boxer -

For what it’s worth, I didn’t see your raising the question about our own insularity (if there is such a word) as a criticism. I heard it more benignly. It is always a good question in my opinion to ask oneself. To be self-aware as well as having a keen eye for the shadow outside which strikes me as the domain of politics. Personally, I don’t know if I’m able to live a spiritual life which calls for self-examination and inquiry, and engage in politics as an extension of that spiritual life and not distorting it, if that makes any sense.

I understand and very much respect the thoughtfulness of your comments. I hope life is treating you well. Sincerity is unfortunately rare these days. The world needs more people like you.

For what it’s worth, I didn’t see your raising the question about our own insularity (if there is such a word) as a criticism. I heard it more benignly. It is always a good question in my opinion to ask oneself. To be self-aware as well as having a keen eye for the shadow outside which strikes me as the domain of politics. Personally, I don’t know if I’m able to live a spiritual life which calls for self-examination and inquiry, and engage in politics as an extension of that spiritual life and not distorting it, if that makes any sense.

Look at all the complaints our founding fathers had against King George in England. Look how many are true today about King George of CT and Midland TX:

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

And don’t forget the one about sending his agents amongst us who commit crimes and are protected by sham trials…Bush has essentially made a sham of the Judicial system.

He has insulted the Grand Jurors, the Prosecutor, the Jury, Judge Walton (his own appointee), the Appellate Court Judges, and the LAW! He has stripped all meaning out of the sentencing guidelines!

It gives credence to Paris Hilton’s whining…after all she spent 22 days in jail for a misdemeanor charge of driving on a suspended license.

Libby gets off with ZERO days for FOUR FELONIES that relate to lying in a case that involved exposing a COVERT CIA Officer that was still travelling abroad on WMD-related missions when Novak exposed her duties!

“LARRY KING: Do you think the judge was unkind?

HILTON: You know, my lawyers even said that with this kind — it wasn’t for a DUI, it was for a suspended license — that people only — I was walking in there assuming I was just going to get community service. That’s what my lawyer said at the time. So when he sentenced me to that much time in jail, it was shocking, because that doesn’t happen, ever.”

Paris Hilton ~ 22 days…Bush didn’t commute HER SENTENCE!

In fact has he ever commuted anyone elses sentence BEFORE they served even ONE DAY? In ALL his years as Governor or President???

Did he ever show the same regard to all those milions of “first-time offenders” that had to serve jail time? Did he strike 30 months off THEIR SENTENCES because they were “nice guys”? “Parents”? Only committed a little perjury and destroyed evidence?

I was only aware of Bush giving pardons to people years after they had served their sentences…not before? Of people who admitted their guilt and reformed their lives?

But if he ever did something like this I’d like the Bushbots to point it out!

boxer — your sense of fun doesn’t seem like encouragement as much as provocation, and by more than myself based on reactions upthread from others.

You may perceive my and our responses as insecurity and weakness; far from it. This quite simply is a community that no longer takes provocations lying down. Frankly, playing nicely and being dispassionately logical has landed us where we are today, under the thumb of an overgrown fratboy who only understands force and under whom logic has been banished as politically unacceptable.

And logic has yet to crack any conservative’s opinion, in my observation; all my cool, reasoned discussions with them have been for naught. It’s taken ubiquitously human tragedy and pain before they realized they had no safety net save that purchased by liberals. Then and only then has any effort I’ve made hit home.

War-damaged son? cracked open their consciousness about the foolishness of this war.

Suffering and dying babies? cracked open any conservative religious tenet and exposed it as hypocritical its lack of mercy for its abhorrence of abortion.

Slow, lingering death borne in genes? cracked open the fakery of the culture of life for what it was in its avoidance of stem cell research.

Ethos and logos did not seal the deal. Only mutual human pathos did it.

I can’t believe I’m going to take time out of my 4th to respond to this. But, I suppose, on the offhand chance that there are third parties monitoring our dialog, I owe them something. Where to start?
First, your reaction was, and is, predictable. This means someone can push your buttons and make you do things. You are way too easy to manipulate.
Second, if someone goes back a follows this conversation from its inception, they will see that you so were completely blinded by self-righteousness that you were unable to grasp what the conversation was about – always question authority and never allow ourselves to become too comfortable.
Third, in all of the examples you gave, the force for change came from outside events, beyond anyone’s control. If this is the only way, then there is no point in any of this.
Fourth, the examples you site, in your case may lead to positive change, but that is not necessarily the rule. In the majority of circumstances, human suffering leads to more human suffering. For every Cindy Sheehan there are 100 Iraqi fathers, sons, brothers, and mothers, who want to get even.
Lastly, and most importantly the phrase “playing nicely and being dispassionately logical has landed us where we are today” is the language of death. These words, usually coming from Bush, Cheney, Rove, etc…ARE THE WORDS that have landed us where we are today. The reason to use logic, no one said it should be dispassionate, is to avoid emotional overreaction. If you won’t let yourself understand this you will never have peace

Eli wrote: the mainstream corporate media keeps pretending that the Republican positions are mainstream positions.

In the Corporate State, corporate media are State media.

The interview is on c-span 2 and was done @ George Mason U by a Presidential histornia

Ethos and logos did not seal the deal. Only mutual human pathos did it.

The Republicans are sowing the seeds of their own destruction, then.

You may perceive my and our responses as insecurity and weakness; far from it. This quite simply is a community that no longer takes provocations lying down. Frankly, playing nicely and being dispassionately logical has landed us where we are today, under the thumb of an overgrown fratboy who only understands force and under whom logic has been banished as politically unacceptable.

And logic has yet to crack any conservative’s opinion, in my observation; all my cool, reasoned discussions with them have been for naught. It’s taken ubiquitously human tragedy and pain before they realized they had no safety net save that purchased by liberals. Then and only then has any effort I’ve made hit home.

War-damaged son? cracked open their consciousness about the foolishness of this war.

Suffering and dying babies? cracked open any conservative religious tenet and exposed it as hypocritical its lack of mercy for its abhorrence of abortion.

Slow, lingering death borne in genes? cracked open the fakery of the culture of life for what it was in its avoidance of stem cell research.

Ethos and logos did not seal the deal. Only mutual human pathos did it.

In re: “insulated”

Not. If anything I’ve had to write pseudonymously to insulate my kids from the red state kinder with whom they attend school.

The insulating bubble doesn’t reach far enough to protect them from assaults on their rights.

Rayne – way back @ 141 I said I’d bring up something controversial “just for fun”. I can tell I’ve touched a nerve, and I really didn’t want to, just wanted to encourage people to always question their ideas, nothing is sacred. The belief that some things are unquestionable is what has gotten this country into the mess it’s in. A word of caution, people who are not as nice as me, will view your emotion laden remarks and sensitivity as insecurity and weakness. Just frame your arguments logically, and respond. If you are secure in your beliefs, you should not get upset if someone challenges them.

Not. If anything I’ve had to write pseudonymously to insulate my kids from the red state kinder with whom they attend school.

The insulating bubble doesn’t reach far enough to protect them from assaults on their rights.