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New GOP talking point: Bush commuted Scooter's sentence to please his base.
The conscripted:
Janet Hook, in The Los Angeles Times: "Bush's action shows that, with a little more than 18 months remaining in his second term and his influence at its lowest ebb, he is still willing to rely on his signature leadership style -- one that risks polarizing the country to take stands that satisfy his conservative base."
Amy Goldstein in The Washington Post: "Still, the president appeared to calculate that he would antagonize his conservative base too severely if he did not provide Libby some form of reprieve, according to people close to the White House."
InstaHack: "My prediction: Bush will rise in the polls as estranged conservatives warm to him in light of lefty indignation."
John Harwood: "This is not going to be popular with the American public as a whole but Republicans are happy tonight, and I'll tell you, so is Dick Cheney."
Massimo Calabresi, Time Magazine: "On the right, the Republican base, which demanded mercy for Libby, will be placated. Had Bush not acted, they would have turned on him, weakening the last pocket of support he has."
The truth of the matter: Fucking hogwash. According to the new SurveyUSA poll from last night, only 31% of Republicans agree with Bush's decision. This was a move to keep Libby quiet. It had nothing to do with placating Bush's supporters.
Who got it right:
The New York Times Editorial page: "Presidents have the power to grant clemency and pardons. But in this case, Mr. Bush did not sound like a leader making tough decisions about justice. He sounded like a man worried about what a former loyalist might say when actually staring into a prison cell.
Dan Froomkin: "[B]ush's decision yesterday to commute Libby's prison sentence isn't just a matter of unequal justice. It is also a potentially self-serving and corrupt act."
It really shouldn't be too much for serious journalists to follow the story just a little bit before coming to these kinds of outrageously false conclusions. Do they really want to be considered in the same breath as professional shit shovelers like Reynolds?
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zunoed?
whoo hoo
Some signs from around the USA:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot.....m-usa.html
This is how you speak out. Even at baseball games…
{{{{{{JANE}}}}}}
Jane! That’s a great pic up top.
Norman Pearlstine is on Hardball and seems to also understand that Libby was protecting the Chimp’s a**.
I hope GW Bush sweats this one:
The short of it — Reggie is pissed.
Great story. The left needs to harp on this til the cows come home. The commutation was done to protect Cheney and Bush because it allows Scooter to plead the 5th. Then when they’re leaving town 1/21/09 Bush’ll pardon him. They are counting on the Dems not to impeach.
I idea here is that Bush did the dirty Libby deed to protect himself, Dick and Karl. It’s about blackmail and obstruction.
EPU’d from last thread, posted by Scav 237:
Walton…He’s baaaack…
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin.....usion.html
Consider this: the commutation of Libby’s sentence is a sign of the weakness of the White House, not a sign of their strength.
They made a deal with Scooter at the beginning of his trial that he would not serve time in jail. Why? Because if Scooter sings, he can implicate them all in much. They had no choice but to offer Scooter everything that he wanted.
Knowing that they were going to commute his sentence, they did their very best to build a public case for a pardon, even though the case is ludicrous on its face, and was unpersuasive to all except those whose self-interest is directly at stake. Did they assume that they were going to be as low as they are in the polls as they are now? No, they always assume that things are going to get better for them soon.
So, when the appeal bond was denied, the bill came due. Scooter had to be saved from jail, or what? Or else, he talks! Or, someone else talks who can read the writing on the wall, and has come to doubt the assurances that they, unlike crooked congressmen, will never go to jail.
Bush and Rove know that they are pissing away the GOP chances in 2008. One has to ask what could make them willing to do that? And what are they so afraid of that it seems a better alternative?
They are weak, and they are one witness away from having it all come down on them, and they are willing to risk their whole party’s future on saving their own hides.
Remember, Libby can still plead the 5th if he’s asked questions about all this, which he could not have done if he had been pardoned outright.
That’s what the media is refusing to see. Even Josh Marshall has not really figured this out yet.
Who is putting out serious information on Libby’s wife’s threats to spill all? Who was the guy where Plame used to meet (coffee shop) who was murdered a few weeks after she was outed?
AZ Matt @ 7
WaPo Link. yeah, Reggie is pissed and is making sure that the story is alive after the holiday weekend!
Is there a citation to the post H2O-gate law that make it illegal for a President to use presidential powers to cover up a crime?
I said it early yesterday and repeat it here.
W and Darth planned this exit strategy from the beginning.
As for the war, not so much.
dear firepups watching cable “news”…. have any of our congress critters yet used the words “obstruction of justice” or “coverup”?
who’s in charge of our talking points…. i sure wish it could be jane.
OT — My mother’s favorite sax player has passed away:
Pachacutec @ 13
It was just said on Hardballs.
And here’s to you Mr. Fitzgerald. A nation turns it’s lonely eyes to you.
fwiw, copy of what I sent the Speaker. Also sent something to Conyers & my own *sigh* “rep”. & we signed the MoveOn Petition.
All the talk of polls gives me hives. No kidding. I often wonder if they’re not becoming less and less accurate, as people become sick to death of the dang things. Then again, I s’pose the gurus have factored cranks like me into their formulas…
My letter to Pelosi, not that it’s too terrific, but it might trigger some more ideas from other Lake-dwellers. I know I missed a lot.
-
Wait a minute!
Bush absolutely did this to please his base (as well as to obscure any bread crumbs leading to his truly).
But about that word, base. You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means. . . .
Just a reminder, that in US v Nixon (not to be confused with Nixon v US…), it was ruled that executive privilege does not cover the investigation of actual crimes.
This is why it’s important to keep hitting that this commutation is itself a criminal obstruction of justice.
Steve, ask and ye shall receive!
AZ Matt @ 17
Sad day. Bubbles (Beverly Sills) has also passed away. [and I listen to both bluegrass and opera!]
anybody see this on AP 20 minutes ago?
christy thoughts? loosehead take?
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush forced the CIA leak case into uncharted legal territory when he commuted the prison sentence of former White House aide I. Lewis ”Scooter” Libby, a federal judge said Tuesday.
Bush eliminated Libby’s 2 1/2-year prison term and left in place his two years of supervised release. But supervised release — a form of probation — is only available to people who have served prison time. Without prison, it’s unclear what happens next.
U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton posed the question to Libby’s attorneys and to Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald: Does this mean Libby won’t actually be required to serve supervised release? Should he just have to report to probation officials as if he spent time in prison?
The law, Walton said in court documents, ”does not appear to contemplate a situation in which a defendant may be placed under supervised release without first completing a term of incarceration.”
For now, it appears Libby is in legal limbo. Walton gave both sides until Monday to respond.
selise @ 19
Congresscritters? As far as I can tell they’re on vacation.
AWOL as far as I’m concerned. Nancy and Harry should bring them all back to Washington to go back to work TOMORROW.
It’s not as if they don’t have anything to do.
Professor Foland @ 23
Thanks!
Glenn Reynolds is a law professor. This woman named Ann Althouse said I should respect that fact.
Obstruction of justice is not so hard to say media.
selise @ 18
Harry is using “Obstruction of Justice” in his e-mails but that’s about it as far as I know.
LS @ 10
Thanks. Interesting and another legal mess trying to cover up rather than pay the piper. Will Bush and Cheney just make up a new law to suit Scooter/themselves?
Where are the GOP Senators and Congressmen? I’ve heard lots of talk of the Democratic reaction to Bush’s blatant obstruction of justice, but not much from any Republican who wasn’t already on the Libby Cheerleaders squad. So where are the GOP Senators and Congressmen on this? Is there a Republican push for legislation to revise federal sentencing guidelines, given that they’re so excessive?
In light of his utterly transparent self-serving abuse of the pardon power, it is now glaringly evident that the President of the United States is a co-conspirator in a criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice in the matter of a national security leak perpetrated by his own subordinates.
Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.
Relentlessly incinerate the wingnut and Bushie red herrings. If this is not an impeachable offense, we ought strike the clause from the Constitution.
Mr. Fitzgerald. Call Libby in. Give him immunity and force him to sing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9J5Zt2Obko
When Nixon did the Saturday Night Massacre, it was obvious to everyone that he was obstructing the investigation to protect himself. When Shrub kept Scooter out of jail, it was obvious to everyone (evne 69% of Republicans) that he was protecting himself and Big Time. Everyone except the MSM, where for Republicans, “obstruction of justice” is the act that dare not speak its name. Marcy at TNH just posted that she was interviewed for a WaPo article, said the commutation was obstruction, and was edited out of the article in favour or Charlie F****** Black! I truly think the public gets this, the key is to make it as easily understandable and in the media as much as a Clinton bl*wj*b. Obstruction of Justice (OJ) is the new BJ!!!
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
Jane,
OT. kind of. referring to the last thread . . I sent you an e-mail yesterday about a couple of checks I’ve sent that have not been cashed.
And I do know you’ve been well, kind of busy. The e-mail was sent before the sh*t hit the fan. Anyway, it’s there somewhere.
If the President walks up to someone and shoots them dead or rapes and strangles them, is the only way he can be held accountable for a crime and be removed from office, impeachment????
*spit-take*
trifecta @ 28
And neither of them offer as much sound legal information based on FACTS as folks like Christy, loosheadprop, and the other lawyers who hang out here.
In fact, Insta-idiot and Ann Outhouse should probably get some refunds from their law schools for what they DIDN’T learn.
My sense is that they floated out pardon today because they were afraid of Walton’s opinion. In other words keep your mouth shut libby and your wish will be granted..
SuburbanGirl @ 8
harry and nancy have to keep the powder dry. nobody knows why. but they just have to keep it dry. and off the table.
Even Dems aren’t shouting this angle… it was the first thing I thought of when I got Chuck Schumer’s e-mal from the dscc this morning… tauting that we should be outraged that Libby is not serving his time…. but totally neglecting the fact that Bush is covering Cheney’s ass.
How hard is it for people to realize that these fact came out at trial:
1) Cheney was Libby’s “source” for knowledge about Valerie Plame
2) Cheney gave Libby his marching orders to spill the beans about her… which Libby dutifully did.
It’s really quite simple.
But no one seems to be able to spit it out.
And I agree, they had this planned from the gitgo… which is why Cheney didn’t even bother to write a letter in support of Libby.
He knew it wasn’t necessary.
Pachacutec @ 12
pach - i spoke with my rep this morning (jim mcgovern) and he got it… his point (without me prompting) was that the house judiciary committee could just grant libby immunity (not like he’s going to serve any time anyway)…. so that he could not take the 5th.
the problem of course, is that there is no reason to expect libby will tell the truth, even under those circumstances. w/o the 30 months hanging over libby - there is just no motivation to come clean. and bush has sent the message that he wants the cover up to continue.
I’ve spent all day reading this blog while watching the MSM spinmeisters. Except for Joe Wilson on Tweety’s show (first 13 minutes) this has been by far more informative..
Jane, Christy, Para and all the other writers.. You guys are wearin’ me out !!!
Keep up the much needed illumination on the high crimes being committed hourly at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave..
AZ Matt @ 7
As well he should be - its called obstruction of justice anyway you look at it.
A bit OT but am confused about the Blog Ad thingy - do they get that cut automatically from Pay Pal donations. Hope not for I would of just as easily mail a check directly awhile ago.
I think you need to check the survey page again: 31% of conservatives and 32% of GOPers who are familiar with the case agree with Cheney/Bush. About the same % of same informed wingnut groups wanted a pardon (which I think would have been wrong, but been less of an obstruction of justice). About half everybody is familiar with the case.
But your main point is correct, but I think lets slide that lots of education is required by the forces of good, after which we can get 60-70% of all adults disapproving, if attitudes of the currently informed are representative. That will come in handy next electino time.
And it is true that even if 1/3 of conservatives/GOPers wanted a pardon, they are not pleased -the meat of commutation wasn’t red enough for them. So, I got no problem with the main point of the post that the ‘please the base’ line is BS. Just nit-picking.
TRex @ 36
707!!
LS @ 36
pretty much.
According to this post, the RNC fax machine is apparently humming right along,just like it did when Melman was there.
I would love to find that thing and put a well placed ball peen hammer in its guts.
RevDeb @ 47
Unless he has sex, right?
LindaR @ 23
Bush only thinks of himself.. As with every move he makes it is entirely self serving obstruction and personal CYA.
This is one I ran into:
I gave them back that the last two times (excluding Clinton) we did that, we got the #$%^&*s back two presidents later. (Cr*p, they even brought back Kissinger and Nixon as some kind of ‘elder statesmen’.) No. Not again. Never again.
They did the crime, they can f*cking well do the time.
Eureka Springs @ 49
apple falls close to the tree…
…supervised release — a form of probation — is only available to people who have served prison time. Without prison, it’s unclear what happens next.
U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton posed the question to Libby’s attorneys and to Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald: Does this mean Libby won’t actually be required to serve supervised release? Should he just have to report to probation officials as if he spent time in prison?…
looks like the
DeciderObstructor is also the Confuser.Ding. In fact, IMO, this was one of his better chicken-s**t plays. He didn’t have the cajones to go for the full pardon, so he weaseled. (OK, so there’s that whole immunity benefit, but I think only Addington was paying attention there. Bush’s take was mealy-mouthed middle ground. Can you say W-I-M-P? His fave word, just like Poppy.)
It reminds me of his old stem-cell announcement, where we won’t support *new* stem-cell research, but we’ll mess around with the lines we’ve already got. No one’s really happy. No one really wins (especially anyone with a disease in need of research). No need to be intellectually honest.
Pyuh.
according to bush, bush’s base are the haves and the have mores
Libby discussion Newshour PBS
RevDeb @ 46
But, if his vice president or his chief of staff hold the victim down or try to help him cover up his crime, he cannot pardon them. That is obstruction of justice.
Steve @ 27
Direct link to the court opinion:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/.....p;page=683
The sad thing is, if this decision is challenged by Bush, the current court will over turn the decision 5/4. And while they are at it, Marbury v Madison will be over turned..it’s s different world post 9/11, you know.
Busted @ 47
I have a friend who prefers a 9mm hollowpoint into the engine block. Or, in this case, the drum.
If Bush gets away with this Libby thing, it won’t be Karl and Dick who suffer. It will be us. Because we will have appeared weak in the eyes of the American voter. Democrats do something!
As usual, the PBS NewsHour gets stoopid irrelevant people to comment on this. Not that either of them is stupid, but because they know nothing about the case.
i hear ya Jane. these evil neo-cons and their assault on reason and the laws of the constitution, are criminally f*ucking insane!
IMPEACH!
Ed*ard Teller @ 52
kinda points up the utter lunacy of whut the deciderator just did dudn’ it - ‘cept a-course to save himown arse? ayyyuppp!
a precedent among presidents
Why am I listening to NewsHour?
RevDeb @ 60
absolutely pointless discussion!
Woodhall Hollow @ 57
my understanding is that he cannot pardon those persons who have been impeached. Anything else is fair game.
FYI, Marcy up on Democracy Now… now.
According to this blogger, they’ve just turned off the WH’s phone comment line.
Is it true the man Vice President Cheney chose as his closest adviser is a convicted felon?
-GSD
You know… if this commutation gets a pass and a yawn from the media and the Dems… we might as well just hang it up til Nov 08… or maybe for good.
Sometimes I think the politeness of the democratic system needs to be thrown out the door and people need to take to the streets… and not back down.
f*cking liars and crooks and thieves.
Neoconvicts
A nice page from the Pitt Law school on pardons generally and their specific constitutional basis.
Also, I had not realized that executive privilege is a modern construction without Constitutional basis other than generic separation of powers arguments.
I’ve a question for the lawyers around, about what seems like a grammatical ambiguity. The Constitutional phrasing limiting the power of impeachment in Article II, Section 2 is:
Does this prohibition extend only to the person being impeached, or more broadly through all aspects of the case of impeachment?
i.e. if there were articles of impeachment brought concerning the president’s authorization of FISA violations, would the president be prohibited from pardoning anyone connected with that case, or would he only be prohibited from pardoning those specifically being impeached (i.e. possibly himself, or say an NSA director)?
JPL @ 64
I just changed the channel.
Ed*ard Teller @ 67
thar’s a poll for ya… *g*
RevDeb @ 65
I am no expert in this regard, but I have read lately that he cannot pardon those who are implicated in crimes which also implicate him. But I could be wrong about that.
Sometimes when I read the latest lie and and perversion of our democrazy that the supposedly patriotic conservatives/Bush camp has pulled off, I get a very visceral moment of anxiety that emenates from my belly up. Then my mind reminds me that this is an Imperial Presidency based on a stolen election(s)-I have no reason to expect anything more or less. And then I get even more anxious. We are so in deep doo-doo.
Ed*ard Teller @ 67
that link also led to an icky Dershowitz excuse for the commutation
inch by inch, decider decides to get a little bit more popular than the 28%, and 29% obviously better than 28%! So this Libby decision for him is no brainer.
Elliott @ 76
“If the Libby can’t be kept mute, you must commute”…?
It’s OK.
Religious conservative Cal Thomas is pretty much calling for genocide against Muslims.
This nation is being sucked into a cesspool of deceit and mendacity and fascism.
-GSD
ET @ 67
It tells you what kind of comments they’ve been getting. (Time to stick fingers in ears, over there.)
Ed*ard Teller @ 77
that fits
selise @ 42
NO, selise. I AM a criminal defense lawyer and I think Libby still retains his 5th Amedndment privilege to remain silent, at least while his appeal is pending and his conviction is “not final” and while he’s serving a sentence of supervised release since that sentence is still subject to modification by the Judge for a violation.
I think we should all first publicly characterize this commutation as an opportunity to reflect on the excessive and overly severe sentences which are deemed “reasonable” by Federal courts everyday in apolitical cases large and small, BUT. . .
The “beauty” of the commutation (as opposed to a pardon)is that it allows Scooter’s appeal to proceed and therefore I would argue that Scooter retains his 5th Amendment privilege, even in the face of a subpoena now. I just watched the insufferable Tucker Carlson on Hardball screaming that there was no reason “not to pardon” Scooter, as opposed to “commute” his prison sentence. But it seeems pretty clear to me as a matter of law that a full pardon would be found to supplant his 5th Amendment privilege to remain silent when subpoenaed, by Congress OR a grand Jury, while a commutation wouldn’t, and that makes all the difference in the world. . . to Rove, Cheney and Bush! “Omerta. It’s Not Just For Mafia Anymore!”
cc in nm @ 70
The Ladies of the Lake work to hard for that type of attitude…
Rev Deb, I also turned it off and put on music for the soul..
Marcy on Democracy Now is amazing. What command of detail, what clarity.
OtisIsHungry @ 81 -
thank you for the correction and info.
This is simmering nicely, if a little vaguely, on the traditional media burner. It was off their radar once Libby became the fall guy. This could be useful, because this road leads straight back to the build-up to the
waroccupationIraq debacle.Joe Wilson’s been getting a lot of air time, as has (yay!) Marcy.
Obstruction: apply directly to the forehead.
trifecta @ 28
From The Gavel
This really sounds like they are setting the table. Good, I’m hungry!
snowbird42 @ 84
i love democracy now! - try to listen every day, it’s the best way to stay informed…. and i love that amy goodman gave marcy enough time and didn’t rush her.
The interesting thing is, that for much less provocation in the late ’60’s early 70’s, there were crowds in the streets and gas in the air. I can still smell the gas.
you guys are incredible.
you keep saying we need to take action, make changes, do something, blah, blah.
what are you doing? sitting in front of a computer monitor FOR MONTH AFTER MONTH. Hyperventilating about… what? The war? No! Something else with smashingly serious consequences? NO! You’re fixated instead on some legal technicality of a court case. As if some prosecutor was magically going to do what the electorate is unwilling or unable to do - get rid of the Bush Crime Family.
One would have hoped that all the wasted cyber ink over ‘will Fitz indict Rover’ might have slowed you down from acting like the Fitz deal was the only thing in town. But no! Here you all are months later still fuming over a lawsuit that anyone could have predicted was going to end in a pardon from the get go.
Of course the right is laughing today. Of course the Bushites will be emboldened by this. Once again, they’ve demonstrated themselves cunning, fearless and calculating, while the left is well calling the White House Hotline where the plug has already been pulled.
oh yeah, you only look ridiculous with this meme about ‘obstruction of justice.’ What Bush did was within his constitutional authority. It might have been evil or morally bankrupt, but unless the founding fathers wrote an ‘intent’ qualification into the pardon/communtation powers with invisible ink, what he did isn’t obstruction of justice, at least not in the legal sense, which is how you’re using it.
the whole Plame outting was small potatoes compared to what the BCF has been doing. Utterly small potatoes. Yet here you all are still fixated on it. All puffed up and angry.
While Bush and his fans are laughing. At you and people like you.
that outta be a sign that the Plame fixation has been a loser from the start
snowbird42 @ 85
Here’s a link to the streaming page of today’s show. Amy Gooodman’s interview with Marcy Wheeler starts at 15′10″.
GSD @ 79
I hear what you are telling us.
The trolls have arrived.
(Not asking for cleanup yet. Later, maybe.)
Elliott @ 76
I got the impression yesterday that they only keep the line open and staffed during “normal” business hours. I called yesterday as soon as the info came out about the commutation and the message was that the hours were 9AM to 5PM EDT so they may even have left the line open a little longer than usual today.
But that’s why I started calling at 9:01AM EDt this morning.
don’t feed!
tyvm
:-)
Cal Thomas is a nut case.
Plame really isn’t the point. The right to expect honesty and integrity from our elected officials is the point. That should be remembered, because unless we do, it will never happen.
New GOP talking point: Bush commuted Scooter’s sentence to please his base.
Tuned into Tucker hoping Shuster was hosting but the idiot son of the a**hole was back on the job. While I was setting a timer to catch KO, Buchanan said that the commutation had nothing to do with pleasing the base and everything to do with pleasing Libby’s supporters. Tucker moves on to a new topic instantly. No surprise there, I am glad to hear he has lost his 6pm show.
Schuster just annihilated Tucker.
redink @ 90
“oh yeah, you only look ridiculous with this meme about ‘obstruction of justice.’ What Bush did was within his constitutional authority. It might have been evil or morally bankrupt, but unless the founding fathers wrote an ‘intent’ qualification into the pardon/communtation powers with invisible ink, what he did isn’t obstruction of justice, at least not in the legal sense, which is how you’re using it.”
May-be..May-be not..
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/.....p;page=683
Obstruction of justice - so easy, a caveman can understand it. :)
Obstruction of justice - so easy, a troll can understand it. :)
Tucker Carlson on MSNBC gave extensive, very pro-Libby, pro-Bush coverage to the Libby commutation tonight. Did I miss his disclaimer that his father is the head of Libby’s legal defense fund? Or, as usual, did he just fail to mention it? I think it was the latter.
Along the lines of ‘Bush did this to placate his base’ meme, by all(rational) accounts Bush’s actions were/are reckless.
It’s not a long jouney to connect the dots that Bush would act in a similar reckless fashion and attack Iran. No matter how damaged Bush is politically he still wields enourmous power as President. His willingness to flangrantly dismiss the outcome of the judicial process reasonably begs the question, what other acts is he willing to commit to satisfy a narrow brand of radicals that still support him?
neurophius @ 104