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	<title>Comments on: Late Nite FDL: The Old White Men and the Sea</title>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785726</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 13:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Was Althouse on this cruise?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Did she do the perfunctory “cruisers entertainment” by the guests on the trip? If so, perhaps she could demonstrate how she is able to “lick herself” and then explain how that’s how she knows that onion rings = *****.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was Althouse on this cruise?</p>
<p>Did she do the perfunctory “cruisers entertainment” by the guests on the trip? If so, perhaps she could demonstrate how she is able to “lick herself” and then explain how that’s how she knows that onion rings = *****.</p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785654</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-785371&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Petrocelli @ 234&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-785362&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Suzanne @ 226&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Impeachment may still be off the table.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But criminal investigation and/or charges most certainly are is my read on it.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think Leahy, Whitehouse &amp; Co. are going at BushCo hammer and tongs because they want this fight to go exactly where it’s heading.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A-yep.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-785371"><em>Petrocelli @ 234</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-785362"><em>Suzanne @ 226</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Impeachment may still be off the table.</p>
<p>But criminal investigation and/or charges most certainly are is my read on it.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think Leahy, Whitehouse &amp; Co. are going at BushCo hammer and tongs because they want this fight to go exactly where it’s heading.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>A-yep.</p>
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		<title>By: JD21</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785615</link>
		<dc:creator>JD21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sorry to go off topic but this is getting my goat.  Rupert Murdoch threatens to take over one of America’s most venerable and honest news institutions, the Wall Street Journal.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I for one am canceling my online subscription to the Wall Street Journal if the Bancroft family sells out to the right-wing billionaire Rupert Murdoch.  Conservatives complain incessantly about liberal billionaires like Soros lurking in the shadows.  Yet somehow Republicans are unable to pinpoint Soros’ levers that exercise anywhere near the influence of the national Fox News Network and the rest of the Murdoch media empire. Despite Soros’ alleged manipulations, Republicans have been quite successful in getting themselves elected until the last election when their incompetence and corruption were just too much for voters to continue to stomach.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is it a coincidence that the Bush Republican’s rise coincided with Murdoch’s dominance of the media?  Murdoch’s Fox Network famously called the 2000 election in favor of the Republican candidate, causing all the other networks to follow suit.  Only later after the impact of the Democratic candidate being the underdog was felt did Fox News admit that it had no basis at all to call the election and, indeed, was suspiciously on the phone with Republican campaign officials that night.  In the next Presidential election Fox parroted dubious smears to the Democratic candidate from a partisan group with murky origins (the Swifties).  A documentary on Fox showed how these actions were not a coincidence and how the “news” network circulated daily memos instructing their broadcasters on which party line of the day to tow, such as the Democratic Presidential candidate being a “flip flopper.”  Indeed, a Fox News alum has taken the top media position within the White House itself.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Murdoch himself has slipped in publicly admitting that he used his network to try to manipulate the country concerning the war in Iraq.  Murdoch is not interesting in the goal of reporting the news to reveal the truth, but rather in the goal of using the news as a tool to manipulate the public to promote his right-wing agenda.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In short, Murdoch’s claim that he will be non-partisan in taking over the Wall Street Journal is not credible.  He has made similar promises before only to reneg.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to go off topic but this is getting my goat.  Rupert Murdoch threatens to take over one of America’s most venerable and honest news institutions, the Wall Street Journal.</p>
<p>I for one am canceling my online subscription to the Wall Street Journal if the Bancroft family sells out to the right-wing billionaire Rupert Murdoch.  Conservatives complain incessantly about liberal billionaires like Soros lurking in the shadows.  Yet somehow Republicans are unable to pinpoint Soros’ levers that exercise anywhere near the influence of the national Fox News Network and the rest of the Murdoch media empire. Despite Soros’ alleged manipulations, Republicans have been quite successful in getting themselves elected until the last election when their incompetence and corruption were just too much for voters to continue to stomach.  </p>
<p>Is it a coincidence that the Bush Republican’s rise coincided with Murdoch’s dominance of the media?  Murdoch’s Fox Network famously called the 2000 election in favor of the Republican candidate, causing all the other networks to follow suit.  Only later after the impact of the Democratic candidate being the underdog was felt did Fox News admit that it had no basis at all to call the election and, indeed, was suspiciously on the phone with Republican campaign officials that night.  In the next Presidential election Fox parroted dubious smears to the Democratic candidate from a partisan group with murky origins (the Swifties).  A documentary on Fox showed how these actions were not a coincidence and how the “news” network circulated daily memos instructing their broadcasters on which party line of the day to tow, such as the Democratic Presidential candidate being a “flip flopper.”  Indeed, a Fox News alum has taken the top media position within the White House itself.</p>
<p>Murdoch himself has slipped in publicly admitting that he used his network to try to manipulate the country concerning the war in Iraq.  Murdoch is not interesting in the goal of reporting the news to reveal the truth, but rather in the goal of using the news as a tool to manipulate the public to promote his right-wing agenda.</p>
<p>In short, Murdoch’s claim that he will be non-partisan in taking over the Wall Street Journal is not credible.  He has made similar promises before only to reneg.</p>
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		<title>By: neokneme</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785411</link>
		<dc:creator>neokneme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 05:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785411</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And now… a word from our &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/11/fdl-book-salon-us-v-bush-et-al/#comment-500740&quot;&gt;sponsor&lt;/a&gt;..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;  Christy Hardin Smith   says:&lt;br /&gt;
February 11th, 2007 at 2:26 pm&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Betsy at 27 — I think that is one of the things that most appalls me about this entire mess: the brazen in-your-face conduct and the fact that the members of Congress have failed to stand up and act in the way the Constitution mandates that they ought to act. The fact that Bruce Fein gets this, that Bob Barr gets this — and perhaps it is their past work for the DoJ that colors their vision on this — but truly, this has been such a monumental shift in perspective from protecting the long-term rule of law and the solidity of the American foundations of government to the short-term grab at power and to hell with any consequences.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That it is not recognized for the brazen selfish behavior that it is…well, it’s just beyond me. Bt if it is recognized as such, and memebrs of Congress fail to act on that repeatedly, then shame on them. And shame on any of us who tolerate it.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And now… a word from our <a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/11/fdl-book-salon-us-v-bush-et-al/#comment-500740">sponsor</a>..</p>
<blockquote><p>  Christy Hardin Smith   says:<br />
February 11th, 2007 at 2:26 pm</p>
<p>Betsy at 27 — I think that is one of the things that most appalls me about this entire mess: the brazen in-your-face conduct and the fact that the members of Congress have failed to stand up and act in the way the Constitution mandates that they ought to act. The fact that Bruce Fein gets this, that Bob Barr gets this — and perhaps it is their past work for the DoJ that colors their vision on this — but truly, this has been such a monumental shift in perspective from protecting the long-term rule of law and the solidity of the American foundations of government to the short-term grab at power and to hell with any consequences.</p>
<p>That it is not recognized for the brazen selfish behavior that it is…well, it’s just beyond me. Bt if it is recognized as such, and memebrs of Congress fail to act on that repeatedly, then shame on them. And shame on any of us who tolerate it.
</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: neokneme</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785401</link>
		<dc:creator>neokneme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 05:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785401</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A visit to the past…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;  Elizabeth de la Vega  says:&lt;br /&gt;
February 11th, 2007 at 2:07 pm&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Terry Olson @ 2&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    Elizabeth,&lt;br /&gt;
    Welcome and thanks for stopping by. I thoroughly enjoyed your book and got one for my brother for Christmas too.&lt;br /&gt;
    My question is this: Why do you think Pelosi said that impeachment is off the table?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That is an outstanding question. I have a lot of respect for Nancy Pelosi. She was certainly not in a position –especially given that if Bush and Cheney were ever actually removed from office she would be the President– to spearhead the effort, but I think her word choice was unfortunate. More important, as Molly Ivins says “we are the deciders” and people should continue to speak out for what they believe is right. It appears that we have to lead Congress these days.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A visit to the past…</p>
<blockquote><p>  Elizabeth de la Vega  says:<br />
February 11th, 2007 at 2:07 pm</p>
<p>Terry Olson @ 2</p>
<p>    Elizabeth,<br />
    Welcome and thanks for stopping by. I thoroughly enjoyed your book and got one for my brother for Christmas too.<br />
    My question is this: Why do you think Pelosi said that impeachment is off the table?</p>
<p>That is an outstanding question. I have a lot of respect for Nancy Pelosi. She was certainly not in a position –especially given that if Bush and Cheney were ever actually removed from office she would be the President– to spearhead the effort, but I think her word choice was unfortunate. More important, as Molly Ivins says “we are the deciders” and people should continue to speak out for what they believe is right. It appears that we have to lead Congress these days.
</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: GSD</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785399</link>
		<dc:creator>GSD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 05:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785399</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks AK.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Fleshed out quite well.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-GSD&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks AK.</p>
<p>Fleshed out quite well.</p>
<p>-GSD</p>
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		<title>By: montag</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785390</link>
		<dc:creator>montag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 05:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785390</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-785377&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;TeddySanFran @ 237&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
And Jonathan Turley pointed out on Countdown tonite that there ain’t no executive privilege for criminal investigations. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
 “Sorry, Mr Cheney.  Sorry, Mr Bush.  We aren’t asking questions; we’re investigating CRIMES.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m pretty sure this is Pat Leahy’s plan around ExecPriv.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Only one problem with that strategy. Congress can’t prosecute. They can only refer cases to Justice for prosecution, based on evidence uncovered in hearings, etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And that’s where Seedy Gonzales comes in with his “I’m the President’s lawyer” routine. The real problem with these guys is that they have absolutely no shame. They’ll sit on prosecutions they should be doing until they run out the clock. I just can’t see Seedy appointing a special prosecutor–except one that’s in the bag for Bush.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-785377"><em>TeddySanFran @ 237</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>
And Jonathan Turley pointed out on Countdown tonite that there ain’t no executive privilege for criminal investigations. </p>
<blockquote><p>
 “Sorry, Mr Cheney.  Sorry, Mr Bush.  We aren’t asking questions; we’re investigating CRIMES.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’m pretty sure this is Pat Leahy’s plan around ExecPriv.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Only one problem with that strategy. Congress can’t prosecute. They can only refer cases to Justice for prosecution, based on evidence uncovered in hearings, etc.</p>
<p>And that’s where Seedy Gonzales comes in with his “I’m the President’s lawyer” routine. The real problem with these guys is that they have absolutely no shame. They’ll sit on prosecutions they should be doing until they run out the clock. I just can’t see Seedy appointing a special prosecutor–except one that’s in the bag for Bush.</p>
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		<title>By: Alfred Kelgarries</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785383</link>
		<dc:creator>Alfred Kelgarries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 05:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785383</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-785365&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;GSD @ 229&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Hey AK,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Do the recent legal troubles of Prince Bandar, a/k/a Bandar Boosh figure in to the mix.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It seems I recall that Bandar had been working behind the scenes to make war with Iran happen.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now we have reports that the US is opening an investigation into BAE and Bandar.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-GSD&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I suspect this is more of the same that my article (ghod it feels weird to say that…) Cui Bono details, namely warning shots across the bow of the Second Government. Prince Bandar has been Cheney’s best friend forever for almost the entire administration and even before. He was deeply trusted by the old king, but not the new one. The new one rightly suspects that Bandar would like to end his days as King of Saudi Arabia, and with a little help from Co-President Cheney, he might just do that. The reason for the bribes is quite simple: they were required for BAE to be able to compete for Saudi Business. And they were what, 2 billion over 20 years. That is chicken feed to a company like BAE. And besides, they added it to the markup for whatever they sold.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That doesn’t change the fact they were totally illegal. And now by allowing this inquiry to go forward (and if you check the back trail on it, Poodle quashed it once, and only had to let it come back to life in exchange for his quisling ministers not getting thrown in the tower of london for hawking memberships in the various honors lists of England like Juju Bees at a movie) Bandar will have to watch his P and Q rather tightly. If he turns into a major embarrassment for the Kingdom of Saud, he’ll be ordered home. Shortly after that, he’ll die of some unexpected malady, accident, or terrorist attack. Saudi royal retirement plans tend to be a bit abrupt, especially if you’ve screwed up big time in public.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-785365"><em>GSD @ 229</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Hey AK,</p>
<p>Do the recent legal troubles of Prince Bandar, a/k/a Bandar Boosh figure in to the mix.</p>
<p>It seems I recall that Bandar had been working behind the scenes to make war with Iran happen.</p>
<p>Now we have reports that the US is opening an investigation into BAE and Bandar.</p>
<p>-GSD</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I suspect this is more of the same that my article (ghod it feels weird to say that…) Cui Bono details, namely warning shots across the bow of the Second Government. Prince Bandar has been Cheney’s best friend forever for almost the entire administration and even before. He was deeply trusted by the old king, but not the new one. The new one rightly suspects that Bandar would like to end his days as King of Saudi Arabia, and with a little help from Co-President Cheney, he might just do that. The reason for the bribes is quite simple: they were required for BAE to be able to compete for Saudi Business. And they were what, 2 billion over 20 years. That is chicken feed to a company like BAE. And besides, they added it to the markup for whatever they sold.</p>
<p>That doesn’t change the fact they were totally illegal. And now by allowing this inquiry to go forward (and if you check the back trail on it, Poodle quashed it once, and only had to let it come back to life in exchange for his quisling ministers not getting thrown in the tower of london for hawking memberships in the various honors lists of England like Juju Bees at a movie) Bandar will have to watch his P and Q rather tightly. If he turns into a major embarrassment for the Kingdom of Saud, he’ll be ordered home. Shortly after that, he’ll die of some unexpected malady, accident, or terrorist attack. Saudi royal retirement plans tend to be a bit abrupt, especially if you’ve screwed up big time in public.</p>
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		<title>By: Margot</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785382</link>
		<dc:creator>Margot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 05:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785382</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-785324&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;LowerManhattanite @ 191&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Thanks much, Margot.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You’ll see more of me soon. Workin’ on some thangs…:)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I certainly hope so! Waiting impatiently here….&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-785324"><em>LowerManhattanite @ 191</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Thanks much, Margot.</p>
<p>You’ll see more of me soon. Workin’ on some thangs…:)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I certainly hope so! Waiting impatiently here….</p>
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		<title>By: CTuttle</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785378</link>
		<dc:creator>CTuttle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 05:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/06/27/late-nite-fdl-the-old-white-men-and-the-sea/#comment-785378</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-785367&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;neokneme @ 231&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-785354&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;CTuttle @ 218&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Gasp!  Do you really think they have the Cajones to impeach!  Remember, we’re not members of any ‘organized’ party, we’re democrats!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and Emancipated Elephants… and Greens…  Just not HolyHo indys.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Gang of Sixteen [Senators willing to convict]” sounds more powerful than the “Gang of Fourteen”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Notice I had utilized the small ‘d’, I don’t like rousing sleeping dogs!  Let ‘em lie, I say…  *g*&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-785367"><em>neokneme @ 231</em></a></p>
<blockquote><blockquote><a href="#comment-785354"><em>CTuttle @ 218</em></a></p>
<p>Gasp!  Do you really think they have the Cajones to impeach!  Remember, we’re not members of any ‘organized’ party, we’re democrats!</p>
</blockquote>
<p>and Emancipated Elephants… and Greens…  Just not HolyHo indys.</p>
<p>“Gang of Sixteen [Senators willing to convict]” sounds more powerful than the “Gang of Fourteen”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Notice I had utilized the small ‘d’, I don’t like rousing sleeping dogs!  Let ‘em lie, I say…  *g*</p>
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