You’re probably familiar with the phrase, “The perfect is the enemy of the good,” meaning that the desire for an ideal outcome often makes a merely adequate outcome seem unacceptable. It’s a concept that comes up a lot in clashes between the netroots and the Democratic party establishment. (I personally would describe that dynamic as more like “The good is the enemy of the half-assed,” but that’s a whole ‘nother conversation.)
However, it may come as no surprise to you that the good has many enemies. One of the biggest (besides the GOP) is the Imaginary. I am speaking of the Imaginary America that Republicans want us to believe we inhabit, an America where everything is perfect and the best of all possible worlds and we can do no wrong because we are God’s Chosen Nation. (Of course, this does not apply to stuff they don’t like, such as gays and immigrants.)
This morning, I read an NYT editorial about how Americans are not nearly as upwardly mobile as citizens of most other industrial nations, and it’s a perfect example of what I’m talking about. The American people largely go along with the Republicans’ insanely pro-wealth, pro-business policies because they either believe that they themselves are wealthy, or that they will be (PDF).
This optimism is because we all “know” that America is the Land Of Opportunity, where anyone can make it big if they just have enough savvy and gumption. (Or, in Dubya’s case, Forrest Gumption.) So there’s no need to reform the tax system, or the educational system (which is the best in the world because it’s American!), or the economic system, because it’s a level playing field and everyone fancies him/herself a Winner. Why give up any of your future share of capitalism’s rich bounty just so some lazy deadbeat can eat?
Worse yet, the belief in America The Shining Beacon Of Democracy has made too many citizens unable or unwilling to see the rot that has eaten away at that democracy. Most people can’t believe that this country could turn into an authoritarian dictatorship because America is synonymous with Democracy – surely everything will return to normal after the Bush cohort leaves office. Anyone who suggests that our democratic institutions themselves are fundamentally broken must be a tinfoil-wearing crackpot!
Similarly, the belief in America The Just And Decent helped paved the way for the invasion of Iraq. Most Americans believed that we had good reasons to invade, simply because America isn’t the sort of country that attacks and brutalizes other countries just to inflate corporate coffers and presidential egos. Thankfully, only the die-hards still believe that now (or pretend to), but it would have been a much harder sell in the first place if more Americans recognized their country’s ability to commit great wrongs (See: Slavery, Jim Crow, internment camps, etc.). Even now, there are still far too many people who believe that America would never spy on someone without a warrant, or lock them up indefinitely and torture them without a trial, unless they were a Very Grave And Serious Threat.
What I am inartfully trying to say is that the reflexive “America #1!” mindset has led America to a state of complacency, hubris and denial, where the most obvious injustices and blatant government criminality can be waved away like outlying data points. We as a nation have become, or have always been, so blinded by the radiance of Imaginary America that we cannot see the many flaws of Real America. But to ignore flaws is to fail to correct them. America is not a beautiful house right now, but it’s a fixer-upper with great potential. Unfortunately, we in the liberal blogosphere are often in the unpopular position of trying to explain this to the proud homeowners who think they live in the bestest house on the block.
The depressing irony is that the more fiercely we believe America to be the greatest country on Earth, the less true it will be.
Related posts:
- Stark Catches Republicans out on the Hill: Why Do They Hate America?
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes T. R. Reid, The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care
- FDL Book Salon: Idiot America with Charles Pierce
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Paul Starobin, After America: Narratives for the Next Global Age
- Superfusion: How China and America Became One Economy





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Zed
*tap tap tap*
Is this thing on?
Hi Eli and Everypup!
What if the Presidential Inaguration rolls around in January 2009 and Bush and Cheney decide they are not leaving office?
Hi Eli!
Can’t argue with a word
Eli @ 2
Quiet, isn’t it!
love the pic, too
people’s belief in their abilities to rise up thru the economic class ladder in spite of all evidence to the contrary springs from the same place as their belief in jesus being white.
Hello, everybody!
/Dr. Nick
And thanks, Elliott. This one kinda kicked my butt, hence the slight lateness…
Excellent post, Eli, thanks!
And what’s so tragic about it all is that no one can ever be permitted to say over a microphone to the American people anything OTHER than “We’re Number One!”
Because if you attempt to do so, you will be hounded from our midst as rotten unamerican commie scum, or some such.
It’s like beating to death the little boy who pointed out that the Emeror has no clothes on.
The bigger they come, the harder they fall. The fall of this Empire ain’t gonna be pretty.
An example of cultural blindness, and hubris, lead to some really bad decisions and an unexamined adoption of false assumptions about others and their motives.
Eli @ 2
I notified the last thread!
Jo6pac says
I remember being taken by parents to see the Ugly American. It’s to bad we have lived up to the movie. There still a chance for us but it will take along time to convince the rest of the world we are try to do good.
jo6pac
I’m that old.
Remember the old bumper stickers which read “America love it or leave it”?
The perfect being the enemy of the good?
I’d be happy enough if Democrats simply held it a rule to oppose all wrong and harmful policies and support only morally correct and helpful policies.
Our most bitter debates aren’t usually over demanding that political leaders follow perfection, but that there’s simply no excuse for doing the wrong and harmful things.
NAFTA, for example, wasn’t by any definition “the good” which failed to reach perfection — in itself, it was an idiotic, wrong, and harmful policy, and still is.
I’m tired of many politicians seeing things only from within the maelstrom, within which they believe all wind-tossed solutions must be correct.
Standing outside the storm, though feeling its winds, I would never agree to give in to storm-tossed lunacy and call it “the good”.
Mrs. K8 @ 10
I think this was a large part of Dean’s downfall. He didn’t really embrace the whole “America Number One Forever!!!1!!” mindset.
Bill Moyers Journal is doing a great story on impeachment right now – it is on PBS.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 14
but what country would have me?
El Cid @ 15
Hence my snarky comment about the good being the enemy of the half-assed.
Did anyone see MSM network nightly news, tonight. I am curious to know if they covered the White House invoking executive privilege to withhold Tillman documents? Anyone?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 14
Yup. The proud badges of people who were eager to announce their emotional immaturity. Bunch of babies — babies who make life miserable for the rest of us by enabling the sociopaths at the top.
Mrs. K8 @ 21
I also recall seeing one that said “I Love My Country, but I fear my government”.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 14
I thought of that slogan a few days ago, and I made a note to myself:
“Renew passport.”
give me finland or give me death!
Off-subject—What the hell is this news about Bush’s executive privilege regarding Pat Tillman????
Eli @ 16 –
True. That and the fact that Dean announced he wanted to break up the huge corporate communications conglomerates.
Eli, thanks for this.
I find it interesting when folks here on this very blog say repeatedly that the want the “America that they know” back. Which America is a much a myth as anything.
Up there with the myth of the noble soldier and the best constitution ever.
Okay, I’ll duck now.
As president, Jimmy Carter tried to force us to live up to our professed ideals. Unfortunately, that is an extremely difficult task to do which is just one of the reasons Ray-guns was able to sneak in by making most folks feel good and OK about their prejudices.
It has only gotten worse. At least back in the days of slavery/Jim Crow/Internment camps/native genecide etc there was at least some small excuse such as lack of education and general information. With al the informaiton tools now available, the only excuse is willful ignorance and obtuseness; people choosing to not see the most obvious details as the lies are easier.
Important post, eli, and good evening. It’s been sad to watch the dramatic decline of the last few years — and I think we should be clear that whatever faults the nation had (as nations do), they pale next to what the Bush regime has done in every area. On the other hand, watching the progressive blogs grow, watching folks like Glenn Greenwald and others start to have an effect on the way the media views its job, has been encouraging. People now have a much better sense of how important our founding principles are, and there are many more people working to restore them now than only a couple years back.
Impeach Bush/Cheney/Gonzales.
Big Mitch @ 23
you might want to start the process now, the gov’s a little slow in that department.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 14
Whast the rest of that quote “when wrong make right”
ticktock @ 25
This is NOT a joke, though it may sound like one.
Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) revealed on Friday afternoon that the White House and Pentagon were holding up a House Oversight and Government Reform Committee investigation into the friendly fire death of former professional football player and Army Corporal Patrick Tillman.
“[T]he Committee wrote to White House Counsel Fred Fielding seeking ‘all documents received or generated by any official in the Executive Office of the President’ relating to Corporal Tillman’s death,” noted a press release from the Committee.
But the White House has apparently again invoked its executive privilege to hold up the documents sought by Waxman and Ranking Minority member Tom Davis (R-VA).
As per an idea in a previous comment thread, I gave $2 to a subway panhandler and said “This is to stop Dick Cheney from being such an asshole.”
He snapped back, “I’ll see what I can do. Thanks.”
Let’s all do two acts of kindness a day in Dick Cheney’s name between now and September, 15 and we might just seriously phuque up his sh!t.
Compassion as a fractal weapon. Focused intent.
Folks here know about my Gizmo experiments. This, in addition to our ongoing efforts can have a profound effect. Do two acts of kindness each day in Cheney’s name until Cindy reaches Washington.
Tens of thousands of folks gather here. You’ll never know how a single act of kindness can defeat many acts of hate.
I urge everyone here to give it a try.
dakine01 @ 28
The importance of that last bit cannot be underestimated. Assholes are usually very grateful to anyone who can make their assholishness sound noble and patriotic.
argosfalcon @ 31
I think it goes something like, “My country right or wrong — when wrong, make it right.”
If it hasn’t been mentioned before, Bill Moyers is talking about impeachment this evening. Great show. While the rest of the media and the political establishment, has its fingers in its ears, yelling “I can’t hear you,” Moyers speaks truth to any who will listen.
I spoke with a woman today (about 60) who had to sell her house to pay medical bills because her insurance company went bankrupt. She is now renting. She is disabled. I asked her if she had seen Sicko, and she said she would NEVER see it because Michael Moore is a liar. She also said that global warming is not caused by humans, just a normal cycle. She knew these things because she is “politically savvy” and reads the government reports.
Case in point.
Big Mitch @ 32
I read that as well something about national security (cya) or how would it look if they gave a PR event and the truth showed up.
Time to start brushing up on Watergate/impeachment history, because we may be on the verge of reliving those moments. We lost momentum for about a month there, but now it’s back. Three news shows tonight talked about impeachment, and there will be more. Beat the drums.
Big Mitch @ 20
Did anyone see MSM network nightly news, tonight. I am curious to know if they covered the White House invoking executive privilege to withhold Tillman documents? Anyone?
No, but the claim of exec privilege now makes sense:
New documents disclosed by the Associated Press show a top-ranking general tried to warn Bush one week after the April 22, 2004 death that friendly fire was likely to blame.
The White House says Bush never got the warning. But two days after the general issued his warning, Bush gave a speech paying tribute to Tillman. He avoided any reference to the circumstances surrounding the incident.
(Snip)
So if the prez knew it was friendly fire, and made his horse-shit ‘hero-of-a-great-war’ speech anyway – well, ya can’t release the incriminating documents now, can ya?
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/t…..15349.html
Scarecrow @ 29
It was kinda nice when I started writing the bit about Iraq, and realized that I had to use past tense. But still, remember that Bush got re-elected *after* Abu Ghraib, so the American capacity for cognitive dissonance is still pretty damn strong.
Moyers is now talking about impeachment in connection with the Libby commutation. It is a fantastic discussion.
Impeach Bush/Cheney/Gonzales
Subway Serenade @ 33
I apologize for my ignorance about the part I bolded in your comment — haven’t been able to be around these parts in a while, and have apparently missed the Gizmo reference. Could you point me to the relevant thread? ‘Cause I like how you think!
In the ‘Nixon papers:’ Young Karl Rove; Roger Ailes; Nixon’s media strategy
more evidence of the chronic infestation.
“…they either believe that they themselves are wealthy, or that they will be.”
- or they could be.
My brother delivered an instrument to a woman who had agreed to make monthly payments as the only way she could buy a small harpsichord. He asked her about the Bush/Cheney sign in the yard.
“Are you a Republican?! Did you earn hundreds of thousands of dollars last year?” “No”, she said, “but I could.”
Beautiful
Scarecrow @ 39
that’s heartening.
*xyz @ 44
What an amazing discussion; more intelligent and informed than anything I’ve seen from the talking heads in months/years??
Hugh @ 37
Making me furious. Looks like I’ll have to hit the scotch again.
But W had his accountability moment–election 04! /snark
Loo Hoo. @ 37
Hey, if Republcans can apologize when the veep shoots them in the face, they can pretty much swallow anything.
After having a conversation yesterday with a co-worker who hails from Bosnia, I was struck by his initial response to my opinion that democracy in America is in jeopardy like never before, at least in our lifetimes. He argued with some vigor that Americans don’t understand what its like to experience war in their own backyard, that life here is as good as it gets. He didn’t understand why I felt outrage over what’s been and is being done in our name (with our tax dollars) in Iraq and countless other nations in which we have flexed our military muscle when it doesn’t impact me directly, and oh by the way, it’s all in response to 9/11 anyway. It was almost as if he was willing to accept the injustices that have resulted in the Bushies foreign policy because his station in life was so much better now, as if it were a luxury to feel compassion for the humans being murdered because they were unfortunate enough to live above the oil fields of the Middle East. It was a frustrating conversation and one that I had to end rather than risk leaving a sour taste in his mouth.
Eli @ 34
It was quite obvious to me all throughout the ‘80 campaign season. Carter was deliberate and didn’t fly off the handle and go crazy at the time when all the crazies wanted to do was nuke Iran. Consequently all the chest thumbers felt that the “national honor had been impugned” and Carter was weak for not going nuckin’ futz.
They still to this day don’t understand the strength of will necessary to NOT go crazy and blow everything up in a rage. In fact our national tendency is to act like a six year old in the middle of a temper tantrum because we’re not getting our way.
Eli –
Yup, that’d make a good motto:
Republican loyalty — willing to swallow buckshot for the cause.
Eli @ 41
yes, and that, plus constant repetion every day, may explain why 40% still think saddam order the attacks on NYC –
There are some great ‘impeach’ shirts and bumper stickers available at http://www.cafepress.com
Don’t you want to be the first on your block to have one?
Bang that drum.
Here she comes, Myth America.
did you run a lisp routine?
(now, off to read the post…)
Jay @ 51
Being a better place to live than wartime Bosnia does not exactly qualify us for Best Nation In The World status. There are certainly much, much worse places to be. But that doesn’t mean America is perfect, or even Best In Show.
I teach a course called Myth America. (religion and america).
Good one, Eli.
Analagous situation in France, where by definition, egalite applies. So young people of Algerian descent can’t possibly have anything to complain about. Even if they do live in slums, and can’t get jobs.
Despite CTuttle’s reservations, I think Stephen Kinzer’s Overthrow is excellent in this case – believable by the indoctrinated (though not the Believers), and more than enough to plant healthy seeds of doubt.
Well this could be a historic year a trifecta of impeachments.
jayt @ 40
No, but the claim of exec privilege now makes sense:
New documents disclosed by the Associated Press show a top-ranking general tried to warn Bush one week after the April 22, 2004 death that friendly fire was likely to blame.
The White House says Bush never got the warning. But two days after the general issued his warning, Bush gave a speech paying tribute to Tillman. He avoided any reference to the circumstances surrounding the incident.
(Snip)
So if the prez knew it was friendly fire, and made his horse-shit ‘hero-of-a-great-war’ speech anyway – well, ya can’t release the incriminating documents now, can ya?
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/t…..15349.html
Much as the Chimpenfuhrer and his enablers may bleat, there is no “avoiding embarrassment because we stepped on our d*cks big time” privilege which is really what this claim is.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 15
true love is not blind.
Eli @ 41
That’s cause folks could still convince themselves it was just a “few rogue elements” in the Army, not national policy.
Ga @ 58
Excellent! In what kind of context?
mmmmm shining bacon aghaghaghagh
Unfortunately, we in the liberal blogosphere are often in the unpopular position of trying to explain this to the proud homeowners who think they live in the bestest house on the block.
The consequences of the real state bubble.
Ga @ 59
Do you have a reading list?
Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me…our crops need picking and the grass must be cut!
punaise @ 57
This is a UNIX joke, right?
There are 10 types of people. Those who understand binary and those who don’t.
GordonM @ 61
I think one of the cruel ironies in this country is that because racism is no longer institutionalized in our laws, that we don’t have to worry about fighting it in our society.
Mrs. K8 @ 44
I’m currently doing experiments in Cardiofeedback with a device invented by Dan Winter, author of “The Physics of Consciousness.”
I talk a lot about it at The End of Civilization As We Know It.
Look for the box of miracles.
Eli @ 70
Should be, “…the idea that because…” Hopefully it was adequately implied.
Just a few rogue element is the government could convince a large number of the marginally informed people the a few rogue elements in the military were responsible for abu graib.
Excellent post; fabulous title.
We need to get a transcript of Bill Moyer’s show tonight. This is the opening testimony for impeachment hearings.
Thanks, Teddy!
Mrs. K8 @ 22
The precursors to the yellow “Support the Troops” car magnets….same mindset, same proto-fascist mentality.
dakine01 says
July 13th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
there is no “avoiding embarrassment because we stepped on our d*cks big time” privilege…
I thought they were using that one as their rationale for keeping Abu in place.
Big Mitch @ 70
some sort of techie talk beyond my grasp
huns and heroes.
re: the myth that we’re number one, and that (at least under Repugs) anyone can become rich by dint of hard work, this is the premise of the excellent book, “What’s the Matter with Kansas?” People in Kansas, according to the well documented thesis of the book, are manipulated into voting against their interests, by the “values-voter” bullshit, and the idea that Repubs will protect their access to wealth.
Big Mitch @ 80
Yep. Everyone simultaneously sees themselves as both a salt-of-the-earth heartland American *and* a big-shot high-roller. Go figure.
Eli @ 58,
I suppose perspective is everything. My co-worker did agree that the media was a joke in this country, he was likely playing devil’s advocate but no degree of perspective will quell my disgust over Iraq and countless other disgraces that we have endured under the current administration.
Impeachment must be pursued.
jayt @ 78
I think it is the working hypothesis for most of the actions of these a**hats.
Folks often compare love of America with love of one’s mother — “my mother, drunk or sober!”
It’s a good comparison in that persons who don’t love their mom would be happy to hand over a bottle of Wild Turkey or drive mom up to the local taproom so she can belly up to the bar and further destroy her life or develop Korsakoff’s syndrome.
It’s a loving child who will intervene and attempt to get mom into rehab.
- – - – - – - – - -
Subway Serenade — thanks for the link! I’ll check it out!
[Now it’s off to the pool to do the daily phys. therapy. Will look in later, dearest Pups! I’m so glad I got a chance today to pop in, as I’ve missed you all terribly during these latest hideous days in the twilight of Empire.]
Jay @ 52
I remember a supervisor from the Philippines who was shocked that anyone would actually criticize the president. I think – this was in the late 80s, and I can’t say I remember exactly – I said that it was our right to say that.
Jay @ 82
Well, it’s definitely better to inside America than to be looking down its gun barrel.
*xyz @ 43
fantastic discussion – “impeachment is not a constitutional crisis, it is the cure for a constitutional crisis.”
Scarecrow @ 76
it will be posted here.
Bill Moyers show is very heartening.
Amazing two men from the far left and the far right agreeing about what should be done
IMPEACH
Scarecrow @ 49
Keep us posted. It’s not on here. Thank you.
“the fall of the roman empire did not come from bad leaders or a bad congress but because the people started acting like subjects.”
#57, 75
You’re only in trouble if you start balancing your checkbook in octal.
Just listening to Keith Olbermann again, and I heard him something I missed first time. In asking Craig Crawford about “Tillman/there is no “avoiding embarrassment because we stepped on our d*cks big time” privilege…” story he mentioned that “We are going to be going into this in detail on Monday.”
This is a BIG story. Could be the tipping point. Please God. Make it so.
ack – don’t look now – they showed HolyJoe.
P J Evans @ 92
One of my friends recommended that I start reckoning my name in hex, so now I’m 26.
I think the founding fathers would chase bushco from the WH with pitchforks and torches if they were alive to see what republicans have done to our country.
I’m not confident that our problems will end with impeachment. We still have CNN and FOX trying to compete with the E channel instead of news. We still have a congress filled with rich, corrupt, and bribed officials. We still have blacked out lines and new additions to our Constitution. We still have 140,000 troops in Iraq, and whether we leave or not, we still have a broken middle east.
Oh yeah, and a Supreme Court filled with idiots..And a fat budget crisis!! That’ll take a few decades to fix.
Big Mitch @ 94
it’s just that it always seems like we’ve gotten to the tipping point.
Great post Eli.
Kathryn in MA @ 92
And because the Senate, the true representative of the Roman people, folded when Caesar’s armies crossed the Rubicon and gave the dictator and his cronies what they wanted.
Kathryn in MA @ 91
So in the same way when we moved from being citizens to consumers, we were well down the road to being subjects, of corporate own leaders.
Loo Hoo. @ 91
for later (it’s not posted yet)…. here’s where the podcast will be.
Eli: The phrase for what you’re talking about is “American exceptionalism”, and it drives the rest of the world nuts.
It’s the belief that we are, for better or worse (but mostly for better), A Nation Apart and A Moral Beacon (and thus are not bound by the rules that bind others). We may have been a moral beacon at times, but not always or even often. (For instance: We were latecomers to the idea of abolishing slavery. Most of Europe and Latin America had done so decades or even centuries before we did.)
cancer_cures @ 96
I agree. There are deep-rooted structural problems, as well as all kinds of landmines left behind by the Bush and other Republican administrations.
Another big one is politicians’ reliance on big-money donors to get elected, so that even Democrats are excessively beholden to corporations and the superrich.
Fridays at 7:00 PDT is a good time to catch Robert Scheer sometimes Arianna H. on “Left, Right and Center”, a half-hour radio program from KCRW in Santa Monica.
Sorry, #57 and #70 on my previous. Dynamic RAM with a refresh problem.
—
This was posted over at emptywheel’s place by prostratedragon. It’s clear, reading it, that Boxer can’t see the forest because she’s too busy weeding under the trees. (all emphasis mine)
argosfalcon @ 101
And don’t forget making consumers into debtors so that they become complete cowards for fear that they won’t be able to pay their bills.
Bill Moyers – warning of perpetual war – symptom of a monarchy.
“this war is killing us now, body and soul.” advocates impeachment
I’m reminded of the excellent documentary “Why we Fight”. The military/industrial complex has wrapped its slimy tentacles around every element of the American economy, leaving representatives throughout the land beholden to the industries that provide jobs to their constituents. Until we elect leaders that are willing to scale back this influence, decoupling regional job markets from our war-making capacity, I see no urgency in Congress’ desire to stop the war-making..
Thanks, MM!
Phoenix Woman @ 102
Yep, I know the phrase; I was just trying to approach it from a slightly different angle.
Big Mitch @ 93
This is the type of story that winds up being a tipping point. People understand about the NFL player who gave up his career to join the army. They understand when the big hero story winds up being a lie when it turns out he was killed by friendly fire and they tend to get upset when the folks in charge lie to cover their a**es on this.
Eli @ 105
even beyond campaign donations… big corporations can threaten to tank the economy of an area/region/state/country if they want to play hardball with the elected politicians.
just looks at how the gasoline prices were kept low prior to the 2006 elections… economic power in service of manipulating our government doesn’t only happen via the electoral process.
Eli, you do realize that if you figure your age in hex, you’d have 15 years before you were eligible to run for president? In octal, you could have run 9 years ago!
Jay @ 110
was that the one with Karen Kwiatowski (sp?)
OMG Sarkozy is Charlie Rose’s guest tonight. Rose won’t beableto stay in his seat, his oiliness will cause him to slide out.
I should get residuals for some of these.
The scariest thing is that if we hand this new power to the next pres we contribute further to the demise of our country
P J Evans @ 113
I wish I spoke Klingon. :)
Great post, Eli. There have always been 2 Americas-the real one, flawed but with great potential, and the imaginary one that is a metaphor for freedom & justice & all that good stuff. To steal some Langston Hughes,
O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath–
America will be!
It’s got a lot to do with the ubiquitous easy availability of credit.
dakine01 @ 111
There have been so many tipping points. Some of them actually have done some serious damage, like Katrina.
snowbird42 @ 117
Power and rights once surrendered are very difficult to either limit in the former or have returned in the latter.
Karin @ 119
I actually wanted to tie Imaginary & Real America in with John Edwards’ Two Americas, but just wasn’t deft enough. I barely got through it as it was.
Elliot @ 115,
Yes, in fact Karen Kwiatkowski had the last word in that documentary, something to this effect: until the American people decide that they’re no longer willing to put up with the current state of affairs, willing to impose their will on our elected leaders, things will not change.
“Why we Fight” is an absolute must see.
selise @ 113
Politicians may be stupid, but most of them realize they can’t feed at the trough if they don’t get elected.
Jay @ 125
thanks, I’m ashamed to say I haven’t seen it yet.
Check out Moyers Blog
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/
Twain @ 118
I was going to save this post for Monday, but you have forced my hand.
And then there was this
The fascist part doesn’t fit (and no, I’m not gonna argue the point), but myths of destiny and promotion of irrationality? Good times, good times.
GordonM @ 126
of course. but after they are elected – if the economy tanks on their watch, it would undermine their chances for re-election. not saying campaigns don’t matter – just saying there’s even more to it than that.
Hi, pups — swoopin’ in from the tall timber. Great post, Eli! Laboring with dialup @ 19 kps [kbs? anyway, definitely dinosaur speed] and knowing that even if I were in the big city o’Fargo on broadband the Japanese [and french?] would be zooming along 30 times faster… yep, another we’re not #1.
Whenever Bush/Chee-knee leave office, they will leave a diminished America on their watch.
Couple quick observations. Yesterday on Hardball I think it was somebody lamented that politics could be dictated by one man like Larry Flynt. Where was the moral outrage for one man dictating when his name’s Rupert Murdoch? Or Karl Rove?
And what was the deal with Bush’s mention of Methodists during his presser? I’ve chewed over that one and I’m wondering if that was a subtext shot at Laura. Maybe he’s just down to Barney and even Barney’s starting to lift his leg….
EPU, have you ever heard of a book called The Overseer, by Jonathan Rabb?
I posted an overview and some juicy quotes here, here, and here.
Big Mitch @ 132
Katrina was when most people finally realized that Bush:
A) Didn’t care, and
B) Favored croniesm over competence.
The Moyers’ piece was drop dead interesting, exciting, passionate, and informative. Both guests pro-impeachment because of overreaching, secrecy, torture, etc. Real condemnation for the passivity of the congress for no oversight and letting it slide. Criticism of the Pelosi “off the table” claim because it can’t be off the table; it’s in the Constitution. In part they advocate impeachment in order not to pass on the expanded powers to another Pres. They think some of the lack of oversight is not understanding the power to the Constitution: lacking the understanding of it and history and lacking the conviction to take these people/Admin. on. Also the view that “we” the people are way ahead and want a push back on the extra-legal, imperial, law into self actions of the Admin. That impeachment should be against both W & Cheney. A wonderful program if you can see it in your area.
Evil Parallel Universe @ 117
Ronald Reagan. He presided over “transforming” the economy from manufacturing (which had stalled) to financial. Kevin Phillips Wealth and Democracy, or to get the central point my summary here.
It’s the beginning of the end of economic empire. After that comes calls for globalization, so the elites can move their capital overseas, build factories in other countries where the labor is cheap and start the cycle over.
Eli @ 128
Thanks so much. Now I understand everything. Fluently. :)
Eli @ 122
I really felt that Katrina would change things. I went fishing in the wilderness just before it hit bigtime, and I was out of touch for a week. While we were away, we wondered what would be the biggest story when we returned. When it happened, I remembered the history of Louisiana, and the rise of the Huey Long. I came home and printed up a t-shirt that had a picture of Bush and the legend: Apres moi, le deluge.
It was the start of the turning on Bush. The blush was off the blossom, so to speak.
Eli @ 122
Each tipping point brings a few more people back from the dark side. Some point bring more some fewer but all are important and necessary. This one will bring a lot of the non-thinkers who have not been directly effected by things but who know the story of the NFL star who gave it up to join the Army, who was killed and then his parents and brother were lied to. THAT gets people who otherwise wouldn’t be moved.
Here she comes….Miss…AmericAHHHHH!
This YouTube video pretty much sums up America’s state of affairs right now. But just as she did, we’re gonna get back up, put smile on our faces, and get down to bidness!
Twain @ 138
If you liked that, you’ll love this. Hopefully not too many of the links have died…
Oops, forgot the link…
Bill Moyers is outstanding tonight.
Let me see if I get this right. McCain fires those who ran his campaign, and then says the terrible shape his campaign is in, is his fault. Can you imagine. Not very long ago this character was the Republican front runner. And projected to win. And Fred and Rudy are waiting in the wings.
Don’t insult Forrest Gump. He had a big heart. And loyalty to things that mattered. And principles.
Bush is nowhere near as smart or compassionate or loyal or principled as Forrest Gump.
Thanks all for the thought-provoking conversation. FDL is still the best blog in the business! Keep fighting folks, keep fighting.
Eli @ 129
Hilarious! (speaking as a father whose daughter celebrated her bat mitvah 3 months ago.)
Thanks you, selise, for the links.
TarheelDem @ 146
I did worry about that for a bit, but decided to go ahead with it because I hated the movie.
I’d say they’re about on par in terms of intelligence, but you’re right that there’s no comparison in terms of character.
Big Mitch @ 148
Qapla’!
bhatten @ 136
If the people lead, the leaders will follow, or so I’ve been told.
Our leaders must be slow learners.
That NYT editorial mentions mobility from the bottom 20% of the income distribution to the upper 80%, i.e. someone who is way at the bottom is more likely to be stuck there than someone at the bottom in Finland. Here, the bottom fifth understands that situation and is overwhelmingly Democratic. Not mentioned is mobility from (say) the second or third fifth, to the upper fifths. It’s the folks at those middle levels, who are the ones who rightly or wrongly think they have a shot at the big time. I wonder what the actual statistics are for them.
Good piece Eli. To busy and tired today for much blogging but I’ve got to say:
IMPEACH
at least once.
TarheelDem @ 145
Forrest Gump is precisely what is wrong with this country. He made it acceptable to think that Bush doesn’t need to study or think hard to succeed.
bonkers @ 152
Someone needs to remind the Democrats that Dubya’s approval rating isn’t 90% anymore…
Someone needs to remind my party the American people thinks the Democrats smell worse than Bush.
Eli, I’m with you. Hated Forrest Gump. Freaking self indulgent movie. So it’s you and me against the hundreds of millions who loved it.
OT
here’s the times for a rebroadcast of a presentation by Doug Marlette
Doug Marlette
The Moyers’ people also took aim at the media for now getting the facts out/or paying attention, so that even if Congress is failing, there would be a voice of scrutiny.
Evil Parallel Universe @ 117
I like your ideas, EPU. The crash of ‘29 did scare Middle America away from thinking they could get rich from investments for a couple of decades. Wonder what it will take this time.
carolyn urban @ 156
What am I? Chopped liver? see 153, supra.
carolyn urban @ 157
Add me – I didn’t care for it either but I got to see Gary Senise so that made if okay.
Big Mitch @ 148
Now I can use all those fonts I got years ago when I thought I was going to learn Klingon.
Okay Big Mitch, you’re in.
Fern @ 28
Stephanie Coontz, “The Way We Never Were” Basic Books, 1992
Twain @ 162
My girlfriend *still* refers to him as “Lieutenant Dan” whenever she sees him in anything.
I like him as an actor, but I seem to recall that he’s a great big wingnut.
The Achilles heel of recent American presidents is an inability to admit they made a mistake. And we are poised to nominate Senator Clinton. Just what we need. Another pig-headed prez.
OMG EVIL PARALLEL UNIVERSE???????????????????
(((((((epu))))))))))))
Big Mitch is obsessed today with the Tillman story. see, 21 and 33 above.
PBS Newshour with Jim Lehrer ignored the story.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 166
Off-handed Razorback reference?
Eli @ 166
I don’t know about that at all (I hope he’s not) but he is a very good actor and very sexy.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 167
Remember, a mistake doesn’t become a mistake *until* you admit it. So the best thing to do is brazen it out and wait for history to vindicate you.
carolyn urban @ 156
I hated it too. And I also hated “Big”. The message of that one was that men are so immature that an adult woman could date a 12 year old and not even notice anything was off.
Twain @ 171
I think that second Google hit says it all, unfortunately…
Eli – read your Overseer posts.
I’ve been trying to spread the meme that “small government” is a position taken only in opposition. Rather close to that take on State’s Rights.
Karin @ 172
Hey! for a second I thought you were going to make a personal attack on me. (I’m not really that Big.)
GordonM @ 175
That would certainly make sense. When it’s *your* government, you want it to be as powerful as possible, either because you think you’re doing good with it as God intended, or because it’s your chance to cash in.
Eli, take a minute to say, your posts just get better and better. Keep it going!
Aw, thanks, carolyn! You’re very kind, but my God, the pressure!
eli says-”America is not a beautiful house right now, but it’s a fixer-upper with great potential. Unfortunately, we in the liberal blogosphere are often in the unpopular position of trying to explain this to the proud homeowners who think they live in the bestest house on the block.”
it’s ok…….we know it’s a good neighborhood……….and a good investment…..
eCAHNomics @ 116
Wandering in and out, but that image is hysterical.
Big Mitch, I haven’t heard the latest about Pat Tillman. This executive privelege thing: I’m shaking my head, but it’s been a long week and I’m tired. I’m going to get a little rest, then polish up my pitch fork. These people in power now? They’ve never read any history. They have no idea what happens to people like them.
Carolyn U. —
In addition to the fact that this story will resonate (in negative way) with Joe Sixpack, the bozos driving this bus have completely underestimated the Tillman family.
Or else, I am wrong again.
Big Mitch @ 184
We’ll see. What’s more important: NFL hero? Or athiest?
Big Mitch @ 183
I thought Cindy Sheehan would be absolutely devastating, but it never quite worked out that way. Although I think she did ding him a little bit.
Karin @ 160
The same thing, again. Americans only learn when it really hurts.
(Not just Cindy Sheehan herself, but the craven image of Dubya hiding from the mother of a soldier he killed.)
Cindy Sheehan was huge. Don’t judge her by her recent influence. For Joe 6pack, she was the first face of opposition to the war.
Renee in Ohio @ 143
Well, tell him to come in and have a seat. *g*
Eli – I refuse to write new material, so this nonsensical non sequitor will have to do (plus, I’m sparing you and everyone else a plague of “Best of the EPU on Myth and Marketing,” no matter how omnisciently they stand the test of time).
GordonM @ 184
I recall that some really ugly thing was said about him or his family being an atheist, and the blowback was considerable. Does anyone recall this incident?
Big Mitch @ 191
Not really, but the Republicans sure do love to smear them some war heroes.
SeamusD @ 187
Don’t think that’s it. There’s a 3 generation time limit. The ones who live through it are so scarred, they don’t talk about it and shield their children from it, but their children know anyway. The children don’t talk about it either, but they aren’t scarred, so their children don’t know any better.
Works for wars, too, but faster (unless an entire generation fights, as in the Civil War). Those who fight come out of a war saying “No more war, ever”. But they’re not up for fighting for anything, so the message dies, then the myth of military heroism gets built up and off we go again…
No, but you can pretty quickly google Pat Tillman Atheist and get the whole story.
Beautifully written, Eli.
(OMG EPU is posting – great to see you come out of the woodwork!)
Eli @ 192
Only the inconvenient ones.
Big Mitch @ 192
Yeah. A military type blew off his opposition to the Iraq war by saying ‘he and his family don’t believe in God, so no wonder they’re wacko’ or something. KO got pissed, but not sure how it played in Peoria.
landofthefree @ 195
doesn’t he come out of a wormhole?
Thanks, LOFT!
Behold, my words have such power that they have summoned EPU from The Great Beyond (probably saying “WTF is this shit? I pegged this over a year ago!”).
David Brooks (conservative columnist for the NYTimes) on PBS Newhour with Jim Lehrer:
I spent a lot of time up on the Hill this week, and there are a lot of different factions up on the hill but the basic conclusion I drew is that there not going to pass anything that will really change policy. … There is NO consensus about how to end it [the war].
[snip]
This afternoon, I spent 2 hours with the president today, and it is a different universe. If Patraedis comes back in September and says he wants more troops, he will get them. If he says he wants few troops he will get them. He’s not going to do anything other than what David Patraedis wants come come August or September.
GordonM @ 197
I remember that! What he said was that losing a loved one in combat was easier for a Christian because they know they’ve gone to A Better Place, but that atheists have no such solace.
Charming.
great post- dead on.. i was reminded of this article:
“American Mugabe” by David Michael Green
http://www.informationclearing…..e17467.htm
you can guess who the article is about.
don’t know if this is an old link for some of you, but it’s good reading if you haven’t….
GordonM says
Don’t think that’s it. There’s a 3 generation time limit. The ones who live through it are so scarred, they don’t talk about it and shield their children from it, but their children know anyway. The children don’t talk about it either, but they aren’t scarred, so their children don’t know any better.
Yes, but we’re not 3 generations from Vietnam and here we are in another Asian land war. Maybe the stabbed-in-the-back myth cancels out the 3 generation innoculation effect?
I’ve been at a family reunion all day (the nieces are really quite delightful, ages 4-18), so I have not had time to read through all the comments. However, I wanted to add one bit to the current mythologizing, which perhaps fits in with the Administration’s declared purpose to define reality (Susskind, 2004). The most recent example of what I am thinking about came when the class of high school valedictorians(?) presented Preznitwit Bush with a plea to stop torturing prisoners. To which our befuddled Preznitwit responded, “We don’t torture” as he has often proclaimed before. That is part of the Republican mythology. Just stating a bald falsehood is supposed to define reality for the rest of us. Don’t look behind the curtain, move along, nothing to see, don’t ask questions, we don’t torture.
Cheney probably told him we don’t torture, so our Idiot in Chief may actually believe it. But it is clearly what he wants US to believe.
We should always and everywhere declare these as blatant and self-serving lies.
Bob in
HIWIOT but you can see the pinpoint eye of typhoon Man-Yi off the southwest coast of Kyushu here.
http://www.goes.noaa.gov/FULLDISK/MTIR.JPG
This link changes every few hours.
More than a year ago ;-p
dachoste @ 202
Thanks! Interesting link, I’ll give it a look. I’ve been banging the drum that the difference between democracy and dictatorship is Accountability vs. Impunity. The Republicans are trying to create a culture of impunity for themselves.
Elliott @ 198
or a subspace anomaly?
Jay @ 110
Jay, you are absolutely correct. This is what has got us to this point.
Big Mitch @ 200
Brooks as usual was full of himself and full of it. He is relentless in pushing White House talking points so tonight he was flogging the Petraeus as great American general because he will say what Bush wants him to.
And Republican obstructionism becomes: there are many different points of view on Iraq.
Evil Parallel Universe @ 206
huh. Even more proof that you come from a parallel universe, but yours travels faster (and is more wise) than ours.
Does that mean ours is the evil one?
landofthefree @ 211
Let’s count mustaches.
(Also, “over” = “more than”…)
Neiwart with a new post upstairs
Bob in
HIWIthe evil parallel universe says “July 8th, 2006 at 11:00 pm
Eli – I’m cool with it so long as you consider EPUism a philosophy – sorta like Buddhism accept with more violence and a louder soundtrack”the ego accepts no bounds…………
love it…….hell hath no fury like the epu…………where ya been asshole?
LOFT – This one I’ll answer – I’ve always thought the answer to “which is the evil parallel universee” an easy one. HTH.
asdf @ 152
I think the second fifth thinks that they’re part of the top group because it makes them feel good (and they can afford nice houses and imported luxury cars, so they must be doing well, right? [/snark]).
The middle fifth knows better than that; they’re trying not to slide down the scale, and working hard, but they also feel that they ought to be able to have all the nice things that ‘everyone else they know’ has. (They also think they have a shot at winning the lottery. [/snark])
The fourth third thinks of the lottery as their retirement dream plan, knows somewhere in their hearts that they’re never going to do better than they already are, and is desperately trying to stay even. They don’t do many big-ticket purchases, because they know the money’s not there without winning the lottery. They may even recognize that retirement is effectively impossible.
Eli @ 207
gotta say, the more the republicans successfully manipulate the media, institutions, and trample the constitution with impunity, the more it becomes apparent that we need help…
james madison made a point that our government is held in check because it’s a pluralistic democracy, but at the same time, it was designed so that the lowly “common man” wouldn’t be able to wield much power…
Big Mitch @ 138
I’m glad to see people outside of New Orleans still talking about Katrina. It’s odd living here, even before Katrina this city didn’t really seem like part of the U.S. But after our abandonment, I think the break has been made. Please come one and come all to this city. It is an escape from the rest of the country, no one here is delusional about infallibility. No one here thinks that being an American entitles you to anything. It is a pure, pure, place with no unrealistic beliefs. The people here have seen behind the curtain, seen past all the propaganda, here we know from experience what this article presents, it’s all an illusion, there’s no greatness. But we know something else, it doesn’t matter. The city continues to rebuild, people continue to raise their children, we eat red beans and rice on Monday and fish on Friday and our coffee has chicory in it. It was this way before Katrina, it will be this way after Katrina. Occasionally, if you speak with someone older, whose from a multi generational New Orleans family, you will hear he or she refer to the tourist as Americans. It’s been that way since we were purchased over two hundred years ago.
Karin @ 203
Only a relatively small proportion of the population went to Vietnam. We’re really back to WWII before you get to a significant portion actually serving.
The small gap between WWI and WWII is really resentment in Germany – why FDR adopted the Marshall Plan. So those smear into each other.
The Civil War would be the big one for proportion of the population that saw combat or results thereof first hand, and if you read of people that lived through it, the “no more war, ever” is very clear.
And remember, not one of the *ssh*les promoting this war served in Vietnam.
selise @ 89
Also a message board to comment on tonite airing for impeachment
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..l#comments
boxer @ 218
Once I was stuck in Dallas for way, way too long. One weekend I couldn’t take anymore and went to NO. What a relief. Real people. Real music. No pretense. None of that “our sh*t don’t stink” you get most places.
But I’m a true Northerner – anything over 80F is way too hot for me.
Eli, thanks for a masterful post and discussion.
Thanks, Sunny, you’re too kind.
GordonM @ 221
That settles it, you’ve committed to come and anytime between October and March. Besides with global warming, you might as well start getting used to the heat.
Eli @ 124
I think there is a connection. There’s the ideal and hope and there’s the reality, both Constitutionally and in the Economic states Edwards refers to.
Somehow we have to find a way to live up to the Ideal and it’s the duty of leaders to present the Ideal and the Reality to remind us we’re not there yet, but we can get there if we focus our efforts together. I hope that whomever the Democrats nominate next is a real leader. We can’t afford a sham or someone destructive.
MarkH @ 225
I was thinking more in terms of that the wealthy are the ones actually living *in* Imaginary America, where everything is lined up for their convenience.
Eli @ 155
Trouble is the Senate Republicans didn’t get the memo. We have to break their will, so we can govern better. Since their bottom line is getting re-elected we have to get the public to convince them they’ll lose their jobs if they don’t cooperate with the Democratic leadership.
The one complaint I had about Moyer’s show tonight was that they didn’t differentiate between the Democratic activities and the Republican obstreperous obstructionism.
Once we show the public the Senate Repubs are blocking progress, then things ought to get better.
argosfalcon @ 102
Well, that was the Fall of Roman Republicanism…but the Empire actually had a few hundred more years before it collapsed. In fact, there was no “emperor” before Caesar crossed the Rubicon.
But as Franklin pointed out in the Constitutional debates in Philadelphia “impeachment” actually protects those who would be tyrants from losing their heads (in more than one way).
bhatten @ 135
I used to be against impeaching Bush/Cheney because of all that the country is going through, and felt that democrats would lose the gains they have made in the confidence of the people by persuing impeachment proceedings but this program opened my mind big time. Putting impeachment in its historical context as a useful constitutional tool cleanses it from the dirty name it got from Nixon and Clinton. I’m all for it now as a check on power tool for the current administration and more importantly for future administrations. The case that Bush’s abuses of power will set a precedent for the way future presidents use the office really struck a chord with me. Boy, a little constitutional history goes a long way in understanding our rights as citizens and how we are letting them slip away little by little. The voices of the founding fathers that were brought center stage in Moyer’s program spoke volumes tonight. Firedoglake needs to get the video of this program up for everybody to review and consider to the point of number one priority of progressive activity in the immediate future.
THANK YOU, Eli! I have been screaming this for years. And I get the same reaction you describe. Yes, even with my family. Of course, my mother grew up and raised children in quite a different era than my children now have. Yet, she refuses to believe that she had it easier than my kids do. (Yes, her not having a TV — in 1935! — in youth somehow related to my children not being able to afford to buy a home — like hers — for less than a million bucks.)
A wonderful post, and dead-on correct.
people are so afraid of inperfection- they always think admitting any kind of flaw destroys their beliefs..
like admitting that AMERICA, the shining light, may not be that bright.. instead of seeing reality and working to make it better, they scream bloody murder, and scream move to france
i think it’s similar to people who always talk about a divine jesus… i think that a human jesus is a much more inspiring and interesting figure… but then, i’m not christian…
P J Evans at 107, thanks for picking that up. I must say, the Moyers show did refresh my cranky outlook quite a bit, for now.
This is not the first time that democratic ideals in America have been under assault. For instance, it used to be legal to _own other people_ in the country where all men are created equal.
I believe that America is great, and my belief is not reflexive. This is a great country because we can change all this crap.
Did anyone see the video on Democracy Now of Pat Tillman’s death? One wonders why there was a video anyway….but..He was yelling I’m Pat Tillman while being repeatedly shot. Have heard he had turned against the war. It was not friendly fire…murder.