zed!?

Zed?

woo-hoo, first time evah

“early railroad companies to put down trackage”

More often than not, on gratis swaths of right-of-way courtesy of the political process of the day.

wangdangdoodle @ 3

woo-hoo, first time evah

The “competition” gets fiercer all the time! ;})

Louis Prima!

Am learning more about local waterways. Following neighborhood creek, walking it as far as possible both directions from my home. Saw fish in it for the first time last week.

OT kos question, where is the best place in Chicago to get a hot fudge sundae?

Buenas dias, Dakine!

retirin’ in five @ 4

“early railroad companies to put down trackage”

More often than not, on gratis swaths of right-of-way courtesy of the political process of the day.

Which just shows how long the US has been in the tank for corporate hacks. Not that I didn’t already know this…

wangdangdoodle @ 8

Buenas dias, Dakine!

It always has that possibility! Buenas Dias to you!

dakine01 @ 9

retirin’ in five @ 4

“early railroad companies to put down trackage”

More often than not, on gratis swaths of right-of-way courtesy of the political process of the day.

Which just shows how long the US has been in the tank for corporate hacks. Not that I didn’t already know this…

While I will concede that there was a public benefit to the establishment and construction of transportation infrastructure — bunches of people got rich in the process. That definitely has a contemporary ring to it.

Made a trip to South Austin yesterday, the Colorado is still swolen and churning from the recent rain bombs.

Like Trout Brook, we will continue to fight resistance and seep through cracks everywhere they appear. We as a collective body are a force to be reckoned with and I dare anyone or anything to try to stop us now.

I’m watching the Moyers impeachment video – it should be required watching for every member of Congress, IMHO.

hydraulic despotism – a great phrase about the Egyptian dynasties…

Phoenix Woman,
I can make a rather stupid claim in that I have driven over the Mississippi at its head, middle AND tail…

We have family pictures of wading in the waters at Lake Minnetonka, or maybe that is a park. Is it Lake Itaska that is the headwater of the Mississippi? My mother is from Minneapolis, so we spent some summer times in Mpls/StPaul.

Did someone mention the Mississippi?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH4aarDMkYY

Another job well done…

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07…..ia.html?hp

Russia withdraws from cold war treaty. Good job, Bush.

Nequals1 @ 14

I’m watching the Moyers impeachment video – it should be required watching for every member of Congress, IMHO.

Is it online? Link, please. Which of his shows is it?

Thanks,

Bob in HIWI

sporkovat @ 15

hydraulic despotism – a great phrase about the Egyptian dynasties…

Karl Wittfogel?

Bob in HIWI

dakine01 @ 16

Phoenix Woman,
I can make a rather stupid claim in that I have driven over the Mississippi at its head, middle AND tail…

I’ve stood in the middle of the head and crossed over somewhere in the middle, but never been to the tail…where exactly is that?

Just for you:

Dru @ 6

Louis Prima!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K1InOOLEsQ

bobschacht @ 20

Nequals1 @ 14

I’m watching the Moyers impeachment video – it should be required watching for every member of Congress, IMHO.

Is it online? Link, please. Which of his shows is it?

Thanks,

Bob in HIWI

Bill Moyers Journal

Moyers is a treasure. I suggest the House Juduciary Committee hire Bruce Fein to carry out Impeachment hearings. Get the show on the road. Conyers needs a professional to impeach Bush and Cheney. Keep Pelosi out of it until the deed is done. Impeach, remove from office, and stand Nancy up for the Oath of Office.

Lea-no uh @ 22

dakine01 @ 16

Phoenix Woman,
I can make a rather stupid claim in that I have driven over the Mississippi at its head, middle AND tail…

I’ve stood in the middle of the head and crossed over somewhere in the middle, but never been to the tail…where exactly is that?

Well, a little above the tail actually in New Orleans. Also crossed in St Paul, St Louis, Memphis, Cairo and a couple of other places in between…

The netroots and grassroots are the hidden power, now rising to the surface.

I for one, was dismayed with Sen. Leahy’s performance vis a vis Ms. Taylor.

As grievance chair, I encountered the same smug intransigence when confronting the company. When I went into hearings expecting them to play be the rules (even the bare minimum), I lost. Management would flat out lie to my face, knowing I knew it but couldn’t prove it.

As a result, I learned to drill down and get documented evidence (management is intractably lazy). In the hearing, I’d let them do their song and dance, and then I’d stick the documented evidence proving otherwise up their ass. That was when I started winning.

In the Taylor hearings, why didn’t Leahy have a handful of EPA staffers testify as to the political nature of Taylor’s visit to counter her “I don’t recall” bullshit? Why didn’t he have Sampson in the wings when Taylor ran for “that’s privileged” cover?

Sen. Leahy was a prosecutor and is nobody’s fool. I’m sure he knows how to play this game far better than I. But he pulled his punches in the hearings, and for the life of me, I don’t understand why.

It sure pisses me off.

bobschacht @ 20

Nequals1 @ 14

I’m watching the Moyers impeachment video – it should be required watching for every member of Congress, IMHO.

Is it online? Link, please. Which of his shows is it?

Thanks,

Bob in HIWI

Try this.

diogenes @ 27

The netroots and grassroots are the hidden power, now rising to the surface.

I for one, was dismayed with Sen. Leahy’s performance vis a vis Ms. Taylor.

As grievance chair, I encountered the same smug intransigence when confronting the company. When I went into hearings expecting them to play be the rules (even the bare minimum), I lost. Management would flat out lie to my face, knowing I knew it but couldn’t prove it.

As a result, I learned to drill down and get documented evidence (management is intractably lazy). In the hearing, I’d let them do their song and dance, and then I’d stick the documented evidence proving otherwise up their ass. That was when I started winning.

In the Taylor hearings, why didn’t Leahy have a handful of EPA staffers testify as to the political nature of Taylor’s visit to counter her “I don’t recall” bullshit? Why didn’t he have Sampson in the wings when Taylor ran for “that’s privileged” cover?

Sen. Leahy was a prosecutor and is nobody’s fool. I’m sure he knows how to play this game far better than I. But he pulled his punches in the hearings, and for the life of me, I don’t understand why.

It sure pisses me off.

Your concern is address in the Frontline show about impeachment. essentially, it claims that Congress is abdicating its role to defend the Constitution and the theory is that it’s because members don’t understand that their job is to defend it. So instead, it’s party over country all the time.

That Frontline show is required watching for everyone.

Awwwww thanks, Ok Kiddo!

Nequals1 writes:
“Your concern is address in the Frontline show about impeachment. essentially, it claims that Congress is abdicating its role to defend the Constitution and the theory is that it’s because members don’t understand that their job is to defend it. So instead, it’s party over country all the time.

That Frontline show is required watching for everyone.”

KathieinMN says:

I just sent the URL for the transcript to Pelosi -is anyone else sending info to congresscritters?

diogenes @ 27

The netroots and grassroots are the hidden power, now rising to the surface.

I for one, was dismayed with Sen. Leahy’s performance vis a vis Ms. Taylor.

As grievance chair, I encountered the same smug intransigence when confronting the company. When I went into hearings expecting them to play be the rules (even the bare minimum), I lost. Management would flat out lie to my face, knowing I knew it but couldn’t prove it.

As a result, I learned to drill down and get documented evidence (management is intractably lazy). In the hearing, I’d let them do their song and dance, and then I’d stick the documented evidence proving otherwise up their ass. That was when I started winning.

In the Taylor hearings, why didn’t Leahy have a handful of EPA staffers testify as to the political nature of Taylor’s visit to counter her “I don’t recall” bullshit? Why didn’t he have Sampson in the wings when Taylor ran for “that’s privileged” cover?

Sen. Leahy was a prosecutor and is nobody’s fool. I’m sure he knows how to play this game far better than I. But he pulled his punches in the hearings, and for the life of me, I don’t understand why.

It sure pisses me off.

I’m hoping that it means they are collecting that information in their investigation and are waiting until enough people lie to congress to disclose it for maximum impact.

diogenes @ 27

The netroots and grassroots are the hidden power, now rising to the surface.

I for one, was dismayed with Sen. Leahy’s performance vis a vis Ms. Taylor.

As grievance chair, I encountered the same smug intransigence when confronting the company. When I went into hearings expecting them to play be the rules (even the bare minimum), I lost. Management would flat out lie to my face, knowing I knew it but couldn’t prove it.

As a result, I learned to drill down and get documented evidence (management is intractably lazy). In the hearing, I’d let them do their song and dance, and then I’d stick the documented evidence proving otherwise up their ass. That was when I started winning.

In the Taylor hearings, why didn’t Leahy have a handful of EPA staffers testify as to the political nature of Taylor’s visit to counter her “I don’t recall” bullshit? Why didn’t he have Sampson in the wings when Taylor ran for “that’s privileged” cover?

Sen. Leahy was a prosecutor and is nobody’s fool. I’m sure he knows how to play this game far better than I. But he pulled his punches in the hearings, and for the life of me, I don’t understand why.

It sure pisses me off.

Probably because he has no way to make a witness tell the truth or to punish them for perjury. Empty threats are worse than doing nothing. The only threat he can make at this time would be to tell a witness that if they lie, he will do everything in his power to see that they meet a grand jury after 01/20/09.

dakine01 @ 26

Lea-no uh @ 22

Well, a little above the tail actually in New Orleans. Also crossed in St Paul, St Louis, Memphis, Cairo and a couple of other places in between…

Memories of Cairo…My mother and I shared a motel room on the banks of the river by the railroad tracks. The room was grungy and dirty but nobody told us they were hosting an insect convention. The little waterbugs and mosquitos and crickets and flies all drunk and singing. A fine time was had by all in exotic Cairo…

diogenes @ 27

Sen. Leahy was a prosecutor and is nobody’s fool. I’m sure he knows how to play this game far better than I. But he pulled his punches in the hearings, and for the life of me, I don’t understand why.

It sure pisses me off.

Watching the hearings twice(!), both times I had the feeling Leahy was barely able to hold his temper, but was doing so in a very calculated way. I’m hoping he was simply making crystal clear for the record what Taylor’s position was on a whole string of points, without giving repugs any excuses to say he was badgering her and thereby unfairly tainting her testimony (miserably ludicrous though it was).

I wouldn’t give up yet. Let’s let him give the w.h. their 5 days to show they’re truly in contempt. I’m betting THEN the hammer will fall, HARD. At least that is my fervent wish.
OMG it’s hard to wait for his “?plan?” to play out.

The trail of destruction behind this administration is criminal, absolutely appalling!
I. Want. Them. ALL. In. Jail!

Nequals1 @ 28

bobschacht @ 20

Is it online? Link, please. Which of his shows is it?

Thanks,

Bob in HIWI

Try this.

Thanks! There’s also an excellent blog on it over at DailyKos with links to the transcript. In the comments, look especially for the comments by litigatormom.

Bob in HIWI

Audrey @ 34

dakine01 @ 26

Lea-no uh @ 22

Well, a little above the tail actually in New Orleans. Also crossed in St Paul, St Louis, Memphis, Cairo and a couple of other places in between…

Memories of Cairo…My mother and I shared a motel room on the banks of the river by the railroad tracks. The room was grungy and dirty but nobody told us they were hosting an insect convention. The little waterbugs and mosquitos and crickets and flies all drunk and singing. A fine time was had by all in exotic Cairo…

I grew up in Metropolis, about an hour from Cairo, and have relative all over So. Ill. That entire region is one big insect convention.

KathieinMN @ 31

I just sent the URL for the transcript to Pelosi -is anyone else sending info to congresscritters?

ohhhh yes. been doin’ our best. ongoing.
THANK YOU for your efforts. ;->

Lea-no uh @ 37

Audrey @ 34

Memories of Cairo…My mother and I shared a motel room on the banks of the river by the railroad tracks. The room was grungy and dirty but nobody told us they were hosting an insect convention. The little waterbugs and mosquitos and crickets and flies all drunk and singing. A fine time was had by all in exotic Cairo…

I grew up in Metropolis, about an hour from Cairo, and have relative all over So. Ill. That entire region is one big insect convention.

I grew up in north central Kentucky (35 miles north of Lexington, 60 miles south of Cincy). My mother freaked out driving over the bridge at Cairo which is when I found out that she hated driving/riding over long bridges.

In addition to the key message of the Moyers panel being that the constitutional crisis is Bush’s assertion of unprecedented powers, it will be important to challenge his Republican apologists and enablers as putting party ahead of country

KathieinMN @ 31

Nequals1 writes:
“Your concern is address in the Frontline show about impeachment. essentially, it claims that Congress is abdicating its role to defend the Constitution and the theory is that it’s because members don’t understand that their job is to defend it. So instead, it’s party over country all the time.

That Frontline show is required watching for everyone.”

KathieinMN says:

I just sent the URL for the transcript to Pelosi -is anyone else sending info to congresscritters?

How about mass emailing the Speaker’s blog, The Gavel? That will at least get her attention, I hope.

Happy Blogiversary over at WSJ.com. I see a familiar FDL name over there. And Moyers Journal (on PBS) discussion of impeachment with Fein and Nicolls? well worth the viewing in my opinion.

The Moyer’s piece really clarified the importance of impeachment as a defense of the Constitution and our system of government. However, after watching the Taylor and Miers’ hearings, I am concerned that impeachment proceedings would not be able to move quickly enough to conclude within my lifetime…and I’m 40 and healthy. It’s frustrating.

I’m getting real fed up with this new Vista Ultimate. I can’t watch Moyers. Windows Media gives me the little red x in the upper left. Quiktime gives a white screen, after I just downloaded the latest version. I suppose transcripts will have to do for now but I do so much enjoy my Moyers live.

Oh, and after an hour and a half on the phone the other day with Canon to get the new MP160 printer working, it stopped printing yesterday. Damn your eyes Microsoft!

(Yeah, yeah, I know… Mac.)

:)

Lea-no uh @ 37

Audrey @ 34

Memories of Cairo…My mother and I shared a motel room on the banks of the river by the railroad tracks. The room was grungy and dirty but nobody told us they were hosting an insect convention. The little waterbugs and mosquitos and crickets and flies all drunk and singing. A fine time was had by all in exotic Cairo…

I grew up in Metropolis, about an hour from Cairo, and have relative all over So. Ill. That entire region is one big insect convention.

Heh heh. Good thing neither Mom nor I are squeamish about that stuff having lived in other popular convention sites…but none as popular as that. :)

wangdangdoodle @ 44

I’m getting real fed up with this new Vista Ultimate. I can’t watch Moyers. Windows Media gives me the little red x in the upper left. Quiktime gives a white screen, after I just downloaded the latest version. I suppose transcripts will have to do for now but I do so much enjoy my Moyers live.

Oh, and after an hour and a half on the phone the other day with Canon to get the new MP160 printer working, it stopped printing yesterday. Damn your eyes Microsoft!

(Yeah, yeah, I know… Mac.)

:)

you can listen to the moyer’s show by podcast (no pictures, but at least you get to hear the voices)

Does anyone know if Schuster usually hosts MSNBC on Saturday mornings?

He was on for several hours today……between the Lake, stirring the (sometime in this century) tomato sauce and an unexpected visitor, I didn’t listen to much of it but what I heard was much better fare than usual.

dakine01 @ 39

Lea-no uh @ 37

I grew up in north central Kentucky (35 miles north of Lexington, 60 miles south of Cincy). My mother freaked out driving over the bridge at Cairo which is when I found out that she hated driving/riding over long bridges.

Now that does make me squeamish.

Thanks Selise, but I get “the webpage cannot be displayed”. I’ll go search the web to see if there’s a program I can download to play it.

blrrb

dakine01 @ 16

Phoenix Woman,
I can make a rather stupid claim in that I have driven over the Mississippi at its head, middle AND tail…

Not dumb at all! I’ve walked over it at its very head, myself. ;-)

How is everyone? Was out biking the Vento trail this morning and got back a touch late.

OT..but worth a read for many reasons.

Saturday :: Jul 14, 2007
Impeachment May Be Unnecessary

by paradox

I was wanly remembering Steve Gilliard this morning, wishing I could get logistical retreat analysis of Baghdad and knowing my ignorance would just be a little greater today with him gone. Gilliard was a very good military analyst (described correctly by Sarah Robinson as the core competency of the site), but besides the posts about cooking and relationships I also sorely miss those Gilliard predictions.

It was hilarious, every once in a great while Steve would get this itch to proclaim the future, to boldly go where no man has intellectually gone before, simply oblivious to comically failed proclamations of the past. It was charming, but the funny part was always the immediate cascade of boos, catcalls, and fierce fun snark that would flow in the comments, his little blog community ferociously defending reality and science, yet happily accepting this tiny shortcoming from Steve, eventually in the thread he’d eventually say yeah, I was wrong that time, but…

Yet I always took one prediction from Gilliard very seriously: impeachment of Bush wouldn’t be necessary, for sometime late in the term Bush will resign as the retreat from Baghdad erupts into a horrifying conflagration of failure. One can scoff all one wants, it’s certainly merited, but for some reason that prediction always had a sharp poignancy for me and I’m watching very closely next 17 months to see what really happens. (more..)

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/010657.php

question…
If Vitter resigns do we have a chance for another Dem Senator?

bg @ 17

We have family pictures of wading in the waters at Lake Minnetonka, or maybe that is a park. Is it Lake Itaska that is the headwater of the Mississippi?

Yupper. It’s only about fifteen feet across when it leaves Itasca. There’s a little pathway of stones that serves as a footpath through it.

My mother is from Minneapolis, so we spent some summer times in Mpls/StPaul.

Good for you (and her)!

C&l point out not one democrat on abc

here’s the link to their comment page, pay them a visit and do give them a piece of your mind

snowbird42 @ 52

question…
If Vitter resigns do we have a chance for another Dem Senator?

If he resigns while Kathleen Blanco is governor: Yes. But she’s not going to be governor much longer — he’s going to see if he can hold out until the fall elections, when Piyush “Bobby” Jindal will almost certainly win and appoint his successor.

Over at Balkinization, Jack has a very useful post on the concept of “constitutional hardball” and how the Bushites have played the game. Strongly recommended.

Phoenix Woman @ 55

snowbird42 @ 52

question…
If Vitter resigns do we have a chance for another Dem Senator?

If he resigns while Kathleen Blanco is governor: Yes. But she’s not going to be governor much longer — he’s going to see if he can hold out until the fall elections, when Piyush “Bobby” Jindal will almost certainly win and appoint his successor.

Which could get verrrry interesting as Jindal is supposed to be tied quite closely to Vitter himself. Don’t know when the change of office is for LA after the elections. In KY I believe it is first Tuesday in December (anticipating a new Dem Gov there).

Congrats on your note in the WSJ today Jane Hamsher. Crisp as usual.

janda @ 32

I’m hoping that it means they are collecting that information in their investigation and are waiting until enough people lie to congress to disclose it for maximum impact.

DING! We have a winner.

Between all of the testimony behind closed doors (which Leahy & Conyers pounced on, before those testifying had a chance to get their stories straight) and the contradictory testimony in public, they’re amassing quite an interesting bit of evidence. I think they’re building a case for “the Democrats took impeachment off the table, but the corrupt Republicans put it back on”.

Leahy and his colleagues were tough, but nice enough to Taylor to make it seem ridiculous that Miers wouldn’t even SHOW UP. This will anger the public. It makes the conspiracy and obstruction by the President’s Office very clear, and the public will be frothing at the mouth in another week or two. They’ll be demanding the truth, and the Democrats can’t be justly accused of being mean nor ignoring Congressional rules & protocol.

dakine01 @ 57

Phoenix Woman @ 55

If he resigns while Kathleen Blanco is governor: Yes. But she’s not going to be governor much longer — he’s going to see if he can hold out until the fall elections, when Piyush “Bobby” Jindal will almost certainly win and appoint his successor.

Which could get verrrry interesting as Jindal is supposed to be tied quite closely to Vitter himself. Don’t know when the change of office is for LA after the elections. In KY I believe it is first Tuesday in December (anticipating a new Dem Gov there).

thanks and they have an election this fall?

Inching closer to war with Iran?

Minister of Strategic Affairs Avigdor Lieberman warned Saturday that Iran’s announcement it would allow UN officials to inspect its nuclear reactors is a diversionary tactic.

The rightwing Yisrael Beiteinu party head said the Islamic Republic’s permission for International Atomic Energy Agency members to return to the reactors after they had been banished is an attempt by Tehran to “buy time.”

“The world must not fall into this trap and should continue to push for further sanctions against Iran,” Lieberman said,

wangdangdoodle @ 49

Thanks Selise, but I get “the webpage cannot be displayed”. I’ll go search the web to see if there’s a program I can download to play it.

blrrb

that’s the feed for the podcast. hmmm… show’s up in my browser (but then, i’m not using a pc *g*).

do you use itunes or something else for podcasts? you can submit that link in the “subscribe to podcast” function (since it’s the feed url).

good luck, i’d be going nuts with all those problems.

GeorgeSimian @ 19

Another job well done…

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07…..ia.html?hp

Russia withdraws from cold war treaty. Good job, Bush.

This is in response to our run up to war with Iran. Putin doesn’t want it. It’s a threat to his security if we control the oil in Iran and Iraq. Look for China to do something too, if we don’t start backing off.

snowbird42 @ 60

dakine01 @ 57

Which could get verrrry interesting as Jindal is supposed to be tied quite closely to Vitter himself. Don’t know when the change of office is for LA after the elections. In KY I believe it is first Tuesday in December (anticipating a new Dem Gov there).

thanks and they have an election this fall?

Kentucky and Louisiana both have gov elections this year. KY has already had the primaries with the incumbent crook R (Ernie Fletcher) going against a former Lt Gov, Dem Steve Beshear.

LA primaries yet to happen.

snowbird42 @ 60

dakine01 @ 57

Which could get verrrry interesting as Jindal is supposed to be tied quite closely to Vitter himself. Don’t know when the change of office is for LA after the elections. In KY I believe it is first Tuesday in December (anticipating a new Dem Gov there).

thanks and they have an election this fall?

this fall, yes…
folks say mebbe mitch landrieu will be the dem nominee…he could beat jindall–or coulda, with a pre-katrina base in nola…
now, much closer…
.

janda @ 32 & adie @ 35,

I hope y’all are right.

Steve-AR @ 33,

I’m afraid you’re right. Watching this bunch of goopers is sooo redolent of my corporate days (unsurprising, I know!).

To get a gooper/corporatist’s attention, you must have the power to subtract a sizable chunk of loot from them, cost them their job, or put them in jail. If you can’t you are wasting your time.

These bastards drove folks guided by reason (who ever thought you’d long for Bob Dole, ferchrissakes?) out of their party long ago, and you cannot reason with them.

“You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot farther with a smile and a gun.”
Al Capone

boxer @ 63

GeorgeSimian @ 19

Another job well done…

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07…..ia.html?hp

Russia withdraws from cold war treaty. Good job, Bush.

This is in response to our run up to war with Iran. Putin doesn’t want it. It’s a threat to his security if we control the oil in Iran and Iraq. Look for China to do something too, if we don’t start backing off.

I’ll say again that I think Putin told The Chimp some hard truths when they were in Kennebunkport, namely that if we went after Iran, he would launch against us.

Landofthefree, 59:

Not to mention how angry citizens will be if and when they they find out that the WH is withholding documents related to the lies surrounding the death of Pat Tillman. The public may not care so much about the USAs, etc., but they will be able to relate to the blocking of an investigation by the WH of one of their sports heroes. Interestingly, I haven’t heard anything from the MSM about this yet. Seems it takes them 2-3 days after something appears on the web for it to appear on Teevee…

Oklahoma kiddo @ 61

Inching closer to war with Iran?

Minister of Strategic Affairs Avigdor Lieberman warned Saturday that Iran’s announcement it would allow UN officials to inspect its nuclear reactors is a diversionary tactic.

The rightwing Yisrael Beiteinu party head said the Islamic Republic’s permission for International Atomic Energy Agency members to return to the reactors after they had been banished is an attempt by Tehran to “buy time.”

“The world must not fall into this trap and should continue to push for further sanctions against Iran,” Lieberman said,

i made a long comment yesterday with lots of links on iran situation (especially w/ regard to congress).

forgot to include the bit on “Iran Asks Japan to Pay Yen for Oil, Start Immediately“

am thinking i should just put up a page i can keep adding to… things seem to be moving quickly now and not in a good direction.

“The Scooter Libby affair gets to the heart of what, I think, an awful lot of Americans are concerned about with this administration and with the executive branch in general: that it is lawless. That it can re-write the rules for itself. That it can protect itself. And you know the founders anticipated just such a moment. If you look at the discussion in the Federalist Papers, but also in the Constitutional Convention, when they spoke about impeachment one of the things that Madison and George Mason spoke about was the notion that you needed the power to impeach particularly as regards pardons and commutations. Because a president might try to take the burden of the law off members of his administration to prevent them from cooperating with congress in order to expose wrong-doing by the President himself. And so, Madison said that is why we must have the power to impeach.”

John Nichols, author of “The Genius of Impeachment.” (from the Bill Moyer’s Show)

boxer @ 63

GeorgeSimian @ 19

Another job well done…

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07…..ia.html?hp

Russia withdraws from cold war treaty. Good job, Bush.

This is in response to our run up to war with Iran. Putin doesn’t want it. It’s a threat to his security if we control the oil in Iran and Iraq. Look for China to do something too, if we don’t start backing off.

very interesting iran analysis here (via war and piece)

dakine01 @ 67

boxer @ 63

This is in response to our run up to war with Iran. Putin doesn’t want it. It’s a threat to his security if we control the oil in Iran and Iraq. Look for China to do something too, if we don’t start backing off.

I’ll say again that I think Putin told The Chimp some hard truths when they were in Kennebunkport, namely that if we went after Iran, he would launch against us.

Dead on.

wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 65

snowbird42 @ 60

thanks and they have an election this fall?

this fall, yes…
folks say mebbe mitch landrieu will be the dem nominee…he could beat jindall–or coulda, with a pre-katrina base in nola…
now, much closer…
.

Well if he is really begging to be diapered he’ll have to leave right away.

But the president’s power of pardon is plenary. Or is it?

George Mason (1725-1792), the father of the Bill of Rights (1791-2002), argued at the Constitutional Convention in favor of providing the House of Representatives the power of impeachment by pointing out that the President might use his pardoning power to “pardon crimes which were advised by himself” or, before indictment or conviction, “to stop inquiry and prevent detection.”
James Madison (1751-1836), the father of the U.S. Constitution (1788-2007), added that “if the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds to believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty.”

But that was like 200 years ago. Got anything more recent?

“I think, for example, that no one would contend that a [Chief Executive] could ignore the commands of the Equal Protection Clause and use … political affiliation as a standard for granting or denying clemency.” Ohio Adult Parole Auth. v. Woodard, 523 U.S. 272, 292 (1998) (Justice Stevens, concurring in part and dissenting in part.)

I just requested to join Fertik’s Facebook group.
The Nationwide Movement to Impeach Cheney and Bush
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3079705569

Seems like a good idea.

LS @ 68

Landofthefree, 59:

Not to mention how angry citizens will be if and when they they find out that the WH is withholding documents related to the lies surrounding the death of Pat Tillman. The public may not care so much about the USAs, etc., but they will be able to relate to the blocking of an investigation by the WH of one of their sports heroes. Interestingly, I haven’t heard anything from the MSM about this yet. Seems it takes them 2-3 days after something appears on the web for it to appear on Teevee…

LS,
Page A3 of today’s WaPo0

Edit: and a number of familiar names in the comments…

selise, You probably have this in mind but just in case don’t forget.

About 200,000 troops in SE Turkey-security sources

DIYARBAKIR, Turkey, July 13 (Reuters) – Turkey’s army has boosted troop levels in the southeast to more than 200,000, most of them stationed along the border with Iraq, security sources told Reuters on Friday.

BigMitch @ 70 -

lots of good quotes from bill moyers last night. here’s a couple i especially liked:

JOHN NICHOLS: Nancy Pelosi is wrong. Nancy Pelosi is disregarding her oath of office. She should change course now.

JOHN NICHOLS: You are seeing impeachment as a constitutional crisis. Impeachment is the cure for a constitutional crisis. Don’t mistake the medicine for the disease. When you have a constitutional crisis, the founders are very clear. They said there is a way to deal with this. We don’t have to have a war. We don’t have to raise an army and go to Washington. We have procedures in place where we can sanction a president appropriately, do what needs to be done up to the point of removing him from office and continue the republic.

boxer @ 72

dakine01 @ 67

I’ll say again that I think Putin told The Chimp some hard truths when they were in Kennebunkport, namely that if we went after Iran, he would launch against us.

Dead on.

That may explain why they are suddenly supposedly removing 2 of the 3 carriers in the Gulf after the Putin visit. How ironic, maybe Putin will save us…

Landofthefree, 59:

Not to mention how angry citizens will be if and when they they find out that the WH is withholding documents related to the lies surrounding the death of Pat Tillman. The public may not care so much about the USAs, etc., but they will be able to relate to the blocking of an investigation by the WH of one of their sports heroes. Interestingly, I haven’t heard anything from the MSM about this yet. Seems it takes them 2-3 days after something appears on the web for it to appear on Teevee…

KO led with the story on Countdown, and came back to it with each of first two guests. Also announced that he will be going into the story “in depth” on Monday.

Eureka Springs @ 78

selise, You probably have this in mind but just in case don’t forget.

About 200,000 troops in SE Turkey-security sources

DIYARBAKIR, Turkey, July 13 (Reuters) – Turkey’s army has boosted troop levels in the southeast to more than 200,000, most of them stationed along the border with Iraq, security sources told Reuters on Friday.

The Chimp’s minions denied emphatically that there were ANY Turkish troop movements on the Iraqi border.
They promised….

snowbird42 @ 73

wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 65

this fall, yes…
folks say mebbe mitch landrieu will be the dem nominee…he could beat jindall–or coulda, with a pre-katrina base in nola…
now, much closer…
.

Well if he is really begging to be diapered he’ll have to leave right away.

I wish that were the case. The Vitter thing is slipping away from us.

http://www.thenewsstar.com/app…..14/OPINION

http://www.thenewsstar.com/app…..14/OPINION

dakine01 @ 77

LS @ 68

Landofthefree, 59:

Not to mention how angry citizens will be if and when they they find out that the WH is withholding documents related to the lies surrounding the death of Pat Tillman. The public may not care so much about the USAs, etc., but they will be able to relate to the blocking of an investigation by the WH of one of their sports heroes. Interestingly, I haven’t heard anything from the MSM about this yet. Seems it takes them 2-3 days after something appears on the web for it to appear on Teevee…

LS,
Page A3 of today’s WaPo0

Edit: and a number of familiar names in the comments…

Thanks!! Great comments in there!!! Big Mitch, TSF…

boxer @ 83

snowbird42 @ 73

Well if he is really begging to be diapered he’ll have to leave right away.

I wish that were the case. The Vitter thing is slipping away from us.

http://www.thenewsstar.com/app…..14/OPINION

http://www.thenewsstar.com/app…..14/OPINION

forgot this one:
http://www.thenewsstar.com/app…..14/OPINION

Eureka Springs @ 78

selise, You probably have this in mind but just in case don’t forget.

About 200,000 troops in SE Turkey-security sources

DIYARBAKIR, Turkey, July 13 (Reuters) – Turkey’s army has boosted troop levels in the southeast to more than 200,000, most of them stationed along the border with Iraq, security sources told Reuters on Friday.

shit! i thought it was “only” 140,000 (that was bad enough).

The unusually large-scale buildup, which includes tanks, heavy artillery and aircraft, is part of a security crackdown on Kurdish rebels hiding in southeast Turkey and northern Iraq, said the security sources, who declined to be named.

let’s see… if i was in charge of security for turkey. and i was thinking that the usa might attack iran, which would cause all hell to break loose in iraq (as shia there attacked american troops)… what might i do? oh yeah, build up troop levels at my border with iraq.

please, will some tell me there are other ways to connect the dots of the last few weeks? i don’t like the picture i’m getting.

boxer @ 85

boxer @ 83

I wish that were the case. The Vitter thing is slipping away from us.

http://www.thenewsstar.com/app…..14/OPINION

http://www.thenewsstar.com/app…..14/OPINION

forgot this one:
http://www.thenewsstar.com/app…..14/OPINION

Links don’t work but I searched and read a few.
At least if he stays out of sight he wont be there to vote.

LS @ 80

boxer @ 72

Dead on.

That may explain why they are suddenly supposedly removing 2 of the 3 carriers in the Gulf after the Putin visit. How ironic, maybe Putin will save us…

well congress has just told the world that they are with bush on the whole iran thing… so what can we expect putin and others to do? count on usa congress to check usa presidential insanity? i don’t think so.

Wow. Check out this story and see how it relates to McKay!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..20311/1202

The post uses imagery to such excellent effect!

Bravo!

That’s the thing about water: It can run through your fingers. But it can also move mountains.

LS @ 84

dakine01 @ 77

LS,
Page A3 of today’s WaPo0

Edit: and a number of familiar names in the comments…

Thanks!! Great comments in there!!! Big Mitch, TSF…

At the bottom of TRex’s late late night I blogged some of the Tillman hearing and put links to the hearing. Hope it helps.

selise @ 88

LS @ 80

That may explain why they are suddenly supposedly removing 2 of the 3 carriers in the Gulf after the Putin visit. How ironic, maybe Putin will save us…

well congress has just told the world that they are with bush on the whole iran thing… so what can we expect putin and others to do? count on usa congress to check usa presidential insanity? i don’t think so.

If Putin told Bush in no uncertain terms that he considers an attack on Iran to be attacking Russia’s interests, this may get interesting really fast.

If one looks at the big picture of the Middle East, and factors in Bush and Putin’s latest, moves’, along with the Pakistan situation etc., can the conclusion be drawn othewise than that the Mideast is going to explode and that there will be a major expansion of conflict in the region, and perhaps elsewhere?

selise @ 62

wangdangdoodle @ 49

Thanks Selise, but I get “the webpage cannot be displayed”. I’ll go search the web to see if there’s a program I can download to play it.

blrrb

that’s the feed for the podcast. hmmm… show’s up in my browser (but then, i’m not using a pc *g*).

do you use itunes or something else for podcasts? you can submit that link in the “subscribe to podcast” function (since it’s the feed url).

good luck, i’d be going nuts with all those problems.

Thank you, Selise!! Apparently I downloaded Quiktime but didn’t install it. (Doh!) So I subscribed to iTunes like you suggested and it came with Quiktime. Only this time I installed the sucker. I’ve got Bill running on the other tab now.

Dakine @ 57:

Which could get verrrry interesting as Jindal is supposed to be tied quite closely to Vitter himself.

Uh-huh. The only guy closer is David Duke.

In fact, if Vitter stays in, his ties to Jindal aren’t going to be very helpful to Jindal.

The little f thingies next to our names may have little bars over them soon. Mark Zuckerberg, the facebook owner, is being sued by three young men who went to college with him. They claim he stole their code. It is their goal to close down Facebook.

Selise 88,

As I understood it, Congress was siding with Bush regarding attacks by Iran in Iraq, i.e., that they could retaliate over the border on training camps of insurgents. I didn’t think it had anything to do with the nuclear thing, but I may be wrong. I think Putin would be most concerned with a potential attack on the 200 plus targets related to the nuclear energy development.

After this latest reaction by the Congress on Iran, please… don’t anyone lecture me on how I should be more patient with my party, the Democratic Party.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 93

If one looks at the big picture of the Middle East, and factors in Bush and Putin’s latest, moves’, along with the Pakistan situation etc., can the conclusion be drawn othewise than that the Mideast is going to explode and that there will be a major expansion of conflict in the region, and perhaps elsewhere?

We have some time, but that will be the eventual outcome unless we move away from petroleum based energy. The world does not have enough to satisfy U.S., China, India, Russia, Western Europe, and Japan. States will either move away from oil dependence or fight for it. Those are the only choices they have to survive.

The only thing that surprises me about Putin’s latest move (treaty pullout) is, what took him so long?

marymccurnin @ 96

The little f thingies next to our names may have little bars over them soon. Mark Zuckerberg, the facebook owner, is being sued by three young men who went to college with him. They claim he stole their code. It is their goal to close down Facebook.

The “Facebook” thing was a huge leap…but if we go to MySpace that will be asking a lot.

marymccurnin @ 96

The little f thingies next to our names may have little bars over them soon. Mark Zuckerberg, the facebook owner, is being sued by three young men who went to college with him. They claim he stole their code. It is their goal to close down Facebook.

Oh dear. So how do I get a little blue f thingie next to my name here? I signed up on facebook and joined the FDL Group. Is there something I need to enable?

boxer @ 99

Oklahoma kiddo @ 93

If one looks at the big picture of the Middle East, and factors in Bush and Putin’s latest, moves’, along with the Pakistan situation etc., can the conclusion be drawn othewise than that the Mideast is going to explode and that there will be a major expansion of conflict in the region, and perhaps elsewhere?

We have some time, but that will be the eventual outcome unless we move away from petroleum based energy. The world does not have enough to satisfy U.S., China, India, Russia, Western Europe, and Japan. States will either move away from oil dependence or fight for it. Those are the only choices they have to survive.

Gore?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 93

If one looks at the big picture of the Middle East, and factors in Bush and Putin’s latest, moves’, along with the Pakistan situation etc., can the conclusion be drawn othewise than that the Mideast is going to explode and that there will be a major expansion of conflict in the region, and perhaps elsewhere?

OKK – do you remember when zbigniew brzezinski testified before the senate foreign relations committee in january (transcript, mp3)? here’s a bit:

If the United States continues to be bogged down in protracted, bloody involvement in Iraq — and I emphasize what I am about to say — the final destination on this downhill track is likely to be a head-on conflict with Iran, and with much of the world of Islam at large.

A plausible scenario for a military collision with Iran involves Iraqi failure to meet the benchmarks, followed by accusations of Iranian responsibility for the failure, then by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the United States blamed on Iran, culminating in a quote-unquote “defensive” U.S. military action against Iran that plunges a lonely America into a spreading and deepening quagmire, eventually ranging across Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

marymccurnin @ 96

The little f thingies next to our names may have little bars over them soon. Mark Zuckerberg, the facebook owner, is being sued by three young men who went to college with him. They claim he stole their code. It is their goal to close down Facebook.

Facebook in Litigation 2.0

A long-simmering dispute over the origins of Facebook is set to erupt later this month at a federal court hearing about whether Mark Zuckerberg, the young web mogul now being feted by media honchos, stole the original code for his booming social network from three Harvard classmates.

The lawsuit, filed by brothers Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, and Divya Narendra, accuses Zuckerberg, Facebook’s 23-year-old C.E.O, of stealing the source code, design, and business plan for Facebook in 2003 when he briefly worked in the Harvard dorms as a programmer for their own fledgling social-networking site, now known as ConnectU.

The plaintiffs have demanded that Facebook be shut down and that full control of the site – and its profits – be turned over to them.

LS @ 92

If Putin told Bush in no uncertain terms that he considers an attack on Iran to be attacking Russia’s interests, this may get interesting really fast.

The “sense of the Senate” thing is meaningless. It was just the Senate saying “Yeah, yeah, Ahmendiwhathisname’s a bad guy, so we’ll officially so but we won’t give you any actual authority to do anything stupid.”

Removing two of the three carriers is actually much more important, as it makes an attack on Iran anytime within the next six months all but impossible. Even if Bush wanted to attack Iran right away, the carriers have to be resupplied and refitted for a minimum of several weeks/months, followed by a three-week trip back out to the Gulf.

Bush doesn’t dare attack Iran this fall. That would be the one thing that would cause members of his own party to vote to impeach him — not because attacking Iran is a horrifically bad idea, but because it would hand the Democrats supermajorities in Congress for the next decade.

LS @ 68

Landofthefree, 59:

Not to mention how angry citizens will be if and when they they find out that the WH is withholding documents related to the lies surrounding the death of Pat Tillman. The public may not care so much about the USAs, etc., but they will be able to relate to the blocking of an investigation by the WH of one of their sports heroes. Interestingly, I haven’t heard anything from the MSM about this yet. Seems it takes them 2-3 days after something appears on the web for it to appear on Teevee…

You’re right, LS. And the Tillman stonewall story is a made-for-TV moment. Look for it to be a big story on Monday, unless the corporate media warlords squash it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews

My wife’s cousin, a senior at Tipton High turned 18 and wanted to enlist but was turned away for severe asthma. Thank God! His father was adamantly against it and it caused extreme family tension.
Small town Amerika has borne the brunt of this fiasco. I hear nothing positive here in NE Iowa.

STOP THE DAMN WAR NOW!

ps. if I screwed up the linky it is front page WAPO today

selise @ 104

Oklahoma kiddo @ 93

If one looks at the big picture of the Middle East, and factors in Bush and Putin’s latest, moves’, along with the Pakistan situation etc., can the conclusion be drawn othewise than that the Mideast is going to explode and that there will be a major expansion of conflict in the region, and perhaps elsewhere?

OKK – do you remember when zbigniew brzezinski testified before the senate foreign relations committee in january (transcript, mp3)? here’s a bit:

If the United States continues to be bogged down in protracted, bloody involvement in Iraq — and I emphasize what I am about to say — the final destination on this downhill track is likely to be a head-on conflict with Iran, and with much of the world of Islam at large.

A plausible scenario for a military collision with Iran involves Iraqi failure to meet the benchmarks, followed by accusations of Iranian responsibility for the failure, then by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the United States blamed on Iran, culminating in a quote-unquote “defensive” U.S. military action against Iran that plunges a lonely America into a spreading and deepening quagmire, eventually ranging across Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

“or a terrorist act in the United States blamed on Iran” Interesting choice of words…makes me want to revisit 9/11.

marymccurnin @ 96

The little f thingies next to our names may have little bars over them soon. Mark Zuckerberg, the facebook owner, is being sued by three young men who went to college with him. They claim he stole their code. It is their goal to close down Facebook.

HI Mary:

Did you ever receive the two emails I sent with links for you and your daughter? Just wondering – I’m notorious for sending things into the ether.

LS @ 97

Selise 88,

As I understood it, Congress was siding with Bush regarding attacks by Iran in Iraq, i.e., that they could retaliate over the border on training camps of insurgents. I didn’t think it had anything to do with the nuclear thing, but I may be wrong. I think Putin would be most concerned with a potential attack on the 200 plus targets related to the nuclear energy development.

1) see info on h.con.r.21 in my link above.
2) i don’t think there is an option for a “small” attack on iran (that targets “training camps” for example). do we expect iran not to respond? we already have reports of covert cia ops aimed at regime change going on in iran.

LS…

OKK – do you remember when zbigniew brzezinski testified before the senate foreign relations committee in january (transcript, mp3)? here’s a bit:

I recall this. I like Zbig. ;0)

Steve-AR @ 51

*snip* Yet I always took one prediction from Gilliard very seriously: impeachment of Bush wouldn’t be necessary, for sometime late in the term Bush will resign as the retreat from Baghdad erupts into a horrifying conflagration of failure. One can scoff all one wants, it’s certainly merited, but for some reason that prediction always had a sharp poignancy for me and I’m watching very closely next 17 months to see what really happens. (more..)

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/010657.php

alas, a “retreat from Baghdad [that] erupts into a horrifying conflagration of failure” has been a sore worry of mine for a long time. I’ve read too much military history to scoff at this prediction.
I am one of the multitude that miss Steve Gilliard.

This is way off topic, but I just wanted to get it off my chest and point you to some interesting stuff.

I heard Bush’s address to the nation today, saying that our little war in Iraq is going pretty well, and we need to stay there. Then, I heard that Iraqi Prime Minister al-Maliki say clearly that the US can leave at any time, that the Iraqi army can handle things (and would do it better if we weren’t there meddling) – they just need some weapons from us, and they wish we’d leave.

Then, I saw a brilliant little piece on TPM that summarizes how our mission in Iraq has continually and dramatically changed over time.

All of this encouraged me to write this (link to dKos comment in the story about how al-Maliki basically told the US to leave).

Love your thoughts & comments.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 98

After this latest reaction by the Congress on Iran, please… don’t anyone lecture me on how I should be more patient with my party, the Democratic Party.

Again: If Bush is going to attack Iran right now, why is he pulling two of the three carriers out of the Persian Gulf? He needs all three to actually pull off an attack.

Remember, the stuff the Senate voted on, contrary to all the handwringing, was either meaningless “sense of the Senate” stuff with no actual content other than to say “we agree that Iran’s leaders are naughty, but we’re not coughing up the dough or the AUMF needed to attack them”, or the bill Lieberman pushed which directed the Pentagon to determine just how big a role Iran really is playing in Iraq. The generals will come back in a few months (if at all) with an official report that will say “not much of one”, and that will be that.

Because, again, if Bush tries to attack Iran in the fall of this year or the spring of next year, he will have guaranteed the GOP goes down in flames in ‘08. To the point where we will have veto-proof majorities even if by some miracle another Republican wins the White House.

I wonder when Michael Moore will have enough money to buy a news channel? Anyone know if he has he ever stopped by the lake?

I want to thank selise for staying on top of the iran situation. This sort of thing easily slips under the radar. Also your netrootsmass pages have been quite helpful to me.

Phoenix Woman @ 106

LS @ 92

If Putin told Bush in no uncertain terms that he considers an attack on Iran to be attacking Russia’s interests, this may get interesting really fast.

The “sense of the Senate” thing is meaningless. It was just the Senate saying “Yeah, yeah, Ahmendiwhathisname’s a bad guy, so we’ll officially so but we won’t give you any actual authority to do anything stupid.”

Removing two of the three carriers is actually much more important, as it makes an attack on Iran anytime within the next six months all but impossible. Even if Bush wanted to attack Iran right away, the carriers have to be resupplied and refitted for a minimum of several weeks/months, followed by a three-week trip back out to the Gulf.

Bush doesn’t dare attack Iran this fall. That would be the one thing that would cause members of his own party to vote to impeach him — not because attacking Iran is a horrifically bad idea, but because it would hand the Democrats supermajorities in Congress for the next decade.

i disagree that the “sense of the senate” is meaningless. in a campaign of rhetoric and propaganda – words matter. did you see the c-span coverage of the senate floor? and the house bill asked for specific action by the UN security council.

i do agree that what happens with the carriers is key. i will feel much better when we are done to one in the region. that’s not yet, to my knowledge, the case…. when it is i will breathe more comfortably.

selise @ 111

LS @ 97

Selise 88,

As I understood it, Congress was siding with Bush regarding attacks by Iran in Iraq, i.e., that they could retaliate over the border on training camps of insurgents. I didn’t think it had anything to do with the nuclear thing, but I may be wrong. I think Putin would be most concerned with a potential attack on the 200 plus targets related to the nuclear energy development.

1) see info on h.con.r.21 in my link above.
2) i don’t think there is an option for a “small” attack on iran (that targets “training camps” for example). do we expect iran not to respond? we already have reports of covert cia ops aimed at regime change going on in iran.

Thanks Selise. Great info!! Egads…

selize…

Perhaps my response (#112) should have gone to you. Sorry. ;0)

I wonder if the increase in Turkish/ Kurdish tensions will play any part in the “possible” Iranian adventure?

My apologies for the OT on Iraq and Tipton Iowa. The article pissed me off so much I wanted to share it with the community. Again My humble apologies for the OT

newdealfarmgrrrlll @ 113

Steve-AR @ 51

*snip* Yet I always took one prediction from Gilliard very seriously: impeachment of Bush wouldn’t be necessary, for sometime late in the term Bush will resign as the retreat from Baghdad erupts into a horrifying conflagration of failure. One can scoff all one wants, it’s certainly merited, but for some reason that prediction always had a sharp poignancy for me and I’m watching very closely next 17 months to see what really happens. (more..)

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/010657.php

alas, a “retreat from Baghdad [that] erupts into a horrifying conflagration of failure” has been a sore worry of mine for a long time. I’ve read too much military history to scoff at this prediction.
I am one of the multitude that miss Steve Gilliard.

I glad this came back up. I posted a few months back about the dinner I had where I sat beside a returning colonel. He stated that we were in fact cut-off, and that if we wanted to withdraw without taking major casualties, we would have to mount a re-invasion.

selise @ 111

LS @ 97

Selise 88,

As I understood it, Congress was siding with Bush regarding attacks by Iran in Iraq, i.e., that they could retaliate over the border on training camps of insurgents. I didn’t think it had anything to do with the nuclear thing, but I may be wrong. I think Putin would be most concerned with a potential attack on the 200 plus targets related to the nuclear energy development.

1) see info on h.con.r.21 in my link above.
2) i don’t think there is an option for a “small” attack on iran (that targets “training camps” for example). do we expect iran not to respond? we already have reports of covert cia ops aimed at regime change going on in iran.

With two of the three carriers going home (and unable to return for a minimum of four months — and that’s a bare minimum), Bush can’t attack Iran now. Period. Not anytime before November.

And if he does try it after November, he’s going to piss off members of his own party, because he’ll have guaranteed that the Democrats will not only win all three branches next year, but by filibuster-proof margins.

Jim Clausen @ 108

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews

My wife’s cousin, a senior at Tipton High turned 18 and wanted to enlist but was turned away for severe asthma. Thank God! His father was adamantly against it and it caused extreme family tension.
Small town Amerika has borne the brunt of this fiasco. I hear nothing positive here in NE Iowa.

STOP THE DAMN WAR NOW!

ps. if I screwed up the linky it is front page WAPO today

Here is a link to a map showing distribution of fatalities in Iraq by US city.

http://icasualties.org/oif/US_CITY.aspx

Jim Clausen @ 122

My apologies for the OT on Iraq and Tipton Iowa. The article pissed me off so much I wanted to share it with the community. Again My humble apologies for the OT

OT good. thank you for the links. i just have nothing to add to what you wrote…. i feel horrible being glad that kid has asthma. :(

I believe my point there was about my patience with the Democratic Party after the very recent Iran business. ;0)

Jim Clausen @ 122

My apologies for the OT on Iraq and Tipton Iowa. The article pissed me off so much I wanted to share it with the community. Again My humble apologies for the OT

I don’t think your comment was OT at all.

Phoenix Woman @ 124

And if he does try it after November, he’s going to piss off members of his own party, because he’ll have guaranteed that the Democrats will not only win all three branches next year, but by filibuster-proof margins.

Always willing to chip in with the ‘Cassandra’ version:
If he does it, what kind of Nation, hell – planet, will we be handed?

LS @ 92

selise @ 88

well congress has just told the world that they are with bush on the whole iran thing… so what can we expect putin and others to do? count on usa congress to check usa presidential insanity? i don’t think so.

If Putin told Bush in no uncertain terms that he considers an attack on Iran to be attacking Russia’s interests, this may get interesting really fast.

Link to carrier story? The last thing that I read was Eisenhower on the way to Gulf and then conflicting reports that there would be three there and then “Oh this is just part of usual rotation..blah..blah..” Anything new?

selise @ 118

i disagree that the “sense of the senate” is meaningless. in a campaign of rhetoric and propaganda – words matter. did you see the c-span coverage of the senate floor? and the house bill asked for specific action by the UN security council.

i do agree that what happens with the carriers is key. i will feel much better when we are done to one in the region. that’s not yet, to my knowledge, the case…. when it is i will breathe more comfortably.

Selise, how much coverage did that get outside of C-Span and the blogs? None. Nada. Zip. Considering that the mainstream media has been cheering on Bush’s attack-Iran rhetoric whenever they’ve seen it, you’d think that they’d have praised this to the skies. Instead — nothing.

Meanwhile, the carriers can’t stay parked in the Gulf forever. And as we’ve seen, they aren’t — two of them are going home. (The thing is that at least one of the carriers in question was already in need of a long refit and overhaul, an overhaul which was delayed by its being ordered to the Gulf. That overhaul will need to be even longer now.)

Phoenix Woman @ 124

With two of the three carriers going home (and unable to return for a minimum of four months — and that’s a bare minimum), Bush can’t attack Iran now. Period. Not anytime before November.

And if he does try it after November, he’s going to piss off members of his own party, because he’ll have guaranteed that the Democrats will not only win all three branches next year, but by filibuster-proof margins.

1. yes, but the carriers haven’t gone home yet. when they do, it will be good.

2. you are counting on bushco making rational decisions. i am not willing to assume that (history teaches me otherwise).

i’m glad you are not worried. i hope nothing happens. i don’t share your confidence. that will change – alot – when the carrier situation changes. but it hasn’t yet.

landofthefree @ 114

This is way off topic, but I just wanted to get it off my chest and point you to some interesting stuff.

I heard Bush’s address to the nation today, saying that our little war in Iraq is going pretty well, and we need to stay there. Then, I heard that Iraqi Prime Minister al-Maliki say clearly that the US can leave at any time, that the Iraqi army can handle things (and would do it better if we weren’t there meddling) – they just need some weapons from us, and they wish we’d leave.

Then, I saw a brilliant little piece on TPM that summarizes how our mission in Iraq has continually and dramatically changed over time.

All of this encouraged me to write this (link to dKos comment in the story about how al-Maliki basically told the US to leave).

Love your thoughts & comments.

There is also this recent ThinkProgress post to consider: Rice Falsely Claims ‘Iraqi Military Is Fighting On Behalf Of All Iraqis’

If one accepts the premise that our President is somewaht less than rational, and based on his behavior over the last seven years, then can we rationally rule out the possibility he might take it into his head to attack Iran?

Phoenix Woman @ 131

selise @ 118

i disagree that the “sense of the senate” is meaningless. in a campaign of rhetoric and propaganda – words matter. did you see the c-span coverage of the senate floor? and the house bill asked for specific action by the UN security council.

i do agree that what happens with the carriers is key. i will feel much better when we are done to one in the region. that’s not yet, to my knowledge, the case…. when it is i will breathe more comfortably.

Selise, how much coverage did that get outside of C-Span and the blogs? None. Nada. Zip. Considering that the mainstream media has been cheering on Bush’s attack-Iran rhetoric whenever they’ve seen it, you’d think that they’d have praised this to the skies. Instead — nothing.

Meanwhile, the carriers can’t stay parked in the Gulf forever. And as we’ve seen, they aren’t — two of them are going home. (The thing is that at least one of the carriers in question was already in need of a long refit and overhaul, an overhaul which was delayed by its being ordered to the Gulf. That overhaul will need to be even longer now.)

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/P…..02007.html

newtonusr @ 130

Phoenix Woman @ 124

And if he does try it after November, he’s going to piss off members of his own party, because he’ll have guaranteed that the Democrats will not only win all three branches next year, but by filibuster-proof margins.

Always willing to chip in with the ‘Cassandra’ version:
If he does it, what kind of Nation, hell – planet, will we be handed?

Well lets see the middle east and most of central Asia in flames, 200 dollar a barrel oil, no US constitutional protections, economic collapse world wide and well the list goes on and Bush has his place in history, now how will he be judged.

newtonusr @ 129

Phoenix Woman @ 124

And if he does try it after November, he’s going to piss off members of his own party, because he’ll have guaranteed that the Democrats will not only win all three branches next year, but by filibuster-proof margins.

Always willing to chip in with the ‘Cassandra’ version:
If he does it, what kind of Nation, hell – planet, will we be handed?

I think that it will be the last gasp for America as a world power. Seriously.

We’re already teetering on the brink, thanks to Bush and his buddies’ hollowing us out in classic Mafia “bust out” fashion. An attack on Iran would finish us — the Asian banks would stop servicing our debt, and then we’d go into Great Depression Two.

The thing is: In that case, do the people go towards a Roosevelt, or a Hitler? We have to be ready to steer them towards the FDR path.

In any event, boats can be moved back. We’ve still got another year and a half of Bush to go.

Steve-AR @ 130

LS @ 92

If Putin told Bush in no uncertain terms that he considers an attack on Iran to be attacking Russia’s interests, this may get interesting really fast.

Link to carrier story? The last thing that I read was Eisenhower on the way to Gulf and then conflicting reports that there would be three there and then “Oh this is just part of usual rotation..blah..blah..” Anything new?

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/P…..02007.html

Sorry, I accidentally linked it on the wrong comment….

wangdangdoodle @ 102

marymccurnin @ 96

The little f thingies next to our names may have little bars over them soon. Mark Zuckerberg, the facebook owner, is being sued by three young men who went to college with him. They claim he stole their code. It is their goal to close down Facebook.

Oh dear. So how do I get a little blue f thingie next to my name here? I signed up on facebook and joined the FDL Group. Is there something I need to enable?

At the bottom of the far right hand column (below the Blog Roll and stuff) there is a box titles “Meta.” In that box are links to Register, Login, etc.
Click the Register link and register yourself.
You will then be sent an e-mail with a login password.
Then go to your Facebook Profile.
At the bottom of the Profile page, there are three links (should be anyway)
Click on the “Public Listing” link and then copy the URL from that into the “Facebook” box on the FDL profile (bottom right of FDL profile page) after you get the password.
Save the FDL Profile and you should then have the FB icon next to your name in comments

selise @ 132

Phoenix Woman @ 124

With two of the three carriers going home (and unable to return for a minimum of four months — and that’s a bare minimum), Bush can’t attack Iran now. Period. Not anytime before November.

And if he does try it after November, he’s going to piss off members of his own party, because he’ll have guaranteed that the Democrats will not only win all three branches next year, but by filibuster-proof margins.

1. yes, but the carriers haven’t gone home yet. when they do, it will be good.

2. you are counting on bushco making rational decisions. i am not willing to assume that (history teaches me otherwise).

i’m glad you are not worried. i hope nothing happens. i don’t share your confidence. that will change – alot – when the carrier situation changes. but it hasn’t yet.

This isn’t a matter of rationality, Selise.

Even Bush can’t ignore the laws of physics. Or mechanics. And that’s what we’re looking at with the carrier groups.

They’ve already been in the Gulf a long time. They can’t stay there indefinitely, no matter how much Bush or anyone else lathering themsselves up over this wants them to. It’s that simple. Big boats need big-time maintenance just to stay afloat, much less to fight.

THE carrier is the Enterprise fyi, sorry OT again.

Recall that Mr. Bush is a fundie. He believes that God talks to him. And he is not afraid of the ‘rapture’.

Marcy’s most recent TNH post: Rove and Nixon and Anne Armstrong and the Work Yet to Be Done

Oklahoma kiddo @ 143

Recall that Mr. Bush is a fundie. He believes that God talks to him. And he is not afraid of the ‘rapture’.

I think that is just an “act” to get votes. No real “fundie” would have given the camera the “bird”.

bad caps lock bad bad

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 133

There is also this recent ThinkProgress post to consider: Rice Falsely Claims ‘Iraqi Military Is Fighting On Behalf Of All Iraqis’

Very good point, Stephen. It is amazing how the Bush administration lies outright to the people.

I sure hope we’re reaching the tipping point.

(Kudos to everyone who mentioned we’re pulling ships out of the Persian Gulf. I hadn’t heard that yet. It is a bit comforting to know that Bush may be backing off a tad.)

new thread upstairs

Steve-AR @ 130

Link to carrier story? The last thing that I read was Eisenhower on the way to Gulf and then conflicting reports that there would be three there and then “Oh this is just part of usual rotation..blah..blah..” Anything new?

this page usually has good links to carrier locations.

it’s the enterprise that headed for the gulf. originally to replace the stennis. but most recent reports have that we will be going back to “just” one carrier in the region. when that happens, tensions should subside.

LS @ 145

Oklahoma kiddo @ 143

Recall that Mr. Bush is a fundie. He believes that God talks to him. And he is not afraid of the ‘rapture’.

I think that is just an “act” to get votes. No real “fundie” would have given the camera the “bird”.

Perhaps you’re right.

Here’s the spread on the 2008 Elections from Bodog

dakine01 @ 140

wangdangdoodle @ 102

Oh dear. So how do I get a little blue f thingie next to my name here? I signed up on facebook and joined the FDL Group. Is there something I need to enable?

At the bottom of the far right hand column (below the Blog Roll and stuff) there is a box titles “Meta.” In that box are links to Register, Login, etc.
Click the Register link and register yourself.
You will then be sent an e-mail with a login password.
Then go to your Facebook Profile.
At the bottom of the Profile page, there are three links (should be anyway)
Click on the “Public Listing” link and then copy the URL from that into the “Facebook” box on the FDL profile (bottom right of FDL profile page) after you get the password.
Save the FDL Profile and you should then have the FB icon next to your name in comments

Thanks, Dakine. Waiting on the email.

Darcy Burner upstairs on Blue America…

I just remembered that there’s another reason we might be needing carriers in the Gulf:

How else are we going to get the troops out? Seriously.

Overland’s not an option, aside from the units nearest semi-friendly nations like Turkey or maybe Syria. Ditto for flying them out. If we want to withdraw as many troops as we can, as fast as we can (and the more we withdraw, the less safe those left behind will, so getting them all out and fast will be a priority despite the nonsense we hear about “leaving some behind to fight Al-Qaeda”), we need to use boats. BIG boats. And have them nearby.

Which is another reason for not attacking Iran right now (or anytime in the foreseeable future): Iran can shut down the Gulf anytime it wants, thereby cutting off our main escape route, and there’s not much we can do about it.

selise @ 149

Steve-AR @ 130

Link to carrier story? The last thing that I read was Eisenhower on the way to Gulf and then conflicting reports that there would be three there and then “Oh this is just part of usual rotation..blah..blah..” Anything new?

this page usually has good links to carrier locations.

it’s the enterprise that headed for the gulf. originally to replace the stennis. but most recent reports have that we will be going back to “just” one carrier in the region. when that happens, tensions should subside.

Sorry, the Enterprise. That is the story I saw and after re-reading it..it could mean anything. The “one could expect” or ” a logical conclusion would be..blah..blah” they are lying..I don’t think Cheney has made the decision yet.

janda @ 32

diogenes @ 27

snip..
Sen. Leahy was a prosecutor and is nobody’s fool. I’m sure he knows how to play this game far better than I. But he pulled his punches in the hearings, and for the life of me, I don’t understand why.

It sure pisses me off.

I’m hoping that it means they are collecting that information in their investigation and are waiting until enough people lie to congress to disclose it for maximum impact.

I had the impression that Taylor was a little too attractive to be a good bad guy. Young, blond, all that crap. I think they are a little wary of seeming like they are abusing thier powers and the MSM could do a fair job of making her out as a victim. I suspect Meirs will not get such gentle treatment.

boxer @ 123

newdealfarmgrrrlll @ 113

alas, a “retreat from Baghdad [that] erupts into a horrifying conflagration of failure” has been a sore worry of mine for a long time. I’ve read too much military history to scoff at this prediction.
I am one of the multitude that miss Steve Gilliard.

I glad this came back up. I posted a few months back about the dinner I had where I sat beside a returning colonel. He stated that we were in fact cut-off, and that if we wanted to withdraw without taking major casualties, we would have to mount a re-invasion.

missed your remark from a few months back, can’t say i’ m pleased to have my farm girl’s pragmatism reinforced. Don’t wingnuts pay attention to geography, infrastructure and technology? Apparently not. The situation is an all-around horror.

Hey, Howie’s Blue America post is up — with Darcy Burner! She’s a good’un. Go say hello to her!

“… just to stay afloat, much less to fight.”

“As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want.”

This is why they will attack ~ Iran Asks Japanese Refiners to Use Yen

Last country to do such a thing?

Phoenix Woman @ 152

I just remembered that there’s another reason we might be needing carriers in the Gulf:

How else are we going to get the troops out? Seriously.

Overland’s not an option, aside from the units nearest semi-friendly nations like Turkey or maybe Syria. Ditto for flying them out. If we want to withdraw as many troops as we can, as fast as we can (and the more we withdraw, the less safe those left behind will, so getting them all out and fast will be a priority despite the nonsense we hear about “leaving some behind to fight Al-Qaeda”), we need to use boats. BIG boats. And have them nearby.

Which is another reason for not attacking Iran right now (or anytime in the foreseeable future): Iran can shut down the Gulf anytime it wants, thereby cutting off our main escape route, and there’s not much we can do about it.

There is no more room in a carrier for more people..they need large transports and stage the evac from Kuwait. I don’t think they have a clue about how to withdraw 300,000 plus people from a hostile environment without killing a lot more Iraqi civilians.

Steve-AR @ 158

Phoenix Woman @ 152

I just remembered that there’s another reason we might be needing carriers in the Gulf:

How else are we going to get the troops out? Seriously.

Overland’s not an option, aside from the units nearest semi-friendly nations like Turkey or maybe Syria. Ditto for flying them out. If we want to withdraw as many troops as we can, as fast as we can (and the more we withdraw, the less safe those left behind will, so getting them all out and fast will be a priority despite the nonsense we hear about “leaving some behind to fight Al-Qaeda”), we need to use boats. BIG boats. And have them nearby.

Which is another reason for not attacking Iran right now (or anytime in the foreseeable future): Iran can shut down the Gulf anytime it wants, thereby cutting off our main escape route, and there’s not much we can do about it.

There is no more room in a carrier for more people..they need large transports and stage the evac from Kuwait. I don’t think they have a clue about how to withdraw 300,000 plus people from a hostile environment without killing a lot more Iraqi civilians.

I have a bad feeling they’ll be using the carriers for evacuation because they’ll have no other choice. People will be crowded on the carrier decks — it’ll make the choppers-off-the-Saigon-embassy look like a picnic.

The time is running out for our being able to choose the date of leaving. It’s already too late for a clean, non-fighting withdrawal; that hasn’t been an option for two years now.

We’re running out of

Phoenix Woman @ 152

I just remembered that there’s another reason we might be needing carriers in the Gulf:

How else are we going to get the troops out? Seriously.

Overland’s not an option, aside from the units nearest semi-friendly nations like Turkey or maybe Syria. Ditto for flying them out. If we want to withdraw as many troops as we can, as fast as we can (and the more we withdraw, the less safe those left behind will, so getting them all out and fast will be a priority despite the nonsense we hear about “leaving some behind to fight Al-Qaeda”), we need to use boats. BIG boats. And have them nearby.

Which is another reason for not attacking Iran right now (or anytime in the foreseeable future): Iran can shut down the Gulf anytime it wants, thereby cutting off our main escape route, and there’s not much we can do about it.

Sigh. Yet another reality that wingnuts are incapable of facing. Geography? Infrastructure? Worst-case planning? I’m sure there are sharp minds in the military who are aware of these things but I have no confidence that there is anyone in authority who is capable of listening to informed experts much less comprehending the message.

Phoenix Woman @ 159

Steve-AR @ 158

There is no more room in a carrier for more people..they need large transports and stage the evac from Kuwait. I don’t think they have a clue about how to withdraw 300,000 plus people from a hostile environment without killing a lot more Iraqi civilians.

I have a bad feeling they’ll be using the carriers for evacuation because they’ll have no other choice. People will be crowded on the carrier decks — it’ll make the choppers-off-the-Saigon-embassy look like a picnic.

The time is running out for our being able to choose the date of leaving. It’s already too late for a clean, non-fighting withdrawal; that hasn’t been an option for two years now.

We’re running out of

Time!! I also think most of the South Asian and Pacific Basin labor will be left to fend for themselves. The Iraqis that worked with the US are doomed..There will be no large immigration like the one following Vietnam.

End this despicable war NOW!!!! And Impeach while we are at it. It can be done at the same time for heaven’s sake. Pelosi do it!!:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/14/114222/873

burnspbesq @ 56

Over at Balkinization, Jack has a very useful post on the concept of “constitutional hardball” and how the Bushites have played the game. Strongly recommended.

Thanks, burnspbesq. He’s in my top ten list but I hadn’t read that.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 150

LS @ 145

I think that is just an “act” to get votes. No real “fundie” would have given the camera the “bird”.

Was that a ‘pre-saved pre-rapture ready’ sign with the extended finger?

Perhaps you’re right.

stephen parrish at 133–

the truthout post mentions 1/3 of soldiers basically out of commision due to desertion and other factors….deceptive wording there……..i heard on a report that 25% of them are gone for periods of time to take their pay back to their families, because there is no banking system available in iraq right now, so they have to hand-deliver their pay to support their families……

made me think of how that must affect everyone, no banking system right now……..cash or barter i guess……

Steve-AR @ 154

Sorry, the Enterprise. That is the story I saw and after re-reading it..it could mean anything. The “one could expect” or ” a logical conclusion would be..blah..blah” they are lying..I don’t think Cheney has made the decision yet.

sorry, i was away from the computer for awhile.

where i’m at is… i don’t know if they are lying… but i don’t trust them to tell the truth. so, until the carriers are back home, i’m gonna be very concerned.

and i’m going to be pissed at congress for acting irresponsibly.

Wow, this brings back memories! I used to live in a townhouse overlooking Troutbrook Creek in St. Paul! It empties into a man-made lake which borders a wetland just north of Arlington Street. Fabulous place to take your labrador retriever for a walk! People from the nearby Hmong neighborhood used to fish and catch crawdads in the lake.

The city has put a fence around the lake to prevent children from drowning and have put in a paved bike path, but it’s still lush and wild. You could almost forget that you’re in the middle of a good-sized city there.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 23

Just for you:

Dru @ 6

Louis Prima!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K1InOOLEsQ

Don’t know if you’ll ever see my reply as this is old thread and it’s late, too, but, hoss, that was way kewl!! *G*

I followed the other Louis Prima clips, too . . . Keely Smith is, um, ALWAYS a delight to watchlisten to. Pure Ital gal, you’d almost think (Smith???) . . . ;-)

Louis Prima was a hoss!!!!