Late last night, the Senate passed its version of the Energy Bill on a vote of 65-27, just shy of a possible veto-proof majority. The Bill features a “compromise” that would raise the national auto fuel mileage standard to 35 MPG by 2020. The compromise also requires development of a plan to have 50 percent of autos be able to run on gasoline alternatives by 2015.
At the same time, the Senate apparently failed to include the renewables portfolio standard I discussed yesterday. And in an ominous victory for the oil industry, the Senate just missed getting enough votes — 57-36 — to end debate on the massive tax package that would have shifted about $30 billion in tax breaks from oil producers to renewable energy sources. Big oil still reigns in Washington.
The New York Times has the basic story on the fuel standards, and the AP story this morning and another from Reuters fills in other important details.
The “compromise” auto mileage provision retains the uniform requirement that all cars, light trucks and SUVs meet the 35 MPG goal by 2020, but it drops the proposal that the industry continue to improve mileage performance by 4 percent per year in the years after 2020. This concession was apparently enough to keep the energy bill moving over the continued objections of the auto industry and Michigan’s Senators, who had sought a lower standard for light trucks and SUVs, a later compliance date, and a waiver if the standards proved too difficult.
The compromise is strongly opposed by the auto industry and its loyal supporters in Congress. The Reuters version quotes Senator Levin as saying, “We will be continuing to oppose it . . .This is not over by any stretch.” And an early last night AP story indicates the compromise is getting mixed reviews:
Some industry officials bristled at the description of the final Senate initiative as a compromise but major auto companies had no immediate comment after passage of the initiative, which would also reduce carbon emissions.
One senior congressional aide said the auto industry and its allies in the Senate, unhappy with the amendment after failing to garner support for a more palatable alternative, had mounted a last-minute campaign to delay or possibly kill the overall energy bill.
Auto companies have said a strict requirement could financially devastate struggling Detroit companies, including General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG’s Chrysler Group.
Joan Claybrook, president of Consumer Group Public Citizen and a former head of the agency that administers CAFE rules, called the measure a “step backward” because it would give regulators and industry too much discretion. The Consumer Federation of America praised the bill, saying it will cut oil imports by 15 percent and reduce tailpipe emissions by 1 billion tons.
The “discretion” Claybook fears probably occurs in defining the steps the industry must meet. According to this morning’s AP story,
It requires automakers to make a 40 percent increase in the fuel efficiency of their vehicles by 2020 and for the first time puts SUVs, vans and small trucks under the same regulation as passenger cars.
Under the bill each vehicle group must achieve a 10 mpg increase in fuel economy by 2020 with an overall average requirement for a manufacturer’s fleet increasing to 35 mpg. Currently cars must meet a fleet average of 27.5 mpg; light trucks — including SUVs and vans — must achieve an average of 22.2 mpg.
Claybrook’s comment also suggests the auto industry’s request for a waiver if the standards prove too difficult may be included in the compromise, but none of the stories I’ve seen makes that clear. However, it wouldn’t be unusual for Congress to give the agency in charge of setting the exact standards and enforcing the compliance schedules some discretion in dealing with hardships or changed circumstances — that’s almost always the way government regulations are handled, and it’s up to conscientious regulators (or court orders) to faithfully carry out Congress’ intent. The dishonesty of the Bush Administration and its habit of appointing industry cronies who oppose the agency mandates make this traditional approach suspect, so this issue bears watching.
The vote on ending debate on the oil versus renewables tax package was a severe disappointment to Democrats. But given how close the vote was (h/t to cunctator for the link) and who didn’t vote, there’s a possibility the tax package might still have a chance if included in the House bill. According to the Times story:
In the Senate, ten Republicans and the Senate’s two independents voted in favor of shutting off debate and moving to a vote on the tax package itself. Only one Democrat sided with Republicans who voted “no,” Senator Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, an oil- and gas-producing state.
Senator Reid also voted “no” in the end, but his vote was a procedural move allowing him to bring the measure up for reconsideration later. Six senators did not vote: Barbara Boxer of California and Tim Johnson of South Dakota, both Democrats, and Sam Brownback of Kansas, Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, John McCain of Arizona and Jeff Sessions of Alabama, Republicans.
It’s not clear where Boxer was, but she’s a strong supported of the tax package; Johnson is still recovering; Coburn’s an oil industry diehard; Sessions is usually wrong on everything; McCain and Brownback were presumably campaigning. So we’re a couple of votes short on the tax package for renewable energy.
Bob Geiger has more on the Senators who worked out the compromise.
Photo by AP/John Amis; pumping gas in Georgia.



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zed!
Good morning, Scarecrow.
Detriot auto makers should have been doing something about conserving engery and designing more fuel efficient cars years ago. If they (auto makers) are so short sighted maybe they should go the way of the buggy whip.
Good morning, scarecrow. Big oil still “reigns”…Although the way they ride our congresscritters, “reins” works equally well.
Sorry to be o/t, but this touches on energy policy. I was just looking at the comments under the Cheney article in WaPo and found this by someone called critter69. Thought it was good FDL material.
Good morning everyone. I’ve made a few edits to reflect some last minute stories, so please refresh.
I would say about the benchmarks in this energy bill that they seem to have been compromised down to too little, too late. Those dates seem a long way off. The milage standards by then should be much bigger. I mean, by some estimates, we should be on a hydrogen economy by then. We’ve got to do something now.
the sad part…we are still behind China, Japan and the EU.
but hey, we almost had a coal powered car!
retirin’ in five @ 4
Well, I used “reign” incorrectly the last time. This is balance.
‘Morning, Scarecrow.
Sorry, OT, but if you haven’t read Meteor Blades’ post at DailyKos today, you should.
Not sticking around for the thread, wish that a number of the folks would come knock doors over the next year here in Michigan. The answers are far more challenging than they seem to be. We’re stuck between the climate crisis and a hard place.
Americans are in denial. Why aren’t they asking questions like:
- How much energy does it take to make one gallon of gasoline?
- How much energy does it take to make one gallon of ethanol?
- How much energy does it take to make one gallon of hydrogen?
- How much energy does it take to transport one person one mile?
Etc., etc.
No matter how you look at it, if you are using more energy than comes from the sun each day, you are depleting resources that will take millions of years to rebuild.
So, ummm, does McCain show up to vote for anything anymore?
barbara @ 13
I believe the standard Republican line is “I had other priorities.” Giuliana couldn’t even make meetings of the Iraq Study Group.
I am a mite confused as to why the UAW is fighting mpg standards. They claim, apparently, that it would cost america jobs as the public will rush out to buy “foriegn” cars sending the ‘mercun manufacturers down the drain. ‘mercun manufacturers are already in the pooper because they do not produce autos that the public wants i.e. better mileage cars. Why not use their remaining clout, while they still have some, to get the ‘mercun auto makers to be the leader in improved mpg standards thereby assuring their jobs for the future?
The average European auto gets 32.3 mpg at the moment ‘merca gets 26.something… nuts. I support unions in general but I will not buy, and have not bought, an american made auto in 30 years because I believe that they are not producing a product worthy of my money neither in mpg, reliability or in safety. To assume that a good reliable car with good mpg can only be manufactured in a non union shop is crazy but is it up to the unions to fight for their jobs by supporting the public in what they want not for the public to buy crap just because it is made in a union shop.
Good morning scarecrow
You know back in the dark ages whenI was a college student during the oil crisis in the late 70’s (remember the lines to the pumps and alternate fuel buying days?) I represented my school at the Naval Academy Foreign Affairs Conferrnce (NAFAC).
The topic was oil politics. My round table dealt with alternative enegery resources.
Folks we had the technology to be oil independant since the end of WWII. Our nation’s oil dependency is fake.
It’s like diamonds. Diamonds are not particularly rare. They are just tightly controlled by a monoply that keeps produciton low and price high all the while driving demand.
Oil is no different. We could have this nation running on methane, ethanol and biodeisel in under a decade with minimul conversion costs.
My very first car was a 1951 Plymouth. It was old when I got it. It got 21 mpg. Not much has changed in nearly fifty years.
looseheadprop @ 16
links please? this is a bit counter intuitive for me… not sure about the methane… but are enthanol and biodeisel really (at current techologies) a good solution (without massive conservation)? how much land is needed? what are the energy costs of growing and processesin?
This whole ethanol deal is bogus. It takes more energy to make it than it produces. And, besides, you are literally eating your seed corn. Famine will follow if this stupid policy is implemented.
nomolos — the auto workers have a genuine concern. See Rayne’s comment above. A big issue is whether the auto industry must shoulder the higher costs of meeting the mileage standard and still cover workers full health insurance coverage at a time when health costs are rising. That’s a large part of the US auto costs — so imposing a new cost on American cars, without dealing with the rising costs of health care can be a loser for auto workers.
lhp — yeah, been at this a long time, and while we’ve fiddled, Brazil made the transition to run their transportation system on sugar cane.
sofistic @ 17
MIne was a VW bug that got thirty mpg. I was p*ss’d the first time it cost me $3 to fill up (during the early ’70s energy crisi LHP references above).
sofistic @ 19
Your point about needing to examine the net energy conversion is valid. But I have a hunch people would stop driving before they’d starve.
GeorgeSimian @ 5
The current bill is still better than the 2001 Enron-sponsored Cheney energy bill.
Yes, there is a long way to go. Not just in how we produce energy sources, but also in how we expend that energy. Our work and living spaces must be closer together (2 hour commutes each way are a drain on the economy in so many ways). The “car on highway” transportation system must become a thing of the past (millions of acres of farmland end up under asphalt and thousands of people are injured or killed on highways each year). And finally, conserve conserve, conserve-in the home and on the road.
Big oil will not give up, and finding leaders who have the political will to stand up to the industry will be difficult.
Gee, I wonder if there is a politician out there who could lead this country on energy policy? Maybe a former Vice President…?
OT from today’s NYTimes (I assume someone probably brought this in last night during late nite). CIA to release files detailing mis-deeds of 50s, 60s, early 70s.
Bright shiny objects anyone?
The bill’s better than I’d feared, but not quite good enough — though with the closeness of some of the votes, it looks like we’re not that far from getting most if not all of what we want. (And come 2008, we’ll have more good legislators and presumably a good president.)
Scarecrow @ 22
am not sure that the evidence of the masses support this
mc — I agree; I’m disappointed the Senate couldn’t get the tax package through, but compared to where we’ve been with Cheney et al, we’ve made some progress. We still have a lot of ground to make up, after seven years of idiocy.
selise @ 18
Sherborne Farms in VT was using methane gas to run their barns a hundred years ago.
Ethanol is bogus as it costs more energy to manufacture a gallon than the energy a gallon of ethanol will produce. It seems that ethanol is a red herring for the public to get excited about while the big energy companies are using their excess dirty coal in the manufacturing process….. and getting tax breaks to do it. Business as usual
Scarecrow @ 20
Yet one more reason for National Health Care
Putting trucks and SUVs under CAFE standards is a big deal. Detroit’s been able to sell its ridiculously large vehicles because truck gas mileage has not been controlled.
Market forces may push many Americans into smaller, more fuel efficient cars even if Detroit balks. Too bad US manufacturers don’t want to build them.
———————————————–
My experiences with US auto dealers suggest that the industry has been in denial since the ‘73 gas crisis:
When I showed up at a family reunion in the late 70s in my new VW Rabbit, my UAW-official uncle actually defended my assertion that the US auto industry wasn’t giving young drivers what they wanted.
In 1981, the Pontiac sales person did not even take his feet off his show room desk when I told him I wanted to look at Pontiac’s new small car. I walked around the corner to the cinder block building that housed a new Honda dealership where I bought an Accord. (There were no chairs in the Honda dealership’s show room, only sales people hustling people out the door to test drives. The general manager did have a couple of chairs if you wanted to buy.)
In the mid-80s when I needed a bigger car, the Pontiac salesman at another dealership told me that it would be too much trouble to ship a Bonneville SE with a bench front seat from NC to northern Virginia. I ended up buying a more fuel efficient VW Passat station wagon.
Last Christmas, a friend who sells Fords in South Carolina told me that his dealership doesn’t offer clients hybrids: Hybrids would require additional mechanic training and since there is very little ’stop-and-go’ driving, who needs them to save gas? [I wondered about those stop signals every quarter mile on the coastal road. The stop signals with red lights that last 3 minutes? Couldn’t I save gas if I was driving 50 or more miles a day on that road?]
I now own a Honda Civic Si (31 mpg) and a ‘91 Mazda Miata (30 mpg). I’d like to drive comparable US vehicles that handle as well and get better gas mileage. Unfortunately, there’s not much to choose from. Besides, riding the bus and subway when I can is better for the environment.
sofistic @ 19
Up until recently we had a corn glut, and farmers were hurting because it cost them more to grow corn than what they getting paid to grow it. Now, for the first time in decades, they can actually make some money off the stuff, so I don’t begrudge them that. At the same time, it’s not sustainable, and that’s why Amy Klobuchar’s pushing a bill calling for the promotion of switchgrass and not corn for ethanol. Switchgrass ethanol is much more efficient and it has a neutral-to-negative carbon footprint.
On the RPS vote: unless some Senators flip (which is very possible), when Johnson comes back we’ll have the 60 votes necessary to invoke cloture.
Till then, let’s demand: Up or down vote on oil subsidies!
Phoenix Woman @ 25
We’ll at least we know where we stand. The mileage standard was a critical piece, and without that, it would have been a total embarrassment for the Dems. The loss on the tax package will not help Congress standing, now at abysmal levels. And I think these were the “easier” measures. We’re not tackling the larger “coal problem” I discussed yesterday, or the need for a carbon tax.
I thought it was interesting that on the day the Senate was struggling to put this bill together, the President was out touting nuclear power as the solution.
Could I just state what may be obvious (my special gift)? I get very little comfort from a 2020 deadline for dealing with all of this. As noted above, the capacity for improved mileage has long been with us (and Europe, where they’ve put it in play). We’re talking more than 12 years. And the language about hardships, changes and waivers if standards are “too difficult” is appalling. The U.S. auto industry has had ample time to come to grips with all of this, right? And now we’re supposed to cut it all kinds of slack because it might be too doggone hard to get out of bed with its marriage partner, the oil industry, and do the right thing. Divorce is tough. Sometimes it needs to happen for the good of the children.
It’s not middle-class Americans who starve from increased production of ethanol. It’s poorer Americans and Mexicans. Already the price of corn and tortilla flour is increasing as demand to fill subsidized refineries.
More evidence that the problem is not Democrats versus Republicans. It’s a lack of 21st century leadership. Few of today’s politicians want to confront ‘peak oil’. It’s the 600-pound gorilla that drives Middle East foreign policy, etc.
some possibly useful links:
here’s the energy bill h.r. 6, and the roll call vote.
there’s been more than a dozen recent votes on amendments during the last few days, virtually all of them rejected. it looks like the “compromise” was reid’s amendment (roll call vote), which includes more amendments than i want to count.
i don’t even know if this is correct, and i hate it when it’s so hard to figure out… especially as i no longer trust the MSM to get the story right…
Sorry if I am in a mood this morning. I have been following energy policy since the mid 1970’s and see no real change. Why did Japanese makers put a hybrid on the market before Americans? Why was the EV1 killed? Anyway, I will try to be more positive.
The Cunctator @ 32
Thanks for the link; I’ll add it to the post. But I think that vote is on the tax package??? I’m not sure that’s the RPS vote, unless they were combined.
sofistic @ 37
Yeah, well, I’m positive you’re right!
The thing to keep in mind, as Sara Robinson and others have pointed out, is that there is no single solution. But there are a bunch of things that when taken together, are the solution.
Fields of switchgrass, with slow-turning wind turbines equipped with photovoltaic film on every available surface: That’s part of the solution. (Heck, even something as simple as a PV strip on top of a car dashboard can be part of the solution: Especially in cab-forward car designs, that’s a lot of space, and can be used to help charge the battery and run all the auxilliary stuff.)
Scarecrow @ 22
scarecrow – people with cars won’t be the ones starving. our cars will be fed. the poor of the world will starve.
i have yet to see any (independant) energy balance that has this looking like a good idea. as far as i can tell sofistic is completely correct. and if so, this will be another episode of stupid and immoral.
barbara @ 34
I wish the car industry would realize that the oil industry is not its friend.
PW, I totally agree with you. The wind energy profile in the continental US is huge. The solar profile is also huge. And we are blessed with the fact that in one geographic area there is sun where there is no wind elsewhere, and vice versa through the seasons.
mc @ 23
I should have been more specific. The quote was in reference to Cheney’s claim that because his office has legislative duties, he is not part of the Executive branch, so he doesn’t have to catalog his papers. When he was investigated for the 2001 Energy policy that he put together behind closed doors, he claimed Executive priviledge when he refused to hand over papers, so he wants it both ways.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews
Not to worry, though. Alberto Gonzales is deciding whether he should do something. He’s been deciding for about a year so far.
I think we all know why the EV1 went south. Given Toyoto’s sales of hybrids, the writing on the wall for US auto companies should be painfully obvious well that’s not new!
selise @ 41
Selise, I’m not an advocate of corn-based ethanol; I was just joshing sofistic, who seemed down this a.m.
Again: Corn ethanol is at best a way station to what we really want, which is cellulosic ethanol. Amy Klobuchar has actually been doing serious work on this.
Scarecrow @ 46
sorry i took you seriously. i’ve been freaking out about this…
Yes, PW you’re absolutely correct, it’s going to take an integrated portfolio of products to meet the goals. Ethanol, despite the issues with corn-based product, is one. Methane (hey, cow, pig, and chicken poop as well as landfill gas to be harnessed and used…) is another. Good old recyling of waste fuels is another. In the industrial sector, many giant boilers can be converted to run on waste oil (hey Burger King!).
And, this morning, those smart scientists just a few blocks from me here in Madison found more ways to convert sugars from fruit into fuel…now this one’s a ways off, but a local start-up, Virent (mentioned in the link below) is already testing some of their fuel in real equipment.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=623292
And, I have to toss in my mantra, since our business focuses on energy efficiency (and increasingly, renewables) for businesses (mostly buildings, not transportation: energy efficiency is boring, but by heavens do it first, at home and at work.
Thanks for the empathy, Scarecrow. The sun is coming up here in coastal northern California, and I feel better already.
Phoenix Woman @ 47
i don’t think it’s a way station – i think it’s a wrong turn (as is palm oil biofuel).
i’m not dissing cellulosic ethanol (haven’t seen enough independent real world data yet to have anthing to say)… but corn ethanol and palm oil biofuels just seem downright evil.
Thank you some more for this, Scarecrow
and special, too, for the comments by informed pups, I could sound intelligent and on top of things at any gathering I may attend this weekend, even perhaps be persuasive myself.
BTW, here is a positive hit, from Zap Cars and scooters Just down the road from us in Santa Rosa, CA.
Phoenix Woman @ 40
yes, absolutely, silver buckshot instead of a silver bullet (as gore says). but we need to avoid the stupid unhelpful ones.
sofistic, I’m totally sympathetic. mr. martha and I just laugh that we’re finally “popular” again–we’ve been working in the energy efficiency world for almost 25 years and we’ve come full circle. Now, we’re in a somewhat unique niche in that we work for mostly industrial customers (not transportation, which could drive anyone to drink), so we have experienced a fair bit of success, one customer at a time. (those little victories)
infoshaman @ 30
Don’t just blame the US manufacturers. The Germans are just as bad. In order to maintain their premium, upscale market positions, their marketing people have long decreed that we don’t get their smallest, most officient vehicles. Ever seen a VW Polo, Audi A2, or A- or B-class Benz in the US? No? Didn’t think so. And the cars we do get from Germany don’t have the smallest, most fuel-efficient engines.
selise @ 48
you aren’t alone, selise; it bodes ill, it does.
I heard Boxer was in California for the birth of a grandchild. It is likely the vote counters in the Senate determined that her vote wouldn’t be decisive.
Selise, Google “switchgrass ethanol” and a lot of your questions will be answered.
What I’d like to see is switchgrass used for ethanol, then the byproducts used to make plastics — such as (ta-dah!) photovoltaic film (especially film that can be made to biodegrade easily when it’s at the end of its useful life). Talk about your holistics!
Phoenix Woman @ 47
The articles are vague on this, but as best I can tell, the requirement to accommodate alternative fuels and/or hybrids is not limited to or focused on corn-fed ethanol. However, I think there was a lot of money in the rejected tax package to spur these other developments.
nomolos @
Actually, ethanol is not quite that bad, the real problem is with our manufacturing methods. We use corn grains to do it which is just about the worst way to do it. Using the whole plant tips the balance quite a bit but there is not a lot of technology on-line for this. Sugar cane is much more efficient (It is what Brazil is doing.) The real reason for pushing ethanol is to buy off the farmers in the mid-west. Regardless of how it’s done, it is a terrible environmental story. We really have to cut consumption and that is something Americans just don’t want to hear. We need to give up driving into urban areas, we need to stop flying so much, etc etc. It is going to happen one way or another but the real question is, do we plan for it?
OT ~ ’nuff said. Lieberman Holds Fundraiser For Republican Collins Tonight
It looks as if Smart cars are finally approved in California
Scarecrow @ 6
Pls pardon the nit, Scarecrow, but the first sentence should have zero apostrophes in it… :)
“buy off farmers in the mid-west”
Well, I live in southern WI surrounded by lots of small farms and I must say that a good farm economy is good for our mostly agrarian state. The sad truth is that when milk or corn prices are high (which hurts non-farm families), farmers can fix up their barns and homes, buy new stock or grain, plant more crops, pay for their family’s health insurance, and put kids in college. Just an observation from the trenches…
What significant forums have been held, or are scheduled near future, to mash the hash of our energy policy? — you know, the kind with the overriding broad vista approach, the vision thing
oh and not sponsored by those with the deep vested interests.
S.O.S. from MA @ 64
Pls pardon the nit, Scarecrow, but the first sentence should have zero apostrophes in it… :)
apostrophes? What apostrophes? Thanks.
Why don’t we just spend the money that we wasted in Iraq on bringing our commuter rail systems up to date? Imagine what a hundred million dollars a day would do for our infrastructure.
I know, I know, but it’s still annoying. How much CO2 was produced destroying Falluja? And then rebuilding it, if Halliburton ever decides it’s worth its while.
Interesting stuff from RenewableEnergyAccess.com:
– Republican Senator John Thune (R-SD) successfully pushed his wind energy amendment to the energy bill, though I frankly have doubts about the viability of giant wind farms that are too far away from major population centers: Transmission losses start to add up with distance. (”Think globally, act locally” shows it applies to power generation as well as labor and other issues.)
– Google’s going (at least partially) solar.
– China is going to be kicking our asses in the renewable-energy field soon: Among other things, all new large buildings are now mandated by law to have solar power generating capacity of some sort.
– GM’s making big strides in improving hydrogen fuel cells for use in cars. (Now all we have to do is figure out how to best power those fuel cells without having the same or bigger carbon footprint as with gas-powered vehicles. ;-)
GeorgeSimian @ 68
I shudder to think what our children/grandchildren will say of us and this period. The era of bad choices.
GeorgeSimian @ 68
light rail would sure enhance my area, so I’m all for riding the rails.
Phoenix Woman @ 59
pw – i have been following it – although not deeply enough to be confident that the energy balance and ecological impact will be without concern. my issue was with corn ethanol and palm oil biofuel…. which, as far as i can tell, are horrible.
i don’t know of any reason to think switchgrass cellulosic ethanol won’t eventually be useful in a big way…. i wasn’t disagreeing with you on it.
but if you want me to read more, please give me a link or two to independent study(s) you recommend on the energy balance and/or ecological impact, and i’d be happy to read.
Lou Costello @ 62
Actually, that fund raiser was last night. Anyone know if Howie’s push to raise more for Tom Allen/Blue America than HoJo could for Collins was successful?
The sad thing about commuter rail, at least where I live, in the NYC area, is that it’s already at top capacity. So, raising gas prices, or congestion charging, and all that other great stuff that’s designed to get people off the roads, isn’t giving them a practical alternative. I don’t know why Republicans think that financing the railroads in any form is a communist boondoggle when they have no problem supporting the car industry and the airline industry.
Here’s Paradise
by John Prine.
martha @ 65
martha – i gotta agree with realworld here about corn ethanol. there are other ways to help farmers which i would happily support… like building windmills in their cornfields.
I like this discussion. But ethanol-growing food as a hydrocarbon fuel, is not efficient and depletes resources.
The simplest things should be done first. Recycling energy intensive materials such as aluminum is necessary. Eliminate wasteful usage of hydro-carbon products, that is no plastics, where renewable products can be used. Conservation, turning out the lights, when not needed, is the easiest way to immediately to lower the energy budget.
Of course a massive research effort for innovative solar, hydrogen and bio tech solutions is absolutely necessary. The Oil, Coal and Nuclear Cartels will fight this as they always have.
Ethanol is such a red herring. It’s just there to distract us from conservation and make us think that we can go on consuming and polluting in a painless, earth sustaining way. If only it were true.
realworld @ 61
i fear you are correct… and our political system is not now capable of dealing with it in an honest way.
sofistic @ 19
IMHO Ethanol is scam to enrich Agra-business. There was an article in Scientific American, about six months ago, evaluating ethanol (in the US) as a fuel. The bottom line is: 1)it doesn’t save on oil use 2)it’s more polluting than oil
(one reason is coal is being used to produce it)
selise @ 79
Or even a dishonest way.
Phoenix Woman @ 47
looks like interesting legislation… do you have a link to the bill?
Steve @ 80
Exactly. It’s another excuse for a farm subsidy. Also helps Monsanto, which is one of the worst companies in existence and has somehow become one of the most politically influencial companies too.
GeorgeSimian @ 78
Totally agree. Who will be growing all this wonderful ethanol producing corn? Factory farms owned by ChevronTexacoMobilExxon. And they would just continue to eat up farmland that could be put to better use-like growing real food.
Policies to support organic farming, encourage producers to stay close to their markets, make the move to renewables like solar, and drive LESS, would have a more positive effect on the U.S. economy and long-term energy health.
raven @ 75
I was in college at Western Kentucky when that song came out. I remember standing in one of the local watering holes talking/singing about it with one of my friends and a femal acquaintance took great umbrage at it. Seems her daddy worked for Mr Peabody’s coal company.
And it seems Mr Peabody’s coal company is still causing mischief. Even though the coal to liquid amendments pushed by Jim Bunning were defeated, the corrupt Gov of KY is still pushing for a special session of the legislators to address the issue and give Peabody more tax breaks.
I agree that corn-based ethanol is NOT the one answer, and I agree with building windmills–but not all farmers’ field are appropriate sites. Basically, there has to be enough wind to justify the cost (which is still substantial). In Wisconsin, some areas have “good wind levels” that can justify construction, and many do not. And, is this turbine only going to support the energy needs of one farm, or do we want it to support a broader population? If more than the one farm, the transmission grid must be able to support this, which it may or may not currently do (a hot problem right now in parts of WI).
I don’t mean to be difficult, it’s just that it’s not as easy as we all want it to be. Which goes back to my original comment about needing an integrated solution. (I think I’d better get back to work before I really tick somebody off.)
But, I’m going to end again with my standard lecture to clients: energy efficiency (or conservation, pick the term you prefer) is the most important step that we should be taking every single day. But we all find excuses not to do it. Big mistake.
We must (and can, quite painlessly) reduce our energy use. We’re just lazy. And have no leadership. Duh.
Steve @ 80
Link to the Scientific American article (requires subscription)
This from Clusterfuck Nation:
“We’re involved in Iraq because we don’t want to begin thinking about modifying our behavior at home. We are desperate to preserve our access to Middle East oil because that is the only way we can keep running our society the way we’re used to running it. Mostly, we don’t want to face the tragic misinvestments we’ve made in the infrastructure of happy motoring, and we don’t want to face the inconvenient truth that there really isn’t any combination of alt.fuels that will permit us to keep running all the cars the way we like to run them. Either we keep getting the oil or say goodbye to the American Dream Version 2.K.”
http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/
Oh, yeah, new thread, too.
Good Morning Scarecrow.
probably gonna be epu’d pdq, but just had to thank you.
I tried to watch the energy bill’s “progress” yesterday on C-Span, and just ended up more & more and more confused.
The bigger the bill, the bigger the stakes for powerful lobbyists and assorted scoundrels, the more likely it contains hidden loopholes and perks we can only guess at.
A monumental task, it is, to boil any discussion of that humungous bill into readable prose. Still, it is critically important to do so, and then haul out the magnifying glasses and red pencils.
Thank you much!
New Christy upstairs
Good morning from L.A. EPUville here, but just wanted to share an important website regarding all environmental issues:
Union of Concerned Scientists- Citizens & Scientists for Environmental Solutions
Christy has a new thread on “Bush Blight”
Marie Roget @ 91
Yes, that’s a good one.
It seems that every thing that I read about energy is colored by secondary agendas. A small percentage of world energy can come from wind, solar etc. but the bottom line is that we are going to have to figure out how to use the stored energy, hydrocarbons and nuclear, without killing ourselves. Everything that I hear about nuclear is bad but France produces 78% of it’s electricity that way and without producing CO2 (I have no idea what they do with the waste). The bottom line is that there is no free lunch.
martha @ 86
i just meant building windmills as an example of a good way to help farmers – instead of bad ways (corn ethanol). i’d like to think there are many other things that can be done that are helpful to farmers – and the rest of us.
completely agree about conservation.
p.s. i don’t think you’re being difficult! please don’t stop expressing your views.
Adie @ 89
agreed. i can’t even find the text of the bill that was voted on yesterday… just a long list of amendments to an amendment that (i think) replaced the original bill.
Marie Roget @ 91
second that one. i have belonged for many years. as far as i can tell, a very, very good organization.
Thanks selise! Sometimes being the painfully pragmatic one is so…boring…! But this is a subject I actually know something about, so it’s hard to remain a lurker…
OT, but I’m obsessing. Now that Mr. Cheney has shown us the light, the us-gov pages are gonna have to change their info. Right there, in a helpful, kid-friendly listing of the executive branch, comes the vice president. Guess, once again, we’re all mistaken and Mr. Cheney exists to set us straight.
sofistic @ 11
And
how much energy does it take to walk or bike one mile?
We could solve the energy and fat problems at the same time.
The energy bill now before the Senate, far from being any kind of solution to our economic and environmental crises, represents exactly the kind of thinking and legislating that has brought us to the point of crisis in the first place. Mandating 35 mile per gallon vehicles by 2020 is a bit like bailing out the Titanic with Dixie cups, or treating cancer with a Band-Aid. What it will accomplish is less than nothing; by 2020, the number of new drivers and new cars on the road will ensure that we produce more carbon, not less, than we do now, despite the new fuel standards.
These standards do not even attempt to slow down the pace at which we pollute the air and consume natural resources, let alone reverse the damage. Instead, they ensure that we will continue to consume and pollute at ever increasing levels, and only limit the rate of increase minimally. This bill is evidence that the Democrats have neither the intent nor the ability to address the environmental and economic problems they helped create, and are in fact only slightly less beholden to corporate interests than are Republicans.
We need zero emission vehicles. We need a solar grid. We need public transit. Cars that get 35 miles to the gallon are worse than an empty gesture; they are a false comfort in a time of emergency.
I call upon our representatives to reject this meaningless bill and go back to the drawing board, this time listening not to centrists, appeasers, and lobbyists, but instead to technological innovators and real environmental advocates.
As a member of the House of Representatives, I vow to craft legislation that offers real, sustainable solutions to the severe crises we face. I encourage our current Congressional legislators and all Americans to learn about my proposed “New Deal for sustainability,” which provides a model for sustainable energy production and transportation in the 21st century. And I encourage voters in the 37th district to consider which candidate will provide real leadership on issues related to the environment, energy prices, and transportation when they vote this Tuesday”
Dear Auto Industry:
Can you spell “Diesel”?
And,
Is it just a childish reaction to being told what to do, when all auto makers have to abide by the same rules, that you threaten to “hold your breath until your faces turn blue”, or is there a real reason?
There’s no mention even in Scarecrow’s column about conservation measures, apart from Congress’ long distance goals of slightly increasing fuel economy in vehicles. (It is possible today to have fuel efficiencies of 50 mpg. What wait 15 years to get just over halfway to that level?) And yet this is the key thing Congress should be concentrating on. Not alternative sources of sun-energy or slight adjustments in fuel efficiency. And not just fuel consumption in vehicles.
The biofuels alternative, btw, is a horrifying prospect. The idea with this, as with all alternatives, is to postpone the time when consumers are more thrifty with their consumption of fuels. The thought of croplands, pastures, or rainforests being turned over to the mass production of biofuel crops makes my skin crawl. Food prices will rise. The land will be destroyed. Global warming will accelerate. Energy usage will increase to keep up with global warming. It’s a catastrophe waiting to happen because it solves nothing important enough to warrant it above conservation.