I am, to put it mildly, not Rahm Emanuel’s biggest fan, but his response to Dick Cheney’s claim to be exempt from executive branch oversight is priceless:
Today, we discovered that everything we learned in U.S. government class was wrong. Evidently, the Vice President does not consider himself a part of the executive branch, and therefore believes he can obstruct meaningful oversight and avoid being held accountable. If the Vice President truly believes he is not a part of the executive branch, he should return the salary the American taxpayers have been paying him since January 2001, and move out of the home for which they are footing the bill.
CREW piles on, and their take might be even better:
Under his argument, if Mr. Cheney is not subject to executive branch security requirements, surely he must be subject to Senate rules.
To safeguard sensitive information, in 1987 the Senate created the Office of Senate Security, which is part of the Secretary of the Senate. The Security Office’s standards, procedures and requirements are set out in the Senate Security Manual, which is binding on all employees of the Senate.
(…)
In addition, Mr. Cheney and his staff would be subject to investigation by the Senate Ethics Committee, which has the responsibility to investigate allegations of improper conduct which may reflect upon the Senate, including violations of law and the rules and regulations of the Senate.
Melanie Sloan, executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington said Mr. Cheney’s arguments raise new questions:
“Since there is no fourth branch of government to which Mr. Cheney could belong, by claiming the Office of the Vice President is within the legislative branch does Mr. Cheney agree that he is subject to Senate security procedures?”
Now, it seems to me that, as CREW observes, Cheney must be in one branch or the other (or both) but there’s no way he can be in neither. And if he has to pick just one branch to belong to, I would think it would behoove him to pick the one controlled by his own party. Not to mention, y’know, the one that his nominal boss is in. Because, call me crazy, but Cheney’s claim that he does not belong to the executive branch sounds like an admission that he does not work for the President. Or, indeed, for anyone. While this is probably accurate, I’m pretty sure it was never intended to be common knowledge.
If you want a little more serious coverage, check out this LA Times story (registration required). My favorite bits:
In his letter to the vice president, Waxman said two Cheney staffers — including Libby — have been criminally prosecuted in the alleged illegal disclosure of classified information.
(…)
“Your office may have the worst record in the executive branch for safeguarding classified information,” Waxman wrote.
(…)
“Here’s a guy who raises ‘executive privilege’ to historic levels to exempt himself from all rules and oversight, and now he says he’s not part of the executive branch?” said [Berkeley Constitutional scholar Gordon] Silverstein. “Here we have a subordinate part of the executive branch asserting independent constitutional authority even against its own superior. It is flabbergasting.”
You’d think that this is the sort of thing that a bold, decisive leader like Dubya would want to clear up boldly and decisively, but so far the official White House line appears to be, “We don’t really know if he’s right or not, but it’s none of the legislature’s business how we enforce executive orders.” But if Cheney’s part of the legislature…
Of course, the simplest explanation is that the Bushies just make shit up so they don’t have to come right out and admit that they find the Constitution too confining, but what are the odds of that?
Related posts:
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes David Swanson, Daybreak: Undoing the Imperial Presidency and Forming a More Perfect Union
- Leon Panetta Begs and Threatens for Consensus Rather than Oversight
- Dick Cheney Asks Obama to Wave His Magic Wand
- Could Cheney’s Lawyer’s Leak Break through the Cloud over Cheney?
- Executive Privilege and the Cheney Interview Documents





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zunoed?
zed?
Hey Eli!
Hiya, LL!
Eli!!! Go, go, go.
But I just got here…
Great post, Eli (as usual), and I can’t wait for the day when all of this really bites Cheney in the a**…
Cheney belongs to the Imperial Congress. A seperate and yet unknown 5th branch of our government.
You may call him Darth.
Thanks, LL. I think Cheney is just a wee bit less bulletproof than Rove.
Bush still considers Rove an asset, but it might be dawning on him that Cheney’s a liability.
it is to laugh. Cheney’s only functional role is that of breaking ties in the Senate. He has no actual role in the Executive Branch unless or until the President dies or becomes incapacitated and unable to serve (how could we tell?). Heck, in the past, the VP was the guy who came in second. The Founding Fathers put a VP in the Constitution just in case. For a quick succession. My guess is he is part of the Legislative Branch. So let’s see what the Senate can do to enforce their own rules. Oh Sarge….
Hi LL, Alfred, everyone!
I see no inconsistancy in Cheney’s attitude, as his notions seem in line with the Bush philosophy of this prez being a ‘unilateral executive’.
Cheney is not part of the Executive Branch.
Cheney is not part of the Legislative Branch.
Cheney is only the back-up for Bush, with a few duties and any extra jobs Bush gives him.
The fact that Cheney is claiming authority he does not have, leads me to believe that he and the Neocons, using bad advice from Addington, are trying to grab power, and challenge the real Executive Branch led by the President (via Scalia), to obtain perpetual power because he can never be elected. They have NO intention of relinquishing power. That is obvious to me anyway.
FWIW,
I called Levins office today and got the standard “HE hasn’t had a chance to review the comments and has no opinion on the matter”.
When o’ when will our congresscritters stand against this shit.
I just don’t get it.
[Plops into the hammock swinging between two sycamore trees next to the lake]
Evening, everybody!
Eli writes:
The simple answer is usually the correct answer.
Eli @ 9
haha. Rove better be bulletproof. he is Bush’s bulletproof vest! but you’re mistaken about one thing, Bush is Cheney’s bulletproof vest. Bush is an empty suit. Cheney is the real power is behind (and just to the left) of the throne. behind that curtain.
TiredFed @ 10
I don’t think Bush has ever been capacitated. He better watch his back.
Coup D’etat.
Hi Margot!
Is Deadeye Dick also in that special fourth category: Animal, Mineral, Vegetable, Dick Cheney?
hey MP, nice move there ;-)
dakine01 @ 16
The simple answer is usually the correct answer.
Slashing up the Constitution with Occam’s Razor.
LoudounLib @ 22
Gotta show up early to get the hammock.
Mutant Poodle @ 21
His heart pumps glycol. Which is why the FDA has approved it as an additive to anything.
GordonM @ 25
I would have guessed formaldehyde.
Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Cheney’s ‘boss’ has conversations with God.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 27
Does God talk with kind of a snarl and make throttling motions with His hands?
Kayal on KO said that Gonzo is terrified of the Constitution. He coupled Cheney with Gonzo (I’m not sure about that)…anyway, the Constitution will kick Cheeeeneeees butt ultimately. He also said that he has been at a meeting of lawyers in Bar Harbor and Conservatives and Liberals alike are furious about the Cheney claims and the claims of the unitary executive theory, mainly it seemed aiming at Addington.
Mary McCurnin @ 18
yeah, cuz Cheney is standing right behind him all the time. Creepy, ain’t it?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 27
Who grunts a lot, just like Cheney.
TiredFed @ 10
TF, you have files for me?
Now is the time to subpoena the shit out of him and see if he claims executive privilege.
Mutant Poodle @ 21
he’s certainly bigger than a breadbox.
LS @ 29
I hope someone asks Cheney to explain how he came about this epiphany in 2003, when the scales fell from his eyes and he realized he was free of all executive restraints.
I don’t know if anyone else watches the Tudors, but I’m kind of reminded of Henry’s sudden “realization” that his marriage to Catherine is invalid and must be annulled immediately.
TiredFed @ 30
Cardinal Richelieu. Linky.
Mutant Poodle @ 15
Hey, MP! (mutters under breath about not getting the hammock again…)
Hugh posted this earlier today… I thought it deserved mention here.
I’m deep into EPU land but I would just like to point out that Article II (The Executive) Section 4 (Disqualification) states:
The removal of the Vice President is discussed under the Executive Article although it would actually be the Legislative Branch (Article I) who would do the impeachment. This is a clear indication (along with more than 200 years of Constitutional history) to all but a vicious and criminal thug like Cheney that he is in the Executive Branch.
I should also point out that judges can also be impeached although they are under Article III but as the Constitution makes clear:
That is if they behave poorly they can be removed and the mechanism of that removal is impeachment and conviction by the Congress.
Members of Congress can not be impeached but both the House and Senate can punish members according to the rules that they have set up to govern themselves. (Article I, Section 5)
LS @ 19
I taught I taw a coup d’etat.
I did! I did taw a coup d’etat!
Alfred Kelgarries @ 36
that fits. W is the D’oh!-phin
Cheney’s true position in our government is apparently also undisclosed.
Margot @ 11
Evening Margot!
Alfred Kelgarries @ 32
still nothing on PACER. strange eh? guess they’re kinda slow over there at the appeals level. oh well, at least old Larry Robbins was nice enough to their appeal up on their company site. Walton’s opinion on the appeal was pretty funny. Christy is putting together a post (probably coming up tomorrow).
Hi Eli!
When I first saw that sign, I thought it said “Barnacles of Government”
I’m not really wrong, am I?
TiredFed @ 43
no problem. will stand by.
Eli @ 35
Yeah — and there is a certain resemblance between Great Harry and Teh Dick, too…
***WATCH OUT!!****
Eli’s coming
Girls, you better hide your hearts!
punaise @ 40
groan ;)
Elliott @ 44
Not really, no. The Ship Of State could use a good scrubbing.
Eli @ 35
They tried to ask Perino that today, and she just flubbed and fluttered. I didn’t get that she was protecting the VP one iota. Maybe they are getting ready to help throw him under the…whatever..
Alfred Kelgarries @ 37
Evening, AK. I might leave it later and go for a swim.
Jacqrat @ 47
I love that song!!
Eli @ 41
It’s all Addington up.
Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two-thirds, expel a Member.
Is Jefferson (LA) still in the House? Nancy ought to use this one – she’d gain a lotta street cred for Dems.
BTW, this came up on a previous thread; Cheney’s role as regards the navy, in the constitution. Unfortunately for him, I checked the enlistment oath for sailors, and it swears to the President, not the Vice President. I assume the officer’s oath is similar. Sorry ’bout that, Darth. No Seven Sailors In September this time.
Mutant Poodle @ 51
good! yes! I hear the water’s very nice today! I’ll even keep the hammock warm for you while you swim…:>
LS @ 50
Yeah, that was my last link. She punted on the question of whether Cheney was in the executive or not, but was very insistent that the executive order was solely Dubya’s to enforce.
Eureka Springs @ 53
That’ll be the next thing. LOL. I’m sorry, we are not liberty to discuss that, because it is under investigation…er..em…he is under…no…I mean…I’ll have to get back to you on that.
Cheney is a cardiac disaster and he is still grabbing more power. He knows he is a dead man walking and it must really piss him off. Who is Cheney’s political heir?
Eureka Springs @ 53
Ghod, not another pun thread. I SWORE I’d not toss another pun grenade tonight, I really did…
jayt @ 54
I believe he still is there but has resigned all his committees. IIRC the precedent is the member holds the seat until convicted or resigns. If convicted, the most likely action is the move for expulsion but it is kinda difficult to expel prior to conviction.
Steve @ 59
Darth Vader
Alfred Kelgarries @ 60
I think they’re nicknamed “punapples”.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 60
well, you know the great one is in the house…
Eli @ 57
The money quote was “Dicky Cheney’s office SAYS it is in compliance with securing classified material. The President’s office IS in compliance.” That is unprecedented in this administration, the first major crack in Festung Big Time.
realworld @ 62
“I find your lack of Feith disturbing.”
Alfred Kelgarries @ 65
Nice, I missed that. Even his boss doesn’t know what he’s up to.
It might have something to do with Larry, franklingly speaking. Y’know leaks of classified info and all…
Alfred Kelgarries @ 65
Dick Cheney’s office says all sorts of things and they’re all flat out lies.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 60
Not when Punaise is amongst us! 8-)
Okay, I think I get this. Think of Cheney as Schrodinger’s Veep. He is simultaneously a part of the Executive Branch and part of the Legislative Branch, until such time as you attempt to observe him. Then, the probability wave collapses, and Cheney becomes part of whichever branch you have no authority over.
“the Bushies just make shit up”
yup, they are like a 5 year old trying to talk her way into the entitled cookie jar before dinner. total unadulterated BS. never has the word ‘Bullshit’ taken on such greater meaning than when the Bushies open their mouth!
Elliott @ 69
The only true statement anyone in the Bush administration has made lately is the one that they’re not going to close Gitmo.
Eli @ 67
True, but it is more serious than that. In that context (and i suspect TiredFed will back me up here), using “says” is the same as saying “claims” or “alleges”, ie with a huge load of connotation of possibly not the case. The Festung Big Time answer would have been, “The OVP and the OOP are in full compliance with all relevant securing requirements for classified information. Next Question?” Didn’t go down that way, and I see it as significant.
Dang, do you think Chain Gang 4th Branch illegally leaked classified info to Larry Franklin etal. to stir shit up???? When did that happen? 2003???
y’all @ 45
If you’re talking about Fitz’s filing in reply to Libby’s appeal, emptywheel’s got the PDF at her place. It’s 837K in length.
Roddy McCorley @ 71
That must be why Tweety calls him CHIney…
I told this to EVERYONE a LONG time ago;
the closer we get, the more we expose, the more brazen these people HAVE to become
they no longer are burdened with some kind of veneer that they obey the constitution they know that we know they DON’T
cheney is mad, he is a mad man, I also told everyone the closer we get the more bizzare his actions will become
NOW IT’S TIME FOR THE DEMOCRATS TO DEAL WITH REPUBLICANS
we can promise the anything and everything, we can promise them no democratic endoresed challenge in the next election, we can promise them pork
WE HAVE TO DEAL
we have to get these maggonts OUT of the administration and I AM CERTAIN THERE ARE REPUBLICANS THAT WILL CLIMB ON BOARD
all we have to do is deal
I think Digby was on this a while back, that Cheney thinks he constitutes a fourth branch, and because he is both he is subject to the rules of neither. Or something.
And then he shot them all in the face.
Jane Hamsher @ 79
The branches of government are like primary colors, you see…
I’m sorry, but I cannot believe we are still discussing Cheney’s hubris and Pelosi STILL has not got people drawing up articles of impeachment.
Where does the Solicitor General stand on this? What is Louis Fisher’s take on this and the people at CRS?
Can’t we just tag Cheney’s ear and release him into the wild with the rest of the hyenas and jackals?
OT..Remember when the Pentagon said we don’t do body counts any more? There are so 1960’s. Well they are back.
Reuters: U.S. Kills 68 Militants So Far in Baquba Operation
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSCO
Elliott @ 69
it’s bizaare…as SOON as we find out another lie he climbs on all the TEEvee shows AND REPEATS THE LIE THAT WE KNOW AS A FACT IS FALSE
he is a mad man, I think he is actually clnical
democrats must deal and fast
LS @ 77
I will only say this once.
NO QUANTUM MECHANICS. Period. Anyone attempting further QM will be required to go clean Shroedinger’s Cat’s Litter box. And yes, I misspelled Shroedinger.
Oily Dick’s absurd claim of global privilege is a last ditch, desperate bluff to avoid his inevitable fall from power.
He’s knows he’s the target of multiple investigations.
Which will come first, impeachment, indictment or war with Iran?
.
ES how about an R & C you bitter bitter man
Roddy McCorley @ 71
No, in this case when the probability wave collapses it reflects back on the observer. Usually as 28 guage shotgun pellets, but sometimes something bigger.
perris @ 78
Do we really have to promise them anything other than “We won’t be able to remind the 2008 voters that you stood up for this lawless administration again and again”?
perris @ 82
The insane leading the stupid…
Jane Hamsher @ 79
And that, to me, is the perfect example of the fear this man wielded at one time. He shot a man in the face apparently while drunk off his butt on a hunting trip, and THE MAN WHO WAS SHOT HAD TO PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE FOR IT. The was the “orwellian moment” for me.
Eli @ 67
Yes, well, he is the delegater in chief.
perris @ 78
You got that one right!!! No American will live under a Dictator (ummm) once they all realize they are. It’s like dueling dictators…LOL
Hi Jane,
I like the pictures you put up on facebook from Take Back America
TiredFed @ 64
not only that, it’s his own post to trash…
(Eli lets down his self-imposed pun-muzzle on rare occasions, to the delight of many)
Steve @ 81
Linky no worky…
Roddy McCorley @ 71
OK, who let the quantum mechanics work on the car?
Elliott @ 85
Go ahead, twist my arm.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 89
Yeah. Kinda like, Or…well…he shot me in the face…and I almost died…I’m sorry..I was in the way…
I liked Dana P’s explanation today that it’s really just a teenie, tiny, itsy, bitsy portion of the Executive Order that’s in question.
Reminded me of the “handful” of administration staff with RNC accounts.
Mighty big hands ya got there, Dana.
Jane Hamsher @ 79
I referred to this as the Chinatown defense this AM: My daughter, my sister, my daughter, my sister. Etc.
Except no one is slapping Cheney everytime he switches.
The future?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_drEFOaPaK8
Eli @ 87
the wing nuts keep thinking there will be a turn around, for instance a catastrophy that will elevate the opinion the wing nuts have for this guy
they are planning something BIG, cheney has NO intention of giving up what he believes is his birthright.
cheney is mad I am telling you this
even if we could expect to get support, that won’t happen until the eleictions, we CANNOT wait for more elections
they will continue, more torture, more depleting our armed forces, more likely blackwater will be in control
we have to get this done as soon as possible and if that means dealing, well that’s what politics is all about…we have to deal
Eureka Springs @ 96
I recently made the accidentally that Dr Pepper is actually rather tasty with a little bit of scotch… Or without.
Eureka Springs @ 96
OK
Other Pat @ 98
Monica on anti-steroids.
LS @ 97
I’ve studied some japanese history. Part of their cultural heritage involves humiliating people under a person in authority and then making them apologize FOR BEING HUMILIATED. The last fifty years of western style governments have worked hard to get it out of their system, but Cheney’s behavior in that case was really very similar…proving that sadistic bullies are not culturally based!
Bioy, Eli! That graphic at the top explains so much. I feel better now. We can all go home.
P J Evans @ 76
wow. Thanks! no, we were talking about the original Libby filing to get bail on appeal. stil hasnt shown up on PACER.
Ed*ard Teller @ 106
You can thank Rahm for that one. Every once or twice a year he comes out with something good…
TiredFed @ 107
Did I understand that judge walton also got to submit a brief on the appeal? THAT would make interesting reading…
Eli @ 102
How can anything made with Dr. Pepper be considered tasty?
Roddy McCorley @ 71
In the original thought experiment cyanide was involved…I tried to think of something clever using that and the above statement…I deleted it..GITMO is very hot in the summer.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 105
Exactly. One should turn around and “bow” to the ego. Cheney and Bush’s ego rule. They are completely unenlightened. It will be their undoing. They will rival each other like two uncut male dogues.
Elliott @ 110
You don’t cook with it, you drink it…
Jane! How goes it? Isn’t the weather here marvelous? A rare nice summer day in DC. Can’t wait to see what the mighty FDL team has in store for us next week. Got to go read Fitz’ filing over at Marcy’s place now. later!
Elliott @ 110
You a Philistine. I no talk to you.
Eli @ 115
You’ve got to try Dr. Pepper Imperial. Made with Imperial sugar. I kid you not.
…I’m a Pepper
Speaking of Cheney, here is Marcy on the ongoing Scooter Saga at TNH: LINK
LS @ 116
Fourlegsgood is sending me some Dublin Dr Pepper (cane sugar, I believe) in exchange for cheesy movies.
Check it out, good stuff:
http://www.dublindrpepper.com/
LoudounLib @ 117
he’s a pepper, she’s a pepper
OK, just for funsies, was checking out a Local LA blog and saw this headline: Tom Cruise Buying the Galaxy?
Turns out he’s not buying the Milky Way. Maybe a soccer team.
Whew.
Eli @ 119
Sounds good!!
I think Armitage is the Pawn tossed away to protect the Bishop Rove and the King George. Libby is the Rook who is sacrificed for the Queen Cheney.
Mutant Poodle @ 122
With those Scientologists, you never know.
I wonder if *he* knows it’s a soccer team…
“Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though you’ve already said that!”
And I would have said it again even so. Got caught in a loop (must be a thread on its way) and got this message on refresh.
Frank33 @ 124
Check.
Mutant Poodle @ 122
He’s a Scientologist. They think they already own it, no need to buy.
TiredFed @ 126
Shhhhhh…that’s how you get zed…tee hee..
Cheney claimed he had Executive Priveledge when he stonewalled on his Energy policy meetings. Someone is paying his bills. This is just a bullshit excuse. The real reason he says this is because….
GONZO is the head of the DOJ and he’s not going to do anything about it. It doesn’t really matter what Cheney says because no one is there to enforce the law as far as he and Bush are concerned.
I’m about to rant, but this is really bothering me.
TiredFed @ 126
And for the english speakers among us…?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 110
My understanding was that he issued a written ruling backing up his sentence and further explaining it. Can’t remember who but someone called it a warning shot for the appeals court.
Mutant Poodle @ 122
Well he is BFFs with Little Danny Snyder, who owns the Washington Redskins. Maybe he wants to be the West Coast version of The Danny.
AZ Matt @ 118
oo, I missed this, thanks
GeorgeSimian @ 130
Rant on baby..
GeorgeSimian – You are not alone.
LoudounLib @ 133
Don’t know if our local soccer fanatics can deal with the constant losing.
MP, touche! ;-)
LS @ 135
rachael maddow had a gues on who came up with a GREAT idea.
defund the vicepresident’s office, make him pay for his staff, his board, his meals, his travel, EVERYTHING untillo he complies
that’s GOT to be the quickest way to get this ball rolling, this CANNOT be swept under the rug
these guys are in it to steal, the more we expose them the faster they will steal, they will hang onto the reigns of power untill we wrestle them from their claws
this is NOT going to be over in the next elecition, there MIGHT NOT BE A NEXT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION
the president has the power to suspend the constitution, to suspend congress, to suspend elections
DO NOT think this is not in the planning stages as we SPEAK
Alfred Kelgarries @ 110
yup. now let me see where that got to…
Durbins rant on Cheney on cspan now, FYI.
TiredFed @ 140
Thanks. I’m wondering if the revolt of the judiciary is finally beginning…
Moving on is bullshit.
It’s already been declared by the popular culture that we just have to wait Bush out. They say, EVERYBODY wants him gone, but it’s not going to happen until 2009, so let’s just concentrate on what’s next. So we have all this press on the 2008 campaign like we’ve already moved on.
But this is all part of the spin.
When the next President gets into office, he will have access to all the files that Bush/Cheney kept secret and he will be able to present clear evidence that they broke the law, but he won’t do anything about it, because the spin is already that we have to move on. They will say that the past is behind us, and we have to fix what’s broken now and forget about the past.
Which means that, if we don’t deal with Bush/Cheney/Gonzo now, we might as well forget it. They have all the power they need unless Congress steps up to the plate and takes it away from them. Otherwise, they are going to continue with their total contempt for the law.
Impeaching Bush may be impossible, but impeaching Cheney should not be, and impeaching Gonzo seems like a no brainer. At least it’s a start.
thanks ES, watching now
Eureka Springs @ 141
ooo thanks :)
dakine01 @ 133
not only that, but there’s some not so subtle dissing of Scalia in a footnote (where else?). still looking for the link. selise, you here?
GeorgeSimian @ 143
Stepping up to the plate has not been Congress’s strong suit, unfortunately. If they can’t even take a stand against the war, I can’t see them mustering the political courage to impeach… anybody.
Doesn’t mean I like it, and I agree with you that after the Bushies are gone they’ll all be left alone, even though they should probably be subjected to multiple criminal charges.
GeorgeSimian @ 144
like I always say, impeach Cheney first!
Alfred Kelgarries @ 110
I believe what you are looking for is here at nolo’s place.
ahhh. here’s a copy. Walton Opinion
I think impeach Gonzo first. WTF are they waiting for?
c’mon fellowpups – dont we know cheeny is above the gov’t? in a grouping all his own? and yes wayyyyyyyy beyond measly law….after all look at all he’s gotten away with…..shooting, perjury ok not proven but WE know he’s a liar – manipulating the war to benefit halliburton( isn’t war profiteering treasonous or at least illegal)…and yet he still walks amongst us
thank you Helen. I’m a little slow tonight.
GeorgeSimian @ 144
Waste of time..they couldn’t get votes for the no confidence res. The House could impeach but there is no way in hell that they are 66 votes to convict; any Republican for anything. They could have pictures of Gonzo in bed with small children and a goat and it wouldn’t help. The best thing we can do is push the Dems to put these fuckers in front of Federal Grand Juries after 01/20/09.
On C-Span, Sen. Dick Durbin was flaming Cheney including “Dereliction of Duty“.
Now Spokesliar Perino is defending Cheney.
Eureka Springs @ 96
jeez, I still got nothin’
you’re not a limey
you’re not a tart…
*sigh*
daydreaming: Leahy taking on Cheney at an SJC hearing
here is the dialogue guys, watch for it cuz it’s comming;
“there is no provision to remove a sitting president from office in a time of war, congress granted the president war powers and every force neccessary in the fight against terrorism…this includes maintaining office for the sake of continuity”
you watch for that cuz it’s comming
Steve @ 154
Well, Gonzo would merely claim he was protecting the children from the goat.
TiredFed @ 154
You’re welcome. I spent some time at work today reading it. Walton is not a happy camper. He is PO’d that they are using his thoroughness against him.
I checked NBC nightly news this evening just to get an idea of what they considered top stories. Cheney Exec. not Exec. (outside of the law) and the soon to be released CIA documents were among the top.
Let’s hope Cheney stays at the top of MSM news.
perris @ 139
You are right in my book Perris. They have planned this for years, and continue to plan in their thinktanks. I’m just seeing some infighting that might just play out in our favor, but maybe not. We will not lose this country. Any attempt at a coup will be refuted by the 300,000,000 patriots out here, where we are. Push them into the corner and pick the chickens up by the collar and inform them that the Constitution rules, they don’t. They don’t stand a chance ultimately. I just hope someone with power takes action before it comes to that.
juslin @ 153
betraying the identity of a CIA agent is giving aid and comfort to the enemy – treason. he ordered it. we all know that. the circumstantial evidence is pretty clear, but we need firsthand evidence – i.e., testimony. Who was in the room when Shooter ordered the takedown of Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame Wilson?
Mutant Poodle @ 160
That’s the first laugh I have had today.
and since he’s declared himself not a part of the exec branch cant he be charged with perpetrating a fraud?oh man the shit this bunch has pulled on we the people is soo prison worthy… IMPEACH NOW!!
LoudounLib @ 157
does the honorable Senator Whitehouse get to question. too?
Steve @ 155
It’s not that cut and dry. After putting up evidence in front of a senate, with national attention, live tv, Bush’s ratings continuing to tank, other scandals every day, and by Sept in Iraq with nothing getting any better there, tell me there isn’t a decent chance of convicting Gonzo. Nobody likes him anyway.
GeorgeSimian @ 143
No he won’t. Bush will ship his records out before he leaves office to his “presidential library” which is not under gov’t control.
He did this with his Dad’s records (kept them from being looked at by the gov’t archives) and I have to believe that he will, by executive order, do the same for himself.
I don’t remember the exact shenanigans, but John Dean’s Worse Than Watergate covers what he did. He’ll do it again. He can’t afford not to.
Mutant Poodle @ 160
What do you mean? He’d claim he didn’t remember anything!
Elliott @ 167
Absolutely!
TiredFed @ 164
HOLY CROW!!! I just had another epiphame
if the vp claims he’s not part of the executive and waxman is able to prove he therefore has no executive priviledge, this opens the doors for the fitz to prefer charges
I think so anyway
For Lahoma. I will be gone when you get here tonight. Be back around dawn. Here’s the tune you wanted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..Y&NR=1
perris @ 158
Yeah. Well I’ve got tools in my barn, and I guarantee you this country will show up en masse equipped, should that happen. It might come to this, but it will also come to that.
Elliott, I appreciate the fruits of your labor.
Helen @ 161
yeah, but he got some funny digs in there. and he was thorough. I had the same thoughts about the Appointment Clause issue (been there, done that on delegations for years), though in much more primitive form. Walton hit it out of the park.
perris @ 171
DING, DING, DING
Jane Hamsher @ 79
Jane Hamsher, you are a funny, funny woman.
GeorgeSimian @ 169
now there’s a novel tack from this crew
to coin an oft-used phrase from my fundy days…… satan is indeed busy and residing in cheeny….yeah i know the correct spelling….choose my way ;o)
OldCoastie @ 177
Agree. I laughed my butt off when I read that Jane!!!!!!!!
GeorgeSimian @ 143
There used to be a rule in diplomatic circles, which essentially said, “when you hand descends to the holster, all negotiations stop.” Actually setting out to impeach gonzo, darth, or chimpy is the throw down moment, time to skin the smoke wagon and set to work. (sorry, channeling Kurt Russel in Tombstone here…) So the point is, you only get to do that ONCE. If you win, fine, but if you lose you’re either dead or as good as. The democratic leaders in the congress know this, and are therefore taking the approach we now see. It is slow, painful, and seems not to be getting results.
In fact, it is getting MAJOR results. Has anyone noticed that Chimpy isn’t pulled EP to prevent miers and ralston from testifying under oath to the congress? Why? reports suggest he is afraid to do so, because it would make it seem he has something to hide, LIKE NIXON. recent polls show his popularity at nixon pre-impeachment levels and heading lower. I think the man is now genuinely afraid of impeachment and conviction. Did you hear that today the secret service has put out a press release saying chimpy will get ONE HUNDRED AND THREE bodyguards for the rest of his life? he won’t get those guards if he gets impeached and convicted.
As noted above in the thread, cheney is getting less and less support from chimpy. chimpy wanted to give the go ahead to close Gitmo yesterday, cheney leaked the meeting and so it didn’t happen. don’t think chimpy forgets stuff like that.
gonzo is a walking dead man and he knows it. he loudly announced today at a gathering of state attorney generals that he was “staying all 18 months” like it was the greatest thing in the world. Like the little boy announcing he is “king of the world” just before mommy swoops in and finds the mess on the floor. impeaching gonzo is a waste of time and that’s why it’s not being considered. when darth and chimpy do the perp walk, gonzo will vanish like smoke in a wind tunnel.
And more and more of the people who the administration REQUIRES to support them to just SURVIVE are turning on these losers. There are literally about fifty spears in the air RIGHT NOW, any one of which, if it hits home just right, could result in a wave of public rage so vast it may sweep them all away at once.
And as for the idea they are planning on a false-flag operation to suspend the constitution and declare martial law, see my comments above about the little boy in the kitchen with the mess on the floor. Momma (the infrastructure of power in the us) ain’t amused. And don’t start with the blackwater mercs. they are being eaten alive in iraq and half a dozen other places. BW literally cannot get enough warm bodies to fill its outstanding contracts to ship food and water to the embassy in Baghdad; they are NOT going to have the manpower to back some idiotic coup play.
I feel much better now. Prozac Is My Friend.
LS @ 174
and there they will get what they’re looking for…a civil war right here in the United States of America
there will be branches of military that think it’s their sworn duty to protect the president and vice president
I see these people on the internet every single day
and there will be blackwater waking the streets and plowing down your house
they WANT a civil war, they WANTED unrest in the middle east
LS @ 163
great minds think alike. I said the same thing this morning – de-fund and deauthorize! (Mr. Obey to the white courtesy phone.) Would only take simple majorities in the Congress and Bush would have to sign the bill or get no $ for the White House, OMB, etc. Do you know that Cheney has something like 50 employees in his non-executive branch VP office, and more over on the Senate side for his non-legislative branch office?
“The vice-president is not an agency.” -Perino
“I am here today to flush it out the best I can.” -Perino
Does that help in figuring out what Cheney is?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 181
I actually *want* Dubya to live for a really long time, so he can see what “history” thinks of him.
Frank33 @ 185
Does she say what he is?
Elliott, would you pass me one of those drinks please? After listening to Perino, I need one!
juslin @ 180
haha. he will still find you when the time comes.
Eureka Springs @ 174
You’re a kind person
can I have my drink now?
Is the Ishmael who told emptywheel to STFU in her Richard Cohen smackdown the same Ishmael who used to comment here? Anyone know?
Eli @ 186
He thinks he will be vindicated in the manner of HST’s presidency.
Alfred. You’ve heard this before in the middle of the night…
My Dad, a member of a government, did not believe the Nazis would ever invade his country…My mother told him repeatedly that they would. He ate crow. He was the last man standing in the Defense department, shredding defense documents as they invaded.
Don’t ever fall into the false security that it can’t happen here. It can happen from the inside. Just like that. In the blink of an eye. If, God forbid, it happens, this country will stop it in its tracks.
GeorgeSimian @ 168
Even if GONZO was removed from office, so what? he then goes on wing-nut welfare and the good life. I think the Congress should keep at the hearings, document the obstruction and criminality and then go for prison time in ‘09.
Frank33 @ 185
If she flushes, will he be gone? or is he a “floater?”
Ed*ard Teller @ 191
I believe “Jodi” wrote the comment in question.
LS @ 192
Oh I DEFINITELY agree. I in fact think it is almost a dead certainty to happen eventually, and i’m frankly surprised it hasn’t already. But I just don’t feel THIS is the time. My spidey-sense just isn’t tingling enough.
LoudounLib @ 187
I’m sure they’ll be right up…
LoudounLib @ 191
Yeah, I know. I want to see him live long enough to become an unrehabilitated Nixon, a consensus icon of presidential badness.
TiredFed @ 194
Paging Mr. Hanky. Mr. Hanky, please pick up a brown courtesy phone.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 182
Gonzo is a major impediment to the rule of law. He should be enforcing Cheney to turn over his documents, he should be enforcing subpeonaes, he should be enforcing Abramoff scandal stuff, etc. etc.
We only get one chance. Take it. What are they waiting for? Next year? Have a little faith that when the case is explained to the people, the Senate will not be able to support Gonzo.
LoudounLib @ 191
It’ll be a long wait in hell for him on that one.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 181
OK, AK. The hammock is yours.
AZ Matt @ 186
Not in words, but her eyes say “Dick is a hot steaming hunk of funky lovin.”
punaise @ 196
2nd time today I stand corrected. Sorry, Ishmael. Maybe I’m due for a break from this stuff. I’ll just stare at the Four Branches of Government chart some more.
Eli @ 199
Hi All: Slow reader here. I just waded into the Lake and have been doing laps and thinking….
How do you think W will act post-presidency if Billy C. and Dad Bush are still chummy? And how does Jeb/Jed Clampett brother fit into the Cain/Abel mess that is W’s family relationship base?
LoudounLib @ 192
Dewey really care?
MP @202..
Thanks. (slips into hammock, sighs contentedly.) Was this in support of my rant, or in pity of it?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 196
I hope you are right, and I actually believe you are. I’m just saying be vigilant.
punaise @ 207
;-)
punaise @ 206
Only if we wish to share our Missouri.
punaise @ 206
Adlai odds against it
perris @ 159
War on terror forever and ever amen?
Eli @ 186
I actually *want* Dubya to live for a really long time, so he can see what “history” thinks of him.
That has been my opinion as well. All the healthier the world will be to see all the nations united in humanity.
Good ones, Elliott and MP, I definitely can’t think that fast, pun-wise!
Ed*ard Teller @ 191
It wasn’t Ishmael saying it, it was someone calling themselves “Jodi.”
LS @ 208
Oh I am. and so are a lot of my very, very nasty friends. In a totally non-violent way, if these little pieces of work really pull a stunt like that, we will make them wish they’d never been born. (Hint: nothing can get done anymore without a networked computer….like power generation, water pumping, sewage disposal, bank funds transfer, atm processing, etc. image how much fun it would be to try to live in a country where NONE of that suddenly worked…until martial law was lifted.)
New thread…Maru!
Mutant Poodle @ 211
Holy shit here we go again..I think I will finish reading “Deer Hunting with Jesus”.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 217
Right. We’ve got the Power!!
FYI: new thread upstairs.
If there is any value in Cheney’s argument that the Vice President is in neither the Senate nor in the Executive Branch, then a simple law by congress restricting all Congressional and Executive Branch personnel from providing any classified material to anyone in the OVP would literally put him out of business.
GeorgeSimian @ 152
Remember the No Confidence vote last week? Didn’t exactly pan out for the democrats and sane republicans (if there is such a thing), did it? Also, the American people don’t bother to know what’s going on in large part. It’s still spinable. Until we see magazines and papers that the average Joe actually reads, there will not be the groundswell needed. I can’t believe people don’t know more about this, but I spoke with a friend today who had not a clue. And this friend is a teacher. So sad.
MutantPoodle@211…
All of us from there know that Missouri loves company.
perris @ 159
Maybe that’s one reason why Clinton is pushing for deauthorization of the war.
must be a new thread. wheel keeps on turning.
Elliott @ 212
wow. just wow.
Loo Hoo. @ 223
Impeachment is different. They came close enough on the no confidence vote, but impeach entails hearings, evidence, front page stories, etc. Joe will know.
As I wrote in another piece yesterday after his disclosure, I do believe that Citizen Cheney has effectively resigned…out of a job. Let’s accept that resignation quick. He has abandoned his position; doesn’t want to play anymore. Who in the world will object? He has affirmed his decision by not playing by the rules etc.; no longer a team member…gone. Will the replacement come from Chairwoman Nancy or appointment/confirmation by the Pres. etc. And yes, by all means, quit paying his salary and take away the perks, including his Veep residence. Clean house. Don’t let the door hit, and so on. Something tells me that Lynne is not going to like looking for a new place to live. Good Night, Dick (Or, dream on.)
I was awarded a Law Degree in 1976. They did not offer this analysis, and it was just after Watergate. Not sure what part of the Constitution my law professors left out. Must be the “everything changed after 9/11″ Clause that I slept through in class.
LS @ 13
I’m lookin at the same end results, but I ain’t getting there they way you do . .
I just don’t SEE a divisiveness tween Shrub And Shooter . . .
And I see Cheney as the architect with BushCo Enterprises (daddy and pals) of all this, BoyKing is just a figure head . . .
They ALL have staked it ALL, on a grab, I’m convinced of that. This is a full on power play, start to finish, the likes our Republic has never really seen in our times (if ever since the inception).
It’s gonna be close, I’m very fraught with dread, but, we MIGHT have some hope at this point, given the Oversight Comittee’s and the trending of the spooks and the Pentagon folks.
Problem is, $ and big biz is behind the grab, to SOLIDIFY their control on the whole enchilada.
And WHO knows how many Blackwaters are out there we don’t even KNOW about . . . with the bite on anyone in the way . . . cuz EVERYONE has something to hide once out of the workingman’s role . . .
Gonna be an interesting summer, and couple of years . . . I get the impression the temp of the slow boiled frogs is almost moot, anymore.
We, the frogs, are jumping the pot pretty quick.
Question is, will they herd us back in . . . and put a lid on us.
Million dollar question . . . lives and generations and a planet at stake, too . . .
dakine01 @ 16
Sharp Razor!!!
Larue— you should be a songwriter—- and not the Dylan type. More like Jim Morrison on good stuff.
Dear Dick:
Do you and Addington really think this bullshit is gonna fly?
Look up “interposition” sometime.
Sincerely,
The Federal Judiciary
I wonder how big a “push back” Bloomberg can be to counter all these shenanigans. He has a lot of cash, integrity, I think, and does not appear to be beholden to anyone. He does not look like one to want the country run & owned by thugs. Where might he fit in putting a stop to some of this stuff?
Roddy McCorley @ 71
Also insuring a 100% probability of the quantum nausea effect collapsing upon said observer.
GeorgeSimian @ 152
They are all bought and paid for by the same 1% of the money, power and control OWNED by the 1%.
The only struggle going on is who’s gonna get the next piece of the pie . . .
We are the pie, the REST of the planet is the crust.
Unless the citizens do something, the next admin will do the same thing, only with a slower flame on the frog pot . . . n that’s the way it’s been for a LONG time . . . slow flame, fast flame . . .
I really like your #146 BTW . . . I’m waiting for the rest of the country to figger it out . . . and they’re KILLIN me with the kindness only neoliberals exude . . .
rbrab @ 233
Not sure I get you, but I’m ALWAYS on good stuff!!! Life is fun . . thanks for the props, I think?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 182
AK, you and GS are MY prozac, thanks for the enlightenments both of yas . . . we need hope, yer giving us just enuff not to panic and unload both barrels in the dark cuz we hear a marmot.
perris @ 183
N there went MY Prozac moment!!! ;-)
But, I gotta accept, your posits are MORE than logical to be considered . . . given what we’ve seen.
Mutant Poodle @ 211
Dewey Drop Inn?
ms @234…checked ‘interposition’ in black’s law dictionary…’the concept is based on the tenth amendment of the us constitution…reserving to the states powers not delegated to the us.’ with respect i ask how this applies to cheney’s attempt to be or not to be?
mahalo! for you reply.
peas!
Yet another late Friday evening White House (dump) statement release:
Bush claims oversight exemption too
The White House says the president’s own order on classified data does not apply to his office or the vice president’s.
I love the ideas:
1)Defund the office of VP
2)He claimed executive privilege with the energy commission. He couldn’t have done that unless he was in the executive branch. Which is it?
3)Try to impose the senate classification rules on his office.
REVOLUTION
UPDATE!!!
Now Bush says HE TOO is exempt from his own executive order:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0622.html
OOPS – I see Six of Seven @ 244 is ahead of me.
Sorry ’bout that.
I get the impression I’m considered a troll. It may be we are not a good fit. The main post discusses the imperial Dick. A few comments state the obvious, that he should be impeached. The Democrats seem to have no stomach for that. The great majority of the posts in this string are attempts at humor or conviviality. Conviviality doesn’t mean much to me. One lady for reasons she did not make clear, feels sorry for me and mine. That doesn’t matter either. I see the nation as halfway down the slippery slope and gaining speed. Nothing is more important than that.
The question of whether the nation is sliding down the slippery slope is a prediction. Most of what we believe are predictions. Since none of us has a perfect crystal ball, one guess is good as another. Some think the surge will work, others like myself don’t. We wait until September to find out who is correct. The same is true of any sense of urgency concerning our nation. Some say “this too shall pass.” Others worry about martial law. One or the other will be right. The question is can we do anything to influence the outcome?
We need some means to know each other’s mind. There’s no question just about any Democrat is preferrable to just about any republican, so when someone says “get involved” as a solution to our problems, they must mean work for the Democrats although the Democrats had a big win in 2006 with somewhat less than satisfactory results.
Which, though a bit off topic, but illustrates what I am driving at, brings me to Michael Bloomberg. I think he’s the best of the lot in either party. I don’t think he means to be a spoiler. I expect if he runs, and I think he will, he will be for immediate withdrawal from Iraq. The real question is can he persuade the bible belt and others that a Jew as president might not be that bad, and can he persuade enough voters to get elected? I would not want to vote for him and find us with another four years of republican rule. That is why we need a way to exchange ideas forthrightly and honestly before November 2008. Comment strings, for the most part, are not it.
I am interested in the Bloomberg thinking, per my above query about him. OUr local paper carried an editorial about him and was fairly cautionary, ex. being less than candid about his intentions while saying one thing publicly and something else in private; that his bipartisan-get along-ship is illusory in that he is always quite left in his decisions and staff choices,etc. Anyway, thanks for your post and I guess we will see what comes to be revealed about Bloomberg. I will be quite refreshed if he manages to inject alot of truth into the debate.
Michael Scott @ 234
This is dangerous. Not to sound like Chicken Little, but what happens when 2009 rolls around, and Dick must leave his suite? If he is making fundamentally absurd remarks like this now…..
Scowcroft, Weinberger and other H.W. Bushies have stated in the press numerous times that the Dick they know is gone. He literally has gone to the dark side.
Impeachment must start with Cheney.
And because I personally favor the enlightenment era and the rule of law/reason, and not any particular political affiliation, I WANT EVERY CANDIDATE, DEMOCRATIC OR REPUBLICAN, TO DENOUNCE THESE SORT OF CHENEYISMS. I think they are dangerous no matter which party is in power. There is a universality in the Constitution, and the Founders envisioned this sort of attack on the Constitution.
This is not an elitist position, and frankly I am tired of the republicans’ talking points stating that very thing. The United States as we know it have only been around for a little over 200 years. It is not guaranteed that this country, as it exists today, will perpetuate for ages to come.
This ISOO scandal is about US Code Title 44, Chapter 22 violation(s). EO 12958 noncompliance is the tip of the iceberg. Look closely at:
–EO Executive Order 12958-Classified National Security Information which governs how the ISOO will enforce US Code Title 44 statutes.
http://www.archives.gov/isoo/p…..dment.html
and
–US Title 44, Chapter 22 Presidential records. Highlights:
–Proscribes the requirement to preserve documents of “historic” significant documents, discussions, deliberations regardless of classification (Sec 2203)
–The President may not destroy items without National Archivist approval (Sec 2203)
–”Vice-Presidential records shall be subject to the provisions of this chapter in the same manner as Presidential records.” (Sec 2207)
http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title44/chapter22_.html
So this scandal is not about the ISOO. It is about the OVP attempt to escape US CODE 44, specifically chapter 22 oversight. I think the executive may exempt itself from Executive Orders. They may not exempt themselves from the US Code Title 44.
The ISOO is set up to ensure that the executive branch and its agencies properly classify information, control classified information and properly preserve information for eventual transfer to the National Archivist at the conclusion of the Presidential and Vice Presidential terms.
When government organizations handle classified items they must document:
–the creation/receipt of the item
–more important the destruction of classified information.
Detailed records are kept of classfied item destruction because if you can’t prove you burned it–you go to jail.
According to Title 44, the Archivist has final say on which items the President and Vice President can destroy, regardless of classification. To destroy anything they have to give the National Archivist a heads up and then wait for his office’s explicit permission. So any item destruction should have a document from the Archivist authorizing it.
If the ISOO properly conducted a on site inspection, unlawful destruction would be easily discovered.
Which is why the OVP stop cooperating in 2003? I surmise that as it became clear that WMD were not to be found, the OVP started a “shredding frenzy”. Thereby destroying documents of “historical significance” in direct violation of US Code Title 44.
The Bush/Cheney administrations have spent 6 years make “their own reality” it comes as no surprise that they want to create “their own history”.
Sorry for the very long post, but I routinely handled highly classified material during my career Title 44/ security/retention requirements.
One thing to smile about. Supposedly, THE most important thing to Bush is his “legacy”. Yes, he became Pres thru the machinations of Rove, Cheney, et al… however, he has let them completely destroy his “legacy”. There is absolutely nothing good that can be said about his presidency. He WILL go down in history as the worst pres ever and he can thank Rove, Cheney & Gonzo for that distinction. Hail to the Moron!