Happy Pride Month, people! It’s June, the gayest month in EssEff (among many). The rainbow flags are flying up and down Market Street and our parade is one week from today!And look who’s our Pride Parade Celebrity Grand Marshall: Marine Staff Sergeant Eric Alva, the first American wounded in the IraqWar — who’s now fighting Don’t Ask Don’t Tell (DADT) as a proud out gay veteran. Here’s how Sergeant Alva replied to Joint Chiefs Chairman Peter Pace’s toxic (and perhaps career-ending!) statement that homosexual acts “are immoral”:
“Judging gay men and women in the military for factors unrelated to their fitness to serve undermines our military’s effectiveness. Certain leaders’ bigotry should not be a rational basis for discrimination. This kind of prejudice is going to continue to have a direct impact on our national security as we allow qualified gay men and women to lose their jobs for no good reason. This policy — and General Pace’s bigotry — is outdated, unnecessary and counter to the same American values our soldiers are giving their lives for each and every day.”
And how unnecessary is the DADT policy?
Commander Zoe Dunning, who made history 14 years ago when she came out as a lesbian and won her discharge case with the military, retired after 22 years of military service Saturday, June 2 in a ceremony on the flight deck of the USS Hornet Museum in Alameda.
Dunning came out at a rally for discharged sailor Keith Meinhold in 1993 and was herself immediately targetted for discharge by the USNavy. For two years, she fought her discharge, arguing her sexual orientation was not conduct but status. She won her case within the military.
The Navy, not surprisingly, quickly issued a memo stating that defense “would never work again,” Carpenter said, “but left Zoe in the service.”
Until her retirement, Dunning was the only openly gay person serving in the military. Meinhold and Colonel Grethe Cammermeyer also continued to serve in the military after disclosing their sexual orientation; they both won court victories. Dunning is the only person who was retained through the military process.
Commander Dunning recounted memories of her military career at the ceremony, including a special one:
After September 11, 2001, Dunning served for six weeks of active duty, and while in San Diego, was seated across from the official who prosecuted her during her discharge proceeding.
“I had made commander and he was still a lieutenant commander,” she said.
Dunning said that she was proud of living her life “authentically.”
And how outdated is the DADT policy?
A third-floor room in downtown San Francisco contains military treasures from the past never before displayed for the public’s view. The items themselves – weathered news clippings, black and white photos, neatly pressed uniforms, and even a submarine model – are hardly controversial.
.
[snip]
.
The exhibit, called Out Ranks, is the first in the nation to focus on the lives and contributions of LGBT veterans. Sponsored by the GLBT Historical Society, it follows two timelines that run parallel courses: one focuses on major military conflicts since 1941, the other on LGBT military personnel fighting in those wars.
And how counter to American values is the DADT policy?
Washington, D.C. – The entire field of eight Democratic presidential candidates indicated their support for repealing the military’s “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” ban on lesbian, gay and bisexual personnel during a televised debate on Sunday. The candidates, appearing on CNN, all expressed support for allowing lesbians and gays to serve openly in the armed forces.
But what about the GOP PrezCandis?
WASHINGTON – When asked by CNN’s Wolf Blitzer to raise their hand if they support the repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”, not a single Republican candidate’s hand went up in the air. The position of every single Republican candidate on “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” not only stands in stark contrast to the unified support of repeal by all Democratic Presidential candidates but it is also out of step with the majority of the American people.
.
[snip]
.
On March 12, 2007, USA Today reported, “Polls indicate growing acceptance of gay troops. A Harris Poll this month found that 55% supported allowing gays to serve openly, up from 48% in 2000. A Pew Research Center survey last year found that 60% favored gays serving openly, up from 52% in 1994. Support ran 3-to-1 among those younger than 30.
I’m glad the GOP Presidential candidates are living their lives “authentically” — as unAmerican bigots and homophobes.
Happy Pride! Kiss an American servicemember for me, won’t you please?



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Chicken Cordon Bleus!
TSF!
hello ?
I don’t see why gay men and women can’t kill people at least as well as anyone else.
Hi Teddy!
Evening all. Great Post TSF. I used to enjoy the Pride parade in Chicago when I lived there (even though it pretty much shut down my neighborhood). It as always great street theater. DADT is patently stupid and counterproductive. They used the same arguments against racially integrating the services and against integrating women into regular military units (this last has not always gone smoothly). Sooner or later (probably sooner) GLBT will serve openly in the services.
Teddy, you do admire a man in uniform, doncha?
rwcole @ 4
If the Spartans and Thebans are any example, they potentially do it better.
Don’t forget to nip the Squire too.
-GSD
I let downstairs know, Teddy.
Loo Hoo. @ 7
Fleet Week is another fun time in SF, yes!
It breaks my heart to hear of all the translators and others who could have helped open lines of communication in this conflict.
Most of all the ones who were fired prior to 9/11. Their jobs were to decipher incoming intel when minutes mattered.
America has done many incredible things, created such stellar technologies. So how can we be so dumb?
I’ve never seen a gay pride parade.
Subway Serenade @ 12
it’s a high crime.
Fleet Week in the late 70’s and early 80’s rocked in SF, Teddy. Lots of eye candy walking around the city (fond memories).
Loo Hoo. @ 14
Oh my. Well, you have definitely missed a colorful and extravagant event.
When I watched the Dems debate, I thought Joe Biden had the clearest, most unequivocal statement of all — when you’re in a foxhole and the shit goes down — nobody in the right mind asks — you too f***ing busy not getting killed. Plain and simple.
Hi Teddy,
Sorry for going OT, but I missed y’all downstairs by This Much…
BOB in HI
Thank you so much for the Happpy Day link…great stuff. But, now you got the hubby playing the piano…he’s the sorta 2nd string organist at our church. He’s supposed to be putting in the new water pump in his van. Oh, and for any of you wondering, the chord under the second Happy Day is called an augmented fifth. Now, we can get back to politics and Men In Uniform.
And thanks to Suzanne for the dive. Hi Hon!
The Pride parade here in NYC is a blast. At least the part of it that I get to see, which is performing to folks in Brooklyn on their way to the event.
I am very proud that my party, the Democratic Party, has candidates for president who see the futility of this DADT policy. That it’s not an issue in our nominating process is swell, I think.
Now, on to DOMA, the other Clinton-era failure of leadership on gay rights: the federal Defense of Marriage Act. That too needs repealing!
LooHoo, you have to go at some point. You have not lived until you have seen Dykes On Bikes and The Sisters of Perpetual Motion – all in motion.
Thanks, TeddySF, I really enjoy a good happy post. So much crap is about, but progress is being made.
Loo Hoo. @ 14
It’s just ’cause your in Issaland. I don’t think they’re allowed there. :)
TeddySanFran @ 21
Too true. Why do we straights be the only ones to suffer?
I wish it were on a Saturday…work on Monday. It seems like the kind of event that would call for a great meal and celebration afterwards.
Suzanne @ 22
Saw that last year in Los Angeles — and hoot and a holler!
I wonder whether the Republicans’ problem is that at least one in ten Americans prefers partners of the same sex, or if it’s just that that one in ten would generally rather not have sex with them.
Lew, do you know when the LA parade is? Bet Demi would let me sleep on her couch.
EvilDrPuma @ 28
Actually, I think it is more like 7 in ten would rather not have sex with Repuglicans.
You might not guess it, but there is a Large gay and lesbian community in Salt Lake City. Seriously, must bestest girl-buddy from Girl Scout days lived there until a few years ago. She was into dance and theatre. She knew them all. It’s a dry town, but whenever I visted her she took me to every gay bar in town. The Best! When I met the mister, we went to visit, and it was, for me, a litmus test of sorts for him. If he had any uncomfortablness with her crazy household, I would have flown back to LA by myself. He passed with flying colors. Still does.
Suzanne @ 22
Don’t you mean the “Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence?”
What I love about Gay Pride parades is they are such a celebration of life. All life. In all of its forms, shapes, and types.
DrDick @ 30
Well, yes. I thought if I only counted the gay people who don’t want sex with Rethuglicans, it might make them feel a little better about themselves.
How goes it in Sodom-by-the-Sea, Teddy? Are you having good weather?
Lew Koch @ 18
Similarly, there are no ‘Atheists’ in those foxholes, either!!! 8-)
demi @ 31
Doesn’t surprise me a bit. My impression a couple of years ago is that there is a thriving non-Mormon culture in SLC.
Suzanne @ 33
Agreed. There is such a joyous celebration of being alive and who you are.
Loo Hoo. @ 26
a great meal is one way to celebrate afterwards, I suppose, but many godless sodomites have other ideas!
Loo Hoo,
Mi coucha es su coucha, anytime.
Don’t forget about SLC’s mayor. I like me some Rocky.
Loo Hoo. @ 29
Don’t know the exact dates. I was visiting children and grandchildren — and the parade went right in front of the hotel. Watched for two full hours. The only thing that compares was the Yippies in Chicago in ‘68 — and they didn’t have a contingent of police making their own statement — Mayor Daley would have had a heart attack.
Besides the problem of HAVING this policy is the problem of enforcement. The miltary is HORRIBLE at keeping to the “don’t ask” part. They scour emails and IM from mil personnel looking for evidence of homosexuality.
Phoenix Woman @ 35
Harry Chapin called NYC “Gomorrah on Hudson.”
EvilDrPuma @ 37
Yep. And the University there gives Lots of Grants for the Arts. Hmmmm, intelligent and creative types = dakine!
Did anyone ever ask these two “warriors” if they were, ahem….
-GSD
Lew Koch @ 42
Mayor Daley, Jr., has actually appeared in the parade on several occasions. The GLBT community is a large and important voting block that he relies on.
TeddySanFran @ 39
HA! You funny. I guess whenever I think of San Francisco, I automatically think of food. Really great food.
DrDick @ 47
I was talking about THE Mayor Daley Richard J.
TexB @ 43
They don’t have anything better to do? Like deliver mail?
Subway Serenade @ 44
But Vegas is the Sin City!!! ;-)
It’s not as if the DADT “policy” is implemented in any way honestly, either:
So, if you report a superior officer for asking, those investigating take the time to ask again.
TexB @ 43
The Pentagon brass have very literal minds. When they say “don’t ask,” they mean “don’t ask directly in so many words.” Spies and snitches are fine with them.
Loo Hoo. @ 50
Nope. They contracted that out.
Subway, you are correct – my old age is showing again and my memory misfired. Thanks – I knew there was something wrong with the sentence but could not figure it out.
Lew Koch @ 49
I know. I was justing marking the progress of generations. While I am not a particular fan of Mayor Richard II, he his much more open than his father.
Suzanne @ 22
More on The Sisters
Phoenix Woman @ 35
Today was cool, but the sky was blue. It’s been hot this week, though — which means up to 84!
TeddySanFran @ 57
I’m not sure if it was the same group, but there was a similar group every year in the Chicago parade.
we hit 95.7 in the shade up at the little cottage by the creek in the redwoods, teddy. town was about 5 to 10 degrees hotter and flat out miserable.
Suzanne @ 33
And that is why they fear us! Seriously, the last time Speaker Pelosi appeared in the parade, Bill Orally would not let it alone.
Sadly, duties will keep the Speaker and Congresswoman Barbara Lee, also invited, in Washington this year.
Suzanne @ 60
We had a cool day and didn’t even make 60 today. Like SF anything over 85 is a hot day here.
Suzanne @ 60
It’s been pretty wretched here, too…slightly less hot (but only slightly), miserably humid. If the forecast is worth anything, though, it gets better for a few days.
Cooled off from the hottest on Thursday and Friday. More hot to come and it is not even summer yet (officially)
Suzanne @ 64
Among the reasons I am glad that I no longer live in Oklahoma is summers where it is over 90 pretty much every day from the first of June until early September. Humidity in eastern Oklahoma is also high (like living in a sauna) and stretches of more than two weeks over 100 every day are common.
Judge Scalia, big fan of Jack Bauer.
He really likes it when Jack pretends to execute the family of a terrorist.
-GSD
LA Pride 2007 was June 8-10
San Diego has a HUGE gay population… I can’t believe they wouldn’t have a big parade…
TeddySanFran @ 67
Austin’s was last weekend.
Wow, Suzanne. Is there a spot by the creek that you can sit and cool your tootsies? I’m not big on hot hot.
TexB @ 69
Is that, like, June Pride instead of June Brides?
San Diego Pride Parade July 21
MoDo:
Also:
LooHoo, we have a private beach (on the San Lorenzo River) and I can walk from it upstream to the junction of my creek into the river. I can only walk partway up creek before protruding bedrock prevent me from going further without getting my toes wet. That water is cold year round, too cold.
San Diego Pride: Parade, July 21; Festival July 21-22
GSD @ 66
Excerpt: The conservative jurist stuck up for Agent Bauer, arguing that fictional or not, federal agents require latitude in times of great crisis. “Jack Bauer saved Los Angeles. … He saved hundreds of thousands of lives,” Judge Scalia said. Then, recalling Season 2, where the agent’s rough interrogation tactics saved California from a terrorist nuke, the Supreme Court judge etched a line in the sand.
“Are you going to convict Jack Bauer?” Judge Scalia challenged his fellow judges. “Say that criminal law is against him? ‘You have the right to a jury trial?’ Is any jury going to convict Jack Bauer? I don’t think so.
“So the question is really whether we believe in these absolutes. And ought we believe in these absolutes.”
Yes, Fat Tony, I do. And yes, Fat Tony, I should. Vaffunculo, Fat Tony.
I’ve been to my share of Gay Pride Parades. I only went to one in San Francisco fifteen years ago when they let the members of NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association) walk in the parade. When NAMBLA passed by all the cheers and applause for the various parade participants turned suddenly to silence, then jeers and hateful catcalls like a wave that followed them all the way down Market St. I’ve never seen anything like that since then so it always stuck in my memory the way the mood of the crowd changed on a dime that day. I guess every group of people has its line that can’t be crossed somwhere. I see from the website that they are letting the US Raelians Movement march in the parade this year. I wonder how they will be recieved.
Why is Pride in June?
It was, of course, hours after Judy Garland’s funeral, and those queens were not to be messed with, as the NYPD found to their regret.
OldCoastie @ 72
Wow. I love Hillcrest. It’s like a beautiful oasis in the center of regular city life. I’ll have to see the parade this year. Thanks, OldCoastie!
I remember hearing about the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence! Herb Caen was my favorite columnists, used to love to read his writing. It was sad when he passed over. Baghdad-by-the-Bay was how he refered to The City. I was listening to Carlos Santana earlier, Milagro introduced by Bill Graham. I was explaining to my wife the ad posters they use to put out for the Filmore shows.
Long time ago now. sigh… .
Teddy,
Thanks for writing about this issue. Used to be married to a Navy guy (Naval Academy to boot). He was uncomfortable with gays but thought they had a right to serve — and that their service was needed, e.g. the translators.
We lived in SFO and then moved to NYC…the best of all possible worlds. Our lives eventually moved apart but am grateful his work brought us here. It was a great place to raise our daughter. We love the Gay Pride parade …and here in NYC, the Easter parade. I’ll never forget the first one we attended when my then four year old pointed out the transvestites to her naive mother.
There is so much help we need in our culture. I’ll never understand/accept why we can’t/won’t embrace everyone’s individual talents.
A young girl I know once announced to her mom at age 13 that her feet were growing so fast she’d need to shop for shoes at a tranny store soon. I nearly fell over laughing. (Her 7 yr old sister wants a Goth wedding when she grows up. Odd family.)
TexB @ 82
I don’t know about odd. Seems delightfully original and open.
TexB @ 82
I would love to see a Goth wedding. Sounds fun to me.
Call me old-fashioned, but it’s not really a “Pride” celebration without this!
My father, bless his soul, was in the Navy for 20 years. To him, all sailors were blue – Navy blue. That concept was one I took with me into my years in law enforcement. Did not matter what the cop next to me was, what mattered was that the cop next to me was competent.
Male cops had problems with the idea of a gay man in their locker room but could not articulate it further. Women, on the other hand, were much more open and accepting. Perhaps it has something to do with the way women shop and try on clothes in dressing rooms.
The guys were way more uptight about the sexuality of others than the women were.
Suzanne @ 86
So much of it is social stigma, Suzanne. I don’t even think about it myself. It’s just something else about the person that i know. It’s not a threat. It never was. Even my dad never cared and he was Air Force long before i was born.
Suzanne @ 86
Some of it may reflect the fact that there is (or at least was when I was young) quite a bit of at least quasi-sexual harassment in junior high and high school boys locker rooms. That kind of thing can mark you for life.
Exactly, alias. It is a social stigma.
You are welcome, Jane (nyc).
One point the SLDN makes is that, in time of war, the Defense Department always quits harassing the gays in uniform. Then, when peace breaks out, it’s time to spy and check up on people. In other words, when there’s dying to be done, it’s okay to be gay.
.
.
Great story at the GLBT Historical Society about how SF came to be the gay mecca after WW2 — as servicemen (and some women) were mustered out of the Pacific Theatre at war’s end, they were given blue discharge papers if gay. No one thought they could go home and get work with those papers, so they stayed where they’d been mustered out — and Baghdad-by-the-Bay was born.
Of course, this story is partly apochryphal, as SF has had a rather rich invert history going back to the lady-less Gold Rush Days. As Oscar Wilde may have epigrammed, “Everyone who is said to have disappeared eventually turns up in San Francisco.”
Teddy,
I read your post and it took me a while to find one of my fave pieces of dialogue from West Wing. I used it in a sermon (WARNING, very long quote; no link, I transcribed it):
from West Wing Episode 119
“Let Bartlet be Bartlet”
Aaron Sorkin, writer
One of my favorite scenes, ever.
Hillcrest:
http://www.hillquest.com/community/index.htm
dave @ 85
Nothing old-fashioned about the VP! Thanks!
Suzanne,
Interesting. Not surprising, though. I’m not sure if women are any less judgemental regarding sexual preference. But, what’s the deal with straight men being more accepting of lesbians than gay men. Am I wrong or is that a stereotype I’ve bought into? Is it that those guys could fantatcize about being with two women and not two guys? Is that it?
demi, you are correct in that the male cops i ran into who were scared of a gay man in their locker room had no problem with the idea of a lesbian woman cop.
i can only surmise that it much more to do with their fantasies than their fears.
demi @ 94
That’s part of it i’d say. But there’s also the quieter thing that goes on among women. In the slash fanfiction cadre is guy on guy, for example. So it’s not as if the women aren’t shallow about it either. But i seldom see women freak out about two girls kissing either the way the homophobes do about guys kissing. Double standard. Even if under the surface it seems like it isn’t.
demi @ 94
Lesbians do not threaten them with hidden homoerotic desires. The unfortunate reality (for homophobes) is that human sexuality is not really either/or, but much more anything available with a wide variety of personal preferences. A famous anthropologist once observed that primate (we are primates) sexuality is not merely promiscuous, it is positively indiscriminate.
Jane (nyc) @ 81
If y’all would just become our 11th province, we would show America how to treat gays with equal rights, implement universal health care successfully and have a public education system that rivals private schools.
Heck, we’ll even teach you how to play Hockey (almost) as good as us !!! *g*
The tide is swinging to our side! We obviously have a ways to go, but I can’t help feeling that after we defended marriage equality in Massachusetts last Thursday (I was there, at the ConCon, celebrating!) we can wrap our heads around repealing DOMA and DADT and enacting hate crime/work-place discrimination bills. It’ll be tough work, but not only can we do it, we have to do it.
Petrocelli @ 98
You had me going until you mentioned hockey. ;o)
Petrocelli @ 98
WE ACCEPT!
RevDeb @ 91
Yep.
I never understood why gay men threaten straight men. Don’t get it. Like the whole thing with people saying that gay marriage threatens Real Marriage – between a man and a woman. I’m a fairly intelligent person, but for the life of me, I just don’t get their statements. And, for that matter, how does letting a gay couple adopt an otherwise unwanted child threaten traditional families? I just don’t get it.
Ryan @ 99
There will come a time when people will look back and wonder what the big deal was and why people got up tight about gays and lesbians. I just hope it comes sooner rather than later, but I know it’s coming. It’s coming because we are working to make it happen and because the younger generation already wonders what the fuss is all about.
demi @ 94
Speaking as a straight man, I think it’s unfair for gays to enjoy sex without the fear of procreating hanging over their … um … heads,
… though I love kids an’ all !!! /s
I’ve never understood how sexuality has been turned into such a political football.
EvilDrPuma @ 28
One in ten? Not even close. Quote follows from study posted in Independent Women’s Forum.
About 6 percent of the male subjects reported engaging in sexual activity with other men, while the women were more adventurous — 11 percent having done so with other women. Of the women, though, only 1.3 percent restricted themselves to female partners in the past year. (The authors of the survey do not offer an explanation for this last point, but one can’t help thinking it may be the result of the LUG — lesbian until graduation — phenomenon, in which a little experimentation is considered de rigueur.)
demi @ 103
You mean my marriage didn’t end just because some gay couple in Canada or Europe tied the knot? Should I be looking for other causes?
RevDeb, the military has always, pre-volunteer, been a great instrument of social change. Witness its racial integration, which preceded that of American schools, soda fountains, and public transit.
I worry if the volunteer military is the same democratizing institution, though. Is it prepared for this change? How safe will the gays in uniform be when they come out? Sure, the military will get over it, they always do, there’s wars to fight. But how will individuals cope as the institution goes through a wrenching change?
Of course, our closest allies, the Brits, seem to be managing quite well.
Only horns and a cape, do you suppose?
demi, i think it is one of those things that doesn’t make sense unless one is drinking the kool aid.
DrDick @ 100
LOL !!!
How ya doin’, Doc?
tw3k @ 106
Anything having to do with sex scares the Christianists and the authoritarian Christian hierarchy figured out that they could raise LOTS of money by making it scary. Follow the money.
demi @ 103
I also have trouble understanding much of this (even though understanding such things is what I do for a living). Some of it is simple xenophobia. Some is also early indoctrination that homosexuality (particularly male homosexuality) is evil. The ways we are socialized shape us for life (though not unalterably).
The Bush Rapture involves commandeering the Government to ‘leave behind’ the ‘undesirables’ who are ruining the Country that Bush and his haves/have mores created and built for the past 230 years!
It’s a racist, sexist, homophobic Agenda designed largely to cater to the Insecure, White Male Authoritarian or Authoritarian Wannabe Base, who fancy themselves as the ‘culture bearing’ element of American Society.
Bush, covertly from the inside, is using the Government to secede from US into a realm – the Elites – where The Law of the Land does not apply, but instead it’s the Grace of Bush that holds sway.
The Law of the Land is for the ‘little people.’
This is the ‘wink and nod’ with the Fundies – they’ve all bought the ‘Bush Talks to God’ line – and are ready to follow him as the New Moses, leading the ‘chosen people’ out of the wilderness of the undesirables – all for the cost of blind loyalty and self-humiliating submissiveness.
They are terrified of being ‘left behind,’ even if they have to hate, oppress, kill, lie, cheat, steal, torture, eavesdrop, fix elections, stack courts, and rig the DoJ.
But, you know, they are the culture bearing element of our society…
PLovering @ 107
Thanks. Got a link?
Ryan @ 99
Hindsight is 20/20 vision, but I would have loved to see gays in ‘04 get behind Bush giving them civil unions and hitting every media outlet with barrages of praise for Bush … Kerry would have won by a landslide in the red states …
TexB @ 107
Actually, given my track record, I would have to say that I, a straight man, am a much greater threat to marriage than any homosexual.
Good evening, Petrocelli. Apparently you don’t understand how it works. We don’t become your 11th province, you become our 51st state. “We Bully, You Succumb.” Get it now? *g*
It’s a fucking TV show, Scalia, you overstuffed mark.
What next…Property law decided on Green Acres scripts?
Perhaps taking up a collection to purchase Tony the Gavel a Season One DVD of L.A. Law and some extra cheesy popcorn can rectify this lapse in jurisprudential prognostication.
And TeddySF…This thread isn’t gay enough for this blog.
;>)
I know this will upset Christy, as we have discussed whether FDLers might balk at finding guilt in federal cases because of loss of faith in the prosecutors…but here it is in a major newspaper.
LA Times
http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..ome-center
For months, the Justice Department and Atty. Gen. Alberto R. Gonzales have taken political heat for the purge of eight U.S. attorneys last year.
Now the fallout is starting to hit the department in courtrooms around the country.
Defense lawyers in a growing number of cases are raising questions about the motives of government lawyers who have brought charges against their clients. In court papers, they are citing the furor over the U.S. attorney dismissals as evidence that their cases may have been infected by politics.
tw3k @ 106
I got you with a water pistol last thread, btw.
Suzanne @ 109
Well, I guess I’ll just have to be satisfied with not understanding. No Kool-aid for me. I’m drinking Licorice Spice Tea tonight.
And another thing (!) the only thing worse than the whole military anti-gay thing are the people who claim to be Christians who want to Heal gays. I worked with a beautiful young man who was SO gay and so desperately trying not to be that he started going to a church where the pastor was trying to heal him. I even tried to talk to him about it, he was always talking to me because he knows I am a Christian, and I finally had to tell him that who I am and who his pastor is were entirely different animals.
PLovering @ 107
I have lived far too sheltered a life.
TeddySanFran @ 108
What, no codpiece?
Yes, I hear your concern with the all voluntary military. Truth to tell, if the neocons continue taking us down the road we’re on, that will be the end of the all voluntary military. Draft here we come.
The other concern I have is when places like the AF Acadamy becomes a rampant hotbed of fundies pushing their agenda on all the cadets. There will need to be a purge of the top brass that have found favor with this administration before any kind of normalcy returns to the military, just as the same will have to happen to the DoJ.
Loo Hoo. @ 117
I’m sorry, did you mean to say, “We bully, you suc cum” ? *g*
… tee hee hee … who’s a naughty yogi tonite?
The social issues are really quite simple. I’ve seen them reduced to bumper stickers:
As Robin Williams says, do the fundies think the drive for gay marriage means that they are going to be required to have a gay marriage?
more…
Missouri lawyers have invoked the controversy in challenging last year’s indictment of a company owned by a prominent Democrat, on suspicion of violating federal wage and hour laws. The indictment, which came two months after the owner announced that she was running for political office, was obtained by a Republican U.S. attorney who also has been criticized because he charged workers for a left-leaning political group on the eve of the 2006 midterm election.
The lawyer for an alleged child pornographer recently defended his client at a federal trial in Minnesota in part by questioning the motives of the Republican U.S. attorney, who has come under scrutiny in the congressional investigation into the prosecutor purge.
Lawyers for a former county official in Delaware who has been accused of corruption asked a judge in early May to allow them to subpoena the Justice Department and White House for documents to see whether political motives factored into charges being brought against the official. They cited the brewing controversy inside the Beltway.
“Those revelations dramatically reinforce the reasons to believe that considerations beyond mere law enforcement are behind this prosecution,” the lawyers wrote.
The defendant, a once up-and-coming Democrat, was being prosecuted by the U.S. attorney in Wilmington, a Republican appointee.
Loo Hoo. @ 120
Be careful of his water pistol, Loo Hoo !!! *g*
Great thread Teddy!
tw3k @ 106
The GOP and fundie preachers saw the crowds Anita Bryant drew, and saw the dollar signs. Then it was off to the races.
Petrocelli@98,
Thanks for the offer. You are probably “on point” even more than you realize. I am very attuned to the weirdo issues with gay rights here in the US (grew up in the South). Also, had to send my daughter to private school here in NYC — not so much for the adequacy of the education, but for the safety. Also, re: healthcare…our doctor no longer accepts any insurance of any kind — he’s a “what the market will bear kind of guy”.
Don’t know what to say about hockey except that something is wrong when the last three Stanley Cups have been won by Tampa Bay, Carolina and Anaheim. It’s no wonder the whole world seems cockeyed!
Ryan @ 99
Congratulations, Massachusetts! What an extraordinary victory last week.
The entire military is being taken over by fundies…the air force is long gone.
TeddySanFran @ 131
That victory was years in the making. Hopefully the next state to do it won’t take so long.
Time to sign off for the night. Have many hours to spend in airports and on airplanes tomorrow. Portland here we come…………………….>!
Petrocelli @ 124
Good night Revdeb
newtonusr @ 115
http://www.iwf.org/
Wow. Check out this quote from the Wiki article on Anita Bryant…
***
Okay, so “St. Bernards” was decades ahead of Santorum, but can anybody clue me in on…nail biters?
peterboy @ 120
A defense attorney would be remiss not to use this controversy to aid his or her client. It would be dereliction of duty not to muddy the waters to get an acquittal.
CD @ 136
Ack! You found me out! I’ve been pretending to be normal in here for so many months. Will say goodbye now.
Good luck, Rev Deb.
Our buddy Brad Schlozman and the fundie in Minn are playing big in this story. true political prosecutions.
Great trip RevDeb!
RevDeb @ 111
I do get it, i don’t mean to sound naive, but I still just don’t understand.
Diversification, in thug speak, would be a win-win for the marketplace.
newtonusr @ 129
Thanks so much! Sunday nite is going to be my regular gig, now, to give our TRexian friend more book-writing time.
I look forward to our time together….
Most excellent news, Teddy.
A colorful midnight snack, espe for Anita Briant.
TeddySanFran @ 144
All right! An official spitball/food fight night! Congrats TSF.
kisses to Trex in his absence. may the muse be sweet to him.
Jane (nyc) @ 131
Ahhh, hockey talk makes me warm and fuzzy … All three of those teams deserved to win, although Carolina won because the Oilers lost their goalie to injury in the first game of the finals, not because they were the best team.
I know that we have problems in our system, with BigPharma in control of our health care, but our Gov’t has done some wonderful things, including caring for our seniors and long term care patients. Of course, the system can be improved and like America, most Canadians will be over 50 in 20 or 30 years. However, we are also way ahead in preparing for this inevitability.
Regarding gay issues … I’ve told many “religious” people here this is the “civil rights issue” of this generation … one that America is failing rather badly. Canada & Europe are way ahead … it’s not as though Religious leaders don’t have a great deal of influence here, we are more vocal in standing up for human rights and gay rights is a human rights issue !!!
radiofreewill @ 113
This will sound odd but I was looking around, I dunno why, at all the BDSM stuff a week or so ago and it appears that there a “1950’s lifestyle” movement which includes a “christian” subgenera within that life style.
There are a lot of apt metaphors with in that culture.
Must have been a sweet moment for Commander Zoe, facing Lieutenant Commander Prosecutor across the table eight years later, don’t ya think?
TexB @ 147
Beggin’ your pardon. ma’am… But what are those?
Well, I think I’m going to hang it up for the night. Want to get up early tomorrow and go harass the trout. Take care and enjoy the snark.
TeddySanFran @ 152
Revenge is sweet, eh?
TeddySanFran @ 152
I’ll bet she was a gracious as can be.
newtonusr @ 153
nails, for biting.
or did you want food?
(yawn) Good evening/morning all…fell asleep on the sofa for just a minute, a few hours ago!
DrDick @ 154
Good night Dr D
TeddySanFran @ 144
Congratulations, Teddy! It’ll be fun.
LoudounLib @ 158
Welcome back LL.
Loo Hoo. @ 120
707, I saw that!
I snuck out to get a super soaker but I got sidetracked. *g
DrDick @ 154
Catch one for me, Doc !!!
G’nite.
thanks TexB :-)
TexB @ 146
Now you serve us glass? Could we go back to the tortilla soup?!
Oh my yes, tw3k — watertiger has quite extensively documented the hilarity that is the Christian Wife-Spanking Movement.
tw3k @ 162
Y’all don’t even want to know the variety and splash capacity of the water guns, water pistols, & super soakers in my home.
mmmm young men with water pistols — wait, what were we talking about?
LoudounLib @ 157
Evening, LL!
A more appropriate midnight snack, with far less snark.
mmmm young men with water pistols — wait, what were we talking about?
young men in uniform with water pistols, teddy.
hiya Loo Hoo :-)
Teddy, nice post — and glad to see that you’re going to be a Sunday night regular here!
Your second snack reminds me of the question Tex, of what hearings are on the schedule for this week
(rubbing hands together gleefully at the thought of more whitehouse)
TeddySanFran @ 129
:/
TeddySanFran @ 166
How do find this stuff? It’s just wrong, I tell you. No husband would dare try that with me. Not as disciplianary action anyway.
On that sick note, I’m goint to bed…to read.
G’nite everyone.
TeddySanFran @ 166
TSF, I was laughing so hard reading that site, that I woke up my young un !!! *g*
Here in Eureka Springs the city council passed an ordinance allowing Domestic partners to register at the court house. So a few fundies got together 171 petition signatures and it goes to a special election in Aug. They are in for an overwhelming defeat.. After all this town voted 62 percent for marijuana last Nov. More will support the registry, imo. link below.
Eureka Domestic-Partner Registry To Go Before Voters
Quite an exciting WaPoO chatz opportunity tomorrow, pups — The Great Woodward is available on the anniversary of his and Carl Bernstein’s initial Watergate article:
Bob Woodward at 3pm eastern
Other chatz tomorrow; questions accepted anytime!
Lois Romano on Politics at 11am eastern
Dana Priest and Anne V Hull on Walter Reed at 11am eastern
Howie Kurtz at Noon eastern
Council on Foreign Relations Senior Fellows Steve Simon and Ray Takeyh on “We’ve Lost Iraq; Here’s How to Handle It” at 2pm eastern
demi @ 176
sleep well
Slightly OT…but Anrew Sullivan now is declaring that “Justice is coming”. Now that Sy Hersch has exposed what we already knew about Rummy……As a homosexual I find Sully to be the worse of the worse as a degenerate and concern troll.His (along with Tweety) obsession with everything Clinton still has him drooling. If he is really on board to help expose these criminals and see justice served he needs to get off his fat ass and do some decent reporting. He really makes my blood boil.
Loo Hoo. @ 135
Where’s CTuttle tonight … he would have a few comments to add to this.
Wow, ES, that’s a rather progressive little Arkansas burg you’ve found yourself !!
jeepers I went to refill my coffee and got totaTeddySanFran @ 164
OMG, 707, I totally ran across that!
Eureka Springs @ 178
Med weed? Good on Arkansas!
Suzanne @ 174
Selise posted a link to a quite thorough list in an earlier thread today, if you’re up for hunting for it.
g’nite demi – sleep well
TexB @ 165
heh, when I had a studio in pilly the dumpster for the supersoaker factory was a half-block away. :)
TeddySanFran @ 166
OMG. It is okay for the “Christian” husband to spank the wife, but not okay for the wife to spank the husband.
Gotta have rules in these kinda sports!
teddy, i’ll go look for it now.. thanks
g’nite suz…but I’m afraid I’m going to start having nightmares about camping in 100 heat in August in your neck of the redwoods.
Petrocelli @ 177
This site, and its ilk, tells me that kink will always find a way, regardless of belief system. If you want consensual BDSM in a relationship, no Magic Sky God will keep it away from you. The need for happy gratification is simply too powerful.
Suzanne @ 174
Suz, check selise in the morning. She does an excellent job of keeping everyone up to date. What a sweetheart she is. Just wish I could be home to watch the hearings. And what is this CSPAN 3 crap?
Suzanne @ 174
Darn it … I’ll never get my book finished !!! *g*
Sheldon is an honorary Canadian … as of tonight !!!
demi, come prepared for hot days and cool nights. depends on where the fog bank is. be like a boy scout and be prepared.
demi @ 176
G’nite
debbiedemi !!!*g*Speaking of C-SPAN, I wish they’d expand their repertoire — why can’t we have, like 20 C-SPANS!?? — instead of wasting time cracking down on “imitators:”
snip
Here is the link selise posted to the congressional committee hearings schedule. (rubbing hands) gonna be some hotseats in dc this week
TeddySanFran @ 192
… bu bu but who’s gonna give the husband a good spanking ?!! *g*
TeddySanFran @ 183
I ran for city council here at the ripe old age of 19 (just six months after I moved here) and garnered over 49 percent of the vote. Won by default of sorts a few months after the election. My campaign, less than one month in duration, cost 52 dollars for almost a thousand votes and my opponent got the boot for accepting thousands (over the limit) from the local banker in campaign contributions.
Only the greatest city by the bay managed to keep me away for ten years.
So Aunt Betsy… don’t tell Cassie to wait..)
Petrocelli @ 199
Teddy? You available?
Suzanne – As long as it cools down at night, that’s alright. And I was a Girl Scout. I’m usually prepared for anything!
Petrocelli – g’nite…I still haven’t found a transcript of Lawrence Tribe.
TeddySanFran @ 186
Here it is.
Petrocelli @ 199
Guess Jesus will have to do it.
Teddy,
Sad to say, but our local Pride Parade is dying. Sure it was just a tiddler compared to the Pridezilla that is the Sydney Mardi Gras but I’m sad about it. There’s still plenty of interest among spectators but the problem is the parade itself. It’s getting shorter and less intersting. Last year, there weren’t even any marching boys!
The reason I’ve read (and I’ve just spent an hour looking for a link with no success) is that young gays and lesbians aren’t interested. Shows you how much times have changed, they don’t see any need for one day, week, or month to celebrate because they celebrate their lives every day of the year. Sure there are issues still to be addressed but they just don’t see marching through the streets in tutus, entertaining the straights, as the way to fix them.
On the happy side, we just had our first adoption by a gay couple.
demi @ 202
Good night, demi!
newtonusr @ 185
Nope not med… all weed.. as it should be..)
demi, camp fire girl myself. all the same principles.
all weed, es? no limits? in the state or just your neck of the woods?
demi @ 202
I am a very patient yogi … if and when you find a transcript, please e-mail me. Mr. Tribe was dynamite, from what little I saw on CSpan.
Suz, could you give my e-mail to demi the girl scout? *g*
Sweet dreams, Loo. You’re almost off for the summer, no? Maybe you’ll come down to LA some time. You’re right. Mi coucha es always available. nite…
Eureka Springs @ 207
That’s some town.
selise has taken it upon herself to list hearings on a regular basis. You can count on her to have the hearings up on Monday mornings, and intermittently throughout the week. A jewel.
Loo Hoo. @ 204
Oh Ohh … sounds like time for a Little Johnny joke !!! *g*
Petrocelli, just put your email address in the non-spam format using AT and DOT in the thread. Kinda busy now.
Eureka Springs @ 198
seriously.
Suz, It was a city vote. I wasn’t able to vote since I live outside the city limits.
It’s a tourist town with a little over two thousand residents and twenty plus thousand hotel and B&B guest beds.
Loo Hoo. @ 213
Even more of a jewel – selise records important hearings and posts the mp3’s there, too.
persiflage @ 205
Just add a Cricket match to it … should work like a charm !!! *g*
S’okay, Yogi, I’ll get it another night.
I’ve been thinking about moving to Eureka Springs…for about a minute now.
Loo Hoo, the thought has crossed my mind as well!
Petrocelli, the email thing was really as protection for cassie back when folks wanted to send her some KV books.
It is not something the moderators at the lake usually do.
Loo Hoo. @ 221
Here is a link to our Lovely Citizen newspaper.
And general stuff at eurekasprings.org
newtonusr @ 218
True.
Suzanne @ 215
Thanks Suz, the last time I wrote my e-mail here, one of the commenters said I had done it incorrectly.
But ES, doncha have all that (gasp) humidity and tornadoes?
TSF – Re the wapo chats? Do you know these folks?
Council on Foreign Relations Senior Fellows Steve Simon and Ray Takeyh on “We’ve Lost Iraq; Here’s How to Handle It” at 2pm eastern
looks interesting.
LoudounLib @ 220
It will get overpopulated; like Vermont if it succeeded from the union! *g
tw3k, prolly sad but true ;-) if a lot of DFH types go flocking down there…
but they would be mellow DFHs, LL
true, Suz!
well I’ll be watching and waiting to see what happens over the next 5 years until I can retire. Who knows what progress will have been made by then?
i never ran into someone who was a mean pothead. lots of mean drunks. lots of cranksters and their violent paranoia, but mellow seems to be the main effect of smoking pot.
I’ve really got to get out more. I’ve never been in the “deep” South. TRex and now Eureka Springs make it sound so nice.
I’ve been to Europe, and could easily live in Florence. I love Panama. But my own country, I need to explore a lot more. And Canada!
That’s exactly right Suz — from, uh, what I hear and all ;-)
What’s DHF?
Loo Hoo. @ 235
Come to Texas!
dirty f***ing hippies, Loo Hoo
dirty fucking hippies..
Loo Hoo. @ 234
LooHoo, I don’t think Eureka Springs qualifies as the “deep” South.
The south is lovely. But dayam, the summers totally suck with all that hot and humidity. I don’t do well with hot and humid.
I love Florence.
speaking of which, XM 40 (Deep Tracks) had a fun DFH tribute over the weekend celebrating the 40th anniversary of Monterey Pop. It was far out…
(waving to vg)
Suzanne @ 242
In this town, everything has AC and the pools are free. Also some natural springs. Not so bad.
Suzanne @ 241
Right, okay then Suz “the South is lovely”. We need to have a serious chat about this sometime…
Suz- waving back, and not with my rebel flag…
Suz, I’m with you on the hot and humid. NoVA native, pretty far north by “southern” standards, but it gets awful here during the summer and I just don’t deal well with that.
LoudounLib @ 239
Oh, that, I’ve been to Houston, Betsy, froze my rear off! Plus people carry guns. What am I missing?
I hear the shopping in Dallas is beyond my means…
LoudounLib @ 158
Welcome back, LL!
Bob in HI
Hiya Bob!
Eureka Springs @ 242
So, Giovanni de Firenze, why didn’t you buy shoes?
Petrocelli @ 182
You Rang? Just wrapped up my annual Father’s Day BBQ, by the way, Happy Father’s Day, to all the Dads out there!!! *g*
Loo Hoo. @ 250
You’re missing Austin & San Antonio!!!!
hey CT, hope you had a nice Dads’ Day :-)
MTP new(?) vocabulary: Bush is now “below freezing” in the polls (29%). I like that image!
Bob in HI
My grandma’s farm in KY, vg. The green rolling hills of OK. Not real keen to TX (sorry) but that is because I didn’t see much green in TX. Lived in New Orleans as a kid.
Most everywhere I’ve been in the South has been lovely to look at, VG.
CTuttle @ 254
Hey Buddy !!!
Happy Father’s Day ... I didn’t know of this BBQ !!! *g*
Eureka Springs @ 228
Here’s their Sunday Outlook article.
EXCERPT:
No, I don’t know who these renegades are. But it’s amazing that the WaPo allows this thinking into the paper.
LoudounLib @ 256
Thanx, sure did! :-)
TSF — maybe Hiatt is on vacation…?
Suz- people in CA are accused of being shallow, superficial friendly glad handers. But, my housemate from grad school (of VA raising) told me, when he learned I was moving there, Southerners will be friendly, but they will never be your friends. Some places are very beautiful, scenery-wise, and if you have personal family connections, maybe same for people. But, in my experience, my house mate was correct.
TeddySanFran @ 260
Man that place has a split personality.
Petrocelli @ 259
Hadn’t seen you at the Lake recently to pass it on!!! ;-)
Valley Girl @ 253
Honey, I bought all kinds of shoes.. my favorites are custom made sandals.. naturally, the least expensive items I purchased… thank goodness I bought two pair.
LoudounLib @ 262
Y’know, that’s not a bad theory; there’s been no Libby Lobby Editorial either….
TeddySanFran @ 260
Bush is trying to blame the lost war in Afghanistan on NATO … he’ll probably blame Poland for the mess in Iraq …
I’m sorry you had that experience, vg. What I remember as a kid in the south may have changed. :(
Hey –
It’s a little known fact, but TeddySanFran looks most like the Leather Daddy member of the Village People!
I think it’s pretty much agreed inside the Beltway that the Iraqis are gonna be blamed for the mess in Iraq.
TeddySanFran @ 271
not the dems?
Eureka Springs @ 265
okay, maybe I can trust you again.
Tex, I think the rethuglicrooks want to be able to blame both the Iraqi government and the dems.
CTuttle @ 265
My two darlings made plans for a “Father’s Day Weekend” and had us doing all kinds of crazy, fun things.
They even made dinner, although I had to
makehelp with the burgers, fries and Root Beer Floats.I love teaching meditation, but my best “job” is being a dad !!!
Suzanne @ 274
Well there’s certainly enough blame to spread around. Aren’t the gays and abortion doctors also to blame? What about intellectuals? Atheists?
OT-This is a call to arms, from Arianna, that needs to be heeded!!! Stop the Madness, Now!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..52520.html
The most fun I ever had at SF Pride was when I worked for KSAN radio. I got the station to agree to spring for printing up matchbook-covered condoms. We partnered with the Stop Aids Project.
One side had that stop sign and the other the KSAN logo.
Damn it was fun to ride that truck down market street and throw the condoms out. Best way to see the parade, imho.
Hey Jacqrat! luv u.
Suzanne, YGM
CTuttle @ 277
How are you asking us to respond?
Petrocelli @ 275
It is the Best Job!!! 8-)
Crimany. I didn’t know there was such a thing as an Evangelical Roman Catholic.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..ck-romney/
Great find, thanks. I think I’ll stop in and ask about the oil contracts etc.
Jacqrat, that sounds like so much fun. Condoms with logo’s – I remember KSAN – didn’t know you worked there back in the day.
Time for me to call it a night. Hope to sleep through. If not, I trust someone will be here holding down the fort?
TexB @ 281
Poke holes in the Repug’s talking points, as enumerated by Amb. Crocker, early and often!!!
Good night TexB, sweet dreams :-)
Valley Girl @ 279
Of course you do, sweet girl! Doesn’t EVERYBODY?
ok, don’t throw stuff. I was kidding.
TexB @ 286
Sleep Well, Ma’am!!!
pain free sleep wishes, texb
Jacqrat @ 289
ROFL! Go check out the FIRST of the midnight snacks Jacqrat. You seem the kind of girl who would appreciate it.
Suzanne @ 285
I had to keep one of the saleswomen from throwing them all out in the first 1/4 mile. she was a woman obsessed. we had to make them last. But I kept a box of 25 and gave them to my niece!
Jacqrat @ 270
Who’s been telling you tales?
Hi, J — have you seen this? (Hint — her initials are RW !!)
Good night, Betsy.
Love you Jacqrat, though I barely know you! *g* to use Petrocelli’s mark.
Jacqrat @ 289
Well, I can’t think of many who don’t. But, we don’t even need to go there. Howie luvs you. And that would be good enuf for me, even if I hadn’t run up your already huge cell phone bill. ;)
Petrocelli @ 98
Get rid of Martin and we can talk.
Loo Hoo. @ 295
I learnt of *g* from FDL … the Lake is truly an infinite source of knowledge !!! *g*
burnspbesq @ 297
Martin was a brilliant Finance Minister and Prime Minister. Canada elected Harper, AKA Bush-Lite about a year ago – Feb. 2006 and we hope to be rid of him by this fall.
I loves me some Judy Garland. I always thank her for starting (albeit unbeknownst to her) the Stonewall Riots.
“The Man That Got Away”
Loo Hoo. @ 135
Have a good trip!
well it is very late here and I’ve got to go. Good night all, from the beautiful South!
Discrimination, is discrimination, is discrimination. It should never ever be tollerated.
I was wondering when you guys were gonna get around to giving him the heave-ho. *grins* Parliament has told him to shove it so often.
g’nite LL. sleep well (and not on the sofa)
;-) Suz! good night!
LoudounLib @ 302
G’nite, Ma’am!!!
Nite, ll.
TeddySanFran @ 260
I concluded that the war was lost several years ago when the UN had to pull out of Iraq because of security concerns. The two real signs that you’ve won come (a) when the major airports are open to commercial travel, and (b) when the UN and the NGOs are able to conduct their business in a normal fashion. Neither of those conditions has been true for years, and there is no prospect for either for the foreseeable future.
The war was lost years ago, and what we’ve had since then is spin doctors trying to paper over the failure and make it look nice. This is all to paper over the BushCo conceit about establishing a permanent military presence in Iraq to control the oil. (Why else did they build 8 large superfortresses around the country?)
Bob in HI
new threadiness
TeddySanFran @ 294
Hi Teddy! *swoons* It’s Rachel Maddow! That HOT DYKE on the radio!
D R E A M Y !
New thread upstairs by TeddySF
Bob in HI
thought you might like that, J.
Seen her lately on Countdown as well?
new thread
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..s/#respond
Fresh Teddy upstairs
aliasofwestgate @ 304
The opposition parties are daring him to bring his “environment bill” to a vote … they will give him a no- confidence vote, bring down his Gov’t and smack his party down as anti- environment in the election.
When Gore gets treated like a rock star here, Bush-Lite knows the environment is high on the list of priorities of Canadians.
FYI, Martin lost the election to Harper more because of party in-fighting than for anything Harper did to win it.
I read about that in-fighting during those elections, Petrocelli. I’ve been observing how canada has pretty much been going through governments rather quickly in the last 6 years or so. *grin* But it’s a sign of an active electorate and parliament with a bone to pick against bad leadership. Something the dems really, really need to learn.
aliasofwestgate @ 317
The Liberals are becoming complacent, like the Dems … they seem incapable of electing someone outside of Quebec as party leader, despite the qualifications.
DrDick @ 97
Which famous anthropologist said THAT? Primate sexuality is species specific. There are some 200 species and they cover a lot of different sexual and social patterns.
Some species are apparently utterly restricted to heterosexual activity that’s largely monogamous (Gibbons); others have sexuality that is inhibited by most members except the dominant pair (Titi Monkeys); some have heterosexual promiscuity (Common Chimps) but have never been observed having homosexual activity; some have serial monogamy; others have sexuality activity with all members of the group except females and their own sons (bobobos). They have sex all the time…it acts to alleviate social tensions and stress. Conversely in orangutans you may not have mating events for years..females only are in estrous every four to six years and generally seek out established males to mate with…although there are some unterritorial males that will occasionally “rape” females.
Human sexuality is sometimes compared to bonobos, but individuals vary tremendously in their sexual activity with members of the same (or other sex). In bonobos the “open sexuality” is fairly standard to all members…there are no males that avoid sex with females and only have homoerotic activity, for example.
Thus in the 5 Great apes species and humans there are six different socio-sexual systems. And our nearest relatives, the chimp and bonobo have pretty strongly distinct ones…and they are only about 2 million years separated as distinct species. We’ve been some 6-8 million years on a separate path from our common ancestor with the chimp-bonobo lineage.
No other Primate exactly reflects human sexuality. We are unique. But so are many other Primate species.
PLovering @ 107
Of course, this doesn’t include those who are currently inactive sexually. Did the survey ask consistent questions? Were all the questions framed with the ended “in the last year”? Because a heck of a lot of people go through periods of sexual inactivity…and they could be gay/lesbian or straight or bi. And if the first samples were not appended with the tag “in the last year” (i.e. ever) and then you ask about sexual “restriction” in the last year you are going to get – quite naturally- far fewer numbers than people who actually identify as gay/lesbian.
But this survey also doesn’t deal adequately with people who transition through life with partners that shift by sex. They may be lesbian in the twenties but straight in their thirties. Or vice versa.
And the survey didn’t actually age-grade their questions. So perhaps the female variation is that women are more “open” to discussing their homosexual encounters than males (as males are more likely to be nervous about revealing such due to that male-male threat issue discussed above).
Or it could be “older women” who discover their female partner preference later in life.
Or maybe women are simply more likely to stay “true” with one sexual partner of whatever sex longer.
But while this survey might be good for assessing the upper % of “self-acknowledged” gay/bisexual numbers (not those in the closet that haven’t actually had/would admit to a homosexual act)…at any specific time…the second question really doesn’t illuminate what the actual number of gay/lesbians are.
Petrocelli @ 98
Guess where this is from?
You guys can join the USA anytime you want!