zunoed?

Good morning Christy! Ready to save the nation again today?

mornin’ Redd. another day, another call to my congresscritter. thank goodness it’s Elijah! I’m home for the morning but not for long. have a great day, y’all. oh, and take back our country for me, will ya?

Morning dakine. Egregious — we’ll see what we can do. *G*

Morning, Christy. It’s a wonderful day here in Indiana, where Dick Lugar, one of my senators, has FINALLY seen the light on Iraq! I know it took him a while to come around, but better late than never!

When the top high school students in the country, representing each of the 50 states, compose a letter to the President expressing their outrage at the use of torture on the part of Americans, there is hope.
When Dana P. repeats the glazed-eye mantra, “We do not torture,” there is reality.
I vote for hope.
Keep up the good fight, Presidential Scholars!

thank you christy! i would have loved to go to dc for tomorrow’s actions – it really does help to have a large number of people show up. sadly, i hurt my back a while ago and am not yet ready for such a long trip.

also today, at 2 pm, is the House Judiciary (Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties) Oversight Hearing on Habeas Corpus and Detentions at Guantanamo Bay

Thunderbird at 5 — Lugar is going to get the full-on shrieking wingnut treatment, I’m sure, so when you call his office on the habeas issue, be sure to thank him for speaking up on Iraq. Every kudo he gets will, I’m certain, be shared with others in the GOP — and that helps Lugar convince them to speak their minds as well.

Other Pat at 6 — Do you have a link on that?

Thunderbird @ 5

Morning, Christy. It’s a wonderful day here in Indiana, where Dick Lugar, one of my senators, has FINALLY seen the light on Iraq! I know it took him a while to come around, but better late than never!

wow. that IS good news (if it holds).

It’s sick that torture even has to be debated. It’s sick how this Administration and the last Congress totally screwed up our reaction to the terrorist attacks. Trillions of dollars spent, creation of DHS (what a waste of money!), war in Iraq, Bin Laden not captured, not one conviction of a terrorist in a court of law, etc., etc.

Thunderbird @ 5

Morning, Christy. It’s a wonderful day here in Indiana, where Dick Lugar, one of my senators, has FINALLY seen the light on Iraq! I know it took him a while to come around, but better late than never!

i’ve thought for some time that lugar is not crazy or stupid. that he is speaking out, i think, is much more important than any of the pretend serious foreign policy R senators (warner, macain,…)

TiredFed at 10 — Lugar gave quite a good speech about his reasoning on this on the floor of the Senate yesterday. He’s well-respected on foreign policy issues in the GOP caucus — this one is going to hurt Bush, if we can put the pressure on from it.

Wishing that the “sentence first, verdict after” notion might swiftly be applied to Scooter “what kind of a name is that for a grown man?” Libby.

Not holding my breath.

(All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others . . .)

Christy Hardin Smith @ 9

Other Pat at 6 — Do you have a link on that?

OK, I’m the most techno-challenged. I read it on Yahoo.com — went to “Politics,” then “White House.”
Go ahead and shake your head; I’ll work on my sweet computer skills.

BTW, if you are a NY reader and Jerry Nadler is your congressman, he has been fantastic on this in the House. Please be sure to thank him for all of his work on this issue. Same can be said for Leahy, Dodd and Feingold in the Senate.

Here’s the word-parsing administration at its best: If we don’t call it “torture,” then it’s not torture. It’s “interrogation of enemy combatants, plucked off the field to stop them from killing us …here.”

In addition, pen letters to the editor (email makes it so easy) of newspapers and news magazines. Folks who read these letters vote. And if you want to take the pulse of the nation, read the letters to the editor. Most newspapers can be found online. ;0)

Christy Hardin Smith @ 9

Other Pat at 6 — Do you have a link on that?

Here it is. They was Keith’s “Top 50 Newsmakers” (all of them, instead of the usual “Top 3 Newsmakers”) last night.

selise at 12 — I’m hearing that Warner is unhappy as well (and that is an understatement — I’ve heard from a couple of people that he has been livid about the decimation of the Army, Marines, reserves and national guard units the way that Rummy’s DOD failed planning has treated them). And now that he has decided not to run for re-election next year, I hope we’ll start to see him be more publicly vocal about this. I hear not having to woo wingnuts for the next election cycle can be very freeing for fact-based discussions. *g* Here’s hoping anyway…

Other Pat @ 17

Here’s the word-parsing administration at its best: If we don’t call it “torture,” then it’s not torture. It’s “interrogation of enemy combatants, plucked off the field to stop them from killing us …here.”

What about, “our troops need specific guidelines so they know how far they can go.” Why? They weren’t torturing people before.

And where was Richard over three-thousand dead American soldiesr ago?

Key GOP senator says Iraq strategy not working
In blow to Bush, Lugar calls for new approach that downsizes military’s role

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19426648/

Christy Hardin Smith @ 13

TiredFed at 10 — Lugar gave quite a good speech about his reasoning on this on the floor of the Senate yesterday. He’s well-respected on foreign policy issues in the GOP caucus — this one is going to hurt Bush, if we can put the pressure on from it.

even bigger wow. if Lugar has already gone public and is speaking out on the Senate floor, that’s pretty remarkable. he has always been held in pretty high esteem in foreign affairs (chaired the committee at least once as I recall) by both parties. this is a good sign. and it sounds like he’s trying to convince others. maybe the Republicans want their party back. sorry I’ve been out of it of late. gotta do my bit to stem the tide in certain domestic programs while everyone’s attention is on Iraq, etc.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 13

TiredFed at 10 — Lugar gave quite a good speech about his reasoning on this on the floor of the Senate yesterday. He’s well-respected on foreign policy issues in the GOP caucus — this one is going to hurt Bush, if we can put the pressure on from it.

Americablog has the transcript of the entire speech up.

Redshift @ 19

Christy Hardin Smith @ 9

Other Pat at 6 — Do you have a link on that?

Here it is. They was Keith’s “Top 50 Newsmakers” (all of them, instead of the usual “Top 3 Newsmakers”) last night.

It is also on HuffPo: Scholars Urge Bush to Ban Use of Torture

OKK at 18 — Very good point. Especially letters to the editor of local newspapers. Most folks get their news from the local paper along with little league scores and gardening tips — finding a well-reasoned, thoughful letter from someone in your own hometown carries a lot of weight with a lot of folks. (Plus, most elected reps have staffers comb through hometown op-ed pages to tally issues for them. So it’s a double dip when you write in…)

Other Pat @ 15

Christy Hardin Smith @ 9

Other Pat at 6 — Do you have a link on that?

OK, I’m the most techno-challenged. I read it on Yahoo.com — went to “Politics,” then “White House.”
Go ahead and shake your head; I’ll work on my sweet computer skills.

your algorithim worked for me! here’s the link.

GeorgeSimian @ 21

What about, “our troops need specific guidelines so they know how far they can go.” Why? They weren’t torturing people before.

Yeah, that one is especially bad. They had specific guidelines; they’re called the Geneva Conventions. The Orwellian BS of the Bush Administration is to simultaneously claim that they’re doing it because they need “specific guidance,” but they can’t say anything specific to us about what is and isn’t allowed.

Josh at Talking Points has a story about a FBI espionage investigation focusing on Chalabi and the breach of a code breaking operation. The story refers to a small number of people who had access to the highly restricted Iranian code. My initial thought is that this is linked to the Plame leak/betrayal and Cheney’s office. Am I lost in the weeds here?

The link for the letter from high schoolers presented to bush re Torture, is at Huffington Post. Top of page.

I know someone probably has beat me to this, but I need practice with linking skills. Repetition is always good on spreading info anyway. :-)

jim at 29 — Frankly, I would put nothing past either Cheney’s office or Chalabi. Especially Chalabi, who would sell his mother to the highest bidder if he thought he could get a new Rolex out of it.

Other Pat @ 6 –

Dana P. – “We do not torture”
richard nixon – i am not a crook
bill clinton – i did not have sex with that women

Redshift @ 19

Christy Hardin Smith @ 9

Other Pat at 6 — Do you have a link on that?

Here it is. They was Keith’s “Top 50 Newsmakers” (all of them, instead of the usual “Top 3 Newsmakers”) last night.

thanks for the link. Don’t you know Mr. Bush was ruffled by their candor.

This particular segment of civil rights frontiers, i.e., Habeas for foreign-sovereign individuals, reminds me of the segment pertaining to the voting rights for minorities movement, as it awakened women in the movement to their own plight.

jim oconnor @ 29

Josh at Talking Points has a story about a FBI espionage investigation focusing on Chalabi and the breach of a code breaking operation. The story refers to a small number of people who had access to the highly restricted Iranian code. My initial thought is that this is linked to the Plame leak/betrayal and Cheney’s office. Am I lost in the weeds here?

the OVP sucks at keeping real national security secrets?

jim oconnor @ 29

Josh at Talking Points has a story about a FBI espionage investigation focusing on Chalabi and the breach of a code breaking operation. The story refers to a small number of people who had access to the highly restricted Iranian code. My initial thought is that this is linked to the Plame leak/betrayal and Cheney’s office. Am I lost in the weeds here?

A little bit, probably. From what I’ve read, Chalabi appears to have learned that the US broke the Iranians codes through a slip of the tongue from a drunk US intel agent. Not sure which branch.

Of course, it is possible that the agent who let it slip didn’t have a need to know, and only learned of it through lax security at OVP. BTW, I’ve read nothing that suggests that. It seems unlikely on it’s face, but more likely the more we learn about how nearly all security leaks seem to get traced back to OVP.

So you’re probably in the weeds, but maybe not.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 20

selise at 12 — I’m hearing that Warner is unhappy as well (and that is an understatement — I’ve heard from a couple of people that he has been livid about the decimation of the Army, Marines, reserves and national guard units the way that Rummy’s DOD failed planning has treated them). And now that he has decided not to run for re-election next year, I hope we’ll start to see him be more publicly vocal about this. I hear not having to woo wingnuts for the next election cycle can be very freeing for fact-based discussions. *g* Here’s hoping anyway…

Man, I hope so. I used to respect him, but I was very disappointed in his tenure on the Armed Services Committee in the Bush Admin. Bringing Rumsfeld in for a hearing on Abu Ghraib, then… nothing. Voting for the MCA. Considering what “concern for the troops” could have done from 2002-2006 when he was in charge, if not trumped by party loyalty and re-election concerns. And the saddest thing is, considering how Virginia is trending Democratic, he probably could have gotten re-elected in ‘08 against anyone except Mark Warner if he had done the right thing and stood up to them — he hasn’t been popular with the wingnuts ever since he came out against Ollie North’s candidacy.

jim oconnor @ 29

Josh at Talking Points has a story about a FBI espionage investigation focusing on Chalabi and the breach of a code breaking operation. The story refers to a small number of people who had access to the highly restricted Iranian code. My initial thought is that this is linked to the Plame leak/betrayal and Cheney’s office. Am I lost in the weeds here?

No, you aren’t lost in the weeds. This story, however, is about an investigation the FBI started about three years ago. Let’s start with a link to Josh’s comment: link

Now click on the link leading to the story: Chalabi reportedly told Iran that U.S. broke its secret code

FWIW I’ve already gotten hold of Congressman L Smith’s office and Sen Hutchison’s office (Cornyn doesn’t open his until 9AM edt).

I’ve been polite in requesting that they vote in favor of the restoration of Habeas Corpus, then stated that it is the foundation of ALL of our righs going back to before the Magna Carta, wondered why they voted to remove the rights in the first place and in doing so, why they hate America and the Constitution so much.

I’m still not holding my breath with these idjits though.

GeorgeSimian @ 11

It’s sick that torture even has to be debated. It’s sick how this Administration and the last Congress totally screwed up our reaction to the terrorist attacks. Trillions of dollars spent, creation of DHS (what a waste of money!), war in Iraq, Bin Laden not captured, not one conviction of a terrorist in a court of law, etc., etc.

Compare that to Clinton’s reaction the first time the Twin Towers were attacked: He didn’t invade anybody, he treated it as a crime and not an excuse to pad Halliburton’s profit margins. That’s why he managed to nab the perps within six months of the crime.

Redshift at 37 — Completely agree — Warner used to at least stand up when it was needed in terms of military policy, but he simply rolled over for the Bushies, most likely because he’s a sucker for pressure from Cheney. I’ve heard that he and Cheney had some sort of falling out — but I haven’t been able to track down specifics on it. Would love the scoop, if anyone reading knows about this — supposed to have happened a few weeks back.

Warner is key to getting Dodd’s Constitutional restoration bill through Armed Services. Whatever pressure we can bring to bear on him — so that he’ll drag Graham and some of the others along with him — is time well spent. Have been trying to come up with a good leverage point on this. If anyone has ideas, I’d love to hear it.

“We are better than this.”

if “we” were, “we” wouldn’t need the reminder.

wgg — We were better than this when the nation was founded, too, and yet we had to fight a whole revolutionary war to make this point and others. Some things are worth standing up for…and it is worth a reminder to those of us who have taken them for granted that the rest of us are displeased, don’t you think?

Being a citizen requires action — passive sitting back and kvetching among ourselves doesn’t get us anywhere.

Speaking of bending congressional ears, let us look at MSNBC’s online version of part 3 of a continuing saga appearing in the Washington Post (I haven’t read late night thread comments): Guiding decision-making from the back stage

Part 3 of 4
By Jo Becker and Barton Gellman

WASHINGTON – Air Force Two touched down at the Greenbrier Valley Airport in West Virginia on Feb. 6, 2003, carrying Vice President Cheney to the annual retreat of Republican House and Senate leaders. He had come to sell them on the economic centerpiece of President Bush’s first term: a $674 billion tax cut.

Cheney had spent months making sure the package contained everything he wanted. One thing was missing.

(snip)

‘morning, all… let me get a few swigs of coffee in me and I’ll warm up my dialing finger…

did you any of you see those smart, SMART young people who gave shrub the note yesterday interviewed on CNN?

I have much hope.

Thunderbird @ 5

Morning, Christy. It’s a wonderful day here in Indiana, where Dick Lugar, one of my senators, has FINALLY seen the light on Iraq! I know it took him a while to come around, but better late than never!

If you would happen to want to stop by Lugar’s office here in Indy, I could give you the address and directions. For some reason, I know precisely where it is… *g*

I may stroll by myself today.

OldCoastie @ 45

‘morning, all… let me get a few swigs of coffee in me and I’ll warm up my dialing finger…

did you any of you see those smart, SMART young people who gave shrub the note yesterday interviewed on CNN?

I have much hope.

OK, now I get to ask: Do you have a link for the interview?

Phoenix Woman @ 40

GeorgeSimian @ 11

It’s sick that torture even has to be debated. It’s sick how this Administration and the last Congress totally screwed up our reaction to the terrorist attacks. Trillions of dollars spent, creation of DHS (what a waste of money!), war in Iraq, Bin Laden not captured, not one conviction of a terrorist in a court of law, etc., etc.

Compare that to Clinton’s reaction the first time the Twin Towers were attacked: He didn’t invade anybody, he treated it as a crime and not an excuse to pad Halliburton’s profit margins. That’s why he managed to nab the perps within six months of the crime.

Not to mention those other terrorists – the white ones who bombed Oklahoma. They were tried and convicted.

And I still think that we are better than this! is a great campaign slogan. Start with those words, and the stump speech writes itself.

A message of hope, with an unavoidable damning of Republican policies.

JGabriel @ 36

jim oconnor @ 29

My initial thought is that this is linked to the Plame leak/betrayal and Cheney’s office. Am I lost in the weeds here?

A little bit, probably. From what I’ve read, Chalabi appears to have learned that the US broke the Iranians codes through a slip of the tongue from a drunk US intel agent. Not sure which branch.

It was the Jack Daniels not the branch

The Other Pat – it was on the tv.

OldCoastie @ 51

The Other Pat – it was on the tv.

thought they might have a video of it but didn’t see one on the CNN site. Thanks.

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 38

This story, however, is about an investigation the FBI started about three years ago. Let’s start with a link to Josh’s comment: link

Now click on the link leading to the story: Chalabi reportedly told Iran that U.S. broke its secret code

Oh, Sweet Jesus. This is from the article you linked:

According to U.S. officials, the Iranian official in Baghdad, possibly not believing Chalabi’s account, sent a cable to Tehran detailing his conversation with Chalabi, using the broken code.

If you wanted to test whether a code was broken, would you send out a coded message that, if broken, would burn your source? No, instead you would list as the source someone you *wanted* to burn.

It’s possible the US has better reasons to believe the cable is legit, that they don’t want to reveai. But if that’s really their ‘evidence’, then this might be one of the few times Chalabi is actually innocent.

Christy -

Although I’m veering off topic, I think that this important BBC story merits attention: US to probe BAE over corruption

UK defence firm BAE Systems has said it is the subject of an anti-corruption probe by the US Department of Justice.

According to BAE, the probe will look at its compliance with anti-corruption laws including its business “concerning the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia”.

BAE faces allegations that it ran a fund to help it win plane and military equipment orders from Saudi Arabia.

(snip)

Earlier this month, the BBC and the Guardian newspaper reported that BAE had made payments worth hundreds of millions of pounds over a number of years to Prince Bandar, a leading member of the Saudi royal family.

According to the Guardian, the Department of Justice became interested because BAE used the US banking system to transfer regular payments to accounts controlled by Prince Bandar at Riggs Bank in Washington.

As a result, prosecutors decided that BAE could be investigated under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA).

(snip)

BBC business editor Robert Peston said that: “The Saudis will not be overjoyed that the Department of Justice is apparently taking up where the serious fraud office left off.”

He added that the US probe is “a much bigger headache” for the UK government than for BAE, and it will be Gordon Brown’s first big diplomatic dilemma as prime minister.

The BBC’s business editor explained that the al-Yamamah contract was between the British and Saudi governments, not between BAE and Saudi Arabia, and that BAE was only the contractor.

“So it will be a decision for the Ministry of Defence, not BAE, whether to disclose the details of the deal,” he said.

(snip)

Well, I’m off to jury duty in less than two hours, so I won’t be able to follow you guys until late in the day. Have a good day, pups.

Just called Sununu’s and Gregg’s offices, both seem to adhere to the same mantra of terrorists, Al Quiada and 9 /11. I think I will scream if I hear this BS again. I would expect that they have been given their talking points by the WH. It is a bushy thing to make sure truths are not spoken in courtrooms witness Noriega, Hussein, the political prisoners in Gitmo and the latest murders by hanging in Iraq.

And what’s with Dodd saying that impeaching cheney would only be a distraction? If we do not impeach the Constitution will be left in tatters. The crimes this administration are committing must be laid bare no matter how painful for the country. Sure it will be traumatic but it will be cleansing too. JMHO

An excerpt from ThinkProgress in this morning’s ThinkFast section: ThinkFast

Yesterday’s Supreme Court decisions show the new “muscle” of the conservative majority, but USA Today notes a division between the far-right justices who are “eager to overturn previous decisions” and the new Bush appointees who are “reluctant” to “completely gut court precedents.”

Good morning from L.A. Thanx for the reprint of those phone #s, CHS. When coffee finishes brewing, it’s phone time. Are there any fax #s available somewhere as well?

Good Morning… wow my name on the front page ;)

Lets see call my Senators…. would it change anything?
KO’s 6/25/2007 worst person in the world Jon Kyl has been for removing habeus for YEARS. He has been trying to insert that little clause into bills for YEARS….

AZ brand new freshman Congresscritters are a big disappointment, Giffords was inducted into the Blue Dog caucus and mine Harry Mitchell WANTED to join but was turned down…… BAAAWAAAAA they turned him down! But was told they would consider him next year…. THAT tell you how he is going to vote?

katymine @ 59

Good Morning… wow my name on the front page ;)

Lets see call my Senators…. would it change anything?
KO’s 6/25/2007 worst person in the world Jon Kyl has been for removing habeus for YEARS. He has been trying to insert that little clause into bills for YEARS….

AND then you have McCain who does not even show up to vote for anything anymore. BTW…. big contingent of Repugs have joined us in the McCain recall effort. Bunch have their pantyhose in a wad about him NOT doing his job as Senator. Cliff Schecter was here last weekend at the VA gathering signatures.

When you have Repugs saying that Clinton & Obama make votes but McCain can’t you know he has lost it here.

even if your call has no effect on the the senators in question… at least the people in his office know that people care about the issue.

nomolos @ 56

Just called Sununu’s and Gregg’s offices, both seem to adhere to the same mantra of terrorists, Al Quiada and 9 /11. I think I will scream if I hear this BS again. I would expect that they have been given their talking points by the WH. It is a bushy thing to make sure truths are not spoken in courtrooms witness Noriega, Hussein, the political prisoners in Gitmo and the latest murders by hanging in Iraq.

And what’s with Dodd saying that impeaching cheney would only be a distraction? If we do not impeach the Constitution will be left in tatters. The crimes this administration are committing must be laid bare no matter how painful for the country. Sure it will be traumatic but it will be cleansing too. JMHO

You may find Harry Shearer’s comment in HuffPo of interest: Fareed At Last

(snip)

Now (ht–Kevin Drum) Fareed writes a piece in Newsweek about the reality of the jihadist situation in the modern world:

…The split between Sunnis and Shiites — which plays a role in Lebanon as well — is only one of the divisions within the world of Islam… Rather than speaking of a single worldwide movement — which absurdly lumps together Chechen separatists in Russia, Pakistani-backed militants in India, Shiite warlords in Lebanon and Sunni jihadists in Egypt — we should be emphasizing that all these groups are distinct, with differing agendas, enemies and friends. That robs them of their claim to represent Islam. It describes them as they often are — small local gangs of misfits, hoping to attract attention through nihilism and barbarism.

Fine as far as it goes, but doesn’t one have to ask: in the face of this reality, what benefit does the Bush administration derive from ignoring such reality-based advice? Would it have something to do with advancing their fear-based argument about “the enemy” coming here? After all, if these were “small local gangs of misfits”, they would hardly pose a continuing, unique threat to the homeland that requires war without end, and government without anything except what Dick Cheney wants.

Call! And go to your hometown newspaper’s website and post an eLTE. Every bit helps.

Finally reached Cornyn’s office and gave pretty much the same spiel as I gave to Hutchison and Smith…

Stephen Parrish — excellent points in that Zakaria piece. Not only must we move opinion, we must educate.

The Presidential Scholars have shown the next generation will listen, will learn, and cares. Let’s all not let them down.

Fear cannot rule the thinking mind, only the ignorant one.

Scholars urge Bush to ban use of torture
The handwritten letter said the students “believe we have a responsibility to voice our convictions.”

“We do not want America to represent torture. We urge you to do all in your power to stop violations of the human rights of detainees, to cease illegal renditions, and to apply the Geneva Convention to all detainees, including those designated enemy combatants,” the letter said.

How did we get to this place? An inverted universe, where the perverted minds of a few steer the entire nation, and the majority is forced to rally against them (so far in vain)?

Reading that WaPo series on Cheney was disturbing. The dark space in one man’s head redefines America? Something is broken.

I’m demoralized by it all. 911 seems trivial at this point.

You know, sometimes I feel funny calling Senators Kennedy and Kerry and Congressman Frank on issues like this. I can’t imagine they wouldn’t vote for these bills.

The interesting part of these calls is in educating the people who answer the phones. NONE of them knew anything about this issue.

There I was, explaining the bills to the four people I spoke with – I asked to speak with a staffer in Senator Kerry’s office who let me know that the person who would know something was out of the office.

I never got the feeling that any of them knew what “restoring habeas” was. WTF?

Yesterday’s Supreme Court decisions show the new “muscle” of the conservative majority, but USA Today notes a division between the far-right justices who are “eager to overturn previous decisions” and the new Bush appointees who are “reluctant” to “completely gut court precedents.”

And the difference in the outcome is What?

Christy Hardin Smith @ 20

selise at 12 — I’m hearing that Warner is unhappy as well (and that is an understatement — I’ve heard from a couple of people that he has been livid about the decimation of the Army, Marines, reserves and national guard units the way that Rummy’s DOD failed planning has treated them). And now that he has decided not to run for re-election next year, I hope we’ll start to see him be more publicly vocal about this. I hear not having to woo wingnuts for the next election cycle can be very freeing for fact-based discussions. *g* Here’s hoping anyway…

And there are more than a few wingnuts in the late Jerry Falwell’s VA that must be wooed if you want the GOP nomination for anything. Years of pent up “oh, get real” might be aching to come out . . .

Yep, we can hope.

katymine @ 65

Scholars urge Bush to ban use of torture
The handwritten letter said the students “believe we have a responsibility to voice our convictions.”

“We do not want America to represent torture. We urge you to do all in your power to stop violations of the human rights of detainees, to cease illegal renditions, and to apply the Geneva Convention to all detainees, including those designated enemy combatants,” the letter said.

Tis a sad hopeful commentary that high school kids are more enlightened/knowledgeable/honest/courageous than their prez.

bg @ 68

Yesterday’s Supreme Court decisions show the new “muscle” of the conservative majority, but USA Today notes a division between the far-right justices who are “eager to overturn previous decisions” and the new Bush appointees who are “reluctant” to “completely gut court precedents.”

And the difference in the outcome is What?

Don’t know about the outcome, but the Clash of the Egos is probably at play backstage…Scalia, the SCOTUS Chee-knee, doubtless throwing his weight around trying to ram thru “his” court….

jayt @ 49

And I still think that we are better than this! is a great campaign slogan. Start with those words, and the stump speech writes itself.

A message of hope, with an unavoidable damning of Republican policies.

I like it. Let’s try leading with a right hook.
The people are tired of these candidates practicing their footwork. Christy’s already gotten in the body blows needed to soften ‘em up. It’s time to knock these bastards out.

This system of justice belongs to us all, but lawyers are officers of the court and thus ought to have a special concern for it.

If your representative or senator is a lawyer, ask how they would feel if they were representing a client that they could not speak with, if they were prohibited from pursuing their client’s case in court, if they were kept from even knowing the reason for their client’s detention.

Tell them that we are better then this.

Far better.

Hmmm… I thought the Alice in Wonderland quote was something like, “First the Verdict, Then the Trial!”…

Marie Roget @ 58

Good morning from L.A. Thanx for the reprint of those phone #s, CHS. When coffee finishes brewing, it’s phone time. Are there any fax #s available somewhere as well?

If you google your senators’or congress critters’ names, you will usually find their ofices as the first choice. Just go to their “contact me” info and a fax number is most likely showing for both the local offices as well as the DC. You can also find the phone listings for the direct numbers as well if you don’t want to go through the 800 numbers/capital switchboard.

“We are better than this” should become the rallying cry for the progressive movement…not just the slogan of a single candidate or group.

The anthem of We, the People….

And after victory in 2008, the theme of reconciliation with our better selves and the world we’ve let down.

OT – I’ll bet you guys have covered this before, so please point me to it if you don’t want to repeat yourselves…but what is it with the kabuki about Bloomberg hurting Democrats if he runs? Is it just the same old down the rabbit hole absurdity or something else?

Pop-quiz!

Who has the guts to stand up to the President of the United States on torture?

(a) A group composed of two United States Senators from each state in the nation (including one who spent years in a POW camp).

OR

(b) A group composed of two high school students from each state in the nation.

Take your time. Then ask yourself who you’d rather see on the Sunday talk shows.

Johann Hari, The New Republic (via Josh/TPM):

The audience cheers Podhoretz. The nuanced doubts of Bill Buckley leave them confused. Doesn’t he sound like the liberal media? Later, over dinner, a tablemate from Denver calls Buckley “a coward.” His wife nods and says, “Buckley’s an old man,” tapping her head with her finger to suggest dementia.

This is what it’s come to.

We now live in a world where William Fucking Buckley is considered nuanced.

T- at 77 — I think it’s Bloomberg testing the waters to see what sort of reaction ripples back, and it’s also the GOP positioning the “conventiona wisdom” on a Bloomberg run before he even declares (if he even runs). It’s kabuki, same old, same old. (Good to see you, btw!)

dakine01 @ 75

Marie Roget @ 58

Good morning from L.A. Thanx for the reprint of those phone #s, CHS. When coffee finishes brewing, it’s phone time. Are there any fax #s available somewhere as well?

If you google your senators’or congress critters’ names, you will usually find their ofices as the first choice. Just go to their “contact me” info and a fax number is most likely showing for both the local offices as well as the DC. You can also find the phone listings for the direct numbers as well if you don’t want to go through the 800 numbers/capital switchboard.

Thanks. Got ‘em. I just seemed to remember a fax # list being posted here @ FDL at some point…lost in the mists of time, I guess :-)

The GOP won’t make any moves to end this conflict or restore our rights unless they can take the credit for it. At this point, I say just let them do it…the safety of our troops and the restoration of our basic rights are more important than scoring political points.

bg @ 68

Yesterday’s Supreme Court decisions show the new “muscle” of the conservative majority, but USA Today notes a division between the far-right justices who are “eager to overturn previous decisions” and the new Bush appointees who are “reluctant” to “completely gut court precedents.”

And the difference in the outcome is What?

Though there is no difference in outcome, it might be worthwhile to look at the opinions handed down yesterday to see the reasoning behind the views expressed in the majority opinions. Although I have not yet read either the USA Today piece or the opinions, I suppose that Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito wrote joint or separate concurring opinions in which they expressed qualms about ignoring stare decisis. I do not yet know why Justices Kennedy, Scalia, and Thomas apparently overturned precedent.

Fresh thready goodness, up and ready for the reading.

I agree with CHS that doubling up (a fax or email along with the phone call) gives greater weight. The last go ’round with our calls to Congress on the Habeus Corpus, I couldn’t get the Email to my Senator, Feinstein, to work, so I put my message into a “letter” form and faxed it to her. I received a snail-mail response from her. So, there are advantages to faxing, I think!

demi at 85 — There definitely are advantages to faxing. Snail mail has to go through anthrax security, but faxes go through immediately. And knowing that you took the time to write something and send it carries some extra opinion weight.

Thanks for still fighting the good fight Christy. Your tireless efforts are historic. (btw – I sent you a great picture of some seagulls a couple of weeks ago in case you need something for your talking head thread)

I felt pretty sure that they hadn’t come up with any new tactics but wanted to get confirmation of that from the braintrust.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 86

demi at 85 — There definitely are advantages to faxing. Snail mail has to go through anthrax security, but faxes go through immediately. And knowing that you took the time to write something and send it carries some extra opinion weight.

Yes, yes. And it gives the office people an actually piece of paper to put in a folder an on to the Senator/Representative’s desk. It’s just a little more Substantial.

T- @ 77

OT – I’ll bet you guys have covered this before, so please point me to it if you don’t want to repeat yourselves…but what is it with the kabuki about Bloomberg hurting Democrats if he runs? Is it just the same old down the rabbit hole absurdity or something else?

Meh, pundits think Bloomberg will hurt Dems because his positions are more socially liberal than Republicans. Also, because they think conservatives, especially the Christian right, won’t vote for a 5′7″ Jewish billionaire from New York.

On the other hand, the few polls, so far, that factored in a Bloomberg candidacy show it hurting the Republicans.

My guess is that all things being equal, Bloomberg would get votes from independents and take votes from Pugs and Dems roughly equally. But all things aren’t equal — Dems seem to be pretty happy with their presidential choices, whereas Republicans do not.

Since Bloomberg would ultimately take more votes from whichever party is less satisfied with its candidate, the Republicans would probably lose more votes than the Dems.

At this point though, the pundits are just engaging in sheer speculation, as I just did. Bloomberg’s name recognition is way too low for the polls to mean anything at all.

JGabriel @ 89

T- @ 77

OT – I’ll bet you guys have covered this before, so please point me to it if you don’t want to repeat yourselves…but what is it with the kabuki about Bloomberg hurting Democrats if he runs? Is it just the same old down the rabbit hole absurdity or something else?

Meh, pundits think Bloomberg will hurt Dems because his positions are more socially liberal than Republicans. Also, because they think conservatives, especially the Christian right, won’t vote for a 5′7″ Jewish billionaire from New York.

On the other hand, the few polls, so far, that factored in a Bloomberg candidacy show it hurting the Republicans.

My guess is that all things being equal, Bloomberg would get votes from independents and take votes from Pugs and Dems roughly equally. But all things aren’t equal — Dems seem to be pretty happy with their presidential choices, whereas Republicans do not.

Since Bloomberg would ultimately take more votes from whichever party is less satisfied with its candidate, the Republicans would probably lose more votes than the Dems.

At this point though, the pundits are just engaging in sheer speculation, as I just did. Bloomberg’s name recognition is way too low for the polls to mean anything at all.

Speculating as well here, but all the headlines and the folks not paying attention see is that the (now former) Republic mayor from St Rudy of 9/11 land has left the Republic party. They don’t read far enough down (if it is even mentioned) to see that Bloomberg switched from D to R in order to run for mayor in the first place.

Boston1775 @ 67

You know, sometimes I feel funny calling Senators Kennedy and Kerry and Congressman Frank on issues like this. I can’t imagine they wouldn’t vote for these bills.

The interesting part of these calls is in educating the people who answer the phones. NONE of them knew anything about this issue.

There I was, explaining the bills to the four people I spoke with – I asked to speak with a staffer in Senator Kerry’s office who let me know that the person who would know something was out of the office.

I never got the feeling that any of them knew what “restoring habeas” was. WTF?

I now know that Senators Kennedy and Kerry are cosponsors – why can’t the people answering the telephone tell me that?

And while you’re at it, ask them to back Emanuel’s cutting off funds for Cheney’s OVP (legislation which is about to have a sister bill in the Senate).

Christy Hardin Smith @ 86

demi at 85 — There definitely are advantages to faxing. Snail mail has to go through anthrax security, but faxes go through immediately. And knowing that you took the time to write something and send it carries some extra opinion weight.

Some forms of snail mail don’t have to go through security, i.e. postcards.

My Republican Senator and Rep have been getting a daily postcard from me, expressing my frustration that our troops are still in danger in Iraq. The Democratic Senator gets an “atta boy” email, and the occasional Thank-you card.

Phoenix Woman @ 92

And while you’re at it, ask them to back Emanuel’s cutting off funds for Cheney’s OVP (legislation which is about to have a sister bill in the Senate).

PW – how about doing a post on this to generate more calls? I would love to see every reps office blasted.

Hey sorry for yelling. I was unaware that uppercase was considered shouting???? Never in my life has typing “words” been considered shouting. I have trouble enough just collecting my thoughts never mind putting then down in words! Then to be told I’m shouting. Mydaughter enlightened me as to etiquette when expressing my opinions and thoughts based on life experience and historical facts, in words……

Made all my calls this morning requesting that my elected leaders return governance to the people rather than the dictates of corporate oil, aka bush/cheney. Followed up with emails also

AS far as people turning off the sound when they either are too lazy to endeavor to reason or just get sick of hearing it.

Alcoholics do it everyday. They continue to drink when they know it will kill them, but it is easier to give in and die than to fight affliction and listen totruth and reason. Meanwhile the purveyors line their pockets while depositing the funds in their banks and forcing many to make a decision to buy a gallon of milk, or a gallon of gas….. Go figure America!!!!!!

So as it relate to america’s consumption of gasoline, who cares as long as it is cheap!!!!!! Right!!!!

Gross, digusting, retarded!!!!!

Christy Hardin Smith @ 43

wgg –
Being a citizen requires action — passive sitting back and kvetching among ourselves doesn’t get us anywhere.

Again I take a different perspective from that generally expressed on this blog, but that doesn’t make me a bad person. I agree kvetching doesn’t get us anywhere. I don’t think calling 800 numbers gets us all that far either.

We need some process which makes the will of the people known and unquestionable. Millions of hand written, original authentic letters might do it. We need something central, someplace to discuss issues and actions in a meaningful fashion. I have no idea how that might be accomplished technically. Blogs all over the place, each independent, are fun, but ineffective.

The court cases which upheld the rule of law inspiring us to shout “The system works!” Didn’t change anything either.

I called Sen. Schumer’s DC office — having done that, would it be useful to call his local NY office as well, or would that be redundant?

Harriet at 97 — I think every bit helps. And, in my experience, local staffers are wonderfully conscientious about calls because they don’t tend to get as many — so you may get your message across even better with a local office than you can with the DC one. HTH!

I just called Sen. Murray’s office (D-WA) and asked about her support. Currently she has no position, but I encouraged her to support the bill and to consider co-sponsoring it along with fellow Washington state Senator Cantwell.

Sam at 99 — Thanks! Much appreciated!

Called my Congress-critter Brad Sherman and told his staff that he needed to take advantage of this golden opportunity to do good for his country and become a co-sponsor of HR 1416.
Sen. Feinstein and Boxer’s lines were busy, I’ll try them again later.

Called Senators Alexander and Corker (TN). Neither of them had a position, so I urged them to become co-sponsors or at least support the legislation.

I have spoken with Jim Cooper’s (TN-05) office a number of times and have brought this issue up on a couple of those occasions. He is in full support of restoring habeas corpus.

I’ve been trying these numbers and my Senator’s (Bill Nelson) all day with no luck. No one answers the listed numbers and Nelson’s is always busy. I guess they are getting some serious call volume today. Wonder why?

I gave it a try. Got the Capitol operator who asked for my zip code. Told her and got Christopher Shays office. Never voted for him. I put him in a class with Lieberman. Got an intern. Asked him how Shays felt about the habeus bill. He said he cannot speak for the Congressman. I said I didn’t want him to speak for the Congressman. Just wanted to know where the Congressman stood. He said he didn’t know. Gave him my name and address and that was that.

We need to repeal the ENTIRE MCA. It has more evil than only habeas corpus, though that is most important. It also grants immunity for war crimes for the executive branch. Repeal the whole thing,along with the PATRIOT Act!