From the HJC:
Rep. Watts Cont’d: Miers not showing up for hearing today is the last straw. During the impeachment proceedings, decided to apply the same standards to Dems and Republicans alike, because we have a Constitutional responsibility to do so. The President has abused his presumptive privilege for executive discussions — his privilege does not extend nearly as far as he says it extends. Wat goes on to discuss all of the disrepect of the rule of law issues of the Bush Administration. I cannot accept the standards that prevailed the last six years of oversight — we have a responsibility to provide oversight, and the President is sticking his thumb in the eye of Congress.
Cannon now saying that the remarks are unparliamentary. Watt yields back balance of time — American public knows that we are dealing with an imperial President who feels that he is above the law. Cannon again says that these are unparliamentary words and that Watt has gone beyond the rules of decorum for the House — personal criticism is out of order.
Sanchez says she rules that the words were harsh but not unparliamentary, and that Cannon’s objections will be noted for the record. Cannon wants to appeal ruling of chair, recorded vote requested even though Cannon knows he doesn’t have the votes. Motion to overrule chair is tabled by vote. Cannon now entering more docs into the record.
Quorum being present, motion to sustain chair’s ruling on Miers. Voice vote — ayes have it. Cannon requests recorded vote. 7 ayes, 5 nays. Majority votes for the chair’s motion. Record will remain open for 5 days.
Now moving on to subpoena for RNC chair and docs requested. RNC has refused to turn over docs, because they claim to be covered by executive privilege, too, even though they are wholly outside the WH.
Shorter Cannon: we shouldn’t bother the RNC with this sort of petty meanness — if they want to obstruct our investigations, we should just let them.
Motion for subpoena to RNC: ayes have it for the subpoena issuance — resolution is adopted.
Subcommittee is adjourned.
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zed!
fitz1
What would happen to me ( a 55 year old soccer mom) if I did not show up after receiving a subpoena from congress?
Would the Feds be knocking at my door right now? Would I all ready be behind bars?
Last straw?!?
oooo, I like the sound of that
Good ol Firewall Feeney.
He can always be counted on to look like a dolt
Watt – eloquent
GO DEMS!!! SHOW THEM HOW IT’S DONE FOR ONCE.
yes, I’m shouting.
Watts is getting SERIOUSLY wound up. Is he a preacher?
Cannon now interrupting and calling Watt unparlimentary and unkind.
It’s kind of funny to see Junior stretching out his presser as long as the HJC is in session.
Takes lies under oath about a bj for the Republicans to take congressional oversight seriously!
This guy is almost as angry as I am. Wow
so of course, Cannon interrupts
Since when is the truth “not parlimentary?”
Good for Watts.
Call it like it is
Don’t we have Constitutional rule as well.
Where does Cannon stand on that
Why are these to be considered unparlimentary?
“These are unparlimentary words”
so Cannon more upset by words than Meirs defiance of the constitution.
Cannon you are not taking your congressional oversight responsibilities seriously!
Sanchez: The member’s words although harsh, were not unparlamentary.
Cannon: appeal the ruling
Ayes have it (Cannon shouts NO!)
Recorded vote requested and approved
Folks, please stay on topic and omit the usual gossip and one-liners while Christy is working hard for us liveblogging. Thanks.
Cannon thinks that by shouting No really loud it will outway the majority.
and so a recorded vote is needed because Cannon insists that Watt’s words be struck
Cannon is going to make an issue of Watt’s words not being parlimentary. Another grandstanding stall tactic to take Dems off their game.
Linda is standing up for Watts. Good for her.
This is the most spine I’ve seen from them in a long time.
More stonewalling, smoke, mirrors and delay tactics from the Republicans.
beth meacham @ 9
Heh. I’m wondering if it’s working the other way ’round as well. We could be here all day …
Telling that Cannon more upset by words than Meirs defiance of their subpoena
Is there a time limit on this particular procedure?
And is there a limit to how many times someone can speak, or is it up to Sanchez?
dakine01 @ 8
___________________________________
Of course, it was Cannon who badgered and
harangued Joe Wilson yesterday. Cannon’s
beyond contempt.
BG
_______________________
Party line vote it appears
Motion to overrule Chair loses
Cannon now asking to enter some letters
Now a roll call vote of the original rulings
Cannon is doing Roves bidding to perfection. Stall, muddy the waters protect the Leader.
JF @ 13
Good one..
But, but, but . . . these Democrat congress people are so darn’d mean to poor little Harriet, and they just don’t understand.
Harriet knows that preznit Bush is the bestest executive evah, and it’s a privilege to be his friend — and if that’s good enough for Harriet, it ought to be good enough for those mean ol’ Democrats, too.
Rep. Cohen is obviously enjoying this.
GAWD! When I remember the kinds of things which were routinely said about Clinton, these people have no shame. None.
The truth is parlimentary — Bush lied!
BenGoshi @ 27
Cannon should suck it up.
It dawned on me, after reading all of today’s papers and blogs, that Bush’s behavior is just a cry for help. He’s practically BEGGING for the dems to put him out of his misery.
Is this JC Watts the republican from OK?
Wait…
That’s it?
WTF?
J. Thomason @ 36
NO! That Watts is out of congress I believe.
Another damn subpoena!!! Now for the RNC? What happened to contempt of Congress? Is this just more bark with no bite?
Now that I think about I beleive you are correct Hollow. Just curious. Thanks.
I can’t watch it but from what I am seeing here, sounds like the Dems have finally had enough.
Bring on the contempt charge.
J. Thomason @ 36
Mel Watt from N. Carolina….
JC Watts makes me want to spit.
Bluetoe @ 39
No, this one will have teeth — in any court. It is beyond ludicrous to make the case that executive privilege to his party. Just think how they would howl if a Dem President made the same claim.
They should’ve issued this subpoena months ago.
Woodhall Hollow @ 38
Watts, Democrat, is from N. Carolina. J.C. Watts, former Republican Rep, from Oklahoma.
J. Thomason @ 36
Mel Watt, AL or GA I think
J. Thomason @ 36
You’ve got to be joking, right?
Well we see the current state of OU football program. So I should have seen the obvious.
I’m listening to bush on the TeeVee and Sanchez on the computer. This is an iconic and telling moment of this administration. bush is still breathing but that’s about all.
Who’s responsible for that absolutely brilliant cartoon? Perfect!
Not nothing. The subcommittee found Miers in contempt of congress. Now they’ll decide what to do about it.
Junior tried to end the presser, and then went back for more questions. Now he’s done, since the yelling over Harriet is over.
RevDeb @ 45
Georgia.
Where the heck is the contempt citation!?!?!?!?!
So no contempt citation. What do they do now?
I am sitting on the edge of my seet, perhaps foolishly, waiting for a republican to show some outrage.
Woodhall Hollow @ 33
____________
As in when Dan Burton called President Clinton
a “scumbag” in 1998. Where was Cannon then?
BG
___________
EPU’d:
Mad Dogs @ 191
Agree, props to the cartoon! It made me laugh this morning.
Excuse me Mel Watt is from NC.
memo to Conyers and Pelosi: get Harriet’s butt in jail, NOW!
Ooooh, Scarborough givin’ Bush the smackdown for trying to nuance his way out of reality.
Cannon and such henchmen in the Congress may be the last outlaws standing…
so what exactly happened wrt to Harriet? I saw the part where they plan to issue a subpoena to get the RNC emails, but not clear what they decided re: Harriet.
I will have to look up the transcript later today but the part where Bush says everyone wants to be loved, and he wants to be loved, but he wants to be able to look into the mirror was absolutely pathetic.
Oh, and Bush’s presser now up on CSPAN 3.
Christy -
Has this Supreme Court decision – McGrain v. Daugherty – arising from the Teapot Dome scandal been mentioned in this morning’s HJC subcommittee hearing? I mention it because of this excerpt from a Wikipedia article about the Teapot Dome Scandal:
Hugh @ 61
I just shut it down. Nothing to see there. Move on.
They voted to enforce the subpoena — they’ve given Miers and/or the WH 5 days to respond and, depending on the response, they will either haul someone’s ass into court or issue a contempt citation. They are following the procedure as required to issue a contempt citation if and when it is necessary — there are parliamentary rules in the House that have to be followed for something like this, as I understand it. But they got the vote they needed to move forward toward a contempt citation – and Miers has five days to sow cause why it shouldn’t be issued.
The grasshoppers that fly onto my lawn tractor daring me to cut their feed lot have more spine that the feckless dems. I am sorry, but after having watched, without comment, the last two days worth of senate and congressional hearings regarding the USA firings, why in the hell hasn’t a contempt charge already been issued? The dems should have been prepared to issue such citations at the conclusion of both yesterday’s and today’s hearings. How can we ever expect a more progressive government as the dems stay at the table with their napkins on their laps while the rethugs are lobbing molotav cocktails under the table? Had Enough.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 64
YESSSSSSSSSSS.
Game on.
I got popcorn stuck in my tooth.
I’d like to suggest sending each member of this committee a empty toilet roll — you know the little card board thingy that you throw away after the tissue is all gone.
Just send an empty roll, but use a marker to write something sweet on it first like, “Thanks GWB” or “Who’s Your Daddy, Luv Karl”.
Because these folks are letting WH public servants walk all over OUR Constitution, I believe that’s all any of them are worth, just an empty Effing Toilet Roll.
RevDeb @ 7
You must be feeling better today.
Did this help? *g*
Hugh @ 61
Oh Christ – now we’re on….terror….terror ….. 9/11…. no goddamned pollsters telling me what to do……terror…..more terror….
Christy Hardin Smith @ 64
Thanks for the clarification.
RevDeb @ 66
The lights went on in one of the rooms in “The city on the hill”
Christy @ 64
… and i also infer from all the groundwork that Sanchez built in that the committee has voted to refuse ALL of the excuses that have been made for today’s absence. so we will not be going around in circles when the wh re-asserts the same bullshit.
Thanks for everything, Christy!
So in the five days , we need to make our opinion known. They think we are not watching, they count on it.
The internets are so fast, the courts so slow
Shouldn’t Rep Cannon be censured, or stricken (I almost wrote “stricken dead”) for his own unparliamentary behavior in interrupting during someone else’s allotted time? Any parliamentary experts?
Watts rocks! Can’t imagine his relatively measured remarks haven’t been outdone in past Congresses.
Naraka @ 72
Ditto. Got to drive in to work. Read you all later :-)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 64
The committee issued a subpoena to appear. Ms. Miers refused to appear (for whatever reasons). What further response from the WH could possibly mitigate the simple fact that she refused to appear and thus was in contempt of the subpoena?
If there’s no citation issued in six days from now I say to hell with. We’ve lost the battle.
All right that’s it! I can’t stand this man babbling on about …… terror…….
Christy Hardin Smith @ 64
Following these Congressional “procedures” should insure that by 2010 the last of the subpoenas will be answered one way or the other.
Morning Mika now leading a
deconstructiondebunking of the Bush presser, courtesy Scarborough and now Miklezewski [sp?]. Andrea Mitchell trying to counter, soft-peddling. [Who, knew, anotherMansonBush girl. /snark]Love the cartoon above, but Bush should be in the cheerleader suit, too. He’s got the precedent.
Mel Watts was fabulous. I hope C&L will capture his statement, which the Repubs tried to have taked down. He was on fire. All Americans should have heard Cohen and Watts.
The first time I heard the term “benchmarks” was out of Kerry’s mouth long before the 2004 election. Bush uses “benchmarks” all of the time now.
Is the response time 5 days or 5 business days, seeing as Congress doesn’t meet on weekends normally?
The auburn goddess once again does the work for us. I don’t use paypal, but a check is in the mail for all your hard work. Thousand thanks, Christy.
I remember the days when Cohen was passing out campaign buttons down at Huey’s on Madison Ave.
Just read CHS #64 which has, thankfully, brought my red-headed temp down (know about that red-headed gene too:-)
I think it’s time for some bp reduction on my part: cycling followed by a cold one, whatcha think?
Yeah, now what? How about dispatching the U.S. Marshals (Capitol Police?) with some cuffs?
[and since when does the President have authority over what private citizens say, and to whom they say it?]
This is all getting ridiculous.
If they just ignore the rules and regs and push forward without regard to evidence, then they are no better than the shit that Dan Burton tried to pull during the Clinton years. Honestly, hasn’t the Bush Administration done enough damage? Why on earth would you want the Dems to be just as disrespectful to the rule of law and the Constitution?
Do not become the thing you despise.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 64
A lacy little Freudian slip showing? ;-)
Marie Roget @ 75
So we are at a clear fork. Either she shows cause w/in 5 days, or appears, or is in contempt – period? What can we do to make sure the latter trail is followed should she not do either of the former?
merciless at 83 — Thanks so much — we really appreciate the support.
I thought so – From Rawstory:
A Fox host then cited a new report that “al Qaeda … is running from Iraq, apparently to Pakistan” and asked “did this report come out on purpose so that we will have the right … to go after Pakistan now?”
“Kristol responded, “I think the president’s going to have to take military action there over the next few weeks or months. … Bush has to disrupt that sanctuary.”
“I think, frankly, we won’t even tell Musharraf,” Kirstol continued. “We’ll do what we have to do in Western Pakistan and Musharraf can say, ‘Hey, they didn’t tell me.’”
Christy Hardin Smith @ 88
Hear Hear!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 87
Thanks, this point needed to be made.
Go get’em Watts! He’s my NC congressman.
What, pray tell, does Bush proclaim to be the “Statute Of Limitations” on gagging former White House employees from testifying within the systems of laws upon which this country is founded?
A month?
A year?
Forever?
What is the timeframe?
Al-Qaida has regained strength, US warns …
A new threat assessment from U.S. counterterrorism analysts says that al-Qaida has used its safe haven along the Afghan-Pakistan border to restore its operating capabilities to a level unseen since the months before Sept. 11, 2001.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..ror_threat
Bush failures have reached epidemic proportions. “You see that glow flashing in the corner of your eye? That’s your career dissipation light. It just went into high gear.”
Christy Hardin Smith @ 87
amen!
Deaths on a “horrific scale”. What do you call close to a million Iraqi people PB?
another million during the sanctions?
Where is the hard evidence to back up these endlessly repeated claims about an “alleged” nuclear weapons program? Where?
Where is the verifiable proof that Iran is sending the IED’s? Where? Pace said that there is no verifiable evidence.
WHERE? WHERE? WHERE?
The process is what it is, and now that we have the power to allow it to unfold, a lot of the damage done to our justice system will be exposed.
If we didn’t win the last election we might have crossed a bridge that we may have never been able to get back from.
Helen Helen Helen back in a front seat!
ccmask @ 67
Drink some beer.
By the way. Did you hear the news that McCains’ Florida co-chair was arrested for soliciting sex in a mens restroom?
-GSD
Helen Thomas is magnificent.
“Mr. President you started this war and you can stop this war today.”
And the president says that Sadaam started it.
Kristol advocating war against Pakistan.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0712.html
ellwort @ 74
I just about fell outta my chair when Cannon, of all people, called for order during his last rant. What a nit!
Interesting how fast the 2nd vote came, and only needed voice vote. The Reps finally caved in a hurry, when they gave up.
2nd vote: was that to issue subpoenas for RNC e-mails? Do the wait for Miers’ response, & that for a response from RNC re: surrendering e-mails, have the same 5-day timeline?
He is doing Glen’s thesis. Good vs. Evil
Cheerleader pic is hilarious. Harriet & her hero would also fit Craig & Arianna, Sat nite live cheerleaders.
Defeat them there so we don’t have to face them here………. He actually said it again.
eCAHNomics @ 103
Bloody Bill Kristol. Who would have known that Goebbels would come back in a neo-con costume.
-GSD
W in presser went on & on as though he actually knew something about what was going on in Iraq. Must have spent hours & hours memorizing the stuff.
President Bush you just said that Iraq has a Nuclear weapons program. Where is your verifiable evidence to back up your repeated claims? Mr. El Baradei has said that there is no verifiable evidence to back up these claims.
Where is the verifiable evidence to back up the claims being repeated by Senator Lieberman and the other “cakewalk in Iraq” zealots that the IED’s are from Iran. General Pace has said that there is no hard evidence to back up these claims.
a precipitous withdrawal will embolden Al Quaeda, he says.
He also says – with a straight face – that he has an obligation to listen to his General (the one he hasn’t fired yet).
You know Bush says that he went into Iraq only after he went to the UN where he got a resolution that said disarm or face serious consequences. Bush is making something up here. The UN never and I repeat never sanctioned the use of force in the Second Gulf War. The October 2002 AUMF had to cite UN resolutions from the First Gulf War that sanctioned force precisely because there was no similar resolution for the Second.
Kristol makes my skin crawl. His creepy, disjointed smile & expressions reveal his true soul, imo.
eCAHNomics @ 104
suit up Kristol..suit up Kagan…suit up Liebermann and suit up your children
Millineryman @ 98
I’d say we’re not yet safely across that bridge.
I believe this action appropriate and indicates all has been done to give Miers the chance to comply with this invitation…..
These guys are acting prudently….
Very, very good…
You don’t remember the pieces of mortar shell they tied to pass off?
They got debunked in a New York second.
Bush “Americans have war fatigue” Jesus Mary and Joseph what do you call what the Iraqi people are suffering from?
The Bush administration’s “compassionate conservatism”? FRIGHTENING
War fatigue.
Deep concern.
Part of that concern is whether or not we can win.
He cannot look a mother or father of a soldier in the eye if he did not believe we could succeed.
What’s happening on the ground – before the surge – was not successful and so he gave David troops a couple of weeks ago.
It’s taken awhile to get them into their missions.
fyi – by request, i’ve edited the audio files from yesterday’s hearings and am uploading them now… it will take about an hour (slow upload speeds).
Oooh. Now W telling us how troops move around the world. Dja spose he just larned that last night?
Excellent work Christy. Bravo! I admire your patience and clear point of view.
I also appreciate the Southerner’s point of view. Bushco’s contempt for congress and the law is exasperatingly sickening.
ironranger @ 113
all i see is an empty shell…
Oh my. So what will happen next with congress?
Did Bush really say, ‘as the commander of the world’s greatest military?’
snowbird42 @ 74
No, not in five days — DO IT NOW — call your Reps (especially if they are on this committee) and express your displeasure over Miers failure to appear.
(You may want to bring up impeaching AGAG, too.)
selise @ 120
Thankyou!
Al Quaeda signature on bombs.
As the Commander and Chief in the military, by respecting the command structure, I am going to wait for David’s report to make another decision if need be.
ironranger @ 114
what soul?
ironranger @ 115
Ah, but did you look into his eyes and see his soul??
Will one of those reporters ask Where where where is the verifiable evidence to back up your endlessly repeated claims about Iran’s “alleged” nuclear weapons program and that the IED’s are from Iran.
WHERE WHERE WHERE IS THE HARD EVIDENCE? Hopefully not from Douglas Feiths office or from Micheal Ledeens friends.
Anyone counting how many times W said that he’s Commander in Chief of the greatest military ever? Good thing he’s behind a podium so no one can see his HO.
“Truly a shameful man”
Now, to whom could Josh Marshall be referring?
President Bush. Do you plan to pre-emptively strike Iran based on unsubstantiated claims?
Bush says he will wait until he hears from General Petraeus, the general that Bush handpicked because he would do what Bush told him to. Sounds like a legitimate process, Bush-style.
Could someone please answer a question for me regarding the hearings we just watched?
Was that 2nd vote they took – to issue subpoenas for RNC e-mails? Do the wait for Miers’ response, & that for a response from RNC re: surrendering e-mails, have the same 5-day timeline?
thanks.
He is not going to tell the military how to do its job.
Congress has all the right in the world to fund. That is their job.
They cannot decide troop strength.
eCAHNomics @ 105
Who knew that Bill Kristol was now a member of al Qaeda???
Damn, wasn’t Bush supposed to protect us from morons who wanted to declare war on our good friends like Pakistan???
I saw the end of the Bush press conference when he started doing his hyperactive monkey impersonation. Afterward, the reporters talked very seriously about Iraq and the president without ever mentioning how ridiculous he is.
What the hell?
And no mention, none, of Miers no-show today. Is this America or Bizarroland?
GSD @ 108
Why should anyone be surprised. If you look at the underpinnings of Nazism with the philosophies and psychology of the Republican Party there really isn’t that different. Take out the virulent anti-Semitism of the Nazis and they are almost interchangeable. Wars of aggression for protection of the Homeland, check. Blurring of the lines between Party and State, check. Unquestioned loyalty to Leader, check. Politicalization of legal and judicial branches, check. Cronyism and corruption, check.
ironranger @ 113
Yeah…good analysis. That’s it. Disjointed – he’s arrogant.
Let’s keep in mind that the nation is now being run by Dick Cheney and the script is being written by Karl Rove and pushed by Ed Gillespie.
-GSD
Adie @ 138
Adie – the RNC subpoenas will have their own specific compliance date on them.
Boston1775 @ 101
Isn’t that an amazing piece of logic! I beat my wife because she makes me beat her. She brought it on herself.
8 of 18 benchmarks partially met. Same marks dubya got in college!
Helen @ 143
thanks! figured they might, but things were flying by pretty fast by then. boy, when pugs cave, they fall in a heap, don’t they?!
I’m a little puzzled by something here:
If it’s illegal to conduct official government business on computers other than those officially provided by the government for that specific purpose, isn’t Bush’s claim of executive privilege over emails on the RNC servers ADMITTANCE of a crime?
Why hasn’t Congress launched a criminal investigation into violation of the Presidential Records Act yet? Or is that step further down the line procedure-wise?
Can’t help but hope they’re going to subpoena everyone and everything Bush says they can’t have, line up the refusals, and use this to head towards special prosecutors and impeachment.
My sense is that there is no “John Dean” in this administration. Perhaps they know that there was some serious lying, law breaking which took place inside the white house and since anyone who knows is an accessory to this, they all are in stonewalling mode and will give nothing.
Bush’s lawyers/advisers have essentially asserted that he is above the law and beyond the reach of congress, they have stacked the courts if one of these cases gets on the docket, Bush will commute, pardon, delay, or use a false claim or executive privilege or other statements like… can’t comment because this is under investigation… to thwart justice.
The republican crooks are protecting him because they all have made out like bandits with this administration… all of them get very rich.. Look at Tauzin or Hastart as obvious examples of cronyism.
The corruption is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
The fourth estate has failed us because they are in the profit and money game and are making out very well… And don’t forget all these “interlocking directorships” of corporate boards.
This administration has been a feeding frenzy at the trough of the people’s treasures… and they have even taken out a huge credit card to stick it to the workers in the future… long after they are gone from within the beltway.
These people, this administration, the neocons and the Republican in general are essentially thieves, crooks, and lying frauds.
They have ruined this country and made a mockery of our system of justice, our constitution, science, and destroyed not only our standing in the world, but killed millions in Iraq and left it covered in depleted uranium… a toxic land.
It is long past time for a REAL REGIME CHANGE and revolution in this country. This velvet glove treatment is a bad joke and the repubs are laughing all the way to the bank.
We’ve been had. big time.
Reporter asked him why we should not conclude that he is stubborn and not in touch with reality.
yada yada
You think you are being realistic?
President jokes and thanks him for the follow up. (Nothing’s changed in the new room – No one laughs)
Anyone watching the prez on CSpan 3?
Wordsmith @ 144
He’s a neo-con chickenhawk. The military, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan are not filled with living breathing human beings. It’s just statistics, and numbers to be used to achieve HIS goals, whatever they may be in his evil little lizard brain.
US shot or killed 429 Iraqi people last year
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0712.html
Arca @ 146
And, like most of my undergrad students, I’m sure he expected minimally a “B” just for showing up.
Bush “…..Al Quaida will have a safe haven in Iraq if we leave…”
Why do they need a safe haven in Iraq since they have a safe haven on the Afghan-Pakistan border due to Bush’s arrogance in sending the troops to destablize Iraq and ignore the real war in Afghanistan?
“A new threat assessment from U.S. counterterrorism analysts says that al-Qaida has used its safe haven along the Afghan-Pakistan border to restore its operating capabilities to a level unseen since the months before Sept. 11, 2001.
A counterterrorism official familiar with a five-page summary of the document — titled “Al-Qaida better positioned to strike the West” — called it a stark appraisal. The analysis will be part of a broader meeting at the White House on Thursday about an upcoming National Intelligence Estimate.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..ror_threat
Maybe Bush should read the morning papers and counterterrorism reports before making an ass of himself on teevee.
TheOtherWA @ 141
actually it is dnalorrazib
Wordsmith @ 143
Kristol is an armchair psychopath.
carolyn urban @ 150
i tried. HONEST. i. just. can’t.
i’ll read about it later… ;->
Al Queda was not in Iraq until you pre-emptively invaded Iraq…. Prez
Kathleen @ 120
Try “crackpot conservatism”
dnalorrazib?
Bluetoe @ 142
Fear and false-pride based nationalism aka fascism, check. Stoke
anti semiteanti gay hatred, check. Exploiting the current legal system for party take over and eventual holocaust, check.The ongoing obstruction (increasing fear) may be a good thing if it makes the Dems commit themselves to restore the rule of law. They have to start saying that there will be indictments for those who have broken the law. I am beginning to see the anger that might make that happen.
I should have said Kristol’s face reveals he has no soul. A black hole.
If we just attack Iran and Pakistan and Syria an North Korea things will get better.
-Bill Kristhole
eCAHNomics @ 162
Check it out in a mirror…
listening to president bush now on c-span3.
i’m not sure i can stand much more…. why-oh-why did our dems in the senate roll over yesterday for an insane foreign policiy?
Al Quaeda in Iraq has sworn allegiance to Osama Bin Laden.
That is the answer to the reporters question for EVIDENCE as to how Iraq is related to our safety in America – which he just lectured American people about (over there so not over here implication)
nomolos @ 156
Exactly.
Kathleen @ 119
The cure is get out there and shop. That’s what Condi does. She leads by example.
Maybe I missed it, but did Ms. Miers get a walk?
eCAHNomics @ 162
*whispers* That’s bizzaroland backwards
nomolos @ 156
I bet the mods love you!
dakine01 @ 166
thx.
GSD @ 165
You forgot Lichtenstein.
McGrain v. Daugherty also confirmed congress’s right to seize the person in contempt them selves and compell testamony w/o resort to the Justice department & the courts. I’ve been suprised how little it is mentioned.
“The breadth of a jurisdictional committee’s investigative authority may be seen in the two seminal Supreme Court decisions emanating from the Teapot Dome inquiries of the mid- 1920’s. As part of its investigation, the Senate select committee issued a subpoena for the testimony of Mally S. Daugherty, the brother of the Attorney General. After Daugherty failed to respond to the subpoena, the Senate sent its Deputy Sergeant at Arms to take him into custody and bring him before the Senate. Daugherty petitioned in federal court for a writ of habeas corpus arguing that the Senate in its investigation had exceeded its constitutional powers. The case ultimately reached the Supreme Court, where, in a landmark decision, McGrain v. Daugherty,8 the Court upheld the Senate’s authority to investigate these charges concerning the Department:
‘[T]he subject to be investigated was the administration of the
Department of Justice – whether its functions were being properly discharged or were being neglected or misdirected, and particularly whether the Attorney General and his assistants were performing or neglecting their duties in respect of the institution and prosecution of proceedings to punish crimes and enforce appropriate remedies against
the wrongdoers – specific instances of alleged neglect being recited. Plainly the subject was one on which legislation could be had and would be materially aided by the information which the investigation was calculated to elicit. This becomes manifest when it is reflected that the functions of the Department of Justice, the powers and duties of the
Attorney General and the duties of his assistants, are all subject to congressional legislation, and that the department is maintained and its activities are carried on under such appropriations as in the judgment of Congress are needed from year to year.9″
The Court thus underlined that the Department of Justice, like all other executive
departments and agencies, is a creature of the Congress and subject to its plenary legislative
and oversight authority.
http://grassley.senate.gov/rel…..820061.pdf
So far the MSM has once again allowed the P to get away with repeating unsubstantiated claims about Iran’s “alleged” nuclear weapons program. Not one person has questioned him abtut this. Or about his claims about the IED’s being from Iran.
They have allowed once again for his Iran Plan to move forward. Deja Vu. How did these comments just slip by again.
Because the “cakewalk in Iraq” zealots have been repeating them so often over the last 4 years that it has been completely accepted.
Deja Vu
okay. i gotta ask.
Does anyone else think it sounds as if chimpy picked up one of his old speeches from several years ago? Doesn’t he have people who guard against that? Or is this some weird experiment by rover to see how long it takes us to notice.
Thank goddess for Helen!
Asked about Libby, lots of hemming hawing uhhhhs but ahhhhs and now we are gonna move on, in otherwords no comment
And now to Scooter Libby -
Perhaps PERHAPS someone in the administration disclosed the name……………..
He wonders what would have happened if that someone had come forward. (I’m honestly not making this up – the President just said that)
Hugh @ 176
From what I hear, Canada may be on the short list if they don’t stop claiming rights to OUR Arctic.
-GSD
Wendell is good!
TexB @ 174
Oops, sorry mods
Back to “Saddam made me do it.” Why doesn’t any reporter retort that Saddam complied with everything that was asked of him? Oh fugetabutit.
KestrelBrighteyes @ 149
They are using the spaghetti defense here, as the Bushistas and RNC members have so often done in the past; throw anything at the wall to see what sticks, and if it sticks, use it.
They are trying to claim executive privilege and promote the idea that the claim is absolute — but if the communications left the White House and were used on political resources, the communications are fair game and are potential evidence of Hatch Act violations as well as violations of Presidential Records Act.
And they may also provide evidence of breach of security, violating SF-312’s that each White House member would have signed when employed.
KestrelBrighteyes @ 171
goodgawd. i can’t believe how many non-lisdexic people there are in here! you poor people. *g*
GSD @ 182
GWB dissed canada in yesterday’s speech about the economy.
Again, he says he is going to rely on the Commander to decide troop strength.
(He just forgot to do that before he went into Iraq.)
GSD @ 166
That about covers it for Bill “yellow bellied” Kristol!
RockPaperScizzors @ 179
WASHINGTON (AP) – President Bush on Thursday acknowledged publicly for the first time that someone in his administration likely leaked the name of a CIA operative, although he also said he hopes the controversy over his decision to spare prison for a former White House aide has “run its course.”
“And now we’re going to move on,” Bush said in a White House news conference…
___________
Simple, really. His life M.O. Make a mess, slither past accountability, move on.
As long as it keeps working, ya daince wit’ da one whut brung ya.
What happenned is that their was an election and then we replaced that elected Iraqi leader.
kindness = wealth @ 162
Anti-Semitism is alive and well with the % group. Mostly expressed in “dog whistle”; New York Liberal, Hollywood values. Mel Gibson isn’t an abberation.
Remember how Gore making campaign calls from his Veep office was a high crime in the minds of the Mighty Wurlitzer? Sara Taylor’s testimony that everyone in the White House was issued a second set of hardware to conduct political operations routinely during their work day seems far, far worse. And yet none of our journamalists seems to think it’s an issue at all.
Reconciliation did not take sufficient hold to stop the violence. This is rather like a surgeon filling in under ‘complications’: Patient died.
Hugh @ 174
And Poland.
Sixty Something @ 95
Go get’em Watts! He’s my NC congressman.
Darn, missed the fireworks. Got a call from a reporter re my son’s situation with the Natl Guard recruiter. I’ll have to catch it on replay, I guess.
Kathleen @ 192
Elections are no fun unless you can rig them just ask the ever suffering Palestinians
Gawd, Somewhere in Texas an amber alert has been issued because a village has lost it’s idiot. Alert has been rescinded. Village idiot found on cspan
Great. Now I can’t get Kristol’s smile out of my head. I swear he gets super animated & almost drools when he talks about attacking this country or that, doesn’t matter which. And that gaspy giggle. I wouldn’t be surprised if he tortured small critters as a kid.
My God the press are such lap dogs to let him get away with what he says in response to questions. Troop strength at start of war. Asked Tommy Franks if he needed more troops. No one follows with Shinseki saying it would require 200,00-300,000 troops.
They did not say that Israel should be wiped off the map. What horseshit!
http://www.globalresearch.ca/i…..cleId=4527
Sixty Something @ 94
I commend and congratulate you!
Hoo boy am I jealous. He’s just great!
Oh, okay, Mr. Prez. Sure thing. Anything you say is fine.
Bush admits administration leaked CIA name
President hopes to move past furor over Libby sentence commutation
WASHINGTON – President Bush on Thursday acknowledged publicly for the first time that someone in his administration likely leaked the name of a CIA operative, although he also said he hopes the controversy over his decision to spare prison for a former White House aide has “run its course.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19728346/
ironranger @ 199
The whole time that Juan Williams is speaking on Fox Kristol sits next to him smirking. He is a complete and utter chicken shit. I want to see him and his children in unifrom fighting the wars that he is so committed to.
I would put money on that this guy could be diagnosed a psychopath.
Maybe team bush is hiding info on what really happened on 9/11. Er, the new pearl harbor.
He just did a line of logic about the need for conditions of chaos for Al Quaeda to succeed (not that we haven’t created any or anything) and then talks about preventing conditions for Al Quaeda to succeed.
ie if we leave, I guess, that will be the exact kind of chaos that Al Quaeda needs to be emboldened??????
Reporter asks about the gut thing.
His gut and head tells him that when he gets a report on a serious threat, he will tell us. His head also tells him that Al Quaeda is a threat.
Arca @ 147
Does it bother anyone else that Iraq is being set up as the fall-guy for BushCo’s immoral war (which is where this all started) and now is being positioned to take the rap for its failure? Just askin’.
Kathleen @ 177
the problem, i think, is that the dems are going along with these claims. makes it much harder for media folks to challenge both Rs and Ds.
yesterday we had the senate dems roll on claims that iran is responsible for deaths of our troops in iraq.
a few weeks ago we had the house dems roll on claims that iran has a nuclear weapons program and that their president is guilty of inciting genocide.
a few weeks ago we had presidental candidate obama state (in a presidential debate) that every serious person knows that iran has a nuclear weapons program.
it’s past time for us to hold our D policial leaders accountable – and demand that they hold the president accountable… at least to the truth.
Not that I’m indicative of much, but I am firmly in the Impeachment camp now.
Although I havent voiced my opinion here, I have been very opposed to any notion of impeachment. I have tsk tsked all the talk and analysis regarding impeachment as a distraction, and unconstructive.
As things have been revealed, the mechanisms of obfuscation have intensified, and the violations to the rule of law have become more brazen, I have come to the realization that it may be our only chance to regain some sense of right and wrong here. I hate coming to this realization – I have always had an unshakable faith that the law would ulimately protect us from these types of abuses – but I now believe that the evidence and actions before us leave no other alternative.
Naraka @ 194
No need to invade Poland. They just let U.S. stick it to ‘em no matter what. Torture chambers? No problem. Missle defense (missle magnets?). No problem. BOHICA.
selise @ 97
And keep in mind that the laws are the only thing protecting us at this point.ironranger @ 114
You’d be more disgusted if you saw the whole thing. He’s fat-assed and pigeon-toed, like so many AEI chickenhawks.
“We have helped people realize the blessing of liberty” by pre-emptively invading their country based on false intelligence and created an enviroment where a genocide can take place.
Kathleen @ 205
Kristol meth is toxic
Freedom is a universal value, not just for Americans or Methodists. (again, it’s real)
Kathleen @ 200
Hey. If regime change is good enuf for Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, it should be good enuf for Israel.
QuakerGirl @ 156
I’m stealing that! An armchair psychopath! Christ – the man should start a blog and have a readymade name.
Fresh thread up and running for everyone.
Christy upstairs with Jane’s CNN video
kathleen@204:
I’d bet on psychopath also. His vibes or aura, whatever you want to call it, are extremely disturbing to me. My stomach actually churns when I see him.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 203
There is a piece up at Media Matters on coverage of the Libby case. The three networks had a total of 9 stories on the Bush commutation. Only one sought a Democrat’s view. The same networks ran 80 stories on the Marc Rich pardon.
http://mediamatters.org/column…..f=h_column
Urban Pirate @ 210
Thanks Urban Pirate. I agree wholeheartedly. If anyone is still on the fence regarding impeachment, I encourage them to read Kagro X’s writings on the subject. They can be found at The Next Hurrah and Daily Kos.
Urban Pirate @ 208
I think you have plenty of company. Some of us appear to blurt it out. I assure you none of us here takes it lightly. It’s horrible to contemplate that we have come to this point, that removal from office seems the only sane alternative. I personally am stunned we could have come to this. After the Nixon experience, I had thought, never again. Go figure.
selise @ 208
I heard Obama say that. I also watched Obama roll over during the Condi Rice and John BOlton nomination hearings. Kerry, Kennedy and a few others hit hard…Obama rolled over. I am really not sure what people are so excited about with Obama!
WHEN WILL THE MSM DO THEIR FING JOBS AND ASK THE HARD QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE IRAN CLAIMS. HAVE THEY LEARNED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
NOT ONE QUESTION ABOUT THESE UNSBUBSTANTAITED CLAIMS ABOUT IRAN. THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR FOUR YEARS.
I am not surprised by the Democrats rolling over to the Israeli lobby a large percentage of their funding comes from them.
Senator Kent Conrad (D for dumbo) is on the Senate floor (cspan) drumming up an amendment to double the reward for Usama’s capture and some other nafarious plans to continue to attack Al Q for all eternity..
Kent Conrad works for Bill Kristol.
jayt at 197 says “Darn, missed the fireworks. Got a call from a reporter re my son’s situation with the Natl Guard recruiter. I’ll have to catch it on replay, I guess.”
hope things are going ok with that………
selise, Kathleen at #225:
I’ve been thinking of this since yesterday. The more unanimously craven the Dems are on this, the less I worry. How do I explain, for example, Jim Webb’s vote? That The Lobby “got to him”?
I think The Lobby has a monopoly on discourse, but not on real power. I interpret yesterday’s vote as a form of discourse, not the exercise of power. Yes, it’s ugly, but insignificant.
Where is impeachment? The guy stood there and lied about the current Al Qaida report; his comments conflict with the written coverage. He is preparing to send more troops, we can bet. And he is still talking about success: Has he ever said what that may be?
Still no questions about the repeated and unsubstantiated claims about Iran!
The “cakewalk in Iraq” zealots have said it so often the last four years that the press just lets these comments slide…helping the cakefolk to build their case.
Deja Vu
I think many of us are tone-deaf to the Iran talk. The prospect of bombing one (or 2) more country when we are completely bogged down, never mind no moral right of any kind, is so outlandish it is almost can’t be taken seriously. At our peril, obviously.
The Judiciary Committee in the House and the Senate have the authority to invoke INHERENT CONTEMPT against any witness that is in violation of Contempt of Congress. This procedure places the Sargeant-at-Arms of the House or Senate in authority to immediately arrest any witness in Contempt of Congress, whereas, the witness is arrested, brought immediately in front of Congress, tired, and then punished. Inherent Contempt places the authority upon the Congress to take such action, whereas, CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS charges places the authority onto the Department of Justice (Headed by unAttorney General Gonzalez—who we know will do nothing). So, call the members of the House Judiciary and DEMAND that Inherent Contempt be invoked against Sarah Taylor (who yesterday stated that the President told her not to answer questions–she is a civilian now, not a government employee) and Harriet Myers who did not show up this morning (after getting a subpoena) before the Committee. Peace!
Love how he likes to talk about “emboldening the enemy” and then starts off about people blowing themselves up.
People who blow themselves up for a cause they feel is sacred enough to die for are not going to be emboldened by our leaving, but by our staying.
brendan @ 227
i just don’t know how to square that with what we had in the run up to the war on iraq. rhetoric became discourse, discourse became war. the dems rolled, the media rolled… and the bombs fell.
too much deja-vu for me to be reasured.
p.s. i don’t think it’s primarily the “lobby”. i think the propaganda is working – dems are actually convinced that iran is genocidal and has a nuclear weapons program. i had a person in senator kennedy’s office tell me this morning that if iran were to get a nuke – he is 100% sure that they would give it to terrorists like hezbollah to use.
when i spoke with my rep (jim mcgovern) last week about h.con.r.21, he didn’t even know that there was any controversy about the translation. he had accepted it as true.
and kennedy and mcgovern are two of the better ones…
barbara @ 208
It has bothered me for some time. We blew the place to pieces and now are blaming Humpty-Dumpty because he can’t pick up all of his own pieces himself.
Very.Very.Sad. Especially morally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress
This is the link to the definition of Inherent Contempt which has been used in the past by Congress in which the U.S. Supreme Court Ruled that it is legal and constitutional for the Congress to invoke and use such authority.
Hugh @ 114
Tired old strawmen from Bush.
“Saddam was ordered to disarm”: Disarm himself of what? The WMD’s that did not exist?
“Saddam was ordered to disclose”: Disclose what? That which was not hidden, and that which the UN inspectors were searching for unsuccessfully when they were expelled by Bush?
The guy’s a liar, and he a repeat offender to boot. Now he’s just confirming for us.
Why didn’t someone call him on the Saddamm started it lie? Bush said he had the choice to disarm or disclose – Saddamm didn’t have anything of substance to disarm, and Bush threw out the inspectors as Saddamm was trying to disclose……
*xyz, Hi. Open invite. If you’re ever out east, send me an email – love to get together.
Adie, I think that there has really been no penalty for the excesses of the past generation, and they just keep getting more audacious. I hope that the will exists in our Representatives to hold them accountable and really make the punishment excessive enough to act as some sort of future deterrent.
j-m @ 231
YES!
[damnit, grumble grumble]
eCAHNomics @ 216
Should be good enough for us, too, then.
Impeach, and bring the troops home!
…ha ha the Dems said ’subpoena’.
But back in our real ‘Democratic’ world the Washington Post reports:
‘Little appetite’ for any ‘action’?? Just more useless words?
He’s waiting for David, an honest man, a straight shooter, an innovative thinker.
Reporter asks: How hard is it for you to conduct a war without popular support?
He understands why people are tired of the war and our concern, he says, is can we win it? So when we think about withdrawing, we ask what will happen. So then they think, how can we win? How can we succeed? (This is what he thinks Americans are thinking.)
(Mr. President, we cannot win this war. Your former fired Generals and your father told you that. That is what Americans are thinking, if you’re interested.)
If a poll was conducted, it would show that “they” are concerned. (That’s us, the American people he’s talking about – we are simply “concerned”. Not furious, not disgusted, not ready to impeach. “concerned” is what a poll about us would say.)
This violence has affected ‘em.
Mike Hayden and he have discussed just getting out might seem simple but there will be long term security conditions for the United States. His major job is to secure the US. (Could someone please ask him for evidence of those long term security conditions which prevent him from getting us out????)
I repeat to ya, the military does not want the Commander and Chief to make decisions based on popularity, nor do their families. (Have you considered reality, Mr. President?)
The Iraquis know full well that American government and American people expect them to work together. That’s what the benchmarks are for.
A poll will not determine the outcome.
Everybody wants to be loved and when it’s all said and done, I’ll be able to say that I made decisions based on principle and not popularity.
We’re workin to make sure to keep the pressure on Al Quaeda. They’re dangerous. Ultimately the way to defeat these radicals and extremists is to offer another way of life.
They’re dangerous. They can convince a youngster to blow himself up. So we have to offer an alternative.
(Did he mention Al Quaeda in Iraq enough? Did he tell us about Al Quaeda, which has sworn allegiance to Osama Bin Laden, in Iraq enough??)
Note to press: If you allow him to conflate the war in Iraq and Al Quaeda AGAIN, well, let us find your sponsors. We’re not buying it.
selise @ 233
I think part of it is that they don’t get stories in their inboxes that contradict what’s on TV and in the newspapers they read – some of them are really that gullible, but I suspect most of them are insulated and underinformed on this. It doesn’t excuse them; their staff should be keeping them informed, too, and they have field offices that can report stuff. (Not to mention us DFHs telling them what’s out here in the Real World!)
I’m still mad at them from yesterday, though, and I think we do need to do a thorough cleaning out; every one of them needs a challenge in the primary, and they need to be asked if they think it’s a good idea to vote on stuff without reading or discussing it first. Then they need to be asked about why they vote in support of an administration that has already been caught in lies on multiple occasions – why trust and support liars?
P J Evans @ 243
i think congress members live in a bubble too – maybe not as bad as the POTUS, but still pretty bad. we’ve got to find a way to help educate them.
Call the Seargent at Arms and throw the stupid cow in the slammer for contempt. We gotta start with someone…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 64
sweet. thanks Redd.
Has anyone seen video? Is there video of todays hearing?
stogoe @ 245
Your language sucks.
casual observer @ 247
Yes, & it was a worthy view. Dems did themselves proud. Pugs were kinda whiney & red-faced, heh.
It was live on C-Span 3. Keep an eye on CSpan schedule. They probably will re-play video on Csp-1 or Csp-2 at a later time.
Adie @ 249
oh, and another thing, C-Span even shows you Harriet’s empty chair several times. very moving footage. *g*
bhatten @ 228
Success to the Neocons means pacifying the country and keeping U.S. bases there forever. It’s the same idea as Caesar’s conquests, or the subjugation of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union.
Throughout most of human history, “pacifying” a city, state or tribe has meant cutting off heads indiscriminately until the remaining residents are too stunned, frightened or discouraged to resist.
That is essentially what the Bush regime was initially trying to do. That was the meaning of “shock and awe.” Unfortunately for them, that cannot be accomplished without overwhelming numbers and extreme barbarity. It requires complete disregard for the value of life and property. In other words, they have to be willing to kill and burn everything in sight.
They actually did that in Fallujah, but with today’s weapons, it makes a horrible mess. When done with swords, it was not necessary to destroy buildings, unless that happened to be desirable to the conquerors. With white phosphorus and huge bombs, everything is wiped out. Thus the logic behind the neutron bomb. It was supposed to kill everything alive, but leave the buildings intact. That is their dream, because the Hiroshima method would potentially make the really important plunder much more difficult to extract from the ground.
let me get this straight: anyone who’s ever had any kind of contact or communication with the White House can cite executive privilege?
Valley Girl: my favorite concern troll today
[RBG Note; Let’s be very careful about the terms we use to describe other commenters. Valley Girl is one of the original moderators and a valued contributor at the Lake.]
I wrote a angry letter to the White House before, can I claim executive privilege?
I didn’t expect much from the Bu$h this morning, he delivered even less – he sure does use the words “hard work” a lot for someone who has never, ever, had to actually do any! But then he really supports war, any war, as long as he don’t have to personally…..you know….participate!