While the RNC has been hitting the delete button for an estimated 51 out of 88 total White House officials who have been using the outside RNC e-mail accounts – you read that correctly, destroyed e-mail records for 51 White House officials by the RNC the real world implications for this misconduct have already begun.
The fallout from the Bush Administration’s political machinations at the DOJ is rippling outward into criminal prosecutions. From the LATimes (via reader Hilde):
The firing of the eight prosecutors last year has drawn attention because once appointed, U.S. attorneys traditionally have been allowed to serve until they resign or are ousted because of misconduct. New administrations routinely make changes as well.Gonzales has defended the dismissals as justified for performance reasons, saying that some of the prosecutors failed to follow administration law-enforcement priorities.
But Democrats say there is evidence that the dismissals were part of a Bush administration effort to affect investigations in public corruption and voting cases that would assist Republicans. The probe has also shown that politics may have played a role in the hiring of some career Justice employees, in possible violation of federal law.
The controversy has drained morale from U.S. attorney offices around the country. And now, legal experts and former Justice Department officials say, it is casting a shadow over the integrity of the department and its corps of career prosecutors in court.
There has long been a presumption that, because they represented the Justice Department, prosecutors had no political agenda and their word could be trusted. But some legal experts say the controversy threatens to undermine their credibility.
“It provides defendants an opportunity to make an argument that would not have been made two years ago,” said Daniel J. French, a former U.S. attorney in Albany, N.Y. “It has a tremendously corrosive effect.”
Defense lawyers in political corruption cases often argue to juries that the prosecution was motivated by politics, especially when the prosecutor happens to be of a different political party than the defendant.
B. Todd Jones, a former U.S. attorney in Minneapolis, said such arguments are now “given credence in the public eye because they are seeing that maybe there were political decisions made. Any defense lawyer worth their salt is going to say this is a political prosecution that shouldn’t have been brought.”
The controversy may also be feeding anti-government feelings that many jurors bring to cases, even when defense lawyers do not overtly try to exploit the situation.
“It has become part of the background that jurors have in their minds when they deliberate,” said Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Burbank), a former assistant U.S. attorney. “Jurors will think, ‘Gee, is there a political motivation for this? Is it being brought because the U.S. attorney wants to curry favor with the attorney general and keep his job?’ Corruption cases are tough enough to prosecute without having to defend yourself against attack.”
As a prosecutor, the most valuable asset that you have in the courtroom and out of it is your reputation for honesty and integrity, and for upholding the rule of law in a fair and just manner. The Bush Administration tossed that aside for each and every decent attorney working in USAtty offices across this nation in a bid to gain some temporary political advantage is a craven example of how low a regard the Bushies have for any sort of standard of ethics. And how much emphasis they placed on loyalty to Bush Administration aims above all else, including to the nation as a whole.
Everything is subordinate to Rove’s math. Everything.
The Bush Administration has sullied the Department of Justice, and saddled USAttys nationwide with Rovian baggage every single time they step in a courtroom. They have treated the rule of law as if it were a “do you want fries with that” level of opt-in, and diverted every resource at their disposal toward the Rule of Karl.
The fallout from this will be long and arduous, and it must all be laid at the feet of the people who initiated the damage: the Bush Administration. Bring on the sunshine. The only way out of this mess is to know how deeply these festering roots go into the heart of our nation’s justice system — and every other administrative agency across the board. The time for accountability is now.
(Duck and cover ipod shot via striatic. Great photo!)
UPDATE: On the RNC e-mail deletions: Rep. Waxman has more. As does the Speaker’s blog. As does the WaPo.
Related posts:
- Bush Officials Compromised Renzi Investigation for Political Gain
- RNC Leader Steele Confuses Dick’s Pre-Crime with Justice
- Washington Post: Rove More Involved in US Attorney Firings Than He Claims
- FDL Exclusive: New Communications Guidelines Emphasize DOJ Independence
- Does Obama Policy Allow Politicized Contact Between White House and Justice?
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Hi gang!
Dos o tres para Hillary, and 250,000 for Karl…
le troisieme de nouvaux
I just loved this picture. :)
Does it seem that AGAG assumes that (because of the failure of no-confidence motion, presumably) he has won? Appointing a last interim (A)USA before the lid slammed shut was nothing but a flying fickle finger to Congress, and this latest move to set up a formal mechanism for political review of USA’s activities are not the acts of a person walking on eggs: he feels that he has gotten through it all, free and clear, doesn’t he?
Has he?
More evidence of KKKarl’s involvement: PIC
Bushco stains everything it touches.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 4
Is that a “duck and cover” reference?
Tommy Yum at 8 — Yes, it is. *g*
We may have to re-create the entire DOJ from
scrap, uh, from scratch! I remember asking here several weeks ago where the ramifications might lead to from Goodling and others’ influence on the hiring of far less qualified applicants over many who were more qualified. The overwhelming nature of the Bush Junta’s crimes appears more extensive and daunting every hour.Christy, Before the crowd arrives, could I ask you whether West Virginia would be a good place to move to? Couple in their 60s, a scientist-turned-writer and a healer, not much cash, require organic food, etc.
It is a great pic, Christy. Cute and appropriate.
It bothers me that Karl and his minions are so deluded that instead of coming to the realization that they are in the wrong and outside of the law, that they will simply say, oops, we need to double-down since we apparently didn’t execute properly during the last push.
Abu G.’s slated meetings with all the USA’s in what appears to be an effort to encourage their enhanced politicization (threaten them?) seems to be a double-down, for example, as does the new push against voter fraud in NC.
Ed*ard Teller @ 10
IIRC it was Comey who testified there may be no way to put that Genie back into the bottle.
Wups, here’s the crowd!
Christy, you’re on fire this morning!
Thank you!
I guess I’m grateful that, as everywhere else, Rove’s putsch has been sufficiently clumsy that the boomerangs they unleashed all seem to be heading back at them, and their slimy tactics are becoming increasingly well known, thanks to oversight hearings.
Bob in HI
I suppose my question to the tech people among us is: The RNC may have pushed the button but they didn’t own (apparently) the servers or control the backup systems so aren’t those emails still out there? Also didn’t Leahy recently say that supposedly destroyed emails had in fact been found?
behindthefall at 11 — Well, I think so. Cost of living here is not horribly high, so that’s a plus on a fixed income. The organic food issue is a little more difficult, but if you were looking for more of that, the Morgantown area near the University has several health food stores within walking distance of downtown. And they have a lovely community theater group and lots of concerts and such througout the year as well. We love it — but then, being a WV girl born and raised, I’m a bit biased. *g* Here’s a good website to start for information on the state.
With regard to the RNC email accounts:
1) I still think it is highly likely that most of those emails were downloaded to the computer hard drives. There are any number of ways to “hide” them so that they do not turn up in a search. For instance, Karl Rove may have had a special PST archive file set up on his computer in which he stored “important” messages, or things that he might want to retain.
2) IANAL, but the pattern of so many WH people using RNC accounts to communicate means that someone had to set them up, and maintain them. In other words, there had to be a concerted effort (read “conspiracy”) to circumvent the Records Laws and keep the communications off of the ‘official’ channels.
3) Why does the RNC permeate the White House? Who in the RNC was giving instructions to the White House? This really blurs the line between US government, elected by the people, and the RNC, which benefits a select few.
With regard to the DoJ, every USA with any integrity should resign in protest. That sounds radical, but if I were in one of those positions, and someone like Alberto Gonzales was going to ruin my career, I would want to make some serious noise about it in PUBLIC!
Christy, if you’ll allow me to play devils advocate for a moment, so what? I mean, really? For 7 years I have been waiting for the Scandal du Jour to finally result in some actual, tangible consequenses. I am seriously beginning to question whether this, or any scandal will really resonate enough for anything to happen. And this isn’t one of those ’screw it, everything will be bad forever’ comments. I’m being serious. Is there anything about this, the email deletions, or any other current scandal that will result in actual, you know, action, and if so, why this time and not the others? Thanks.
Is deleting that evidence a crime? At what point does it become a crime?
Hugh at 16 — They should be retreivable, at least in part, from the servers. And it is my understanding that Leahy has made requests to that effect. We shall see and, in the meantime, some folks at the RNC ought to feel some public heat.
So did y’all read Ralston’s deposition? I did, and from what I could tell, she told us a whole lotta nothing. Just confirmed what we already knew. Plead the 5th a lot. Although her attorney said it wasn’t really pleading the 5th, what with her being there voluntarily and all, and even if she was pleading the 5th, it wasn’t cuz she did anything wrong or illegal. It’s just that
“she doesn’t have sufficient comfort that testimony provided in this setting on those subjects will not have some tendency to inculpate her, at least in the eyes of someone who is inclined to be distrustful or to put the worst possible construction on events.”
No wonder these things take so freaking long.
From reading Ralston’s deposition, it sounds like Rove always has 2 computers (an official and a political), but Ralston also refers to the times when Rove has gotten a “new” computers and new blackberrys, so that makes me wonder how many “political” computers he’s had while at the WH!! She said that Fitz’s people took his “computer” and his blackberry. Also, she refers to Rove.com. That is the first I’ve heard of that.
Christy AT 17: THANKS for responding!
I just got back from a trip to a country suffering under a similar regime, Poland. They elected a bunch of nitwitted, nationalist, xenophobic hysterics who have set about brazenly attacking the independent judiciary and making state tv an arm of the ruling coalition. The parallels were eerie.
While I was there I saw a clip of Bush (slouching impertinently), drinking beer with Angela Merkel. It’s funny the things American television won’t show you.
I assume Bush can’t claim Executive Privilege for RNC emails so then when are the Democrats going to start issuing subpoenas. I really want to know if Pumpkin head, Bobo,Broder, Novack and 60 grit got messages or had there own accounts. The Republicans have been issuing talking points that all sound the same I bet they coordinated their message with the MSM through these accounts. Plus with anything GIVEN to reporters Bush cannot claim they were giving him advice so no privilege. Sure it might not be a crime but it would hurt their creditabilty as “independent reporters”. Taking down the talking heads would hurt the Republicans a lot before the election.
I’m with TimE. I’ve seen lots of outrage. Very little in the way of action or results.
From the House Oversight Committee Interim Report:
Bold in original.
Ralston’s attorney in the deposition said she has a lot more substantially material information to tell, but only with appropriate immunity.
TimE at 19 — You mean, like the American public voting the GOP out of control of both houses of Congress back in November? Like that sort of action? Or Libby being convicted of multiple felonies, along with David Safavian, Jack Abramoff, Bob Ney, Duke Cunningham and lots of others currently under federal and state corruption investigation? Or that the public currently gives Bush a 29 percent approval rating for performance and falling? Because to me, that all shows a LOT of movement in terms of public political sentiment, their willingness to take that to the ballot box for some big change, and momentum to push that to even bigger political change in the future — along with some very high profile legal convictions.
and still we have nothing from one of the fired USA’s about illegal activity that they blew the whistle on during their tenure, right?
NONE. that means these wonderful folks were playing right along. one goes to work for the company they are investigating? What kind of character does she have?
one is mad cause the dissed him and said bad thing. All this while Nero fiddles. it is disgusting how few of the GOP have actually come out and exposed the crimes they know of.
Have I missed any examples of splendid behavior here?
Good late morning from L.A. So glad you are featuring a link to the LA Times article, CHS. When I went in to work this morning several people were talking about it- dead tree copy has it as the page 1 co-lead headliner.
I notice the online article doesn’t have the eyebrow quote from dead tree’s version, p. 10:
“It has become part of the background that jurors have in their minds when they deliberate. Jurors will think,”Gee, is there a political motivation for this?”- Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Burbank)
Redd: I agree completely. But I am curious. If Gonzales’ actions (including lying to Congressional committees on numerous occasions) are not grevious enough for impeachment proceedings against him, what would get this jerk (Abu) impeached short of committing murder or rape? The whole legacy of our country is being decimated by these creatures in the executive branch, but the ball-less Dems are acting as though this politics as usual instead of displaying a sense of outrage or urgency. Why is that?
LS @ 23
He’s also gotten a new Blackberry once or twice when he’s “lost” one. Um, “lost?” Where are the lost one(s) now and who’s reading it?
LS @ 23
This Rove.com? *g*
JR @ 27
or are we getting closer, step by step…
Biodun @ 34
Ewwwww :C
sonate at 32 — To bring impeachment proceedings, the Dems in the Senate have to be able to count on several GOP votes to push it through. They do not have them at this point. With every drip, drip, drip of bad acts from the DOJ that is brought out into the open, there is no telling which one is the straw that breaks the partisan back on that. But you will no doubt recall the vote on no confidence? If they didn’t have the votes for that, they don’t have the votes for impeachment. And you just don’t make a move like that without having your ducks firmly in a row — look how asinine the GOP looked doing that with the Clinton impeachment mess without doing their homework ahead of time.
Did Bush have an account was he personally involved in this crime? Is that why the White House is moving so slow and lying about this issue are they trying to protect the boss? Considering how Bush reclassified his Dad’s Presidential records he can’t claim ignorace of the Presidential Records act. Is this impeachable, it certainly is an easy issue for voters to understand and the lying about the records has to be obstruction of justice. We need to get these people under Oath!
LS @ 23
At this point isn’t Rove’s mere presence in the White House a violation of the Hatch Act?
Helen @ 34
And he still has his security clearance. Go figure.
oldtree — there’s a limit to how much a U.S. Attorney can disclose about an on-going investigation. I sense a reply from Christy on this one.
Iglesias took advantage of a smear to do something about this situation, may have been waiting for this in order to make it public in the media since doing anything else might have been futile under what many white hat DOJ folks believe to be an excessively politicized system. At least one of the USA’s made a complaint about inappropriate contact with the OPR (was it OIG? correct me if I’m wrong). Bu until there was a Democratically-controlled Congress, there would have been no teeth to do anything else.
And these Republicans appointed under a Republican administration still have to be able to find jobs at some time in the future; they may realize all too well that their careers are hosed if they are not pointedly subpoenaed to talk. What Democrat will feel comfortable in hiring them, after all?
Christy, good points all (except I think the 2006 elections were mostly about Iraq and Katrina, but that is neither here nor there). The only other comment I would make is that none of the things you mention get at the heart of, as I see it, the problem, which is the way the Bush political team completely subsumed the policy team. This gave us such gems as the elimination of habeus, illegal wiretaps, cherrypicked intel, the attorneys scandal, etc. Things which will years and years to undo.
So I completely agree with everything you said, especially the part about the creation of an environment where real change is more likely. I am a pragmatist, after all. I just should have made myself more clear that I was specifically referring to the ‘big picture’ stuff.
Breaking News! In a “remarkable” article David Broder has discovered the Bushies manipulate and exploit corporate journalists to create their Bushie reality. Broder has also discovered the Bush Crime Family uses secrecy to hide their crimes.
Even more remarkably, Broder has discovered Bushies are a bad bet. Incredibly, Democrats were not criticized in Broder’s article.
Marie Roget @ 32
Oops, Schiff quote made it into the body of the article online & in yr. post. Shouldn’t have just skimmed it…
ReddHedd @ circa 38:
Thanks for responding. I would just add that impeachment would be useful from an investigatory perspective in that there can be NO claim of executive privilege on subponead information. I’m afraid that Shrub will succeed in “running out the clock” before investigations can be completed.
And Rove almost exclusively used his political accounts….and handled lots of classified information…some of which was faxed to him in the “situation room”…Ralston pretty much says that Rove was responsible for the State of the Union speech content (all speeches including the one with the 16 words)…and that he spoke “often” with Libby regarding the Plame/Wilson subject.
Rove is a threat to national security.
Pass the brain bleach stat!
Frank33 @ 44
The man is prescient!
egregious @ 41
Y’all caught that too huh? I bet there are all sorts of foreign intel orgs would love to find a KKKarl Blackberry and put their IT staffs to work on it…
i’m confused. didn’t leahey waxman et al. mirror the hard drives of the servers and the local desktop or laptop computers? or did they merely request it? i thought i remembered that a outside technical forensic company had been selected to do the analysis.
but, i don’t seen (in the summary – i haven’t read the full report) any mention this.
did i dream it?
The Republican effort to subpoena Plame, faces obstacles that are likely insurmountable. A majority of members of the committee, which is controlled by the Democratic Party since January, must vote to authorize and issue the subpoena.
If we have to we take out Rove, the GOP press, and who ever else we can first then we go after all the Republican Politicans who I’m sure knew about these emails and probably had recieved messages from Rove and said NOTHING. I think their guilty of obstructing justice. Plus whatever crimes they may have talked about in the emails. Then all the Senate has to do is lose a few Republican members in the scandal and we can hold an impeachment vote.
I’m building a new main float for our canoe, rowboat, sailboat and kayaks. It is made out of treated wood, with the styrofoam floatation enclosed in fiberglass, all of which is my own design/construction. I’m hoping to finish it in two or three more days. I’ll bet that by the time I finish putting in the 500 or so screws, nails, bolts and fasteners to hold it together, at least 500 new crimes committed by the B**sh** Junta will have been uncovered.
Flash, flash, flash
Dateline: Washington DC
Date: September 17, 2009
The Washington Post reported today that
Robert Luakin has finally found Karl Rove’s
e-mails. “They are quite damamging,” Luskin reported but somehow I made a fucking dumb
move and did not save them to my hard drive.
I got a virus and they were gone. I’m really
fucking sorry.”
Rove, now the Chief of Staff for Bush in Albania, said that he would appear next week
at his sixth Grand Jury appearance to explain
what the fuck happened.”
More later
Christy Hardin Smith @ 21
Christy,
Alfred Kelgarries covered this on a comment in last night’s thread by Siun on Iraq. It is his comment #68. If he is correct in his suppositions, a whole lot of the info is already in Leahy and company’s hands.
tbsa @ 52
Their desire of these REPUBLICANS to subpoena an ex-COVERT CIA counter-proliferation Patriot, whose name was outed by members of the REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION, for something so trivial as to whether or not she said, send my husband, or I’ll ask my husband; only goes to show how the CONSPIRACY to retaliate against the Wilsons persists to this day and has spread to Congress.
In Slate, Dahlia Lithwick has some advice for Harriet Miers and Sara Taylor on steps they might take for their congressional testimonies:
EPUd but funny enough to repeat.
from the Ralston deposition (Berenson is her atty).
a Okay. We have a list of about 37 names here I am
22 goìng to go through. For each of these ìndividuals also, if
23 you could teLl us what you know about the position they held
24 at the White House.
25 l4r. Berenson. 0y vey.
Everything is subjugated to Rove’s math.
We are already seeing defendants claim that they are being prosecuted for politically motivated reasons. Did you forget the right wing noise machine attack on the prosecution of Irv “Scooter” Libby? Nevermind that the prosecutor was a republican appointed by a republican who prosecuted a republican. It’s still a political prosecution, or so they would have you believe.
1973 = 2007.
1974 = 2008.
In Watergate years, our Democrats are just getting things to a roiling boil in time for next year. I think our lions — Leahy, Waxman, Conyers — learned something from Watergate’s timing. Bring it all to a boil when your party wants the White House.
wag
ymmv
We must IMPEACH today.
Everday we get another Alice in Wonderland
explanation for OBSTRUCTION of Justice.
May the Queen save us!
I’m really getting tired of people in the RNC and the WH and the DOJ obstructing justice, but until Gonzo is removed, who is going to do anything about it?
TimE @ 19
I have to say that I wonder the same thing. Every time there’s a new fresh horror, we think “Surely, they’ll have to hold them accountable now!” Yet, it never happens. It seems like Bush could hold up the dripping, severed head of John Conyers and everyone would say, “Well, he hated America – he had it coming to him” or something along those lines.
I honestly don’t know what it would take.
selise @ 51
No. but Karl wishes it was just your dream, because I think it’s his nightmare!
LS @ 29
Since when does everyone demand immunity. Subpoena her and if she won’t talk, prosecute her! It’s time to make an example of these people.
Is anyone mining the DOJ or the WH staff for someone patriotic enough to spill the beans. Good grief, surely there is ONE person with a conscience somewhere that knows the score about what these crooks have done.
Reminder, pups: Bob Woodward’s WaPo online chat starts at 3pm eastern. Questions accepted anytime. I don’t know if he’ll answer Armitage/Plame questions, but it might be worth a try.
It’s the anniversary of his and Bernstein’s original WaPo story.
Vid & blog write up of Adam Schiff, former AUSA, questioning Gonzales on May 10:
Congressman Schiff’s Blog
OT New Froomkin Lede is Abu Ghraib reports.
More advice from Dahlia:
Christy,
Don’t we have enough of the “preponderance of the evidence” to issue Impeach articles?
Do we have to have a video tape of Bush and Rove hijacking the country?
Did anyone see this, it is about the American whistleblower on ammunitions caches in Iraq, who was taken prisoner by the U.S. after telling the FBI about it – Gonzo must have been involved in this:
http://www.alternet.org/story/50191/
Biodun @ 69
Similar to the Time Warp but not as catchy a tune…
sonate @ 46
Sonate, I’ve thought along these lines for a while as well. The other advantage is that it shuts up those in the Senate who complained that the no-confidence vote was meaningless. A conviction vote is certainly not that. This way they need to either vote him up or down and go on record as condoning his activities or not.
The down sides as I see them are:
1) Starting impeachment hearings too early may cause some people to dig in their heals when, if there was more dirt on the table when things started, they might be moved.
2) Gonzo shouldn’t be the target, it should be Shrub and Shooter. let’s get on to the real business.
So I’m not sure where I come down. To some extent I feel like I’m trying to be too subtle. He broke the law and should pay the consequences and if we keep it as simple as that the answer is: Impeach now!
Just wanna note that when the next administration tries to clean out all the civil service appointments that were in fact political, the republicans are going to claim that the administration is playing politics with appointments and stacking the departments with ideologues. As digby pointed out recently:
xargaw @ 67
I’m with you on immunity for these perps. We have to guard against an Oliver-Northesque slipping away from justice.
TeddySanFran @ 62:
Except that in 1974, a Republican President was sworn into the White House.
Sojourner @ 18
And every career appointment made at any time during the Bush presidency should be carefully reviewed. If irregularities are found (e.g., evidence that appointee was not competitively competent), those appointees should be asked to resign. Can congress impeach career employees?
your mistake is imagining that there was EVER any difference between the political and the policy ‘wiings’ of the regime…
there NEVER was…and the political aims were stark: to remove, if possible, but at least to undermine and disable, any and every institution and instrument by which the People could resist their expropriation fom the tools and means of effective self-government. They ALWAYS meant to follow Grover Norquist’s injunction to redue Govt to a size at which it could be drowned in a bathtub–thereby turning effective control over to the CorpoRats…
and you’re dreaming if you think the Dims are gonna–or even wanna-fix it…
.
TimE @ 19
might I suggest you read Susan Ralston’s deposition and think “shadow government?” tipping point is approaching.
How many smoking guns does it take to impeach a
Prez?
TiredFed—
Explain about shadow government please?
Elliott @ 77
But Ralston is a lowling perp. If she’ll cough up the info on the big fish, give her the immunity, and let’s get these guys. She’s no Oliver North.
I’m fed up. Did I ever ask myself what the front runners of my party for the nomination for prez were doing AND saying while all this was going down? I mean this chicanery goes back to Florida 2000. This is not exactly new news.
The only thing in life that saves me is
baseball……
This is a fact:
No administration, no matter the party, has EVER been more ‘transparent’ than the one it replaced. Never happened; nagahapun…
the next administration/regime, no matter the party, will strive mightily to preserve the (self) protections the previous one was successful in imposing, and will seek to impose NEW ones…
the dems will fight to keep raygun’s and b41’s papers confidential because that way they will also keep the Clenis’ papers confidential.
this will be all the more important, and more likely, if Her Royal Clintoris is ‘elected.’
the interests of the “national security state” will require ever more stringent and draconian regulations of the data of which ‘history’ is composed…
.
LS @ 83
LOL:
“I knew Oliver North, Oliver North was a big time crook, and YOU Ms. Ralston are no Oliver North”
We’re here at TBA watching Max Blumenthal’s CPAC adventures with Michelle Malkin.
Too funny.
sonate @ 33
he has to piss off 17 Republicans. then he’s finished. I’m thinking the Dems need to uncover as many instances as possible of Gonzo flipping the entire Senate the bird – like when he appointed that U.S. Attorney days before Bush signed the revision to the Patriot Act. Dems won’t put impeachment on the table until they are sure they have the votes. too bad. the investigation itself would generate more votes. and please, Dems, more depositions (1 hour questioning by each side) and fewer hearings with the asinine 5-minute rule.
Firedog Alfred Kelgaries had a very interesting comment last night… worth mention here, imo.
wgg: rogue scholar @ 86
Are you saying Carter was less transparent than Nixon/Ford? I find that hard to believe.
Bay State Librul @ 82
no smoking gun required…
but ya gotta have a cum-stained dress…
absent that, there’s no case…
.
sonate @ 46
If he runs out the clock, does that mean the investigations are over? If they continue beyond January of 2009, Bush can offer no pardons.
Bush, with Democratic approval, has been packing the Supreme Court and the Federal Courts for over seven years. The deed is done.
OT–
From AP:
realworld @ 92
go back and look…
The difference between Carter and Bush? Carter was, and remains, honest.
LS @ 84
If there’s no other way, ’cause I sure can’t argue with you that getting the big guys is what’s most important.
Eureka Springs @ 91
And Ed Gillespie came back to help with the daily housekeeping at the WH just out of the goodness of his heart….
It’s difficult to understand Democratic aversion to going after Rove. Is it intimidation? Fear? What?
things come undone @ 53
hmmm. interesting point. from my list of questions re: DOJ Documents, March 13, 2007, Part 3, page 130 (Question #18 – my number)
18. January 8, 2007 email from Kyle Sampson to Monica Goodling and Leslie Fahrenkopf (WH) re: Senator Domenici recommendations.
Money Quote: original email sent from Steve Bell of Senator Domenici’s staff to Karl Rove (@georgewbush.com). Funny how he knows to send email to Karl’s political address. Wonder who else knows.
This administration has set off the judicial equivalent of a dirty bomb.
Every prosecution of a political figure, of either party,
will be tainted by the suspicion of partisan motives.
For a generation.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 101
Maybe their strategy is “containment”. If they invade, and occupy, they might end up in a quagmire. Selective take-outs while containing may be what they’re thinking.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 101
My personal “tin-foiler” is that domestic spying began shortly day after the 2001 inauguration and yes……Karl has the goods on lots and lots of folks, Goopers and Dems both.
This may have already been discussed, but isn’t it possible to do some serious mining in hard drives for data that has been deleted?
All these missing emails. And to think what the Democrats did with just 18 1/2 minutes of missing tape. So many years ago. Light years away in terms of courage.
TiredFed @ 102
Yeah!!! How did Domenici’s staff know about that? Take them all down!!!
Any chance Dems operate with DNC email accounts???
allan_in_upstate @ 102
Defense attorneys who don’t use this “gift” will be derelict in their duty. The federal prosecutorial bar is, effectively, ruined by the Gonzoids. Heckuva job, Abu.
allan_in_upstate @ 101
This is of a piece with lots of other outrages by the administration. The people who run this government fundamentally disagree with the notion that government can work and can be used for good. They were elected by people that think that government is the problem.
From Katrina to the USA purge, the consequences are all intended – make people doubt the usefulness of government, and elect the people who will promise to rid us of said government.
spurious @ 79
no. sorry , but Congress can only impeach civil officers, positions in which the Senate has provided advice and consent. but dont you worry, we know who the folks are who have burrowed in. if one day competence rules again, they will be gone.
TeddySanFran @ 109
Corruption and incompetence, it’s not a bug, it’s a feature!
I have my doubts that rove has any strong convictions whether it is religion or politcal ideology. I think what drives him is the game. Outsmarting others & winning is what excites him. I’m not an analyst but he doesn’t smell right to me as a “true believer”.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 107
There is a difference in that it was proven that the 18 1/2 minutes were deliberately erased. It was only at that point that both parties agreed that Nixon had to go. We need an equivalent smoking gun. Unless someone who really knows what happened (was there, has notes, etc) turns and fesses up, I still think that gun will be the one that started the Iraq war.
allan_in_upstate @ 103
It already is. It started with Robert Bork and the payback has been consistent and merciless. It didn’t start, nor will it end, with George W. Bush.
egregious @ 83
I read the Ralston deposition transcript. They went over a long list of people in the WH with RNC email accounts. I could only imagine they used these extensively to manage the true efforts of the government, all behind the scenes and without oversight (or so they thought).
Well then Democrats. Call for a Special Prosecutor to investigate the DOJ. This is not astro-physics. Geesh!
ironranger @ 114
I agree with you completely.
LS @ 117
Ditto.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 38
But Christy, Clinton went down on the record as a president sho was impeached. Whether or not we get enough votes to convict, shouldn’t Bush be at least impeached, for our own self-respect?
Bushism:
LS @ 84
right. she was Rove’s secretary. what she can tell about what went on behind closed doors is crucial. they met EVERY DAY (sorry to yell). this is how Congress (preferably SJC) needs to approach Monica, as well.
LS @ 109
Dems and staffers are not currently controlled by the Presidential Records Act as the Rethugs in quesiton are. No requirements for them to maintain any and all records.
But I also have to believe that when Dems ARE once again in that postion, they will be far more circumspect in the use of unofficial resosurces like DNC related servers. Dems may push the letter of the law in many instances but in general do not leap over the line with both feet. And yes, I recognize that there are Dems who do jump over the line, just not as gratuitously as KKKarl and Co.
I think evryone who participates/comments on this blog, who has a legal background, should be up-front and honest about what it would actually take to impeach and convict Shrub.
If Shrub were actually impeached and stood even the slightest chance he would be convicted, he would resign.
Additionally, he will never face criminal prosecution for anything he has done in office – period. This happening would required the Court to do something it has never done in our history and with it’s current membership, will not do.
However, Cheney and Gonzo are a different story. We may be able to actually force these two to face justice and Shrub would either have to line-up with them or throw them under the bus. In either case it would weaken him enough to at least get impeachment articles. But, forget about Shrub getting his come-uppence, in this life-time, this is the price we pay and the risk we take when we elect presidents (even with less than a majority of the vote). Focus on more seats in congress and getting rid of Cheney and Gonzo.
LS @ 107
If I’m not mistaken, Clinton used a similar system in order to keep political work seperate from policy work. Bush and Rove then perverted that system to do all but the most benign work on the RNC/political e-mail system.
I’d be willing to bet that many Dems have a similar system set up.
Finally, the Washington Post has the RNC email story (Froomkin mentions it as well).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..eheadlines
realworld @ 92
I can assure you the Clinton Administration was far more transparent (at times to their detriment) than GHWBush.
realworld @ 115
So there was no provable ‘intent’ to destroy all those emails? And if so no way to assume PC? How about an appointment of a Special Prosecutor to look into the matter? Pronto.
dakine01 @ 123
Recall that during the drug out Clinton investigations the DNC emails were subpoened multiple times and nothing was found
spurious at 120 — What is your goal: instant gratification, or long-term correction of the problem? I think that is the question that has to be answered. Ineffective, non-vote for impeachment that gets a history blip — or real oversight, getting all the facts on record so that the problems can be corrected for the long term, plus the ability to get a true majority — a veto-proof one — in the next election cycle and potentially the White House to reverse this damage for the long haul.
I don’t know the answer as to which is better, but those are certainly the two arguments that I’ve heard from both sides. Personally, I’d like to see real reversal of the damage AND some real accountability. But it cannot be half-assed, piecemeal crap — it has to be soldly done, with all of the evidence on the table at once. And, at the moment, sad to say — but what I’ve seen thus far has been a bit spotty on the preparedness end of things from a whole lot of Dems in charge of committees.
LS & DrDick: nice to know I’m not alone in my opinion. He reminds of similar smartasses I’ve known in high school & college.
BREAKING:
ABC news reporting that the White House is being evacuated. Bomb-sniffing dog detected a “suspicious” parked car. Press asked to leave.
No link, no joke.
If all these emails were destroyed, and it appears this email destruction has been established, then what was the motive for the destruction?
ironranger @ 130
I think he is in some ways a natural conservative (i.e., he really does embrace notions of elite privilege), but is fundamentally driven by the lust for power and the thrill of scoring on his opponents (the two are linked). He is VERY Machiavellian.
allan_in_upstate @ 103
exactly right. kinda like job security. this will work in their favor under a Dem admin, since they can complain that any charges are political and under Repub admin, who’s gonna even look? Comey was right, that genie ain’t going back in easily.
Has anyone ever seen the movie “Election”? In it, there is a female character (Witherspoon) with the political ruthlessness of Rove. She pulls down rivals posters for their election, bags them up, and throws them in a dumpster at an electric company in the middle of the night…however, someone sees her do it. Problem is, the person who saw her dump the evidence, has their own problems and confesses to the crime; thereby freeing the Rovette, who goes on in the future to working her way up into politics in D.C., after leaving a trail of devastation behind…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 131
You may be too kind.
Waxman is doing OK, but ….
hmmmm… ok IMPEACH NOW!!!! ;o) – thats my comment – enough with the stalling -get with it dems in control…
Biodun @ 78
Don’t know if anyone else caught this. Richard Nixon was elected in 1968, re-elected in 1972. No president was sworn in in 1974. He resigned in 1975.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 134
Mistakes were made.
Q But the administration had encouraged the elections, and now what you’ve got is an emergency government forming. How is this —
MR. SNOW: Well, you have an emergency government because a government that elected itself on a non-corruption pledge now seems to be having moved in a different direction.
The above from today’s press conference. Perhaps Mr. Snow might review his statement as it applies to his own party’s current government.
Mack at 138 — I was being kind. And Leahy and Co. at the SJC have done a great job in preparation at a lot of hearings as well. But that isn’t nearly enough…
ironranger @ 131
I’m gonna guess your list easily could balloon to include virtually everyone on this thread. It’s just that the rest of us are afraid we’ll break the servers during a good discussion. fwiw, since i poked my head up already, please count me in also ;->
1,552 DAYZ ND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:
The corruption and dismantling of every single institution of constitutional government by the fascists is complete. The result is that even the IDEA of a democratic system of government is endanger. Any confidence that a majority of people may have had in ANYTHING that government does at any level has been poisoned. Like the prejudice of most southerners against the federals and any federal action, especially taxation, most people today are going to be predisposed to reject the legitimacy of ANY federal or state action that effects their lives. This is leveraged with the last 25 years of repetition of the theme that “government is the problem”.
This is the end…the anarchy that awaits us is the goal of the oligarchy and their political high command. Unless the Democrats can regain the confidence of a majority of voters on the issue of the war in Iraq, we are doomed to a political and economic anarchy that will make the fall of Rome look like the Renaissance.
Looking at things from this point of view, the dialogue between Brian the Shill York and Katie Sandpaper Pubes O’Beirne can be seen as a conversation the oligarchy is having with itself…indeed, most of what passes for information and analysis thru the corporate media is simple that, conversation or instructions from the oligarchy to it’s minions.
I repeat, the corruption of every aspect of our political and economic life is so extensive that any hope that some justice is forthcoming is nothing short of a dream of Xanadu by an addict with a well-stocked pipe.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…WE’RE GUNNA HAFTA TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER!!
tommy yum @ 133
Someone ought to watch all the doors to see if large boxes of files or computers are being evacuated ;>
LS @ 57
Amen.
LS @ 146
That comment is filed under “Live and Learn!”
Nixon resigned in August 1974.
SeamusD @ 140
Wrong! Wikipedia (and lots of our memories):
Sy Hersh coming up on CNN……no indication of how soon.
retirin’ in five @ 149
My bad.
Who bets that Fawn Ralston Hall, might have hinted that she’d reveal some “shredding” that might have gone on, if given immunity…..??????
retirin’ in five @ 149
yup. been there, done that. hope to do it again. but remember, IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST!
SeamusD @ 152
No prob. Helps to be ’senior’. It was an afternoon on the weekend, and I proudly put on my ‘McGovern’ T-shirt and went out for a spin on my ten-speed.
TiredFed @ 90
I have asked this before and haven’t gotten any feedback. Hasn’t Gonzales committed offenses for which he can be disbarred? It would seem that would be an easier and more efficient way to get rid of him.
retirin’ in five @ 155
I think there was a CSNY concert that day at the Meadowlands, if I remember correctly, where they stopped to announce it. I might be thinking about the announcement of the end of the war…
Also, just wanted to say this was my attempt at delurking, so thanks for the comments Christy and everyone.
LS @ 104
That would be based on the assumption that the Democrats have a well thought out strategy. If this is the case, it would be the first time. I have never been so disappointed by lack of collective will, reasoning, strategy, or political savy….ever! Why can’t these guys get it together?
I am not a lawyer, but somewhere, I remember reading that as a defense lawyer you could not accuse the government of lying, because the presumption was, that the government had no reason to lie. This, I believe, is actually codified (though I don’t know where). It would seem to me, anyway, that this government has proven that it has every reason to lie, in many instances, and that that particular precept is now, or should be, out the window. And that should apply to everything from planting evidence to presenting “call records” that are not sworn to under oath by the company keeping said records.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 38
This is a key point. A major difference is that back with Nixon, Republicans with ethics actually still existed. They are now extinct. We must have Republicans joining in the effort. I can’t see it working without them.
xargaw @ 156
I have asked this before and haven’t gotten any feedback. Hasn’t Gonzales committed offenses for which he can be disbarred? It would seem that would be an easier and more efficient way to get rid of him.
interesting idea. how long did it take for the powers that be to disbar Nifong? a few days? Also, AG must be a lawyer (or so I’ve heard). Does he have to be licensed in DC? Libby got disbarred pretty quickly, as I recall. Any lawyers out there know how this might work?
xargaw 159,
I believe they do have a strategy. I would love to see a knock down drag out, throw the bums out, scenario; but in reality they may need an aikido approach in order for it not to backfire. The oversight has been slow and steady and they are getting somewhere. It takes time and the damage is so extensive and convoluted. I’m just worried that they will act too softly and too slowly, and we’ll end up attacking Iran and Syria. I hope what Alfred K. said is correct.
Christy, you will be happy to know you are being referenced on Think Progress on this: Think Progress on Missing Emails
Christy Hardin Smith @ 131
Definitely long-term correction of the problem, and I know that wearing away petrified mud takes a lot of drips. I was just thinking that in lieu of nothing (given Rove’s apparently continued control of repub members of congress and the tainted judiciary) at least impeachment itself might be better than nothing. But you’re right, I guess we have to continue to be optimistic.
mattsmom @ 127
This article basically says that Waxman has nothing and has been asking unsuccessfully for two months. Now, after a supeona, the RNC wants to give the stuff to the WH first. IANAL, but that hardly seems like a legal response to a supeona. Can someone explain this. Isn’t this illegal?
SeamusD @ 140
[Raises hand]
OT.. Romney on Wolf’s show, Libby was entrapped. Prosecutor knew at the outset there was no crime, entrapped Libby as part of a political vendetta.
Are these people so stupid as to believe this BS, or are they pandering to the wingnuts?
randiego @ 167
Sorry, Nixon resigned 8 August 1974, it became effective 9 August 1974, and Gerald Ford became president choosing Nelson Rockefeller as his vice president, poor old unelectable Nelson.
That administration had Dick Cheney as White House Chief of Staff and Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense, therefore, a GOP administration, with Cheney and Rumsfeld in high positions, presided over the debacle that was the evacuation of Saigon.
Should we have expected anything different this time around?
yellowdogD @ 168
A republican prosecuter appointed by a republican AG out for a political vendetta to make the GOP look bad. What is wrong with this argument?
TimE @ 158
welcome, TimE
I see that the prosecutor in the Duke LaCrosse case has been disbarred for his misconduct in that case and will probably now be facing civil suits fron the three guys he charged with rape. So my question is…….when do the Bushie federal prosecutors face disbarrment and civil suits from the the cases that they prosecuted for totally political reasons. I’m thinking about the “corruption” case in Wisconsin in which a GOP fed prosecuted brought absurd corruption charges against a staff person who worked for the Democratic governor. The woman ended up being sent to prison for four months before a disgusted appeals court threw the whole thing out…..anyhow, when does that prosecutor get disbarred?
NorskeFlamethrower @ 145
Natural Selection Corporate Treason and “Executive Oil”
1) “Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.”
2) “The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.”
3) “I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”
4) “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”
4) “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government”
5) “But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security”
Quotes from Daddy T. J. which are as relevent today as they were then. When the body bags start coming home in the thousands America will stir. That is why a path to legal immigration is desired so much for the corporate interests and now the military. Come to America, join the fight for oil and if you live, you can get a job at McDonals, Burger King or a gas station at minimum wage. I quess it is better than being in Mexico!!!!!!
Natural Selection Corporate Treason and “Executive Oil”
WE HAVE OPTIONS NOW DON’T WE!!!!!!
Midwest Meg @ 172
Nifong’s Bush Commonality
The disbarment of Mike Nifong for “intentional prosecutorial misconduct” when evidence failed to support the claims of the alleged victim is reminiscent of another recent event in America’s history. America’s war against a terrorist network was morphed into a war to secure a future energy source for America addiction to oil, guaranteeing corporate oil’s continued hold on the present energy delivery system, and profits…………
Saddam was a brutal evil man, who maintained power by way of American and British governments at the behest of oil interests, until 1972. In a ten-year war of attrition against Iran, Saddam murdered millions of Iraqis and Iranians at the behest of the West using Iraq and Saddam as a tool to contain the Iranians who kicked most western oil interest out of Iran.
To realize corporate oil’s goal the Bush administration also known as ‘Executive Oil” intentionally misrepresented the threat Saddam posed to America and usefully duped many Americans into the moral certainty of the Iraq invasion and overthrow of Saddam based on intelligence unsupported by fact and evidence, just like Nifong??????????????????????????????
Nifong is liable for his conduct, which destroyed the lives and reputations of young men in addition to costly legal expenses. He is being held accountable for his actions and misrepresentations. To date no one has died as a result of Mike Nifong’s “intentional prosecutorial misconduct.”
On the other hand BUSH/CHENEY et als, enabled by congress has committed the act of intentional fabrication of evidence as justification in the persecution of the Iraq War to secure the future profits of corporate oil and it bedfellows. Not only has the Bush administration usurped the rule of law in protecting the interests of Corporate Oil; they have further destroyed America’s moral authority in the world and killed hundreds of thousands of people to protect America from Terrorist or Corporate oil interests???
There is no difference between a prosecutor who commits “intentional prosecutorial misconduct” and an administration that fabricates intelligence, outs a covert agent in a retaliatory strike and initiates a war on false and misleading statements. Any person of minimal intelligence who fails to see a correlation is blinded by the servile prejudice of self-interest, which translates into affordable energy. Or maybe you just donot care!!!
Nifong’s disbarment should be followed by a Bush/Cheney impeachment and convictions on a high crime. The intentional misrepresentation of fact and evidence concerning Iraq pre war intelligence and the subsequent manslaughter and murder of Americans and Iraqi’s predicated on a lie, misleading intelligence. The same type of lies and omissions Mike Nifong committed and is now being held accountable for. America’s failure to accept this reality to date is not uncommon. It is defense mechanism/dysfunction experienced by millions of drug addicted people daily. It is called denial. Denial is usually overcome when the deleterious effects of misguided or intentionally manipulated unwarranted actions become obvious, as evidenced by Nifong’s bush commonality
[Mod Note; edited to reduce extras question marks and avoid page formatting issues.]
James Joyce,
Well said.. and the other difference is that they are international war criminals!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 129
Why waste time on this shit……… Go for the enchalada baby. Appoint a SP to investigate the stovepiping of intel leading up to the Iraq War, then compel Colin Powell to testify or put him in jail with “IBBY DIBBY” It was Powell’s presentation before the UN that was most convincing and he resigned ex pos facto for he new it was wrong from the start. Powell will bring these corrupt bastards down for I believe his loyalty is to the Constitution, not the manipulative creeps who eat their own to protect the interests of Executive Oil……………………..
Eureka Springs @ 175
Thanks……
behindthefall @ 11
Hi, I am not Christy but I lived in West Virginia for twelve years in the middle of the state, Buckhannon, WV. It was the best place I have ever lived and remains much as it was at that time. The eastern panhandle has not remained as it was. It is now a bedroom community for DC and more expensive and over developed.
Buckhannon has Wesleyan College so has an intellectual community. There is a natural foods store where one can order in bulk, Molly’s Pantry owned by a psychologist. The town is small and well placed. It is also 75 miles from Morgantown where the University of West Virginia is located. There is a thriving community of artists and alternative folks. I will be there in about a week to celebrate my birthday and retirement. Barbara
Knut Wicksell @ 20
Deleting the e-mails violates the Presidential Records Act. I don’t believe the act provides criminal penalties. It passed in those halcyon days when presidents, rightly or wrongly, were presumed to be law abiding.
We must forget proving scandal and impeach the SOB’s for this unquestionable violation of law, much like the feds got Al Capone for tax evasion. If we get them, it doesn’t matter we used a lesser charge.
I might add, those who are concerned that a conflict between the Executive and Congress will end up in the Supreme Court have reason to worry, not because the new Court lineup will side with the Executive, (it probably will) but because it would mean Congress abdicated its power (impeachment) attempting to avoid confrontation. That is the road to ruin. Besides it takes so long to get anything heard by that Court, you can die several times while you wait.