Bush’s decision to commute Libby’s sentence came shortly after I read this fascinating WaPo story about Bush and his bubble (which both Christy and I have already covered separately). In addition to thinking about all the most likely reasons for the commutation – obstruction of justice, taking care of a loyal soldier, sending the very important message that it’s okay to break the law on behalf of a Republican president – I found myself wondering if Bush even realized that his decision would not be popular outside of Crazy Base Land. After all, who’s going to tell him otherwise?
I started thinking about bubbles some more, and realized that the bubble is actually much larger than just the White House. The fact is that there is a giant bubble machine called the media, which insisted that not only was the Libby trial a partisan Democratic witch hunt that could only be remedied by a pardon, but that most Americans felt the same way. Similarly, on issues like abortion and gay marriage and withdrawal from Iraq, the mainstream corporate media keeps pretending that the Republican positions are mainstream positions.
This is something that I have long regarded as a serious threat to our democratic system, but I’m beginning to think that media corruption cuts both ways. Yes, the media’s Republican bias is still very dangerous on matters of fact (i.e., not questioning election irregularities or the case for war with Iraq), but it just doesn’t have quite the same effect on matters of opinion. Sure, they can say that most Americans are the anti-choice bloodthirsty homophobes the GOP wants them to be, but that doesn’t actually turn anyone into an anti-choice bloodthirsty homophobe who isn’t one already – anyone that suggestible is probably a Republican anyway.
But you know who really does eat that shit up? The Republican Party. Not just Bush, but all of them. I think they’ve actually started to believe their own media’s hype; that despite all the polls that say otherwise, they are somehow following the will of the American people. How else to explain their steadfast support for Scooter and neverending war, or their steely opposition to choice or immigration reform? It’s like they’re following their own Pied Piper into the river of electoral oblivion, and I encourage them to continue.
The only problem is, the Democratic Party is watching the same media. I reckon at least half of them are inside the same media bubble as the Republicans. That’s why we liberals have to be such pricks.
(And just because I know we’re going to be talking about it anyway: KEITH! – hat tip Oklahoma kiddo for the video link)
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Fitz!
What was that you zed, again?
Dan Abrams’ “My Take” on the commutation was excellent, too…
KO leaves tears in my eyes…
Keith was on fire tonight, and now even Dan Abrams is hitting Chimpy.
msauna @ 2
So close, yet so far…
I literally stood up and applauded after KO’s special comment. God bless him and God bless America. This is appearing to be a very dark Independence Day indeed.
Are we going to be celebrating August 9th as the anniversary of Nixon’s resignation?
The river is denial & not the one in Egypt.
Ah. When the jWheel of Doom goes on forever, there’s a new thread up top.
Eli @ 8
If only to yearn for his common sense to resign before being impeached, something this imbecilic President and spineless Congress will probably never encounter.
Keith Olbermann for President!
You know… some have called me a “prick” for my views on politics, and well… can you just imagine how that hurts my feelings?
Elizabeth Holtzman is kicking some ass, too. I remember rooting for her against D’Amato back in 1980.
MSNBC tv banner: congress to investigate president’s decision to grant scooter libby’s clemency
I just emailed MSNBC. High-fives for KO, Shuster, and Abrams’ SC follow-up. Raspberries for Tucker.
Did anyone else hear Tweety tonight, trying to make it sound like the hypocrisy cuts both ways?
I hate Tweety.
twolf1 @ 15
Cool! What exactly does “investigate” mean here, though? Are they going to put him under hypnosis?
With all due respect, I have ZERO confidence in Congress to do anything but masturbate.
They, too, are all in the pockets of Saudi Oil.
Nothing will change.
KO basical called for impeaching Bush and Cheney and asked them to have the honor of Nixon and resign to save the country the trauma. I almost fell out of my chair. He was on fire! If he has anything to do with it this is not going to be swept under the rug in a week.
Let’s hope Conyers has his shit together next week.
Riesz Fischer @ 17
David Brooks pulled the same shit in his column today.
Riesz Fischer @ 17
We’ll all be better off when we read his obituary.
Eli, just love “reBubblicans” …
realworld @ 20
After the half-assed job he did on Goodling, I can’t say I’m super-optimistic…
Blackford @ 19
You may be giving them too much credit.
I watched Tweety tonight, even if you disagree with him, he’s no David Brooks.
lee5 @ 23
Thanks! I also like to occasionally use “ReDubyacans”.
I wish Keith wouldn’t go past 9. The Tivo cut out right before his grand finale. Good thing it’s on again at midnight.
Keith, You. Are. A. God.
Eli @ 18
It means get ready for some non-binding resolutions that don’t pass congress?
Eli @ 24
yeah, Conyers definitely doesn’t perform at Leahy levels, but he may be laying a lot of groundwork for later …
Eli @ 14
She and Bob Abrams and Geraldine Ferraro beat each other up during the primary in ‘94 and allowed the Phonz to squeak out another win. Unfortunately.
Eli @ 21
That’s all they’ve got.
twolf1 @ 29
What we *really* need is a strongly-worded letter to show Dubya who’s boss.
Olbermans special comment was brilliant but Bush Crossed the Rubicon on 9/11 and most Americans are pretending they don’t know that.
imho, KO is a journalist, in the tradition of Uncle Walter. He has repeatedly spoken truth to power, and is currently my sole shred of trust in the media today.
May God bless him, and keep him safe as he continues his crusade.
dakine01 @ 31
Didn’t someone (Javits?) run as an independent and split the Dem vote, or am I thinking of some other Senate election tragedy?
Eli @ 33
nah, vice-for-life cheney already gave Dear Leader that letter and then classified it. v-f-l’s got it locked away in one of his super-secret safes …
AnnieW @ 26
I agree, Tweety didn’t cut any slack tonite! I had a different take on Tweety’s performance tonite, than, Riesz’s!!!
Lieberjavits.
-GSD
GSD @ 39
Except he was a liberal Republican instead of a conservative Democrat. He was probably several degrees to the left of Joe.
i hope keith’s and dan’s comments fires up the dems as i’m fired up…had to compose myself after that!! truly keith is my god right now – i know of no one else on tv with his cajones.. gotta love him
AnnieW @ 26
He’s infinitely worse than Brooks.
What do you mean disagree with him? How can you disagree with Tweety? Seriously, he rarely takes a stand that one could disagree with, he just wants to keep both sides of the argument going. He makes it sound like it’s unclear who’s right, we can never know for sure so just keep arguing. He just disrupts the discourse and makes sure nothing gets decided one way or the other.
I seriously hate that fucker.
I still say that Bush must have had his puckered ass handed to him by Putin.
I am tired of the Bush Family Evil Empire.
-GSD
motherlowman @ 16
I e-mailed Countdown as well. It is a sad commentary on the press when KO’s patriotism and dedication are the exception rather than the rule.
Conyers-Leahy Response to Fielding The USA scandal isn’t going to get swept under the rug either. Looks to me like they are setting up for contempt of congress July 9 or thereabouts.
When they do, I think they should skip the courts and go right to impeachment. That really is the route the framers envisioned. (Smart folks those framers.)
epu’d
tw3k at 67 says:
“gah, i go back to ’stuff’ now, just pisses me the f?ck off.”
make some art……..
Eli @ 33
Snark aside, what we REALLY need is to take it to the Republicans and make it hurt.
We need to be holding protests in front of their offices at home every damned day until they catch a clue.
We need to be holding protests every day, surrounding television stations with biggest market share, with signs protesting Republican’s corrupt complicity with Bush and Cheney.
It’s time to change tactics and make it hurt the ones who need to change the most.
Tell me where there’s gonna be a protest in Texas and I will go there.
Dan Abrams just let the “Armitage was the leaker” and that “Congress found Joe Wilson’s report to be false” slide through uncontested.
Dear Dan: While I applaud your giving Olbermann his free reins. and your own disgust with the clemency – please get a grip of the basic facts yourself, and/or keep David Schuster on standy at all times to knock this crap down. Thanks.
Eli @ 8
Oh, hell yeah. That is a great idea. Celebrate Corrupt President Resignation Day. Have a parade. Invite Bush to be the Grand Marshal.
realworld @ 45
You know, I used to think of “contempt” in this kind of context as basically just a legal term, but in BushCo’s case, it really *is* contempt.
I think what you’re getting at in your post is what we are witnessing is the actions of a cult.
Eli @ 52
LOL
cleter @ 50
I checked my calendar, and alas, I am not posting here on that date. I’ll have to put someone up to it…
Riesz Fischer @ 41
Dude! I don’t like defending Tweety, but, he is not a Koolaid drinker on a par with Brooks!!!
jayt @ 49
I think what Abrams opted to do, rather than get sucked into “he said, she said” (which further confuses the public), is change the subject in the direction he chose. It wasn’t pretty, but he shut Kobach up. I’m more bothered that he didn’t put a tighter rein on Kobach to prevent him from talking over Holtzman.
Rayne @ 47
Exactly, no more whining. Focus all this energy on something that might make a difference.
Riesz Fischer @ 41
Pardon my ignorance, but no one at this site considers Matthews a journalist, do they?
I mean, the guy’s an entertainer, entertaining himself and others who listen to the nonsense he spews.
Please, don’t label him a journalist (not that there are many left).
OK, did anyone else get ill at the Thompson, Romney, and Giuliani reponses to this?
I did.
Please direct your appreciation to Keith Olbermann at:
kolbermann@msnbc.com, feedback@msnbc.com, letters@msnbc.com, dabrams@msnbc.com,
Could be that the Republican hacks are still eating a mile of that crap to see where it comes from, but ordinary old-time Republicans apparently aren’t. A few months back, I overheard one of the grandmas at church reading to a child. This woman who I’d be willing to bet has never voted for a Democrat in her entire life read some sort of aimed-at-very-young-children sentence about how we live in a democracy and then said to herself, “actually, I’m beginning to think we live in a dictatorship.” I nearly fell over sideways.
pro choice lib @ 52
I was thinking more in terms of a self-reinforcing echo chamber, especially among the Republican power structure. But among the 25-percenters, I think maybe we really *are* looking at a cult.
CTuttle @ 55
No, Tweety has become a master at stoking which ever fire he can get the most flame out of to shine a light on himself.
He’s not a koolaid drinker he’s a narcissist with a teevee show to showcase himself.
CTuttle @ 55
I agree– Tweety’s not a partisan, he’s just a screaming monkey jumping around, causing confusion and preventing any meaningful discussion. And he’s got a prime time news show to do it from. He does much more damage to our national discourse than people like David Brooks.
To say to this life long Democrat that I appear displeased with my party would be an unsult. I am utterly disgusted with the Democratic party and in particular a couple of the front running candidates for the nomination for the presidency. What’s been going on the last day or so; my party should be all over it.
Eli @ 62
You’re on to something. It’s called the cult of fear. People whose primary motivations come from fear, not love.
LBrowne @ 61
I think that’s what’s happening. The media is telling the American people what they think, but they’re wrong – the American people’s core values are what they are, and the media can’t really change them that much.
But the Republicans are apparently watching the media to keep their finger on the pulse of Americans’ core values…
RevDeb at 63– great minds…
I’m scared.
Here’s a piece from the Cato Institute with which I largely agree: Commute THESE Sentences, Mr. President
boxer @ 66
I think you’re being unfair. Some of them are motivated by hate!
Riesz Fischer @ 68
yep. We’re part of the FDL cult of great minds. Just look around. We are surrounded.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 65
OKK, serious question (for once no snark). You’re consistent in your attachment to the dem party. I’m just wondering why? Have you seen something more of them (perhaps locally) than I have? In general, I figure they’re more likely to be somewhat better than the bubblicans, but sure looks to me like the heart and soul of that party got sold long ago. Or am I missing something more?
now, if Phil Chase were running, maybe I could get behind ‘em …
Phoenix Woman @ 69
What’s scarier, PW – the sentences, or agreeing with the Cato institute?
OK@65…
Hillary doesn’t dare be all over it, since that just sets up the Clinton-did-it-too faction for a shouting match. Obama, on the other hand, needs to be all over it, loud and proud. So do Harry and Nancy, over it and on record. If I can catch my congresscritter at the downtown festivities tomorrow, I will corner him and ask hard questions. Not that I’ll get answers, but at least I’ll ask.
Keith was excellent. Was this the same Elizabeth Holtzman who wrote this Bush Seeks Immunity
I doubt they’ll resign and Impeachment hearings should start immediately. I really like the part someone mentioned on the last thread about suspending there powers so they can’t grant any pardons.
Eli @ 70
Hate comes from fear. Everything negative comes from fear – think about it.
pro choice lib @ 52
I know we shouldn’t over-comment on peoples’ physical attributes, but I simply must point out the attractiveness of the distaff side of their cult: O’Beirne, Coulter, Malkkkin, and La Morgan.
Lovelies all.
I strongly urge the Speaker of the House to begin impeachment hearings immediately against Vice President Richard Cheney.
Tiny bubbles (tiny bubbles)
In the whine (in the whine)
Make me happy (make me happy)
Make me feel fine (make me feel fine)
in never dawned on that ho’ to do the right thing.
i live in a backwater………not repressive, but in its own time zone…..we have organic farmers, we have liberal guerillas, as i call them, who replaced yuppies, but in my opinion they are just as distasteful……..we have farmers, we have university bullocks……..each are in their own bubble……how do the ‘twain’ meet……..they don’t……….
i am in many circles around here, and politics just doesn’t enter into the conversation……..so, i go about it in other ways…..by having human contacts, bonds, i’m hoping that it rubs off, that they know i am a democrat, and that my opinion influences them when i talk about herb recipes………
therein lies the dillemma……..a bubble exists…….how do we enter it without popping it?
when i was in junior high, i had to go to a work camp at a methodist settlement in kentucky……very poor area…..i learned a lot……the minister there told us that each human being had a 17 inch bubble around them, and that we were to have contact with another human being without popping their bubble………how to do that…….i never forgot it, and have always respected the poppable 17 inch bubble of another person………
eli, your post reminded me of that, hadn’t thought about it in years.
boxer @ 77
That’s a good point. What I fear is there are enough sleepwalking sheeple who will vote for a repuke because they’ll “kick ass.”
So I hate republicans with the heat of a billion white-hot suns.
George A. @ 75
Yes.
SnarKassandra @ 48
Wish I could do that. I think we bloggers are going to have to come to an agreement about the kind of sustained statement we need to make to protest both this commutation and the larger issue of rejecting this administration.
Personally I have always been proud of the efforts of Las Madres de la Plaza de Mayo (Madres de los Desperacidos). They have been extremely effective, more so than the squirrely disorganized clownery we see in protests here in the U.S.
(I cannot help but think of Cindy Sheehan when I think of Las Madres.)
lee5 @ 72
You appear to be missing nothing. I am addicted to hope. Hope for my party, and much more importantly, hope for our country. ;0)
punaise @ 79
uke got that right
Oklahoma kiddo @ 83
hope, hope is good, that’s something I can get behind. thx!
Rayne @ 82
I heard briefly on Rachel’s show tonight that Cindy is so pissed off about this that she’s back in the fight. No surprise there.
OT Reuters is reporting that the deaths of private contractors has now hit 1000.
A provacitive idea and one that I’ve held for some time in this way.
Thesis: All societies must have accurate information about the environment they function in. From Chimpanzees to the Pharaohs to us if the society has no way to tell it’s members what truly is fact and what is in fact not true then….
That society dies.
Ours is an energetic and still vibrant one and the corporatist media’s failure to accurately inform the citizenry is clearly perceived by that same citizenry. This is why polls show ‘folks’ don’t trust the media; not because they are stupid but rather because they have learned over time that the corporatist media lies.
All the damn time.
This is where we come in. FDL pioneered, in some respects, fact based political coverage in the blosphere with the work of Jane, Spazeboy and many, many others on the LiarMann re-election.
Many millions, yes millions, of folks are coming online looking for information they can trust about what the fuck is happening in this nation. They know they aren’t getting it from John Roberts, check his ‘interview’ with Joe Wilson on C&L posted today, when they come here and to C&L and The Huffington Post and Orcinus and The News Blog (now reborn) and the many other news related blogs they are recognizing the truth. The do that when the see it as Thomas Jefferson was so confident that they would. The idea that we the people are too stupid to govern ourselves is a ReThuglican meme. And it is a lie. Perhaps their most damaging lie. Certainly is an old enough one going back to Plato as it does.
As for Bush and his backers here is where I am starting from.
He is going ‘under the bus’ soon as the conservatives will throw him there in self-defense. We must be ready to point to where the root of the resurgent American Fascist movement he has led lies.
These are the same folks who opposed transformation of our nation FDR engineered into what the Founders had in mind although they didn’t know it at the time. If you study his time you will find some of the same family names we see now trying to undo what he, with the backing of the citizenry, achieved.
In the heart of the ‘conservative’ movement founded and funded by the uber-rich and their sycophants si to be found the rot and corruption which has sickened our nation.
Only the clear light of an informed fourth estate can destroy that rot.
We are that fourth estate.
Turn on the floodlights.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
I heartily concur with my esteemed colleague from Oklahoma.
twolf1 @ 15
Yes, the House Judiciary Committee holding hearings, I believe. It seems to me this is like sitting down for discussion when the house is on fire. Also, Conyers is against impeachment so I don’t know if this is the same Conyers anymore.
teevee is a ratings game- it’s the only thing that matters- teevee people who don’t get ratings become ex-teevee people…
Abrams was a gooper hack when he had his own show- although he mostly did the missing white woman number- now that there’s a market for anti gooper shows- he’s encouraging em. Tweety works both sides hard. Olberman has found a good niche with US- Orally just does the wingnuts- all the same game- just different strategies.
The only parts of ‘V for Vendetta’ that did not depress me were scenes of ordinary people watching the official propaganda TV news broadcasts with looks of disgust and disbelief and grim amusement. That might have started to happen with our bigshot media. I hope so. Maybe they should keep up the catapulting, as long as they do it badly. Why do the corporate medis persist with the dog and pony show, even as they see their ratings and subscriptions decline? I’ve long thought it was either marketing, or crony capitalism (keepting the rulers happy for the next legislative give-away). Looks to me like it must be more of the latter than the former, since I don’t see what it is doing to increase their reveneues from voluntary free market viewing and purchasing.
Eli @ 81
Great article she put out.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19588942/
I’m listening again!!
Wow!
Americans sure are geeks.
A.Citizen @ 87
It has been my belief that as people realize that the media is Pravda, they will increasingly turn to the samizdat for the real scoop on what’s going on. And who else but the bloggers are the modern-day samizdat?
I also think this is why the media reports on anything critical at all – they need to maintain a minimum standard of credibility and plausibility to prevent a mass exodus to the blogizdat.
RevDeb@86: I heard briefly on Rachel’s show tonight that Cindy is so pissed off about this that she’s back in the fight. No surprise there.
Awesome! I love Cindy. There’s something about the way she talks– so direct and honest.
Clusterfuck can see the end of the crapper before his very eyes- after that it’s only sewer pipe and he’s halfway down- danglin his silly little feet over the abyss.
Bout the only thing that could save him is an ill advised impeachment attempt by the dems- that’s what revitalized Clinton. Don’t get me wrong- I really don’t mind if they do it- but it won’t work and they’ll save Clusterfuck- you can count on it.
Riesz Fischer @ 97
Read she is leading a march from Atlanta to Washington. Go Cindy !
Eli @ 36
I think he ran as an independent/liberal party after Phonz beat him in the R primary and that was the vote he split with Holtzman. ‘94 was a shame as any one of the three Dems would have been a great candidate but they beat each other up so badly in the primary, that the Phonz waa able to hold on. Abrams wound up with the nom.
wesgpc @ 91
I’m pretty sure that their ginormous parent conglomerates find Republican government to be a lot more profitable for their overall enterprise than a successful news division. Not to mention more ideologically sympatico.
Check back tomorrow. Glad too see that someone on in the media is speaking out. Keith is indeed a true patriot.
boxer @ 67
I think it is a cult of Party. Very much like Stalinism in tone and content. It just hasn’t managed to go that far yet. Let’s hope it never does..
LBrowne @ 61
Anyone who lived through the Cold War and maybe remembers some of WW2 has got to see the similarities.
And welcome, LBrowne!
Richard Wolffe, as usual, made exactly the wrong point in his discussion with Keith. He maintained that Bush commuted Libby’s sentence because he knows Libby, is Libby’s friend, as is the Vice. Compared Libby to all the people whose sentences W hasn’t commuted; Wolffe made the “justice for thee, but not for me and mine” argument.
That isn’t my primary objection to the commute. I agree with Joe Wilson’s point: it’s an ongoing furtherance of a continuing criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice in a federal investigation of the betrayal of a national security asset in wartime, executed at the apex of the Executive Branch.
Everybody expects politicians to pardon their friends; Wolffe’s argument gets people talking about Bill Clinton’s pardon of his brother. Pardoning a guy who obstructed justice and lied for you in court is something entirely different.
The American people understand that.
RevDeb @ 86
I don’t know if this is at kos or anything but Cindy’s a friend of ours and she sent this along to us
Eli @ 100
ding.
Mutant Poodle @ 73
Yes.
rwcole @ 97
Right on point. But we could get Cheney and Gonzo and force Bush to publicly defend them.
My chant for the day…
Dennis Kucinich placed articles of impeachment on Speaker Pelosi’s table. They are on the table now…and Joe Lieberman is NOT a Democrat.
OT BBC’s Johnston released by kidnappers.
that’s good news.
Shadowstalker @ 35
Amen.
The President has demonstrated that he is not a man of integrity, and he has no respect for the scales of justice. Scooter was rewarded for keeping his mouth shut and for obstructing an investigation that should have reached higher. It is of no consequence that Libby still faces a $250,000 fine. That’s chump change for someone who has friends who raised millions for Libby’s legal defense fund. But perhaps most troubling about this is that it tells other staffers in the Executive Branch that no matter what they have done or seen, they will be rewarded and protected if they stonewall investigators.
realworld @ 102
No disagreement. Just pointing out the underlying motivation for people to join such groups.
Where is Warren Harding or Richard Nixon when America needs them?.
Nordman @ 112
You should read Kung Fu Monkey’s post. He has figured out that the Bushies’ Ultimate Secret Weapon is their total lack of shame.
Today’s KO is not on Youtube yet, but there’s a whole bunch from yesterday.
It is also why they say the word “bloggers” with such particular distaste — it’s the taste of fear on their tongue.
Nordman @ 114
No, where are the Barbara Jordans the Sam Ervins and the Molly Ivins when you need them.
As Scooter Libby awoke this morning to find God in his heaven and all right with the world, Robert Novak led his apologists in regurgitating the trusty Republican “criminalization of politics defense” to fend off criticism of President Bush’s shocking endorsement of law-breaking. Of course, that’s what the conservative movement has been reduced to. Whether the scandal involves the outing of Valerie Plame, the misdeeds of Tom Delay and Jack Abramoff, or the U.S. attorneys purge, we can always count on the GOP to recast its rampant criminality as mere political disagreement.
For the grotesque story, see:
“Libby and the GOP’s Criminalization of Politics Defense.”
nailed it eli, nailed it big
that’s why democrats do their dangdest to appease the republicans, they are under the misguided impression that the neo con theocrats represent s significant portion of the electorate
they do not
Americans are ready to put theocrats down and take them out of our government
we need someone to take those reighns and ride that horse
SnarKassandra @ 116
Go here.
Eli – your comments about political bubbles also apply to economic bubbles. Basically they occur when the propogandists start believing their own propoganda. Thus the insane big money bets on the sub-prime housing loan market, which were originally nothing but fast talk to get suckers invested over their heads and milk them for every last dime.
Unfortunately, when the bubble pops, everyone gets hurt.
Good post.
Cassie… I think KO is here
revdeb at 110 says:
“OT BBC’s Johnston released by kidnappers.
that’s good news.”
YES!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!
I like your piece, but I think you’re over-analyzing it a bit. A lot of this can be explained just by plain inertia. For the past year at least, Bush has been following the lead of a certain far-right segment of the Republican party. And what happens? Not only has he succeeded every time, he’s even convinced enormous segments of the Democratic Party to go along with him. Remember, 80% of the Democrats in the Senate voted with Bush on the last Iraq authorization bill, they even tacked on more money than he asked for. With a record like that, why shouldn’t he keep doing the same thing?
Olbermann had a powerful comment tonight and I commend him for it, but I think he overstated the importance of the firing of Archie Cox. Back then, that firing was not a tipping point. There were plenty of people who were willing to write it off as payback to a bowtie-wearing Eastern academic who was out of his league in the real world. But it was one more piece of doubt added to a growing pile. That’s how these things work, there has to be a critical mass, then once reached the whole thing collapses all at once. I don’t think we’re there yet with Bush, but certainly this doesn’t help him.
Look at all the complaints our founding fathers had against King George in England. Look how many are true today about King George of CT and Midland TX:
Shuster on Tucker, though @ C&L.
AZ Matt @ 119
AZ Matt @ 118
Hell, even the Howard Bakers and Lowell Weickers got disgusted with Nixon and I can’t see any of the current R office holders performing even as credibly as they did.
Eureka Springs @ 122
No that is from this morning. It is just the preview part. And I can’t embed the MSNBC video into my web page.
A significant political change now compared H2O-gate era is uniting of a criminal political party and organized religion. At least 35% of the population is being brain washed by Republican propaganda and hearing the same thing 2 or more days/nights a week at church. It has been very effective.
SnarKassandra @ 125
Nothing to see here…move along.
Nicely found, Cassie. I’m just busy hurling tomatoes at GOP apologists, and here you are doing original research.
Steve @ 130
Tell those people what was here earlier —- that bearing false witness is a sin on the top 10 list and THAT is what Libby was convicted of.
Sorry Cassie… will be up soon
harry reid’s dry powder bubble. nancy pelosi’s off the table bubble.
I do not think Nixon’s men had the sophisticated and comprehensive NSA tools Mr Rove has at his disposal to shepherd the GOP electeds.
Spectre is the best example of this, I believe, but there are probably others so motivated.
Alternatively, recall that both Cornyn and Hutchinson broke with Dear Leader on immigration. Pretty amazing, that.
snowbird42 @ 93
Oh hell yeah…. Once again Olberman gets to the heart of it all.
Have you never heard of Glen Greenwald?
DrenchedOtter @ 124
If I might, the actual firing of Cox was important. How Nixon accomplished it, however, was seminal. AG Richardson refused the Presidential order and resigned, and # 2 at DOJ Ruckelshaus refused also and was fired or resigned.
Strong stuff.
perris @ 119
Just for fun, I’ll be a little controversial. Aren’t we now, in our own bubble. The people who read this blog and comment are essentially of the same mindset. Yes, there are more and more each day, but they come here after the are converted, for support. We need to find out what is the best way to get information to people so they will make this conversion and push that button.
Oh, and RevDeb (I think it was you) – I also am sure that W was wearing a wire when he talked to the press. The long pauses, the vacant eyes while he was listening, and the fact that he didn’t sink into W Texian slang and incoherance. Somebody figure out how to jam that thing (Alfred?).
DrenchedOtter @ 124
There still has to be some reason for the Democrats to think going-along-to-get-along is a smart idea. I can really only think of two explanations, which are not mutually exclusive:
1) They believe the media’s Republican spin, or at least fear it.
2) They are almost as much in the pockets of big business and the wealthy as the Republicans are (I think the DLC acts as kind of a conduit and fig leaf for this, to make it look like pro-corporate “centrism” is actually some kind of clever electoral strategy).
Re-reading KO’s comment:
Madame Speaker, we’re waiting.
Did anyone see this?
Snow offers flip apology
newtonusr @ 139
Richardson and Ruckelshaus both resigned rather than fire Cox. Some articles said they then convinced Robert Bork (yes, THAT one – he was the solicitor General) to stay on and not resign with them in order to maintain some level of continuity in the DoJ so he wound up doing the actual firing of Cox
SnarKassandra @ 132
They “shut their ears and say la..la..la..”. Lying for the “faith” is not a sin.
Olbermann’s special comment from tonight:
http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnb…..2/&fg=
the fact that marcy wheeler was on msnbc blows my mind
DrenchedOtter @ 124
You are confusing “Democrats” with “Democrats in the Senate”. They are demonstrably different things.
boxer @ 138
I sorta said the same thing in the previous thread. I think we tend to preach to the converted instead of figuring out what we CAN do, and then doing it. And we tend to cast those with a contrary view as “trolls.” We need to focus on how we can really make a difference, and avoid casting dissenting or contrasting views as coming from trolls. They will always be with us, but not everyone with a different view is a troll.
Margot @ 144
Yes, I did. Absolutely infuriating. I really don’t know what to say about it. The arrogance. The disdain for Americans. I’m at a loss.
They don’t even pretend to care what we think.
Regarding the Republican bubble,
Remember the Ron Suskind article back in 2004 that had some WH aide bragging that they were busy “creating” reality, and that Democrats and everyone else would whine and complain and wring their hands as they analyzed it. In other words, the way he was looking at it, the Republicans had seized the initiative, and were acting, whereas the Democrats would merely be reacting, and thus would always be at least one step behind.
Well, the “reality” they were creating was the world inside their bubble. The MSM got invited inside to see and “report” on what was supposedly inside their bubble.
But now they are discovering that there are some aspects of reality that you can’t control that way, and that those aspects of reality are biting them on the a** pretty hard. And they’re starting to squeal, like tormented little piglets.
Bob in HI
Eli @ 141
Exactly, the truth is this country was founded and has always operated as an oligarchy. The powerful but forth their face (the President) and depending on what’s good for business that person is either benevolent (FDR) or a despot (Bush). The only times things get outa whack is when someone gets too greedy (Cheney). Once it gets to a tipping point, they’ll abandon Bush, but they won’t let him get convicted, even if he’s impeached.
SnarKassandra @ 125
He’s done these, too, Cassie. Think about Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, all of them replacing government activities, all of them acting both here on domestic soil as well as abroad, all of them without real oversight.
And faith-based initiatives, which the SCOTUS ruled citizens do not have standing to contest — new offices operating theocratically to provide services that the government used to provide secularly, neutrally.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 146
thanks OK Kiddo… Watching now …
OT…Probably re-post, but
Judiciary Hearing Scheduled
The hearing begins next Wednesday, July 11 at 10:15 a.m. Eastern. Jane and Marcy will be liveblogging it for FDL. Stock up on popcorn.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/7/3/20562/26521
The House Judiciary Committee has generally been pathetic..I’ll wait on the popcorn
boxer @ 139
I endorse Boxer’s comment, which I take not as criticism, but as homework. Sites like this are important to reaffirm sanity, but dialogue with those who see things differently is crucial. There are a few people address book living in the other bubble and I’m giving myself the summer assignment of reengaging with them on these topics. Respectfully, as a friend. Hopefully in person…
Keith is up at C&L’s!!!!!
Mutant Poodle @ 131
And now I wrote it up all formal like in a post. Will post KO later or on my other blog.
Rayne @ 153
I included some of those in my post just now.
You know I often wonder if there is another way to get at these folks (I’ll leave the colorful language to others), I wonder if like hackers of old if we used a bit of social engineering and looked for a weak spot in the software so to speak. I don’t know you can brute force an encrypted system, or find a spot were their not so strong. Just a thought please don’t get mad at me for using a non political metaphor, or not swearing at someone.
Japandrew @ 156
Yeah, I have no problem with it. I see the liberal blogosphere as more of a necessary counterweight and alternative to the right-wing corporate media. I guess we’d still be here if the media was actually fair and objective, but our focus would probably shift considerably.
Of course, we’ll probably never get to put that to the test…
I love Angry Black Bitch. She’s got it nailed.
What I don’t get is how anyone can truly be shocked that the same President who subverted the rule of law to go to war would subvert the rule of law to protect the people who helped him subvert the rule of law to go to war.
The “rule of law”, my black ass!
Margot @ 144
Did anyone see this?
Snow offers flip apology
yeah I saw it as it happened, and posted about it a few threads back. i was damn near apoplectic at the arrogance, the giving the back of the hand to it, etc.
And I’m still pissed that JoeScar called Joe Wilson a “scumbag” on national TV this morning.
Forgive me I can see the heart meds have kicked in and it time to stop writing sorry all.
Thanks for the replies, it’s always nice to have a conversation!
I didn’t mean to imply that Cox’s firing was not significant, of course it was, but I don’t believe that it was the “last straw” as Olberman implied. There was still a large segment of the country willing to go along with Nixon’s fantasy of a vast conspiracy of “pinko” liberals out to undermine the country. It wasn’t until the tapes started being released and we all heard what a psycopath the guy really was that the country turned against him.
To GordonM, I would be happy to draw a distinction between Democrats and “Democrats in the Senate”, but the Democratic Party is making it awfully hard. Three out of three of the top Democratic contenders for the Presidency are senators or ex-senators. The party is rubbing it in our collective faces that they want to govern the same way they are acting in the Senate. Which is, as far as I can see, talk a lot, ask for lots of money, then vote lock-step with the Republicans.
SnarKassandra @ 159
One big unfortunate distinction. This George was elected (I know not actually but functionally)twice by the American people. It sucks, but we get what we ask for – winning Presidential elections is important. No more staying home. No more protest or splinter votes. Get behind the Demo canidate with everything you’ve got.
Night before the Fourth of July. I watch Keith Olbermann. His list of accusations – “I accuse you, Mr. Bush” made me weep. I’m not caving in to despair, but I am feeling great sadness tonight, for this country.
But tomorrow? Going to a big 4th parade at the politically left leaning and outspoken Warren VT parade, where A) I’m bringing my OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE sign B) It’s quite possible I’ll get to shake hands with Patrick Leahy -don’t know if he’ll be there – but it’s a political town that is a magnet for our representatives. It’ll be good. Picture a Vermont hamlet, nestled in the mountains, a quaint New England town with a small couple block main street and a clean clear little brook bubbling alond and thousands of PISSED OFF VERMONTERS.
If anyone wants to look at the Olbermann special comment from tonight again, the link is at #149.
argosfalcon @ 166
nite. Feel better.
Steve @ 155
.
.
And for those who missed Jane’s earlier appeal for fundage, may I remind you that every contribution counts? As you wade through the appeals in your email inbox from the DNC, the DSCC, and the DCCC in the wake of Libby’s commutation, please remember that FireDogLake provided the liveblogging of the trial and FireDogLake continues to bring us the new media paradigm.
As well as a place to gather and commiserate or celebrate, as the day’s events demand. “You’re soaking in it!”
Please join me and hit the FireDogLake PayPal button, folks. Nobody else is gonna pay for this Fifth Estate but us, it seems.
jayt at 165:
“And I’m still pissed that JoeScar called Joe Wilson a “scumbag” on national TV this morning.”
Yeah, WKOFIT? I hope Joe knows what a scumbag is…I mean, I almost choked on my coffee!
solai @ 151
Every time I see this shit, EVERY time, I send an email to comments@whitehouse.org and let them know I’m watching and DO NOT APPROVE. I highly suggest it. It’s therapeutic, better than mediatation :)
I’m sure I’m on the no-fly list, especially after yesterday’s impeachable commutation. I think I hit my personal record for flaming emails.
Tonight? Making 4th of July signs for the block party. Impeach King George is the first one. Can’t wait for the conversation that follows :)
SnarKassandra @ 161
One big unfortunate distinction. This George was elected (I know not actually but functionally)twice by the American people. It sucks, but we get what we ask for – winning Presidential elections is important. No more staying home. No more protest or splinter votes. Get behind the Demo canidate with everything you’ve got.
Sorry, wrong quote earlier
TeddySanFran @ 170
hear, hear! money where our mouths (and ears and fingers and hearts) are!
Eli @ 8
Maybe it is time to organize a national day of protest to commemorate that historic day.
As I’ve pointed out before this is a long battle to take back America and not sure we can.
Jo6pac
Never Give Up
Japandrew @ 156
In 2002, I was very depressed; I felt isolated and alone, powerless. There were things I saw going wrong and I had no one I felt comfortable talking with about them. I began to blog because I has so much in my head that needed to be aired out.
Since I took that step, I have been able to meet and speak with a presidential candidate in a small intimate group setting and get encouragement to become more engaged politically. I’ve made new friends for whom I would walk through fire, and who would do the same for me. I’ve found work 3 times zones away from where I live, one of the most economically depressed places in the country for years. And I found out I am not alone, I am far from alone, and that I am not a minority but a majority from whom the truth has been stolen.
If this is a bubble, I f*cking needed this bubble to regain my sense of empowerment and personal strength. And I believe this bubble is growing to match the size of the so-called big tent the Democratic Party has been.
If this is a bubble, it’s provided shelter from the systematic onslaught of denigration and denial from the right that I’ve had to bear for most of my adult lifetime. It provides a haven for the day when the bubble of the right collapses under the weight of its hubris and hypocrisy.
And I see already that there are many who’ve begun to seek this shelter, not because I invited them in, but because I was here to provide that bubble of haven, because I and many like me here at FireDogLake didn’t roll over and give up but stayed to build this new political bio-dome.
This just up by Adam Liptak
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07…..te.html?hp
Among other things, it talks about how Bush’s words may be (already are being) used by _defense_ lawyers!
Just a reminder about “reality based” reality, from Ron Suskind.
—————-
I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House’s displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn’t fully comprehend — but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.
The aide said that guys like me were ”in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who ”believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ”That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. ”We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
ALL Republicans live in a bubble of their own and the medias creation. Scarborough is no different. He is projecting when he calls Ambassador Wilson a “scumbag”. The sooner the Republican Party implodes the sooner the nation can begin the healing process.
boxer @ 169
Not if it’s Hillary Clinton.
Hillary is a republican.
Helen @ 164
I’m particularly taken with her use of the word “payoff” to describe what Libby got yesterday. His silence was bought and paid for with this payoff.
TeddySanFran @ 170
To use to old saw “Freedom isn’t free”, sent a few c’s thru the toobz.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 149
Yeah. KO must have pushed for this.
Frank33 @ 180
I remember reading this when Suskind’s book first came out. And the first thought? This is called “delusion”.
We have a certifiably delusional president. I’m not kidding.
Atikar @ 172
jayt at 165:
“And I’m still pissed that JoeScar called Joe Wilson a “scumbag” on national TV this morning.”
Yeah, WKOFIT? I hope Joe knows what a scumbag is…I mean, I almost choked on my coffee!
As I understand it, JoeScar is the new permanent replacement for Imus. Therefore, he no longer has to pretend that, in order to hang on to Olbermann’s audience, he has a thought in his head that isn’t purely 29% based. He’s now free to chuckle with glee at the most recent SCOTUS decisions, and revert to generally being the right wing shill that he, at bottom, is.
Atikar @ 172
I didn’t know he said that. I have been really out of it for weeks. Waaay too many personal obligations taking all my free time. Anyway, I think Joe’s trying to be a shock-jock. Either that or he’s a huge asshole. So, what’s that leave for the morn. Can’t stand John (Ted Baxter) Roberts. Maybe I’ll watch the weather channel.
Phoenix Woman @ 185
Or they met at Prettyman and Schuster finally had a good chance to get her on the air.
Phoenix Woman @ 183
linky for those of who only get teevee via the toobz?
snowbird42 @ 94
Absolutely Wow!
He called them Perilous To Our Democracy.
Spot on.
Phoenix Woman @ 184
My bet is that David Shuster put a bug in his ear.
DrenchedOtter @ 165
Then hold their feet to the fire. My Rep is a Blue Dog, but under pressure, he’s started voting the right way.
How have the Republicans gained so much power? By being politically active. Yes, politicians will vote the way the money wants unless they think they’ll lose the next election. Most liberals, in less-than-crisis times, just want to have a reasonable life. They don’t want to waste time writing their congresscritter on issues that aren’t vitally important. So your congresscritter thinks he/she can get away with it. Your typical congresscritter represents hundreds of thousands to millions of voters. If 15% tell them weekly the moon is made of green cheese and the other 85% stay silent, they start to think cheese mining on the moon is good politically.
I betcha Schuster made it happen. There was a long still of her book up as well. David gets it. The funniest, to me, of that was when the camera came back to the panel, all three of whom were entirely dazed by the clear connection Marcy made from the President to Libby’s payoff.
Rayne @ 177
Amen.
I am going the my Aunties place now, for the night. Confident in the knowledge that my country is in the hands of blackmailers, grifters, frauds and assorted other thugs.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 196
Best to you and your aunt, OKK!
solai and jayt:
How is it that MSNBC can find easy replacements for Imus? And yes, solai, the weather channel at least gives you some useful info.
What truly amazes me is that in order to get any news in the morning, I’m having to turn on the ol’ toobz to see if anything important is going on. When did the morning shows become nothing more than features on fashion and gasbags calling people scumbags? How is this dialogue helpful at all!
Does anyone know of any demonstrations anywhere?
C’mon OK Kiddo, we knew that in 2000. Buck up, grab a pitchfork and take it back!
Frank33 @ 180
Yes, I think that’s a good summary. Bush believes that he’s leading and the rest of us are just catching up. And if you look at the past year, he’s right. Everything he has started has happened, from the “surge” in Iraq to the emasculation of the Justice Department, and Congress has gone along. He is correct that he has been the one deciding what happens, and everyone else might whine for a while, but eventually they fall in line. Until Bush loses at something, he’s not going to change.
TeddySanFran @ 195
Bye! Aunties are the best. Did you wash your dinner dishes? Get your dirty shoes off the rug?
TeddySanFran @ 194
I was tickled by their shock also. But I can’t decide if they were shocked because this was new information to them or because Marcy had the guts to say it. On national TEEVEE. In front of God and the world.
Right on, Rayne.
valletta @ 184
I would suggest just the madness of power. They have all the private and public espionage agencies. They think they control information and they ruthlessly enforce their cult of greed and deception. This goes back to Caligula or Nero, nothing new.
They forgot about Vinnie in his basement, he may be smarter than they are.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 194
rest easy! nothing to worry about here …
Second that. I think I’ve said this before, but if we ever do get shipped off to the Gulag? I want to be in Rayne’s cell block.
masaccio @ 199
Have my pitch fork! and my US Out of Iraq sign is nearing seventeen years of age.
jayt @ 193
After KO’s comments tonight, it’s time for him to flex his muscles with Dan Abrams and get rid of Milbank(sp), Wolfe, et al and start using the people who have a brain and know the facts. Marcie, Glenn, Jane, Christie et al.
Here’s the poster I’m putting up tomorrow for the 4th’s block party:
US Dead: 3585
Iraqi Dead: ???
Cost of War : $500,000,000,000…
Impeachment: Priceless
Atikar says
July 3rd, 2007 at 7:34 pm
solai and jayt:
How is it that MSNBC can find easy replacements for Imus?
I don’t know that it was easy – to some extent I’m sure it was contractual. My take on the JoeScar final selection is that he most closely appeals to the former followers of Imus, and that he has the clout to get the “big name” interviews. On any given day, Imus was nuts. JoeScar’s just gonna be a little more consistent about it, is all.
KO said what has needed to be said for a long long time. Forward the MSNBC vid to anyone and everyone you know. It’s time to be the modern day Minutemen/women. I don’t know what the copyright law is but am thinking of running off copies to put on streetlamps and telephone poles around my little town.
GordonM @ 192
I think you make an excellent point. There was a time when liberals were the ones making lots of noise, jamming up politician’s phone lines. That was when Congress voted liberal, even though it often was not a majority position. Now it’s the conservatives, especially the religious right, who are in there fighting. Mike Gravel is right, we need a lot more old-style activism, or the Republicans will just roll over the Democrats like they have in the last two elections.
i like rayne’s bubble — I’ll live there.
I would not want to live in chimpy’s bubble — that’s definitely a hellhole whether he admits it to himself or not
Rayne @ 179
Please understand, I believe this site and sites like it are necessary and provide a vital function. My point is that it is easy, because of so much support, understanding, and like mindedness, to believe the rest of the country believes, as strong as we do, the same things we do. Yes, Bush’s poll numbers are in the toilet, but a large percentage of this country thinks same sex marriage is wrong. People outsidethis “bubble” must be educated in order to embrace progressive ideals.
carolyn urban @ 206
Ah shucks, carolyn, that’d be groovy. Imagine the hell we’d raise on anybody trying to detain us. ;-)
There are only two possible reasons for this commutation. Either GWB really doesn’t give a s–t or they have him by the short hairs for something he never wants to be made public. Since he’s such a drunk, and a loser underneath his bravado, either one of these reasons would make sense.
The bubble is not one of not knowing what’s really going on. Rather, it’s that what’s really going on matters not one whit to The Sun King. This is a frightened child who’s managed to get the schoolyard bullies on his side.
steve at 209:
“After KO’s comments tonight, it’s time for him to flex his muscles with Dan Abrams and get rid of Milbank(sp), Wolfe, et al and start using the people who have a brain and know the facts. Marcie, Glenn, Jane, Christie et al.”
Amen brutha. When are we going to get more legitimately constructive commentary on the TEEVEE?
By the by, just my 2 cents worth, but did KO look especially angry tonight? I heard him stumble over a couple of phrases and knew that was rage making it happen, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fairly public person look sooooo freaking mad!
valletta @ 144
dot org? ummmmm…oh, nevermind.
john in sacramento @ 106
Texans/Snarkassandra: Check out the ‘this’ link above. It says Cindy Sheehan will start her walk to Congress on July 10th from Camp Casey in Crawford. Details to be forthcoming.
John can you forward them as you receive them?
Steve @ 210
Probably won’t happen. Milbank et al are part of the WaPo0/MSNBC/Newsweek grouping so the various managements look on at as a “corporate synergy” type deal. We’re lucky that KO, due to his ratings and the fact he gets viewers and makes them some money, has the independence that he has.
I think the answer to the media’s portraying right wing positions as moderate and mainstream can be found in the “Overton Windows” strategy that Kos described in an old post: carefully orchestrated steps to transform a radical, extremist position into one seen by others as mainstream. This six or seven step process was advanced by the Chicago school (not Leo Strauss but in the same vein, I think). Having wacko groups, like the religious right women’s fringe groups, advancing their views that do not exactly match the right wing platform nevertheless serves the purpose of making the relatively more moderate positions seem reasonable. One example is home schooling, which used to be undertaken by more radical rightwingers who believed public schools were tools of liberals. Now, 13 million children are homeschooled and homeschooling is viewed with a shrug. (And I think that the NCLB legislation was developed to further this movement, thus further weakening Americans’ support of public education.) Of course, a similar example is abortion rights groups. The media has been a willing vehicle for this transformative acculturation.
Bluetoe @ 210
i believe that’s called fair use :-)
Helen @ 163
Mahalo, Helen! That ho has some brass!!! ;-)
I love this:
“Senator Leahy called that move Nixonian…and a bitch agrees to a point.
Playing the executive privilege card may be Nixonian, but Poor Richard didn’t have The 5-4 Supremes as backup.
Gasp!
“Heading for a constitutional crisis”, my black ass Russert.”
Woo-iee! She’s good!!!
Gunga Djinn @ 218
oops! .gov
not like anyone reads it anyway, right?
what we fail to realize i think is that bushco has no moral center therefore nothing they do is wrong… trying to appeal to their sense of right or wrong is futile – the dems must show some leadership and do something to stem this tide of corruption and shredding of the constitition – saying they dont have enough votes to overturn anything bushco does is getting tiresome….
Frank33 @ 206
That an insult to Gaius (Caligula); before his illness, he was considered an able megalomaniac. Bush has never been able.
juslin @ 224
Even if they *don’t* have enough votes, I think it’s still worthwhile to force a vote, to put the Rpeublicans officially on the record as being totally cool with the administration’s corruption and lawlessness.
Let the Republicans try to explain their votes next year, instead of the Democrats explaining why they didn’t even *try* to do anything.
That quote by Rove(?) made it into Frank Rich’s book too (quoting Suskind iirc). Whoever said that is insane. And whoever believes, it equally so. Truly. No snark. That quote is disturbingly insane.
And, if you look at the last few years, it seems that they all ascribe to that theory. Look at Katrina and all the fuckery irt progress being made. Look at how they blame everything on ‘not being able to get their message across’. Look at their attempts to stop bad news reports from Iraq (even forbidding soldiers’ email)
They believed that all they had to do was control the message. Scary, scary bunch of deranged people running this country.
I wasn’t sure if that was a typo, or if I was going to burst your bubble, valletta.
:)
Speaking of the media’s bias…take a look if you will at this story from the CBS News web site, which was picked up from tonight’s evening news:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..4610.shtml
There’s virtually nothing in it that supports the view that Bill is a liability to Hillary Clinton’s campaign. The Democratic consultant they question says Bill’s a plus, and so does the civilian. Yet here is the headline:
“Hillary Clinton’s New Liability?
Bill Joining Hillary On The Campaign Trail Could Be A Boost Or A Hindrance”
What could possibly justify the headline?
–
eli@229
i agree whole-heartedly with that
Of course they believe their own “truthiness”. Millions of fundamentalist Christians that vote Republican also believe that the earth is only 6000 years old. If you can believe that, what can’t you believe?
juslin @ 230
I advocated something similar in general terms when they were still the minority party. Even if they don’t win, they can/should still hang the Republicans’ wrongheaded votes around their necks come election time.
solai @ 229
solai, I thought of you when I read about the K’port protests on the Village Green last weekend. One year ago, when W was there, 700 demonstrated. This year, for Putin’s visit? 1,500. I remembered you’d hoped to go, and I was so glad they were able to double their numbers even without you.
Eli @ 229
Absolutely. Saying you aren’t willing to fight because you might lose is no way to be a leader.
I dissagree strongly with the idea that we live in a bubble
we are NOT the extreme, WE represent the majority of Americans
in point of fact, democratic values and priniciples are the priniciples the majority of Americans associate themselves
however marketing has convinced Americans that “liberal” is somehow a bad thing to be, that “liberal” is a dirty word
no, we do not live in a bubble, our principles prevail
all of our priniciples”
of course not, but the majority with no doubt
and with no doubt, unusual as it might sound, WE are the concervatives, the democrats are the concervatives, NOT the republicans and certainly not the neo cons
WE want to concerve our constitution, WE want to concerve our national integrity, WE want to preserve and concerve our national security, WE want do defend the vision the founders used to bring forth this nation
WE are the moderates, OUR positions prevail throught this country
the constitution I might remind everyone is a LIBERAL document, that this nation is a country BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE
it is NOT a government by a man…that the government SERVE MEN NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND
that it is the GOVERNMENT that provides for the general welfare of the people…NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND
liberals
WE are the keepers of the vision and dream given to us by our fore fathers
and IF this nation is to survive, IF our constitution is to be the beacom of freedom that will not perish into the night, it will be because of LIBERALS
boxer @ 213
See the part where I said I felt isolated and alone?
I sleep with a right-leaning so-called independent. His folks and my folks are conservatives, although for the life of me I can’t figure out why. I live in a municipality that voted 70% Republican for the last 16 years.
I have no idea where you came up with the idea that we live here in this little cloistered shelter to the exclusion of the rest of reality around us. Most of us don’t. Most of us come here because it is the exception rather than the rule in our lives.
And I’m already doing my part to change the situation on the ground; the rightie I sleep with voted for Kerry (just don’t tell him I told you). His parents have begun to shift their views on abortion after the miserable suffering and loss of prematurely-born and severely handicapped grandchildren. All of them have had to question the sanity of the Iraq War once my stepson shipped off to serve in Iraq and came back suffering from PTSD.
We may love this bubble, but we don’t live in it; it lives in us.
Judy @ 221
Yup. The disadvantage to this strategy is that when it breaks, it breaks big time. Once you cross the line that the median voter won’t cross, you’re in the minority instead of being “mainstream”.
It’s the same thing that happens when gerrymandering. You capture a bunch of swing districts by diluting a few safe districts. Then when you get carried away, the swing districts are gone and even your safe districts aren’t safe anymore.
The moral of this story is that if you’re a propogandist, make sure you never, ever come to believe your own propoganda.
This makes such total sense. Why can’t Pelosi see this? Why does she think she needs the numbers NOW in order to start the process?
She is looking at everything through the prism of Americans’ reaction to the GOP’s Clinton impeachment; is she entirely forgetting that the GOP “won” the Presidency afterwards!?
Color me a baffled constituent.
browny @ 234
The last numbers that I read were in the range of 45% think the Bible (King James, I assume) is literally true and 53% think evolution isn’t true or doesn’t apply to humans. Pretty scary shit.
Eli @ 24
No kidding. Is there some way to assemble an “A team” of decent examiners who can put together a coherent question and follow-up strategy? Like a joint subcommittee or something? There are more in the Senate who can hold a thought string through a couple of back n forths, but not all that many there either. Sheesh.
CityGirl @ 231
ABC’s Charlie Gibson segued immediately to the “Bill as liability” meme, which Candy Crowley obediently crowed about on NBC as well. It’s today’s TradMed talking point: Bill Clinton, the liability.
by the way
I just saw the KO clip and MAN, it was GREAT
I hope KO is careful how he travels for if the president or Cheney sees that piece they will not be happy one bit
I will go so far as to say they will be even more angry with KO then they were with the ambassador
New post. Guess who got the zed!!!!!
perris @ 245
Hi Perris,
No disrespect or snark, but do you really think so? I mean, it would be great if they cared about anybody’s opinion other than their own, that’s why I ask. I don’t think they give a flying fig about KO’s opinion or ours or anyone anyone…they can hardly pretend to care about what the truth is as long as they get their way.
Rayne @ 239..Have you read Joe Bageant’s “Deer Hunting With Jesus”?
“His folks and my folks are conservatives, although for the life of me I can’t figure out why. I live in a municipality that voted 70% Republican for the last 16 years.”
The book examines that paradox and others in Red America.
TSF, I booked that trip the minute I heard Putin and Bush would be there. I’m only 5.5 hrs away. And, it could be worked out with Mr. Solai to make it a vacation, too. Everytime I hear of a gathering of liberals, I so want to be there. It’s seldom possible. I’m not going to make YKos, either (sigh). But, because we’re adults, other matters come first. And, my mother-in-law needed help. Now, she’s had her surgery (to repair a broken arm) and is in rehab. So, things are looking up but the last week or so have been hectic.
Just a footnote:Had to fight with the Ins. Co. to pay for rehab. They don’t cover rehab for upper limbs. The woman is so frail that she couldn’t lift herself up from her chair with one arm….yet, we had to fight them. Fortunately, her doctor prevailed.
Rayne @ 239
I never said, nor implied “that we live here in this little cloistered shelter to the exclusion of the rest of reality around us”. I only cautioned about how easy it is to become insulated. No one is critizing FDL, for God’s sake, I’m typing on it right now. My point is, the things that you refer to doing (and by doing so make my point) are the things necessary to effect change in the world. Blogging on like minded sites will not do it on its own, it takes outside work.
perris says@238
great points you just made – conservatives have gotten things twisted – they’d love a country run for the few – ohh thats what it is now – lets take back america in 2008
Steve @ 242
but can anyone actually believe this? Or do they feel like they’re part of the right team when they assert it? It’s a cultural identity thing rather than something they actually believe …
greenwarrior @ 218
Sure ;-)
P.S. Greenwarrior, are you still going to that conference or whatever it is in Rancho? Maybe we can have a few beers when you’re here … unless I’m serving on a jury … voir dire is taking forever … don’t know if I’m going to on yet, the defense keeps dismissing people.
Steve @ 248
Haven’t read it yet, sorry. John Dean’s Conservatives without a Conscience and Chris Hedges’ American Fascist spell out a lot of it — or at least the reason why these people I call family are in thrall to so-called conservatism.
The truly bizarre part is that they think the Republican Party is the same one that William Milliken ran under as governor in this state; they don’t seem to grok that Milliken is to the left of Hillary Clinton, and that he supported Kerry in the last election. Suggests to me that party affiliation is sticky, like wages are in economic terms.
In re: “insulated”
Not. If anything I’ve had to write pseudonymously to insulate my kids from the red state kinder with whom they attend school.
The insulating bubble doesn’t reach far enough to protect them from assaults on their rights.
Rayne @ 255
Rayne – way back @ 141 I said I’d bring up something controversial “just for fun”. I can tell I’ve touched a nerve, and I really didn’t want to, just wanted to encourage people to always question their ideas, nothing is sacred. The belief that some things are unquestionable is what has gotten this country into the mess it’s in. A word of caution, people who are not as nice as me, will view your emotion laden remarks and sensitivity as insecurity and weakness. Just frame your arguments logically, and respond. If you are secure in your beliefs, you should not get upset if someone challenges them.
boxer — your sense of fun doesn’t seem like encouragement as much as provocation, and by more than myself based on reactions upthread from others.
You may perceive my and our responses as insecurity and weakness; far from it. This quite simply is a community that no longer takes provocations lying down. Frankly, playing nicely and being dispassionately logical has landed us where we are today, under the thumb of an overgrown fratboy who only understands force and under whom logic has been banished as politically unacceptable.
And logic has yet to crack any conservative’s opinion, in my observation; all my cool, reasoned discussions with them have been for naught. It’s taken ubiquitously human tragedy and pain before they realized they had no safety net save that purchased by liberals. Then and only then has any effort I’ve made hit home.
War-damaged son? cracked open their consciousness about the foolishness of this war.
Suffering and dying babies? cracked open any conservative religious tenet and exposed it as hypocritical its lack of mercy for its abhorrence of abortion.
Slow, lingering death borne in genes? cracked open the fakery of the culture of life for what it was in its avoidance of stem cell research.
Ethos and logos did not seal the deal. Only mutual human pathos did it.
Rayne @ 257
The Republicans are sowing the seeds of their own destruction, then.
You have to re-watch Bob Woodwards interview on C-span 3/7/07. what a freakin joke. One that has always been held to a standard of talkin about truth – just spewed the total lie that there was not an “underlining crime”? WTF Can someone take the time to address the Armitage time line.
The interview is on c-span 2 and was done @ George Mason U by a Presidential histornia
In the Corporate State, corporate media are State media.
Rayne @ 257
I can’t believe I’m going to take time out of my 4th to respond to this. But, I suppose, on the offhand chance that there are third parties monitoring our dialog, I owe them something. Where to start?
First, your reaction was, and is, predictable. This means someone can push your buttons and make you do things. You are way too easy to manipulate.
Second, if someone goes back a follows this conversation from its inception, they will see that you so were completely blinded by self-righteousness that you were unable to grasp what the conversation was about – always question authority and never allow ourselves to become too comfortable.
Third, in all of the examples you gave, the force for change came from outside events, beyond anyone’s control. If this is the only way, then there is no point in any of this.
Fourth, the examples you site, in your case may lead to positive change, but that is not necessarily the rule. In the majority of circumstances, human suffering leads to more human suffering. For every Cindy Sheehan there are 100 Iraqi fathers, sons, brothers, and mothers, who want to get even.
Lastly, and most importantly the phrase “playing nicely and being dispassionately logical has landed us where we are today” is the language of death. These words, usually coming from Bush, Cheney, Rove, etc…ARE THE WORDS that have landed us where we are today. The reason to use logic, no one said it should be dispassionate, is to avoid emotional overreaction. If you won’t let yourself understand this you will never have peace
SnarKassandra @ 127
And don’t forget the one about sending his agents amongst us who commit crimes and are protected by sham trials…Bush has essentially made a sham of the Judicial system.
He has insulted the Grand Jurors, the Prosecutor, the Jury, Judge Walton (his own appointee), the Appellate Court Judges, and the LAW! He has stripped all meaning out of the sentencing guidelines!
It gives credence to Paris Hilton’s whining…after all she spent 22 days in jail for a misdemeanor charge of driving on a suspended license.
Libby gets off with ZERO days for FOUR FELONIES that relate to lying in a case that involved exposing a COVERT CIA Officer that was still travelling abroad on WMD-related missions when Novak exposed her duties!
“LARRY KING: Do you think the judge was unkind?
HILTON: You know, my lawyers even said that with this kind — it wasn’t for a DUI, it was for a suspended license — that people only — I was walking in there assuming I was just going to get community service. That’s what my lawyer said at the time. So when he sentenced me to that much time in jail, it was shocking, because that doesn’t happen, ever.”
Paris Hilton ~ 22 days…Bush didn’t commute HER SENTENCE!
In fact has he ever commuted anyone elses sentence BEFORE they served even ONE DAY? In ALL his years as Governor or President???
Did he ever show the same regard to all those milions of “first-time offenders” that had to serve jail time? Did he strike 30 months off THEIR SENTENCES because they were “nice guys”? “Parents”? Only committed a little perjury and destroyed evidence?
I was only aware of Bush giving pardons to people years after they had served their sentences…not before? Of people who admitted their guilt and reformed their lives?
But if he ever did something like this I’d like the Bushbots to point it out!
boxer -
For what it’s worth, I didn’t see your raising the question about our own insularity (if there is such a word) as a criticism. I heard it more benignly. It is always a good question in my opinion to ask oneself. To be self-aware as well as having a keen eye for the shadow outside which strikes me as the domain of politics. Personally, I don’t know if I’m able to live a spiritual life which calls for self-examination and inquiry, and engage in politics as an extension of that spiritual life and not distorting it, if that makes any sense.
peony @ 263
I understand and very much respect the thoughtfulness of your comments. I hope life is treating you well. Sincerity is unfortunately rare these days. The world needs more people like you.