OK, so the hot dogs are all eaten and the dead fireworks splayed around the National Mall. We're still in Fourth of July mode (even if Happy Independence Day has been temporarily replaced by Happy Scooter Libby Day) and so it's still a good time to turn to the essence of our nation’s independence, the nature of freedom and what it means to be an American in the 21st century.
A collection of essays published last year goes a long way toward providing a look at how some of our predecessors—founders and slaves, lawyers and philosophers—have idealized, crafted and, ultimately, embodied the concept of being American.
Americanism: New Perspectives on the History of an Ideal, edited by Georgetown University professors Michael Kazin and Joseph McCartin, seeks, in part, to answer a fundamental question, one very much alive in current public debate:
Whose America?
We all want to lay claim to America. But as the authors in this volume show, the debate over what constitutes Americanism has raged since the founding of the nation. Today’s vitriolic partisan divide and the debate over immigration are part of a centuries-long dialogue by a country that, after its conscious self-creation, has sought over and over to reaffirm its identity.
And all too often, affirming that identity has meant denying others a part in it.
One of the book’s essays, “True Americanism: Progressive Era Intellectuals and the Problem of Liberal Nationalism,” overviews the efforts of turn-of-the-twentieth-century intellectuals to re-establish the concept of liberal democracy “on a civic foundation consistent with cultural pluralism.” As the essay’s author Jonathan Hansen asserts:
These thinkers all assumed that effective government requires a sense of community or “peoplehood.” They all recognized that political communities, like cultural communities, are constituted by boundaries and exclusions. The nation’s urgent challenge, as they saw it, was to articulate an ideal of American national identity capable of balancing the principles of individuality and cultural inclusiveness with a sense of civic solidarity.
These were rock-bed citizens like Justice Louis Brandeis who believed that “despite their strange customs and lack of English, many immigrants arrived in the new world ‘already truly American’—that is, already in harmony with American ideals.”
If their allegiance eroded on their arrival, the fault lay not with the newcomers but with the hosts’ failure to extend liberal democratic rights and privileges to strangers. Prejudice and industrial dependence, not cultural diversity, threatened American democracy.
Brandeis’s contemporary, education philosopher John Dewey, sought “to reconcile his enthusiasm for cultural diversity with the imperative of national cohesion.”
Dewey viewed cultural differences as a source not only of public enrichment but also of the civic solidarity required of industrial and political reform.
Brandeis, Dewey and others were responding to a tumult of bigoted reaction against the nation’s rapidly-shifting social, political and demographic changes wrought by an influx of immigrants, northern migration of African Americans, women’s suffrage, the shift from rural to industrial production and massive changes in finance and communications. And as often happens, a dominant group confronted with change responds with knee-jerk patriotism.
For every Eugene Debs decrying the nation’s yawning social disparity, there was a Henry Cabot Lodge erecting a model of national loyalty designed to quash dissent and bolster the faltering Anglo-American order.
Hansen, a Harvard University historian, sees the post-World War I era as delivering a body blow to the debate over American identity: “The nation that emerged from war in 1919 was arguably less tolerant of ethnic and racial minorities than at any time in its history.” In fact:
The ensuing Red Scare spawned conditions favorable to the passage of the Johnson-Reid Act in 1924, which, by establishing immigrant quotas based on national origin, effectively silenced the idea that cultural diversity was America’s greatest asset.
Although arguments over American identity emerged periodically throughout the next 50 years, it was only in the 1960s and 1970s that a national debate emerged over the issue of cultural diversity.
Hansen’s essay, one of several in Americanism to explore the efforts of the nation’s diverse individuals to define what it means to be American, offers critical historical grounding in the current debate over immigration. He shows that although the struggle was not easy for those who fought the forces seeking to build literal or symbolic walls around the nation, they stood strong.
They rejected the notion that patriotism entailed uncritical loyalty to the government in wartime and that patriotism and internationalism were incompatible.
And they did not lose hope. For in reclaiming a patriotism expansive enough to embrace a munificent vision, these Progressive-era thinkers also reclaimed a nation.
They did not see America’s jingoism and racism as a reason to give up on the idea of the nation itself. In a world in which political rights and legal protections are tied to national membership, their experience suggests, individuals who simply disdain nationalism of any sort commit their fate to the political right.
Or as we say at sports events and in classrooms around the country:
One nation. With liberty and justice for all.
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Ola
It’s time for the workers of America to do something. I have suggestions.
Way cool, that’s two today…
Tula!
le troiseme…
le cinquieme…
Thanks, Tula. :)
dakine01 @ 4
I see you’re collecting the zeds again. You go in spurts…*g*
I advocate radical action by the back bone of this nation (workers). Strike! And strike hard.
We’ll strike, shareholders! Watcha gonna do?
Louis Brandeis, another one of those fine Kentucky natives who’ve brought so much to this great nation. Too bad Toothless Mitch didn’t learn anything from him. One time when a politician may have been better served going to UL law instead of UK.
Tula:
Thank you for writing this. I wonder if unions couldn’t be transformed into “free market” negotiators where people form groups to contract directly with organizations. Instead of working as employers, they work as members of a contractor group.
Union experts are hired by these worker-directed groups, for want of a better name, to provide contract negotiation and other services that unions are expert in providing.
I think that the days of working as an employee under “at-will” conditions have to come to an end. The NLRB is so stripped, and workers are so oppressed across all work settings and industries, that something’s got to give.
Go to any mall and any supermarket, and you will see America. Shopping is the opiate of the people, and Bush told everyone to take that drug and they did, and they continue to…everyday. When the inability to shop reaches a tipping point, this country will change. Lately, that is what has been happening as the people struggle to make ends meet. They will ultimately fight for their fix.
Dear Studs we need you. Dear Andy where is your inspiration? Help us organize green, white, blue (collars almost faded into oblivion).
“Wealth (greed) of Nations”. Says it all.
Australian Defence Minister Brendan Nelson has admitted that securing oil supplies is a key factor behind the presence of Australian troops in Iraq.
He said maintaining “resource security” in the Middle East was a priority.
But PM John Howard has played down the comments, saying it was “stretching it a bit” to conclude that Australia’s Iraq involvement was motivated by oil.
The remarks are causing heated debate as the US-led Iraq coalition has avoided linking the war and oil.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asi.....272168.stm
OK kiddo - a good idea, but we’ve already seen even commenters at this blog worry about getting arrested or losing their jobs. Labor law in the US is so anti-worker compared with other countries that it’s much harder for such actions to be effective. Protests along the lines of the ones the Hispanic community organised are likely to be much more effective, at least at getting participation. They can’t arrest a million of you, especially not if participants are peaceful.
Here’s some other suggestions, especially for those reticent to give up their jobs/liberty/etc.
But will you Give Up One Thing?
Do you drink alcohol, or smoke, or buy a $3 coffee from Starbucks every day? Do you subscribe to cable TV, or a magazine?
Will you give up One Thing, and put the money you saved towards the progressive cause? Whether it’s ActBlue or a particular candidate or whatever… if 70% of the US population are with you, even one percent of that 70% is around 2 million people. You get my drift?
On a brighter note, when the business types are reading something like this: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....refer=home I start to feel some hope that even more people are waking up.
Australia doesn’t want a repeat of East Timor when their oil interest exploded in their face and the people rose up against the government.
It’s really not appropriate, ya know, to mention the oil thingee. I mean- ya can’t show up with thousands of tanks and aircraft and say “We’re the US of A- we’re here ta steal yer oil”. It just won’t do- ya have to talk about WOMD- and if that fails- “democracy”- but everyone KNOWS that yer there ta steal the oil.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 10
Now you touch on another reason the working class is where it is today: Before you can strike or get workers to strike, you have to get them to accept that their leadership is completely out of touch with them and that means the local leadership has to be confronted and outed as tools of their respective international leaders AND we have to be prepared for a total shutdown of government operations because, surpise, surprise, most union members today are municipal government workers who, in many cases, are prohibited from striking.
Then let’s talk about getting the soldiers on our side. In this case, conceivably, the “troops” that will be sent into the streets to confront the strikers will be mercs, contract workers for the Defense Department.
A general strike is what we needed back in the 70s when the assault on the working class was stepped up a couple of notches, but the Democratic leadership was too busy consorting with big business and big labor in allowing union jobs to be moved to right to work states and in providing tax breaks to transnational corporations that moved their manufacturing operations overseas, but were allowed to use transfer pricing in their accounting when it came time to pay their miniscule income taxes.
First try getting a few people to accept that unions are necessary and that a living wage is a necessity in this country. Once those battles are joined and won, and it won’t be easy, then maybe consciousness will be raised to a point where people, working people, will realize that it’s time to confront the system and everyone within it who opposes them.
Great post, as always, Tula.
As I was reading this, I overheard the following on MSNBC:
Dick Gephardt has endorsed Hillary Clinton for President.
So, the candidate in the last several elections who has courted the unions is going to endorse Clinton instead of Edwards (who has been a bit more supportive of unions than the Senator from NY). Interesting.
“We’re here ta help–give us yer oil!!
The Republican party understands only one thing. ‘Strength’. Workers. This nation is dependant upon you! Please support Al Gore for your next Democratic and labor friendly president. ;0)
Whose America?
I’ve said this on FDL before:
The US is the most multiethnic multicultural country on earth. It is the only country that reflects the world. Also, it is not surprising that Americans under 27 years old constitute the most ethnically diverse (and in some cases ethnically ambiguous) group on earth.
This is interesting from Reuters today
PARIS (Reuters) - As Europe’s workers take a few weeks of holiday this summer, their American colleagues will be lucky to get a few days off work, says a report published by the European Trade Union Institute.
Finland, followed by France, offers working people the most statutory vacation, at more than six weeks per year, the report, an international snapshot of how much paid leave people get by law and in practice in 21 countries, says.
The United States is the only country where employees have no statutory leave….
Slavery is not dead yet
Oklahoma kiddo @ 22
Hardly a radical president to go along with your radical thoughts.
He’d call out the troops against strikers and people would think it’s a good idea because, well, Al Gore said so.
Very dangerous to spout radical ideas and then promote system people thinking they’ll implement the very ideas that would lead to their downfall.
downunder girl @ 17
Downunder Girl -
I like the way you think. I call it the 2% solution. If you give up 2% from the use of your car, to turning off the air-conditioner, shopping less, stop using your credit card and pay cash (if you can’t keep a zero balance each month you can’t afford what you just purchased), etc. You don’t have to go cold turkey just start with a reasonable percent. It makes a gigantic difference. Remember when we supported Cesar Chavez in this way. I didn’t buy grapes and lettuce for years and I didn’t miss it.
Brandeis, Dewey, Debs, even Hansen struggling with important ideas:
Meanwhile this is what we get today from the press gaggle:
An incomprehensible mish-mash.
james @ 25
Yes siree. Gore with his anti-pollution ideas is surely a friend to big business and corporate America. Boy howdy, you nailed me!
nomolos @ 24
Excellent point. I’ve given presentations to visiting Europeans on U.S. working conditions, and they are totally shocked that workers here are not guaranteed a pension, not guaranteed health care, etc. And not just shocked. Appalled.
QuakerGirl…
Viva Cesar Chavez and Bobby Kennedy!!! ;0)
Ask any good capitalist how do you make money and they will tell you - ON OTHER PEOPLE’S LABOR! Many countries in Europe recognize the gigantic flaw in the premise of capitalism and corrected it by including social programs to benefit SOCIETY. The people are a society, collective group. Now why would such a concept be the enemy of capitalism? Hummm!
OT-Freddy’s been leaking down the pant leg for a looong time!http://rawstory.com/news/2007/ExWatergate_prober_Thompson_was_mole_for_0705.html
Some of the points made in “Sicko” make the European lifestyle very clear. They are highly productive, live longer and healthier lives, and get much more time off per year, plus assistance for childcare, pensions…
If you haven’t seen the movie, do so. It’s a very fine film, making very clear the incredible flaws in US business practices.
There are three groups of peoples who have the power to steer this country in the proper direction for decades. Women, labor and retired folks.
landofthefree @ 20:
Hillary has been shoring up the union vote, that’s for sure. It’s looking more and more like Hillary might get this nomination, in spite of all. The 2008 presidential election is the Dems to lose.
The Repugs have no one who can win in 2008. And the smart ones know that they’re f*cked in that respect:
McCain: His stand on Iraq and Immigration have sunk him. And let’s face it, he’s too old.
Giuliani: “America’s Mayor’s” pre- and post-9/11 leadership will explode in his face as his record becomes more disclosed, thanks in part to NYC firefighters who are campaigning against him. His family situation and dalliance with Kerik, plus his resigning from the Iraq Study Group for more lucrative escapades will also do him in.
Romney: His flip-flops on choice and same-sex marriage from his time as governor of MA aren’t admirable. Plus, let’s face it (and this is politically incorrect): (evangelical) Americans are not ready to elect a Mormon for president.
Fred Thompson? That’s a joke.
Gingrich? Ditto.
Any other (faintly) so-called Repug “dark horses”?
Now if Bloomberg jumps in there, that might be trouble for Dems. He is a defacto moderate Dem, in my opinion. He’ll draw more votes from the Dems than from the Repugs. The way Nader did from Gore in 2000.
OT: Thom Hartman’s article at CommonDreams is a must-read. It really connects the dots on the Libby pardon.
wigwam @ 36
thom harman is incredible…the most passionate constitutional schalar I have heard or read
I hope someone here at the lake asks him to guest blog one day…it would be great for him and for us
Gooper candidates don’t look great at the moment- but they’ll nominate SOMEONE- and then call in “makeup” to cover up the pustules, gaping oozing wounds, missing limbs, and other minor cosmetic problems. By the general election- he will have gotten the Billy Graghamcracker makover as well and will have Jesus in his corner. Tough to beat.
Biodun @ 35
My take on Bloomberg is that he has too much money. ;0)
Billy Graghamcracker has been supplying Jesus to gooper presidential candidates for years. Don’t think he’s ever done a dem.
Since nothing else seems to be working Democrats, try something “radical”, kinda like Al Gore and Michael Moore do.
Biodun - I can’t help but wonder what nice promises Gephardt got from Sen. Clinton. After all, Edwards is leading in IA polls, and I think most experts think Edwards is the one who could really upset the Democratic party applecart - all the attention & expectations between the Obama and Clinton camps, meanwhile Edwards is slowly gaining more support from the caucus/primary voters in key states.
Gephardt’s endorsement will help Hillary Clinton in IA. It may also help bleed some union support from Edwards. I’m guessing that if Hillary Clinton does get the nomination and Presidency, Gephardt will play a key role. Heck, maybe she’ll even choose him as a veep (not the smartest move IMO - she’d be smarter to go with Clark).
You’re right - the GOP is in terrible disarray. I really thought the lustre will fall off Giuliani, Romney, Thompson, and McCain would be the last one standing. He still has time to get it together, and is still my guess for the Republican nominee. (Bloomberg would make things interesting - his latest party was Republican, right? Getting back to topic, how is he viewed regarding labor?)
I advocate a cap on wealth.
dakine01 @ 4
Get to work!
I haven’t gotten much traction with views toward a different model of worker organization. I’d love some feedback, though. What are your thoughts about unions possibly transforming themselves into worker-directed contract group representatives?
Is it possible to just work around the NLRB problems and traditional unionization processes and as organized worker groups, directly contract with companies and negotiate for salaries, benefits, workplace conditions and the like?
Oliver Stone hits the nail on the head when referring to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
“I wish the Iranian people well, and only hope their experience with an inept, rigid ideologue president goes better than ours.”
-GSD
rwcole @ 40
From Wikipedia:
Politically, Graham has been a registered member of the Democratic Party, although in recent years he has adopted a flexible position, choosing to cast his vote with either party, depending on which he considers most appropriate at the time. He visited with Dwight Eisenhower, Lyndon B. Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, and the Bush family.[citation needed] He enjoyed a friendship with Nixon. Graham urged his Protestant evangelicals worried about the candidacy of the Roman Catholic John Fitzgerald Kennedy to support Nixon in the 1960 campaign for president.[citation needed] After Nixon’s 1968 victorious presidential campaign, Graham was an advisor, visiting the White House, leading the private church services that the president organized there.[citation needed] Two days before the 2000 presidential election, Graham spoke at a prayer breakfast in Florida with George W. Bush in attendance but did not officially endorse him.[citation needed]
N=1 @ 45
Radical (common sense) stuff. And I am liking it. ;0)
Raven
Not sure what you mean. Some unions- like the longshore workers- have a union hiring hall. If you’re a stevedore company and want to hire five people for the day- the union sends em- you get no say over who gets sent. Is that what you mean?
Can you imagine if Wal-Mart workers went on strike? What would we do?
Rev. Billy G. gave the Murdering Chimp and his Overlord, Shotgun Dick his tacit approval on the eve of the election.
Nice work Rev. Billy…How’s that working out for you?
-GSD
Oklahoma kiddo @ 35
Let me give you the lowdown on two of these groups. Many women are single parents and often take on the lion’s share of supporting their families or they are a working mom supplementing their husband’s income. She gives birth to the children, nurses them, rears them, makes certain they are fed healthy foods, searches out good healthcare for her little ones, cleans the house, does the massive laundry to name a few of her additional duties to working full-time. These are not women with leisure time. She gets about five hours sleep and is under heavy stress. God forbid she has a handicapped child and/or aging parents to add to this.
The other are seniors. Most seniors have healthcare issues. They are no longer twenty-five and heal quickly from injuries or illness. Most of their time is spent struggling with their retirement that is quickly be depleted by medical and high cost of living. When they go out to get a job to supplement their income they get reduced to minimum wage jobs. (My Mom was an accountant working full-time until she was in her seventies. When she retired and looked for a part-time job she was automatically reduced to minimum wage while using her same skills. The employer actually told her she had no choice now that she was retired. Her response was, “I’ll string beads first!”. And, she did.)
Under Medicare Plan D seniors with a serious disease such as cancer saw their medications go from $30.00 per month to $1,600.00 per month. Yep. That is not a typo. Both these groups are just beat down. It is not easy for them to sustain a marching protest or letters to the editor.
I’ll repeat what Germaine Greer once said to an affluent group of women in Marin County - You are the people with the leisure time and greater energy so you must take up the hardship that your sisters in a lesser position cannot undertake.
Something I really dislike: “Right to work”.
It was Billy Graghamcracker who met with the prodigal Bush son and gave him a makeover for the fundies. With Billy Graghamcracker- Bush would be a harmless native of Dallas, Texas.
landofthefree @ 42:
My own preference is for an Edwards/Obama ticket: Prez/VPrez.
Bloomberg’s relation to labor? Dunno, but there’s this:
rwcole @ 49
No, I was just ribbing dakine for getting so many zeds! I stay out of union arguments, moving from Illinois to Georgia sort of takes the steam out of union activity.
rwcole @ 54
I’m not defending him. The only thing he ever did for me was get me a couple hours off duty to listen to his dribble in Vietnam!
Spread the wealth. They’re not going to give it to you. You’ve got to take it!
I’ll go with Gore/Edwards, Clark, Kucinich, Richardson, Pelosi, or Biden.
Wexler to introduce censure measure.
As a teacher, who is supposed to repeat the Pledge of Allegiance every day, I don’t, except for those last six words that I say loudly and proudly: With liberty and justice for all.
Thanks for an uplifting article in a dark time…it seems that the bush nightmare clan is really just pushing and pushing and pushing to divide Americans along so many lines, ideological, religious, ancestral, intelligence, and the line that separates sanity and survival from insanity and slavery.
And I have justed started anew again, another 150 new students in a new school year here in the overcrowded, year-round inner-city school I work in, and see all these wonderful new, intellectually hungry children, pushing at the limits of their understanding, pushing towards their becoming America.
Knowing that there were those before us who fought for plurality in a desperate America of greed and bigotry. Knowing of the violence that the labor unions suffered to gain basic human dignity and knowing that we still have so much to do, and to repair, still…
I keep saying it’s darkest before dawn, but boy, when will this night(mare) ever end?
Tula Connell @ 29
Fabulous article about America and community, tula. Thank you.
have you ever addressed the “mirage” of US vacation benefits?
That is, the company where I worked really touted the “generous” vacation time–four weeks. But if you ever actually took any time off, and any time of year was a bad time of year, you really heard about it. Suffered dirty looks and burnt brownie points for actually, you know, vacationing.
We’re all about exploitation, even of ourselves…
“I keep saying it’s darkest before dawn, but boy, when will this night(mare) ever end?”
Despite all the darkness there has to be an invisible sun.
-GSD
To quote Woody: ” some are wonderin’ If this land’s still made for you and me“
Something to think about from the Constitutional Convention of 1787:
“There is one security in this case to which gentlemen may not have adverted: if the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds to believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty; they can suspend him when suspected, and the power will devolve on the Vice-President. Should he be suspected, also, he may likewise be suspended fill he be impeached and removed, and the legislature may make a temporary appointment. This is a great security.”
[/blogwhoring]
Thanks, Tula!
Re: Bloomberg and labor:
And this:
N=1 @ 45
Working America, an AFL-CIO community affiliate, is a successful example of outreach to workers. In just a few years, Working America signed up nearly 2 million members by going door to door in working class communities whose members are not unionized. They participate online in deciding Working America’s priorities, and have access to services online such as the Ask a Lawyer program.
Many of these workers define themselves as Christian right, NRA supporters, but when canvassers go to their doors and talk about economic issues that affect them, they really relate (and in turn, translate that understanding into votes for progressive candidates).
Working America info here:
http://www.workingamerica.org/
SteveAudio @ 64
It’s great security for modern Republics when the opposition party is the modern, do-nothing Democrats of today.
Tula Connell @ 29
telling difference by way of a gross generalization: in France (as an example) people don’t say they work for Acme Widgets, they say they work at Acme Widgets. Their identity is not necessarily invested in their occupation and place of work. Work supports a realistic lifestyle, including generous vacation time.
On the other hand, the built-in economic/structural problems of this (at the govt. benefits pay-out level: pensions, health care) aren’t necessarily sustainable in their current form.
What’s the matter with Kansas? They’ve been browbeaten and brainwashed by coporate monkies on low watt stations for 30 years.
-GSD
OT: Anthrax attack investigation..hmm….I’m going to throw this diary up here, before it gets deleted from Kos. Hope that’s okay.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/4/193958/5386
Thanks, Tula.
And apple pie, thanks for all you do. Hang in there. We are the change we seek.
apple pie @ 61
thanks for all you do on behalf of those hungry young minds ~ they are so lucky to have you recognize their need to be fed.
you are ensuring our future ~ never doubt it.
go, apple pie!
LS @ 71
I read a long analysis about the identity of the anthrax attacker.
The analyst, who I think fingered the Olympic Park bomber said that the anthrax attacker was most likely an American who worked with and intimately knew about bio/chemical warfare.
-GSD
Badwater @ 68
When you have an opposition party that threatens to filibuster everything, you need a 60 vote majority in the Senate, which our side doesn’t have.
This needs to be publicized more. that the obstructionist Repubs are blocking passage of everything the Dems write.
A Bush-Murka makeover –
SteveAudio @ 64
i’m for SUSPENDING Bush and Cheney until we figure out what the hell is going on … and that option is directly endorsed by the founding fathers!
what more do we need?
thanks!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 48
The truth on unions is the died when the Feds. destroyed the mob. Unions only work if 1. everyone joins and/or 2. very special field, i.e. screen writers guild, baseball, etc.. Without outside pressure keeping everyone in line (the mob) management will always find a way to prevent effective unions from forming. We don’t have a social welfare system strong enough to handle strikes of any magnitude. People in this country must work or their families starve and cannot afford healthcare.
punaise @ 69:
As you know, in France it is very difficult to fire people. Unions are very strong. But that’s also why companies are reluctant to hire people. Whence the high unemployment especially among the immigrant youth in the banlieues.
Biodun @ 35
Point a bit OT, but I think that if in March it looks like Hillary is is going to win the nomination, and if her polls are mediocre, Bloomberg will jump in. He would sap alot of finance as well as votes from the Clintons. What a mess.
fdl reader @ 77
I’ve been asking myself that question for two years. I don’t know what the hell it’s going to take for the congressional dems to collectively pull their heads out and ponder that question.
from the Thom Hartmann article @ 36
I remember feeling that same thing deep down in my gut. Something about Libby’s demeanor said much more than the trial itself. If he showed any uneasiness or fear, it was not that he’d be found guilty, but that he’d blow his lines, flub his part while on stage and the entire show would come crashing down. The bit player more afraid of his director & producer than of the audience.
Bet the real consequences of Libby not following his instructions while in court, if we knew them, would shock us all.
[sorry for drifting OT]
Oh, Scooter Libby is going to have to pay a substantial fine! I mean 250K is no small amount.
Scooter cuts a check.
-GSD
Biodun @ 79
agreed. the economy is rather moribund on account of that.
GSD @ 83
it took him, what?, 5 minutes to come up with the cash?
Tula, thanks for another reason to love Justice Brandeis!
raven @ 56
raven is aware that I am among the longterm unemployed which is why I’m able to get so many zeds. Much to my dismay. I would quite happily trade all my past and future zeds for a reasonable employment situation.
tbsa @ 81
what is the source for this power? which article/section?
what is the source for this power? which article/section?
Read somewhere it was from Madison at the Constitutional Convention. I’ll look for it.
Peterr is discussing Libby in the previous thread. Libby and related comments are welcome there. Thank you.
tbsa @ 81
i think we just tell them: we KNOW now and we tell them. shame on them not to have explored all of the options.
and there seems to be general outrage developing now … so that’s a huge change.
i’m for faxes of tables and Mpeaches and shutting down the phone lines again and again until they act.
i’m for spending our contributions wisely: only on dems who DO something or candidates who vow to do something and sound right.
i’m thinking of signing up for dem mailing lists JUST so I can tell them all, when they solicit my money: NOT ONE PENNY UNTIL YOU DO SOMETHING about IMPEACHment AND IRAQ … the stakes will keep going up!
carry on!
SteveAudio @ 75
Which is why a lot of folks are pushing Reid to force the Repubs into a traditional filibuster on Iraq with multiple votes and all. Just to keep pounding on them and their lack of action and force them to be upfront about rather than allowing the procedural version to give them cover.
Whose America? Libby’s, Cheney, Rove, Fleisher, Perle’s America!
OldCoastie @ 85
CNN just showed the actual check.. which was drawn on Monday just after Bush whacked justice.. I couldn’t make out who signed the check (possibly two signatures).
LS @ 71
As stated in the diary, the plot sickens. . .
“Gonzales declined to be interviewed for this story, but during the 2000 presidential campaign I asked him if Bush ever read the clemency petitions of death-row inmates, and he equivocated. “I wouldn’t say that was done in every case,” he told me.”
Bush and Gonzales are criminals without conscience.
-GSD
tbsa @ 89
I’ll save you some time, it’s not in the Constitution. Therefore Congress can’t do this. However, I like the fire in your belly, keep it up.
Labor is now at a crossroad-do something or die.
Corporations only have one loyalty, the bottom line, not the good of the country or its’ workers.
In a heartbeat, jobs will be shipped overseas for an uptick in share price.
Jobs will be given to illegal aliens for an increase of pennies on the dollar.
It’s your America! Wake up! Reclaim it.