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If Joe Biden announced that you got tested for AIDS the moment after he announced his own AIDS test, how quickly would you clarify that you didn't get tested with him?
Let's go to last night's debate transcript:
SEN. BIDEN: ... I got tested for AIDS. I know Barack got tested for AIDS. (Laughter.) There’s no shame in being tested for AIDS. It’s an important thing.[snip]
MR. SMILEY: Thank you.
SEN. OBAMA: Tavis, Tavis, Tavis, I just got to make clear -- I got tested with Michelle. (Laughter, applause.)
MR. SMILEY: Ah.
SEN. OBAMA: In -- when we were in Kenya in Africa. So I want to --
MR. SMILEY: All right.
SEN. OBAMA: I don’t want any confusion here about what’s going on. (Applause continues.)
MR. SMILEY: All right.
SEN. BIDEN: And I got tested to save my life, because I had 13 pints of blood transfusion.
SEN. OBAMA: I was tested with my wife.
MR. SMILEY: And I’m sure Michelle appreciates you clarifying it.
SEN. OBAMA: In public. (Laughter.)
I don't think Barack Obama is indulging in frat boy humor, but Lane Hudson does:
With one comment, he erased the possibility that he would start a meaningful conversation in the Black community about this serious issue. This seems to reveal not only some level of homophobia, but also a level of immaturity which causes me to question Obama's ability to go all the way in this campaign.
I also don't think Senator Obama was worried the audience would think he's got some secret thing with the gentleman from Delaware, as Alexander M Belenky at TNR does:
So while he's all for combating homophobia within the African American community, it seems he also doesn't want anyone to get the impression that he's on the down-low.
Gentlemen, please! There are a number of possibilities, and only Barack Obama knows his intent. Which door do you think Senator Obama is behind?
Door Number One: "I got tested with my wife, to whom I am faithful."
Door Number Two: "I got tested with my wife, to whom I am faithful, while we visited an AIDS clinic in Kenya, in order to set an example."
Door Number Three: "I got tested with my wife, not with this guy who's talking about his own test -- because I am faithful to my wife and not (secretly) gay for him, which would be horrible and disgusting."
Door Number Three? Not so much, for me.
As Digby says:
Haha. It seems that one of the other likely interpretations I missed is that he wanted to make sure nobody thought he was having an affair with Joe Biden, which is perfectly understandable from members of either sex.
Joementum Bidenphobia: The irrational fear of sexual attraction to the senior Senator from Delaware. Don't we all have a wee bit of it?
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T!
Zed?
TRex, that is!
tres?
TSF!
Hiya TSF!
…or not.
Seriously, calling this frat-boy humor is just the lamest of the lame.
And please, can we not put “sexual attraction” and “Joe Biden” in the same sentence? Some of us haven’t had dinner yet…
TRex!!!
I almost want to use the lines of an old Jimmy Buffett song…Ah what the hell, “My whole world lies waiting, bee-hind, door number two.” (The song actually says door number three but my vote is Obama was opening door number two.)
SnarKassandra @ 6
Hey Cassie - staying dry?
Glad to hear your brother’s helping out the locals.
Mutant Poodle @ 10
Yep, we even had sunshine most of the day. But still lots of storms in the forecast.
Teh press will not give up the annals of the event.
Well, Joe does have a certain je ne sais quoi. (Sp?) But, when I called his office recently on one of our issues…I got the number for his campaign office and gave them my email address. Nuttin’ honey. But, I do get an email Every Single Day from Edwards. So, I guess he’s not all that crazy for my vote. I do love a good strong Irishman, though.
hello, everyone!
Mister TRex asked me to sit in for him tonite — and I wanted to bring you this little kerfuffle, which ran around the blogosphere today.
What did you think motivated Barack Obama to ask the moderator for a chance to reply to Biden? In my community, it’s not cool to bring others’ HIV tests into the discussion. That’s where I think Senator Obama was coming from.
Teddy, a pleasure to have you lead Friday night!
TSF, doesn’t CA have a privacy law specifically about AIDS testing?
Evening all. Hey TSF!
In a nanosecond. Just the idea of sex with Biden calls for an industrial strength bottle of brain bleach.
TeddySanFran @ 14
Good point. It would generally fit the definition of “nunya.”
What I’m anxiously awaiting, is this same Audience’s reactions to the Rethugs!!! I anticipate a few Kod*k moments!!! *g*
And Hillary was not asked nor told whether she had a test? Please, this is absurd.
OT…but worth a read
China Passes a Sweeping Labor Law
www.nytimes.com/2007/06/30/bus.....mp;emc=rss
US companies are throwing a fit and the Chinese government to them to get fucked.
My immediate reaction to Biden saying that I had been tested for AIDS would have been who the hell gave you permission to talk about my medical history? I sure as hell didn’t.
bg @ 20
Women are more likely to get it from a man then men are to get it from a woman. Or so they told us. Course it’s Texas so you never know.
Democratic candidates are all so juvenile.
Ron Paul for grown-ups.
My ex-husband used to date a woman Biden wanted to marry. While Biden isn’t someone I support, I do follow him with great interest!
Suzanne @ 22
Ditto. Really uncool and off base.
demi @ 13
But you do get all those offers for cheap V**gr* and C**l*s, don’t you?
Suzanne @ 16
Yes.
Clearly Kenya’s laws are different, since Barack and Michelle got tested “together,” which doesn’t really happen here. Partners can go in to get tested together, but each test is confidential (or anonymous) and discrete to the individual.
Senator Obama had just made some very strong statements about HIV and homophobia in the African-American community — at Howard University to a largely black audience. I don’t think he was back-pedalling for the homophobe vote.
GordonM @ 27
I get a million of those offers and i am a 15 yr old girl!
Such rugged hair plugs…Majestic multiple chins…Adorable inch-deep crows feet…Stylish bat wing eyebrows…Why, he’s Joechritudinous!
;>)
Seriously, though, this isn’t the first time that Biden has trod heavily on someone else’s sensitivities to get a soundbite, IIRC.
Sorry, TSF. I got in too much of a hurry there.
TSF!!!
SnarKassandra @ 23
Actually that is true for the most common strain of HIV found in America (actually transmission is most common from penetrator to penetrated regardless of sex). Several varieties found in Africa, the Caribbean, and Asia are more readily transmitted from women to men.
Suzanne #22, I think that’s the correct response. Maybe followed with the question: “Are you finished revealing what you know of my medical history?”
Most uncool is that some would see this as Obama’s opportunity to “connect” on this issue with the black community.
I guess it was good for him to blow it off with humor at the end, but really, I am offended that there would be some kind of push on this story linked to how Obama should have seized the moment or what?
Oh, AIDS is just a topic one should expect at a Howard U event? Gimme a break.
demi! — Is je ne sais quoi French for Teef-n-Tufts?
SnarKassandra @ 23
I believe it doesn’t matter whom is infected! My HS Sex-Ed never knew about Aids, IRCC, 1983 was it’s coming out party!!!
Maybe it was a continuation of the earlier kerfluffle over Biden calling Obama articulate. Biden does have a motor mouth that sends out some weird things at times. Obama could just be tired of it.
Obama’s test was televised; to promote awareness and encourage people to get tested. Not exactly done in private. He speaks about it on the campaign trail. I think jumping on Joe and clarifying they didn’t have one together was kind of lame.
GordonM @ 27
Never! I don’t get any spam mail. Ever.
1976.
RonD @ 32
And my follow up would have been is mine the only one you have looked into, and if so, why only me?
Of course, I’m a bitch with a headache so factor that in but still, if Biden had said that in CA about a CA test, I believe he would have committed a crime. Before the law changed, rape victims had to beg a judge to get a rapist tested and then beg again to get the results released to her.
Dru @ 37
True, but, also give Obama the due credit for where and why, he did it!!! *g*
TeddySanFran @ 14
well, yeah. That seemed a wee bit familiar…although, iirc, Obama was pretty open about it when he went to Kenya, and did it to encourage the same among Africans
Snort!
And I get the willies when Joe Biden just emails me.
I missed the debate. When I read about the exchange, it just seemed odd to me. Why on earth would Biden announce that he and Sen. Obama have had AIDS tests? It’s one thing to talk about your own health, but quite another to start talking about medical treatments or tests your colleagues have had. While I’m sure Biden had no malice in mind, it was just weird and odd. His foot-in-mouth disease continues. I had to wonder if he was going to say, “you see, that’s actually what I meant when I said Sen. Obama is ‘clean’.”
Suzanne @ 41
Do you know the thumb pressure point?
bg @ 39
If you are rferring to the first appearance of the HIV virus in humans, the best available evidence is that it had been present in West Africa for a century or two prior to its spread to Europe, America and the rest of the world. Gotta love globalization and improved transportation.
I view Biden’s gratuitous reference to Obama’s AIDS test, to bolster his own argument in behalf of his own candidacy, as somewhat akin to John Kerry’s talking about Mary Cheney’s sexuality in a debate, which I thought was somewhat out of line.
Run on your own merits, Biden, if you have any. Don’t try to use another candidate’s personal life to toot your own horn.
Suzanne I am sorry your head hurts. :(
bg @ 39
Really? Medically Diagnosed?
Actually, I guess when the virus became active in the US. . .which is sad to say when we found out about it.
DrDick @ 45
Ain’t technology grand!!! :-D
TeddySanFran @ 35
Well, I don’t know…ha ha.
There just been some times I’ve seen him on tv, was it Bill Maher, where I was impressed, but, then he does have that foot in mouth thingy going too many times.
I’m guessing Obama had the same reaction I would have - I’d be pissed somebody else disclosed my medical info (how the hell did Joe know?). Obama’s not exactly in the forum to say “joe, STFU” so he had to pull a safe answer out of his ass.
I’m in the old South, and once you cull out the fundies, most folks’ answer regarding possible gayness is ‘Yep’ or ‘Nope’.
30 years ago such a question could lead to fisticuffs, so progress is being made.
what fuckery is this???
(I have soooo been waiting for a chance to say that.)
I think Biden’s heart is probably in the right place, overall….but, for the luva Gawd, he is SUCH a clunkily bumbling idiot, so CONSTANTLY, he makes John Kerry look like a veritable genius of charisma.
bg @ 49
The original documented AIDS patient in the US (the first documented point of its spread from West Africa) was in the 1980s, but the epidemiologists traced it back earlier.
oddmommy @ 53
But John Kerry never made me laugh. It’s too bad that Biden has foot ‘n mouth disease because I believe that he is very smart. Edwards is still my candidate.
Biden was out of line for bringing that up like that, even if Obama did it in public. But Obama’s response seems like overcompensation. Maybe he was just being quick and witty, but there’s an undercurrent to his comments.
I find this whole thing bizarre and tinged with homophobia. An AIDS test is just a blood test, it’s not some elaborate medical process. AIDS can be transmitted through all kinds of risky behavior, including heterosexual sex.
Maybe I’m humor-impaired tonight, but ugh. It’s been twenty years since the horrors of Reagan and AIDS, can’t we be more scientifically mature about it by now?
Mutant Poodle @ 44
thumb and forefinger pressing on the earlobe?
I thought it was first linked to intercontinental travel, big ships, NYC, bicentennial.
demi @ 38
Ah. Well, then, I have $[huge amount] that my [relative] embezzled from the gov’t of [3rd world country], and I seek your urgent assistance in getting it out of this [3rd world country]! If you’ll just send me the deed to your eldest daughter, a Mercedes and a pound of Columbian coke, I’ll split it with you!
Suzanne @ 22
Commenters elsewhere have discussed that the Obamas publicly discussed being tested on their African trip, but yes — the principle still holds.
Here’s a comment thread I found instructive, from Pam’s place:
There’s a whole lot of P.O.V. in this exchange: who are you, what did you hear, what did the man mean??
it’s worth mentioning that he also mentioned the problem that the stigma of homophobia causes efforts to encourage AIDS testing. I find it hard to believe that he would then turn around and play the part of a homophobe to the audience, especially considering he had plenty of other opportunities to pander and did not. Obama was making a joke: pointing to the absurdity of the circumstance in which one U.S. Senator would out another in a national debate in front of their families. If the two were having an affair what a way to bring it out in the light of day. That being said, he probably should have just let it go. I think Obama has been a pretty consistent supporter of the idea that gay bashing is an ugly enterprise. maybe someone should record a question on dont ask dont tell for the you tube debate.
The most amazing thing about AIDS is that it is almost completely preventable by behavior change–use of condoms. The virus is fragile & must be transmitted with exchange of fluids, otherwise doesn’t survive.
Now what does it say about human behavior if men choose to take a high risk of dying rather than use a condom? Women in Africa often don’t have the choice of requiring their partners to wear one, but men can guaranty their own safety, and don’t, in large numbers.
puppethead @ 56
One would certainly think so. This is, after all, 2007.
Suzanne @ 58
thumb and forefinger pressing on the fleshy part of the hand between the other thumb & forefinger - find a spot that hurts a bit, and if your headache is on one side of your head, press the other side. Only hit one side. Press for 30 seconds, then gently release.
neurophius @ 31
That’s entirely okay, I used to do that to Pach alla time too!
bg @ 58
As I recall, (and the story may have changed) the person responsible for the spread of the disease out of Africa was a gay airline steward.
Biden is kind of what G.W would be … if he didn’t have handlers, talking points and prescreened audiences Obama handled this well he took the test with his WIFE. We need Biden to debate some Republicans he likes in a friendly debate Biden seems to hurt his friends and his own side more than he does anything else. To bad I like his split Iraq into 3 seperate states plan.
Must say, I think Biden’s nice-looking. Nothing to do with the question, I know, but I don’t get the suggestion that he’s repulsive. Quite the opposite.
Now, Fred Thompson: in his case, I don’t get the suggestion that he’s hot. Once again, quite the opposite.
And my headache is gone, cuz my blog is back up after a 48-hour crash.
Oy.
Much easier to write posts than notes to tech support.
Dru @ 38
Others make the point, though, and I have to agree — Biden’s “disclosure” got a reaction from the audience. Obama may have felt he needed to address that reaction.
The question seems to be, among those who observed it and have watched it multiple times: what was the audience’s reaction?
Mutant Poodle @ 64
giving it a try and thanks.. i’ll do the side that hurts worst first then switch. how long before it starts to make it all better?
oddmommy @ 53
But he’s such a good Irishman, who could not want to have a beer with him?
So maybe Obama was reacting to the audience, not really worrying about the “low-down” himself as much as making sure the audience knew more about the context of his test.
Is it better to have this discussion if we realize that whatever the context, the topic was in the open?
Has anyone heard from Alfred today? Just wondered if he was okay after his fall yesterday.
GordonM @ 60
I don’t know, Gordo. Just lucky? I never order anything on line, and I’m careful about who has my eaddress. Filters? I dunno. And, no you can’t have my daughter. (she’s pretty cute though) :)
Suzanne @ 72
Do thje side that hurst worst and be done with it - switching doesn’t help.
Relief, if it’s gonna work, shoulc be fairly immediate. And remember, it should hrt a bit when you’re pressing…
Twain @ 74
Alfred fell? I had not heard about that.
neurophius @ 47
That is exactly what it reminded me of, and thank you! I could not put my finger on it. You did.
things come undone @ 68
I think it’s the only solution. There must be others than Biden who think so too. I know it has drawbacks and risks…..but it’s sure as hell better than any “plan” the bushits have come up with, and it bothers me that it is never discussed.
He said last night that he was going to bed early because he hurt all over from a fall.
DrDick @ 67
Sounds like what the British Navy has been accused of for the last century and a half!!! 8-)
ok, mp, giving it a try - one side only
Twain @ 75
In today!
I don’t think Obama’s reaction was inherently homophobic. I think the same reaction would have been appropriate if Hillary Clinton had stated in such a presumptious fashion that she and Senator Obama had both been tested for HIV. He was rebutting the possible inference that he had been involved in extramarital sex. And he was doing so in a humorous fashion, because Biden had violated his personal space, not because Biden had necessarily implied that Obama was gay.
Suzanne, hope you feel better soon.
GordonM @ 73
yeah. I can just imagine him rip roarin drunk in a pub, bellowing “Wild Rover”……
solai @ 69
You just don’t see what Tweety sees in him. Course Tweety only gushes about how Manly white, very Republican men, are who interestingly enough I’m pretty sure none of them ever served in the military. Tweety just loves him some Prowar ChickenHawks.
newtonusr @ 84
Thanks
Twain @ 81
I still hurt all over from the Fall of 2004–but I don’t think that is what he meant.
Patient Zero was a gay airline steward. There were a lot of people in NYC for the bicentennial celebration in 1976, big ships. Parties.
That is the start of it in the US. It did take a long time to figure it out, but by 1980, there were serious links to blood transmission, IIRC.
The politics of this then became very problematic, from the gay community to the blood banks and beyond. And the Band Played On by Randy Shilts (a journalist, yes, there were some back in the day), still a very good source of information if anyone wants a quick and compelling read.
CTuttle @ 81
There is also Columbus’s sailor who gave the world syphilis. The spirochete organism was native to the Americas, but manifested as a couple of skin diseases. Contracted by one (or more) sailors on Columbus’s first voyage and brought to Europe where it mutated into a sexually transmitted form. Montezuma’s real revenge (though no comparison to the two dozen plus epidemic diseases introduced into the Americas by Europeans).
AK, if you are lurking here, please feel better.
DrDick @ 77
Yes, and he’s taking care of his elderly dad with Alzheimers. Let me check his site to see if he has posted today.
newtonusr @ 84
Well, a sore wrist and a bruised ego! He’ll be up and at’em shortly! Good to hear!!! ;-)
Ooh, RIP Joel Siegel!!! 8-(
Oh, dear, Alfred has not posted today…I hope he is okay.
OT, since I don’t know much about the topic —-
I have a new post up about food safety, if anyone wants to look. Also, our site got a re-design this week and now you can see the most recent 5 posts.
Also, my other blog was mentioned on MyDD today.
Loo Hoo. @ 96
LooHoo, look up to newtonusr’s *84. He linked to a comment from AK today in the threads.
Well, I am glad to hear that he is all right. Always a problem trying to play superman when you are over fifty. Fortunately wrists and egos heal rather quickly.
oddmommy @ 54
Double snort! Great use of the fuckery, oddmommy!
I missed you all while on vaycay. I honestly did wonder what fuckery I was missing.
Watching Dennis Miller on Fox. What an ass.
TeddySanFran @ 79
actually that was worse…..not only because it was such a bloody stupid thing to say, but because it afforded Mr & Mrs Satan the unheard of opportunity to act the part of good old reg’lar loving parents. Sickening.
One point made elsewhere: an entirely straight guy, as I presume Obama is, more likely thought Biden’s “disclosure” about his test said something about his possible marital infidelity (or perhaps even drug use — horrors!) than about the possibility they “tested together” for purposes of beginning a secret gay love relationship.
Anyone would use that opportunity, I think, to clarify why he tested.
I do think Biden’s foot-in-mouth disqualifies him for the Presidency, though.
Biden has a good plan to split Iraq into 3 seperate states. Dennis is totally against the war a debate on this would be good. Edwards has great health care and workers rights ideas. I think we need to talk about what we like about the various candidates. That and we need to get the Democrats to start stealing each others best ideas, and they need to be presured to dump their loser ideas.
Suzanne, I don’t see a link at 84.
SnarKassandra @ 98
Spiffy look. And congrats on the nice notice on MyDD.
SnarKassandra @ 97
Congrats, Cassie. You are starting to attract attention all over now.