The events of recent weeks have freaked a lot of people out. We have President who has devolved into utter lawlessness and nobody with the power to stand up to him is doing so. Jack Balkin attempts to place it all in some context via the concept of “constitutional hardball,” and his analysis underscores the need for action:
At this point in Bush’s Presidency three things matter above all others. They motivate this final round of constitutional hardball: The first is keeping secret what the President and his advisers have done. The second is running out the clock to prevent any significant dismantling of his policies until his term ends. The third is doing whatever he can proactively to ensure that later governments do not hold him or his associates accountable for any acts of constitutional hardball or other illegalities practiced during his term in office.
If the NSA program and the Torture Memos were examples of the second round of constitutional hardball, the Libby commutation and Harriet Meiers’ refusal to testify before Congress are examples of the third round. Although his Presidency now seems to be a failure, Bush’s third round of constitutional hardball may be every bit as important as the first two. That is because if Bush is never held accountable for what he did in office, future presidents will be greatly tempted to adopt features of his practices. If they temper his innovations and his excesses only slightly, they will still seem quite admirable and restrained in comparison to Bush. As a result, if Congress and the public do not decisively reject Bush’s policies and practices, some particularly unsavory features of his Presidency will survive in future Administrations. If that happens, Bush’s previous acts of constitutional hardball will have paid off after all. He may not have created a new and lasting constitutional regime, but he will have introduced long-lasting weaknesses and elements of decay into our constitutional system.
I don’t know if this thought scares the daylights out of anybody else, but it has plagued me of late — that if nothing is done to stop Bush, if he pays no price, we’re looking at the future of the United States because there is nothing for any President to fear. And that’s a pretty bleak picture.
Dover Bitch also has a great post over at Digby’s place on the lunkheadedness of those who supported the Lieberman Amendment. If these are the people we’re relying on in the situation, we’re in a heap o’ trouble. WFT were they thinking.
(h/t Kagro X)
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yo
Not one MSM talking head had anything to say about Harriet Meiers ignoring her Congressional subpoena! What the f….k do they feel is really important?
Hi, Jane
Jane!
zed?
I’m totally with you on this, Jane. But it didn’t hit me till I saw the Moyers show this week. Then the impact was like the proverhical Mac truck. I never supported impeachment till Friday night, and now it’s pretty much all I can think about. If not now, WHEN? Impeachment would educate those who haven’t been paying attention, and it would let this president and all future president know that there is, indeed a line over which they may not cross. We have to make the demand for impeachment to both sides of the aisle because this is an American issue, not a Democrat or Republican one.
Has anyone read David Halberstam’s article in Vanity Fair? It’s called “History Boys” and David really hammers this bullshit Bush is trying to run about him being Truman. Check it out.History Boys
This point has been keeping me awake at night for quite awhile.
I want to give people the benefit of the doubt,but there also has to come a point where it’s enough already. Personally,I think we’re way past that point,and have been for more than a couple years.
The President and this administration are DARING someone to stop them,if it doesn’t happen we could lose America for real.
I believe that we need to have plans in place to communicate with one another. If the internet is shut down we need a plan b.
That is how worried I am about the evil doers in the WH.
On the Lieberman Amendment, and other attempts to go to war with Iran, there is really no solid evidence that Iran is doing what they are accused of. On the other hand, this LA Times story about Saudi’s making up 50% of foreign fighters makes a powerful argument that at least some senior officials in Iraq disagree enough to leak this story.
“The President and this administration are DARING someone to stop them,if it doesn’t happen we could lose America for real.”
That is exactly what John Dean said. Bush is not bluffing. He wants a showdown. He, Kark and Dick are ready to make their big move. They fully believe they can eclipse the legislature and we know they own the judiciary.
marymccurnin @ 9
Mary,I totally agree with this one. We need a phone tree system or something.
It’s not THAT important – but just how fast does one need to be?!
I’m just a beginner. Been away for awhile, but I did catch last nights post on why FDL is important to all. Great stuff – and keep it up.
Something is going down before September this year, I am pretty sure. They have been telegraphing it for the last two weeks. They are going to need something to change the paradigm of everything falling apart. Something real big to flip the page.
OT
How do you add the facebook icon to your fdl name?
marymccurnin @ 9
FDL MeetUps @ Poor Reds, in Eldorado, Friday nights Mary. I’m in!
I agree. If impeachment isn’t used for the worst President in our history, then it is a deadletter and future Presidents will not be held to account (unless a bl*wjob is involved).
Jane, it boggles my mind to think that this one insipid fool can undo over 200 years of American democracy. There doesn’t seem to be much doubt now that Bush has irrevocably harmed the US Constitution that is the foundation of our republic.
Who and what can fix this mess? I look but just don’t see the will in the American people to stand up and right the ship of state as it heads irrevocably to the rocks. I hope and pray that Firedoglake and Digby and Eschaton, et. al., ignite the passion it will take to right these great wrongs but I don’t believe that it will be quick, easy, or painless, which America has grown all to accustomed to expecting when it comes to putting forth any kind of effort at all. Hope remains, however dim now.
Jane, I still think that the issue that Americans can relate to is Bush hiding the Tillman papers. If Vote Vets or someone else would run a commercial on this I would certainly donate.
raven @ 15
Go to the sidebar here on the right and look for Meta. Sign in there with your username and password and then come back here and comment to see if it works. It should.
I am completely with you on this. I am deeply disturbed by the failure of any of our critical institutions (the congress, the courts, or the press) to hold this administration accountable and to check their unprecedented power grab. This is the path to dictatorship. In my darker moments I even question whether the Busheviks actually intend to leave office, ever.
newtonusr @ 16
Where? Cali?
I wrote this a few days ago at the old No Quarter:
http://noquarter.typepad.com/m…..t-75294928
It was in answer to people saying that impeachment is a waste of time, etc. What I find the most frightening is how few people on our side of the political fence “get it”. The other side I can understand, they’re bound to view such an act as political, at least at first.
We ought to know better, and quite a few of us clearly don’t.
if he pays no price, we’re looking at the future of the United States because there is nothing for any President to fear.
Obviously, I’d like to see the rule of law and the role of the Constitution restored *now*. But, if there turns out that no substantial change takes place before GWB leaves office, it could prove to be a benefit.
Given the monumentally f****d up state of the nation that Bush will inevitably leave behind, it might be useful to at least temporarily retain the strong executive powers, in order to more quickly change what is now the status quo.
This obviously makes the next presidentially election quite possibly the most important in the nation’s history. If there was a candidate who I trusted to use the excessive powers in a benign and restorative way, he/she gets my vote automatically.
But once given, power is rarely, if ever, given back. The danger is great – who do we trust, should the legislative and judicial branches fail to rein in this president, to do the things that need to be done, and then turn that power back over to the people and restore checks and balances?
SeamusD @ 10
The senior officials in Iraq are mostly Shia so yes, they would not mind seeing the role of Saudi Arabia in Iraq exposed.
I think presidential candidates will absolutely hate it if the public rises up and demands impeachment. They’ll have to actually take a stand.
Procuratio frutex delenda est.
How can attacking Iran be a good thing, ever?
bobtaco @ 14
I’ve been saying this almost forever, but all I’ve been met with is silence or the looks that accompany a crazy person speaking.
At this point in my life, after this past week, I really don’t give a rat’s ass any more.
marymccurnin @ 9
I agree.
What has me really worried is that everything, and I mean everything is in place for them to rule for..ev..er. The only thing missing is an “event” that W deems a national emergency…anything HE deems. Chertoff is a big Neocon. His gut rumblings are alarming, as is all the AQ talk and the sudden discovery of a new Bin Laden video.
Martial law would go into effect. No elections. Nada.
That is not tinfoil stuff. It is fact.
I just don’t see Cheney or the rest of his cabal leaving on their own. I just don’t see it.
In my humble opinion, allowing the independent effort to look into the events of 9/11 to become labeled as “conspiracy theory” or tinfoil material is the greatest mistake this country has ever allowed to happen.
(((Jane))) Interestingly, Jack Balkin brings up the very same concerns as Nichols did on Moyers and Fein pointed to other similar aspects as to why we need to Act Now!!! It needs to be a twofer, and, it needs to be carried out until that circle is closed! Not like the Ford pardon that spawned many of the vile cast of characters involved in today’s constitutional travesty!!!
raven @ 15
To the right of post #14, sign in to Meta and once signed in, go to the top of the page and click on fdl.
ccmask @ 32
thx
marymccurnin @ 22
About 30 minutes east of your location. Landmark spot.
Why hasn’t Leahy or Waxman subpoenaed Fitzgerald?
Unless these folks are as really as shortsighted as I suspect they might be, and/or we are really close to a dictatorship, don’t these folks realize that pendulums do swing, and eventually they are handing this power to a Democratic President?
I thought conservatives were buildt on the premise of conserving.
Jane I am with you. I am getting more and more uneasy.
A three-part constitutional balance was a very smart design. Our system depends upon it.
Making Moyers program go viral is a step towards getting the word out.
I agree, and it would take a President of immense wisdom and humility to actively roll back what Bush has pushed. I think it’s safe to say none of the GOP
frontrunnerscandidates would do so; I have no idea about the Dems, but perhaps it’s a question worth asking.The only thing that will help if a Dem is in office is that the GOP will remember how good congressional oversight is, and I don’t think the Dems will be the lap poodles that the Republicans have been with Bush. But I’ve been wrong before…
Hugh @ 25
It’s not just Iraqi’s. From the article in the LA Times;
About 45% of all foreign militants targeting U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians and security forces are from Saudi Arabia; 15% are from Syria and Lebanon; and 10% are from North Africa, according to official U.S. military figures made available to The Times by the senior officer. Nearly half of the 135 foreigners in U.S. detention facilities in Iraq are Saudis, he said.
newtonusr @ 34
I’ll facebook you.
There are only a few things we can do.
March…doesn’t work well or last very long.
Write…Maybe in coordinated campaigns…like the idea of sending Moyers en masse
Vote…way too far off
What else as we look to keep what is left of our country?
Sicko is an amazing tool Just got back from seeing it in Asheville NC. The audience clapped and cheered. It is all the way amazing.
It all comes back to Bush. That’s the bottom line. And I don’t give a ‘drug-store cowboy’ how long, or how much money it takes, to lay the blame properly where it belongs. At the feet of George W. Bush. We can’t do anything about Mr. Bush’s past behavior. But we can make a statement on our feelings about this man’s character. And for perhaps the first time in his miserable life, force responsibility upon him. Investigations of the Bush Administration must continue long after this individual has faded from the scene. If for no other reason than to assure this nation that never again will a member of the Bush political dynasty be entrusted with this country’s highest office. In this we will have done a service to the world.
Mutant Poodle @ 37
I’m not sure I trust all the D candidates, one or too establishment.
Loo Hoo. @ 35
Fitz needs DoJ approval to testify about the GJ testimony etc…! There is only a small avenue of approach for Leahey or Waxman to operate within, however, I believe the Impeachment process could free up many of the constraints on Fitz’s testimony!!! 8-)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 41
I think it’s far bigger than that one man. It’s the Constitution, it’s the county, it’s democracy, it’s everything we hold most dear.
Maybe the candidates don’t push impeachment because they’re afraid that if Pelosi were president, she’s be re-elected. That’s not the way things are supposed to work.
;-O
http://www.mutualofamerica.com/
MUTUAL OF AMERICA LIFE INSURANCE COMPANY
320 PARK AVENUE
NEW YORK, NY 10022
1-800-468-3785
above please find the contact info for the benefactor of the wonderful BILL MOYERS . . .
show them some love Fire pups????
Do you think Pelosi has a complete set of articles of impeachment documents waiting for just the right moment, hidden in a paper bag, under her desk???
i heart jane @ 47
Isn’t it Ironic how they’re the only corporate sponsor???
As to backup Comm systems shortwave is not a bad option, now with no code options (thats morse code which is a fine way to communicate in low power environments), but stepping back from tinfoil hat territory, any system must make sure that the message remains intact during transmission, songs are great for that.
Liberal Heart @ 44
He’s just the point man, there is an entire infrastructure behind him. Read Halberstam’s article that I posted above where he talks about the extreme right wingers during the Korean War. This stuff is nasty but it ain’t nothin new.
LS @ 45
I sure hope so
“I think it’s far bigger than that one man. It’s the Constitution, it’s the county, it’s democracy, it’s everything we hold most dear.”
The impression in this house is that the President is supposed to represent the Constitution, the country and Democracy. ;0)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 52
Yea, and it’s supposed to be the land of the free and the home of the brave too.
raven @ 50
Similarly, Ike warned us of the Defense/Industrial Complex’s dubious impact on our Government in his infamous Farewell Speech!!!
raven @ 50
I have wondered for a long time how many people are we talking about. How many people does it take to hold a country hostage?
Blackwater is a huge concern.
Heres a little thing I found from 1947, I wonder where we fit in these metrics? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eGkx9cFALo
the reason I don’t comment here much anymore, or on any of my fav political blogs, is I simply don’t know what to say, I just don’t have any words
what do you say when you’re stuck in a car with a suicidal drunk driver that nothing is stopping?
Consider these comments from a right-winger on the Balkin blog, after Balkin’s essay on constitutional hardball:
That’s worth thinking about.
And then, another comment gives a lovely link to this little essay: Ship of fools: Johann Hari sets sail with America’s swashbuckling neocons (from The Independent, London).
It can be interesting to read what those folks are thinking, or at least saying. And the portrait of the scene is precise:
Has anyone thought yet about how to get the Republicans on board with Impeachment of Cheney/Bush?
I think people should remind the GOP that if nothing is done to stop the Bush Administration now, HILLARY CLINTON!!! will have UNBRIDLED POWER!!! to do whatever she wants in the next election cycle.
shorter version: BOO!
That’ll do it.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 52
That’s sooo 1990’s. Didn’t you hear the President tell us that everything changed on 9/11?
Elliott @ 51
That is what I have been thinking for weeks. Did you watch that hilarious video of “Granny” from the Beverly Hillbillies that I posted…Granny in the kitchen?
Sharkbabe @ 58
(((((((((((((((((((((sharkbabe)))))))))))))))))))))
LS @ 45
Ah, well she did say that we don’t know the half of it, so she must. Mustn’t she?
Sharkbabe @ 56
Yes. Many times I have started to type and just said “How many different ways can this be said?” or “Help! I cannot take this any longer.” or “F**k it. I going to see if there is anymore chocolate in the freezer.”
The way in which we send a message (hopefully) to all presidents coming after this president is to hold Mr. Bush accountable. In this endeavor we will have a done a precious, and perhaps a life saving thing for generations to come.
marymccurnin @ 54
Blackwater, DynCorp, Titan, and CACI will play the same role in this country that OMON, the Interior Ministry contract troops in Russia, played in Chechnya when the time comes.
And the time will come, it isn’t if, it’s when.
argosfalcon @ 55
I have that Encyclopedia Britainnica article embedded on my Harddrive! It is a very sobering critique of Democracy, it may be dated, yet, the metrics are extremely pertinent today!!!
. . . and if Congress won’t stand up to someone as evil as cheney/bush, who WILL they stand up to?
raven @ 33
I had not registered, I did so but I’m not getting a confirmation email. Does this take a while?
LS @ 61
no, and how could I have missed it?
The sickest thing about the Lieberman Amendment is that it is driving me into supporting Ralph Nader for president in 2008
Pelosi and Reid need to realize the importance of doing their fucking job. I’m starting to feel they can’t even manage a fucking McDonalds without failing because they sat on their hands instead of DOING THEIR JOB.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 65
maybe it’s time to take it to the streets.
Liberal Heart @ 60
Yes I heard that. I suppose I’m just old-fashioned. ;0)
raven @ 71
Not too long! You need to look in your gmail account!
OT: marymccurnin: Have you thought about pet recipe publishing lately? I think there is a market; here, even. Just a thought. (Sorry for the intrusion.)
Back on topic, perhaps because this is a legal and Constitutional crisis, a majority of good people are getting that much is wrong, but the whole picture, available here and at other sites and certainly at PBS/Bill Moyers, is not really sinking in? Again, just a thought.
Elliott @ 72
;0)
mhpcr @ 75
Email me at marymccurnin at mac dot com.
Sharkbabe @ 56
Hey Sharkbabe, haven’t seen you around in a while. Guess that’s why.
Anyway, what you say is – “If you don’t stop, I guarantee you that you’ll be in so much pain that you’ll want to die”. There’s always something that someone’s afraid of. In Bush’s case, I suppose it’s the idea that he’ll be viewed as one of history’s worst Presidents. Being impeached would certainly add to that impression. Right now, he has nothing to fear, because impeachment’s “off the table”. It’s too hard to do, so we won’t try.
I can’t believe I’m writing things like this, but we really are in a fight for our country here. And by “we” I don’t mean “Democrats” or “liberals”, I mean all of us. I’m just astounded that so many of our own people don’t seem to realize that.
Bush and co. know that their is not enough votes in the
Senate to vote to remove if the House voted for Impeachment.
Until that equation changes he’ll ignore Congress. As I see it
Congress has to act boldly now to establish itself as a co-equal
branch of Government. Let’s forget right now about removal from’
office.. First of all if Miers does not respond to the summons and the Justice Dept. does not enforce it, then the Capital Police under authority of Congress go and arrest her. There does not seem to
be enough political momentum from the majority of the American
people to demand Impeachment. Also the Democrats in Congress
just don’t have the right stuff to lead an effective opposition.
(exceptions for Webb, Leahy, Feingold, Kucinch and Waxman)
How come.? Perhaps the majority of the American people have
traded their civil rights, constitutional government, a functioning
Federal government for a false sense of security from terrorism
and the fear of the changes in this country and the world
at large. A majority of Americans are living a delusional life Bush is ruling this country by instilling fear into the daily life of the people. He has created a functioning police state. Damn close to a Dictatorship.
I am not sure where the end of the tunnel is? There is a long time
to go before November 08 and lot of bad things can happen.
Firstly, realize there are many, from all over
the place, reading blogs such as this. And glad to be doing so. The rest of the world is frightened, and rightly so. The greatest economic and military power on the planet. How does one deal with that? Especially when the
leadership is sometimes called ‘crazy’, and no
branch of your Government seems willing to stand up and challenge. There are many billions of us out here, outside your boarders. How the hell
would we invade and make you toe the sensible line?
It is your chance to set an example. As to how,
is up to you. But you’ve got a few billion in support.
99.9% of people would NOT steal the food from
a neibours table. But it’s happening, and worse.
Nuff said
I think it’s time to fudge the data a little.. When asked polling info or to donate to Barak or Hillary, even Edwards (say no for now).. lie to the pollsters online or otherwise.. say Dodd or Kucinich or Bozo.. but we cannot let the DLC consultants ignore us or think our anger is the best thing for their candidates in the long run. (not the country)
I don’t want a Dem in Iraq, ignoring FISA, rigging elections, or shuffling Justice for political gain, anymore than I want Bushco doing it.
Cujo359 @ 78
yeah, it isn’t rhetoric, it’s flat out fact.
[my bold]
(((((sharkbabe)))))
Elliot, thanks for the link at 51. Excellent!
CTuttle @ 74
Even if I registered with my hotmail?
hey jane – great job on the radio today…. now here you’re preaching to the choir – i think we’re all so disillusioned with the poor job the dems are doing – every day in every way bushco goes about dismantling the democracy and dems say – IMPEACHMENT IS OFF THE TABLE _ W T F????????
And it seems to me that the Democrats when they do rarely confront the Republican lies, as Jim Webb did this morning, are trying to do so with one hand voluntarily tied behind their backs. Because the Democrats won’t call the lies “lies” and they can’t quite bring themselves to tell America the whole truth about our presence in Iraq – which would stun the likes of Lindsey Graham if ever said to his face, or on the Senate floor. [Thers listed three of the truths today, regarding what the residents of that “sovereign” nation of Iraq want, which is to get the occupiers out, damn any theoretical consequences that will follow.]
This ‘code of acceptable lying’ that all politicians in Washington seem to live with and accept is a big part of our problem. The Democrats are trying to rebut the Republicans (and the media) with half-truths, so the full lies retain a lot of strength. Harry Reid has actually started to fight back with a little truth – that the Iraqi people want us out. But he won’t acknowledge yet that what Iraqis want for their country should take precedence over what America wants for Iraq, which would implicitly call out the racist paternalistic imperialist types like Lieberman and their specious America and Israel Rule The World and Ought To mentality.
The fact is, 1973’s War Powers Resolution has us in a seeming fix. We entered this “war” via legislation (2002’s AUMF) in accordance with the WPR, and Congress thereby voluntarily strangled its ability via its inherent Clause 11 war powers to unilaterally end a war by majority vote without need for a presidential signature or veto override. Because to repeal the AUMF legislation or pass new legislation regarding Iraq (a Congressional Article I power given via a clause of Section 8 other than Clause 11) obviously requires a presidential signature or veto override.
Somebody failed drastically in the imagination department when they decided to include a provision for authorizing force via legislation in 1973’s WPR. The wisdom of our Founders regarding the imperative that the people alone retain the right to decide matters of war and peace, was spurned. War must be at least as easy to get out of, as to get into. Today, we are facing the exact opposite balance of power, if Congress insists on succeeding at overriding a presidential veto before extracting our forces from Iraq.
I suggest, however, that since the actual, “specific statutory authorization” (2002’s AUMF) to wage this conflict in Iraq was arguably “Mission Accomplished” years ago now, and has since and obviously become and been shown to be moot, that there is a clear argument to be made that “United States Armed Forces are engaged in hostilities outside the territory of the United States, its possessions and territories without a declaration of war or specific statutory authorization.” [Noting, however, that if bad faith parsing were to be employed, such authorization could probably be alleged to exist in every funding bill for Iraq that has passed.]
And if the mission outlined in the 2002 AUMF is in fact “accomplished”:
then powers retained by Congress in the War Powers Resolution itself can kick in, without the need to assert straight Constitutional Clause 11 Congressional powers to undeclare the war. The pertinent [Title 50, Chapter 33, Section 1544(c)] power in the WPR is:
A concurrent resolution is a resolution passed and in force after approval by only the Legislative Branch – no presidential signature involved. If Congress truly wanted this conflict in Iraq to end, they should be throwing every tool at their disposal at it. In this case, it would be the provisions of the War Powers Resolution, and any subsequent showdown about it in court. Vote to direct Bush to bring the troops home, and let the chips fall where they may.
Http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..v=hcmodule
Loo Hoo. @ 84
I’ve just got my heart set on that scenario, Loo Hoo.
Well BushCo has finished with FISA which is up coming it will all be nice a legal to spy on everyone all the time. And with FOIA requests taking years to process, discovery of malfeasance is unlikely. But there maybe well placed patriots that may come to the fore.
I’ve missed reading you, Sharkbabe; I’ve seen you sometimes on Watertiger’s place. You always offer a unique perspective, and it’s good to see you now.
Sharkbabe…
Gladda to see you. I’m such a lonely fiery radical in these parts these days without your voice. ;0)!
I read two competing stories about Facebook today, and I’m still on the fence. One spoke to the privacy provisions and the other spoke to the problems with the privacy provisions in terms of blackmail.
What to do?
But I agree that contingency communication plans should be drawn up before the “national emergency” is declared.
raven @ 85
I had to create a gmail, I couldn’t use my msn account!
raven @ 85
I registered and got no confirmation email. I selected “lost password” and got an email but I never had a password so I still can’t get in.
CTuttle @ 93
aha, tanks
raven @ 95
De Nada! I wish ya luck!
[If Bush] pays no price, we’re looking at the future of the United States because there is nothing for any President to fear.
Memo to Wing Nuts and all Republicans — if Bush is Not Impeached, Hillary Clinton will take over the Bush Imperial Presidency and run with it.
Now, how do you feel about Impeaching Bush?
You’d think that having a whole list of violations of the law would make it easier to gain support for impeachment, but for those playing catch-up, the questions become “Okay, but what’s the tipping point? Why were items 1-7 okay up till now? Why impeach NOW?”
I think people tend to need a single, crystal-clear reason to say enough is enough. Say, for example, it were to be discovered tomorrow that the Niger forgeries were produced by this WH. Would that kind of thing finally make people take to the streets?
Right now we have a number of impeachable acts that Bush supporters will cast as being in the interests of homeland security. Debate about whether the acts were “necessary” in a post 9/11 world will be the shiny object that distracts us from the business at hand: saving the country. In fact, if we had just one violation AND people willing to stand up and say NO, our task would be far easier.
Why does a dog lick his balls?
Because he can.
Why does DarthBush flout the Constitution?
Because they can.
Unless We the People stop them.
This is serious hardball and the democratic controlled congress doesn’t get it.
We need to keep reminding them that this thuggery by the administration cannot be allowed to stand and they better do something about it NOW.
INHERENT CONTEMPT is not just a mechanism for congressional enforcement-it should be a mantra for what these criminals are doing to our country.
Failure to honor Congressional subpeonas is also an impeachable offense. Now I realize that the votes aren’t there to mount a successful impeachment but there are few remaining mechanisms left for Congress to get the attention of DarthBush.
Oh, and the filibusters? Make the bastards support every damn one of them with midnight readings of Harry Potter. C’mon Harry-would you please grow a pair and smack these jerkj in the mouth?
Trust me, the Independent article on a National Review cruise that I linked is priceless. Another tidbit:
And just one more:
Well crap, since I used raven on the hotmail I couldn’t use it again. What a pain in the ass.
OK Jane. This has me scared as well.
Yeah, I’m scared. For anyone who can read or listen to the news with some iota of critical comprehension, the last six months or so has a long, continuous series of crises. I lived abroad for a long while and I can honestly say that, my patriotism aside, I can no longer differentiate between the methods being used by our own executive branch to consolidate and maintain power and those used by any others this side of the axis of evil.
My feeling is that what is needed now is a combination of different actions, on the part of Congress, to send a signal.. (A) impeach Gonzales, or at least get an impeachment investigation underway.. if we can’t do this, we’re hopeless, (B) why can’t we consider a no-confidence vote against the entire presidency?, (C) subpoena all of the principle culprits and when they refuse to show, prosecute them for contempt.. force shrub to pardon all of them, (D) investigate the heck out of the RNC.. they can’t possibly be covered by executive privilege, can they?, (E) defund the secret service… just for fun. And grassroots activists need to get their act together and hit the streets… above all, I think we need to to make shrub the issue.. not just the war, not any specific scandal, but shrub’s abuse of his office itself.
Sharkbabe, your voice here is missed. Do what you have to do and this place awaits your return.
Bluetoe @ 2
Late to this thread but to answer the question posed: the flavor of their cocktail weenies of course…
Prof @ 58
The statement is based on a fallacy. Bush is not exercising “traditional foreign policy powers” but is using a singular and corrupt interpretation of his Presidential powers to make vast power grabs across the board both domestically and in foreign affairs, amounting to the creation of a Presidential dictatorship.
Something tells me that Republicans will be caterwauling plenty as they do whenever a Democrat is in office. They will claim Executive overreach then as they are currently doing now that the Congress is exercising some oversight. And, of course, as Bosnia, Kosovo, and Somalia have shown they are willing to “micromanage” foreign policy when the President is a Democrat. I don’t see that changing.
The commenter is also incorrect that the left blogosphere is just going to ignore and sign off on any President’s claim (Democrat or Republican) to wage wars of choice and then use those wars to make extravagant and unwarranted invasions of our civil rights and liberties.
Bush’s excesses are not a license to anyone to repeat his crimes. To see that this doesn’t happen is why accountability in the form of impeachment is so necessary.
As was pointed out on Bill Moyers though, to make impeachment happen we need politicians to rise above politics and act as statesmen/women. So far we have only the politicians engaged in business as usual.
Prof @ 100
So on this cruise will rush be speaking in the Attila the Hun conference room?
cancer_cures @ 70
Then why vote..
raven1 @ 101
but raven, can’t you keep raven for your Wordpress login? ET was having this trouble and he got it straightened out.
LS @ 47
If she does, WTF is she waiting for?????
Liberal Heart @ 98 – The Libby commutation is just such a ’single, crystal-clear reason’ for me. That ‘concentrated by mind’ wonderfully with regard to impeachment.
And the follow-up reality that, once an impeachment inquiry regarding the Plame betrayal is commenced by the House Judiciary Committee, all of Special Counsel Fitzgerald’s now-secret grand jury material would be available to the House really seals the deal for me. Congress has a meticulous investigation to adopt as their own and to build upon with their own hearings, ready-made for the asking of one judge. It would be sheer folly for them to ignore such a work product that targets the very individuals at the top of our Executive Branch who conspired to expose one of their own nation’s covert WMD spies.
TexB @ 102
Don’t worry. ClusterBuSh and co. will have the same success with this as all the rest of their endeavors. Pelosi has no better sense than to let them run out the clock, yet they are hell bent on forcing their own ouster.
Eureka Springs @ 81
Good idea. Let’s send those envelopes from the DNC, DNCC, and candidates back with a letter saying to look us up once impeachment proceedings have begun.
pow wow @ 87
The concurrent resolution is also known as the legislative veto and it was declared unconstitutional by the Berger Court in INS v Chadha in 1983.
Well if bush could not run a war, could not plan for or help a city recover from a natural disaster ,how bad could a bush dictatorship be. Wait no, please god no.
It seems to me the only way that we are going to get some real action in the senate, is to have a change of leadership, if the senate was a huge company and Harry Reid was the CEO he would have been gone a long time ago. He is not the man for this time, his time has come and gone.
Sam @ 79
IIRC only about a quarter of the electorate backed impeachment of Richard Nixon at the beginning of the Watergate hearings. The percentage who favor impeachment of Bush is actually much higher now before anyone has said anything about similar hearings.
pow wow @ 111
Total agreement here, Pow Wow. But all that prattle about no underlying crime diluted the moment for us. And then there was the “elegant compromise” crap. We need an issue on which there is no way out but the truth — one that does not allow for a benign interpretation (which is why I used the example of discovering the Niger documents were WH forgeries; I don’t see how anyone could come up with an excuse for why it would have been okay to create them).
This is much bigger than one man, or even one Administration. Moneyed interests had the run of the country until the New Deal. Only continued expansion and government land grants created any semblance of a middle class – a middle class beaten down by the Industrial Revolution.
The New Deal made a middle class in an industrial economy possible. The GI Bill put the little people in the classroom, the VA Bill put them in their own homes and unions gave them clout at the bargaining table. Moneyed interests never forgave FDR. They have busily planned a “Back to the Future” (circa 1890) ever since, and this is the real reason they despised Clinton so – he created jobs, rising middle class wealth and a budget surplus.
The greedheads are sooo close to their goal! They will not yield. We must cowboy up and retake our country.
How so? Stand on the Constitution. Every time a gooper/media whore/corporatist questions a Democrat, we must ground our answer in the Constitution.
Why should Congress inject themselves into the war in Iraq? Article 1:8
” To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;”
Why should Congress regulate corporations? Article 1:8
“To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states…”
Shove ‘original intent’ up their ass!
I live in a red state and I can tell you – this tactic will win!
Here’s some extra credit reading.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www…..c/p02.html
Note the only time median income backs up is when a Republican sits in the White House – Nixon, Reagan, the Boy King.
The slow coup d’etat (an oxymoron) we are watching unfold has been in R&D for more than 40 years. The group tasked to subvert the Federal Judiciary is proudly celebrating it’s 25th year this year. Justice Alito may be the final piece in their plan. It now looks like Justice Kennedy is no longer the 1 in a 4-1-4 court and is now in the 5-4 court. With events of the past several weeks it looks like Roberts has passed the word to his old buddy Fred Fielding that the SCOTUS is with the WH.
I think the Dem leadership is afraid to force a confrontation in the courts because of the likely result. I think they should; we really need to know know how bad it is.
zeitgeist the movie
the power of nightmares(banned from the usa)
google them
watch them
share them
the end is near butchie- john from cincinnati
dlcer’s are involved with this. face the facts our house is dirty. you can’t clean someone else’s house until you clean your own. the karmic wheel won’t allow it.
Liberal Heart @ 118
What we need is a press corps and electronic media that hasn’t been thoroughly infiltrated with disinformation specialists from the CIA and other agencies, including NPR. What we need is some legislation that unconsolidates the media conglomerates that now resemble amoebae.
Instead of us having to worry about net neutrality, the govt and it media hacks should be worried that the Dems are going to reintroduce the Fairness Doctrine. But have no fear, there’s no support for that either in the upper echelons of the Democratic Party.
Ship of Fools, all of them.
Hugh @ 117
One of the things that will result from impeachment hearings, should they ever occur, is that much of the public will become familiar with these issues for the first time. Until now, the news agencies in this country have largely ignored the FISA violations, and the real reasons for the Libby trial. If there are hearings, those issues can be brought up in a forum that isn’t completely filtered by the press.
In short, I expect this would go as the Nixon impeachment went before and during the Watergate hearings, with more people in favor as time goes on.
I offered this to all of congressional democrats, but perhaps I need to mail it Ms. Pelosi.
here’s the bill moyers link… sorry if it’s a repeat
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..ofile.html
I’m completely sympathetic to the argument here and support impeachment, yesterday already. However, a few salient points need to be made.
First of all the unrestrained national security powers of the executive date back at least to the Eisenhower administration. Congress has acquiesced for example in the President’s power to launch a nuclear war without Congressional approval, and to engage in various immediate military responses without a declaration of war from Congress. This didn’t start with Bush. It has been the reality for the entire second half of the twentieth century, Democrats and Republicans, united in a big Washington centered authoritarian cult that worships at the altar of Presidential power.
True, Cheney/Bush have pushed the war authority into more areas, and cleverly. Cheney/Bush understand that there is no logical limit to the President’s war time authority, and that Congress, once it surrendered to the executive the power to engage in any war like acts, even defensive ones, had surrendered everything. Indeed, once it funded a permanent standing army in the post war period, Congress effectively ceded control over the use of force to the executive. It was not without reason that Eisenhower warned of the military industrial complex, and that standing armies have long been viewed as the enemies of democracy. Getting annoyed with Bush’s use of the power that is inherent in presiding over the massive military complex is, in a real sense, getting worked up about 50 years too late. Much of what Bush is doing is not new, and what is new has always been available to a clever and ambitious fascist… such as the two we have “elected.”
Second, the congressional Democrats are pusillanimous knaves. They will not impeach and they will not limit the power of the President because they believe their own propaganda about this being a democracy in which people play by the rules. They have not grasped the bare knuckled struggle for power that the Republicans are now engaged in. So here’s the paradox that I’ve come to believe in. Our only (constitutional) hope is to elect a Democratic President and a Republican Congress that will seek (for the most partisan of motives) to deny the Democratic President the powers claimed by Bush, and in so doing create the precedents that future Democratic Congresses need to constrain Republican Presidents. Sounds too complex, doesn’t it? But the Democrats simply will not attempt to constrain either a Republican or a Democratic President or the Presidency itself, because they still think we’re operating in the nice world of unlimited Presidential war authority, limited by Presidents of good conscience. These Democrats don’t view politics or war as a form of warfare. But as John Dean, who should know, said, we are now dealing with Conservatives Without Conscience. The Republicans view both politics and war as warfare. You can count on them to resist a Democratic presidency with every means at their disposal. They will pass constitutional amendments. They will pack courts. And they will impeach. And as they do so, maybe Democrats will learn by watching them how to play hard ball, and be reminded of the tools that we need to fight contemporary American fascism and the authoritarian Presidency.
In the end, the only hope (don’t hold your breath) for America to avoid corporate fascism and authoritarian dictatorship is to defang the authoritarian potential of the Presidency and move toward effectively a Parliamentary form of government… in which the power of impeachment is used more or less as a vote of no-confidence, a routine measure to check an executive who strays even slightly from the directives of the Speaker of the House. The activities of all Cabinet Secretaries should be fully monitored in every detail by relevant House committees. All assertions of executive privilege should be constitutionally denied. Congress needs to take over and lay down the law. But authoritarian wanna be’s that they are, Congress critters prefer to give power to the Presidency and dream that some day, somehow, it will be one of them who is King. It’s reprehensible, but there you have it.
Oh that and get military spending down to a level where the U.S. government is not a wholly owned subsidiary of the war industries, which of course support unlimited Presidential war authority for obvious reasons.
Is there a specific reason I am in moderator limbo?
Mod note: Do a page refresh.
yes. freaked out = me.
1) even more important than putting limits on president bush is putting limits on the presidency.
2) the occupations of iraq and afghanistan are not going well, and it looks like they are in danger of expanding (iran, pakistan).
3) under no circumstances do i want to see an attack on iran. even if they are arming a faction of iraqis.
congress has made no actual progress in administrative oversight, ending the occupation of iraq or preventing a widening war in the ME.
in fact BOTH houses of congress have acted irresponsibly wrt to iran. last week there was the lieberman amendment (s.a.2073) but a few weeks before that there was h.con.r.21
WTF is going on with the dems in congress?
Prof,
Thanks for the link to that hilarious Johann Hari article. If I go on the National Review Everyone in the World but Us in Evil Cruise, remind me to bring lotsa ’shrooms….
Liberal Heart @ 118
The trouble with this argument is that I can’t conceive of an issue that can’t be obfuscated by people lying about it on news shows and getting away with it. That’s what happened during Plamegate. Those folks either knew perfectly well what they were saying wasn’t true or they were willfully ignorant, which when you’re on TV posing as an expert on something amounts to lying, IMHO.
Miles @ 125
Sadly, you may be right here. It’s pretty clear that the Democrats are motivated to stay useless on this issue.
TexB @ 123
You’re so thoughtful.
pow wow @ 111
Oh, but can Nancy get someone else on that committee, or is it locked?
bobtaco @ 14
My gut feeling exactly, while not wanting for anyone to get even more paralyzed by the fear rhethoric.
pow wow @ 87 – brilliant as usual.
i really like the idea of telling the whole truth. thing is, it would take a lot of polticians doing it all at once. when only one or two do it, they get marginalized.
and sadly, i don’t think most of our congress people actually have a clue what the truth is.
Cujo359 @ 131
That is a bit beyond silly. What we need is a Democratic president who knows that the netroots, the BLUE netroots helped elect him or her, and we need a strong majority in the U.S. House, brought in by people like us, who want to help solve some real problems after almost 30 years of total gridlock. We need to get our politicians out of the grips of the corporate machine. Only then can real progress return to America.
miles #125,
Somehow I do not equate nuclear annihilation with either Iraq or the “war” on terror. I think that such an equation is exactly what Bush and Cheney want so that they can use it as an excuse for their massive and illegal grabs for power. So I don’t agree with hearkening back to Eisenhower. There is no existential threat here. A twenty minute window in which to retaliate in a 50s style nuclear conflict has nothing to do with the slow motion unfolding of the quagmire that is Iraq or the amorphous but limited threat of terrorism.
As to your second point, impeachment has to begin somewhere, and the blogs are as good a place as any. If we don’t raise it and keep it in the forefront, politicians will have little incentive to do so.
james @ 114 – That 1983 case revolved around the vote of only one-half of Congress – the House – and was determined to be in effect an unConstitutional ‘legislative act’ not otherwise authorized. But concurrent resolutions are definitely still passed in Congress for various purposes, and in the scenario I suggest would be asserted (on a bicameral basis) in accordance with both a specific WPR statutory provision for such a concurrent resolution and, at least by inference, upon underlying Constitutional Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 war powers vested solely in the Legislative Branch (upon which the WPR itself is based in part); war powers which – even if the 1973 War Powers Resolution provision was found to be unConstitutionally binding on Congress, or considered an attempt at an unConstitutional ‘legislative veto’ of the 2002 AUMF, by the Supreme Court – would still remain (else our Constitution would be turned on its head).
The thing that “freaks me out” now is why is the WH acting so confident and pushing hard to extend and legalize the “Unitary Exec” when the common wisdom indicates loosing the Presidency in ‘09.
Things are really fucked up when last weeks paranoid ideation becomes this weeks headline.
Does anyone have a link to the story about the exec order changing the policy and procedures for declaring martial law and moving all emergency functions to the WH? I think it was about six months ago.
Cujo359 @ 131
I don’t believe that this will happen, period. Today’s Republican Party is all about power. They realize where that power must reside, in the Executive and will do nothing to curtail it. What they will do, if they are the majority, is what they always do to a Dem minority, pound the crap out of them, obstruct every issue that Dems try to move on, and their pet MSM while blame the Dems, as usual.
Cujo359 @ 130
Then we need to hook everyone up to polygraphs as they’re doing commentary.
Since Friday I’ve been trying to think of something, anything, I can do to help move Congress off the dime. I sent emails, of course, but I doubt anyone really reads them. And when I emailed those who do not represent my state, I got back some auto-replies that pretty much said pound sand if you don’t live here. I feel so impotent.
I’ve also been thinking about who, in Congress, would be the ideal person to carry the torch on impeachment. I think Marcy Kaptur would be good. No scandals, not one to put her face in front of a camera at every opportunity, someone who operates from a core of ethics and honesty, one who’s sincere and respectful and thoughtful. I’ve written to her about speaking out, but now I’m thinking of asking her to take the lead.
The way to win in Iraq is to pull out. Support our soldiers! Bring them home.
Ed*ard Teller @ 136
But then Teller was quite the right winger wasn’t he now? ;-)
Your faith in the Democrats is admirable. Over on Kos someone recently called Pelosi a genius for laying the grounds for impeachment by “taking impeachment off the table.” Is that silly too? If she does impeach and convict, it will prove to have been brilliant… if not, it will suggest that when she says it is off the table she really means it. I tend to take her at her word…
As I said, your faith in the Democrats is touching. Oh to be young again.
Loo Hoo @ 132: What do you mean, ‘locked’? [I think Nancy Pelosi could definitely change membership of the Judiciary Committee around a bit if she felt like playing hardball - but I rather doubt she’s so inclined.]
Hugh @ 137
The launch on warning authority is just one small part of the vast authority that Congress has regularly granted to the President to act using war powers and war-like powers.
I’m all for calling for impeachment. I do so regularly myself. I believe that such calls will not have any effect at all. I would do just as well to pound my head against a brick wall, because the Democrats just don’t get it.
Miles @ 143
I’ve only been a Democrat for two months and ten days, and already the state Dem HQ has gone back on their word on a volunteer project I was doing to help corner Don Young. I’m going to stay away from the machines as much as possible, and work for progressive candidates who listen to the people. Like Diane Benson, for instance.
Why not invite Nancy Pelosi to participate in a national blog
conversation here at Firedoglake. Let her hear and respond to
conscience of this nation that the community here represents.
SeamusD @ 140
That’s the reason it might actually work (I’m not in favor of this solution, mind you, but I’m speculating). The only way that the two branches will be motivated to keep each other in check is if they need to compete for power. The Democrats in Congress clearly don’t have this drive. The Republicans did, and they sure didn’t need much of an excuse. As badly as it worked, even with some of the worst people running Congress that I’ve seen in a generation, the system still worked – Clinton wasn’t found guilty, because there just wasn’t enough misbehavior there to merit it.
Don’t forget, the Constitution was designed in such a way that the three branches would compete with each other for power. Continued obeisance by any branch toward one of the others is the worst situation. That’s precisely what we have now. Given the choice, I’ll take open hostility. It works better.
So, Edward Teller, in answer to your comment, it may be beyond silly, but that’s how it works.
LS @ 30
I don’t think so. I think Bush will be ejected from the WH one way or another by 1/20/2009. The hard 26 percenters may be the last ones to the party, but even they won’t stand for such an obvious move, and I have a feeling they’re well armed.
So Bush will be stepping down on 1/20/2009, even if how he does so is up for debate.
miles #144,
Asserting that Presidents have made such broad claims of power (which it is not clear that they did) going back to Eisenhower distracts from the fact that under much less threatening conditions Bush and Cheney have made much vaster claims of authority and have, in fact, acted upon those claims.
Exactly, Jane! And you can bet the Rethugs are determined that they shall be the ones elected to further the tactics/policies of BushCo.
Republicans’ campaign theme for ‘08 will be “do-nothing Dems”;
should be: Republicans = Corruption R Us.
newtonusr @ 34
I’m in Sacto. Is this all Fridays, or coming up, or when?
Breaking:
Signs have been found of Attenborough’s long-beaked echidna in the Cyclops Mountains.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci…..897977.stm
No reports yet if they have one or two eyes. *g*
Bluetoe @ 2
Pole-dancing white mother of three, twice-divorced, missing in Colorado.
[Sorry if this is redundant, I’m playin’ catch-up tonight. MSNBC should be sorry that they wasted the terrific David Schuster Friday on this crap.
But then MSNBC’s idea of Meet the “Press” is a self-indulgent white aging male circlejerk book logroll, so why should I be surprised….]
Hugh @ 150
What I meant to claim was somewhat the opposite… that Congressional action has ceded vast realms of power that some Presidents have been remarkably self constrained in using.
Bush Cheney are simply acting on the latent potentialities created by our half century long funding of the war industries, and by 50 year old ceding of power beginning in the aftermath of WWII, and the relaxed oversight that Congress has allowed since then.
scary? as in Karl Rove as our next President?
OMG!
.
could happen with the support of the corrupt Diebold electronic voting system…
I think the most likely explanation for inaction by the House Dems is, they don’t have the votes. I think Pelosi has done the counts and the vote aren’t there. If they couldn’t get a contempt citation out of the House, it’s game over.
I would be interesting to predict the voting probability of the House Dems for a contempt citation. Howie Klein could do it and it would be pretty accurate.
Steve-AR @ 139
Was this the link you were thinking of?
http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=2169
Hugh @ 153
Way to hang in there, Beaky!
It is indisputable though, isn’t it, that members of the Republican Party and officials in our Executive Branch of government betrayed and exposed an undercover WMD spy working for our nation, regardless of whether any specific crime can be prosecuted or proven in connection with that betrayal?
That’s an impeachable “high crime and misdemeanor” (if not treason) under any interpretation of that phrase (if an impeachment investigation can show a particular person or persons in our government recklessly engaged in the exposure of Plame to the public). We even have President Bush basically acknowledging that fact in recent weeks: the leak came from his administration. We have to assert standards for our Executive Branch officials. Just as legal “obstruction of justice” shouldn’t be the highest standard of conduct expected of those like the Attorney General leading our Justice Department, legal “IIPA” violations in the exposing of our undercover CIA spies, should not be the highest standard to which we hold members of our Executive Branch, and such reckless dereliction of duty with regard to vital state secrets should not be tolerated, excused, or endured by us, or by our representatives in Congress.
Steve-AR @ 157
that doesn’t explain why all dems but one (kucinich) voted for the house version of “let’s get closer to attacking iran” resolution.
something is seriously fucked up.
Steve-AR @ 158
It’s not a question of the votes now. It’s about the votes after real hearings are held. It seems strange to me we should expect a majority for impeachment before any investigation is done. It would be rather like asking a jury to come to a decision before hearing the case.
Hugh @ 158
That is the story..thanks
Steve-AR @ 158
While timing may be important, if they never even bring up a citation for a vote, the game’s over anyway. In the latter case, the precedent’s been set and left unopposed even when Congress had the numbers to try. I like that situation a whole lot less than a failed attempt at impeachment.
If we didnt give $$$ to the Dems in enough numbers they’d listen…just sayin
The people are going to drive impeachment. If Congress had the verve to do so it would have happened already. Even if Bush is not the figurehead, the NeoCons will have another one and it will be business as usual with elite rule.
I fear the Internet will be monitored and we will have greater restrictions than China. I agree we need an alternative means of communication. It may mean going back to faxes. It was the fax that changed Indonesia. All print and TV media was government controlled. When many people had faxes, the government lost control in selecting what the people could read.
The government may make it inconvenient but they can’t control everything.
Hugh @ 162
I am not even thinking that big. I don’t think they have the votes to get a contempt citation against Gonzales or even a lying third stringer out of the full House.
Jane,
Thank you so much for this thread! I agree with you 100%. We need to make this a major theme for the weeks ahead, until this nightmare is over! We must find ways of turning this into action! We are in a major fight for the soul of our country that we can’t afford to lose.
Thanks again,
Bob in
HIWIprof at 58
thanks for the article link…….
pow wow @ 161
It’s also beyond dispute that they repeatedly conducted surveillance of domestic communications without a warrant in clear violation of a federal law. The President admitted that he’d done it, and he vowed to continue doing it.
You don’t have to look hard to find justification for impeachment. The will, on the other hand, seems sadly scarce at the moment.
FYI, new thread
new thread
New thread upstairs.
Bob in
HIWIIt’s easy to tell now, isn’t it? Just hit refresh and watch the wheel go ’round for a while …
New thread thisaway.
The Bush gang flaunts its power and like a bunch of teenagers thinks it’s indestructible and behind closed doors laughs at Congress and the Americans who are watching “everythings coming up roses” MSM. I’m just waiting for the revelation to beat all others that will bust up this gang.
Miles @ 126:
That’s pretty much how I see it too (starting at least with Truman post-WWII and his Korean ‘police action’), and you make a lot of good points. But I’m not prepared to settle for this increasingly monarchical status quo. We have to start somewhere, if we ever hope to push back (which the 1973 War Powers Resolution was one Congressional attempt to do) and successfully re-establish a Constitutional balance of powers, because the drastic consequences of not doing so are now evident for all to see.
Liberal Heart @ 141
There are several ways you can have an impact but realize that these will all take time. So what ever you do, keep doing it. The fact that people don’t stop calling and emailing is in itself important.
The most important thing is to keep up the volume on as many fronts as possible. These include:
Letters/email/phone cass to:
Newspapers, and other MSM
Congresscritters. Esp all of those on key committees, even if they are not from your district.
Your local state reps and senators. The rules that the House uses make resolutions from state legislators on this issue ver important and they can not be ignored.
Your friends and neighbors.
Also, put up signs, wear T-shirts, send people links to the Moyer’s piece.
Stay active, praise the lord and pass the information
marymccurnin @ 64
I do the same thing.
Hugs to Sharkbabe!
Which would you rather have:
Bush impeached (& removed) in 2008?
Or Bush tried, convicted and imprisoned in 2010?
The choice for me is easy – 2010.
But I want both.
It seems things are coming home to roost.
Nixon leaving Washington a free man. Reagan lying his way out of town knowing Bush would pardon anyone necessary. Now many realize that impeachment is obviously necessary, but nobody is confident that it will happen because it didn’t in the past. And if it doesn’t now, Will it ever?
Pole-dancing white mother of three, twice-divorced, missing in Colorado
Chris Rock said that his duty as a father was to keep his daughters ‘off the pole.’ If I were really clever, on or off the pole could mean something else. Or what it is.
Either way is really sad.
Let ’s not forget their safety net underpinning all the Cheney/Rove/Bush machinations — election manipulation and, arising from the SCOTUS enabled 2000 election, HAVA which has led to the outsourcing of our elections, DREs and secret corporate counting of the votes. Another reason why the Republicans refuse to break ranks.
Just to add to my #111 re how the Libby commutation ‘concentrated my mind’ regarding impeachment:
It goes without saying that careful coordination with the Special Counsel should be a part of any effort to obtain the investigation’s grand jury materials, should Congress get that far, so as to not damage any ongoing or future prosecution(s) in the matter.
The main point for me in taking this approach to an impeachment inquiry is that with his commutation of Libby’s prison term, President Bush attempted to take the ground out from under the Special Counsel and thereby prevent any further activity on his part or threat from that direction to Bush and his administration. But Congress, with an impeachment inquiry, now has the opportunity and is in a position to pick up the baton that Bush imperiously knocked out of the Special Counsel’s hand, and to take his investigation to a public and unimpeded conclusion that would result in justice of some sort for those most implicated in the betrayal of CIA Officer Plame.
The confluence of the Lieberman bill AND the House bill calling for war with Iran (it cannot be read any other way) has totally detached me from the Democrats now. That was the truely last straw. I wrote to Feingold to tell him how I WAS a member of his Progressive Patriots until he and the rest of the Senate Dems voted for war with Iran with that insane Lieberman bill. I then wrote to Progressive Patriots directly and demanded that they pull my name and address from their lists. I am no longer party to these people. Any money that goes to the Democrats, individually or as a party, is support and reward for their enabling the coming war with Iran.
The Democraps HAVE purchased full ownership of the coming conflagration. THEY are responsible. THEY have tipped the balance at the White House between the State Department seeking (supposedly) a normal diplomatic means of dealing with Iran and the insane Cheney-ites to the side of the Cheney-ites. There is NO WAY the Dems can “politically” not vote for use of force against Iran IF Bush comes to them.
Frankly, I think he should go to them to ensure that they go inarguably on record as all for a new illegal war. Of course, they have given him permission to do so any time he wants but still, I hope he goes to Congress so many of you can FINALLY see what you we have been supporting up to this time.
I quit. I am now debating whether I should vote at all next year (assuming there will be a vote rather than martial law and suspended elections). I know full well now that if I do vote it will NOT be for a single Democrat OR Rethuglican.
Why doesn’t someone introduce an impeachment resolution or whatever it is called and start the discussion.
Let’s see them begin airing all the tons of dirty laundry.
If congress does nothing… it’s really time for a revolution.
Our government has completely and utterly failed us.
Ummm…would that be the same people the netroots put into office that unanimously voted for Lieberman’s Iran War bill (in the senate) and those that voted for HR Con R 21 in the House calling for war with Iran? THOSE netroots-supported representatives? THOSE?!
For god’s sake Jane, there have been a LOT of people since 2000 SHOUTING out loud the evil of these people.
Where the hell YOU been?
WE have been freaked out since Watergate. And Iran/Contra.
We KNEW the second Bush was evil.
THEN!!! And they STOLE the election. THEN!
And BUTCHERED NoLA.
And butchered 911, and single source contracting, and created evil and monsters like BlackHawk, and stole the Republic.
And yer suggesting this is a NEW phenom, and YOU are asking HOW DID IT HAPPEN??
It happened cuz progressives slept for 3 decades. If you want to DO something about it, you’d best get ready to wade into the fray and count some coup, and book readings won’t cut it to save the Republic.
Harumph.
Praedor Atrebates @ 187
Case rested. Thank you.
NEXT!
Not time to play nice anymore. Time for action, attack, attack and attack.
Time to CLAIM the dialogue, paint the asshats as bad, and hammer them.
Time for MASS ACTION. In the Streets. Boycotts, labor stoppages.
If the blogosphere is gutless to announce this, and lead it, then it TOO is a sell out as are the Dem’s.
I mean, NO one wants to lose their wealth over a REPUBLIC, do they . . . or their homes, jobs or lives . . .
Never MIND in a few years, it will all be taken from you anyway.
Harumph. Gutless.
this is exactly right. How/Who will role back the abuses of this RICO-regime once it is safely out of office? Short answer: no one. Power once given (taken) is very hard to impossible to rescind.
Unless you are talking about the power of the American People to actually have the power in the nation.
And as we have learned with past administrations it matters not a bit whether the expansionist administration was the same party or not.
CNuck @ 13
I was offline all weekend, but I want to take this opportunity to chime in. FDL is my #1 blog, and you all are like family. I mostly lurk, but that doesn’t mean I’m not here avidly reading.
Yes. And therefore, we should be demanding that our presidential candidates show us now, ex ante, a long list of the Bush policies they’d repudiate explicitly by executive order not later than, say, January 21, 2009. They could have these drawn up and ready to go in a briefcase at the inauguration itself. And also a list of Bush-era legislation they’d aggressively work to repeal — most of the Patriot Acts, tax cuts, the torture bill, the habeas corpus elimination act, etc.
Do you think Pelosi has a complete set of articles of impeachment documents waiting for just the right moment, hidden in a paper bag, under her desk???
If she does, WTF is she waiting for?????
my answer:
I think, in effect, she does. As to: WTF is she waiting for?
She’s waiting for the right moment — kairós, as the ancient Greeks used to say.
I think that moment is rapidly approaching. You can see it by the polls and by the intensity of feelings. Don’t tell me the American people don’t care, when 54% already believe Cheney should be impeached.
I;ve always thought she was a canny politician. It’s good strategy to lull your enemy into believing you are a spineless wimp.
But I would start with Gonzales. Not only for the reasons usually given, like the fact that he has no support, but also because his continuing to be the Attorney General is actually an insurmountable obstacle to anything being done to nail the bastards.
Jane,
It’s so good to have you back and posting with some regularity. Hope all is well.
I really beg to differ with your post. Fact is, I think it’s bleaker than you make it out to be. Sure, Republican presidents will be able to expand their powers when they have compliant congresses. However, when there are Democratic presidents the opposition party will employ all means possible to rope in the executive. I knew once they let the Independent Counsel law sunset (under which Kenneth Starr persecuted Bill Clinton) to expect a Republican president and one where there would be no checks on his power, having seen how Bush 41 and Reagan operated.
Democrats tend to work for consensus, generally play nice, and often get caught with their hands in the till. Republicans are authoritarian and thuggish and often engender Constitutional conflicts and crises. Democrats see themselves as working for their constituents. Republicans see themselves as a managerial class, appointed to do whatever they see fit. These two styles of governance, ethics, if you will, are the reason R prez’s push the legal limits of their powers and D prez’s feel constrained.
Best,
Jim H.
The events of recent weeks have freaked a lot of people out.
I’m not freaked out, I’m just… trembling a tiny bit… can’t sleep… angry most of the time… trying to figure out when to leave the country… that sort of thing.
Don’t be silly, Jane. Freaked out? Not me.
In line with my comment at 194, take a look at BooMan’s extremely interesting — and, I think, extremely knowledgeable — scenario at
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2…..n-is-here/
He explains the exact meaning of “the right moment…”
I’ve heard repeatedly, even from some on this site, that we should not impeach Bush simply because it would appear to absolve Bush of his crimes~ when the recalcitrant Republican Senators refused to acknowledge the “high misdemeanors” of the President, Cheney and others. These same Senators were ones that judged Clintons evasions about his BJ with Monica in front of the salacious Ken Starr as amounting to a high crime against the public trust!
Well my opinion is that if these idiots desire to expose themselves as the hypocites they are then we have to allow them the forum to do so. Let them defend there vote for impeaching Clinton while, just a few years later IGNORING the clear Unconstitutional acts of the despot from THEIR PARTY.
And THEN, when the voters speak on the next cycle of Senatorial elections we can hang their votes, and their unflagging devotion to their Presidents WAR and his stripping OUR CONSTITUTION AWAY upon their necks. Bush is asking them to put “THEIR NECKS into the meat grinder” ~ so let them do what good Bushies are expected to do!
THEN…in 2009 a second vote on impeachment can be taken…after the NEW PRESIDENT enables the full-exposure of the Bush cabals crimes…and Bush can then (with a more rationale Congressional super-majority…and scared incumbent Republican Senators) to disqualify Bush, Cheney, Gonzalez, Rice and others from the right
“to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States.”
Read THAT carefully!
They would no longer be able to hold an ambassadorship, judgeship, SERVE in any executive capacity, receive Federal Contracts or Grants (there goes the “George W. Bush Presidential Library” although I suppose that a private donor could give the money to place “My Pet Goat” in an outhouse)
or ENJOY their federal pensions, retirements, Secret Service protection, franking priveleges, the right to use the TITLES or SYMBOLS of office to promote speeches or books (no playing of “Hail to the Chief” or use of the Presidential Seal on the dais).
I suppose the impeachment conviction could allow the use of the term “former President of the United States” for historical purposes…but only if it included the phrase “impeached and convicted”.
There is historical precedent for post-term impeachment. A former Secretary of State who resigned was impeached by Congress, and Judges have also been impeached after quitting. And the striking of pensions and other benefits from impeached individals (as well as those convicted of felonies) is one that has long standing in English Common Law and in the Constitutions of the States.
Francis Bacon was “impeached” by his peers in Parliament and forbidden to return to his position in the House of Lordsand was almost stripped of his titles after a bribery confession.
Here is an article on post-term impeachment presented when the impeachment of Clinton was going on.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardonop3.htm
Don’t let Bush (and these Senators) even think they can “run out the clock”.
Take “the clock” back from them…and give us back our Constitution!
Priscilla, Queen of the Beach @ 18
But it’s not just Georgie Boy. It IS a Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy!
Just look at all the discrete financial or political interests served by the Iraq war. It serves a lot of different interests. And, they’re not going to go down easy. They’ll all be yellin’, “You’ll never take me alive copper.”
‘Course, they all actually think THEY are the LAW and nothing can ever touch them.
Sharkbabe @ 57
“I think I’m going to vomit … on you. D’ya think maybe ya could stop and let me out?”
There may be some Republican senators saying similar things to Georgie Boy.
I suspect it will take a while for the enormity of the public shift away from Republican senators to be recognized. In that time Dems will gain tremendous support and the inevitable will still happen — Republicans will leave Bush and give Congressional Dems the power they need to set things right.
I suspect, after the September Petreaus report, that some more Repubs will begin to oppose the Iraq war. That alone might be enough to change the world.
Getting rid of Cheney would take a while (if he doesn’t leave of his own accord before then).
I’d expect an impeachment investigation to be underway by January 2008. And to me it looks like troops will be coming home no later than next Spring.
That means there could be a presidential impeachment begun next Summer…just in time to really destroy Republicans who are out campaigning for president on the basis that they’ll be all the president their predecessor (you know, the guy in chains in the dock) was. Lovely.
Of course, events could hasten if Republicans sense this schedule isn’t really to their liking.
james @ 114
That case was decided on the basis that the INS decisionmaking was an appropriate EXECUTIVE FUNCTION and the Congressional action of determining that Chandra could remain in the US violated the principle of “separation of powers”.
This case would be different since the War Powers Act specifically authorizes Joint RESOLUTIONS as legitimate authorizations for allowing the President to undertake temporary military actions abroad. It is not a BILL…AND, in fact, since declaring WAR is an express legislative function, entirely within the domain of the Congress to DEAUTHORIZE by use of a resolution requiring a simple majority.
Of course, the Democrats still have to overcome the issue of the Republicans in the Senate who will refuse to enact cloture and allow the Bill to come to the floor for a vote.larue @ 187
larue @ 187
You assume that Jane wasn’t aware of those events a generation or more ago. Clearly you haven’t read many of her essays.
And the creation of this blog-site and the book-club is IN FACT a means of educating people (particularly young people and those who are now just realizing) that something is seriously pathologically wrong with this country.
I find it interesting that there are many people out there willing to cast aspersions at the credentials of those that came later to the realization or “activity” than others, however. Or that didn’t “wade into the fray” and “count coup”.
That arrogance is a recipe for the failures to succeed that, in fact, allowed the Bushies and their cabal to lull the public into the sense of acquiescence that have allowed them to cement their power. These are failed strategies that have been used by the Conservatives and Neo-Conservatives to engender fear within the public.
We HAVE TO BE SMARTER to succeed this time ’round!
I don’t believe that such exclusionary language about “WHERE WERE YOU WHEN….” will ever accomplish what you want…hundreds of thousands out in the streets. Because those people will also be the ones you are marginalizing as not being a legitimate part of the movement.
I think that this blog has reached hundreds of thousands MORE people in far less time than the best efforts of those black-masked anarchists breaking Starbucks windows in Seattle ever could. And how effective do you think the escapades of “Code Pink” prancing about in the Senate Chambers while Valerie Plame gave her statements were?
If one wants to expand a movement one has to have respect for those that you are trying to educate and recruit…and realize that they come from a different place than you do. If you don’t you’re going to remain a marginalized movement…
Now ask yourself WHY “progressives slept for 3 decade”.
Or maybe it wasn’t that they were sleeping…it was just that they were doing ineffective things to counter those in power.
Sadly, we knew from day one Bush would take us here.
Everybody reading this blog knew in their hearts that this is exactly where we would wind up.
jacqrat @ 59
Ya want cardiac arrest, tell em Teddy Kennedy
Shouldn’t we ask conservatives if they plan to stand up for Constitutional principles they used to be so enthusiastic about? We should say the following to them:
We saw during the immigration debate how much noise you can make; now is the time to make as much noise on another issue that threatens the integrity of the republic. Even now we are noting your response, and we’ll remind you of it often when you complain about President Hillary doing it and citing W. as precedent. If that prospect troubles you please make a principled stand with us right now; you don’t want to be laughed out of the room like you are with your recently-rediscovered passion for fiscal responsibility.
Love,
The Libs