Let’s just start with the acknowledgment that Sally Quinn is always wrong about everything, all the time and go from there.
Her trial balloon about Fred Thompson being a perfect replacement for Dick Cheney, however, brings up some interesting conundrums within the GOP side of the 2008 race. Some like Digby have questioned the wisdom of Thompson embracing the scandals of the Bush administration, saying it’s the kiss of death for his presidential hopes, but I frankly don’t believe this is true. Fred the lobbyist is running toward the base now, the 30% of the country who still think Bush is doing a good job and delusionally cling to every lie he has told them. The pseudo-affable Fred makes them feel good about this, and their little lizard brains which see the world only in terms of white/black, right/wrong do not like to be on the “wrong” end. Fred redeems them by redeeming their faith in Bush.
Others, like Atrios, believe that Thompson stepping into Cheney’s seat would be good for the Republican party. I don’t think this will happen for a minute — Cheney is way too powerful — but I actually think letting Thompson in would be like opening the doors to a Trojan Horse. There are indications that Thompson will continue to run toward the base and campaign on immigration reform, which might be a very successful tactic right now for him personally but could signify the death knell of the Republican party in the future. American Hispanics hold a variety of views with regard to immigration reform based on age, sex, economic status and other factors, they are hardly monolithinc on the topic. But they do know abject racism when they see it, and thanks to the host of ugly, race-baiting ads that they were exposed to when folks like Simon Rosenberg put them on Univision during the last election, there will be no doubt about what Thompson and his followers are trying to do, no matter how they speak about it. The dog whistles will be heard loud and clear and the GOP will likely be doomed to the fate of Pete Wilson.
It would, however, be a powerful lure to those who were willing to overlook Giuliani’s tepid support for some kind of reproductive choice (even though his history is not much different than Thompson’s) based on the fact that he stands, at present, the best chance of delivering the white house to the GOP in 2008. Because as I’ve argued before, they really don’t care about poor little fetuses, but they really, really don’t like dirty “illegals.” Thompson just might take Rudy’s candy away with such a tactic.
But this brings me in a round about fashion to something I’ve been pondering for a while. Why is Bush getting so worked up about the failure of the immigration bill, as evidenced by his pissy YouTube above? As Tom Schaller has pointed out, the future of the Republican party, demograhically speaking, depends on their ability to appeal to Hispanic voters (which is why if Thompson runs on immigration, he’ll be doing it on the back of the party). Does Bush really care about the party so much that he’s willing to keep bringing the issue up over and over again, even though it cuts into his support among the base every time he does it? Does he consider this his legacy? Is it because it’s his only domestic policy issue that is not DOA? The most convincing reason I’ve heard comes from Swopa, who said (via email) “Recall that when this bill started to move forward, the Bushites spun it as proof to the press that he was getting his mojo back. Oooops.”
If you look to ego as a prime motivating factor with regard to everything Bush does, you usually won’t go far wrong.
But if Bush really does care about seeing some sort of corporate-friendly immigration reform passed, and Thompson’s presidential hopes are going to beat loggerheads with this, it seems to put the two on a collision course that would doom any hope Thompson would have of taking Cheney’s place.
Which would mean once again, that Sally Quinn is wrong about everything, all the time.



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Sweet Jane!
Cheers for Jane! Congrats on getting through chemo! And thanks for FDL and the wonderful community you’ve created here!
Hang in there Jane.
I’ve been wondering, what would happen if we all started asking them “what about the pregnant illegal immigrants? what about their innocent unborn children?”
I think that we’d just hear the crickets and then they’d blah, blah, blah and deport, deport, deport.
Jane!
Badreporter cartoon that is very funny!!
Small typo;
be at.
Personally, I think the Republicans are going to get their asses handed to them.
Fred and Dick can flail away all they want.
Dick is going to be busy talking to his lawyers and Fred is going to be busy with his image, once his baggage starts to get more attention.
I still think we are seeing Bush with both halves of his brain removed, because they are busy saving their own asses right now. Only his lizard brain is available for what passes as speech.
One can only hope..
I don’t know Jane,I think Li’l Bush sounds tired and kinda defeated vs his usual cocky,spoiled Paris Hiltonion,pissy pants self.
But yeah,Fred is a train wreck,for a whole host of reasons. He creeps me out.
The Repubs need to dance with them that brung ‘em — both them that voted and them that paid for the dance. Immigration is one of those issues where the issues of the two groups are at opposite purposes.
In a word: Yes. His Manhattan DA Arthur Branch almost became the death of “Law & Order.”
Some good pictures from Seattle and Portland:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..ation.html
Location, location, location…
Oh and I meant to offer well wishes to Jane on completing this round of chemo too. Hang in there lady,you amaze me.
Freddie The Caretaker makes about as much sense as… well…
Freddie the DODO!
I think you are correct that boosh “cares” about the immigration bill because it his last and only chance for a legislative victory.
And it is sooooooo sweet seeing that hope get ground into the dirt by his very own beloved base.
Justice in this country is on life support, but not quite flatlined. yet.
scarlet p. @ 12
The Chimpeach sign is priceless.
-GSD
The Bush/Coulter Republican Party has lots more infighting to do. Lots more. The best thing to do is to keep holding up the mirror to the Ann Coulter’s, Limbaughs, Michael Savages, Tancredos, Goodes and Gingrich’s and say take a look.
OT Was at the dentist and missed the last post by Christy re. Jane. Sooooo. All the best Jane and thank you from the bottom of my heart for FDL.
OT
Anyone else having internet issues today? I can’t access half the sites I am looking for.
TexB @ 18
Must be local, hummin here in Georgia.
The problem is that nominal Democrats don’t turn out to vote in the same percentage as nominal Republicans. Polling says one thing and the voting booth (and let’s specify outside Ohio) says another. If Democrats and/or progressives can’t overcome that I think we are going to have a real problem come 2009 and (perhaps moreso) 2012.
Cranky
I don’t know what to say. I”m pretty sure that hot-blooded Shakira-inspired type women will be unable to resist the hunk of all hunks Fred Thompson and his passionate cry for humanity’s freedom.
He truly sings the body electric, no?
Just the cartoon for Trex!!
With you, Jane.
I don’t see how Thompson, or any other ambitious politician would want to take Cheyney’s place on the bridge of the Titanic.
A year from now, the political landscape is going to look even worse for bush and the GOP borgs that it does now, and it looks like homemade shit NOW.
Any republican who seriously considers JOINING the bush administration to be a shortcut to the white house, should be disqualified on the basis of idiocy. But, since Thompson IS the current darling of the cousin-fuckers, let him do it.
And that twelvemonth from now, we’ll watch him try to distance himself from bush, as he serves as his vice-president. :o)
BTW, when Cheyney goes, there goes bush’s insurance policy. Dumping Cheyney is just the first step for the GOP to take, to get rid of bush. And they WILL take it, no matter who’s stupid enough to want to be the caretaker Preznit.
scarlet p. @ 12
I am on the other side of the river from Portland and I always thought a good spot would be on the 205 bridge where it goes over highway 14.Lots of traffic going both ways all day.
Way to go Jane! There’s lot’s of good energy out here for you.
The Democratic house must begin impeachment proceedings against Cheney and Gonzalez immediately, otherwise these thugs are going to be trouble in 2008. The Democratic Party can’t run on Iraq alone.
Internet has been slow for days now. I think we’ve all be put on the slow lane sicne we joined facebook.
Walcott does offer this admonishment:
“Tilting at scarecrows such as Ann Coulter diverts us from the wheels of war that are being set into motion.”
He says Tom Lantos’ bill is just shy of declaring all out war.
-GSD
Jane – you awe me, woman! Godspeed to a swift recovery.
Guiliani scares me because he’s just the sort of evil bastard who would revel in unitary powers.
Fred scares me because of the knack we have for electing empty suits fronting for their corporate masters.
I think DFH’s can take down Guiliani. Because of Hillary’s negatives, Fred concerns me.
GSD @ 26
What bill?
The simple answer is no, Fred Thompson will not be the death of the GOP, George Bush is. When Bush Jr. took office I lamented that the man had been an utter failure at just about everything he ever tried to do and left a wake of destruction behind him. I knew he would destroy the GOP, I just hoped he wouldn’t destroy the US in the process. So much for hope.
I worry that such a strongly Catholic population, like the Hispanic vote, will eventually go Republican regardless of how much they are race-baited due to reproductive issues (abortion, birth control) and gay marriage.
I honest don’t understand the “frontrunners” on either side.
Guiliani scares me too, but I don’t think there’s any way in hell the cousin-fuckers (love that!) are gonna elect his sorry ass.
*I* don’t like Hillary, and not only do I not know anyone who does…….I don’t even know anyone who knows anyone who likes Hillary. (intending no offense to Hillary supporters here, of course.)
So why are they the frontrunners? Who ARE these people the pollsters poll?
(Speaking of which, has anyone here ever been “polled”…..or know anyone who has……etc?)
The Republicans might be persuaded to replace Cheney with a caretaker type and then finish the job by impeaching Shrub and then try to distance themselves from Shrub. I have always shared Gilliard’s view that it would be the Republicans who would topple Cheney.
On the other hand, the Republicans might replace Cheney with a Democrat with the view of impeaching Shurb and then blaming the Democrat. Desperate men will do desperate things.
Looks as if the AP is finally running with the story on Mitt the dog torturer.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…..Trail.html
I bet Kobe would have quite a post to write about this….
very curious about this quote… what was his fate?
the GOP will likely be doomed to the fate of Pete Wilson.
I’ve no love for the guy, but damn did he have bad luck as governor. We had everything during his tenure… the big Oakland Fire, The LA Earthquake, the LA Riots, plus a winter with 25″ of rain in Southern California causing mass flooding…. all he missed was a pestilence!
Alice @ 32
I just had a disturbing vision — Hillary replacing Cheney as VP.
raven @ 19
Pages are loading, just slow for me (in ATL like Raven) at times….I blame a certain new phone that goes on sale at 6:00…
Any breakdown on the polling of Hispanics? Are the Cubans still supporting the GOP I heard the younger ones were going our way. How likely are Hispanics to vote at what level are they motivated to vote? We have about 70% of the whole population against Bush but just how motivated are they to vote? Bush’s 30%ers are very motivated well maybe not this election but because they turn out they have strength way more than their numbers. But with all the bad news Bush has been getting maybe this time the 30%ers won’t come out to vote. That would give us a landslide. Expect the GOP to use that as an appeal to their base, how do we counter their last card?
It can be demonstrated with his own words that Boosh doesn’t care about the party: during the 2000 campaign, I remember him telling the RNC that if they let Steve Forbes do to him what Forbes did to Dole in ‘96, that he would sit on his hands and let Gore win.
We should have been so lucky.
The fact that Thompson is polling as strongly as he is is confirmation of something Jane said a few months ago: They don’t really care about most policy positions (excepting immigration here). What they want is to stomp Dirty Fucking Hippies into the ground, and they will go with whatever candidate makes that most possible.
They don’t care about governing. Thae care about winning.
Like Jane said.
Brisingamen @ 35
Gore, he is the only one with a legitimate claim to power.
randiego @ 34
And prop 187. His own making, if I may say.
A great read, Jane, snarkelicious ;->
Feel better soon.
So glad you’re finally on the other side of all those treatments.
The Lantos Bill.(pdf)
-GSD
CityGirl @ 33
I love dogs, and I HATE him for that.
Talk about showing one’s true colors……
Alice @ 39
now people, this is getting…, well…
*snerk*
Gore in the top spot.
No other will do, except maybe SecyState if he chooses…
Mitt Griswold.
-GSD
newtonusr @ 40
randiego @ 34
And prop 187. His own making, if I may say.
Prop 187 was bad, but energy deregulation was worse. That was his baby.
TCU #37, I don’t know about anywhere else, but here in FL, non-Cuban Hispanics seem to favor Democrats around 60-40, while Cubans favor Republicans overwhelmingly.
OfT as usual – sorry:
Then, barely a week later, a panel of the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals rejected the entire legal category of “unlawful enemy combatant,” a neologism crucial for the Military Commissions Act. And now, today, the Supreme Court announced it will hear a case brought by two other detainees challenging the constitutionality of the act…
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003568.php
And, guess who’s showing up tomorrow to speak with (to?) the 4th Circuit judges… Chief Justice John (stare de – what?) Roberts.
Saturday, June 30
4th Circuit Court of Appeals Judicial Conference, with SC Chief Justice John Roberts
On C-SPAN, 9:30am ET
There go my Saturday cartoons.
Preview is my friend: “crats”. [Mod: fixed]
In some ways, I think the current court rulings may be a blessing in disguise for the dems. I’ve known a lot of people (I’ve spent most of my life in the great plains) who were fairly liberal on social issues, but voted gop because of issues like tax breaks. When queried about things like access to birth control and abortion, they frequently replied, but the court won’t let the gop remove our rights. However, once the court starts letting the full spectrum of harms that gop policies cause to actually have an affect on the white, middle class groups, they may realize that they have to vote dem.
One can always hope anyway.
Stephen Parrish CPA posted this link at truthout concerning Bush’s possible endtime beliefs and their impact on foreign policy. In light of what may be happening re Iran, give it a read.
If anyone has a larger ego than Bush it’s Cheney. I think that creep the veep will finish out his term. And I view Thompson as the man for the Democrats to beat. And worry about.
Backstage at the Fred Thompson Show
He’s not in the race yet, but the actor turned potential White House wannabe is warming up the crowd.
June 28, 2007 – Fred Thompson isn’t officially a candidate for president, but he might as well be. The pomp and circumstance accompanying his highly publicized visit to South Carolina on Wednesday—home of the “first-in-the-South” presidential primary—followed just the script you’d expect from a onetime Hollywood actor turned White House hopeful.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19…..e?from=rss
OT PSA: Throw out any Veggie Booty in your pantry.
In a sign that the Bushsurge is a smashing success.
Mortars striking Greenzone on an almost daily basis.
Thus indicating the desperation of the insurgents.
-GSD
GSD @ 44
I am so glad I just put down the Mt. Dew…..
Wow, GSD. Thanks for the link. That is a genuinely frightening piece of legislation.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 52
not to be overconfident, but the only race we’ll have is if Hillary is the Dem candidate.
“But this brings me in a round about fashion to something I’ve been pondering for a while. Why is Bush getting so worked up about the failure of the immigration bill, as evidenced by his pissy YouTube above? As Tom Schaller has pointed out, the future of the Republican party, demograhically speaking, depends on their ability to appeal to Hispanic voters (which is why if Thompson runs on immigration, he’ll be doing it on the back of the party). Does Bush really care about the party so much that he’s willing to keep bringing the issue up over and over again, even though it cuts into his support among the base every time he does it? Does he consider this his legacy? Is it because it’s his only domestic policy issue that is not DOA? The most convincing reason I’ve heard comes from Swopa, who said (via email) “Recall that when this bill started to move forward, the Bushites spun it as proof to the press that he was getting his mojo back. Oooops.”
Thank god the racist wing of the Party screwed Rove/Bush on immigration. I think the Hispanic vote was the key to Rove’s Republican majority forever. Except for the “minor” problem of skin color and language, a large majority of Hispanics are as, or more, socially conservative than the native lizard brains. A poll that I saw (Atrios?) 37% of Hispanic’s are now evangelicals and ~87% are anti-choice and anti gay rights.
I just saw a nice, elderly woman with Code Pink arrested in front of the White House for wearing sackcloth and ashes as penance for all the dead in Iraq.
Tanbark @ 23
Dumping Cheney would be the smartest thing the GOP could do to save their party from being sent to wilderness for decades. I don’t think the Senate would confirm Thompson so I don’t see that happenning. Maybe the repugs will pull Alan Keyes out of their ass??? That would be hilarious.
Boston1775 @ 51
Boston – did you see my response last thread? Also go here. It’s MSK’s Nutrition site.
1,562 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOES ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Patriots:
Your political analysis is right on, as far as it goes…I think Bush and the oligarchy are lookin’ at one last chance for a new “Bracero” program. They know that they’re out of power for the next 10-20 years and the Supreme Court will hold up their interests and occupy the Democrats’ political energy tryin’ ta undo the damage of the years from 1994. If they don’t get a corporate friendly guest worker program now…they surely ain’t gunna get it anytime soon.
As for Fred Thompson, I don’t think anyone in the fascist power structure is lookin’ ta win ANYthin’ in ‘08. I believe that the Nazi wannabees plan a slash and burn, scorched earth campaign to emasculate the Democrats comin’ in and tattoo all the problems from the economy to Katrina and Iraq on the Democratic Party. The last thing the oligarchy wants is a Republican President in place to take responsibility for the messes they have made.
The Supreme Court is the Praetorian Guard to protect the monied interests and see to it that nothing is accomplished to improve the lives of regular folks. In the meantime, as things get worse and worse, we will see a new fascist Anti-Christ emerge from the dregs of the old South with the money of the crime families behind ‘im.
Don’t spend a lotta time tryin’ ta figure the short term strategies of the fascists…our solution should be to get the strongest Democrat (Al Gore) in the White House with the largest progressive majorities possible in the Congress. We only save democracy by advancing progressive majorities in all the elected chambers of power.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, WE CAN’T LET THE BASTARDS HIDE ANYWHERE!!
GSD @ 54
Worried here that we are headed for a Tet-style counter-offensive. Also worried about have 3 carriers in the Gulf. Big Fat Targets.
GSD @ 25
holy crap! i just checked… and i think walcott is referring to h.r.1400 – it has 299 cosponsors! haven’t read it yet.. so i can’t comment on walcott’s description of it… but after the h.con.r.21 vote last week, i am completely freaked out.
Veggie Booty, isn’ that the name of Paris Hilton’s latest internets video?
-GSD
Flatford, is THAT where Keyes has been?
Cheney’s not going anywhere, except in handcuffs, an ambulance, or a box. And the electorate has a short memory-4 years after sweeping one criminal Republican party from power in ‘76, they elected another one: Ronald Reagan, and overwhelmingly.
From the Gavel:
July 9th deadline to comply.
Sally Quinn, David Broder and the other corporate journalists of the DC nomenklatura, are far worse than Ann Coulter.
Jane, you are the best and all the best to you.
brendan @ 59
Nine US killed yesterday in Iraq; June now the third month in a row with 100 plus US killed in Iraq.
http://icasualties.org/oif/prd…..Ref=6-2007
The thought is that if anyone were to take over for Cheney, they would bre tainted. If I we’re a potential Republican candidate for VP, I wouldn’t want much to do with Junior.
SilenceIris @ 30
I am not so sure that very many papists blindly follow the edicts of Ratzenberger these days, rather I think more go the way of catholics for choice and, frankly, the gay marriage issue is more a talking point of the coulter crowd than an issue likely to persuade a significant number of people to vote against a candidate for pres.
I think that catholics, like real people, will vote on issues such as the war, national health, schooling equality and their pocket books.
The religious nuts to worry about are the extremists that bush/rove covet like products of the Oral Roberts School of Interesting Law Interpretation
“The republicans might be persuaded to…”
They will be so-persuaded, Alice. :o)
The prospect of so many of them in congress having to find honest work, and the prospect for the “base”, of having to watch the democratic tsunami that’s coming in 2008, will, as Steve said, have them howling for both their scalps. And, IF we have the spittle for waiting them out a bit longer, it will also have them joining us to force the withdrawal start. :o)
(Wasn’t Dick Lugar a handsome and distinguished looking rodent, as he tap-danced around the gangplank step? :o) )
(As I’ve been ranting, doing it ourselves, is the stuff of suicide…)
Moving right along here; the entire immigration issue is a bullshit-slathered red herring; as is stated so accurately here, a racist dog-whistle to try to get americans to stop paying attention to the war, which, superficially, has temporarily arrived at a kind of bloody stasis, with the MSM, as usual, delighted to pimp Paris and the latest grisly murder to us, instead of pointing out that the past three month have cost us more dead (329) and injured troops than any other quarter of the war.
(The Iraqi deaths, are rolling right along, too…no big surprise there…)
That’s terrible, of course, but we didn’t create the cluster d’phuque… and the republicans who DID create it, want us to pick up the entire bartab for what’s going to follow the withdrawal, and that, we simply cannot afford to do.
Bush can shreik:
“Apre moi, le shitstorm!” until he’s blue in the face. All we have to do is reply:
“Really? We think at this point that the shitstorm is pretty much GOP-selective; we’re gonna leave you and the Grand Old Petro-Party twisting and jerking in the breeze, Commander Codpiece. Would you like some popcorn?”
My fear is just as the theocratic goonocracy in Iran is feeling the heat the US will give them their own very 9/11 to rally around.
Remember, if there is a way to fuck-up, the Bush/Coulter Republicans will do it.
-GSD
Gotta exclaim it at least once every 24 hrs.
Gore! ;0)
News from Jeralyn:
Rove came “this close” to being indicted. The unredacted DC Circuit opinion is out.
If we’re not going into Iran, why all the firepower out in the water?
OT, but for those worried about a Tet-style counteroffensive in Iraq, or an attack on Iran, may I humbly submit:
Green Zone Tet
The Challenge of Paul Van Riper
GSD @ 73
Theocratic goonocracy? I never even knew that Iran had a Republic Party, let alone one in control of their government.
Helen, Thanks. I’ll go to both sites.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 74
“there you Gore again” :~)
“Goonocracy”
Perfect!
Badwater @ 78
Interesting.
Flatford; you called it, with Cheyney being the first “star” of the District of Columbia political heart-removal Apocalypto play… But the GOP “priests” won’t stop there, methinks. :o)
(I’ve got $40 bucks riding on it. :o) )
BTW, of the “immigration” fish-drag; for the past three years, we had 700 Iraqi “immigrants” coming in. Total.
This year alone; 7 THOUSAND.
A year from now, that factor-of-ten increase has every chance of being repeated.
Can we have one democratic candidate asking how bush and the GOP stand on THOSE “immigrants”?
(Syria and Jordan are about swamped. If bush wants them to take some more refugees, I hate to think how much each one will cost us.)
JFC. our stupid congressional representatives are at it again. claiming that iran is in breach of genocide conventions – based on a mistranslation (as juan cole has throughly explained).
text link
haven’t yet seen the claim that iran has a nuclear weapons program in this bill (as was in h.con.r.21)….
does anyone is congress (besides kucinich and paul) understand that cheney wants to attack iran? didn’t iraq teach them that it is not a good idea to give this administration reason to rightly claim that – even the democrats thought iran is a with a nuclear weapons program and a genocidal president?
I agree that Cheney remains too powerful – too essential to Shrub’s low self-esteem, too much the energizer and thinker of this administration, too essential to planning its defensive retreat to out-of-officedom, too well-connected, and too fearful an opponent.
Cheney would never tolerate being dumped, even if played as “replaced” owing to ill health, unless he felt absolutely confident he could do to his replacement what he’s now doing to Bush.
I think that puts Fred out of the running. He could not have spent eighteen years as a million-a-year DC lobbyist with the fragile ego and weak mind of Shrub. He may not be as energetic, ambitious or knowledgable, or have a tenth the network of Cheney, but he could only pretend to take dictation for Cheney. Cheney would know that and scupper such a deal.
Not sure I share the opinion that opposition to immigration reform will automatically cause harm to the Republican party. This is a tricky issue that I believe the Dems could just as easily be hurt on.
If immigration reform isn’t coupled with labor protection (get rid of the corporate welfare known as the guest worker deal) and increased funds to cities and small towns to cope with the burdens immigration places on school systems, police and fire departments, and social services, then I fear Republicans could paint Democrats as the party responsible for lost jobs/lower wages, increased crime, greater demands on schools, etc.
I say no deals on immigration reform until we have a more favorable enviroment in Washington for Labor. That means we must get rid of Susan Collins, Mitch McConnell, and Sununu Jr.
Well, hmmm. I find this article by Ms. Hamsher to sort of wander around. And so, my wandering thoughts are:
1. immigration: I encourage Democrats to step carefully. I know LOTS of people, middle-of-roaders, independents, and so forth, who, to sum up their feelings, are “just tired of this shit”. CONTRARY to the thoughts of so many here, no, they’re NOT racists, haters of the brown, paranoids, etc. etc. They do NOT want massive round-ups and so forth….but they’re tired of border issues, and just want the illegals to follow the rules like everyone else.
I talked with a gal last Saturday night who remarked “you know, when I’m in the express check-out line at the grocery store, I don’t like it when somebody is ahead of me with more than 15 items!” She is NOT a racist…she just believes in rules and everyone following the rules.
So, I would encourage Democrats to be VERY cautious about treating anyone who even slightly disagrees on an aspect of immigration as a “racist”. You can drive away lots more than you keep with that attitude.
2. Cheney: he ain’t going anywhere! You’ll have to lead that power-hungry SOB out in handcuffs before he leaves. He’s drunk on his own machinations.
3. Bush: Commander Guy, in my strong opinion, could care less about the “party” and so forth. Despite his many masks, the essential Bush is nothing more than “to the manor born”. He cares only about his corporate buddies. Everything else is window dressing.
4. Has Thompson said anything on immigration? If so, I missed it.
Ghostman
The failure of the immigration bill means, of course, that Broder will have to pen another “Bush Regains His Footing” column. It’s been nearly five months since he last regained his footing.
I LOVE reading Sally Quinn. She’s like self-parody, except without the “self”. It’s like watching the Daily Show, except without the daily or the show. Sally rocks.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 75
it might even be worse than you think.
do you know where the enterprise is? all i know is this:
my bold
What jimoconnor and Ghostman said.
Hi, Sparkles!
I like to think of the hound as icing, but he has been responsible for a lot of their sellouts and the failures, so sure, I go along with that.
as long as it dies
Alan Keyes for VP. Now that’s funny.
Congratulations on finishing the chemo, Jame! Keep the faith!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 74
Tom Hartman just had a straw poll…Gore won!
can someone please honestly tell me that we’re not going to bomb iran? and that congress isn’t going to give the adminstration bi-partisan cover for it?
please, please, i beg you. if you think i’m crazy, please tell me i’m wrong.
you have no idea how freaked out i am now after seeing h.r.1400.
Jane, did you see my question about Pete Wilson at #34?
I asked Lahoma, (my lady) if this would be ok to send along for JH. And she said yes. And Lahoma never lets me (or anyone) down. So here you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg2n039txnk
RevDeb @ 75
Grrr. Frustrating.
RonD @ 77
wow… thanks for ruining my weekend. I hate the fact that I think the carriers are being waved at the bad guys as targets to start something. They aren’t unsinkable.
Selise #88,
I didn’t know that-it sounds like the launch window (if there is one) has shrunk. The model will not be Iraq, but Kosovo. We lack the ground forces for a land invasion of Iran, so it’ll have to be a sustained bombing campaign, quite likely for months-as was Kosovo, but this time conducted from both carriers and bases in Iraq-which also would seem to give Iran causus belli-to invade Iraq themselves. They may indeed have more forces than us in theater, as well as a possibly-sympathetic Shiite population. Iran is far larger and stronger than Iraq was, and we’re already overextended.
You’re scaring me.
Remember how we got into this immigration legislation mess in the first place. W thinks it’s a twofer–appeals to Hispanics & their future as Rs, and is a real gimme for W’s corporate sponsors. Furthermore, everything I’ve ever read about W & immigration has said he really cares about the subject and knows something about it–one of his few personal areas of expertise. AND, because of the appeal of a “path to citizenship” to Ds, W could get it thru a D Congress. So it was a winner.
That was the plan. What happened?
The R base got really really POed. That’s it, plain & simple. And Rove did not give the order to back off even as this became blatant.
To figure out where the Rs are now & in the future, think about where the immigration topic was before W decided to relegislate it. It wasn’t on anyone’s radar screen. As the 12 million (or however many) illegals were flooding in, there was nary a front page article or a talk-radio segment on the subject. Any analysis was stuck in some dusty economics tome or in some obscure union bargaining.
In other words, it has been one of the most phenominal cases of blowback ever reaped by a political move. The Rs have revealed their true rascist colors and Hispanics are estranged from the party for a long time to come. (Abortion issue takes second place to feeling like you are rejected in your own country, and Hispanics, like all other mainstream religious folk, will become less religious over time.)
Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of Rs.
GOD I LOVE SALLY QUINN. Lipsmacking goodness.
(from 1998)
http://www.salon.com/media/1998/03/09media.html
Ahh, I knew I saw this somewhere today:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/p…..over_N.htm
“A new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll indicates that Hispanics, by nearly 3 to 1, say they’re Democrats or lean that way. Of those, 59% support the New York senator over her presidential rivals — her strongest showing among any major demographic group and a huge potential asset for early contests in Nevada, Florida, California and other states with large Hispanic populations.”
RonD @ 89
Hi.
Oddly I have been laboring under the impression that the Republican Party was already dead. What goes today by that name today is not the Republican Party but a bogus entity.
The Republican Party I know was isolationist, deficit-averse, hated big government, and did not dare tamper with my freedoms.
Doesn’t sound like what we have today. So what happened to the Republican Party, on whom we now look back with fond nostalgia?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 97
MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm, thank you, too!
The only way Cheney would give up the Vice Presidency is if it were pried out of his cold dead fingers (I know how could you tell).
As for Bush, Bush only cares about Bush. The country and the Republican Party can both go to hell as far as he is concerned. Immigration was sold to him a long time ago on the basis that it was good for business. More recently, he went back to it as a legacy issue.
Finally, Thompson is a racist airhead but then so are the Republicans who make up the base.
Do Republicans have strawman polls? If so, they must be Luntztastic.
-GSD
So I guess Addington will be running the country when Dick goes in to get his pacemaker changed?
Speaking of Fred Thompson, do you remember that Michael Bloomberg has also appeared on Law & Order? I saw the rerun a couple of days ago, where Bloomberg has a cameo–being Mayor of NYC!
randiego @ 63
Not to promote violence, or to paraphrase our Prez…but, maybe better there than the Golden Gate Bridge….
(sorry, pups, I’m kinda cranky today.)
I’m sure that’s the kind of reporting mistake that could happen to anyone.
God, doesn’t Addington strike you as Dr. Strangelove’s Lawyer?
eCAHNomics @ 110
Didn’t Donna Hanover (Rudy’s most recent Ex) play a judge on a few episodes?
Let’s not forget Fred Kagan and Bill Kristol have convinced Dick Cheney that once few bombs drop on Tehran a glorious revolution will occur in Iran. Much like the Prague Spring revolts in Czechoslovakia in 1968.
It’s a win, win situation.
-GSD
Worried here that we are headed for a Tet-style counter-offensive.
I am more worried about a Dien Bien Phu style disaster.
RonD @ 113
Capone’s lawyer.
demi @ 110
apples and oranges, my dear.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 111
That’s why Sally is Judy Miller’s idol.
Occham’s razor? Those of us who grew up surrounded by a largely Hispanic culture (New Mexico) may be more likely to attribute a benign reason — Bush simply does not see Hispanics as the “threat” that say, a Pat Buchanan does; quite the opposite. If you start with that premise, then a President who views himself as one who will be vindicated by history, and who does not have to face the voters himself would be more inclined to think about the long run future of his own party, as well as his legacy. And it doesn’t hurt that his business friends may be allies, but I think this is more personal to how the man grew up and how he sees people. His brother’s family would reenforce this attitude.
There are of course, more sinister explanations, but I don’t find them necessary, being the nice/naive guy that I am.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 114
Don’t remember those but I’ll keep a watch.
Pres Pissy Pants takes Putin to Poppie’s
Alice @ 115
1. Well, bear in mind, Tet was a military disaster for the NVA. Tet did sway the folks back home, but the enemy took a real licking over several months time.
2. I don’t know the scoop on the carrier, but also bear in mind that we rotate carriers in/out of the Gulf area. This could be just a normal rotation coming up.
Ghostman
selise @ 84
The political classes and the media have created a whole parallel history of the Middle East. They legislate and create policy not based on what is really happening there but on this alternate history. It is why all our actions there have such disastrous consequences. The bombs are real but the reasons for dropping them aren’t.
OT; but a fricking hoot.
if you have not; check out the thumping TOMMY CHONG puts on lil neil cavuto yeaterday on the faux noise channel…. ha ha ha.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/28/162035/432
‘DAVE’s not here man!!!’
The Dien Bien Phu scenario is also very realistic. The main difference is in DBP, the French were reduced bu sustained artillery and sheer frontal assaults, versus the possibility that the Green Zone will simply become impossible to supply and be evacuated. They won’t steamroll us and march thousands of Americans into POW camps, as happened at DBP.
selise @ 95
You’re not crazy. It’s just that there’s absolutely nothing we can do to prevent this. It is in other people’s hands. The helplessness exacerbates the fear.
For those who haven’t been queasily following this for the past two years, the third carrier was supposed to have been deployed earlier this year, but, according to one report, Fallon said no under threat of resigning. What does it mean that it’s mission is “surge support”?
Very BAD NEWS about Net Neutrality
GOP = cornered animal
It could get very nasty, it could crumple up and let us carry it away, it could jump over/around us and get past us. The question is which of these scenarios does Fred fit as heir to Bush as POTUS? as heir to VP if Cheney slides out early? If Condi or some other entity replaces Cheney early?
I tend to think it’s going to be the nasty animal that will bite at anything, including its closest friends. We should be looking for opportunities to shove GOP friends at it and let the cornered animal do our work for us.
Slightly different take on the Bush video here, too. This is the LONGEST that Dubya has done anything in his entire life, period. He is chomping at the bit to be rescued and reprieved of this mind numbing straightjacket that his handlers have forced on him, a kind of hell on earth to one suffering from ADD, ODD and alcoholism. And there is nothing in the next 18 months that will save him from this now that his last “pet” in the form of the immigration bill has been killed by his own party. He is depressed and pouty, like a child forced to do homework without the prospects of recess-playtime-desert in the near future.
And maybe he is just plain sick of everything, including that insufferable, suffocating asshole DeadEye who continually puts words in his mouth and expects him to toe the mark with him. (I had this subtle impression reading the Angler series, that this was a tantrum that had been brewing…) I suspect that he also knows that most people can barely tolerate him now, just as people can barely stomach somebody else’s spoiled brat for over long; even his wife cannot stand him if all the scuttle is true. Which leaves only Barney, and Barney isn’t the one forcing him to snap out of his torpor and leave the cozy safe confines of his mental and physical shell to talk with people he can longer stand and who obviously can barely stand him.
Hence the ugliness on camera…he just wants to finish this dreadful gig and get back to his beer.
“…as happened at DBP to the French…”
what is hr 1400? What does it say?
Ghostman
selise @ 95
Alice @ 116
I think that’s a real possibility. You know how narrow Iraq is in the south, and that something like 90% of the troops and materiel come in by truck from Kuwait. (Gosh, we bought quite a strategic site for ourselves in Gulf War I, didn’t we!) Somewhere (Juan Cole?) I read that Basra’s almost completely out of control already, with more U.S. troops than British troops now in that area. Any attack on Iran would certainly cause them to finish the job of closing the roads, and even if that doesn’t happen, just a little more chaos, followed by some organization among the chaotins (Muqtada al Sadr?) could also do the job.
I’ve not seen any coverage of how much of such a closure of truck routes could be overcome by airlift. Iraq ain’t Berlin, though.
1400 is 2 oclock pm.
HA HA HA. Crap, I totally mistook what you were asking Ghostman.
Bustednuckles @ 133
Cool. Thank you.
Ghostman
Oklahoma kiddo @ 73
Speaking of the honorable Al Gore, my big beautiful Re-Elect Gore 2008 button arrived this morning from BuzzFlash. Its a beauty with the O in Gore in that lovely earth image. If memory serves me correctly it was a donation of five bucks and came postage paid.
ReElect President Gore in 2008! Accept No Substitute.
i heart jane @ 125
New generation, my hero again! Watch this -it’s great.
scarecrow @ 120
It is also a family issue. Jeb is married to a Mexican woman and they have three children. For a while Jeb lived and taught English in Mexico.
Ghostman @ 136
I thought it was two blocks down from where Barney lives.
Ghostman @ 122
Stennis and Nimitz are in the Gulf. Enterprise is reported as heading there, to provide backup on the other side of the peninsula.
Rayne,
You said it. Dean did last night on KO too. These people are cornered and going to the mattresses. Dean said they wouldn’t be so protective of the docs and testimony that Leahy and Conyers are trying to compel if they didn’t have some bad sh*t to hide.
Cornered animals are dangerous. I hope that Leahy and Conyers et al have a team of shrinks they are consulting along with the lawyers.
randiego @ 141
These clowns don’t have anything like the Main Force VC and NVA Units that were used in Tet.
selise,
The primary obstacle to military action against Iran probably comes from the American business community. They don’t want to see $100 plus oil. They know it means a major recession and a nosedive in their profits.
Beyond them, there are still a few generals at the Pentagon and diplomats at State who understand what a disaster this would be.
On the other side, you have Cheney, Lieberman, the religious right, the pro-Israel lobby, some neanderthal Republican yahoos in the House, and a large and fairly amorphous group of Democrats who come up with idiot resolutions without really meaning them or understanding their consequences.
I remain a skeptic about an attack on Iran. However, if such an attack were to be made it would be during a changeover in the carrier groups stationed in the Gulf.
brendan @ 125
you don’t think we could influence any of our D congress critters on this? you don’t think it’s worth trying? (if the threat is real)
> The Republicans might be persuaded to replace
> Cheney with a caretaker type and then finish
> the job by impeaching Shrub and then try to
> distance themselves from Shrub. I have always
> shared Gilliard’s view that it would be the
> Republicans who would topple Cheney.
Cheney and even W Bush have been extraordinarily successful for the people who put them in power. In fact I would say one of the most successful presidencies ever from that point of view – even FDR did not accomplish as many of his fundamental goals as Cheney has (something that may not be fully understood for 5-10 years but is true nonetheless). There is no way in the world these people would agree to replacing Cheney during the last innings when so many plans are just coming to fruition. As far as being concerned for the future they figure they have the 30% no matter what and just need to crank up the propaganda machine to get 20.1% more in 2012 (also figuring that 2009-2012 would be good time to let the Democrats take the heat for the table of failure set by W).
Cranky
raven @ 143
Of course we don’t have 500,000 troops either!
selise, hugh:
I trot this out on this site a lot, so forgive me the repitition, but remember last summer’s 410-8 Lebanon vote. That’s all you need to know about what the House is about.
As for the Senate, Clinton, Obama, Kerry and Dodd are among the 63 co-sponsors of the Iran Counter-Proliferation Act. Biden is not, strangely.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/…..00970:@@@P
http://www.cfr.org/publication/13421/
Strangely enough, I’m an optimist at this point. Since Congress’s rightful constitutional role in warmaking, and foreign policy generally, has been eliminated, they have no real input and feel free to abase themselves before That Lobby. I don’t think we’re going to war with Iran. I was sure of it last year.
There is a new thread up if anyone wants to move on from this discussion.
Rayne @ 129
I agree with you totally. My feelings exactly.
Typical behaviour of someone in denial. Not only blame everyone else, but kick the dog, too.
Hugh @ 144
i hope you are right… but it looks like there are 2 carrier groups there now with the enterprise possibly there soon (and reports from unreliable sources like debka saying the enterprise is on it’s way).
the last idiot resolution i know about (h.con.r.21) said that Ahmadinejad was guilty of violations of the genocide conventions (based on lie) and that iran has a nuclear weapons program. it was voted on in the house last week – and only had 2 “no” votes (kucinich and paul). when kucinich tried to read the correct translation into the congressional record, he was prevented for doing so). it’s not a group of democrats – it’s ALL of them (minus kucinich).
and now this week there is h.r.1400 with 299 cosponsors and a companion bill in the senate (s.970) with 63 cosponsors.
So glad you’re doing better Jane. I want you around for a long time girl.
As usual, you appear to be reading my mind with regards to Thompson. Personally, I think his nickname should be “Rerun” but, his attempt at a populist position on immigration is one of the more transparent attempts I’ve seen recently. My personal belief is that all conservative motives can be boiled down to Race, Class and Sex. Thompson is ditching class and focusing on race which will bite him in the ass. Unfortunately for Thompson, the righties can’t get away with the blatant racism the way they did 30 years ago when they told us all african americans were going on welfare and robbing us blind. The demographics have changed and will continue to work against them.
selise @ 145
selise:
Here’s what I’ve done:
Early last year I got a friend who has a business relationship with Rep. Charles Dent (R-PA) to personally hand him a lengthy, respectful letter urging him to go on the record against employing a nuclear first strike on Iran. More generally, I urged him against any military action against Iran.
Last winter I spotted, unbelievably, Jeb Bush unaccompanied on the street. I discreetly followed him, trying to think of what I would say if I had the chance. At a light we stood even with each other, and he asked me the directions to Massachusetts Avenue. I told him, then quaveringly said, “Mr. Governor, I’d like to ask that you use your influence in the White House to prevent any attack on Iran.” He looked at me like I was a little crazy, then smiled and said “Sure.” It’s a silly story, but it illustrates how freaked out I have been, too.
brendan @ 148
i was worried last year. this year i’m freaked out… and it’s because of the house actions – i was personally told by my congressman (jim mcgovern) in march that he had a promise from speaker pelosi that there would be a straight up vote on telling bush/cheney they were not to attack iran w/o congressional approval (this was just after it was pulled from the iraq supplemental h.r.1591). senator webb had a similar bill. and both efforts went away… nothing. and now these bills like h.con.r.21? this signifies, i think, a change in congress… where did it come from?
anyway, i don’t mean to be obnoxious…. so i’ll quit for now.
thank you for your reply (and hugh and others too). i really do appreciate it…. been feeling like i’m yelling into the void and hoping beyond hope that my judgement sucks and/or that my reasoning is crazy.
You mentioned the immigration factor being a deal-breaker between the Thompson “campaign” and the Bush administration. But I would guess Thompson is just giving lip service to this “no amnesty” clause, he will turn on his nationalist supporters as soon as he’s won something.
The Republicans have been sitting on this immigration fault line for so long, they quit worrying about when the earthquake was coming.
Now that the earthquake is in full force, and thier gaping ideological chasm grows wider every day, they are all picking a new web of lies to assuage their redneck base.
Thompson’s got to take the “no amnesty” tack to keep his “nationalist redneck” base, the question is whether he will live up to those campaign promises, or is it just another Republican telling the goatherd what they want to hear, while the book-cooking, no-bid corporate wolfpack ruling them winks knowingly, assured that, once again, one of their own will get the top job.
And if history is any kind of teacher, we might have learned by now that those Republican promises to their own lower base are ALWAYS meant to be broken.
So when they believe Fred when he tells them “no amnesty” they are just setting themselves up for another big disappointment.
But for now, he’s got to say “no amnesty” and under the covers tell his wolfpack bedfellows that “you all know I really don’t mean it…”
Dover Bitch @ 128
shit.
I have it on good authority that Congress is getting an avalanche of angry mail about immigration.
It could become the kind of issue that motivates people to take action, and not in a positive way as far as we’re concerned.
selise at #154:
The links in your comments are great. I was scrounging around for any mentions of the carrier deployment, while you found that Navy site.
I, too, wonder at the context for this Congressional activity, but don’t have the analytical faculties or time to piece the news together. Maybe war proponents sense a shift against bombing and towards negotiations and are trying to use the surest tool they carry in their pocket — Congress — to resuscitate their efforts. It’s probably best to look for signs of whether Israel is going to attack Lebanon again this summer for an indication of whether we’re likely to attack Iran.
TexB @ 18
Called Time-Warner from my saturated North Texas area — the operator said even the company’s system was down. Just now, it came back up — I had started hyperventilating without FDL all day.
jane hamsher @ 92
Jane it would be the rematch of Obama / Keyes in 08. I bet someone in the GOP has thought of it. Seriously, if they do get Dick to step down I do think they will come up with a minority to take his place.
brendan @ 158
sorry for breaking my promise to quit…
what you write about the focus on negotiations makes sense… until i recall 2002 when the bush/cheney adminstration used that argument to get congress to sign on to “theatening” iraq if hussein wouldn’t let the inspectors back in. hussein caved to the pressure… and then we got our war.
i also lack the analytical skills necessary to really understand what is going on. glenn (who is of course much, much smarter than me, and follows the right wing crazies carefully) wrote on sunday
egregious @ 157
Interesting. This is exactly what I alluded to in my comment somewhere up above. And I fully agree with the analysis of Ms. egregious.
Ghostman
selise, Did you see the link to truthout I put up above? It’s about Bush’s take on endtimes stuff that Glen was talking about on your link.
Citizen Jane @ 3
Ah, but you see, you’re making the mistake of thinking that wingnuts think of Mexicans as human beings. In reality, wingnuts think that those evil Meskins only have sex so they can get pregnant, and then when the mothers are 8-1/2 months along they RUSH to the border so their demonic Catholic whelps are spawned on US soil and become — GASP — American citizens!!!! Eeeeeek!
Boston1775 @ 163
no, somehow i missed it. will go read it now. thank you much!
selise at #161:
That’s a good point about Iraq.
But in support of my own wishful thinking, the Holocaust bill is such laughable, over the top pandering that it all seems such a charade. And Lantos, obviously an Israel man, was very supportive of Pelosi’s Syria trip this year.
Meanwhile, the negotiations don’t seem at any phony “crisis” point, as there ostensibly was in the runup to Iraq: http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…..-Iran.html
brendan @ 166 -
i agree that the rhetoric is not at the crisis point stage (but all bets are off if there is another terrorist attack here in the states).
i think the syria trip is something different than iran. israeli leaders may hate syria – but they don’t see syria as a threat to their regional hegemony. iran may someday be such a threat.
selise:
This is a bit out of date, but here are some comments of Shimon Peres at Herzliyah, where our Democrats outdid each other in trying to be as hysterical as possible. It’s always a shock to see how foreign leaders speak to their citizens as adults:
“Ahmadinejad also did a wonderful job. Without him the West wouldn’t have unified to set an anti-Persian agenda. His extreme speeches caused the West to gradually prepare. I am full of hope that he won’t stop his exaggerations, his extremism, and his disregard of the Iranian situation. Through his exaggerations, Ahmadinejad not only incites the whole world against him, he also causes Iranian public opinion to turn away from him.”
“They say that Iran has become an empire. What empire?! That is a poor country with high unemployment, widespread hunger, and enormous corruption. This is an inflated claim that stands on shaky ground. Even if they had enriched uranium, it would be very difficult for them to provide for the needs of the children of Tehran, even if they needed to receive enriched for uranium for breakfast. You need more than this. You need an economy, you need a society. The weakness and emptiness of the Iranian regime have made it unsustainable. Before we go and bomb them, we need to try the non-military option.”
http://www.herzliyaconference……goryID=223
Maybe these are just world-weary words of resignation, but, then again, maybe its a good sign that he’s head of Israel’s Labor Party and ceremonial president.
1,562 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizens oklahoma kiddo and newspaperbrat and the Firepup Patriots:
Are you folks feelin’ like Big Al has moved his schedule up? I have thought for a long time that he would formally announce on Labor Day but I’m gettin’ the feelin’ that he may make a 4th of July surprise.
The insanity of a three and a half year race for the nomination has been born out by the pathetic poll numbers for ANY of the announced candidates and the obscene amounts of money they’ve all been drainin’ from the money wells of traditional Democratic donors. I think Gore has been keepin’ himself outta the line of fire and lettin’ the rest of the field skewer themselves on their records and positions on the issues…he didn’t need ta build name recognition and he knew that the more folks see of the wicked witch from New York (by way of Arkansas) the better he’d look.
I think he gets in AFTER the next round of scheduled “debates” among the declared candidates.
KEEP THE FAITH AND BELIEVE NONE A WHAT THEY SAY AND ONLY HALF A WHAT YOU SEE!!!
selise @ 165
ok… that fed into my freaked out state.
brendan @ 168 –
only 6 months ago.. that’s not bad. except, i don’t think iran is going to back down on uranium enrichment – as they are entitled by internatnional law to do. well, here’s hoping.
i think i’d feel better if the blogosphere was holding the Ds in congress accountable for their crazy bill making. our congress critters don’t respond well to pressure from a*p*c – i think they need a balancing pressure.
i’m going to go outside and try not to think about iran for a bit.
selise:
Here’s a refresher for others on lines that have already been drawn:
The threat of “mass resignation” in case of attack on Iran: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..434540.ece
Britain says basta:
http://www.jang-group.com/then…..rld/w3.htm
Fallon’s refusal:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/M…..7Ak03.html
What has changed this month? I don’t know. It doesn’t seem likely it’s changed to Cheney’s advantage, though.
selise:
…And those generals and diplomats got chatty, of course, in the wake of the ISG and the appointment of Gates.
I can’t ignore the possibility that Bush is seeing things from the endtimes point of view. If he is, then he thinks that this war is necessary to usher in the millenium.
I don’t want it to be true, but if these ministers are visiting him at the White House, we need to be up to speed about these beliefs.
Here’s the link
to today’s article about this fundamentalist head trip and those who believe it.
Boston1775 @ 174
No one person here is running things, perhaps least of all Bush. It’s best to discard any analysis of these things that reduces them to matter of Bush’s psychology, such as that attacking Iraq was an Oedipal thing, or that he’s an evangelical Christian (he is not). As often as not such overwrought pseudo-psychoanalysis comes from a desire to obscure real factors, such as, for example, the role of the Israel lobby in this stuff, or from ignorance of how, precisely, oil really comes into play (I don’t know). That “end times” stuff is fit for a Maureen Dowd column: amusingly grotesque, but irrelevant.
Sally Fucking Quinn.
Jesus wept.
And short of impeachment and conviction, Dick Cheney is out of the office of the Vice President if and only if his black, jerry rigged heart explodes in his misbegotten, bastard fuck’s chest.
neokneme @ 14
Let the Repubs keep on being themselves and lets keep handing them boulders as they trudge up the hillside.
Be well Jane, and thank you so much for your work.
Selise #95:
We are not going to bomb Iran.
If you’re in a debate with someone who thinks we are, here are your “talking questions”:
Do they think that CentCom (which had a “full plate”, the last time I checked…this morning…) wants to find out how the Iraqi Shia will react if bush starts bombing the Iranian Shia?
Do they think that the Brits (and their new P.M. Gordon Brown) sitting down there outside of Basra, want to find out how THOSE Shia will react? They too, are currently losing more troops than at any time of the war.
According to the CIA, during the war in Afghanistan involving the Russians, the Iranians got about 100 of those Stinger missiles which proved so effective against the Russian helos and aircraft there. And they certainly “shared” with the Russians who had a…mild interest in the system. It’s safe to say that Teheran has some really good upgrades now, and if bush goes after the Iranian reactors, those things will start showing up in the hands of some very angry Iraqis, including but possibly not limited to, the various Shia militias, and the price of air-support poker in Iraq will go through the roof.
And Centcom knows this. Which is one of the reasons why so many of our military are doing all they can to scotch the idea of attacking Iran.
See: Admiral Fallon’s comments:
“Some of us are trying to put the crazies back in their box.”
Do your “we’re gonna bomb the reactors” debate partners:
Think Wall St. wants to see how oil at $100 a barrel will affect our economy?
think that the repubs running in 2008, want to be explaining $5 a gallon pump prices to their SUV-Panzer constituents, and the rest of america? If bush attacks Iran, there will be so many anti-ship mines laid in the Straits of Hormuz that Condoleeza Rice will be able to walk across without getting her Guccis wet.
Our military doesn’t want it.
Wall St. doesn’t want it.
The congressional republicans don’t want it.
The Saudis don’t want it.
No sane middle-easterners want it.
Pretty good roster, huh?
Only Al Queada wants it. And haven’t we done enough to help Bin Laden?
The warpimps in the whitehouse got away with funnel-feeding us their jingo bullshit when they invaded Iraq. But that’s on their “futurist” resume’ now, and most american voters fucking well recognize it.
Where’s the cred for doing it again?
And if they go for a sneak attack, there are too many people in the pentagon who will leak it, the instant they get wind of it.
Likewise, with the Brits. I will guarantee you that Gordon Brown has told bush:
“You need to give us a 48 hour heads-up before you do Iran, so we can start boogying for the Kuwait border. Otherwise, post-attack, we’ll just tell the SHITTES to give us that 48 hours, and you can start looking for the troops to replace us as you try to keep a lid on the various militias down here, and as you try to keep at least some of the revenues from those southern fields, flowing toward the “Iraqi Government” in Baghdad.”
No attack on Iran. That train left the station a long time ago. In fact, the locomotive is now lying upside down in some Mesopotamian wadi.
We DO need to be paranoid enough about it, to keep raising hell every time goatboy pulls his toy sword out and starts waving it around, but there are just too many people who have no interest in watching george bush try to gin up a regional mideast war in which to enfold the fuckup he’s already created.
A VESTED interest, as the phrase goes.
Same old story, Selise:
Money talks and bullshit walks.
The bullshit promenade is now going on in Iraq. A lot of powerful, influential, people, including some participants in the shitmire itself, don’t want to see it take one step toward Iran.
JDM;
The jury-rigged heart will be the face-saving “out”. It could be true or not. After all, the man has had 4 heart attacks…
but it’s coming.
I said I had $40 on Cheyney’s resignation. Actually, it’s $60. :o)
I gave a friend a decent chance to win it, with the time frame in mid-november of 2007, instead of by the election in 2008.
We’ll see.
I still contend that Cheney will plead health and resign and Bush will try to appoint Jeb Bush as his replacement. I think he might feel the need for someone not on the National scene and a “friendly” that will, on a longshot, support him and his pathetic record.
Why is Bush getting so worked up about the failure of the immigration bill?
I think there are nuances at work here (I know, I know, hard to believe with W) that aren’t apparent if, like most people, you’re not from Texas. For all his many faults, I think that Bush is sincere about wanting to appeal to Hispanics. It’s one of the differences between New England-born-and-educated Bush and his many white racist supporters. If anything, this whole immigration mess is best seen as what a tone-deaf politician he actually is, since the opposition from within his own party really seems to have surprised him.
brendan @ 174 & 173 –
i do agree that there are many people trying to communicate their objection to an attack on iran. that they are doing so by leaks to the news media, says to me that they don’t think the formal communication routes are working.
beforer invading iraq there were plenty of people saying it was a bad idea (even snowcroft) and bush/cheney did what they wanted.and still do, even at great harm to the country.
i just don’t think bush listens to many people. and the people he listens to are cheney and the aei crowd.
i’m not trying to say that i think there will be an attack – i’m not smart enough or knowledgable enough… but i do think there is a very real risk. and i see congress acting as enablers while most of the country and the left/d blogosphere does nothing to hold them accountable. i think there is a value in educating congress when they are mislead by a mistranslation or when they don’t bother to find out what the iaea is saying about iraq’s nuclear program. and we’re not doing that. it worries me…. ‘cuz i don’t think my congressman is going to be convinced if i’m the only one calling him.
Just to be sure: This is the Barefoot Boy of K Street we’re talking about?