Of all the sad spectacles brought to us by Bush Presidency’s ongoing collapse, I think that perhaps the strangest and saddest of all must be the spectral form of Peggy Noonan huddled in the bleak chill of this strange new dawn, shivering like Hans Christian Andersen’s Little Match Girl as her thousand points of light go out one by one.
I found myself Thursday watching President Bush’s news conference and thinking about what it is about him, real or perceived, that makes people who used to smile at the mention of his name now grit their teeth.
Alas, Lady Peggy, mark me well! Pray, ask yourself how it would feel to grit your teeth for six years. Six very, very long (terribly long!) years. Where it’s always winter, and never Christmas.
I’m not referring to what used to be called Bush Derangement Syndrome. That phrase suggested that to passionately dislike the president was to be somewhat unhinged. No one thinks that anymore.
I’m going to assume that is as close as you will ever come to apologizing, Madam, therefore I accept. Cos it sure isn’t the President who’s changed. He is the same twitchy, smirking asshole he was on his first day at Yale.
In fact, do me a favor. Knowing what you know now, go back and watch a press conference from, say, 2004. Watch the smugness, the fatuous nonchalance, the dismissive half-shrugs. (”I’ve already stopped listening to your question, peasant!”)
Then factor in the mangled syntax, the misfired talking points, and the overall tone of pained condescension, “I’ll answer your question, but if you weren’t so stupid, you’d already know the answer.” Once the scales fall from your eyes, Peggy, every word he says makes you loathe him more.
Are you sure you want to go down this path, Ms. Noonan? Because once you attain this dark knowledge, gentle Lady, there is no turning back.
As I watched the news conference, it occurred to me that one of the things that might leave people feeling somewhat disoriented is the president’s seemingly effortless high spirits. He’s in a good mood. There was the usual teasing, the partly aggressive, partly joshing humor, the certitude.
In the Queen’s English, Peggy, we call that “being a dick”.
He doesn’t seem to be suffering, which is jarring. Presidents in great enterprises that are going badly suffer: Lincoln, LBJ with his head in his hands. Why doesn’t Mr. Bush? Every major domestic initiative of his second term has been ill thought through and ended in failure. His Iraq leadership has failed. His standing is lower than any previous president’s since polling began. He’s in a good mood. Discuss.
Mamaaaaa, he’s crazyyyy [/judds]
Seriously, Peg, the guy is a couple quarts low. He’s thrown a rod. Call him Ishmael. He has chained himself to the masts and commanded the oarsmen to ply ever onward, even as the ship of state begins to list to one side and ride lower and lower in the water.
Americans can’t fire the president right now, so they’re waiting it out.
Peggy, my darling, that is where you are wrong. There are clauses in the Constitution that were placed there for just such an occasion. Something about when a Chief Executive uses his powers of pardon to cover up his own crimes, wasn’t it?
George Mason (1725-1792), the father of the Bill of Rights (1791-2002), argued at the Constitutional Convention in favor of providing the House of Representatives the power of impeachment by pointing out that the President might use his pardoning power to “pardon crimes which were advised by himself” or, before indictment or conviction, “to stop inquiry and prevent detection.”
James Madison (1751-1836), the father of the U.S. Constitution (1788-2007), added that “if the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds to believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty.”
Seems pretty clear to me.
But chin up, dear lady. It may not work out for you guys in 2008, but I feel fairly certain that by 2012, you will have found yourselves a new empty suit with a heart made of tar. Some well-connected snake-oil salesman who can mouth the proper platitudes and maybe not get caught with a dead girl or a live boy in his bed.
Shouldn’t Damien be old enough to run for office by then?
Ohhhhh, wait a minute…
Related posts:
- Peggy Noonan Calls Rush, Newt, Conservative Activists “Idiots” for Attacking Sotomayor
- Peggy Noonan: 9/11 Wasn’t Bush’s Fault, But the Great Recession is All Obama’s
- Late Night: Republican Apologies, Now with More Groveling!
- Late Night: Sarah Palin Consults Her Little Black Book
- Peggy Noonan: Catering to the Base Hurts the Country, Except When Republicans are in Charge





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Zed
zed?
Narnia reference. XD
Didja let downstairs know CT? With a link to up here?
I think Peggy has trouble swallowing the truth.
Suzanne @ 4
Most certainly, Ma’am! ;-)
Suzanne @ 6
Nice girls never swallow.
TRex @ 7
Honey, I think you have that backwards.
aliasofwestgate @ 3
Whoa, I missed the reference the first readthrough…I was busily pouring the therapod’s words over my tongue, savoring them. Great post!
Good evening again my friends. Congrats CT.
The times they are a changing
calling for contempt: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07…..4sat2.html
hey tex
Really? What do I know from girls and blow jobs? Nothin’, dat’s what. Whaddya want from me, blood?
Shadowstalker @ 9
It took me a minute to remember where i’d heard that reference. Then i remembered Lucy…and there it was! An excellent way to describe these last years, sadly. Now all we have ot do is find our Aslan, or do it ourselves.
I have just watched Bill Moyers’ show for this week about why we have to impeach Bush and Cheney now, because if we just wait them out, and they do leave, then the next President, whomever it may be will use the established Presidential right to break the law without consequence. Is that what we want?
Barack Obama is a Leo.
barry @ 15
It is what I want.
barry @ 15
Watching it now. This is tremendous teevee.
Okay, gang. Time to feed. But first I have to run to the store for some smokes.
Did anyone see Moyers tonight. He had on John Nichols and Bruce Fein. It was all about impeaching Bush and Cheney. Congress needs to watch this. Maybe it would educate them and shame them in the process.
TexB @ 10
Thanx, Ma’am! Have ya’ll dried out yet?
Anyone want some cookies and milk? Not sure how I managed to hide them from the kids, but I’ve got enough for all of you.
CTuttle @ 21
Dry and hot.
Do you think Nooner has the goopers pooping in their diapers?
Oh. She’s not a hooker. …Or is she?
CTuttle @ 1
Hot Diggety Dog, Bo … you got zunoed … Woo Hoo
TexB @ 23
Texas is back.
And I am gone. Nite, all. Channeling EDP, be excellent to one another.
TRex @ 16
So is mrbrat – he thinks Obama will end up on Hill’s ticket.
Mutant Poodle @ 26
Sleep well Mutant
I am now thinking that the House Dems don’t have the votes for a contempt citation. Meirs should have had been cited the day she didn’t show..sub-committee > committee > full house..done. The WH would then be forced to get a restraining order and then start the litigation.
But no..nada..from Conyers..Pelosi..I don’t think they have the votes..and if that is true..it’s bad news.
boxer @ 11
I can’t wait to see the WaPo’s response.
BY PEGGY NOONAN
Friday, September 22, 2000 12:01 a.m. EDT
SNIP
Rick Lazio and George W. Bush are Dumb-Good. They aren’t followed by a thick cloud of scandal because they don’t make scandal; they appear to be good, honest men, normal men, maybe too normal. They seem more or less average in their interests, affections, gifts. No one hates them, because they’re not at all wicked. They’re not liars; they’re not thieves; they’re not power-mad, and no one will ever call their wives Evita. They’re good men. But they don’t have first-rate minds; they don’t inspire us with their insights or the brilliance of their understanding of the world. They would never say of an element of welfare reform that it is the biggest abrogation of governmental responsibility since the Corn Laws, as Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said. They won’t be writing learned monographs any time soon.
Mr. Bush, as we all know, has a tendency to mispronounce words, like a bright and nervous boy trying to show the admissions director that he’s well-read. His syntax is highly individualistic. He’s bouncy and affectionate and funny in a joshy way as opposed to a witty way.
But he is, almost transparently, a good man. He cares about children; he wants government to be honest; he wants to protect his country from bad guys; he wants to stand up for those who protect us. He is a good governor, he has a natural sympathy for those–the hardware store owner and the woman who starts her own housecleaning company–who are taxed and regulated to death in America. He thinks this abusive. He wants to liberate them. If he becomes president–when, I believe, he becomes president–he will drive conservatives to distraction with his tendency to think with his heart, and not his brain.
SNIP
PEGGY ARTICLE ARCHIVE HERE
Go to her archive and see if you can you find a better one. lol
This is a carry over from the last thread, but we can’t sit on the sidelines and watch our hope for getting rid of Joe evaporate. Please speak out anyway you can. We have to force Vitter to resign now, before he regains his footing.
http://blog.nola.com/updates/2…..er_gu.html
Steve-AR @ 28
Christy explained this earlier. There’s a protocol that has to be followed. And they’re following it.
Petrocelli @ 25
Thanx, I checked out your web site, nice graphics, but you need to flesh it out a bit more! You don’t mention any sort of techniques or methodology to nirvana! Just a thought!
newspaperbrat @ 27
I see Gore/Edwards … that is what I “visualize” daily … intelligence, integrity & charm …
Peggy Noonan–4-7-2003:
It is important who he is. George W. Bush is an American of the big and real America. He believes in it all–in the vision of the founders, in the meaning of freedom, in the founding and enduring ideas of our country. He believes in America’s historic insistence on humanity and not inhumanity in war, and he appears to have internalized the old saying that “one man with courage is a majority.”
The Damien link at the end is priceless.
Peggy, gird your loins and suck it up, you brought the Chimp in Chief into power, now you “got to dance with the one what brung ya.”
A Hillary/Obama ticket is fine with me. I would prefer an Edwars/ Obama ticket, but Edwards is fading into the distance.newspaperbrat @ 27
off topic – Odd question. If a person with a disability or disorder or disease is subpoenaed by a court or by congress and is too ill to respond/attend on a particular day, what happens?
Frank Probst @ 33
Where did Christy enumerate the protocol?
xargaw @ 20
… and to listen to the the folks back home.
Dude, whatever you’re drinking this evening, pour me one.
CTuttle @ 40–I just remember it from the liveblogging.
CTuttle @ 34
That’s exactly my intent, to create interest in wanting to learn the techniques and methodology …
… which I impart in my course. If I say too much, there is no more interest in learning … sell the sizzle, as it were … send me your suggestions via Facebook when you have some time … thank you in advance for all your suggestions !
TexB @ 17
Not what I want.
What I want is a banana split.
Loo Hoo. @ 45
Tonight is cookies and milk. Maybe banana splits tomorrow.
TexB @ 39
They can accomodate by Teleconference or Video, like they did with the TB-infected Attorney from his Denver hospital room!
Here’s the most depressing line from Noonan’s article: “Americans have always been somewhat romantic about the meaning of our country, and the beacon it can be for the world, and what the Founders did.”
Note the phrasing on America’s role as a beacon for the world: She says “it can be”, not “it is”. To me, that’s one of the most accurate–and saddest–assessments of the effect of the Bush presidency.
Steve-AR @ 28
Randi Rhodes said they only need a simple majority. THEY HAVE IT AND NEED TO USE IT!
Frank Probst @ 48
It is also the way BushCo frame their statements … how it can be, never how it is … reality is so inconvenient …
I cannot believe some of Peggy’s writings about dear leader. My gosh. How corny they are and it is like she was getting paid for writing them.
Here’s another: Bush-A Modest Man of Faith
11-2-2000: by Peggy Noonan (pre 9/11)
Mr. Bush is at odds with the spirit of the past eight years in another way. He appears to be wholly uninterested in lying, has no gift for it, thinks it’s wrong.
This is important at any time, but is crucial now. The next president may well be forced to shepherd us through the first nuclear event since World War II, the first terrorist attack or missile attack. “Man has never had a weapon he didn’t use,” Ronald Reagan said in conversation, and we have been most fortunate man has not used these weapons to kill in the past 50 years. But half the foreign and defense policy establishment fears, legitimately, that the Big Terrible Thing is coming, whether in India-Pakistan, or in Asia or in lower Manhattan.
Fine Peggy, but instead of “waiting him out”, why don’t you call for his resignation? Is it because you know Cheney would be worse? I’m sure you fought hard to keep up the denial, but now you know and you see the nightmare. What are you going to do about it?
Petrocelli @ 44
Can Do!!! ;-)
Peggy Noonan, after the State Of The Union, early 2003. Her words:
“This, truly, is a good man. And that is a rare thing. Agree with Mr. Bush’s stands or disagree, there can be no doubting the depth of his seriousness and the degree to which he attempts to do what he is convinced is right, and to lead his country toward that vision of rightness. We have had many unusual men as president and some seemed like a gift and some didn’t. Mr. Bush seems uniquely resolved to be as courageous as the times require and as helpful as they allow. There is a profound authenticity to him, and a fearlessness too.
A steady hand on the helm in high seas, a knowledge of where we must go and why, a resolve to achieve safe harbor. More and more this presidency is feeling like a gift.”
A gift. If you can call a flaming bag of dog crap on your doorstep a gift.
Just a heads up for later, around midnight ca time, the servers will be down for between 10 and 20 minutes for some server work.
Hi. I’ve been gorging on Xanadu the musical press and video all night. What have I missed?
Frank Probst @ 43
Oh Well! Ce la vie!!!
I liked TRex’ use of the following:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LLsT0wtNGGk
Perhaps little ole Peggy is trying to flee from the Fuhrer’s bunker now that the rest of the rats are jumping ship.
I think it’s sad that seven years into the most sadistic president ever, the most corrupt, the most empiric White House, that some of the sycophants finally see the reality that half of us saw in 1999 or earlier… that the emperor never had any clothes.
History will not be kind to G.W.B. He will be known as the worst president ever.
Gavin M. @ 42
Hey Gavin!
Nevorick @ 59
I agree. Noonan just figured out her priest is a pedophile. I’ll judge her now on what she does next.
The way to reaffirm America is to replace the commander-in-chief.
Reaffirm America…
Replace the commander-in-chief.
ccmask @ 51
Per Russ Baker http://www.tompaine.com/articl…..to_war.php
Like TRex said, “[I]t sure isn’t the President who’s changed.”
TRex,
Mr. Rex?
may i call you Tyrannosaurus?
TRex, you once again wield the (exquisite, we presume) pen with a deft adroitness rarely seen in primates let alone in the 60 ft. therapods.
dude, you are so cool And you keep getting better.
here in texas we got six extra years with gov. bush to get our head start on the teeth gritting.
BULLSEYE! Give the Man a cigar!
excellent, just too frigging good: poetry.
[ka-snip like]
i think i’ll have this printed up on cards with “George W. Bush” on the other side and pass them out.
rumsfeld and cheney do the “pained condescension” routine real well too.
thanks, trex.
the teeth gritting isn’t quite a painful as it was before.
and good night
Nevorick @ 59
I would prefer he be known as the only president tried, convicted, and jailed, with the rest of his criminal cabal of co-conspirators.
David did show up after we left downstairs:
David Neiwert says:
July 13th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
Sorry I’m late chiming in, everyone. I’m prepping to ride the Seattle to Portland Classic tomorrow and I’ve been off gorging. And alas, because I need to get some sleep, my time here tonight will be necessarily short. I’ll try to answer some of the questions and, if there are more later, I’ll try to chime in tomorrow late, if I’m not keeled over.
Now to http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..429>Big Mitch, regarding the executive-privilege claim in the Tillman story:
[H]ow can we of the progressive blogosphere, (including dirty fucking hippies like myself) influence the MSM to carry this story?
Great question, and I agree that this is a story that reeeks like a smegmatic cloaca. However, of course, no easy answers. I can tell you that, locally at least, it doesn’t hurt to call and talk to the ME of your local newspaper, or at least e-mail them, and point it out as newsworthy. Urge other people to do the same. You can create upwards pressure within the news-budget framework sometimes to get national movement on a story; if there are enough MEs inquiring, the AP eventually will start checking on and providing the coverage.
National entities simply ignore nobodies like us, so forget about being able to influence that as Joe Citizen. On the other hand, you can always blog. Really. I mean, what blogs can bring to this story is providing background and context; explaining the law as it pertains to executive privilege (I’m frankly dubious that this would be allowable, though I’m sure the Bushites have some kind of flimsy rationale worked out; these people are all from the Ted Olson school of lawyering) and raising the big question: What does Bush have to hide?
May I also suggest dropping a note to Digby? This thing is right up her alley. But if I can clear out some workspace next week, I’ll give it a shot as well.
In the meantime, hell, start your own blog if you haven’t got one yet. Start putting some of this stuff down. You’d be amazed at what it can do to keep this kind of story alive, at the very least.
Wigwam: Peggy was pretty smart in 2000. She nailed the Manhattan terror attack and a missile attack (plane in Pennsylvania), with this statement: But half the foreign and defense policy establishment fears, legitimately, that the Big Terrible Thing is coming, whether in India-Pakistan, or in Asia or in lower Manhattan.
Bitch. I guess good ole Peggy is getting nervous there might be a draft and she has a 20 year old son.
Petrocelli, thanks to the HuffPo info on Gupta/Moore downstairs. Cheers!
Suzanne @ 65
Dingdingdingdingding!!!!!
Suzanne @ 5
she scrupulously avoids anything ….. distateful.
kind of like, the church lady.
As would I. I think we have a 50/50 shot right now, but these dead enders are not in their last throes, they will not give up, and I desperately hope that the GOP Senators realize to save this nation, they will have to break free from the Unitary King and save this nation from the dark cancer that is Bush/Cheney.
TexB @ 46
Thanks. I saw the cookies after the bratty request for the banana split…
Suzanne@65
If I may add to your statement, “I would prefer he be known as the only president tried, convicted, and jailed, with the rest of his criminal cabal of co-conspirators”, convicted in The Hague for crimes against humanity, and summarily hung.
I realize this may not please the anti-death-penaly crowd, but I am marginally one of them. His is a special case, in my opinion.
By the way, great photo Petrocelli!
She is in the same class with Judith Miller. Thanks for calling my attention to her Trex. Seriously, reading through her archives is very telling. It is amazing that a newspaper let her ramble on about Little Boots in every damn article.
Shadowstalker @ 73
Excellent. I think I am going to bow out before the imagery of his hanging gets too graphic.
Good night my friends.
barry @ 15
IMPEACH NOW. it’s the right thing to do.
Bill Moyers says so too.
Loo Hoo. @ 49
I missed the CHS contempt protocol..I just used info from..
The Congressional Subpoena Power: How It Is Enforced
By Big Tent Democrat, Section Law Related
Posted on Sun Jul 08, 2007 at 04:03:01 PM EST
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/7/8/1731/15806
Ten Dems voted against the War resolution..no Repub will vote for contempt..they may not have the votes..In the Senate it would be 60 votes..no contempt from the Senate.
alexandriacynic @ 74
It’s now my background pic. :)
Loo Hoo. @ 68
Gupta made himself a hero of the establishment … only problem is that his statements are based on lies that Moore disproved in 24 hours or less.
Gupta should be sledged in the blogosphere … I hope there will be mass protest in the form of letters to the A.M.A. and to whatever journalist association Sanjay belongs to … he deserves a rap on the knuckles for his sad display !
With D’Souza, Pommuru and Gupta gaining limelight, I recommend to Michael Moore this title for his next book … “Stupid Brown Men” …
See you guys on the flip flop. Tuning in now *poof*
Anyone who has lived in West Texas can recognize the disingenuous wise-ass smirk that indicates the speaker doesn’t give a shit. It indicates that the speaker is shoveling b.s. for the purpose of gaining advantage over someone who might actually care and is therefore weak. It is the smirk that Dubya could not contain when he spoke to the Congress and the nation on Sept. 14. At times I feel that Molly Ivins and I were the only ones to notice it.
This is off topic but I thought for any Patrick Fitzgerald/DOJ fans the Conrad Black verdict today was really huge. You can access the complete news conference held by the prosecutors via this URL where there is a menu of ctv video feeds regarding the verdict and click on the “Prosecutors News Conference” (20 minutes long)Sorry if it’s already been posted. It’s good viewing and demonstrates that at least some rules of law are being upheld.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/Arti…..TopStories
I also saw the Moyers program that was incredible well done and an inspiration to resume letter writing/phone calling/emailing to congresscritters to put Impeachment squarely back on the table
neokneme @ 24
Call Girl ……
alexandriacynic @ 74
Thanks … someone sent it to me a while back … can’t remember who it was … *g*
See my wall for my interpretation of the photo.
Lets keep all statements that wish for or reference an unnatural death to a minimum please.
ccmask @ 67
Yup. I find here prescience to be somewhat startling, even suspicious.
Petrocelli @ 86
Would you mail it to me in higher res than I see it on facebook?
Holy shit! I just finished watching Bill Moyer’s journal. I am trembling.
xargaw @ 20
It was great when Nichols said about Speaker Pelosi, “She’s wrong.”
I’m writing her an email tonite to ask her what other sections of the Constitution she thinks she can take off the table. It’s not your job to take anything off the table, lady, and stop acting like it is.
If anyone did not see it, he or she should immediately get up from the computer and set the tivo to see it when it replays.
Amilius @ 82
FWIW, many of us in Canada saw that, as well as Laura’s “Stepford Wife smile” and knew what was coming …
ccmask @ 51
OMG.
Back so soon, Teddy? Me, too.
It lived up to its advanced billing, didn’t it?
Marcy has a post up about the Embarrassment Privilege.
TeresaPChicago @ 83
Please America … start sending those letters, e- mails and faxes and make those phone calls or knock on their doors … tell them to vote for impeachment or you will campaign against them the next time around … the rest of the world is counting on you !!!
The Libby commutation was the tipping point.
The refusal to turn over the Pat Tillman papers re-enforces it.
Bill Moyers show tonight gave definition and justification to impeachment in brilliant and broad terms.
I writing Pelosi now and telling her to find a TV and watch the program. And tomorrow I am putting an Impeach Bush/Cheney sign in my yard. And on Saturday I am tabling at Walmart to stop the war. Damn it!
Big Mitch @ 89
Hi Big Mitch! Some show.
Did you notice who was sitting behind Fein while he testified @ Bubba’s impeachment hearing? Jonathan Turley, another respected Constitutional scholar who believed Bill Clinton should have been impeached.
Money quote:
Impeachment is not a constitutional crisis. It is the cure for a constitutional crisis.
TexB @ 88
Yes’m … I will e-mail you the pix I have … not sure what res it is …
Big Mitch @ 91
It will appear on his website in a day or two … for those without Tivo …
Big Mitch @ 89
Synopsis, please !!!
Impeachment would be a boon for the cable companies.
…hint hint…
“Seriously, Peg, the guy is a couple quarts low. He’s thrown a rod.” IMHO, he’s just your average, every day, garden-variety, right-wing psychopath, who happens to have been selected President of the United States. Cheney is the one that I really worry about.
marymccurnin @ 97
But is it impeachable? Damn straight.
Didn’t I. Lewis scoot out of jail because of his “political affiliation”? Damn straight, again.
GabrielOak @ 104
An excellent perspective!
I am still wondering why the WH, with Taylor, Meirs and now Tillman is not even pretending to be lawful. Before they usually had some contorted legal cover..now it’s just a “fuck you very much.”
For my Late late Nite, Tin Foil Hat speculation, I wonder if Fred Fielding’s old partner in WH obstruction, John Roberts, has sent Fred a don’t worry..The Scotus will protect any and all WH wrong doing message.
alexandriacynic @ 74
Where?
Petrocelli @ 102
Two scholars fervently arguing for impeachment. One is Bruce Fein, a Republican conservative who drafted the articles of impeachment against Clinton. The other a liberal, Hohn Nichols, author of “The Genius of Impeachment.”
Petrocelli @ 35
ReElect President Gore & VP John Edwards 2008!
Mitch
The commutation was the anger tipping point. I believe it was legally also but people are pissed. They have had it.
John Nichols, not Hohn
Petrocelli @ 96. Absolutely will do That program was a truly compelling call to action, I am so glad I was home to watch it. Although I am wondering about the lack of true statesmen they referenced. Pelosi obviously does not fit the bill but I think Whitehouse, Leahy, Shumer could be compelled…what the hell they could all be compelled with enough phone calls, emails, etc. So if they are simply politically motivated so be it. But those three are former federal prosecutors. Why are they not stepping up more forcefully to the plate? Why didn’t they call Taylor on obvious Hatch violations (Whitehouse)? Why so much tip-toeing
Petrocelli @ 96
Ding! Ding! Ding!
You go MaryMcCurrin! MEE TOO
Big Mitch. I just finished watching the Moyer’s bit too. And I really liked the panel discussion with the constitutional lawyer and the author of the genius of impeachment.
I was thinking about their comment about WHY the Democrats don’t start the impeachment process and I thought about how it would be talked about in the right-wing noise machine. They would scream as if THEY were being impeached.
Look at how they screamed on right-wing radio when they had a hit of the fairness doctrine coming back.
They can all say that Bush is a lame duck and “I’m not going to carry water for the President anymore.” but they will never agree with a Democrat who starts an impeachment proceeding.
You know who should start it? A Republican.
I think that a Republican presidential candidate should start talking impeachment.
Like only a liberal could go after welfare, maybe only a republican can go after a republican president.
But I’m sure that this has already be talked about here. Sorry if I’m redundant.
Loo Hoo. @ 108
Click on my “f” to see my facebook pic.
marymccurnin @ 111
This was discussed on the show, and these two very intelligent, erudite scholars agree with you. But it was taped before this Tillman thing.
All Americans need to act like citizens and not subjects.
paraphrasing John Nichols.
Steve-AR @ 79
1. voting against the War Resolution and voting against a Contempt Citation is not the same thing.
2. correct me if i’m wrong: the Senate doesn’t vote on a contempt citation from the House.
Just arriving.
God, that video is painful, especially the eyeshadow.
Steve-AR @ 107
Will someone lodge a complaint with the State Bar Assoc. that Fielding is affiliated with ?
excellent point, spocko.
Steve-AR @ 107
This is the point made by John Nichols, who, BTW writes for the Nation. He was not as succinct as you are. :-)
Petrocelli @ 102
Yes, please. I didn’t get it here for some unknown reason. KPBS San Diego.
Fuck John Roberts. If the supreme court rules against the people again (re 2000) I don’t think the citizens will remain quiet or calm.
Loo Hoo. @ 125
see 109 above.
Loo Hoo. @ 125
There is a Moyers podcast – forget where I signed up for it and I’m too tired to look, but you may be able to get it that way.
Petrocelli @ 102
Any link? Can it be watched online?
wigwam @ 88
don’t forget that the Twin Towers had already had an attack in ‘93. Also, Madison Smart Bell wrote a pretty good novel much earlier than that about a terrorist nuclear weapon in NYC. Don’t remember the title …..
fahrender @ 120
Agree with #1, my only point is there may be enough DINO’s to prevent a majority.
#2 You are correct, it is only a majority vote in the body where the contempt occurred. My point was that with the Senate “rules” a contempt citation for the SJC ain’t going to happen. Conyers and the HJC are the group that has the best shot of getting a contempt citation to the DC USA.
marymccurnin @ 126
Kennedy has to be convinced to vote on the side of law and order.
newspaperbrat @ 110
I second that emotion!
Alicia @ 129
Right here in a couple of days.
Okay, here’s my email to my Congresswoman. Any of you may use any parts of it you like when writing at http://www.speaker.gov/contact/
I am re-watching it while I type. These guys PASSIONATELY believe that if W is not appropriately held to account, the next president will be handed more power than the founders would have ever contemplated. They both find this to be a crucial time in our nation’s history in which the fate of the republic is in doubt. This, in their view (and FWIW my own) a time in which the very tyranny that propelled us to revolution in 1776 threatens us again. And they do not shy away from indicting the invertibrate press, either.
Big Mitch @ 136
If W isn’t held to account there won’t be another election.
Excellent letter, Teddy.
Big Mitch @ 106
Didn’t I. Lewis scoot out of jail because of his “political affiliation”? Damn straight, again.
Ordering Harriet Meiers not to appear before the House is also an impeachable offense. There’s an article about it by a prominent lawyer over at Harper’s Magazine website.
Petrocelli @ 103
It’s finally about to begin here in Hawai’i! *g*
TeresaPChicago @ 113
I think Schumer, Feingold and Whitehouse were smirking at how easily she capitulated, Feingold left half way through … and her attorney was sweating buckets … the SJC will encourage her to flip or face contempt … these guys are hunting Big Game !
I think Conyers should give up his chair to someone who can rein in the Repugs as well as they reined in the Dem. minority for 6 years !
For those who miss analogies on the SATs
John Dean: Richard Nixon :: Harriet Meiers:George W.
the difference is that Nixon wasn’t corrupt enough to conceive of trying to stop Dean from testifying.
“”If it weren’t for the commutation of Libby’s sentence, we would not be sitting at this table talking about impeachment right now.”
newtonusr @ 134
Thank you!
Best observation in the Moyers show:
A constitutional crisis occurs when the President claims sweeping powers on specious terms.
Impeachment is what you use to solve the constitutional crisis, by bringing the scope of presidential powers back in line.
Petrocelli @ 117
Beautiful indeed. Nothing like what Mother Nature can produce, huh? Did you take that pic?
Alicia @ 129
Hey Alicia !!!
It should be up on his site in a couple of days – Linky
I liked the story John Nichols told about the little wooden toolbox of Presidential powers, that no President ever lets anything be removed from. And how this pResident would handover a huge box filled with monarchical powers, that he had grappled from Congress and the American people, that the next President(s) would never, ever give back.
The point is that we need to establish the Constitutional wrongness now, or we will never again have a chance to do so.
boxer @ 32
Why? I mean, yes, I agree he should go, but I don’t see any particular rush about it.
Let the Louisianans and, especially, the Republicans force Vitter out. He’s their millstone. In the meantime, David Vitter makes such a beautiful model of Mainstream Republican Values — it’d be an awful shame to end the entertaintment so precipitously.
Petrocelli @141 – Do you think they were setting her up for charges of Hatch Act violations and a contempt citation?
fahrender @ 139
It’s also a criminal offense. There is nothing in the Constitution protecting the President from criminal prosecution. It’s just not done because executive immunity is assumed. There is no reason that Chaney couldn’t be charged..Spiro Agnew was and he resigned.
marymccurnin @ 119
T-shirts? Cafe Press?
*Reminder*
Server work is going to be done and the Lake will be down for between 10 and 20 minutes between 2400 and 0100 PDT
marymccurnin @ 119
Excellent quote !!!
TeddySanFran @ 147
Was it just me, or did you also think of.. bridge tolls?
Loo Hoo. @ 145
Nope, and I don’t remember who sent it to me … *g*
George Washington handed the box back..probably his second greatest achievement.
Big Mitch @ 143
Alicia @ 129
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html
Thanks again to selise.
Steve-AR @ 29
It gets better. Not only is it bad news that they don’t think they have the votes, it’s bad news that their attitude is “why bother trying?”
Attention dumbass democratic reps: putting republican reps on record as opposing the rule of law will hurt them in 2008. Portraying yourselves as the “roll over” party will hurt you in 2008. These are not difficult concepts to follow.
Loo Hoo. @ 151
I’ll design and upload Tshirts tomorrow.
albert fall at 144.
I liked part that too. I especially liked how they worked hard to make sure that impeachment wasn’t to be seen as an ax. And worked to correct Bill on that metaphor. I think we underestimate the need to correct bad metaphors. The right wing noise machine is always coining and using metaphors and pushing them. When we have a good one, use it. If we see a bad one, correct it.
For example, I worked very hard to make sure people knew that my work on KSFO was NOT a boycott of the advertisers, but an education program. But of course the stupid Howard Kurtz didn’t bother to understand the difference and called it a boycott. Having the wrong metaphor on OUR side does hurt us.
How did they describe it again? As the cure for the constitution crisis?
So much in that short 55 minutes, but the Nixon is to Dean as Bush is to Miers was extraordinary. Not even Richard Nixon thought to demand his former White House counsel not testify before Congress.
Thank goddess that woman’s not a Supreme. The bozos we got aren’t any better, but she’s an authoritarian cultist. They are simply fascist autocrats. And they can be impeached.
From the Moyer’s Journal tonight:
John Nichols, author of “The Genius of Impeachment.”
TeresaPChicago @ 149
I am a yoga/meditation teacher, in a family of Lawyers & Doctors … some of the excellent Legal Eagles here can answer this … is Frank Probst or Rayne around ?
Sara stepped outside her Executive Privilege and apparently that rendered it null and void. So, if she does not answer the questions properly and respectfully, they are going to charge her petulant *ss with contempt !
JGabriel @ 148
Steve-AR @ 131
Actually, that’s not quite correct. It depends on whether inherent or statutory contempt is pursued. If it’s statutory contempt, then it must be voted on in both branches of Congress.
For inherent contempt, only the branch bringing the charge need vote on it — thus providing yet another reason for the House to pursue Miers’ contempt charge through the inherent contempt process.
.
Suzanne @ 152
Is someone starting a thread on Facebook?
Big Mitch @ 142
There was a very different “feel” at the time of H2O-Gate then there is now. Just with the criminality that we know about, it is orders of magnitude worse. Nixon was corrupt within the bounds of American Politics..Bush and today’s Republican Party are an evil previously unknown in this country.
marymccurnin @ 160
Hold on and I will get the exact quote.
spocko @ 161
From memory: “Bill Moyers, you are making a mistake. Impeachment is not a constitutional crisis. It is the cure for a constitutional crisis.”
marymccurnin @ 126
Dread Pirate Roberts wrote a number of memos for Fielding on the subject of executive immunity. If he does not recuse himself from any case on the subject we will be left with nothing but mobs with pitchforks and torches in the street to defend the constitution.
And what if they hold an impeachment and the Imperator just blows it off? Crossing the Rubicon, indeed.
Suzanne @ 153
Will that mean no comments or refreshing, while its’ down?
petrocelli, its for 10 and not more than 20 minutes – a fairly short time. if you want to but for me, on dialup, about the time i got there, the lake should be back up
TeddySanFran @ 162
Make It So Madame Speaker – We Have Your Back!
rats – too long for a bumper sticker – :~(
hepwa @ 54
[…]
I liken this presidency more to a swift kick in the marbles, but whatever floats your boat. :)
“There are a hundred or more people wandering around Washington today who have heard the ‘real stuff,’ as they put it – and despite their professional caution when the obvious question arises, there is one reaction they all feel free to agree on: that nobody who felt shocked, depressed or angry after reading the edited White House transcripts should ever be allowed to hear the actual tapes, except under heavy sedation or locked in the trunk of a car. Only a terminal cynic, they say, can listen for any length of time to the real stuff without feeling a compulsion to do something like drive down to the White House and throw a bag of live rats over the fence.”
- Hunter S. Thompson, 04 July 1973
CT – it means they gotta take the servers down in order to work on em so no Lake for 10 to 20 minutes sometime between midnight and 1am PDT
Steve-AR @ 168
I agree with you. But the smartest guy I know (and I know a lot of smart guys) disagrees. He sees this as business as usual.
This is very disheartening to me, because this guy graduated Cum Laude from Harvard in Government. He is 25 years old.
Suzanne @ 177
Roger that!!!
I love your eloquence, TREX. But if I recall Moby Dick, I think it’s Captain Ahab you are thinking of, not poor Ishmael, the lone survivor of the wreck. Bush is so Ahab, the crazed, delusional, death-obsessed fool, uncaring if he takes our whole country down with him.
Big Mitch @ 169
woo woo loo hoo !
Big Mitch @ 177
Did I mention he is my son?
@ 166
The Contempt Power
When the executive branch refuses to release information or allow officials to testify, Congress may decide to invoke its contempt power. Although the legislative power of contempt is not expressly provided for in the Constitution and exists as an implied power, as early as 1821 the Supreme Court recognized [it.] . . If either Housevotes for a contempt citation, the President of the Senate or the Speaker of the House shall certify the facts to the appropriate U.S. Attorney, “whose duty it shall be to bring the matter before the grand jury for its action.” Individuals who refuse to testify or produce papers are subject to criminal contempt, leading to fines and imprisonment.
And with Gorsuch:
On December 2, the Administration withheld 64 documents from the subcommittee. . . . By a vote of 9 to 2, a subcommittee of the House Public Works Committeedecided to cite Gorsuch for contempt. The full committee did likewise, after it rejected a Justice Department proposal to give briefings on the contents of the documents. The House of Representatives voted 259 to 105 to support the contempt citation. . . Pursuant to the statutory procedures for contempt citations, the Speaker certified the facts and referred them to the U.S. Attorney for presentation to a grand jury. The Justice Department, anticipating the House vote, moved quickly: “Immediately after the House vote and prior to the delivery of the contempt citation,” the department chose not to prosecute the case. Instead, it asked a district court to declare the House action an unconstitutional intrusion into the President’s authority to withhold information from Congress.
Each Chamber of Congress can issue a contempt citation independent of the other Chamber. With Inherent contempt, it is enforced directly and bypasses the USA and the Grand Jury. Inherent contempt was last used in 1934.
IANAL..
TeddySanFran @ 135
Thanks, Teddy. Here’s mine.
Dear Speaker Pelosi,
I respect your work very much, but I am concerned about the most important issue of our time.
Bush/Cheney/Gonzales need to be impeached. It is the only remedy that our Founders wrote into our Constitution for criminal activity on the part of the executive. It is past time for this remedy. They have shown lawlessness like no other administration in our history.
I hope that you and your fellow representatives will do your part in upholding our Constitution.
Please put impeachment back on the table Monday morning.
Sincerely,
You are making the mistake that too many people make. You are seeing impeachment as a constitutional crisis. Impeachment is the cure for a constitutional crisis.
wigwam @ 175
Sort of makes you wonder what compulsion people would feel today if they knew what the Pretzelman and his minions were really saying behind closed doors.
Big Mitch @ 181
All I can say is that I was in DC at the time..and that was my feel.
My eyes are leading me to bed.
Good night good people.
You make me happy.
Steve-AR @ 183
Is Gorsuch still being litigated, did the District Court issue a finding yet?
newspaperbrat @ 173
How about … “Support The Constitution”
Great letters, folks. Don’t forget your Senators and House reps. Especially your House of Rep reps. Impeachment is started in the House and then moves to the Senate for the “trial”.
Steve-AR @ 186
I was in lawschool during watergate. After Agnew was gone, there was a hopeful feeling that this was a terrible wrong but it was going to be righted.
Here comes the quote.
That’s the point where the fall comes. It comes when the people accept that role of subject and are no longer citizens.
wigwam @ 165
I can certainly see the case for wanting Blanco to be able to appoint Vitter’s replacement ASAP.
But other than that… I just don’t see any way that Vitter can hold on to his seat. He’s just too good a rhetorical tool for the Democrats. It makes all subjects all talk of values by the Republicans to the undeniable retort, “This is coming from the party that has a bona fide whoremongerer in the Senate.”
Vitter will be gone, and soon. The Republicans really can’t afford to let him stay.
(Pause for thought)
OTOH, I guess they really can’t afford to lose another seat in the Senate either. Damn. What a dilemma.
All right, I concede. You have: a point.
at the very end of the discussion. followed by fucking cheney being sworn in.
@ 188..
Counsel for the House of Representatives urged the court not to intervene, requesting it to dismiss the case. The court dismissed the government’s suit on the ground that judicial intervention in executive-legislative disputes “should be delayed until all possibilities for settlement have been exhausted.” The court urged both parties to devote their energies to compromise and cooperation, not confrontation. After the court’s decision, which the Justice Department chose not to appeal, the Administration agreed to release “enforcement sensitive” documents to the House Public Works Committees, beginning with briefings and redacted copies and eventually ending with the unredacted documents.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/7/8/1731/15806
Petrocelli – I guess I would direct my question to any lawyer out and about on the lake (although your qualifications are nonetheless impressive)
Do any lawyers feel that Ms. Taylor was being purposely plied and after her frank admission of Hatch act violations during the Whitehouse questioning, might she now be under consideration for indictment and/or contempt for her selective choice of questions to respond to?
Also – what on earth could her lawyer have been thinking??
marymccurnin @ 160
Wonderful! How about a semicolon instead of the word and?
TeresaPChicago @ 196
She wil not be indicted. Period. (1) She did not admit to Hatch act violations. In fact, she was very impressive in her defense of it. (2) She is way to sympathetic.
(2) She is way too sympathetic.
Steve-AR @ 196
Thanx!
Big Mitch @ 191
‘65 to ‘75 were very interesting times. I lived in DC area for 27 years then went Boston for training. I was traveling frequently to DC because of an illness in the family around the time of H2O-gate.
Steve-AR — Where were you when you learned of RMNs resignation?
TeresaPChicago @ 197
You might also want to ask this as TNH … they have an excellent group of attorneys who comment regularly.
Marcy has a new Sara Taylor post too – she is dissecting her testimony.
Big Mith @ 199 – Thank you for responding. But to me it seemed clear from her responses to Senator Whitehouse that her presentations to various agencies went beyond updates regarding administration policy crossing the line to advocate support of specific political figures/candidates in upcoming elections. Whitehouse skillfully led her into an admission or at least an incriminating posture regarding Hatch ct violations.
Once they blow the ececutive priviledge BS out of the water would she not be a prime candidate for further questioning if not outright indictment?
Or am I misreading the Hatch Act
Well, I’m packing it in early tonite! I bid another fond adieu to the Lake! Aloha Oe! *g*
Thanks Suzanne – Marci never rests!?
CTuttle @ 207
‘nite Yo !!!
TeresaPChicago @ 208
Superhuman Beings like Marcy do not waste their time sleeping … *g*
At the time, I was live blogging it in comments on FDL. I remember saying that I thought she was “opening some doors.” Legalize for waiving the priviledge. On further review, as it were, the priviledge is not hers to waive.
Second, you and I have differing recollections of her testimony about briefings to agencies. One of us is right and the other is not. Which one is which, I don’t know.
What I recall is that she said, “first she would thank the employees for their service etc…..
then she would tell them about the policy initiatives that were the president’s priorities.
But I don’t remembe any discussion about supporting particular candidates.
Suzanne @ 205
Wow … Marcy’s great as always …
Steve-AR @ 183 — Damn, I’m batting .000 tonight. I could have sworn I read, just yesterday, that statutory contempt needed to be voted on by both branches, but now I can’t find the cites. In lieu of that, and since IANAL either, I have to concede that you’re most likely correct.
If I find otherwise, I’ll let you know.
Mitch, you triggered a memory. Didn’t she also try wiggling out of answering the question about local candidates and ended up saying something about the local terrain(?) or something similar – admitting that the candidates were talked about?
Big Mitch @ 181
I figured he was your son, Mitch. He is still trying to show dad a thing or two. He will soon realize that old dad was right.
Loo Hoo. @ 215
Mark Twain: When I was 17 I thought my dad was so dumb I couldn’t stand the sight of him. When I was 25 I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in 8 years.
Petrocelli @ 210
As a meditation yoga instructor you should be advising Marcy to rest rest rest!! *g* Think of her back that she threw out with her last unbelievable liveblogging! Helpful yoga postures? I’m thinking the down dog posture to release tension in the shoulders. Just looking out for our emptywheel :)
Since Sara is in this thread…
C-Span replays the hearing in 10 minutes. C-Span 1 @ 3:37 EDT.
Big Mitch @ 200
Only in stills.
If you see her on video, she comes across as an overprivileged, sullen, disrespectful asshole. Kind of like the result of a mutant breeding program between Karl Rove and Paris Hilton.
TeresaPChicago @ 217
I gave her an open invitation for meditation classes some time ago … yoga postures are good
for maintaining physical flexibility but to attain deep rest and rejuvenation, proper meditation techniques are peerless.
Mitch, I believe she ended up conceding that it was important to know the local lay of the land with regard to the candidates and how to help – dang, I wish I could find that…
JGabriel @ 219
I saw her on video and my take was that she ws tring to be cooperative within the bounds of an impossible situation. That is why she was too sympathetic. Personally, I wouldn’t fuck her with someone else’s dick.
BigMitch @ 211
Actually, Whitehouse led her to be specific regarding her advice in support of administration policy to include support of specific candidates. It’s on YOUTUBE. He was carefully leading her into an admission and she walked right into the trap. Watch the segment and see if you agree. If you click on the YouTube of her testimony in an earlier thread you can click on a menu of other clips and there are 2 of she and Whitehouse
Suzanne @ 214
I have to hunt for video clips of the SJC hearing, but if I’ve read the faces of Schumer,
Feingold and Whitehouse correctly, they have her in a rather precarious position.
newtonusr @ 218
Thanks for the heads up, newtonusr !
JGabriel @ 219
I completely agree. She seems very arrogant, disrespectful and flaunting of her fraudulent “right” by executive privilege to not cooperate
CTuttle @ 207
Nighters CTuttle. And anyone else I missed.
g’nite ct (and anyone else i missed)
BigMitch @ 222
Ok. That’s not the impression I got. Mine was that Taylor was taking advantage of the privilege ambiguity to selectively defend herself and the administration while using the privilege as a shield to avoid providing any information that might be revealing or incriminating.
That said, if you had the impression she was doing her best in a difficult situation, then that impression would probably be even more prevalent amongst independents, and ubiquitous amongst Republicans.
And *that* would make it a risky proposition to charge Taylor with contempt.
Still, it’s risky for Taylor too. At least that might give the former prosecutors on SJC enough leverage to persuade her to flip.
Hi y’all, can’t believe some of you are still up!
Yep, Taylor was trying really hard to channel Abu but the signal was fuzzy. So she hid behind her hair and the mike. Not the picture of confidence until she fell back on the head/hair flip and use of atty.
One of those who give the dirty looks and doesn’t take it so well…
JGabriel @ 219
She was very disrespectful to Senator Leahy, and he was pissed. This is the germ in the petri dish that this administration has let loose.
I would often times talk about htose races, and to come speak and tell them what I thought. I would give them a broad overview on what the two parties were doing and what the impact would be on the president and his parties.
I take issue …
These briefings were informative, meant to share, given my unique role and people had an interest.
Would that include the specification or targeting of particular candidates?
Certainly, I would talk about what was going on in the country. I would talk about the 8 or 10 places.
I am sure I mentioned candidates names all the time, I would talk about what was going on, I would talk about what I thought about that.
Grants? My political briefing was to inform people, not how to direct people, based on my opinion.
Suzanne @ 221
I assume that Sara was paid by the RNC and not tax dollars.
JGabriel @ 229
Was her attorney that nervous because his credentials could be muddied by her responses ?
Here is the link to the Whitehouse line of questioning I was referring to. Thanks for the clarifications JGabriel and Mith
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKAArig6qbc
This to me is a good enough defense. But WTFDIK
Found in the US Attorney firings video archive of C-Span:
Seattle University, School of Law Panel on the Role of U.S. Attorneys
McKay, Charleton & Inglesias in a nearly two hour panel at the University where McKay is a visiting professor.
A terrific discussion hosted by Laurie Levenson, and good Q & A.
Recorded 9 May, the link goes straight to the RealPlayer file.
LooHoo, nope, your money and mine.
do-si-do @ 230
I found it humorous … the degree to which she channelled Alvin … that didn’t work well for him either !
And Suzanne and everyone!
BigMitch @ 232 (quoting Sara Taylor)
That could be perjury. It kind of depends on what information Whitehouse had that led him to force that admission from her.
Loo Hoo. @ 231
Yeah, she sure was. Can you imagine what behind-closed-door chatter is about Leahy? It’s gotta spill over even when one is working really hard “cooperating” to keep one’s ass out of a sling. You will distain the fact that this Leahy fellow would have any hold on you whatsoever. How dare he.
Bush’s thousand points of light turned out to be one dim bulb.
GOD … I forgot how big of a PR*CK Specter was/is !!!
(Deleted by author, due to double posting. See 241 for original)
Imagine indicting sara taylor but not harriet meiers. It doesn’t pass the laugh test.
JGabriel @ 241
I apologize if this has been said a couple hundred times today, still catching up…Senator Whitehouse rocks!
JGabriel @ 241
I thought Whitehouse was sublime with Sara, whereas he hammered Alvin mercilessly … it must’ve been a treat to watch him in court.
Petrocelli @ 244
He was rather puke-inducing at this hearing. Leahy saved it with his little note about leading the witness and Specter made a few jokes which made me stop heaving a bit.
He is 100 years old and anyone younger than that is just a sweet young thing led astray. He knows how to hand out tissues.
You know, I wish these congresscritters would stop kidgloving the wimmin. The women congresspeople know just how tough a professional woman has to be and you know that Monica The Goodling and Sara Taylor have to be pretty cold-hearted and committed to work in the offices they did.
Am I being too harsh?
So do people think Sara Taylor was being set up for a possible indictment for violation of the Hatch Act?
JGabriel @ 229
Her comment about taking an oath to the president said it all for me. She is brainwashed. Literally.
do-si-do @ 250
Monica is (and came across as) a compassion-less cold-blooded reptile, he would think nothing of firing a U.S. attorney from a 90,000 a year job, calling him incompetent, ruining his career, and calling it a days work.
do-si-do @ 250
I would never attempt to oppose your point of view … *g*
I thought the SJC did not feel the need to hammer Sara Taylor, and that they got the information they wanted rather easily out of her.
Loo Hoo, yes. that’s it in a nutshell.
Teresa, why do you use the phrase “set up”? There is no rule of law in this admin…
do-si-do @ 250
Loo Hoo. @ 252
Gawd, I must be an incredible softy, though nobody who knows me in person would say so. She is definitely a true believer. And that slip of the tongue revealed it. But Leahy seemed like a bully when, after she apologized for mispeaking, kept coming back to it.
Was just notified by the tech crew that the servers will not be going down tonight.
On that nite, I’m off to watch Moyers. See ya’ll tomorrow night, same bat time, same bat channel.
Petrocelli @ 254
Hi Petrocelli…um, thanks? ;) Now that you mention it, I guess she was answering more questions than any other administrative help thus far?
Suz, drop in here after you see Moyers, just to give us your reaction. Please.
TeresaPChicago @ 251
I think Taylor was being *questioned* with that accusation in mind, but she was being *set up* for perjury — or to take the Fifth, or possibly to misuse the privilege shield when she should have taken the Fifth.
Though that last bit might be iffy; it seems a little too nitpicky to make a case out of it, though not impossible.
tbsa @ 243
Okay, now we need Mary to make a T-shirt with a dim light bulb with a picture of Bush superimposed over it!
that should read.. on that note… If I’m not so tired I’m going to bed right after, I’ll stop by and give my two cents.
do-si-do @ 255
I meant was the SJC setting her up still hopefully thinking they have some vague committment to the rule of law
BigMitch @ 257
Well, I guess I already stated my opinion about ms. taylor. I think she can take it.
I respectfully disagree about leahy being a bully…he HAS to drive that point home whenever he has the opportunity because that’s what’s at stake: Our constitution and rule of law over loyalty to one man’s rule.
Suzanne @ 258
G’nite Suz !
G’nite all !!!
Have a great weekend !!!
JGabriel @ 245
I’m thinking maybe there’s something big on Specter that everyone knows.
He gets with Leahy and goes his way. He gets a call from the WH and goes that way. It really is revolting, and I don’t think he’ll ever be re-elected. When is his term up?
Loo Hoo. @ 262
I was thinking a good t-shirt would be:
Impeach (drawing of table) = Bush
good night Petro and Suz!
I leave it to others to turn out the lights.
zzzzzz…
Suzanne @ 236
so wrong that we pay people to do political work. That’s what I’ve always wondered about Rove. Why are we paying him to ruin the country?
If I were a Dem Senator, and the thought of taking testimony from Sara Taylor crossed my mind, I think I would ask myself, “What’s the best that could happen?” My answer would be that she would pull a Harriet, (though truth to be told, who could have foreseen something so contumacious of congress?) Next, a blanket assertion of the exec priv. (which is hwat I would have expected.) Last, what we saw.
Good night, Suz. Enjoy the show.
JGabriel @ 261
It seems they could follow a few different courses of action but I still fell she made a frank admission re:violationg the Hatch Act.
One more legal question – when she said so many times “I don’t recall” and if evidence comes to light that she was indeed privy to and participated in the USA firings, are those statements of memory lapses considered perjury? Could they ever be considered perjury if a pattern was established in her testimony that she invoked memory lapse to obstruct the investigation?
My comment @273 – sorry I am usually a lurker here and do not know seem to know how to post responses to others comments. My new comment in 273 is imbedded. Sigh
It seems they could follow a few different courses of action but I still fell she made a frank admission re:violationg the Hatch Act.
One more legal question – when she said so many times “I don’t recall” and if evidence comes to light that she was indeed privy to and participated in the USA firings, are those statements of memory lapses considered perjury? Could they ever be considered perjury if a pattern was established in her testimony that she invoked memory lapse to obstruct the investigation?
TeresaPChicago @ 273
If you say you can’t remember, and you obviously can, this is the crime of perjury. Just ask Ike Ferguson or Scooter Libby. This case is complicated by the fact that if she did recall, she could still claim that she had a good faith basis upon which to invoke the Exec. Priv. But still that is perjury. Again, I ask you to imagine indicting her and not Abu Gonzales. Doesn’t pass the laugh test.
Night Petrocelli. You have a fantastic weekend yourself.
(lurking while watching Moyers)
when quoting a comment, be sure to scroll down to the very bottom of the comment you are quoting.
what you are looking for is the < carrot thingie followed by a slash / and then the word blockquote and a reverse carrot thingie.</p>
(dayam, moyers show is good)
make that scroll down in the submit comment box to the very bottom…
I think it might be just you and me Suzanne.
and I’m only here until the sleep meds kick in.
TeresaPChicago @ 274
Just use the scroll bar in the comment section. Scroll all the way down. Don’t worry, I’ll probably forget to do that the next time!
I sure like Fein’s comparrison of Bush’s commutation of Libby’s sentence – which included the same offense that Clinton was impeached but not convicted of.
This is just fascinating to watch this civil and informative discussion. Too bad this is not what the Sunday talking head shows are like. Won’t see this on Timmah or any of the others…
BigMitch @ 276
Thank you for the well considered response Mitch and Suzanne for the blogging response tip. I have a zillion more questions but maybe I should give it a rest. But Suzanne, since you are watching the Moyers program you can sympathize with my (and I’m presuming our collective) desire to have had someone of their ilk and vertebrae question these contemptuous fools with the force of true statesmanship they so eloquently describe
TeresaPChicago@ 273
Well, as BigMitch quoted from Taylor:
Obviously, the she’s trying to set herself up for a defense that she didn’t do political targeting at these meetings.
I’m not sure that’s a valid defense against the Hatch Act if there was political strategizing going on here, but IANAL, and who knows how the Federalist packed courts will rule now.
TeresaPChicago@ 273:
You’d need to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, as Fitzgerald did in the Libby case. It’s not easy. And the Senate would probably have to find, and appoint, a trustworthy independent prosecutor to investigate and prosecute it.
Theresa,
Are you Judy’s sister?
Did you follow the link above re: Ike Ferguson?
TeresaPChicago – your 273 fixed.
Well it’s been a heck-of-a FDL day for me. I got a zed, I participated in the great All-Alaska FDL Meet-up and met fellow commenter Ed*Ward Teller and even made an interesting point or two. Most of all, I learned a lot an spent time with my kind of people. Isn’t it amazing that there is no flaming on this blog?
But all good things must come to an end. Good night.
The Lurking Mod @ 287
Thanks Lurking Mod – Fein is a republican? Is there some nasty thing that he has done and is he trying to repair his karma, kinda like Earl and his list? I have a negative association with his name but can’t place what it is.
Dang, he is telling the Dems how they should be questioning witnesses. Dang.
Suzanne @ 289
Even as a conservative Republlican, Fein testified at Senator Feingold’s censure hearing in favor of censuring Chimpy, and he was a formidable witness.
He may still have some karmic issues remaining.
Just one more thing regarding the Hatch Act violation. I am a government employee and we receive annual ethics training where we are required to review relevant laws, guidelines, etc regarding exactly this type of violation. My position involves oversight and although we receive regular briefings regarding policy issues and priorities of the current administration it would be considered outrageous if we were directed or nudged or counseled to overlook some compliance issues while targeting more politically favored concerns. The law is the law and should be enforced accross the board and no public servant should be pressured otherwise.
Okay I’m off my soapbox for the night. Thanks for listening and responding and I am very proud to be a contributor to this site. Will contribute more when able. All of the postings and comments are so refreshing, it keeps hope alive! Thanks Suzanne
Thanks for commenting tonight, TeresaP. You do know that once ya start, ya just can’t go back to lurking :)
BigMitch @ 286
Sorry I don’t know any Judy, Mitch. Hope she’s a nice gal!
Suzanne @ 292
Very true!! Thanks for all of your good work
TeresaPChicago @ 256
Leahy was letting Sara be Sara and she showed what a big, fat tubby asshole she is.
Sara Taylor is the poster child for Fuckwad’s administration. Whitehouse played her like a fiddle and Leahy, politely, put her in her place. She definitely got her come uppance. It’s possible that some large caliber bullets are being sweated even as we type. I won’t make any bets, though.
Oh my stars… Moyer’s closing was exactly right. Dang.
ok, this time i’m off to bed for good.
BigMitch @ 286
Not at all clear on why you think I would be Judy Millers sister. Did I miss something?
Goodnight Suzanne and thank you again:)) Sweet dreams
this message sent to all members of Congress as they sleep:
IMPEACH NOW. it’s the right thing to doooooooo……………….
fahrender @ 157
Good morning everyone – Hunter S. Thompson must really hate being dead right now.
Now I’m going back up there to find Teddy’s letter to Nancy. Be right back.
TeddySanFran @ 135
Let’s take a look at this missive.
Teddy starts with quoting John Nichols from The Nation. (He and Bruce Fein appeared with Bill Moyers last evening on Bill Moyers Journal: required viewing – Impeachment 101). Anyway, the quote, “Impeachment is not a constitutional crisis; it is the cure for the constitutional crisis,” is designed to remove all anxiety that Nancy might feel she is creating a constitutional crisis.
This statement is her silk scarf transforming itself into her noose. Wake up Nancy, we’re IN a constitutional crisis.
And in case Nancy did not understand the new tightness around her larynx and jugular, Teddy gives her the old one two: “Your position as Speaker, powerful though it may be, does not empower you to suspend portions of the Constitution.”
And so we begin to tell Congress that the game’s up.
I watched Pat Tillman’s mom and brother appear before a congressional committee asking for help uncovering what happened to Pat. If you missed that hearing you MUST see it. This mother and brother were duped by the most duplicitous people in this administration.
They came to their home and allowed this family to believe that Pat was killed in a false heroic manner. Except… except that Pat’s brother was an hour away from the place Pat died.
Something was wrong. And the hearing tells you all you can handle. Strong brave people, those two.
And to add insult to injury, Jessica Lynch is sitting right beside them, waiting to tell her story. You see, even though LIES were told continually about her, she was not allowed to speak. Being in the army, you know.
Here’s the link to the hearing in April. There is another one coming up in August.
The White House is preventing Waxman from getting information for these families. I’m sure you know by not that Mr. Fielding has written another letter.
Executive Privilege: priceless.
Good morning!
Pat Tillman dies and Bush wants to hide behind Executive Privilege? Sure friendly fire is embarrasing but it happens, lying about it and coordinating the lies the Pentagon told the press is a crime and might be a RICO case.
I can’t think of a better test case for the Democrats to use as a test case before the Supreme Court. All those judges have an eye for history and military votes are important to Republicans if we make a stand here we get some credit. Plus his family most of all deserves to know the truth whatever that may be.
I’m watching the Tillman/Lynch hearing http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1242.
I don’t know if I can make it through it again. But here goes.
laptop dyed, been getting my vista up and running
anyway, quite late to this thread but here I go, sure to have been said before, I therefore say it again
some people are more perceptive then other people…when some of us saw him say “that’s fuzzy math” we understood this wasn’t some kind of “bushism”, this was a four year old with no vocabulary
when a man without a lisp cannot learn to say NEW KLEE AR, a mind so feeble it’s doomed to repeat the word from memory which has for some reason recorded it as NEW QUE LAR, some of us realized this is a moron.
when we read the facts and saw the deception leading us to war some of us realized he was plain lying while others actually thought he believed he was doing something good
some of us “got it”, others couldn’t believe such an inept man could ever be president or be supported by their party and they just refused to acknowledge what was brutally apparent to the rest of us
Meant this link.
Wasn’t there word yesterday that the office in the Pentagon, used to keep news in Iraq and Afghanistan “correct”, closed up shop?
Gee, how timely.
Boston, I’m with you on the Tillman testimony which I saw at the time. Made me cry with shame for what our government has done to this family. These are very brave people.
Do we, at last, have an issue that cuts across political divisions? Crime and coverup. What are they hiding? Why use executive privilege?
If Vitter resigns, does anyone believe that Blanco will do as the Republicans want and appoint someone THEY recommend? Another wingnut?
Even if (and I really do not know the rules for LA) she has the power to appoint anyone she wants, she will do their bidding because of promises being made to her right now.
Let’s see, we (the republicans) will promise not do run mean ads against her. Anyone believing the republicans anymore seriously needs a neurological exam.
I think Congress should find Sara Taylor and Harriet Miers in Contempt of Congress and have them arrested if the Republicans try to filibuster this then we should threaten to defund the Justice Dept until Gonzo does his job about everything!
We have bent over backwards giving these guys time to get their stories straight and cooperate. If the Republicans keep throwing sand in the gears of justice then we defund the Justice Dept and tell the FBI to arrest them. After all if we can’t get the Justice Dept to do its job then we take them out of the equation. The Center cannot hold because its corrupt and should be replaced.
Executive Privilege hides everthing even how poor Pat Tillman died. I want Sara Taylor and Harriet Miers to explain in front of the cameras why they think Executive Privilege and the “Oath to the President Cough” its an Oath to Uphold the Consitituion from all enemies Foreign and DOMESTIC. Is more important than a mother finding out EVERYTHING about how her son died! Also I want them to answer if they think torturing people without a trial and spying on Americans is part of the Consitituion. All ENEMIES to the Consitituion foreign and DOMESTIC even if he is PRESIDENT!
egregious @ 311
I’m listening to Kevin Tillman tell how Pat’s fictitious death was used to keep attention from Abu Ghraib. He then goes on to say how his family, led by his mother, relentlessly pursued reality.
Kevin Tillman has made the case that this cannot possibly be fog of war.
He’s calling them out: this is fraud. “Who instigated these lies and benefited from them?”
Way offtopic, but this is the newest thread at the moment…
A little old lady just called in to CSPAN’s Washington Journal with the following (paraphrased):
“When I was a little girl in 1951 and TV was just getting started, I used to wonder why there were so many boring news shows on. I always wished they would play more Howdy Doody. Well, I realized something just the other day: I finally got my wish. It’s nothing but Howdy Doody 24 hours a day now.”
Ma’am, you rock.
GrandmaJ @ 312
Hi, GrandmaJ. Blanco is not running again. I don’t know if this will make a difference, given the power of Republicans in the state, but she might appoint someone different…just to get even with those jerks for everything they tried to pin on her post-Katrina. I would enjoy the spectacle.
Good morning, pups. Today in the NYT Stanley Fish writes on the recent Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action and Bob Herbert has a piece on school children being murdered in Chicago — 34 since school started last year.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
Coffee and tea are ready, and I’m doing nice, soft omelets that I can eat with my tender jaw. I’m sort of doing a Jay Leno imitation today — not really my best look! Have a good day.
TeddySanFran @ 135
thanx for the template teddy, with your permission I used the format liberally;
Boston1775 says:
“Good morning everyone – Hunter S. Thompson must really hate being dead right now.”
i couldn’t have said it better myself!
Marion, I hope your recovery is fast and painless with no complication.
Best.
Lindy
egregious @ 311
They’re hiding the fact that White House Political Advisor Karl Rove was directly in charge of the entire storyline and strategy to turn a friendly fire incident into a cause for patriotic empathy for a fallen hero, in order to bolster both Bush’s standing in the polls and to pump up the recruiting numbers to send more would-be “heroes” to their deaths – all to grease the wheels of Fascism.
John McCain is almost done as a Presidential Contender I wonder if he as the former Chairman of the Indian Affairs committe has something he has hidden on Senator Conyers of Texas and the Jack Abramoff Indian gambling c*sino scandal?
Threating to release information and take out another Republican Senator before the September Surge vote might get the loyal Bushies to open up their wallets.
Either McCain learns to put the screw to his supposed friends (look at how much his prowar, pro Bush stand has helped him with fundraising) or he can give up now.
I’m hopeing he gets angry at all the Bushies who promised him he would be rewarded for supporting Bush and decides to screw them. I want McCain to stick around a while longer so we can keep kicking him. Although getting rid of Senator Conyers would be equally good as well.
fahrender @ 320
fahrender, Great, great sentence.
When is Gonzo going to start handing out indictments on the Jack Abramoff Scandal? Jack is cooperating so when are we going to see some action?
After watching Bill Moyers last night with John Nichols and Bruce Fein discussing the need for impeach it became painfully obvious that there are no true leaders in Congress. Merely posers. Leahy, Waxman, Conyers, Pelosi, Reid et al are far too timid and thinking only of the next election rather than doing what they are Constitutionaly mandated to do. The U.S. slowly continues it’s downward spiral because it has becoming ever smaller as it is representated by even smaller people. Not one Democrat with perhaps the exception of Dennis Kuccinich is willing to take on this criminal administration.
Lindy, thanks for your kind words. The funny thing is this looks worse and hurts less (today, at least) than the upper jaw did, and the dentist said he did more work than on the upper. Go figure…
i hope Big Mitch doesn’t mind me quoting his part of this conversation last night:
For those who miss analogies on the SATs
John Dean: Richard Nixon :: Harriet Meiers:George W.
the difference is that Nixon wasn’t corrupt enough to conceive of trying to stop Dean from testifying.
“”If it weren’t for the commutation of Libby’s sentence, we would not be sitting at this table talking about impeachment right now.”
———–
NIXON WASN’T CORRUPT ENOUGH (!!!!!!!)
those four words shows you just. how. bizarre. reality. has. become.
Tillman’s mom: The silver star leaves a paper trail. Who decided to give Pat a silver star?
things come undone @ 323
The name of the good (term used very loosely) senator from Texas is John Cornyn. I know. I have the misfortune of having him be my senator.
Boston:
Flattery will get you anywhere ……..
________________
I watched the clips on the Pat Tillman hearing last night.
It’s an example of the Quintessential Bush Administration MO.
Shameful beyond description.
Anyone who was skeptical about the treason committed against Valery Plame need only catch a whiff of this.
It’s the same odor, only more foul.
John McCain is almost done as a Presidential Candidate it must be noted that yes while he was the loudest in his support of the war and his support of Bush and we certainly targeted him. It was not lefty bloggers who did him in, it was Republicans who stopped giving him money not us.
They thought that supporting the war as publicly as he did made him unelectable. They saw the polls that showed that 70% of Americans think the war is a bad idea. They knew he had no crossover appeal because of that. Sure the rest of the GOP candidates still support the war but their not shouting it from the rooftops anymore.
I wonder if Hilary will take a look at McCain and realize her leaving troops in Iraq idea is not a centerist postion. She can’t expect to do better than McCain with a prowar postion from Democratic Primary voters.
No War and Healthcare for everyone are the center postion now. She risks being called a McCain on the war and a tool of the healthcare industry if she keeps this up. How long can she stand on the wrong side of the two biggest issues that Americans care the most about in the election? Just who is polling for her and giving her advice?
greenwarrior @ 330
Sorry
Beyond the Ninth Ward on Kos is spot on…and provides an action that I think can be helpful.
things come undone @ 323
mccain might have become “pathological”
let me explain;
he believes himself to be a man of integrity, the only way a man like that can cave the way he caved is to convince himself he has not caved
I believe he has decieved himself into believing what he says
SP (at work) @ 316
SP -
When I think of all the kool-aid callers I’ve suffered through on Wash Journo, you caught one that passed the punch bowl; sorry I missed it! That story needs to make the rounds of the blogs.
The President’s speechwriter wants information on Pat Tillman.
P4 (eyes only) memo goes back from a General to Head of Central Command: It is highly possible that Cpl. Tillman was killed by friendly fire. You can talk about the silver star but if news about friendly fire leaks out, it might be embarrassing.
Did this information reach the President.
It seems that the P4 memo was in response to the President’s question.
———————
Line of questioning during the hearing.
Kevin Tillman asks if the Congressmen would help them find out about this.
Now the mom nails Rumsfeld. She is sure that he had the real information about Pat’s death.
Rumsfeld had sent a letter to Pat because he was such a high profile soldier. Rumsfeld HAD to know.
—————–
Rumsfeld knew how Pat died while his family was given the government’s self-serving lies and a silver star with a fictitious write up.
perris @ 335
I believe you have a good theory now based on your theory what is your best guess about what he will do next?
I think John will believe that he has been betrayed and get angry. But if he is in denial will he just keep staying the course as his campaign keeps dropping in the polls and fundraising? Does he expect the American people to come around and see things his way?
Will reality ever intrude or is he like Bush a believer until and even after the Titanic/Iraq war goes down? I’m not arguing I just want to know what he does next because he can still effect politics alot.
Fresh thread, up and running for anyone who wants one.
You have to see the showdown between Issa and Kevin Tillman.
When Tillman doesn’t answer Issa’s question the way he likes, Issa reminds Kevin that he’s on the Judiciary Committee.
Issa: Who are “they” and what is your evidence?
Kevin Tillman: We don’t know who they are, sir. We just have the evidence leading us here, sir.
Poor Peggy. She just assumed. She never knew about the sock in the cod-piece.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 339
No thanks. I’d rather dump all day on the execrable Noonan.
Mr. Mica has decided to explain how confusing things get so, you know, mistakes happened. Sickening.
A man, Mr. Hayes, from Fort Bragg says that he has known many of the people involved. He says that they are not perfect but that they are good soldiers.
He explains that the eye witnesses to the death of a Blue Angel, their conflicting stories, show how confusion might have occurred regarding Tillman and Lynch.
Very, very late to the party here – but whoa, Mr. TRex, you’ve outdone yourself!
sorry about the barfing…
perris @ 335
a well known pathology ………..
Shays: anyone who gives out false information should lose their job, at the LEAST.
—————-
General Kensinger was a source of relief to Pat’s mom. She then says she was betrayed and made a fool of.
—————-
Kevin Tillman: calls attention to the narrative for the Silver Star. Fraud: to falsify a witness statement in the Silver Star award. The whole thing is riddled with nonsense.
———————
Mrs. Tillman says that the CID investigation is riddled with falsifications. They accepted the CID. In every way they are dodging us. They make the public believe they did a great job by pointing the finger at four generals. That’s a smokescreen.
I needed this post. Thanks!
This isn’t about Pat.
This is about what they did to Pat.
This is about what they did to a nation.
Pat died for this country.
You’re diminishing their true heroism.
We shouldn’t be allowed to have smokescreens thrown in our face.
Pat Tillman’s mom
———————————————-
makes you think of sand thrown in the eyes, doesn’t it?
Mr. Honda, a representative of the Tillman family:
Thank you for not giving up.
There’s a phrase that says you bring truth to power?
I think now you’ll give power to truth.
————————-
America, we have entered the time before the Perfect Storm.
Loo Hoo. @ 184
Speaker Pelosi has a problem in that she can’t really push too forcibly on her own for impeachment, She has to be perceived to be doing the will of the people (The people are finally getting there) and of Congress. Bush-Cheney will be impeached together. George doesn’t get a say in who replaces him. The speaker is next in line. It becomes a perception problem for her.
ALWAYS warn us when a link goes somewhere like that last one, now I need to call the Geek Squad out to clean up my hard-drive again.
Just after that Giulliani page loaded up, my computer prompted me with a “showertime?” command query… it is so intuitive…
JEP @ 353
Beware of the Geek Squad:
Oh God, a kid is testifying. He worked under Pat Tillman. The kid knew immediately that Pat was killed by friendly fire. And he told people that. Until he was too taken up with his own wounds.
Within 72 hours, nine people, including two generals, were informed that Pat was killed by friendly fire.
The kid was ordered NOT to tell Kevin. The kid would get into trouble if he told Kevin the truth.
Oh my, the blood that the kid thought was his own was Pat’s.
Kensinger, Abizaid and Brown, three generals, got the P4 memo informing them that Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire. This was before the highly publicized memorial service.
Rumsfeld said he never saw the memo. (He’s used this one before.)
Waxman would like to know why three generals would not send this important information to Secretary Rumsfeld. Finds this incredible.
Another kid was set up to read the fake silver star report at the memorial service for Pat. This kid was a friend of Kevin, Pat’s brother.
He did not find out that he’d been used to spread this false story until Kevin called him and told him how Pat really died.
Apparently, a general said that the Tillmans would never be satisfied because they were not Christian.
————–
This is agony.
You will find the complete hearing of more than four hours here.
One thing that amazed me from day 1 with Bush is the number of people who otherwise were smart, moral, aware and, I thought, good judges of character who were unable to see what a tool this guy obviously was.
I had to keep trying. My mantra was, “Look, whatever reasons you have for disliking Clinton may be perfectly valid, but you can’t keep pretending that these guys are one bit better.”
It appears the spell is breaking. Ding dong, the witch may be dying.
“Americans can’t fire the president…”
That ghost wandering the streets of San Clemente says different. :o)
And what’s going to be neat about THIS pink slip, is that it’s going to be delivered by REPUBLICANS. :o) :o) :o)
Ponchartrain Pete; (cool moniker…)
“It appears the spell may be breaking…”
Sure does. :o) Today, Maliki walked to the workbench and gave the ‘nad-vise handle a hell of a turn, when he said that the government forces were ready to take over security anytime the coalition wanted to leave.
He also said they still needed weapons (cough, cough…) and training, but the damage was done. If you think it was a zinger on bush, think of how it’s going to play in England.
“WTF, Gordon!!! Can we now get our troops on the Graydog for home, INSTANTER?”
WAAAAAY too many holes showing up in the dike, and not enough chubby little rightwing fingers. :o)
When Maliki went public with that, he must have had an evil grin on his face a foot wide.
“So, Mr. Bush, you want to cut deals with the Sunnis and start arming the people who have been most diligent at killing your troops (and us!) because you think you can stop the Shiite shit that’s about to hit the fan? Here; hold this flaming bag, while I go down to the parliament and talk some majority-vote shit to get you the fuck out of Dodge. We’re at the point where we’ll take our chances with “dealing” with them, ourselves.
BTW, the Kurdish Peshmerga that you’ve been using on us AND the Sunnis, are gonna be needed at home, to look across the border at those 140K Turks, who are getting antsy about the U.S. weapons that are showing up in the PKK’s hands.
Call me soon, and let’s do lunch in a Baghdad sidewalk cafe.”
perris @ 335
I kind of give him credit for believing in immigration reform and the war. He knows it is costing him the presidency or at least a shot at it. He won’t change. That sounds like principle to me. And he was principled as a POW. None of which changes the fact that he is wrong on war and immigration reform. And everything else that republicans stand for.
Drugs; The shrub’s on drugs. That’s why he’s so unnaturally cheery. I don’t think he’s in touch with reality. Not that THAT is a valid defense.
I completely agree with teddy and the others above that Congress has a Constitutional duty to impeach now. After watching the Impeachment 101 program on Bill Moyers, there is no doubt we are in a constitutional crisis now and the cure is to remove Bush, Cheney and Gonzalez by impeachment.
I say Fred Fielding’s letters invoking “executive privilege” for Miers and Taylor make make him and President Bush accessories to contempt of Congress if not contempt of Congress itself. Contempt of Congress is a crime or misdemeanor, a “high crime or misdemeanor”, if you will, and impeachable. Let the wheels begin next week.
Do not call him Ishmael. Call him Ahab.
Once the scales fall from your eyes, Peggy, every word he says makes you loathe him more.
Boy is that the truth. I’ve wanted to smack that smirk off his face since he first ran for President.
Welcome, wingnuts. There’s room for everyone.
excellent post
Big Mitch @ 99
That’s perhaps the most concise explanation of why it was wrong to impeach Clinton, but it’s right to impeach and convict Bush.
things come undone @ 323
things come undone @ 323
Do you mean Senator Cornyn?