has a filing deadline and no desire to insert skepticism into the mix…you get more than a glimpse of how things ought never to work.
That any of us were able to help reverse that trend, to cut through the spin and get to the facts of any of this mess is a miracle in and of itself. As Jane said in a recent piece for the WSJ (yes, you read that correctly):
…That message wasn’t carried by the beltway Brahmins of the MSM, the media elite who transcend party loyalties and embrace Libby as one of their own. They collectively bristled at the thought that Scooter (and no doubt themselves) should be subject to the verdict of some “ignorant jury” (as Ann Coulter likes to call them). No, that message was carried by bloggers and their readers, the thousands of people who collectively pored over the story’s coverage, serving as institutional memory and holding media outlets to account when the politics of access journalism threaten to obscure the truth.
At a time when government is in desperate need of oversight and the Fourth Estate has become uncomfortably close with those they are tasked with covering, the progressive blogosphere is a place where erstwhile Howard Beales coalesce to fill the gap. They come together to challenge the virulent Rovian notion that no law is so sacred, no tenet of national security so vital it can’t be flouted in the pursuit of political gain. Scooter and other hermetically sealed beltway denizens may think he’s a hero, but the rest of the country realizes he’s nothing better than a garden variety crook.
It ain’t perfect, but it’s progress.
Huge thanks to Fini for putting this show together. I know I’ll be listening!
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Morning Christy!
HI
awesome!
(((((((Christy and Jane!)))))))
Am I early?
FDL, John Stewart, Josh Marshall, Bill Moyers, and Keith Olbermann is where I go to get my news. I’ll do my own spinning, thanks. I can’t watch MSM any more. There isn’t an Accupril dosage high enough to keep my blood pressure from spiking. I’ve even given up on NPR who have been sadly taken down by the Right Wing Overlords.
Sen. Jim Webb,D-Va blew Sen. Lindsey Graham , R-S.C. out of the water during their discussion about Iraq on Meet the Press. Graham just spewing W.H. talking points and getting red in the face.
Great idea! All efforts to spread the message are important.
Hi Children of the Lake –
I don’t comment often, but the topic above intrigued me. I don’t think there’s a better modern example of what Pincus — and, through him, Stone — are talking about than the great work done by my Boston Globe colleague, Charlie Savage,on the misuse of presidential signing statements. It was all about grinding through hundreds of documents, and it won a Pulitzer, so maybe there’s hope.
Good morning!
Jane sure can write.
Before the crowd arrives, may I just ask how it came to be that Senators on whom I at least had pinned so much hope ALL let us down so badly with that Levin-Lieberman thing?/
Whitehouse?? Who gets to these people?? And how??
ceci @ 7
I missed the show…share the details so I can live vicariously :)
Morning Christy.
I’m bringing up a question epu’d downstairs.
Would really appreciate comments thereon.
Thanks much.
Thanks, Rayne, for your comments downstairs. I understand, and agree with you, but still wonder why afix a beacon? We know who we are, pretty much.
I guess I just pulled my foil hat down a little too tight today. I hope you’ll excuse me and allow me to play in the Lake’s cooling waters anyway. You guys are the best of the best.
Jim Webb!
Marretta @ 6
Yup!
behindthefall @ 11
Whitehouse. That one hurts. Yep.
Charles at 9 — I’d second that — Charlie’s work on signing statements has been exceptional. He more than earned that Pulitzer, especially in the face of so much indifference from the rest of his media colleagues. Charlie’s work is superb, and he deserves every accolade that he gets.
Yes, and Jim Webb: What’s HE doing voting for Levin-Lieberman, too?
Notes from the tall timber:
Today’s meet the press most valuable moment was the statement by Senator Webb that Iraq is a failed occupation, not a war. Thank you Senator Webb!
As for the rest of the hour, call it what it was: incestuous boys’ club circle jerk. Everything that’s wrong with Washington shown in that moment. Busily covering the ass of the Prince of Darkness [yer still gonna burn in hell, buddy, no matter how much your cronies love you].
Note to all the boys: just because someone is not charged with a crime does not mean that no crime was committed. No matter how many times Novak says it. No matter how many times his buddies allow it to go unchallenged.
And after reading in the Strib that an audit showed former Sec of State [she of disenfranchising Native Americans] Mary Kiffmeyer is alleged to have overpaid herself and her staff during her last 18 months in office, I have this all-encompassing slogan for every Republican candidate in ‘08: Corruption R Us.
How close was Webb to just “popping” Lizzy, er Lindney? There was a “laying of the hands” at least twice.
ceci @ 7
ceci @ 7
Can’t wait to see it.
charles pierce @ 9
Welcome Charles — kudos to Savage and congrat to him and the Globe for the Pulitzer Prize stories. And there are more than children here.
As Jane said in a recent piece for the WSJ (yes, you read that correctly)……..
what’s this world coming to, uh, pretty kewl! So, Tom Wolfe hates blogs? what else is new.Me too. Can’t wait!! Thanks for the info.
I hope someone covers — with particular reference to today’s Talking Heads line-up — how to get more bloggers on these shows instead of just the Usual Suspects.
The WSJ’s a start for increasing awareness.
BTW, one of the “guys” I send stuff to in Afghanistan through the AnySoldier program mentioned in an e-mail to me that he’d seen Sicko on the base. [!!!!!!] I both referred him to, and cut & pasted a then-current thread on Sicko [by Scarecrow, as I recall].
He LOVED FDL — needless to say hadn’t seen it before.
I’m always very careful with the “guys” I communicate with over there — don’t discuss politics, etc., just wish them a safe, speedy return. Thus it was GREAT to have this positive interaction and the promise from him that he’d “spread the word.”
ET — Read Digby’s piece on that. It’s hilarious!
Christy, thanks for the plug for the show! I look forward to today’s show, but if you want to hear previous episodes you can hear them in the Segment Archives at the BlogTalkRadio host page for the show.
I’m also going to be doing a special Blogosphere Day edition of the show this Thursday at 7pm EDT/4 pm PDT to promote some candidates being advocated for by any bloggers who want to call in to the show. See the host page for the dial in number to call if you want to pimp your candidate on the show that day.
From the WSJ article referenced above:
What an a**.
Marretta @ 6
Ditto, ditto and ditto.
I used to be a long-time CBS devotee. Dan Rather started at my Houston tv station, covering hurricanes, and I loved him through his standing up to Nixon and onward.
CBS also had a stable of good reporters who created the network’s well-deserved appellation as “Tiffany.”
However, when TPTB put Katie Couric in the anchor chair, I left. I tried both NBC & ABC, because [cough, cough] many years of watching nightly news was a hard habit to break.
Now, however, I rely on FDL, TNH, Keith, Josh & my Usual Suspects.
FiniFiniTOOBZ! @ 26
Fini!
There is a devastating article in the NYT this morning about the change in attitude of military serving in Iraq and their families. Examples:
allan_in_upstate @ 27
he’s the nit who always wears the same white suit and hat, right? makes it easier for his’n butler to dress ‘im in the mornin’, i guess…
Elliott @ 29
Elliot! Thanks for the message on FB.
Everytime I see Webb in action I just get a huge grin on my face. I suggested downstairs that he needs to start his own defense against the dark arts classes for Democrats. Cutting through the spin is hard work but when done by an expert it sure makes the rethugs look like the invertebrate slime they are. I hope there will be video of Webb wiping the floor with Foghorn Leghorn.
EPU’ed
On ABC Stephanopoulos has Hadley on. S. doesn’t challenge the interim report. H. gives standard BS that a report he probably had a major hand in creating shows “progress”. Tries to draw distinction between al Qaeda and al Qaeda in Iraq. H. misdirects. S. brings up resurgent al Qaeda report. H. gets to shift his talk to Pakistan but no talk how this represents a failure in Bush policy.
IOW S. challenges one point ineffectually and then lets H. deliver half a dozen talking points unchallenged. I think any of us here could do better than this in our sleep.
Scarecrow @ 30
How many human beings has BushCo scarred for life??
behindthefall @ 18
Webb – “Lindsay’s had a hard week…”
GORE-WEBB 2008!
Scarecrow @ 30
This coupled with Arianna’s comment that Bush may make decisions because he’s afraid of al-Chee-knee over here leaves me heartsick. Why are the Republicans continuing to defend this conduct? And how can we let one more person die or be maimed for this insanity?
America the Shamed.
Just checking this facebook thing.
I HATE Press the Meat. Haven’t watched it in a long, long time. But this is PRICELESS!
Jane Hamsher @ 21
are those ever re-broadcast? linked?
Lindy @ 38
A-OK
Ed*ard Teller @ 39
Webb:
“My family’s been doing it since the revolutionary war!”
Ding!
Ed*ard Teller @ 36
purt-near perfect!
Hadley on CNN defending al Maliki but saying Bush has observed the Iraqi leader and has seen him grow in office. The blind observing the near sighted?
Wonder what al Maliki thinks of Bush and Hadley, both of whom presume to lecture the Iraqis on the need for political reconciliation. Do these people really not recognize how absurd they are/sound? How is it possible to go through this act, day after day, and not implode from cognitive dissonance? And why can’t a reporter just ask them, “Are you nuts?”
A coupla stories not getting much traction in the blogosphere, but FWIW:
The Tripoli Six – 5 Bulgarian Nurses and a Palestinian doctor – all aid workers in a Libyan hospital – have been sentenced to death. Condi and Bush want desperately to play with Libya (it couldn’t possibly be the oil), and so the only thing that has been done publicly is to acknowledge that Bush handed through a letter encouraging – in the gentlest of terms – that Libya release the aid workers.
Even thought the death sentence was lost on appeal, it appears that blood money deals are in the final stages. The pall that this has had on humanitarian aid globally is a big factor in how difficult it is to recruit and place workers in hot spots.
Wooh. Novak’s section on MTP just finished in NYC. Had to don my sun glasses to mute the glare from his teeth.
Scarecrow @ 44
Heckuva job, Nouri, heh, heh, heh….
Warner on ABC way past it. I expect Bush when he gets the reports in September he will change course.
This is stupid and disingenuous. Crocker and Petraeus are Bush’s men. They will have some quibbles but will continue to back the Bush policy. And why exactly does Warner think that Bush has to wait til September? Where has he been the last 4 years and 4 months?
charles pierce @ 9
One of my HEROES! Please tell us how much you love New Orleans!
Charlie Savage has been quoted here often.
Adie @ 13
What’s the harm? You have no privacy from the gov’t online – all they have to do is ask your ISP who Adie is.
The gov’t has it’s hands full, trying madly to bail a sinking ship of state, they’re not going to bother with us small fry.
Keeping your identity from wingnuts is a valid concern, but again, you have to be dangerous enough to attract the Malkin’s attention (hence places like SadlyNo – which specializes in mocking the wingnuts – attract hordes of really nasty trolls).
Tom Wolfe, Neo-con novelist, who hates dirty hippies. I can hardly wait for BlogTalk!
One of the reasons Webb did well on MTP was that he refused to allow that idiot Russert to conduct two separate interviews. Webb blew through Russert’s irrelvant questions and went right after the toxic tripe being spewed by Mayberry’s Senator.
Scarecrow @ 44
Well, it’s clear what al Maliki thinks of Bush’s BFFs, the Saudis,
since Saudi Arabia is suppplying half of the suicide bombers in Iraq.
My contempt for Bob Shrum will never subside. I can’t believe I’m watching this instead of doing something productive.
Isn’t it poignant that when the WSJ discovers blogs and asks 10 people to write about them, only one is a real blogger? Our Jane! (Well, Mia has this diary and its poignant itself, but I mean in the blog-and-pungent-comments category.)
Everyone else is someone who writes something about blogs, but the one true blogmistress or blogmaster is our Jane.
First, the NYT comes out against the war (finally). Next, the WSJ gives Jane a spot. I’ll be watching the NY Daily News site for important changes coming there. . . . .
newtonusr @ 42
Webb’s tells that story in his book Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America
I read it before he ran for office, I liked it.
Adie @ 40
MSNBC will re-broadcast a couple of times later today/tonight.
Scarecrow @ 44
Naw, naw, he looked into his eyes and saw his soul.
Ed*ard Teller @ 54
What’s the probability that the D’s Third Way is a deliberate strategy of Karl Rove, and the D consultants are his agents?
eCAHNomics @ 46
Don’t read the NYTimes magazine then. The Novakula is inteviewed and all his talking points are lined up in a row.
MSNBC usually rebroadcasts MtP in the early evening (6-ish ET) and then again later (around 10-ish ET). Check your local listings for times on that.
Ed*ard Teller @ 54
Someone must take out the (wingnut) trash.
eCAHNomics @ 59
They’re all part of the same ruling elite who pass the same stale ideas around at the cocktail parties. Stupidity is bipartisan.
Marretta @ 6
Left you a response to your question in re: H2Ogate at bottom of last thread…
Schiffer (sp?) seems to have reached *his* tipping point this morning due to the Irq. parliment taking August off; he kept hitting the ubiquitous hadley with that question again and again and again. Ticked Schiffer appeared, he did. Also brought up snowjob’s idiotic talking point about it being 130 degrees there in August; maybe the meds he’s on are affecting his brain. Naaaaawwwww, snow’s a republic……his brain’s BEEN mucked up for a long time. ;-(
Prairie Sunshine @ 37
Prairie Sunshine and Scarecrow….That was a great truth in the NYT and it is what, in part, makes Webb run.
It also makes me ask: who is going to pardon Bush. he and his crimes need to be pursued into the next administration to show that stuff like that can’t be done again.
My fear is that he will see the truth coming and resign cause he cant pardon himself and no Dem is going to do that for him.
If they hadn’t lost the impeachment conviction, the goopers would have chased Clinton when he was out of office.
allan_in_upstate @ 53
. . .
Well, it’s clear what al Maliki thinks of Bush’s BFFs, the Saudis,
since Saudi Arabia is suppplying half of the suicide bombers in Iraq.
From that LA Times article:
Mornin CHS, Jane and all pups everywhere,
EPU’d below but can anyone advise? Drew a peace sign on my car’s U.S. flag decal. Is that considered defacement? It’s right next to my Impeach em sign recommended yesterday by Petrocelli I think. I’m lurkin less and luvin it more.
Peace, bluejeansntshirt
Obama re the Clintons – “It’s time to turn the page…” Webb should have tried that line on Graham, eh?
Ed*ard Teller @ 69
UGH! That godawful Bob Seger song is stuck in my head! DAMNIT MAN!
Waccamaw @ 65
No vote, No recess. The Dems need to keep the Senate in session till they get a vote on withdrawal and the Webb amendment.
Troops get an extended tour so should the Senate.
Let the Goopers complain about it–I doubt they want to go the way of the Iraqi parliment and go home while brave men and woman are dying in Iraq.
No vote No recess.
Make the Goopers do a REAL filibuster with cots and phone books and diapers and all. I agree with Ian. You have to show these dogs who is boss. Dont bring your knife and smile to a gunfight.
bluejeansntshirt @ 68
I think they have tried to call it defacement but even the flags with the stars arranged in a peace sign have been declared protected speech. Or at least up until the Federalist Society took over.
The chilling article on the decline in morale in military families and the current trial where the witnesses are talking about shooting wounded Iraqis a second time to finish the job. “If he was worth shooting once he was worth shooting again,” makes me think that the war crimes that have been exposed so far over there are just the tip of the iceberg. Of course they have removed the restrictions on recruiting people with criminal records. I’m starting to think that they want sociopaths over there instead of people who would see the people of Iraq as human beings. Those who have a moral compass are either going to go quietly insane or take the extreme action of deserting. The frequent referrals to the robotic voices of military people forced to live through these horrors over and over scare the hell out of me. We can keep out enraged Iraqis, but these guys are eventually going to come home with mental problems that are going to make WWI “shellshock” look like a walk in the park.
peterboy –
A great idea. Let Nancy and Harry say, we’re staying here until we give the troops a break. Brilliant.
FiniFiniTOOBZ! @ 70
Now c’mon! The thing about that song is we know Seger lived going into the diner after a night on the road and hearing the question is that a woman or a man. That was a quite common occurence if you had long hair in the late ’60s/early ’70s believe me.
dakine01 @ 75
Oh I know that, as a child who grew up in the 70s and 80s with an oldest brother who is a musician with long hair back then I witnessed that scenario going to dinner in public with him. I saw him fight people over it back then. It is still a godawful tune though. Maybe its just that the local classic rock station has buried that song deep into my skull over the years to the point I am sick of it.
Well its been fun, I got a show to get ready and do so I’m gone. Be sure to listen in, and feel free to call in. The dial in number is at the top of my host page on BlogTalkRadio. See ya!
Scarecrow @ 67
That is excellent. It needs to be pointed out to the Liebermans of this world and now apparently the whole US Senate that when they single out Iran they need to be reminded of both Saudi Arabia’s and Pakistan’s tacit support of the insurgency in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan, respectively. Their actions result in the deaths and maiming of far more Americans than anything the Iranians have done.
Just thank you.
Consider the odds!
Scarecrow @ 74
The Congress considers themselves worthy of a raise amounting to two months of a Privates pay while a GI’s family is forced to stand in line at a food pantry. They WILL NOT miss their vacation for a mere Constitutional crisis…
FiniFiniTOOBZ! @ 77
Break a leg, Fini!
nonplussed @ 81
One would hope, nonplussed, that they take their role and oath more seriously than say Sara Taylor.
peterboy -
Sorry if I wasn’t completely clear……… the topic between Schiffer & hadley was the IRAQ parliment going on holiday. But totally agree with you that there should be NO August recess for the deecee crew.
edited by W – on rereading your comment, realized you did get my drift. My bad.
Part of the Webb appearance is now up on ThinkProgress.
Marretta @ 73
Maretta,
For a good explanation read Jonathon Shays’ “Achilles in Vietnam” which compares modern warfare with ancient Grecian Warrior virtues. A stunning insight into Post Tramatic events.(Shays is a Psychiatrist who treats Vietnam Vets)
Marretta @ 73
Spot on! Ticking time bombs instead of human beings.
fini’s show started
Thanks Dakine01 @72
Sometimes tough being the only DFH in the neighborhood(staten island). I better go look out the window and make sure my tires aren’t being flattened.
dmg, thanks for the suggestions on h20gate reading downstairs. It is past time for me to stuff that gap in my education with some information.
I love the tee shirt! Republicans for Voldemort indeed. You know those repugs do remind me of death eaters. My daughter would love a shirt like that. She is 25, living in New Zealand with her German spouse. He is in the German Diplomatic Corps. She called me in tears the other day because some guy at the museum where she works got nasty with her when he heard her American accent and complained about them hiring an American instead of a native. She is a student at Victoria University and needs her job to pay for school and books. Poor kid, she didn’t vote for Bush and she has never voted Republican in her life.
peterboy says @ 66
That is so “reality based” thinking…It’s not
the game “they” are playing. I think “they” have
created a new reality in the past several weeks
and we are way behind.
When I read this in ‘04, I thought it was just a
WH staff puke feeling self important. I was
wrong.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/mag…..ssuserland
This is the key paragraph:
The aide said that guys like me were ”in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who ”believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ”That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. ”We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
When you combine those thoughts with John Dean’s
piece from last Friday..well..we are three steps
behind and are not catching up.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070713.html
Is Comstock making so much money that she can afford a $10,000 handbag? Surely she wasn’t for most of her career.
Interesting as as clue to what makes her tick.
Here is a good song for our day. “Reach one and teach one” is what they say. I say, reach one, impeach one” (or two).
O/t: more f*ckery on the home front via the Globe and this one will *really* get Christy’s ire up big time!
“Crime lab neglected 16,000 cases”
http://www.boston.com/news/loc…..000_cases/
allan_in_upstate @ 27
Well, yeah, Tom. But forty years ago, there was no Internet. And the Government didn’t control the media that closely. I’m old enough to have attended several of Marshall McLuhan’s lectures when he was in San Francisco, and afterwards (at the receptions) I would ask him questions, and one of his comments was, that if the Government ever takes control of the mass media we are all in trouble. “And what do we do about it?” I asked. “Something else will have to emerge, or we will be no better than the Soviet Union.” So Tom. Siddown and shadup!
bluejeansntshirt @ 88
I’m a bit of a coward (and have lived too many times in heavy red state areas), so I don’t put any bumper stickers of any type on my car. No matter what the seemingly innocuous nature of a sticker may be, it is bound to p*ss someone off and I don’t need the aggravation.
undecided at 91 — I don’t know about Comstock’s revenue stream, but I do know that Birkin bags have traditionally been nicknamed the “mistress bag” because they are the traditional “gift” to one’s assignation at the end of an affair. At least, for the monied set, anyway, that’s been true for years…no idea if that would or would not apply to Comstock, but it was worth a giggle when I first saw the bag. *g*
Jim at 85, thanks for the suggestion on reading. The more I read the less hopeful I become, but it is important to understand because we have to fight to get some help for the people who do come home. I know that the sanitized version of what goes on over there is a crock. Look into the eyes of anyone who has lived through war. Those poor souls are never the same, and my gut feeling is that the ones who survive this one will have it worse than the kids from Vietnam. Heaven help us all.
Thanks for the heads up CHS on the “blog talk radio”
Steve deplores “baby questions” me too!
On John Stewart he rips it up on almost all politics with the exception of the Israeli Palestinian conflict (he never EVER touches this topic) or the Israeli lobby (will not touch it). I challenge anyone to provide an example of Stewart touching these issues on his program
Calling the Libby trial “traitorgate” really hits the nail on the head!
Jane’s comments about the MSM are piercing.
On the topic of the MSM Tim Russert provided the American public with another horrible disservice this morning on Meet The Press. He allowed Senator Webb and Senator Graham to talk over one another while discussing the situation in Iraq.
I would very much like to hear what both of them have to say, but Russert did not moderate for quite a period of time. Mr. Russert just how does that provide the American public with an opportuniity to gather more information and insights from our Reps if you allow them to talk over each other. Where was the moderation?
Senator Webb targeted Liebermann, saying that Liebermann is not only pushing hard for a confrontation with Iran but with Pakistan and Syria. Lieberamann is following the PNAC guidelines and the “Clean (bloody) Break; A New Strategy for Securing the Realm” pushed by a groupd of radical zealots.
Thank you Senator Webb for calling Senator Liebermann out. The only other Senator I have witnessed call Lieberann out is Senator Hagel.
I really wish Fox News would put someone on like Amy Goodman, Jane Hamsher or Katrina Vanden Heuvel to represent the Progressive segment of the population. Fox had Bill Kristol and Charles Krauthammer on representing the far wrong and Juan Williams and Mara Liasson representing the left. Mara Liasson is not a good or fair representative for the other side of issues. She lines up with Kristol and Krauthammer on far too many issues.
I challenge Fox to bring on Amy Goodman, Jane Hamsher, CHS, Marcy or Katrina from the Nation to provide another perspective.
Scarecrow @ 84
Webb called Liebermann out. Webb said that Liebermann was pushing hard for a confrontation with not only Iran, but Syria, Pakistan and who knows where LIebermann wants to go next.
steve @ 90.
I know the we-make-our-own-reality quote and meme.
I don’t get your point though about Chimpy being 3 steps ahead.
Congress has the power of inherent contempt. I grant that the five on the Supreme Court might go along with Bush…but I doubt it is a done deal.
If you are WH you have no choice but to hide the truth behind Executive Privilege. Do you really think EP for RNC emails and for the Tillman stuff is sustainable???
Marretta @ 97
First, we need to provide media coverage for those who return – by whatever means – coffins, on stretchers, in wheelchairs or walking.
Second, every community will have to pull together to support veterans with support groups, with volunteer services, and with advocating for them to get the services and support they need that can’t be provided with peer support. That means not allowing families to go bankrupt because the spouse/wage earner is now at the soldier’s bedside at Walter Reed paying for temporary housing and food to do so. It means not allowing veterans to remain isolated as they struggle with symptoms of PTSD and brain injuries. It means going to court with them when they act up and act out in violent ways. It means footing the bills for their schooling and training so that they can get and keep jobs. Etc.
Right now, it’s pretty much only veterans’ groups that are doing this. It’s not right that vets shoulder all of the burdens that going to war produced. That’s one area where as private citizens, we can and must support returning service members. The louder and the denser the support from citizens, the better to highlight the lack of services coming from Bush’s policies. As I keep harping, Bush plans to CUT veterans healthcare spending starting next year.
Marcy up now on the radio show.
Marcy on!
I challenge Fox to bring on Amy Goodman, Jane Hamsher, CHS, Marcy or Katrina from the Nation to provide another perspective.
Just not gonna happen. FOX can’t deal with treating people who think independently as, well, as – humans. The only liberals they put on the air there are there to be mocked, and I doubt any of the folks you mention want to be demeaned. Marcy has a good smackdown of FOX’s sleaziest commentator up. Juan Williams only appears to be liberal in contrast to the whores they seat him with.
Speaking of Amy Goodman – when are we going to invite her here, Redd?
Ed*ard Teller @ 103
The final straw on the MSM for me was the Dohahue interview that Bill Moyers did when Donahue revealed that they had to put two right wing bloviators on the show to counter one liberal. It’s been a while since they fired Phil. Now they are stacking the deck with faux liberal or not bothering to put one in there at all. Too disruptive. They don’t want someone injecting reality into their punditry. Fair and Balanced my great Aunt Edna!
Marretta @ 106
How about accurate and representative? I’d take that for a start from any mainstream media source. How is Great Aunt Edna, BTW? *g*
dakine at 95 says-”I’m a bit of a coward (and have lived too many times in heavy red state areas), so I don’t put any bumper stickers of any type on my car. No matter what the seemingly innocuous nature of a sticker may be, it is bound to p*ss someone off and I don’t need the aggravation.”
dakine, a few years ago i FINALLY found the perfect bumper sticker-in snowshoe, wva……
when you tell the truth you don’t have to remember what you said.
you wouldn’t believe how many people have commented on it. one lady in a very crowded gas station yelled out-who has the bumper sticker that says………
a few have looked, then looked away, guilty..point made, look! made you think!…(saw them while pumping gas)
Via AP, re the “terrorists”: NSA Hadley said “the president talking about the vision of democracy…”.
How infuriating, this kind of spin. This pres has no respect for democracy, he does not know what it is, he could not care less. But in my eyes, he is not a moron – sociopath more probable. And so many support him? So many can’t stand up to him? What is really going on here? (rhethorical question).
dmac @ 108
THAT sticker I might use. Hell, being lazy as well as a coward, truth makes the most sense as I don’t have to work at remembering what lies told to what people. Just tell the truth and let it go.
dmac @ 9:33 -
If you ever find another source for that priceless bumper sticker, please pass the info to the Lake.
edward the teller-
wanted you to know, big expos-e type report about ted and ben stevens on npr today……about the salmon fishing licenses and consultancy fees in regard to ben, and about legislation his dad, ted, passed to make it all rain down on him in a good way…….
so, it made national, and wasn’t flattering to either of them…..said ted is getting ready to pass legislation to ‘fine-tune’ the legislation that he passed last year…….
peterboy @ 100
The big question to me is; the Executive Privilege being pushed now, defensive or offensive? I think John Dean may be correct and this is a offensive move to legalize the Unitary Exec. I think he is wrong about “Inherent Contempt” still being viable. John is still playing by the rules and thinks that Scalia’s opinion is Young v. US is still operative. I hope he is right but if we are now down to depending on Nino Scalia saving the “Rule of law” well..what can I say
Al Gore’s daughter, Sara, was married over the weekend. That would be a reason not to declare a candidacy just now – not upstaging his daughter’s wedding. (One can hope, right?)
OT
Sunday Gizmo update.
Drive-by By Al The Spook:
New Post Up At Ravings Of A Rational Mind.
Fair warning, it’s not pretty. Not tin foil hat, either. This may be what has been going on after all. If so, we are in for some very rough times and will have to be very very careful.
OTOH, I may be completely wrong. I have been before and will be again. But I’m right a lot more than I’m wrong….
Can’t stay to chat, have to clean out a garage. Yuck. (poof)
dakine “THAT sticker I might use. Hell, being lazy as well as a coward, truth makes the most sense as I don’t have to work at remembering what lies told to what people. Just tell the truth and let it go.”
and waccamaw-
i bought it as a f* you to my former spouse, we were still married then..i still remember the secret thrill that went through my body when i found it…..passive resistance, not a da*n thing he could do about it……..i was all about truth, in everything, he was about winning…he would lie and lie and twist and squirm, republican……i love it that every time he pulled in behind my car, he saw my bumper sticker……..best purchase i ever made………
Just got my call into Marcy what a smart woman
Call in the number is at the top of the Blog radio site.
On CNN, Congress vs. White House, we’ll see how good it is.
kathleen at 98
“On John Stewart he rips it up on almost all politics with the exception of the Israeli Palestinian conflict (he never EVER touches this topic) or the Israeli lobby (will not touch it). I challenge anyone to provide an example of Stewart touching these issues on his program”
i think his usual mode of operation is going after politicians, not issues…..
love you all….off to sports with a bit more physical momentum.
soon.
Here is the number for Blog radio. I got right through. 718-508-9856.
dmac @ 112
I probably should go listen to it. The local media is still worshipping at the Shrine of St. Ted. I predict neither Ted Stevens or Don Young will be in the November 2008 election.
Actually, really enjoying listening to emptywheel on the web-radio.
kathleen @ 105
Matthews has had both Amy Goodman and Katrina on several times. Katrina has also been on the round table on Stephanapoulous.
You never know about Fox. If they are willing to have Kristol and Krauthammer on representing the far wrong…they need a counter weight. Amy and Katrina would be heavies and that would ba a strategy for Fox to get folks on the other side of the issues to watch their program.
Fresh thread, up and running for everyone. And, FYI, Jane’s being interviewed on KPFA right now…
Nequals,
Aunt Edna sends her love from the other side and reminds us that little old ladies with pointy toed shoes can have a big impact on shins. Does Speaker Pelosi have some pointy toed shoes? Hell, does Harry Reid?
I know the FDLers are busy and do so much and I thank them. Although sure would like to see Flynt Leverett come on to address the situation in Iran. Flynt was in the first Bush administration and quit just before the invasion of Iraq (he disagreed with their strategies). He is an ex CIA analyst and expert on the middle east.
Flynt Leverett would be a great guest here at FDL and the topic of Iran is critical. Since Liebermann and the other war hawk zealots are going to continue to push hard for a pre-emptive strike on Iran.
http://www.newamerica.net/pres…..new_americ
Senator Webb would also be a great guest, to discuss his latest legislation that was not passed in regard to American soldiers having one year on and one year off.
As well as Jimmy Carter to discuss his book “Palestine Peace: Not Apartheid”
dmac @ 120
He touches issues all of the time
althespook @ 116
I would say “total bullshit” except, that is what I would have said a year ago about today’s reality. Step #6 and after could have problems since the previous steps “broke” the military; except for the “nuke” military: Navy and Air Force.
Yes, when will Amy Goodman be guesting on FDL?
rich at 130 — You mean in her copious spare time? Because, you know, she doesn’t have her own show to prep and all…jeebus, it’s like you guys think we can just snap our fingers and holes appear in people’s incredibly packed schedules or something…
rich @ 130
I’ve seen Goodman’s show on cable – one of the 2nd-tier network channels – in our neck of the woods, Rich. (n.e. OH – Time-Warner, formerly Adelphia).
I don’t know how widely her show is carried, or even if she takes call-ins, but it might be worth trying to find out.
Sure. Lotsa people are busy, but ya won’t know unless ya try. eh? ;->
http://www.democracynow.org/
dakine01 @ 72
There’s a photo out there somewhere of dubya signing a flag for someone. How’s that for defacement of the flag?!
i think it important to note that stone did not write for any major newspaper. in a very real sense he was his own editor and publisher.
that allowed him to report on aspects of amerikan foreign policy that would have been spiked at the wapo, the nyt, et alia.
his “weekly” was his voice.
at some point, in the 1960’s bob silvers gave him air at the nyrb.
some years ago, some of stone’s best work in the 1950’s, 1960’s were published.
his most fascinating book was, THE HIDDEN HISTORY OF THE KOREAN WAR.
if you can find it, you will get another take on that invasion. i think it to be the more accurate history.