(Photo of coffee and a cinnamon vanilla sugar honey brioche donut via Chodta.)
I’m not sure what is less surprising this morning — that Paul Wolfowitz has a new wingnut welfare gig at the American Enterprise Institute or that Stu Rothenberg and David Broder have characterized listening to the grassroots of the Democratic party (and in Broder’s case, listening to pretty much anyone who takes a position with which he disagrees) as tantamount to capitulating to…well, capitulating to the will of the people who elected you to office in the first place.
Good lord.
Here’s a refresher: members of Congress and the President are elected by the people and, as such, they are expected to look not only at the long-term and short-term implications of various policies and possible actions and make up their minds based on reason and facts. But they are also obliged to listen to their constituents (i.e. the people who elected them in the first place), and not the select group of persons we call “pundits” — whose understanding of what people outside the Georgetown cocktail party set wants is pretty much nil.
Rothenberg’s piece, in particular, is a disingenuous example of a consultant trying to tell his clients what they want to hear — and missing the point entirely. Let me illustrate this with Rothenberg’s own words:
Congressional Democrats apparently were surprised by the base’s reaction to the bill’s passage. They shouldn’t have been. Have they been living under a rock?
We’ve seen grass-roots Democratic anger for the past few years directed at the White House, and the animosity and invective aimed at Sen. Joe Lieberman (ID-Conn.) during his bid for renomination and re-election should have warned House and Senate Democrats that even they are not immune to attacks from left-of-center bloggers who see any cooperation with the White House on Iraq as perfidy.
Increasingly, the Democratic left is acting much the way the Republican right has acted for decades, measuring Capitol Hill behavior against a standard of ideological purity that treats pragmatists as traitors and those who compromise as worse than the enemy.
These voices have always been around, mind you. It is just that they now have a megaphone with the Internet, much as angry conservatives did when talk radio burst on the scene more than a decade ago….
Maybe Democratic leaders could have done a better job preparing angry party activists for the passage of the spending bill, possibly sparing Hill Democrats the nasty e-mails and angry comments on liberal blogs, but I doubt it. Democrats have spent so many months cranking up the volume on Iraq — making it a major issue in the 2006 elections and since then increasing their attacks on the president and his policies — that it would have been very difficult to persuade grass-roots anti-war activists to accept a deal with the White House that funded the war for even another week.
So, to re-cap Rothenberg: Americans who believe what politicians promise as a foundation reason for securing the votes of their constituents are just fooling themselves, and none of us should dare try and hold said politicians to account for failing to live up to those promises. So we should all just lie back, take what we get and think of England, and how dare we expect more. Does that about cover it?
Yes, how dare we, people who actually live in this nation outside the Beltway, expect Democratic politicians to…you know…act like Democrats.
The bit about Lieberman is truly the telling nugget: in Rothenberg’s mind, challenging Lieberman was an act of extremism. Here’s a clue, Stu — it was an act of disgust at Turncoat Joe’s constant capitulation to the Bush Administration’s policy aims, his use of his position in the Democratic party as a means to undercut every strategic and principled policy initiative of the party leadership. If Rothenberg wants an example as to why an enormous grassroots fight was initiated against Lieberman, he need look no further than the finger-wagging “[i]t is time for Democrats who distrust President Bush to acknowledge that he will be Commander-in-Chief for three more critical years, and that in matters of war, we undermine Presidential credibility at our nation’s peril” crap that Lieberman launched just in time to try and deflate the strengthening Democratic party position with regard to Iraq.
Lieberman is a one-man, whining-voiced, finger-wagging Trojan Horse for the GOP. That Rothenberg refuses to admit that publicly and, instead, attempts to blame grassroots voters for calling a shill for what he is just illustrates even further how far the inside the Beltway crowd is out of touch with the rest of America.
Apparently, expecting Democratic politicians to act like Democrats is exactly what the Beltway pundits don’t want. And expecting them to have some backbone about the issues that matter to a majority of Americans? Fuggetaboudit. Given how wrong and how off the mark the Beltway pundit crowd has been about the Bush Administration and politics in general the last few years, what this says to me is…what in the hell are Democratic politicians waiting for? Wake up and smell the obvious.
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Good Morning!!
Zed?
Good morning Christy!
At least Rothenberg got the tag right for Holy Joe:
Lieberman, IDiot from CT.
So close on the zed. At least there are SOME advantages to living on the “wrong” coast. [And being an early bird.]
I’ve been away since Sunday. Anything happen while I was gone…. ?
musicsleuth @ 5
Nope. Same ole, same old. [snark]
At least they are talking about 60%-75% of the American public as the Democrat’s ‘base’ (apparently).
Good morning, Christy.
Good morning Christy. For as much as the DC pundits criticize netroots bloggers, they have no idea why we’re pissed – they obviously haven’t taken the time to read any blogs or just choose to mischaracterize our opinions.
Good Morning Christy.
Wow, that donut looks good.
challenging Lieberman was an act of extremism
So, are all primary challenges against incumbents acts of extremism? Why, then, do primaries exist? Was Ronald Reagan committing treason when he launched a primary challenge to incumbent GOP president Gerald Ford in 1976?
so that’s a brioche? Looks pretty yummy, if french. Freedom donut!?
Mornin’ Christy!
Sorry for the OT, but for those who’ve heard about the one construction success in Iraq being the new embassy, well, maybe not so much after all. From today’s WaPo0
Talk, Talk, Talk.
The Globule has a fine editorial on the Libby mess… but it is missing one element.
The Globe NEEDS to call for Bush and Cheney’s
impeachment…
Otherwise, it goes on and on
http://www.boston.com/news/glo….._but_name/
musicsleuth @ 7
nice.
Diane @ 9
Naw, We da people are not allowed to have opinions that differ from the pundits like Broder. We don’t have the benefit of their vast experience with cocktail weenies. What THEY forget is that THEY’RE the biggest weeenies of all.
Christy -
Please compare Stu Rothenberg’s comments with Michael Hirsh’s comments (via MSNBC): No-Fault Foreign Policy
‘g morning, all – coffee has just finished brewing…
is this guy saying that 70 percent of America is “left of center”? Why even my 88 year old mother thinks Liarman is ridiculous!
Good morning, everyone. Millineryman, if anyone deserves the zed today, you do! I read your comments yesterday about your day in Philadelphia. Bravo!
Good Morning. I just read about the Iraqi embassy. BushCo corruption has made this country totally incompetent.
Good morning Christy from St. Louis, where I’m visiting my daughter,
I’m pretty much over my rage at the Libby travesty, and back to my contempt of such tools/fools as David Broder. He’s going to be a bitter, bitter man after the next election.
And I’ve decided that the only requirement I have for a presidential candidate is a pledge — signed in blood, preferably — to roll back every single atrocity of the Bush administration, from the environment to civil rights to torture and especially those God-Like Presidential Powers he’s assigned himself (it worries me just as much that a Dem might use them).
Do you think anyone will do this? And will they follow through?
Lemme see here…gotta figure out how this spotlight thing works again…hmmm
Diane @ 9
Of course they haven’t. They already know we’re just whiny kids writing in our pajamas from our parents’ basements, ’cause they’ve all heard that from their echo chamber. Why would they actually bother to look at what we write?
I’ve had it with these bozos. Working journalists there may be some hope for, but pundits are a lost cause. I want to take ‘em down.
OldCoastie @ 17
would like to know what measure of “central tendency” they are using to define “center”.
Christy,
While I couldn’t agree with you more, and you make excellent points throughout, Rothenberg’s point to me is he is working the same side of the street as Lieberman.
It’s become clear to me that their objective is to throw out words they know will guarantee return fire. Any progressive movement forward becomes lost in the anger thrown back in their direction. Hence, the likes of Rothenberg and Lieberman are accomplishing exactly what they have set out to do.
Does anything that comes out of their mouths anymore shock us? All that being said I don’t have any answers for how to make the situation any better, just alot of frustration.
Deacon Blues @ 20
No. Nobody wants to vow to restore the Glorious Clinton Status Quo when there is an actual Clinton running. And Hillary will be doing a delicate dance about Bill’s involvement, so she won’t make a pledge like that–an implicit return to the way things were under Bill. No, they’ll all talk about some glorious, though vague, future.
Starbucks was backed up this morning so this dirty effing hippy is going to walk past the opera to get my venti skim no foam latte.
I really need it because it’s tough living inside the beltway. Not only do I have to hear this drivel on the national shows but the local ones also.
booman and bernhard also take on david broder today.
Pfifferling @ 18
Thanks, it was a great experience. I was channeling FDL when I was talking to people about the rampant obstruction of justice that is happening. Looks like something actually seeped into the brain here.
selise @ 24
Same as always — halfway between where the national Republicans are and where the national Democrats are, no matter how far the Republicans move to the right.
What is interesting to me is that the elitist beltway crowd is so astonished by the netroots rise and the beliefs of people on the internet. I don’t consider this to be the far left. I consider it to be the left banding together and expressing themselves from all corners of the nation and a fairly diverse cross-section of America and connecting. Our views aren’t radical–they’ve always been there. But because we are more worried, in general, about putting our efforts into our lives and those of others we don’t all aspire to be in the crowd where one networks socially with people only of their own belief system.
It really pi$$es me off that the normal left is portrayed as new and loony–we’re the same we’ve always been, but now we have an easy way to band together and they can’t stop it. They can not control the message. The best part is that it is not some underground newspaper–we can reach out to many through sites like the Superb Firedoglake and stand together for what is right (and make noise about what is wrong!).
Since theirs is the only opinion that matters, obviously they only require candidates that buy into their dictum. The rest of us can go take a flying *uck & we shouldn’t bother to complain.
1970cs @ 23
I don’t think there’s any danger of movement getting “lost in the anger.” 2006 showed that clearly. If these guys think they’re accomplishing anything other than making themselves feel smug by pissing us off, they’re welcome to continue repeating that mistake.
Redshift @ 30
ah, i see…. what the rest of america thinks is not part of the calculation. thank you for the explaination…. this is all “new math” for me.
Great piece CHS! Wolfowitz proves that crime does pay!
Morning gang — just got back from the preschool drop-off. And yes, that donut does look a tad bit tasty, doesn’t it? *g*
Broder is afraid of “Mob Rule” why unlike ancient Rome or Athens almost everybody in America can read we all watch TV and are aware of what the corporations tell us are the issues. But aparently despite all this thought control the “mob ” made the wrong choice about immigration and the war in Iraq.
Maybe the inbed Patricans of the press and the political ruling class should be wondering why the Plebians are balking. Maybe Broder should realise that Bush is a bad Emperor and the “Mob ” for all their lack of elite “cough ” education caught on to this fact way before the experts like Broder. Maybe Broder should realise that while he is a PR guy putting a spin on things for corporate media and a degenerate ruling class. He is not nor will he ever be part of that ruling class nomatter how much of an Uncle Tom he tries to be.
The American Enterprise Institute, Wolfowitz, and the rest of the “cakewalk in Iraq” zealots have a regime change agenda to complete before 2008!
Redshift at 32
Every time these clowns utter a sentence it’s run through the usual hatefest. Reacting to their intentional insanity is treading water.
OldCoastie @ 17
I was in my doctor’s office two days ago, and as I left, he and the next patient were having a casual conversation about how we have two systems of justice in this country, one for the powerful and one for everyone else. Now I don’t live in a conservative area, so my doctor may well be as liberal as me (I haven’t discussed politics with him.) But his office is in the richest and most Republican part of our area, so the fact that he wouldn’t hesitate to bring it up tells me that people in general get it, and no matter what Broder and Rothenberg think, they know that it stinks.
dakine01 -
Nearly fell off the chair reading the wapo article on the embassy in Iraq around midnite…..it *does not* get much more damning! Do ya reckon the msm will take any notice? Duh! That was a wasted question.
Pfiff -
Good mornin’! Haven’t seen you in donkey’s ears. How’ve you been keeping, darlin’?
OT, but good for a post-4th morning laff. Seriously, they should run something like this in this country.
Speeding: No One Thinks Big of You
I happen to agree that a lot of aggressive young male drivers have doubts about their masculinity. (Disclosure: I am a male.)
It’s all there in the Declaration of Independence. If they would just read it!!!
How the elected are there to do the will of the people….. and the people have a right to declare their will!
oh my!
selise @ 24
Redshift @ 30
Brilliant — absolutely spot on.
MPEACH
Couldn’t put a photoshopped “M” on the image but sending a bunch of postcards (or delivering actual peaches) with an M stuck on them might make a memorable statement from the “70% EXTREMISTS”!
Excellent righteous rant, Christy. a longtime fan here – don’t post often but this post I felt I needed to respond to, if just to say “Hear, here!” and “Bravo!”
Happy Birthday, Waccamaw! I saw you mentioned it in one of yesterday’s threads. Are you enjoying the voodoo doll? It’s cold and rainy here in Munich. I’m wearing a fleece pullover!
Thanks for this post, Christy. And more than that, thanks for keeping on ‘em. And also on us.
Consider this. Much like respect, animosity is earned.
Though it was largely smoke and mirrors (so to speak), Junior had America and the world eating out of his hand after 9/11. All that followed earned, EARNED The Wrath of Blog (in the absence of any shout-out from the population at large).
The Dems in Congress had us eating out of their hands in our collective admiration for their Big Wins. They have earned our disdain. The problem here is that it gets lumped into the braying of the radical righties, which ramps up and amps up and distorts the real reasons for our anger.
Reasons. Plural. Multiple. Legion. Beaucoup. Many and egregious.
Did I mention that Rothenberg pisses me off???
1970cs @ 38
“Hatefest,” huh? Gosh, I thought we were discussing the nature of their idiocy; I didn’t realize we were engaging in a “hatefest.”
It’s only treading water if you can’t walk and chew gum at the same time. Knowing who your opponents are and what they’re trying to peddle is useful — ignoring them doesn’t make them go away either. As long as we’re taking action, too (and we’re taking a hell of a lot of action), telling the world how they’re full of sh*t does no harm.
Waccamaw @ 40
Pretty much like Jerry Jeff Walker said in his song:
“Just getting by on getting by’s my stock in trade…”
dreamcatcher @ 41
Thanks for the link. That was a fantastic clip and article.
broder today reminds me of something paul krugman said a year ago. here’s a bit of it (my transcript so my errors):
Isn’t losing a war a sign that while God in the Conservative mind at least might have appointed G.W Bush as his representive on earth (God knows he wasn’t elected by the people). Bush’s failure at war means that the Lord God has withdrawn his favor. Its time for the Left to go religous!
Waccamaw is it your birthday?
Have a good one!
What, with all that flatbacking, how does Rothenberg sleep at night?
Citizen Jane @ 30
Silly netroots! We are disrupting the giant circle jerk that is the DC consultant/commentariat-lobbyist-politician alliance.
We ARE America, hear us roar!
Faithful reader here — and I agree with everything you’ve said. However, I think what we’re seeing is a pushback at the internet crowd. If they can start calling us “mob rule” and in any way diminish the web influence, then they win. We are now the nightmare of the insider establishment. These articles are a leading edge of an attack. Watch for more…
They’ll also work more towards internet regulation. The first step in counteracting it is understanding what they’re up to.
Citizen Jane @ 30
Spot on.
We are not “far left.”
We are not “the looney left.”
We are not the “anti-war left.”
WE ARE THE DEMOCRATIC WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
And we want our party back. WE are the base. We bought it, we own it, it’s ours, and we’re taking it back from the consultantocracy that milked it and bilked it, from the talking heads that would use it as their whipping boy, from the opposition which demonized it.
The hidden message in Rothenberg’s piece is that he feels personally threatened by US, the real Democratic Party, because his livelihood has been dependent upon a compliant and willing host that was unaware of the many leeches stuck to its backside. His living depends on the “dependability” of the Democratic Party fitting a particular storyline or mold — because if they depart from it, Rothenberg actually has to do some gawddamned work for once in his career.
Heaven forbid that Rothenberg actually has to talk with the rank-and-file members of the Democratic Party, or its state party, or any local branch of the Democratic Party. That would pop the precious moneymaking bubble along with his head.
Christy your “refresher” is needed. But let us not forget that the Bush administration was “selected” by a Supreme Court Judicial coup.
Selected not elected!
cinnamonape @ 44
Ask, and you shall receive.
Kathleen at 58 — I prefer to think of the Bush Administration as an aberration.
Pfiff -
Thankee much…….maybe in two years I’ll be able to celebrate my 4 July birthday with some measure of enjoyment but until then, it just serves as a reminder of the lost years under the reign of shrub. Wrt the voodoo doll, I’m hoping for a one point drop in blood pressure with each pin insertion. *g*
Good morning Christie. Nice post to start off the day, and certainly topical, given that yesterday was the ‘People’s Day’. Broder also thinks that the people have too much to say in what affects them.
What intrigues me about all this is that people are actually now coming out and publically admitting that they think Democracy is a bad idea. I predict that if a massive Democratic sweep becomes more and more inevitable, we will be exposed to a lot more of this stuff, and sensible pundits will be saying in public as well as to themselves, ‘well, you know, that’s an interesting point. Maybe we do have too much democracy for the nation’s good.’ I can’t recall a time when I heard this. I wasn’t around in the 1930s when these ideas were current in Europe. You only have to look at the pressures that led to Vichy France to see where it leads.
lj @ 57
Spot on!
Christy,
I’m in Europe at the moment, and your words have an especially powerful ring when read from over here. You’re a great American.
Thanks…!
selise @ 51
Thanks for this, selise! There are those in the “ruling class” who get it–Bill Gates, Lewis Lapham, Warren Buffet. I mentioned last night seeing the Lapham doc, American Ruling Class. It’s airing on Sundance Channel. Know thine
adversarypopinjay.musicsleuth @ 59
Can you change the frosting color on my brownies to bright red? I shouldn’t have used a purpley-blue.
(I’m kidding, do not try this at home. I may have to bake another batch — this time with red frosting — because the family hoovered them down.)
things come undone @ 52
Agreed, but the trick is to be religious without being dogmatic, bigoted, theocratic, and hateful, not to mention corrupt. By all these measures the religious right has failed, but they don’t give a damn. They just want to assert their point of view over yours.
In other words, they have usurped what they call religion and it has become a pure power play.
This is the problem for the liberal left: how do you promote an agenda for the general good while avoiding the pitfalls I mention above?
hey, Rayne, one addition to your fine list:
WE ARE THE DEMOCRATIC WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
We are the democracy wing of America.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 60
me too. but seeing how so many (dems included) go along or refuse to take the smallest stands against him…. and seeing how much of what he’s done had it’s roots in the clinton administration…. i’m having a harder and harder time rationalizing that view.
Redshift @ 48
I’ll try really hard to unwrap some Juicy Fruit and pace around the room while I type this.
At what point does an individual who takes the time to read the comments on a blog such as this need to be convinced futher that Joe Lieberman, Bill Kristol, or any other neo-con who has his lips wrapped around the Likud exhaust pipe of Middle East genocide are homicidal maniacs.
The point being no it doesn’t do any harm to state the obvious, but at what point is it redundant.
Waccamaw, did your friend’s daughter make it, or is it something you can buy?
“HATEFEST”?
Hmm! Should I get upset at a President who voids the very Constitutional Protections that are considered central to what it is to be an American?
Should I hate that a President sends our nation to war based on lies…and that he commutes the sentence of a man that was central to covering up those lies? To protect his own A**?
Should I hate that the President had the FBI and NSA examine millions of US phone calls and internet messages without search warrants…an act that even his own conservative Attorney General wouldn’t sign off on when approached by Presidential Counsel (now Atty General) Gonzalez!
Should I hate it when the President repeatedly states that he will REFUSE to follow the specified law of the land when he makes “signing statements” that effectively implies he will ignore the law. He can veto the law, and send it back to Congress for revision…instead he asserts an Unconstitutional right to veto PARTS of the law. Should I hate that he does this? I think so!
Should I hate that the President apparently thinks that the act of leaking the identity of a covert CIA agent involved actively in missions abroad regarding WMD smuggling was acceptable because it was “politics as usual”. That he exonerates the one aide convicted of lying and obstructing the investigation?
Yes! There are some things that I do HATE, and that deserve our utter disgust.
Do I revel that Bush is doing these acts? No, I wish we had a better leader…and I HATE that Bush violates his sworn oath practically every day he serves.
David Broder: The Dean of Beltway Old Farts.
The “anti war” crowd is not made up of just Democrats. This is an absolute myth! The “anti-war” crowd (the majority of Americans) is and was (before the invasion) made up of deeply concerned Republicans, Independents and Democrats! Matthews has been making this distinction for quite some time. Better late than not at all!
If Matthews and the rest of the “groupthink” MSM (including NPR) had done their jobs and been out on the streets at the anti-invasion marches and rallies in October of 2002 in D.C. and the winter of 2003 in New York City and across the U.S. They would have seen first hand that middle America (Vets from WWII,Korea,Vietnam,Desert Storm, teachers, lawyers, union workers, students etc) were out protesting against the Bush administrations push for the invasion of Iraq.
Prairie Sunshine @ 68
Yeah, we are the backbone of this nation, from truck drivers to lawyers, from teenagers to elders, huddled masses and all.
Agh, I am sooooo bloody sick of idiots who are not rank-and-file members of the Democratic Party telling us what we are or are not.
lj @ 57
Exactly. And step two–organize, organize, organize…Blogcommunity action plan….
Too bad we couldn’t change the topic of the link that dreamcatcher @ 41 provided and make our own little video. It could be WAR: No body thinks big of you. Like the need to war means that you are overcompensating for something.
A letter to the editor in response to today’s editorial.
Above the law in all but name
Your editorial: Above the law, in all but name provides excellent documentation for pursuing the charges of High Crimes and Misdemeanors against the Bush/Cheney administration. A correct interpretation of this key phrase in our constitution identifies crimes that are uniquely attributable to persons of high station such as the President and the Vice-President.
Commuting the Libby sentence provides further obstruction of justice in any investigation of the outing of a covert CIA officer.
Directing the NSA to conduct warrantless wiretaps on American citizens would only be conducted by the executive.
Using signing statements to ignore countless laws could only be performed by a High Person.
Using the Department of Justice to pursue political foes and protect friends could only be performed by High Persons.
Misleading the Congress, the Press and the People into a pointless, criminal (yes, criminal) war could only be the act of a High Person.
The complete list of this administrations High Crimes and Misdemeanors would occupy pages.
It is time for Congress to put an end to this lawless administration. The time for impeachment is now.
Knut Wicksell @ 62
the view that there was too much democracy was explicitly made in the ’70s by people like samuel huntington. can’t recommend too highly that you read samuel huntington’s essay in “The Crisis of Democracy: Report on the Governability of Democracies to the Trilateral Commission“.
Two things – these guys are scared! If they are to keep their jobs, they might have to start thinking and doing real analysis – something they haven’t had to do since they got the cushy pundit position years ago. For years all they had to do was think of some variation on left and right and spew forth.
Also, Have any of these guys compared us to the Andrew Jackson wing of the party that totally trashed the White House upon inauguration? Sounds like they are getting the Clinton trashing the place thing wound up again.
OfT -
Is it just me, or did it seem that there was extraordinary silence from the WH after the Pution visit with the Bush Boys?
OTH, maybe it would be a bit much to ask GWB to have a presser in which he says “Once again, I looked into his eyes, and saw his soul. Umm, uhh, since his eyes were telling me to fuck off and die, I guess that we’re no longer soul mates. But the lobster was great, and I almost caught a giant perch!”
What’s keeping my spirits up in light of the president’s eraser is Judge Walton’s handling of it, esp. his footnote.
I had my teenage children read the post of it last night to remind them how effective it is to use intelligence and cleverness than uncontrolled ranting in making a point.
lisadawn82 @ 76
now that is just fucking brilliant.
musicsleuth @ 60
oh that’s good, cinnamonape & musicsleuth
Prairie Sunshine @ 75
And that includes being active with the local party wherever possible. There should be a seamless integration between the voice of the Democratic netroots on the internet and the the Democratic grassroots on the the ground. If they cut us off the internet, they can’t cut us out in the real world.
Short-term I’m going to be working on building a phone tree of contacts; for some reason we’ve become too reliant on the internet for communications, almost to the exclusion of phonecalls. While the internet has made us far more fleet than our predecessors, we still need a way to communicate broadly in the event of a local emergency that might cut into that communication system. Find out who your local party leaders are, and how to contact them besides the internet.
Pfiff -
Store-bought. Here’s part of what I put in a comment last nite:
…..the coolest birthday present evaaaaaar………….a gwb Voodoo Doll….. kit contains:
• a 56-page book – introducing you to the fine art of political voodoo, complete with real spells suitable for every political occasion.
• a gwb look-alike voodoo doll – marked so you know exactly where to push the pins for specific spells.
• magic voodoo pins – to activate the spells and goose bush into (or out of) action.
Assume it’s available from: http://www.runningpress.com. $12.95 U.S.
This is the comment I just left on Broder:
We are NOT the enablers and politicians you break bread with every night at your dinner parties. We are individuals who get up each day and EARN our money. We don’t inherit our money; we only inherit the values which you once claimed were your values as well.
Where and when did you lose those values Mr Broder? Ask yourself, where and when did you lose your values?
So we should all just lie back, take what we get and think of England, and how dare we expect more.
this is what my mother told me to do on my wedding night… I kid! I don’t have a mother…
Lieberman is a one-man, whining-voiced, finger-wagging Trojan Horse for the GOP.
on the flipside, they lost Bloomberg…
Kathleen @ 73
I think being included in the “anti-war crowd” is very off-putting for many. I’ve seen it in my community. Funny how peace can seem radical, but there you have it. What’s called for is to engage the Repubs and Independents and bashful Dems such that we have a cohesive “crowd” rather that disparate onesies and twosies. Because even though plus-or-minus 70 percent oppose the war, many do not see themselves as part of a whole. And I lay that squarely at the feet of Dem leadership.
Digby called it the “punditocrisy” a couple of weeks ago, and I just fell in love with the new spelling. To me it sums it all up.
The Diane Rehm show focused on the 2008 Election this morning at 10. I am with Gore on this one… too much time being spent by the MSM on this topic!
http://wamu.org/programs/dr/
dakine01 @ 86
Most excellent. If Broder had a clue about us, who we really are, he’d throw in the towel and retire right now.
I r ur nayber, cutting teh grass…
dreamcatcher @ 67
It was the churches who led the call to end slavery because they thought that it was imoral despite what the bible said about having slaves. We should model our religous movment on a model that has already worked. I should research church involvment in the abolishinist movement anybody got any book suggestions?
I think the Firedoglake Bloggers and other independent bloggers should feel proud of the attention and the attacks that they are receiving. A sure sign that the corporate controlled beltway crowd are feeling threatened in regard to their integrity and independence being seriously questioned by the people!
dakine—
Righteous smackdown!
dakine01 @ 87
good one! I’m going over to see what else is being said.
This sure says a lot about Bush’s occupation
Morning all
Great post and thread this morning
Thanks for the link, Waccamaw. Very cool!
Eg & Rayne:
Thanks! It is obvious that righteous anger makes no impression on him so I thought a little sadness mixed with condescending pity might.
I still won’t hold my breath.
I detect a note of desperation in some of the rantings of the pundits in recent months. As more and more Americans look to the progressive blogs for information these guys are going to become more irrevelent.
Christy, Jane and all the FDL team keep up the good work!!!
snowbird42 @ 96
Read this and weep. Got fences?
dakine01_Great response.
Hilarious take on the Pristine Broder vs. the unwashed masses from mahablog.
realworld @ 77
Ughh. The right-wing has made it so that even if members of the party commit some egregious offences, break the law etc, none of them will fall too hard. I remember this was discussed in Crashing the Gates, and yet in a way I don’t want some similiar safety net for progressive Democrats. The soft landings are part of the reason there is zero accountability in Republikan land.
dakine01 @ 99
Broder’s getting an earful over there.
The Broder article confirms that I must be in a “twilight zone.” After Shrubs “commutation” I heard zero Congressional Dems call this what it clearly was — Obstruction Of Justice! Zero. (Did I miss one? Please let me know.) I just read (via HufPo I think) that Conyers will hold hearings on the limits to the pardon/commutation power of the president. WTF?!? We already know that the pardon power is absolute EXCEPT IN CASES OF IMPEACHMENT. What is Conyers showboating about. We must have impeachment hearings because that is the only way claims of “executive privilege” become null and void, and it is the only way pardons or commutations can be nullified. How can every Congressional Dem miss this obvious point unless they are purposely looking the other way.
Assuming the accuracy of the account of Conyers committee and the absence of Congressional Dem characterization of an obstruction of justice being…..an obstruction of justice, I am left with one of two equally inconcievable conclusions. Either every Congressional Dem is completely ignorant of the impact of Shrub’s actions on our Constitution….or, the fix is in. (We won’t rough you up too much if you don’t ruff us up too much when it’s our turn to violate the Constitution.) I do not see any middle ground between the arrogance of Shrub’s actions and the complacency with which Congressional Dems treat them.
Elliott @ 106
MY comment hit the 8th page. I assume there are a few more pages of comments now.
dakine01 @ 99
No you got it right tears, mercy and pity all burn the souls of the Dammed! Anger only invites an angry response. Keep on Framing your attacks in disdain Broder is a wannabe Cool Kid sucking up to the Beltway “Mean Girls” Cheney is their Prom Queen (Arrgh….! just….pictured …..Cheney… in ..Prom Dress Projectile Vomiting now sorry). We bloggers however belong to a club that given how much the belway pundits attack us they are all desperate to join. Since they can’t join they have to put us down. They can’t join because they sold their souls for White House access. They sold their souls for Dick.
sandflea @ 103
707!!
I love the photo at mahablog! It really does look like a young Bwana Broder.
The republican form of government needs to be replaced with direct democracy. The dolts and criminals in the shrub administration are as much a sympton as a problem. Does anyone seriously think a democratic WH and congress would deal well with Iraq, health care, global warming, China’s environmental destruction, and social security (just to list 5 major problem areas needing solutions)? The republican form of government is a stacked deck. A direct democracy would not be as corruptible. And could work.
things come undone @ 109
I am so very glad that my parents didn’t want me to be a Dick…
New Christy upstairs
I saw this link posted on Late Night last night by Renee in Ohio. It was enough to give me nightmares.
“Turncoat Joe” is an “Israeli firster” first and foremost. He will go where ever he can get the most support for Israel and it’s illegal occupation of Palestinian lands and Israel’s persistent unwillingness to abide by UN resolution 242 and Israel’s unwillingness to sign the Non Proliferation Treaty where ever that support may be!
Liebermann is neither a Democrat or a Republican!
1970cs @ 70
Well, I guess I see that as akin to the view that we should just ignore them and not give them attention, because giving them attention somehow rewards them. Ignoring them never made them go away, and it is actually useful to know what new BS is being spouted, because while the players may not change much, the specific talking points do, and it’s much better for my blood pressure to find out from a snarky summary than to actually read all that stuff myself. In addition, there’s a constant flow of new people some of whom aren’t familiar with all the past outrages, so to paraphrase the old joke about prisoners, we can’t just say “thirty-eight!” and expect everyone to nod.
But a briefer way of expressing it would be to say that the way things are done around here seems to have worked pretty well so far, and if you don’t like a particular type of post, you can just over skip it. You may not have meant it to come off this way, but if you instead seem to be saying “you shouldn’t be doing this,” well, that’s likely to raise some hackles.
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” Mahatma Ghandi
If this is true, then we’re awfully close to winning.
Fresh thread, up and running for everyone.
If by “think of England” you refer to taking heed of the mad King George, I suppose you have a point…
Say, suppose all those thoughts of England were aphrodisiacal after all? We may have been misinterpreting that scary injunction. Close your eyes and think of… oooh, Nelson’s Column! Hot.
Don’t mind me. I’m punch-drunk with all the grim news from Washington. It’s become a real torrent, hasn’t it? Hard to keep up with the bad news these days, eh, Mein Fuhrer?
Nemo @ 118
Precisely! Go Firedoglakers!
Nemo at 118 — Here’s hoping…
jayt @ 80
I understand that it did not go well. boosh was so pissed that Putie caught a fish and he didn’t that he refused to move the missile bases, and now there’s gonna be a new Cold War.
Yet another example of how this “president” is leading us backward through history.
sonate @ 107
Conyer’s hearing makes sense in two ways: 1) It keeps the issue on the front burners. 2) It can allow him to start asking if the commutation was obstruction of justice and whether that counts as a High Crime or Misdemeanor.
Let’s hope he takes advantage of (2)
Back atcha, Rayne at 85. Been a Dem district chair, been an LTE writer…we can all do it!
Copied this above–sorry for missing attribution. On the fly now….
Exactly. Refrain. Over and over and over and…
And Chorus: Lawless Bush Administration….
Christy Hardin Smith @ 60
Fascism is not an aberration. It’s a disease that feeds on human blood and the treasure of the Common Good.
Fascists know that their enemies follow what is essentially the Christian way. Not in a religious sense but in everyday practice. We are non violent by nature and we wish to live in Peace.
Fascists know this, so until you are ready to use violence against them they have no reason to fear a popular revolt.
This is going to become very important over the next year. We keep trying to believe that they won’t do the unthinkable as the Law closes in, and we are not ready for for what they’ll do to not only hold on to power, but to keep from being held accountable.
If Bush attacks Iran, how long will it take to shut this country down non violently?
We are not prepared to wage velvet revolution and we need to get on the ball about it.
Kathleen @ 116
lieberman is a irsaeli firster in the same way cheney is a usa firster.
their support is damaging to their causes. and i reject them both.
Subway Serenade @ 125
The two things that have become of increasing inpotance in the past few years are “guard against enemies foreign and domestic” and “the right to bear arms”
I never thought it would come to this but I fear it has.
Gnome de Plume @ 111
But did he ever really have a discernable chin like the fellow in the photo? I have my doubts.
while we are quoting great thinkers, check out Rude Pundit’s “Thomas Paine Would Fuck George W. Bush’s Shit Up.”
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/
Just read the comments for Broder’s column at the WaPo — out of hundreds, only 5 in support.
selise @ 127
Lieberman is not an israeli firster. Trust me. I think he may have dual citizenship, but as one person who knew him since gosh knows when put it to me over the phone: he has no principles. He sniffs which way the political winds are going. And that’s pretty much it WYSIWYG.
Let’s not even go there with the Israeli thing. Plenty, I mean plenty, believe that HoJoe and his neocon ilk do more harm to Israel. The Holy Man is *not* that deep.
The Scooter story seems to be losing traction already. Hope it gets kept alive. Could use a shot in the arm, though. Maybe the briefing in response to Walton’s last order or if the WH is requested to “clarify” what it’s doing per Walton’s footnote will give it a lift. I mean, I trhink this is HUGE.
beerfart at 133 — Did a whole post on the Walton opinion yesterday. And we have more Libby stuff coming up in a bit.
Has anyone here ever read Walter Lippman’s book The Public Philosophy? He was pushing the same ideas about the public being too powerful & the president being weak for having to bow to public opinion. Broder follows in this beltway elite tradition.
Prudence Goodwife @ 135
I like your screen name. :)
mui @ 132
thank you for the correction from someone who ought to know.
i was trying to say that i think lieberman is bad for israelis, but as you say, maybe i shouldn’t even go there.
selise @ 137
Well like I’ve said before, I tend to sit on the fence, but like you condemn all violence against the little guy. My problem with the Israeli-A*pac arguments is too often they reek of International Jewish Conspiracy. Plus, as one who supported the opposition, as you did too, I hate it when our old oppenent is made to be a bigger, deeper guy than he really is.
mui @ 138
thank you. I used to try to say that here and no one seemed to get it.
mui @ 138
that’s a good point. i’m having trouble knowing the best language to use.
there are people who claim the “pro-israeli” mantle (a*p*c, etc), who are acting, i think, profoundly against israeli wellbeing.
and as i’ve become more concerned about the possible reality of a usa attack on iran… and the possible negative consequences of that. i am very, very concerned we could see a dangerous anti-israeli anti-jewish backlash here in the states – if our attack on iran is seen as being done at the urging of these so-called “pro-israeli” actors. that i do not want to see.
because of this concern, i try speak up against the idea that people like lieberman or organizations like a*p*c are pro-israeli… as a way to innoculate against future backlash.
maybe i’m just over thinking this….
what in the hell are Democratic politicians waiting for?
Nothing. They’re not waiting for anything. The system is broken, and even responsible, articulate Glen Greenwald has seen the light (or the darkness). We have to build something new. I don’t know what it is, but the old way is gone. It really is.
Funny thing is, that makes me feel better. I have no stake in this game and would just as soon see it evolve. People who imagine they have influence over Democratic Party strategy, both the pros you cite AND a lot of the progressive netroots, are actually working for the same master. :-(
Not ordinary times, to say the least.
selise @ 140
Ah no! My hairs are practically standing up on end. As a Chinese friend of mine would say: “spit twice and take that back –and say there will be no attack on Iraq.”
I think we must be setting off filters in 5 different ways or something.
I meant : spit twice and say there will be no attack on Iran. Says superstitious me.
I had every intention of posting a thoughtful, witty, incisive on-topic comment, but I dare not lean forward and risk drooling into my keyboard.
Like Homer Simpson, at the moment I will cheerfully sell my soul for a cinnamon vanilla sugar honey brioche donut.
selise @ 140
Selise:
I always look at for your comments, but you should have thought a little more before posting this one. Americans are imbeciles and bigots in many ways, but it’s just an outrageous slander to say they’re latent anti-Semites when they arm and fund the Israeli state and, as far as I’m concerned, fight its wars. What, exactly, would be “dangerous” about an “anti-Israeli backlash”? We might sit there asses down to make a peace deal with the Palestinians? We might not greenlight their next carpet bombing of Lebanon? And as for dangerous “anti-Jewish” backlash, I suspect that’s as likely as the backlash we were supposed to see in the wake of “The Passion”.
Saying that A*P*C/Lieberman/neocons “aren’t really pro-Israeli” is disingenuous: they certainly see them that way, and, more importantly, the great majority of the Israeli political spectrum see them that way: there was a broad consensus there on wanting us to invade Iraq (it is less, by the way, about attacking Iran).
I suspect we have much the same views on the Lobby. Your problem is that you’re unduly timid about expressing these views and even undermine them by suggesting there’s something latently anti-Semitic about them.
I posted many times here — without reaction, alas — my opinions on the Lobby after Nancy Pelosi was booed there. My point was that we and our Democratic representatives need to attack that Lobby, which, although clearly aligned with Israeli, is a militant, extremist organization unprepresentative of American Jews, so unprepresentative that it has fatally slipped by aligning itself overtly with Republicans. The booing of Pelosi, and accompanying applause of Cheney, was a sign of weakness from a gang desperate over what it’s wrought.
mauimom @ 4
I thought ID stood for “Insufferable Dickhead.”
Here is a real problem for Rothenberg and the lieberdems. While it is true the internet gives many of us a means to have our voices heard (horrors!!!), their problem isn’t the internet…it is the growing strength of the progressive wing based on the disastrous policies of the right and their Democratic Party enablers. It is too bad for Rothenberg if he subscribes to those wretched politics and is upset at their widespread rejection… but that is the issue. To see the huge up-wrenching of the body politic and its underlying crisis, with political issues front and center, in Rothenberg’s terms of strategy and tactics is a good indication of the intellectual bankruptcy of the Democratic Party Advisers and Pundits (D-PAP): Rothenberg, Beinart, Daalder, Broder, Shrum, Penn, Richard Cohen…
mui @ 144
ok. here’s to hoping this is just another episode of “selise is not just wrong, she is full of shit”.
but, at least you get where i’m coming from.
brendan @ 146
Because Pro-Israeli is a scarily inaccurate term for the likes of Holy Joe who pretends to care. I would like to list links, but the list is long. He doesn’t see nor hear unless it is in HIS best interest. That is true of many neocons. That is also true of the Xtian right wing that claims to be pro-Israel, when really they want to hasten End-Times. Let’s see the neocons for the money-hungry antidemocratic war pigs they are. Not pro-israel. Let’s see HoJoe for the entitlement loving cardboard cutout of a pasty face smile for what he is. Not pro-Israel. And the end-time freaks? They want nothing but destruction.
Since I don’t have a blog of my own, it kinda pisses me off that bloggers are being given all the credit for influencing Democratic politicians. What about the rest of us out here who call and write to our representatives & senators, regularly; those of us who only contribute to candidates & organizations that care about what we care about? How do I get to take some of the “blame” for requiring our representatives to represent us? Anyway, these same pundits aren’t so critical of the influence of the christianists on the republics – they have “values”….
selise @ 149
I know, I know. But let’s do everything in our power not to get fatally fatalistic.
John sang it so many years ago
The TRUTH. That’s our
Seems so friggin easy, doesn’t it?
brendan @ 146 –
thanks for the thoughtful disagreement. i’m going to try to respond in detail:
thank you. . i have thought a lot about this… but, that doesn’t mean i couldn’t be very wrong.
it’s not about americans – it’s about human beings. our response, the anti-muslim blood lust i witnessed after 911 (in a university and in a blue state) changed forever my ideas about what is possible when people are angry and scared.
i see all of the things you list as being good things – for us, for israelis, for palestinians, for lebonese, for everyone. i was thinking more of an angry and sudden withdrawal of all support (political and economic) from israel during a world wide economic crisis (sparked by a military action that caused iranian, and perhaps saudi oil off the market) – that could provoke an over reaction from israeli leaders (who i do not trust not to use their nukes).
i think in the usa our current anti-semitism is mostly expressed as anti-arab bigotry. i can see that switching. maybe i am wrong. but i do know that this country has a history of anti-semitism that meant restricted jewish immigration to the usa while they were being slaugtered in europe during ww2. so, it’s not impossible.
well, i really think this. so it’s not being disingenuous – it may be very wrong… but i’m writing what i really think. maybe i am affected by having worked with israeli peace activists – so, i see their actions as “pro-israeli”. just like here, i don’t see cheney and the neocons as “pro-american”… i think they are profoundly anti-american, in their values and in their actions. i see christy as a good example of “pro-american”. but again, that’s my perspective on what is good for americans and what is good for israelis.
i despise the lobby, just like i despise pnac. and i don’t think there’s anything inherently anti-semitic or anti-american about that. but i do acknowledge that criticism of the lobby can be perceived as anti-semitic or at least encouraging anti-semitism…. and i don’t want to contribute to that.
i mostly agree with you… except that so long as a*p*c is allowed to, wrongly imo, brand itself as “pro-israeli” and even “pro-jewish”, it will be difficult/impossible to pry the democrats away…
i just don’t see a*p*c as an israeli lobby – my working hypothesis is that it is primarily a militaristic lobby which preys upon the natural fears of israelis (and jews in general), just like pnac has preyed upon (and tries to amplify) the fears of americans after 911.
…and if we can change the meme of a*p*c =”pro-israeli” to a*p*c = “anti-israeli” just like pnac = “anti-american”… well, i see that as a truthful and potentially helpful wedge.
in conclusion… as i wrote above… maybe i’m way overthinking this… maybe i am all wrong. but i am trying to be truthful (and helpful)…
mui @ 143
yes, many apologies to the mods.
(((((mods)))))
mui @ 152
amen to that.
Wow, I just read Broder and steam is coming out of my ears!! (I know, I’m late for breakfast.) The last paragraph left me gasping for breath. He comes right out and says it is perfectly O.K. for our leaders to lie to and manipulate us… they know what is best! Right to your face! Like you are stupid, stupid people and you should just trust that the elite know what is best for you!
Un-@#%@#% believable!
Remember all those columns David Brooks wrote last year about what a bunch of dangerous extremists the conservatives were for supporting Steve Laffey’s primary challenge to Lincoln Chafee? He was quite eloquent on the subject, as I’m sure you’ll all recall.
the Democratic left is acting much the way the Republican right has acted for decades, measuring Capitol Hill behavior against a standard of ideological purity that treats pragmatists as traitors and those who compromise as worse than the enemy
If I thought that was really true, I’d be shouting “And damn well about time!”
Do we imagine for one single instant that the right rose to power by being polite and understanding and passively accepting whatever its oh so pragmatic, oh so sensible, oh so “serious” “representatives” came up with?
We have been betrayed. Up with the truth!
selise:
Thanks for the response. I think the point I really want to drive home is why I called you “disingenuous”. It’s a kind of sophistry to say that the Lobby is not an “Israeli Lobby” and that it’s not pro-Israel. Of course its extremist views aren’t representative of all Israelis, but on the issue of Iraq it unquestionably represented the great majority of Israelis, just as it did in last year’s Lebanon atrocities when it stifled any hope of a cease-fire. Of course, to some degree it is a lobby for generalized American militarism, but you ignore the obvious fact that it is an unquestionable asset to the Israeli state — whether under a Labor or L*k*d or national unity government — to have such influence in the U.S. Congress and Pentagon. You may think they’re not “pro-Israeli”, but you’re in the same minority as peace activists in Israel. It’s also disingenuous to ignore the Israeli ties that neoconservatives have (think Feith, Perle, Wurmser, Abrams, particularly), choosing only to see them as creatures of American militarism or, I guess, mere minions of Cheney and Rumsfeld: you underestimate their bureaucratic infiltration of the Pentagon, for example, or the outright purges they’ve executed in taking over press organs like the National Review, or the WSJ and Washington Post editorial pages, or, worse, the WMD reporting in the NYT.
You’re definitely being truthful and helpful, but you are overthinking a little. Don’t respond to charges of anti-Semitism until they’re actually leveled at you. You may be surprised to find they don’t come — American Jews, particularly ones who are our political allies, are not that thin-skinned and certainly don’t shy from a debate. If charges of anti-Semitism were made against people here during the Lamont campaign, that simply demonstrates how cynically the accusation is made these days. It should also demonstrate how that incantation has lost its magic power.
Your view of “anti-Semitism” as some permanent affliction that is either more or less dormant at any given time is irrational. Things change. Jews were not the establishment sixty years ago. They’re part of it now, and, more importantly, they’ve participated in our culture so long and so influentially that real anti-Semitism — the kind of deeds, not thoughts — is going the way of anti-Catholicism (just as prevalent, by the way, among evangelical Protestants, by the way). And the idea that anti-Arab bigotry is a species of “anti-Semitism” is simply a semantic contortion; accurate or not, it means in common parlance anti-Jewish. By the way, what I found so offensive about all this manufactured hysteria about “The Passion” was that pretty much everyone who expressed their patently phoney fears about the movie (which I didn’t see) in the press were pro-war Jews (Krauthammer, Wieseltier, Ruth Himmelfarb, Anne Applebaum, others). And somehow Mel Gibson’s “drunken anti-Semitic tirade”, which occurred during the pulverization of Lebanon, was the bigger news.
I bet we agree on something: some Democrat has to take it to these fuckers at A*P*C, especially when they boo ours. Call it a Sistah Souljah moment.
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
A very right-on post indeed.
The Internet is a “megaphone”? You mean I can turn my internet up when I’m reading “left of center” blogs and force everybody else at work to listen to my views?
What a whiner.
Every time I turn around, there’s another wiener like this who Broder-like is trying to tell people not to expect their elected officials to live up to anything like their campaign promises. Broder’s solecisms come with the rest of the newspaper which I only still like because of comics, local arts coverage, theatre reviews and movie reviews. Broder’s opinion doesn’t cost any more. But what’s Rothenberg’s market. He doesn’t even have pictures. Do people pay money for this crap?
“Maybe Democratic leaders could have done a better job preparing angry party activists for the passage of the spending bill, possibly sparing Hill Democrats the nasty e-mails and angry comments on liberal blogs, but I doubt it.”
I don’t understand this common whine among the MSM and politicians about sparing “the congressman”, “senator”, “reporters” or “editors”, etc. from the commentary of the bloggers? From Joe Klein to Joe Lieberman we hear this wail.
Give me patience!
Why should we hold back our honestly held beliefs and opinions. If they think bloggers and those who comment on the blogs are rude, one-sided, even profane, what about what they put out there? At least all the bloggers I read source their material, liberally. These pusillanimous poofs just shoot from the hip, the truth be dammed.
They lie, insult our intelligence and just plain get things wrong because they can’t be bothered to look up the facts. They may not use profanity as easily as some of us do, but those are the rules of their game and we aren’t playing their game any longer. It’s corrupt and rigged in their favor.
We, the people, are the ones living and dying in the mess they created, or supported, or couldn’t be bothered to report. Even when we tell them in no uncertain terms with our votes to clean it up, change course, restore the Constitution and the rule of law, they ignore us.
We have every reason to react passionately to the horrors, indignities and madness we’ve been subjected to over the last 6 years. We aren’t going gently into that good night. We have to kick them hard just to get their damn attention. I think we have it.