I spent some time working on paleoclimates and its not just “civilization” in the last 12,000 year, there are points at 30,000 and 60,000 that are just as important (really if you look at it from 200,000 to the present the climate and humans have been in a dance, up till now climate has always been leading, I’ll drop the metaphor for someone more creative).

When was the last time that there was a oceanic transgression above the current high? I thought that this was a 1 meter increase about 5000 years ago…and perhaps related to human activities then.

I don’t recall any transgressions other than that one above the current sea level throughout human prehistory (or the Plio-Pleistocene). In fact, it l0oks as if twe are going to approach temperatures (and CO2 levels) that haven’t been matched in 50 million years.

forgive if posted previously:

The real reason Scooter Libby wasn’t actually pardoned

Please note the reason for the commuting of Scooter’s sentence is so that Scooter can still claim the 5th Amendment in further investigations of Bush, Rove, and Cheney.

Scooter still has an appeal pending, so he can still claim the 5th. A pardon now would have allowed Scooter to be forced to testify without limitation. The pardon will come right after the November 2008 election

(this from BuzzFlash)

Well it keeps the appeals process going, while keeping Scooter out of jail. But the Appeals process would have gone on (likely for another month or two) anyways.

If the courts determine, as Judge Walton predicts, that Libby’s claims have no merit…then at that point he will be in the same boat as if Bush did nothing…or pardoned him.

In fact Walton has a Sword of Damocles over Libby’s head…the probation. If Libby is not cooperative with Fitz subsequent to the Appeals then Walton can rule that Libby is in violation of his PROBATION.

That period lasts for two years from the point of sentencing…or release under normal circumstances (which is what Walton is puzzling about). That would mean that Walton will review the situation sometime in the Spring of 2009 (when Dubya is out of office) and determine if Libby has complied with the terms of his probation.

Judge Walton may get the last laugh yet!

selise @ 42

pach – i spoke with my rep this morning (jim mcgovern) and he got it… his point (without me prompting) was that the house judiciary committee could just grant libby immunity (not like he’s going to serve any time anyway)…. so that he could not take the 5th.

the problem of course, is that there is no reason to expect libby will tell the truth, even under those circumstances. w/o the 30 months hanging over libby – there is just no motivation to come clean. and bush has sent the message that he wants the cover up to continue.

NO, selise. I AM a criminal defense lawyer and I think Libby still retains his 5th Amedndment privilege to remain silent, at least while his appeal is pending and his conviction is “not final” and while he’s serving a sentence of supervised release since that sentence is still subject to modification by the Judge for a violation.

I think we should all first publicly characterize this commutation as an opportunity to reflect on the excessive and overly severe sentences which are deemed “reasonable” by Federal courts everyday in apolitical cases large and small, BUT. . .

The “beauty” of the commutation (as opposed to a pardon)is that it allows Scooter’s appeal to proceed and therefore I would argue that Scooter retains his 5th Amendment privilege, even in the face of a subpoena now. I just watched the insufferable Tucker Carlson on Hardball screaming that there was no reason “not to pardon” Scooter, as opposed to “commute” his prison sentence. But it seeems pretty clear to me as a matter of law that a full pardon would be found to supplant his 5th Amendment privilege to remain silent when subpoenaed, by Congress OR a grand Jury, while a commutation wouldn’t, and that makes all the difference in the world. . . to Rove, Cheney and Bush! “Omerta. It’s Not Just For Mafia Anymore!”

But once Libby’s appeals are completed, which should be sometime this Fall…then he cannot rely on the 5th Amendment…UNLESS the courts order a RETRIAL on the charges…

which voids the current “commuted” convictions…

:-)

So does BUSH let the retrial continue? Or does he pardon in advance? I don’t think one can “commute” non-existent sentences?

anybody see this on AP 20 minutes ago?
christy thoughts? loosehead take?

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush forced the CIA leak case into uncharted legal territory when he commuted the prison sentence of former White House aide I. Lewis ”Scooter” Libby, a federal judge said Tuesday.

Bush eliminated Libby’s 2 1/2-year prison term and left in place his two years of supervised release. But supervised release — a form of probation — is only available to people who have served prison time. Without prison, it’s unclear what happens next.

U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton posed the question to Libby’s attorneys and to Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald: Does this mean Libby won’t actually be required to serve supervised release? Should he just have to report to probation officials as if he spent time in prison?

The law, Walton said in court documents, ”does not appear to contemplate a situation in which a defendant may be placed under supervised release without first completing a term of incarceration.”

For now, it appears Libby is in legal limbo. Walton gave both sides until Monday to respond.

This relates to the claims that commutation allows Libby the opportunity to plead the 5th which a pardon wouldn’t.

In my view Libby STILL has to cooperate with Fitz if he is found guilty through all the appeals. He cannot be tried again (and thus doesn’t face double jeopardy) on any standing conviction.

Walton could simply say that Libby has failed to cooperate with Fitz and revoke the probationary part of the sentence. Non-cooperation is NOT what was commuted by Bush…it would be an ADDITIONAL ACT showing non-contrition.

So let’s say that sometime in early 2009 Walton learns that Libby hasn’t been forthrght with Fitz? He could THEN impose the suspended part of the sentence. Bush couldn’t do anything about it.

In addition, if Libby wins his appeal and gets a retrial…and is found guilty AGAIN…Bush would have to issue a NEW Commutation or pardon Libby. He might have to do so for those charges before Libby is actually tried for them. That would look really odd…and clearly mean that Bush is unwilling to allow his minions to face the same laws that everyone else does.

But then Libby will be compelled to testify and lack 5th Amendment protections against self-incrimination. He faces no jeopardy from his testimony at that stage…especally if he is offered immunity.

At some point Libby will be EXPOSED to someone in the DOJ where Bush cannot “protect” him and he cannot plead the fifth if he himself is not in legal jeopardy for testifying. But not testifying truthfully at that point could send him to jail!

fine, Jane…substitute the phrase ‘criminal trial’ for the shorter hand reference to lawsuit if it suits you, but my underlying point is just the same – you and all the obviously fine minds on this site have devoted your effort for months now, well over a year, into a fixation on the Plame deal. It remains small potatoes in the scheme of things Bushie. And you’re left with what – more anger and rage at having been seen another grand hope evaporate.

You guys here, especially you Jane, have a lot of talent. Yet you’re wasting your time over what is essentially chump change in the hall of fame of Bush crimes. And you don’t have much to show for besides anger and vindictiveness – as exemplifed by your inability to respond to what I said with anything more than insider prattle.

It’s really sad.

Yes, indeed. Redink has made some worthwhile comments and asked some basic questions.

Pachacutec @ 96

don’t feed!

tyvm

:-)

If we can’t feed ‘em, please allow us to roast ‘em !!! *g*

but the fumes are nauseating.

Jacqrat @ 149

Hi, hope you do not mind that I sent your suggestions along to “
viewerservices@msnbc.com and Dabrams@msnbc.com” just a moment ago?

Thanks for those e-mails. I just sent a note asking why they continue to foist Tucker off on us. Not that it will do any good mind you.

suggest send Jon to visit his show the way he sank crossedsparks.

thank you Bergs at 159. It was nice to get an adult expression of opinion instead of silly namecalling.

I appreciate your opinion, though mine is different.

I do admire the talent and energy of the people of who keep this site pounding away (as well as all those many others who do the same at other blog sites). It’s the fixation that strikes me as counterproductive and wasteful. And substituting witless namecalling for debate is not very attractive either. You could get that from the Ann Coulter’s of the world.

apologies kobe: bless yer lil’ heart ribit. broaden yer horizons; more kibbles not quite hidden in the archives and links, and don’t fergit paypal.

Faugh, it stinks in here. Did someone step in troll?

Jane havin’ a lil’ fun, but Kobe’s right on it.
No serious kibbles lost.

Cheney is obviously driving that bus…all the way to Iran.

omg. just had a flashback of kramer driving jerry’s car when the engine overheated…
‘cept’n it’s not even bigtime’s blud, of course…