zed

Right On, Reverend!

This stirs my radical political imagination.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 3

This stirs my radical political imagination.

I thought you might like it, OK Kiddo.

;)

Apologies for the shock, everyone. It’s a bit of a jump to go from Lady Bird Johnson to Angry Black Bitch.

Angry Black Bitch is awesome, well, she is beyond awesome! I read her ALL the time. And she is not only funny but a true voice of sanity and compassion.

It’s ok, Peterr — firepups are nothing if not adaptable ;-)

I met Angela Davis in San Rafael, CA in October, 1968. She had charisma !!

Two years later, San Rafael came back into her life in a very negative way. Supposedly, Timothy Leary’s dentist hid her until she could be smuggled to the east coast.

ABB represents the spirit of the 60’s. I support her wholeheartedly.

Bad storm blowing this way; gotta get off-line. O/t……No time to check if previously posted…….if not, enjoy. *g* Catch up w/y’all later.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/my…..geId=1.1.1

Hint: it’s got an “R” after its name.

LoudounLib @ 7

It’s ok, Peterr — firepups are nothing if not adaptable ;-)

And given who Lady Bird was married to, I’d guess that perhaps she was familiar with the vocabulary of ABB.

Right on Peterr.
ABB is the real deal, she walks the walk and talks the talk.
She recently reached out to a VERY young woman who had been raped and NOT told about the day after pill. She was one hot lady for that.
I catch her about once a week if not more.
Good deal for spreading the word.

Blink.

Kudos and heartfelt
((((((((((ANGRY BLACK BITCH!))))))))))

I met Angela Davis when I was a very very young woman in Burlington VT in the early 80s (81?) and she was not only inspiring but incredibly kind to the young woman I was then.

I remember her from the Life Magazine spread done on her in the early 70s and wanted after that to emulate her in any way I could. I must’ve been around 12 or 12.

got a bad linkie there Peterr – second one – the one about the legislation

And yes, ABB is THE. REAL. DEAL.

She is a tremendous inspiration–I read her like some people read their daily catechism! (Don’t mean to be blasphemous Rev Peterr, but that is how she is…like a modern day st Francis in her cabriolet!)

And then we have George Bush: Angry white bitch.

Great. Another politician inserts himself into the exam room. I think that every politician who votes for medieval bad science, medical malpractice should have to be present when each and every rape, incest and sexually molested victim presents to an emergency room. He or she must stay with the patient throughout the evidence collection, the rape exam, the police questioning, and the treatment until the victim is released.

If they are going to (mal)practice medicine, then they d*mn well better be in the room treating the patient.

I am beyond outraged at politicians usurping the rights of women and practicing medicine and nursing without a license. I wish victims would file a class action medical malpractice suit against every one of ‘em who commits violence against patients, whoever they may be.

There is a revolution coming. People are beginning to wake up and realize that the system is INTENTIONALLY stacked against them, and that unless they begin fighting back now, there will be no hope for them later.

Slightly OT:

I for one am amazed that 41 Republican Senators and 1 Independent Senator are on the record as claiming they know more about Military Troop readiness than the former Secretary of the Navy, Jim Webb.

Why in the world would a Senator like Chuck Grassley – R-IA, be claiming that the current Bush strategy is superior to the ideas outlined in the Webb amendment. Astounding, because almost 2/3 of his state population is in favor of supporting the troops by bringing them home.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 17

And then we have George Bush: Angry white bitch.

George Bush is a mean man, a cruel, thoughtless ________

Bustednuckles @ 12

Right on Peterr.
ABB is the real deal, she walks the walk and talks the talk.
She recently reached out to a VERY young woman who had been raped and NOT told about the day after pill. She was one hot lady for that.
I catch her about once a week if not more.
Good deal for spreading the word.

Blink.

That was a powerful set of stories – part one, part two, and part three.

The bitch is DEFINITELY there for “the after.”

Madam is a pissed off bitch too, as will all of the wives and girlfriends of these guys – I say, bring it on, since nothing rational stops them:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..als-leads/

U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded al-Qaida has rebuilt its operating capability to a level not seen since just before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, The Associated Press has learned.
Full story.

BTW–I should mention, now that I have come out of the closet, via facebook, I see no reason to hold back on the so-called secrets that my friends and family already know. I was a teenaged mother–at 17. An incest victim (at that time–though now I am a full fledged human being) and I have had an abortion (while a single mother on welfare–thank the goddess that federal funding was still available to medicaid recipients). I am not ashamed of having an abortion, only of being too much of a fucked up tool (due to my abuse and the consequent desperation) which allowed me to have unprotected sex with a m an who did not give a shit about me (in the days before AIDS fortunately). But I am not ashamed of the abortion, because it was life-affirming, it supported not only my life, but my already-born daughter’s.

It is ok in Shrubworld to go and kill Iraqi children (collatoral damage) but not alright for a woman to make a decision regarding not only her life, but more likely the children who are already born.

Most of us, if not all of us 60’s and 70’s SDS types admired Davis. Still do. Power to the people!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=

Fern @ 15

got a bad linkie there Peterr – second one – the one about the legislation

Either a friendly lurking mod cleaned it up, or the problem is on your end. They all work fine for me.

(Although, to be honest about it, the KC Star website is not the most . . . ahem . . . tech friendly. Perhaps there’s a site registration problem or something.)

test

Big Mitch @ 23

U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded al-Qaida has rebuilt its operating capability to a level not seen since just before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, The Associated Press has learned.
Full story.

Yeah, well maybe they’re all infected with the Avian Flu they tried to scare us with the other day…start replaying the clips where the Administration bragged about getting rid of 75% of the Al-Qaeda leadership…

All this does is amplify their incredible bullsh**. I don’t even believe the Zawahiri video crapola. They only bring it out when it is politically effective. They have politicized the Justice system, the Surgeon General, science, and they’ve politicized Zawahiri too, and meanwhile Chertoff has to pass gas and imagines that means we’re gonna be attacked. Well, okay, but it is their fault if there is an attack; survivors remember that.

I’d rather die pissed than scared. A**h***s.

Impeach for Treason.

In 2005, PBS documented similar laws in Mississippi:

Constantly testing the “undue burden” standard introduced by the Supreme Court in its 1992 Casey ruling, Mississippi has enacted a series of restrictions on access to abortion. Starting with rigid parental consent rules, the state added steep new barriers to abortion access, including requirements that abortion doctors must have admitting privileges at local hospitals. Starting in 2006, facilities performing second and third trimester procedures must meet the same regulatory standards as full surgical hospitals, 36 pages of rules in all. As a result, the entire state of Mississippi, one of the poorest in the nation, now has only a single abortion clinic, the Jacksonboro Women’s Health Clinic.

For more details, see:
“The Last Abortion Clinic.”

Woodhall Hollow @ 24

(((((Woodhall Hollow))))

Woodhall Hollow @ 25

BTW–I should mention, now that I have come out of the closet, via facebook, I see no reason to hold back on the so-called secrets that my friends and family already know. I was a teenaged mother–at 17. An incest victim (at that time–though now I am a full fledged human being) and I have had an abortion (while a single mother on welfare–thank the goddess that federal funding was still available to medicaid recipients). I am not ashamed of having an abortion, only of being too much of a fucked up tool (due to my abuse and the consequent desperation) which allowed me to have unprotected sex with a m an who did not give a shit about me (in the days before AIDS fortunately). But I am not ashamed of the abortion, because it was life-affirming, it supported not only my life, but my already-born daughter’s.

It is ok in Shrubworld to go and kill Iraqi children (collatoral damage) but not alright for a woman to make a decision regarding not only her life, but more likely the children who are already born.

That’s powerful testimony.

Woodhall Hollow @ 24

BTW–I should mention, now that I have come out of the closet, via facebook, I see no reason to hold back on the so-called secrets that my friends and family already know. I was a teenaged mother–at 17. An incest victim (at that time–though now I am a full fledged human being) and I have had an abortion (while a single mother on welfare–thank the goddess that federal funding was still available to medicaid recipients). I am not ashamed of having an abortion, only of being too much of a fucked up tool (due to my abuse and the consequent desperation) which allowed me to have unprotected sex with a m an who did not give a shit about me (in the days before AIDS fortunately). But I am not ashamed of the abortion, because it was life-affirming, it supported not only my life, but my already-born daughter’s.

It is ok in Shrubworld to go and kill Iraqi children (collatoral damage) but not alright for a woman to make a decision regarding not only her life, but more likely the children who are already born.

You have every reason to be proud of your choices and should never apologize to anyone.
Strong women make good mothers.

I was just wondering, does anybody here know who Condi fucks? Or if?

Woodhall Hollow @ 24

BTW–I should mention, now that I have come out of the closet, via facebook, I see no reason to hold back on the so-called secrets that my friends and family already know. I was a teenaged mother–at 17. An incest victim (at that time–though now I am a full fledged human being) and I have had an abortion (while a single mother on welfare–thank the goddess that federal funding was still available to medicaid recipients). I am not ashamed of having an abortion, only of being too much of a fucked up tool (due to my abuse and the consequent desperation) which allowed me to have unprotected sex with a m an who did not give a shit about me (in the days before AIDS fortunately). But I am not ashamed of the abortion, because it was life-affirming, it supported not only my life, but my already-born daughter’s.

It is ok in Shrubworld to go and kill Iraqi children (collatoral damage) but not alright for a woman to make a decision regarding not only her life, but more likely the children who are already born.

You’ve been through a lot. Glad you’ve come through it, with strength and power.

Peace, WH!

Toby Martin @ 30

I was just wondering, does anybody here know who Condi fucks? Or if?

Who cares?

Oh Baby, we have so much in common. Little does he know that he should have never said – Bring. it. on.

Toby Martin @ 31

I was just wondering, does anybody here know who Condi fucks? Or if?

Funny you should ask.

The presumed Virgin Queen who has been alleged to be doing Shrub was romantically linked briefly to a Canadian diplomat, (last administration.)

What makes your question so timely is that she was seen playing golf today, and, told reporters –presumably speaking of her affection for sports –

I like anything that ends with a score.

Twain @ 33

Toby Martin @ 30

I was just wondering, does anybody here know who Condi fucks? Or if?

Who cares?

Wrong blog

{{{{{{{{{{Woodhall Hollow}}}}}}}}}

Elliott @ 30

Woodhall Hollow @ 24

(((((Woodhall Hollow))))

awwww shucks!

Getting moderated on my own thread? Woodhall Hollow @ 5:05, I replied at 5:13. If you don’t see it, reload the page.

Thanks, Mods!

(now, let’s see if I can figure out what got me snagged in the filters . . . A*DS? Inc*st?)

Mod note: Hint, the “r” word. Sorry about that.

Woodhall Hollow @ 25

BTW–I should mention, now that I have come out of the closet, via facebook, I see no reason to hold back on the so-called secrets that my friends and family already know. I was a teenaged mother–at 17. An incest victim (at that time–though now I am a full fledged human being) and I have had an abortion (while a single mother on welfare–thank the goddess that federal funding was still available to medicaid recipients). I am not ashamed of having an abortion, only of being too much of a fucked up tool (due to my abuse and the consequent desperation) which allowed me to have unprotected sex with a m an who did not give a shit about me (in the days before AIDS fortunately). But I am not ashamed of the abortion, because it was life-affirming, it supported not only my life, but my already-born daughter’s.

It is ok in Shrubworld to go and kill Iraqi children (collatoral damage) but not alright for a woman to make a decision regarding not only her life, but more likely the children who are already born.

Tell ‘em Woodbaby

Peterr @ 37

Getting moderated on my own thread? Woodhall Hollow @ 5:05, I replied at 5:13. If you don’t see it, reload the page.

Thanks, Mods!

(now, let’s see if I can figure out what got me snagged in the filters . . . A*DS? Inc*st?)

Mine got lost, too and I didn’t use any words that are bad.

Woodhall Hollow @ 25

BTW–I should mention, now that I have come out of the closet, via facebook, I see no reason to hold back on the so-called secrets that my friends and family already know. I was a teenaged mother–at 17. An incest victim (at that time–though now I am a full fledged human being) and I have had an abortion (while a single mother on welfare–thank the goddess that federal funding was still available to medicaid recipients). I am not ashamed of having an abortion, only of being too much of a fucked up tool (due to my abuse and the consequent desperation) which allowed me to have unprotected sex with a m an who did not give a shit about me (in the days before AIDS fortunately). But I am not ashamed of the abortion, because it was life-affirming, it supported not only my life, but my already-born daughter’s.

It is ok in Shrubworld to go and kill Iraqi children (collatoral damage) but not alright for a woman to make a decision regarding not only her life, but more likely the children who are already born.

This is a very powerful testimony.

I have thought for some time that the way for we progressives to influence the debate on reproductive freedom is for us to have buttons or ribbons that say: “Someone I love had an abortion.”

The thought is that as long as abortion is seen as something that nobody I know does, it is easy to be against it. But it is not true. There have been over a million abortions in America for each of the last 25 years. But a campaign to make that fact widely appreciated is unfair if it pressures women to throw away their right to privacy.

Thank you so much Peterr and dakine…my point was not to garner personal sympathy but to point out that being forced to bring children into the world which you do not have the resources to care for and nurture is not only NOT life affirming, but it is incredibly hypocritical on the part of the Bushites, given that so many already born children have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. And we do not even know their names and ages.

Woodhall Hollow — not to mention their support for Death Penalty.

I’m at the shelter you will not fund that is filled to capacity with young mothers in search of the housing you will not approve.

I hold the babies you lost interest in the moment they were born.

I comfort the mothers…the women…my sisters who you will not mentor, volunteer to teach or employ.

WOW

Condi?

Don Cheadle Goes Off on Condi

“She wanted to tell me what the U.S. was doing,” Cheadle said. “First she said, ‘We’re doing all we can, but it’s not us, it’s the United Nations. They’re bogged down with red tape, and trying to push anything through just takes forever. The bureaucracy is almost insurmountable, and it’s the United Nations, not the U.S.’ And then she said, ‘It’s like when we had this crisis in Lebanon, I had to send someone down specifically to push through all of our legislation and make sure that everything moved through efficiently.’ I’m thinking, I thought you had no control over the United Nations. But I didn’t say that, ’cause I wanted to leave!”

The audience erupted in laughter.

“And then she basically said, ‘And I’ve heard a lot of you activists talking about George Bush needs to do more to stop the crisis in Darfur, and George Bush can’t stop this crisis in Darfur. You guys need to back off of that.’”

The actor did eventually return to the subject of Bush. “Look, he’s been hoisted on his own petard. I don’t have to say anything about him. Everybody knows what’s up with him.”

I’d like to see Angry Black Bitch face to face with Bush.

Cheadle, co-author of Not On Our Watch, about the genocide in Darfur, was recently called in to talk to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice about the issue. And he wasn’t impressed.

(((((Woodhall Hollow)))))

Choice means choice. Choosing to have a baby if you can take proper care of it, and choosing not to if rips a mother’s life apart.

BigMitch @ 45

Woodhall Hollow @ 25

BTW–I should mention, now that I have come out of the closet, via facebook, I see no reason to hold back on the so-called secrets that my friends and family already know. I was a teenaged mother–at 17. An incest victim (at that time–though now I am a full fledged human being) and I have had an abortion (while a single mother on welfare–thank the goddess that federal funding was still available to medicaid recipients). I am not ashamed of having an abortion, only of being too much of a fucked up tool (due to my abuse and the consequent desperation) which allowed me to have unprotected sex with a m an who did not give a shit about me (in the days before AIDS fortunately). But I am not ashamed of the abortion, because it was life-affirming, it supported not only my life, but my already-born daughter’s.

It is ok in Shrubworld to go and kill Iraqi children (collatoral damage) but not alright for a woman to make a decision regarding not only her life, but more likely the children who are already born.

This is a very powerful testimony.

I have thought for some time that the way for we progressives to influence the debate on reproductive freedom is for us to have buttons or ribbons that say: “Someone I love had an abortion.”

The thought is that as long as abortion is seen as something that nobody I know does, it is easy to be against it. But it is not true. There have been over a million abortions in America for each of the last 25 years. But a campaign to make that fact widely appreciated is unfair if it pressures women to throw away their right to privacy.

Just think what it would do to the debate if we could just all stand up for our decisions, and not call it “regretible.” I do not want to comment on whether or not it is regretable on a personal level, but rather whether or not that it is regrettable that we have to feign shame on a political level a al Hilary. I suspect that if she had ever been out on the front lines in survival mode as I was and so many of my sisters, she would not view ab*rtion as a “regrettable, but rather as a courageous decision that some women have the misfortune of having to make. When it comes to life, I will chose the born over the unborn every. single. time.

BigMitch @ 43

This is a very powerful testimony.

I have thought for some time that the way for we progressives to influence the debate on reproductive freedom is for us to have buttons or ribbons that say: “Someone I love had an abortion.”

The thought is that as long as abortion is seen as something that nobody I know does, it is easy to be against it. But it is not true. There have been over a million abortions in America for each of the last 25 years. But a campaign to make that fact widely appreciated is unfair if it pressures women to throw away their right to privacy.

PFLAG has done much to dispel the myths attached to the GLBT closet, in large part because of the parents who stand up and say “You’re talking about my kid.” The abortion closet — as Woodhall Hollow can no doubt attest — has all kinds of other things attached to it. Still, the PFLAG model of standing up for our anonymous sisters is one worth pondering.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 49

Condi?

Don Cheadle Goes Off on Condi

“She wanted to tell me what the U.S. was doing,” Cheadle said. “First she said, ‘We’re doing all we can, but it’s not us, it’s the United Nations. They’re bogged down with red tape, and trying to push anything through just takes forever. The bureaucracy is almost insurmountable, and it’s the United Nations, not the U.S.’ And then she said, ‘It’s like when we had this crisis in Lebanon, I had to send someone down specifically to push through all of our legislation and make sure that everything moved through efficiently.’ I’m thinking, I thought you had no control over the United Nations. But I didn’t say that, ’cause I wanted to leave!”

The audience erupted in laughter.

“And then she basically said, ‘And I’ve heard a lot of you activists talking about George Bush needs to do more to stop the crisis in Darfur, and George Bush can’t stop this crisis in Darfur. You guys need to back off of that.’”

The actor did eventually return to the subject of Bush. “Look, he’s been hoisted on his own petard. I don’t have to say anything about him. Everybody knows what’s up with him.”

Speaking of Don Cheadle–did anyone see Charlie Rose give him shit for not working hard enough last night? I am sorry, but that was one of the most racist and patronizing displays I have seen on PBS in a long time.

Woodhall Hollow @ 45

Thank you so much Peterr and dakine…my point was not to garner personal sympathy but to point out that being forced to bring children into the world which you do not have the resources to care for and nurture is not only NOT life affirming, but it is incredibly hypocritical on the part of the Bushites, given that so many already born children have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. And we do not even know their names and ages.

The height of hypocrisy is the notion that a woman who has an abortion is cavalier about the choice…the narrative of the right-to-life crowd is that you are murdering a possible future savior…the narrative by the very same people is that if you kill Muslim childen at any stage of development, it is justified, because you eliminate a future terrorist and that is okay; because the child the terrorist may kill “over here” may grow up to be the unaborted future savior. It is almost that convoluted and insane.

Elliott @ 49

I’d like to see Angry Black Bitch face to face with Bush.

He’s possibly already been there.

TJ @ 53

Choice means choice. Choosing to have a baby if you can take proper care of it, and choosing not to if rips a mother’s life apart.

We are all citizens. If the f*cking president has the right to make life and death decisions regarding war and capital punishment, then every woman should have a similar right when it comes to her own body. And life.

albert fall @ 46

I’m at the shelter you will not fund that is filled to capacity with young mothers in search of the housing you will not approve.

I hold the babies you lost interest in the moment they were born.

I comfort the mothers…the women…my sisters who you will not mentor, volunteer to teach or employ.

WOW

Read her blog for any length of time, or prowl through her archives, and you’ll see that it’s not just words.

But what that girl can do with words makes this preacher jealous.

I have already stated, and will reiterate, that my house is a safe house for any woman en route to Canada or a pro-choice state for a legal abortion, should the shit hit the fan, as I expect it will. And because of my contacts across the border I am a willing driver.

You go, Angry Black Bitch. You go!

Woodhall Hollow @ 24

BTW–I should mention, now that I have come out of the closet, via facebook, I see no reason to hold back on the so-called secrets that my friends and family already know. I was a teenaged mother–at 17. An incest victim (at that time–though now I am a full fledged human being) and I have had an abortion (while a single mother on welfare–thank the goddess that federal funding was still available to medicaid recipients). I am not ashamed of having an abortion, only of being too much of a fucked up tool (due to my abuse and the consequent desperation) which allowed me to have unprotected sex with a m an who did not give a shit about me (in the days before AIDS fortunately). But I am not ashamed of the abortion, because it was life-affirming, it supported not only my life, but my already-born daughter’s.

It is ok in Shrubworld to go and kill Iraqi children (collateral damage) but not alright for a woman to make a decision regarding not only her life, but more likely the children who are already born.

Am very moved by your comments and thank you for speaking truth to power on behalf of far too many other young American women who have and continue to endure 2nd class citizenship, cruel misogyny, enduring shame and scant equal opportunity. I’m sure your daughter is just as proud of you as this ole brat!

Woodhall Hollow @ 59

TJ @ 53

Choice means choice. Choosing to have a baby if you can take proper care of it, and choosing not to if rips a mother’s life apart.

We are all citizens. If the f*cking president has the right to make life and death decisions regarding war and capital punishment, then every woman should have a similar right when it comes to her own body. And life.

Amen. I admire your decision.

{{{Woodhall Hollow}}}} – the truth…

One of my colleagues took in a foster child who was likely kept in the trunk of a car for the first two years of his life. And probably “rented” sexually for drugs. This poor kid has had a lifetime of physical and developmental struggles and more suffering than anyone should have to bear.

No one can tell me this is more humane than an abortion.

Woodhall Hollow @ 46

Thank you so much Peterr and dakine…my point was not to garner personal sympathy but to point out that being forced to bring children into the world which you do not have the resources to care for and nurture is not only NOT life affirming, but it is incredibly hypocritical on the part of the Bushites, given that so many already born children have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. And we do not even know their names and ages.

I understand. But so many of the Bush enablers and fundies are in favor of children from conception to birth at which point the Social Darwinism kicks in. Until birth, it is a means to enslave women. And if they can force women to have unwanted children, it enslaves them that much further.

TJ @ 63

One of my colleagues took in a foster child who was likely kept in the trunk of a car for the first two years of his life. And probably “rented” sexually for drugs. This poor kid has had a lifetime of physical and developmental struggles and more suffering than anyone should have to bear.

No one can tell me this is more humane than an abortion.

I won’t comment personally on the humaneness except to say that the teaching goes both ways. Your colleague and the child are both fortunate in this life.

Thing one: Signing a law imposing your religious views on the bodies of my sisters, cousins, aunts, nieces, neighbors and friends in a Baptist Church kind of pisses me off, too.

Thing two: Matt Blunt is corrupt and in my view, one of the U.S. Attorney firings was to interfere with an investigation of him. Documented in The puke state.

It’ s a slightly long post, and please forgive the blogwhoring.

LS @ 57

…the narrative of the right-to-life crowd is that you are murdering a possible future savior…

I have often speculated that it because they believe that an unborn child is without oringinal sin. Once they’re born, it’s a whole different story. They’re welfare cheats.

In a not-entirely-logical way, Terri Schiavo fits in there too – helpless as a fetus.

The right’s vision of education is centered on “what to think” while the rest of the world understands that “how to think” is what matters.

As ABB notes,

HB 1055 is an insult to every intelligent woman in Missouri who has made positive choices from a place of knowledge and is now being told they are better off having a power hungry pseudo religious incompetent and out of touch white man in government make those choices for them.

And HB 1055 is but one of the insults.

It would appear that ABB has Had Enough.

GordonM @ 67

LS @ 57

…the narrative of the right-to-life crowd is that you are murdering a possible future savior…

I have often speculated that it because they believe that an unborn child is without oringinal sin. Once they’re born, it’s a whole different story. They’re welfare cheats.

In a not-entirely-logical way, Terri Schiavo fits in there too – helpless as a fetus.

Only the self-sufficient, viable may survive?

LS @ 67

TJ @ 63

One of my colleagues took in a foster child who was likely kept in the trunk of a car for the first two years of his life. And probably “rented” sexually for drugs. This poor kid has had a lifetime of physical and developmental struggles and more suffering than anyone should have to bear.

No one can tell me this is more humane than an abortion.

I won’t comment personally on the humaneness except to say that the teaching goes both ways. Your colleague and the child are both fortunate in this life.

LS, I’m puzzled why you say this child was fortunate. He’s physically and emotionally damaged, and at this point does not appear that he can be normal in society. He may no longer be subjected to the physical abuse, but the damage is permanent.

Thing one: Signing a law imposing your religious views on the bodies of my sisters, cousins, aunts, nieces, neighbors and friends in a Baptist Church kind of pisses me off, too.

Thing two: Matt Blunt is corrupt and in my view, one of the U.S. Attorney firings was to interfere with an investigation of him. Documented in The puke state.

It’ s a slightly long post, and please forgive the blogwhoring. Correcting link in #68.

Big Mitch @ 64

Thing one: Signing a law imposing your religious views on the bodies of my sisters, cousins, aunts, nieces, neighbors and friends in a Baptist Church kind of pisses me off, too.

Thing two: Matt Blunt is corrupt and in my view, one of the U.S. Attorney firings was to interfere with an investigation of him. Documented in The puke state.

It’ s a slightly long post, and please forgive the blogwhoring.

Re Thing One: Yep.

And the thing of it is, it probably won’t help him much with his Baptist friends. By their lights, Matt waffles too much on the stem cell research prohibitions they want enacted, and this isn’t even close to enough to satisfy them.

Re Thing Two: Yep. Corrupt is the word for it. He and his dad, and dad’s BFF Tom Delay, and their friend Jack Abramoff . . .

[edit: link corrected]

I can’t tell if we won the minds and hearts
today?
More delays before Taylor contempt?
Wilson did so goooood today. If you tell the truth, it shows…
Meirs should be arrested… in violation of

According to TPM:
Invoking a privilege is one thing, but telling a person not to show up in response to a subpoena — if only to actually invoke the privilege — is quite another. It’s not just worse, it’s a felony under federal criminal law. See for yourself.
18 U.S.C. Sec. 1505 : … Whoever corruptly … influences, obstructs, or impedes … the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which any inquiry or investigation is being had by either House, or any committee of either House or any joint committee of the Congress … [s]hall be fined under this title, [or] imprisoned not more than 5 years … or both.

18 U.S.C. Sec. 1515(b): As used in section 1505, the term “corruptly” means acting with an improper purpose, personally or by influencing another, including … withholding, [or] concealing … information

TJ @ 72

LS @ 67

I won’t comment personally on the humaneness except to say that the teaching goes both ways. Your colleague and the child are both fortunate in this life.

LS, I’m puzzled why you say this child was fortunate. He’s physically and emotionally damaged, and at this point does not appear that he can be normal in society. He may no longer be subjected to the physical abuse, but the damage is permanent.

I guess I’m equally puzzled. This is not, in my opinion, a question of choice as much as it is a question of judgment. Are you suggesting that physical and emotional damage or normalcy in society, is somehow a criteria for this child’s right to live? I’m very confused by that.

Bay State Librul @ 75

I can’t tell if we won the minds and hearts
today?
More delays before Taylor contempt?
Wilson did so goooood today. If you tell the truth, it shows…
Meirs should be arrested… in violation of

According to TPM:
Invoking a privilege is one thing, but telling a person not to show up in response to a subpoena — if only to actually invoke the privilege — is quite another. It’s not just worse, it’s a felony under federal criminal law. See for yourself.
18 U.S.C. Sec. 1505 : … Whoever corruptly … influences, obstructs, or impedes … the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which any inquiry or investigation is being had by either House, or any committee of either House or any joint committee of the Congress … [s]hall be fined under this title, [or] imprisoned not more than 5 years … or both.

18 U.S.C. Sec. 1515(b): As used in section 1505, the term “corruptly” means acting with an improper purpose, personally or by influencing another, including … withholding, [or] concealing … information

Here’s the link:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/015267.php

Just out from the AP – Another Republican bites the dust!

State House Rep. Arrested

Titusville police say they have arrested Florida State Rep. Robert
“Bob” Allen, of Merrit Island, on second degree misdemeanor charges
for soliciation for prostiution.

The park was under surveillance by a detail of undercover police
officers.

Officers say they noticed Allen acting suspicious as he went in and
out of the men’s restroom 3 times.

Minutes later, he solicited an undercover male officer inside the
restroom, offering to perform oral sex for $20.

Officers realized he was a public figure after the arrest.

CAW CAW

LS @ 76

TJ @ 72

LS, I’m puzzled why you say this child was fortunate. He’s physically and emotionally damaged, and at this point does not appear that he can be normal in society. He may no longer be subjected to the physical abuse, but the damage is permanent.

I guess I’m equally puzzled. This is not, in my opinion, a question of choice as much as it is a question of judgment. Are you suggesting that physical and emotional damage or normalcy in society, is somehow a criteria for this child’s right to live? I’m very confused by that.

This child is fortunate in this life, because of the love and compassion of your colleague. Your colleague is fortunate in this life to have the challenge to love such an unfortunate soul. I hope that clarifies it. It is just my personal thought.

Harriet M. can’t be arrested until at least tomorrow, because there isn’t a crime until she fails to appear.

Of course, as a former nominee to SCOTUS and former WH Counsel, she probably knows that. Then again, given who nominated her and hired her, maybe not.

Peterr @ 80

Harriet M. can’t be arrested until at least tomorrow, because there isn’t a crime until she fails to appear.

Of course, as a former nominee to SCOTUS and former WH Counsel, she probably knows that. Then again, given who nominated her and hired her, maybe not.

Can’t we pre-arrest her as part of the underlying crime?

ccmask @ 78

Just out from the AP – Another Republican bites the dust!

State House Rep. Arrested

Titusville police say they have arrested Florida State Rep. Robert
“Bob” Allen, of Merrit Island, on second degree misdemeanor charges
for soliciation for prostiution.

The park was under surveillance by a detail of undercover police
officers.

Officers say they noticed Allen acting suspicious as he went in and
out of the men’s restroom 3 times.

Minutes later, he solicited an undercover male officer inside the
restroom, offering to perform oral sex for $20.

Officers realized he was a public figure after the arrest.

CAW CAW

LMAO!!!

Is there a point beyond which even the fundies will take notice that this is not an isolated incident? Beyond which they will say, “Hey maybe we ought to re-examine being so moralistic.”

TJ, LS, and others, you all might be interested in ABB’s post to and about her autistic brother. She’s posted about him before, from time to time, if you want more about their relationship and how she deals it all.

We are all changed by the people in our lives — however “healthy” or “normal” or whatever they are. We can choose to be changed for the better, or for the worse.

O/T

I am watching Chernoff talk about his gut feeling.

Too bad Colbert is on vacation. This would be a gift from heaven for him.

testing…do i have an f?

Allen, who at times has been a bit of maverick in the Florida Legislature and clashed with GOP legislative leaders, had already planned to run for a state Senate seat now held by Sen. Bill Posey, a Rockledge Republican. His last reports showed he had already raised more than $24,000 for the effort.

What is $24,000 Divided by $20.00?

Kathryn in MA @ 85

testing…do i have an f?

not yet

Rep. Artur Davis(D-AL) is dead on about Pardoning Libby, as Marcy among others has noted, it was a deliberative attempt to obstruct justice!

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003664.php

Peterr @ 83

TJ, LS, and others, you all might be interested in ABB’s post to and about her autistic brother. She’s posted about him before, from time to time, if you want more about their relationship and how she deals it all.

Thanks. I will also tell you that a very good friend of mine has 3 children. One is autistic, one is a Down’s Syndrome child, and the other is “normal”. My friend is a nurse. she loves all of her children dearly and equally. Her children love her dearly also.

We are all changed by the people in our lives — however “healthy” or “normal” or whatever they are. We can choose to be changed for the better, or for the worse.

Bay State Librul @ 81

Peterr @ 80

Harriet M. can’t be arrested until at least tomorrow, because there isn’t a crime until she fails to appear.

Of course, as a former nominee to SCOTUS and former WH Counsel, she probably knows that. Then again, given who nominated her and hired her, maybe not.

Can’t we pre-arrest her as part of the underlying crime?

Pre-emptive arrest? The thought of it is not particularly pleasant in most cases but then neither is the thought of pre-emptive wars.

now?

Being alive gives us the opportunity to love.

Kathryn in MA @ 91

now?

sadly, no

CTuttle @ 88

Rep. Artur Davis(D-AL) is dead on about Pardoning Libby, as Marcy among others has noted, it was a deliberative attempt to obstruct justice!

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003664.php

a deliberate blatant in-your-face obstruction of justice

FYI, Lew is upstairs

new thread and no f

BigMitch @ 38

Toby Martin @ 31

I was just wondering, does anybody here know who Condi fucks? Or if?

Funny you should ask.

The presumed Virgin Queen who has been alleged to be doing Shrub was romantically linked briefly to a Canadian diplomat, (last administration.)

What makes your question so timely is that she was seen playing golf today, and, told reporters –presumably speaking of her affection for sports –

I like anything that ends with a score.

Actually it was Peter McKay who is the current Minister of External Affairs. He is quite the joke in Canada. It’s funny that the media in the great white north had a field day with the story but the U.S media chose not to make mention of it.

I just posted this suggestion for ABB:

ORGANIZE THE KIDS.

That’s right — get with a bunch of progressive, smart kids in Missouri high schools and help them form their own groups to teach each other ACCURATE sex ed.

The beauty of this is that it also gets them into politics — and into progressive politics.

Missouri’s idiot governor may have inadvertently created a crop of hardcore junior progressive activists. ;-)

LS @ 89

Peterr @ 83

TJ, LS, and others, you all might be interested in ABB’s post to and about her autistic brother. She’s posted about him before, from time to time, if you want more about their relationship and how she deals it all.

We are all changed by the people in our lives — however “healthy” or “normal” or whatever they are. We can choose to be changed for the better, or for the worse.

Thanks. I will also tell you that a very good friend of mine has 3 children. One is autistic, one is a Down’s Syndrome child, and the other is “normal”. My friend is a nurse. she loves all of her children dearly and equally. Her children love her dearly also.

You’re quite welcome. (And I think I sorted out your comments from mine.)

Question re the elusive f – i went up to tha t little box with the words “register” ‘login’etc
i registered. logged out. logged in and pasted facebook URL. Shouldn”t that work?

Phoenix Woman @ 98

I just posted this suggestion for ABB:

ORGANIZE THE KIDS.

That’s right — get with a bunch of progressive, smart kids in Missouri high schools and help them form their own groups to teach each other ACCURATE sex ed.

The beauty of this is that it also gets them into politics — and into progressive politics.

Missouri’s idiot governor may have inadvertently created a crop of hardcore junior progressive activists. ;-)

SnarKassanda and her friends could give them lessons.

oh, and i did log out of both facebook and FDL

ccmask @ 78

Just out from the AP – Another Republican bites the dust!

State House Rep. Arrested

Titusville police say they have arrested Florida State Rep. Robert
“Bob” Allen, of Merrit Island, on second degree misdemeanor charges
for soliciation for prostiution.

The park was under surveillance by a detail of undercover police
officers.

Officers say they noticed Allen acting suspicious as he went in and
out of the men’s restroom 3 times.

Minutes later, he solicited an undercover male officer inside the
restroom, offering to perform oral sex for $20.

Officers realized he was a public figure after the arrest.

CAW CAW

Yupper. Republican pols can survive hetero adultery, but they can’t survive being outed as gay or bi.

Even when they get pushed more-or-less-successfully back into the closet, as Tom DeLay protégé David Dreier was after outing, their careers never are the same: Dreier lost his bid to replace DeLay as House Majority Leader (the official reason was that he, whose voting record was actually to the right of DeLay’s, was somehow too ‘moderate’ — ‘moderate’ being the euphemism for ‘gay’).

Kathryn in MA @ 100

Question re the elusive f – i went up to tha t little box with the words “register” ‘login’etc
i registered. logged out. logged in and pasted facebook URL. Shouldn”t that work?

Did you get an email with a password for Wordpress, sounds like you did but..

got email, logged in the little box with password

Choice is choice. I’m no great friend to women or the feminist movement in general, but lets be honest here. I’ve known girls pimped out by their mothers, and seen them grow into severely damaged people who end up wards of the state. I’ve known people who were abandoned by their parents, and seen them grow into people who hate everything around them and watched them ruin everyone and everything they’ve touched. Most of them would have been better off aborted, and I know the rest of us would have been better off without the damage they’ve caused us.

That’s a nice sentiment Peterr, but it’s not really true. Most people will react to the same stimulus in the exact same way. There is very little choice in it the matter. People who lack tactual comfort as children will almost always grow into violent, uncaring adults. People under duress will almost always lash out at others. Pretty statements and platitudes must ultimately yield to psychology and science.

Elliott @ 104

Kathryn in MA @ 100

Question re the elusive f – i went up to tha t little box with the words “register” ‘login’etc
i registered. logged out. logged in and pasted facebook URL. Shouldn”t that work?

Did you get an email with a password for Wordpress, sounds like you did but..

What facebook url, the general one or your specific one, the one from your profile page, the teeny link at the bottom that says “public listing”?

soullite @ 106

Choice is choice. I’m no great friend to women or the feminist movement in general, but lets be honest here. I’ve known girls pimped out by their mothers, and seen them grow into severely damaged people who end up wards of the state. I’ve known people who were abandoned by their parents, and seen them grow into people who hate everything around them and watched them ruin everyone and everything they’ve touched. Most of them would have been better off aborted, and I know the rest of us would have been better off without the damage they’ve caused us.

That’s a nice sentiment Peterr, but it’s not really true. Most people will react to the same stimulus in the exact same way. There is very little choice in it the matter. People who lack tactual comfort as children will almost always grow into violent, uncaring adults. People under duress will almost always lash out at others. Pretty statements and platitudes must ultimately yield to psychology and science.

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say they would have been better off if they hadn’t been conceived?

testing again

Kathryn in MA @ 109

testing again

TA-DA!

lmjp1 @ 97

BigMitch @ 38

Funny you should ask.

The presumed Virgin Queen who has been alleged to be doing Shrub was romantically linked briefly to a Canadian diplomat, (last administration.)

What makes your question so timely is that she was seen playing golf today, and, told reporters –presumably speaking of her affection for sports –

Actually it was Peter McKay who is the current Minister of External Affairs. He is quite the joke in Canada. It’s funny that the media in the great white north had a field day with the story but the U.S media chose not to make mention of it.

What you can and can not say here at FDL is a puzzle.

YAY!

Heres the formula = to to little box on upper right margin that says META.
Hit register and enter bio info. Sign out. email will arrive with password.
Hit login in the META box and paste your personal facebook URL in lower space for facebook URL. (upper on right URL is for one’s blog)

Close out FDL and facebook a couple of times! re open and should work!

boxer @ 108

soullite @ 106

Choice is choice. I’m no great friend to women or the feminist movement in general, but lets be honest here. I’ve known girls pimped out by their mothers, and seen them grow into severely damaged people who end up wards of the state. I’ve known people who were abandoned by their parents, and seen them grow into people who hate everything around them and watched them ruin everyone and everything they’ve touched. Most of them would have been better off aborted, and I know the rest of us would have been better off without the damage they’ve caused us.

That’s a nice sentiment Peterr, but it’s not really true. Most people will react to the same stimulus in the exact same way. There is very little choice in it the matter. People who lack tactual comfort as children will almost always grow into violent, uncaring adults. People under duress will almost always lash out at others. Pretty statements and platitudes must ultimately yield to psychology and science.

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say they would have been better off if they hadn’t been conceived?

I think women should have control over their bodies, but these women did, and chose not to have an abortion. You’re not suggesting that we should decide who should or who should not have an abortion, are you?

soullite @ 106

Choice is choice. I’m no great friend to women or the feminist movement in general, but lets be honest here. I’ve known girls pimped out by their mothers, and seen them grow into severely damaged people who end up wards of the state. I’ve known people who were abandoned by their parents, and seen them grow into people who hate everything around them and watched them ruin everyone and everything they’ve touched. Most of them would have been better off aborted, and I know the rest of us would have been better off without the damage they’ve caused us.

That’s a nice sentiment Peterr, but it’s not really true. Most people will react to the same stimulus in the exact same way. There is very little choice in it the matter. People who lack tactual comfort as children will almost always grow into violent, uncaring adults. People under duress will almost always lash out at others. Pretty statements and platitudes must ultimately yield to psychology and science.

As long as we’re being honest here, I’m talking about psychology and science. I’m talking about providing new stimulus, to entice new reactions. You say you’ve known these women. Fine — did you ever offer any response to them other than “gosh, you’re a mess”?

“Almost always” is not always. In fact, if there were more professional psychological care, more family and neighborly concern, and more efforts made to reach out to the people you describe, “almost always” would be a lot less true.

Peterr @ 70

The right’s vision of education is centered on “what to think” while the rest of the world understands that “how to think” is what matters.

Nicely said, Peterr.

soullite @ 106

Choice is choice. I’m no great friend to women or the feminist movement in general, but lets be honest here. I’ve known girls pimped out by their mothers, and seen them grow into severely damaged people who end up wards of the state. I’ve known people who were abandoned by their parents, and seen them grow into people who hate everything around them and watched them ruin everyone and everything they’ve touched. Most of them would have been better off aborted, and I know the rest of us would have been better off without the damage they’ve caused us.

That’s a nice sentiment Peterr, but it’s not really true. Most people will react to the same stimulus in the exact same way. There is very little choice in it the matter. People who lack tactual comfort as children will almost always grow into violent, uncaring adults. People under duress will almost always lash out at others. Pretty statements and platitudes must ultimately yield to psychology and science.

I’ve known people who were abandoned by their parents, and seen them grow into people who hate everything around them and watched them ruin everyone and everything they’ve touched. Most of them would have been better off aborted, and I know the rest of us would have been better off without the damage they’ve caused us.”

I’m speechless. You are judging in “hindsight” as to the quality of a person’s behavior or lot in life or validity as to whether or not they should have been born?

Peterr, what “Response” was I to offer? I’m not a savior, and I have no such complex. To become involved with those people will only allow them to damage you. They should seek mental help from people they do not personally know. That’s a lesson learned from experience, yes. I was once foolish enough to believe that you could save another person. I’ve since learned that people save themselves, or they don’t get saved at all. You can help people in most circumstances, but mental illness isn’t one of them. You can not erase, or even mitigate, a lifetime of pain with one good relationship. They need to become stable on their own before they can enter into real, meaningful relationships with other people. until then, they will simply go through life creating that much more baggage in other people. Your suggestion seems to be to seek out some sort of co-dependent relationship with these people, or simply an enabling one. I would suggest that that is a very bad idea. But if you’re the sort of person who thinks it’s their job to rescue people, there’s little I could say to dissuade you.

Ultimately, by the time you reach the point where you understand that people are this damaged, they’ve usually made an enemy of you. No matter how good your intentions are, You can’t help people who hate you or those who you despise. That’s why you need to seek help from people outside of your social support system.

Almost always is on the order of 80-90%. You can cling onto whatever little evidence you can find that SOME people don’t react the same way means they do so out of choice, as opposed to mental defect or biological mutation. But at least it’s acknowledge that you choose to view it that way because you find it more comfortable. The same sciences that teach us about human responses also indicate the basic human response to cognitive dissonance. You’re displaying it right now.

Boxer, no. I’m suggesting that these people made a bad decision, likely out of some belief that they were doing the moral thing. You seem not to understand that you can both acknowledge that a choice is someone’s to make, and believe that they’ve made the wrong one. These are not contradictory beliefs unless you believe you have the right to force people to do what’s best for them. As far as I’m concerned, nature and society already has too heavy a finger on the scales, we don’t need the state weighting them even more heavily one way or another.

LS, I don’t understand. These people knew they didn’t want these children. There was no hindsight required.

soullite @ 117

Peterr, what “Response” was I to offer? I’m not a savior, and I have no such complex. To become involved with those people will only allow them to damage you. They should seek mental help from people they do not personally know. That’s a lesson learned from experience, yes. I was once foolish enough to believe that you could save another person. I’ve since learned that people save themselves, or they don’t get saved at all. You can help people in most circumstances, but mental illness isn’t one of them. You can not erase, or even mitigate, a lifetime of pain with one good relationship. They need to become stable on their own before they can enter into real, meaningful relationships with other people. until then, they will simply go through life creating that much more baggage in other people. Your suggestion seems to be to seek out some sort of co-dependent relationship with these people, or simply an enabling one. I would suggest that that is a very bad idea. But if you’re the sort of person who thinks it’s their job to rescue people, there’s little I could say to dissuade you.

Ultimately, by the time you reach the point where you understand that people are this damaged, they’ve usually made an enemy of you. No matter how good your intentions are, You can’t help people who hate you or those who you despise. That’s why you need to seek help from people outside of your social support system.

Almost always is on the order of 80-90%. You can cling onto whatever little evidence you can find that SOME people don’t react the same way means they do so out of choice, as opposed to mental defect or biological mutation. But at least it’s acknowledge that you choose to view it that way because you find it more comfortable. The same sciences that teach us about human responses also indicate the basic human response to cognitive dissonance. You’re displaying it right now.

But you are failing to see the end result of your logic. That is, that someone besides the women who is pregnant should make the decission on whether or not she has an abortion, since the decission doesn’t matter if it’s in hindsite.

My comment was meant as a reaction to the government protecting the fetus while living children suffer horribly. I can’t believe that any higher power has it in its plan to torture children.

My heart aches for my colleague and his foster son. To me, what happened is worse than the prisoners in Abu Gharib. And I can’t be glad that any child lived through that rather than being born at all.

I agree that preventing the conception is the ideal. But since we allow only licensed drivers on the road, and anyone to raise a child, there’s not much I can do about that.

soullite @ 117

Peterr, what “Response” was I to offer? I’m not a savior, and I have no such complex. To become involved with those people will only allow them to damage you. They should seek mental help from people they do not personally know. That’s a lesson learned from experience, yes. I was once foolish enough to believe that you could save another person. I’ve since learned that people save themselves, or they don’t get saved at all. You can help people in most circumstances, but mental illness isn’t one of them. You can not erase, or even mitigate, a lifetime of pain with one good relationship. They need to become stable on their own before they can enter into real, meaningful relationships with other people. until then, they will simply go through life creating that much more baggage in other people. Your suggestion seems to be to seek out some sort of co-dependent relationship with these people, or simply an enabling one. I would suggest that that is a very bad idea. But if you’re the sort of person who thinks it’s their job to rescue people, there’s little I could say to dissuade you.

Ultimately, by the time you reach the point where you understand that people are this damaged, they’ve usually made an enemy of you. No matter how good your intentions are, You can’t help people who hate you or those who you despise. That’s why you need to seek help from people outside of your social support system.

Almost always is on the order of 80-90%. You can cling onto whatever little evidence you can find that SOME people don’t react the same way means they do so out of choice, as opposed to mental defect or biological mutation. But at least it’s acknowledge that you choose to view it that way because you find it more comfortable. The same sciences that teach us about human responses also indicate the basic human response to cognitive dissonance. You’re displaying it right now.

But you are failing to see the end result of your logic. That is, that someone besides the women who is pregnant should make the decision on whether or not she has an abortion, since the decision doesn’t matter if it’s in hindsite.

Boxer, as I explained. That logic is flawed. I have to assume that you believe it’s your place to inflict your will on others if you believe that’s what’s best for them. I don’t. Without that fundamental belief, one will not automatically follow the other.

soullite @ 117

Peterr, what “Response” was I to offer? I’m not a savior, and I have no such complex. To become involved with those people will only allow them to damage you. They should seek mental help from people they do not personally know. That’s a lesson learned from experience, yes. I was once foolish enough to believe that you could save another person. I’ve since learned that people save themselves, or they don’t get saved at all. You can help people in most circumstances, but mental illness isn’t one of them. You can not erase, or even mitigate, a lifetime of pain with one good relationship. They need to become stable on their own before they can enter into real, meaningful relationships with other people. until then, they will simply go through life creating that much more baggage in other people. Your suggestion seems to be to seek out some sort of co-dependent relationship with these people, or simply an enabling one. I would suggest that that is a very bad idea. But if you’re the sort of person who thinks it’s their job to rescue people, there’s little I could say to dissuade you.

Ultimately, by the time you reach the point where you understand that people are this damaged, they’ve usually made an enemy of you. No matter how good your intentions are, You can’t help people who hate you or those who you despise. That’s why you need to seek help from people outside of your social support system.

Almost always is on the order of 80-90%. You can cling onto whatever little evidence you can find that SOME people don’t react the same way means they do so out of choice, as opposed to mental defect or biological mutation. But at least it’s acknowledge that you choose to view it that way because you find it more comfortable. The same sciences that teach us about human responses also indicate the basic human response to cognitive dissonance. You’re displaying it right now.

Sorry, I’m no savior, and didn’t say anything about “one good relationship” erasing a lifetime of pain. But I do know this: if no positive relationships are ever built, they you will be right.

Sorry, too, that you think people only save themselves. That’s a lesson that needs to be unlearned, in my humble opinion. Do you wear glasses? Better give thanks that others never learned that “lesson.”

Getting help outside your social support system is exactly what I was talking about.

You want to know what kind of responses you could have made? How about these two, just for starters: pointing the abused kids to the state abuse hotline, and supporting school boards who include mental health counsellors in the school budgets.

“It takes a village” gets a lot of mocking from the right wing, but it’s actually a pretty sound philosophy of community life. As a measure of community health, you can’t do much better than watch how a community cares for those in need.

soullite @ 119

LS, I don’t understand. These people knew they didn’t want these children. There was no hindsight required.

I give up. Go multiply. Get rid of the one’s you don’t want…keep the one’s you do.

Yeah…that’s the ticket.

soullite @ 106

Choice is choice. I’m no great friend to women or the feminist movement in general, but lets be honest here. I’ve known girls pimped out by their mothers, and seen them grow into severely damaged people who end up wards of the state. I’ve known people who were abandoned by their parents, and seen them grow into people who hate everything around them and watched them ruin everyone and everything they’ve touched. Most of them would have been better off aborted, and I know the rest of us would have been better off without the damage they’ve caused us.

That’s a nice sentiment Peterr, but it’s not really true. Most people will react to the same stimulus in the exact same way. There is very little choice in it the matter. People who lack tactual comfort as children will almost always grow into violent, uncaring adults. People under duress will almost always lash out at others. Pretty statements and platitudes must ultimately yield to psychology and science.

You know–almost everything in this comment sounds like something a rethug would say.

And you know what I want to say in return? Not only am I one of those “loosers” you describe, but there are many more like me living decent and honorable, albeit difficult lives.

I am not an uncaring adult, and I don’t (usually) unthinkingly lash out at others. But I will admit that I am lashing out at you–because you truly do deserve it. You are speaking as if you know something about you know not of which you speak, and in doing so, dehumanize those who you do not know anything about.

Peterr, it is a commonly accepted premise of mental health. People have to want help before they can be helped. Otherwise, you’re just talking passed them. A psychiatrist, psychologist, or therapist is a guide. You will always have to do the heavy lifting yourself.

Yes, positive relationships need to occur, but they can not happen until a person obtains some measure of mental health. They have to learn to trust BEFORE they can have a relationship, or that relationship will fail regardless of how trustworthy an individual is. You clearly won’t take my word for it, so go to your library and read some text books. I doubt you’ll accept this from those sources either, though. You want to believe what you want to believe. That doesn’t make you a bad person, it makes you human. It’s extremely rare that people alter their views to accept established facts.

soullite @ 127

Peterr, it is a commonly accepted premise of mental health. People have to want help before they can be helped. Otherwise, you’re just talking passed them. A psychiatrist, psychologist, or therapist is a guide. You will always have to do the heavy lifting yourself.

Yes, positive relationships need to occur, but they can not happen until a person obtains some measure of mental health. They have to learn to trust BEFORE they can have a relationship, or that relationship will fail regardless of how trustworthy an individual is. You clearly won’t take my word for it, so go to your library and read some text books. I doubt you’ll accept this from those sources either, though. You want to believe what you want to believe. That doesn’t make you a bad person, it makes you human. It’s extremely rare that people alter their views to accept established facts.

And if you read your precious textbooks, how is trust learned? By being treasured and nurtured by primary caregivers. In other words, if you put a baby in a sterile box (and there was a famous study done along this line which turned out to be abusively disastrous for the baby who was involved)) it learns that it cannot trust anyone.

Adults who have been subjected to this kind of abuse and neglect only learn to trust when they have the good fortune (and often through luck, not grit) to meet someone who will love them unconditionally. Be with them through thick and thin while they unlearn the lesson that you cannot trust anyone. etc.

If you think you got anywhere in this world entirely under your own steam, you fit the classic case of a narcissist–go look it up iyour precious textbooks.

And I am sorry for your delusion.

Woodhall, What you mean is that I make you angry because I challenge your cherished beliefs. On Digby’s site, they call me a purity troll for the exact same reasons. I’m probably much further to the left than you are, I just accept 50 years worth of work on child development and human social dynamics while you don’t. You’d rather believe what you want to believe. You’ll ignore Crutchfield, you’ll ignore Morris, you’ll ignore Milgram. But in doing so, understand that you’re no better than the creationist who wants to use moondust to prove that the world is only 6k years old.

People who challenge by “beliefs” do not make me angry. People who twist science and religion to dehumanize me and others like me do.

Wood, you learn trust by getting to the root of your issues and dealing with them. It takes years of therapy for people as damaged as the instances I listed in my initial post, there isn’t an easy option like hooking up with prince or princess charming. Some people will NEVER learn to trust, and some people are beyond hope, just as some people are too far gone to save on the surgical table. I can tell you that you don’t learn it by burying your problems until you destroy every good relationship you have. You won’t learn trust by dating, and you won’t have the necessary tools to deal with years of ‘failed’ relationships, which is almost inevitable in today’s culture. Even the best of us hurt the people we love sometimes, and people like I’ve spoken of won’t be able to handle it like the rest of us.

Wood, how am I twisting science? Can you really point to anything I’ve said that contradicts science?

Ed*ard Teller @ 8

I met Angela Davis in San Rafael, CA in October, 1968. She had charisma !!

Two years later, San Rafael came back into her life in a very negative way. Supposedly, Timothy Leary’s dentist hid her until she could be smuggled to the east coast.

I was a SF Bay Area Boy until ‘88 . . . Angela was a part of my growing up . . . and the girls and women I knew from ‘68-’88 made sure I knew who she was, and what she fought for.

I was SO fortunate, to hear her speak, with restraint AND conviction, on the CSU Sacramento campus, sometime in ‘91 or so.

The only time I’ve seen her in person.

A force. A pure force. She lived up to everything I had read about her and heard about her. Brillian, articulate, forceful. Compelling. An orator, a change agent.

I bow to her wow.

woodhall, it’s kind of inherent to my argument, if you’ve read my original post, that the people in question were severely abused or abandoned by their primary care-givers.

soullite @ 127

Peterr, it is a commonly accepted premise of mental health. People have to want help before they can be helped. Otherwise, you’re just talking passed them. A psychiatrist, psychologist, or therapist is a guide. You will always have to do the heavy lifting yourself.

Yes, positive relationships need to occur, but they can not happen until a person obtains some measure of mental health. They have to learn to trust BEFORE they can have a relationship, or that relationship will fail regardless of how trustworthy an individual is. You clearly won’t take my word for it, so go to your library and read some text books. I doubt you’ll accept this from those sources either, though. You want to believe what you want to believe. That doesn’t make you a bad person, it makes you human. It’s extremely rare that people alter their views to accept established facts.

Ah, yes, people have to want to be helped. True, but we also have to be able to recognize when someone is calling out for help. That, too, is what a psychiatrist, psychologist, or therapist is trained to do.

For some folks, especially those who have suffered the most severe abuse, they cannot verbalize or even describe their situation. Are they simply to be left to their own devices, even to die, because we could not see that somewhere deep down, they wanted to be helped?

Soullite, I’ve done extensive work in child development, and less extensive work in psychology. I’ve been to the library, read the books, and changed my thinking more than once on countless things. But if you accept that both biology and environment play a role in development, then why not accept that how each of us treats those in need is a part of that environmental influence?

How, pray tell, is a damaged person supposed to obtain “some measure of mental health” if everyone were to take your attitude and write them off?

Peterr, you have to understand who someone will listen to, and who they won’t. If a person has already learned to view me with suspicion, or if I’ve already shown hostility towards them, then I am not a person who lead them to seek help. Believe me, I’ve tried in my younger and more foolish days. The result was a belief similar to woodhall’s, that I believe that I’m better than that person and I became a focal point for their anger and hostility, causing me a non-trivial amount of damage. You have your choices to make, and I have mine. We will both make those choices based on our instincts, and our life experiences.

And yes, it’s sad that people rarely understand the help they need, but how much success have you ultimately had in leading them to the path of salvation? All you can do is make the suggestion, and that’s rarely enough. When they hear it enough, maybe. But trying to fulfill the role of therapist to someone you have a personal history with is a bad idea as far as I’m concerned.

Peterr, I don’t believe that I said otherwise. I’m merely telling you that the effect you seek to have on that person may not be the effect that you want to have. Clearly, everyone can’t ignore them, but if you have a personal interest in someone, it’s not a good idea to act on it. You’re right in saying that the issue is a bit murkier than I’m presenting it, of course it is. I have my own baggage of course, and there’s always going to be an issue as to when a person is really healthy enough to engage in a relationship. I don’t think trying to pick up at 23 with what should have been begun at 12 when there was more of a blank slate just is workable. Add to that years of abuse by people who should have loved them, and you’ll have a very unstable person who lacks the requisite coping skills to handle when a relationship goes bad. If you meet someone who needs help, and you don’t have a personal interest in them, then you should of course do something if you’re in a field that could be helpful. But when you’re dealing with people you already know, and already have dated, it’s best to exit from their lives as gracefully as possible. Both for you and them.

Peter, if you are still reading, would you contact me please? ABB and I are (truly and for real) allies in this fight. Almost simultaneously to you linking her post on this apostasy, Crooks & Liars linked mine – and we are quite literally Sisters in Arms here – working out the details of a direct citizen action, via email and phone calls; because we are on opposite sides of the state (so we have Jeff City flanked, if you want to think about it that way).

Anyway – we are trying to get something done, and we sure could use all the help we can get – contact me, please.

My blog is Blue Girl, Red State.

Yeah bring it on down here baby! I remember back in 67 when we they marched on our school all behind this movement and we was kids trying to get an education. Grown men thought they could intimidate us all. They did intimidate all but one who proceeded to kick the shit out of the badest MF of their group. Eventually their movement took over. That city went on to become the number one crime capital in the US in 04 and 05 beating out Detroit for the honors. You created and continue to perpetuate your own low life standards. You destroued the school system. You refuse to assimulate into society so condradulations. PS you are a joke and Angela is laughing out loud.

[Mod Note; the use of the generic pronoun, “you”, casts a wider net than perhaps you intended. Let’s try to be a little more specific next time]

dweezle – are you the same lowlife that left the rabidly and scary anti-black-folks comment on my site and got deleted and your IP sent on to the FBI, it was so vile?

Mod – we know damn well who he meant – kinda like I intuitively know when someone makes an “anti-heeb” remark. Thankfully, they are finding difficulty reproducing and are rapidly dying out. Long live hybrid vigor! (Says the Jew who married a Catholic and produced a historian/linguist, a med student and a nurse practitioner working for the ICRC…top that, racist scum).

MOD-Wow you did all that while living in a shelter? How is that racist when they are the facts . I know because I witnessed it. The grown men were Black Panther wanna bee’s. We were high school students. Mabey I got the year wrong it was 1969.