Tomorrow is three years since George Bush pronounced:
“There are some that feel like if they attack us that we may decide to leave prematurely. They don’t understand what they are talking about if that is the case. Let me finish. There are some who feel like the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is, bring ‘em on.”
I’m sure we’ll be talking a lot about the insanity of George’s willingness to play provocateur – so long as he is not in the line of fire. But the opening of that statement is also important – what did George mean by “prematurely?”
The youtube above – The Bases are Loaded – by Dahr Jamail and Chalmers Johnson – with Gary Hart, Raed Jarrar and more – suggests one answer as it reports on the really big “surge” in Iraq – the “surge” in construction.
What are we building? Despite the occasional feel-good reports on TV, it’s not homes, schools, power plants, water treatment plants, hospitals, or any other structures that the Iraqi people need since our invasion and occupation have destroyed their infrastructure. Instead, we’re building mega-bases – a development that does not suggest George and friends (including his buddy Joe Lieberman who is so happy with all the progress in Iraq plan to leave anytime soon.
Given the number of candidates – Republican and Democratic – who support leaving “residual troops” in Iraq – it’s nice to know they’ll have all the comforts of home – and so conveniently located to the major oil pipelines, too!
In contrast to life on the big bases, the people of Iraq continue to live under siege conditions:
On May 21 U.S. and Iraqi forces imposed a security crackdown on the city following continuing attacks. Local non-governmental organisations such as the Iraqi Aid Association (IAA) have told reporters that the U.S. military is not allowing them access to the city.
“We have supplies but it is impossible to reach the families. They are afraid to leave their homes to look for food, and children are getting sick with diarrhoea caused by the dirty water they are drinking,” IAA spokesman Fatah Ahmed told reporters. “We have information that pregnant women are delivering their babies at home as the curfew is preventing them from reaching hospital.”
Medical services are inaccessible to most because the hospital is located on the other side of the Euphrates River from the rest of the city. Extra security checkpoints have severely hampered movement within the city, and most businesses have closed. A year ago the local police cut mobile phone services.
The curfew is also restricting residents’ ability to go out and find much needed supplies in the markets. Residents told IPS that there is on average only two hours electricity in 24 hours.
Maybe those mega bases have a few spare generators they could share? I’m sure Joe and George would be happy to help with the delivery. Bring ‘em on … indeed.
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A zed?
zed?
must be!
See? Even us lurkers get lucky once in a while!
Bring it on GOP! Now! You want to bounce? I’m here. Let’s do it!
Republicans! I want to radically deal with you.
Posted today, a slice of life from Baghdad:
Inside Iraq
Michael Moore is bringing it ON now. Sicko is great.
I hope enough people see it that the debate is reframed.
Meanwhile, I am sure that LowJoe is right about how the progress in Iraq is going, if that means permanent infrastructure for the occupation.
While most (except Richardson) D candidates have said something about “residual forces”, that doesn’t necessarily mean keep the bases and the 140 acre embassy. It could mean repositioning to the borders to block others moving in. A few days ago TPM was asking for questions to ask candidates (Josh hopes to get interviews with all of them). I sent in questions about the bases and the embassy. Too much vague talk from the front 3.
They just want the land, the oil, and the strategic position to keep on going and expand. Screw the people..that’s just “human debris”, put them somewhere, in tents on land reserved for them.
Sound familiar?
Laura Doty @ 7
link doesn’t work – took me to a 404
Oh well…I shall be really snarky. These are the same people bragging about Katrina reconstruction. Ask Orleanians about broken promises.
Perhaps Republicans AND Democrats who want to maintain “residual” (whatever ‘residual’ means) troops in Iraq should re-locate to the Green Zone. That way they could get a better ‘feel’ for the situation. I’m beginning to feel somewhat radical.
Picking up on the last thread, naming what is happening in Iraq as an Occupation would be a powerful thing. This wasn’t ever a war. It was an invasion, with a planned occupation. Imagine if such language were employed daily.
Imagine, too, if people spoke of invading– and occupying– Iran.
A few more people would wake up and smell the fascism.
Of course, as the news stories pointed out a couple of months ago, most of the civilian (so-called) successful construction jobs turned out to be about as far from being successful as can be. Cheap, sh*tty concrete that was mostly sand, falling down, unsafe for occupancy. IN other words, a typical BushCo clusterf*ck operation.
The only thing successful about the construction jobs done for civilians was the contractor’s ability to rip-off the US taxpayer.
Looks like Laura’s link is fixed now … and the Inside Iraq blog is always worth reading.
Gordon – with candidates like HRC talking about 50,000 troops left in country … it’s a worrisome thing. And as Dahr says in the video – he can’t imagine them turning over the keys to these mega bases to the Iraqis.
I can’t encourage folks enough to watch the video … it’s full of important and good information.
The chaos and destruction is not incompetence. Bush and Cheney have accomplished exactly what they set out to do. The embassy and basebuilding will not stop, and no they do not give a rat’s ass about anything else. That should be obvious to all by now.
The thing to watch is american oil companies getting contracts in Iraq- once that happens- we ain’t leavin- we gotta protect “OUR” oil.
Clusterfuck will try to force this to happen before he leaves office. The oil companies will push for it- but they want guarantees that we are willing to kill Iraqis to protect their investment in “our” oil.
OT-to the max, but this won’t HOLD till later.
http://www.kpig.com
Shit kickin authentc REAL music, on real stringed instruments, americana and blue and new grass style, LOTS of great dobro work, old timey, and even some comedy tossed in.
It’s Yer Cuzzin Al, 30 years on the air.
They hafta cut to spots so they insert wierd stuff sometimes, but, hold that dial, it always comes back to the finest of real music, with real people playin it.
Larue now returns All Pups back to The Lake On Fire . . ;-)
dakine01 @ 15
Well first we ripped off the Iraqis by using a lot of that embargoed oil money to pay for “reconstruction”.
The rest we tossed around like footballs. Who the eff knows where it ended up.
RW Cole – the much vaunted first version of the “supplemental” included a benchmark requiring adoption of the HydroCarbon law which was designed to give Big Oil a big role.
OK Kiddo … the Green Zone was hit by 7 mortars last night. I’ve heard they’re no longer able to use the pool on a regular basis.
So sorry, that’s 6pm to 9pm, Left Coast Zoned.
Sigh . . . DOH! Cue the fiddler, run n get the dobro a dram!
Siun @ 20
It is getting really scary, because the “minister” fleeing the Iraqi law, is holed-up in the Green Zone. Maliki is pissed and the parliament is trying to step down. I posted on this earlier today, if anybody wants links, I’ll go find them.
suin
Yeah I know- and the Iraqi Parliament has done domething on the oil issue- but I’m not sure what.
Siun @ 16
It’ll be awhile before the Iraqis can afford to buy anything that can use those runways. But the US is much better at destroying than building. I expect they’d just blast them all back into lumpy sand. Hey, it’s not their money. It’s ours (and the Iraqis).
“the Green Zone was hit by 7 mortars last night. I’ve heard they’re no longer able to use the pool on a regular basis.”
Oh dear. What’s the world coming to? What’s next. No martinis? ;0)
I think that the Parliament is going to allow each region of Iraq to sign it’s own contracts. Our good buds the Kurds say they want to be first to sign a contract with Exxon Mobil.
The Kurd’s good friends- the Turks- want to be the first to kick the holy hell out of the Kurds
Iraq “gold rush”:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/mon…..raq101.xml
I wouldn’t get too comfortable with those new bases.
Anything that can be built can be blown up. I’d bet the plans for each place has been studied intensively by the Iraqi with that very thought in mind.
In fact, until recently the design plans for this new embasy were on the web.
i think i heard somewhere that instead of signing the oil law BushCo wants, they renewed the oil contract with China. Those wily chinese! going in and doing a trade agreement!
Iraq Minister refuge in Green Zone:
http://www.mercurynews.com/nationworld/ci_6252009
Somebody call for a martini?
If ya want to know how big a lie Bush was telling when he said that the strategy was “when they stand up, we stand down”- consider that the Iraqis are not to be allowed to have armour, artillery, or airpower (other than a few transports and helicopters.) That’s the part of the plan that protects Israel. Iraq can’t invade anyone or even defend itself. This is all quite deliberate.
I was against this war from mid-August 1990 on. After the current invasion, one of the first things I heard which made me say “These fuckers are total idiots,” was when we started bringing in workers from outside Iraq to do work which would have paid tens of thousands of Iraqis. That, and firing the Iraqi Army’s NCOs and company grade offices, and not securing the weapon depots, and…….
Twisted Martini @ 31
Only…if I may indulge of the olive :}
Siunshine! Great post.. I watched the video recently.. a must see when thinking about an exit strategy. It sure looks like the fewer numbers of bases and their positions have at least some consideration of leaving in mind, imo.
Should we send CNN and MSNBC an email telling them the green zone was hit by seven mortars last night?
I have strong New Orleans ties, and I do think it is criminal, outrageous that these guys cannot fix a NO levy while spending a billion $$ on an embassy that is quite likely to be hit by a car bomb before its formal opening. Last week, I had a big, serious public cry about what has happened to the country I have known. May be time for another.
The last I heard on the oil issue is that any lawmakers foolish enough to give away Iraq’s oil to foreign investors is likely to be assassinated, quickly. They realize that they need foreign investment, but the huge giveaways that Bush wants are a deal killer.
There’s got to be some sleight of hand when the oil deal is done. Iraqis have thought all along that Boosh invaded em for their oil- so he’s got to hide it- it’s not clear exactly how he plans to do that.
Give me some good links that debunk the flypaper theory will ya? I was going at it with my brothers and of course when I start to get fired up they dismiss me by saying I subscribe to conspiracy theories.
Given the ability of the Iraqi resistance so far to shut down every avenue of escape from Iraq for US forces except the road to Kuwait … these bases will become fortresses under continuous seige if we attempt to keep residual forces. Still, requiring forces at the key pipeline locations to control oil reserves is the game and I suspect Bush – and fear whoever follows him – will think the cost is worth it.
Twisted Martini @ 32
Have to say the thing I like best about a martini, is the gin soaked Spanish olives (and I did say gin). I could eat ‘em ’til I pass out. If truth we’re told, I’m a tequila (Classico) man. But the sweet thing (Lahoma), well… she likes martinis. Low on the vermouth, heavy on the vodka. Chilled, out of the freezer. No olives please. ;0)
Iraqi forces have nothin but pickup trucks and AK47s- plus a few mortar and RPG rounds. I don’t think they’re gonna go toe to toe with the US military– if they tried to attack the permanent bases they’d be wiped out in hours by air attacks.
They’d need tanks and ground to air missles to have a prayer.
The attempt to control the oil is well understood by the Iraqis … see the interview in the video with Nadia Keilani in particular.
Eureka – it astonishes me that CNN, et al don’t even check the reports from the English language versions of reliable Iraqi news sites. Then again, they might notice what’s really going on…
What do they mean by South Asians? Sounds so Orwellian.
Ed*ard Teller @ 33
And what? Don’t leave us hanging like that! /wink/
ah but RWC – we’re selling a large number of tanks to the Green Zone government now … wonder if they will manage to keep control of them?
and btw, China has written off most of the Iraqi debt they held … and has been having very friendly discussions with the Green Zone government.
So oil IS what it’s about? If so, next stop Iran?
I’ve thought that, too, except, there’s no country that’s safe now, with climate change. And it’s our mess to deal with.
What haunts me day and night is how the people of Iraq are suffering, and how effectively–in the main–their voices/experiences are being blocked in the U.S. In this era of global communication, affecting not to know about the torture of innocents, of the murders of teenagers, of the daily deprivation and harrow is unacceptable. I picture a day when not only Iraqis, but our children can justifiably ask each one of us “where were you?”
Dahr Jamail! Here’s his web site. He came up to Alaska a couple of years ago, and I missed him. Next time.
RWC – a very good resource on oil legislation is the Norwegian historian, Reidar Visser at http://historiae.org/index.asp. If you don’t know his work, you might find it useful.
Siun @ 41
Today, I am sorry I can’t link to it, a reporter (very deliberately I thought) asked a pentagon guy (military), why they were focusing on clearing the IED dangers from the road leading south out of Baghdad. He blew it off and cited other areas of preoccupation of attention surrounding Baghdad, but I go the distinct feeling that they are
“prepping” the road to Kuwait. Just my two cents. It was on the teevee. MSNBC or CNN, but I’m not sure which.
Thanks ET – The description of conditions in Fallujah is from Dahr’s site – and folks really should sign up for his email updates – they are very valuable.
He’ll also have a book coming out this Fall.
One word: Chalabi
Laura Doty @ 14
That’s what TeddySanFran has been saying for a while now. I agree with both of you.
Speaking of Lieberman and Iraq, I thought Booman brought up a good point!
“Since Lieberman is intent on lying to you, I’ll tell you the truth.
Organizations like al-Qaeda are openly hostile to BOTH Iran and the current Iraqi government. They don’t just hate the Iraqi government because they cooperate with Americans. They hate it because it is dominated by Shi’ites and is too friendly with Iran.
If Iran’s influence is the primary concern for this country and our Arab allies, then we should join al-Qaeda in opposing the current government in Baghdad. But Iran’s influence in not our primary concern. We decided, quite willingly, to give Shi’ites more power and influence when we agreed to let Iraqis have elections. If that was a mistake, then Lieberman should say so.
There is no prospect of both Iran and al-Qaeda taking over Iraq. It’s one or the other or neither, but not both. And one more point…
The Sunni Arabs of Iraq do not like al-Qaeda even though al-Qaeda is a Sunni Arab organization. Why? Well, al-Qaeda isn’t very likeable, frankly. They’re no fun. They have screwed up religious beliefs, they terrorize and murder people, and they get upset if you have a beer. Iraqis are fairly secular when it comes to people getting all up in their grill about their morals. So, once America leaves Iraq, the Iraqis will kill every al-Qaeda member they can locate. If we wan’t to destroy al-Qaeda in Iraq we should leave it to the Sunni Arabs to do it.
But Lieberman doesn’t want you to know that.”
LS – they are having a lot of trouble using that road (the only way out) now … that’s the cause of the problems with supplies getting in, the move to use more MREs instead of real meals, etc.
The quickest way to say it is … we have already lost the war in Iraq, now the only question is how bad the exit will be when we finally notice.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
Fetch me my Sabatier’s and a snifter of Louis XIII, I’ll fend with these infidels.
(cue Gary Owen)
Siun @ 51
Link does not work. However, the Norwegians already have a contract for drilling in the Kurdish region of Iraq, since 2005. It ticked off the US, and they retaliated by putting Norway on the Terror List (SEC). They want it all for Exxon, Chevron, etc. They put Norway on the terror list, because they are doing business with Iran and Cuba, and they are not part of EU. Norway has extensive oil reserves off the coast in the North Sea. Tantalizing to both the US and Russia no doubt, with whom they have recently begun to do business with.
siun
Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out!
I had no idea that we have 737 permanent bases around the world. “Known” bases.
Siun @ 58
That is what is freaking me out and them I guess!
CTuttle @ 56 quoting Booman: “If that was a mistake, then Lieberman should say so.” HAHAHAHAHAHA! Christy will be posting pictures of pig-birds before that will happen.
Lieberman? The belief here is that Lieberman should be forced to register as an agent working for a foreign government.
To leave prematurely = before all their oil is signed over to US and UK controlled companies.
When people in Congress talk about the Iraqi government not cooperating, this is what they are talking about.
We will be there to burn and destroy and kill and threaten and wreck hospitals and target professionals and bomb houses of worship until their government agrees to give up their oil. Nice country ya got there. Would be a shame if something were to happen to it. Oh, you won’t give us the oil? Well too bad then, so sorry.
Ahmed Abdel Hadi Chalabi,1 (Arabic: أحمد الجلبي ‘Ahmad al-Jalabī) (born October 30, 1944) was interim oil minister in Iraq[1] in April-May 2005 and December-January 2006 and deputy prime minister from May 2005 until May 2006. Chalabi failed to win a seat in parliament in the December 2005 elections, and when the new Iraqi cabinet was announced in May 2006, he was not awarded a post. Once dubbed the “George Washington of Iraq” by American neoconservatives, he has fallen out of favor and is currently under investigation by several U.S. government sources. He is also wanted for massive bank fraud in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. However they dropped the charges after he became a member of Iraqs government in 2005.
LS @ 23
I missed it LS. But I’m still at comment 23 so maybe it’s here.
Outstanding video, siun. A real eye-opener.
Siun @ 58
Best case: They politely show us the door! Worst case: American Embassy, Saigon, ‘75!!! 8-(
I drew a comparison between Bush’s “Bring ‘em on” statement and John Paul Jones’ statement “I have not yet begun to fight.” The really serious, crucial difference is that John Paul Jones was on the main deck of the Bon Homme Richard! He was not sitting comfortably in an air-conditioned office many thousands of miles away from the front!
BIG, big difference!!!
LS @ 58
What?? You mean as in “beware XC skiers wearing backpacks”??
My God. If the MSM would do their job, the overpopulation problem would be over. 2/3 of the world would die laughing!
We not only need to get the oil “signed over” we need to protect against a revolution and nationalization. We need to CONTROL Iraq.
American Indians have something in common with Iraqis.
And the innocents, Sunni and Shiite alike? What will happen to them when the hate-for-all begins?
Who will stand up for peace and mediation? Who will the diplomats be? Hand-wringing and finger-pointing won’t absolve any of us from our share of this fiasco. If we don’t have a government that works, then we need some other means of reaching out.
rwcole @ 71
Uh, no. We need to leave.
GordonM @ 70
Seriously, it is absurd.
CTuttle @ 67
And American Embassy Saigon, ‘75 is the visual that allows the wing-nut wurlitzer to spout that Dems/Congress/Libruls lost the war. Even though all but about 200 troops on embassy duty had left the country two plus years before. Because the Congress had stopped the funding of the South Vietnamese gov’t, it was all the fault of the DFH, antiwar type libruls.
We will never ‘control’ Iraq without controlling Iran.
How much per gallon do the Europeans pay for gasoline?
Twisted Martini @ 32
I’ll buy a round for everyone who watched that video, TM.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 72
True, White men never realize the consequences of their misbegotten ways!!! ;-)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 64
which ones?
dakine01 @ 76
There is no doubt in my mind that the military is trying to “dissolve” away the troops this time. Wake one day, and oh, they’re gone…hmmmm….This is the Bush Neocon Oil war, no one can change that. On the otherhand, some bozo will be left behind to run the “Embassy”. Good luck…Bozo.
Loo Hoo. @ 79
Thanks LooHoo, that’s mighty generous. I watched it a few days ago. It is quite stunning and well worth the time. Make mine a chocolate martini!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
More than we do.
Ed*ard Teller @ 81
Joe and Hadasa… nevermind.
GordonM @ 70
Yikes, that’s me. The Norwegian part and the skiing part. I hate looking over my shoulder when I’m out skiing!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 77
Brilliant.
Two more US KIA’s today. In looking at the stats, IED’s are the major form of attack, however, it caught my eye that more of these attacks are combined with small arms fire. If that is so, then one interpretation is that the “Insurgents” are getting more confident. They are blowing the IED and hanging around to shoot. If my WAG holds up, I don’t think it is a good sign for the surge.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12452503/
LS @ 82
I volunteer L. Paul Bremer, with Wolfie and Rummy as aide de camps!!!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 76
How about we just leave them the fuck alone. that’s what the problem has always been. We did not like Iran’s democratically elected gov in 1953, so we put the Shah in power. That got us the ayatollahs. We overthrew Iraq’s gov to put Saddam in. That got us the mess we’re in now. You’d think we’d learn, but fuck no, let’s control Iran, so we can control Iraq??
dakine01 @ 75
Yup. Although it doesn’t go past 65 Triumph Forsaken: The Vietnam War, 1954-1965 by Mark Moyar makes the case. The book claims that Diem was a wise and effective leader, that Halberstam and Sheehan were vile, lying traitors, that LBJ was insufficiently forceful and that the Domino Theory was correct. It got some disgustingly good reviews.
CTuttle @ 90
It would never do to have them go without Cambone.
Steve – good eyes!
I’d like to honor and acknowledge the links, and the theme, of this post by Siun . . given my OT stuff about killer music . . . having read the thread and the comments . . .
Yep, what the hell are we BUILDING in there (Tom Waits) . . . it surely is NOT doing the Iraqi’s a bit of good, nor is it helping the kharma quotient we so severly destroyed for why we DID go in there.
Nice post.
greenwarrior @ 93
Or, Perle… ;-)
Corrected link to Historiae:
Historiae
What haunts me day and night is how the people of Iraq are suffering, and how effectively–in the main–their voices/experiences are being blocked in the U.S. In this era of global communication, affecting not to know about the torture of innocents, of the murders of teenagers, of the daily deprivation and harrow is unacceptable. I picture a day when not only Iraqis, but our children can justifiably ask each one of us “where were you?”–Laura @49–
Remember that horrible story from last summer? I don’t think it’s ever been proven, but still a nightmare of a thought.
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/…..s-of-iraq/
LS @ 81
That’s what always got me about Bush’s line about timetables (they’ll jes wait us out). As if the Iraqis won’t notice 150,000 troops and a whole lot of hardware heading for the exit. Or has General Dynamics gotten that transporter working?
Siun @ 16
… nodding — watching the video now….
Thanks, Siun. Can I suggest that we find another metric for the mega-embassy? I have no idea how big the Vatican is, and it means nothing to me when I hear that the US embassy is bigger than the Vatican.
And so… As I leave you tonight, this for you, dear, sweet Laura and for that funny little weenie you call a husband… enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMjEQWDkWsA
The sources I talk to say the helicopters and embassy picture will not work in Iraq … it’s going to be a long slog out that road to Kuwait.
Siun @ 16
msauna @ 17
Yeah, we’ll be leaving when the oil runs out.
Till then, it’s full integration and done OUR way.
Genocide if they don’t wanna play by our rules.
Some we kill, some we let them kill each other off. Gaming the system . . .
TeddySanFran @ 100
The Vatican is 108.7 acres.
Thanks Larue – hope you’ll stop by often. We usually discuss Iraq or related subjects here on Sunday nights and I try to pull from non-MSM sources so we get a glimpse of the conditions on the ground.
GordonM @ 99
Beam them up, General Petreaus.
Thank you Loo Hoo, for responding. I was beginning to wonder if I was alone in this wilderness.
See McClatchy news for more information regarding torture. A friend of mine in Iraq has told me it’s horrific. People with nailed to the floor, their bones broken by heavy tanks of propane, tortured with electric drills and THEN killed. When we read that people have been bound and shot, with signs of torture, THAT’s what they’re talking about.
Last week, Sunni teenagers were abducted from their school while taking a final exam as were some of their Sunni teachers. (People with ID cards proving they were Shiite were left alone). No word since about what’s happened. I think we can guess.
Siun @ 102
They will have to “vanish”.
Oh, the status quo. Firepups, we need to unite! Lets impeach the Cheney/Bush tandem, install Pelosi during the interim and begin finding something to replace oil. I saw a piece on NBC, Channel 3 WKYC in Cleveland, about a guy looking for a cure for cancer that discovered how to produce hot flame using salt water. Remarkable! I have faith that we can achieve anything we set our minds to. The problem is that the status quo is so entrenched we’ve stopped believing in ourselves. Let’s take one thing at a time, but the first step should be to change our leadership and do it now. Who among the the candidates for 08 think we need permanent bases in Iraq? That type of thinking is not leadership!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
About twice as much as we do. Here’s way too much data. Back in the 90s they paid almost 4x as much. And here’s a table of current ratios (to the world average) for most countries. With the most expensive country, Uruguay, at 1, we’re ranked 102.
How about we just leave them the fuck alone.
Lawdy, I’m so much in agreement! (I must need to eat more fish or something, I’m really getting testy about things of late … or maybe it’s the monumental waste of time and resources when so much doable stuff needs doing.)
Thanks for the video, Siun, it was very informative.
LS @ 84
$6.00 last summer, plus or minus. Liter, not gallon. That’s the reason they drive those really cool little tiny cars. I went into a dealership to see if I could buy one and ship it over. Our government was not allowing it until this summer. Seen any? I sure haven’t.
Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL) in full tilt.
See: Chilling Stories from the Mahdi Army:
here
Siun @ 102
If they don’t run into the ‘Khartoum Effect’
Funny, had not looked at that post for some time and what was I talkin’ about way back then?
Why….
‘Spineless Dems’ and their failure to confront the BushWhacker.
Guess it really isn’t funny at all.
Laura Doty @ 113
link isn’t good
greenwarrior @ 115
Odd, I just tried it on your comment, and got there…..?
Siun @ 101
I concur, look at the turkey shootout for anyone trying to get from the Green Zone to Baghdad Intl. Airport! I’ve heard numerous stories of that harrowing escapade!!!
newtonusr @ 102
Sure didn’t seem like 108 acres to me. Is there more than the Sistene Chapel and Pope’s museums and San Piedro’s Basilica? Granted that is all huge, especially considering the basements and all of the areas not open to the public, but I doubt all of Rome is 108 acres.
Prolly sum smart folks here 2nite. Mebbe sumbodies could ’splain how giving more weapons and training to a multi-faceted civil war would quell the violence.
Kuz, well, I jis don’ geddit.
OFG @119
What? You mean like mebbe the goal is to let folks fight it out while the rats run away with the cheese?
Laura … there are many dreadful realities in Iraq. I’d recommend reading GorillasGuides on a regular basis. Guides is written by a team of Iraqis and a few friends from Denmark and Ireland who are often in country. The team includes Sunni, Shia and more … Along with the McClatchy reports, it’s a way to understand what is really going on without the lies. As one member of the Guides team tells me often, No one’s hands are clean. But the horrors are not just the torture by thugs – it’s also civilian neighborhoods bombed almost nightly by US air attacks etc. We are being told to notice some horrors which are used to “justify” our continued occupation … but we are not told about much more that might point to the complicity and outright lawlessness of US forces and the US backing of those death squads – read everything you can find on the El Salvador Option.
Well folks, I’ve got to get some work done. I’ve de-lurked in a big way today and it’s been nice to be a part of the lake, instead of sitting on the shore. Thanks.
Oilfieldguy @ 118
Not smart, but if you give a bunch of arms to two warring parties, I guess you must be hoping they will neutralize each other out. Then, you step in, clean up the “mess”, or not, and take what they leave behind.
rwcole @ 18
I’d wager at this point, we will get the PSA agreements at the point of a gun, which is what we went in with.
At this point, we are SO far past the PSA’s not happening, and if they don’t happen there will be other issues . . .
We are in to stay. Period.
Now, the USA General Public, must move this HUGE pendulum the other way . . . that’s not gonna happen from an election . . . not ‘08, not ‘10, not ‘12.
But as AK has suggested, we are SO stretched thin across SO many fronts, our economy is gonna tank flush itself LONG before the Iraqi Oil Issue is resolved in any meaningful terms of production and oil actually flowing and being refined.
Waist Deep In The Big Muddy, And The Big Phool Says To Push On.
USA, to the Texas T . . . gonna be interesting to see how it all plays out . . . . as devicive as this country is now, I see no happy endings in the short term decade or two.
We are the next enduring Britain.
Or the next Rotting Rome, depending on yer historical emphasis.
Laura Doty @ 119
That’s pretty much what I thought.
Sorry, I was thinking square miles instead of acres…
Ed*ard Teller @ 33
Same thing they did in NOLA. Union folks started coming back to rebuild and they were told not to bother. Mexican people were hauled in to do the labor and were sorely mistreated. In both places the aim was to destroy the economy.
Loo Hoo. @ 111
OK, setting the facts straight. Petrol in the EU is a bit above $6 US gallon equivalent. When I was in the UK and France 3 years ago, we paid about $6.23 gallon equivalent (converting from the per liter sale and currency exchange rate of the day) for the two cars we rented.
The cool little cars, which were everywhere in Paris when we were there, are the “SmartCars” (60 mpg around town). A neighbor of mine here in Vegas now has one. They’re selling ‘em here now.
Cars that are to be imported into the US must undergo a lot of expensive certification- but manufacturers are starting to bring in some eurpopean models.
Honda brought in the Fit- GM is starting to bring in some Opel models- and Ford brought in the Focus.
greenwarrior @ 113
Worked for me, I’ll read it later.
And this is for you Karl. “Goodnight and good luck”. You’re gonna need it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMjEQWDkWsA
Siun @121:
Absolutely. I’m positive that there are atrocities all the way around. And I am NOT supporting staying there, nor interested self-serving people who justify occupation on such a basis. But I am ALSO very clear that we cannot be silent about the atrocities that are happening to people. Mortars, kidnappings, torture, not to mention U.S. shelling neighborhoods (which Juan Cole has more than once observed is probably a war crime).
Attention must be paid.
Thanks everyone. G’nite.
LS @ 122
Or, get caught in the Crossfire!!! ;-)
Siun, be sure to wave at mfi for me when you visit him. I think he is the kewlest sumbitch on the net. I just hope he doesn’t cast all Americans in the light of Bush.
a few El Salvador Option links for folks:
BBC from 2005 – very useful overview
Global Research briefing
The Progressive – 2007 perspective
for some perspective on the original crimes in El Salvador – start here:El Salvador – 10th Anniversary memorial
Well we aren’t givin many weapons that are worth a shit. AK47s have a world cost of $50 a copy. Cheap- and the ammo ain’t much either. We aren’t givin away much heavy stuff- cause we know it’d get used against US.
A firepup dropped in this week and said she loves her all electric car. The truck even has a solar panel for recharging. Brand new under 10k…made in China.
OFG – he’ll be very glad to hear you waved!
I will be certain to pass along the greeting when next able – he is in Iraq at the moment.
Du is home on leave and enjoying his and Erdla’s new twins!
Good, BobbyG. And ES.
OFG, have you decided what to do about Bonnie?
Trouble with that car is the 30 mile range.
We need 150 mile range and we’re in business.
Just read that Toyota was planning on putting advanced batteries into the Prius for the 09 model but not is apparently stalling- they aren’t ready for prime time yet (lithium ion). Once they work- and the CEO of Toyota is convinced that they’re almost there- 100 mpg is quite possible.
RWC – I was looking for the english language version of this report but only see the arabic Guides links to in this report:
CTuttle @ 133
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avpn9oWj9lI
Loo Hoo. @ 137
Email will suffer a rewrite. My philosophy is the only thing in the middle of the road is a yellow stripe. I tend to stay out of the granny lane.
Siun- thanks I was looking around and some some other stories about Iraqis getting some tanks- mostly 40 year old Russian tanks- but tanks.
Siun @ 135
What’s ole Negroponte up to these days..
Loo Hoo. @ 130
don’t know why, but it’s not working for me.
Nightall.
*poof*
rwcole @ 134
Granted, but during our mad dash to Baghdad’s oil ministry, we failed to secure any ammo depots or armories, there is plenty of heavy weaponry available! An AK-47 is just as lethal as any other weapon, the real problem is, everyone is toting one!!!
rwcole @ 27
1) The Iraqi Parliment is a piece of paper USA backed. It ain’t worth the sheckels that bought it. It will fall, and morph, constantly.
2) The Kurds will NOT sign a PSA, they may negotiate rates and sign with someone, but NOT at the USA PSA conditional mandates. EVAH!
3) The OTHER area with lots of oil, is gonna go SHIA City, and THEY are not EVEH gonna accept PSA’s . .
Bottom line, we’ll have to nuke Iraq and Iran to get the PSA’s . . . . and destroy the Kurds, too.
Which is why we will let the TURKS do the Kurds, and then, the oil is ours as we nail the Turks. But, never piss off the Turks, as AK has said, with raisen . . . (avec raison).
Ron Paul at a campaign event in Iowa. The crowd of several hundred loves the guy.
You have to wonder whether Clusterfuck thinks it’s in the interest of the war- to keep the war goin. I mean- what if it was all over? The Iraqis might tell us to get our asses out of there and that they would decide what kind of a military to build and what to do with their oil. It could be argued that failure is success as far as GW Clusterfuck is concerned. He has to keep em needin him.
GordonM @ 63
Would you believe…?
;>)
Hey Gang! I see Teddy up above:
Never Doubt
One thing’s for certain. Clusterfuck’s invasion eliminated a potential enemy for Israel. It would take decades for Iraq to ever regain the military might to threaten that country.
LS @ 28
So, who’s gonna IMPOSE these rulings from a paid for Parliment that’s not acknowledged by the people ON THE LAND, where the oil is under?
That article is propoganda . . . and wishful thinking like Mr. Bluebird On My Shoulder.
Pure Goebbels spinalogy. *G*
Hazard @ 29
HAH!!!
The truth that cuts!!! Dang, that’s simple and razor like to the cut!
Nice take, hoss . . . *G*
LS @ 23
1) Which minister are you referring to?
2) Maliki is hosed, being pissed is of no value. He’s a dead man walking, from either Sunni’s, Shia’s or USA agents . . .
3) The Parliment that stepped down is Sunni, and now, some of Iran’s Shia’s under Badr . . . hence his WALK is back on . . .
Malike is a joke, The Parliment is a joke, there IS no government, and the USA spent ALL that money to see it fail so far.
Now, the question, is . . .who’s next up as a figgerhed, in Iraq, with OUR dollars . .
Why, HELLO, Mr. Chalabi!! Again . . sigh . . .
That’s a great video… good to see the truth being told. I have said and I say again. This is how they can keep insisting that the war is going swimmingly. It is. It’s all going just as planned. They’re “staying the course”. This video is the course. Its been the “course” since way before 9/11 and it will continue to be the “course”. It was never, not for one instant, about all the stated “spreading democracy” bullshit.
Success in Iraq = occupation and perpetual war. Always has been. bush said this last week in this article:
“In places like Israel, terrorists have taken innocent human life for years in suicide attacks,” Bush said. “The difference is that Israel is a functioning democracy and it’s not prevented from carrying out its responsibilities. And that’s a good indicator of success that we’re looking for in Iraq.”
Steve @ 88
Steve, I’ve got some eye-opening reading from the frontlines for everyone on that very point, that I stumbled on thanks to the internets, and that helps to show us the difference between the ‘official line’ we are being given by our Pentagon/media and the reality on the streets of Baghdad for our soldiers:
***The Real Story Behind A Pentagon Press Release Announcing American Casualties In Iraq***
First, this sanitized, imprecise press release summary from the Army (aka “Multi-National (uh huh…) Forces – Baghdad Division), issued about a week ago:
Http://www.democraticundergrou…..15;2890954
Now, read carefully (I’ve added no emphasis) through this second, unofficial, on-the-ground account of the same patrol and firefight from a soldier’s blog, to find out who was behind that “small arms fire” that was quickly suppressed by the third American unit arriving on the scene – after the first ‘route clearance patrol’ was hit and disabled and the second ‘quick reaction force’ coming to their aid was hit and blown to bits, resulting in last Saturday’s casualties to more American troops that our Congress is “supportively” keeping on patrol in the streets of Baghdad for publicly-unstated reasons.
This on-the-ground view is from those fighting in the same battalion in Baghdad as the victims (the victims “were all ours“), from the (very informative and perceptive) blog of an American soldier, on his second (extended) tour, now based in a Baghdad FOB:
Http://strypgia.livejournal.com/
Because we occupy a demolished country against its will, sporadic resistance using any available violent means is used against our occupying power. Mostly whenever we try to use or patrol the streets, but increasingly also indirectly aimed at Americans hunkered-down inside their bases.
How many Americans have heard of “Hero Flights” out of Iraq? The Armed Forces on the other end stand at attention and watch that gut-wrenching plane-loading, before every one of those flights takes off from Iraq carrying the bodies of their fallen comrades in arms. Who stands at attention when those flights touch down back here in America? Who notices, or cares, besides the grieving family?
America, for shame.
Four years post-invasion in Baghdad, and still only 2-3 hours of electricity in 108 degree weather by noon, every day – with no predictable schedule, even in the wealthy, relatively prosperous part of Baghdad where the University is. Where’d the billion-dollar contracts (to American firms) to rebuild Iraq’s electrical system go? Would not the removal of our presence “provide the Iraqi citizens a more secure environment” not to mention vastly improve and safeguard the environment of our troops? Time to reverse course not just ‘change course,’ Harry Reid. Ask the Iraqis, Congress: 4 out of 5 say YES, WE want the Americans to LEAVE.
DAMN our Members of Congress and their craven self-absorption and savage disregard for human life not their own.
United States Constitution, Article I, Section 8, Clause 11: Still silently waiting…
As noted above, if keeping the war going is success and other crazy ideas….who is there with the hard data that justified starting this war? Both Oneil and Clarke have been candid that the plan was in place. If the cynical war for oil is the plain truth, rather than the other known lies, and we have ruined our national security, how close are we to treason. Our country has been betrayed; made more at risk in the world; meaningless waste of our citizens and others. Who is in the circle to reveal the depths of the lies. This sort of criminal probe would justify all the subpoenas in the world.
LS @ 31
And, has nothing to do with nothing, certainly NOT the Oil PSA’s . . . he’s NOT the Oil Minister.
Nice linkypoo, and thanks for clearing THAT one up . . .
hate2haggle @ 109
That’s the key question. Where do we go from here with $$ billions of steel and poured concrete? What will a Dem president do in Jan ‘09? Abandon built bases?
Twisted Martini @ 32
Some spook o da world tell me what’s the best Russian Vodka imported to USA? For that matter, any best vodka anywhere.
Me, I like a martooney or three with gin, when I do them.
Whose got the best gin?
I don’t buy or even drink, vodka or gin, except on occasion twice a year maybe, for festin . . . so I don’t know . .
Grey Goose, Absolute
Tanqueray, good Beefeater’s
Bout all I know . . . other n it SHOULD be twice or more distilled to be decent and clean without a headache . . .
Scotch, and whiskey, well, we can talk . . . *G* . . . . top shelf tequila at times . . . .
Nero fiddled, WE will just ‘martooney’ while it all burns down around us . . . civilized, it seems, don’t it? *G*
“More Olives, Please?”
Ed*ard Teller @ 34
Mr Teller, ya don’t need THIS Larue to tell ya, that was NOT idiocy. You KNOW it was part of the plan to destroy the Iraqi’s . . . why would you even allude to it being idiocy, at YOUR level of comprehension and understanding?
We as a people, an EDUCATED people, really need to move beyond stereotypes forced upon the masses, get to the quick of it, and DEAL from there . . . enough of the old jive cliche’s, Mr. Teller . . . . I KNOW you don’t buy into them. Why would you even USE them?
SeamusD @ 38
A voice of reason . . . thanks. *G*
Oklahoma kiddo @ 42
Didn’t Mrs. Peel like hers, the same way?
rwcole @ 43
Nah, that’s now how insurgencies win. N that’s why we CAN’T win in Iraq, or over there, without nukin it all and killin them all . . .
The turbaned VC are as complex and able as Charlie was . . . they can ‘get’ to the bases any way they want . . . *G*
LS @ 52
Now THAT’S ears up attention span!! Very interesting but, I just don’t see us leaving. EVAH. Till the end of the oil runs out . . .
Oklahoma kiddo @ 48
IRAQI oil is what it’s all about . . . Iran is an orange, oil in Iraq, an apple.
Kid, you KNOW these things . . . you ok?
The only thing they have in common is that PNAC wanted to see BOTH toppled and USA installed . . . that went south the minute we deposed Saddam . . . stupid PNAC.
Still, we ain’t leaving Iraq.
Now, I’ve SAID that till I’m BLUE LEFTY in the face.
But, my PREMISE also presuupposes, that we don’t get SLAUGHTERED in Iraq, at some point, lose half the fleet in The Gulf, and limp home on our tails.
Which, like doing Iran, is still on the table depending on who ya talk to.
But, oil is NOT the biggest linky poo tween Iraq and Iran . . . that’s a MUCH deeper and more complicated issue . . . Iran involves it all, the WHOLE MidEAst ball of palm date fronds.
Isreal is the key . . . oil is OUR need, Isreal is our hole card if we need to nuke . . . and, they are our proxy too . . . we own them, but they drive us . . . symbiotic like them worms in a sci fi flick that needs the hosts to stay alive . . .
LS @ 54
The Next One. There can be, only, one. He’s the. NEXT. One. He will fail, too. He’ll be kilt early on by some opposition force . . . maybe after selling out someone to the Chinese or the Russians.
He could EASILY be a proxy for them, as much as USA . . . but USA will fall to him, again. Foolishly.
More and more it would seem the model the USA is using in Iraq is the Israeli WestBank/Gaza prototype. It seems more and more likely indeed the Americans would rather accept and will accept a very dysfunctional,broken apart and debased Iraqi civilian society rife with death dealing,sectarian/political bloodfeuds and bottomless despair of little hope ever. An Iraq of broken down schools,hospitals and public shared services such as water and sewage provision to electricity. Where becoming a refugee is frightfully easy and losing ones way in society all too common.
The Israelis surely have an interest in Iraq falling down to the same levels of wreck/ruin and failure as the WestBank and Gaza,that,courtesy of Isreali defacto rule, misrule and meddling have attained.
The Americans will have their super-bases,the embassy citadel in Baghdad and from those power centers will maintain a fierce suppression on Iraqi society,politics and economic policies. These then will also provide for full intimidation of Iran and South/West Asia via American meddling,militarism and hegemony.
Nothing like a few F-16 fighter jets bombing,strafing and firing off missiles to show who’s the boss. Nothing like simply killing people or “disappearing them” to keep control and to sabotage any possibles or outcomes you do not want or will not condone.
Just ask Israel.
It really would be a more honest admission for the Americans to simply declare they will not give up Iraq(or more on point–Iraq’s oil) now or anytime soon(the 50 year idea?) and the sooner the Iraqis get clear on that the better.Just as it would be quite honest for the Israelis to simply state they will not allow or permit a truly independent,sovereign Arab Palestine. Never.Ever.
Look for a corrupt “Iraqi Authority” that puts an “Iraqi face” on an American run/ruled Iraq.
This is what shock and awe was about.
Still is about.
The Iraqi people would do well to study up on how Israel figuratively/literally bulldozed the Palestinian Arabs into subjugation/expungement.
The Americans very likely are using that model for what they intend to do through either a three way split-apart Iraq or Sunni/Shia strife-torn Iraq.
It is very likely also the two “national WashDC political parties” are pretty much on the same page regarding this outcome.
See WashDC DEMS/GOPers “we can’t leave because it would get much worse” lines of logic.
And where are the DC DEMS on those superbases and embassy citadel? Seems to be little or no talk about them coming from the DC DEMS. Either as of late or over the past 4 years.
American Imperialism and Corporatism will likely win and return to the WH no matter which “DC party” takes the Oval Office in November 2008.
CTuttle @ 56
Phreakin Bravo!!! Well said. I know these things, yet lack the ability and experience to put it together and TELL it to others, othen than with instincts . . . sure appreciate it when those who have BEEN there, and done that, come out and clarify it.
Bravo.
CTuttle @ 68
Way too narrow a range hoss . . .
Worst case, we stay there.
Worst case, we get slaughtered staying there, or coming out AFTER being slaughtered. Cuz we nuked someone . . . one nuke, and we are slaughtered in the region . . . and Isreal has us by the balls, and if THEY blink and launch, we are SO hosed . . . and so is the planet . .
Only, no one wants to TALK about that in here . . wonder why?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 72
Who’s gonna be the Iraqi’s Custer?
(cue Gary Owen)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 72
Ok, I’ll admit it, the Merlot and the BBQ Fat kicked in . . . I’m dyin here, n yer killin me . . *G*G* Don’t ever stop. *G*
Laura Doty @ 73
Laura, we CREATED the hate and destruction.
There will be NO peace, no mediation.
We either subdue them, or they kill the shit outta us and drive us home.
So, the worst case scenerio will apply.
Time to adapt to the worst, the best is laughable to consider, and reality dictates the bad guys are in charge . . have you slept the past 3 decades since Newt’s Contract On America and didnt’ see this coming?
Or, are you new to history? These are dark times. Very little hope . . . unless the american people, and what’s left in Oversight Comittee’s, can turn it around . . but it’s 30 years or more of pure anti Republic . . . top to bottom.
Hard to find faith in humans, given what they’ve done to us, and what we’ve enabled, while we were enjoying the American Pie they fed us . . .
Eureka Springs @ 74
‘Splain to me, how you see that ever happening.
Please.
We KNOW we need to leave, problem is we are NOT leaving . . . so, please explain ÅNY sense of hope or actual scenerio wherby we Do leave, other n we get our asses slaughtered completely.
Cuz we ain’t leaving.
Once the progressives ACCEPT that we ARE NOT LEAVING, and that we are OUTNUMBERED in NOT LEAVING, both Pub’s and Dem’s, cuz Big Bro OWNS OUR LIVES, then we can begin to strategize HOW to turn things around.
Until then, it’s a fantasy too many Pups in this lake are dreaming of.
Harumph.
Nope. Haven’t been asleep. Yes, have been paying attention. And being an activist for years. Don’t need your sarcasm.
And I know that cynicism ain’t a solution.
Here it comes. The only way to get them low polls up… a new war. This story is just propaganda to get us behind invading Poland… I mean Iran.
“The Americans say he, along with the Iraqi militia commanders he worked with, has admitted working with Iran’s elite Quds Force special operations unit.”
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/me…llah/ index.html
House of Bush, House of Saud @ 162
Hillary has already stated that there will need to be a long term presense of some kind.
Larue … I know we are in complete EPU territory here but may I suggest you tone it down a bit. The community of firepups includes a lot of folks who have a very solid understanding of what is going on … and some of your comments end up missing that fact.
bring it on – was just ruminating on that CNN idiocy with friends … complete bs but useful if they want to help hype war with Iran, that’s for sure.
Perhaps Mr Ware – who at times is quite competent – should learn a bit about Hizbollah.
The Bases… we did the same thing in Vietnam with 100% American mega bases such as Cam Ranh Bay, Phan Rang, Tuy Hoi, Qui Nonh, Phu Cat and others. All were built by a company called RMK BRJ (Halliburton). The master plans for these bases was much the same as the bases described in this video. As someone who lived the Vietnam experience at 2 of those facilities I can say that the barracks, the exchanges, and other comforts of home were as described in this video. We just didn’t have the air conditioned living quarters. The big difference in my opinion is that Vietnam was stategically important to us in the Cold War, and in the case of Iraq the need is both strategic and control of the oil.
We left the Vietnam bases behind when the war ended, and we will have have to do it again in Iraq because the Iraqis will eventually ask us to leave, and the people of our country will want us to leave as well.
This video is important and should have the widest distribution possible. Thanks for posting it.
shootthatarrow … the parallels between Israeli tactics and what US forces are doing in Iraq are clear. Sy Hersh has reported that we’ve had Israeli advisors in Iraq (inc at Abu Ghraib) and overall the tactics employed have been stunningly similar.
I suspect – and I will have to ask my sources – that the big difference is that the Iraqi people are more capable of fighting back – recent military leadership and experience, access to arms, more room to maneuver, etc.
wvblueguy – thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge.