Happy 4th, gang!

I’ll be in an out, as I’m making empanadas in the kitchen. Let me roll out a few more, the dough I mean, and set them on the baking sheet, and I’ll be back, in and out.

HOWARD DEAN!

Happy Underpants Day!

I worry about Hillary’s money from the health insurance industry.

Sunshine!!

From the pix at the top. “who knew”? Give me a break.

My contempt for Hillary Clinton will never subside.

mmmm empenadas.

Actually, I don’t think I’ve ever had one. But I’ll bet Pach’s empenadas are good.

well, I tried watching some tennis between the rain delays. Me thinks Wimbledon’s finals might have to shift a day later, unless they have remarkable weather for the next couple of days.

Off to read the linkies in Pach’s post…

What’s worse than a second Clinton in the WH?

A third BUSH!

Hi Pach!
thanks, I can see clearer now

Can a candidate which supports big bidness, and receives huge help from big business be a progressive? And most importantly, be good for what ails this country? Now I ask you.

Or is that supposed o be the other way around?

Lou Costello @ 9

A third BUSH!

Or any Republican, really.

We need to change the Democratic party.

But let’s not lose focus. It’s not just Hillary Clinton who is making alliances with big business. This is a more systemic issue, more than one player in involved.

You know, mentioning empanadas and not sharing the recipe is cruel and unusual blogging…I’m just saying…

Christy: I’m thinking I may save the recipe for some kind of fundraiser: maybe publish it when we reach a specific goal? Maybe linked to immigration?

What do you think?

Oh, and if you come to DC, I’ll make you some, if I have time. I’ll be giving some of this batch to Jane. She had some during Take Back America and liked them a lot.

Hey Pach, I am making a quiche. Not something one would normally do on 4th of July, but with our weather . . . It should be in the high 80’s or low 90’s by now. Instead it is 72 and raining. My yard is so saturated I have to wear wellies to go about!

empanadas were a big hit at our house Christmas Eve. Inquiring minds want your recipe….

Prairie Sunshine @ 17

empanadas were a big hit at our house Christmas Eve. Inquiring minds want your recipe….

And not all inquiring minds are patient….

Honestly, the Supreme’s decision on campaign money was one of the more depressing of any recent, to my mind.

Whenever I am surveyed, my top issues are the war and campaign finance reform. I think the latter is the critical link to restoring our democracy.

Is a candidate who receives the second largest largesse from the health industry ( info from Michael Moore) of any candidate (Hillary) possess the motivation to solve the health problems of everyday working women, men and their children of America?

Yeah, just what we need George W. Bush in a dress. The Hill is not the answer to our current set of problems. She screwed health-care up the last time and I very much doubt she has any real idea about how to deal with this.

Or the disaster her hubby created with NAFTA.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Maybe FDL needs a cookbook for fundraising–international recipes to honor all our heritages so we don’t forget we were once, too, immigrants.

Interesting post Pach! (and I want some empanadas too!)

People tend to think of corporate powers are pro-republican, but I find the ones I work with are just pro-whoever-makes-their-companies-more-profitable
and the Bush team may have helped some companies (Halliburton, etc) but has not been in tune with a lot that companies worry about – global reputation, climate change, etc. Support for a Hillary in particular makes sense … she wouldn’t rock the boat but she would prob. create a more stable environment for them.

What exactly is the object of Senator Clinton aspirations? To be a statesperson or to be prez? True these objectives need not be mutually exclusive. But I question Clinton’s motives.

For some unexplained reason this morning, and I really can’t put my finger on it, visions of Buzz Windrip and Obama started to morph in my head. Aside from the anti-biotics queezy stomach this just kind of piled on. Is it just me?

And I don’t like Obama either.

Edwards/Edwards ‘08

Prairie Sunshine @ 27

Edwards/Edwards ‘08

Which one is first?

Are there any members of the DLC who would not be considered ‘elite’?

Hillary Clinton isn’t the only candidate to visit Israel recently. All the top tier have. Additionally, she spent several hours last Wednesday with Benjamin Netanyahu, discussing military action against Iran.

She’s the only Democratic candidate to have visited the apertheid wall. She praised it.

Hillary also made her way to the great apartheid wall, which separates Palestine from Israel. As the barrier is nearing completion, the monstrosity will ultimately stretch to over 400 miles in length.

Palestinians rightly criticize the obtrusive wall on the grounds that it cuts them off from occupied land in the West Bank. Thousands more will be cut off from their jobs, schools, and essential farmland.

Hillary and her pro-Israel buds don’t get it. When you put powerless Palestinians behind a jail-like wall where life in any real economic sense is unattainable, you wreak pain and anguish, which in turn leads to more anger and resentment toward the Israeli government’s brutal policies. Indeed, the wall will not prove to be a deterrent to resistance, but an incitement to defiance.

“This is not against the Palestinian people,” Clinton said as she gazed over the massive wall. “This is against the terrorists. The Palestinian people have to help to prevent terrorism. They have to change the attitudes about terrorism.”

both first in my heart.

Edwards/Edwards
is a two-fer I can go fer….

I’ll stay with Gore. ;0)

bonkers @ 28

Prairie Sunshine @ 27

Edwards/Edwards ‘08

Which one is first?

she is

Is Hillary Lieberman-lite?

I have watched Hillary for 26 years and don’t have a clue what she would do as President; other than be ruthless and competent. If she and Bill, as has be alleged, made long terms plans for the Presidency 25-30 years ago; then what is strategy and what is core belief. Only Hillary knows but I think big business might be in for an unpleasant surprise.

Question…I just read pretty much all the comments on the Libby non pardon over on dkos and was wondering if because theres no law to cover the probation aspect of his sentence and according to what I read over there, Libby is in legal limbo.

So my question is if that’s true than can Libby’s appeal still go forward? Wouldn’t the issue of his probation need to be addressed first before an appeal for the sentence move on to the courts? If so why?

It would appear too me that since the judge can’t issue a ruling on the issue of carrying out that part of the sentence since Judges don’t write the law and the congress will be in no rush to write a law to cover the bush non-pardon than how can the appeal go forward without that being resolved?

I would find it funny that bush would be forced to pardon Libby now since he would be a felon until his appeal could be heard. And if it couldn’t be heard until the probation issue is resolved than bush would have too pardon him.

Am I correct or not and if I am would Libby or should I say could Libby be forced to stay in virginia where he lives not being able to travel outside his state of resident.

Any thoughts on this?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 34

Is Hillary Lieberman-lite?

Not quite. In Louisiana she is called “the old regulars”. You never get rid of them and they bring in their cronies.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 34

Is Hillary Lieberman-lite?

sounds like maybe could be

ET@30:

“This is not against the Palestinian people,” Clinton said as she gazed over the massive wall. “This is against the terrorists. The Palestinian people have to help to prevent terrorism. They have to change the attitudes about terrorism.”

She really sounds so much like bush.

Hey, gang! I’m back from my family reunion; did I miss anything? :-P

Steve says
July 4th, 2007 at 10:02 am

Only Hillary knows but I think big business might be in for an unpleasant surprise.

If you can’t take their money, drink their liquor and still vote against them, you have no business being a politician.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 34

Is Hillary Lieberman-lite?

That would be Obama, Joe’s “mentee”

Steve @ 42

Oklahoma kiddo @ 34

Is Hillary Lieberman-lite?

That would be Obama, Joe’s “mentee”

Both….

Gnome de Plume @ 16

Hey Pach, I am making a quiche. Not something one would normally do on 4th of July, but with our weather . . . It should be in the high 80’s or low 90’s by now. Instead it is 72 and raining. My yard is so saturated I have to wear wellies to go about!

OK, that’s weird. I planned to make a quiche today.

It’s probably in the low 70s here in MI. Great weather to grill food, but we’re supposed to head out to a party this evening, so I’m making something that’ll last in the fridge a few days.

Alan Johnston live on Beeb now … what a joy to hear him free and alive!

Hillary loves corporate giants. Healthcare will be tokenism for citizens (and any others for that matter). I feel like Ayn Rand is running. That is seriously scary. Another elitist. I think the Clintons and Bushies need to spend a few years on a mountain top in the Andes living among the Indians so they can get their feet on the ground. They are floating in never-never-land.

Ed*ard Teller @ 30

“This is not against the Palestinian people,” Clinton said as she gazed over the massive wall. “This is against the terrorists. The Palestinian people have to help to prevent terrorism. They have to change the attitudes about terrorism.”

Ah yes. Just like in Iraq, where it’s the Iraqis fault for not “standing up” to stop the violence. Nice to get a little peek into her heavily guarded soul, where blaming the victim is fine and dandy. I wonder if Hillary feels the same way about rape survivors? You know, revealing clothing means they were asking for it….

Jeezus, I am so tired of this attitude. The neocons invade a country, where no one was asking for our “help” except maybe some people who didn’t even live there like Chalabi, which unleashes a civil war that is killing hundreds of thousands, they steal the resources, and now they blame the Iraqis for the strife that is now unfolding. WTF?!?

Ed*ard Teller @ 30

Hillary Clinton isn’t the only candidate to visit Israel recently. All the top tier have. Additionally, she spent several hours last Wednesday with Benjamin Netanyahu, discussing military action against Iran.

She’s the only Democratic candidate to have visited the apertheid wall. She praised it.

Hillary also made her way to the great apartheid wall, which separates Palestine from Israel. As the barrier is nearing completion, the monstrosity will ultimately stretch to over 400 miles in length.

Palestinians rightly criticize the obtrusive wall on the grounds that it cuts them off from occupied land in the West Bank. Thousands more will be cut off from their jobs, schools, and essential farmland.

Hillary and her pro-Israel buds don’t get it. When you put powerless Palestinians behind a jail-like wall where life in any real economic sense is unattainable, you wreak pain and anguish, which in turn leads to more anger and resentment toward the Israeli government’s brutal policies. Indeed, the wall will not prove to be a deterrent to resistance, but an incitement to defiance.

“This is not against the Palestinian people,” Clinton said as she gazed over the massive wall. “This is against the terrorists. The Palestinian people have to help to prevent terrorism. They have to change the attitudes about terrorism.”

Good God.

I had to explain to my spouse — executive for a small manufacturing firm — that just because he as a right-leaning independent though HRC had the Dem nod, that he wasn’t necessarily right. He had no clue she was a DINO, but his interest in her and his position as a business executive says a lot, doesn’t it?

Ed*ard Teller @ 30

Hillary Clinton isn’t the only candidate to visit Israel recently. All the top tier have. Additionally, she spent several hours last Wednesday with Benjamin Netanyahu, discussing military action against Iran.

She’s the only Democratic candidate to have visited the apertheid wall. She praised it.

Hillary also made her way to the great apartheid wall, which separates Palestine from Israel. As the barrier is nearing completion, the monstrosity will ultimately stretch to over 400 miles in length.

Palestinians rightly criticize the obtrusive wall on the grounds that it cuts them off from occupied land in the West Bank. Thousands more will be cut off from their jobs, schools, and essential farmland.

Hillary and her pro-Israel buds don’t get it. When you put powerless Palestinians behind a jail-like wall where life in any real economic sense is unattainable, you wreak pain and anguish, which in turn leads to more anger and resentment toward the Israeli government’s brutal policies. Indeed, the wall will not prove to be a deterrent to resistance, but an incitement to defiance.

“This is not against the Palestinian people,” Clinton said as she gazed over the massive wall. “This is against the terrorists. The Palestinian people have to help to prevent terrorism. They have to change the attitudes about terrorism.”

well, for a supposedly smart person she is awfully stupid.

when i visited the west bank in 2002, the apartheid wall was just getting started. every place i participated in the palestinian olive harvest is now behind the wall. palestinians separated from their own land – and in no case was that required to separate palestinians from israelis… out and out land theft… from families that had been harvesting olives on the same land for generations. one familiy i harvested with had only been on that land for about 500 years, i was told, a relatively short period of time compared to other families in the villiage.

we have no idea the depth of attachment that comes from such a long association with a specific piece of land.

if senator clinton thinks the apartheid wall is going to futher the long term safety of israelis or americans (let alone palestinians)… she is a very stupid person who’s lack of judgement ought to preclude her from a role in our foreign policy.

if she knows better, and yet still advocates for the apartheid wall… then i fail to see how she is any better than the neocons.

QuakerGirl … I’d rather send them all to live amongst the people whose lives they have had such “good” “liberating” ideas for … in Iraq, Palestine, Iran …

Siun @ 50

QuakerGirl … I’d rather send them all to live amongst the people whose lives they have had such “good” “liberating” ideas for … in Iraq, Palestine, Iran …

I agree. If you have a policy, put your body where your mouth is – in the forefront of the battle and “stay until the job is done.”

I won’t vote for any candidate who does not advocate taking apart the basis for this damnable Unitary Executive.

So far, length_of_list == 0.

OT drive-by, then off on the bike:

Judge Walton’s footnote:

If either party believes that it would be helpful to solicit clarification from the White House regarding the President’s position on the proper interpretation of Section 3583 in light of his Grant of Executive Clemency, they are encouraged to do so.

Would someone please tell Reggie that, in spite of what he may believe, he is not a Republican? Republicans simply cannot do fine legal snark like that.

selise @ 49

…if senator clinton thinks the apartheid wall is going to futher the long term safety of israelis or americans (let alone palestinians)… she is a very stupid person who’s lack of judgement ought to preclude her from a role in our foreign policy.

if she knows better, and yet still advocates for the apartheid wall… then i fail to see how she is any better than the neocons.

Insert “Mexican border fence” for “apartheid wall” and Mexico and America for Israel-Palestine-USA and you have yet another significant argument as to why HRC shouldn’t get the nod.

It is a fundamental human right that people must be free to move at will; if a wall or fence must be built between countries, the problem motivating its construction will not be solved by erecting a barrier that inhibits the human right to move freely.

If she cannot grok this, she is not a liberal or progressive candidate.

Reading and hearing speculation about Hilliary, reminds me of the “Blind man and the elephant”.

I think Matt Stoller is right in that I don’t believe Hillary is lying when she says these things about national security and kind of kinder, gentler imperialism. She’s not craven, in the sense that she’s not just posturing. It’s what she believes.

I respect Senator Clinton’s gifts, talents and abilities greatly. I will argue the necessity of supporting the eventual Democratic party nominee.

That said, as an outside progressive movement, we need to help the country pursue and appreciate the rightness of a progressive ideology.

Obama’s commutation statement, laced with soft Liebermanisms demonizing ideology and preaching kumbaya, also miss the point, in my view.

behindthefall @ 52

I won’t vote for any candidate who does not advocate taking apart the basis for this damnable Unitary Executive.

So far, length_of_list == 0.

An important point, and one that all Republicans (and many Democrats) seem to miss. All of the power that Bush is gathering for himself will be transferred to the next president. And Republicans really don’t seem to realize that if (when) that president turns out to be a Democrat, well, in the words of Jack Torrance:

“You’ve got a big surprise coming to you.”

Off to play patriotic music…..later, pups

Elliott @ 38

Oklahoma kiddo @ 34

Is Hillary Lieberman-lite?

sounds like maybe could be

Bill & Hillary are Republican-Lite. Who knew that the repubs had candidates running in both parties? Want Change? There’s nothing like a little revolution on the Fourth of July via John Lennon’s Revolution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8×0LdBVMO7g

Ed*ard Teller @ 58

Off to play patriotic music…..later, pups

go 4th

My favorite cousin (she’s Mexican) is making green and red chile pisole for the 4th. of July dinner this afternoon. Gawd is this stuff to die for! I’m doing BBQ briskit, chicken and ribs. There will be creamed potatoes, fried corn bread, bread done the old way with wild plum jam canned last weekend, okra, frozen from last year, and fresh from one of our gardens, tomato and onion salad. Water melon, home made ice cream, sodas, iced coffee, Mexican beer and iced tea. Ya’ll come! ;0) Happy Fourth.

Rayne @ 54

Insert “Mexican border fence” for “apartheid wall” and Mexico and America for Israel-Palestine-USA and you have yet another significant argument as to why HRC shouldn’t get the nod.

It is a fundamental human right that people must be free to move at will; if a wall or fence must be built between countries, the problem motivating its construction will not be solved by erecting a barrier that inhibits the human right to move freely.

If she cannot grok this, she is not a liberal or progressive candidate.

there is one difference though, a mexican fence wouldn’t separate mexicans from their own land. while i deplore a mexican fence for the reasons you note, it is not as bad as what has been happening in the israeli occupied territories.

Be right there, OKK!

What’s pisole?

Pachacutec @ 56

I think Matt Stoller is right in that I don’t believe Hillary is lying when she says these things about national security and kind of kinder, gentler imperialism. She’s not craven, in the sense that she’s not just posturing. It’s what she believes.

I respect Senator Clinton’s gifts, talents and abilities greatly. I will argue the necessity of supporting the eventual Democratic party nominee.

That said, as an outside progressive movement, we need to help the country pursue and appreciate the rightness of a progressive ideology.

Obama’s commutation statement, laced with soft Liebermanisms demonizing ideology and preaching kumbaya, also miss the point, in my view.

Agreed. Both of them have the low information dem voter bamboozled. The question is how do we manage to educate them without sounding like DFHs in la la land? And without hurting the dem brand.

Some things we can be sure of if H. Clinton becomes Prez, there will be no form of Fairness Doctrine, or a slow-down/reversal of media consolidation. Not with friends like these.

These media issues are extremely important for restoring our Constitution. Let’s hope Rupert never demands a multi-tiered Internet if Hillary is Prez.

this is why we need public financing of elections

this is why we need to rescind person hood for corporations

and this is why we need a constitutional amendment which eliminates the definition of money as “free speech”

“free speech” and “money” are antithetical and it took some novel thought process to come up with that notion

since the supreme court made that decision we need a constitutional amendment rescinding their wealthy self serviing, novel and bizarre interpretation of what is and what isn’t speech

I hope Gore runs..that being said, if, by mid-September, he isn’t in; who do you support..and the reality is its either Hillary or Obama.

Thanks for calling attention to this, Pach. Do you think we can get Hillary to join the “single payor health system” group at FaceBook?

I’ll take Hillary. And Bill. And Chelsea. I have a feeling we’re going to need all three.

Rupert Murdoch hosts fundraisers for her and her biggest personnel contributor is Larry Silverstein.

selise @ 62

Rayne @ 54

Insert “Mexican border fence” for “apartheid wall” and Mexico and America for Israel-Palestine-USA and you have yet another significant argument as to why HRC shouldn’t get the nod.

It is a fundamental human right that people must be free to move at will; if a wall or fence must be built between countries, the problem motivating its construction will not be solved by erecting a barrier that inhibits the human right to move freely.

If she cannot grok this, she is not a liberal or progressive candidate.

there is one difference though, a mexican fence wouldn’t separate mexicans from their own land. while i deplore a mexican fence for the reasons you note, it is not as bad as what has been happening in the israeli occupied territories.

How do Mexicans get back home? They are stuck here now, many cannot go back because of security issues that prevent transit, and others because nothing but poverty awaits them. It is only because it is not built on Mexican soil that we haven’t seen attacks by Mexicans on Americans.

In both cases, the wall does not solve the fundamental problems. In both cases economic development — within Palestine and within Mexico — that improved the lives of the lowest half/two-thirds of the population would dramatically change the scenario.

Unfortunately, the upper half/one-third in both cases do not want any changes to the status quo.

Pachacutec @ 56

I think Matt Stoller is right in that I don’t believe Hillary is lying when she says these things about national security and kind of kinder, gentler imperialism. She’s not craven, in the sense that she’s not just posturing. It’s what she believes.

I respect Senator Clinton’s gifts, talents and abilities greatly. I will argue the necessity of supporting the eventual Democratic party nominee.

That said, as an outside progressive movement, we need to help the country pursue and appreciate the rightness of a progressive ideology.

Obama’s commutation statement, laced with soft Liebermanisms demonizing ideology and preaching kumbaya, also miss the point, in my view.

i think you’re probably right. except that my money and time is a zero sum game – and i have better things to do than support senator clinton for president.

Business likes winners. If another candidate wins the nomination they will get a lot of money as well because a Democrat is favored in the next election, it hardly indicates a quid pro quo. Hillary has one of the most liberal voting records in Congress, and is actually doing something about expanding health care(S-CHip) now in the Senate, not just talking about what she will do as president. None of these candidates is particularly adverse to business, though Edwards comes the closest. Obama is more conservative than Hillary, but people just like to ascribe whatever they want to him.

I’ve been away from the toobz for a a bit. Anybody know if Gore has commented on bush’s abstruction of justice (commutation)?

AlexandriaCynic @ 74

I’ve been away from the toobz for a a bit. Anybody know if Gore has commented on bush’s abstruction of justice (commutation)?

Not that I’ve seen. Last article I saw was in a tech mag about Steve Jobs’ proposal that Gore run for POTUS.

Rayne @ 71

How do Mexicans get back home? They are stuck here now, many cannot go back because of security issues that prevent transit, and others because nothing but poverty awaits them. It is only because it is not built on Mexican soil that we haven’t seen attacks by Mexicans on Americans.

In both cases, the wall does not solve the fundamental problems. In both cases economic development — within Palestine and within Mexico — that improved the lives of the lowest half/two-thirds of the population would dramatically change the scenario.

Unfortunately, the upper half/one-third in both cases do not want any changes to the status quo.

i don’t disagree with you about mexico/usa/fence/immigration… but the major problem in the israeli occupied territories is not primarily one of economic development. it’s ethnic cleansing (removing people from the land) and apartheid and humiliation and violent oppression. the upper half/one-third do want change. they want the israelis to leave them alone.

there are differences.

It is an ongoing struggle between the vision of what we could be and the principles we would live by and the sordid realities of a political system in which money has always played a great role, although never so much as now.

Corporations and the wealthy have their preferences, but the truth is they feel they can buy the winner, his or her people, or the Congress. So in the end they win, which is as it should be. In their eyes, they own the system. They have certainly paid for it.

It will continue this way until money is no longer considered free speech and is effectively removed from our electoral process. Barring that, we will have the best or worst government that money can buy, but bought it will be.

Phoenix Woman is upstairs celebrating Jerry Rivers’ BD. [sigh]

Bring a flame thrower to light the candles.

Steve @ 67

I hope Gore runs..that being said, if, by mid-September, he isn’t in; who do you support..and the reality is its either Hillary or Obama.

Actually, is it necessary to support one or another?

Our Blue America list is a place you can concentrate your energy that will really be about change.

Rayne @ 78

Phoenix Woman is upstairs celebrating Jerry Rivers’ BD. [sigh]

Bring a flame thrower to light the candles.

Geraldo’s back door? Bad disk? Bondage and discipline? The possibilities are endless!

Steve @ 67

I hope Gore runs..that being said, if, by mid-September, he isn’t in; who do you support..and the reality is its either Hillary or Obama.

Let’s give Gore to October after he will (deservedly) be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. He is worth waiting for even if we have to draft him through national grass roots acclamation.

ReElect President Al Gore in 2008!
Accept no substitute.

John Edwards would make a fabulous Vice President.

Poetic and Frontier justice! ;~)

Why we need the estate tax? And one reason Gore won’t run?

Al Gore III, 24, was driving a blue Toyota Prius about 100 mph on the San Diego Freeway when he was pulled over at about 2:15 a.m., Sheriff’s Department spokesman Jim Amormino said.

The deputies said they smelled marijuana and searched the car, Amormino said. They found less than an ounce of marijuana along with Xanax, Valium, Vicodin and Adderall,…

Gore was being held in the men’s central jail in Santa Ana on $20,000 bail.

To which I’ll also add: Paris Hilton, Drew Clapp, all Bushes….

Oklahoma kiddo @ 61

My favorite cousin (she’s Mexican) is making green and red chile pisole for the 4th. of July dinner this afternoon. Gawd is this stuff to die for! I’m doing BBQ briskit, chicken and ribs. There will be creamed potatoes, fried corn bread, bread done the old way with wild plum jam canned last weekend, okra, frozen from last year, and fresh from one of our gardens, tomato and onion salad. Water melon, home made ice cream, sodas, iced coffee, Mexican beer and iced tea. Ya’ll come! ;0) Happy Fourth.

Got room for one more? This might not have been the best day to start a diet :)

selise @ 76

Rayne @ 71

How do Mexicans get back home? They are stuck here now, many cannot go back because of security issues that prevent transit, and others because nothing but poverty awaits them. It is only because it is not built on Mexican soil that we haven’t seen attacks by Mexicans on Americans.

In both cases, the wall does not solve the fundamental problems. In both cases economic development — within Palestine and within Mexico — that improved the lives of the lowest half/two-thirds of the population would dramatically change the scenario.

Unfortunately, the upper half/one-third in both cases do not want any changes to the status quo.

i don’t disagree with you about mexico/usa/fence/immigration… but the major problem in the israeli occupied territories is not primarily one of economic development. it’s ethnic cleansing (removing people from the land) and apartheid and humiliation and violent oppression. the upper half/one-third do want change. they want the israelis to leave them alone.

there are differences.

By upper half/one-third and lower levels I was referring to people on both sides of the partition.

We have ethnic cleansing here in the states as well; sweeps for illegal immigrants to be rounded up and detained has a strongly racial component. We aren’t hearing a lot about european/eurasian illegals getting swept up, and they are definitely here.

Don’t get me wrong, selise; the failure of political will to create a safe Palestinian state is as much to blame for the tensions across the entire middle east as petroleum. But we continue to play out the same solutions to similar problems and they don’t work, whether in the middle east or in our backyard. If we can’t muster the political will to solve one, we won’t be able to solve the other.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 61

My favorite cousin (she’s Mexican) is making green and red chile pisole for the 4th. of July dinner this afternoon. Gawd is this stuff to die for! I’m doing BBQ briskit, chicken and ribs. There will be creamed potatoes, fried corn bread, bread done the old way with wild plum jam canned last weekend, okra, frozen from last year, and fresh from one of our gardens, tomato and onion salad. Water melon, home made ice cream, sodas, iced coffee, Mexican beer and iced tea. Ya’ll come! ;0) Happy Fourth.

Talk about torture! Someone aught to report you to Amnesty International :))

Al Gore III, 24, was driving a blue Toyota Prius about 100 mph on the San Diego Freeway when he was pulled over at about 2:15 a.m., Sheriff’s Department spokesman Jim Amormino said.

The deputies said they smelled marijuana and searched the car, Amormino said. They found less than an ounce of marijuana along with Xanax, Valium, Vicodin and Adderall,…

Gore was being held in the men’s central jail in Santa Ana on $20,000 bail.

Ok, so maybe he was dealing a little, or just blissfully stoned, but – hey -he *was* in a Prius, fer chrissakes. I’ll take the Green Judge for all the marbles, please, Alex.

Rayne @ 84

By upper half/one-third and lower levels I was referring to people on both sides of the partition.

We have ethnic cleansing here in the states as well; sweeps for illegal immigrants to be rounded up and detained has a strongly racial component. We aren’t hearing a lot about european/eurasian illegals getting swept up, and they are definitely here.

Don’t get me wrong, selise; the failure of political will to create a safe Palestinian state is as much to blame for the tensions across the entire middle east as petroleum. But we continue to play out the same solutions to similar problems and they don’t work, whether in the middle east or in our backyard. If we can’t muster the political will to solve one, we won’t be able to solve the other.

we’re just going to have to agree to disagree then. i completely disagree that half or a third of the palestinians want the status quo. i think that’s just bullshit.

Everythingseemssoneat @ 70

Rupert Murdoch hosts fundraisers for her and her biggest personnel contributor is Larry Silverstein.

Who is Larry Silverstein?

Kudos to Pachutec & FDL for honest coverage of SHillary’s corporate and imperialist ties. I was awfully disappointed (2?) mths. back when she appeared on this site to sell her fake “alternative”– 24 yrs. of Bush-Clinton dynasties is 16 yrs. too long, imho.
And kudos to the FDL community for honest, fair commentary on the Israeli apartheid system that doesn’t demonize the Palestinians as terrorist untermenschen like our MSM (& LIEberwhore & SHillary et. al) do. Reclaim this country! Throw the fascists out, and arrange for their war crimes trials (let’s see King Georgie try to arrange a pardon for Scootie at the Hague!)

Hillary clinton in ‘08 would be more of the same.

I was watching KKK at the Clinton School of Public Service at the U of Arkansas today, and I am convinced he is enfatuated with her. On that note, it is my firm belief that the Boomer generation, with exceptions obviously, are made up of two groups of people (excluding the ladies, and I don’t intend to demean their role, but dealing only with the guys fits in to the analogy): The Billy Clintons, John Kerrys, Ted Kennedys, Al Gores and others who were cool, handsome, smoked some grass, partied, got laid AN AWFUL LOT, and pretty much got their say from the 60’s, fought and won many battles during the 80’s and owned the 90s. I’ll call them the Cool Guys.

The other group of guys, The Nerds, are made up of KKK, Tom Delay, Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich and others who were losers, not so bright, did not do drugs, did NOT SCORE WITH THE LADIES, have terrible sex, or in Rush’s case, only with 14 year old Dom. Rep. girls, and got their asses handed to them by the Cool Guys in DC and in the culture wars. They bided their time, fought dirty, lied, cheated and stole, found someone who was on the fringe of the Cool Guys, propped him up, stole a couple of elections and now have run this country’s principals into the ground. They aren’t “Republicans”, because most who consider themselves republicans are tired of these guys–Hell, H.W. fired Rove, for cryin’ out loud. It is the Revenge of the Nerds, and it is time to get rid of them, and their arch enemies, the Cool Guys, out of DC and move in some fresh blood.

Edwards or Obama for President

MarkH @ 88

From the official press release of the Port Authority of NY/NJ.

nothing scary, just an official press release from April 26, 2001.

PORT AUTHORITY TO LEASE WORLD TRADE CENTER TO SILVERSTEIN PROPERTIES, INC. AND WESTFIELD AMERICA, INC.

Six months before the 9/11 attacks the World Trade Center was “privatized” by being leased to a private sector developer. The lease was purchased by the Silverstein Group for $3.2 billion. “This is a dream come true,” Larry Silverstein said. “We will be in control of a prized asset, and we will seek to develop its potential, raising it to new heights.”

sorry I can’t say more, mods will delete posts.

This is EXACTLY why I don’t support Hillary and only marginally like Obama.

Hillary is going to be just another effing corporatist in the WH. It will piss me off to no end.

Edwards ‘08!

Hillary will not lead us astray. She will reflect that constancy that pervades the incoming hordes of inflection. She has that special divine apptitude that invites the homage of the enlightened. To say otherwise would be to divide and assimilate the contrary of the opposite of that which is different. Down with the tyrants!Up with the fourth form!

We do indeed need new blood in this election. Perhaps T.R. Baskin? U.N. owen? Maybe even Thomas G. bullhowitz of the P.L.G.H. shire? Think about it.

Nobody can be ‘elected’ president of the US without being already a safely vetted, corrupted, sold-out, CorpoRat…
nagahapun…

Oklahoma kiddo @ 61
My favorite cousin (she’s Mexican) is making green and red chile pisole for the 4th. of July dinner this afternoon.

The Spelling Nazi sez:
It’s posole…

The DLC was organized to take over the party for big business. They won. Greaseball Willy was the leader of the DLC. So, this is a very old story.

Ari Berman had an article in June 4, 2007 copy of The Nation, about Hillary’s connections to business, and her key campaign staff are lobbyists. I recommend it even if it is an old story. The DLC has always been pro-corporations/pro-business. While I think Hillary is on the move and the rise, these ties are my greatest concern about her: what she will do about foreign trade agreements, the economy, non-productive changes to the health care system etc.