zuno?

Bush just on the tv looking pale, grey and stammering endlessly…

keep calling the WH!

Here’s some great ways for all of us to SPEAK OUT!

http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..an-do.html

“Never let it be said that this generation failed to do the very least we possibly could in defense of our nation.” -Scarlet P.

Bush: “I made a calculated considered judgment.”

Go Christy!

Thanks for all you’re doing today.

I would like to see about a 100 million postcards show up at the White House with some appropriate message.

Marcy gave a stunning summary of the facts last night on msnbc.

We all know what happened, but a lot of people are just now getting the word.

So then… are we advocating that our Speaker commence impeachment hearings on Cheney?

Christy, keep pounding them, and I’ll keep calling.

It’s a good day to be at the Lake, isn’t it?

-S

Banana Republicans ?

Logo of a elephant with the stars replaced by a banana (yellow of course :)

“not going to protect one staffer and sacrifice the guy this Pres. asked to stick his head in the meat grinder because of the incompetence of others.”

Why does the media always miss the BIG picture?
Cheney’s Smokin’ Gun Pointed At Bush…

Ongoing furtherance of a criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice in an investigation of the betrayal of a national security asset in a time of war, by the apex of the executive branch.

Joe Wilson on the Thom Hartmann show now.

I just asked my Congressman to support impeachment now. It’s time. Obstruction of justice.

FWIW, I’ve been trying to call the WH for the last hour and the line’s been busy.

FDL has been, and continues to be, the point of the spear on this. Thanks.

Yeah, keep it up Christy!

It’s easy to get down when it is shown how easily this administration trods upon the rule of law and the will of the people.

We need more like you to continue stoking the fires.

Red heads rule!

OldCoastie @ 2

Bush just on the tv looking pale, grey and stammering endlessly…

keep calling the WH!

Why was he on? Trying to explain why he is obstructing justice?

This whole thing just stinks to high heaven! The decision handed down yesterday that Scooter should go to jail indicated that the judges thought there was no big basis for a successful appeal.

Now the president does this? Anyone who believes in real law and order should hang their heads at this action…

marcy is absolutely spot-on. . .
as are you, today, CHS!

nolo @ 211

just yesterday, the president claimed
that mr. libby’s punishment did not
fit the crime. that simply is
not borne out by any reliable
evidence. to wit:

courtesy of talkingpointsmemo, we
learn of an aging war vet, with 25 years
of honorable military service, in failing
health — and he is a law enforement worker
to boot! — sentenced to 33 months
for two (not four!) counts of felony perjury
before a grand jury, investigating a gun
company case — rita v. u.s. — the
opinion was published june 21, 2007:

. . .The basic crime in this case concerns two false statements which Victor Rita, the petitioner, made under oath to a federal grand jury. The jury was investigating a gun company called InterOrdnance. . .

– justice breyer’s purality opinion,
in rita v. u.s., 551 u.s. ___ (2007)

and, from usa today reporting:

. . .The justices upheld a 33-month sentence given to Victor Rita for perjury and making false statements. Rita is a 25-year military veteran and former civilian federal employee. . . The prison term falls within the guidelines range and was upheld by the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, answering the question of whether sentences within the guidelines ordinarily will be considered reasonable. . .

mr. libby’s sentence was at the low end of the guidelines.

so — where are we on the commutation of
the sentence of VICTOR A. RITA, mr. president?

seriously — i propose a FREE RITA campaign!

let’s get on it folks – if bush really
did this solely because the sentence was
excessive — LET’S GET ALL OVER THIS!

let us put the lie to mr. bush: he
simply did it to avoid scooter’s almost
certainly-coming-squealing, from a jail-
cell, about the involvement of cheney and
bush in the c.i.a. leak case.

This is a slap in the face to the citizens of the United States…

and it was done with so much impunity…

egregious @ 7

Marcy gave a stunning summary of the facts last night on msnbc.

We all know what happened, but a lot of people are just now getting the word.

And it took her all of two minutes. Kinda takes away from the “too complicated for the average American to understand” talking point.

I heard Marcy on Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now radio show this morning, and I disagree with her about one thing. If one purpose of commuting the sentence (but not pardoning) was to preserve Libby’s 5th Amendment right not to testify, that’s easy to get around: John Conyers can easily get Congress to grant Libby immunity for his truthful testimony. Then he can be asked all the questions that we’d all like to have the answers to: did Cheney order him to do the leaks? Did he coordinate his efforts with Armitage and Rove? What did the president know, and when did he know it? Was Plame’s identity officially declassified? By who, and under what authority?

Is there a link to the 1974 law that says a President can’t use presidential power to cover-up a crime?

EPU’ed

From Brooks’ babbling at the NYT:

In short order, Wilson established himself as the charming P.T. Barnum of the National Security set, an inveterate huckster who could be counted on to wrap every actual fact in six layers of embellishment. His small part in the larger fiasco of the Iraq war would not have registered a micron of attention had the villain of the epic — the vice president — not exercised his unfailing talent for vindictive self-destruction.

Joe Wilson and I differ a lot on politics but it really gets me that Brooks denigrates Wilson in this way. As our top diplomat in Baghdad in the run up to the First Gulf War, Wilson was face to face with Saddam Hussein and stood up to him. If Brooks had been there, he would have been cr*pping in his pants.

Mr. Bush, Rove and Cheney think Americans are dummies.

Nixon took the frontal approach to dealing with a threat to his presidency: he canned the prosecutor. That didn’t work out so well for Tricky Dick in the end, as Deputy Assistant to the President Dick Cheney may have noticed.

So yesterday Bush and Cheney tried a new tack: defanging the prosecutor. Strip his work of its sting.

Bush is lying. He did not make the “decision”. It was handed to him, probably by Addington, at Cheney’s direction.

Now, Bush is the Obstructer of Justice.

Cheney just coup’d Bush.

Arrest them all for treason.

OldCoastie @ 6

I would like to see about a 100 million postcards show up at the White House with some appropriate message.

What do you want the postcards to say? I’ll make pdf files, I have one set made already today from a comment earlier.

They have the Oath of the President on them with a standard positin flag, a flag upside down indicating distress and one with just the oath.

I’d be happy to make another set.

Steve @ 23

Is there a link to the 1974 law that says a President can’t use presidential power to cover-up a crime?

Sure, but it’s a Catch-22. How can you prove a crime was committed and then covered up if you can’t get through the cover up of the crime?

The interesting twist to all this is that Bush’s commuting of Libby’s prison sentence, his obstruction of justice, is now giving a lot of publicity to the Libby case. Now more people are finding out what this case is all about. People who have been benighted about the case are curious. An acquaintance asked me this morning what “the Scooter thing” is all about.

Pace: egregious @ 7.

Joe Buck @ 22

I heard Marcy on Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now radio show this morning, and I disagree with her about one thing. If one purpose of commuting the sentence (but not pardoning) was to preserve Libby’s 5th Amendment right not to testify, that’s easy to get around: John Conyers can easily get Congress to grant Libby immunity for his truthful testimony. Then he can be asked all the questions that we’d all like to have the answers to: did Cheney order him to do the leaks? Did he coordinate his efforts with Armitage and Rove? What did the president know, and when did he know it? Was Plame’s identity officially declassified? By who, and under what authority?

Oh, I like this idea . . . have to give it some more thought, but at first glance, you may be on to something here.

Bwahahahahaa!

wildassguess – judging from the look on the shrub’s face this morning for his 30 second spot on cnn, I say someone MADE him commute Scooter’s sentence… like with a gun in his back sorta thing…

How can we push the phrase Obstruction of Justice into the forefront of the media on this. That’s pretty easy to understand!

Question for Bush: Would you have commuted Benedict Arnold’s sentence?

Millineryman @ 28

OldCoastie @ 6

I would like to see about a 100 million postcards show up at the White House with some appropriate message.

What do you want the postcards to say? I’ll make pdf files, I have one set made already today from a comment earlier.

They have the Oath of the President on them with a standard positin flag, a flag upside down indicating distress and one with just the oath.

I’d be happy to make another set.

when send them out again, will you send a set to me?
thanks

Well- It’s happened. Clusterfuck says no prison time and a full pardon later when it’s more -er- convenient. Drives me nuts- I was pretty sure he would do it- but it still came as a shock when he actually did…He figures that the holiday is a good time- by thursday there will be very little press about it- and within a week it’ll be dead… he’s probably right.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 25

Mr. Bush, Rove and Cheney think Americans are dummies.

but a lot of people are dummies – people thought Bush was brave because he stood on a rubble pile – how exactly was that brave?

johnSwifty @ 28

Steve @ 23

Is there a link to the 1974 law that says a President can’t use presidential power to cover-up a crime?

Sure, but it’s a Catch-22. How can you prove a crime was committed and then covered up if you can’t get through the cover up of the crime?

Good point..but..Is that a link to the citation of the law…I’d like to read it.

thanks, Millineryman – I’d prefer to handwrite mine with words like, “Obstruction of justice” or “what are you hiding?” or “time to quit!” = you know – encouraging messages like that…

;-)

Like father like son. Is Scooter Bush’s Cap?

Christy -

What are the terms of Scooter’s probation? I haven’t been able to read all of the comments in prior threads.

The Grand Ole Imperial Treachery-Enabling Rebublicans: The GOITER must be excised.

pwrlght @ 37

Oklahoma kiddo @ 25

Mr. Bush, Rove and Cheney think Americans are dummies.

but a lot of people are dummies – people thought Bush was brave because he stood on a rubble pile – how exactly was that brave?

But he sure “looked” tough when he was on that carrier in a flight suit….

Biodun @ 30, that’s why we need to repeat Bobdog’s assertion that the Iraq war is the underlying crime. People will undertand that.

Joe Buck @ 22

I heard Marcy on Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now radio show this morning, and I disagree with her about one thing. If one purpose of commuting the sentence (but not pardoning) was to preserve Libby’s 5th Amendment right not to testify, that’s easy to get around: John Conyers can easily get Congress to grant Libby immunity for his truthful testimony. Then he can be asked all the questions that we’d all like to have the answers to: did Cheney order him to do the leaks? Did he coordinate his efforts with Armitage and Rove? What did the president know, and when did he know it? Was Plame’s identity officially declassified? By who, and under what authority?

Yes, this is a point I have been wondering about. I don’t think there is anything to gain by allowing the appeals process to move forward (I am assuming that if Conyers gives Libby blanket immunity the appeals process will be halted???). And since it is almost certain that Bush will eventually grant a full pardon to Libby, why don’t Conyers and Leahy beat Bush to the punch and haul his ass up to congress and force him to testify.

Although it does occur to me that Cheney and Bush would try to obstruct that by claiming that once again, that the conversation between Libby and Cheney falls under the auspices of exectutive privilege. And if they try that–wouldn’t congress then have grounds to impeach on the grounds that the hiding behind exectutive privilege is a clear case of obstruction of justice and contempt of congress and grounds for impeachment. IANAL, but I would really love to know what some real constitutional experts think of this kind of scenario.

The bottom line is that, as Christy said earlier today, Bush has handed the Dems in congress his ass on a silver platter. It is up to them to use this opportunity to push back hard.

rwcole @ 36

Well- It’s happened. Clusterfuck says no prison time and a full pardon later when it’s more -er- convenient. Drives me nuts- I was pretty sure he would do it- but it still came as a shock when he actually did…He figures that the holiday is a good time- by thursday there will be very little press about it- and within a week it’ll be dead… he’s probably right.

I don’t want to think like that anymore, rw. I can’t disagree with you, in fact my natural skepticism and lack of faith in this congress make me inclined to completely agree; but it is defeatist. I’m going to keep emailing my congress folk today and worry and try to keep my outrage long enough to act again tomorrow. Apathy is the second biggest opponent here, behind the Bush administration.

OldCoastie @ 32

wildassguess – judging from the look on the shrub’s face this morning for his 30 second spot on cnn, I say someone MADE him commute Scooter’s sentence… like with a gun in his back sorta thing…

Yup – and now he knows that he is personally vulnerable. As I said on the previous thread, he passed the Obstruction of Justice “buck” to himself, at the direction of probably Cheney, who would wants his job, but can’t get elected.
Why else would Wolfowitz have any confidence that he could participate in politics again. The AEI is working overtime on this stuff as we speak. Libby – next stop, AEI.

USA – next stop Iran and Syria.

Joe Buck @ 22

If one purpose of commuting the sentence (but not pardoning) was to preserve Libby’s 5th Amendment right not to testify, that’s easy to get around: John Conyers can easily get Congress to grant Libby immunity for his truthful testimony.

my congressman made the same suggestion to me this morning.

That press conference with Tony Snow was intense. Compare that to the lick-the-boots conferences they used to have right after 9/11 and in the lead up to the Iraq War. It’s like the press took a vacation for three years and they’re finally showing up to work.

This is not the first coverup the administration has committed. Ask Jesselyn Radack.

Under court order, the DOJ was told to hand over all evidence related to the capture and questioning and torture of John Walker Lindh.

They did what everyone else is allowed to do. ( snark!) They deleted the emails. They tossed the hard copies out of the file.

Then they went after Jesselyn when she recovered the ‘missing emails’ and presented them to the Judge who ordered them.

Coverups and abuse of power is HOW these people work. Ask the many whistleblowers–TRUTH TELLERS–who have been attacked by this administration.

The problem is not finding just ONE piece of evidence of abuse of power, lies, or criminal activity. The problem is that the media and Congress refuse to act upon it!

The message is clear.

someone downstairs says cnn is reporting that bush says he’s gonna pardon libby

I’m very concerned for the Republican party, which once had principles. But too often they work to short-circuit the system, excuse their criminal friends, or appoint highly partisan and unqualified people.

There’s a reason the right so often rigs the game and resorts to distraction, distortion and subterfuge. Because they have to. Their “ideas” are too weak to persuade, so they cheat.

You know, I didn’t think the media was going to run with this like they have. I guess they’re a little miffed that Judy Miller spent 2 1/2 months in jail to avoid telling the truth, while Scooter Libby isn’t going to do any time at all.

Four crimes– not “a” crime, four crimes.
That’s the message of Operation: Administration Minimizing thatI gave the operator at the White House.
That, plus the fact that this “Education” President has taught my children well, regarding the ways of the president’s world: Take care of the one covering up for you and all’s well.
I did start out the call by thanking the woman on the other end for the more-hectic-than-usual day she was likely having and for listening to the many callers — can’t begin to tell you how thankful she was for the consideration.
Let’s be good as we combat evil; in that way, we cannot lose.

From me to my party:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..w&NR=1

postcard to the shrub – “Thanks! You just ruined the Republicans chances for many years to come!”

This morning a guy called in to the local morning show and suggested everyone make signs saying

ENOUGH

to protest this criminal administration. I like it.

Where ever you are on the 4th, take a sign with you, no matter what you put on it. Be visible this holiday. Don’t let Bush use a slow week to hide his actions, turn a spotlight on them.

From NPR, Bush says he thought long about the commutation. OK, I’m betting “long” for Bush was the time it took Cheney to corner him and shove the paper in front of him to sign.

I have no art skills, and even fewer computer skills. But is there some way to get an image of the American flag and superimpose a question mark on it (as in, what does this flag symbolize in 2007)? If so, and if someone can tell me how to do it, I’ll print it out and “fly” it tomorrow.

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 41

Christy -

What are the terms of Scooter’s probation? I haven’t been able to read all of the comments in prior threads.

Let’s see . . . I’m just drawing parallels from other probation situations with which I’m familiar (drugs, embezzlement, etc.), not looking at the specific order of the court:

not associating with your former colleagues, so as not to be drawn back into your felonious activities;

not having anything to do with any classified materials, so as not to be tempted to lie about what you’ve done with them;

not lying to any officers of the court in any future legal testimony;

(That last one might be very interesting, if as was suggested above, Conyers were to grant Libby immunity, Libby lies again, and gets caught again.)

What about the admitted crimes in the WH that aides were using RNC email accounts which is illegal? After what a big deal they made about Al Gore using his house phone for fundraising, you’d think that someone might have to pay for that.

Crime for Republicans is all a matter of opinion and inflluence.

Steve @ 38

johnSwifty @ 28

Sure, but it’s a Catch-22. How can you prove a crime was committed and then covered up if you can’t get through the cover up of the crime?

Good point..but..Is that a link to the citation of the law…I’d like to read it.

Steve – instead of a law, it is the Supreme Court’s decision rendered in 1974 in U.S. v. Nixon (link to Wikipedia): United States v. Nixon

Thanks, Christy. Between this and Marcy’s crystal clear statement on Hardball, I think I have somethings I can print up and hand to my 80 yr old mother to read. She doesn’t watch that much news, yet I hear her say, “But nobody really committed any crime did they? I feel sorry for him (Libby)”

My mom isn’t connected to the toobz. And she always asks how I know the bloggers are telling the truth. It is hard to explain to her.

AnnieW @ 43

But he sure “looked” tough when he was on that carrier in a flight suit….

exactly my point! and did you notice that Bush’s first comments came when he was at Walter Reed. One more time Bush uses veterans to make himself look brave.

Hey Bush – Daddy got you out of Vietnam and you drank and snorted your way through the 60’s and 70’s. You are not a veteran or a hero or brave. You are a coward – the worst kind. Do the country and the world a favor – go to Crawford for the next 18 months and do no more damage.

Hugh @ 58

From NPR, Bush says he thought long about the commutation. OK, I’m betting “long” for Bush was the time it took Cheney to corner him and shove the paper in front of him to sign.

Long as in how long it takes to read “My Pet Goat.”

Sacramento area readers;

Call Cong. Matsui–they have had a few calls today, but our area is not holding up its end in expressing outrage to Congress.

wish someone would put up Bush momentary appearance this morning – he really didn’t look or sound good…

perris @ 51

someone downstairs says cnn is reporting that bush says he’s gonna pardon libby

Bush said he wouldn’t rule anything out – which means that in Jan 09 Libby gets his pardon as Bush heads out the door.

Do we know where Cheney was yesterday? Was he seen in Kennebunkport during the Putin “summit?” Or were he and Addington (spit!) at the White House drafting the document for Chimp to sign upon his return?

Libby Pardon: Fly Disgraced Red White and Blue at Half Mast this 4th

Dick Cheney and George Bush are a disgrace to our country. They are skillful liars as are all psychopaths. In fact lack of concern for community or democratic values as in putting oneself above the law combined with habitual lying defines psychopathy. It defines Cheney and Bush.

I personally don’t think Scooter is a psychopath on the order of Cheney and Bush. I believe he lived in an environment where lying and duplicity were practiced daily on the most egregious levels. Living in this environment day in and day out, he had little practical knowledge or experience that there could or might be even one possible iota of repercussion for bold faced lying. Lacking the snakelike skills of a Cheney or Bush he blew it.

That Scooter, the person, should not have to spend years in prison strikes a sympathetic chord with me.

That Scooter, the representative of an administration that adheres to no moral system in the pursuit of power and economic gain, should avoid justice makes me vomit.

I think we should fly all American flags at half staff this 4th and until these mendacious psychopaths are escorted out of the White House, one way or the other.

Better yet perhaps, would be to visit or demonstrate in D.C. and simply leave flags at the White House gates and the Supreme Court building. This, turning in of the flags, will represent that the Red, White and Blue is used only for propaganda by Bush, Cheney and the neocon party and it no longer represents American values.

It has been disgraced

-cognitorex-

Survey USA says that 60% of the public thinks that Libby should have gone to jail- 21% agrees with what Bush did- and ANOTHER 17% say he should have gotten a full pardon. 38% of americans are in favor of letting scoots off the hook—fuckin amazing- incredible- stupid fuckin sheeple!!

This turns the whole thing into a partisan pissing match. Goopers will support Clusterfuck- at least 95 % of em.

The Republicans stopped being a political party a long time ago. They are nothing less than a massive criminal conspiracy.

I haven’t heard nearly enough about how those in power are supposed to be held to a higher standard, as opposed to lowering the standard due to their position. This President has not only condoned, but has become complicit in Libby’s crimes! And he has shown himself to be incapable of holding anyone who is close to him accountable for anything, including following several of his own Executive Orders. I believe that he has violated his oath of office, FWIW, which, apparently, is nothing.

johnSwifty @ 65

Hugh @ 58

From NPR, Bush says he thought long about the commutation. OK, I’m betting “long” for Bush was the time it took Cheney to corner him and shove the paper in front of him to sign.

Long as in how long it takes to read “My Pet Goat.”

hahahahaha – that is the first laugh I have had since yesterday. Thanks Swifty!

OldCoastie, yes indeed nothing says Obstruction of Justice like a handwritten statement.

Vote if you haven’t already. Poll now at 71%.

http://www.capitalnews.org/

W won’t rule out (or in) a pardon.

President Clusterfuck let tied up his justice dept and the judiciary system of america for years- and he knew all along that if Scoots was found guilty- he’d free his ass..He pissed away millions for nothing..

From Bush’s statement yesterday:

Mr. Libby was a first-time offender with years of exceptional public service…

When does someone get a second chance to obstruct a national security investigation?

Boy was I naive, to think that there might be something timid or vascillating in the advice of Bush’s lawyers, or the Washington Post, to commute instead of pardon:

from TPM commenter:
“I havent seen this noted but i think the reason for the commutation is that a pardon would mean that Libby was no longer exposed to criminal sanctions and thus had no Fifth Amendment privilege. As it stands he has a fine and probation at stake during the pendency of the appeal which inulates him ( and Bush and Cheney) from havaing to answer questions before Congress”

This stinks of Addington and Cheney and Libby.

They just threw Bush under the bus.

According to the AP:
“I made a judgment, a considered judgment,” the president said. “I stand by it.” At the same time, he left the door open for the possibility of a pardon later.

Bush spoke to reporters after visiting wounded soldiers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington.

How ironic that he was visiting wounded soldiers, who really did something to serve their countries, but have to live with their injuries the rest of their lives. Can Bush commute those sentences? Can Bush commute the sentences of those who lost their lives in his war?

Elliot_you have mail.

SnowJob says…

“In the Washington culture, things get leaked all the time,” he stated.

The Titanic is leaking… no, it is sinking!

Libby is only a deck chair in this context. Albeit the “Captain’s” chair. LOL!

Up next… more “leaks” cascade into structural failure as the BusChen Behemoth bifurcates and sinks beneath the waves.

When Americans Who Work For The Government Wake Up And Smell The Coffee They Should Do The Patriotic Thing And Open The Seacock.

Scuttle BusChen!

This is the first of two shoes to drop.

Next shoe? Iran.

chris @ 63

Thanks, Christy. Between this and Marcy’s crystal clear statement on Hardball, I think I have somethings I can print up and hand to my 80 yr old mother to read. She doesn’t watch that much news, yet I hear her say, “But nobody really committed any crime did they? I feel sorry for him (Libby)”

My mom isn’t connected to the toobz. And she always asks how I know the bloggers are telling the truth. It is hard to explain to her.

If folks really want to thank Christy, Marcy, Jane, and the rest of the FDL Plameologists pushing for the rule of law, you might want to hit the tip jar up on the right hand side.

Christy,
With everything you loaded into the first 3 paragraphs, all I can say is:

Is It Impeachable Yet?

One of the bloggers at Daily KOS found a Congressional report dating back to 1974 in which an historical dialogue between Founding Fathers George Mason and James Madison was quoted. Mr. Madison offered that if the President or Vice President even so much as presented the suspicion of wrongdoing to the American people, they should be removed.

The mere suspicion.

I should think all those Strict Constructionists out there in Libertarian and NeoCon land would also agree that the Founder’s ideas for the threshold conditions for impeachment should also be honored.

pwrlght @ 74

johnSwifty @ 65

Long as in how long it takes to read “My Pet Goat.”

hahahahaha – that is the first laugh I have had since yesterday. Thanks Swifty!

Of course he’ll pardon — on his way out the door. So poor beleagured Scooter and his very white family don’t have to carry all that nasty felon baggage around for the rest of his life. But only after he doesn’t need to plead the 5th any more.

Scumbags.

Joe Buck @ 22

I heard Marcy on Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now radio show this morning, and I disagree with her about one thing. If one purpose of commuting the sentence (but not pardoning) was to preserve Libby’s 5th Amendment right not to testify, that’s easy to get around: John Conyers can easily get Congress to grant Libby immunity for his truthful testimony. Then he can be asked all the questions that we’d all like to have the answers to: did Cheney order him to do the leaks? Did he coordinate his efforts with Armitage and Rove? What did the president know, and when did he know it? Was Plame’s identity officially declassified? By who, and under what authority?

I don’t mean to be a defeatist, but I’d really like to know what would prevent Scooter from lying his ass off to Congress? Yes, he could lose his immunity for lying, but wouldn’t they have to prove it? And if Fitz couldn’t do that, how could Congress?

TeddySanFran @ 69

Do we know where Cheney was yesterday? Was he seen in Kennebunkport during the Putin “summit?” Or were he and Addington (spit!) at the White House drafting the document for Chimp to sign upon his return?

Wildarsed speculation here, but I would venture to guess that Cheney and Addington are not welcome at Kennebunkport. But I bet Fred Feilding was there, and I bet Baker was there. I smell Poppy all over this. He knows his little Chimp is in legal jeopardy. The scene in Maine was not about saving the little one’s legacy. It was about saving the Bush family dynasty’s ass. Via Putin (Bush Sr’s foreign policy legacy re the end of the cold war) and the commutation rather than the pardon.

One other question… It was reported yesterday that the President closed up shop at Kennebunkport and left to return to Washington, leaving the press gaggle behind, so he could sign the commutation.

Was he done with his meetings with Vladimir Putin? What was so important that it had to be done IMMEDIATELY? Was the commutation THAT important? It surely could have waited another day or two…

What am I missing?

OldCoastie @ 67

wish someone would put up Bush momentary appearance this morning – he really didn’t look or sound good…

I guess that 10:00 PM bedtime ain’t happenin’ so much these days.

I think the shrub is in serious legal danger – damned if you do, damed if you don’t… if Scooter’d gone to jail, he would have talked… shrub is betting he can run out the clock by obstructing…

no wonder he looked so pale this morning.

Sojourner @ 91

One other question… It was reported yesterday that the President closed up shop at Kennebunkport and left to return to Washington, leaving the press gaggle behind, so he could sign the commutation.

Was he done with his meetings with Vladimir Putin? What was so important that it had to be done IMMEDIATELY? Was the commutation THAT important? It surely could have waited another day or two…

What am I missing?

Poppy Bush: it was a two-fer.

We’re just dumbing down justice. That’s the nub of it.

Jane Hamsher @ 88

pwrlght @ 74

hahahahaha – that is the first laugh I have had since yesterday. Thanks Swifty!

Of course he’ll pardon — on his way out the door. So poor beleagured Scooter and his very white family don’t have to carry all that nasty felon baggage around for the rest of his life. But only after he doesn’t need to plead the 5th any more.

Scumbags.

Good to see you, Jane.

Still keep wondering what went on at the Down East version of Yalta over the weekend …

Bush-43 may be POTUS, but the grownups were ex-heads of, respectively, CIA and KGB; very experienced in damage control.

Say Bush-41 is very worried about Bush-43 sullying the “Bush” name; talks over with his colleague how to handle it. They agree that the implicit threat of Scooter talking has to be stopped.

Bush-41 writes out Bush-43’s instructions about the commutation on a piece of paper (which he is then to eat?) and tells him to go do what he has to do, first thing.

Scooter’s discretion better not be in doubt … If I were he, I’d be very careful crossing the street. Nice, secure cell might begin to look rather reassuring to ol’ Scooter.

Haven’t seen any comment by Larry Johnson yet but I’m sure it’s coming.

OldCoastie @ 93

I think the shrub is in serious legal danger – damned if you do, damed if you don’t… if Scooter’d gone to jail, he would have talked… shrub is betting he can run out the clock by obstructing…

no wonder he looked so pale this morning.

I honestly don’t think Libby would have ever talked. If he did he would have lost his meal ticket from the Neo Cons and their think tanks. I don’t understand what motivated Bush but then again I never did.

“Why was it that important?”

To get it in BEFORE the fourth so that it would die during hte holiday..

Bush is in zero legal trouble. Bush is NOT going to be impeached. Bush is the same pathetic 26% approval president today that he was on friday.. It’s all over- the Libby thing- over and done with. Bush may get a ration of shit for a week or two and that will be about it.

It’s the sheeple- the sheeple did this.

Woodhall Hollow @ 45

Joe Buck @ 22

I heard Marcy on Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now radio show this morning, and I disagree with her about one thing. If one purpose of commuting the sentence (but not pardoning) was to preserve Libby’s 5th Amendment right not to testify, that’s easy to get around: John Conyers can easily get Congress to grant Libby immunity for his truthful testimony. Then he can be asked all the questions that we’d all like to have the answers to: did Cheney order him to do the leaks? Did he coordinate his efforts with Armitage and Rove? What did the president know, and when did he know it? Was Plame’s identity officially declassified? By who, and under what authority?

Yes, this is a point I have been wondering about. I don’t think there is anything to gain by allowing the appeals process to move forward (I am assuming that if Conyers gives Libby blanket immunity the appeals process will be halted???). And since it is almost certain that Bush will eventually grant a full pardon to Libby, why don’t Conyers and Leahy beat Bush to the punch and haul his ass up to congress and force him to testify.

Although it does occur to me that Cheney and Bush would try to obstruct that by claiming that once again, that the conversation between Libby and Cheney falls under the auspices of exectutive privilege. And if they try that–wouldn’t congress then have grounds to impeach on the grounds that the hiding behind exectutive privilege is a clear case of obstruction of justice and contempt of congress and grounds for impeachment. IANAL, but I would really love to know what some real constitutional experts think of this kind of scenario.

The bottom line is that, as Christy said earlier today, Bush has handed the Dems in congress his ass on a silver platter. It is up to them to use this opportunity to push back hard.

So why wouldn’t Libby just lie to Congress, wait for someone out there to prove him a liar, and then get a pardon as the President leaves.

pwrlght @ 99

OldCoastie @ 93

I think the shrub is in serious legal danger – damned if you do, damed if you don’t… if Scooter’d gone to jail, he would have talked… shrub is betting he can run out the clock by obstructing…

no wonder he looked so pale this morning.

I honestly don’t think Libby would have ever talked. If he did he would have lost his meal ticket from the Neo Cons and their think tanks. I don’t understand what motivated Bush but then again I never did.

My feeling is that what motivated him was the recent ruling, not allowing Libby to stay out of jail pending appeal.

About the only thing that could top this (Libby) is an attack on Iran.

Of course, you’re right. It’s all part of the obstruction pattern:

Reporter: Did [Cheney] ask for the president president to spare his friend?

Snow: We never, as you know, talk about internal deliberations. Nice try. I mean, this is exactly what we’re talking about right now before the House and Senate. And we are not going to characterize specifically any kind of advice or plea that somebody may make.

My bold.

pwrlght @ 99

OldCoastie @ 93

I think the shrub is in serious legal danger – damned if you do, damed if you don’t… if Scooter’d gone to jail, he would have talked… shrub is betting he can run out the clock by obstructing…

no wonder he looked so pale this morning.

I honestly don’t think Libby would have ever talked. If he did he would have lost his meal ticket from the Neo Cons and their think tanks. I don’t understand what motivated Bush but then again I never did.

His Dick made him do it.

It’s quite ballsy of Howard Dean (DNC) and Charles Schumer (DSCC) and Chris Van Hollen (DCCC) to ask me for money today simply because I’m outraged at the President’s commutation of Irve Libby’s prison sentence.

There is one institution that made a major effort to illuminate the events of Valerie Plame’s betrayal and the trial of Irve Libby: you’re soaking in it!

Firedoglake has provided this invaluable service, one I acknowledge with my contribution today, at the PayPal button uptop of this page.

Won’t you please join me? Help ensure that this resource, at least, will be viable as we continue to fight the good fight and find solace with one another. The strength I get from all of you is reflected in my small contribution today.

I urge each of you to give what you can to Firedoglake today.

Thanks, ‘pups.

I only had thankyou notes. So I put NO thankyou
and told bush he disgraced our country.
I am licking the stamps now.

Joe Buck @ 22

I heard Marcy on Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now radio show this morning, and I disagree with her about one thing. If one purpose of commuting the sentence (but not pardoning) was to preserve Libby’s 5th Amendment right not to testify, that’s easy to get around: John Conyers can easily get Congress to grant Libby immunity for his truthful testimony. Then he can be asked all the questions that we’d all like to have the answers to: did Cheney order him to do the leaks? Did he coordinate his efforts with Armitage and Rove? What did the president know, and when did he know it? Was Plame’s identity officially declassified? By who, and under what authority?

There’s no disagreement that I see here. The point was that Bush/Cheney issued the commutation as an “incentive” to keep Libby from flipping and squealing on them.

But as you said, Libby can be compelled to testify in front of Congress, and offered immunity.

However, what’s the leverage Congress possesses to force the truth from Libby if he doesn’t have to serve any time? All Libby has to do is sit in front of Congress and pull a Gonzales and say “I can’t recall” ad nauseum. The Fifth Amendment only works in this case if one attempts to protect themselves from self-incrimination — but Libby has already been tried and convicted and sentenced, can simply stick to his story while disclosing nothing more, and might not even have any reason to plead the Fifth at all.

Certainly we could and should ask the Judiciary to grill the snot out of Libby to see if his testimony in front of Congress doesn’t agree with his grand jury testimony…but the grand jury testimony would also have to be disclosed, at the possible risk of tipping off the bigger fish.

I don’t see a disagreement; I simply see a bigger challenge that needs to be hashed out and planned carefully. And I don’t see how the House Judiciary Committee is going to be up to the job…would rather see Schumer and Whitehouse go after him with the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Or maybe Waxman has a tack he can take with House Oversight Committee.

Once again, Dubya gave us all (except Scooter, of course) the finger.

We are not just going away. Nixon made the same mistake. Bush just committed a crime to cover up a crime and we shall beat the drum.

DUDE @ 101

Woodhall Hollow @ 45

Yes, this is a point I have been wondering about. I don’t think there is anything to gain by allowing the appeals process to move forward (I am assuming that if Conyers gives Libby blanket immunity the appeals process will be halted???). And since it is almost certain that Bush will eventually grant a full pardon to Libby, why don’t Conyers and Leahy beat Bush to the punch and haul his ass up to congress and force him to testify.

Although it does occur to me that Cheney and Bush would try to obstruct that by claiming that once again, that the conversation between Libby and Cheney falls under the auspices of exectutive privilege. And if they try that–wouldn’t congress then have grounds to impeach on the grounds that the hiding behind exectutive privilege is a clear case of obstruction of justice and contempt of congress and grounds for impeachment. IANAL, but I would really love to know what some real constitutional experts think of this kind of scenario.

The bottom line is that, as Christy said earlier today, Bush has handed the Dems in congress his ass on a silver platter. It is up to them to use this opportunity to push back hard.

So why wouldn’t Libby just lie to Congress, wait for someone out there to prove him a liar, and then get a pardon as the President leaves.

What if they hauled Karl Rove, Judy Miller and Bob Novak up there first. And Addington (we still don’t know the full story there–). Etc, etc. Libby would be last, and if they set it up properly, he would have some serious explaining to do. If the committees put lawyers in charge of the questioning, as in Iran Contra and watergate, some headway could be made, and perhaps we would have our Butterfield moment. It would be worth a try, or so it seems.

Millineryman @ 83

Elliot_you have mail.

Thanks! Really nice!

I’ll always remember this particular Fourth of July.

There’s an urgency to the Declaration of Independence this year. And there’s a need to renew our commitment to our country and to each other.

Liberty means something.
Justice means something.

Christy -

Here’s an excerpt from a 2005 Kentucky Supreme Court decision that someone mentioned in an FDL thread in late April:

The United States Supreme Court first interpreted the pardoning power granted
by Article 11 in United States v. Wilson , 32 U.S. (7 Pet.) 150, 8 L.Ed. 640 (1833) . In that opinion, Chief Justice Marshall established four principles with respect to the operation and effect of a presidential pardon: (1) a pardon exempts the person upon whom it is bestowed from punishment for the crime pardoned; (2) a pardon is of no effect unless it is accepted by the person pardoned and (3) brought to the attention of the court in which it is sought to be enforced; and (4) a pardon is subject to judicial review and interpretation. (emphasis mine)

A pardon is an act of grace, proceeding from the power intrusted [sic] with the execution of the laws, which exempts the individual on whom it is bestowed, from the punishment the law inflicts for a crime he has committed; it is the private, though official act of the executive magistrate, delivered to the individual for whose benefit it is intended, and not communicated officially to the court. It is a constituent part of the judicial system, that the judge sees only with judicial eyes, and knows nothing respecting any particular case of which he is not informed judicially; a private deed, not communicated to him, whatever may be its character, whether a pardon or release, is totally unknown, and cannot be acted upon. . . .

. . . A pardon is a deed to the validity of which delivery is essential, and delivery is not complete without acceptance; it may then be rejected by the person to whom it is tendered; and if it be rejected, we have discovered no power in a court to force it to him.

It may be supposed, that no being condemned to death would reject a pardon ; but the rule must be the same in capital case and in misdemeanors. . . .

[The pardon] may be absolute or conditional ; it may be controverted by the prosecutor, and must be expounded by the court. These
circumstances combine to show, that this, like any other deed, ought to be brought judicially before the court, by plea, motion or otherwise.

If Chief Justice Marshall’s opinion in United States v. Wilson is still valid, does it apply to reprieves and to commutation of sentences?

Bush himself is obstructing justice right now.

HillCountryGal @ 109

Once again, Dubya gave us all (except Scooter, of course) the finger.

It’s the only sign he knows. He learned it as a little thing when he sat on his pappy’s lap.

Sally @ 98

Haven’t seen any comment by Larry Johnson yet but I’m sure it’s coming.

He was on Thom Hartmann on Air America earlier this morning.

If Chief Justice Marshall’s opinion in United States v. Wilson is still valid, does it apply to reprieves and to commutation of sentences?

you are forgetting there is now Roberts and ailto who will gladly overturn precedence at the beck and call of their puppeteers

Oklahoma kiddo @ 8

So then… are we advocating that our Speaker commence impeachment hearings on Cheney?

YES. Even if Cheney can keep enough repubs in line to prevent conviction, we must make the attempt. Not to do so suggests to the rest of the world our acceptance of this unlawful and disastrous administration.

Bush scuttled out of Kennebunk like the rat that he is.

Left the media WH press corps behind so that he could get a running start out the door for the long weekend.

If he can’t handle the Washington press corps, how can he handle Al Qaeda.

As to Putin. I don’t think he budged a bit. Bush was an abject failure as president and a fisherman and a boat captain.

-GSD

johnSwifty @ 46

Apathy is the second biggest opponent here, behind the Bush administration.

Amen.

QuakerGirl @ 115

HillCountryGal @ 109

Once again, Dubya gave us all (except Scooter, of course) the finger.

It’s the only sign he knows. He learned it as a little thing when he sat on his pappy’s
lap.

Bush is a little thing and has a little thing.

DUDE @ 87

Christy,
With everything you loaded into the first 3 paragraphs, all I can say is:

Is It Impeachable Yet?

One of the bloggers at Daily KOS found a Congressional report dating back to 1974 in which an historical dialogue between Founding Fathers George Mason and James Madison was quoted. Mr. Madison offered that if the President or Vice President even so much as presented the suspicion of wrongdoing to the American people, they should be removed.

The mere suspicion.

I should think all those Strict Constructionists out there in Libertarian and NeoCon land would also agree that the Founder’s ideas for the threshold conditions for impeachment should also be honored.

Here it is from KagroX

The following is from a report written and released by the Judiciary Committee in 1974 in the aftermath of the Watergate crisis.

In the [Constitutional] convention George Mason argued that the President might use his pardoning power to “pardon crimes which were advised by himself” or, before indictment or conviction, “to stop inquiry and prevent detection.” James Madison responded:

[I]f the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds [to] believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty…

Madison went on to [say] contrary to his position in the Philadelphia convention, that the President could be suspended when suspected, and his powers would devolve on the Vice President, who could likewise be suspended until impeached and convicted, if he were also suspected.

Millineryman @ 28

OldCoastie @ 6

I would like to see about a 100 million postcards show up at the White House with some appropriate message.

What do you want the postcards to say? I’ll make pdf files, I have one set made already today from a comment earlier.

They have the Oath of the President on them with a standard positin flag, a flag upside down indicating distress and one with just the oath.

I’d be happy to make another set.

Please email the pdf to me.

jay@ackroyd.org

I’ll post on facebook.

HJave any Democrats, in light of the Libby commutation called for the impeachment of Cheney?

Bush isn’t going to be impeached.

Jane Hamsher @ 88

pwrlght @ 74

hahahahaha – that is the first laugh I have had since yesterday. Thanks Swifty!

Of course he’ll pardon — on his way out the door. So poor beleagured Scooter and his very white family don’t have to carry all that nasty felon baggage around for the rest of his life. But only after he doesn’t need to plead the 5th any more.

Scumbags.

Correct me if I’m wrong but a pardon removes the government’s punishment but not the guilt. He remains a felon only an unpunished one. Other actions that flow from his guilt such as disbarment are not covered by the pardon since they are not under the power of the Executive.

I thought about flying my flag upside down but somehow that just does not feel right. I have called or tried to call the WH, my rep.s and still feel dissatisfied. I know I’m not alone in my outrage, yet I have a bad feeling that some other smelly shoe is about to drop.

Hugh- that sounds right- but one of the lawyers here should probably comment.

What an insult to the FBI.

Where there is remorse and sorrow, there is hope of learning and moving forward. BushCo, on the other hand, seems remorseless, blind, and defiant in their claims of victimhood.

Real men admit their mistakes.
Real men learn from their mistakes.
Real men tell the truth, even when it’s difficult.

Sounds weird, but I’m tempted to write a personal ‘thank you’ note to my local FBI office, simply to let them know that some citizens do appreciate and respect their efforts.

To see the hard work of the FBI be trampled by BushCo is deeply offensive. To be trampled on by men who never admit mistakes, never learn anything, and lie is a travesty.

If Congress turns a blind eye to this disaster, then we’re really lost. Congress needs to support the FBI, even if it doesn’t give two hoots about us so-called ‘lefty’ bloggers.

Karl Rove must be laughing his ass off. Not over the commutation, but over how feckless the democrats are. The democrats are going to do exactly nothing about the commutation. I imagine Rove is also chuckling quietly and rubbing his hands together at the thought of a Hillary presidency and how much fun it will be to watch Hillary fail (with some of his help) and to see another republican in the White House in 2013.

I don’t mean to be a defeatist, but I’d really like to know what would prevent Scooter from lying his ass off to Congress? Yes, he could lose his immunity for lying, but wouldn’t they have to prove it? And if Fitz couldn’t do that, how could Congress?

Fitz DID prove it. Scooter was CONVICTED of perjury – a jury of his peers found him GUILTY of lying to the FBI and the Grand Jury.

oregondave @ 116, thank you. Perhaps Larry will include in his remarks somewhere what he is hearing from the CIA folks.

It’s all so frustrating. But I know who I’m angry with. And it’s not Bush or for that matter the GOP. I expect this behavior from Republicans.

So the WH comment line is still busy – has anyone gotten through?

dalloway @ 89

Joe Buck @ 22

I heard Marcy on Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now radio show this morning, and I disagree with her about one thing. If one purpose of commuting the sentence (but not pardoning) was to preserve Libby’s 5th Amendment right not to testify, that’s easy to get around: John Conyers can easily get Congress to grant Libby immunity for his truthful testimony. Then he can be asked all the questions that we’d all like to have the answers to: did Cheney order him to do the leaks? Did he coordinate his efforts with Armitage and Rove? What did the president know, and when did he know it? Was Plame’s identity officially declassified? By who, and under what authority?

I don’t mean to be a defeatist, but I’d really like to know what would prevent Scooter from lying his ass off to Congress? Yes, he could lose his immunity for lying, but wouldn’t they have to prove it? And if Fitz couldn’t do that, how could Congress?

That’s just it, Fitz DID prove that Libby was lying his a** off, got convictions on four out of five counts, got a sentence within the appropriate sentencing range per the federal guidelines and was ready to have him go to jail when the Chimp intervened.

AnnieW @ 43

pwrlght @ 37

but a lot of people are dummies – people thought Bush was brave because he stood on a rubble pile – how exactly was that brave?

But he sure “looked” tough when he was on that carrier in a flight suit….

No one thought he was brave. The public, through no fault of their own, had a certain awe of the Presidency and invested the holder of that office with all their confidence and support in a seeming time of crisis. Touchingly naive more than outright stupid.

GSD @ 119

Bush scuttled out of Kennebunk like the rat that he is…

And while you were typing that, he’s probably fled to the tumbleweed ranch for more vacation & plotting.

Wise viewers should be bracing for an 18 month crime spree, orchestrated from a moving hideout of sorts.

Cheney doesn’t have to hide in the bushes any more. No one can touch him so he can come on out.

I hope we are spared Schicklgruber and Cheney and the rest of the fascists telling us tomorrow what a great country we are.

readerOfTeaLeaves @ 129

What an insult to the FBI.

Where there is remorse and sorrow, there is hope of learning and moving forward. BushCo, on the other hand, seems remorseless, blind, and defiant in their claims of victimhood.

Real men admit their mistakes.
Real men learn from their mistakes.
Real men tell the truth, even when it’s difficult.

Sounds weird, but I’m tempted to write a personal ‘thank you’ note to my local FBI office, simply to let them know that some citizens do appreciate and respect their efforts.

To see the hard work of the FBI be trampled by BushCo is deeply offensive. To be trampled on by men who never admit mistakes, never learn anything, and lie is a travesty.

If Congress turns a blind eye to this disaster, then we’re really lost. Congress needs to support the FBI, even if it doesn’t give two hoots about us so-called ‘lefty’ bloggers.

And an insult to the CIA as well.

The bottom line: continued obstruction of justice to protect all those lies, to protect George Bush and Dick Cheney. And Republicans are cheering them on — disgraceful.

let the American voting public be reminded of this in November ‘08…

Sally @ 138

Cheney doesn’t have to hide in the bushes any more. No one can touch him so he can come on out.

I hope we are spared Schicklgruber and Cheney and the rest of the fascists telling us tomorrow what a great country we are.

the bushes or the Bushes?

Well at lest the line is just busy not I’m sorry the number you have dialed is not in service at this time or may have been changed.

Looking back at it- this thing was all over the day that Fitz decided not to charge Cheney and Rove and not to make the outing charge..Whatever he did after that was going to lead to this exact spot. The perjury charges don’t get anyone’s dander up and Libby is not central enough to the administration to draw a lot of heat.

If Fitz had gone BIG we might have had a chance- he went puny and this is the result.

Hugh @ 126

Correct me if I’m wrong but a pardon removes the government’s punishment but not the guilt. He remains a felon only an unpunished one. Other actions that flow from his guilt such as disbarment are not covered by the pardon since they are not under the power of the Executive.

Fine, probation. Punishment.

Why would anyone believe anything Libby has to say, with or without immunity, to any Senate or House Committee–after all, he’s a convicted perjurer.

From me to my party.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY0IXwsCxZI

pwrlght @ 134

So the WH comment line is still busy – has anyone gotten through?

A little after it opened this morning. I got a busy signal first try then the second it rang for ten-twelve times, machine picked up, prompted me to a couple of quick menus, said all operators were busy and I could try the comment line (which I had called directly) but that someone would be with me shortly and there would be silence while I waited. Less than a minute later, I had a live human and left my comment. Politely of course.

perris @ 117

If Chief Justice Marshall’s opinion in United States v. Wilson is still valid, does it apply to reprieves and to commutation of sentences?

you are forgetting there is now Roberts and ailto who will gladly overturn precedence at the beck and call of their puppeteers

No, I am not forgetting that at all; John Marshall’s pervasive influence can still be felt two centuries later.

Brendan @ 136

Annier @ 43

But he sure “looked” tough when he was on that carrier in a flight suit….

No one thought he was brave. The public, through no fault of their own, had a certain awe of the Presidency and invested the holder of that office with all their confidence and support in a seeming time of crisis. Touchingly naive more than outright stupid.

How is it no fault of their own? They accepted Bush’s lies when facts demonstrated that what he was saying was wrong. Please remember when we went into Iraq Hans Blix, the UN Inspector, kept saying he wasn’t finding WMD’s and he wanted to keep working. I call that deliberately ignorant not naive.

I certainly do not disagree with Marcy, indeed I worship every letter her flying fingers type, but to be somewhat nit-picky, and pretending that I live in a logical world rather than reality as created by BossMan Dick and the Pretender in Chief regarding:

Rather than serving time in jail, Libby will remain free, with a fine and probation as the only remaining punishments for lying and obstructing a criminal investigation.

I’m sure such rules don’t apply to members of Bu$hco but in my experience one of the terms of “probation” is to live in compliance with the law. Therefore unless Scooter is as I type informing some “real” justice officials (not just “Torture Boy Abu”) about what he knows about the ongoing criminal conspiracy to cover-up war crimes and treason then he is in VIOLATION of his probation and it is time for a perp walk for not adhering to the terms of his probation. On the other hand Scooter’s probation probably has “special” requirements such as “do not divulge knowledge of ongoing criminal activity, even if you are a co-conspirator in aforesaid criminal activity.

Gee Dubya will undoubtably be the only president who is remembered for his most coherent statement being flippin’ off the American People . The fact that this odious decideration was shoved down Americans’ throats of the eve of the Eve of America’s birthday just kinda sums up this whole cabal’s attitude towards what the USA USED to stand for. Happy Fourth of July Sheeple!

Alice B @ 121

QuakerGirl @ 115

It’s the only sign he knows. He learned it as a little thing when he sat on his pappy’s
lap.

Bush is a little thing and has a little thing.

;))

TSF at 106-
LOL “…Firedoglake…you’re soaking in it!”

Hugh @ 126

Jane Hamsher @ 88

Of course he’ll pardon — on his way out the door. So poor beleagured Scooter and his very white family don’t have to carry all that nasty felon baggage around for the rest of his life. But only after he doesn’t need to plead the 5th any more.

Scumbags.

Correct me if I’m wrong but a pardon removes the government’s punishment but not the guilt. He remains a felon only an unpunished one. Other actions that flow from his guilt such as disbarment are not covered by the pardon since they are not under the power of the Executive.

What does it matter, Jane’s completely right. Scooter’s lilly white butt will never see the inside of a courtroom again; neither as a counselor nor a counselee. He’s going to take the bazillions Tucker Carlson’s Dad gives him, scrape the pocket change off the top to pay his fine, and retire to the the islands. Maybe he’ll buy one, like Rummy did. It seems to be in vogue.

If there’s any good to come of it, it will be that Scooter remains a living symbol of how to have your cake and eat it too!

Let’s hope that continues to raise righteous indignation in an ever widening circle of influence.

Bush would not have done this commutation if he thought he could not get away with it. Shame on you Democrats.

Did y’all see the bumper sticker saying that even Paris served her time? (Scroll down a screen or two.)

Had enough yet? ~ Convince the Judiciary Committee.

Not Pelosi. She’s made her position clear. Not Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. These 23 folks. Every one of them a Democratic member of the House Judiciary Committee. Twenty-three who are essential to making impeachment happen. They can vote to hold impeachment hearings.

Cheney first!

“The bottom line: continued obstruction of justice to protect all those lies, to protect George Bush and Dick Cheney. And Republicans are cheering them on — disgraceful.”

Some pigs are more equal than others.

dems couldn’t muster a 25% vote in the whole house to impeach any of the criminals…it’s over.

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 113

Christy -

Here’s an excerpt from a 2005 Kentucky Supreme Court decision that someone mentioned in an FDL thread in late April:

The United States Supreme Court first interpreted the pardoning power granted
by Article 11 in United States v. Wilson , 32 U.S. (7 Pet.) 150, 8 L.Ed. 640 (1833) . In that opinion, Chief Justice Marshall established four principles with respect to the operation and effect of a presidential pardon: (1) a pardon exempts the person upon whom it is bestowed from punishment for the crime pardoned; (2) a pardon is of no effect unless it is accepted by the person pardoned and (3) brought to the attention of the court in which it is sought to be enforced; and (4) a pardon is subject to judicial review and interpretation. (emphasis mine)

A pardon is an act of grace, proceeding from the power intrusted [sic] with the execution of the laws, which exempts the individual on whom it is bestowed, from the punishment the law inflicts for a crime he has committed; it is the private, though official act of the executive magistrate, delivered to the individual for whose benefit it is intended, and not communicated officially to the court. It is a constituent part of the judicial system, that the judge sees only with judicial eyes, and knows nothing respecting any particular case of which he is not informed judicially; a private deed, not communicated to him, whatever may be its character, whether a pardon or release, is totally unknown, and cannot be acted upon. . . .

. . . A pardon is a deed to the validity of which delivery is essential, and delivery is not complete without acceptance; it may then be rejected by the person to whom it is tendered; and if it be rejected, we have discovered no power in a court to force it to him.

It may be supposed, that no being condemned to death would reject a pardon ; but the rule must be the same in capital case and in misdemeanors. . . .

[The pardon] may be absolute or conditional ; it may be controverted by the prosecutor, and must be expounded by the court. These
circumstances combine to show, that this, like any other deed, ought to be brought judicially before the court, by plea, motion or otherwise.

If Chief Justice Marshall’s opinion in United States v. Wilson is still valid, does it apply to reprieves and to commutation of sentences?

IANAL but I would say yes and no. Marshall’s key thought is that a pardon is an exemption from punishment for a crime that has been committed by the pardonee. With regard to acceptance of a pardon, a pardonee can refuse a pardon. This is different from what happens with a commutation where acceptance is not needed for the commutation to enter into effect. As for 3 and 4, Marshall was defining turf. The President can pardon or commute and these actions will have real effects for the pardonee or the one whose sentence is commuted. What he was arguing is that for a court to recognize a pardon it must be reported to the judiciary and once there the judiciary has the right to consider it. I’m not sure that 3 and 4 have ever gained much currency in federal courts or with the Executive but this is just my opinion.

TexB @ 139

readerOfTeaLeaves @ 129

What an insult to the FBI.

Where there is remorse and sorrow, there is hope of learning and moving forward. BushCo, on the other hand, seems remorseless, blind, and defiant in their claims of victimhood.

Real men admit their mistakes.
Real men learn from their mistakes.
Real men tell the truth, even when it’s difficult.

Sounds weird, but I’m tempted to write a personal ‘thank you’ note to my local FBI office, simply to let them know that some citizens do appreciate and respect their efforts.

To see the hard work of the FBI be trampled by BushCo is deeply offensive. To be trampled on by men who never admit mistakes, never learn anything, and lie is a travesty.

If Congress turns a blind eye to this disaster, then we’re really lost. Congress needs to support the FBI, even if it doesn’t give two hoots about us so-called ‘lefty’ bloggers.

And an insult to the CIA as well.

I imagine there are more than a few pissed-off USA’s, too.

“The bottom line: continued obstruction of justice to protect all those lies, to protect George Bush and Dick Cheney

.

Let’s not forget what all this lying and obstruction is ultimately about. It is about TREASON – about deliberately identifying a covert CIA agent as political payback.

pwrlght @ 134

So the WH comment line is still busy – has anyone gotten through?

Yep, I finally got through. The line rang for about three minutes before they answered, then I sat through a recording for probably five minutes until they answered. The poor girl who answered sounded weary.

rwcole @ 143

Looking back at it- this thing was all over the day that Fitz decided not to charge Cheney and Rove and not to make the outing charge..
If Fitz had gone BIG we might have had a chance- he went puny and this is the result.

RW, part of the value of FDL for me has been learning more about the law, and I recall CHS writing about how difficult, but honest, it must have been for Fitz to scope his indictments ONLY to what he could absolutely prove in court.

Remember that Fitz’s strategy was correct — he did get 4 ‘guilty’ verdicts.

I’d hate to devolve into Fitz-bashing, when he’s done his part to uphold justice. Don’t take your eye off the ball; this is BushCo’s responsibility, and Fitz did his best. Now, the rest of us and Congress need to step up to the plate.

The larger questions at this point: will Congress back up Fitz and the FBI? Because if Congress doesn’t, then we’re lost.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 154

Bush would not have done this commutation if he thought he could not get away with it. Shame on you Democrats.

Congress can’t stop either a presidential pardon or a commutation, OK. The best they can do is make a squawk — which Conyers is doing by holding hearings on it.

newtonusr @ 160

TexB @ 139

And an insult to the CIA as well.

I imagine there are more than a few pissed-off USA’s, too.

I’ve been having to work, clean house, etc. in addition to following the news. Can someone please explain the connection between the scooter libby/valerie plame stuff and the USA firings?

Someone needs to hire John Dean to pursue
all legal actions.
The guy is a legal scholar and sharp as a
tack.
Hire him…
We can’t make this political… it is a legal
question…

Zee @ 15

FWIW, I’ve been trying to call the WH for the last hour and the line’s been busy.

Be sure to include Holy Joe in your calling campaign. I’m dying to hear his “bi-partisian” thoughts on the rule of law as displayed by his new BFF’s. Does he agree we are a nation of laws or not? Does he agree a President can commute the sentence of a key member of his administration when he and his VP are under investigation themselves? Can he share with us his definition of Obstruction of Justice and explain how this action taken by Bush does not fall into that definition? Given Bush’s wisdom over the improper sentencing of his friend and accomplise, does Holy Joe feel it would be judicially prudent to re-examine the sentencing portions of all our incarcerated citizens or is this an acceptable exception? Does he feel that expecting equal distribution for all CONVICTED felons according to our established laws is unreasonable? If there are exemptions, can he direct us to where we can find them in writing so the little people can take advantage of them should they get convicted by a jury of their peers?

By the way, the latest scam is that Bush “hasn’t ruled out a full pardon”. Which is bull, because if he DID give Libby a full pardon, then suddenly Libby can’t plead the Fifth.

newtonusr @ 144

Hugh @ 126

Correct me if I’m wrong but a pardon removes the government’s punishment but not the guilt. He remains a felon only an unpunished one. Other actions that flow from his guilt such as disbarment are not covered by the pardon since they are not under the power of the Executive.

Fine, probation. Punishment.

Again this is a matter of language. I was talking about pardons. It gets confusing because clemency/commutation is a specialized kind of pardon. It comes out of the pardoning power conferred by the Constitution but operates on different rules. It’s rather like the difference between narcissus and daffodils. All daffodils are narcissus but not all narcissus are daffodils. All acts of clemency and commutation are types of pardons but not all pardons involve clemency or commutation.

TexB @ 165

I’ve been having to work, clean house, etc. in addition to following the news. Can someone please explain the connection between the scooter libby/valerie plame stuff and the USA firings?

I’m implying none. Just that a superb case by a prime USA is nullified like this.

newtonusr @ 170

TexB @ 165

I’ve been having to work, clean house, etc. in addition to following the news. Can someone please explain the connection between the scooter libby/valerie plame stuff and the USA firings?

I’m implying none. Just that a superb case by a prime USA is nullified like this.

Ah, thank you.

Press Corps To Snow: “You’re Insulting Our Intelligence”

Bush hasn’t ruled out a full pardon- cause he intends to give a full pardon on the way out the door. Libby will piss away a lot more money in appeals- but it’s all a matter of buying time until the pardon comes- bout 18 months from now- at that point the crime is perfected and complete.

I found this site by accident during the Libby trial and have been hooked ever since, even though this is my first post.

I have told a number of folks about this incredible site and am very thankful for its existence, just knowing people are as outraged and saddened as I am. Donation to Paypal coming right now! Back to lurking, but thank you to ALL that give such wonderful commentary and insight…it lessens my helpless feelings about what’s going on and spurs me into action.

Peterr @ 86

If folks really want to thank Christy, Marcy, Jane, and the rest of the FDL Plameologists pushing for the rule of law, you might want to hit the tip jar up on the right hand side.

I’ve just kicked in another mite. This 4th of July the true patriots are here.

Phoenix Woman @ 168

By the way, the latest scam is that Bush “hasn’t ruled out a full pardon”. Which is bull, because if he DID give Libby a full pardon, then suddenly Libby can’t plead the Fifth.

So when shrub pardons Libby in 2009, does Libby get his $250,000 back?

TexB @ 172

Press Corps To Snow: “You’re Insulting Our Intelligence”

What, now they wake up?
Gimme a break.Thats what they have been doing day in day out for years.

Shuster on msnbc used the words, “cover up”.

rwcole @ 158

dems couldn’t muster a 25% vote in the whole house to impeach any of the criminals…it’s over.

Dude, you gotta shake it! It ain’t over ’til we say it’s over. Did we give up when the Germans bombed pearl harbor!

Have a coke and a smile!

Oklahoma kiddo @ 154

Bush would not have done this commutation if he thought he could not get away with it. Shame on you Democrats.

Actually, OK Kiddo, I see it differently.
To me, this reveals just how desparate and frightened Bush and Cheney are… there may be more good news here than we realize at first blush.

Why would Bush flip off the FBI and CIA unless he’s terrified? How can he even think of making a speech to any law enforcement guild in this nation after yesterday’s pardon, which flagratntly insults DoJ, the FBI, and the CIA? It’s bizarre.

Notice the half-full part of this most strange and toxic glass.

All the ‘ooooh, I knew he’d do this’ is a bunch of bullshit trash talk.
Focus on WHAT he did.
Pardon me, but why would any President insult the FBI, the CIA, and DoJ — unless he was scared sh*tless about something?

What is Bush so afraid of?
Because this demolishes his credibilty severely.
So why did he risk it?

It’s bizarre.

rwcole @ 173

Bush hasn’t ruled out a full pardon- cause he intends to give a full pardon on the way out the door. Libby will piss away a lot more money in appeals- but it’s all a matter of buying time until the pardon comes- bout 18 months from now- at that point the crime is perfected and complete.

It won’t cost Scooter a penny. There’s long been a Libby Defense Fund.

“Besides the obvious — that you can’t, as the president claimed, honor the verdict of the jury and then basically overturn it — what was the downside for him? The twenty-something percentage of people who still back him probably know Scooter Libby, most of them socially, and appreciate his pardon; and the rest of the country probably has never heard of Scooter Libby. This is not a country that pays attention to anything complicated, and even has a hard time with the simple. Outside of the bloggers, it’s not something that will upset Joe Sixpack.”

Bill Maher

Well someone has got style;

http://www.blah3.com/article.p…..3003617102

Another shiny thing uncovered:

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:

MAN THOUGHT TO HAVE DRUG-RESISTANT STRAIN OF TUBERCULOSIS,
SETTING OFF WORLDWIDE SCARE, ACTUALLY HAS A LESS SEVERE FORM OF THE
DISEASE, ACCORDING TO FEDERAL HEALTH OFFICIALS

Shiny new thread upstairs, folks!

Libby is an escaped felon. He got out through the sewer system in the dark of night. Confederates were waiting with a getaway car, to take him back to D.C..

That’s the message I’m going with…the Bush-Cheney crime family strikes again, from their safehouse in Washington.

I watched Marcy on MSNBC talking about this and the guy asked a question that was real and she gave a real answer, but it too long for TV. I watched the other “pundits” and they had their little sound bites. I saw that this was a pundit game for them. Who could make the best pithy comment?

But to paraphrase Josh Marshall, “remember, this is about what Joe Wilson found out.” And that is not a game. Hundreds of thousands of people died because the Bush admin wanted to use the mushroom cloud fear to justify a war.

They knew that all the other excuses would be seen as not good enough. The US had to be in mortal danger for us to attack another country. So they created that mortal danger.

That is where the morality of this lies.

They used our fear to start a war.
They using intimidation to shut up the person who found the truth.
They lied to obstruct the investigation.
They are using their power to keep obstructing it.

There’s another phoney talking point in all this that obscures the fact that this is obstruction of justice: Supposedly, Bush didn’t want to “antagonize his conservative base” (Wash. Post). Since when is the Office of Special Plans the “conservative base”? And if their base is so riled up, why have “most Republicans remained conspicuously silent” (Wash Post)? And at the same time you see this argument, you see the contradictory argument that Bush is willing to “take the heat” because he has nothing to lose.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews

Also, two points bear repeating in underlining that this is obstruction of justice:

It went against the prescriptions to commute before he had served time.
He didn’t consult with DOJ.

He was in an awful hurry.

Phoenix Woman @ 164

Oklahoma kiddo @ 154

Bush would not have done this commutation if he thought he could not get away with it. Shame on you Democrats.

Congress can’t stop either a presidential pardon or a commutation, OK. The best they can do is make a squawk — which Conyers is doing by holding hearings on it.

I realize that. And I don’t actually require the lecture. But the point I make, which may be lost on some, is if my party had not rolled over for the last six or seven years, and had started impeachment hearings on Cheney some time ago and done such things as cut off funding for Iraq, among other actions, then Bush perhaps might not have tried this commutation business. It’s about Democratic backbone. Spine, if you will. Let me ice clear on this. Is clarification needed?

midwestvoter @ 167

Zee @ 15

FWIW, I’ve been trying to call the WH for the last hour and the line’s been busy.

Be sure to include Holy Joe in your calling campaign. I’m dying to hear his “bi-partisian” thoughts on the rule of law as displayed by his new BFF’s. Does he agree we are a nation of laws or not? Does he agree a President can commute the sentence of a key member of his administration when he and his VP are under investigation themselves? Can he share with us his definition of Obstruction of Justice and explain how this action taken by Bush does not fall into that definition? Given Bush’s wisdom over the improper sentencing of his friend and accomplise, does Holy Joe feel it would be judicially prudent to re-examine the sentencing portions of all our incarcerated citizens or is this an acceptable exception? Does he feel that expecting equal distribution for all CONVICTED felons according to our established laws is unreasonable? If there are exemptions, can he direct us to where we can find them in writing so the little people can take advantage of them should they get convicted by a jury of their peers?

I just wrote him a letter. I am not holding my breath for a response. He’s not very responsive at all, HoJoe.

rwcole @ 173

Bush hasn’t ruled out a full pardon- cause he intends to give a full pardon on the way out the door. Libby will piss away a lot more money in appeals- but it’s all a matter of buying time until the pardon comes- bout 18 months from now- at that point the crime is perfected and complete.

What is the statute of limitations on “outing a CIA agent”? In 18 months Libby get a pardon, no more 5th, haul his ass in front of a Grand Jury; if he doesn’t talk, recharge obstruction.

It has to be made very clear; there won’t be a “running out the clock” go free card. This is a area where we have to hammer the Dems; restore the Rule of Law after 01/20/09.

new thread.

rwcole @ 71

Survey USA says that 60% of the public thinks that Libby should have gone to jail- 21% agrees with what Bush did- and ANOTHER 17% say he should have gotten a full pardon. 38% of americans are in favor of letting scoots off the hook–

That is just of the 55% of those who had an opinion… when all is said and done, only 33% of the 1500 SUSA polled was upset with what Bush did. 45% don’t give a rip and the rest support Libby.

Steve

Once Bush is gone- the last thing the dems will want to do if they are in charge is cover this ground again. I just don’t think there’s a chance in hell that anything will happen.

Can the Congress call Irve L Libby in to testify before its committees over the traitorous betrayal of a CIA agent and “should” Irve L Libby lie again before Congress, hit him immediately with a contempt of Congress citation, and slam his holely a** into congress gaol for the offence. Since H. Corpus no longer applies, hold the fecker until the Great Writ is FULLY restored, at law, in all courts, for all people, for ALL time. He would make an excellent hostage for restoring justice, IMO. If the worm doesn’t lie, Congress has the information it needs. Since the Bill of Rights has been suspended for the most part, the protection of the 5th is suspended as well. Some things DO have consequences.

I hear a death knell…. I just can’t figure out if it is for our democracy or for the republican party….

Deep in EPU land but…

A few commenters have bemoaned the futitlity of this entire process (calling reps/Sens is a waste of time, Fitz shoulda gone for Big Time, Dems, Repubs are all corrupt) much to Christy’s consternation.

Well, the wheels of change and justice turn slowly. Can anybody ever have imagined (gee, where have I heard that line before?) that prior to 11/7/06 that there’d be a chance in hell of a Congressional investigation, let alone talk of impeachment?

Patience, folks. Keep calling, writing, hollering. Don’t let this go away.

Give truth back.

rwcole @ 193

Steve

Once Bush is gone- the last thing the dems will want to do if they are in charge is cover this ground again. I just don’t think there’s a chance in hell that anything will happen.

I agree..but if it isn’t done, if the stake isn’t driven into their hearts..they will be back..probably for the final assault.

Excuse me, but when I took American Political History, our teacher, who was a judge, said “Americans get the kind of government they want. If it is a bad government, they are responsible.”

He went on to say that the Presidential election matters not one wit. It is the Congressional election, and friends, this Congress with it’s so-called Democratic-control has done nothing for us. Impeachment is off the table. Pelosi, and Finestine, are members of the upper classes, and Finestine is tied (as anyone in San Francisco knows) very closely to Bechtel.

It is obvious (by his own public admission) that Bush has committed an impeachable offense. He has undermined (at the very least) the fourth amendment of the constitution, which he has sworn to protect. So why is impeachment off the table? Because Nancy Pelosi is a rich woman…..and her interests do not lie with the American people.

And I’m not sure Obama’s or Clinton’s do either.

Having people who represent us (”power obtains from the people”) who don’t believe in what the Founders believed in, is just plain stupid. And it’s our fault. Having a court that is out to gut the very Constitution they are sworn to protect is stupid (again, our fault). I find Bader-Ginsburg’s statement odd too “It’s very lonely here because I’m a woman.” (apologies quote not exact). Well, Madam Justice, I can understand why it’s lonely there, but not because you’re a woman, but because on your record, you are one of the few people on that court (and I realize there are other sane non-monarchists there too) who believes in what was done from 1771 to 1776, and that too is our fault!

What does anyone expect of a man who rigs an election, in partnership with a man who is De Facto, king. And what does one expect when these men use the corporations (who are JUST PEOPLE) to line their pockets. And what do we expect when they send our boys and girls off to die on foreign soil, without a care, and won’t even take care of those of them who stagger back with horrific wounds that will ruin the rest of their lives.

They don’t care, and that is our fault!

Do you want a nation of laws? Then turn out this entire Congress, and put in their place a group who President’s fear! Where are we going to find a group of such people……well, not all of the people who read this blog are sit-and-do-nothing folks. Would I go to Washington if elected? In a New York Minute! Am I being a babe in the woods about what really goes on? No. If I went to Washington, I’d play just as down and dirty as they do, but I wouldn’t undermine the laws of this country, or let people go hungry because I shipped their jobs overseas, or let them worry about living on the street because they happened to get sick.

Dictators ride to and fro on the backs of tigers, and the tigers are getting hungry…..

TexB @ 141, I actually debated “bushes” or “Bushes.” Decided the Bush needs to get out from Cheney. But Cheney has satisfied the Evil One’s base instincts. Talk about the Devil’s Disciples!

Here’s a pretty funny cartoon about Scooter Libby

TexB @ 172

Press Corps To Snow: “You’re Insulting Our Intelligence”

People to Press Corps:

“You’ve been insulting our intelligence for years!”

BluegrassTinTX @ 174

I found this site by accident during the Libby trial and have been hooked ever since, even though this is my first post.

I have told a number of folks about this incredible site and am very thankful for its existence, just knowing people are as outraged and saddened as I am. Donation to Paypal coming right now! Back to lurking, but thank you to ALL that give such wonderful commentary and insight…it lessens my helpless feelings about what’s going on and spurs me into action.

Thank you Bluegrass, and welcome.

Throw this into the mix:
Legal confusion follows Libby decision
The Associated Press
Article Launched: 07/03/2007 02:23:20 PM PDT

WASHINGTON—President Bush forced the CIA leak case into uncharted legal territory when he commuted the prison sentence of former White House aide I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, a federal judge said Tuesday.
Bush eliminated Libby’s 2 1/2-year prison term and left in place his two years of supervised release. But supervised release—a form of probation—is only available to people who have served prison time. Without prison, it’s unclear what happens next.

U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton posed the question to Libby’s attorneys and to Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald: Does this mean Libby won’t actually be required to serve supervised release? Should he just have to report to probation officials as if he spent time in prison?

The law, Walton said in court documents, “does not appear to contemplate a situation in which a defendant may be placed under supervised release without first completing a term of incarceration.”

For now, it appears Libby is in legal limbo. Walton gave both sides until Monday to respond.

Thank you Marcy, Jane, Christy, and the remaining FDL’ers for all that you do.

The check is in the mail!