I mentioned this below, but it is worth discussing this a bit more fully. In the Gellman and Becker piece on Dick Cheney today, Tim Flanigan is mentioned as someone at the DOJ taking the Vice President’s side of legal interpretation. Scarecrow pointed out this particular passage as illustrative of Flanigan’s relationship with the Cheney position:
Over the next 12 months, Congress and the Supreme Court imposed many of the restrictions that Cheney had squelched.”
The irony with the Cheney crowd pushing the envelope on presidential power is that the president has now ended up with lesser powers than he would have had if they had made less extravagant, monarchical claims,” said Bruce Fein, an associate deputy attorney general under President Ronald Reagan. Flanigan, a founding member of that crowd, said he still believes that Addington and Yoo were right in their “application of generally accepted constitutional principles.” But he acknowledged that many battles ended badly. “The Supreme Court,” Flanigan said, “decided to change the rules.” Even so, Cheney’s losses were not always as they appeared. (emphasis mine)
Yep, it’s all the mean Supreme Court’s fault that they wanted the Vice President’s minions and everyone else across the government to follow the laws as they are written, including longstanding principles of due process. Shocking, that. I picked up some reporting that Jane did on Mr. Flanigan from the early days of the Fitzgerald investigation, and I wanted to amplify something. From Jane:
A lot was made about the resignation of James Comey this week, Fitzgerald’s boss and the one who purportedly assigned him to Plame in the first place. It didn’t help matters when it was announced that BushCo. put forward former Tyco attorney Timothy Flanigan to take his place this week. It looked like the justice department was trying to ease Comey out and put in someone who would be more amenable to firing Fitzgerald off the Plame case, which — at this point in time — it seems they could conceivably do.
But Comey announced his resignation in March of this year; he’d had his eye on the AG job, and when that went to Abu Gonzales it was well known that he would probably return to the private sector where he could make some serious bank. It hit the headlines because the Senate Judiciary Committee interviewed Flanigan this week, and Arlen Specter (R-PA) announced that the dude made him queasy. It probably wasn’t the news a lot of folks thought it was.
At that time, all signs were pointing to Rove, because he was going in and out of the grand jury along with all of his various minions (like Susan Ralston) as though it were a revolving testimonial door. But, in hindsight, the Flanigan maneuver was more likely an attempt to keep Dick safe, not Rove. In which case, the Comey delegation of Fitzgerald supervisory authority to Margolis was even more of an FU than we originally thought.
Because through the Libby indictment and subsequent trial, a whole lot of Cheney’s soft underbelly of media manipulation, manufactured story plants, intelligence cherry-picking and subsequent planting for media dissemination, and all sorts of other juicy bits and pieces got exposed. And, for a man as obsessed with keeping his secrets as Dick Cheney is, that had to hurt.
Sitting here thinking about that this morning makes me smile. Sometimes, it’s the little things…
Sure brings the whole shrieking Comstock and Matalin media blitz in the op-ed pages of late into a much crisper focus — because it is still, just as it always has been, about protecting Dick Cheney’s secrets. Except now, with the little dribbles that have already come out, people have realized that they were manipulated, had and used for Dick Cheney’s own power-consolidating machinations…and so people are starting to talk, even people close to Dick Cheney who previously would have been too afraid to do so.
And once it starts, it’s awfully hard to bottle all that pent-up frustration and that need for payback, isn’t it? You don’t rise to the top without stepping on an awful lot of people the way that Dick Cheney operates. And, at the moment, he’s more of a liability than he is an asset to the long-term health of the Republican party. Especially when you consider that 2008 is fast approaching. Whatever Michael Gerson may say about Cheney being “principled,” as Rick Perlstein said yesterday when we were on Sam Seder’s show, that’s just conservative code for “authoritarian.” And there should be no running away or throwing Dick in front of an oncoming bus for the good of the GOP’s future, because they have propped him and his policies up every step of the way. The Republican party allowed Dick Cheney’s rise to unfettered, manipulative power broker in the White House and in the party — they can damn well face the consequences for his actions right along with him as well.
(Photo of the Mosler safe doors at The Greenbrier via The Brookings Institution.)
UPDATE: Comment of the day from Diane: “I can picture Dick sitting at his desk, pen in hand, writing in the margins of the WaPo.”



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Dick, in a box
Christy, these posts are just amazing. Thanks for all you do.
there must be a LOT of very unhappy people who worked around Dick.
‘morning, Redd!
I’m guessing there is a very icy atmosphere in the WH today.
Hi Christy.
Wonder if this latest Cheney conundrum (claiming executive privelege while insisting he’s not part of the executive branch) will catch fire with the press and then the rest of the head in sand’ers?
If nothing else this dude has done has risen to the level of deserving mass ridicule and scorn, surely this does it.
I forget what blog comments it was on, but someone surmised that the Darth Vader stories coming out now are the start of blowback. Basically, those that Cheney stomped on before have decided they aren’t gonna go quietly.
But Democrats must articulate a brand image that is more than “we are not Dicks”.
Actually, that sounded pretty good.
T- @ 5
Considering this presidency is dead in the water(except for Iraq and Immigration it seems), it is perfect time for the knives to come out. Especially for those who Cheney humiliated before. What do they have to lose? Everyone now knows what a thug and criminal Cheney is.
I realize that impeachment probably won’t happen because of the timidity of Congressional Democrats. Is there even an outside chance that a Democratic President elected in 2008, who presumably would appoint a real Attorney General (who could prosecute Cheney for his crimes) would have the guts to do it? Or is that just wishful thinking?
…and so people are starting to talk, even people close to Dick Cheney who previously would have been too afraid to do so.
And once it starts, it’s awfully hard to bottle all that pent-up frustration and that need for payback, isn’t it?
You’re right! Even emptywheel is beginning to pass along strange tales of
Darth Shooter’s, uh “Angler’s” incompetence:as I understand it, Cheney’s not that great a fisherman. At least that’s what a friend I was close to in the early 90s told me. You see, she (yes, she) fished against Cheney at the Jackson One Fly tournament. A whole day in a boat with no one else but Cheney (pre-Vice President days) and a guide. Now, my friend was a pretty good fly-fisher. Still, she kicked his ass.
Which I guess provides a nice irony to the title of the article. Here is Cheney trying to take over the world. But he–Angler–can’t even beat a girl in his eponymous sport!
Pity someone didn’t figure out he was a loser before the Iraq war….
So where’s Chris Matthews and Tim Russert on this, eh? Cheney wasn’t only sharing a boat with a WOMAN, she KICKED HIS BUTT.
I take issue with this statement. The Republican party allowed Cheney to RE-rise to an unfettered power position when any intelligent choice would have been to let the sadistic old f*cker stew in his own juices along with Rummy after the debacle of the Nixon years.
Christy, I’m all for keeping Dick in that safe!
great pic for the post *g*
No doubt that folks in the CIA the DOJ, Congress(waves at Henry and Pat!),and a the Pentagon are reading this series carefully. This has to blood-in-the-water for Mr. Waxman and many others. Shall we see the waters frothing soon?!
Flanigan was a Tyco attorney? Given the proven corruption from that corporation, it says to me that Flanigan shouldn’t be anywhere NEAR the DoJ if for no other reason than his obvious incompetence and unwillingness to even attempt to stop Koslowski and Co..
(yes, I am making some assumptions here based on limited evidence but where there’s smoke and all that…)
What I find amazing is that Christy has more guts than the whole lot of the media coming through the tubes. It just goes to show that all of the MSM are only sitting in their jobs because they say what they are told to say. Not one of them could get a job on their merits and all of them are unable to blog because they can’t take the heat of open comments. Kudos to firedoglake, as usual.
Thanks, Christy, for another critical piece of analysis. I like to think that FDL is responsible for a great deal of that sunshine you so often long for in being able to get to all of the nooks and crannies where the hurtful secrets are stashed.
Thank you, Christy, Jane, the posters and the commenters for providing real time democracy in action oases.
I can’t begin to tell you how much of my remedial education and movement forward you are providing, and how grateful I am for it!
Sorry to OT so early, but this is fucking insane:
PBS has named Frank Luntz, the infamous Fucktard word warrior who wrote, amont other things, the Contract on America for Newtie, to be the analyst of the June 28 Dem “debate”.
Media Matters circulated the email earlier today. Get on the horn with the morons at PBS as pitch a ferocious bitch. Contact #s included in the link.
again apologies for early interruption…
hey, ET – we were worrying about you last night… your fires out yet?
The Republicans are the Vi*agra Party. They spend all their time propping up Dicks.
-GSD
With all the vacancies at the top of the Justice Department, AGAG must be looking for some new folks to step in. The problem he faces, however, is the quaint notion of confirmation hearings before the Senate Judiciary committee (see Mercer, for instance).
Perhaps the chair and ranking member of the Senate Judiciary committee might quietly suggest a few names to take some of those top spots. People who might get rather quick confirmation. People known to support the rule of law as the first principle of justice, and not protection of the party. People known to have read and understood the Constitution of the United States, as it appears on paper and not in the dim recesses of their rightwing imaginations (see Addington, Yoo, & Co.).
People like Alberto Mora.
I read the second part last night. It only pissed me off more especially the John Yoo stuff. What made him a torture expert in the first place? Was he out there experimenting on little animals with Bill Frist? I was soooo glad he didn’t approve of the burying alive method.
I needed the Punaise and GSD humor to lighten my mood after reading all the Dick reporting and commenting here and at EW’s site. Thanks.
The Repubs are a-Dick-did to oil.
GSD @ 19
V*agra: faux erection/rise; faux desire; faux rectitude; deceptive posture; and so on.
EPUed from below:
random thoughts:
with all this bad press for the vice president, how timely that stories appear about bad blood between cheney and condi. condi has no future at all if she continues to be linked to the cheney administration. i think she is positioning herself for life after w.
also, it’s worth repeating that cheney’s daughter is advising fred thompson on the neocon way.
watch where all these cockroaches scuttle to when the administration changes. (or will it just get a face lift.)
Ive been away all weekend and just now reading. Its amazing how much is going on.
Tom Hartman keeps saying that all of us must get active now. Esp. with the Supreme Court.
Alito and Roberts lied under oath and Cheney and his gang terrify me as our Dems seem so tentative.
I, for one, think I misunderestimated Ashcroft. These articles suggest he was less of a toady than I thought.
Conversely, I overestimated Powell. Sadly, when it counted, he lacked the courage to do the right thing.
I must say that the one bright spot in my reading was finding that Dick was beaten by “a girl” in a flyfishing tournament. He probably doesn’t fly fish all that much because flyfishing is usually catch and release, not torture and kill. He wants to use barbed hooks and live bait.
Cheney’s daughter and Cruella DeCarville are on board with Hollywood Fred.
I betcha Larry Flynt is going to turn up some dirt on Fast Freddie.
Let’s start talking about Fred Thompson’s “bimbo reuptions”.
-GSD
old gold @ 27
i dunno about ashcroft…
but you coulda learned all you needed to know about Colon Powell from his service covering up the My Lai atrocities.
OT – Steven Griles gets sentanced tomorrow.
LINK
All this stuff is mildly interesting but what the MSM realllly wants to find out is how much his haircuts cost.
Seriously, I am reminded of accounts from the Berlin bunkers in the spring of 1945. It was apparent to all but a very few that the cause was lost and lower level people were in full-scale CYA mode. It’s crumbling as we speak.
When I was an internal auditor, I always liked to find friends in low places. I learned so much more than the other guys who had friends in high places. The secretaries and supervisors are much more interesting the directors and VPs.
Are we really watching the fall of Dick Cheney?
Are we careening towards Impeachment? Surely there’s collateral damage ahead. How bad?
The long term effects of this administration are likely to be significant- and totally different from what they or we expect.
They went way too far in a certain direction- and the reaction may be to spring back like a rubber band in the oppostite direction.
I can picture Dick sitting at his desk, pen in hand, writing in the margins of the WaPo.
As much as gooper congresscritters may detest this administration- they aren’t going to vote to impeach anybody- and without gooper votes- there will be no impeachments.
Whatever “justice” Cheney et al recieve will come from a different source- perhaps the pens of historians.
On timing… any possibility that this can dog whistle Libby into talking to Fitz?
Diane at 35 — That’s brilliant. And I’ve hat-tipped you above for it. I needed that chuckle today…
Dick Cheney’s Song of America: LINK and PDF
If a Dick falls in the Whitehouse, does anyone hear it?
-GSD
Here’s another (slightly, because this article quotes Bruce Fein as well) OT:
Justice in Alabama.
The federal prosecutors handling the case have demanded a sentence of thirty years in prison – in a case which should have been dismissed in the first instance and in any event involves no personal gain of any sort by Siegelman.
…
She’s been smeared as “crazy” and as a “disgruntled contract bidder.” And something nastier: after her intention to speak became known, Simpson’s house was burned to the ground, and her car was driven off the road and totaled. Clearly, there are some very powerful people in Alabama who feel threatened. Her case starts to sound like a chapter out of John Grisham’s book The Pelican Brief. However, those who have dismissed Simpson are in for a very rude surprise. Her affidavit stands up on every point, and there is substantial evidence which will corroborate its details.
I initially assumed Siegelman was probably guilty of something, although his prosecution was likely a result of his being a Democrat. Now I’m not so sure. This is an excellent article.
GSD @ 40
Is that a tricky question?
By the way. Bush is now pretty much alone on the world stage.
His buttboy and newly converted Catholic partner in war crimes has just stepped down.
Among reports that Blair was going to try to scuttle Gordon Brown before he could take power.
-GSD
To paraphrase the Godfather, I think that Bush is going to leave office with only his Dick in his hand.
according to the Post article’s sources, cheney truly doesn’t care what anyone except History thinks about him.
Be that as it may, I am SO glad this series is being published, for all the obvious reasons, to which I would add (1) the poor old bastardized, corrupted Washington Post is finally doing something right for a change; and (2) I had dinner last week with a friend who, though a Democrat and fairly progressive, REFUSED to agree with me that cheney is evil.
Eureka Springs @ 42
That would have been “If a Dick falls to his knees”.
Pray with me Henry.
-GSD
Elliott @ 33
Short answer: No. According to Senator Chris Dodd, when asked whether Dick Cheney was upholding the Constitution, said Cheney’s “not been upholding it as well as he could”.
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pb…../-1/NEWS05
Dodd apparently doesn’t think that Cheney’s actions are all that bad. Sure Cheney could do a better job of upholding the Constitution, but you can’t have everything.
Hugh @ 44
that’s brilliant too.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 6
Oh please let that be the case.
Please, oh please, oh please.
I am liking the drip,drip,drip coming out about Dick,there is no cure for what ails him.
Christy, thanks for the h/t, glad to put a smile on your face.
As would lots of other people, I’d love to know who the sources are for Gellman and Becker’s series. It could be the “Perfect Storm” for Deep Throats from military, DOJ, CIA, append-acronym-of-choice.
Thank Heavens it is happening, for it is the best way of keeping us from attacking Iran that I can imagine happening. (And that itself might be a clue to the identity to some of the sources, although they probably ought to be left alone to do their work …)
Maybe it will even wake up the napper-in-Chief so that he realizes that not even Armageddon is worth this much trouble.
David Addington, Cheney’s lawyer, should first be debarred for unethical conduct and then he should be depantsed to expose the source of his legal advice.
OT a little
Does someone know about Nixon’s cronies-
didn’t 14 of them go on to spend time in jail after Nixon left office?
OT–
SCOTUS does it again before breaking for the summer:
yet another beautiful job of writing, General, ma’am.
the mistakes of history, indeed!
Ed*ard Teller @ 10
Good for Marcy. heh. Still, seems unfair for her to take advantage. Finesse just doesn’t strike me as one of bigtime’s strong points, & isn’t fly-fishing all about precision & finesse? Seems to me he’s more suited to pursuit of those flying carp that jump right into the boat. Why, I hear tell they’re known to smack would-be anglers right in the face on occasion.
There is not going to be any “throwing Dick under the bus”:
“And there should be no running away or throwing Dick in front of an oncoming bus for the good of the GOP’s future, because they have propped him and his policies up every step of the way.”
He’s driving the bus. His “robust” vision has become the Republican party’s, with each candidate trying to outdo the other in enthusiasm for anal rape of prisoners.
I don’t want to overstate things, but at certain points the Post articles remind me of a dramatization of the Wansee Conference, “Conspiracy”, with Kenneth Branagh and Colin Firth. Throughout the action various of the bureaucrats assembled, particularly Firth, raise legalistic or logistical reservations about what Reinhard Heydrich is getting at, but bit by bit the pretenses of bureaucratic consultation fall away and with near unanimous relief everyone assents to obey what is clearly an order from on high.
The First Baptist Church chimes in on George W. Bush.
Courtesy of Larry Johnson at No Quarter.
-GSD
Diane @ 35
with three cellphones in his lap…
OldCoastie @ 18
It rained a lot in Southcentral Alaska from early Saturday through now. The local fires are being mopped up, and the big one in the Kenai Penninsula is under control.
A lot of the fuel for these fires are the enormous stands of dead spruce trees. About 15 million acres. From the early 1980s through now, spruce bark beetles have swept across these gigantic stands, leaving a swath of dead forests, waiting for natural or human fire to destroy it all. These fires are very inevitable, and when they happen away from human habitation, it is probably best for the forests to be rid of the standing dead trees to make way for new growth. Another aspect of exaggerated effects of climate change in the sub-Arctic.
This is from the Raw Story on the NYT’s article on Rubert:LINK
Alvord @ 53
Yes, and Yoo. Why hasn’t this happened? Does it take a felony conviction to get disbarred? Do folks like Addington and Yoo take oaths to protect and defend the constitution for positions they served in this administration?
I’m considering the source, but I think I read something to that effect in a Canadian paper article about Conrad Black’s book on Nixon.
rwcole @ 34
I think your are right..the spring will let go when the economy tanks..unfortunately the opposite direction won’t be progressive/liberalism but old fashion “American Populism”; with all of the associated isms..nativism, racism, antisemitism etc. Think Dobbs and Buchanan.
behindthefall @ 52
Look at who is being treated overly kindly, e.g., John Yoo.
Lott’s book should have been called Fu*king Sheep instead of Herding Cats.
Maybe Trent can go sit in Bush’s dock at the Hague instead of Bush and Lott sharing mint juleps on Trent’s porch.
-GSD
cspan 3 is carrying the testimony of Christy Todd Whitman on pollution at ground zero. Another Republican willing to lie to the American public endangering their health, safety and welfare.
Bluetoe @ 67
to quote Kirk, she’s a ghoul
Gerald Nadler is chairing the Congressional hearing. Should be worth a look see.
Last week, before Gellerman, I wondered why the OVP and the WH were not together on the Executive Branch story. Dick’s was the loopy version that he was in another dimension, while the WH version was that the president’s order wasn’t meant to apply to either the WH or the OVP, even though its words clearly did (they must have got V Toensing to draft it). Now I wonder if the division was deliberate, leaving Cheney hanging out to dry.
BTW I have had a lovely thought. When you guys picture someone being thrown under a bus, I bet you picture a long single deck one. Now I picture a big tall red double decker (which somehow is much more satisfying).
rwcole @ 36
Correction: without goopers votes, there will be no convictions.
Diane @ 35
Uh-oh.
Does anyone know if Gelman and/or Becker have spouses? If so, someone better warn them . . .
Cheney minion to spouse: “It’s a nice job you’ve got there. It’d be a pity if anything happened to it.”
rwcole @ 36
That should really sting!
Steve @ 64
Emptywheel spoke about how Cheneyism a problem not just of political power, or even tortured law, but one of culture. I think that even if progressives are unsuccessful at stopping the war, the rest of the world will win the cold war they will have to wage against us for the next decade or two. They’ll beat our economy down into a state where it can no longer borrow and bribe its way to hegemony, and at that point the kind of political culture people here foster now will determine whether we go the way of Germany 1933, or 1945.
GSD @ 40
does he have one a those little collars that alerts a phonebank in India when he’s fallen and can’t get up?
With a year and a half to go:
Gasoline prices back over $3
Home sales tanking- forced sales escalating- interest rates rising- can’t see the bottom.
Stock market fluctuating wildly
Iraqnam casualties reaching records- situation deteriorating as Bush’s new surge strategy takes definate shape- the shape of a corpse outline at a homocide site.
More and more coming out about how fucked up, arrogant, and just plain stupid the conduct of this administration has been.
GNP flattening by the quarter- another Bush recession quite possibly on the way..
By the time these fuckers leave office- american is going to hate them more than Bin Laden.
Peterr @ 72
Glad you said that. I keep thinking that we are getting to a point where those who disagree with Cheney may just be “disappeared.” I certainly would put nothing past this madman.
Newsweek: A New Cheney-Gonzales Mystery
Ironically, those doors pictured at the Greenbrier used to camoflage an “undisclosed location” (albeit for Congress).
Milan River @ 54
Well IIRC (and I’m pretty sure I do), John Mitchell, Richard Kleindist, Bob Haldeman, John Erlichman, Charles Colson, and John Dean all served some time in prison.
brendan @ 74
With the media America has I bet it will be 1933.
Christy
Sitting here thinking about that this morning makes me smile. Sometimes, it’s the little things… Perfect
Wasn’t cheney due to have a new battery installed this summer?
rwcole @ 36
Which historians? Bernard Lewis? Michael Barone? Niall Ferguson? Francis Fukuyama? Looking the Post’s or NYT’s Book Reviews demonstrates that they’ve known for some time that “history” is a relevant political battleground. By way of random example, Barone had a book that portrayed England’s “Glorious Revolution” as, among other things, the seed for Anglo-American foreign interventions against “hegemonic powers” such as Louis IV, Napoleon, Hitler and…Al Quaeda.
C92 at 79 — Yup — thought it was a good “inside the bunker” joke. *g*
After Nadler’s opening statement there was applause at which point the ranking Republican said “bang the gavel.”
ironranger @ 82
Since Cheney’s lair is so close to the source, they are going to try a geothermal pacemaker.
-GSD
rwcole @ 36
I agree they won’t impeach, but it won’t be because of the Republicans. It’s all on the Dems. Impeachment takes place in the House, and all it takes is a simple majority. We don’t need a single Republican vote.
Conviction is another matter entirely, but we should not confuse impeachment with conviction. Even if it does not result in removal from office, we need impeachment to vindicate the rule of law.
Eight years of Cheneyism hasn’t done much for the country. Don’t think we should try it again.
Gooper candidates for president have a big problem- do they pretend that Cheneyism has been a big success – and please the 26 percenters- but doom themselves for the general election? Apparently.
Conyers welcoming Whitman with some kind words. Talking about her “independence”. More kabuki theatre.
The GOP has a history of huffing and puffing about responsibility, like in welfare moms driving Cadillacs, and petty crooks not being punished, and a bunch of other hypocritical crap. Well Republicans, you got a taste of responsibility-appetizers last November. And you guys are going to get the full course responsibility-meal a year from this coming fall. We’re going to bury you and your party. And we are going to keep on burying you, because we know you will keep sticking your ugly skeletal head out of the dirt. I feel better now.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 85
Cheney: “Where is
Army Group Steiner?Tim Russert?”Ellen
Impeachment without conviction with votes along party lines will look like pure political theatre and strengthen support for the administration.
At least that’s how I see it.
OK @ 90 – and after that, we send them to the Hague to sit for their War Crimes trials.
GSD @ 86
He flies up to Bethesda Naval Hospital every month for a new baboon heart.Steve @ 64
Buchanan opposed the war, loudly, strenously and incisively, while 21 Democratic Senators, including four presidential candidates, and our last nominee, voted for it.
I wish I could be as sanguine as others that these articles about Cheney’s shadow presidency amount to poetic justice finally being served. For six years we have been victims of a massive disinformation campaign. Why should this series of articles with a lot of revealing inside-the-Oval Office talk be any different? Why cannot this be just the latest in the Bush administration’s long night of dark deceptions?
Well, to take the devil’s advocate position, these articles can just as easily be seen as a BushCo campaign to begin the official demonization of Cheney in order to sanitize Bush, to give Bush plausible deniability in the eyes of history?
As far as Cheny is concerned we know he does not give a shit about what the public thinks, so this does not hurt him in any way. And of course, he knows there will be no accountability at the end of the day.
As Bush himself may say, this could be just a lot of “political theater” to shift blame away from the man in the Oval Office.
dakine01 @ 80
hey, don’t forget Liddy.
hmm. trying to imagine bigtime with a call-in radio show… liberal callers’ head-sets spontaneously bursting into flame on cue…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 91
A stake needs to be driven through the heart of the Republican Party. If not the undead always return. Today’s stake are convictions and long prison terms. In some cases there may be grounds for deportation of “citizens” working as agents for a foreign power.
>And, at the moment, he’s more of a liability than he is an asset to the long-term health of the Republican party.
This is what concerns me. Who is behind the WaPo hit piece on Dick? Who has been encouraging the disenchanted to talk? The people I see benefitting from this are Rove and Bush. Bush comes off looking like a man with an IQ right above freezing. But this would be misleading. His demeanor in press conferences gives him away. His insolent smirk is a dead giveaway that he knows *exactly* what he’s up to. Why should we let him get away with the “Aw, Shucks, I had no idea what my VP and advisors were up to. They were just leading little-ol-me astray.”
The last thing I want is for the American public to have any sympathy for Bush because his VP is a monster and his AG is a toe-licking sycophant who is waaaaay over his head.
They’re all in it together and now that the jig is up, they think they can jettison Dick in order to save W.
I ain’t buyin’ it.
Bluetoe @ 85
wishful thinking? poor baby. this is going to be a long week for goopers.
Battery or geothermal pacemaker, I wonder if the installation date will be moved up. Naw, I doubt stress touches that frozen heart.
The Democrats and sane Republicans are going to have to do something very soon or else Cheney will go to Defcon 4 and launch a unilateral attack on Iran.
How can they keep Dick in a box?
-GSD
Conyers actually thinks that Whitman and other Administration spokepersons are going to provide the committee with the truth. Conyers is a good man but sometime he seems rather naive or else so wedded to DC power that he merely goes through the motions.
OT: I could use some help here. I had updated the Wikipedia article on Bork Here to add the reference to the Libby amici brief and Waltons remarks on it. Walton’s remarks were edited off because I don’t have a reference to them besides FDL. Does anyone know if they have been published anywhere like court transcripts or anything? I think this zinger really should be there but w/o a citation they won’t allow it.
Thanks
RW
Bluetoe @ 81
I see the lizard brains wanting to lynch the pointy headed liberals and the “rich”. The big winners will the theocrat/dominionists.
OK @ 91
Don’t forget the garlic. I’m told that if you stuff their mouths with garlic, they can’t rise again, but they’ll still be alive.
The number one priority of the dem controlled congress should be to clarify that the authorization of force does NOT include the authorization for war in Iran. Why do they not DO this? Lots of congresscritters express their opinion that the authorization does not extend to Iran- but we all know that Bush will take advantage of any ambiguity and act without further authorization. He must be forced to return to congress for another hall pass.
RW @ 104
Try at emptywheel’s place, I think there’s a link there. You might have to get into the archives for it, though.
Adie @ 97
I wasn’t forgetting Liddy; it’s just at the time, he was unknown and at a much lower level in the cosmic scheme of things. Howard Hunt was higher than he was for instance.
But Mitchell was AG, Kleindist was DAG who became AG after Mitchell, Haldeman was CoS, Erlichman was Chief domestic Advisor, Dean was WH Counsel, Colson was Special Counsel to the president.
All were high level officials. Think of it as Ashcroft, Gonzales, Harriet Miers, Karen Hughes, Andy Card, and Josh Bolten all going to jail
rwcole @ 92
Conversely, the whole ugly maggot infested underbelly of Bushco could be thoroughly disclosed for all of America to see. As I understand it, a LOT of material can be made to appear at an impeachment. Under those circumstances, the public may turn viciously against Bush and Cheney. They might not like a vote to convict stalled by the Republicans. They might just take it out on the Republicans.
Impeachment is definitely a losing proposition for the GOP which is why they have a vested interest in prophesying doom for anyone who tries it.
Steve@105, don’t forget to include the gays, illegals, atheists, socialists, dipshits and teenage loose women.
OT:
Christy – are you going to do or get somebody to do a post showing the bizarre differences in free speech interpretations the Supremes have just thrown at us in FEDERAL ELECTION COMM’N v. WISCONSIN RIGHT TOLIFE, INC. and in MORSE v. FREDERICK (Bong hits for Jesus)?
dakine01 @ 108
the stuff of pleasant dreams ;->
The bottom line is that Cheney wants the US to torture people and ignore the Geneva Conventions, and Addington, Yoo, Gonzales etal., made it possible.
This Administration tortures human beings. They need to be held accountable for that now. They need to be arrested and put on trial for war crimes.
Christy, I think you are right about payback.
rwcole @ 92
I understand that perspective, but I don’t agree. The American people did not start out believing Nixon should be impeached, they were convinced by the impeachment hearings. The Republicans successfully tarnished the concept of impeachment with Clinton. If we don’t get impeachment back as a viable control we might as well just give up now because that is the only means we have of dealing with a corrupt executive.
It’s up to the Dems to do it correctly, laying out the case for impeachment and building support.
Frogmarch in cuffs.
Hey LS, my e-mails to you kept being returned because of a full mailbox. Did you get the info on the Central TX FDL gathering for July 8th?
portia.vz @ 110
I agree with rwcole. Impeachment right now would turn the whole public off to anything discovered. No matter WHAT came out, it would be tainted as politics as usual/payback for Clinton and Dems would pay dearly in the next election
I would love to see them all standing in chains in the docks but reality has to play here. Momentary gratification could totally destroy the long term marginalization of the Reich wing neo cons and theists. We need to do this step by step so that NO one can doubt the entire package.
And even then, 20%-25% of the public will offer apologias and excuses from everybody does it to what’s the big deal. We need to make sure that the 80% are not just in agreement that ChimpCo is a bad administration but is a corrupt lawless administration. We are not close to that as yet.
Gnome de Plume @ 116
Yes I did!! Thanks! I’ll check what’s up with my mailbox.
rwcole @ 107
There are a couple of reasons. First, Congress has been marginalized in the past thirty years, and they know it. Second, knowing that they’ve been excluded from power (by custom? by coercion?), and therefore unaccountable, they then feel free to pander to that Lobby. It’s beating a dead horse, but I think the best single illustration of this igominious posture was last summer’s 410-8 vote against a Lebanon cease fire at the very same time bombs were falling on Americans in Beirut and Haifa.
Hey, Christy and all:
Haven’t had time to Hoover the threads. Did anyone mention this little tidbit about what looks to be blatant editorial meddling in the Gellman piece, in an attempt to weaken its conclusions?
LS @ 118
The last one I got was 6/18.
EllenG @ 114
The American people were not convinced about the riightness of impeachment until the so-called “smoking gun” WH tape was released that proved Nixon had obstructed justice by particiapting in and directing the cover-up of the break-in two days after it occurred. If he had gone on camera the day after the break-in and admitted everything and apoloigzed, he would have served his whole term and retired with honors. THAT’S the reality.
An impeachment and trial is not a referendum. It’s an investigation into “high crimes and misdemeanors”. Let the process begin and let the people judge for themselves. When the vast and myriad crimes of this administration are revealed to the public they will scream and howel for the removal from office of Cheney and/or Bush. The Republicans will have no choice but act accordingly to the publics’ will.
Thanks dakine and Adie-
So do we have to wait for Bush to be out of office for real justice to happen to the many arrogant snakes?
In the midst of the release of the “Cheney papers,” and two dynamite lead posts here on FDL, there is plenty of new evidence for why Cheney should be impeached. So I’d like to remind Firepups about the Priming the Pump project and its workspace for articles of impeachment against Cheney. We can formulate new articles of impeachment against Cheney in addition to the ones others have previously suggested, supporting them with documentation!
–and then we can send them to our Representatives!
Bob in HI
rwcole @ 107
i think they tried to do something like this in may with h.r.1585 (an amendment to a defense appropriations bill). it lost with 99 dems voting against it and speaker pelosi not voting.
more recently there was the vote for h.con.r.21 (only kucinich and paul voted against it). this resolution seems, imo, to open some doors – in it ahmadinejad was charged with violation of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide and the United Nations Charter (based on a mistranslation) and which claimed that “Iran has aggressively pursued a clandestine effort to arm itself with nuclear weapons” (in contradiction to IAEA reports).
it’s actually much worse than this… for example, when kucinich tried to read into the record the correct translation from the nyt – he was not allowed to.
i am very worried about our house of representatives.
Phoenix Woman @ 121
@ 110 last thread.
Milan River @ 124
Unfortunately, most likely.
Nixon had a Dem controlled House and Senate against him his entire time in office and the investigations still took years to come to fruition. The national press corp wasn’t as bad as today but they still werre in denial as to the import of the H2Ogate break-in (I believe it was Joe Alsop who coined the “third-rate burglary meme).
ChimpCo has had a complicit/compliant Congress for six years. Dems have been in control for six months with much smaller majorities than in the early ’70s. Information is coming out at a breathtaking speed in comparison.
how much longer before Scooter dons his tiny orange jumpsuit?
Bob Schacht @ 126
The downside of impeaching Cheney is that if Cheney goes, Bush becomes president!
rwcole @ 93
No way. It will look like a bunch of corrupt Republicans covering their ass, desperately.
dakine01 @ 117
Ironically, it is C-Span’s fault that the public is so badly misinformed. Back during the Watergate hearings, if you wanted to watch television, you had to watch John Dean and Alexander Butterfield testify. These days, that is all safely hidden away on channel 210 for the political junkies. We’ve all be categorized.
Nevertheless, there are only so many scandals and hearings and denouements that can happen before the weight of the whole mess starts us down that slippery slope to impeachment. Otherwise, why bother with the hearings at all? Bush/Cheney will do as they please. The GOP will continue to deny Congress any legislative victories. More soldiers will die in Iraq.
The only way out of the checked position that Nancy is in right now is to at least impeach Gonzales. That at least will get the ball rolling again. Even she must know this by now.
dakine01 @ 117
I disagree with dakine here and agree with Portia. Public outrage demands **action**, and impeachment is the way that the Democrats can show that they mean business. Otherwise its just talk, talk, talk, with no visible outcome.
Bob in HI
am I the only one feeling some kind of doom pending here?
well, I hope it’s for this administration, each and every hydrated head of it.
GeorgeSimian @ 131
GS, it will look like that to you as you have been paying attention. Those of us here at FDL and other sites in Leftblogistan are really a quite small minority. The mouth breathers, the non-thinkers, the folks too caught up in surviving are not paying attention and THOSE are the ones who will buy the VRWC blow back and noise machine that it is all a political trick/payback.
dakine01 @ 116
The problem is that we need to get a lot more members of Congress to see the light. The administration has 26% approval rating right now, and congress acts like he is popular because they are afraid of that 26% and the way they will be portrayed in the media.
RE impeachment, Cheney has approval ratings in the teens and has since he shot his lawyer in the face.. Just how low and long must we the people wait for impeachment to feel fashionable? Damn near 80 percent are not happy with the way things are going in general…
Return our constitution with the geneva conventions intact, along with the rule of law.
WHAT CONSEQUENCES???????????????????????????
NO ONE CAN LAY A GLOVE ON HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HE IS THE INVINCIBLE ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I really don’t see what all the fuss is about regarding the 2008 presidential elections. They’ll never be allowed to happen. Why don’t you people see???
Well- regardless of the potential effects of an impeachment- there isn’t going to be one. There is no serious movement afoot in the house judiciary committee for one- and if such a movement were to get started- it would be well into Bush’s final year before anything serious materialized. At that point- it would be best to let the voters take care of things at the polls.
Would be fun to see the band of thieves evicted- but that is a pleasure we will not share.
realworld @ 103
They’ve been quoted all over the place, from the Wall Street Journal’s Law blog to Raw Story to John Dean over at FindLaw.
Actually I kind of like having Cheney to “kick around”. The prez is fond of talking about political capital. Well, George, Karl and the Dick are political capital. Democratic political capital.
Whitman is being combative with Nadler. Trying to cover her exposed a…..
JF @ 136 says:
26% positive JAR does not equate to 74% in favor of impeachment. Truman and Carter both had JARs in this range at points in their admins and impeachment was never even raised as a possibility.
Most all of us here believe that the criminal actions have been taken by this admin. We contact our congress critters accordingly. WE ARE THE EXCEPTIONS. The investigations continue. The corporate owned media is being held to account. They are being forced to cover things kicking and screaming.
FDL, TPM, Kos, Hullabaloo, C&L, DWT are all important cogs in this. We are doing exactly what we need to do and holding ALL, elected officials AND the press, to account, whether they like it or not.
dakine01 @ 136
I just don’t buy it. Sure, maybe it will happen, but I think an impeachment would raise the awareness on this 10,000%. Gonzo would be on the news, where they could easily disect his lying to Congress. Other evidence would come up. Plus, I think there is little enthusiasm behind protecting Gonzo, even among the Repugs. What if he’s convicted? Would that mean the same thing? I’d say there’s a good chance it would stick.
dreamcatcher @ 131
Heeee!
LS – send me an e-mail to see if I can reply to you.
johnSwifty @ 146
PELOSI 2007!
rwcole @ 140
That’s the point! It has to be done now or all their crimes will go unpunished. You are very pessimistic, but I’m not sure it is the fait accompli you say it is.
rwcole @ 139
If impeachment comes around, it’ll start with AGAG and grow out of the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings. With each new revelation of political interference, each new resignation of a top-level DOJ deputy/associate/assistant AG, and each new document dump, the blatant manipulations of the justice department and the justice system grow more and more intolerable, even to the GOP.
Are we there yet? No.
But that’s where things are headed, and things are only going to pick up speed.
New Froomkin Lede is Darth, the WaPo0 stories and the “fourth branch.”
This was the LA Times editorial from Saturday:
LINK
May 09, 2007
POLL: InsiderAdvantage Bush/Cheney Impeachment
A new InsiderAdvantage/Majority Opinion national survey of 621 registered voters (conducted 5/4 through 5/6) finds 39% of Americans favor the impeachment of President Bush and Vice President Cheney; 54% do not.
dakine01 @ 151
New Froomkin Lede is Darth, the WaPo0 stories and the “fourth branch.”
that send chills to the bottom of my spine.
my bold
Gnome de Plume @ 147
I just replied to one of yours. The storms are causing me to have really irregular internet. Hope you get it. I’m going upstairs…but I’ll check back here.
Peterr
Would be nice- I don’t think many have any idea about what’s going on with the senate judiciary committee. If they were told- they wouldn’t understand it- they’ll buy the story that the prez can fire anyone he wants for whatever reason strikes him. I don’t see how this turns into impeachment–but what the hell- hope you are right.
I don’t understand how the American people would construe the actions of this maladministration as anything but a threat to the democracy we are supposedly busy exporting.
Christy’s Complicity upstairs
Haven’t read the comments yet, Magnificent post yet again Christy.
Did even one of these feckers even intend to honour their oath of office at all? Were they even going to accept the oath before it was given? Was the oath just an empty, meaningless contrivance one passed through?
I’d bet every oath taken was to uphold the Constitution AND the Laws of the United States. Every oath taken is fraudulant. The executive and apparently most of the judicial is illegal and gained position through fraud. Any and all official act is negatable and reversable since the officials are in office through fraud and conspiracy to defraud the citizens of the country. Not one of these creatures deserve the rights of citizens of the country, or of the human being they appear to despise so greatly; there is no right or respect they have earned. Treat them by law as they have earned no recognizable rights at law. /rant
David @ 139
Well, let’s see. What was in that Continuation of Powers Presidential Finding or Executive Order that was flying around a week ago or so?
Can anyone provide me with a link to the text I’m thinking about? (My first shot at googling didn’t get me there.)
Something is nagging me about what POTUS is permitted to do if Congress in incapacitated. (Then I think: Oh, wait; somebody already did a trial run to see whether the Senate Office Building could be shut down, using anthrax.)
Blow-darts!!! Blow-darts!!!
Getch-yer-blowdarts-here, folks! The Lake has the Best Selection in the Blogosphere!!
All This Week – It’s Cheney Lumbering through “Deal-with-the-Devil” Plaza!
Many fine points to choose from:
The Leak, The 16 Words, The Niger Forgeries, Warrantless Domestic Spying, Torture, Katrina, The Patriot Act, and many, many more.
Take your pick, then simply choose one of our excellent loaner blow-guns, and step out to our grassy knoll for a keen view of Roachman’s Royal Caravan.
Elephant today – Porkypine tomorrow!
Satisfaction guaranteed!
[Mod Note; perhaps a better analogy would be appropriate next time?]
portia.vz @ 99
I have to wonder if this is not a move to “save” Bush and his so-called “legacy”. Not that there is any to save, but Karl and crew will proclaim it a victory…
On another note, does Cheney have to be impeached before he can stand trial for crimes against humanity? Could someone file charges against him, even if he is the sitting VP?
Ranking Republican on the committee is now stating that the EPA was more than forthcoming in warning the public of the risks at ground zero. Nothing to see here, move along.
rwcole @ 156
But folks will completely understand lying to Congress, illegally asking potential career hires about their religious and political affiliations, etc.
musicsleuth @ 37
This is a really interesting point. In a sense, these articles constitute a message to Libby: Cheney is vulnerable. If you flip, you’re not the only one.
Bob in HI
> impeachment- there isn’t going to be one.
I think there can be, and maybe will be. But not just yet.
What it will take is for a couple of people who were on the inside to become frightened enough to tell the truth. Some of these guys have got to be seeing the writing on the wall — Libby’s going to jail, Griles is going to jail, the DoJ underlings are in trouble, and we’re just about to get to the point where the Administration starts defying Congressional subpoenas. That’s an important line they’re about to cross, and many of the moderate Republicans I know will find it indefensible.
From the WaPo articles it looks like part of the old Nat’l Security establishment is starting to turn on Cheney. All these things add up. Some underling somewhere is going to decide to save himself by giving up what he knows, under oath, before Congress, and then things will snowball, because nobody loves you when you’re down and out.
It’s a positive-feedback system.
At some point, the conventional wisdom turns on a dime, and what was impossible suddenly becomes inevitable. We simply aren’t there yet.
Our job is to convince twelve to fifteen Senate Republicans that they have to vote for conviction to save their own jobs, their party, and their country. That ain’t easy, but it ain’t impossible.
Don’t give up. Write to editors and politicians (maybe instead of declaiming to the chorus on FDL? just sayin’). Make phone calls. Calmly point out to your low-info-voter friends what’s been lost, and what’s at stake — July Fourth is a particularly apt day for that kind of thing.
It’s about time to take it to the streets, calmly and with decorum — and there’s a Moratorium coming up. We could make that into something important.
“..damn well face the consequences”, you say….
What consequences are the Republicans going to face?
Mods – please pull my 161, and this note, too.
I’ll work on my analogies!
EllenG @ 88
Impeachment also limits pardonability, but I’m not sure exactly how — see Article II Section 2.
I sent this question to Gellman’s online chat today:
Oddly, no reply (take that as a “yes”).
EllenG @ 115
I agree entirely. The current expectation of impeachment is the Clinton model. Many younger Americans never saw and do not appreciate the gravity of expressed in the Nixon impeachment. You might argue that cable tv infotainment coverage would make it impossible to turn back the clock—I realize that might be true–but the further down the road in history we remove ourselves from impeachment, the harder it will become to restore it as a viable tool in governing. Why must it take some shocking and sensational and Nuremberg-like to justify impeachment? It takes that under present circumstances because people think politicians use it to prosecute blowjobs instead of saving it for something “significant”.
johnSwifty @ 11
George W. Bush let Cheney in. The Republican party let Bush in. They’re all guilty of being morons.
UPDATE: Comment of the day from Diane: “I can picture Dick sitting at his desk, pen in hand, writing in the margins of the WaPo.”
UPDATE 2:Dick Cheney is sitting at his desk, hand in pants, writing in the margins of the WaPo.
The Cheney Presidency is GW’s legacy.
Elliott @ 148
The President Pro Tempore of the Senate (currently Robert Byrd, D-W.Virginia) is 3rd in line to the presidency. But, that’s if the first two die I suppose.
If one resigns then Byrd might ascend or maybe there’s procedure to appoint and confirm a replacement.
Anyway, they’re not gonna put a Dem in as Veep if Cheney ‘retires’. So, maybe they would appoint the senior Republican Senator — Ted Stevens, R-Alaska. Then we could have the pleasure/horror of watching the Veep get indicted for something untoward in Alaska.
More likely, since Cheney’s daughter is already working with Fred Thompson, he would be appointed and confirmed…if Dems agree and probably if Thompson agrees to drop his bid for the presidency.
It’s a tangled web and getting curiouser and curiouser as we speak.
A contest was held about four years ago in the Oregonian newspaper here in Portland OR. Readers were asked to send in their most clever euphemisms for FARTING, to be published in the paper’s THE EDGE humor column. They published the “best” over two days. We have some very talented people here. The winning euphemism for farting was, “letting Cheney out of the bunker.” Sorry, I just had to share that. This memory is the only thing about Cheney that makes me laugh.