(Please welcome George Condon and Marcus Stern, two of the co-authors–along with Jerry Kammer and Dean Calbreath–of The Wrong Stuff: The Extraordinary Saga of Randy “Duke” Cunningham, the Most Corrupt Congressman Ever Caught. As always with guests here at FDL, please be polite and stay on topic in comments and questions. Any off-topic comments should be taken to another thread. Please join me in giving George and Marcos a big FDL welcome. — emptywheel)
2005 was the year two regional papers showed the media establishment what it meant to act as a watchdog over the powerful. There was the Toledo Blade, which busted Tom Noe and a bunch of corrupt Ohio Republicans for dumping the money from the state’s Workers Comp fund into Noe’s risky rare coin scheme. And there was the team joining us today from Copley News and the San Diego Union-Tribune, which uncovered the unbelievably audacious bribery scheme that funded Duke Cunningham’s extravagant lifestyle. We complain a lot about the mainstream media in the blogosphere–but this story and this book provide an example of the great work that a team of professional, tenacious journalists can accomplish.
The Wrong Stuff is an excellent book on many levels. It pulls together the entire story–not just of Cunningham’s corruption, but of the network of Southern California Republicans sucking taxpayer dollars up using the appropriations process. It adds some fascinating details to the story presented in the San Diego Union-Tribune‘s coverage. My favorites include:
- The description of Cunningham as a crier (“He was always weeping,” Robert Dornan is quoted as saying)
- Details about how Cunningham tried to inflate even his military heroism
- The description of Cunningham’s hot tub–filled with water from the Potomac and never cleaned–which he insisted on using while stark naked, even in the middle of parties
- Mitchell Wade’s boasts that he had Dick Cheney “in his backpocket”
It’s a good narrative too: while the book ostensibly tells Cunningham’s biography, the authors weave the many tangential players into the story gracefully, as they do here when they introduce Brent Wilkes into Duke’s Cunningham’s narrative:
In May 1972, as Duke Cunningham was in aerial combat against North Vietnamese fighter pilots, Brent Wilkes–who three decades later would be identified as co-conspirator number one in the Cunningham corruption case–was entering the final month of his senior year at Hilltop High School in Chula Vista…
With such transitions they manage to tie the whole corrupt crowd into the story, while remaining a readable book.
But the thing that makes this book important beyond Cunningham and his corrupt buddies is the larger framework the authors hang the story onto: the abuse of the Congressional earmark system. Here’s their description of how the earmark system has ballooned into an industry unto itself.
When Reagan took office in 1981, there were fewer than ten earmarks in the transportation bill, according to the Heritage Foundation. Seven years later, the president vetoed the bill because it had 121 earmarks in it. In 1991, that grew to 538 earmarks; then 1,850 by 1998; and by 2005 the total surpassed 6,373–costing a staggering $24.2 billion–according to Taxpayers for Common Sense.
And the problem was not confined to the transportation bill. In a bitter irony for fiscal conservatives, the pork swelled in all spending bills after Republicans took over. Two years earlier, under Democrats, there had been 892 earmarks worth $2.6 billion. By 1998, there were about 2,000 earmarks worth $10.6 billion. By 2005, the number had jumped to nearly 14,000, at a cost of $27.3 billion.
The architect of the Republican takeover, Speaker Newt Gingrich, ordered appropriators to make sure that vulnerable Republican members got what they needed for local projects. Earmarking might have been terrible governance, but it was great politics. Earmarks were part of the Washington incumbent protection machine, especially for Republican leaders determined to protect their majority status.
Under the close watch of Gingrich and his top lieutenant, Tom DeLay of Texas, the Republicans took to assigning members from toss-up districts to Appropriations Committees. This paid immediate political dividends. It allowed newcomers, despite their lack of seniority, to deliver more pork projects to their district and it allowed them to raise more money because now they could hit up the companies that wanted earmarks.
Not surprisingly, the ranks of Washington lobbyists swelled in tandem with earmarking. The selling of earmarks became a specialized industry because lobbying firms recruited former members of Congress and congressional staffers whose connections could grease the process. By one count in 2005, Washington had nearly thirty-five thousand registered lobbyists, more than twice as many as it had in 2000, and sixty-five for every member of Congress.
This is a book about Duke Cunningham. But at many levels, Cunningham and Mitchell Wade and Brent Wilkes and Dusty Foggo are only archetypes used to illustrate how earmarks, in the hands of self-important men, invite massive corruption and inefficient government. As such the book is important beyond the Cunningham case, because it reminds us that Congress has thus far refused to substantially change the system that enabled Duke Cunningham’s corruption.
There’s one more interesting thread in the book. In addition to the story of Duke Cunningham’s corruption, the book tells how each of the four authors pulled on a string associated with Cunningham and uncovered another part of the story, not least the way that Marcus Stern noted a detail in a story he was editing–that the Saudi-American Ziyad Abduljawad had sponsored two trips to Saudi Arabia for Cunningham to “promote discourse and better relations.” Stern recognized that the stated reason for the trip was bogus–this is the kind of bullshit detector so few journalists seem to use anymore. From there, Stern conducted a “lifestyle audit” of Cunningham, which is how he discovered Cunningham’s new mansion in Rancho Santa Fe, and after that, the complex bribes that made such an extravagant house possible. It’s a fascinating glimpse behind the scenes of reporting the story. And you’ll be glad to know this section pays tribute to the work of Josh Marshall and other bloggers who helped uncover the larger network of bribes. Not only is the book a testament to what professional reporters can and should be doing, but it’s a nod to the way that bloggers and professional reporters can work together to hold the powerful accountable.
I’ll end with an anecdote. As I related the other day, I was reading this book while sitting next to Michigan Congressman Joe Knollenberg on my flight to DC last week. He watched out of the corner of his eye as I read intently and took copious notes. All of which seemed to be making Knollenberg very very uncomfortable (and he certainly seemed to have no interest in doing work while sitting next to a DFH blogger). What better recommendation can you give a book, than that the mere act of reading it in close proximity to Republican Congressmen makes them all squirmy and nervous?
I’ll start today’s discussion with two questions I think many readers will want answered (I’ll save my really weedy ones for the comment section):
- This epilogue includes early details about Carol Lam’s firing (and notes that DOJ “took an unusually long time in approving the indictments of Cunningham, Foggo, and Wilkes”). Can you say more about the delays in the indictments? And given all the details that have been revealed since the publication of the book, do you have a better sense of whether the Lam firing was retaliation for the Cunningham prosecution? Has the Lam firing affected the work of the AUSAs who are prosecuting the case (who are profiled in the book)? And do you think that (former Los Angeles US Attorney) Deborah Wong Yang’s departure ties to the Jerry Lewis investigation?
- As you relate in your book, Thomas Kontogiannis is the guy who accompanied Cunningham on that trip to Saudi Arabia and one of the guys paying his Rancho Santa Fe mortgage. In the last month or so, details of Thomas Kontogiannis’ plea deal have been unsealed. Are there any details from what has been unsealed that you think adds significantly to the story? What questions do you still have about Kontogiannis’ involvement?



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Wow! I live in San Diego, so this hits home.
DUKE!
Welcome, George and Marcus!
a zed?
Marcy! I have been looking forward to this all week. So good to have you at the lake.
lolo
Welcome to FDL, George and Marcus. You’ve done such amazing work on this story. I’d certainly like to know more about the Carol Lam firing. Have you learned more since the publication of the book?
Loo Hoo. @ 1
I used to live about 1/4 mile from the gated community where Wilkes now lives. It was a corrupt, corrupt neighborhood.
Wow. Hello everyone at FDL. This is a great honor. And Marcy (emptywheel) did a fabulous job of summing up the book. We really appreciate her kind words. George is here and we will get started answering questions asap.
On Carol Lam, my reporting suggests that she in fact didn’t have a lot of day-to-day impact on the investigation when she was there. And her absence hasn’t had a huge direct impact. Having said that…
Marc @ 8
Welcome Marc
It was a great book–I was already most of the way through it when Jane offered me the chance to review it. You guys (and your editors) pulled off a lot of things (like telling how you guys broke the story) that are really tough to pull off.
Yup. This is a must read. I’m too, if you know anything about his wife. There doesn’t seem to be any possible way she didn’t know this was crooked money.
The Justice first pointed its gun at Lam before the Cunningham scandal broke. However, it didn’t pull the trigger until Dec ‘06 when the department was grappling with the question of whether to pursue indictments against Wilkes and Foggo. That is curious timing.
Marc @ 9
Can you say more about the AUSAs prosecuting the case? You describe how they all jumped on the story as soon as your first story broke. What’s your sense of how they’ve done with the case so far?
And do you think anything from the trial (such as the leaks or the weird request to keep stuff sealed) is coming from Main DOJ?
While the people on the frontline of the criminal justice system apparently did NOT feel any political pressure from Washington, that doesn’t tell us what the senior people at justice were saying and trying to accomplish. In other words, they may have wanted to muzzle or constrain the prosecutors, but the prosecutors never felt the pressure. Certainly, they never pulled back. Delayed maybe. But not pulled back.
Loo Hoo. @ 11
Nancy Cunningham, who has filed for divorce, claims not to have known anything about anything. Some of her claims stretch credulity as when she went to Washington as a senior Education Dept official and claimed not to know her husband was on the Education Committee that oversaw her dept. We can’t disprove her claims of ignorance but we can say that she definitely not a force for reining her husband in and there is ample evidence that she liked good things in life. At the least she contributed a good nickname into the saga — dubbing her husband “Mr. Funball” because of his wandering eye.
The Kontogiannis matter is still unfolding. The government is trying to keep critical documents sealed, including transcripts of Kontogiannis’ plea discussions and transcripts of interviews the prosecutors did of Cunningham in prison in February. The Union-Tribune is trying to have it unsealed. The matter is now before the 9th Circuit. We hope to gain access to some of the documents soon, regardless.
George @ 15
Oh yeah, to be perfectly smutty–that detail, plus the detail about the KY lubricant all over the yacht and the Congressional office–those are more of the fun details you added to the newspaper coverage.
This is the family value party, right?
According to the advertisment, you’re a day early, but welcome, anyway. ;)
My question is a sort of general one that you may not be able to answer, which is why were you guys the ones to unearth this thing rather than the Washington, DC bureaus of some of our, let’s see, [SARCASM]prestigious[/SARCASM] news agencies?
George @ 15
We keep steel wool and bleach around here for mental images just like that.
Any chances of bringing down Jerry Lewis and Darryl Issa through the Duke corruption?
The AUSAs have been very aggressive in pursuing the investigation — and continue to be very aggresive. Two instituation that usually are ripe for criticism — the msm and justice system — might have redeemed themselves in their respective handling of the Cunningham scandal, i say with all modesty.
I am sure this is covered in the book, but Wong left the USA’s office to become partner–she was not a partner before entering the USA’s office–at the very same firm, I think, that was defending Duke and known associates, and received a signing bonus of over $1 million. I mean, c’mon!!!!!!!! Pls, someone correct me if I am wrong about what firm she ended up at.
Greetings, all. A more meta question for the authors – do you think that your distance from DC helps you dig into stuff like this more easily than if you were on the cocktail circuit (or, God forbid, the Dukestir) with the principals of this saga? Does the fact that it is local papers like the SD Union-Tribune and the Toledo Blade say anything larger about the relationship of the press and the powerful?
Cujo359 @ 18
This is a story that could not easily be broken by a national paper or a national wire service. We are a regional paper and we pay a lot of attention to our own senators and members of the House. We know Cunningham and have known him for his entire career. (where do you think all the reports about his outrageous behavior came from?). So when he went to Saudi Arabia we thought something was strange. Or to be fairer, Marc Stern thought something was strange and assigned himself to check it out and dig deeper. It was his curiousity and then tenacity that unearthed things at a time when no investigation was underway and no suspicions evident. But it’s not really a condemnation of the big papers as much as a reminder that as regional newspapers cut back their coverage we all lose.
dakine01 @ 20
please, please
On the K-Y Jelly: I like to joke that if Cunningham held a press conference and I had a chance to ask one question, I’d ask what was up with the K-Y Jelly? A member of his staff told me that it had a nautical use. I asked him how he knew. He said because another staffer had told him. I asked him how they came to be talking about it. He said because Cunningham kept K-Y Jelly in his office on the Hill. I asked him what the nautical purpose was in his office. He didn’t come up with a meaningful reply. Just what Duke did with the K-Y Jelly will have to remain one of many mysteries connected with this case.
Marcus and George,
Kontogiannis twice got off without jail time for bribery. He was bribing Duke Cunningham while his case for bribing the school superintendent was progressing. What is up with this guy? Aren’t they suggesting probation for him again? Do you think he has some special connections to US or Greek intelligence? What kind of businesses does he have abroad? And why would he throw his nephew “under the bus?”
Mutant Poodle @ 23
Sorry, but we are in Washington. I would argue the opposite. If we weren’t here and didn’t know how Congress operates and didn’t understand earmarks we would not have got the story or put it in its proper context. Too many members of Congress want yo to think this is just a story about one corrupt congressman instead of an indictment of the system of earmarks that exploded after 1994 and became an invitation to corruption.
Anything more about the D.C. hotel room parties with prostitutes? Like other congressmen that were there?
Marc @ 16
What are your thoughts as to the motivation behind this dog and pony subterfuge? Who is assigned to the 9th Circuit Panel for this issue? What are the prospects of some break out issue that bores directly into the Vice-President’s Office and sets the Administration back on it’s heels a bit?
Marc @ 26
Why, there must be all sorts of uses for a lubricant that keeps latex and human flesh sliding freely on a boat. Like, uhmm …
On Lewis and Lowery: Our colleague and co-author Jerry Kammer did incredible reporting piecing together the Lewis-Lowery machine. It also provided a perfect illustration of how cancerous things have gotten when it comes to earmarks — and I am talking about the part of the system that is legal. I believe Lewis and Lowery tried to stay within the law — it was a law cleverly written and exploited by the likes of Lewis and Lowery, and many incumbents. We will have to see if the prosecutors are able to find instances where they strayed across the line, ala Duke and his “gifts” or, as we would refer to them, bribes.
IMHO the SDUT is not usually the paper to go after somebody like Duke.
Didn’t they endorse him every single time he ran for re-election? Can you give us a peek behind the curtain. How difficult was it to get them to support this story- or was there a reason that they supported it and have ignored countless other corruption stories? How many times have your editors stomped on a story for political reasons?
I had learned from the Bill Moyers’ special on “Buying the War” that the press was kept in a “bubble” where unwanted information was kept from the press and they were told whatever the administration wanted the public to hear. How difficult does that make the reporter’s job, knowing that you might be told only what the politicians want you to know?
Loo Hoo. @ 29
And the gender of the prostitutes?
Marc @ 12
Curious indeed. I keep seeing all the evidence is pointing back to the White House, mainly Bush, Rove, Miers, and Gonzales. Which leaves the Head of the Family Vice President out of the picture, as he prefers. Do you know of evidence pointing in Cheney’s direction?
chris @ 33
Excellent question–when I lived in Poway, I used to call it the “Onion.” I’ve since stopped doing so, on the basis of this story alone.
On Kontogiannis, it seems to me that the prosecutors are signaling through their actions that Kontogiannis is leading them into classified areas. That suggests he’s cooperating on matters overseas and maybe beyond the immediate criminal case. This guy is now a three-time loser who has never done a day of jail time. If he slips off again, a lot of questions will be raised.
chris @ 33
I have been in the Washington bureau since 1982 and the number of times my editors have spiked a story for political reasons is zero. You also have to understand there is a wall between the editorial page and reporters. We are not consulted on editorials and play no role in them and editorial writers have no role in our stories. There was absolutely no hesitation on the part of the editors when we sent them Marc’s initial story in June 2005. Quite the contrary, they mobilized reporters there in San Diego to explore every aspect of the story, ran full pages of letters to the editor and also wrote editorials condemning his actions. One final point, endorsements in congressional races are sometimes skewed because we have so many gerrymandered districts that rarely do you have much of a choice. The district is so overwhelmingly Republican that rarely can you get a strong Democrat to run that a newspaper can endorse. It is not a good system.
Marc- you’ve said that you doubted the Saudi Arabia trip was to promote better relations. Why do you think they went to Saudi Arabia?
What did Abduljawad get out of it?
From “Checkers” to Duke Cunningham. The bar hasn’t been lowered, it’s missing. And nothing is going to change as long as elected officials are bought and sold, like inexpensive rugs in an Iraq bazaare. Want to get rid of of the Cunninghams of this country? Public financing of elections might help. ;0)
On the war coverage, this is a issue near and dear to my heart. I have been to Iraq three times and Afghanistan twice. On none of these trips was I embedded with the military. I did stories on various units, but I never bedded down with them. More importantly, I was more focused on telling the story of the civilians who found their homes turned into the central battlefield of the war on terror. I firmly believe the media need to be far more independent. Bedding down with the military on assignment sometimes is necessary. But it is a bad idea generally, with all due respects to Ernie Pyle. And it is a terrible way to cover a war.
Here’s my really weedy question.
MZM was (and its successor still is) hip deep in CIFA–a program that demonstrably abused Americans’ civil liberties. And it appears that a bunch of evidence relating to the program has just disappeared.
In your book, your portray Mitch Wade as being exclusively interested in money, regardless of whether it hurts national security in the process. Is there any chance that MZM was involved in some of this domestic surveillance–and that the bribery was supporting Nixonian surveillance of the Administration’s enemies? It seems like the contracts of interest would be the first one (the one that paid for the Duke Stir) and the data storage contract. From external reporting, at least, the investigation started looking closely at MZM’s contracts in May 2006, when they talked more seriously about firing Lam.
Any Duncan Hunter connections? He was on the teevee after the sentencing stating that Funball was a good friend of his. If Hunter’s presidential candidacy ever gets any traction, those videos need to be shown widely.
funball
Some balls are held for earmarks
and some for fancy pots
you won’t need to bring the KY jelly
when you come aboard my yacht.
On Saudi Arabia… I don’t feel I know what was happening. But here’s what I would GUESS based on a fair amount of reporting, including people who were centrally involved: I would guess that Abduljawad was recruiting Cunningham to say nice things on the House floor about Saudi Arabia. Abduljawad couldn’t pay Cunningham directly. So the idea was for Abduljawad or agents of the Saudi government to contract with MZM to provide help on their image in the United States. Cunningham would say nice things, as he most certainly did. The Saudi government would pay Mitch Wade. Mitch Wade would kick back money to Cunningham under the table. Abduljawad’s attorney denies this. The Saudi government denies it. And the pr firm that handles this kind of stuff for the Saudi embassy(Corvis) denies it. So it is unproved, but there is evidence.
Has Duke “co-operated”- that is, has he given any information to investigators since his incarceration?
emptywheel @ 43
To pile on, has anyone been able to tie the money for that first contract to any actual services rendered? Like, oh, say, office furniture?
I didn’t know Barbara Bush was a direct desendent of Franklin Pierce. I’m watching Robert Wuhl’s history lesson on HBO. It’s called Assume thePosition 2001.
Sorry-wrong thread.
Loo Hoo. @ 44
There certainly are contracts on which Hunter and Cunningham were allied. But let me just answer on their personal ties. Hunter was always a big admirer of Cunningham going back to the days when Duke was still in the Navy. He, along with Bob Dornan, was critical in getting Cunningham into Congress. For a long time he was in denial about the corruption and even today I think finds it hard to accept. But he was in court when Cunningham admitted it was true so he knows it is. He maintains that it would be wrong for him to cast aside a friend and will stick by him.
But to me one of the interesting parts of this story is how Cunningham totally ignored the example of his friend Hunter once he got to Washington. Hunter is a non-drinker, non-womanizer who does not frequent the bars with the lobbyists. That meant he was not out there partying with “Mr. Funball.” You can accuse him of being an enabler by not paying attention but he was not in on the party.
There is a fair amount of evidence that Cunningham’s patrons, Wade (MZM) and Wilkes (ADCS, et al.) were very much invovled in Talon and other domestic spying programs handled by CIFA. This is an area that really needs to be investigated further. On the plus side, having MZM do the domestic spying meant not a lot of spying would get done. But those programs and contracts are still in place. And we need to know if the programs were spawned by the contracts. That is, did the greed of intel contractors like Wade and lawmakers like Cunningham play a role in enacting the domestic spying programs just so they could make a few more bucks. That’s typically how these guys worked: “Say, here’s something we can tell the government it really needs. Let’s propose it and get them to buy it from us.” That approach, which is how earmarks work, turns the process on its head, perverting priorities and leading to bad programs. In this case, maybe bad and dangerous programs.
What is your guess as to why Wilkes pleaded not guilty? Does he have a chance of getting off?
Most of the 9-11 terrorists, as we know, came from Saudia Arabia. And about half of the foreign fighters and suicide bombers doing what they do in Iraq come from Saudia Arabia. And Saudia Arabia is heavily connected to the Bush family’s financial interests. What to make of this?
On Duke’s cooperation: I like to say that Duke exited the public stage crying but not singing. He was of little use to investigators (expect when he wrote the bribe menu and left it on his boat). However, one of the documents I’m trying to get my hands on is a still-sealed transcript of jailhouse interviews the prosecutors did with Cunningham in Feburary. When I see how he handled their questions at that point, it will give me a better idea about whether Duke is genuinely cooperating or still protecting himself and his co-conspirators.
Marc @ 52
What would you say is the biggest obstacle to finding out more about that? Didn’t a lot of this shady crap happen under the blanket of Homeland Security such that nobody would ever be able to look into it closely?
Do you know anything about what his daily life is like in prison?
On Wilkes’ not-guilty plea: I have to feel that Carl Rove was mightily relieved when Wilkes pleaded not guilty. Remember, Wilkes gave two-thirds of a million dollars to Republicans. And he flew people like Tom Delay around on private jets. So he would have a lot of stories to tell the government about his dealings with national Repubicans. Someone like Rove would have to worry that Wilkes’ cooperation with the government would create more vulnerable Republican districts. Having said that…
I know you said that Duncan, culturally, doesn’t follow the same path as Cunningham did. But they’ve been working earmarks together since Cunningham got to the House.
How much of the abuse of earmarks is endemic to the CA GOP, perhaps because of the influence the defense industry used to have and still does, to a lesser degree? That is, it seems like a crowd of the CA Congressman (you mentioned Lowery and Lewis, as well), really specialize in this kind of large scale pork. Are they just getting worse press than their colleagues (on both sides of the aisle)–or is it something they’ve perfected?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 54
This is bigger than Bush. Every U.S. president, at least since Richard Nixon, has seen U.S.-Saudi ties as crucial to Middle East stability. But the United States has paid a price for this. It was not until 9/11 that many realized that Whabbism — a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam — was breeding terrorists eager to war against the West. There is also the danger that the Saudi royal family will at some point be overthrown leaving the U.S. scrambling for a new policy.
The evidence against Wilkes is clear and convincing. I fully expect him to be convicted. But before I make that prediction outright, I have two letters for you: OJ.
Marc @ 61
What do you think will happen now that Geragos got thrown off the team? It seems like Wilkes might have an interesting Constitutional challenge…
Marc @ 62
Yeah, but the judge told Wilkes he had to lose Geragos cause he wouldn’t get a security clearance. Was that all just for show?
Is there any connection to the Bandar Bush bribery investigation with all of this?
emptywheel @ 59
On the earmark question, the problem is institutionalized at this point. The people using this tool perniciously aren’t simply Republican or Democrat. They are incumbents of both parties. Earmarks have been used as an incumbency protection program by both parties. As for Duncan Hunter, we are looking at his earmarks and will be publishing (I hope) a story soon that will raise a lot of questions about Hunter’s use of earmarks.
Hey Mr. Stern!
Hopefully we’ll see you at your book signing up in Marin in August (I’m a friend of Cassandra’s – hopefully she can make it out from DC then). Congratulations on your pulitzer!
Cujo359 @ 31
Readers Digest shed some light on this mystery, recently. Article about a patient complaining about the taste of the Kentucky Jelly. If I recall, the title was “Laughter, the best medicine.”
Thanks, Blender. Cassandra’s friends call me either Marc or Pops. Please feel free. I hope to meet you at the Marin County event. Send your friends! I’ll need good questions.
How would a contractor like MZM get access to NSA technology? Do you know what part of the spying process MZM participated in? I would assume there are several parts to an operation such as the actual wiretaps, analysis, storage, transcription, etc.
It would certainly be easier for Cheney and Rove to direct a spying apparatus and hide documentation if it was done through a contractor
What an awesome, meaty discussion!
George @ 65
My apologies for inserting my answer in the middle of your question. I hope you can sort it out.
On the Bandar-Bush connections to this scandal: I don’t know the answer to the question. There is a Saudi defense scandal errupting in England and I’m watching that for connections to this scandal. I still am very interested in the Saudi connection to the Cunningham scandal. And I can use all the help I can get from citizen muckrakers.
TheGris @ 70
TALON was different–no taps involved. It was a database of incidents reported in, such as a “concerned citizen” calling in news about Quakers planning a peace protest outside a military base.
So mostly, it’s a database of details about people who could be construed as a threat against the military in this country. Jesus’ General has been surveilled, as have peace groups.
MZM got the contract for data storage connected with the program.
George @ 72
Not a problem—the nested comments takes some practice–and we regulars still screw it up at times…
Marc @ 73
I don’t know, but something here might be helpful:
http://baltimorechronicle.com/…..loyd.shtml
Marc @ 46
Well, that’s an informed opinion. Would you like to hear an uninformed opinion?
I think the Saudis have a well deserved reputation for paying off people AFTER they leave office, and being damned reliable when it comes to this. Plans didn’t work out for Duke, but you can’t blame the Saudis.
On domestic spying, CIFA and the WH: Someone mentioned earlier the contract MZM had to provide furniture to the White House. In fact, it was MZM’s first contract (2002). One of the things we learned in the course of doing this book was what that contract actually was for. It wasn’t furniture. We learned (it’s in the book) that the contract was to screen the president’s mail. So here, post 9/11, we have a company — MZM — whose first contract is to screen the president’s mail. Ahem.
Wasn’t MZM much more competent than Wilkes’ ADCS? Wilkes was doing hi-tech photocopying and hired geeks and family- but weren’t there some real former intelligence types working for MZM? Didn’t they do the consulting for one investigation- was it the Robb Silverman investigation?
Marc @ 78
Or provide a secure email server…
Welcome George & Marcus!
In all your research, did you gather that if Cunningham hadn’t been a Top Gun pilot, a glorious winged hero, that he never would have fallen so far and so hard?
LS @ 80
LOL
I keep waiting for that to surface–wrap all the BushCo scandals into one.
Probably not going to happen, but there’s certainly something funny with that contract.
ccmask @ 49
There have been 14 presidential elections since 1948. Consider the two parties, each put up a presidential candidate and a v.p. candidate, so, a total of 56 candidates since WWII.
Number of elections that did not feature a decendent of a president, vice president, or a senator? 4, one of which was 1972 which featured a member of the Kennedy clan, Sergeant Shriver.
newtonusr @ 81
This is an easy one. There is absolutely no question that Cunningham would not have been a corrupt congressman if he had not been a war hero and ace. That is because he never would have been a congressman at all. He would probably have still been a teacher. It was the Vietnam experience — and more importantly how the Navy and then the political world treated him — that led to the incredible sense of entitlement and put him in touch with the folks who engineered his entry into politics. The fact is that he didn’t even register to vote before then. One of the things in the book is that he prevented his first wife from registering to vote because he thought it would subject him to higher taxes in California!
On MZM vs ADCS: Many of the people I talked with who worked with both Wilkes and Wade said that Wilkes didn’t even pretend to do the work. That’s why he needed to develop a new business front — or cutout. MZM got the contracts. But MZM would sub a lot of the “work” to ADCS. This was a way for Wilkes to continue to make money off the Defense budget even though he had been discredited. In this case, the subbing largely meant that Wade wrote big checks to Wilkes after the government paid him on the contract. It is true that Wade put a huge emphasis on getting people with clearances and getting clearances upgraded. He allegedly abused the process terribly toward that end. It was what allowed him to go after the intel contracts.
George @ 84
Duke’s parents were actually registered Democrats. They switched party affiliation to vote for him.
As investigative reporters what assignments are you most drawn to, and conversely which would you rather turn your backside to? Or more to the point, how much does your employer dictate your investigations?
Was MZM running the RNC servers?
Silly, but interesting that both the Cunningham scandal and the Abramoff scandal involve boats.
I’m not very far into the book yet, but it’s striking how arrogant Cunningham has always been. He was a very good pilot, but refused to believe another pilot was able to shoot his plane. The attempt to demand (@??@@?) he be awarded the Medal of Honor. He bordered on delusional for a very long time.
He must have been thrilled when the Bush administration came to power, since they’re as arrogant and delusional as he is. None of them believe the rules apply to them.
chris @ 86
That’s true. Cunningham himself was a democrat until he said he got angry at LBJ over the war. Shelbina, Mo., where he grew up, was so Democratic that it even went for Adlai Stevenson over Ike.
Marc @ 86
Alphabet soup clearances is a self reinforcing scam on contracting as the same bodies and companies get the contracts cuz they’ve got the papers. New clearances take forever so they go with what they already got.
I don’t know if MZM was handling RNC servers. I’ve seen no evidence or even heard any rumors. Is there speculation along those lines? Do you know something we don’t know?
Can servers fit on boats?
We have a lot of freedom to investigate and follow our curiosity. But at the end of the day, the news desk at the Union-Tribune decides what goes in the paper.
smallg @ 88
In a small bureau everybody has to be an “investigative” journalist. We each have other duties. Marc is the news editor of the bureau and is the one who actually makes the assignments. I have a hand in that as well as bureau chief. Plus I cover politics. You need a mix of assignments. But there is a danger when covering the White House of spending too much time as more of a stenographer than a reporter and you have to guard against that. Plus, in a bureau our size you have to look for stories that the papers are not getting from the wire services and NYT.
To LS: Servers on boats. I love that. It reminds me that Wilkes set up a special ADCS account to stock the Kelly C and Duke-Stir. One of the things provided was a laptop.
TheGris @ 70
If MZM was initially contracted to handle OVP’s mail security and/or office furniture, doesn’t it naturally follow that they would provide the personnel to fill those office chairs? Considering how Cheney set up an entirely separate Intel branch in which he stovepiped all the Iraqi intel directly to himself! I think congressional scrutiny of the initial contract could pay off in spades for Cheney!
Besides his war hero background, Duke won elections because he aligned with the “religious right.” San Diego was a testing ground. Conservative christians were running without really identifying that their agenda was to just get as many as possible elected and eventually be able to influence policy. They won a whole ton of seats on things like local water boards. Many of the people elceted had never even been to a water board meeting and hadn’t a clue.
Duke was a huge gay basher especially at election time.
forgive my ignorance. Is the SDUnion-Trib a McClatchey paper?
BigMitch @ 100
No, it’s a Copley paper.
George @ 96
That sounds very similar to some things I heard from the Knight Ridder reporters who have been all over the USA purge story–the regional familiarity, the need to find stories not covered by the big papers…
You’d think big media might learn a lesson from that…
CTuttle @ 98
Henry Waxman is scrutinizing that first contract. But the WH seems to be dragging its feet on answers. Some of you might know better than I where things stand. I’ll check this week.
Marc @ 103
Last I checked (with a friend with ties to the committee) they did get enough to be happy. Pity nothing was released–usually Waxman is so good with that.
I’m also curious if you heard much about the work MZM got on the Robb Silbermann report. What was the stated service?
Marc @ 93
No rumors, I was just wondering…
Just got here but has anyone asked about hwat happened to the Hookergate aspects of the Foggo affair. It all just seemed to disappear into the ether.
emptywheel @ 104
The other report I want to see released is the one done by the House Intelligence Committee, which had an independent counsel look at how Cunningham used the Intel Committee staff to handle the intel earmarks. Jane Harman released the executive summary but there is an unclassified portion that still has not be released, as far as I am concerned. The dems are holding onto it now that they control the chamber. tsk tsk.
Hugh @ 107
TeddySanFran @ 35
emptywheel @ 105
I don’t have any info on that. But would welcome it.
emptywheel @ 104
Do you think Henry holding those cards close to his chest, or, do you sense there’s nothing there?
Hugh @ 107
…and any Eric Cantor/ Virgil Goode connections? please!
Marc @ 108
I was reminded of that when I read the book. I wonder whether that was part of the goal of removing Harman–to make sure the black program info never got exposed.
Hugh @ 107
Getting corroboration on that was very, very hard. We got a lot of second and third hand info from the very beginning. But we have not been able to nail it. The prosecutors provided wonderful detail about Wilkes hiring prostitutes for Cunningham in Hawaii. See details in the book if you don’t have the court records.
Dru @ 112
We don’t have anything on Cantor but we have a meaty part of a chapter on Goode.
CTuttle @ 111
Tough to say. It could be that it is classified enough–or they didn’t get enough–to make it possible to release.
But I also worry that the Dems are afraid to take on Cheney directly.
emptywheel @ 113
Maybe, but… there never was a warm and fuzzy relationship between Harman and Pelosi.
emptywheel @ 116
I have asked certain Democrats in the House to go after the intel report and they have come back empty-handed. So there is some reason it is being held tight, tight, tight.
Marc @ 114
Since we’re talking about prostitutes…
I was struck that Marc brought up Charlie Wilson’s War in his first interview of Cunningham. When I read about the prostitutes, I could only think of Charlie Wilson. He was involved in the parties, wasn’t he (having read Crile’s book, I can’t imagine Wilson would miss them)?
I’m wondering how much his own lobbying efforts are tied into this network of earmarking.
Hugh @ 107
2200 pages of DC Madam phone records must have some new info.
George @ 101
The reason I asked if the Union-Tribune was a McClatchey paper relates to something I noted The scoop on Don Young:
But this influence has a price. All of the Washington bureau reporters for these papers know that their subjects will read what they write. The cost of pissing off these insiders might be paid in restricted access. And so, the nation goes to war based on the uncritical reporting of folks like Judith Miller.
But McClatchy (f/k/a Knight-Ridder) doesn’t have to play that game. John Walcott, a skeptical reporter of the run-up to the war explains it this way on Bill Moyer’s Journal:
And so, they can afford to dig deeper and question the official line.
Apparently, this applies to Copley papers, too.
Excellent; I have some catching up to do, Thanks!
Hugh @ 107
Interestingly, my local rag, covered the FBI questioning of the escorts, provided to Foggo/etc while they were vacationing here on the Big Isle! Pretty pathetic coverage I might add, since, they didn’t disclose the names of the Service and/or the independent ‘reps’!!! I had to read in the unsealed indictments, and , they never followed up on it when it became public knowledge!!!
emptywheel @ 74
Marc and George–
I looks like folks are just tuning in at the end of their Sundays–but I want to thank both of you for joining us. I really enjoyed getting the opportunity to talk to you about the book.
George and I want to thank FDL for inviting us to do this. And thank the community for great questions. We’ve really enjoyed it but have to run at 7 eastern. So pop us your final questions.
Emptywheel,
Charlie Wilson frequented the parties at the Watergate and later the Westin. We had several interviews with him for the book. He defends earmarks. But he adds something interesting, I think, even though we have never reported it, not even in the book. He said he had to use earmarks to get money for the mujahideen in Afghanistan back in the 1980s because there wasn’t public support for that effort or even support within the CIA. But, he notes, there is a lot of public support and support in the administration for the war on terror. So he would not need to do today what he did then, he notes. The Cunningham scandal shows us that a lot of the earmarking today is blatant profiteering rather than policy kibitzing.
Eureka Springs @ 120
Different prostitutes but I was also in the poker aspects and how that could be used to launder money and bribes: “Huh, what? I won it at poker.”
Any follow up on David A. Burtt II and Joseph Hefferon leaving CIFA. Is law enforcement looking at them?
And was Deborah Yang’s jump serendipity or wingnut welfare?
Thanks Marc and George! This was great.
Thaks – and do come back again.
emptywheel @ 125
I’ll second that notion!!! 8-)
emptywheel @ 125
Thanks so much for all the good comments, even a few ledes that may help in future stories. Bloggers did have a hand in this story and made an important contribution. And it’s a story that has a way to go before reaching its end. Thanks.
With regards to the anthrax scare, why was it always assumed that anthrax tainted mail had come into the Congress mail system, instead of anthrax laced mail had gone out of Congress mail system?
Thank you both very much! Look forward to reading the book.
ccmask @ 131
Weren’t there 2 anthrax letters sent TO Leahy and Daschle?
My thanks too, very interesting.
wow, this was just great! wonderful.
thanks emptywheel, and Marc and George
Jane is upstairs fyi. This was really interesting,thanks so much for doing this everyone.
TheOtherWA @ 133
Thanks Marc & George! Great thread and I wish listed your book.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
And “earmarks” are just a snapshot within the photo album of the “vast right-wing conspiracy” and their stated goal of establishing and maintaining a permanent Republican majority in our country.
Think of the United States as the “turf” being fought over by rival gangs in a “turf war.”
The Republican gang suffered a major setback in this “turf war” during the Nixon years, which was actually the low-point in Republican aspirations since they’d suffered setback after setback since the FDR years.
Following Nixon’s disgrace, certain Young Republicans plotted their next scheme for winning the “turf wars” with the goal completely dominating and subjugating America.
Since liberal Democratic Party policies, especially since FDR, tended to put more money into the pockets of everyday U.S. citizens, then the Republican Party strategy would be to line the pockets of “loyal” conservative Republicans, and even some “loyal” conservative Democrats, redirecting taxpayer money “earmarked” to help a vast majority of U.S. citizens into “earmarks” for only helping “the few, the proud, the greedy.”
Which is where America stands now. Which is a summation of every policy, both domestic and foreign, of the Bush and Cheney administration, and the “culture of corruption” Republicans in Congress and even on the Supreme Court. Which is why Bush must veto the legislative expansion of the Children’s Health Insurance Program, because unless this taxpayer money is going to their crony Republican pals, those in their inner-circle of “the few, the proud, the greedy,” then in their strange (and very un-American) way of thinking, this is a total waste of taxpayer money. Which is also why Bush and Cheney, and “culture of corruption” Republicans, keep calling for permanent tax breaks and tax cuts for “the few, the proud, the greedy” at the top economic levels of our society.
It is all part and parcel of the same Republican scheme hatched several decades ago, after Nixon, by certain Republican gangsters who have a “win at any cost” attitude in what they consider to be a “turf war” for who controls America.
George @ 60
As you say the relationship with SA was long-standing, so some knowledge of their Wahabbism should’ve existed.
Also, way back in the ’80s Oliver North told Congress the most dangerous man in the world was Osama bin Laden. If they didn’t learn about Wahabbism soon after that, then they really weren’t doing their job very well.
No, I think most in the Senate knew and plans were made accordingly.
emptywheel @ 113
Cunningham – pilot in Nam
Black programs – earmarks run amok?
San Diego — temp home to 2 9/11 guys
Dusty Foggo — CIA connection?
Any FBI connection to all this? The 9/11 guys stayed with an FBI informant.
Are there any private CIA-like firms in America? in the San Diego area?
MarkH @ 141
The North-bin Laden claim is an Urban Legend, widely spread by right-wing talk radio.
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blnorth.htm