It's been a sad, sad spectacle to watch Republicans beating Democrats bloody in Congress - in both the House and the Senate, but most especially in the Senate. In the last two months Congressional approval numbers have dropped from from 48% amongst Democrats to 27% and almost no bills have been passed. The most significant bill to pass was the supplemental, which by itself caused a 10% drop in Democrats ratings in a single week - a huge down draft.
Democratic leaders continue to talk about how they want to govern, while Republicans continue to let nothing pass if they can avoid it. The continued talk of "making Congress work for Americans" is simply a pathetic wish for a world that no longer exists, a world in which both parties put aside partisan rancor for the best of the country; a world in which comity doesn't mean "date rape"; a world in which Republicans are good faith actors.
Republicans, as Krugman has observed, are a revolutionary power. They do not accept the legitimacy of the bipartisan non-parliamentary form of government that ruled the US for most of the post-war period. They do not accept that all three branches of government are co-equal. They do not believe that everyone has to obey the law. They are in Washington to get what they want, and if they can't get it they will bring the entire machine to a shreeking halt.
The Republicans in general, and the Bush administration in particular really have only strategy - they always, always, give the other side nothing of any significance. They never cooperate, they never admit a lie, they never back down unless forced to do so. They understand only the most primal of motivations - fear and force. If you can't force them to do something; if you can't make them fear the consequences of not doing something, they won't do it.
This is a very powerful strategy. You've probably observed it in your life when you've seen a customer in a store scream until someone gives them what they want (or calls the cops). You've seen it from people in power - from cops who will beat you bloody because they know they can get away with it and know if you fight back, you're screwed. In schools kids will use it with teachers, knowing that the teachers aren't allowed to use force anymore. Just do whatever you want - what's the teacher going to do? In business just lock your employees in the store (Wal-mart) or just dock wages whether it's legal or not. What are they going to do?
The idea is to find a strategy which you can pursue unilaterally - where there is a benefit for you and where the cost to the other side to resist is more than they're willing to bear. It's an excellent strategy in pure terms of benefits - when it works.
There's an example of where it hasn't worked for Republicans. That example isn't in America, where it almost always has worked, but in Iraq. The insurgency is a problem where just saying "we won't negotiate and we're going to run your country" didn't work. Insurgents said "we can bear the costs of making this strategy not work for you, longer than you can and we're willing to do so. We will take 3 times your losses in order to win in the end. The cost does not matter to us. The key here is that what worked in Iraq against Republicans was essentially thier own strategy. When dealing with bad actors of this sort, the only reply to them is to use their own tactics - and to kick it up a notch.
The strategy breaks down the same way playing a game of chicken does. It breaks down when someone else is crazier or tougher than you are.
This is how you deal with bullies and thugs - you break them. There is no other way - you can't "reason" with them. They are not 9 year olds who need a "time out" or whom you can sit down with and say "that's not nice". They are adults who respond only to force and to fear - who obey only when broken.
It's also a problem of limited-timeframe rationality - which is to say, on each fight, Democrats decide "well, this fight isn't worth it, the benefits of fighting like hell are outweighed by the pain and the cost. So we won't do it." Do that every fight, or almost all (Social Security being a rare exception) and pretty soon you've got a long term pattern.
What you have to do is "get crazy" and decide you don't care what the cost is, you're going to make every fight one that hurts them as much as you can, no matter how much it hurts you. What you have to do is make examples of people - pick targets and destroy them utterly.
This sort of "craziness" is actually very rational - but it's the sort of rationality that the "reasonable adults" in the Democratic party, who want to make things work, who value comity and politeness for thier own sakes, suck at.
Let's give a couple current examples. The first deals with the problem of enforcing subpoenas. The Justice department has made clear it won't enforce Congressional subpoenas if the administration claims executive privilege. The response should be to invoke "inherent contempt" and to do it against someone prominent. My choice would be Gonzales. From Wikipedia:
Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited for contempt is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subject to punishment that the House may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment reasons, imprisonment for coercive effect, or release from the contempt citation.)
Concerned with the time-consuming nature of a contempt proceeding and the inability to extend punishment further than the session of the Congress concerned (under Supreme Court rulings), Congress created a statutory process in 1857. While Congress retains its "inherent contempt" authority and may exercise it at any time, this inherent contempt process was last used by the Senate in 1934, against a U.S. Postmaster]. After a one-week trial on the Senate floor (presided by the Vice-President of the United States, acting as Senate President), a former Postmaster, McCracken (The Postmaster-General was[ Jim Farley)][1] was found guilty and sentenced to 10 days imprisonment.
The Postmaster had filed a petition of Habeas Corpus in federal courts to overturn his arrest, but after litigation, the US Supreme Court ruled that Congress had acted constitutionally, and denied the petition in the case Jurney v. MacCracken, 294 U.S. 125 (1935). [2]
The advantage of inherent contempt is that it's something Congress can do without ever refering to the Justice Department. There is no counter-move except to attempt to get the Supreme Court to overthrow it. And Kennedy (the only Justice whose opinion is in question) might well not side with the other right wing justices on it.
The second example is the "filibuster". In the Senate as it stands right now, if there aren't 60 votes, a bill is "considered" filibustered. But that's a nicety - it's a kindness so that Senators don't have to get out the diapers and the phone books and actually stay on the floor 24/7. What the Republicans have been doing is "filibustering" everything, then turning around and claiming that Democrats are the "do nothing Congress". The response is to make it clear who's holding everything up.
Make them physically filibuster. Choose a very popular bill (say drug reimportation from Canada), put it up straight with nothing else attached, and make them go 24/7. The news cycle will be dominated by the filibuster. Nobody will be talking about anything else but how Republicans are filibustering to make old people pay more for drugs (or whatever other "mom and apple pie" issue you choose.) I would personally put film in the can of old folks talking about how they have to eat dog food to pay for their meds, and start running ads which juxtapose "Old folk in horrible distress" then ask "And what does Senator McCain think of this" and show 15 seconds of him reading from a phone book. Note that you get ready to do ad buys not just because it hammers the message home, but because you know that media coverage may be unfavorable to you and you are prepared to get around the filter - you are not putting yourself at the mercy of other actors - including actors in the media.
There are two ways to deal with bad faith actors; to dealing with people who understand only force. One is to decide you're willing to let them have what they want because you won't pay the cost of opposing them. If they say "I'm going to hit you if you don't give me your wallet" you can say "ok". The second is to escalate. In the words of the Untouchables - if they bring a knife, you bring a gun; if they put one of yours in the hospital, you put one of theirs in the morgue. When people understand only force, you must respond with maximum force. Anything else is taken as weakness and they will walk all over you.
Republicans walk all over Democrats because they can - because they know Democrats, at the end of the day, will fold nine times out of ten. It's a good odds play. If Democrats want it to stop, they need to make the cost unbearable. Civility will return only when the costs of what amount to political violence have become to great for both sides to bear.
Slap Gonzales in jail. Make Republican Senators personally spend days or weeks doing nothing but filibuster popular bill after popular bill. Make them stay on the floor, in their diapers, with artificial bladders attached, until they can't take it any more.
And if you do all this, Americans will see that
- Democrats are strong. (Strength isn't about how tough you talk on killing terrorists. It's about what you do personally. Strength is what strength does.)
- that Republicans are causing Congressional slowdowns and making it so Congress doesn't work to pass bills most Americans favor.
- That if Americans want Congress to work, Democrats need a filibuster proof majority in the Senate and a working majority in the House.
When someone's bargain strategy is "or else", you can either back down or step up.
It's time for Democrats to step up.
(Ian writes also for The Agonist.)
Login Here
Spotlight



Support this site!
Keep
up with news
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search


RSS/XML Feed
AZed!
Whoo Hoo! First time! And it’s an Ian post, too!
“It’s time for Democrats to step up.”
Yes it is.
That would be fun to watch: the House Sergeant at Arms facing M1 tanks and AC-130 gunships. Bring along some popcorn.
Come on Democrats. Let’s kick some GOP butt!
wtf are the Dems scared of? Most of the country wants this madness to stop,so what the hell is the damned problem?
That Untouchables analogy is spot on too.
boy howdy!
The only way to beat them is to stop treating them like worth oponents and treat them like the corrupt criminals they are. Don’t take any crap from the goopers and don’teet them control the agenda.
nabalzbffr @ 4
Not sure if you were tongue in cheek, but one of my friends, Oldman, used to observe “you have to be able to count the guns before you start a fight”. Back in 2003/2004 the army would have obeyed such an order.
Today - even odds they wouldn’t. It’s an odd thing to say but the only good thing to come out of the Iraq war, imo, is that it has broken the Republican lock on the military - which scared me more than almost any other domestic polical concern in the US.
George Bush is a pantie-waste.
EPUing myself - Self, what is the sound of Freedom?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qezM-Ly5dYM
First thing is to get Harry Reid out of a leadership role. Joe Lieberman has made Reid his personal bitch; everyone else sees that and knows that Reid is a pushover. Put Pat Leahy in charge.
Man, I took a nap and I woke up pi**ed off!!!
I have had it. Not had enough…Had it!!
anangryoldbroad @ 6
Few problems.
1) They’ve been beaten up for years. It takes time to overcome that learned helplessness.
2) some of them are genuine conservatives. They aren’t crazy, which is why they aren’t Repbulicans, but they are conservative.
3) They live in fear. They really do fear the President’s bully pulpit. I hear this all the time from insiders and I find it truly bizarre - but it appears to be true.
4) They think that not going full-Rambo (pro use of military force at the drop of the hat) is a sign of weakness. They don’t understand that Republicans aren’t seen as strong primarily because they are the “military” party, but primarily because they act strong.
5) They really do value comity and the traditions of the Senate and so on. They really don’t believe in being truly nasty. They remember the old days and they want them back, and they think if they act fairly - if they act towards Republicans as they wish Republicans had acted towards them, that Republicans will reciprocate. They don’t seem to get that the rules have changed and that the route back to civility is not civility.
It was bad enough that the Republicans were allowed to frame every issue when the Dems were a minority. Why is that still the case? Is it because they have nothing comparable to the right-wing propaganda juggernaut, a lack of consensus, a lack of political courage, party leaders who are nitwits, or all of the above?
Hi Ian,
this is a wonderful post. How can we get the Democrats to toughen up?
Ian Welsh @ 8
Exactly. It’ll never happen
Exhibit A
Exhibit B
The PR hit even for the Bushies would be their “have you no decency” moment. The twenty percenters who still drink the kool-aid would be drastically reduced, probably into the single digits
I think the topic should be the Iraq war timeline. Harry Reid has the power if he chooses to use and he should use it and hold the Senate in session in August with nothing on the agenda but the Iraq war and force Toothless Mitch to keep talking and keep voting. Show the American voters just how much he really hates the troops.
By god, I just don’t understand it.
I could forgive, to a degree, Kerry’s failure to recognize that the Republicans he faced were not merely his hard-line political opposition, but a criminal gang of anti-Constitutional thugs.
Later on, too late for the Presidency, but, oh well, I felt like he started to catch on.
Now how in hell the Democratic Congress can have lived in the minority since 1994 and watching the sheer unbridled lawlessness and criminal conspiracy which is the Reagan-spawned Republican Party, and still act like they are a decent opposition and not a dangerous crew of demented nation-destroyers, I just don’t know.
I just don’t freaking get it.
How do so many Democratic politicians sit there staring a lawless crew of thugs and Constitution haters at work every single day, and every single day resolve to give those Republicans every political advantage possible?
I just… don’t… freaking… get it.
When in God’s name will they learn that “Americans” (and by that I mean the vast majority of America outside my own bizarrely right wing “South”) do not hate liberals and liberalism — they hate wimps and cowards!
I. Just. Don’t. Freaking. Get. It.
There is at least one thing I, the voters, and the GOP share. And that is a respect for ’strength’. I am not interested in a learning curve with respect to strength (principle) and my party, the Democratic Party.
All of this is about Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and his Neocons, and Bush the puppet, accomplishing a coup of our country!!!
I am really, really angry at the Democrats that are failing to step up and Impeach Gonzo, Cheney, and Bush!!!
Pelosi and Reid are yellow-bellied chicken sh##ts!!
You nailed it, Ian. Do you think that Harry Reid is willing to lead in the way you suggest?
Nancy Pelosi needs to clearly state that impeachment is back ON the table. Will she?
What will become of Harriet Meyers? Will the Democrats follow up in a forceful way on the contempt charge?
You’re right. As long as the dems maintain their non chordate position they are going to be stepped on by McConnel and co. They have to club back and be merciless. The country HAS to see who is fighting for what’s right and who is evil.
This constant anger and no action is getting to me.
How can we get them to hear us?
First thing Monday morning, Nancy Pelosi ought to call the entire House to order and show them last night’s Bill Moyer’s show.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour.....watch.html
Then call for a vote on impeachment.
Maybe we need to give Pelosi and Reid a freakin’ deadline - oh, yeah, they are missing the deadline.
Impeach the Criminals Now!!!
LS @ 12
LS, We have been on the same page all week!
Ian, This is another fantastic post.. Honestly it could run once a day until the war crimes trials begin as far as I am concerned.
How do I get this on a T-shirt? *g*
Ian Welsh @ 13
my idea of civility doesn’t require being a door mat. they are confusing civility with passivity.
I feel like a hostage in my own country. Held by the very Democrats I worked so hard to elect.
LS @ 10
I am an unhappy Democrat.
Some of these comments are pleasing. ;0)
Forgive please this O/T question:
Did anyone see the Network news last p.m.? If so was there any mention of this:
Oklahoma kiddo @ 30
I’m unhappy, and disappointed, dejected, dispirited, and working my way to spittin’ mad.
Enough is enough. No more playing nice, no more positioning for the ‘08 elections. It is long past time to impeach both Bush and Cheney. The abuses of power, combined with the inexplicable arrogance of an administration that hasn’t seen the sunny side of 30% in close to a year, is simply too much for this country to bear.
There has to be a groundswell for impeachment, and let it begin with the blogs. The MSM simply will not take up the cry; they have too much invested in the status quo. PLEASE, while you folks (Christy, Jane, Marcy) are at DKos, make the pitch for a united front for impeachment. Bang the gong every day, twice a day, until we attain critical mass.
BigMitch @ 32
Yes. I saw that.
Elliott @ 33
;0)
I forget who said it last night on Moyers show..
Something near the following.
Congress is treating (or sheltering) the people as if they were children.
snowbird42 @ 23
Recall that the one time Reid used the old GOP rules to keep the GOP from presenting amendment after amendment, the GOP went on camera en masse saying how dreadful and unfair the Dems were. The media showed it all, without reminding viewers that this was SOP in the Senate for the previous 12 years. The Dems aren’t just fighting ruthless and two faced opponents in Congress, they have to fight the media, too.
“I support the Left…but I’m leaning to the Right.”
—-Cream, “Politician”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhdWhxr8b08
Are many Democrats beholden to corporate interests? I suspect that they are. Their timid behavior stands as evidence. Perhaps half of them suck the corporate teat so much that they will not fight for the people.
Of course, the repugs are totally corrupt.
Today, I watched the Ladybird Johnson funeral. Listening to Luci Baines Johnson speak to her mother was so incredibly poignant.
Attending the funeral were President Carter and Roslyn; President Bill Clinton and Hillary;….but…..no…….the Ex-Governor of Texas, the fake Prezdinent of the UUUUUnited States of Amerka - King George, was not there. He sent Miss Laura. President King George W’s father George was not present (but that could be due to other problems) - however, Babs was there and she was totally ignored BTW…
How despicable and disrespectful for King George of the Ex-USA not to attend the funeral of a First Lady? How would W feel if the President of the United States didn’t show up for such an occasion for First Lady Laura Bush? Oh, yeah…that’s right…he doesn’t feel.
Makes me sick.
Eureka Springs @ 27
Know what you mean.
So what kind of play is the Tillman v White House privilege story getting? any traction there?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 35
You saw it on Network news??
Eureka Springs @ 37
John Nichols, author of “The Genius of Impeachment” and writer for Nation.
BigMitch @ 44
Is that the “I’m not going to take it anymore!!!” Network News? /s
Elliott @ 43
That’s what I am trying to determine.
Eureka Springs @ 37
It was John Nichols of The Nation magazine. I, for one, am tired of being treated like a child. I can handle the difficult task of watching an impeachment.
BigMitch @ 44
It does not show up in a scan of either CNN’s or BBC’s RSS feeds (Tillman - 0 hits. Executive privilege - 2 hits, about Taylor & Meirs, and the reaction).
Wonderful post Ian! I have been saying the same things (less eloquently) for awhile and have had minimal response from my Dem friends. (i won’t say what response my Repub friend(s) gave.)
However, I’ve found myself less often invited to parties and gatherings over the last year. Can I assume that you have experienced the same?
The path seems so clear to me. Throw the bums in jail while passing on the left. Are the Dems looking for the lost Gold on the “right” side of the street because there’s “more light there?” What a bunch of “ball-less wonders!”
But the Ds AREN’T strong. They’re weak, weak, weak. Imagine chosing Harry Ried as a leader–looks like he’s scared of his own shadow and you can hardly hear his voice even when he’s mic-ed. I’m so disgusted with this crowd I could spit. They’ve lost the public & have NO way of regaining it.
It is all too convenient that after gut feelings and all those “It’s Quaeda stupid”s from WH, a video with a Osama BL clip surfaces. It has been “intercepted”(!!), or, possibly, created by someone else than OBL group? So let’s see what follows, and if congressional majorities will matter at all. It is a dim view, yes.
Ian, I think the three I’s should be the Dem’s mantra; 1) Impeachment should be started, 2) Inherent contempt should be used, and 3) Iraq time line Senate physical filibuster is necessary!!!
We can talk and talk (and we will, we will) but the question remains: How do we get Sen. Reid and the rest of them to listen? I’ve already emailed my Dem Senator Mary Landrieu saying, make them filibuster for real. I’ll keep repeating that too. But what else can we do? I’m thinking of writing a polite but angry letter, following Trex’s excellent instructions, and hand delivering it to her New Orleans office on Monday. Might not only have more impact, but it gets around the anthrax screening delay too.
I won’t bother with my other senator. I think Mr. Vitter has other things on his mind.
I’m Mad as Hell!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;search=
Hey, Ian, how is it you know so much about how our Congress works? I didn’t know about inherent contempt, and I live here. Anyhow, great article.
I’ve been reading quite a few opinions like this in the last few days. You’d think Harry Reid would start to catch on, but I think he can be a slow learner when he wants to.
Steve T. @ 54
Most certainly! Don’t chop it off!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A39J32gPxU
The Dems have BAGS. Battered-Ass Gop Syndrome. They are in the depression stage where they are unable to take any independent action so that they can escape their abuse. They just keep getting slapped & slapped and sometimes you think they allow it because they want you to see how bad they are treated. One day the BAGS will get so bad that they will have had it up to here and they will explode. It will case a ripple-effect on the floors of Congress. I think the explosion is coming shortly.
I’m Mad as Hell!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;search=Steve T. @ 54
Landrieu is hopeless. She is in Ted Steven’s pocket. She had to grovel to try to get funds for LA.
I had opponents in the cliched will contest–grown sons of my husband’s former marriage sued the daylights out of me. Head of Estates at Dewey Ballantine, my lawyer, advised me to compromise with them, even though they had no case. So I went a few rounds, and soon determined that my last compromise was their next starting position. Switched lawyers & just ground it out til the end. I didn’t get crazy back on them, but I did stand up to them. Was the only way. I also made them gin up more in legal bills than the settlement they got. Made ‘em pay for their craziness.
If you missed Howie’s Darcy Burner thread today (Like if you were taking a nap!) here’s what Karl Rove is up to now:
In the last few days of the campaign Rove operatives were calling every household in the district telling voters that Darcy was about to be indicted as a felon, that Darcy was suppressing minority voters and that Darcy was an investor in Big Oil. It was all smear and lies; typical Rovian tactics.
eCAHNomics @ 51
There was a press conference on cspan this week with Sheldon Whitehouse standing behind Leader Reed and I could tell by his body language alone that Whitehouse needed to be in Reids position. It’s time for Reid to take of the gloves, delegate, or step down, imo.
Loo Hoo. @ 24
Hiya all !!!
Loo Hoo, this is an excellent idea, everyone should call/e- mail/fax their congresscritters with this suggestion. The SJC is moving well, but the Dems need to slap the Repug Senators around (don’t get me started on Reid) to make them vote in accord with the wishes of the American people.
BigMitch @ 44
Actually I saw it here:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3375772
sonate @ 50
Without contradicting Ian in any way, let me say that your typical Congresscritter hears from a significant number of his Republican constituents regularly (as in weekly), as they are urged to do by their churches or organizations. But he / she hears regularly from very, very few Democratic constituents. If you want the service the GOP gets, you need to be a squeaky wheel. Weekly.
Their mail is slanted overwhelmingly Right. Their coverage on the news is slanted overwhelmingly Right. It has been, for years and years and years.
That’s why places like moveon.org are valuable. You may not agree with all they do, but because they’re organized, they begin to right the balance.
eCAHNomics @ 60
Kudos, Ma’am, Kudos!!! ;-)
LS @ 55
if only!
Petrocelli @ 63
(((Petro))))!!!
This is a very powerful post, Ian. The Marquis of Queensbury Rules are useless in a street fight. Time to fight fire with fire.
Loo Hoo. @ 61
Geeezzz…I’m already so freaking Grumpy!!! Now, I have to figure out how to go after Rove…again…Grrrrrrrrrrrr.
Thank you! You just did!!!!
Cujo359 @ 56
Reid, like Conyers is more intent on keeping his side in line … they should step aside and let more forceful Dems take control.
Webb and other aggressive Dems have been made to toe the line, instead of having them hammer away at the Repugs in their districts.
If I was Senate Majority Leader, I would do unto the Repugs exactly as the did unto the minority Dems !
Polls, polls, everywhere on the MSM…….spewing two second sound bites but no analysis. (Yeh, what else is new?)
Anybody at the Lake at the moment with linkies available to *respected* stats that show how such-and-such a poll breaks down to help w/understanding the reasonings for the continuing drop in Congress ratings? Not expressing this very well, I know. IOW, we are definitely mad at deecee Dems but scientifically WHY? Not saying I could understand such figures but surely would like to try.
There’s homemade vanilla ice cream gonna be ready for you guys in about half an hour. Caution: not for the calorie phobic. Other company coming as well so may have to check back later for any feedback.
Ian; good post. And they are definitely fearing the consequences of not doing something, as we speak. :o)
Of course, they are going to try to sneak up on it, and DO as little as possible, as they look for the price-point where the democrats who are sick of their shit-peddling, will pick up the dispenser and take most of the blame for the last act of the bloody sitcom that the GOP has produced and directed.
It’s what they do best, when the shit starts to come down on their heads.
“Just HOW little can we cop to what a miserable fuckup it was to invade and try to occupy Iraq? And is there ANY way that we can pin the fallout from it on the democrats?
WTF, let’s just TRY to string it out with half-assed “plans” for voluntary drawdowns that really do nothing except give us a fig-leaf to hide our scrofulous asses.”
The worst thing that the democrats are doing, and the reason that their numbers in congress are down, too, is not that THEY won’t “end it” (what a joke that is!) but that for some reason, they refuse to point out, with white-hot outrage, that the party and the president who are responsible for creating the shitmire, and whom can, at the LEAST, start bringing our troops home, with a stroke of his/their pens, have simply refused to do it, in the hope that most of the anger about the war will, in some warped, twisted, parallel universe, wind up on the democrats’ heads.
The longer they wait to join the dems for some real leash-jerking on bush, the harder it’s going to be. And, the harder the bargain the dems should drive, to let these turds climb in the “bipartisan” lifeboat with them.
Today, Maliki all but invited bushCo to leave. OUR msm may ignore that, but I don’t think the Brits will. Gordon Brown is going to face even tougher questions the next time he faces the MP’s.
The obvious next step is a majority vote to demand a fixed withdrawal date, by the Iraqi parliament, as they hide out in the Green Zone Motel.
When that happens, the price of playing media-nude-tap-dance poker around the gangplank entrance will take a LARGE jump, for republicans and for the yellow-dog democrats who are in bed with them to help protect bush and the borgs from having to eat the results of their corporate-viagra invasion.
The “fear” is growing as we post. Next comes “loathing”, on the part of more and more americans. They’re not confused about who should get most of the loathing, but the democrats need to be holding daily press-conferences with that phrase:
“…with the stroke of a pen…” repeated at least as often as “war on terrrr”.
ls at 41 says-in part-”Today, I watched the Ladybird Johnson funeral. Listening to Luci Baines Johnson speak to her mother was so incredibly poignant.”
i was thinking, seeing an old interview of luci baines, how articulate she is, and deeply emotional in her words……intellectual at the same time……..wow……and thought about the bush twins, not any of the above…….thought of amy carter, ANY kennedy, chelsea clinton, even the nixon offspring even the fords…..wow, what a contrast to the “entitled two”…….the difference of being from a family of intellect, that is socially conscious,
ls further says in part- ” How would W feel if the President of the United States didn’t show up for such an occasion for First Lady Laura Bush? “
i thought about what all lady bird did in the short time she was first lady, all of the people whose lives she affected, yes, a few bonehead things, but the good by far outweighs the bad……..and then i thought, what has laura done? *crickets* yeah, she cares about this country……and she’s been in the white house far longer than lady bird was……./s
Waccamaw @ 72
They make up the polls to fit the story.
ccmask @ 58
During the month of August while congress is on vacation?
BAGS Maybe we should send every D in DC an empty bag or some eye makeup.
CTuttle @ 68
Hey dude, how’ it goin’ in Paradise ?!!
IMHO, in the next few weeks we will see some progress with respect to the Democrats standing up to the criminals in the WH. All that has come out in the investigations of the firing of the prosecutors, the commutation of sentence, ignoring subpoenas … all this is building up and adding more fuel to the fire and more ammunition for the fight. We are not the only ones seething.
To quote Manuel Garcia O’Kelly Davis: “Throw rocks at ‘em! Damn it, big rocks! Hit ‘em hard!”
I pray that someday, the Dems will take this advice. Preferably before 2076.
Waccamaw! Where is this homemade ice cream of which you speak? I’m in Myrtle Beach. :o)
I have been against this up to this point but I would say it is time put an end to the filibuster or to severely limit the way it is being used.
Ian Welsh @ 8
I’m sure a small Secret Service detail would be sufficient to fend off any such idiotic move against Harriet Meiers by congressional Democrats. But I hope President Bush would go for some theatrical flair with tanks and gunships.
Petrocelli @ 63
Sorry, I put the wrong video up, so here’s the correct one: (I love selise!)
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour.....ofile.html
wangdangdoodle @ 69
.
or per above:
It’s time to fight fire with Greek Fire
eCAHNomics @ 60
The Repugs know that their leadership is morally bankrupt and the majority of Americans know this as well.
The Repugs are at the edge of the cliff and Reid is building them a F*cking bridge !!!
The Tillman article about executive privilege is n RawStory
“‘Executive privilege’ used to hold up Pat Tillman documents”
Also. I would say subpoena Rove and when he doesn’t show hold him in inherent Contempt and jail him.
Loo Hoo. @ 82 - and i love you too! *g*
but i’m mad as hell at congress!!
dmac @ 73
Her excuse is that she is truly oblivious and in lalaland I’m afraid, and I forgive her for that considering the despicable family she married into. At least she was there, and I did see her wipe away tears. She just doesn’t or can’t see what’s going on. Someone told W not to attend the funeral of a former First Lady. I have a problem with that. Clearing brush=good. Funerals=weakness. God. They are so callous.
I really like this post Ian. You outdid yourself.
whoooooo whoooooooooo
I agree!
I have been saying it for couple of weeks now, here and at Eschaton.
No vote. No Recess.
Troops get extended tour; Harry should make it an extended tour this summer for the Senate on withdrawal from Iraq.
What–Congress is going to go home for the summer just as the Iraqi Parliment is going home?
No way!
Make the goopers filibuster–diapers and cots and phone books and recipes.
No Vote-No Recess.
And stop letting the media talk about how the dems couldnt get the withdrawal or Webb amendment passed. They had the majority but the Roadblock Republicans stood in the way.
No Vote No Recess.
Waccamaw @ 72
Here’s a MediaMatters article that links to a bunch of polls.
In general, generic Dems are still well ahead of generic Repubs in all measures. That’s very different from approval of Congressional Dems. Don’t believe Candy Crowley when she spouts the Rove line that Dems are even worse off than Bush.
GordonM @ 65
Sadly true. I want to emphasize the bubble bit - if you’re in Washington:
1) most of the consultants are DLC/Third Way types. You have used them for years, or ifyou are new, you are forced to use them to get money from party organs. They give you talkign points, research and polls that are quite centrist/right. They argued for the war, and as Feingold has noted, they now don’t want to admit they were wrong about that, so they are still arguing that strongly opposing it is bad politics.
2) The people they interact with on a daily basis are pretty much all well off. Whatever else is the case, for them, America is working just fine - they’re making good money, have good jobs - indeed, in some ways, things have never been better.
3) The consensus political opinions in the bubble seem to be rather center/right to put it mildly.
4) and, as Gordon points out, both the calls they receive and the media they watch, slant right. (Fox may be egregious, but both CNN and MSNBC are right wing by any standards.)
America, to them, seesm to be mostly right leaning. And when they reeive polls that show otherwise, after years of being told “America is a right wing nation”, they don’t really believe it in their gut. They would have support, but many of them don’t feel that they do.
And again - many of them really are conservative. They don’t object to the war, as the war, they object to losing it, as just one example.
nabalzbffr @ 80
What would the jurisdiction of the Secret Service be here? Do they really have any?
Breaking- Reagan still dead.
Eureka Springs @ 62
Hey ES, how ya doin’ ?
Schumer or Feingold should be put in charge … leave Whitehouse to hammer them in the SJC … he is adept at that and a beaut to watch.
Petrocelli @ 76
Awesome, I saw George Lucas today in town!!! Other than that, it’s only another gorgeous day in Paradise!!! *g*
Eureka Springs @ 37
I think that it was John Nichols who said that.
I think that the Ds don’t realize that it’s not possible to compromise with these Rs. Not only must you defeat them, you must do it so thoroughly that they can’t regroup in our lifetimes. They have been building their power for decades and have wormed their way into all sorts of places where they must be found & rooted out. If that isn’t done, they’ll be back in power beforeyou know it. The Ds are not up to the task.
Cujo359 @ 56
I can’t really take the credit, until this week, I’d never heard of inherent contempt, but some lawyers and Congressional nerds I know (yeah, such things exist) have been talking it up as it has become clear that Justice probably won’t enforce any contempt charges.
LS @ 70
… waves to LS … long time no see !
Waccamaw @ 72
Here’s a decent poll:
http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.....24#comment
Brel1 @ 85
glenn posts on tillman today:
I’m beginning to think that Ron Paul could win, and that is almost alright with me.
Robert Wuhl, the actor (Arli$$), recently said on TV, “the Republicans want to win, the Democrats want to make a point.”
In today’s culture, most people don’t “do” nuance. They only respond to wins and losses. Maybe we Dems should be less afraid of losing and/or making mistakes. The huge gaffes the Rethugs make don’t seem to stop their momentum/message towards winning (even if it is at any cost).
Every time I have to listen to Harry Reid’s namby pamby presentation, it sets my teeth one edge. The people who need to really “hear” him will never get past “how” he speaks.
realworld @ 92
What? Harriet doesn’t live in the White House. You grab her and stick her in the Senate jail. At that point if the president wants to order the Secret Service to STORM the jail and free her…? Is that what you expect?
ccmask @ 93
Don’t believe it fora minute. He’s the hydra-headed monster, and has spawned uncountable monster’s since he got out of office.
Petrocelli @ 99
Hey Petro!!!! Wave’s back!!!
Brel1 @ 84
If I were in congress I would harp on this issue. All Americans were in awe of his courage.
I’d love to see Whitehouse lead the Senate. Or Feingold or Kerry. Reid is probably there because of the “rules”. I am so sick of the freaking rules in the Senate. They are not Constitutionally mandated, and need to come into the new century.
ccmask @ 58
Boy, do I ever hope you are right about “coming shortly”, because I’m thinking of calling the Arizona Corporation Commission (which handles utilities like gas and electric) and suggesting they hook me up to a generator of some sort.
The anger/rage I feel (because of the sense of helplessness at Congress’ inaction) could power a small city. Steam is coming out of my ears, and it should be put to SOME valuable use. Emails, calls, and faxes to committee chairs (my own gooper reps practically hang up on me these days) aren’t alleviating it so’s you could notice.
The utility company better get here fast, too. I’m sometimes so angry I think the steam coming out of my ears is going to back up and give me a stroke.
Petrocelli @ 94
Schumer? I’ll agree, when he decides to do something he’s pretty good at it. But his decision making is a real problem.
Loo Hoo. @ 110
I like seeing him do anything
Oops, forgot to say –
thank you, Ian, for a great post! Even if it does increase the blood pressure….
The way you lay it out sharply and crisply shows the undeniable force and logic of your argument.
JPL @ 108
Yes! This could be the issue to wake up the one’s that don’t realize what’s happening.
GordonM @ 110
I’m a NYer and I can’t bear Schumer. His book on the Baileys was beyond banal. He’s part of the problem, not part of the solution.
LS @ 70
http://images.google.com/imgre.....l&sa=G
and Harry Reid was supposedly a boxer when he was younger.
Bet he got the shit kicked out of him a lot.
CTuttle @ 95
Did he give you a light sabre, huh … did he … did he … huh ?!! *g*
CCmask:
“breaking: Reagan still dead.” :o)
But the servo-mechanism implants are being readied, as we click. :o)
Mrs. K8 @ 111
Me too! I was outside feeding the critters and I smelled smoke! I thought it was me!!
BigMitch,
Tillman story was on page A3 of today’s WaPo0. KO covered at top of Countdown lat night and promised more in depth on Monday. MSNBC had it prominent of their web site last night.
It WILL maintain traction as it’s something simple that the 60%ers not paying attention can and will grasp.
“WH stonewalling documents on NFL star who gave it up for the Army and KIA by friendly fire.”
THAT’S the type of story that has legs.
Ian Welsh @ 104
Of course President Bush would not wait for Harriet to be kidnapped by the congressional Democrats! He could preempt them in various ways. He could invite her to stay at the White House. Or put her in the witness protection program.
Loo Hoo. @ 117
That looks just like me!!!
eCAHNomics @ 97
Hear Hear … the Repugs have to be humiliated … the Dems don’t realize how weak bullies truly are … the blogs have to generate the outrage that reaches every Dem in Congress.
Ian Welsh @ 104
I wouldn’t put it past them at this point.
jayt @ 119
It’s hard to imagine him a boxer with that quiet manner of his; and in the Senate, he sure appears weak to me.
And, Ian nailed it; a lot of the “patriots” who, in their frustration are dissing congress mightily, didn’t and don’t object to the war; they just object to LOSING it.
What is stuck in my mind from the Moyers thing last night is:
I know this is the question that has preoccupied the Lake for some time now, and especially the last couple of days, but — What did Jefferson expect us to do?
sonate @ 50
My suspicion is that your Dem friends are in denial — they have so HOPED for change with the ‘06 election success that they don’t feel strong enough emotionally to handle the really, really bad depressing reality.
And I understand that impulse. I feel it myself, but am ultimately not willing to lie to myself about what’s going on to give myself some phony sense of emotional “security.”
And denial won’t work with your Dem friends either, IMO. Democrats are not, as a rule, as deeply devoted to living with cognitive dissonance as the price to pay for their ideology as the Goopers so evidently are. Something deep inside just KNOWS the truth, and will keep you tossing and turning at night for however long it takes you to acknowledge it consciously.
Cujo359 @ 123
He wouldn’t do that anyway. He’d just spirit her out of the country.
You have to watch this!!!! Betty Boop…er Nancy Pelosi…check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi6hoSCHfw0
Jane (nyc) @ 103
I can overlook his “Clark Kent meets Gandhi” impression … what I find revolting is his apologist manner … if he would state the facts as vehemently as he announced that HoJo was his BFF, the Dems would have progressed much further along their stated goals.
Eureka Springs @ 76
my dream… an August Surprise…
no congressional break… damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead
Slightly OT: But this new Luger/Warner amendment smells like a very dangerous trap. It seems like the best way to handle it might be to allow debate, then offer an amendment to it that would really fix it and them force the thugs to really filibuster it. That way it really looks like they just are the my way or the highway obstructionists they really are.
2 Things:
1. Jane was interviewed in the Wall Street Journal today.
2. Ian is right on the money. In particular, I am astonished that Democrats are not forcing the Republicans to actually filibuster, to the point where diapers are necessary and, more importantly, to the point where every citizen in this country can see that the Republicans are the party of obstruction.
Elliott View this users Facebook profile says
July 14th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
It’s hard to imagine him a boxer with that quiet manner of his; and in the Senate, he sure appears weak to me.
Ya gotta be careful of the quiet guys.
With the exception of Harry.
ccmask
In an earlier thread you mentioned that spook in the machine had a new post up. I hadn’t seen his blog until today and want to read the series. I realized that it went from part i to part 3. Any clues as to why? I don’t want to miss any of the series.
Thanks for any insight.
GordonM @ 110
Feingold would be an excellent spokesperson / leader. Schumer, not so much.
peterboy @ 89
Great plan. Let’s go to work on that.
GordonM @ 65
I’m still willing to call, but I must say that McCain’s, Kyl’s, and that scumbag Rep. Shadegg’s staffers still treat me with only the barest facsimile of phony courtesy before they hang up as quickly as they can.
Jane (nyc) @ 103
BTW, how is EE doing ? My offer for private meditation classes is still open, if she wants more info. see my Facebook wall.
Yoga/meditation really helps during the treatment phase and also makes recovery faster.
I want to hear the republicans tremble and say,
“What kind of rabble rousery is this?”
Petrocelli @ 116
No, Indiana Jones’ Bull Whip!!! ;-)
Best fucking post in months. Good job.
I don’t think the Dem leadership fear is irrational.
1) They don’t have the votes for a contempt citation in the Senate and they may already know they don’t have the votes in the House.
2) They are afraid of a legal challenge because they have serious reason to believe that Kennedy is now a permanent member of the 5-4 majority.
If #2 is the reality, there might be a rational for not giving SCOTUS the opportunity to validate the Unitary Exec. Hold the line until after the election might be the best move.
We need a new LBJ to lead the Dems in the Senate, but with all of the rule changes since his time, the power may be gone from the leadership position.
All that said, with our Country going over the cliff, the Dems should stop treating the Repubs with civility and treat them like the criminals that they are. There is also no reason for Waxman, Conyers or Leahey not to tell each lying Republican that a Grand Jury will be waiting for them in the future.
On second thought, President Bush wouldn’t even need to detail Secret Service agents to protect Harriet Meiers. Some mean Blackwater contractors would do the job just as well.
The Candy Crowley’s of the world don’t seem to understand that solid Dems are mad at Congress for not going after Bush & Co. harder…not because of “too many investigations”. I used to consider myself a bluedog Democrat, not now, I’ve been radicalized.
I disapprove of Congress for not standing up to the misdeeds of Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, Rove, etc.
I’m NEVER going to vote for a Republican again and will back the most aggressive, progressive Dems in the primary…will settle for lukewarm ONLY in the general elections.
Loo Hoo. @ 117
… tee hee … Loo Hoo, haven’t you heard, “Don’t mess with
TexasLS !!! *g**xyz @ 135
thanks, I would never have seen that. another one for the firedoglake scrapbook
nabalzbffr @ 146
No one, and I mean no one, will lay a hand on Harriet Miers. That, you and she, can be sure of.
Great job, Ian.
The Democratic establishment, and Harry Reid in particular, have no fucking clue.
The notion that congress won’t be able to get anything done if they start the impeachment process is stupid. Can’t these wienies multitask?
Petrocelli @ 142
EE is fine but am sure this will be a difficult week for her. Next Wenesday is her son Wade’s birthday. Will be in touch with her and will pass along the meditation/yoga/you info. ;-)
I am baffled by the 21st century “filibuster” where the GOP gets to say Democrats are obstructionist when in the minority and do-nothing when in the majority. People simply say now, “You need 60 votes to do anything in the US Senate” which is absolutely false. You need 60 votes in the Senate to do something that tramples on the rights of the minority in so egregious a way as to make them stand up 24/7 to fight for it.
The purpose of the rule is to call attention, wake the slumbering American Idol populace, make them attend to what’s happening in the Capitol: the world’s greatest deliberative body is considering something so heinous that your Senators (or somebody’s Senators) are staying up all nite and bloviating to protect someone’s rights, or prevent the majority from doing something awful.
The perfect vehicle for a real filibuster was Webb’s troop respite requirement, which only fell 4 votes short of the 60 “required.” And so Harry Reid pulled the bill. That’s not comity — that’s capitulation.
Bring back the real filibuster — America needs to see close-up what these GOPers are obstructing.
Elliott @ 113
… settle down, Elliott … *g*
Petrocelli @ 149
Dang!!! You made me laugh!!! I am not in the mood to laugh!!! Sh**, now I can’t stop laughing!!!!! Dang. Stop it!!
marymccurnin @ 151
They have nothing to get done BUT impeachment.
*xyz @ 134
(((Jane)))!!! Mahalo, XYZ!!!
OT-new OBL video.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl.....ew-me.html
Petrocelli @ 155
gracious! that’s not what I meant (blushes)
revmama @ 129
I think Mr. Jefferson had something like this in mind when he said:
I often wonder how many of the folks ranting and raging on this thread about the ‘Spineless Dems’ have taken the time to contact their representatives not once but in a concerted effort with others to….
MAKE YOUR VOICES HEARD!
It’s been said that money doesn’t talk it swears…well one thing the politicians still are much more sensitive to losing than some donor’s dollars is….
YOUR FUKIN’ VOTE!
SO CALL THEM UP AND TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO DO TO KEEP THAT PRECIOUS VOTE AND DO IT EVERY WEEK!
If yer not too busy here whinin’ and gnashin’ yer teeth that is.
Pachacutec @ 152
Agreed.
They are unable or unwilling to use the traditional powers of their office to combat an executive branch that has itself seized powers of outrageous, unprecedented, and unconstitutional scale and scope.
I snoozed off as Little Bo Peep, and woke up as Annie Oakley!!!
Elliott @ 160
Are you speaking of Whitehouse??? Oh, sorry…
LS @ 155
As Petro would say; ‘Deep Breaths’!!! ;-)
Excellent piece, Ian. Well said. Wish we could make every member of Congress read it.
Jane (nyc) @ 154
I’ll be the first to say that the love she gets from her family will pull her through all challenges, they really are a wonderful family.
LS @ 10
A.Citizen @ 162
I often wonder how many of the folks ranting and raging on this thread about the ‘Spineless Dems’ have taken the time to contact their representatives not once but in a concerted effort with others to….
MAKE YOUR VOICES HEARD!
It’s been said that money doesn’t talk it swears…well one thing the politicians still are much more sensitive to losing than some donor’s dollars is….
YOUR FUKIN’ VOTE!
SO CALL THEM UP AND TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO DO TO KEEP THAT PRECIOUS VOTE AND DO IT EVERY WEEK!
If yer not too busy here whinin’ and gnashin’ yer teeth that is.
Excuse me….(smoothes skirt down)…….
FIX ELECTRONIC VOTER FRAUD!
Thank you.
Elliott @ 160
Yeah, sure … *g*
beth meacham @ 165
And force them to watch Bill Moyer’s superlative piece last nite!!! 8-)
You know, there are a lot of great impeachment T-Shirts available at CafePress.
Just sayin’.
Pachacutec @ 151
i’m begining to think the same of nancy pelosi.
from bill moyers last night:
(and don’t get me started about secret trade deals and h.con.r.21)
marymccurnin @ 153
They don’t get anything done anyway. Chimpeach.
Mrs. K8 @ 137
Not sure I’d be willing to call that load. Email ‘em. But with representation like that, letters to the Ed of all your area papers is probably a better bet.
Those moveon type petitions have an effect. And don’t foget to let CNN ABC NBC etc. know when you find their coverage biased or offensive.
My Sen’s are Snowe & Collins. I email them more or less so I’ll be on record - I know I’ll never change Collins’ position; Snowe is a bit more reasonable. But my Rep (Michaud) has made considerable progress in the last year, and I attribute that to upset progressives contacting his office.
LS @ 157
Trust me on this … I have 20 plus years of yoga/meditation research backing me …
become so happy that you feel like a bird in the sky, soar like an Eagle … then Sh*t all over ‘em … *g*
Ot: There is a guy on Flickr who has been looking for his brother in Iraq. He was found in the morgue yesterday. Here is the flickr page.
Petrocelli @ 177
LOL
This is a good idea, too. Because if the bills are popular, then the Republicans end up looking more like turds. And if Bush vetoes, then he looks more like a turd.
So basically, keep them on the retreat. While I favor getting Bush out of office as fast as possible, I like Sun Tzu’s advice when it comes to dealing with an enemy: Never back them into a corner in which they cannot escape, because they will fight to the death.
A better piece of advice from Tzu - If your enemy is in retreat, keep pursuing them. I say we keep the flames under their feets by revoking the most terrible and unpopular bills passed by the previous congress. I say, instead of waiting to fix our medical system now, democrats start voting for solutions NOW while they still have a majority. Keep the Neo-cons on retreat.
ccmask @ 175
Also: What is so hard? Bush brags about violating the Constitution. It is not like there are complicated issues of fact. Nor are the issues of law that difficult, as is evident to anyone who saw Moyers last night.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 64
FYI — this is the AP story all local papers should be asked to carry. There is no other independent reporting that I’ve seen on this story. (Thanks, Waxman, for the Friday news dump!)
CTuttle @ 166
I stopped saying that after someone thought I had said … Big Breasts … almost got me killed … *g*
Elliott @ 84
Hi there, Elliot! I’d never heard of the Greek fire, wonder what the secret ingredient was…
TeddySanFran @ 152
TeddySF,
The ‘procedural” filibuster came in during the ’60s during a rules re-org that also dropped the number of votes for cloture to 60 from 67.
But according to Senate rule 22, old fashioned filibusters are still possible.
This is a petition trying to force Harry to force the Rs into a traditional filibuster. I think it would be perfect for the month of August to force them to stay in DC and vote multiple times a day on Iraq so that everyone gets to see just how much they hate the troops and who the real obstructionists are.
Well-written post. I agree 100%.
I think Gonzales is also the only possible target for the inherent contempt gambit - since the now-corrupt Justice Department won’t do squat about Congressional subpoenas, you have to take him out. Only then will oversight powers be restored.
Sooner or later the Dems in Congress are going to have to learn that simply going through the official motions isn’t doing it any more. This administration and its ilks don’t fucking care what the law is. They don’t care about the Constitution. They don’t care about anything except getting power and keeping it.
Smack someone around, someone who unquestionably deserves it, not according to politics but according to the law, and they might start to get the message.
There just isn’t a better place to start than with Fredo.
Petrocelli @ 181
I dig those err… that!!! ;-)
Petition signed.
dakine01 @ 185
After reading this, how could Congress continue with this stupid charade:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....114222/873
TeddySanFran @ 182
Craig Crawford chided Waxman for the Friday news dump on KO Countdown.
LS @ 10
Impeach!!!!!
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....19123/9615
LS @ 10
wangdangdoodle @ 186
Ditto!!!
TeddySanFran @ 155
TSF keeps channelling my thoughts. GMTA
njr @ 131
Here here! They should remain in session due to the threat of recess appointments alone.. much more fulfill their oath. (If they want to act like an Iraqi gov’t, move there /s)
Does anyone know if cloture was designed with an evenly divided Senate in mind?
Also everytime someone says, no matter what Dems don’t do, I will vote for them anyway, I sense some lurking congressional staffer or a DLC consultant chuckling.
BTW–on impeachment.
Sure the Ds don’t have the votes NOW. But, as the process went on and evidence was provided in a concise & coherent form & covered in the MSM, Rs up for reelection in many districts would have no choice but to vote for it because the evidence is overwhelming.
I was glad to see someone made the point on Moyers last night that I’ve thought for a long time. The fact that Congress didn’t go all the way on Nixon created all sorts of problems that weare still living with, like those who argue still that Nixon did no wrong and a whole host of delusions. “Closure” doesn’t happen until the fat lady sings.
This is a petition trying to force Harry to force the Rs into a traditional filibuster.
I’m afraid that I shouted a bit in the comments box.
LS @ 192
I don’t know why that publication still exists. Worthless, absolutely worthless.
LS @ 10
Amen, you can’t negotiate with a bully.
Kick them in the nuts, and then do it again until they yield.
revmama @ 129
Petition the People’s House of Representatives for redress through impeachment, for starters.
eCAHNomics @ 195
The Impeachment process itself will force the MSM to cover it, front and center, daily!!! *g*
If Reid allows an August recess and gives Bush more chances for recess appointments, then he will have to be replaced.
Jane (nyc) @ 154
Just in case I don’t get to meet him personally, please tell John Edwards that the leadership position
for the Dem. nominee is his for the taking … his only competition is himself …
L8r, walkies
You beat a bully by becoming a populist. Bullies never pick on the popular, they pick on the nerdy.
So democrats, you better start doing what THE PEOPLE want to see, otherwise you’re gonna lose your lunch money.
Money quote from the Bill Moyers show last night:
“The Scooter Libby affair gets to the heart of what, I think, an awful lot of Americans are concerned about with this administration and with the executive branch in general: that it is lawless. That it can re-write the rules for itself. That it can protect itself. And you know the founders anticipated just such a moment. If you look at the discussion in the Federalist Papers, but also in the Constitutional Convention, when they spoke about impeachment one of the things that Madison and George Mason spoke about was the notion that you needed the power to impeach particularly as regards pardons and commutations. Because a president might try to take the burden of the law off members of his administration to prevent them from cooperating with congress in order to expose wrong-doing by the President himself. And so, Madison said that is why we must have the power to impeach.”
John Nichols, author of “The Genius of Impeachment.”
What happens if nobody stands up to Bush? Bush will stay in Iraq but nobody thinks he has a chance of wining. We will be in debt the Dollar is already losing ground against other world currencies so expect inflation too. The Next President probably a Democrat will get the blame for this mess and have a Carter Presidency. Expect the GOP to blame Democrats for the economy and to keep fighting for tax cuts for the rich while they cut aid to vets.
But if Democrats fight, well who needs the filibuster? Just cut off the funding tell the President no money EXCEPT to bring the troops home now! The Republicans do not have enough votes to pass a law without us. However the Republicans are in the weaker postion THEY WANT THINGS. We tell them NO! they throw a tantrum, cry, baragin etc. Bush might even let the troops sit there and blame us for abandoning the troops. Somehow the American people I don’t think will buy it.
jayt @ 198
Well, I don’t think I shouted when I first signed it. Too much. But I may not have been quite as polite as I usually am…
The republicans will stop at nothing. They falsely impeached a president, robbed an election (Gore), used every filthy trick outside the book to corrupt this country to the bonemarrow.
They will stop at nothing to get and keep power. They must be stopped by us.
A la guerre comme a la guerre.
CTuttle @ 204
Yeah, but what kind of coverage? KO will do it justice, but the rest of ‘em… not so much. Totally agree they should have carried the Nixon impeachment to closure, though. Maybe then we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in now.
LS @ 10
Tim Weinert’s new book on CIA, which got a good review by Michael Beschloss, is just starting on C-SPAN2.
LooHoo 203, No, not advocating anything racial - of course not. Just the M.O. of approaching authority was interesting in the Betty Boop cartoon - considering.
things come undone @ 208
The House just passed an April deadline for combat troops in Iraq, Reid needs to force the Repugs into a Physical Filibuster!!!
*xyz @ 163
The point from Moyers’ Journal that bears repeating is that the Speaker of the House does not have the power to suspend parts of the Constitution, as she has done in the case of impeachment, particularly in the face of a runaway, monarchical executive.
It is their duty to impeach, or the republic is lost.
wangdangdoodle @ 213
Don’t forget that we took a pass on impeachment when Saint Ronald sold arms to terrorists, to pay off hostage takers. We could have avoided one Bush and probably two.
CTuttle @ 217
Hey Buddy, are Canucks allowed to sign that petition ?
TeddySanFran @ 218
TSF, Pach you guys are great !
This is a very good point … that Pelosi is in derilection of duty by refusing to impeach !
[raises hand] I won’t bother writing Cornyn or Bailey-Hutchison. Although I’m not in Reid’s or Pelosi’s districts, as leaders of their respective chambers, they do represent me so I will write to them instead.
No, wait, on second thought… I’ll be a squeeky wheel and write the former, tool.
(Now there’s a typo that doesn’t need fixin’)
The Dems act like this is a football game where they have the lead and are running a “prevent defense”. Let the other guys get yardage, just run out the clock.
Hate it in football, hate it in real life.
Petrocelli @ 221
So what do we have to do? Impeach Pelosi?
A.Citizen @ 162
I often wonder how many of the folks ranting and raging on this thread about the ‘Spineless Dems’ have taken the time to contact their representatives not once but in a concerted effort with others to….
MAKE YOUR VOICES HEARD!
It’s been said that money doesn’t talk it swears…well one thing the politicians still are much more sensitive to losing than some donor’s dollars is….
YOUR FUKIN’ VOTE!
SO CALL THEM UP AND TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO DO TO KEEP THAT PRECIOUS VOTE AND DO IT EVERY WEEK!
If yer not too busy here whinin’ and gnashin’ yer teeth that is.
**You don’t seem to realize where you are. Most of the people on FDL are activists. They talk the talk and walk the walk. Never make assumptions.
Edited ** by Mod
wangdangdoodle @ 211
The Dems will present definitive proof for impeachment, unlike, the ‘98 Sensenbrenner led HJC! The Repugs on the HJC will hem and haw about ‘Partisan Witchhunts’, yet, the American Electorate will awaken and force the issue!!!
wangdangdoodle @ 222
Take out the comma.
Hey Buddy, are Canucks allowed to sign that petition ?
Hell, yeah. I think it counts double.
Sorry for all the double triple comments, I don’t know what was wrong.
Petrocelli @ 218
Sorry, amigo, you know the rules! No Furiners allowed, we don’t like your kind!!! *g*
Loo Hoo. @ 229
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa. I thought you were mad at me.
jayt @ 228
Are you yankin’ my doodle ?!! *g*
Petrocelli @ 230
707!!!
CTuttle @ 226
Thanks CT, you’re right. Let ‘em squeel like stuck piggies. We’re used to that by now. Eyes are opening and it’s getting harder to pull wool anymore.
TeddySanFran @ 218
Yes.
Isn’t it striking how Bush has pushed the power of the executive branch well beyond its legal limits, while in response the Democrats have refused to even acknowledge their sacred powers and duties under the Constitution.
marymccurnin @ 153
Well, the thing is, they aren’t getting anything useful done now. The only bills they can pass are ones Republicans want passed - which mostly means stuff that’s pretty awful. So the “can’t get anything done while impeaching” argument, to me, is moot even if true.
And months of talking about what Bush/Cheney and/or Gonzales has done in terms of criminal acts, sounds like something that drives the media cycle in Dems favor even if the media plays it pro-Pub. (In the same way that every time Bush mentions the war, even when he gets favourable coverage, his ratings drop.)
Petrocelli @ 232
Say what?
:)
At the end of the day, no matter how mad the constituency is at the moment, the leadership in Congress will do nothing of the sort Ian Welsh proposes. That is the maddening thing for me. I know the solutions provided for in the Constitution are being obstructed, but by the Democrats. The Constitution can defend itself and the rest of us to if we let it. The Dems won’t let it.
teddy at 182 says “FYI — this is the AP story all local papers should be asked to carry. There is no other independent reporting that I’ve seen on this story. (Thanks, Waxman, for the Friday news dump!)”
teddy, wapo had a tillman article…….http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....rrer=email
TeddySanFran @ 218
If she knows that she won’t have the votes to send articles to the Senate, what is her duty as a leader? If Bush is impeached it will have to come from the bottom up. The bought off, consolidated MSM will be actively obstructing the process. Unlike H2O-gate that was an in-side the beltway issue that the MSM helped make an national issue, today it will be just the opposite..a nothing to see here..Dems causing trouble. At the moment there is no national feeling for impeachment. There is going to have to be a national movement and “things” are going to have to get a lot worse.
dude @ 238
What is the Constitution’s phone number and fax number, because an awful lot of people would like for “it” to defend itself.
eCAHNomics @ 224
Well, she is Italian, so invite her over for dinner … some candlelight, Pavarotti in the background, antipasti, red wine … then tell her if she wants more food, she’ll have to work harder …
Ai, it worked for my Italian friends when their family did that to them … straightened out and did their work …
CTuttle @ 230
Bu Bu But … I’m
NorthAmerican !I’m taking another break from my family reunion, so I haven’t had time to read through all the comments. But just let me say that (a) I am frustrated by the spinelessness of Democrats in Congress, but (2) I don’t like the
language of force, which sounds too much like the language of violence.
I would prefer that we use the language of confrontation. I like the idea of making them exercise the filibuster on popular issues. The same thing goes for calling their bluff on impeachment. Make’em defend Bush and Cheney and Gonzales against impeachment. And then saddle them with that albatross in ‘08.
Bob in
HIWIPetrocelli @ 232
The petition is set up for addresses from anywhere, and a choice of countries. I think a Canadian signature would be a great statement.
Now as to the counting double part, well….
Petrocelli @ 125
Or we have to start replacing Democrat Centerist types with Democrats with a Spine. Primary Challenges for weak Democrats! surely we can find some people out there who want the power to change things hopefuly for the better.
But anything is better than our current Congress Critters who have the power but do nothing. These DNC types are making all the Democratic Presidential Candidates look weak on the war because they are being pushed around on this issue. Keeping troops in Iraq like Hilary wants isn’t tough. She is just wimping out desperate to avoid a fight with the GOP. Fighting to bring the troops home againist the President and for the Majority of Americans is the new Tough and the New Center!
Loo Hoo. @ 228
Are you scrolling to the end of the posting window so’s you get outside the end of the block quote?
and cnn.com had a tillman article, too, but don’t have the link.
albert fall @ 223
How about a Hockey analogy, Reid is on a breakaway from deep inside his zone and ices the puck !
Steve-AR @ 240
Your comment made me wonder. Why was the MSM in favor of impeaching Nixon? Or at least, why was it not cowed into suppressing discussion of it, as our current 4th estate seems to be? Is it because of the unpopularity of the war, which solidified while there was still a draft? I don’t know.
dude @ 238
What is the Constitution’s phone number and fax number, because an awful lot of people would like for “it” to defend itself.Petrocelli @ 242
Ha, ha, ha. You nailed that exactly. She is someone who needs to be “whooed”, but she is playing with the King of Straightface. Problem is…either she is supergranny and we’ll all be surprised, or she is clueless. I opt for the former, but time is running out for her to act. I sincerely hope she has the royal flush.
OK, I’m out. Going to support the troops and do some shopping.
/snark
Petrocelii’s onto something - the Dems need to tell Bush to Get the puck out of here!!!
Strange Bedfellows by Cindy Sheehan
Why was the MSM in favor of impeaching Nixon? Or at least, why was it not cowed into suppressing discussion of it, as our current 4th estate seems to be?
oooh, I know this one.
Because journalism used to be an honorable profession.
dmac @ 238
TSF and BigMitch had first page comments on the story.
The Tillman family are bunch of ungrateful Sheehanites. Pat Tillman did something stupid, got in the line of fire of his own forces and got killed (not that I am blaming him, fog of war and all that). The Administration tried to “cover it up” by putting out a story that Tillman died a heroic death. How is this supposed to be damaging to Tillman and his family? As I once wrote:
How petty and small-minded! Embellishment of heroic war stories in order to inspire people is an ancient literary tradition going back to Homer’s day, if not earlier. One is not supposed to take them literally. Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman represent photogenic archetypes of our brave fighting men and women. While the stories told about them may not be literally true, they portray a larger “big picture” truth, which is entirely valid. Reasonable people understand this. If Waxman and company think they can make hay out of this to advance their nefarious schemes, they will be sorely disappointed.
Steve-AR @ 240
I beg to differ.
There is a national feeling for impeachment.
And your talk about votes is totally beside the point.
Remember - Nancy Pelosi refuses to even talk about impeachment. She says it is off the table.
Let’s see how the whip count looks after she starts talking about impeachment and allows other Democrats in the House to do likewise. I predict that the numbers will change significantly.
At the very least, Nancy Pelosi owes it to the Constitution and to the nation to start talking about impeachment, to begin the conversation. Then you will find out a lot more about the national mood.
Until Nancy puts impeachment back on the table for open discussion, she cannot be excused based on the argument that the votes aren’t there right now. That is a total cop out.
new thread
jayt @ 245
The way the Loonie is gaining on the Greenback, it might soon count as double …
CTuttle @ 194
Me too.
Steve-AR:
From ARG, last week:
The people are way, way ahead of the Beltway Bunch, as Moyers’ guests pointed out last evening.
jayt @ 254
key words being “USED TO BE”
as in “NOT ANY MORE”
So when do the impeachment hearings start? These really are the key to getting us there. There have got to be enough Rethuglican Senators who will understand that with the materials that will come out in impeachment hearings they are better off forcing BushCo out. We can’t count them to put country over party but they will see that blocking conviction will be more costly in ‘08 than acting like they really believe in the rule of law.
FYI, Saturday block party upstairs
Actually if you followed watergate closely(my sophomore year of college) it built very slowly in the public consciousness and but for the OLD WAPO alot of what happened may never have come to light. Curse you Bob Woodward, you are a sellout!
Petrocelli @ 245
How about a Hockey analogy, Reid is on a breakaway from deep inside his zone and ices the puck !
What kind of canuck are you? If he’s on a breakaway, surely he can get to the puck before it’s icing. Nah, he’s circling behind his own net when he’s got a forward breaking for the blue line. Just a potential offside.
Ed*ard Teller @ 252
707 !!!
Well said, ET !!!
Petrocelli @ 247
I have torn allegiances, however, I think the Icing call is more apropo, because it brings the puck back to the wrong side of the rink, but, the ‘Prevent Defense’ is as distasteful!!!
FWIW, for me, this was the money quote from the Moyers show last night:
but i wonder what makes him think so.
i’m betting Kennedy’s a big-time unitary executive kinda guy.
Opus Dei RULZ!
LS @ 230
No, and I wasn’t worried about you being racist. So many of the old cartoons are, though. Ever seen Disney’s Dumbo? Eeeek. When I see an Elephant Fly?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zGaqWiYPP8
GordonM @ 266
Take off, eh? *g*
“ices the puck” means that he fires the puck all the way down the ice, although your play
also sums up Mr. Reid’s misconduct as Senate Majority Leader !
nabalzbffr @ 256
You just run back to Freeperland, tell them you did your duties. I’m sure you’ll get a dog biscuit.
Thanks again, Ian!
Petrocelli @ 271
Hey! I’m not talking college rules. This is NFL - the big boys. Ain’t icing ’till it’s touched.
BigMitch @ 249
I think the the most simple explanation is that today the MSM is basically five corps. In the 60’s it was much more decentralized and you made a buck by “scooping your” competition. Today they make a buck by a different mechanism.
BTW if you haven’t seen it, John Dean has an interesting piece at:
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070713.html
CTuttle @ 268
A better football analogy might be that the DT jumps offside, giving the offense a free play and
A) Reid -Quarterback - spikes the ball or
B) laterals it to his RB (Levin) who charges into his own endzone ! *g*
GordonM @ 274
You can ice the puck without being called for icing … trust me on this, I eat/sleep/breathe Hockey …
BTW, thanks for slammin’ the troll …
Wow… What a post.
This should be required reading for every Democratic member of Congress and every single one of their aids/advisers/consultants/family!
dakine at 255 says “TSF and BigMitch had first page comments on the story.”
oh, he said he hadn’t seen any other stories, soooooooo…..
i can’t read comments on wapo, tried to again today, so didn’t see their comments…….must be a browser issue…….
Petrocelli @ 277
Oh yeah? Well I could take Domi with both hands tied behind my back!!! (Sorry, my team’s the Bruins, so I do a lot of yelling.)
you’re welcome
dmac @ 280
Thanks for the reminder about the WaPo story; I had mis-remembered the SF-bylined AP story as appearing at the WaPo as well.
Has anyone seen other reporting?
GordonM @ 281
The Bruins ? Which professional team do you support ?!! *g*
Sadly, we have the Make Believes AKA Maple Leafs … you and I should meet and cry in our Beers until we get teams worth supporting … ciao !
Perhaps it’s time for a Shakespearian technique… the “play within the play.”
Someone with means and wherewithal to make a grainy YouTube video of Inherent Contempt being enforced. Miers or whomever (played by a lookalike) being hauled off to whatever the Sergeant-at-Arms uses for a jail, after being brought before either Leahy or Conyers to answer why they have not responded to their subpoenae and submitted appropriate testimony/documents, etc.
That little play within Hamlet served the purpose of warning the “King” that he was being targeted. In this case, a short “play” could be an ice-breaker… something to break through the inertia.
The same thing with any of the other actions that we want either the House or Senate to take.
Include shots of Publican obstructionists… very important.
LS @ 250
In the order of succession, were Bush and Cheney impeached, would the acting President become the Secy of State or Pelosi herself?
dude @ 285
Pelosi then Robert Byrd (Senate President Pro Tem)
dakine01 @ 286
So Pelosi may not want to impeach because she might get promoted?
that was a top-shelf, championship post! even I rather wish the (D) party would adopt these strategies and tactics.
but I think there is an assumption in there that could use some more examination/substantiation
what evidence is there they really want the rampant criminality to stop?
they want more power in the 08 election cycle, and the lobbyists and corporations are already paying up in the expectation that they will get it.
they beleive they can even nominate a neo-con, moderate republican like Hillary Clinton, and still win the presidency, despite all the humiliation the repugs are dishing out…why change?
and they beleive that everyone to the left of Rahm Emmanuel is their lifetime electoral captive, who can be shamed/scared into voting for anyone, including a neo-con who is threatening to nuke Iran… in much the same way Rove/Cheney assumed the public could be continually frightened into beleiving any line of b*llshit just by saying “9/11″ all the time.
well that finally isn’t working anymore, and one day the “least worst” schtick will fail to function as intended, and the (D)’s can genuilely reform or go the way of the whigs.
dude @ 287
There has to be a public groundswell, with a huge majority in Congress likely to vote for impeachment before she comes out in favor of it … keep the pressure on the Repugs and Bluedogs !
teddy at 282 says “Thanks for the reminder about the WaPo story; I had mis-remembered the SF-bylined AP story as appearing at the WaPo as well.
Has anyone seen other reporting?”
yes, cnn.com had an in-depth story…….went in to read a story, had a link at the bottom of the page…….read it earlier today, sorry no link, i’m on dialup and to add to it, my browser keeps getting ‘hung up’ today for some reason……have had to shut everything down about ten times today, so i’m not goin’ huntin’…….ha.
sporkovat @ 287
Maybe things like this?
thanks for engaging my question…
from Gordon M’s link:
that’s fine as far as it goes, but I was thinking about bigger matters like the restoration of the ancient writ of habeas corpus, the ending of the criminal war and occupation, even restoration of the institutional prestige of the Congress… what evidence is ther they really want to do any of this?
as pointed out by Mr Welsh
they’ve chosen complicity, underneath a thin shell of rhetorical posturing, which polls show that people saw through.
doesn’t it make sense that they are doing on purpose? not impeaching, not seriously roadblocking the war, not managing to stop the horrible MCA, made more ludicrous by the Repugs amazing ability to bring everything to a halt when they are the minority…
Ian, that’s powerful. Thank you.
Ian, kudos for an outstanding piece, and you are absolutely right.
“The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!”
–Camille Desmoulins
“One must frighten those who govern; one must never frighten the people.”
– Antoine Saint-Just
Amen.
LS @ 12
Wow. Hope we don’t get to whatever you saw.
sporkovat @ 291
No. It makes more sense that most people, when things are going half decently, pay no attention to politics. OTOH, the Right and the big money interests always pay attention to politics. And the Right and big money have made sure that the media portrays everything in their favor. It takes time and effort to overcome that. Politicians are typically not exactly bright, so you have to tell them over and over and over again how to vote. Hopefully, before they vote.
realworld @ 94
Harriet no longer works for the White House and therefore Secret Service is not applicable. However, if George sends a Secret Service Detail in his “I do want I want” mode, arrest them too. If George counters with tanks and gunships, he may find out that both tanks and gunships have become srangely inoperative. “White House 6, this is Red Dog 6, say again, your transmission is garbled, OUT.
*strangely
Eureka Springs @ 28
Why do you repeat the Republican rhetoric that it’s the Dems in Congress who aren’t doing their job?
If Senate Republicans didn’t filibuster a lot of legislation would hit Bush’s desk.
If Senate Republicans would go along with an impeachment conviction, then impeachment would begin in the House (I feel certain).
What are Dems doing wrong? Nothing I can see. It’s Republicans who are obstructing the will of the American people. And, if Dems let the filibusters go forward (as Ian wrote), then the public will see who is holding up things.
Lay the wood to ‘em politically.
low-tech cyclist (formerly RT) @ 79
Dems don’t control the media, but if there’s a great visual filibuster with a lot of loud talk it might make the news and make the public better informed (or entertained).
Ian, I have a question. Have you seen this in Harper’s? I’d like your views and analysis if you are so inclined.
Pachacutec @ 152
What doesn’t he understand?
Do you really think that impeaching now would lead to eviction?
I see a lot of angst on fdl today (I’m writing Saturday night) and it’s frustrating as heck to me. I know you want a strong hand to fix things, but we live in a Democracy where the people are truly in charge and Democrats should respect that.
The Republican senators who are supporting Bush disproportionately are going to pay a big price and Dems will gain a lot in the next elections. I know that isn’t a satisfying answer to anybody in a hurry to be rid of George. But, in tandem with the political gain for Dems (not really clarified at the individual level yet) there is the pressure on Senate Repubs to cave and when they do Dems will be able to push through a lot of great stuff in a hurry.
Now, what is it Reid doesn’t understand? Is it patience? Or is it the Liberals & Progressives who don’t understand?
Note: I say this as someone who doesn’t personally know Reid and doesn’t even follow his work as separate from other Senate stuff.
Liberals and Progressives should continue to inspire and push legislators, but we must also give them time to execute the plan.
TeddySanFran @ 217
If Dems impeach and don’t convict, then you will NEVER hear the end of CLINTON and BUSH are the same, both impeached, neither convicted. And, you still won’t have gotten rid of Bush.
Scream in frustration, but don’t lose your mind.
Push Reid and the Senate to force a filibuster to the floor and then mop the floor with the Republican senators!
Eureka Springs @ 37
Nichols:Our leaders treat us as children. They think that we cannot handle a serious dialogue about the future of our republic, about what it will be and how it will operate. And so, you know, to an extent, we begin to act like children. We, you know, follow other interests. We decide to be entertained rather than to be citizens.
Well, you know, and Bruce makes frequent references to the fall of the Roman Empire. You know, that’s the point at where the fall comes. It doesn’t come because of a bad leader. It doesn’t come because of a dysfunctional Congress. It comes when the people accept that– role of the child or of the subject and are no longer citizens. And so I think this moment becomes so very, very important because we know the high crimes and misdemeanors.
So, after seeing some disappointment in the comments about Dems in action, I ask you: how many of you will still vote D in the next election cycle?
good lord, if the current crop of cautious, wee little nellies had been in charge Nixon would never have been impeached and forced to resign.
He was a ‘war president’ and had just been re-elected, but they didn’t go “nee-nee-nee, we don’t have the votes” they pressed on all fronts until Nixon screwed up and alienated enough Republicans with the Saturday night massacre.
Anyone think Bush wouldn’t screw up somehow if the Congress miraculously grew a spine and locked up Harriet in the basement?
of course he would, and if the (D)’s wanted to they could put the issues strongly in front of the public in the ways Ian mentioned.
MarH says
they are executing their plan - pick up incremental gains in Congress in 08, engage in kabuki until then, try to elect a neo-conservative like Clinton who will continue and extend most of Bush’s policies, then announce “it’s time for comprimise” and the remnant (R)’s will still be able to get most of what they want, and block any real reform…
maybe, it’s the Liberals & Progressives who do understand that the USA as a Constitutional Republic needs a little more help, a little more courage, than the typical electioneering and triangulating the (D)’s are doing?
Thank Jeebus for saying it straight. Now how the hell are we gonna pound this message into the heads of the Democrats?
I have thought from the beginning (of time) that the statements by our leaders that the 2006 election was not about impeachment, were meant to re-assure centrist voters that this was not an election to be likened to a tennis match where the Republicans could always claim that the Democrats were playing politics.
On the other hand, Democrats could be certain that new outrages from the Bushies would be discovered or committed, so “I come not to praise Caesar but to bury him” works perfectly. We didn’t ask you to elect us to take Dumb and dumber to jail, but look at this. We wouldn’t be doing our job as Congressinals if we didn’t stand here to uphold the Constitution. Perfect, clean of malace: doing an unpleasant task forced upon us by Dick and Dumbo.
a great quote from Arthur Silbur at http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/
as an oblique answer to jahf @ 308…
many, many Republicans are going to vote (D) for their first time ever… people who were born (R)’s everyone they ever knew always voted (R), multi-generational military families, country-club repubs like W’s father, all are disgusted beyond beleif at the mess that junior fuckwit has made of the country and government they respect.
Many complacent independents and (D)’s are becoming active in the left blogoshpere and volunteering etc, many who were energized by Dean are pushing for a more principled (D) party.
given these tidal shifts, real progressives should have no trouble following their conscience by refusing to vote for or support a candidate who takes a crazy, warmongering position like threatening to use nuclear weapons against Iran, as Clinton and Obama and others do.
I mean, if you can support someone like that, you are already knee-deep in the manichean, ends-justify-the-means mentality that characterized Bush and the neo-cons.
what would the magically anointed (D) nominee have to say to lose reflexive support? sorry, all options are not on the table, some things are just too wrong, even threatening them is a crime against peace according to the nuremburg standards.
All this “Dems should” reminds me of the recent post on creative activism brainstorming. All the “should” in the world won’t help without a way to get through to them. Yet 90% of the comments in that thread were just more “should”, or cutesy “send all the congresspeople an XXX” ideas. Even those that moved beyond were mostly so focused on one tactic (eg, street demonstrations) that the strategy was lost.
What works? First, look at what’s worked. A*P*C and the religious right are good sources of ideas.
-Coordination. Choose a target, and focus your efforts on that target until they really feel it. I don’t ask for some ideological homogeneity from us, but FDL and other larger blogs should start a “today’s / this week’s action” and smaller blogs should link to them or suggest others.
-Dedication. Be ready to be devoting several hours a week to your chosen tactic, whether that be letters to the editor or whatever. Keep up the volume. Blog comments don’t count.
-On the offense, and bipartisan about it. Republicans do not get a free pass from the religious right - dems shouldn’t from us. We should be ready to go 12 rounds with Pelosi herself if we have to.
-Take on the media, too. When they use language you don’t like, demand a retraction. (The bad guys use this for evil, but we only have to demand the truth.) Speak and act as if it is an absolute given that the media is biased against you, don’t waste too much time making the argument, just take it for granted. This was very very powerful for the right and it’s still paying them big dividends.
-Hit people where it hurts - letters to advertisers, when you’re dealing with the media; attack ads in their district, for politicians; etc.
-Avoid actually declaring a boycott, they are hard to pull off and you look silly when they fail. Keep to actions where you look bigger than your numbers, not vice versa. (A general consumer strike could be this, if consumer numbers are going down anyway.)
-Use humor and creativity in your tactics. But this is the LAST step, do NOT do this until you have worked all the way down from main goals down to weekly targets. Strategy beats tactics.
-Move the center of gravity - Find some weak outliers on some issue and make a big issue of it to where they pull back in fear - pretty soon the whole herd will start to wheel in your direction.
-Don’t forget to reward your friends by giving them Valuable Chances to Keep Getting your Priceless Advice (sugar-coated with cash, but remember to keep headlining the Advice and not the cash as the value in it, politicians are so used to doublethink that they might actually believe you and even if they don’t it’s a good cover.)
All this takes money and it takes unity, but actually a lot less of both than you might think. Mostly it just takes getting to work, and not wasting time with silly infighting. Sign up to MoveOn, too - you may not agree with them 100% but they’re the ones with the most, biggest strategy on our side.
So, what is the strategy? Get out three messages. Media: if you don’t call the lies, right then and there and in the liars faces, you’re not doing your job. Republicans: Your party is going down, you’d better put some distance in between yourself and it.
Democrats: Go ahead, make a scene. (This covers real filibusters, inherent contempt, and impeachment, in a way they can hear. We need to talk morals and duty to our peers, but we need to talk about about smart politics to the politicians.)
(and msg no 4, for Citizens: The Republican leaders have gone totally crazy and it’s our duty to stop them!)
(MOD NOTE: *Edited to allow through filters)
Well said Homonq
The MSM is burying the Tillman story. It’s the story to run with, to promote, to keep in the news. It outrages average Americans on a visceral level and it’s indefensible–
We should ask everywhere, on every message board. Why can’t Bush tell the truth about Pat TIllman? Is he our King? Is he a dictator?
I think Democrats lose because we aren’t harpies. The downside of that is that we get people outraged and riled up about Libby– and then we drop it for a newer and better outrage– which communicates that the original outrage isn’t so outrageous. Tillman isn’t as complicated as fired US Attorneys serving “at the pleasure of the President.” Tillman is America’s son. His tragedy is classic, mythical and what has been done to his family is a primer on the way this administation works. I think we should harp on it and never let it go. Ask everyone why the TIllman family can’t be given the truth…Why does even a soldier’s tragic death have to become a secretive, manipulative, political event? The issue of the false use of Executive Privilege will become clear to the greater majority.
Our problem: we get bored to easily, we want to discuss miriad issues. The public wants a singular place to focus their outrage. They need a narrative.
You can’t outbully a bully but you can change the rules of the game on him. That’s when they flounder and they fall.
Ian,
I have posted excerpts of your stunning article on the Thom Hartmann forums with a link back to it. It must be passed around far and wide. With your permission, I would like to excerpt five paragraphs and send them as emails - with a link, of course - to all my progressive friends.
This is the gold standard plan for regaining the debate. The GOP declared war on us 30 years ago and we ignored it. They used scorched earth tactics while we offered compromises. They destroyed Clinton personally, while this Congress plays footsy with the most power hungry, the most incompetent, the most dangerous Administration in the history of the Republic. We are long overdue; we must finally put on our war paint and face them down. They are bullies after all, and bullies will run from a hard fight.
sporkovat@312,
Arthur Silber basically argues, convincingly in my opinion, that Dems want the same thing as Republicans. The intent of my question, if it was not evident, is to ask why one would support Asses any more than one would support Elephants, if the actions of Asses lead us to the same undesirable place as the actions of Elephants?
spiffarino @ 316
By all means. I am honored that you think it’s worth sharing.
Lindy @ 304
I hadn’t read it till just now Lindy. Thanks for pointing it out. The problem with this particular case is that it’s just worse in degree, not kind, to the way that Republican believe in using not just law enforcement, but all powers of government (IRS audits of liberal, but not conservative churches, are another example.)
As an aside, I would add that as admirable as the Roman Atticus was I think his decision was the wrong one and Cicero’s, however hopeless the right one. Partisan politics can be disgusting, but if you don’t participate you hand power to those who will.
The problem is, 90% of the news media is going to agree with the republicans. But still, I totally agree with you. We should fight fire with a blowtorch. Enough of this onesided civility. Scr_ w them! Every last one of them!
I live in the United States of America, an oligarchy. Where do you live?
The Non-Broder! I thought we Dems had the perfect opportunity to give the GOP a black eye with Senator Webb’s troop-rotation bill. Can’t understand why Harry Reid backed down on that one, not forcing to Republicans to actually filibuster (24/7). Just imagine, Wolf Blitzer or Jake Trapper wondering what’s going on with “usually pro-military” McCain or Graham (yeah, I know: they’d state that those two were really standing on principle, not reading the polls, etc., but they’ve already made those statements about those two when the debate cutoff failed).
Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi: grow some Balls and grab the GOP bullies by the short hairs! You should make them work for whatever victory Senator Levin or Gene Taylor eventually makes you give them, for God’s sake.
Can’t progressives find a candidate to challenge Pelosi for the Democratic nomination in her district?
Unlike Lieberman, she couldn’t win as an independant in San Francisco, where the people are totally fed up with her inaction on impeachment.
Also, Reid is not up for re-election till 2010, but progressives can start promoting an alternative. Make the weak Dem’s pay for their candy-ass behavour.
Any comments, ideas, support for this?
CTuttle @ 57
We make it very clear to Mr. Ried and Ms. Pelosi that they will not be back. And we do something about it. Up to and including writing in our own names. The Democrats think they are the only game in town. Well, what’s the good of them sitting in there if they’re letting the Rethugs do what they want to? Two years of a house and Senate where there are no democrats won’t hurt us any more than the last few years, where the democrats sat on their hands. So if you’re going to be an activist, you have to say to these people, unless you are willinig to do thus and such, I will write my own name on the ballot in place of yours.
Another tactic, one that takes a little money (George Sorros) is to quietly investigate every last one of them. What stocks do they own, what deals are they involved with. Almost no one in politics is clean. It is coming to the point (or maybe it has reached the point, that is we don’t do something soon, we will lose the republic. Maybe it is time to form (or join, if one exists) a Greens party.
And, oh, yeah. If we find the dirt we’re looking for, we don’t refer it to law enforcement, because there is none for them. We try it in the Media. Right here.
Additionally, there is going to be a draft pretty soon, and they 18-year olds will have a chance to stand up and be counted. It happened in Vietnam.
Good post Ian.
The problem is that I don’t think the Dems will do anything you suggest. I don’t understand why. Take Kerry getting swiftboated in the 2004 election. First he says nothing and then responds apologetically. His courage (at least Kerry served in Vietnam) was questioned by an AWOL National Guard pilot and a much deferred draft dodger. Where was Kerry’s outrage? Even today, with political ambitions gone and no need for money, his voice is muted.
We need to talk about creating an alternative to Democrats and Republicans. That’s a dark and scary road. I don’t see another choice.
nice stuff down here in EPU territory.
jahf @ 317 - sorry if I misconstrued your post. Myself I would try to push left in a (D) primary, then vote for Frank Zappa or Pigasus or who/whatever else rather than lend a micron of support to some warmonger.
Silbur is correct that there is no difference in their overall foreign policy worldview, and they have all proven to be willing to demonstrate a great and passionate attachment to the wishes of a country other than their own … 97-0, sh*t!
homunq - good call - a lot can be learned from the strategies of the right and the neo-cons.
cynic - also good strategy. we need a Lamont here in Illinois to ask Joe-Bama some hard questions in a primary, it would clarify things nicely.
though the greatest test bed should be San Francisco- dumping a sitting Speaker would be a proud accomplishment for the contrarian Bay Area to claim. Someone should form the Emperor Norton Party!
props as well to Ed Kunin - I’d like to see more evidence that (D)’s really want to change anything… thats why they don’t and won’t follow such suggestions as Ians.