Just off the AP wire, via MSNBC:
“The doctrine of executive privilege exists, at least in part, to protect such communications from compelled disclosure to Congress, especially where, as here, the president’s interests in maintaining confidentiality far outweigh Congress’s interests in obtaining deliberative White House communications,” Fielding said.
“Further, it remains unclear precisely how and why your committees are unable to fulfill your legislative and oversight interests without the unfettered requests you have made in your subpoenas,” Fielding said. “Put differently, there is no demonstration that the documents and information you seek by subpoena are critically important to any legislative initiatives that you may be pursuing or intending to pursue.”
Game on with regard to protecting Rover’s behind. The fact that the US Attorney firings had their genesis in the White House, and that Congress has a duty to provide oversight as to whether or not it was politicization of the positions vis-a-vis Rove’s political department and their heavy-handed minion planting at the DOJ is apparently not something that Fielding recognizes as legitimate. Not exactly a shocker, is it?
Where this goes from here? Could be a court challenge — in the form of subpoenas being issued by Congress, and then the WH challenging their validity in court. What this ultimately means: the Bush Administration is trying to run out the clock without anyone getting their hands on Rove’s copious RNC Blackberry files. Where’s a whistleblower when you need one?
(H/T to Stephen Parrish for the link.)
UPDATE: Raw Story has a statement from Sen. Leahy:
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-VT) slammed President Bush’s move.
“This is a further shift by the Bush Administration into Nixonian stonewalling and more evidence of their disdain for our system of checks and balances,” he said in a statement released to RAW STORY. “This White House cannot have it both ways. They cannot stonewall congressional investigations by refusing to provide documents and witnesses, while claiming nothing improper occurred….Increasingly, the President and Vice President feel they are above the law – in America no one is above law.”
Amen. And ThinkProgress has a statement from Rep. John Conyers:
“The President’s response to our subpoena shows an appalling disregard for the right of the people to know what is going on in their government. The executive privilege assertion is unprecedented in its breadth and scope, and even includes documents that the Adminstration previously offered to provide as part of their ‘take it or leave it’ proposal. This response indicates the reckless disrepect this Administration has for the rule of law. The charges alleged in this investigation are serious – including obstruction of justice and misleading Congress – and the White House should be as committed to this investigation as the Congress. At this point, I see only one choice in moving forward, and that is to enforce the rule of law set forth in these subpoenas.”
Amen again.



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zed?
Part V of the Cheney Files?
WH believes they have no reason to answer to the great unwashed american public? Color me surprised. These people disgust me.
Kagro X wrote about the next step in re the subpoenas on warrantless wiretaps. I think what he wrote applies here too.
(((((((Jane! All Day)))))))
It’s still OUR turn.
-Dick Cheney, President of the Fourth Branch
This may be a stupid question/comment, but won’t all these files be available to the next administration? And say, there’s a Dem coming in, wouldn’t it be possible at that point for ALL the info to be provided to not only the new congress but the new, hopefully HONEST AG and USAs as well?
Or am I an idiot?
We *heart* Jane.
Is executive privilege a firewall in criminal investigations? Is it time to start talking about specific criminal laws that have been broken?
The Dems need to push this hard and fast AND any one in the Judiciary who obstructs their access ought to be impeached. It’s time to start cleaning house!
dakine01 @ 7
Your Q above
My A: man-sized safes
I wonder if Impeachment is “still” off the table? Short of Bush and Cheney commiting a felony on live television, I doubt Pelosi will allow any Impeachment talk. If there has ever been an Administration worthy of Impeachment it is this Administration. IMHO
Okay, now things head up a notch. Wasn’t it spirderpaws that mentioned july was going to be noisy as hell for the WH? *grins*
RevDeb @ 4
A Supreme Court decision arising from the Teapot Dome scandal is one of the precedents to review as we ponder what steps Congress will undertake in connections with its investigations. What follows is a brief excerpt from a Wikipedia article about the Teapot Dome scandal:
the Administration sure provides a “target rich” environment, doesn’t it? – it’s either one crimnal act or…
if it’s not one thing, it’s another (to quote Rosanne Rosanna Danna)
dakine01 @ 7
In any normal, law-abiding administration, they would be, but one of Shrub’s first acts in office was to reverse an executive order and give presidents control over their administration’s records basically forever. No way that should be allowed to interfere with a congressional investigation, of course, but I suspect they’ll be counting on the fact that if they’re willing to continue to fight, the “old news” factor will be strong enough that Congress won’t be willing to take them to court at that point. Feh.
Interesting point made by Turley last nite on Olberman:
1. violation of FISA is a felony crime.
2. you can’t raise executive privilege in a criminal investigation.
I’m an attorney but I haven’t prosecuted a case since my days as a gun court prosecutor for a large Midwestern city, and this is outside my area, but is that basically correct? I respect Turley but how does this work exactly?
Congress’ investigation isn’t technically a criminal one, right? They can’t put anyone in jail but what they uncover could.
But how, without a special pros would any criminal investigation of this happen with Fredo in charge? Even Aschroft had the integrity to begin the Flame investigation, something Fredo probably would have avoided.
BUT THE BURNING QUESTION IN MY MIND IS: I understand that Cong’s subpoenas have to be enforced by the Justice Dept. going to court? (I assume with a rule to show cause or empaneling a GJ?)
BUT WHAT IF GONZO JUST SAYS, FUCK IT, I’M NOT DOING CONGRESS’ BIDDING, I AGREE WITH W HOUSE’S EXEC PRIVILEGE ARGUMENT AND ORDERS HIS ASSISTANTS TO DO NOTHING? WHAT DOES CONGRESS DO THEN TO ENFORCE THEIR SUBPOENAS?
Kinda like a modern Andy Jackson saying: “The supreme court issued this order let them enforce it…”
Cong, of course, has no enforcement power…could cut off funds to the DOJ, I suppose but I don’t think anyone has the balls for that? Could you imagine? Rove/Cheney would probably order all federal criminal defendants waiting trial released to blame Congress.
What happens if Fredo refuses to take steps to enforce the subpoena? If he just decides the matter based on his own alleged, cough cough, “interpretation” of exec privilege. We all know what a whore he is for the white house. Why would he enforce Cong’s subpoena?
CONFRONTATION AVOIDED? I’m just a dumb civil lawyer but if I was Rove, Bush, Cheney, Fredo, it’s what I’d do. Please, you federal criminal lawyer types, tell why I’m wrong. I sure hope so.
(Christy, Jane: maybe someone could expand on EXACTLY how this all works since we could all, including the media, use a refresher…)
Big hugs to Jane!
I do hope the Democrats keep pushing this. I’m afraid they will put on their wimpy shirts and head off to the beach without doing anything.
MSNBC.com has breaking news that the Supreme Court limits race in assigning schools. no link yet
Prairie Sunshine @ 8
Please look at Wikipedia’s article about United States v. Nixon for an answer to your first question: United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683 (1974)
The photo at top is an absolute perfect, no brainer pick.
I have never had such a history of the law real life lesson as what I get here. Thanks, Christy and Jane, for providing these much needed tutorials. I just wish it wasn’t so scary – I feel so unable to determine just what my civic duty is at this juncture. Protests? Some other organized action? Continue writing to elected folks? Wait it out a la Pelosi?
The HJC Subcommittee Meeting is reviewing the impact of Ledbetter v. Goodyear on the Enforcement of Civil Rights Law.
This looks like an Employment Law specialty review, which may be of interest in particular to those who are concerned with Pay Discrimination/Gender Discrimination issues.
Ledbetter brought her case approximately 20 years after the violation occured, which the Supreme Court said was ‘untimely’ – too untimely.
I won’t live-blog the meeting, but rather encourage those who are interested to go to the HJC site and connect via RealPlayer:
http://judiciary.house.gov/Schedule.aspx
RealWorld @ 9
Spot on! Nancy, it’s time to put this back on the table. Actually, beyond time. The arrogance and contemptible behavior of this “administration” is beyond endurance.
What is the status of Kucinich’s impeachment initiative? And whatever happened to the farewell impeachment material from the congresswoman who left in some disgrace, and whose name I can’t at the moment remember?
This is a watershed moment (well, okay, another one). Because if we/Congress lets this one go, we might as well pack it in, put on our brown shirts and fall in line.
DrenchedOtter @ 16
4th of July is coming…they certainly wouldn’t want the public thinking they were being contentious over such a patriotic vacation time.
Lily Ledbetter speaking NOW at House Judiciary. She was in the Goodyear lawsuit.
Fielding’s memo to Leahy on Executive Privelege.
JPL @ 17
Clarence Thomas takes the legs out of the programs that got him to where he is.
Alito and Roberts take a dive on stare decisis once again.
Scalia says vafanculo to minorities.
Kennedy gets to have lunch with his all Catholic BFF’s again.
-GSD
Poor Scooter.
http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/Inmat…..&y=293
-
Updates from ThinkProgress: White House refuses to answer subpoenas
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 28
Leahy’s taken the gloves off, and sounds like even Conyers has had it with ‘em too. About friggen TIME. There better be follow through used after this, this kind of defiance warrents it.
JPL at 17 — Oh, jeebus. The took the step back from Brown v. Board of Education?
Another post from ThinkProgress: Vote to defund Cheney this morning
Scary. Punched-in-the-gut scary.
Democracy is a good thing, if you can keep it.
Like sand through the hourglass…..
-GSD
Good Morning Christy, Dawgs.
Christy. THANK YOU and the whole crew for covering this nonsensical-executive bidness like a blanket.
It’s still a mystery to me how a fitz-row over the executive-privy represents the short route to corraling this bunch a bandits, but impeachment supposedly would take too long.
But I’ll take it. ANYTHING that dis-enables the deciderer and that creepy veeper!
Keep up the good work, and THANK YOU!
JPL @ 17
Here’s the link you were looking for: Court limits use of race in school admissions
Redshift @ 15
Which Executive Order can be reversed by the next President. My understanding of the EO, you are referencing was because his daddy’s papers were due to be publicly available and he didn’t want all the Iran/Contra cr*p to become public.
But I have to believe Clinton admin had access to all those papers during the ’90s so I would have to believe that the new admin will have access to BushCo papers.
Clinton people couldn’t do anything with the Bush I info because Daddy had issued pardons for Cap Weinberger and everyone as he walked out the door, effectively creating a firewall of protection for himself.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 30
Please be kidding.
1,567 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:
GAME ON is right!! By God the hubris and fascist arrogance of these bastards are gunna give the Democrats some balls…GAME ON indeed!! Now we find out if the Democrats have the smarts as well as the courage to play hardball when they have the bats, balls, gloves and the home field crowd.
Yesterday there were a couple of posts over at Daily Kos about “implied contempt” as opposed to statutory contempt… could you or one of the constitutional nerds out there give us a thumbnail about the difference and the efficacy of one over the other?
I think it is time to blow this up all the way to the SCOTUS if necessary because every single obstruction and defiance of the rule of law from now on just gives the Democrats and Democratic candidates more ammunition in ‘08…can you spell “67 vote majority” in the Senate??!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…EVEN THE WHIMPS IN CONGRESS CAN’T BACK OFF THIS ONE!!!
N=1 @ 20
THANK YOU N=1 for writing exactly what I’ve been thinking. I’ve been so freaked out about all things political that I’ve kinda been shell-shocked since the Iraq spending vote. It is very scary. America is supposed to be a country of laws, but our leaders say the laws don’t apply to them? They say our laws are all subject to interpretation and they selected the people who are going to do the interpreting. Its nothing but wrong.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 30
Christy, still no link but what has happened to the rule of law in this country. Last night Lew’s post on the Padilla trial, today’s exec. claim privilege and now the Brown V Board of Education ruling does not bode well for our future.
RevDeb @ 4
Thanks for that. Interesting. Depressing.
OT – We finally got some rain. Yayyyy. The gardener can afford to sit here a spell and catch up on a lotta reading – a-n-d stay out of the blistering heat for a change. We get drought in OH, TX gets monsoons. No global warming here, nosiree.
Speaking for all us kids in the back seat while Cheney and Bush drive straight toward the ditch (or is it a cliff?), this is taking too long.
While Congress wrestles with executive privilege (which Congress and the judiciary should summarily revoke on the basis of blatant bad behavior), to what extent can it inconvenience the operatives that the administration has planted throughout the government? To what extent can Congress review the administration’s appointments and hires?
It would be interesting to reconsider their qualifications and performance while the executive refuses to discuss the matter.
QuentinCompson @ 27
I really like the part about “Release Date: Unknown”.
JPL—I’m not seeing anything about Brown v BoE, what makes you think the ruling was based on this in particular?
Frank Probst @ 38
She’s not. Robert’s is supposedly writing the majority opinion. It is a re-direct/reinterpretaion of Brown.
So the DOJ won’t do anything. The Supreme Court leans way towards Bush and overturning precedents.
I guess that’s it, then.
The vast right wing conspiracy string pullers are working at destroying the constitution and our civil liberties from every angle – from the Executive Branch, The Congress and the SCOTUS. But, I think their arrogance has gone too far and there is no way that the American public can ignore what they are doing.
They are not even bright enought to throw us a bone now and again.
It’s going to take some time, but I think that they are going Down.
Spazeboy may need to be called SpazeCollegeMan. There is an excellent post, last night for those of you who may have missed it, containing a link to “Spazeboy’s Guide to Political Videoblogging”.
Also, there is a great video with Spazeboy and Jane.
This is from the Louisville Courier-Journal on the education case. It was a suit from Louisville that triggered the re0direct.
The Scalia Coup of 2000 will take care of this in short order.
What does a coup look like in 21st century democracies?
What does a 21st century American megalomaniac look like? The Dick and The George.
Hey. I can’t find Executive Privy in Wiki-up.
What gives?
dakine01 @ 47
Let’s see how many concurring opinions appear in that decision when it is posted on the Supreme Court’s Web site.
JPL @ 41
See Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 36 for the link.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 54
I was reading something earlier this week that the justification is to make things such that race has NO bearing at all. Rationale: everything should be totally race-neutral.
It pre-supposes that we no longer need any remedies for over turning inherent, institutional racism.
Good God. To think in my lifetime the republic has been brought down from within.
Where’s an outlaw hacker when you need one?
If they can hack into the Pentagon system, can they hack into the RNC servers and come up with Rover’s blackberry emails?
Norske @ 7:28 am -
Let’s look at inherent contempt (via Wikipedia):
Inherent contempt
Wow. I think the dam broke, or there’s been a major breach just shy of complete failure.
I think we move to propel impeachment and use it as leverage to get the documents. See Kagro X’s explainer linked upthread on possible steps; I don’t think we tippy toe with these guys any longer, since they are likely destroying evidence. We use the so-called big guns to “encourage” their willingness to participate as a co-equal branch.
No more knives to gunfights. The House impeaches and we work on fencesitters in the Senate while the House works on impeachment.
Ditto impeachment of Gonzo; if he’s impeached, we might have to find somebody else to prosecute the White House, yes?
And an “oh by the way” – Conrad Black’s case went to the jury. I see NYT makes no mention of Fitz, but the Guardian does while noting Fitz’ 0.90 batting average. Heh.
1,567 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hardin Smith:
Please engage my question at #39 above…I am of the opinion that the only way we make the corruption of the judiciary including the SCOTUS part of the political nexus in ‘08 is to take this all the way to the mat and make everyone in the arena take sides. We are gunna have a bundle of Alice In Wonderland SCOTUS decisions over the next year, we got to make the public understand the depth of the corruption of the courts and justice.
KEEP THE FAITH THERE IS NO RETREAT FROM THIS BATTLE!!
Having moved out of California, I have not direct influence on Nancy. (not in the sense that I can get her attention as a constituant). However, There is some reason she’s in on this whole thing. I don’t pretend to know what it is, but actions speak louder than words.
As I have said in previous comments, I suspect King George or King Richard have calculated “asceptable” losses (a few million) from the next terrorist attack they stage (and they did stage 9/11. They are hinting at it. My bet would be a cargo ship under the Golden Gate bridge with a few megaton nuclear weapon on it. The only terrorists are at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
If by some chance, and I have little faith in this happening, there is an 08 elelction, This mornings going on have convenced me to hold my nose and vote for Hillary.
She might be a bitch, but she’s our bitch.
Here is a different take on the education ruling made today. Here in NYC, I believe they were waiting to hear these results to determine the status of a prospective entrant into a specialized junior high school in Brooklyn (which, btw, I attended a l-o-n-g time ago).
In the case in question, the prospective entrant was an (asian) Indian girl who was being denied entrance because she WASN’T white. It seeem that this school required 60% of it’s students to be white, a requirement that was established to ASSIST enrollment by minorities.
A little irony for a Thursday morning.
-MS
I see Fred is trying the “no legislative purpose” route again. That dog wont hunt (we shoud get used to these colorful aphorisms if the other Fred is gonna get serious about running for Prez). Congress has an oversight role irrespective of the potential for legislation. Read it and weep, fellas McGrain v Daugherty
Maybe I’m missing something, but how can they claim executive priviledge regarding this issue in the same breath they claim that the WH was not involved and nothing improper happened? WTf, if you had nothing to do with it then why do you need to hide behind executive priviledge?
Norske — I’m juggling about 80 things at once at the moment (including visiting in-laws along with the blogging and a ringing phone) — please be patient.
The coup d’etat by Bush/Cheney is complete. The 2008 candidates should stop spending their money.
This is from last Thursday in the Courier-Journal It provides some background analysis and speculation on the ruling I referenced above.
demi @ 49
On the other hand, I agree with Demi. No plan is so perfect that it can succeede in the face of the American people. A government that sets itself against its own people cannot survive.
Pretty much everyone at Justice down to the doorman has said they were not responsible for initiating the firing list. That leaves Karl Rove or the Tooth Fairy.
The use of language is important. I think the R’s have been much better at this than the Dems for so long, but I like the way Leahy is using the term “Nixonian” to describe the way Bushco is stonewalling.
These punks are all former Nixon youth. I was so frustrated when Kerry and Gore failed to make that connection during 2000 and 2004. Nixon should still be poison for the Republicans, but the Dems have to some extent failed to use that legacy to beat the Republicans over the head. It’s not too late. Keep linking this crowd with Nixon.
Behind closed doors, to prep for the next round, Congress should immediately get information and interviews from
1. the telecom execs, under oath, about what they were ordered to do in the wiretapping cases
2. Every exec of every energy company at the time of the Cheney task force, to find out if they participated, and what was said, all under oath.
Individuals do not possess the same incentives to stonewall as the administration, or the same resources. They are less likely to feel comfortable with assurances that criminal prosecution of perjury or contempt is not going to happen.
jim oconnor @ 71
Agreed. It has to be “Nixon, Nixon, Nixon” and “worse than Nixon” the rest of the way.
Adie @ 53
wiki on Executive Privilege
While I was looking at Wikipedia’s comments about contempt of Congress, I found some pertinent comments about Congressional subpoenas:
Contempt of Congress
Ipeachment. It’s the new orange. They want to play this fucking game?
Hard-fucking-ball. No more screwing around. Fielding and his master, Rove, just upped the ante.
All is fair in love and impeachment, no claims of “Executive Privilege” survive. Screw Nancy Pelosi and her DLC ideas of leading from the middle, to paraphrase our less-sane republican brethren, “the Consitution is not a suicide pact” well neither is being “reasonable”. Our republic got promised a goodnight kiss is getting fisted instead.
Time to get busy and earn those salaries congress, or we’ll find folks who will.
1,567 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Patriots:
Don’t dispair of Mrs. Clinton and the White House…latest poll in New Hampshire has AL GORE leadin’ all comers!!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE GOD DAMNED AMMUNITION, WE GUNNA FIGHT THIS TIME!!
Hey, Redd. Anything we can do for ya? Sounds like you got yer hands full.
The Oath of Office for the President is prescribed in the Constitution. “…to Protect and Defend the Constitution of the United States of America.”
Too bad Junior has never been held accountable for any promise he’s ever made in his entire life, isn’t it?
Kind of predictable though, wasn’t it?
Scotus also set aside an antitrust law that prevented minimum pricing agreements. Kennedy said that minimum pricing can actually promote competition. The ruling overturned a 1911 Supreme Court decision.
Much of the American populace is in a zombified Paris Hiltonesque state.
As long as American Idle stays on, as long as the laptops, cell-phones, blackberries and X-Box’s keep working and the McDonalds stay open they’ll be happy.
If that is our back-up, we’s in deep shit.
-GSD
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 59
Or you could try Contempt of Congress.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 66
No one, Christy, should “demand” that you respond to them, on their timetable or any other.
bushie-gate.
bushie-gate.
bushie-, bushie-, bushie-gate.
Say it along with me.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 61
Unfortunately, Citizen Norsk Flamethrower is right. There is no retreate from this battle. We might have been scared out of our minds on the ground in Vietnam, but we did what we had to. This is a much more important battle, and we must do what we have to.
Bush: “Impeach me or shut up”.
I think I might stop writing here. Who knows how they will deal with dissent in the new America come 2009.
Bush v. Gore opened my eyes to the fact that the Supreme Court is just another institution where might makes right.
Most of the Justices, most notoriously Scalia, are simply pols in black robes.
From Fielding’s letter to Congress:
My bold. What kind of grammar is that?
TiredFed—
I’ll bet she could use help researching the implications of the SCOTUS education ruling.
TiredFed @ 63
Yeah, nice try by Fielding, can almost hear Bush swearing and saying in his garbled fashion, Gawddamitallsonavabitchin’ Congressional Democrat should be doin’ ther jobs… But this is their job — and November 2006 gave them a mandate to do it.
my too sense @ 64
I think Stephen Parrish CPA was implying upthread that there is no executive privilege in the case of criminal activity. We are in a bit of a bind that must be resolved; somebody in the White House needs to be charged with criminal obstruction in a criminal case to overcome the executive privilege claims entirely, or we’ll have to continue to slog it out via Congress and the courts (and we aren’t going to trust this SCOTUS a bit). But getting a criminal prosecution out of a corrupted DOJ is going to be like pulling teeth; I wonder how we get to a different venue besides DC in order to get around Orrin Hatch’s little buddy and U.S. Attorney for Washington DC Jeff Taylor?
TiredFed @ 64
What do you think of the Eastland decision to which I alluded in my 7:43 am comment?
Until it sinks in completely for everyone with a television set, Nixon’s name should be uttered in every sentence referencing Bush.
And Fielding’s employment with Nixon should be mentioned in every discussion of his representation of Bush. Must take a lot of Dewars to dull this guy’s conscience.
To have this news come down on the same day as these reprehensible SCOTUS decisions is about as sobering as it gets in our democracy.
dumbya @ 16
TO: 87.You are sadly and completely correct about 2000. The true overtaking of our country, complete loss in the electoral process. And now to see that “stariDecisis”, cornerstone of his confirmation hearings will write against Brown v. Board: how sad can it be? What sanction for all his lies to the confirmation committee? Hard to see how that Court will enforce subpoenas.
I missed the news about Jane, but I infer from the comments that it is time for the last push against the big-C. I would not be surprized to hear that there are healers in the audience here: I’m sure that they are working hard for her. Where would we be without our fine, smart, beautiful Jane?
Prairie Sunshine @ 10
ahh. man-sized safe = “executive privy”
and the smokin’ shredders?
RealWorld 9 – I’m with you.
IMPEACH THE LOT of em!
Puleeze Rep. Conyers, Sen. Leahy.
Pick up the BIG hammers and go for it.
Never more important, in my lifetime anyway.
Rayne @ 60-
Conrad Black trial is being closely followed in the Toronto Globe & Mail also:
http://www.reportonbusiness.com/conradblack
While Chicago media seem to have dropped the Black deliberations in favor of Family Secrets trial coverage:
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/sto…..id=5429261
plainjane @ 57
Abraham Lincoln predicted it — and the supreme irony is that it is his party that has done so.
Biodun @ 88
Deliberately chosen in order to obfuscate the plain and painful fact that the White House simply will not produce documents in response to the subpoena.
(from tpmmuckraker) — Update: And this just in from Rep. Linda Sanchez (D-CA), the chairwoman of the subcommittee that’s led the House’s investigation:
“It’s tough to get lectured on the Constitution from the same Administration that said the Vice President is his own branch of government. The fact is that the Bush Administration, which has publicly declared its commitment to getting the truth on this issue, has stonewalled from the beginning. Mr. Fielding should understand two things: that nobody in their right mind would accept a White House offer that would condone perjury, and that saying ‘take-it-or-leave-it’ for months is not actually negotiation.”
*xyz @ 73
Can I get a fourth?
mauimom @ 82
Except maybe your Peanut! She gets a hallpass on what Mauimom said. Other than that, I agree.
CHS, you are multi-tasking very well indeed.
Biodun @ 88
He may have meant to say that the White House will not produce documents in response to the subpoenas.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 13
You forgot something, despite his lip service, John Roberts doesn’t give a damn about precedent.
These racketeers in the WH are going to become more dangerous by the day as the noose tightens. It’s gonna get worse before it gets better.
I think that the Bush boys are exactly trying to run out the clock. But the view is that it’s imperative that this matter(s) regarding subversion of the rule of law and the Constitution be pursued, regardless. Even if it takes ten years, or whatever, after this bunch has left the scene. What we do about the Rove lawlessness matters in terms of what message we want to send to successive presidential administrations, the rest of the world, and not least of which, our children’s kids.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 31
I am sick with the thought that, long after I’m dead, the US will still be digging out of this f*cking hole!
dakine01 @ 74
i know, i know. just a lame joke is all t’was, but thanks.
carry on. nothing to see here.
Biodun @ 88
Fieldian-speak
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 74
When are you going to quit messing around and go to law school, Stephen?? ;-)
grape_crush @ 82
I did:)
This is another beaut from Fielding’s letter:
Any guesses on how SCOTUS would rule if college admissions and legacies came before the court.
Other Pat @ 100
Ouch! but I do like the way she thinks.
Christy.
That picture is just an abomination – makes my blood boil.
Are you trying to incite rebellion?
If so. It’s working.
QuentinCompson @ 28
hoho. that’s on my list of favorites now!
egregious @ 89
could make for a nice lunch! will get right on it.
Is it curious that Fielding responded so quickly? This isn’t a stall tactic, he had another week to do this, and it isn’t even Friday!
TiredFed @ 64
Leahy anticipated this with the wiretapping subpoenas. See Marcy’s take on it. Update IV.
Shorter Leahy: You get no new FISA changes until you hand over the documents
TiredFed—
Hey, we know how to have fun :)
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 91
wish this was IM so I could hear a beep when someone asks me a question. Sorry, Stephen. Just saw this now. Will think on it a bit and get back to you.
JPL @ 80
That is really disturbing as well. Given the way that food prices are rising because of fuel costs throughout the production cycle and other factors it makes me wonder if economic collapse is closer than we all think (or would like to admit).
TomJ @ 118
forestalling, perchance?
dakine01 @ 37
now why would Fred Thompson reverse W (WPE)’s EO?
JPL @ 113
Gotta protect the rich white christian men!
Rayne @ 110
Since I received my master’s degree (in accounting) nearly forty years ago (I was nineteen when I received my math degree), might I be too old (and have I been away from the academic world for too long?) to be a professional student? :)
1,567 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Oklahoma Kiddo and the Firepup Patriots:
“…it’s imperative that this matter(s) regarding subversion of the rule of law be pursued, regardless.”
Yes indeed and, ultimately the only way to take down systemic lawlessness is through the political process and the ballot box. The Democrats hafta take this all the way no matter the short term outcome, because the reality of this fascist administration and every single apologist for it can only be eradicated by a righteously empowered electorate. These Nazi wannabees are gunna rue the day they woke up the people of this country.
Hey kiddo…can you imagine 67 Democratic votes in the Senate??!! HOOO-AH!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND SHOW NO MERCY!!
This constitutional crisis is different from Nixon.
Nixon wanted his way, but he did not have contempt for the country or the government.
Bush doesn’t give a shit. He is willing to burn the house down, and he may have judicial flunkies who will enable him to do it.
Stare deceased.
-GSD
Turley said on Olberman that if congress claims it’s investigating a potential CRIME- then the executive privilege claim goes out the window. Could the brilliant Bush staff FORCE congress into an impeachment mode? What fuckin idiots!!
GSD @ 129
no sh*t.
rwcole @ 130
go! go! go! go!
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 104
I heard an interesting report on NPR this AM saying that Scalia is complaining that Roberts is being dishonest in saying that he is not overturning precedent and that he should just come out and say: “Yes, we’re overturning precedent.” Even Scalia is complaining…
NorskeFlamethrower @ 39
I think it should be clear by now that we need to avoid going to the Supreme Court for ANYTHING. (Sorry for yelling.) Impeachment is the only safe route. No role for SCOTUS in imeachments (unless they want to overturn a unanimous Rhenquist court ruling) other than having the Chief Justice preside when it’s W(WPE)’s turn.
TiredFed @ 121
What is this about no legislative purpose? You might also want to look at the Morrison decision to which Wikipedia alluded that I mentioned in my comment.
Re: SCOTUS and race in schools, another 5-4 ruling, and Kennedy (the swing vote on this SCOTUS) fudges:
TiredFed @ 64
that phrase was what jumped out at me too.
there must be some reason for this BS – since fred knows that the subpoenas are in support of investigations into potentially illegal acts.
does congress need to start an impeachment investigation to make that point clear? or do you expect that the courts would support a committee investigation as in the court case you cite?
Is there a scenerio in which the vice-president (Cheney) might be the one counting electoral votes in the 2008 election?
TiredFed
You never need to apologize for yelling when you’re talking impeachment. ;->
They are daring the majority to impeach … knowing full well that our so-called leadership doesn’t have the balls.
How much more democracy are we willing to give away? is there any left?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 137
gee. thanks for the bucket a’ cold water, fella.
who was that masked man?!
I think I wrote my first angry letter to a Senator to Patrick Leahy when he announced that he would be voting for John Roberts. At the time, Leahy said he would be taking a wait and see attitude on whether Roberts was being honest in his answers and on whether Roberts would respect precedent. I think Leahy has gotten his answer.
Actions have consequences and it still really gripes me that Democrats such as Leahy refused to mount any opposition when they were in the minority. The Roberts court is a self-inflicted wound. Roberts was praised by everyone Republican and Democrat for his eloquence and legal expertise, but if you have ever read a Roberts opinion, it is one of the most hackneyed pieces of distorted and contorted reasoning you will ever see. It is an exercise in not seeing the forest for the trees. I expect the Louisville case to be no different.
And I really really like this one from AP:
btw, Pat Leahy will need to call Director Mueller to clear the road to the White House. After that scene at Ashcroft’s bedside, it is sounding more and more like Mueller is one of the good guys. The Senate Sergeant at Arms is gonna need someone to run interference for him with the Secret Service (they are in DHS now) when he goes to arrest Messrs Bolton and Addington (and perhaps Rove, Cheney and, eventually Bush). Best to plan ahead, boys and girls.
Kennedy tries to come sounding like he didn’t do what he just did.
Another moral coward.
-GSD
Why use the firing of US attorney’s as a test case for Executive Privledge? This case stinks of politics and is a hard sell to defend to the American Public. The Democrats on the other hand have picked a good place to make their stand. That plus a complex trial issue like this favors us, because we discus the various legal issues here and those who know something about the case educate those who don’t know. Plus we can try out our ideas, arguments on each other before we go out and discus this in public. Now if we could only measure how much effect Lefty blogs have on shaping public opinion by increasing the numbers of people better than MSM educated is having. Amoung people who watch the news and talk about these issues people who also read lefty blogs that encourage comments will have an edge in political discusions amoung the general public. Free Thinking enabled by Disent vs Unity of purpose Achieved through Repetition of Message. Who will win this round in the constant battle for freedom?
Siun @ 139
sh-h-h. try this…
just keep complimenting them for their courage and make.it.so. (even if that means having to spell it out, every step of the way)
[not kidding. it’s been known to work wonders]
Siun @ 140
This in-your-face stuff is so offensive. More ofensive however, is my party’s gross lack of courage. ;0)
quick question: Fielding’s letter deals with Harriet M. and Sara whoever, not the most recent subpoenas, right?
So, is this reply testing the waters for yesterday’s subpoenas of Cheney, et al?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 138
I think not, but I think it would be a good idea to search for an answer to your question. When time permits, I will see what I can find out.
Adie @ 141
;0)
Siun @ 140
At this point, in light of the crimes uncovered and the popular disapproval for the Bush administration, it actually will do the Democrats far more political damage if they do NOT use the power of impeachment.
Extraordinary times require extraordinary measures.
The American public realizes this.
Does the Democratic leadership?
I see your WH Gives Congress the Finger header and suggest the next one can be
SCOTUS gives Brown v Board the Finger
What are they thinking?!! A macaca moment for Roberts and Alito and the Con-5.
GSD @ 144
anyone see Jon Stewart last night with his twirling Kennedy indicator arrow, ticking off recent decisions?
things come undone @ 146
Looking at all the scandals and investigations this Administration is facing and likely to face, I think they have decided on a scorched earth policy and will contest everything as long as they can. It is now all about running out the clock.
Fresh thread on the SCOTUS decisions.
Siun @ 140
i don’t know why they won’t even start impeachment investigations.
do they not care? or is it they think we don’t care?
MSM ignores the administrations contempt for the rule of law. A lot has changed since the watergate era.
New thread re the macaca court [my label]
from Christy….
Biodun @ 141
Yeah, but what about that brain muscle that he never excercises? When he’s sitting in a vegetative state later on, it won’t matter how young he feels.
Biodun @ 136
things come undone @ 146
The subpoenas under discussion are for the “warrantless wire-tapping” case not the US Attorney firings. I’m guessing that the fired US Attorneys will be touched on, but they’re a side dish not the main course of this investigation
TiredFed @ 134
impeachment isn’t safe either… but everything else looks worse. especially SCOTUS.
what does that mean, “enforce the rule law”?
what do they plan on doing, arresting them?
the only “enforcing the rule of law” I can see is IMPEACHMENT
be still my heart
Adie @ 154
yes. That was priceless.
Leahy even used the “N” word here (Nixonian), and good on him! It’s time to call a crook a crook, to his face. Unfortunately, a court case might go all the way to SCOTUS, and Bush has already packed that with his allies.
Hugh @ 155
Sure but that means their desperate they protect themselves now by running out the clock. But unless a Republican is our next president and stops this investigation then the concept of Executive Priviledge is going to take a beating. This case is a loser for Executive Priviledge long term it hurts the GOP. We can impeach Bush on other grounds all we need is for Congress to stop channeling Nevile Chamberlane.
JPL @ 80
so much for respecting precedent, eh? those confirmation hearings are now showing themselves to be the shams we thought they were…
tiredfed@134
Okay, goddess of naivete here. I apparently spaced that SCOTUS is not part of impeachment. What might that scary little cabal of 5 be doing about that even as we debate here? Because my observation is that the Repubs have been brilliant at pre-emptive positioning across the board — executive, legislative and judicial branches, as well as The Fourth Branch. It’s a Mobius situation, near as I can tell, unless there’s a way to bypass SCOTUS. Tick. Tick. Tick.
The cynic in me says that regardless of legal precedent, Constitutional or otherwise, in the end it comes down to Congress’ determination to expose & hold accountable the WH. And from what I’ve seen in the past, that determination is sorely lacking.
This will be exhibition match for 6 or 8 rounds, with a few unscripted punches leaving a few small bruises. When it’s over, both fighters will return to the common locker room, and the audience will return to their cottages & bigscreens.
frankly said, this business of the right of presidential confidentiality is bullshit. given what the white house has done over the past six and a half year that right has surely been forfeited.
Brisingamen @ 162
Thanks I should read things more carefully. Still wiretapping is an even harder sell to defend to the American people. Sure wiretapping a few Arabs wouldn’t register any concern. But wiretapping peace groups? enviromental groups? probably the Lefty blogs we are the 70% of America that already doesn’t like the war. Ussing this as a test case for Executive Privledge might just sink that concept.
OldCoastie @ 14
it’s always SOMETHING!
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 91
I like the fact that the case clearly outlines the power of Congress to conduct investigations, but since the case involved a dispute between the Senate and a private concern (a bank), it may be argued that it is not directly on point when the issue is a dispute between two branches of the Federal govt. but then, IANAL.
Citizen Jane @ 122
they are working their way back to the 19th century. hold on gang, we’re almost there!
Man, Bush really looks comfortable giving the finger in that picture. He’s a natural.
things come undone @ 146
oh, I don’t know. I kinda think the illegal wiretapping scandal is much easier to understand. THEY ARE SPYING ON YOU! Much more effective than “they are politicizing the Justice Department.”
selise @ 163
true enough. still need 67 votes in the Senate to convict, but they have unfettered subpoena power, the ability to arrest and confine for contempt until answers are forthcoming, etc. it may come to that. but there are many steps in between. I see a knock on the door (hopefully in the middle of the night) coming soon.
TiredFed @ 174
Turley and Dean are unmistakably stating that BushCo is F*CKED.
I think SJC will be crossing the “T’s” and dotting the “i’s” and we’ll have a full head- on confrontation through July & August … oh no, will Bush be too busy to do any shrub harvesting …
some final thoughts on this thread. my sense is that it may be in the best interests of the Administration to come clean before impeachment proceedings begin. If they do, they can take the issue, whatever it is, to the Supreme Court and they will win, no question. But in an impeachment proceeding, the Supreme Court does not have a role. If they overturn that idea (and there are unanimous decisions on point), there would be grounds for impeaching a justice or two. We may just see whether this little piece of paper we call a Constitution really works, folks.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 31
>
selise @ 137
See my comment at 60 — time to pull out the big guns and quit screwing around.
I’ll bet that executive privilege also goes out the door if documents are demanded as part of an investigation underlying impeachment proceedings — would be a conflict.
Brisingamen @ 162
We’re way EPU’d here, but the Fielding letter refusing to provide the info is for the US Attorneys. The wriretapping subpoenas just went out yesterday. Why? Just because they can and I think they are using the US Attorneys refusal just to set a precident for the wiretapping.
Here’s how to explain impeachment in the MSM:
Bush committed a crime. If he embezzled money, would you want that investigated, or would the DOJ to just leave it alone? He committed a crime and it deserves to be investigate. Impeachment is the first step in an investigation. He is innocent until proven guilty.
The way they are behaving makes it clear that they are never leaving unless we drag them out kicking and screaming.
thanks Rayne and TiredFed. just wanted to let you know i saw your responses and appreciate them.
jim oconnor @ 71
Nixon is the hero of the right. Do you think I am kidding? Think back to Schwartzennegger’s speech at the Republican National Convention. He explicitly said that he became a Republican because he so admired Nixon. And the crowd cheered wildly.
“… and tell ‘em Big Mitch sent ya!”
RevDeb @ 4
Interesting read about “inherent subpoenas”….
Wonder if that’s one of the directions of this whole proceeding….
rwcole @ 130
As so frequently happens, I try to read all of the comments before I put in my two cents. As usual, I come up with someone saying exactly what was on my mind, but more succinctly than I would have said it.
RealWorld @ 133
Here’s the NY Times article on which that report was based. (Free registration req’d.)
things come undone @ 172
How does the release of the CIA’s “Family Jewels” play into this? Just wondering.
That image is iconic – Chimpy proudly displaying both his opinion of the American rule of law AND his IQ!
The DOJ scandal is all about the politicalization of that Department. It’s a similiar technique that the NSDAP in Germany used to unite both the State with the Party. Their intent was to blur the distinction between Party and State. It would seem this is an impeachable offense. At the very least the public should be outraged, storming the gates with pitchforks and torches. The warrantless wiretapping, however, looks like it could lead to impeachment proceedings. Enourage the Dems and even Republicans to follow the evidence and uphold the rule of law.
JPL @ 80
So much for stare decisis and so much for the idea that Kennedy might be ‘the adult in the room’ who’ll keep the nuts under control.
It appears we now have a rogue SCOTUS.
What’s the remedy for that? Impeach a bunch. How do you get there? Get enough votes in Congress in the next election or “embarrass” the current Repubs so much that they go along to keep their jobs.
A little good news here…Douglas Brinkley just called W not a lame duck President but a Dead-duck President. Time to hit him while he’s down. Dead duck has a nice sound doesn’t it.
Prairie Sunshine @ 10
I think the answer is Bush Presidential Library–provided they find a place for it.