So, you saw Sicko last week. (Yes, you did — or you devoutly intend to see it. Oh yes.) And maybe you’re like the two New Jersey transit workers I overheard last weekend, discussing the movie animatedly — “And then Hillary took the money! — Can you believe that??” Or, maybe the movie really got your dander up, and you’re like these folks at a Dallas cinema last weekend:
When the credits rolled the audience filed out and into the bathrooms. At the urinals, my redneck friend couldn’t stop talking about the film, and I kept listening. He struck up a conversation with a random black man in his 40s standing next to him, and soon everyone was peeing and talking about just how fucked everything is.
I kept my distance, as we all finished and exited at the same time. Outside the restroom doors, the theater was in chaos. The entire Sicko audience had somehow formed an impromptu town hall meeting in front of the ladies room. I’ve never seen anything like it. This is Texas goddammit, not France or some liberal college campus. But here these people were, complete strangers from every walk of life talking excitedly about the movie. It was as if they simply couldn’t go home without doing something drastic about what they’d just seen. My redneck compadre and his new friend found their wives at the center of the group, while I lingered in the background waiting for my spouse to emerge.
The talk gradually centered around a core of 10 or 12 strangers in a cluster while the rest of us stood around them listening intently to this thing that seemed to be happening out of nowhere. The black gentleman engaged by my redneck in the restroom shouted for everyone’s attention. The conversation stopped instantly as all eyes in this group of 30 or 40 people were now on him. “If we just see this and do nothing about it,” he said, “then what’s the point? Something has to change.” There was silence, then the redneck’s wife started calling for email addresses. Suddenly everyone was scribbling down everyone else’s email, promising to get together and do something — though no one seemed to know quite what.
“… No one seemed to know quite what.” To whom do you write that check? What pro-health-care organization has the connections, the firepower, the bad-ass lobbyists buttonholing Congresscritters left and right on behalf of health-care-for-everyone?
Yeah, I don’t know either. And that’s a problem. Our health care activist infrastructure is fractured and weak. If we’re going to get anything done in the next two-to-four years, we better get it together.
Let’s start with our “incrementalist” friends — the folks who concentrate on covering all kids and strengthening Medicare. Families USA is the pre-eminent “health care consumer” lobbying group out there. Look at their front page: Lots on Medicaid and Medicare, but do you see one single solitary word about universal health care? How sad — a group with potentially great influence, relegated to fending off the GOP rear attacks on what we’ve already got. Is that how it has to be? I don’t believe it.
PS: What the hell is a “Families USA”, anyway? Is it animal, vegetable, or mineral? Is it a fundamentalist theme park?
Then there’s a group called the National Coalition on Health Care. They go with the Obama-esque “roundtable” model: Bring all your “stakeholders” together, and try to bang out a solution that makes as many people happy as possible. They’ve got ex-governors, CEOs and labor leaders on their board. They could be influential, but I don’t see them as a populist counter-balance to the insurance industry — that’s just not their thing. Right now they look an awful lot like a health care Concord Coalition: A bunch of smart, well-meaning, very earnest bipartisan-ish folks who will get rolled by Big Insurance and Big PhRMA when the deal goes down. (They do have useful stats and other information on their site, which I’ve used frequently.)
And over to the left, we’ve got Physicians for a National Health Program, a fine group of folks, with real research and clinical backgrounds. They wrote the single-payer health care bill that would sweep away the insurance companies and have the federal government pay for (but not deliver) all health care — HR 676. They run the SickoCure.org website, meant to direct the firehose of Sicko-inspired citizen activism toward getting more support for their bill. All well and good. Their bill has 78 co-sponsors (and rising) in the House, but bupkis in the Senate — not a single sponsor. Why does this well-credentialed group get so little traction with our decision-makers? The threat of insurance company resistance, no doubt — but that’s only part of the story.
Unfortunately, PNHP doesn’t play well with others: “As a matter of policy, PNHP expressly opposes what are sold as “gradual” steps towards single-payer.” Indeed, SickoCure.org warns,
Beware of Phony Universal Coverage: Many political candidates say they support “universal health care,” but usually this just means making more Americans insurance company customers. Real universal coverage means evicting insurance companies and establishing a national health program instead.
Translation: You’re either for us or against us. They may be right on the policy, but statements like that leave them on a political island. One can express skepticism for incremental plans while engaging, rather than vilifying, those working in good faith on other proposals — these folks, for instance, or John Edwards, or Barack Obama. I hope PNHP will reconsider that language — and more importantly, its underlying political strategy. But I’m not holding my breath.
Currently, PNHP is a proposal in search of a movement. With their purist attitude, I sincerely doubt PNHP has the organizing chops to come anywhere close to majorities in the House and Senate — even with Michael Moore and a wave of spontaneous citizenship in their favor. That’s not to say that supporting their effort is useless — anything but. We need ballast on the left side of this argument, especially now, 18 months from a new (Democratic!) administration. But folks who get involved in their effort need to know how to work in coalition and dialogue with others of good faith, who may not be willing to buy into the whole program. Neglecting or even shunning the building of coalitions leaves the entire movement weaker. PNHP (et al.) would be more influential, more powerful, and accomplish more good if they were at least at the table with other health care activist groups.
Now, as for those groups that do know something about how to do politics: I think it’s great that MoveOn is getting involved in Sicko Citizenship. Their brand of people-powered activism is exactly what the doctor ordered, so to speak. And remember that “health care for all” was the #1 priority of MoveOn members last year. They’re involved in getting folks to see the movie, and telling the presidential candidates to reject health insurer cash, which is great. But goodness, we’ve got 535 members of Congress to work on as well. It’s worthwhile, but still like trying to take down a mountain with a toothpick. So I assume that MoveOn has a comprehensive strategy in mind with regard to health care: What else have they got coming between now and 2009?
So what’s the right way to express Sicko Citizenship? Let’s keep in mind this quote by Dr. Quentin Young, actually one of the prime movers behind PNHP:
“I’m a recovering incrementalist,” says Quentin Young, M.D., national coordinator of Physicians for a National Health Program, a group advocating a single-payer system. He says incremental efforts are difficult for the public to understand, complicated for both providers and consumers to participate in, and subject to political shifts and the vicissitudes of the economy like those now threatening Medicaid programs in many states. “Incrementalism fosters disenchantment with reforms, or worse, the rejection of government solutions,” Young says.
I hear that. And as the flipside of this thought: Real transformation, real health care justice, real humanity, will capture the public’s imagination. We’ve got to advocate for something we understand, something we can relate to, something we’d actually want. As citizens, it’s not our job to make excuses for our dysfunctional politics, or our dysfunctional health care. It’s not our job to parrot policy buzzwords: “Quality, affordable, accessible blah blah blah”. At this point, we should unapologetically advocate for a principle, not a policy: People should not be denied the medical care they need. Ever. Pretty simple, huh? How can anyone of good conscience deny that?
We must decide our true north, and make our policymakers follow it. Yeah, we’ve got to know enough about policy to know when someone’s trying to put one over on us, and we need to be wary of gauzy rhetoric backed up by slender substance. But if we lead with a statement of our core principles now, we’ll have a standard by which to evaluate the process as it continues — and indeed, participate and shape it according to our values.
What are the next steps for the health care movement? Let ‘er rip in the comments.
Related posts:
- Carolyn Maloney: I’ll Vote for a Bill That Doesn’t Have a Public Plan
- The Pillars of a Robust Public Option
- Health Care Reform: Democrats Can Honor Their Legacy, America’s Will, and Also Win Elections
- Snowe Strikes Again, Universal Underinsurance
- Mitt Romney’s Idea of Health Care Reform: Giving Big Insurance Whatever They Want





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Zed
Zed!!
Hi Charley.
Speaking of Michael Moore … I heard he got into a verbal shouting match with Leslie Blitzer on The Situation Room today .. does anyone know if it is up on YouTube yet? .. or if C & L has it yet?
Yeah, screw incrementalism. We didn’t fight the Depression incrementally, we fought it by doing some bold-ass shit. I’m ready for some bold-ass boldness.
Cool, Charley! A Charles gets the Zed, I informed downstairs of your Post!!!
Why does Shortride come to mind?
Oh yeah, that. Despicable bastard.
That includes some bold-ass boldness like impeachment. Not to get too off-topic, but we ain’t gonna get universal health care until the GOP is good and discredited.
Well as one who is at the wrong end of the health care system, I do hope something happens so others do not follow the path I have followed. But you all have fast minds and better contacts, and will watch from the peanut gallery>
Hi Charley,
is there any plan to cover this intensively at YKos that you know of? Are you going?
OMG!!! michael moore’s smackdown of wolf blitzer was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!
keep your eyes open for the clip
I gave up my unaffordable Kaiser, and now I’m on the Schadenfreude Plan:
Citizens For Legitimate Government has received the ‘DC Madam’ phone records and is preparing the list for release. –Lori Price, CLG, 11:57 EDT 09 Jul 2007
!!!!
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 4
Speaking of Michael Moore … I heard he got into a verbal shouting match with Leslie Blitzer on The Situation Room today .. does anyone know if it is up on YouTube yet? .. or if C & L has it yet?
Scarecrow had a link @17 in the last thread.
A truly fine rant you don’t want to miss.
Link to Michael Moore here.
This would go a long way toward instituting socialized medicine in this country. It’s outrageous.
Iraq, Afghanistan costing $12 billion a month, Congress agency says
WASHINGTON (AP) — The boost in troop levels in Iraq has increased the cost of war there and in Afghanistan to $12 billion a month, and the total for Iraq alone is nearing a half-trillion dollars, congressional analysts say.
All told, Congress has appropriated $610 billion in war-related money since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror assaults, roughly the same as the war in Vietnam. Iraq alone has cost $450 billion.
The figures come from the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, which provides research and analysis to lawmakers.
http://www.boston.com/news/nat…..ency_says/
I think the path we should take is to expand Medicare. Do it in stages so that the impact isn’t disastrous but I really think that’s the best way to go.
I’m less convinced that it will happen though. There are too many ultra wealthy and ultra powerful forces opposed. I don’t think they will allow any kind of expansion of health care of any kind at all. I don’t know how you break that kind of power.
Universal coverage (or incrementalism) is a trap, in my opinion. It will simply make the already entrenched political superpowers (insurance, big pharma, etc.) richer and more powerful, make health care costs rise, and suck more money (for less return) from everyone’s pocket. It would make it that much more difficult, not less, to move to what we really need, which is universal health care.
I think PNHP is exactly correct in their stance. It may be a harder sell, but even that sell would be easier than trying to move from universal insurance coverage to universal health care.
Incrementalism moves us away from our goals, not toward them.
Homework for Californians
Lobby your Reps. to support SB 840 Single payer bill
and
Send a free fax for AB 1554 to prevent excessive profits
That pic of Moore cracks me up.
jayt @ 13
Scarecrow had a link @17 in the last thread.
A truly fine rant you don’t want to miss.
indeed!
I hope Olbermann is here tonight. And after that I’m going to watch “Weeds”. I need a few laughs.
greenwarrior @ 20
it’s worth watching twice
The Moore vid: Whew!!!
seepeesate @ 17
I agree at least 100%.
OT- Tweety just said he doesn’t like the word impeacment being thrown around because it suggests criminality and he doesn’t see any criminality.
KO up at bat!!!
noen @ 16
I think you are correct – Medicare model. Do it in stages.
It can happen. It’s just that for many, many years, money has spoken louder than voters, because most people only pay attention once every few years for a few hours at most, while the money is there day and night. That’s what we have to change. The money don’t mean nothin’ if they can’t get elected. Most politicians aren’t very bright, but they do understand that, eventually.
Crooks and Liars also has the Michael Moore video up.
Eureka Springs @ 25
However since Tweety sold his soul for Neutron Jack’s dough, what he say no mo go.
Gotta go watch Keith
Eureka Springs @ 25
He must be looking under the streetlamp instead of in the dark corners where our basic operating principles went missing.
CTuttle @ 26
KO up at bat!!!
hope he has Turley and John Dean on.
RevDeb — I see only one health care event at YKos. I see that they’re going to address the same challenges I’m bringing up here: “Among other questions, we will ask why the single-payer model, which many believe is the best plan to achieve universal high-quality healthcare with meaningful cost controls, continues to struggle for a seat at the table.”
I’m not going (having used up my good karma on going to Take Back America), but my two blogmates David and Bob are going to Chicago — the lucky dogs.
jayt @ 32
hope he has Turley and John Dean on.
Please keep the TV impaired informed.
Texas? Dang.
Can we get Michael Moore to do a film version of almost anything written by Glenn Greenwald?
jayt @ 32
hope he has Turley and John Dean on.
Both would be sweet! The Executive Privilege issue is on his platter tonite!!! *g*
Excellent post Charley. Your slogan is a good start. You can hang over good values on it. No hassles, no questions, no discrimination, no incentives to deny or discourage needed treatment, etc.
OK, greenwarrior and seepeesate: If PNHP is right in their approach, how do you make it happen politically? That’s the 16%-of-GDP question. My point is that I think their *political* tactics have been counterproductive and self-marginalizing.
Forget about policy for a second — we don’t even know what we’re doing in terms of a political strategy.
Richard Wolffe first, ugh.
talking about how the Iraqi govt has met precisely *zero* benchmarks, per an AP report.
says WH insiders tell him that there is no Plan “B”, after The Surge. He’s amazed. heh.
I still have not totally forgiven Michael Moore for supporting that Sock Puppet Ralph Nader. However Moore gets credit; he did verbally abuse and mock stealth neo-con Wolf Blitzer. It was sweet.
Michael will be lucky if he ever gets another invite to Wolfie’s show. Blitz should know better than throwing an open ended invitation to rant in front of a well honed buzz saw. Serves him right! Preach on brother Mike!!
Look, if libraries can run simply by issuing library cards, then health care can run by issuing health security cards. It would be like social security, only call it “Health Security.”
Just like libraries give you a choice of books, Health Security would give you a choice of doctors and hospitals. Just like libraries are funded by your local community, Health Security would be funded by your Federal Community.
Call it Your Federal Community – rather than Federal Government. And call it Health Security, funded by your Your Federal Community.
Everyone can get a Health Security Card. And with it you can get health care. No premiums to pay. No bills. No copays. Just go and get your care!
As for us providers it would lead to better sleep at night. We take the call, make the appointment, and spend our time providing services – rather than haggling with insurance companies and going nuts with forms and reviews and so on.
Everybody sleeps better at night. And we all stay well – or as well as can be, given that life always ends in death. But at least death will not sneak up more quickly on the poor and disadvantaged!
northwest jack @ 41
Au contraire — Wolf just announced Michael will continue this interview tomorrow — and they’re hyping this, because it’s entertaining.
i’m with PNHP.
i don’t want another medicare perscription drug program….
i don’t want a program that ends up being corporate welfare for the drug companies and the insurance industry.
i want medicare for all. it’s the right thing to do. it’s easy to understand…. and it’s affordable.
if we don’t go single payer – we can’t afford it. it’s an easier sell job when we can show it will be more efficient.
Wolf is kinkier than I thought!!
It is simply amazing that Micheal Gordon still has his position at the Times. Says a great deal about the NYT’s.
Glenn Greenwald “Three years after Judy Miller’s departure from that paper, the newspapers’s own Public Editor has scathingly pointed out what is glaringly obvious in plain sight — the defining practices of Judy Miller (blind, uncritical trust in the government’s and military’s sources) continue to shape and dominate much of the paper’s coverage about Iraq and issues related to Iran. Judy Miller, like Michael Gordon, was but a symbol, an extreme expression, of a rotted journalistic system still in place at the Times and most other establishment media outlets in this country.
That her co-writer and editors responsible for those profound failures continue not only to work at the Times, but to remain in charge of its war coverage using exactly the same methods that brought such shame to that paper, is as compelling evidence of the state of American journalism as one can imagine. “Judy Miller” is not just a disgraced journalist, but is also a method of journalism that extends far beyond her.”
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/index.html
Charley on the MTA @ 33
I’ll be on the lookout for them and will miss you. Start storing up your good karma for next year ;-)
Yes, this is a huge problem. We’ve got a catch 22 in that none of this will change unless/until we have federally funded elections and Pharma and the insurance companies will do their part to keep that from happening too.
mukei @ 35
Great Idea!
selise @ 43
When we pay the the most for the the least, it kinda just follows logic to figure out what the F*ck?!!! ;-)
Sometimes the impression is we are treating the symptom, not the cause. If we want things to change, whether it’s health care or just about anything, we need to seriously do something about public financing of elections. “Retail politics” is the source of the symptom. K Street is a curable cancer, and the patient (us) is very sick and pale.
Via An Inch at a Time, the blog of Susan Russell, President of Integrity (the national Episcopalian GLBT group)…
Click here for the video.
John Dean coming up on Keith’s show re executive privilege.
I am an MD and want single payer, basically medicare for all. But be careful what you wish for. Trading the insurance monopoly for the politicians make me uneasy. I have not heard what controls and protections would be in place to protect the public. Health care spending is and will continue to be rationed..who will decide? Do you want you coverage to depend on who won the last election? If the theocrats make a come-back, the first thing they would do is defund reproductive choice. How much should be spent on the termanilly ill elderly? On..and On
Ooh, Dean is gonna discuss EP with KO!!! *g*
When Wolfie asked Moore for talking points, he must have thought he was talking to Cheney (who controls Tim Russert)
RevDeb — not so sure none of this will change. I go with the assumption that AHIP will try to buy off every pol in sight. The grassroots can’t match them on money, but there’s no excuse for us not matching them on organization and people-power.
IT IS SIMPLE.
There is only ONE CANDIDATE running for President who has endorsed Universal Health Care, since way back in ancient history when he ran for President in 2004.
He was the only one using the terms “Universal Health Care” then. Nobody else had the courage. And people made fun of him. He was right on this issue then and he’s still right. He was right on Iraq too, but that’s fodder for a different forum.
Today, all his Democratic colleagues are using the terms, “Universal Health Care,” but are still selling insurance coverage from the corporate health care profiteers.
So here it is.
If you want Universal Single-Payer Health Care in this country, then support the only candidate who will get it done. SIMPLE!
Since nobody has bothered to mention his name, I’ll do it.
His name is Dennis Kucinich.
Dennis Kucinich
Dennis Kucinich
Dennis Kucinich
Dennis Kucinich
His Universal Health Care bill is HR-676
There!
If you really want it, there’s your answer.
If you just want to talk about it, well, keep talking.
If you really want Universal Health Care in this country – do something about it.
Send Dennis Kucinich TEN DOLLARS, or FIVE DLLARS,or ONE DOLLAR.
Look at Ron Paul. He has recieved more $$ than John Whore McCain, and people are noticing.
Or you can just keep talking.
And for those who will say, “That’s Socialized Medicine,” I say – WE ALREADY HAVE SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE. Just go to any Emergency Room and have a look at all the illegals in there waiting for their free socialized health care. And then look at your home-owner’s property taxes, like me, and see the “Hospital District Taxing Authority” assessment. I paid $1,300 for their free socialized health care last year. And I can’t afford insurance for myself. It would cost me almost two weeks wages to pay for my policy each month, which I decided to stop paying earlier this year.
So there.
Whatcha gonna do?
I know what I’m gonna do. I already sent my check.
Charley on the MTA @ 38
PNHP is mostly a policy shop.
political approaches can be incremental (if that’s what you want) without undermining the policy. for example, add children to medicare. or lower the age for medicare…
going against the insurance and drug companies will be tough. need to get other industries on our side (automobile? others? any employer who is now sick of paying for employees’ insurance?)
Charley,
One of the strongest points that stuck out for me from the movie was the interview with the Brit who pointed out that a poor, sick, fearful population was less likely to vote thus keeping themselves in that situation while there is more participation in the political process when people are well and well off. I hadn’t thought that particular angle through before.
In Canada universal single-payer health care began in one province (Saskatchewan) and spread to the nation. There was a doctor’s strike in Saskatchewan in opposition, but it was beaten back. At this point Moore in Sicko is exactly correct: the is no opposition (of consequence) to the present system — it is supported by left and right and center, as well as health care professionals. Weakening the system would be political suicide not only for a government or a Prime Minister, but for the political party with which they were affiliated.
Charley — what’s your take on the State Children’s Health Insurance Program and the proposals to fund it? There was an article in the NYT today on this.
Charley on the MTA @ 38
my sense is that for the people to get active behind universal health care, it would not be wise to have a complicated long-to-implement plan. if there’s a simple message for a simple care plan and a simple implementation strategy, i believe it’s more likely to take root and grow than a complicated concept and plan.
and, should we have elections that approximate fair in 2008, it should be easier to get movement on this issue.
personally, my own priorities for what needs to be fixed first don’t include universal health care. i believe the threats to democracy need to be addressed before other issues can be dealt with.
how much easier for us to demonstrate and protest and fight for what we want when we have habeas corpus. bring it back.
how much easier for us to rally for what we need when we don’t have corporate conglomerates of media. so the truth is actually reported. roll it back so we have it back.
how much easier to serve the needs of the people when we have fair elections. so that who we elect to serve our needs is actually sworn in. bring that back too.
Bustednuckles @ 7
well, I never….
.
…disagree with you re HoJo
nuQler ostrich @ 57
he’s a non-starter for me.
Keith using a Noxonian/Bush morphing clock measuring in time Bush turning into Nixon.
Hah.
Steve-AR @ 53
good points. right now we have a government that can’t do anything right.
what protections do you think are important for patients and for health care providers?
All the health care numbers you could ever need are here. This summary includes comparisons of the American health care system relative to other countries and between the states, plus data on the uninsured, rising health care costs, the woes of Medicare and Medicaid and more.
For all the details, see:
“SiCKO Required Reading: U.S. Health Care by the Numbers.”
I don’t know if Bill Kristol is losing his readers at Weekly Standard or losing his group of radical writers. He wrote three articles recently.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/…..9tvyhw.asp
Republicans running for the door..
Pre 9/11 Republicans
http://www.weeklystandard.com/…..9nkdmm.asp
http://www.weeklystandard.com/…..7qwrec.asp
I have a dumb hoppy of taking pics of my books. Here is John Deans book.
You have got that ALL wrong. Anyone who thinks that compromise with the existing insurance industry is going to lead to change is smoking something illegal.
PNHP has got it exactly right, and you have it pretty much all wrong.
The fact that PNHP can’t do it by themselves isn’t their fault… it’s the fault of people who think like you and have marginalized people who think like them for too long.
I’m not saying the specific people at PNHP deserve any special role…. but Edwards and Obama just want to work with the insurance companies as far as I know, when what we need to do is PUT AN END TO PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE and give everyone Medicare.
That’s not an extreme position anymore… and it really never has been.
People who work for insurers may still be processing claims for the government (they do already for Medicare)… but the profit motive needs to be sucked out of the management of the loss ratio and the payment for services.
John Dean: the witnesses *do* have to show up, then decide on their own when to not answer due to the Prez’s wishes.
If Taylor wants to testify, Bush needs a restraining order to keep her from testifying.
further you get away from direct conversation with the president, the weaker the case for exec privilege.
exec privilege letter from Fielding is clearly political.
if courts decide against the prez (could take years) *then* the witnesses will have to testify.
says “you show me a person who doesn’t want to testify about conversations with the president, that’s probably someone who shouldn’t be giving the prez advice.”
Join SPA – Single Payer America
RevDeb @ 64
He’s the candidate with the positions that match my opinions. He’s got the balls to go for the unadulterated solutions. Perhaps the progressive movement ought to rethink candidates that just exist to raise funds.
RevDeb @ 64
anti-choice — a little known fact in all the passionate underdog-worship
Quote: “he’s a non-starter for me.”
Then just keep talking, and wishing…
Like my grandma said, wish in one hand and crap in the other. You’ll see which one fills up first.
Steve-AR @ 53
I share many of your same concerns. I wish I had all the answers, I don’t. The problems are so many and so deep I wouldn’t know where to start. This country is sick in so many ways, an out of control military, a press that is little more than corporate shills, greed and corruption everywhere you looks. Where does one even start?
To put it bluntly, the political roadmap involves stuffing the mouths of the AMA with gold, and playing a game of divide-and-conquer to split the practitioner lobby from the insurance/pharma lobby.
Once it becomes clear that the target isn’t the people in scrubs, but the ones in suits, it becomes an easier task, because no-one has any affection for insurance and pharma executives.
Moore’s film is useful because it reduces the argument to principles: should people receive healthcare according to their needs, or their budgets? Once that’s decided — and it’s a good way to keep defenders of the status quo honest, by asking them which side they’re on — then a system can be built from that principle.
TJ @ 72
He is anti-choice and there are a couple of other issues where his position is a little around the bend for me.
Ha. My view of SCHIP? Of course it should be expanded, like, yesterday.
Ah yes, the objections are “philosophical and ideological.” Look, the GOP hates kids. They can say whatever they want, but the proof is in the pudding. We seriously need to open up a can of political whoop-ass on them for opposing this. They’re just daring us at this point.
BTW — Dennis Kucinich … OK, give me a scenario where ol’ Dennis becomes president. It had better be a real good story.
jayt @ 70
I was rolling with laughter with that last parting shot by Dean!!! *g*
Charley, I enjoyed your essay, but you seem to contradict yourself regarding PNHP. You take them to task for calling incrementalism phoney, while otherwise agreeing that it is.
I believe that outrage over the injustice of our system PLUS outrage at the inadequacy of any measure short of free universal health care will help fuel political action. ‘Twas Hillary’s insistence on mind-numbing incrementalism, no less than the Harry and Louise ads, that killed universal healthcare in 1993. Sicko constitutes a massive Harry and Louise ad against both the status quo and Clintonesque incremental quiet-the-rabble nonsolutions.
It is the incrementalists of purported good will, whom you’re so concerned about offending, who carry the burden of proof as to why any system that leaves even a shred of health care funding in for-profit hands is preferable to single-payer.
The only conceivable argument for incrementalism is to buffer the disruption in the lives of countless insurance and HMO workers who depend on our sick system for their mortgages. They will need support and training to pursue new livelihoods in, say, opium poppy cultivation. The vast majority of these people are not inherently evil but just getting by.
But the proper rejoinder is that whatever we do to help these people cannot, must not, be done at the expense of delaying universal, free health care for all Americans for even an instant.
CTuttle @ 80
Great News sorry I missed it on KO
dakine01 @ 78
I didn’t realize that. Perhaps it’s time for a letter to his campaign telling them that’s the difference between them and a check.
Like Enron, we need to get the middle men out. Go direct and we save a heap of money. Insurance is an idea whose time has past. You saw what all those years of being insured to the max got the Katrina homeowners. They had flood insurance in their policies and it wasn’t recognized.
Insurance is like the gambling house. The odds are with the house and you throw out a few crumbs, sometimes, to the suckers and the occasional winner-take-all for PR purposes. But the best part is NO REGULATIONS! Insurance companies are a lawless bunch of mobsters protected by the law.
So there’s my rant. I have way too much experience with medical insurance to be objective. I WANT CHANGE NOW!
Charley on the MTA @ 38
I don’t know snot about how do anything in capitol hill politics. But public opinion could be gained with relative ease. You just point out that having the public (after all, government equals the people, at least when the people care enough)”run” the show is good for the same reason that it’s good that government “runs” the electrical utilities, road-building, education, and other such-like things: it is to society’s benefit that everyone have these things, so it’s in our best interest in terms of ethics as well as efficiency to have society as a whole (us, the people) providing them.
Yes, I understand. I disagree in the long term (it’s the “self-marginalizing radicals” that have sparked and energized every social gain that I can think of), in the short term you may be right.
However, what’s the alternative? To adopt universal health insurance is even more counterproductive than any feather-ruffling I can think of. If we talk approvingly about plans of well-meaning folks (Edwards and Obama, for instance), then it might win friends but it also carries the risk that some form of their plans would actually be enacted — and that would be disastrous. Their plans are not only a step backward (the overall health care situation would remain roughly as it is now: rich people get great care, poor and middle-class people have problems getting access to care), but also strengthen our opponents hands such that it would be decades, at least, before we could recover from them.
I think it would be better, in terms of the real health (not to mention pocketbooks) of most people in the US, for us to maintain the current system rather than adopt some kind of universal health insurance. It would also make working toward universal health care an easier task, because we wouldn’t have strengthened the opponents so much. Thing the health insurance lobby is powerful now? Wait until they’re getting money for every man, woman, and child in the US.
oddmommy @ 73
Yes. He had a “conversion experience” when he first decided to run for pres. Sort of the opposite that Willard is doing now with the repigs. That doesn’t work for me. period.
I love John Dean both for his atonement(watergate) and wisdom on the unitary executive.
Perhaps we could get Canada to invade us.
Late to the ballgame, but I’ll try to catch up. Great post, and much needed. First off, there is a web ring for Progressive Healthcare Bloggers. We’re out there, we fly under the progressive radar for the most part, and we’re dying for readers and activists. Unsurprisingly, the wingnutters are over-represented and supported via the WSJ, Big Pharma and the healthcare insurance industry. In the medical blogging community, there are many physicians and nurses who treat patients purely as a means to an end – their paychecks. they are more than happy to shout over anyone who mentions universal healthcare, and they are vicious. We have been ruled under Medicare DRGs and managed care for over twenty years – and these docs and nurses have never been educated to practice using true therapeutic relationships with patients – they value efficiency, impersonal standardized treatments and as little patient contact as possible.
Now to the issues: the public is very confused about what “universal” refers to. Most think that it means insurance, and only a minority realize that there is a vast difference between universal health insurance and universal health care.
So first, we have to be clear about the terms and determine what our goals are, what our mission is and what strategy we wish to use to move toward meeting the goals. That requires clear communication, consensus building and lots of good will, grit and determination.
Robert Paehlke @ 60
Well then, maybe it should start here in Minnesota? I’m serious. There is strong support for expanding health care here by the DFL. We are known to be fairly liberal anyway. We are mostly Scandinavian with some Germans thrown in. If it is going to happen somewhere my bet would be here in Minn.
Has your Congressman sponsored HR-676?
Have you called him/her?
1-866-340-9281 toll-free capitol switchboard
Imagine if your Congresscritter started getting 300 calls a day in favor of HR-676.I’m just saying.
selise @ 66
I think the Canadians do a good job, not perfect, of rationing health care based on patient outcome and (a dirty word for fundies) science. As a example, the government has a board that regulates drug prices with the pharm industry. They look at R&D, prodution and other costs, factoring a very fair profit and set the price.
To me the biggest threat now is, if there is a huge public outcry for health care reform..it will be driven by big business and the insurance industry. Big business will dump their health cost onto the tax payer, it will be run through the insurance co’s, who will rake off -@30 off the top for management fees. (Medicare is ~%5). The situation is depressing. The Johnson admin. may have been the best hope and it didn’t happen.
I apologize if I’m repeating an exhausted meme, but what about the national nurses’ and health-care workers’ unions as intermediaries, and recipients of our donations???
SIEU seems to be a primary mover in organizing nurses and H/C workers.
cleter @ 87
Perhaps we could get Canada to invade us.
I think they’d be more likely to just invite us to come on up for a beer or two.
TJ @ 82
yeah, a lot of people don’t realize it. Just another example of how nothing can be taken at face value in this sound-bitten world we live in — not even the purported revolutionaries.
afik others have done as you suggest…..to the point where his closest advisors have spent a long time trying to nudge him in the, um, right direction. Also afik, they’ve had limited success. Good Catholic boy you know — perhaps took the dogma a bit more to heart than someone like rudy, for example.
OT
tonight on Charlie Rose is Jack Reed, who just got back from Iraq,
and a segment on the mummy of Queen Hatshepsut
RevDeb @ 86
works for me… ‘cuz he thought he was really being “pro-life” vs “anti-choice”. almost everyone one i’ve known who says they are “pro-life” is really anti-choice, anti-women, and anti-sex. but there are a few people who are really “pro-life” who are just confused that a fetus is a person. kucinich’s other beliefs were, i think, consistent with having been one of those…
in any event, i don’t think there is any worry about him undermining choice. i worry more about senator clinton.
mike @ 70
… and again, Mike goes on to make a very correct, very irrelevant point about the policy, when I’m talking about *politics*.
Oh dear, I’m marginalizing single-payer? Gosh, I’m sorry. As someone who’s not a single-payer fundamentalist, aren’t you marginalizing me? Oops, now we’re all marginal. QED.
Give me your best shot: Show me how single-payer becomes the 800-pound gorilla in the national health care debate, Mike. Give me a scenario.
RevDeb @ 59
That was “Red” Tony Benn, former mayor of London, and about as echt-socizialismus as you’re gonna find…
.
wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 93
I like your thinking, but there are a couple of wrinkles with it.
Nurses are very fragmented in their thinking and approach. The California Nurses Association and the SEIU only recently teamed up, and now the American Nurses’ Association collective bargaining arm is working with the SEIU – but not with the Cal Nurses Association as they have become competitors.
I think we’d be better served with an umbrella organization that isn’t directly affiliated with any particular labor or professional group and with a very broad membership purpose and base so as to create a universal marketing opportunity.
Steve-AR @ 53
Think of it this way — which entity are you more likely to be able to influence: a powerful oligarchy or elected politicians?
Politicians may disappoint us and do the wrong things (sometimes a lot of them), but at least we have some chance of changing their behavior. With powerful oligarchies, you have zero chance short of armed insurrection.
That said, all of your other points are well-taken and deserve due caution.
We need to move the insurance companies out of the sickness business. They are making many people sick. They are killing others. 180000 people died last year due to no coverage or poor coverage. Twenty years ago I paid $70 for perfect coverage for a family of four. I got good quality care. Remember when the only thing people really complained about was the arrogance of some of their docs. Yes, there were problems. But insurance companies were not making the amounts of money they are today. There was something called oversite. I guess my point is that we can fix health care if we just put people before the corporate structure.
And we need to do this at the same time we take care of the constitutional crisis in this country. A sick population cannot pay attention to a government that is trashing it’s country.
The insurance and drug companies be damned. They are the problem with the government. If we don’t back them down now nothing will get fixed. And then we take on the war machine.
And do you know the reason that employers paid for health care? Cause when they started to it was cheaper than giving raises. Why should they pay for our health care? They don’t pay for our house or car insurance.
The fewer entities that stand between you and your health care the better off you will be.
people who are really “pro-life” who are just confused that a fetus is a person.
A joke received from my mother…
There is a big controversy on the Jewish view of when life begins.
In Jewish tradition, the fetus is not considered viable until it
graduates from medical school.
all necessary apologies… Carry on.
ralphbon @ 80
How is it possible to meet these criteria. I don’t think you really mean that we can have today’s system up until X date, and then on X 1 we have a fully formed single payor system for all. What does a transition look like? Is is phased in over 10 years? Children first and others later? Limited basis services first and more later? I don’t see how one avoids some form of “incrementalism.” So perhaps Charley is suggesting be clear about the principle and goal, and then use the political process to sort out how you get there, step by step? I don’t know the answers; just asking questions.
From KO: Katie lost her mojo.
Mary McCurnin @ 102
Second that. Mary, dmac suggested that I contact you. I’m a healthcare blogger. Please let me know if there’s a way I can help you navigate the insurance problem du jour. My email addy is on the About page of my blog.
Here is Dennis Kucinich’s opinion on Abortion.
Quote: “The fact is that most Americans, including myself, are uncomfortable with abortions and feel there are too many of them. At the same time, the vast majority of Americans recognize that there are circumstances in which a woman and her doctor should be allowed to make this most difficult decision without government intervention. To return to the days when woman could self-abort without penalty, but to imprison doctors who would help them, seems senseless, especially recognizing that a new abortion law would likely become known as ‘The Abortions for the Rich-Only Bill.’”
noen @ 75
Pretty much sums up my feelings. I think until we can change the political landscape in Congress, any health care “reform” will be like the “Drug Benefit” just more corporate welfare and we loose. As Howie Klein says, the change starts at the local level and early involvement in the election cycle. Until we have enough people in Congress who we can trust, I am very nervous about “health care reform”.
If men are uncomfortable with abortions, they shouldn’t have one.
Or you could support one of ths candidates selling “Universal” insurance.
Your choice.
ccmask @ 105
I was Never Katie’s !!!!
Steve-AR @ 53
They don’t pay anything right now. I don’t see the downside here.
Mojo @ 111
707! You’re right.
Scarecrow @ 104
With HR 676 or a similar single payer program, Medicare could be incrementally expanded to add segments of the population until ultimately, everyone is covered. It would still allow for private “gold” insurance for elective procedures such as cosmetic surgery, procedures which aren’t deemed to be primary options but are still medically appropriate (when two or more treatment options are available, for example, and only one is covered in the reimbursement scheme).
The State Child Health Insurance Program would be a good first place to start to expand Medicare. Cover all children from birth to 18 years of age first, then add the 50-65 year old population, and continue on until all are covered. That allows the for profit insurance industry to transition and retrain and re-position workers and products, and it allows for the federal budget to be adjusted in order to fund the care. The elimination of the 25-35% of the administrative costs should put more money into play to fund direct healthcare services.
jayt @ 39
Associated Press story via Yahoo: Official: Iraq gov’t misses all targets
In another situation that Bush added terror to the mix, was when elderly Americans were purchasing their drugs from Canada, Bush had to protect them from unhealthy drugs that could kill them.
Funny.
Iraq had Universal HealthCare before Bush invaded.
Jane Hamsher @ 111
You maybe right..I don’t know the extent of coverage private insurance or work coverage..If its all gov. funding for everyone (which I am for) it will be all or nothing.
US Middle East Wars: Social Opposition and Political Impotence
Everywhere I visit from Copenhagen to Istanbul, Patagonia to Mexico City, journalists and academics, trade unionists and businesspeople, as well as ordinary citizens, inevitably ask me why the US public tolerates the killing of over a million Iraqis over the last two decades, and thousands of Afghans since 2001?
By James Petras
http://www.informationclearing…..e17985.htm
Kucinich
Great- so what’s my second choice after Denny claims his normal 1%?
ralphbon @ 81
No, actually I don’t agree with the characterization of incrementalism as “phony”, and I don’t think I said that at all. Massachusetts, for instance, has a plan with more holes than Swiss cheese, and which will be under considerable fiscal pressure going forward. And yet, some 120,000 have real health insurance that didn’t have it before, and they’re getting care. That’s not phony. Incomplete, flawed, possibly unsustainable — yes, all of the above. But not phony.
The question is this: Can single-payer — or any significant universal health care reform — succeed with a fractured health care movement? I don’t think it can. And the fact is that there are *many* people who, in good conscience, have decided they don’t think single-payer can pass our political system, so they work on other plans that they believe would be genuine improvements and have better political prospects.
I mean, come on — you’re not actually against SCHIP expansion simply because it’s not single-payer, are you? Oops — you may be an incrementalist.
I believe Hillary Clinton brought Healthy Kids to Florida about 8 or 9 years ago. I paid a $15 a month premium for my son’s coverage. I was a single Mom & it saved us for sure. That’s when (I think) the Republican’s started hating her. But at least she was out there trying.
i hold in my hand my medicare card.
it has my name, a number and valid to 05/2009 on the front.
on the back is a magnetic strip and words saying
‘please carry it when seeking medical or hospital
treatment,eye examinations by an optometrist,service at a medicare office or when having pharmaceutical benefits scheme(pbs)prescriptions filled.’
these are basically available to everyone and means tested.
private insurance is available for people who have the money so they don’t have to join a queue and want fancy private for profit hospitals.
pharma corp tries to hold the fed govt over a barrel re prescription drugs.it’s a
political hot potato here in oz.
dental treatment is not included.it was a state responsibility until this federal right wing govt defunded it a couple of years ago.
now–dentist rhymes with porsch.
take a look a what works elsewhere for ideas on what could be suitable for your situation.
you don’t have to reinvent the wheel.
ot.today i can’t get next hurrah,tpm or any of the blogs linked through this site.even when i try through google.i don’t know if this will post,it’s very iffy.
but whatever happens you are a credit to the best your country can be.
good on you.
nuQler ostrich @ 106
ok, I take it back. He’s in the same boat with Rudy after all — just rowing from the opposite direction.
One of the main reasons for the incrementalist approach is the very natural difficulty in seeing how a large change can be made with no intermediate steps.
When this bugaboo clamps onto the brain, remember that a country has changed its traffic from left-side to right-side right in the middle of a business day. (Sweden, if I remember correctly.) All the traffic stopped, literally, then gingerly changed sides of the street, and then restarted. It took 10 minutes or so.
Large step changes are possible.
nuQler ostrich @ 117
Iraq nationalized their oil in the 60’s.
Now Millions of Iraqi people are dead, and 4 million are now refugees…because of the Bush administration’s invasion. CRIMINAL
This Kos diary and comments has some really interesting links and information about the privatization of the army amongst other things:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/8/222024/0708
I am all for universal health care. One of the biggest questions I have is funding. How will costs be covered? Would a tax instead of an insurance premium be feasible? (probably epu’d but havent had a chance to read all the comments yet).
cleter @ 87
now yer talkin’ SENSE….. : )
Charley on the MTA @ 121
This is where I need more facts. The Bush Admin is characterizing expansion of SCHIP as government controlled health, socialized medicine, undermining private health insurance, etc. So how dows SCHIP really work, and how is it different from single payor?
Steve-AR @ 118
Actually, that’s not quite so. In most (all?) nations that have universal health care right now, there are still private doctors and whatnot you can go see if you want to. You’ll have to pay for them yourself, of course.
In practice, this means that wealthy people in those countries have access to a level of care that is out of reach to everyone else. Kinda like we have here the US. The difference is that everybody gets at least adequate care, rich or poor. Unlike what we have here.
Ralphbon, Ah’m with you! You got it, baby!
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many people work in the so called “healthcare” insurance industry? Because finding better work for those people is the only drawback to immediate single payor universal healthcare I can see. But hey, at least they’ll have healthcare while they look for work. Which is more than we did when Mr Conniptionfit got laid off 5 years ago.
How about a Medicare or Medicaid opt-in???!!
Instead of having a national health care program, allow private citizens or businesses opt in for government coverage. If we want true competition, this would either lead to government funded health care or it would force the Blues, the Cignas, and the others to compete with the government.
On the Obama types getting rolled by Big Pharma. I think that’s dead right. I spent this last weekend with some high exec types — the kind of person who 40 years ago guys like me looked down on because they couldn’t get into a good law school, much less a good grad school. Those were the days. But they aren’t our days any more. The smart types are mostly in business and they can run circles around most peopl, and get paid the big bucks to do it. This is a change that has just crept up on us.
We need a truly populist response to the health-care problem. The details will get sorted out by the experts in due time. The main thing is getting the principle of some kind of universal system established. There will be losers, and those who expect to be losers in this change will fight like hell to keep the status quo. And they have brains on their side.
Does anyone know if the Iraqi constitution has any healthcare guarantees
I seem to recall someone saying that they have a universal healthcare provision.
If that is the case that is a mighty club to wield
-GSD
nuQler ostrich @ 91
See, that’s what I’m talkin’ about. How do we make that happen?
Charley on the MTA @ 121
i suspect that massachusetts’ experience will build pressure towards a single payer system – because of cost issues. if i understand what’s happened so far, is that many of the people who need insurance can get it (a very, very good thing)… but young healthy people are not signing up. that’s going to force costs up.
Wow. Diary about Sybel Edmunds:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..4247/76292
Oklahoma kiddo @ 21
Laughter is the best medicine and WEEDS does it beautifully. Mr. Brat, who swore he’d never agree to upgrade our cable service cannot cope without that show.
We’re already paying for it.
Like I said earlier,just go to any ER and take a look.
Instead of going to a Dr. and getting services for – let’s say $100
They go to the Er where the same thing costs $8,000 And we all know that they don’t whip out their wallets and lay 8 grand on the counter before they split.
And property owners get the bill in their property taxes.
WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT!
Don’t ignore the key point that Sicko made. Rather than do as many have done, and focus on the problems of the uninsured, Michael Moore dedicated the bulk of the movie to the problems of people who have health insurance. That’s the key, and it’s the reason why we need to challenge those on our side who focus on incremental approaches to getting everyone covered. That simply won’t suffice, if the insurance companies can continue to pull stunts to avoid taking care of the sick.
dead last @ 133
The incentives for the for-profits continue to be max profits for investors. So where do they squeeze? On providers – physicians, nurses, hospitals, diagnostic testing – real risk of widgetizing service to the extent that patients loas all significant face time with their physicians and nurses – and that will impact outcomes, putting more pressure on patients to bear the burden of managing their own health services. But consumerism is a false setting – when patients are ill, they are not in positions of bargaining and negotiating power – they are vulnerable.
Great article on the inability of the anti-war crowd to challenge the radical Zionist who pushed our nation into Iraq.
http://www.informationclearing…..e17985.htm
“The Unopposed War Lobby
The US is the only country in the world where the peace movement is unwilling to recognize, publically condemn or oppose the major influential political and social institutions consistently supporting and promoting the US wars in the Middle East. The political power of the pro-Israel power configuration, led by the American Israel Political Affairs Committee (AIPAC), supported within the government by highly placed pro-Israel Congressional leaders and White House and Pentagon officials has been well documented in books and articles by leading journalists, scholars and former President Jimmy Carter. The Zionist Power Configuration (ZPC) has over two thousand full-time functionaries, more than 250,000 activists, over a thousand billionaire and multi-millionaire political donors who contribute funds both political parties. The ZPC secures 20% of the US foreign military aid budget for Israel, over 95% congressional support for Israel’s boycott and armed incursions in Gaza, invasion of Lebanon and preemptive military option against Iran.
The US invasion and occupation policy in Iraq, including the fabricated evidence justifying the invasion, was deeply influenced by top officials with long-standing loyalties and ties to Israel. Wolfowitz and Feith, numbers 2 and 3 in the Pentagon, are life-long Zionists, who lost security clearance early in their careers for handing over documents to Israel. Vice President Cheney’s chief foreign policy adviser in the planning of the Iraq invasion is Irving Lewis Liebowitz (‘Scooter Libby’). He is a protégé and long-time collaborator of Wolfowitz and a convicted felon.
Libby-Liebowitz committed perjury, defending the White House’s complicity in punishing officials critical of its Iraq war propaganda. Libby-Liebowitz received powerful political and financial support from the pro-Israel lobby during his trial. No sooner did he lose his appeal on his conviction on five counts of perjury, obstructing justice and lying, than the ZPC convinced President Bush to ‘commute’ his prison sentence, in effect freeing him from a 30 month prison sentence before he had served a day. While Democratic politicians and some peace leaders criticized President Bush, none dared hold responsible the pro-Israel lobby which pressured the White House.
The Presidents of the Major American Jewish Organizations (PMAJO) – numbering 52 – and their regional and local affiliates are the leading force transmitting Israel’s war agenda against Iran. The PMAJO, working closely with US-Israeli Congressman Rahm Emmanuel and leading Zionist Senators Charles Schumer and Joseph Lieberman, succeeded in eliminating a clause in the budget appropriation setting a date for the withdrawal for US troops from Iraq.”
nuQler ostrich @ 116
not funny at all.
New thread up.
Scarecrow @104: Nequals1@114 described a reasonable scenario. You’re right that I was being too simplistic in my “not one instant” line. But we (including me) should be clearer about our terminology.
An incremental, planned transition to universal single payer: good.
An “incremental” plan like Hillary’s “managed competition,” designed to perpetuate, not eliminate, for-profit health care financing (albeit with greater strictures and regulations, as a hedge against torches and pitchforks): bad.
So question 1 for an “incrementalist”: How will your plan help us transition to single-payer?
If the answer is, “But…this IS the plan,” then bring out the torches and pitchforks.
Nequals1 = thanks — could still use mechanics of SCHIP vs single payer model. How does the insurance fit in? Is it private? If so, why is Bush opposing expansion? None of this was clear in the NYT article. Something on your blog?
seepeesate @ 131
Actually, that’s not quite so. In most (all?) nations that have universal health care right now, there are still private doctors and whatnot you can go see if you want to. You’ll have to pay for them yourself, of course.
In practice, this means that wealthy people in those countries have access to a level of care that is out of reach to everyone else. Kinda like we have here the US. The difference is that everybody gets at least adequate care, rich or poor. Unlike what we have here.
I agree and that is a system that would work here. My hypothetical was only to show that without safeguards a persons health care could be at the mercy of the current political philosophy.
LS @ 138
Great Diary.
scarecrow-re 147-
the pbs show ‘now’ had a segment about it last friday…..i’m on dial-up, so you’ll have to find the link, sorry…….
I believe in single payer, like we see in France, which has really gine results at a reasonable price.
Here is one problem. Right now, about 30% of the health care dollar goes to administrative costs. Let’s suppose that we really need about a third of that, and the rest is wasted on insurance companies. I seem to recall that health care consumes about 15% of the GNP. If we get rid of the insurance-driven administrative costs, we are talking about 3% of the GNP. That is a boat-load of money, and a huge bunch of jobs.
That is going to be really disruptive. How will we deal with that disruption, given our selfish social structures?
What if PNHP is right? Incremental changes are like “campaign finance reform” — useless. They don’t do the job and they get in the way of the only real answer. We have to put the insurance profiteers out of business and make the government do its job of promoting the general welfare — providing health care as the single payer.
Or, “fine” results
Scarecrow @ 146
I haven’t followed it as closely because I’m not well-versed in children’s health. However, the Kaiser Daily Health Policy Report covers it very well, and here’s a link to the post I wrote which includes the latest coverage by Kaiser.
And thanks again for this morning’s link! The traffic has been steady, and many people are finding pandemic flu planning guides, social contract information and specific topic information via the search function. I’m tired from grinning all day! *g*
cleter @ 5
I’m torn between the many options and my usual response to situations like that is to wait for things to clarify over time. I know a lot of people don’t have health care, but that’s only their side of things. The government also has issues: debt out the wazoo, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, constitutional issues to solve and a zillion other lesser things.
So, how do we shift 1/7th of the economy to the government? That’s truly scary to me.
I’d like there to be a market-based solution, but I really can’t imagine one when health care is not usually a thing one chooses. There’s no real competition among providers and that gives them a semi-monopoly status with all the problems that entails.
So, where’s the in-between solution (a 3rd way solution, if you promise not to hit me)?
Sure, a single-payer system sounds good, but think of all the insurance employees who would suddenly be out of work. No, really! They’re not all mega-millionaires. You gonna hire ‘em? Is the government gonna buy up the health care policies and employees and just replace ownership and run it at a lower profit-rate (0%)?
Which presidential candidate’s proposals come close to that?
I sort of like any plan which would manage the shift with some regard for existing insurance industry employees as well as for all the other Americans who need better health care (coverage).
I’ll stop here, rather than endorsing one candidate’s plan over another. After all, as I said, I’m gonna remain undecided on a plan for now.
cleter @ 8
Well, that may be true, but you should want a health care system they would run in some future Repub administration without screwing it up. Remember, Dubya ain’t the last Repub president we’ll ever see.
Charley @121: Thanks for the response. I’m being a bit more of the rhetorician, and you’re more of the pragmatist, but we want the same thing.
I would only point out that one reason why the health care movement is, as you properly describe it, “fractured,” is the absence of a clear and powerful rallying cry. “Private health insurance for all” doesn’t cut it; “universal free health care” does. That’s how we rally a movement and help ensure that increments truly constitute increments and not merely schemes to sustain some measure of injustice.
We saw it with our group of 12 organized ala moveon.com plus two lost souls who wondered in alone. Sicko ain’t big in Indiana.
I liked it, but I wasn’t shocked at the message… Rich folks are getting richer by avoiding their social responsibilities and insurance companies are making obscene profits and overhead by screwing insured folks…WAKE UP, America! SELF INSURE!!!
About 30 years ago I was an association exec and our medical school colleges and universities were complaining that insurance premiums for medical schools were about to drive ________________(name your favorite TOP university with a medical school in this space)into insolvency. Like a good little exec, I called the best and the brightest to ponder this problem. The actual solution was and still is actually illegal to discuss in the US(can you believe that??!!), so we went fishing outside the coastal limits to conduct our meetings and discuss the problem. Today NO major medical school is insured by a US firm…all belong to (can’t tell you or I’d have to kill yah!)…unless you’d take me fishing and let me bring my heat for protection.
But, I digress… SELF INSURE, AMERICA!!!
Scarecrow – There are a couple arguments for incrementalism (by which I mean: add children 0-10, then start shrinking it 10 yrs at a time from both sides).
- it give the insurance companies time to build other businesses (supplemental, flying left-handed anvil policies…) so they’re not literally fighting for their lives right now
- it gives the gov’t time to re-arrange the way Medicare business is done, work out online medical records…
- the doomsayers will have a much harder time being credible
- it gives indoctrinated docs and nurses time to get used to it
The only argument they can use against it is “slippery slope”, and although it’s a greased slippery slope, that’s not a terribly strong argument. No parent will ever let it go once it has started.
I should note that a number of countries have universal *coverage* without being true single-payer systems: Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland … and some others. (Go read Ezra.) But they’re all heavily regulated and subsidized by the gov’t.
Charley on the MTA @ 98
Quick and snarky answer: It won’t until we have another decade or two of failed efforts to compromise with the insurance industry.
Long and honest answer: Courageous politicians stand up and point out that half way measures that leave an insurance industry infrastructure in place will never end the insurance industry full spectrum dominance of the Senate. Those politicians outline a vision, a policy, policy principles and stick to them. They fight. They are willing to lose. They are not afraid to lose because they understand that losing on principle is a bigger victory than winning by triangulation.
Courage and vision. That’s all it takes.
Much the same might be said about the impeachment struggle. Nothing is won until something big is ventured.
Much the same might be said about corporate capitalism and the problem of how we create a social democracy. Are we forbidden to fight for the rule of law simply because powerful corporate forces will oppose us?
Must we settle only for solutions that existing power brokers find acceptable? That’s what you seem to say, and I disagree.
I don’t think the victories you’ll win by that approach will be victories at all.
mike @ 161
That’s all? Well, gosh, there’s a lot of that in Congress, isn’t there? [off snark]
Respectfully, I don’t believe in courageous politicians. I can’t tell you the last time I’ve seen one. The only question is *whom* they’re afraid of. We need a populist health care movement so that they’re afraid of us.
Furthermore, you’ve actually defined “victory” as defeat. That’s my point. In the meantime, while things get rilly, rilly bad, people continue to die and be maimed from our current system.
I guess I don’t really like that scenario; not just because I find it unlikely, but because I find it kind of cruel. I don’t want to just venture: I want to win. And that takes a plan.
While we’re waiting for a nationwide health care solution (by the end of Obama/Clinton/Edwards’ first term at the very earliest), why not focus on efforts going on in our home states? Chances are your state legislature is either considering health care reform now or will be soon.
This allows a wide range of experimentation with different policy solutions. It also helps set the stage for a national plan. Most importantly, state plans have the potential to expand access to health care much more quickly than the gears of Congress can turn.
I’m a health care justice advocate, and I don’t care if PNHP wants to call me an incrementalist. What I do care about is more people getting comprehensive health care as soon as possible. Efficiency is nice, but some people simply can’t wait for a perfect solution.
hychka @ 158
Actually, I do have a hard time believing that. Outside of a crowded theater or other public forum, so it’s not normal 1st amendment limits. Must be some antique law from the McCarthy era??
I can’t believe this bit on Raw Story. http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0709.html
I love the cracks afterwards by perfect Lou “Airbrush Phony Smile” Dobbs and Cafferty. Poor “Wolf Blitzer” (I couldn’t make up a better, more bogus name for this wimpy character), he had a tough interview in which a guy called CNN out on its BS not once but twice. Ouch. He shouldn’t have to put up with that edgy truthy stuff. No fun. As Cafferty wisecracked, he doesn’t get paid enough. Very revealing as to how these guys think. It’s about the money. Not the truth. Our news media is dead. Morally dead. Brain dead.
MM is just right that these talking buttheads who say they report the news don’t ask the tough questions. They don’t think. You know which of the viable Democratic candidates really sat back and thought? Used his/her head before jumping on the bandwagon to rush into Iraq? Not Hillary and she still won’t even admit she was wrong – another bad reflection on her character if you ask me. Not Edwards either, though he’s trying to spin it into a “Look. I can learn! I’m not brain dead like the rest of them!” moment. Obama. He did. He stopped looked and listened while so many politicians and the media sprinted after Bush, Cheney, Rove, Gonzales and the rest of ‘em like lemmings over a giant, totally foreseeable cliff.
Really. I’ll tell you what’s Sicko. The stupidity of our politicians. The public is getting smarter. They were totally blindsided by a President so evil that he would sacrifice our national interests for partisan and petty personal gain. Unthinkable. But with the media behind these Republican shysters and Murdoch pumping his billions into the mess, the public bought it.
Well they ain’t buying it anymore. The polls show it. The Republicans – the ones still sleeping that is – can whine about it’s his fault, her fault, not my fault, blah blah blah, but America is waking up. Fox-Republican officials and politicians – mark my words, your political careers as you know them are finito.
Sorry for the rant. Sometimes the truth ain’t pertie, as Bush I’m sure would say.
Maybe we need to bring out former Sen. John Breaux to act on behalf of universal healthcare advocates. He is well respected on both sides and would find common ground with the insurance companies.
The insurance companies are the problem not the solution.
No Breaux, please. He’s a PhRMA shill.
Charley on the MTA @ 136
A few of us are thinking about this very problem.
Short answer: choose a few vulnerable Republican GOP congress critters, and create local organizations that will systematically contact people in the district and get them to call, badger, demonstrate, and work to unellect said vulnerable Republican Congress(Wo)man.
This is very doable. Environmental groups like Defenders of Wildlife did exact this to folks like Richard Pombo. Pombo, the environment’s Enemy Number One, was so rattled that he started doing ads to make it sound like he actually gave a flying frack about the environment.
And we beat the dirty son of a bitch.
This will work with health care as well, especially in purplish states like Ohio.
There’s a threat at Calitics, a California politics blog, going on right now on this topic. If you’re from our end of creation, by all means join in.
Maybe the writer here did not understood his redneck friend as well as he thought after a first impression.
Step one is to stop categorizing people like that. People either
-see the problem,
-are blind to it and can’t see it
-won’t see it
-are a party to it.
Redneck ain’t got nothing to do with it.
Charley on the MTA @ 98
Charley –
Here’s a nickel to get you off the MTA :-)
As another “recovering incrementalist”, I’d point out that you’re quoting what’s been the conventional wisdom for the last decade: that big reform won’t work. A year ago, I’d have agreed with you.
But a couple things I’ve seen over the last year or two have changed my mind about it. Counter to the conventional wisdom, it’s become clear to me that single payer has better politics than we’ve thought, for the following reasons:
People really do hate the insurance companies, and by reframing the debate to focus on them, rather than the character of reform works much better than focusing on complex alternatives.
Simplicity sells, and complexity does not. The white paper approach that The Conventionally Wise have been pushing for years hasn’t actually led to any action.
“Including all the stakeholders” doesn’t work when you are trying to satisfy a saboteur. Insurance companies like the way things are, and they don’t want to create a workable compromise.
Complex compromises have no political constituency. See: Immigration Bill Fiasco
The politics of this issue have changed. As soon as we recognize this, we can take proper advantage of it.
Charley on the MTA @ 162
Victory comes when you are WILLING to be defeated. Unwilling to sacrifice for your goals, people will perceive them for the shallow and weakly held beliefs that they are.
Principles are something you care about more than victory or defeat in the electoral arena.
If instead of ethical or moral principles like “health care for all Americans” you care first about power and electoral success, in the end you will have neither grand principles or power.
Political battles are fought first on a moral plane (the Republicans, some of them, understand that! … they’re just pretending, but they understand that idea) and only second on the level of raw power (or electoral success).
Bolsheviks and Machievellians believe in power first, agendas later. A politics that matters begins with an agenda that human beings actually care about, and fights for it through lean years and fat ones, working to change minds, and change power structures, by undermining the points of resistance from within. Such a structure is a cultural struggle, and depends on people who are willing to sacrifice short term victory for a longer term goal.
In regard to Wolf Blitzer’s interview with Michael Moore, here is part of my email to CNN’s Wolf Blitzer:
…
Michael asked you to apologize because you and the main stream media did not ask the difficult questions before we went to war in Iraq. I agree with Mr. Moore here also. I knew we had been bombing Iraq for 10 years, I knew about a million people died because of the embargo on Iraq. I knew Iraq was a little larger than Texas. And I read what a British soldier wrote that Iraq was the most observed piece of real estate in all of history and with the best technology in the world for 10 years and I didn’t feel we should be frightened by what they might do to the US. I read what the inspector Scott Ritter in Iraq was saying. I knew the countries bordering Iraq weren’t as frightened about WMD as was reported to the US. Did you? I think the main stream media was either bought off, blackmailed or afraid to tell the truth about that senseless war in Iraq. It deeply saddens me for all the people who have died in this war. It hurts me that millions are displaced because of this war. Mr. Bush said with in a week after 911 that this would be a long war and I feel he made it a long war on purpose to take civil rights away from us under the guise of a war president. We weren’t at war with Iraq very long. For the past 5 years Iraq has had a civil war going on that I believe would calm down if we left. After 5 years of being in Iraq the US is an occupier, a nation builder.
…
I do think the main stream media’s announcers should apologize to the American people. Maybe you could do for the American people and the US military families what Richard Clark did for the 911 victims families. Please think about this.
The problem is that PNHP really is right on the policy. No plan that leaves the private insurers in is as good as a plan that cuts them out. And I’m not so sure that it’s politically impossible to cut them out. Everyone except health insurers and perhaps pharma would benefit more from a single payor universal plan – including every other business in America.
I confess I say hold out for a good plan, because a bad plan will last a long, long time.
GordonM @ 159
There are a couple types of incrementalism. They type you’re arguing for is the type I like. Just enrol entire age blocks into a universal single payor plan.
The type I don’t like, because it sucks, is stuff that keeps private insurers in the mix.
Bah! I always miss when these things first get posted. I don’t know why, I read FDL so often.
Anywho, I’m glad you posted this on FDL Charley. We obviously think alike on health care – we should chat about it sometime.
The progressive movement, to me, is all about coalition building – uniting the people together in common causes. When I look at the health care crisis, I don’t just see the health care crisis: I see the education crisis, I see the crisis of the erosion of the working and middle classes.
One of things we, as a movement, have to focus on is SHOWING people how health care is making their property taxes go up, or causes their cities and towns to lay off teachers and close schools. I don’t know how it is in every state, but that’s certainly the case in Massachusetts.
These private companies, which are doing crappy jobs in covering people and have incentives to prevent people from getting the care t hey need, are overly expensive, greedy and all around bad. They aren’t getting people the treatment they need – and they’re costing our country more than any other in the world in terms of health care expenses – and we don’t even have 44 million Americans insured. The only way we’re going to change that is through grassroots organizing – and the only way to do that is to show people how health care costs effect every other public good we have. It’s only a matter of time before these costs force our system to go bankrupt.
This actually happened in Arlington which is in Tarrant County and is a suburb of Fort Worth. Fort Worth is even more conservative than Dallas so this is a real big deal!
I was born and raised there but now live in Dallas. For a while it was scary to drive just about anywhere in Texas with anything that was even remotely in support of Dems on your bumper. In Dallas it is much safer now. Fort Worth-not so much:-)
I have got to give it to the PNHP … to degrade them for a purist attitude or fearing that they wont make good coalition partners is missing their greatest strength. The movement for any major national reform is going to need a buttload of physicians on board as supporters. With PNHP on your side opponents can’t say ” the doctors don’t think it will work.”
The doctors are in the heart of the system, and I think I know why half-assed measures are repulsive to the PNHP – they know that anything but single payer is going to open up the box for insurance companies to get in even deeper – they know the enemy better than we do. As a nurse, I promise I think twice before I join up with a bunch of doctors. I am with them here.
Robert Paehlke @ 60
Canada is not so healthy as you might believe. In Canada we have our own “Sicko’ system. For instance, if you are injured at work we have our own government run workers compensation system. It is based on the same insurance model as the U.S. Injured workers are EXCLUDED from the Canada Health Act, leaving the workers comp government run insurance program completely in charge of a persons care. What is wrong with that? Well, if you are seriously injred and unable to go back to your job, the workers comp will try everything in their powwer to delay and deny medical and wage loss benefits. When they commit fraud, manipulation of medical evidence, and don’t send you for tests and therapy etc., then you are in fact a prisoner of the workers comp system. Why? because your legal right to charge the workers comp for a crime is also removed through legislation. Workers comp then has complete control of your life. The only guarantee is a life of pain and poverty enforced on you because they don’t want to pay the legislated benefits. Oh yes! Canada is a “sicko” country also. Thousands are committing suicide all across Canada because workers comp subjects the victim to an appeal process that drags out for years. In the meantime, you are not getting treated medically and suffer from poverty because workers comp does not pay while you await appeals. That is reserved only for workers comp employees. Discrimination, human rights abuses, crime, is all committed here in Canada. Unfortunately, it is not from a private for profit insurance company, it is at the hands of our own Provincial governments (Same as State government). What we all need acros ALL of North America is to remove ALL these insurance companies from the medical care field, everywhere. They only have one interest. Profit for themselves, to hell with a dying or disabled person. This is what needs to be changed and that cannot be accomplished until these insurance companies are removed PERMANENTLY from health care issues. They have shown they are not to be trusted in any way.
Michael Moore is right about the insurance companies. What he fails to realize is that it is more far reaching than anyone has considered. The blame lies in the insurance industry model of deny! deny! deny! to contain costs. Thus feathering their own nests at the expense of the sick and injured.
Injured workers in Canada support Michael Moores plan for Universal health care. We all need it. Visit the site below to see what we are doing to expose the psychopathic behaviour of these companies, whether they be private or government run, they are all the one and the same.
http://wcbcanada.com/modules/W…..1230#21230
We must come together as one strong voice to state publicly and loudly that our human rights are being abused for the sake of a few people who want the lavish lifestyle that can only be obtained by denying benefits to the sick and injured. NO MORE! The revolution in healthcare has begun! See also “The Canadian Injured Workers” website. I am sure the information you find there will help your cause in the U.S. http://www.ciws.ca
As Mr. moore said. “There are more of us than there are of them.”
“Our health care activist infrastructure is fractured and weak.”
And that ain’t the only thing. Everywhere around the progressive blogosphere, I see these whines of “Donate”! Yeah sure. If I was still a working stiff, I might waste a few bucks. Now, I wonder, are there no “Angels” in this opposition camp?
I cannot believe an entire national political party in the U.S. of A. has no support of anyone without money to spare to sponsor a blog, website, or cause. Really!
The First Thing to identify on this topic is the difference between health care, health insurance, and health access.
I can testify firsthand that the insurance industry sucks bigtime. When my aged mother collapsed and ended up in hospital in 2002, and I was back stateside two days later, she had already been transferred to ‘a nursing home’. Uh huh, how and why? NO answer. The hospital would not release any information to me, the only relative, protecting patient privacy, you know.
Anyway, no one at the nursing home could explain how she got there. I never saw a doctor in all the time she was there. But I did see an administrator and a human resources person, who advised me to cancel mojm’s private health insurance forthwith. Eh? Because “she needs physiotherapy and her benefits have already run out”. Cutting a long story short, she’d only been seriously ill (?) a very few days. After years of premiums. Hmmmm.
And aside from the personal factor, I learned of the interesting lurks of the industry in the state of Florida. Come in, lowball the prospective clientele, suck up a lot of customers. After the administrative overheads, woops! we’rew bankrupt.
Never mind, the scheme plays out this way: the parent company sends out letters to the former customers, sign with us and no change, sort of thing … oh wow, we get to keep our health insurance. Yeah. Only, it’s the SAME giant ripoff company, the mailing list has only changed hands. Et bloody cetera.
As an aside of insurance: note how the ripoff has happened in NOLA since Katrina: anywhere from 4X cover for individual home owners to 7X for small business operators, if any can cope with that …
Mom didn’t die in the first nursing home, despite falling out of a wheelchair. Thanks to Political Correctness, “we can’t restrain a patient” yeah, never mind she’s not ‘with it’ at the best of times now. But for me, with no diagnosis of why, but with a $14K bill from the hospital with the one=line itemisation of “tests”. For what? We can’t tell you. Blah.
It’s not only insurance, it’s the whole damn system. Some months back, I found a webpage about ‘inflation’ with a nice graph showing a dozen items that’d increased over the past 30 years. The biggest was health: 200X {not percentage, 200 times ) and a couple of items had actually gone down.
Remember that Rumsfeld’s lean mean high-tech fighting machine was supposed to solve Iraq — and we’re still there. Similarly, every high-tech medical test recommended is probably only there to spin some money into the system. My late wife nearly died because all the fancy tests revealed nothing — and an old-fashioned x-ray at a hospital emergency room showed an external colon tumor that led to an instant operation.
Technology is only as good as the medical practitioners than can cope with it — and insurance is only as good as coverage it purports to provide.
STFU says the insurance companies or we’ll cancel all your policies.
I had health care ins in my Fed govt job, and my wife also had ins from her auto plant job(hers was about 100% better than mine) then we retired, well I got a medical retirement and my wife’s job went to mexico, so both of us on my health ins. Spending just about $5K a year out of pocket for meds, Dr’s and various deductibles. Then we moved fairly close to a VA hospital(and I thought about using my 100% VA disability for health care) now my wife is covered under CHAMPVA and the VA hospital system, and I get 90% of my health care from the VA. Total cash outlay last year-$50 deductible for my wife,all meds free. Everything free for me, so canceled my health ins(that I was paying $225 a month for-just for the ins) no more $50 co pay for meds. They only thing necessary to get this, is a 100% disability, which I earned in Vietnam over 30 years ago. BUT my point is that the US already has(underfunded) a very good start on universal health care, they get the newest technology, access to all the best drugs(at negotiated prices with big pharma no less) and since the VA hospitals are quite often located near medical schools/teaching hospitals, lots of very good Dr’s. So we, as a country don’t really need to go to far to find out how a single payer insurance system would work, just look to the VA/CHAMPVA medical care systems to find out. Many many years ago my father was a member of the SIU(seamans international union) which had union hospitals located at major seaports all over the world-he was sent to England for his first hip replacement surgery, and NYC for his second.(the following is all according to the union POV, I don’t know if its true or not) The fedgov took over the union hospitals in the US and turned them into to public health hospitals, I do know that is what happened to the one in NYC(staten island) and also one in Chicago, but not the rest.
The point is that those hospitals that the govt is now running, and the VA system could serve as a core to universal health care. Medicare(dispite what bushco says about govt run programs, and how much better the “free market” is) spends 97% of all its money on health care, and only about 3% on the admin part of it. Does anyone think that a private company could do better? Think about it, the VA, if expanded enough, (and provided enough money) could indeed run health care. Just as a BTW, my wife uses CHAMPVA to see several different Dr’s,regular deductible,and just like regular health ins in every way. And the meds that she gets are not, repeat not, mostly generic, but top of the line(some are so new that the Dr’s don’t know about them) with the VA negotiating the price of the drugs(something that the REPIG congress refused to let medicare do when they came out with part D)
Interesting that the latest CNN piece on SICKO is a setup:
Their own producer, Ms. Chris Gajilan, fact checked the movie and gave it a clean bill of health. Now Gupta does a hit piece. Doesn’t CNN read their own reports? This is an obvious setup.
DrDave
I had never heard of PHNP before reading this blog today. The criticism i’ve heard so far has been they “don’t play well with others”. The “OTHERS” aren’t playing -they’re bloodsucking parasites. I’m not interested in playing , not at all. I’m ready to go to serious , scorched Earth war with the thieving health care system of this country – for me it is absolutely a matter of life and death.And that is not a figure of speech as I use it here and now. If PHNP is the most hard-headed ,extreme , and militant organization going right now – I’m gonna check out how to donate a few bucks and maybe some time to them. If anyone knows of another group that is ready to force things to happen – let mne know through these comments.
Incrementalism is a trap in which babies die. Sicko activism cannot be channeled in that direction, so let’s actually aim for policy that’s worth having.
http://crookedtimber.org/2007/…..#more-6020
Interesting analysis for parents of young children.