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The Dallas Morning News has a bit of a tutorial, in the form of an editorial, regarding why pardoning Scooter Libby would be wrong. I thought it made a nice, succinct walk-through of the issues for the Libby-impaired. To wit:
…Judge Walton ruled late last week that Mr. Libby must report to prison while appealing his conviction. This is just. As the judge wrote, “I just think blue-collar criminals are entitled to the same kind of justice as white-collar criminals.”
Precisely. Mr. Libby may well be a fine fellow, but even fine fellows can break the law. When President Bill Clinton lied under oath, conservatives were quick to point out that the integrity of our entire system of justice depends on witnesses telling the truth. Though many on the right believe the Plame inquiry was groundless, one doesn’t have the right to perjure oneself with impunity because one believes the investigation to be illegitimate. (emphasis mine)
Equal treatment under the law — good stuff. No right to perjure yourself just because you feel like it? Check. Fairly simple, straightforward, easily comprehensible, common sense stuff, right?
So, why is it that time and time again, Tim Russert ignores this issue altogether and instead talks about political cover for potential pardon maneuvers for the Bush Administration?
And, while we’re asking simple questions with obvious answers, why is it that Kate O’Beirne was given the lion’s share of the speaking opportunity on yesterday’s Meet the Press regarding the Novak op-ed and never once asked about her close personal ties to Novak as his opus dei conversion godmother, among other very close personal friendship ties? Hmmmm? Is it me, or aren’t these sorts of close, personal relationships relevent in terms of assessing potential personal bias in “reporting” when one is asked to give an “opinion” as to the veracity and theoretical musings of another “reporter”?
And they wonder why we question the journalistic integrity and commitment to the truth of the cocktail weenie set…
(Photo by Ron Edmonds/AP via Newsweek/MSNBC.)
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Dhristy!
Oops, I mean Christy!! :~)
le troisieme!
Walk the line, Scoots
spurious:
DC: Washington
CD: Criminal Division
I don’t think anyone’s ever accused Kate O’Beirne or Robert Novak of being reporters.
Hi Christy and firepups!
Bushco: Rule with impunity.
PS: really loving the fact that this editorial came from Texas…
Lordy. Timmeh has let himself be bought. Very disappointing.
As they say in the hardcore perp walk, “If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.”
Biodun @ 5
Ooops!?
Mr. Byron York has also given up somewhat. From Meet the Press:
Spotlight!
opus dei conversion godmother has a nice ring to it Christy!
We need to hammer the point over and over and over — Scooter Libby was convicted of OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, and sentenced to 30 months in prison.
He was also convicted of lying and purjury, with the (shorter) sentences to be served concurrently.
The wingnut screeching harpies and squawking heads talk about runaway prosecutors, because of the absence of indictments on the underlying crime. We need to remind everyone that OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE is a very serious crime, in and of itself.
Scooter Libby was convicted of lying, purjury, and OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
Sooner or later, people may ask what it was that poor lil’ Scooter was obstructing . . .
Hey Christy, I just backed up to read “Violations”. I had read the New Yorker article and it turned my stomach. We really need to keep this in the public eye and hold our govt accountable. For our own safety and credibility in the international community.
Thank you again for your fine work, esp. when it is most unpalatable and unimaginable that this particular topic should come to the fore.
Elliott @ 13
DANG! Ya beat me!?!
- d’oh! WHAT Elliot SAID – NOW!
Rinse. Repeat!
& don’t forget those congresscritters(!?!?!)
Frank Rich’s piece on the op-ed page of yesterday’s NY Times was right on!!
______________________________________
The New York Times
Sunday, June 17, 2007
“Scooter’s Sopranos Go to the Mattresses”
Frank Rich
As a weary nation awaited the fade-out of “The Sopranos” last Sunday, the widow of the actual Mafia don John Gotti visited his tomb in Queens to observe the fifth anniversary of his death. Victoria Gotti was not pleased to find reporters lying in wait.
“It’s disgusting that people are still obsessed with Gotti and the mob,” she told The Daily News. “They should be obsessed with that mob in Washington. They have 3,000 deaths on their hands.” She demanded to know if the president and vice president have relatives on the front lines. “Every time I watch the news and I hear of another death,” she said, “it sickens me.”
Far be it from me to cross any member of the Gotti family, but there’s nothing wrong with being obsessed with both mobs. Now that the approval rating for the entire Washington franchise, the president and Congress alike, has plummeted into the 20s, we need any distraction we can get; the Mafia is a welcome nostalgic escape from a gridlocked government at home and epic violence abroad.
But unlikely moral arbiter that Mrs. Gotti may be, she does have a point. As the Iraq war careens toward a denouement as black, unresolved and terrifying as David Chase’s inspired “Sopranos” finale, the mob in the capital deserves at least equal attention. John Gotti, the last don, is dead. Mr. Chase’s series is over. But the deaths on the nightly news are coming as fast as ever.
True, the Washington mob isn’t as sexy as the Gotti or Soprano clans, but there is now a gripping nonfiction dramatization of its machinations available gratis on the Internet, no HBO subscription required. For this we can thank U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton, who presided over the Scooter Libby trial. Judge Walton’s greatest move was not the 30-month sentence he gave Mr. Libby, a fall guy for higher-ups (and certain to be pardoned to protect their secrets). It was instead the judge’s decision to make public the testimonials written to the court by members of the Washington establishment pleading that a criminal convicted on four felony counts be set free.
Mr. Libby’s lawyers argued that these letters should remain locked away on the hilarious grounds that they might be “discussed, even mocked, by bloggers.” And apparently many of the correspondents assumed that their missives would remain private, just like all other documents pertaining to Mr. Libby’s former boss, Dick Cheney. The result is very little self-censorship among the authors and an epistolary gold mine for readers.
Among those contributing to the 373 pages of what thesmokinggun.com calls “Scooter Libby Love Letters” are self-identified liberals and Democrats, a few journalists (including a contributing writer to The New York Times Magazine) and a goodly sample of those who presided over the Iraq catastrophe or cheered it on. This is a documentary snapshot of the elite Washington mob of our time.
(snip)
read the rest
http://minor-ripper.blogspot.com/
2007/06/frank-rich-scooters-sopranos-go-to.html
Tim Russert, NBC’s Washington Bureau chief, soils everything he touches. He believes that as long as you report–or even misreport–the process but avoid reporting on the issues, you are immune from questions regarding your objectivity.
Is it possible that Russert was even more involved in the Administration’s machinations than was revealed at Scooter’s trial? Does he feel somehow responsible (i.e., vulnerable) with Scooter left holding the bag?
If you haven’t read the New Yorker article I would highly recommend it.
Outrage overload….
How much of the Russert dodge and spin do we have to put up with? It’s time for Russert to go. If the right wing can bring down Dan Rather it’s time for the left to return the favor. Russert should be forced to retire to luxuriate in wealthy idle on Nantucket or whatever wealthy enclave he resides. At the very least it’s time for people to stand outside the window of the Today Show blasting Russert and his form of phony “journalism.”
If you’re looking for journalistic integrity, Kate O’Beirne is the absolute wrong direction. Tim Russert lets her go on and on because he agrees with her. She’s part of what I like to refer to as the Irish mafia media whose numbers are strong and growing. These Catholics mentioned (Russert, Novak, O’Beirne) seem to very easily reconcile their venom and distortions with their ‘religious’ beliefs. Isn’t it funny, that every time I think of Scooter Libby, I think of Tim Russert. Associations.
As I and others have wondeered many times before, WHEN are Tweety, Mr Punkinhaid and the rest of the corporate owned media going to confront Ol’ 60 Grit on her husband’s complicity in the mess called Iraq. Instead they let her come on air and spout all of her gibberish and NO one ever calls BullSh*t on her a**!
OK, if you will pardon the somewhat blurring of two posts, torture plus treason, this jumped out at me during my bedtime reading of Ghost Plane by Stephen Grey.
In his investigations, Grey found plenty of public information about the flight patterns of CIA planes used for renditions. He published it in summer of 2005. The House Republican Party committee leader at the time, Phil Brennan, wrote an editorial entitled “Let’s Dare Call it Treason”. The CIA knew about Grey’s article and shrugged saying, it’s really hard to hide a fleet of planes.
This all went down when the Plame affair, leaking classified information about covert agents by government officials, was burning brightly.
So there’s our government. Accountability is “treason”.
And real treason is “victimhood”.
Raw Story has a headline that the GOP is considering serving a subpoena to Valerie Plame. No details, story developing.
U.S. attorneys fallout seeps into courts
Defense lawyers in different cases are raising new questions about government prosecutors and potential political biases.
http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..ome-center
The Jewish angle:
For all sorts of curious and debatable reasons, the fact that Libby is Jewish has been underplayed in the Libby narrative:
[Mod: Let’s be a little careful where we take this angle.]
The sad fact is, Libby won’t go to prison AND Bush won’t have to pardon him until his last day in office. The preznit has “respite” power — ie. he can give Libby “respite” from serving his sentence until all his appeals have been exhausted, which should be right around January 19, 2009. Look for Bush to quietly give Libby “respite” in a few weeks, just before he has to report to prison. The MSM will give it ten seconds on the evening news and that will be that.
This whole Libby-as-victim movement is quite incredible. I don’t know how his defenders can keep a straight face as they present their case.
Last weekend’s episode of McLaughlin Group had a guest NeoCon sitting-in for Blankley (Podherz? or something, from the NYT). He made no bones about it…Armitage committed the crime, Libby got railroaded. He followed with some schtick about wishing his career could be ruined like Valerie Plame’s, who signed book & movie deals after her outing. Nobody challenged his statements.
Guess committing the crime is now taken as S.O.P., and righteous indignation at being caught supplants any contrition.
Yep. Every once in awhile, my newspaper gets it right. The DMN is still a very conservative oriented paper. It’s part of the Belo Corp. conglomerate. For the DMN to come out with this editorial means that the Libby matter has struck a raw nerve amongst many otherwise “silent” R teamers.
You just don’t lie to cops and grand juries. If you don’t want to say anything, plead the 5th and shut up. But don’t run your mouth and lie.
Ghostman
Bluetoe @ 25
Wouldn’t that be like kicking a hornet’s nest?
Sometimes I think that Little Boots should pardon Libby, that fine upstanding hard-working family man who was Shooter’s protege, thus opening up the latter to forced testimony under immunity & under oath. Then would come the fun, of asking the traitor-at-second-hand (Libbykins) who actually committed treason-at-first-hand. However, then in my calmer moments, I realize that Libby would just continue to “not remember,” lie under oath and thus hopefully go back into the pokey for yet more time, upon imposition of a new sentence for the latter crime.
Therefore I join the folx who hope that the rule of Law be followed and that Libby, after being convicted and, while actually behind bars, will — (like his Aspen-rootmate Judith Miller) — break and actually reveal his source for a deal resulting in a shorter sentence. Wouldn’t that be fun to see! :)
=====
I’m real happy that several ‘Pups are taking part by now. I hope to “see” you there too. There’s even a ‘PupPoll where you can quickly (and anonymously) cast your vote about possible future FDL formats.
I’ll be repeating this invitation in later comments.
Mr. Gonzales is the symptom. Not the cause. The first order of business is to straighten out the mess that the DOJ has become.
Christy – albeit off topic, this news from ThinkProgress, alluded to in the prior thread, bears mentioning on this thread: Investigation Uncovers ‘Extensive Destruction’ Of RNC Emails, Violations Of Records Act
There’s more…
So, why is it that time and time again, Tim Russert ignores this issue altogether and instead talks about political cover for potential pardon maneuvers for the Bush Administration?
Because that’s what GE pays him to do.
-ck- @ 31
Yes, but that generally seems to be the GOP’s modus operandi these days.
Perhaps we should place the Office of the Attorney General in receivership.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
thanks for the link OK – this story is just getting better & better.
thats what happens when the light of truth is shined unwaveringly at obstruction over a long period of time
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
I think we need to place the entire federal executive in receivership.
-ck- @ 30
ya!
but the GOP hasn’t been on its game lately in the long term thinking department
Bluetoe @ 25
How can they do it, if they’re in the minority? These people have no shame.
The mafia meme is a good one. It might not even be too far from the literal truth.
Where did Bush & Co acquire its fondness for thuggishness?
Biodun @ 27:
Well FWIW I’m of Jewish heritage, never heard before that Libby was, and it makes absolutely no difference to me what his faith is. He should go the slammer instanter as far as I’m concerned.
If anything I am embarrassed for my heritage-mates, just as any minority would feel if “one of their own” was convicted of a crime. Again, I cannot understand those people of Jewish heritage coming to this criminal’s defense simply because they have that in common. Feh!
DrDick @ 35
Clinton did it! Gore did it! Sandy Berger Sandy Berger! Valerie lied to the committee when she said she didn’t send her husband (the talking points used by Davis, Mica, Burton, and Issa to defend Lorna Doon last week)
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 33
originally i was patient & supportive of how lehey & waxman were building cases – but now this story makes me really angry at lehey & waxman for moving so slowly!!
Torture coverup was more extensive than previously disclosed
RNC illegally destroyed 100s of thousands of e-mails
Surge will last a decade
Attorney purge leads to questions on scores of Federal cases
and on and on and on…..
It’s still Monday morning? It is here, at least. Good grief!
Bluetoe @ 25
I hope that is true, ’cause they would live to regret it.
Ghostman @ 30
Went to check out the DaMN *g* Texas editorial before responding and, boy, was that a slow load on dial-up. Your observation is quietly comforting amongst so much MSM garbage spewing. Thanks!
nerfous @ 19
Cathy Martin and Mary Matilin were telling the truth when they said Meet the Press was their mouth piece. Russert is a tool, just as biased by omission as comission. He no longer has credability as a journalist. We have to call him on every issue by contacting NBC and registering our observations when he strays. I stopped watching a while back and now pick up the salient violations Sunday afternoon on the web and then proceed to comment to NBC. I always tell them that I caught the infraction on the web and no longer watch just so they will know they have lost a viewer.
to repeated what others said, Spotlighted!!!!!!
Educated Plaintiff @ 39
Bluetoe @ 25
Why would the Repugs have subpoena power?
Ghostman,
Yes, what finally got through to a very conservative friend of mine was that Libby lied to the FBI. That made her furious.
Bluetoe at 25 — Isn’t that old news from the Davis threat in the GSA/Doan hearing in Waxman’s committee from last week? We liveblogged that in posts and comments, as I recall…unless they are actually going to act on it, in which case, I’d expect a subpoena for Toensing as well. *g*
Christy, TeddySanFran had an interesting idea on this yesterday that bears repeating (hope you don’t mind):
TeddySanFran @ 103
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
It’s time to create a court just for the morally bankrupt.
I found this very irritating too.
It would be interesting to know the audience trends of the Sunday morning shows. Are they gaining new viewers or are their audiences primarily people like me who got in the habit of watching them years ago when there were not the alternative sources of news like there are today.
I find myself being more selective in whether I watch a show and quicker to turn a political talk show off if it becomes too unbalanced or drifts off into irritating irrelevancies (e.g. the state of the Clinton’s marriage.)
Unless the Russerts of the world change their ways, Sunday talk maybe going the way of the dodo bird. Extinction!
S.O.S. from MA @ 42
Well FWIW I’m of Jewish heritage, never heard before that Libby was, and it makes absolutely no difference to me what his faith is. He should go the slammer instanter as far as I’m concerned.
If anything I am embarrassed for my heritage-mates, just as any minority would feel if “one of their own” was convicted of a crime. Again, I cannot understand those people of Jewish heritage coming to this criminal’s defense simply because they have that in common. Feh!
I’ve been sort of watching for either the angle referred to by Biodun in the now disappeared #27 to appear, or pushback from the far-right elements of the US Jewish community against a perception of bias against Libby in the press or courts because of his heritage. SOS isn’t alone in being unaware of Libby’s heritage. I think the US press has treated this as a non-issue.
The far-right Israeli press, OTOH, has brought up his heritage and Arutz Shiva’s INR talk radio has been yelling LOUDLY about his heritage being the major factor in his “mistreatment.”
Christy Hardin Smith @ 53
Those Goopers are just blowing smoke (as usual).
“It’s not a realistic threat. A majority vote is required for a the committee to issue a subpoena and it is highly unlikely that Rep. Davis will be able to marshal any Democratic votes,” said Melanie Sloan, Executive Director of the DC-based group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. Sloan is representing the Wilsons in a civil lawsuit against Vice President Dick Cheney and other Bush administration officials who are accused of blowing Plame’s cover and violating the Wilsons’ privacy.
OT
Waxman has Susan Ralston’s deposition up.
Here is the link(pdf).
Re: me @ 27:
The Jewish angle was not from me, but from The Jewish Standard, which I linked to.
S.O.S. from MA @ 43:
I had not known that Libby was Jewish myself, and so was surprised to read that.
And Mod:
I wrestled with myself before posting that, but decided to in the interest of disclosure and transparency.
Between seeing (stumbling across) Sy Hersch on CNN Sunday, reading the New Yorker piece, and managing to watch ‘Sicko’ on line last night in its entirety, I’m pretty pissed off. And, then to top off the cake with a double layer of frosted shit, this was IT.
Ed*ard Teller @ 58:
My 27 is still there, with a Mod Note, which I’ve responded to in 61.
Among those contributing to the 373 pages of what thesmokinggun.com calls “Scooter Libby
lol. The first few are like a who’s who from the Bush administration.
Bottom line is though, I don’t ( and apparently Judge Walton doesn’t either ) give a rats ass how nice or patriotic Scooter is. Fond memories, platitudes and talk about how good his service record was doesn’t excuse him from the fact that he broke the law in lying to investigators. These Rule of Law types out there cheerleading for a pardon should realize that they’re setting the precedent that it’s ok to break so long as you’re popular.
What are we in high school or something?
RE: The GOP Tantrum WRT Subpoenaing Plame.
From Raw Story
snip
Yet another WATB way of trying to obfuscate and weasel their way out of legitimate investigations.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0618.html
Oh man, I know that Jane is really busy this week, what with the Take Back America conference, but I really have a hankering for her to ham-and-egg this post with one of her classic, snark-laden posts about Ol’ 60 Grit O’Beirne.
I take it, Christy, you think the OVP or the Libby Defense Fund ponied up for O’Beirne yesterday? I kinda wondered if she was representing two constituencies with somewhat different interests — White House got one part, the OVP got the other two. At least that was my take.
The DMN? Well, law, shut-maahhh-mouth!
undecided @ 42
From the its links through Prescott Bush to the Nazi party and from its association with various dictators over the years in Latin America, notably the Somoza family of Nicaragua, hence all the piss and vinegar when Danny Ortega was elected president and was made to appear as the antichrist, while the real antichrist was getting sober and preparing to destroy the USA.
I recommend Frank Rich’s June 17 oped, kindly rescued by Marion in Savannah http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/ Scroll down to June 17, “Mr Rich”.
Alice @ 47
You’re right
Christy Hardin Smith @ 54
The full story is now on Raw Story. You’re right Christy, it refers to the Doan hearing. Davis is just trying to provide cover and distraction. Hope there is a viable oppostion candidate to run against in 08.
For a peek into the deranged bulb at the top of the spinal cord in Libby Apologists, the Politico is good for some laughs (and/or cries of despair).
Emphasis mine to reflect the bogglization of my mind!!!
A sample of the mentally challenged using words they don’t necessarily understand to describe a universe free of ethics and/or responsibility or accountability from Pressure Mounts For Libby Clemency (via RawStory, why give them guys at Politico a click)
I still think Marty Sheen would be a better CoC than Here’s Freddie – Marty served in Nam with Marlon Brando (and damn near died during his tour (or while shooting on location), Freddie sat behind a desk in Red October – thus Martin = bigger war hero.
Rayne at 66 — It was the weird one-two with her and York yesterday that has had me thinking — a lot — about what was said. And what wasn’t. York kept intimating that the WH had dropped the ball on the fact that Walton was going to send Scooter to jail — but didn’t hint as to why. And I can’t shake the fact that they were so either (a) nonchalant about the whole thing that they didn’t even bother to look into Walton’s “long ball” reputation in terms of criminal sentencing and his strict application of the law in pretty much every case he ever touches and (b) that Libby wasn’t on their radar screens to make that important. Either way, that cannot make Mrs. Libby happy. And it plays very poorly into the “Cheney working hard for a pardon” meme for the Free Scooter minions — because clearly Cheney’s “hard work” added up to a whole lot of no influence if they dropped the ball entirely.
So, was York throwing Cheney under the public bus? Or indicating that Rove was willing to sacrifice Scooter by inaction and neglect? Or was there something else entirely coming out of O’Beirne’s meandering “bump for Libby’s family and friends” comment? The whole thing was weird, from start to finish.
I’m sure that if the committee invited Valerie Plame Wilson to testify, she’d be happy to come. Assuming that the CIA permitted it.
Kudos to what is normally a painfully conservative op-ed page in a conservative newspaper. We need to continue trumpeting common sense like this from all points on the political spectrum.
snowbird42 @ 52
They don’t, not if they’re acting as members of Congress. Only the majority party can do that.
Now, it might be that they’re trying to pimp a bogus pseudo-hearing, or that some sufficiently idiotic backbencher with more cash than sense (Darrell Issa, is that you?) might be trying a civil lawsuit. But Congressional subpoena? Nope.
[Ah, it turns out they’re just doing a bullshit distraction move, and Raw Story got spoofed.]
Biodun @ 63
Again, by and large, the US press has treated Libby’s heritage as a non-issue. I subscribe to The Jewish Daily Forward, and to my knowledge, they’ve been far better on the issue of what Libby did or did not do than MSNBC or the Washington Post, for instance. The oldest Jewish newspaper in the world, London’s Jewish Chronicle, has covered the trial very little.
Bustednuckles @ 65
Listening to Dan Burton for even a few minutes can be hazardous to your health. He’s so whacko that he probably thinks Independence Day is a documentary.
Hugh @ 78
ROTFLMAO
Condi on the Middle East CSPAN 1
Watermelon Dan Burton has no authority to speak about anything, aside from what it’s like to be an effing hypocritical nutbar who in his day boffed anything that couldn’t run away fast enough.
Hugh @ 78
Just. Plain. Funny.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 72
There is, of course, a tin-foil angle. You see, I cannot emphasize enough that the DMN is very, very conservative. But this is also Bush country. NOT Cheney country.
Query: is the DMN editorial a Rovian plant? An effort by the Bush side of the WH to counter the talk shows which are dominated by Libby-lovers? Is Commander Guy, in a subtle way, throwing Libby-Cheney under the bus?
Actually, I rather doubt the theory I just typed. Just thought I’d throw it out there.
Ghostman
One of my favorite clips from Susan Ralston’s deposition:
“I believe he did talk to the Vice President’s Office
15 about it, but I just don’t remember when, wi th whom, the
16 context.
I7 a Why do you believe that he talked with that office
18 about this subject?
lg A I just have a vague recollectìon that he and
20 Scooter Lì bby talked about this subject often.
2I a Often?
22 A Often”
http://oversight.house.gov/doc…..105351.pdf
Hugh @ 78
Or that really good movie with Will Smith
Christy (73) — yeah, they were doing a weird and twisted sort of good-cop-bad-cop thing, York and O’Beirne. Was unsettling to watch, but exposure to the Grit is enough to raise my hackles anyhow.
What I have been wondering is whether this is a sort of elaborate kabuki, wherein the OVP pays for widely disseminated calls for pardon, knowing full well that 1) it is absolutely NOT in his best interest for Libby to be pardoned, since a pardon not only requires an admission of guilt (thanks for the reminder, SP CPA) and waives Libby’s right to plead the Fifth Amendment, and 2) that the White House would also not want to pardon Libby for similar reasons and may already have agreed with OVP that this is not possible.
But in order to keep the neo-con and A*P*C members of the administration and base in line, they push this repeated yet mocking call for pardon, leading to a kind of cognitive dissonance from those of us watching from outside.
Does that make any sense?
“To pursue this the way you’re doing it when you won’t bring Sandy Berger or Valerie Plame before this committee and yet you’ll subpoena the Secretary of State, who’s got a little bit to do around this world. It just doesn’t make sense to me,” Burton said during the Wednesday hearing.
Valerie Plame was a covert agent and Sandy Berger pled guilty and showed remorse!
Repeat this again and again and again until the bozos finally get it.
Christy!
Thanks for a run of fine posts this morning!
Bob in HI
Collectively the GOP does not possess a half functioning brain.
Ghostman — It did seem supremely out of character for the DMN to have this sort of editorial. The only thing that I could think is that the cognitive dissonance of the “screw the rule of law, let’s protect our law-breaking crony at all costs” idiocy finally pissed off the editorial staff beyond the point of remaining silent. I mean, honestly, for the party formerly known as the “law and order” sort, it really is ludicrous to toss all of that out the window for a man convicted of multiple federal felonies by a jury of his peers, and sentenced to jail time by a Republican-appointed federal judge, now isn’t it?
btw, gang, I have another fresh post up and running. It’s been a bit of a busy writing morning…sorry about the overload. *g*
Christy Hardin Smith @ 91
well, we’ll just have to keep up!
Ed*ard Teller @ 77
It’s properly a “non issue” because it’s a question of subjective interpretation, to say the least, as to whether it matters. It would be useful for the press to expose the ties of neoconservatives to the Israeli government, but that’s a separate question.
I think that the Constitution merely precludes a pardon FOR an impeachment. It doesn’t prevent a pardon for a CRIMINAL charge.
Impeachments cannot impose penalties other than removal from office and denial of the benefits (emoulements) of office. Impeachment convictions cannot impose monetary fines nor prison sentences.
I think that what Teddy is trying to do is impose a criminal sentence via impeachment, which is not what the Constitution allows.
What the clause in question does is prevents the President from maintaining someone in office who is convicted through impeachment. In other words, this is the perogative of Congress, and the President cannot “veto” it.
At the same time Congress cannot restrain the power of parole for criminal acts. It COULD require that such paroles are publicized. Or that the President give a public rationale for them, or even have to read a report on the parole/clemency by an independent board. Or even include a notification to the pardoned that because they are not subject to further jeopardy that they may be compelled to testify truthfully about those crimes they were pardoned for.
But Congress can’t constrain that power of clemency itself without a Constitutional Amendment.
One more important point. The President can only parole for crimes “against the United States”. Thus one might be able to argue that state crimes or those where there is another litigant that is wronged are not eligible for pardons or commutation.
And Libby may be required to testify devoid of a 5th Amendment protection if a pardon immunizes him from that charge. Thus if a pardon is unspecific “for crimes related to his involvement in leaks to reporters related to Valerie Plame” then the prosecutor can subpoena him and require that he testify without using the 5th Amendment as he cannot be prosecuted about those issues. The broader the pardon the broader the immunity.
But theoretically additional perjury and obstruction charges could apply. Unless Bush specified that Libby had the power to lie as part of his pardon.
Essentially any pardon also might indicate exactly where crimes were committed…and that this would allow compelling testimony (either to a Grand Jury or to Congress) on just those crimes.
Remember a pardon makes the recipient admit to the listed crime (even if not adjudicated yet) while it voids any punishment. But it also can require an “admission” on the part of the Administration of the factuality of the crime.
If one pardons Libby for “Conspiracy” then it admits conspiracy existed…otherwise why pardon someone for a non-existant action and compel the taint of acceptance.
Imagine if a President pardoned his political opponent for “sodomy with animals” when there was no charge or trial even beckoning. It basically, by pardoning that person, indicates that there was indeed some act…no matter how much the recipient of the pardon may say they don’t want or need the pardon. And yes, the Supreme Court has ruled that one cannot refuse a pardon! Despite the taint that occurs.
Their ONLY DEFENSE is to testify in court or to Congress their innocence while sworn. This places them in a different kind of jeopardy for lying, which also gives them the chance to establish their innocence.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 73
Fred Fielding’s got W isolated from the Libby Lobby. John Dean’s reminder that pardon-chat is impeachable was a virtual memo to former subordinate Fielding: “Watch out!” And Fielding has taken it to heart by completely cutting off the pardon seekers — including Shooter — from his client.
Which means we get to see the Libby Lobby squirm and plead on the only avenues open to them — Tim, FOX, NRO, et al (and there’s uncountable “al”). They are cut off from the only person who can help their friend, and their patron Shooter is cut off too. So they plead and wail in public.
To no avail, imho. Ain’t it ugly? wag, ymmv
cinnamonpape said, among other things:
A few years ago that sentence would have sounded really weird. Today in Bu$hWorld, not so much, it’s just a normal statement anymore like we hear everyday on Faux, Punkin’Head, Tweety, et. al.
snowbird42 @ 52
In addition, why would getting Valerie back up to testify – especially now that her active covert status has been declassified.
Heck, she was still going OUT in the field at the time Novak exposed her status…she could have been abroad in an unfriendly foreign state for all Novak and the WH goons knew! She had travelled abroad “not fewer than 5…and as many as 10 or more times” between January 2002 and mid-July 2003.
Her reappearing before a Congressional Committee will re-open the festering sore and expose further lies that Robert’s staff shilled off on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Why would the Reps want to do more damage to their reputations?
Remember too, that this would allow the Committee to revisit the testimony of others by the DEMOCRATS!
Ghostman @ 83
Some sources say that Rice/Bush are in a life and death struggle with OVP over how to deal with Iran. So I’ve been wondering if Libby in prison gives them a bit of leverage.
The RePugs very clearly do not have subpoena power, only p.i.a. power. But why they would want to reopen the running sore that Valerie, Brewster-Jennings and the CPD could become, that must be typical Repug brain malfunction in action. If they insist though, I would would be inclined to quote the Deciderator hisself and say ——”Bring it ON!”
LS @ 84
and a lighter moment:
a Okay. We have a list of about 37 names here I am
22 goìng to go through. For each of these ìndividuals also, if
23 you could teLl us what you know about the position they held
24 at the White House.
25 l4r. Berenson. 0y vey.
Berenson is Susan Ralston’s atty.
A Canadian perspective on Libby’s sentence from dave at the Galloping Beaver
I wanted to comment about this yesterday, but got busy with father’s day stuff and felt it was an EPU:
MR. RUSSERT: E.J. Dionne, the Democrats have had an interesting strategy through the voice of their leader in the Senate, Harry Reid. This is how the Politico reported it: “Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called Marine General Peter Pace, the outgoing chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, ‘incompetent’ during an interview with a group of liberal bloggers, a comment that was never reported,” later was.
“Reid made similar disparaging remarks about Army General David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, said several sources familiar with the interview.”
[snip]
MR. E.J. DIONNE (token establishment liberal): blah, blah, blah – did not address the issue.
MS. O’BEIRNE (ol’ 60 grit): Tim, was, was Majority Leader Reid smart or not? No, it wasn’t smart. General Petraeus is widely respected on Capitol Hill. [snip] There’s no reason for Harry Reid to be maligning General Petraeus in any way. At the moment, the facts on the ground benefit the Reid side of the argument, and I do—I don’t think it’s smart for them to be picking on generals who serve so honorably by name. Not smart.
The thing that I found striking is that no one challenged that story in the first place, while it had already been debunked last week by several of people who were actually in the call from the big orange satan, errrr Daily Kos. The story as reported only named “unnamed sources familiar with the call” It fit the “Dem=pansies” narrative, however.
As an aside, I don’t understand why Reid’s office didn’t put out a press release about the Politico story. If there was one, I certainly haven’t seen it.
ever wonder why the big rush to get a pardon for ol’ scooty scoot? I think that the GOP whores are afraid he will spill the beans on the whole operation and most of those that wrote those love letters will go down along with the rest of the administration.
Ghostman, You are totally correct. When I saw the DMN, it took my breath away. Not only because of the long history of conservative bias, meaning forever, plus the ties of Cheney in the Dallas community. I hope there are alot of support LTE for their standing up for the truth. Never thought I would quite shout out for The News (but it has also called for death penalty moratorium). The Times/News, they are a’changing. A little piece of good news.
Bluetoe @ 25
hey bluetoe,
went to the raw story article to read. thanks for the heads up on that one. sounds like it’s follow-on from the last waxman hearing and an attempt to distract the press (will it work? it might!).
but for pups and such and imo, it’s a no dice proposition on the goopers’ part. it’s no dice because there’s no basis for their claim.
it’s more smog from the rove pollution machine.
Ghostman: Maybe the DMN editorial is evidence of a power struggle between the Cheney faction and the Papa Bush faction, with Bush in the middle?
As for Russert, I was disgusted but not surprised by the crap on MTP, having seen him on Tucker’s show last week. He was pushing the idea that Cheney would be pressing Bush for a pardon because Cheney likes Libby so much. Yeah, Cheney likes ol’ Scooter so much that he hasn’t spoken to him in months and was too chicken to write a letter advocating clemency, but they’re best buddies. As if pardons should be granted to the winners of popularity contests. What utterly rancid reasoning.
This is probably too late to be read, but I don’t understand how Tim Russert dare talk about a Libby pardon when he was a witness for the prosecution!!! He was trained as a lawyer. He should have enough sense to recuse himself from any such discussion.
Yikes!
B
all comments re russert knowing better ought to be sent off to meet the press editors and higher-ups.
go pups!
Man, if they’ve lost the Dallas Morning News, they are really in trouble.
>>>never once asked about her close personal ties to Novak as his opus dei conversion godmother,
euuw
To paraphrase the inimitable Lyndon Johnson, the conclusion is that Dick Cheney has Timmo’s pecker in his pocket.
Tim Russert has a law degree and decades of political reporting experience. He cannot plausibly deny knowing what the most important questions are. He can’t explain at all why he hasn’t asked them.
As the head of a major news organization’s Washington, DC, operation, his failure is tantamount to complicity in the wrongs he has chosen to ignore. It’s as if, instead of covering the Valentine’s Day Massacre, he talked about the feds’ being unkind to Scarface Al Capone’s tax accountant.
earlofhuntingdon @ 111
earl o’ hunt… well said! PLEASE make your voice heard over at Meet the Press!
and … yep, shuster rocks. when he’s talking issues with keith olbermann, you just know you’re hearing righteous reporting.
Novak is Opus Dei? That explains alot. O’Beirne is just another mouthpiece for George the Second and her personal connection to Novak is very interesting. Can there be any better proof that Novak is a shill for the Bush Crime Family?
This from Wikipedia on Kate O’Beirne:
Kate O’Beirne’s husband James O’Beirne ran the office at the Pentagon that was in charge of selecting candidates for the Coalition Provisional Authority, charged with reconstructing Iraq. According to the Washington Post, “To pass muster with O’Beirne, a political appointee who screens prospective political appointees for Defense Department posts, applicants didn’t need to be experts in the Middle East or in post-conflict reconstruction. What seemed most important was loyalty to the Bush administration.”
Seems awfully reminiscent of words describing Goodling’s method of screening DoJ applicants.
and reminiscent of Delay’s method of hiring K Street lobbists, etc., etc.
Now what are the odds of that?
Who is giving these hirers their marching orders?
Libby is a “fine fellow” to the neo-con elite who have no regard for the Constitution, for the Rule of Law. His supporters are all traitors by association, at a minimum. If they had an iota of integrity, they’d be demanding that their “fine fellow” be executed, along with those other fine fellows, Cheney, Bush, Rice, Rumsfeld, Armitage and the band of Iran-Contra dick-heads who still garner a salary from the taxpayers’ dollars.
There are few paths available to cleanse the nation of this filth. Unfortunately, those who have the power to execute the cleansing are too afraid or too well-positioned to get off their asses and make a difference. So we’ll fester and ooze the sewage and stench that rots our national life.