My favorite paragraph from Cheney Chapter Two (my emph):
That same day, Aug. 1, 2002, Yoo signed off on a second secret opinion, the contents of which have never been made public. According to a source with direct knowledge, that opinion approved as lawful a long list of specific interrogation techniques proposed by the CIA — including waterboarding, a form of near-drowning that the U.S. government classified as a war crime in 1947. The opinion drew the line against one request: threatening to bury a prisoner alive.
If you have a favorite paragraph to which emphasis should be added, please leave it in the comments….
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well then…
Teddy
Continuing analysis:
The eighth para sets up the fact that the “bybee” memorandum allowing torture was discovered and disowned, eventually attributed to John Yoo.
Ninth para fires point blank. “the “torture memo,” …, was not Yoo’s work alone. In an interview, Yoo said that Addington, as well as Gonzales and deputy White House counsel Timothy E. Flanigan, contributed to the [torture memo].”
This is the first fatal blow at Cheney. Yoo has carried this water for four years now, and seemed perfectly happy to do so. Now, he is speaking ON THE RECORD and directly accusing Addington, GONZALES, and Flanigan directly of being its real authors.
Tenth para: “The vice president’s lawyer advocated what was considered the memo’s most radical claim [that no one could restrict the President’s power to torture if need arose]” This pushes the majority of blame directly onto cheney’s lawyer.
Eleventh para: “Yoo signed off on a second secret opinion, the contents of which have never been made public. … that opinion approved as lawful a long list of specific interrogation techniques … the U.S. government classified as a war crime in 1947.”
Twelfth para: “Yoo said … in an interview [he warned] … Cheney and … Rumsfeld that it would be dangerous … to use the harshest techniques,”
MSM Take Home Message: “Cheney’s people originated the torture concept and forced John Yoo to sign off on it. He warned them it was illegal. They did it anyway.”
FN Take Home Message: “Bush’s lawyer John Yoo, a respected constitutional scholar, was forced to sign off on Cheney’s torture policy despite warning him it was illegal.”
Thanks, Teddy. I was starting to keep an eye on the # of comments. These articles are going to be fodder for many posts in the days to come. A four parter. Two more to follow and my gut says the best is yet to come.
Who even thinks up this sh*t? Burying a person alive is discussed in the White House?
Hello punaise!
looks like I missed some kind of Cheney bombshell.
hey, Loo Hoo and all, just passing through…
a 4 parter in the wapoo about cheney. gotta read it even it is isn’t froomkin. good stuff for sure, pun.
from epuville, brought upstairs
Felix, you come down from the tree line anytime you want and take advantage of some hammock time here in the trees lining the shore.
thanks Suzanne – I’ll check it out.
Best stuff since Walter Reed for the WaPo. Better in fact, because it comes just on the heels of Cheney telling congress to kiss his a*s.
analysis continues:
Twelfth para: Powell and Condi learn about the torture memo and confront gonzales over it at the white house.
Thirteenth para: “Rice “very angrily said there would be no more secret opinions [and] she threatened to take the matter to the president if Gonzales kept them out of the loop again. Powell remarked … Rice dressed down gonzales “in full Nurse Ratched mode,”"”. Condi and Powell strike a blow for righteousness and goodness; Fredo has no clue, is almost like a mental hospital patient (CCN is about a mental hospital where NR has patients lobotomized for sassing her)
Fourteenth Para: “Neither of them took their objections to Cheney, the official said, a much more dangerous course.” WTF? this is the bleeding SECRETARY of STATE and the President’s NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR. And if they talk back to Cheney, it’s “a much more dangerous course.” What is he gonna do, invite them hunting at gunpoint?
MSM Take Home Message: “Powell and Rice told Gonzales to stop the torture, but he was so dysfunctional it was like talking to a mental patient. They did this rather than risk confronting Cheney directly.”.
FN Take Home Message: “Powell and Rice tried to warn President Bush of Cheney’s terrible actions through Gonzales because they were afraid Cheney would shoot them in the face in his office. Unfortunately, Mr. Gonzales has no mind of his own and didn’t help the situation any.”
End of second topic, time for a break. Dang this is hard work. No wonder I retired!
Alfred Kelgarries @ 3
I bow to thee a thousand times for this … perspective/insight/wisdom … I will read the rest tomorrow,
now my bed calls … and unlike demi, no one is feeding me ice cream … *g*
G’nite all !!!
(waving g’nite to all the sleepy firepups)
can you imagine how awful it would be to work in the WH with all this horrible stuff?
I’m surprised someone hasn’t cracked sooner…
Good nit petrocelli and all sleepy pups.
Makes Rice look great. She comes out of Part Two with the endorsement of Powell, but afraid of Cheney. Will she be Cheney’s replacement?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 12
Nice work. You’ve convinced me that I’ve got to read this stuff.
Powell was used to deferring to Cheney from the time when he was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and Cheney was Secretary of Defense. Perhaps Condi was taking her cue from Powell. But all of this was well before the invasion of Iraq and even before Powell catastrophic appearance before the U.N.
I wonder if Broder, Novak, Krauthammer, and Hiatt ever read the news section of their paper.
But old coastie, isn’t it amazing that it’s all coming out now? All within months of each other? I’m wondering if Leahy and Waxman have given some ol’ tomatoes to key people.
Loo Hoo. @ 5
I think the last despot known to bury people alive as an interrogation technique was our dear friend Saddam. Before that, I think I once read something that Hassan II in Morocco (considered to be one of the worst Arab despots ever) did it to interrogate some of the officers who tried to overthrow him. Dickus is in good company.
Loo Hoo – I’m thinking this is an inside job… Cheney must go – not sure who the power is that is making it happen… (my best guess is Poppy and the CIA) and somebody somewhere shouted, “war crimes!” – because it sure looks that way to me…
The WaPoo article will cause even more rats to leave the sinking ship. Loose rats have loose lips.
loose rats with loose lips with sharp steeling knives in their possession!
Alfred Kelgarries @ 3
Alfred,
Thanks for the summary!
But who sez Yoo is a “respected” constitutional scholar? He ought to be disbarred!!!
The fact that even Yoo thought Cheney’s torture policy was illegal shows just how whacko it was.
Bob in HI
OldCoastie @ 21
Someone somewhere gave permission for the waapoo to print this. Therein lies the key to learning the who of who did this.
Well now, this looks like a fun party.
Oh, and Cheney’s a dick. No, wait, I mean, ah hell. You know what I mean.
Suzanne @ 22
(Spook taking a break)
The really interesting parts to me so far are:
1) Addington is DEFNINTELY getting thrown under the bus.
2) Yoo is NOT GETTING THROWN UNDER THE BUS. He is allowed to whitewash himself onto Addington. Note that he speaks of actions that are clearly not only illegal, but potential war crimes. Nazi lawyer at Nuremburg were HANGED for handing down decisions like this. I am not joking, go look it up.
3) Gonzales is being flip flopped, but generally shown to be a bliteringly incompetent idiot.
4) Cheney is NOT getting THROWN under the bus. Rather, he has been staked out at a railroad crossing with dynamite sticks in every orifice with burning fuses as a train bears down. This is not an assasination piece, this is a media Weapon Of Mass Digustion.
Geeze…
pull up a highlighter, steve a – ak is going over the waapoo bus driving over cheney
Bob Schacht @ 24
Bob, the FN parts are of course bs. I’m including them to show how carefully this piece has been written to give FN’s puppets their talking points.
Hi, Suzanne and everyone else who’s still goin’ strong -
Having another weird non-sleep nite (guaranteeing tomorrow to be equally mucked up) so will join you for a cooling dip.
Alfred K’s analysis of the latest wapo article is veddy interesting. Quess my question at this point is if anyone *really* thinks the MSM will treat this series with more than its usual vast collective yawn?
Suzanne @ 25
Bingo!!! That’s exactly how it happened against Nixon. Somehow, for some reason, what everbody already knew became hot news. I never knew who gave that signal or why.
that bus is going to bend it’s frame and blow all its tires with so many bodies to run over…
Suzanne @ 28
no its not a bus. he has been staked out over a railroad crossing with dynamite up his (ahem) with lit fuses as the train bears down.
i know, ak, but the bus does such lovely thump thumps (metaphorically speaking of course and not advocating an actual bus etc etc etc)
Waccamaw @ 30
That is the key and we have to watch for it. If the MSM “ignore” this article, then it is not for immediate public consumption (ie cheney isn’t going to be jettisoned tomorrow) but is a warning to Cheney and his allies not to press the Bushco too hard. If the MSM scream it all over using the TPM i’ve outlined for them, its party time!
Alfred Kelgarries @ 29
Yoo is a tenured full professor at the University of California, Berkeley. (I have no idea how.)
What exactly does it mean for Yoo to be “forced to sign off” on stuff he knew to be illegal? “forced to sign off” would seem to imply to me that one is tortured or threatened (with violence) into doing something or that one does it because one’s child or puppy has been tied to train tracks. He could always resign. Weakly objecting doesn’t mean one is being “forced” into breaking the law.
Waccamaw @ 30
MSNBC has it up. This ain’t gonna die a quiet death.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19403183/
Alfred Kelgarries @ 35
This isn’t any old news article. This is a four-part series, and THE establishment newspaper has taken off the gloves. Names are being named. Asses are being kicked. This comes down from the highest levels of “the establishment.” Just like it came down on Nixon. This series declares the top echelons of the Bush administration to be “fair game.”
Blub @ 37
yeap, blub, it is an attempt to whitewash yoo. not gonna be successful but it is a nice try :)
FELIX?
Loo Hoo. @ 38
KO is gonna be a verying interesting show tomorrow night. From MSNBC online to KO is about as direct as it can get.
And we’ve only seen parts one and two!
Henry Waxman had to know this was coming, didn’t he? His letter last week about Cheney being a fourth branch unto himself (which we knew from earlier Cheney OVP statements that he’d given to that Archives office, being exempt and all) was a way of focusing on Cheney before this WaPo article appeared, I imagine.
ya gotta wonder if, now that Scooter is apparently going to jail, WHO exactly is so worried about him talking?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 27
wowza. (climbs on chair and applauds wildly) It’s fascinating to see this parsed by an expert. Hope you continue this thru the rest of the series.
Blub @ 37
Like Suzanne said. Sinking ships and rats.
Suzanne @ 40
It’s kinda like “My declining credit rating forced me to rob banks. I had no choice.” :P
For anyone who’s still up,
Bits and Pieces
TeddySanFran @ 43
I’d bet good money he did. He just set the stage for it to really hit hard. My god, the man’s attention to detail is downright scary and sexy all at once. We’ve been asking for an opening volley for some time now. This may be it.
Suzanne @ 40
Yoo has written far too many enthusiastic op-eds in the LA Times and elsewhere for him to be whitewashable.
Yoo’s extreme views are exemplified by the following exchange that
occurred in a recent debate in Chicago with Professor Doug Cassel of
Notre Dame:
Some legal scholars accuse progressives of “demonizing” and
“villifying” Professor Yoo. But in 1950, the Nuremberg Tribunal
defined Crimes against Peace as:
Certainly Yoo’s guilt is no greater than that of say Joseph Goebbels,
and the Nuremberg Tribunal never got to rule on Goebbels’s guilt.
Was this first of the series?
Paints Cheney with Unitary Executive.
tw3k @ 51
Yes, that is part one.
wigwam @ 50
Good point.
Thanks, TSF
Okay, ‘pups, I am heading for my little Pride cot.
See you on the morrow, when I’m sure our legal analysts will weigh in on Cheney2.0.
Good Night TSF.
AK -
4) Cheney is NOT getting THROWN under the bus. Rather, he has been staked out at a railroad crossing with dynamite sticks in every orifice with burning fuses as a train bears down. This is not an assasination piece, this is a media Weapon Of Mass Digustion.
From your mouth to Dog’s ear! I kinda like the idea of being buried alive better but will settle for #4. *g*
p. s. to 12:03 – Parteeeeeee!!!!!!! How many days do you figure re. the scream/ignore decision to manifest itself?
——————-
Loo Hoo & wigwam – Boy, do I hope you guys are right! Guess I’ve just gotten so bloody jaded wrt to hoping for any assistance via the MSM.
I’m not a former lawyer, nor am I a professor, nor do I have a book education like so many of the lakers do. But what I do know is crooks and how they tend to act and think.
At some point, no matter how good they are at concealing their involvement in the crime(s), there comes a time when their bellies cramp up with the realization that the cops know or some other accountability agency (think IRS).
They may give no visible sign and will not necessariliy talk, taking the bullet so to speak like libby is. But on the inside, their lower gi tract turns to jelly and the sphincter muscle tightens up as if sheer force could prevent the floodgates from opening up.
Lots of puckering going on in DC this weekend and this weeks is going to get even worse. I predict a run on anti-diarrheal OTC’s.
okay on to topic three:
His Client, the Vice President
There are fifteen paras i believe….yes. I will do them in five groups of three unless topics require different breaks.
P1: first sentence puts a HUGE knife right into cheney’s back. This is the money quote people. Bush is doing this. Read: “leading lawyers began to warn that Cheney and his Pentagon allies had set the government on a path for defeat in court” Bing. Cheney and his pentagon allies…set the government up for defeat in court. Note that Cheney has “pentagon allies” like feith, rummy, and wolfowicz. Gee, what do they all have in common, let’s think….Yes. They are all depised by both the ordinary folk and the washington establishment. MSM equivalent, “Cheney and his co-conspirators Bonney and Clyde and Charles Manson…”.
next sentence is priceless. If I could write like this i’d be..dead cause my conscience would have leaped out of my brain and beat me to death. “One … was Solicitor General Theodore B. Olson, … whose wife, Barbara, had been killed less than a year before when the hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon” Hear the mournful but resolute choir strike up as Saint Olson tries to follow orders that he knows are wrong and will fail.
And here comes lew koch! “Olson[’s] … job was to win cases. Two that particularly worried him involved … Jose Padilla and Yaser Esam Hamdi”
Saint John knows these are evil men. But he is worried that Cheney’s screwup will set them free.
P2 (yes all of that was P1. Whoever did this is at the top of their game.) – Olson says the courts won’t accept cheney’s policies. The CIA feels this will prevent getting useful info out of them.
P3 — “Flanigan said … Addington … beat back the proposal to [change the torture and detention policy] “because that was the position of his client, the vice president.”" (note that flanigan was dissed in the first topic of tonight. He is being quoted on the record here against Cheney, but not totally let off the hook.
MSM Spin: Cheney and his gang of Pentagon thugs were so hell-bent on torturing detainees that they set the government up to be forced to release these dangerous men because of their bad legal opinions. Cheney forced his lawyer to prevent anything changing this, even against the wishes of the sainted federal lawyer Ted Olson, whose wife tragically died in 9/11 (cue scenes of plane hitting pentagon, swell weepy organ music…)
FN Spin: Cheney cooked this scheme up with liberal idiots at the pentagon and refused to let Saint Olson fix it. Cheney’s people acted like Lawyers and Lobbyists the whole time.”
I don’t see anything about this on CNN or FOX. Geez, what a crappy website Fox has.
Loo Hoo, I’m here. Got sidetracked over a S,N and the “Dick Cheney is so secretive…” contest.
Jack, and Steve Allen, said it LONG ago, in 1959 . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ_Nk_aPWnE
I . . . think . . . of . . . . Dean . . . Moriarty.
Damn them sparkler dims . . .
aliasofwestgate @ 12:14 -
Was it modo who said recently something to the effect that the Waxman looks like an accountant and bites like a pit bull? Spot on!
g’ night all… must. sleep. now.
Okay, next 3 paras on topic 3:
P4 – This is essential a stage setting para, but note how is is subtly slanted: “Decision … in a heated meeting in … the West Wing’s second floor … Olson was backed by associate White House counsel Bradford A. Berenson, a former law clerk to Supreme Court Justice Anthony M. Kennedy” First use of term “heated”. This is msm code for a shouting match perhaps leading to drawn weapons. Next note the shout out to Saint Justice Kennedy, who “has olson’s back”. Right here we know Olson is the good guy, before we are actually given real information.
P5 – We learn that Saint Justice Kennedy actual sent his clerk over to warn them. “Berenson [said Kennedy] would never accept [cheney’s policy on detention and torture]. … Addington accused Berenson of … a fool’s prophecy about an inscrutable court.” Addington is dissing Saint Justice Kennedy. This is bad.
p6 — Oopsie! It’s gonzo under the bus time! “Gonzales listened quietly [… and] decided in favor of Cheney’s lawyer.” Note that this is the worst possible way to phrase this. Gonzo didn’t decide on the merits of the argument by Addington. He decided “for the Lawyer”, indicating ad hominen influence instead.
MSM Spin: The most moderate Justice on the Supreme Court, sent word through very respected channels to warn about coming court problems with the Cheney Doctrine. Unfortunately, Cheney’s lawyer browbeat Attorney Gonzales into submission.”
FN Spin: “The liberal lawyer Addington beat the cheeze-whiz presidential counsel Gonzales to a pulp with trick arguments and got him to keep the government on a road to ruin.”
g’nite OC – nice to see ya back at the Lake.
So Alfred, what’s your gut feeling about what’s going to happen? Any sense yet?
Totally OT question to AK
Alfred, do you ever sleep? If you are this sharp in the wee hours of the morning, I can only imagine how formidable you must be after a full nights rest.
Waccamaw @ 63
I have no idea. I just remember there being an article in Time magazine before the Dem majority came into being in the House. The small man that everyone in DC is afraid of. *evil grin* A grocery store owner’s son with all the attention to detail implied in the upkeep of even a simple operation as that. I swear that’s where most of it came from. I WORK retail for a living and it’s not as easy as it looks. There’s no where else he would have learned that attention to detail at, short of the military. The tenacity is all his own though, i’ve my own brand of that.
wigwam @ 31
Call me a political naif – or worse – paranoid but this story must have the gang in the WH in full anxiety attack mode….adding a most dangerous element to our collective anxieties for the very survival of our noble Constitution.
larue @ 62
is there anyone, anyone, in television these days who could sit down at a piano, play, and talk to a TV audience at the same time with such effortless ease as Steve Allen? No. Way.
…gawd, I just got back from a business meeting with the stars and…frankly…have not read the article from the Washington Post? but reading AK’S point by point it sounds like a fucking disaster for Cheney…or ? but that he could be saved? help me here…to think he is “running” things and he is a moron…
Here’s a disgusting passage that I found memorable:
“Gonzales listened quietly as the JUSTICE DEPARTMENT and HIS OWN STAFF lined up against Addington. Then he decided in favor of Cheney’s lawyer”.
What was Addington’s position? He argued that the president had absolute power to declare a U.S. citizen an enemy and to lock him up without giving him representation or a chance to be heard.
Atta boy, Gonzales. You are a TRUE CHAMPION of justice. NOT.
Night everyone. And big thanks, AK.
mr paws loves Steve Allen, in fact we all do over here…
hey spidey, does do the stars say about the boosh administration? i remember you saying that the admin had been charted. looks like july is going to be a bumpy ride.
okay, i’m combining the remaining three sections into one because they are really one continuous narrative.
P7 – Ashcroft (who is currently slightly sainted) says Cheney “compelled people to think carefully about whatever he mentioned.” This is code for government by extortion, later confirmed in subsequent paragraph.
P8 – Cheney tries to put his muscle on a federal judge, only ends up ticking him off, with more harm to the government’s case.
P9 – Note how the whole thing is now “cheney’s strategy”. Bush was in cleveland reading My Pet Goat at the time.
P10 – The good us lawyers ask for “modest changes” to prevent “wrongful detention.” “Please sir, can I have some more?” (puppy dog eyes)
P11 – “The vice president’s counsel fought and won again.” US takes it in the shorts at the Supreme Court, and its all Cheney’s fault.
P12 – This is the first paragraph I don’t actually believe in, though it is there in print..”Eleven days later, Olson stepped down as solicitor general. His deputy succeeded him. What came next was a reminder that it does not pay to cross swords with the vice president.”. This is the kind of sentence historians put in history books about insane tyrants like Stalin and Richard III. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen it in a MSM newspaper in my life (all 60 years of it)….
P13 – Lots of good stuff here. Philbin is set up as a minor saint asking for a new better job, who actually helped Cheney. But “he had tangled with the vice president’s office now and then, objecting to the private legal channel between Addington and Yoo and raising questions about domestic surveillance by the National Security Agency.”. Here we get a little extra bitch-slap out to Yoo to remind him not to get cocky. We also demonize Addington for a “private legal channel”. WTF is that, did they rent a apare PPV feed on Satellite TV and do video conferences on it or what? But it sure sounds bad, doesn’t it? And he is a stalwart against the NSA’s bad evil domestic surveillance program. Funny, I thought Bush did that one. My bad, it was those evil techies at NSA (watch enemy of the state on cable, you’ll figure it out…)
P14 – “Cheney’s lawyer [said] Philbin was an unsatisfactory choice. The attorney general and White House counsel abandoned their candidate.” Note how we bitch-slap both Ashcroft AND Gonzales in one sentence here. Cowardly nerds, backing down like that! Poor Mr. Philbin, abandoned! (cut to Tom Hanks in Cast Away…)
P15 – “”OVP plays hardball,”" followed by some cleanup quotes. Notice we have gone from Vice President Richard Cheney to OVP in less that 21 paragrpahs of the same article….
MSM Spin: Cheney is a stupid, vindictive old man whose eagerness to torture people let him to set the government up to lose vital information from captured enemy combatants. He even stooped to low as to knife one of his own lawyers in the back for minor infractions.
FN Spin: Cheney almost got Padilla and Hamdi released! And then he stabbed one of his own guys in the back in front of his wife and kids. The man’s a monster, I tell you!”
Suzanne @ 68
Sleep? I’ve heard that term before…let me look it up…
spiderpaws @ 75
a prince. and Jack Paar. television actually had some class back in the day …….
Loo Hoo. @ 74
I live to serve the lake. and my dad. and my granddaughter. and…never mind. :)
spiderpaws @ 72
As AK points out, this article has been ingeniously crafted for two different audiences.
I realized that this was possible many years ago when a friend moved from California to Texas. I asked him about it, and he said that Texas was a very different place. I asked, “how so?” His prime example was that in Texas people thought that Archie Bunker was the hero of All in the Family, rather than the butt of its jokes.
So far as I can tell, Cheney fans will read that article with pride and delight.
Loo Hoo. @ 67
Bush is throwing Cheney and his whole staff under the bus (or worse). We are about to experience a civil war like never before. Holy Frak.
Congress needs to get off its collective ass and contain it. ye gods, AK. I really hope they do, since it seems Waxman likely had wind of this coming. His setup the others mentioned earlier in the week make me hope they can.
aliasofwestgate @ 69
My Dad was a grocery store owner’s son, too. Waxman’s dad would have worked his store during the Great Depression, which either ruins you, or teaches you the value of accounting for every penny. Those are hard lessons, but by the time my Dad retired, he was able to have a very comfortable retirement. Those life lessons make an impression.
Bob in HI
AK -
In your reading on wapo II, did you happen to notice any uneven editorial intervention as mentioned in a link in the last (?next to last) post? Can’t remember which paras were noted……..can go back to try and find the link for you but it will take a bit on dial-up.
Alfred,
Kudos and applause. i’m wondering if the people who gave the word for WaPo to go to press with this are not actually in fuckwad’s administration but rather in the “special club” that never leaves town. maybe you are implying this. is that even a possibility?
i’m giving your book a working title:
“The Mighty Wurlitzer for Dummies.”
Waccamaw @ 85
IIRC, it was to Laura Rozen’s piece over at War and Peace
yes, I agree, Cheney under bus or worse, just run ‘em over!!! but don’t you think it’s Pappy’s Gang trying to save the little bushie? I mean you can’t have the bush name dragged through any more mud.
I’m debating on turning the TV on. It’s almost 4.30am in MI. If this shows up on GR’s local news there’s a good chance it wont’ be totallly ignored by the media.
But it might be best to wait a few days, this soon into things. The pots only just now being stirred.
that is the big question, spidey. the who. condi? rove? boosh? pappy? the folks over at the CIA? someone gave the ok for this to be published. and that it was ok for these folks in the article to talk to the reporters.
Suzanne @ 90
I think we’re all wondering about that one, Suzanne. Any of us that have any amount of common sense.
That is the question going to be going around DC all week – who? Followed by who’s next?
what I recall re Bush’s chart is that he would have bad til the end of this month when Saturn leaves his Venus behind and moves on lightening Bush’s load considerably…not only that but he will be even more grandiose and bubble headed because of a Neptune aspect and completely and suddenly more looney, aggressice and unpredictable with a particular Uranus aspect. Gonzales is also losing a repressive Saturn and probably will come out in the clear…if he doesn’t resign…I say this because it looks like in Gonzales chart that he gets really busy with some other stuff entirely – like maybe a life change.
Another thought: remember how Foomkin was keeping track of the silence of the waapoo editorial board (hello fred hiatt) regarding the lack of an editorial taking a stand about libby and potential pardon after libby’s sentencing.
That silence may now be explained by this set of articles.
Suzanne -
That’s the one & bless you! Just got back from looking w/no success…..shoulda known someone would have it right off the bat.
spiderpaws @ 88
But they have to have a reason for throwing Cheney under the bus. Which works?
* As you suggest above, Pappy’s gang is trying to save Georgie-boy with a double message: Weakening Cheney’s power, and warning Georgie Boy that Cheney is toxic to his health.
* They’re just tired of Dick’s meddling in their affairs and just want him out.
* Bush has a plan to make Condi VP and thereby secure the succession if things go bonkers, so they need Cheney out of the way.
* Someone (The President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB)? See Marcy’s post at TNH) is paying Darth back, big time, for being punked by Cheney previously.
* The faction that wants to prevent a war with Iran wants to weaken Cheney and keep him busy with other tasks.
* Other?
Which one makes the most sense?
Bob in HI
My pleasure to have been able to help out, Waccamaw.
About time for this tired pup to head off to bed herself. Was a busy weekend with all that blankity blank housework and the open house today. I plan on getting lots of sleep, resting up, and will be here tomorrow nite, same bat time, same bat channel.
g’nite everyone
well I remember a predictive astrologers report from Bulgaria and it was a lulu…not many astrologers will really do predictions but this guy says that Bush & Cheney’s “handlers” would finally tire of their stupidity and remove them and Bush himself would probably be locked up somewhere …I think his words were “taken away somewhere and kept apart so he couldn’t hurt anything” It was a chilling report and it described Bush as being impotent and an alcoholic who still drank in secret and that he was in a constant state of anxiety living in absolute fear all the time of some unreal scenario happening…ther
Suzanne @ 94
Hmmmmm. I seem to recal something from Cohen last Tuesday.
aliasofwestgate @ 83
why would congress want to contain it? maybe they can take some prisoners but i think the more neocon casualties the better.
wigwam, isn’t cohen doing op-ed pieces. i was talking about the actual editorial board of the paper, speaking in the voice of the paper.
goodnite suzi and back at you on Tuesday night
Part 4: Unacceptable to the Vice President’s Office
12 paras, gonna try to do em all at once because despite my pretensions I do have to sleep…
P1 – sets up Rummie as Cheney’s mentor and friend. Disses disloyal (to bush) republicans.
P2 – “Rumsfeld made clear, emphatically, that the vice president had the lead on this issue,” said a former Pentagon official with direct knowledge.” Rummie says all torture policy comes from Cheney.
P3 – Savage body blows and knife strokes into Cheney here. “Though his fingerprints were not apparent, Cheney [had backdoor access to the OMB via a former staffer] Without normal staff clearance, … the vice president’s lawyer added a paragraph — [to the controlling bill]” This para bitch-slaps Cheney five ways. First the use of “fingerprints not apparent”, msm code for inappropriate secrecy and under the table dealings. Second the “backdoor access via a former staffer”. This indicates Cheney operates not on the merits but by calling in favors from old associates whose careers he has helped in exchange for their loyalty. Good Americans don’t do this, y’know. Third: “without normal staff clearance”. This implies a breach of security and/or legal due process. Equivalent of saying the OVP was acting illegally. Fourth: “VP’s lawyer” reference. Americans hate lawyers, so this is an added slap that Cheney uses them for his dirty work. Fifth: “inserting provision at the last minute” msm code for gaming the legislative system. Jeesh. I’ve never seen such vicious writing in the msm before, this is usually stuff you find on darkened web sites about aliens controlling us with Trilat mind rays.
P4 – BS language is reported. Then “Before most Bush administration officials even became aware that the subject was under White House review, Addington wrote … veto” any such bill.” Note use of the lawyers name again, in the context of completely blindsiding the “administration officials”. Innocent, I tell you, they’re innocent! Cheney’s lawyer did it all, alll!
P5 – Abu Ghraib resurfaces. Bush is “deeply disgusted”. His guy England is getting things sorted out.
P6 – England sets up a major player meeting to finalize the changes in policy at AG (funny how those two letters keep coming up together…). A guy named Waxman is setting the agenda (he will become important later, stay tuned…)
P7 – Uh oh. Waxman says the information getters are totally confused and doing nothing but downloading iTunes until they get some solid orders on the whole thing. He suggest “bedrock legal language” in full compliance with Geneva Conventions Article 5. then comes the next bitch-slap: “That was exactly the language — prohibiting cruel, violent, humiliating and degrading treatment — that Cheney had spent three years expunging from U.S. policy.” That B*ST*RD!
P8 – The clean cut, honest military lawyers in the room all agree with Waxman and England. Note that the source is speaking on the record here.
P9 – ooh! bad guy music! There are two “holdouts” in the room: “William J. Haynes II, a close friend of Addington’s … was one of two holdouts in the room. The other was Stephen A. Cambone” Now, Addington is not in the room. The fact that he is friends with underware man the third really has no influence on anything, so why bring it up? answer: being friends with a Lawyer of Dick Cheney’s is bad, that’s what. Guilt by association, the cheapest kind. we’re on a budget here.
P10 – This para tells us, among other thing, that THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL LIBBY IS GETTING A PARDON! To wit: “Waxman, … circulated a draft [to return to geneva convention rules]. Within a few days, Addington and I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, Cheney’s chief of staff, invited Waxman for a visit.” Like Don Corleone invited people to go fishing. Right. We now use our very thrifty Guilt By Association to smear libby, by mentioning him with Addington (who now wears devil’s horns and carries a pitchfork). The image of these two satanic beings smiling evilly as Waxman marches innocently into their hell of horror turns my poor stomach…right.
P11 – This is the money para for this section. “Waxman returned from the meeting with the message that his draft was “unacceptable to the vice president’s office.” … When Waxman replied that the official White House policy was far more opaque, according to the report, Addington accused him of trying to replace the president’s decision with his own.” Gee, that’s how the MSM works. Guess this is where they learned how…
P12 – “”The impact of that meeting is that [the proposed reforms] died”
MSM Spin: “Cheney even went so far as to prevent the military legal teams from following President Bush’s direct orders to stop the horrible practices of Cheney-designed torture at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, resorting to almost godfather-like intimidation.”
FN Spin: “Cheney’s tools Addington and Libby did a Don Corleone on the poor DOD. And the torture at Abu Ghraib went on, and it was Cheney’s fault!”
…a big fight is looming with the Congress & WH in July says the cards, a really nasty one some people are saying
Waccamaw @ 85
I see them, but they make things WORSE for cheney , not better. that was no OVP friendly edit job, IMHO.
recapp something for me please
how is it possible to find these things out, are these idiots keeping records of it?
are those records now public?
AK @ 1:37 -
Interesting that.
Many thanks for your input at the Lake tonite and in the past. Hope you’re able to get a few hours of decent rest sometime soon………..it’ll be well deserved!
Bob (#96):
i think a several of your possibilities are parts of the answer. i doubt that the oligarchy, as i will choose to call them, gives a rat’s arse about Fuckwad but they feel that giving Cheneycakes the boot sends a message and will tidy up the unseemly mess. it won’t really, of course, but enough so that the rest of the rats can whistle past the graveyard and disperse like Feith, Wolfowitz and Rumsfailed have already done.
We know how infuriated Cheney was when the Joe Wilson op-ed on the Niger Uranium thing hit the presses, so we can imagine Darth’s reaction to this series. It doesn’t really matter if someone was throwing him under the bus. The mere fact of exposing so much of his dark dealing will infuriate him.
If he doesn’t have a heart attack due to stress, how will he counter-attack?
OK, now, off to bed.
Bob in HI
Bob Schacht @ 109
i’m guessing he will call in all of his markers. if his minions are really loyal the muck will really get raked.
For one, Novakula should be parsed ……
Alfred-
That’s my impression too. Libby is Cheney’s boy, and now that Cheney’s getting tossed, so is Libby.
As for who’s getting this info to the WaPo, remember a few weeks ago when Waxman rescheduled his visit with Rice because he was getting soooo many new documents and additional info the committee needed extra time to prepare? And Cheney’s been undercutting Rice’s efforts around the world for some time.
If Rice is behind this, she’s better at bureaucratic hardball than I thought.
oh. mah. gawd. What the hell were they thinking? Trying to pressure a judge to give them the ruling they want?
And we still have parts 3 and 4 to go. Wow. Just, wow.
part 5 Total Indifference to Public Opinion
11 paras.
P1 – “Over the next 12 months, Congress and the Supreme Court imposed many of the restrictions that Cheney had squelched.” THis is a direct bitch-slap to Cheney. Honest men don’t “squelch” things. Crooks and Tyrant are Squelchers.
P2 – “”The irony with the Cheney crowd … is that the president has now ended up with lesser powers than he would have had if they had made less extravagant, monarchical claims,” said Bruce Fein, an associate deputy attorney general under President Ronald Reagan.” First, use of “Cheney crowd”; msm code for band of rogue bad actors, like a bureaucratic mod. Good version is “Cheney Team”. Next we bitch slap Flanigan again, no idea why… “Flanigan, a founding member of that crowd,”. Ooo, not just a member of the “crowd” but a “founding member”. Extra blood on his hands! Finally, “Even so, Cheney’s losses were not always as they appeared.” Sneaky little Frak’s still getting away with it! Rollo Tomasi has nothing on him!
P3 – Congress blows away Cheney’s little empire of torture. “It was, by any measure, a rebuke to Cheney. Bush signed the bill into law. “Well, I don’t win all the arguments,” Cheney told the Wall Street Journal.” When the word “rebuke” starts being used in the MSM, look out! That is code for “opening the can of Whup-Ass!” Only evil bad people are “rebuked”. Bush signs the bill, but cheney laughs it off. WTF?
P4 – OMG OMG OMG Cheny has “agents in congress!” who knew? “Yet Cheney and Addington found a roundabout path to the exceptions they sought … as allies in Congress made little-noticed adjustments to the bill.” Note the “little-noticed” qualifier. Skullduggery at the crossroads! Midnight language changes! The Dirty Rats! And don’t forget “roundabout”, meaning “sneaky, dirty and underhanded. Its the dreaded “Cheney and Addington” again. Where is Batman when you need him?
P5 – The Evil Midnite Rewrite got Cheney what he wanted, to wit: “The final measure confined only the Defense Department … No techniques were specified for CIA officers, who were forbidden only in general terms … Crucially, the new law said those [limits] would be interpreted in light of U.S. constitutional law. That made a big difference to Cheney.” Hamstringing the loyal military while continuing to run black ops out of CIA using deceptive legalese. We can visualize Cheney rubbing his hands and cackling.
P6 – BS about “shocks the conscience” as a determinant of what is torture. Money quote: “Cheney … in an interview with ABC’s “Nightline” [said] “what shocks the conscience” is to some extent “in the eye of the beholder.”"
P7 – Out come the long knives again. “Eager to put detainee scandals behind them, Bush’s advisers spent days composing a statement in which the president would declare support for the veto-proof bill on detainee treatment.” Note we see that we are putting “scandals behind us”. These events haven’t been characterized that way before in MSM. Also note “veto-proof” comment. Even if Bush wanted to keep torturing, mean old congress won’t let him! “Hours before Bush signed it into law … Cheney’s lawyer intercepted the accompanying statement “and just literally takes his red pen all the way through it,”" First we have Cheney’s lawyer, not the OVP or Cheney. Worst possible actor is named. Then “intercepted the accompanying statement”. WTF? do they like toss these thing around the WH in frisbees, or what? Cheney and his “lawyer” don’t even WORK in the WH IIRC…but in the EOB. And the “red pen all the way through it” does not indicate a thoughtful and well-reasoned review, it comes across as bullying.
P8 – “Addington substituted a single sentence. Bush, he wrote, would [use the law as] the unitary executive branch and as Commander in Chief.”" In other words, Cheney’s lawyer rode roughshod over the entire West Wing and put in a singing statement version of “Law? What Law? We don’t need no steeenking laws! I am the unitary excutive deciderer.” Note that Cheney’s lawyer is now also to blame for signing statements. Who knew?
P9 – Three fast body blows in one very short para: “Cheney’s office had used that technique often.” Shorter version: Cheney made President Bush do bad things. Lots of them. Everything that has gone wrong in the last 6 years is actually his fault! “Like his boss, Addington disdained [government informal agreements].” This is MSM code for “he’s a lying backstabber”. The ONLY currency you have in high level bureaucracies and politics is your word, the “government informal agreements”. “He had no qualms about discarding … Cabinet secretaries,”. Cheney and Addington just told the whole cabinet to go cheney itself. We don’t need no steenking cabinet! NOT the way to endear yourself to most of the power elite, whose lives DEPEND on those cabinet jobs and their system. This is like revealing that Microsoft actually only uses Macs cause their own stuff is so bad. Wait…we knew that…
P10 – “Top officials from the CIA, Justice, State and Defense departments unanimously opposed the substitution … after weeks of consensus-building by national security adviser Stephen J. Hadley.” Cue the choir and the heavenly organ music, for we truly are on the side of the angels here.
P11 – WOOPS! Harriet Miers goes under the bus! Write if you get work, Harriet honey! “None of that mattered. With Cheney’s weight behind it, White House counsel Harriet E. Miers sent Addington’s version to Bush for his signature.” Now this is about as relevant as the fact that some nice man or woman from somewhere brings Bush his morning coffee. Unless we want to once again use our very thrifty Guilt By Association tar brush again. Lets do it and then say we didn’t. “said a former White House ally. “What both of them [Cheney and Addington] miss is that ….. the great failure of the administration [is] a complete and total indifference to public opinion.”" So Cheney and Addington are actually the reason for Bush’s low approval numbers. Who knew?
MSM Spin: “Cheney lost in the supreme court and congress over his love of torture, and then tricked President Bush (via the disloyal ingrate Harriet Miers) into using an illegal signing statement to ignore the will of the just and righteous american people, resulting in the cratering of the President in public opinon polls.”
FN Spin: Harriet Miers misled the President into accidentally continuing to allow torture, which was of course the first of his major impeachable offenses. If we had only known then what we know now, the horrible Dick Cheney and his legal enablers would not have been able to destroy the wonderful and truly righteous President Bush. Woe! Woe!”
Guys, I’m sorry. I have flat run out of steam with two topics to go. I’ll finish this up tomorrow morning or early afternoon when dad and I get back from the doctor.
Please use my parsing to set up your own questions for the panel tomorrow. And please don’t give me huge amounts of credit. I’m just a fat lonely old man trying to do a little good for this brave country while he still can. (Ghod that’s awful. I better go to bed.”
(poof)
Night, Alfred. I’m right behind ya.
**’puter off**
sleep well, Alfred & OtherWa. it’s time for me to head in to work.
Digby has more great stuff (surprise, surprise!) for those who want to hear other voices on the matter.
Tschuess!
TheOtherWA @ 111
the only way cheney is getting tossed is if the administration themselves (read rice) is indeed responsible for this leak
if this is an internal leak cheney stays and they become more brazen
I point everyone to abu torture…still here
cheney is more important then abu torture so if torture stays cheney stays
so again, if the administrattion themselves are the ones responsible for this then cheney goes
now who could we point our fingers too
IS IT COLON POWELL?
I have long ago lost faith in the patriotism of powell but perhaps it was an internal battle of loyalty to commander in cheif vs loyalty to country and consitution
IS IT RICE?
rice is in love with bush but I think as a maternity figure, if so, she will do what’s neccessary to protect her child
in addition, if she thought cheney was going after her then cheney is toast not rice cause no matter how bad rice is she has more on cheney then he has on her, if she thinks he’s gonna bring her down then she’s gonna sink his ship first
so firedogs, who do YOU think it is giving us this info?
wigwam @ 81
I didn’t get to comment on this earlier, WigWam. Unfortunately, the duality is for two different audiences, but the message is the same. CHENEY IS A DICK. The MSM stuff is for people like us who might somehow have not yet realized that in fact, CHENEY IS A DICK. The FN stuff is for his red-meat audience, who are being coded in on the reality that DC had in fact, been screwing them all the time. It is my belief that they will start to turn on him very soon, for a number of reasons I’ll try to explain tomorrow.
And remember, my experience in this field is limited; it was my job to help the us survive a nuclear attack from russia, by among other things, helping write control scripts for the surviving media outlets after the attack. As our media changed so did my job (and then I left it to run simulations of the whole business on computer and in wargame-style meetings) so I may be guessing some of this dead wrong. But not all of it, I just can’t see that…
Mornin’, all -
MSNBC is supposed to have one of the reporters from the wapo cheney series on this a.m. The blond (minus scarbrain today) referred to it as an “expose” [throws away the accent] No indication as to time.
Can someone leave a note wrt to what’s happening coverage-wise on the story from other idiot-box locations? Have to leave shortly for a day away from the toobz but will check back early evening.
Good morning, pups. The NYT today has Roger Cohen, who compares Sarajevo and Baghdad, and Nicholas Kristof writing about choices in eastern Congo.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
Coffee and tea are hot and ready, and the biscuits are out of the oven. Oh — please take some of that fresh basil. It’s growing faster than we can eat it.
Waccamaw @ 119
The “Blond” is Miska Brzezinski, daughter of the former secretary of state under Carter.
Marion in Savannah @ 120
on the way to panera bread cbs radio had as there lead today a girl scammed into paying a million dollars to date pedro martinez
would up with a look a like and the scam worked for a while but she eventually found out and now she’s “suing to get some of her money back”
so that’s the lead story today when our country has exposed the highest level treason in her history
oh, I just had a thought;
powell’s chief of staff (wilkinson?) has been exposing cheney and hot on his trail since powell left office
is the source wilkinson?
Thanks, raven -
Is she supposed to be the token liberal? Apologies if the descriptor offended but other than calling her a female, was pressed for time in coming up w/something better. Using the term “expose” didn’t win her any points at this end of the line. Gotta run; will check back on the liberal question early evening.
perris @ 117
Okay, here we go down the rabbit hole:
1) There are major players inside the admin who are speaking on the record here. That requires Bush’s OK in some fashion.
2) This story was done for some time (weeks, a month?) and held on the Wapoo’s EB’s orders.
3) The sophistication of this piece is totally beyond even the writers at Wapoo, IMHO; parts of it were written by assassination political specialists. They would only do that if they got ironclad assurances from BushCo that it would not be taken personally.
4) The piece exonerates Bush to the max in the first two parts and will presumably continue to do so in the other two. It also exonerates some of his people but tosses several others under the proverbial bus.
5) My conclusion is that Dick Cheney has pissed GWB off for the last time, and GWB has decided Cheney must go. However, he does not want to to the hatchet job himself.
6)So, President bush, by allowing this article to be printed, is telling ALL the people out there who are vulnerable because of Cheney’s policies that the time has come to offer up their boss on the altar of the MSM and the congress. The actual audience of this entire series is in all liklihood one man. Scooter Libby.
7) Remember Fitz has NOT closed his investigation and all but indicts Cheney in his current court filings. If Libby flips, gives up Cheney and even Rove (yes even the Rovester is expendable in this game. For BushCo, loyalty is and always will be one-way, you to them.) then fitz will toddle back to Reggie and say, “suspend his sentence while he cooperates with us”. If everything goes down well, Libby gets the fine and loses his law licence, no jail time. And Cheney is goneski.
8) This article series is Libby’s “go code”. He will read it and realize he now has Bush’s approval to throw cheney under the bus. Question is, will he?
mods, what did I screw up in my last post?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 125
not a mod here but your post looks fine to me, if you mean there is another post waiting moderation that I don’t see, sometimes charachters or specific initials initiate an automatic hold by the filters here
sometimes it’s inadvertant but it’s to avoid some spam
perris @ 127
it is 125 on my screen, a detailed writeup about who the intended audience is for the entire series. Do you see it?
I get to start sooner as I’m further east. No one has suggested what to me looks the most likely source of this stuff. There’s an election coming folks. Who gets to be in charge when there’s an election coming? Who sees Cheney is now seen to have overreached and even very Republican people (that’s what this is all about) think he’s gone too far.
KARL?
Chetnolian:
Do you see a post 125 from me on your screen? I want to see if it’s me or the spam filters.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 118
I don’t think this piece was “crafted” to appeal to two audiences, I think this piece was written to appear as even handed as possible
for instance, why would it be titled “pushing the envelope of presidential power”?
this is front page, save the country NOW information, this should have a tabloid front page heading, this should read;
“CHENEY GOES BEHIND PRESIDENT’S BACK”
“VICE PRESIDENT INSISTS ON TORUTURE METHODS THE UNITED STATES PROSECUTED NAZI’S”
“IS THE VICE PRESIDENT CLYNICALLY INSANE?”
or my favorite so far;
“THE VICE PRESIDENT MAKES DECISIONS SO DEPRAVED AMERICA PRESECUTED NAZI GERMANY FOR THE SAME DECISIONS”
this isn’t an “ingenious” crafting, my opinion is that this is a piece wapo was forced into publishing because the author told them it would be published somewhere else if the post didn’t publish it
I believe there is a heavy editing hand and I would LOVE to see the original story as the author wrote it and the original title
Does anyone remember the famous cartoon when the Kaiser sacked Otto von Bismark as Chancellor of Germany, called “Dropping the Pilot”. I’ve just found it but am too old or stupid to do links. It’s what’s about to happen to Cheney, with a bit of luck.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 127
you might have been granted some moderation ability on the fly, I don’t know who you are but judging from your post you are an accomplished journalist?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 129 –
what is the time stamp of your comment? (the numbers are not always the same for everyone, so that don’t uniquely identify your comment)
AK
No 125 says “What happened?” the last detailed one I have is 117.
perris @ 133
ghod no! I am a retired “spook” who happened to spend most of his working life writing and rebutting DOD position papers. I still have the scars to prove it. FDL is being FAR too kind to me. There is far less here than meets the eye.
selise @ 134
3:46 am.
I’m going to try to post my part of the thing on its own. We’ll see what happens.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 135
let’s not get ahead of ourselves , I made a leap of conclusion that is probably incorrect
a mod will tell you shortly, they must be taking a nap
Okay, here we go down the rabbit hole:
1) There are major players inside the admin who are speaking on the record here. That requires Bush’s OK in some fashion.
2) This story was done for some time (weeks, a month?) and held on the Wapoo’s EB’s orders.
3) The sophistication of this piece is totally beyond even the writers at Wapoo, IMHO; parts of it were written by political specialists. They would only do that if they got ironclad assurances from BushCo that it would not be taken personally.
4) The piece exonerates Bush to the max in the first two parts and will presumably continue to do so in the other two. It also exonerates some of his people but tosses several others under the proverbial bus.
5) My conclusion is that Dick Cheney has pissed GWB off for the last time, and GWB has decided Cheney must go. However, he does not want to to the hatchet job himself.
6)So, President bush, by allowing this article to be printed, is telling ALL the people out there who are vulnerable because of Cheney’s policies that the time has come to offer up their boss on the altar of the MSM and the congress. The actual audience of this entire series is in all liklihood one man. Scooter Libby.
7) Remember Fitz has NOT closed his investigation and all but indicts Cheney in his current court filings. If Libby flips, gives up Cheney and even Rove (yes even the Rovester is expendable in this game. For BushCo, loyalty is and always will be one-way, you to them.) then fitz will toddle back to Reggie and say, “suspend his sentence while he cooperates with us”. If everything goes down well, Libby gets the fine and loses his law licence, no jail time. And Cheney is goneski.
8) This article series is Libby’s “go code”. He will read it and realize he now has Bush’s approval to throw cheney under the bus. Question is, will he?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 136
don’t do that.. it will just cause more work for the mods.
if, after your name, you see something like “pending moderation” it just means that it got caught in the filters… happens all the time.
a mod will be here momentarily.
we’ll get to see your comment then.
selise @ 139
okay. I’m a sysop myself, so I certainly don’t want to start their day on a bad note. :)
selise @ 138
ya, I have no “3:46″ post so it’s probably in moderation
Chetnolian @ 135
my conclusion was that this four part series was meant to look favorable on the outside but actually authorize Scooter and other ex-Cheney staffers to cut loose on cheney. Time will tell, of course.
p.s. i refreshed the whole page and did not see a comment for AK at 3:46… which is what leads me to think it was caught in the filter.
selise @ 143
Not a biggie. I saved the text. We can see it later. I have to leave at 7:15 CDT to get my elderly (91) dad up for a doctor’s visit at 8:30. Rush hour traffic, for my sins…
Alfred Kelgarries @ 141
isolate, amputate, cauterize and attempt to control the damage?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 141
I agree, this might be a “cut loose the vice president”
that would make it rice that is revealing what went on
however after reading the piece I am more likely to believe it was powell or powell’s chief of staff
there was too much joy in the anectdote comparing rice to nurse ratchet…only rice, powell, and possibly their advisors would now that story…it’s either one of those two or one of their trusted aids
selise @ 145
That and prevent Nancy Pelosi from becoming president. If bush goes under with dick gone, she does that automatically. And that would be the ballgame for the people who have done bad stuff for Bush and Cheney who expect to stay and keep doing what they are doing under Bush’s rethuglican successor (probably Thompson but who knows?
AK — your comment has been released. Something may have triggered automod, but it’s free now.
perris @ 145
it’s way bigger than one or two people. here’s one revealing quote:
my bold.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 146
is cheney toast?
I don’t think so, not yet anyway
as I said before, if this is an unauthorized leak from say powell or his chief of staff then cheney is gonna stay and the administration will get evne more brazen in “cornered wild animal syndrome” as one of our posters coined the phsychology
however if this is an authorized interview then it’s “everyone for themselves, throw over whatever it takes to survive” syndrome
that would mean cheney is toast
Scarecrow @ 148
Thanks. I foolishly tried to resent it, kill the second copy please. I AM curious what triggered the automod, I didn’t see any funky stuff except in the description of the type of article (bad word begins with “a”)
I haven’t slept in 21 hours and its showing. but I have to stay awake to take my dad to the doctor. I’ve rigged a C*ff**n* IV…
selise @ 148
that is stunning but in analysis it looks like that “two dozen” source that might be a compilation of archived statements because an expose that robust would be known a long time ago by the vp…don’t forget his ability to monitor every single chair in the house
Scarecrow @ 149
i refreshed the page again… and now i can see it too. thanks!
selise @ 153
please evaluate my logic. this is being done with insufficient sleep…
perris @ 153
cheney isn’t omniscient
TheOtherWA @ 112
That’s the paragraph that hurt’s Libby’s appeal chances the most IMO.
selise @ 156
true, but if this is that complete an expose with that many direct sources it would be hard to keep secret
I just had another thought though;
ytu know how we’ve been reading things like “president strangely silent on libby pardon”?
it is strange, isn’t it?
this might indeed be orchestrated by people close to the president [err…karl rove]
could you imagine something that bizzare?
karl rove plays his ace in the hole to salvage the president’s legacy, help the progrssives with an expose as powerfull as this and blame everything on cheney
JPL @ 157
that should have been blazened in bold across every front page in America if we actually had a fourth estate
Perris, The President has been tied to Cheney for so many years, that I’m not sure that he could survive without him..
How many posts do you think Redd is preparing today?
perris @ 157
Don’t forget that while Bush’s approval rating is in the mid to high 20% range, Cheney’s hovers around the mid to high 10% range. And by controlling Cheney’s departure, Bush can then bring up say, Condi, and groom her for his replacement. Congress may not like Condi, but they really couldn’t refuse her the veep slot, particularly if she promised to clean out all the pcckets of cheneyism. And she would, too. She’s already doing it at state and other agencies as fast as she can.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 155
i think what you’ve written is possible… but i just see too many alternative explainations to conclude as you have.
- i think the writers are capable of this – given that it wasn’t rushed, that they had pleny of time (weeks or even months maybe)… and that they saw it as one of the major accomplishments of their careers and wanted to do it justice.
- i don’t see bush spearheading this. rove maybe, or possibly some loose association of the comey/olsen/mora types.
- motivation is personal/professional self preservation, put the blame on cheney (where indeed most of it may belong) while trying to protect the presidency, the party and the country from what they see as potential damage if the truth is revealed to the american people. keep the DFH away from levers of real power.
- with regard to libby, not sure he is the primary audience for this… but he will certainly see it and it can’t buy affect his calculations. where to his loyalties lie? with the VP? or if the VP is already wounded, will libby calculate that since cheney is going down there is no point to sacrificiing himself to protect the VP?
altogether too many unknowns for me to draw conclusions. i remain agnostic (and extremely curious) about the back story and where this will all lead.
selise @ 162
no fair! you’re being logical, and early in the morning to boot! :>
Alfred Kelgarries @ 164
i cheated. i slept.
I would really love to read Larry Johnson’s analysis of that piece, if someone knows him, man he would make a great guest blog here right about now
perris @ 166
we can watch for it at http://noquarter.typepad.com/
Okay, folks. I’m out the door with daddy. Will get in touch later today after I get him home and sleep. Be excellent to each other!
selise @ 167
an epiphame me thinks
you know that fitz was commisioned because of a direct request from the cia right?
the president tried to shove her exposure under the rug, the cia would have none of that
well, the CIA obviously had stuff to hold over Bush’s head in order to get the investigation
you know how I said I couldn’t believe the cia would be satisfied with a libby conviction, they wanted the archtech of that treason?
errr…libby is not the object of their justice
me thinks the bill is being called
HOWZ THAT SOUND?
Just a little OT, but isn’t Cheney’s daughter prepping Fred Thompson in matters of foreign policy?
perris @ 169
perris@158
That’s how I see it. And if Rove were behind it, don’t assume it’s to help Bush, as he’s not up for re-election. Just imagine if Karl could engineer a Republican success from the current mess, what a great guy he’d seem! No bizarre atall to someone who simply does the math. Principles aren’t in it.
selise @ 167
Chetnolian @ 170
The Republicans will stand behing Cheney..
Morning No-Show Joe and so far the height of the program seems to be Joe catfishin’ down south with a big catch in his arms. Fishin’ in Bush’s stock pond?
Mica Bryzynski interviews Jim Gilmour, minor Repub candidate for prez…oh wait, that’s redundant. Daddy’s little princess would do just fine if she’d get over her papa issues. Yes, dear, we know you’re entitled, we know you’re part of the in-crowd, puh-leeze…enough already.
Black guy of the week got in a good line about the staged Christmas show the Bushies taped this weekend. Hmmm, maybe they don’t think they’ll be around by Christmas?
Are there no network ready Asians? No Hispanics of humor? How about Sikh of the Week?
MSNBC has obviously decided this is their morning show and they will pander.
Gawd I miss Imus.
JPL @ 174
only if they’re told to, they are marionettes
it looks like they are about to be told cheney is fish food
P.S. Gilmour running on values and tax cuts.
I’d settle for competence, myself.
Prairie Sunshine @ 177
I would LOVE to see someone run on hedonism…no kidding
I think if someone ran a campaign OPOSITE the “relgious right” they would win
things like;
“the church can stay out of government and out of a single persons sex lives”
“school is to teach science it’s not to teach the mysteries of the supernatural or magic to our children, we are the most advanced society in the world and we enjoy our position because we allow parents to teach religion and insist school teach science, the two coexist in perfect harmony”
JPL @ 170
you aren’t thinking along the presidential lines of Bush> Clinton> Clinton> Bush> Bush> Somebody> Cheney, are you?
MORNIN ELIOT!
perris @ 180
and Good Morning! to you, too!
“I’m the Decider…”
Evidently not.
I think that Fred Thompson might have some problems with Liz Cheney on his team..
OT- Barton Gellman(sp?), author of the Cheney series, coming up next on Imus-for-a-day.
JAYT updates please..
anyone know how to post over at larry johnsons’s site?
I can’t get to the comment box and I don’t see any link to register
JPL @ 185
Rehash of article so far.
Scarecrow upstairs
Alfred — in case you come back here and I miss you in threads upstairs: BRAVO!! Most excellent work!
My take:
– Poppy had enough and worries for HIS legacy, not merely Dubya’s;
– CIA highly motivated to aid Poppy (read: gave him the weaponry);
– The succession plan is as suggested in previous threads: Condi gets the hand off;
– We are now free to seek impeachment of both Cheney and Gonzo.
I am thinking that Fred Thompson’s time in the spotlight is dwindling, too. There will be something nasty that emerges before January 2009 about him.
raven @ 187
Exactly. The only new thing I picked up is that Gellman seems to personally have no problem with Cheney at all. “We’re not in the judging business.”
The man seems unaware of what he’s written – or perhaps someone has already had a good ‘talk’ with him already.
Sounds like the next two installments are gonna be about the ‘good Cheney’, or at least the extent to which he doesn’t always get his way.
Thanks Alfred. that was a great read. appreciate your taking the time to do it. Huxley wrote in Brave New World REVISITED that to lesson the chances of another hitler’s germany, propaganda analysis should be taught in the grade schools but I guess David Rockerfeller didn’t go for that idea. ;o.
Gives me a little hope that the torture will stop and some people will be held accountible. harpers magazine had a strong article about the fears of the CIA that they would stand trial for war crimes and they did not want to continue these atrocities being demanded.
The idea that Yoo was “forced” to sign off on Addington’s torture memos seems far-fetched. The Post’s equivocation here seems to match its conclusion that Cheney is not the mover and shaker in this administration, but is just doing Bush’s bidness. That credits Bush with more leadership and Cheney with more humility than either has shown.
If Gonzales redefines emotional obsequiousness in seeking to pleasure his el patron, Yoo redefines it intellectually. But he is altogether a sterner and more potent intellect than Gonzales.
Instead of moving up and down in the water like ‘Fredo, as Addington’s wavelike force spread through him, Yoo added to that force, doubling the wave height. He bent his intellect to Dick Cheney’s purposes, which mirror those of an Asian strongmen from Singapore or Korea more than a Founding Father from Tidewater Virginia.
Yoo joined Addington as one of Cheney’s “banal bureaucrats”. He helped create the legal framework that convinced people that the unthinkable was legal and permissible, even required, because it was serving Good/God fighting Bad/the Devil. He and Addington may not have stuck the ice pick, or sodomized or half-drowned their victims physically, but their legal opinions did it virtually. They made the reality of that behavior more likely, and harder to detect and punish.
If war crimes have been committed by this administration, a proposition that seems highly likely, they are among its perpetrators. John Yoo should be in the dock, not teaching “constitutional” law to the best and brightest students in America.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 27
Lovely!
I love it when a lot of coincidences come together.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 82
The one person I don’t see mentioned is Georgie Boy. Could it be…could it just be that this is a hit piece sent from George to Dick (with no love) in response to something said or done by Shooter?
It looks like a Vietnam soldier whose “shit” is coming unglued.
I wouldn’t think this is the first volley or the last in this virtual explosion of the administration.
First rat to blow up all the others wins!
spiderpaws @ 104
The Executive can’t touch Congress, but Congress can destroy the Executive. I’ll take odds on Congress coming out on top.
Chetnolian @ 172
Yes, that is what I was thinking . When I heard that Rove’s interim US Attorney appointment to Arkansas had resigned and started working for Fred Thompson’s campaign, I had the feeling Rove was preparing a move and his colleague was preparing the way. Rove needs to get out from under the crushing Bush legacy and find a winner. If he set this article up, he might also be repaying Fitzgerald for 5 visits to the grand jury.