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	<title>Comments on: Whose America?</title>
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		<title>By: wagonjak</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801682</link>
		<dc:creator>wagonjak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 00:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801682</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Some Independence Day thoughts from great Americans…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered;…What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.” - Thomas Paine&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories.”&lt;br /&gt;
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Instead of the comforting rationale that merit breeds success and the successful have merit, a more rational approach would be to speculate that in our society wealth and power tend to accrue to those who are ruthless, cunning, avaricious, self-seeking, lacking in sympathy and compassion, subservient to authority and willing to abandon principle for material gain.” — Noam Chomsky&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Experience hath shewn that even under&lt;br /&gt;
the best forms of government those&lt;br /&gt;
entrusted with power have, in time, and&lt;br /&gt;
by slow operations, perverted it into&lt;br /&gt;
tyranny.” -Thomas Jefferson&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government.”&lt;br /&gt;
– Thomas Paine&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”&lt;br /&gt;
– John F. Kennedy&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the SUPREME INTERNATIONAL CRIME differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it.” — Abraham Lincoln&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;‘In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”&lt;br /&gt;
-George Orwell&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities” -Voltaire&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Accustomed to trample on the rights of others, you have lost the genius of your own independence and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises among you.”&lt;br /&gt;
-Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Edwardsville, IL, 1858&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“One of the biggest changes in politics in my lifetime is that the delusional is no longer marginal.” Bill Moyers&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Crime is contagious. If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law.” -Justice Louis D. Brandeis&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Few will have the greatness to bend history itself; but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation … It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is thus shaped. Each time a man [or woman] stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, [s/]he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.”&lt;br /&gt;
-Robert Kennedy&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some Independence Day thoughts from great Americans…</p>
<p>“Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered;…What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.” &#8211; Thomas Paine</p>
<p>“Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories.”<br />
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781</p>
<p>“Instead of the comforting rationale that merit breeds success and the successful have merit, a more rational approach would be to speculate that in our society wealth and power tend to accrue to those who are ruthless, cunning, avaricious, self-seeking, lacking in sympathy and compassion, subservient to authority and willing to abandon principle for material gain.” — Noam Chomsky</p>
<p>“Experience hath shewn that even under<br />
the best forms of government those<br />
entrusted with power have, in time, and<br />
by slow operations, perverted it into<br />
tyranny.” -Thomas Jefferson</p>
<p>“It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government.”<br />
– Thomas Paine</p>
<p>“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”<br />
– John F. Kennedy</p>
<p>“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”</p>
<p>“To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the SUPREME INTERNATIONAL CRIME differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.”</p>
<p>“This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it.” — Abraham Lincoln</p>
<p>‘In a time of universal deceit &#8211; telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”<br />
-George Orwell</p>
<p>“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities” -Voltaire</p>
<p>“Accustomed to trample on the rights of others, you have lost the genius of your own independence and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises among you.”<br />
-Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Edwardsville, IL, 1858</p>
<p>“One of the biggest changes in politics in my lifetime is that the delusional is no longer marginal.” Bill Moyers</p>
<p>“Crime is contagious. If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law.” -Justice Louis D. Brandeis</p>
<p>“Few will have the greatness to bend history itself; but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation … It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is thus shaped. Each time a man [or woman] stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, [s/]he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.”<br />
-Robert Kennedy</p>
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		<title>By: QuakerGirl</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801545</link>
		<dc:creator>QuakerGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 23:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801545</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why did we respond to JFK? He inspired us, both he and Jackie. The arts thrived, small experimental theatres cropped up everywhere, dance groups formed and thrived, education was taken seriously. We reached out to those who struggled. We volunteered our talents. We made sure children were served breakfast when they came to school, health information and clinics rapidly opened around the country and sports thrived. The air was alive with enthusiasm and we were ready to take on any challenge. Whatever the problem, we could solve it. When JFK was assassinated our hearts were ripped out. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have not seen one president since JFK who could inspire the way he and Jackie did. We hung on every word he spoke and we responded with excitement. I’m not glorifying him because he was assassinated, this is what I experienced. I won’t let anyone take that great moment away from me. I still hold it in my heart and remember it can be that way and I expect nothing less.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why did we respond to JFK? He inspired us, both he and Jackie. The arts thrived, small experimental theatres cropped up everywhere, dance groups formed and thrived, education was taken seriously. We reached out to those who struggled. We volunteered our talents. We made sure children were served breakfast when they came to school, health information and clinics rapidly opened around the country and sports thrived. The air was alive with enthusiasm and we were ready to take on any challenge. Whatever the problem, we could solve it. When JFK was assassinated our hearts were ripped out. </p>
<p>I have not seen one president since JFK who could inspire the way he and Jackie did. We hung on every word he spoke and we responded with excitement. I’m not glorifying him because he was assassinated, this is what I experienced. I won’t let anyone take that great moment away from me. I still hold it in my heart and remember it can be that way and I expect nothing less.</p>
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		<title>By: QuakerGirl</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801509</link>
		<dc:creator>QuakerGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 23:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801509</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-801105&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;boxer @ 106&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-801099&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;QuakerGirl @ 102&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nothing will change until these people are no longer able to meet their basic needs.  That’s where Walmart comes in.  As long as they can afford T.V.,(cheap) new clothes, and fast food, why would they change?   They don’t know there’s a better way to live.  Any dictator in a poor country who could provide these things would never loose power.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I saw that when I lived in Indonesia. People were so grateful for crumbs that they respected the person who gave them any measure of recognition. However, when things got really bad village justice kicked in and that is frightening. This played a major part in 1965 and it was bloody and terrifying. My Indonesian friends continue to fear a blood bath like that again. Every personal vendetta was used to identify a neighbor or colleague as “communist” to ensure they would be slaughtered. The Indonesians called it “iri harti” (jealous heart). The disenfranchised in our own country will react is a similar manner, US style. I saw an underlying anger among poor voters in Reno that could be unleashed under the right circumstances.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-801105"><em>boxer @ 106</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-801099"><em>QuakerGirl @ 102</em></a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Nothing will change until these people are no longer able to meet their basic needs.  That’s where Walmart comes in.  As long as they can afford T.V.,(cheap) new clothes, and fast food, why would they change?   They don’t know there’s a better way to live.  Any dictator in a poor country who could provide these things would never loose power.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I saw that when I lived in Indonesia. People were so grateful for crumbs that they respected the person who gave them any measure of recognition. However, when things got really bad village justice kicked in and that is frightening. This played a major part in 1965 and it was bloody and terrifying. My Indonesian friends continue to fear a blood bath like that again. Every personal vendetta was used to identify a neighbor or colleague as “communist” to ensure they would be slaughtered. The Indonesians called it “iri harti” (jealous heart). The disenfranchised in our own country will react is a similar manner, US style. I saw an underlying anger among poor voters in Reno that could be unleashed under the right circumstances.</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801300</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801300</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-800997&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Oklahoma kiddo @ 28&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-800992&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;james @ 25&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hardly a radical president to go along with your radical thoughts.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He’d call out the troops against strikers and people would think it’s a good idea because, well, Al Gore said so.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Very dangerous to spout radical ideas and then promote system people thinking they’ll implement the very ideas that would lead to their downfall.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes siree. Gore with his anti-pollution ideas is surely a friend to big business and corporate America. Boy howdy, you nailed me!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He didn’t have many anti-pollution ideas when he promised the people of a town in Ohio a waste facility wouldn’t be approved for federal permits because of its placement by a school and then quietly let the permits be issued along with Bubba “I killed welfare” Clinton.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Gore like evry other politician is very skilled at creating whatever persona is necessary to get himself elected so that he can do the bidding of his bidness masters.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Has he, for instance, divested himself of his Occidental Petroleum holdings? I haven’t seen that anywhere.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-800997"><em>Oklahoma kiddo @ 28</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-800992"><em>james @ 25</em></a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Hardly a radical president to go along with your radical thoughts.</p>
<p>He’d call out the troops against strikers and people would think it’s a good idea because, well, Al Gore said so.</p>
<p>Very dangerous to spout radical ideas and then promote system people thinking they’ll implement the very ideas that would lead to their downfall.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes siree. Gore with his anti-pollution ideas is surely a friend to big business and corporate America. Boy howdy, you nailed me!</p>
</blockquote>
<p>He didn’t have many anti-pollution ideas when he promised the people of a town in Ohio a waste facility wouldn’t be approved for federal permits because of its placement by a school and then quietly let the permits be issued along with Bubba “I killed welfare” Clinton.</p>
<p>Gore like evry other politician is very skilled at creating whatever persona is necessary to get himself elected so that he can do the bidding of his bidness masters.</p>
<p>Has he, for instance, divested himself of his Occidental Petroleum holdings? I haven’t seen that anywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: fdl reader</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801131</link>
		<dc:creator>fdl reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801131</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;tbsa ~ you and i make two (more) and i think many will be joining us now ~ i’m praying &amp; i won’t stop watching for the tipping point where we will have the numbers.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tbsa ~ you and i make two (more) and i think many will be joining us now ~ i’m praying &amp; i won’t stop watching for the tipping point where we will have the numbers.</p>
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		<title>By: fdl reader</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801127</link>
		<dc:creator>fdl reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801127</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;i have had this very funny feeling that Gore will not do anything until after the Nobel Prizes are announced: not that he’s going ‘after’ the prize or anything, it feels like it’s just modesty, and timing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;there’s also the concerts coming up this weekend that are *more* important to him than the presidency … which is why we hunger for his candidacy of course.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i have had this very funny feeling that Gore will not do anything until after the Nobel Prizes are announced: not that he’s going ‘after’ the prize or anything, it feels like it’s just modesty, and timing.</p>
<p>there’s also the concerts coming up this weekend that are *more* important to him than the presidency … which is why we hunger for his candidacy of course.</p>
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		<title>By: punaise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801123</link>
		<dc:creator>punaise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801123</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;new thread spotted upstairs&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>new thread spotted upstairs</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801118</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801118</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Joe Wilson’s response to Amy Goodmans question in regard to the Libby commutation.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Wilson “There is very little that the Bush administration does that surprises me.  The President is corrupt to the core and the Bush administration is corrupt from the top to the bottom”.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe Wilson’s response to Amy Goodmans question in regard to the Libby commutation.  </p>
<p>Wilson “There is very little that the Bush administration does that surprises me.  The President is corrupt to the core and the Bush administration is corrupt from the top to the bottom”.</p>
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		<title>By: LS</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801115</link>
		<dc:creator>LS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801115</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“In light of yesterday’s announcement by the President that he was commuting the prison sentence for Scooter Libby, it is imperative that Congress look into presidential authority to grant clemency, and how such power may be abused,” Conyers said in a statement released to RAW STORY Tuesday night. “Taken to its extreme, the use of such authority could completely circumvent the law enforcement process and prevent credible efforts to investigate wrongdoing in the executive branch.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“In light of yesterday’s announcement by the President that he was commuting the prison sentence for Scooter Libby, it is imperative that Congress look into presidential authority to grant clemency, and how such power may be abused,” Conyers said in a statement released to RAW STORY Tuesday night. “Taken to its extreme, the use of such authority could completely circumvent the law enforcement process and prevent credible efforts to investigate wrongdoing in the executive branch.”</p>
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		<title>By: tbsa</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801113</link>
		<dc:creator>tbsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/05/whose-america/#comment-801113</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-801084&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;fdl reader @ 91&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;tbsa @ 81&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i think we just tell them: we KNOW now and we tell them.  shame on them not to have explored all of the options.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and there seems to be general outrage developing now … so that’s a huge change.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i’m for faxes of tables and Mpeaches and shutting down the phone lines again and again until they act.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i’m for spending our contributions wisely: only on dems who DO something or candidates who vow to do something and sound right.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i’m thinking of signing up for dem mailing lists JUST so I can tell them all, when they solicit my money: NOT ONE PENNY UNTIL YOU DO SOMETHING about IMPEACHment AND IRAQ … the stakes will keep going up!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;carry on!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve already stopped supporting those who choose to sit on their hands in Congress quite a while ago.  The Blue America page is where I go to contribute to those I think are worthy of my money.  I make phone calls daily, my reps know where I stand, until and unless this happens in mass on a sustained basis I fear we’re stuck with these criminals until the election.  And even after the election we are stuck with the repuke media.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-801084"><em>fdl reader @ 91</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>tbsa @ 81</p>
<p>i think we just tell them: we KNOW now and we tell them.  shame on them not to have explored all of the options.</p>
<p>and there seems to be general outrage developing now … so that’s a huge change.</p>
<p>i’m for faxes of tables and Mpeaches and shutting down the phone lines again and again until they act.</p>
<p>i’m for spending our contributions wisely: only on dems who DO something or candidates who vow to do something and sound right.</p>
<p>i’m thinking of signing up for dem mailing lists JUST so I can tell them all, when they solicit my money: NOT ONE PENNY UNTIL YOU DO SOMETHING about IMPEACHment AND IRAQ … the stakes will keep going up!</p>
<p>carry on!</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’ve already stopped supporting those who choose to sit on their hands in Congress quite a while ago.  The Blue America page is where I go to contribute to those I think are worthy of my money.  I make phone calls daily, my reps know where I stand, until and unless this happens in mass on a sustained basis I fear we’re stuck with these criminals until the election.  And even after the election we are stuck with the repuke media.</p>
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