Federal Circuit Court Judge Marcia Cooke has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that regardless of what transpires at the trial of Jose Padilla, nothing will deter her from ensuring that this trial moves forward, ends and a verdict is handed down. Nothing.
The jurors even seem to have a sense of the inevitability in the air, and if so, they took the opportunity to revel in it just prior to the 4th of July, as each of them entered the courtroom wearing red, white and blue. A prank of sorts, though with this being a real criminal trial taking place in a real US court room, with very real life sentences hanging over the heads of Padilla and his two alleged co-conspirators – Adham Hassoun and Kifah Jayyousi – should a guilty verdict be rendered, this type of collusion begs the question of whether three months of evidence concerning “violent jihad” has altered the jury’s perception of what they are there to do.
Unfortunately, this wasn’t the first instance of this jury possibly conspiring or at the very best, failing to weigh evidence independently. A week before the red, white and blue incident, every juror except for one, wore black on a particular day. And while we’re talking about the most serious possible charges short of those warranting the death penalty, this type of thing may go on throughout the rest of the trial. All the while Judge Cooke seems to think nothing of it.
Still, lawyers across the blogworld are all over the map on this. Peter Latham at the Law Blog of the Wall Street Journal asked “What’s going on here?” to which his lawyer readers responded quite confusingly, “I think it’s cool..” “This is great news for the defense, as they can argue for a mistrial if they lose,” “ it’s bad news for the defense because this (especially the 4th of July colors) could signal a loss in the first place. Most defendants prefer acquittals, not ‘guilty verdicts accompanied by strong arguments on appeal’.” This was my favorite:
I think if my life or future was hanging in the balance, I’d find it more than a little troubling that the jury was trying so hard to call attention to itself, rather than paying attention to my case. The trial is not about them — it’s about Padilla and whether or not he committed serious offenses against the United States. One wonders if the jurors share that view or if they believe this is their opportunity to grab at the spotlight.
But hey, I’m not a lawyer. What the hell do I know?
Jeralyn Merritt of TalkLeft is a Denver-based criminal defense attorney well known to Firedoglake readers. She has had experience with terrorism trials and juries when she served as one of Oklahoma City terrorists bomber Timothy McVeigh’s legal counsels. She said it was “outrageous.” It wasn’t the color coordination as much as the patriotic theme. “Too case-related for comfort to me.” Besides, she added “I think U..S. District Judge Richard Matsch would have sent the jury home to change. In my experience, every time a jury is one that yuks it up together, there’s a conviction. Group think.” She also noted in another in Judge Matsch’ courtroom when “he dismissed a juror in the middle who showed up in shorts.
Anne W. Reed, who has the Deliberations blog, is a trial consultant in Milwaukee. After reviewing what she called “a short, incomplete history of dress-alike juries,” she said, there wasn’t much on point but there might be one day soon. Her advise to defense attorneys was to smile, wonder, make a motion for mistrial . Te law is sparse, so go for it. These decisions are often about the Ask [what have you got to lose.] and judges don’t always get it right.”
Finally Scott H. Greenfield never heard of color-coordinated jurors, whose appearance, he said would, “freak me out.”
Greenfield offers this conclusion, which, if not unbiased, at least displays self-knowledge, a quality Judge Cooke seems to find in short supply.
Something would definitely be wrong, especially in New York where no one agrees with anyone else about anything. But I would get over it, because there would be no other choice. But you can bet I would find some argument for mistrial based on juror misconduct. Unless they were all wearing T shirts that read, “Free the Chicago 7.” I could live with that.
Related posts:
- Mikva Spins Fitzgerald’s Spinning Lincoln Right Back
- Fort Hood Shooter’s Trial May Shed Light on NSA/CIA Domestic Spying
- With His Children Still Missing, KSM’s Torture Continues
- Isikoff Pops the Question: Newsweek Reporter asks Holder About Torture
- Only the Insurance Companies Want a Level Playing Field





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Zed
huh
zed with an f?
Right On, Lew!!!
neither!
Kathryn in MA @ 2
Neither! Sorry! 8-)
French Bulldog, how adorable!!!
Lew!
And if I remember correctly, didn’t most of the Libby jury color coordinate on I believe Valentine’s Day?
On topic as well, what kind of impact do you think Michael Chertoff’s “gut feelings/gas pains” about an attack this summer will play on this trial? It has been all over the news, even more so than the Ft Dix wonder bombers.
Would Padilla’s legal team be able/willing to appeal? This whole thing reeks of rigging.
dakine01 @ 9
all but one juror. led to much consternation and reading of tea leaves.
Bingo!
While I was reading this, Dan Abrams is speculating about why Homeland Security Czar Michael Chernoff had a feeling in his gut about another al Q*eda attack.
Reason one: he is anticipating a reaction to convictions.
Reason two: he is trying to frighten people (e.g. jurors) to create an atmosphere in which conviction is inevitable.
Sorry I haven’t followed it closely enough to know: Is the jury sequestered? (Not likely if they can coordinate attire as they have.)
My FWIW humble opinion: this type of jury manipulation is at least as strong a point on appeal as the fact that the jury celebrated our national holiday.
punaise @ 10
I thought my memory was still working reasonably correctly.
I’m of the camp that the jury dressing up as one, would be highly disconcerting for the Defense! I think it is an ominous sign!
Kathryn in MA @ 5
Kathryn in MA,
are you logged in now?
maybe you have to log yourself back in, just a suggestion.
excuse me, Hi Lew!
Elliott – question below…
Based on my nearly 30 years as a criminal defense attorney I can tell you for sure:
There’s no figuring out of juries. The jury dressing up can mean anything. They are patriotic. They are ready for a picnic. They are in a good mood (this usually favors the defendant.) NOBODY KNOWS.
How does Padilla preserve this point on appeal? Does his attorney have to move for a mistrial?
Larry Flynt who outed Vinner says he has at least thirty solid leads. Further, “It’s payback now, and payback is a bitch. I don’t like people in Washington legislating morality for me….”
Oooh, sorry Lew, OT-but Flynt saying he has 30 solid leads he’s following up on!!!
Not to belittle legitimate concerns about the jury having prejudged things, one way or another, but this kind of reminds me of the old “gay hanky code.”
Let’s see . . . black means this, and red/white/blue means that . . .
Having served on a jury for a lengthy trial (five weeks!), jurors on a long trial sometimes just do harmless little things because they know they’re going to be together until the trial is done. Sure, it’s a conspiracy, but it could easily have more to do with general group bonding than as a comment on the state of the trial.
Sometimes a shirt is only a shirt.
“We have serious investigations of 2 U.S. Senators and we are investigating 25 Congressman, and other high administration figures,” said Larry Flynt. “Vinner made Clinton look like Mary Poppins.”
Big Mitch @ 16
Interesting. Is that because they feel less pressure when they are going to set someone free as opposed to feeling responsible and perhaps conflicted for a guilty verdict? I guess that is a D’oh..dumb question, but what the hell do I know.
Lew, are you gonna join the discussion? It’s your thread!!!
This sounds a bit like a kangaroo court situation. And the head kangaroo is the judge.
Maybe they feel the terrrists are guilty in their guts?
-GSD
Peterr — one time in Fairbanks Alaska the judge made the defendant and the attorneys stay in the Courthouse all night until the jury quit deliberating. Around 9:00 pm they sent out for some Colonel Saunders.
The defendant came running to me and said, “They sent out for chicken!! What does that mean?”
I said, “I was only absent one day in Law School, but it was the day they taught signs and omens.”
LS @ 22
I think this dressing alike sounds like 4th graders and is highly disrespectful both to the court and the serious issues involved.
If you are hoping for a hung jury (which if I were Padilla, I would not be) you might interpret the jury acting together as a bad sign. But beyond that, NOBODY knows.
Twain @ 27
But…but…I thought that is what we are dealing with…4th graders….Actually, I agree totally, it is that syndrome of a disconnect that what you do results in people DYING.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 24
Speaking of kangaroo courts and OT, but did anyone see the story on CNN.com this morning where a judge in Nebraska blocked a woman from using the words “rape” and “vicitm” in her testimony of what was done to her? Claimed they were too “prejudicial.”
Twain — I agree. Does that mean they think the charges are a joke? Or that going through this charade of a trial is a joke that is merely postponing the hanging?
Lew is usually pronto on responding to comments on his FDL posts. If he does not join us, this would be highly unusual. Maybe he is having toobz troubles.
Big Mitch @ 31
I think nitwits who would do this probably think both those things are true.
dakine01 @ 30
Yes. I saw that.
They’ve been reading too much Grisham.
dakine01 @ 30
The word victim assumes a crime was committed. It is prejudicial. I would always object, and point out that my client was the victim of a false accusation. At a minimum, the words “alleged victim” should be substituted. As to “rape” many states have employed substitute language which is more neutral such as sexual assault. This is not for the purpose of protecting defendants, but rather to keep the focus on the fact that rape is a crime of violence, rather than a sexual act.
GSD @ 25
Chertoff?
Have you all noticed that so much of what we discuss here are issues that result in the death of fellow human beings??? That is how serious the problems and misdirection of our society have become. Truly, we are in some kind of death culture M.O.
This has to stop.
My first thought was they were mocking the court, but that could be because of the restrictions that Lew and others suffer, it’s nearly impossible to figure out what’s going on in that court.
Another possibility is that someone on the jury is one of those pesky team-spirit social organizer types. You go out on break and eat meals with them; you’re not allowed to talk about the case, so you have to find something to talk about.
There was in article in, I believe, NYT on Monday about this. I knew Lew would be doing his article on it. Bizarre, to say the least.
Big Mitch @ 36
The way the news story was reported, there was no contingency for saying “alleged victim’ or “sexual assault.” It was just that the two words were banned period. And the alleged victim would be held in contempt if she used them.
OT and I mean really OT
Typhoon Man-Yi has developed a nice eye. It is a moderate typhoon and is likely to track north and hit Japan in a few days.
http://www.goes.noaa.gov/FULLDISK/MTIR.JPG
Big Mitch @ 17
How does Padilla preserve this point on appeal? Does his attorney have to move for a mistrial?
I, for one, can’t think of any other way to preserve it. If lew were here, I’d be more interested in knowing whether counsel made a motion for mistrial with regard to the introduction into evidence of the Al Qaeda tape, with a “limiting instruction” that the jury should disregard the tape as to Padilla because its application in evidentiary value was only as to the other two defendants. On that point, of course, a regular objection would suffice for preserving the appeal, but if I was on that case for Padilla, I’d have been screaming mistrial at the top of my lungs.
You may be right that it is one of the instances where, in Dickens memorable phrase, “the law is an ass.”
But don’t forget that the press loves the story that courts, lawyers, and the law are just wacky. Usually, when you get the facts it is not as wacky as you had been led to believe.
Like suing McDonalds because your coffee is too hot. That story has become urban legend. Did you ever hear the real facts? After she scalded herself she was pleading for help, and the McD employees were only concerned about getting her car out of the drive through lane. To the point where they pushed her car! Punative damages make sense to me in cses like that.
punaise @ 10
This is by no means a reflection on the two commenters here, but if I were on jury duty and unless it had to do with promoting impeachment of Bush & Cheney, I wouldn’t wear color-coordinated ANYTHING. Talk about a sheeple mentality, and childish to boot.
Maybe I’m being too harsh. It is pretty freakin’ hot here AND everything seems to be on fire!
44 responds to 41
BigMitch this is the lede:
link
dakine01 @ 47
link
Well, this just proves I don’t know what I am talking about. What’s your point.
:-)
Big Mitch @ 44
As well as the fact that McDonalds had been warned many times previously that their coffee was too hot at 180 plus degrees and chosen to not do anything in order to save money on re-fills.
@ 45
I think GordonM may have hit on it with the idea of a pesky social coordinator type trying to build “team spirit” at which point it is often easier to go along than raise a ruckus.
Kucinich speaking to U.S. Steel Workers on c-span. Calls for impeachment of Cheney. Receives loud — but not unanimous — cheering from the crowd.
LS, if you are still here, I will add a comment to the last thread. I got pulled away from our discussion midstream.
But you don’t get it. It’s the new American way. Guilty until proven innocent. That jury knows what they’re going to say, what King George wants them to say…..and they’re more than willing to say it. I’m surprised the guy is getting a trial at all. Oh well, after the “terrorist attack” this summer, we won’t have to worry about all those messy civil liberties, or liberty and justice for all, because we’ll have a king. And then, my friends, people are going to realize what they’ve lost, and things are going to get very messy. Not better, once lost, we’ll never get the Republic back. But hey, that doesn’t matter. We’re the little people, what the hell are we gonna do about it? Nothing, that’s what, flat out nothing!
Where’s the Larry Flynt info?
fwiw
they were copying the libby jury in d.c.
People who wear red, white & blue without a straw hat & tap shoes are creepy.
Twelve of them together is REALLY creepy.
[p.s. Larry Flynnt…my he-ro]
File under you can’t make this stuff up.
$282 Million was stolen in a heist at a private bank in Baghdad today.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07…..2iraq.html
Security may not be good but free enterprise seems to be working well in Baghdad.
dakine01 @ 49
Not to mention that any jury verdict that seems excessive is printed on the front page, but the media forgets to go back and print with the same ferver that the judgment was reduced or tossed on review.
LooHoo,
Rawstory has the scoopage.
-GSD
TJ @ 52
I’m here, and I’m there, and I’m….I don’t even know what I am after today to tell you the truth…
@ 45
I can’t disgree with that assessment!
Raw Story direct linkage
Now, I have to go read the story…. Dems were mentioned too…. fingers crossed as to who they might be…
Call Miriam-Webster and tell them we have a new definition of “Asshole:”
Sorry all..just came up on my computer]
Valley Girl @ 62
On Abrams report, Flynt was much more equivocal about Dems. He may have the goods on them, but if they are not hypocrites they are safe. And he sort of implied that this was the case for Dems. But he did say he would not have a different standard for Dems v. Replugs.
Lew Koch @ 64
Welcome, Lew. Highly unusual that you didn’t show up from the get go, as you have every other time. But, the OT stuff that has been posted in the meanwhile is interesting too!
CTuttle
Like I said…I was here and refreshing and who the hell knows
Valley Girl @ 62
Howie had this linked from The Hill
Thanks Valey Girl
Big Mitch @ 16
I agree with Big Mitch. I’ve been a civil jury trial lawyer for over 30 years and had several long trials in which jurors did things like that. It means nothing, or at least nothing from which inferences can be drawn. Bear in mind these people can only talk to each other for weeks and never about the case. They are herded around like sheep and excused whenever the arguments get interesting. Doing stuff like that lets them express some control in an environment where they have none until they deliberate. It was red white and blue because of the 4th. If was Halloween they would have worn costumes or red and green if near Xmas. Ignore it.
dakine01- oh! just don’t tell Howie that I have been falling down on my DownWithTyranny! reading!
Valley Girl @ 71
don’t worry…We’ll keep it our secret. ;})
Lew Koch @ 67
Ghosts in the Machine???
CTuttle @ 73
Terrorists.
I’m wondering whether defense counsel has made a record of the jury’s shenanigans, and of the judge’s rather casual oversight. Sort of a series of “let the record show” observations.
The English language comes to bear here. The words “decorum” and “demeanor” “climate” and “atmosphere” all have special meaning in courtrooms and in the judicial context. Also “respect.”
This strikes me as mistrial material, a violation of the judicial code of conduct (well, maybe), and is certainly outrageous. And I don’t buy into the idea of sandbagging the trial hoping for a basis for appeal, though it surely is.
FWIW
I have a feeling the prosecution’s winding down. My favorite Rohan Gunaratna had to defend his interview in Playboy with some lame reference to being glad to discuss it…and that he had not been asked to pose.
Big Mitch @ 63
Shorter Bush: Fuck you!
Just a quick drive-by to say hi to everyone-toobz trouble at my house, so I’m borrowing my brothers’. Hope everyone is well, and hope to be back up soon!
Hey Ron!
OT – how do I get the Facebook symbol to show up next to my name?
Lew Koch @ 76
When do you anticipate the Defense stage to start?
I was very uncomfortable when the Libby jury wore stuff. There is zero place for jury ego in a trial. I don’t care if it lightens the mood or takes the edge off. When one is deciding a potential grim fate, there is no right to maintaining a lighter mood, or easing the tension, or anything. Do the damn job.
This guy Kucinich, is on C-Span. Every time I hear him speak, I say to myself, “Why is this guy not my favorite?” And I never have a good answer.
Big Mitch @ 83
Well one biggie for my is he’s anti-choice.
dakine01 @ 84
C’est vrai? If so, it’s a deal killer for me.
Ctuttle at 82
The defense probably will begin maybe next week.
The prosecution hasn’t come up with an “ah ha!” that I can spot, especially on Padilla. If anyone has seen that moment, I’d like to know.
Big Mitch @ 83
Ask Cleveland. I think they know.
Big Mitch @ 83
He is the only one that’s got it right.
Big Mitch @ 83
He has my vote… He may be an oddball but he speaks the truth and votes correctly.
Big Mitch @ 85
He’s anti-choice? Back to the blackboard…
tpres2000 @ 80
These instructions were just posted last thread
Close out FDL and facebook a couple of times! re open and should work!
Lew Koch @ 87
That sounds promising, Lew! You’re my only viable source, so I couldn’t help you there! Hawai’i doesn’t seem take any interest in the case, hence, my reliance upon you and Rachel!!! Mahalo!!!
Well, is he or isn’t he?
My goodness, what could be causing gut problems in DC???
GordonM @ 88
He may have been a dismal Mayor, but, they keep sending him to represent them in Congress!!!
LS at 94
FUD ;-)
LS @ 94
taylormieritis?
LS @ 90
His website says he is “uncomfortable with abortion” and that he has a plan to reduce it with medical care, education, including abstinance education.” Does not say he favors outlawing it, though. Does not say he opposes outlawing it, explicitly, either. Accuses Repugs of using it as a wedge issue, but never intending to do anything about it.
CTuttle @ 95
Any jackass can represent you in Congress. And usually does.
Elliott @ 93
who?
D’Uh…………………
Chernoff’s gonna have a “Gut Bomb”…..hold yer noses….and buy a lot of duck tape……every body light a candle to stop all wars, but watch out for the Methane!!!!!!
LS @ 94
sounds like Foggy Bottom syndrome.
*YORBA LINDA, Calif. (AP) The Richard Nixon Library and Birthplace in Yorba Linda, California, is now officially in the hands of federal archivists. It had been privately run. Federal control will allow researchers access to more documents and tapes.
http://www.kxmc.com/News/142919.asp
I want to know much more about Kucinich’s thoughts on the bench and reproductive freedom (his issues site here)..
Considering his other stands I don’t think he would be nominating the same types for the bench as we have seen nominated from Republicans.
dakine01 @ 100
Kucinich and Mitch answered.
punaise @ 102
He just has to fart..d’ya think?
GordonM @ 99
True, but Hawai’i’s delegation I would put up against any other state’s, proudly!!! *g*
Q: As president would you have a specific litmus test question on Roe v. Wade that you would ask of your nominees for the high court?
A: Any of my appointments to the high court would necessarily reflect my thinking. I don’t know how it could be otherwise. I intend to be a president who’s a healer, who understands that this country has been put in a debate that has torn it apart. But the truth of the matter is, it’s possible to take a course of action where you can get all the people of America in support of a culture of life which includes prenatal care, postnatal care, child care, universal health care, a living wage, all those things that give support to life. And we also need to listen carefully to those who are concerned about abortion. At the same time, a healer as president would help reconcile this nation, and cause a woman’s right to privacy to be protected unquestioningly, protect Roe v. Wade, but also go out and listen to people and engage people and open up hearts.
Dennis Kucinic
LS @ 94
Is it possible that this may be causing the gastric discomfort?
WASHINGTON – U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded al-Qaida has rebuilt its operating capability to a level not seen since just before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, The Associated Press has learned.
ccmask at 103
CNN went with audio tape of Nixon calling McGovern some kind of prick and then got reaction from McGovern. I’m waiting for the good stuff.
A woman’s right-to-choose must be protected as essential to personal privacy and gender equality. Only those who agree to uphold Roe v. Wade should be nominated for the Supreme Court. I have a plan to reduce abortions by encouraging family planning, including abstinence training, combined with a full economic and health care plan that would clearly alleviate the number of abortions. Voters have a choice for a real plan to reduce the number of abortions with a program of economic justice.
Source: 2006 Congressional campaign website, http://www.kucinich.us Nov 7, 2006
@ 45
I hope the jury hasn’t drunk the kool-aid. Every bone in my body screams that this trial is a sham. It’s McCarthy. It’s J.Edgar Hoover. Urghh!
Signing off.
This reminds me of all the a**h***s in Washington who think they need to wear that stupid flag pin on their lapels to show their patriotism.
big mitch says “His website says he is “uncomfortable with abortion” and that he has a plan to reduce it with medical care, education, including abstinance education.” Does not say he favors outlawing it, though. Does not say he opposes outlawing it, explicitly, either. Accuses Repugs of using it as a wedge issue, but never intending to do anything about it.”
kuchinich-read this a while back from an interview……he does not favor outlawing it, and that it should be available…….just wants to reduce the number of abortions…….is personally not for it, but doesn’t want to take the right from others…agrees that it should be between a woman and her doctor……..sorry no link……read it a while back…….
Lew Koch @ 110
I missed that one.
lmjp1 @ 109
Probably not. Haven’t they stated repeatedly that they have destroyed 75% of Al-Qaeda’s leadership???? They have caught #2 at least 5 times…why believe anything “they” say.
Nixon Library and Larry Flynt all in one day! Sunshine time? I really like that Flynt is going to expose only the hypocrites.
Elliott @ 105
I googled Kucinich and anti-choice and it looks like he’s been all over the place on it. I didn’t go to the link but it seemed like Kos was calling it a convenient conversion. Which means he’s pretty much a standard politician when it comes right down to it.
Loo Hoo at 117
Flint’s been doing that for years now..I love it!
But, but, but, the decider is smoking them out, chasing them down, listening to their phone calls, following the money. What the hell have they been doing? Why isn’t anyone in the media asking how this could be possible? Could it be the USA has been wasting precious time and resources in eyerak?
Seeing Larry Flynt on TV reminded me of the fact that Tucker Carlson described him as “a pornographer and a Democratic Party Financier.” funny thing is that today, before I saw Flynt on Abrams, I made the conscious decision to not watch Fucker Carlson, because I had had enough of him for a life time.
LS @ 90
It is not really clear that he is anti-choice. He does think abortion is wrong, and he has done some things in the wrong direction from what I understand but he claims to be pro-choice. This is a confusing page but it does seem to document his positions pretty well, I know NARL is in the dog house but they rate as voting him 100% on abortion rights Correct me if I’m wrong.
Article Here.U.S. Congress may increase cigarette tax 156%
LS says,
Probably not. Haven’t they stated repeatedly that they have destroyed 75% of Al-Qaeda’s leadership???? They have caught #2 at least 5 times…why believe anything “they” say.
Uh huh and the insurgency is in it’s final throes.
tbsa @ 113
I guess they need to be reminded of John Prine’s immortal words
“Cause your flag decal won’t get you into heaven anymore
It’s already overcrowded by your dirty little war
Now Jesus don’t like killing no matter what the reasons for…”
How Vitter got Nabbed:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com…..-col-blogs
ccmask @ 123
Go for it!
lmjp1 at 124
And the check is in the mail and he’s not into nation building.
Wow.
http://www.commondreams.org/ar…..7/11/2440/
Want to talk about bad law in action? Read this:
TRENTON, N.J. – Almost 50 years after a police officer was slain, his widow has been ordered to pay $150,000 to the man acquitted of the murder.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19719368/
I like what Kucinich says about his personal stance on abortion. He is being honest, which is something most politicians hate like the plague. Abortion is not something to like. It may be a necessity, and he seems to recognize that. What’s wrong with reducing abortions by education, contraception, etc. If he won’t outlaw it, and protects choice, then who loses?
Big Mitch @ 127
I’d rather I have a “choice”, and I’d rather they went after torturers, war profiteers, and contractors, and pharmaceutical company profiteers.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 129
OJ’s talking to lawyers this instant, I’m sure.
SeamusD @ 132
Your position seems like the essence of “pro-choice,” and I agree with it. The only exception is that Kucinich is expressly in favor of “abstinence training,” which has been proven to be counter-productive.
The victims of Stalin’s show trials were numerous, mostly because Stalin wasn’t trying to intimidate the People so much as he was trying to actually eliminate potential opponents, resistors and other undesireables.
The Padilla show trial here has more propaganda value, more intimidation, in its prosecution; he’s an ‘object lesson,’ designed to be made an example of…expendable.
imo
.
Lew Koch @ 130
Of course he is not into nation building, he has done his best to destroy three counties. Too bad one of them happened to be his own.
LS @ 133
Are you a libertarian? Do you think that you should have a choice to do heroin also? If so, I respectfully disagree with you, my friend. Cigarettes are an addictive, death dealing drug. Taxing it out of existance is okay with me.
wgg: tokin lib’rul at 135
One other element: the public humiliation attached to saying they got the Padilla thing wrong, just plain wrong.
Vitter: bed, then “red”
punaise at 139
I hope and pray there are hundreds more exposed, and thousands more jokes like yours.
I don’t get it. Read the following….does it mean that he was trying to make 20 bucks or he was going to pay. I read it that Allen was trying to make money:
snip
Allen was considered to be acting suspicious by police as he entered and exited the men’s room three times, according to a Titusville Police report. Moments later, he approached the plainclothes officer and offered to perform oral sex for $20, police said.
BigMitch@137
Only one problem with that. Governments get more addicted to the tax money than the original addictive sin that was taxed. What would happen if no one bought smokes? Where would the gov’t get their big fixes?
Lew Koch @ 138
i’ll buy dat…
Lew Koch @ 140
all in the service of the fodder-land!
Big Mitch @ 137
Heroin, “my friend”, is an illegal drug. War is an addictive, destructive, death dealing situation, and I would like to get rid of that. Foods that cause obesity, which is most of the American diet, causes the leading cause of death, which is heart disease in the United States. Tax that. Smoking is just a side-show compared to the effect of the diet of the average American. Tax Micky D.
Lew-
See what happens when you don’t show up on time bec. of toobz problems?
Thank you for being so nice to us this eve.
People commenting above have pointed out that the Libby jury (except one) had coordinating tee shirts on Valentine’s day. But, what you report does seem “different”. Tho others have also said, “never can tell what the jury is thinking”, which turned out to be correct on some calls re: the Libby trial tee shirts.
Do you have a take on the coordination of attire at the Padilla trial? Were you there, in real time?
punaise @ 144
oh brodder
Shadowstalker @ 142
It’s easy to say just tax the smokers. In California every time the legislature wants money they tax us. I smoke – I wish I had never started and have tried to quit more times than I can count. I have given up but that doesn’t mean that I should have to pay and pay just because people no longer approve of smoking.
Twain @ 148
my father said quitting was easy, he did it a hundred times.
ccmask @ 141
i think it means he was offering $20 for oral sex…it is ambiguous about the relative positions of the participants in the transaction…
BTW: I Love Larry Flynt
he brings out the Kenneth Patchen in me…
Twain @ 148
Sure it does it’s called “gun or butter” and substitution. If they get pricey enough you’ll quit.
Valley Girl at 146
Not there in real time. But sourced the color coordination with four different in-court journalists and commentators.
I’m just now starting to think about reservations to Miami.
TRex is upstairs
Lew Koch @ 152
Had no doubt that your info was accurate re: the color coordination!
I don’t recall Ladybird Johnson ever speaking out against the napalming of Vietnamese children.
Twain @ 148
I smoked when I was much younger. How young? I swore I would never pay more than fifty cents for a pack and they wee forty-fice cents in the machines when I quit. Don’t know how much you smoke, but here in Texas, I’ve noticed that a pack is running $4-$5. Just a pack a day is approximately $30 a week, $125 a month, $1,500 a year. Screw the damn health benefits, just the econonmic savings alone make it worthwile. Add in the aggravation of having to go outside in the waeather to smoke.
If you want to quit, you will find a way. I quit cold turkey. My sister needed hypnosis therapy. Whatever works will work if you want it to work.
Re: Quitting
Hypnosis worked for me.
That, and I had incentive.
The last ex-mrs wgg declared emphatically one day that, since i had been a smoker when we met, and had kept on through the first 15 years of our relationship, she felt herself entitled to the next 15 years sans tabac.
she reinforced this with something of an ultimatum: i could continue to smoke, if i w3anted to go live in a cave. This being Louisiana, already just about all the habitable caves being occupied by something, i undertook the cure.
and it worked.
but i think you really gotta have motivation.
it’s hard…i haven’t smoked for 15 years, now, too
‘course the last ex-mrs wgg and i split in ‘99…
wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 157
Nice to hear from someone else in La.
Here’s what worked for me. Every time I wanted to pick one up, I just imagined some fat cats sitting around a board table laughing at all us suckers who they addicted. Works for gas too. You’ll be using public transportation in no time.
lew koch
“rohan gunaratna” is a sri lanka name.
what is his involvement in all this?
thanks.
Lew, great post.
The jury dressing up that way on July 4 really does creep me out. I was at the Libby trial the day the jurors wore red shirts for Valentine’s Day and read a love poem to the Judge and his staff. I thought that was very inappropriate as well.
That kind of levity has no place in a courtroom where a defendant’s liberty is at stake.
I also have trouble with the Judge’s ruling on the Government expert, Gunaratna, allowing him to testify about interviews he claimed to have conducted with more than 200 high ranking
Al Qaeda operatives without providing the defense with their names. I think he claimed some might be in secret prisons or have been tortured and divulging their names could put them at risk.
The defense has a right to test the credibility of witnesses. By allowing him to withhold their names, the Judge not only deprived them of that right, but of the right to conduct independent investigation into the veracity of the expert’s claims.
Surely she could have closed the courtroom, allowed the cross-examination to take place in private and then sealed the transcript. Seems to me Judges don’t have a problem doing that at the Government’s request.
Lew, Had no doubt that your info was accurate re: the color coordination!
Shadowstalker @ 142
I had to run out, and did not get a chance to make this very point before I left. I agree with you 100%. In a movie I saw about the cigarette industry an exec is quoted as saying that he doesn’t mind taxes because if goverment becomes dependent on same, they will never outlaw smoking.
Big Mitch @ 162
Which, by the way, is why I support earmarking those taxes for smoke cessation programs, and health care relating to smoking diseases.
OT-just a big ole HARUMPH to Jane, Christy and Marcy for incredible coverage of today’s events in our Capital . . . I read thru as much as I could this afternoon . . . and it was GRAND!!! *G*
The MAC People thing was funny. Call me Dual Core Intel MacRue!!!! Love my MAC.
Sure am looking forward to some analysis of it all, as much of it got by me . . . . but god, Issa should be . . . publicly flogged and put in stocks. Is that ok to say? *G*
I SO ashamed he’s a CA boy of any sort . . .
Anyhoots, nice work FDL, really appreciate it.
That Senate vote cheesed me off, but, I’m not sure I grok it fully, yet . . I’ve about had it with MY Feinstein, Boxer, Pelosi, though . . . . .
And anyone ELSE we elected in to create change.
They are all acting like either the bully kicked sand in their eyes, or they’re part of the same crap we’re trying to eliminate. My money is on the latter.
Harumph.
LS @ 145
I don’t know what the point of the observation that heroin is illegal is. Should we make tobacco illegal? As for the fact that diet is a major problem in America, this is, truly a problem. Our farm bill contributes to it by subsidizing corn so heavily. By the way, this is also an immigration issue. Smoking is not a side-show compared to diet for the average smoker. I used the expression, my friend, because I thought the tone of my comment might be interpreted as to confrontational.
I agree with Big Mitch and Peterdownunder. I’m not a lawyer, but I was a juror. The guy was charged with murdering two women and the trial lasted more than three months. We spent HOURS in the jury room and we weren’t supposed to talk about the one thing that everybody wants to talk about. I think our jury was unusual in that we all got to be pals. We didn’t coordinate our outfits, but only because nobody thought of it. Outfit coordination means only that the jury’s in a good mood and not getting too weirded out by jury duty.