Matt Stoller (via email) points to an interesting article by Danah Boyd on class and the use of MySpace and Facebook, which had this interesting observation:
A month ago, the military banned MySpace but not Facebook. This was a very interesting move because the division in the military reflects the division in high schools. Soldiers are on MySpace; officers are on Facebook. Facebook is extremely popular in the military, but it’s not the SNS of choice for 18-year old soldiers, a group that is primarily from poorer, less educated communities. They are using MySpace. The officers, many of whom have already received college training, are using Facebook. The military ban appears to replicate the class divisions that exist throughout the military. I can’t help but wonder if the reason for this goes beyond the purported concerns that those in the military are leaking information or spending too much time online or soaking up too much bandwidth with their MySpace usage.
MySpace is the primary way that young soldiers communicate with their peers. When I first started tracking soldiers’ MySpace profiles, I had to take a long deep breath. Many of them were extremely pro-war, pro-guns, anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, pro-killing, and xenophobic as hell. Over the last year, I’ve watched more and more profiles emerge from soldiers who aren’t quite sure what they are doing in Iraq. I don’t have the data to confirm whether or not a significant shift has occurred but it was one of those observations that just made me think. And then the ban happened. I can’t help but wonder if part of the goal is to cut off communication between current soldiers and the group that the military hopes to recruit. Many young soldiers’ profiles aren’t public so it’s not about making a bad public impression. That said, young soldiers tend to have reasonably large networks because they tend to accept friend requests of anyone that they knew back home which means that they’re connecting to almost everyone from their high school. Many of these familiar strangers write comments supporting them. But what happens if the soldiers start to question why they’re in Iraq? And if this is witnessed by high school students from working class communities who the Army intends to recruit?
With opposition to the war at an all-time high it’s no surprise that there would be attempts to disrupt any public communication of dismay from the military, but it’s an interesting implication of the social networking world. It’s sad that the fabric that could otherwise keep soldiers connected to their communities has to be cut off so Joe Lieberman can continue to perpetuate the delusion that the surge is a raging success, but that is the world we live in.
On the Facebook front, starting in the next few weeks we’re going to be allowing voluntary registration on FDL that will allow you to list your Facebook page such that an icon will appear next to your name when you comment. It’s been an interesting week in the FDL Facebook group where people coalesced to communicate when the toobz were on the fritz and many have enjoyed the ability to put faces to screen names. If you haven’t signed up for a Facebook account or joined the FDL group, we’ve now got over 600 members. It’s free and for the technol-limited there is plenty of help in the comments section for the asking.
(FDL Facebook photo “Mom’s Orchids” by Linda Seaman)
Related posts:
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- “Progressive Block” Strategy: Is It Really Happening?
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zed?
Hello, Pups! xoxoxo, Jane
Yes!
Go Jane!
Jane: Thanks much! I left you a message on Facebook about 50 mins ago.
Interesting Slate article on face book last week.
In Your Face How Facebook could crush MySpace, Yahoo!, and Google.
The MySpace-Facebook class division based on education isn’t that surprising, given that Facebook started as only a college social network (and also opened a little later to high-schoolers before finally opening to the public).
Go JANE! Hope this day finds you feeling well! (I kinda thought you might not e feeling too good a few days ago).
The Army is doing today to MySpace pretty much the same thing they attempted to do back in the ‘Nam days when they tried to ban off-base coffee shops and support centers. Their knee-jerk response, if they can’t control it, is to ban it.
I like that our numbers are getting up to critical mass so that we can do some kind of organizing by localities. Makes it easy to communicate for meet-ups, coffee, local organizing, etc.
I suspect Dana Boyd is right about the class issue.
Here are faces of military spouses, kids and their pet (!!) at an Anchorage demonstration last winter. The dog’s sign reads “Which Bush should I pee on?” Even the pets are against these creeps…
Every time I deal with military personnel – and I do on a weekly basis – there are more signs of discouragement. The discouragement of professionals with lots of pride doing the best they can in a situation getting more dicey for their organizations by the day.
Does the class division explain why MySpace is a catastrophe of aesthetics? I’ve never understood how MySpace can be popular, using it is just such a horrible experience. It assaults the senses in a way that’s almost physically painful.
On a more serious note, what the military has done has always been used to keep the frontline troops from knowing too much or interacting with their peers. The more isolated each unit is, the more easily they can be counted on to follow orders without question. If the troops are able to share too much information about how badly the occupation is going maybe the fear is we’d see something akin to the French army mutinies during World War I.
Re: Jane @ 8:
Latest Facebook feature:
Jane Hamsher @ 8
The organizing aspect is the truly killer component; you could already organize an FDL event in Michigan by going to the MichiganLiberal.com group in Facebook and sending the group a message. MichLib members have a strong affinity with FDL, as evidenced by members like emptywheel, SharonRB, aliasofwestgate and myself, just to name a few. And no maintenance of pain-in-the-ass email distlists on your end, thank the cosmos.
Ed*ard Teller @ 9
I disagree with Boyd about the class component; it does have more to do with origin. One needs only look at the content FDL members have already been posting to their Facebook pages over the last month to realize there is no restriction on expression. What I wonder is whether the military sees MySpace not just as a blog-stand-in, but as a time-leech, much as an employer might see it; there’s so much on the MySpace that is less about networking and more about entertainment that I could see where it might discouraged by employers, including the military. Now that Facebook has been cracked open, it’s a matter of time before it becomes as buried under content.
Ultimately, what is the difference between a blog and a Facebook or MySpace page? The only think I see is an easier communications interface for group interaction; it’s a huge improvement over forum software that can be embedded in blogs.
Isn’t MySpace owned by Murdoch? Overall, I’m not very comfortable with putting that much personal information out there. My employers are well-known local Republicans, for example, and really don’t need to know what my views on BushCo are.
Oh, and by the way, nice job “roping” Marcy into Facebook, Jane.
Heh. Sly.
Rayne @ #12 – good observations about several things. Interesting that you think Facebook will get as cluttery and creepy as MySpace.
PeteCO @ 13
Yes, Murdoch does own MySpace although I saw something a week or so ago about him possibly doing a swap of Myspace for something else, non-social network related
Hi (((Jane)))!
Congrats on completing the chemo!
I’m still leery of Facebook because of the terms of service. I ran across a website that listed board members’ ties to the CIA and DOD, and given that all shared info becomes available to Facebook for almost unlimited use, well….
Re: the military ban on MySpace and limiting info, it’s been very interesting to read the acting Army surgeon general’s testimony at all of the various investigation commissions and task forces since the Walter Reed scandal “officially” broke in the MSM. She is consistently chronicling losing nurse officers at twice the rate of all other Army officers, and that both nurse and medical corps vacancies are running at 10% and are climbing. She is also apparently comfortable in being the messenger for the horrendous state of healthcare services for returning soldiers. I think that the best canary in the coalmine is her take on this part of the war. Rumsfeld never did any forecasting of casualties or healthcare needs. So now all of the requested data that should have been put in place in order to prepared for the healthcare services is being done on the fly. And it’s telling – a 20% broken soldier rate, which means that for every deployment, 20% of all soldiers come back with healthcare problems that make them unfit for duty. This is not a sustainable casualty rate.
Recruitment goals weren’t met this month, and African-Americans are staying away in droves from recruiters.
Eureka Springs @ 5
Thanks for that link, Eureka Springs, I hadn’t seen that article yet.
Sorry, but what a weiner Christopher Beam is; Facebook is not going to crush anybody except competitors in its own space, and that’s still up for grabs for another year or so, until it develops a fully commercialized business model.
Rayne @ 14
Worked out pretty well, didn’t it?
Jane, I know that you must be proud completing your chemo. Last year I sat with my ex while he went through chemo every other week for colon cancer. It’s amazing the courage and the hope that emanated from those receiving treatment. It took him just a few months before he returned to his old self..
Rayne – This is all so new to me but I must say I finished that article with a similar sense as your informed comment.
Jane… Can we create some fun and sorta serious polls on FDL face book page? Would be great to know what the pups say when hidden in a cyber-booth about the D primary votes and other issues, imo.
Facebook question? I think I joined when you first asked but I did not create a page. How do I go back and do that now?
Ed*ard Teller @ 15
Well, it rather depends…if my theory holds up that the real schism between MySpace and Facebook is based now on technological aptitude of the persons drawn to use them (or their point of origin, as in Facebook’s origin), there is far less likely to be technical clutter at Facebook.
Think about the multitude of blogs, hundreds of millions now I think (hell, I run about 10 of my own), and how different they all are. There’s a difference in the kinds of folks who move to different platforms to a degree, based not on economics as much as technical capability. I never understood the appeal of Livespace, for example, another pain-in-the-ass environment in which to work. Some platforms were more successful over the long run simply because they were easy to use by folks of the lowest denomination of tech skills and at the same time could be made to scream by folks with high end skills. Some platforms have limitations based on expense, which is not necessarily a barrier based on economics as much as it is a barrier to those who don’t want to commit (amazing what coughing up even a $35/year charge will do to commitment-phobes).
Ultimately, the nature of Facebook will depend on management’s vision, as much as Google’s appearance and portfolio depends on its management. Will they be able to rein in development enough that they can continue to preserve a Facebook “brand”? We’ll see.
MySpace, on the other hand…[sigh]
JPL – I think you would just need to sign in which you will be prompted to do if you set up an account, then just click on profile at the top of the page and play with settings /enter info etc.. and add me as a friend Giovanni Eureka Springs AR
JPL @ 22
go to Facebook and login. It will take you to “your” Facebook page, that has all the “news” and goings on of your “friends” and groups (like FDL). From there, click on the Profile info at the top and then set up whatever yo want in the various areas about your interests, music likes/dislikes, books/authors, so forth.
Interesting analysis of myspace vs. facebook!
Relevant to this, 2 weeks ago (June 14) I saw on CSPAN:
Specifically, I saw
***People’s Controlled Media – Jeff Chester ***
Chester’s presentation was really good.
Webcasts are supposed to be available soon.
Anyway, one of Jeff’s points was that SNS like MySpace and Facebook are going to shape the way we understand reality. He’s executive director of the Center for Digital Democracy, and I recommend his website. He has a new book out: Digital Destiny. You can read full intro from his new book here. Because of our experiment with Facebook, this is an important subject, and I’d recommend that we ask Jeff over for a chat on one of our book salons.
One of their recent studies includes “A Race to the Bottom – Privacy Ranking of Internet Service Companies“. Unfortunately, Facebook does not rank well (please see the report.) However, let’s be fair: Google has a worse record on privacy issues– in fact, it is in the worst category (Color coded black). Facebook is one step up from that, in the color code red. So if you don’t hesitate to Google, you shouldn’t hesitate to use Facebook!
Jeff’s speech really impressed me. At the very least, I hope Jane, Pach and FDL’s brain trust will get to know Jeff and consult with him as we swim into the new digital age.
Bob in HI
Eureka Springs @ 21
Its great that Facebook has a polls feature. That is something that FDL has lacked. I agree that would be a great tool for FDL to use. For example, it was a bit awkward when promoting the Roots Project to do a poll of Firepups. Wouldn’t the Facebook poll feature make it easier?
Bob in HI
glad youre done w/ chemo treatments jane.
hope connecticut isnt too brutally hot. its usually much cooler by the sound, especially in the late afternoon.
try and get ctbob to take you sailing someday, there are a bunch of cute little islands off the coast. good way to spend an evening> :)
anyway, my family sends you warm wishes and big hugs.
Thanks all. When I hit join it just added my facebook info.. I’ll update the profile later but for now lets just say frustrated yankee in living in the south..
Eureka Springs @ 21
I like that idea. I was trying to get the poll thing working but I could only get it to work on my profile page, not on the FDL Facebook group. If anyone can figure out how to do it, lemme know.
Bob Schacht @ 26
Phew. I don’t know that I agree with their work, but I think the biggest single problem isn’t Google as much as it is users.
Users need to know (and empower themselves to educate themselves) that they can control how much Google knows about them — and Google doesn’t have a problem with that. Note the tools at this site to mask information about users from Google while retaining the ability to use Google. And then use them!
I personally find Microsoft’s Windows Genuine Advantage and its patch process extremely invasive and damaging. I’ve lost critical work because of the way their patches work, been hung up in conference calls when WGA insists on butting in while I’m trying to work. Much more hurtful to me than any other proprietary or open source software I’ve used. But the report doesn’t address this, only the privacy issue.
I think it’s important for users to realize there’s an implicit trade-off across the entire internet; your attention and your choices have value to marketers/advertisers, and they are willing to pay for it in such a way that you receive services in exchange for providing time and information. It’s that or pay for the services; there’s no free lunch, after all. (Amazon is likely the best example; it tracks your surfing habits at its site and provides continuous suggestions based on your history along with the aggregated history of other people like you in order to make better suggestions. If you shop at Amazon, do you have a problem with this? Most Amazon customers don’t.)
But you can figure out how to tell marketers what you want, without having to disclose your entire life; you just need to be smart and keep this trade-off in mind as you use the internet.
As a result, the court upheld a federal anti-abortion law, cut back on the free-speech rights of public school students, strictly enforced procedural requirements for bringing and appealing cases, and limited school districts’ ability to use racially conscious measures to achieve or preserve integration.
With the exception of four death penalty cases from Texas, where the state and federal courts remain to the right of the Supreme Court and produce decisions that the justices regularly overturn, the prosecution prevailed in nearly every criminal case, 14 of the 18 non-Texas cases.
Fully a third of the court’s decisions, more than in any recent term, were decided by 5-to-4 margins. Most of those, 19 of 24, were decided along ideological lines, demonstrating the court’s polarization whether on constitutional fundamentals or obscure questions of appellate procedure. The court’s last-minute decision, announced on Friday, to hear appeals from Guantánamo detainees required votes from at least five of the nine justices.
#
Okay, work calls, must finish up the last of the moving chores at the old house.
You folks who’ve been thinking about Facebook give it a shot; do your homework, read up about them, ask questions if you have concerns and the FireDogLake pups will be very happy to help.
Take the plunge so we can get you plugged into near-term projects and fun stuff.
Jane Hamsher @ 30
Poll/demographic survey would be very interesting.
I like that you say “I like that our numbers. . .”
goodday pups – i’m in facebook and hopefully will learn to navigate better on that site – hope things are going swell with you jane – you’re still on my prayer list ;o)…
rwcole @ 32
The reconsideration and last minute decision to hear Gitmo, combined with the the “run” of pro-fascist rulings, makes me very uneasy. If SCOTUS affirms the right of the President to designate “enemy combatant” and to deny federal judges oversight, we are screwed. I can see a 5-4 decision..the “gang of four” has been embolden by their victories.
OT: While our news is 24/7 car bombs, at least 30 civilians killed in Afghanistan today – some estimates much higher:
http://www.examiner.com/a-8073…..s-Top_News
Hmmm well I found one Q & A related to posting polls on a group page… Only one convoluted option at the moment..
response from a poll person below..
108 Iraq casualties month to date. Third consecutive month with deaths over 100.
rwcole @ 40
A new record! The Surge is a Success!
With all the interviews of officers in Iraq- I don’t think I’ve ever heard a coherent story of what the Troops are DOIN there- I mean ya get up S,S and Shave- then ya get on yer gear and strap on yer weapon an THEN what? Ya go on patrol? Lookin for WHAT exactly? How do ya know who to fight?
We don’t know where we’re goin in Iraq- but we’re makin good time.
Glad we got outta the “When the Iraqis step up we step down” stratergy- they ain’t NEVER gonna step up.
Guess now it’s “When we step up- the Iraqis go home” statergy.
Jane Hamsher @ 19
On that note: I am still hosting the “Most Adorable Photo of (margaret) Marcy Ever!” contest at my page – please submit to me at the contact email there.
When asked what the president’s strategy in Iraq is, most americans say “surge”- which is to say- “We don’t know what the hell we’re doin- but we’re doin MORE OF it.”
Frank33 @ 41
In the 49 months from the beginning of the war to the beginning of the “surge”, there were 5 months when deaths were 100 or more. Over the past 3 months; it 3 for 3.
The Iraq War is our destiny.
Steve @ 37
I know that is a danger, but there is also potentially a much happier explanation for the change of “mind” — i.e., that Mr. Swing Vote Kennedy is finally experiencing some qualms of conscience……so that the outcome might be a 5-4 decision the right way, for a change.
Well, I’ve just taken the plunge. This post made me do it. I’m now a facebook member. Not sure if that’s a good thing. It’s certainly an intimidating thing. I’ve got one friend. And I’m his friend too. Thanks Dakine.
p.s., part of the reason for hoping the above is that it was Kennedy, together with Stevens, who reportedly said they were going to keep watch on the gitmo issue after they refused to hear it in April. We can assume the man has heard the “rumors” that it is only the dark force of cheney that is resisting the momentum to close the place.
oddmommy @ 50
Thanks oddmommy – hope burns eternal they get it that Darth Cheney’s grip on power is no longer what it was.
Could someone put up a screenshot of a Facebook page for those of us who are not members?
(I find their signup page to be seriously grim in appearance; it’s a putoff in itself. And I don’t want to sign up for something I can’t see first.)
newspaperbrat @ 51
Where IS Cheney these days? Do you think that Shrub has been called home for a thumpin’ from papa bush and ursa major?
As Bette Davis told Eduardo Cianelli in Marked Woman, “I’ll get you if I havwe to crawl back from the grave to do it.”
Back in the Viet Nam era Social Networking was done through the hundreds of coffee house/drop-ins that were set up just off the military base. I got my radicalism in them, along with some great acid.
Since Murdoch owns MySpace I wish everybody would opt out.
MSM is not reporting the Cyclone in Pakistan that left ONE MILLION PEOPLE homeless.
Unbelievable…. ……….that this news isn’t even a blip on the MSM radar. And that Bush didn’t have anything to say.
PAKISTAN IS RIGHT NEXT TO IRAQ AND OUR TROOPS ARE OUTNUMBERED AS IT IS, THE DESTABILIZATION and the loose Nukes in Pakistan CAUSED BY LACK OF EMERGENCY AID CAN VERY WELL IMPACT OUR TROOPS SAFETY – WHERE IS THE MEDIA!!!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/30/04440/2448
Check out Pakistan’s English Language newspaper Pakistan Dawn. They have several articles about the situation there.
___More than donations the US armed forces have the capacity to move large quantities of food, water, and material quickly.
Transportation is the hard part here, and the simple act of sending in a limited number of helicopters would allow for the Pakastani to move materials much more quickly. And planes allow for moving large amounts of material to staging areas.
I’m certain that we have aircraft in the area.
_______There’s opportunity here as well. Disasters provide an opportunity for enemies to put aside enmity out of a sense of humanity.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/30/04440/2448
Elena @ 57
better revisit your geography notes. pakistan is not next to iraq but it is next to iran ….