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The audacity of. . . what now?
For those of you who missed it, the Obama campaign launched an attack on Hillary Clinton laden with racist, anti-Indian code to make Lou Dobbs proud. In fact, the Obama opposition research memo calls Senator Clinton “(D-Punjab)” and quotes Lou Dobbs prominently in support of its arguments. Go read the whole thing.
The non partisan US India Political Action Committee is asking Obama to respond directly to his campaign’s use of racist stereotypes, but so far, here’s the Obama campaign’s version of taking responsibility, with no word yet from Obama himself (emphasis added):
“Barack Obama has been a longtime friend of the Indian-American community and our campaign is fortunate to have strong support from Indian Americans across the country. The intent of the document was to discuss the issue of outsourcing, but we regret the tone that parts of the document took,” he said in the statement.
Hey, look what that crazy document did, all by itself, taking that offensive tone and all.
For the record, I’d be quite happy for the Democratic presidential hopefuls to make the differences among them more clear for the voters. Right now these differences are blurred as they appear afraid to open up a cycle of mutually assured destruction, but the voters need to see who’s on audition and what they each have to offer.
Senator Clinton’s views on trade, and her associations with known union busters like Mark Penn, are all fair game. But if Obama’s “new kind of politics” means he’s willing to throw people of color under the bus to make the point, well, I’d have to say, I suppose that’s information we should all have as well.
The longer Obama is personally silent about all this, the more he owns that memo written by a staffer.
Tick tock, tick tock.
UPDATE: Well, that didn’t take long. This went up around 7:30 pm Eastern Time:
Obama calls Clinton memo ‘dumb mistake’
NEWTON, Iowa – Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record) on Monday said his campaign made a “dumb mistake” when it circulated a memo criticizing rival
Hillary Rodham Clinton’s financial ties to India.In an interview with The Associated Press, Obama disavowed the memo which carried the headline — “Hillary Clinton (D-Punjab)” — and referred to Bill and Hillary Clintons’ investments in India; her fundraising among Indian-Americans; and the former president’s $300,000 in speech fees from Cisco, a company that has moved U.S. jobs to India.
“It was a dumb mistake on our campaign’s part and I made it clear to my staff in no uncertain terms that it was a mistake,” Obama told the AP in a brief interview in which he referred to the memo as “unnecessarily caustic.”
Last Thursday, Obama’s campaign sent the memo to reporters, demanding that it not be attributed to their campaign. The Clinton campaign obtained the document and sent it to journalists. Since then, it has created a furor in the Indian-American community and raised questions about Obama’s claims that he is above attack politics.
“It is not reflective of the long-standing relationship I have had with the Indian-American community,” Obama said in the interview.
“The issue of outsourcing is a genuine and important issue but to refer to one particular country was, I think, an error and I let all of us know that we’ve got to be more careful about how we communicate,” he said.
In a statement on his Web site, Obama said he was not aware of the contents of the memo before it was distributed. The Illinois senator said he was responsible for the mistake and the campaign had taken appropriate action “to prevent errors like this from happening in the future.”
The campaign said the new policy is to ensure that senior staff will review materials before they are distributed publicly.
UPDATE II: I hate to pile on, but this Obama statement is really weak. The memo was not just “unnecessarily caustic.” It was xenophobic and bigoted, but whatever, I guess. Somehow Obama gets a pass on this that I doubt any other Democratic candidate would get.
Also, he asserts in this version of the story that he “quickly apologized.” Really? Where? Apologized for what, for the actions of the junior staffers he’s now holding out as the culprits? For lax management? That seems to be what he’s claiming is his wrongdoing: his senior staff was insufficiently attentive to the opposition research shop.
Saying you’ve “apologized” does not make it so, and if that original statement quoted in the main post is the earlier apology to which he refers, well, I don’t think that word means what he thinks it means. Of course, in reality, Obama knows the difference between actually apologizing and pushing race baiting oppo into the media bloodstream without thinking he’ll pay a price for it. Given that so much of the interest in the primaries is candidate biography and personality based, rather than about ideas and ideology, he may well be right.
This torment of the English language is part of the infection in our national politics, not the solution, in my view.
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Circular firing squad time.
I dislike the two front runners.
allan_in_upstate @ 1
Yup.
Gore.
Gore / Bloomberg ‘08 !
Pach:
Respectfully, in first paragraph: “priminently”.
Spiritcatcher @ 5
And respectfully, Bloomberg?
Sorry, no.
Party unity is important, and there is such a thing as a “circular firing squad dynamic.”
At the same time, the primary season is the time we get to learn about the candidates and what they stand for, and what makes each different. It’s also when we have a conversation with the party about what it should stand for.
It’s just not good enough to act as if any criticism of candidates is verboten. What we can do – and this is the intent of this post – is to lay out what kinds of criticism are okay and what kinds are not.
Using right wing talking points or racist code language is just not okay.
Pretty foul move by Obama’s campaign, after Obama has been telling everyone he wants to “raise the discourse.” It’s amazing how easily Obama can adopt rightwing framing of things, from falsely claiming Democrats tried to “defund the troops” to this pointless xenophobia. The issue of offshoring of jobs is about exploiting cheap labor for profit at the expense of American workers, not about the race or culture of foreign countries.
Shame on the Obama campaign, they’ve belittled themselves with this seemingly desperate appeal to the basest nature of voters.
before obama even anounced his candicy I said I thought he was drinking the corporate koolaid.
I am not comfortable one bit with him as our candidate
xenophobia
If you’re going to stand up and make what seeem to be sincere, heart-felt speeches about finding a new kind of politics you can’t indulge yourself in this kind of crap. Obama’s a guy that makes people want to believe in him, but so far his actions haven’t lived up to his words.
Obama and Hillary are both ruthless. I am not fooled by the veneer.
Am I being moderated all the time now, or is it just my choice of a certain Greek-derived word?
If you don’t like the DLC, then it follows you cannot be warm to Hillary or Obama.
C’mon, man. This is so simple. Just say that you have so many “advisors” that you can’t approve every single sentence that comes out of the campaign, and that this person has been fired. Unless of course you did approve this.
More cowbell. Fewer triangles.
Not to excuse Obama, but Hillary is the one who created the D-Punjab joke:
Obama, after such an auspicious start, and the speech at the last convention, seemed like “Teh Guy”.
But his constan meandering toward middle-of-the-road muddled thinking, and now this, c’mon, Dude! Either lead, or get out of the way.
Hillary and Obama. Two breaths of very stale air.
Okay, I believe the “lack of experience” factor is blinking like a neon sign here.
The outsourcing hypocrisy? Fair game, smart move. The “Punjab” comment and Indian-baiting, not so smooth.
It’s amazing we are even having this discussion when we have so many other far better Democrats than these two.
1,554 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Pachacutec and the Firepup Patriots:
Al Gore is lookin’ better’n better every day…ani’t he?
KEEP THE FAITH, YA DON’T HAFTA LOOK VERY FAR TA FIND THE BAD GUYS!!
BTW:
Outsourcing is a class and labor issue in the context of globalization. It is most certainly NOT about race and ethnicity.
Apologies for the bold, but this distinction is important.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 22
He sure is. ;0)
The true mistake of the Obama people in this document was to focus on the “India” aspect of this range of corporate-linked topics, instead of the outsourcing, “free” trade market fundamentalism, anti-workerism, union-busting aspects of Hillary and other of the center-right DLC approaches.
Is this what they call “gutter politics”?
This is the 5th blog report that I’ve seen that leaves out the fact that Hillary said she was the Senator from Punjab and calls the comment racist on Obama’s part.
Some accuracy would be really nice.
El Cid @ 25
and this is why i am so pissed at obama…
his staff is using the very same distraction technique that the “cheap labor” republicans use:
look! over there! a brown person!
god forbid that the corporate sponsored trade agreements be critically analyzed.
Justin @ 27
See my comment in 17.
There are so many great things Hillary can do — senator, majority leader, ambassador, or being the public face of some foundation or cause — why be a mediocre presidential candidate?
Looks like things are gettin’ nasty, now. Gloves are off. Well, perhaps if these two can ramp things up to an uncomfortably nasty level in the next few months, their popularity will start to tank and we won’t have to listen to eternal speculation by the likes of Tweety and others about their electibility, presidentiality, blah, blah, blah.
(Yeah, I know, but a girl can dream).
If not Gore, Edwards
Obama and Hillary are both ruthless..
And, if we’re lucky they will destroy each other.
We need better candidates.
Outsourcing of American jobs is the issue. Factories have moved to China taking American jobs and producing lead-painted toys and toxic food. Even Republicans get H-1B visas for republican campaign jobs. Hillary Clinton supports sending our jobs to other countries. Why does Hillary Clinton hate America.
Obama has become conventional unfortunately.
Wake up Democrats. Get rid of the DLC.
Justin @ 27
Justin quickly parries with the Don Imus “rappers use the n-word” argument!
-GSD
Biodun @ 29
Looks like it’s not a secret but somehow the information keeps getting left out of the posts. Other than in the comments I mean.
GSD @ 36
I guess inaccurate reporting isn’t just for the right-wingers!
Biodun @ 23
I find it interesting that this truth, which has become more and more evident to the general populus, is being manipulated by the Obama camp in this xenophobic fashion. It is painfully obvious that his peeps do not know what they are doing.
If they’d addressed Clinton’s hypocrisy in the terms you described above, they’d be ahead of the game right now.
Justin @ 27
That fact doesn’t change the racebaiting nature of the Obama attack. The intent of the memo is to use fear and derision to get supporters to turn on Hillary.
Creating some bogus attack on a minor point without addressing the actual issue is a favorite tactic of the rightwing propaganda machine, is it the best way to try and defend Obama? Quick, everyone! What about the kerning! Look at the kerning!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 15
Well, that explains why they have always left me cold.
Hillary did say that, but it has nothing whatever to do with the framing of it by Obama’s campaign in xenophobic anti-Indian language.
Hillary made an offhand joke and Obama’s people tried to turn it into an epithet. There’s a difference.
Justin @ 38
Did the Obama literature state that they were quoting Hillary Clinton’s quip?
-GSD
Mandrake @ 39
Would it have been xenophobic and/or racist if the country were England rather than India?
Would it have even made a ripple?
realworld @ 31
Yes, yes, yes !!!!!!!!!
Pachacutec @ 42
In your opinion, would the perception of xenophobia be present if the country was England or France rather than India?
realworld @ 32
or maybe gore/edwards?
And Obama is most certainly NOT stupid. But why is he allowing this stuff to seep out of his campaign? First his general counsel. Then this.
GSD @ 43
I guess stenography isn’t just for the mainstream media!
Digging into stories, which this blog is wonderful at, is a good thing. Taking stories at face value tends not to be such a good thing.
I think Gore is running.
realworld @ 32
I read a NYT article this morning by Adam NaGonad where he said Edwards was a DLC candidate in 2003-4 and was considered too centrist for many Dems then. What the hell did I miss in 2003-4?!? I always thought Edwards was the populist candidate!
Suppose this plays into the flip-flopper theme, now that he’s the “leftist” candidate that doesn’t support George and Dick’s Not-so-Excellent Adventure in Iraq, even though he voted to authorize it. Sigh…guess I should just prepare for “the Dems are flipflopping opportunists that don’t stand for anything.” Thanks NYT…
puppethead @ 40
If the country was England would it have been perceived as race-baiting or xenophobia?
realworld @ 32
Chris Dodd.
Pachacutec @ 42
A lot like Limbaugh’s calling Bill Clinton “the first black president.” Bill said it, but Rush turned it into an attack.
Biodun @ 46
Yes. It is confusing, though the stuff by the general counsel had more plausible deniability built in to it. That may or may not have been a lawyer freelancing and showing terrible judgment, or it could have been a cut out sending code to certain funding sources/opportunities.
But this memo is from the Obama campaign, full stuff.
Did Obama hire Rove?
selise @28: You said it, selise! We are thirsting, starving, dying to hear somebody get up and take this thing head on with some plain talk. I think Edwards has come the closest.
But apparently plain talk about those corporate sponsored trade agreements is off-limits to these two. So, naturally, they’ll have to play a bait-and-switch game.
Hey guys, we’re not that dumb.
Pach at 42:
I agree with the framing. But Hillary supplied the painting. Without the painting (content) there can be no framing, only an empty frame. My 17 is not excusing Obama.
puppethead @ 40
If it was England instead of India would it be race-baiting?
Obama should hire Mudflap Saunders! Does that tool still have a job?
Justin,
Your straw man is ablaze. It wasn’t England, it was India.
-GSD
Gore is holding back until after his Nobel Peace Prize nomination!
he is holding back…watching the dog fight!
We’ve got Dodd, Kucinich, Biden, Edwards, Richardson, Clark and others. What do the front runners have? Lots of money and a pair of big mouths.
what you mean, “IF”?
to have reached the place in the political hierarchy achieved by Obama, Her Royal Clintoris, Gore, Biden or any of ‘em–to say absolutely notheing at all about the PUKES–they’d have had long since to have demonstrated not only the willingness but the ability to throw their allies–hell, their own grandmother–under a bus to get ahead…
the USer system does not reward ANY deviation from this standard: Ya gotta not only be willing, ya gotta WANNA fuck your buddies in the name of the ‘corpoRatocracy’ that keeps everything running so smoothly…
.
Kathleeen @ 62
I think you are right. ;0)
GSD @ 57
You fail to see the point?
This is no more race-baiting than pointing out that Bush administration policies benefit his rich donors (his base as he calls them) is class-warfare.
I reckon this is Obama’s “Sista Souljah” moment.
I didn’t like it when Clinton did it, and I don’t like it any better now.
People better get to the realization quick that green is the driving color in our society, and those who control the green are using other colors on the palette – black, white, brown, yellow – to stay in control.
If a DLC’er wins in 2008, the day they take office marks the end of Republic and the beginning of Empire.
Republicans set the table(think NAFTA) and then a country club Democrat says the blessing.
Justin @ 27
ditto
Oklahoma kiddo @ 62
And the DLC consultant package.
Around Labor Day, we should get a ‘Draft Gore’ campaign going. Hillary is wedded to the corporations and has an Iraq stance that is questionable, while Obama is showing me nothing that says he’s ready for the job.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 50
no, he’s not.
yellowdogD @ 70
Yes. ;0)
The Obama camp was playing to a real base element with that Punjab jab. There is no way around it. The blather about Hillary’s quip is incidental.
Really.
I am not any where near a Hillary supporter and was leaning towards Obama. So I am not a knee-kerk Hillaryist. But Obama, really, this is lame.
-GSD
wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 62
You should write speeches for candidates.
bonkers @ 51
Considering the wingnut candidates, it would be difficult for the MSM to portray the dems in that light without casting that net over their own as well.
lina @ 71
?
OT – regarding republican davis’ demand that Valerie Plame ‘be subpoenaed’ (yes, how about try asking politely first) back before the House Oversight Committee, could this relate to more than countering the Libby behind bars news and trying to take Waxman’s eye off the ball from other pressing matters – i.e. having a specific goal of nailing down certain points that could be later used to undermine the Wilson’s civil suit?
Biodun @ 57
Well, looking at the quote you provided, she seems to be attributing the original comment to Singh (Chatwal?). I think Hill is too smart to make such a gaffe completely unaided. Unless Singh did not call her the “Senator of Punjab.” Knowing her, that’s hard to believe. Not a fan, mind you, but I have a hard time believing she’d stick her foot in her mouth that hard.
Also, I might as well add this:
The Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama campaigns may well create problems for the Dems (both politicians and the electorate) in the months to come. They’re both identity politics candidates, a hot-button issue, and they may well short-circuit each other. Just as the black power movement and the feminists short-circuited each other in the 1970s.
Dems in general may well be treading a very thin line in the near future. As the French say: Attention! in the double sense of “Pay attention!” and “Danger!”
I suspect that, should Gore receive the Nobel, in a perverse way that is All-Murkin in it’s savage anti-intellectualism, it will NOT redound to his credit with the Joe and Mary Sixpack crowd, OR the soccer-moms, or the rest of ‘middle Murka’; indeed, it will likely work AGAINST him to have such international recognition, a la Jimmy Carter…
Again, it is their “aides” that are writing these things. When are the candidates going to review what gets put out there? What is up with the staff people on these campaigns, are they really for the candidate they are representing?
Muzzy @ 76
It’s an attempt at a shiny object for the republics. The entire committee has to vote to subpoena. There is little to no chance of this happening.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 76
i know people who know both Gores socially. He’s not running.
Spiritcatcher @ 5
Gore/Tester or Gore/Webb, please…
This is the second major misstep inside of a week. Obama really should know better than this. And I don’t care that it’s supposedly his surrogates who are doing the mudslinging. He needs to step up to the plate, right now, and reset the tone for his campaign. If he wants to look different from all the other politicians, he needs to ACT different.
Looks like Obama reads our minds. He has fully apologized himself.
Obama: Campaign’s ‘Punjab’ remark was ’stupid’
http://desmoinesregister.com/a…..01/archive
Completely OT- Larry Johnson will be speaking tonight in Venice CA, tomorrow night over the hill in Encino CA. Trying to finish up @ AFI over here in Hllywd early enough to make it to his Venice appearance. Angelenos, time & place info is here:
Larry Johnson L.A. Appearance Info
This is just the kind of thing Gore needs to jump in — the more they keep after each other, the bigger the opening becomes.
Run, Al, run!!!!!!!
lina @ 83
d’accorde: he’s said so many times, so firmly, and with so much passion that he’s not gonna run, it would be a HUGE (PR) blunder to reverse that stance now…
Ed*ard Teller @ 84
Newsflash: Both Gore and Newt are just using the press to get free publicity in order to sell books. Neither one has any intention of running.
Erica @ 87
Thank you. That was easy. Obama ‘08!
The Hillary/Obama shootout is a perfect example of the hideousness of campaigns that Gore says he hates. If Gore does throw his hat in the presidential ring, before or after he wins the Nobel Peace Prize, he will turn the world of campaign strategy on its head and remake it in the positive way that Rove and Atwater revolutionized it in the negative way. That is my dream.
bonkers @ 50
I don’t know what article you read, but the NYT is full of bull. Edwards was most certainly NOT considered too centrist by Dems in 2003-2004. He was plenty centrist, like most of the rest of them. He did play on the populist theme, but I don’t think anybody was paying much attention at the time.
He is certainly more populist than these two. He is considered more to the left now b/c he came out later and said his vote was wrong, before it became popular to criticize the war. And he’s been a pretty vocal critic since then.
So he does have the baggage of the vote, but he let go of it early while Hillary was still playing the hawk.
PS — In 2003-04, despite his moderate record as governor of VT, Howard Dean was annointed a flaming liberal by the press and was hence way too far to the left for the comfort of the DLC, not to mention the fact he had no real connections. I’m like you, I don’t know where the hell this Nagourney person was back then.
selise @ 47
or maybe gore/edwards?
Yeppers… ;
yellowdogD @ 70
GET a Draft Gore campaign going? It’s been going for a long time now — all over the country. Go to http://www.algore.org and find a group near you. Get involved. The more people he sees want him to run, the better chance we have. The message has been going out loud and clear at his book signings, and he has not shut the door yet.
Gnome de Plume @ 93
I believe nobody will challenge gore if he runs, I believe he will give us a unified front and the race will be for who will be his running mate
Joe-Bama!
just thought I’d do this once in a post that was actually about the junior senator from illinois.
I hope there some crazy millionaire willing to mount a primary challenge
against our Leiberman while is busy running for the WH in 08…
Biodun @ 23
Yes, and it appears that some of the “good” productivity numbers the GOP has been preening about are because they manage to lump the savings that corps get from outsourcing in with productivity!
So along with all their other lies, you can’t trust any of their economic numbers either (inflation, employment, productivity…). (Bondad blog is pretty good at spelling this stuff out.)
Interesting. Hill didn’t get nailed for it, Obama did.
From the desmoinesregister.com article:
I hadn’t heard that Hill actually had investments in India. This raises a legitimate campaign issue about her views on outsourcing and offshoring.
S.O.S. from MA @ 95
gore/edwards not my first choice
gore/feingold
gore/waxman
gore leahey
then possibly gore/edwards
For the Plameologists out there, Hitchens has all of the Free Scooter! talking points conveniently put together for you: http://www.slate.com/id/2168642/
wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 91
In 2004, he asked the draft movement to stop what they were doing — he has made no such request yet this time around. We’re fairly confident he will jump in. Until he asks us to stop, we will hold out hope that he will answer the call. He firmly told Larry King that he has no interest in being Secretary of State or in any other cabinet post. He has made no such statement regarding the presidency.
Erica @ 87
From the link above:
My bold. Please read Freud’s Jokes and Their Relation to the Unconscious.
Al Gore for the next president of the United States of America!
Erica @ 84
Or our blogs. He would be stupid if he didn’t have people reading some of them, keeping a finger in the wind.
perris @ 101
Would like to see Gore run, but why should he? It would be like walking barefoot into a pig pen. What a nasty campaign this is going to be !
Oklahoma kiddo @ 50
ditto. i have a few bets going on this… 6-packs, burritos, etc
perris @ 98
I absolutely agree with you.
Gore/Obama
Gore/Clark
Gore/Feingold
Gore/Edwards…
in no particular order.
Gore/Anybody-but-LIEberman would be fine by me.
Folks — we do not advocate torture for anyone on this blog — not on the front page, and certainly not in the comments. Not as a question or a creative storytelling analogy either. Period. We do ourselves no favors if we start acting like the people whose actions we despise — please do not sink to their level.
And, while I’m thinking of it, I find referring to Sen. Clinton as “Clintoris” really obnoxious and unnecessarily crude. And, as a woman, I needed to say that out loud.
bonkers @ 92
Spew!!
Nothing to see here, move along . . .
David Shuster is sub for that IDIOT Tucker…he is going to CORRECT all the miusinformation that the “free Scooter” lobby has been spreading…his words!
Thank you Christy @ 110
Good call Barack! Telepathy?
Obama apologizes
http://desmoinesregister.com/a…..01/archive
It would be difficult for a candidate to wait much longer than right now and still have a chance at winning. There would be a funds deficit and a staff deficit and a message deficit. If Gore hasn’t declared by the end of July or so- I’d say it’s all over for him.
SharonRB @ 89
;0)
spurious @ 106
No chance he just realized it was stupid without the help of anyone else huh?
Gnome de Plume @ 111
Second
RawStory has proof that Decider Commander Guy is a dictator, who ignores the Congress and the Courts and the People. So he really is King George. Note, Sen. Reid, “Recess Appointments Clause”. Hillary and Barack, any comments?
————————————————
Government watchdog says Bush ignored law after 30% of signing statements
Michael Roston Monday June 18, 2007
The Government Accountability Office issued a report showing that US government agencies ignored Congressional legislation on 30% of the occasions when President George W. Bush issued a ‘presidential signing statement’ after signing bills into law.
there were four broad categories under which the President objected to a law passed by Congress: the theory of the unitary executive; the Commander in Chief power, national security, foreign relations, or law enforcement; bicameralism and presentment clauses of the Constitution; and miscellaneous categories related to the Recess Appointments Clause and the Fifth Amendment.”
Mandrake @ 94
Thanks. It was actually a (gasp) printed, old fashioned paper copy of the NYT from today, so don’t have a link.
Good. My memory isn’t failing, at least not yet. I remember liking Edwards alot back then and thinking he might be too “liberal” for alotta America, so NaGonad’s article seemed so strange to me.
spurious @ 105
As an avid blog reader, I can tell you that both Edwards and Biden(!) keep an ear on the blogs (Edwards, more than that). Never seen anything to indicate that Obama or Clinton think they’re about 2 way communication.
rwcole @ 114
if someone self destructs they could direct their war chest to gore?
Biodun @ 102
What would Freud say about Hillary’s joke?
Just imagine. Obama or Hillary, or Rudy, or Freddy, or Mitt or whatever.
“Obama continued, “I thought it was stupid and caustic and not only didn’t reflect my view of the complicated issue of outsourcing … it also didn’t reflect the fact that I have longstanding support and friendships within the Indian-American community.”
Then why don’t you take control of your campaign!!! You are the boss, Obama, not your campaign managers. Never let them put out something you are going to have to apologize about. D’oh….
Franco @ 112
I wonder why Dan Abrams is keeping Tucker around. There’s absolutely no point to his show, and he’s annoying to no end. But I have to watch him sometimes for billables.
rwcole @ 115
That would be for a conventional campaign, which he has no intention of joining or being. The issue as I see it would be to get on the primary ballots where the delegates get delegated to the convention and do not have the ability to vote any way but how the primary dictates.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 108And, while I’m thinking of it, I find referring to Sen. Clinton as “Clintoris” really obnoxious and unnecessarily crude. And, as a woman, I needed to say that out loud.
Agreed, COMPLETELY. Thanks, Christy.
I didn’t enjoy the anatomy-related nicknames for the male Clinton either and I tend to take that sort of one for a woman personally. Admittedly, Bill had earned a bit more concern about his relationship with his male bits. :p
perris @ 102
gore/edwards not my first choice
gore/feingold
gore/waxman
gore leahey
then possibly gore/edwards
I can’t see Feingold running (though Al did run with a Jewish-surnamed guy on his ticket, and won) :) And IIRC Feingold said he wouldn’t run, in a fairly emphatic way.
Waxman and Leahy are certainly up to the VP-ship, and deserve Cabinet-level jobs in the next (D) administration, but imho they’re not “presidential timber.” As do Clinton and Obama deserve Cabinet posts. Then after 8 years of Gore/Edwards, the ticket might be Edwards/Obama… Gee this speculation is fun! :)
OhWait, I forgot LIEberman. Best that way, eh?
Gore (Al)/Clinton (Bill) ‘08
this is what I’m talking about;
democrats need to jump all over that with things like;
this is how out of touch the administration is with reality
punish them for crap like that
SharonRB @ 106
Amen. (Though Gore/Clark has a nice ring to it…)
Gah, sorry about the mis-formatting in my comment. I’m not feeling well today and it shows.
For starters, that she is so confident of herself that she can pull anything off once she sets her mind to it.
I do not regard the issue of outsourcing as “complicated”. Apparently Obama does. I don’t.
1,554 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen oklahoma kiddo and the Firepup Patriots:
“I think that Al Gore is running.”
And I think you are right, kiddo…in the recent past, the real start of the primary season and the nomination process was Labor Day before the primaries. Longer’n that was not only expensive but exposed the candidate(s) and by extension the party, to prolonged scrutiny and increased the chances of this kind of self-immolation. Gore has been extraordinarily shrewd in his use of this last year to build his bonafides and increase his legitimacy as a candidate while keepin’ the paid assassins of the corporate media at bay.
I originally thought Big Al would wait until Labor Day to announce but I think recent events both nationally and within the Democratic Party have caused him to push up the announcement to the 4th of July. In any case, you betcha he’s runnin’!!! Al Gore can’t help himself, he doesn’t have much truck with fools though he manages ‘em pretty well and the current crop of Democratic candidates have all exposed their rather substantial foolish sides recently.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS BATTLE IS GUNNA INVOLVE EVERYONE, WHETHER YA LIKE IT ER NOT!!
raven @ 114
One would hope!
SOS @128: Feingold has stated unequivocally that he will not run. Gore has been much more coy about the whole thing. I think he is waiting for a certain momentum to build, IF it builds, at the appropriate time.
Forgive me if I can’t get that worked up against Obama, knowing that Clinton has both A*P*C and IP*C in her corner.
Biodun @ 23
The distinction is extremely important, but in a country that likes to delude itself that there are no class lines and doesn’t see that the majority of its citizens are collateral damage in the class warfare that has been unrelenting since the early 70s, how do you frame the argument?
The other side will bring out the commie shibboleth and then the Democrats will run from both labels: liberal, commie pinkos and soft on terror troop haters.
Totally OfT but I have a question for CHS or one of the other legal minds here:
With the publication of EO 13233 giving the president complete control over presidential records, do you think that will be the rational for destruction of records thereby trying to evade an obstruction of justice charge?
Does the Presidential Records Act of 1978 even matter any more as far as the preservation of records go? I mean Cheney directs the SS to destroy visitor logs, Bush has his SS contingent destroy records from the White House. How many EOs were issued by the boy king that totally eviscerated this act without anyone knowing because they were issued just as numbers because of their “national security” implications?
Biodun @ 132
Confidence is good!
I could live with Obama or Edwards. Hillary a definite no.
Glad to see Obama put this story to rest.
Iana @ 113
Eureka Springs @ 115
Thirded.
SharonRB @ 104
Tipper does not want him to run. He won’t run.
I have to say Shuster is doing a great job. He has AB Stoddard and Ed Shultz on and he really corrected AB’s ReTHUG talking points right to her face…They should give him his own show….
Biodun @ 125
Billables?? I hope you are being paid well!!
I see General Clark is moving to MSNBC. Good.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/06/17/ap3828552.html
Biodun @ 134
OK, call me dumb, but I don’t see what the problem is when you are at a function full of Punjabi-Americans and you say you could be the senator from the Punjab. They love you and support you and there might not be anybody else paying attention to their concerns.
I think Al Gore is running as we speak. He has refused to say he wasn’t going to run.
This way, he can present his points in his books and interviews about his books and avoid the stupid debates. He’ll publicly announce, if he thinks he definitely can get enough people behind him, not money – if he doesn’t think he can win, he won’t go public. I’m sure he doesn’t want to go through that whole thing again and risk losing. Once (when you’ve actually been elected, but have it stolen from you) is enough. JMHO
gnome- I don’t get it either.
Twain @ 106
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatus
GordonM @ 118
Though Hillary did visit here once, and Chris Dodd more than once. But the others must have someone lurking around, listening for hoofbeats. Or not?
CHS – coming to Morgantown in July for a buddies wedding ‘party’ (true wedding in Brazil in January).
My friend Ryan has ‘WVU’ tattooed on his forehead (exaggeration, but he does have the WVU bedsheets and everything else).
The party is at Touchdown Terrace at Mountaineer field on the 21st. I’m excited as I finally get to see Morgantown after hearing about it daily for the two years we were roommates.
Franco @ 145
Shuster is a smart guy, and he’s been watching how Keith does it…
perris @ 130
Good lord, they have a great sound bite dumped into their laps like almost daily. I don’t know how much to blame them and how much to blame the media. But lord knows they don’t have to go peeking under bedskirts to look for this kind of humiliating s**t.
Either he is trying to tank his own run, or those with him are (an inside job). He used to be on the top of my ticket about 5 months ago but fell to Edwards. Lately he is tied (for me) with Hillary. In a few more days he will be down in the #3 hole.
Kinda annoyed as the “haircut”, and these Obama things are giving Hillary a cakewalk to the nomination that I do not think she (or anyone) deservers. The way the media is these decades you can’t let things get away or they will annoint their choice right quick.
Sad that Edwards is in 3rd place right now (polls – nation-wide) considering he is promising people to do the most of what they want, and is most up-front about what his plans are. The other people really have not said a damn thing about what the hell they are going to do.
james @ 137
And what recourse does congress have to an executive order? Can the president just go around issuing edicts without approval by congress?
I emailed the obama campaign, asking that he retract that particularly nasty bit of oppo research.
but they get lots of email so I’m not optimistic that anyone will read it anytime soon, let alone respond.
I wrote: I understand from the NYTimes and NYdaily news that your campaign has issued some opposition research on hillary clinton that is pretty ugly.
please confirm that your campaign has NOT done something like this. it’s pretty low really, especially considering that you’ve been campaigning on making a difference, changing the culture.
assuming the daily news got it right, please retract that nasty bit of oppo research. let’s not give the repugnicans more grist for their campaign mills! you know that whatever mud you sling they benefit from; the rove pollution machine is known for such dirty tricks (they even make stuff up!) – and frankly it hurts you and the image you are trying to project.
Getting through the primaries without having to take any firm positions on controversial issues is a MAJOR victory- like Woody Hayes- winning without ever putting the ball in the air. It gives a huge advantage going into the general election.
Interesting that MSNBC has the polls as HRC then Obama, then GORE!!! I think that is telling. I think Gore’s in. Gore vs Thompson
http://electioncentral.tpmcafe…..ab_screwup
FYI, This is a great article regarding the Obama “comment”.
I wish people would not indulge in xenophobic blather about “exporting jobs.” Only some of the job categories can be done abroad and let’s face it: if exporting those jobs makes the company more profitable 9and bigger), the net result will be MORE jobs for people, not fewer.
I know this is not the traditional Democratic viwe which holds that somehow corporations should be forced/enjoined to hire Americans, but if a company cannot stay profitable hiring only Americans and then goes belly up, that ends up costing profoundly MORE US employment than exporting certain segments of the operations.
Traditionally, manufacturing and other unskilled aspects of the business can be exported, but administration, operations, financial, marketing, distribution and other facets are kept here. So more profit for the company means more jobs for everyone.
Also, in order to protect the jobs of the future, the rest of the world needs to be brought up to speed vis a vis our economy. (i.e. natives of other nations need to be able to buy OUR products too, as well as simply selling to us). And that won’t happen unless their economies develop.
Hate to rain on everybody’s parade here, but I think the whole “anti globalization” movement is a bit shortsighted and provincial.
spurious @ 156
Apparently this administration can and has.
LS @ 159
And I believe my guy will trounce Fred. ;0)
If only God would clone a thousand Shusters.
That man is direct, concise and chock full of facts.
He’s the anti-mainstream media.
-GSD
In answer to several posts:
Re: Feingold
He has said he will not run for President, but has not ruled out VP.
Re: Tipper
She has said if Al decides he wants to run, she will be behind him 100%.
Re: Gore announcing the 4th of July
He absolutely will not announce before the Live Earth concerts on July 7 — he will not want to politicize them.
My best guess is late August or September. I hope it’s no later than that. He is the only one who can afford to wait even that late at this point. Money is not an issue — he has plenty and can raise plenty online the second he announces (I can hear the ActBlue computers crashing as I type). Right now, with all the publicity, he’s getting for free what a lot of the other candidates are already spending money on.
ReneND @ 144
Good. Can’t imagine what he was doing at Fox.
Mandrake @ 154
democrats need to respond each and every time something like this is spewed, they need to EMBARRASS snow for even THINKING about saying things as REDICULOUS as that…things like so;
“what kind of people think the American people are such idiots that they think they can repeat such a brazen unadolterated lie
or WORSE then that, what kind of detached person would actually believe what Snow just told to the journalists…what is wrong with these people?”
things like that…PUNISH him for acting like Americans are morons
SharonRB @ 165
;0)
Also, Justin.
The Obama flap is over with.
Thanks for debating.
-GSD
Super diary on Gore at Kos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/17/23825/7792
jaonnegmurphy @ 161
How about letting the government step in and level the playing field? Perhaps fine companies that outsource jobs, give tax breaks to companies that keep jobs here. I think that would be a good start.
That way, corporations would not be in these horribly debasing wars with each other over profits that makes them do such evil, evil things, like exploit cheap labor and destroy the environment, both here and overseas. They’d have a set of standards to go by so they wouldn’t have to be so homicidally desperate about profits. I think that would be a lovely start to ending this madness.
spurious @ 165
Some truth telling.
Obama did not hire Rove, as far as I know, but he hired the next closest thing, David Axelrod, who, by the way, used to run Billy’s campaigns. This is the type of stuff Billy and Hillary used to do, JUST READ BERNSTEIN’S BOOK (Suprised on how it resembled Seymour Hersh in style).
The D-Punjab is not racist in the slightest. It implies nothing about race, or slight, thereof.
It is not dirty politics when it is true. Rove/Bush asking voters in SC whether they would support McCain if they knew he fathered an illigetimate child (refering to McCain’s adoptive Bangledeshi daughter) is DIRTY POLITICS BECAUSE IT IS NOT TRUE.
Frankly, I’m heartsick about the Obama campaign. First pardon Scooter from his general counsel and now this racist memo from aides. Who the heck hired these folks. Haven’t we had to deal with incompetents for long enough?
Sorry, but this really clouds Obama for me. What kind of people does he have working for him that they thought this was alright? Well, it isn’t alright with me.
I remain convinced that come January 2009, we will be talking about President Al Gore.
GSD @ 169
Is it? Just because he apologized for the “Punjab” comment? I must have missed something.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 173
I’m with you on that.
SharonRB @ 165
I’m betting he waits a bit longer than that. Well after Labor Day. Once it is clear we won’t be leaving Iraq any time soon (the September report will be muddy enough to keep up there for the duration of the Bush Administration), Al will allow himself to be drafted. I think he will stay above the fray until the last possible minute (which may be filing deadlines in primary States or even the convention itself). Stranger things have happened and I think he needs to be seen as reluctant to run for as long as possible. But a warmongering frontrunner would convince him to run, I’m sure.
Kewalo @ 173
As I said earlier, I think his inexperience is really starting to show.
Don’t bet on it. They’ll move everything possible to where labor is cheaper.
Hands-on jobs can’t be moved easily – but the workers can be replaced with lower-cost bodies. (Think ‘contractors’.)
if anyone is interested in developing a web site to draft gore, I have a bunch of domains I have registered but no not how to develope
things like
“draftalgoreforpresident”
I have some great titles, including dot coms and dot orgs
let me know if anyone wants to develope
You gotta see Mike Gravel’s youtube. He stares in the camera for 2 minutes and then throws a rock in a lake. A Firedoglake perhaps?
Mandrake @ 174
It’s over for me.
Obama confirmed that it was a bad tactic and that is what I felt.
I am not going to spend a month harping on the issue. I know many don’t see it my way, but I think that Barak Obama did, and he felt it needed an apology.
-GSD
jaonnegmurphy @ 163
I agree with you to some extent. Wesley Clark speaks eloquently on this subject.
What we need are innovative, creative, 21st century thinkers to devise new technologies for new markets, e.g., environmental. Then there’d be jobs galore.
It might happen if we could get the oil industry out of the White House.
ReneND @ 169
Wonder if his departure is voluntary? Probably a ‘mutual agreement’.
raven @ 182
Mike and the Rock
raven @ 180
The ripples, the ripples. Kind of like the butterfly effect….
-GSD
Oklahoma kiddo @ 163
I have always found it very interesting that Gore is always mentioned in Hillary v. Obama polls, considering the guy is not running (not right now). He’s treated like a Hillary/Obama top tier candidate and he’s not even in the race. =)
Mandrake @ 137
Gore said that he has no plans at the present to run. He also said that this campaign is starting obscenely early. So maybe at a decent time he wil get in. He wont run again in 12 years.
jaonnegmurphy @ 162
The problem is that outsourcing does not return more jobs. All it does is allow corporations to post record profits, pay their executives obscene amounts of money, and contribute more to politicians who help create more outsourcing. Follow the money, see who benefits. It’s not the American people, that’s for sure.
GSD @ 186
This dude is a trip without a suitcase!
On “Shuster”, Gravel is throwing a rock in a lake. That makes ripples which is a “metaphor”…for his campaign… But I like it… If only Gravel and Ron Paul had their own TV show. Gravel: “It’s Art and it’s a Metaphor.”
Gore/Clark!
GSD @ 182
Well, I guess that negates the whole tone of the memo for you. Well, that’s fine – I just wondered if I’m the only one who thinks this “Hillary & outsourcing to India” issue is really not resolved.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 177
From your mouth to Al’s ears!
Run, Al, run!
Patrick Henry @ 190
I’m goin’ with a suggestion put out by Eureka Springs:
Gore/Waters
Mandrake @ 188
Good point. Al Gore is the GOP’s worst nightmare.
spurious @ 151
I have seen both Edwards and Biden use arguments from blogs within hours of the post. The Edwards campaign has the reputation of being very open & responsive to bloggers (not so Obama or Clinton). My impression is that Edwards really embraces the new stuff, and Biden is smart enough to keep a close eye on it, but for Obama and Clinton it’s a way to get publicity out and that’s all. (No impression re Dodd.)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 195
Please
I just don’t see the mock designation as racist at all.
Jeez, isn’t the point of the quip clear? Is it not something like: “her support for policies that result in outsourcing is so strong that she ought to be the senator representing Punjab – an area benefitting greatly from those policies”?
What on earth is racist about that?
What part of the mock designation was negative toward Indians? Is simply associating India with outsourcing somehow use of a “racist stereotype”? Sorry, not buying it.
Willfully overlooking inconvenient facts (thanks for trying, Biodun & Justin) in the rush to tarnish “the enemy” – I usually think of that kind of tribal behavior as a characteristic of “the right”. This thread is a rather unsettling reminder to the contrary. :-(
Patrick Henry @ 189
That just looks right.
Elliott @ 194
Mandrake @ 179
I hope it’s just inexperience. But IMO this shakes my confidence that he would make good choices in personel. God only knows we’ve seen the results of hiring incompetents for the last 6 years.
I truely pray there is some way we can get Gore to run.
Gore/Whitehouse
Richardson! Can I get a second. Hasn’t he articulated a plan to to extract from Iraq?
If he’s electable in New Mexico, why not Ohio, Florida and California? Could a candidate win with every state ending in a vowel?
Shanghai Slim @ 199
You can’t mention anything about race or gender, cheeseee where ya been?
P J Evans @ 177
IT jobs began being outsourced years ago.
LS @ 202
oh my yes.
I don’t like Barack Obama. I really don’t get what the big deal over him is. He’s boring. He should not ever be compared to Martin Luther King. King was an inspiration. Barack is not.
raven @196: I haven’t been a good girl this year and I don’t deserve it at all, but YES, PUH-LEEEEEZZZZZ!! Ohhhh, the retribution, the retribution, yeeesssss!! (gleefully rubbing hands together, eyes glassing over, drooling profusely on chin)
jaonnegmurphy @ 161
There’s some truth in those arguments. The problem is that what globalization is really about is the ability for capital to move freely about the globe. When you can move jobs, goods and capital freely, there is no reason for the elites to leave anything in the USA. They can strip it bare in no time at all. You know how big companies demand tax breaks from towns to move in there? Now they’re doing it to countries.
TiredFed @ 205
But don’t we need the most honorable Whitehouse as Attorney General?
Juliana @ 205
I went to an Obama rally where 22,000 people showed up. He was great. He was charismatic. He made sense, and he was informed. The young people went crazy over him.
David Neiwert upstairs on the train
Fresh thread for everyone, if you want one.
To repeat myself: why not Richardson? He has articulated a plan to get us the h out of Iraq.
Electable in New Mexico. Why not in California, Florida,and Ohio and every other state ending in a vowel?
GSD @ 169
A pleasure. Hopefully the post will be updated with the additional information!
Pach, thanks for this post.
Thanks also for addressing the “circular firing squad” meme – a very effective rhetorical tool to shut off criticism/scrutiny of those seeking the power to be President.
I read how great people feel when they hear Obama speak.
That’s a great criteria for selecting a sex toy.
From the President, I’m looking for policies – not orgasms.
Thanks for focusing on Obama’s actions. Last week his campaign counsel signed off on Scooter’s pardon campaign. Then Obama throws racist slurs in the mix.
What ever words come out of Obama’s mouth – whatever warm fuzzies may course through his supporters when they hear him speak – Obama is no progressive.
DLC tool from the Chicago machine in expensive suits.
Even wrapped in Aramani, machine tools underfoot cause trips and falls.
Obama – untrustworthy in any clothes.
New Thread upstairs, but for what it’s worth, I just pre-purchased Glenn Greenwald’s new book at a nice discount, and threw in Al Gore’s book just to get the free shipping.
Anybody wanna bet a burrito on Gore running?
Mandrake @ 210
I think I mean pullleeezzeeee
Elliott @ 211
Only if Comey can come back and help him fix everything. Actually, I think we need new blood like Whitehouse in the Executive Branch.
FYI, new thread
raven @ 182
And Fire.
jc in OR @ 216
Uh, I’m not voting for anyone that Timmeh can reduce to a plate of quivering jello, whatever his platform.
By October we will see the field narrow significantly to Hillary. The fact is that she is far from capturing the Dem. base. She has an excellent machine humming right along but it’s clear she’s soft.
If Obama, Edwards and Richardson fade significantly look for Al to jump in.
Gore/anybody! Clark, Richardson, Obama. Even Hillary but no way is she running as VP.
Patrick Henry @ 225
Now THAT’S the Audacity of Hope!
GordonM @ 224
I’m afraid I’m with you. I was interested until the Timmeh debacle and then I got spooked.
Patrick Henry @ 225
I think that’s the only way that Gore enters – if there’s no one left but Hillary.
Still an Edwards fan, myself.
The concept of “drafting” a presidential candidate is leftover from history where the convention actually selected the candidate. If they didn’t have a clear winner- the convention could “draft” someone and uncommitted delegates would vote for the drafted person.
Not likely to happen now- although if no one really takes a majority of delegates in the primaries- it COULD still happen.
GordonM @ 224
Mandrake @ 228
Well then I guess I should be spooked, too. Only trouble is I have no idea what you are talking about.
jc in Or at 231: “Well then I guess I should be spooked, too. Only trouble is I have no idea what you are talking about.“
Richardson went on Meet the Press. Tim Russert reduced him to a blubbering fool. If Tim can do that, Richardson wouldn’t get through the 1st 5 minutes of a debate.
Shemp Lugosi, I am sorry that you have to share you weird unhappiness with us. What did Bill and Hillary do to you? Too much peace and prosperity? But your comments are way out of line and you are abusing the privileges provided here. This is the friendly part of town. What is your problem?
Frank33 @ 233
Frank – didn’t you see Guiliani talking about how horrid it would be to return to the economy of the 1990’s?
GordonM @ 232
Actually I am more interested in his action regarding the 9-11 attack on the World Trade Center. But Rudi has a large legacy that should be explored.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 109
I agree– but I also think that the frequent references to “codpiece” are also obnoxious and unnecessarily crude. In what way are they different? Maybe I have a hard time with snark.
Bob in HI
I know, EPUland. But via Froomkin, here’s my nomination for the money quote from Hersh’s article.
“The President’s failure to act…”
My Pet Goat, anyone? How about air guitar? Or the Texas National Guard champagne division?
“Just walk away, Dub-yay….”
>> Clinton leads Obama by double digits.
Obama is, and always has been, a stalking horse to confuse and divide the opposition in favor of Hillary Clinton. It certainly kept Edwards out of second place.
Bob that line alone is an invitation to a snark fest. *s* I say when the commander wears one for publicity purposes… it’s a whole new ball game.
Mods. My apologies. I appear to be attributing to Gordon M. my left-thumbing comments. (see 235)
Just delete it, if you will, and I’ll go do some homework.
Outsourcing is still a major issue, and Obama’s camp is correct to quote Hillary. This just in: Obama leads in Edward’s home state!
GO BAMA
Frank33 @ 233
Bill Clinton is the greatest president I never voted for. But I’m not naive – both he & Hillary are bought & paid for, just like ALL the Republican candidates & most of the dems. And IF I am “abusing” the “priveleges” of posting here, I’m sure someone with more authority than you will tell me about it. As for my “weird unhappiness”, well if that’s how you see it, so be it. To quote a line from one of comedy goddess Lily Tomlin’s routines, “I am whatever you see me as.” But my life is rockin’ and I’ve got less than no time for political correctness of ANY sort.
As I said, what is your problem? The world was a safer place 7 years ago, and everyone was financially more prosperous. If Bill and Hillary are bought and paid for, tell us by who and when. Contribute to the debate. But you need to acknowlege our host, and the guests should be respected. So far you have contributed rudeness and vulgarity.
Shemp Lugosi @ 241
Or manners, apparently.
But, keep saying it out loud, and maybe someday soon you’ll believe it.
Frank33 @ 242
Hey man, I wasn’t the one who called Hillary “Sen. Clintoris”, I just said I thought it was hilarious. But I can see where your comments and those of others who are taking offense against me are headed. You wanna censor me and shut me up the same way the neocons wanted to silence Rosie O’Donnell. If I’m not free to comment whichever way I deem appropriate, then what is the point of even having this website?
And just for the record, I have the utmost respect for Jane Hamsher. She doesn’t need me to say that, but obviously you and all others JUDGING ME do, so there you have it.
And if you TRULY believe that Hillary, Obama and the rest are NOT beholden to their corporate contributors, I feel sorry for you!
[Mod Note; Christy asked that we avoid that term and let’s honor her request.]
Eureka Springs @ 238
OK, Wikipedia is my friend. Previously, I was trying to guess what “codpiece” meant from context. I was, um, close, but not correct– although some people are apparently using the word as an anatomical, rather than sartorial, reference.
Bob in HI
[Mod Note; Christy asked that we avoid that term and let’s honor her request.]
Ok, moderator, I won’t mention “it” again. But it is because YOU, the moderator, asked me to, not any other reason. I guess Freedom Of Speech doesn’t really exist around here, same as it is so many other places on the internet and in the real world.
I believe if we cower before ANY words, then we give our power over to those words and have nothing left for ourselves when it truly matters.
What I’m left with after this posting experience is the same feeling I had when I read the end of Animal Farm.
Obama did comment. He took responsibility and apologized. He did so probably about the same time your post was written.
And that “non-partisan” USINPAC is actually a self-proclaimed bipartisan organization with 50,000 members headed by one Sanjay Puri who has been quoted quite often in the media.
Mr. Puri is well-known to Sen. Clinton (if you had read the attack memo you’d know this).
Sen. Clinton founded and now co-chairs the Senate India Caucus, a project that USINPAC was working to develop for years.
Further, Mr. Puri is founder and CEO of Optimos, a company involved heavily in outsourcing. As such, he stands to gain from Sen. Clinton’s Senate support for outsourcing.
Mr. Puri has yet to explain exactly what is racist about the attack memo. Instead he relies on “some say” it sounded racist. Was it over-the-top and full of superfluous drivel? Sure. But what was racist in it? Please explain.
Shameless plug: more on the apparent lack of racism (now calling out Senators for supporting outsourcing is racist?) here and Mr. Puri’s (and USINPAC’s) ties to Sen. Clinton here. After 7 years of Rovian BS haven’t we learned to not take everything the media regurgitates at face value.
Just wondering HOW MANY jobs that are outsourced by the US-INDIA JOB THEFT COMMAND before liberal wackos might actually notice.
And specifically WHERE do Americans think that they will actually work if Indians take all the jobs. For every American, there are 4 Indians. If we trade straight up, one American for one Indian, all the Americans will be out of work and there will still be 3 Indians insisting that we hire them.
Outsourcing is NOT a patriotic approach.
And, no, we don’t need to be racist to actually want Americans to get jobs in America.
Those who actually believe in the tooth fairy and helpful Indians might wish to examine the little video which is going around now, in which the American TRAITOR LAW FIRM Cohen and Grigsby RUNS SEMINARS in RUNNING FAKE ADS to ALLOW THEM TO OUTSOURCE MORE QUICKLY AND LEGALLY.
http://www.youtube.com/v/TCbFEgFajGU
The jobs are being stolen by INDIAN TECH FIRMS!!!
[Mod Note; edited to remove insults to other commenters.]
james @ 139
I guess it wasn’t worth taking the time to ask??
Thanks
Folks, as an recently migrated Indian American, I’d suggest to you that Sen. Obama’s comment was snarky, but not racial slur of any sort.
He’s right in pointing out that HRC is quite pro-outsourcing to India, as was her husband. Which is also precisely why the USINPAC is all over the Clintons (at least the ones not all over the Repugs).
Sen. Obama, please don’t get side-tracked by baseless accusations, and psuedo-racial sensitivity. Your sarcasm was spot on.
Debashish
It is certainly possible to say that “Indian tech firms are pro-Hillary because she will increase the H-1B visa numbers.” without being a racist, because it is true.
It is also possible to say that “USINPAC is a nest of economic traitors who make money by removing jobs from Americans and giving them to Indians” again without being racist, because it is true.
He has always impressed me with his intelligence and particularly with an acute situational awareness. And here he is playing right in the pocket… beautiful. See, as long as he can blame campaign staff for dumb mistakes and still kick Hillary in the balls he will do great!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 13
But, on the other hand, the general electorate does appear to be fooled or just doesn’t care.
It’s all about the charisma star quality!
Watch the polls and see if Obama drops any. If he doesn’t, then you can be they just don’t give a damn what a politician stands for. If they don’t respond it means the public only cares about a nice smile and someone with whom they can identify.
‘Course my question with Obama is how many Whites in the Democratic party are gonna identify with him enough to make him the nominee. I think it’s more likely in the Dem party, but still…
Now if all those nice people would just move over from Obama to Edwards or Dodd, then we’d have a real race between Clinton and somebody of substance.
Frank33 @ 34
It makes me wonder if she’s been receiving campaign funds from Asia the same way her husband did (Lippo Group, Johnny Chung, etc.). Somebody oughta check it out.
The “Magic” wore off a lot quicker than even I anticipated.
Stick a fork in him. He’s done.
bonkers @ 91
Pray tell, what is it about Obama that appeals to you? In particular what appeals to you more than some other candidates like Edwards, Dodd or Biden?
If you want articulate you’ve got the very experienced Biden.
If you want attractive you’ve got Edwards (with the Southern drawl and all).
If you want distinguished older-looking experienced guy you’ve got Dodd.
What is it about Obama, with his youthful mistakes and all, that appeals?
raven @ 116
Well, there’s one thing Clinton & Obama seem to have in common: neither one dares say or do anything without checking polls or advisors.
Their campaign symbol should be a finger testing the winds.
Biodun @ 133
Second, that she’s arrogant or stupid enough to believe that (see health care reform ‘93).
raven @ 182
Get outta here! Really? Cool.
Is that some kinda Zen statement or weird Alaskan environmental statement or has he been smokin’ something?
Ha!
jc in OR @ 216
I like him, but he seems far too willing to stick his foot in his mouth — a little like Obama. I’d love to see Richardson back in the Executive branch in some capacity.
Obama disavowing the Clinton/Punjab memo goes from the dog ate my homework to I did’nt know that was my homework. Looks like this is going to be the trend in this campaign where candidates leak attack papers penned by “irresponsible and rogue” campign members, they get out and do the damage they were intended to do, and the candidate apoligizes that day or the next after the release of the attack. How many times can a candidate persue this strategy before they lose their credibility that if they can’t control and oversee their own campaign, how can they have an effective administration in the White House? We ought to keep a running tally of these occurences of leaking these damaging memos and hold these people responsible in the end for the sum of their errors. Let’s see who ends up knee deep in mud or up to thier waist in the muck.
MarkH @ 261
Yeah. Up thread folks were saying he blew it because of his performance on the Russert show. I am going to watch the replay to see what’s up with that. Puts his foot in his mouth. Hmm. I can’t see that’s an insuperable disadvantage, as we just saw two consecutive losses by big city lawyers with deep pockets and fairly good grammar who couldn’t come up with a plan when they went up against conman from Texas with balls and connections.
Obama is an empty suit pumped up by the wretched David Axelrod. Axelrod’s the main reason why we’ve had to deal with noted mouthbreather Richard M. Daley as mayor in this town for the last umpteen years.
http://www.akpmedia.com/partners/daxelrod.html
In 2004, Axelrod helped State Senator Barack Obama score a landslide win in his U.S. Senate campaign, developing a message and media strategy that enabled Obama to defeat six opponents in the Democratic primary with an astounding 53% of the vote. He is currently serving as media advisor to Obama’s presidential campaign.
Neither Obama nor his oppo people have anything to apologize for: there was nothing inappropriate about his attack on Clinton.
Economic nationalism is not the same thing as racism. Conflating the two is buying into the Brad Delong/Thomas Friedman/Mark Penn smear against the anti-offshoring movement.
What the Obama campaign was saying was that Clinton’s economic program benefits developing countries like India at the expense of the working class.
You can agree or disagree, but to make it out as some kind of bigotry is just a smear from people who do not want to argue the actual issues.
FDL is mostly a good site, but bullshit like this post is a reminder that the limousine liberal wing of the Democratic party is still alive in some sectors of the blogosphere — the sooner a stake gets driven through its heart, the better.
That is, if the Democratic party is ever going to be transformed into a party which truly appeals to working Americans instead of Hollywood dilettantes.
First, Obama is not a member of the DLC. Gore was (still is? not sure), Hillary is, Edwards was (is? not sure) DLC. All the frontrunners in the Dem race are DLC currently or formerly, except Obama.
Second, the “Punjab” after Hillary’s name is from her own tasteless joke that she could easily be elected for Mayor of that city in India because she has done so much for them.
Third, the Indian community Hillary has helped is the elite, business-owning community that has already raised $1 million for her and promised to raise $4 million more this year, not the average struggling Indian American worker or the workers in India.
Fourth, the trail of the memo is: a person took this information from Obama’s campaign to Hillary while Obama’s people were showing it to newspapers to see if they’d fact-check it and do a story on their own. Next Hillary took it to the NYT to demand they print a story on Obama’s “dirty tactics”. Finally, a leader in Hillary’s principle Indian American large-money donor group wrote an Op Ed to agree with Hillary that Obama is playing “dirty”.
Fifth, please read the memos. Absolutely nothing in them was as offensive as Hillary’s Indians-as-convenience-store owners “joke”.
Finally, note that Obama did not go into attack-dog mode, in spite of all these misrepresentations of the facts.
I want Obama for President – he is mature beyond his years and has tremendous self-control. I wish more Dem candidates were like him.
Um, can someone explain to me why pointing out that an American elected official seems to be doing a better job of representing the economic interest of another country of America is racist? We have a serious problem with outsourcing in this country, and politicians that do not put the interest of the American people over the almighty dollar, especially ones that call themselves Democrats, need to be called on it.
The Des Moines Register’s star Indian-American columnist Rekha Basu praised Obama in her column on all this today:
http://dmregister.com/apps/pbc…..90358/1001
The primary reason why I won’t support Hillary in the primary and general election is because she favors shipping good paying American jobs to India. Asia Times in March, 2005 had a story on Hillary wooing India and saying that outsourcing of good paying jobs to India was fine with her. I’d like to ship Hillary’s job to India and see how she likes living off the salary of a greeter at Walmart.
I’m no fan of Obama, but I agree with this memo. Hillary is actively courting dollars from Indian American lobbyists who favor killing the American Middle Class.
Why not address the important issue that these memos bring to light, namely the accellerating loss of decent jobs in America because of greedy corporations and greedy politicians like the Clintons? Oh yeah, because it’s all about the horse race and who will be the DEMOCRATIC nominee! Horray! Haven’t we learned anything about what the democrats “stand for” from this congress? The Democrats tell us nice pleasing things when they screw us over, unlike the Republicans who threaten us with terrorism while they screw us. I agree with this comment above: “Absolutely nothing in them was as offensive as Hillary’s Indians-as-convenience-store owners “joke”.”
Just back from a trip, havent waded through all these comments, but just wanted to ask: who in the Obama campaign is responsible for this? I smell a Rovian agent provocateur.