Dan Froomkin has a great point on the next step in the Team Libby process:
If Judge Reggie B. Walton decides that Libby will not remain free pending his appeal, his defense team is expected to file an emergency motion with the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. That request would go to the three judges serving on a “special panel.”
Who would be on that panel? Given the highly political nature of the case — and the bench — that could be significant. But there’s no way to know. Mark Langer, the clerk of the appeals court, told me this morning that the court never divulges which judges are serving on the special panel until their order is issued.
Presumably at least one of the judges on the circuit — Brett Kavanaugh, who served in the White House with Libby — would have a clear conflict of interest. Langer said there is a recusal process that either automatically or voluntarily removes judges from the special panel.
This is done in federal courts everywhere — there is a standard procedure to be followed for recusal from a case where there are close ties or perceived conflicts of interest between a litigant, an attorney and/or a particular aspect of a matter before the court.
Whether it is followed to the letter and in keeping with the intent, however, is another question. Readers will no doubt recall the kerfuffle regarding the Scalia/Cheney duck hunting trip, the ensuing debate, and the subsequent refusal of Justice Scalia to recuse himself from the energy task force case. Some of those same issues may be brought up with regard to judges on the DC Circuit who have either worked for or with the Bush Administration, Dick Cheney, and I. Lewis Libby on various matters.
For a glimpse of how at least one judge on the DC Circuit who might be thought to have a conflict on this has walked through the recusal thought process, read this brief opinion from Judge Kavanaugh (PDF), who declines to recuse himself from a particular matter at bar. (H/T to HowAppealing.) Judge Kavanaugh places a lot of emphasis in this particular case on whether or not he was directly involved in litigation — and not so much on the appearance of impropriety or perceived conflict due to prior employment allegiance — but I caution as you read it, this is only a single case, and each and every case has to be considered on its own merits and facts independently. It does, however, give us a good peek at some prior rationale from the judge.
Here is a glimpse of his reasoning (PDF):
Section 455(b)(3) of Title 28 is the provision that of federal law that specifically addresses the recusal of federal judges who formerly served in government. The statue requires recusal when a judge “has served in governmental employment and in such capacity participated as counsel, adviser or material witness concerning the proceeding or expressed an opinion concerning the merits of the particular case in controversy.”…
A “proceeding” is defined to include “pretrial, trial, appellate review, or other stages of litigation.” 28 USC 455(d)(1)….As to prior government work, Congress was aware of the deeply rooted tradition of high-level Executive Branch and Legislative Branch officials assuming the bench. Based on that history and to avoid making it all but impossible for judges with such backgrounds to perform their judicial duties in many cases, Congress established the specific “personal-participation” rule in [Sec.] 455(b)(3). In determining whether recusal is appropriate or inappropriate based on prior government employment, judges must respect the line drawn by Congress.
To be sure, Congress could not forsee every conceivable recusal scenario that might occur. Therefore, rare and extraordinary circumstances arising out of prior government employment — but not covered or envisioned by [Sec.] 455(b)(3) — conceivably could occur and support recusal under [Sec.] 455(a). Even so, this case is not such an extraordinary situation.
It may or may not be indicative of the sort of reasoning we’ll see from him or others on the DC Circuit. He is correct that government service alone in a particular Administration is not enough to disqualify a judge from matters dealing with that Administration once s/he is appointed to the bench. But close ties to particular people or policies do raise questions that need to be asked and answered about the need for recusal, or not, as the case may be.
If and when an appeal from Judge Walton’s decision yesterday is filed by Team Libby (which I expect sooner rather than later), a specific panel of judges from the DC Circuit will be selected to hear the appeal, and we’ll see where things go from there.
For some further information on all of this, take a peek at the federal rules guidelines on recusal. Section 455(a), referenced above by Judge Kavanaugh, reads as follows:
Any justice, judge, or magistrate judge of the United States shall disqualify himself in any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned.
The question in the Libby appeal, for a lot of the judges on the DC Circuit, will be from whose perspective they are viewing the potential for a conflict of interest – and what the meaning of ”reasonable” might be in the phrase “impartiality might reasonably be questioned” – with a high-ranking Bush Administration official and long-standing ties of a number of the folks on the bench to Republican party politics, and the enormous amount of pressure from the Free Scooter wing of the party trying to sway the public opinion of the GOP base to their side looming from the sidelines. One of the lingering questions is the trickle-down effect on recusal considerations from the whole Scalia/Cheney duck hunting fiasco: the Scalia refusal to recuse himself when there was a clear question of personal friendship considerations coming into play may or may not give other federal judges the excuse to stay on cases brought by or against friends — or it may be an object lesson in what not to do. Jury is still out on that one.
In my experience, at least, most judges go out of their way to avoid even a hint of impropriety when a recusal is requested in good faith and where a question truly does exist, both to uphold their own reputation for fairness and honesty and to uphold that same sense of fairness in our nation’s system of justice. When a question is close for a past friend or former legal colleague, let’s say, most judges simply recuse themselves from consideration and pass the case on to colleagues who are not so personally tied to one litigant or another. We’ll see if that precedent is followed in the days to come.
This is certainly something that we will be following closely.
For more reading on the Libby case, the WaPo and the NYTimes have wrap-ups of yesterday. And TBogg visits the Kidz in the Corner. Via Crooks and Liars, the folks at Fox News say Cheney is working extra hard to force a pardon out of the President — nope, no self-interested reason for Cheney to do that at all here, no siree, just a loyal guy being loyal, no CYA for Cheney at all whatsoever. Nothing to see here. Ahem. And just for giggles, PastorDan says that Barbara Comstock is on Mitt Romney’s “Faith and Values Steering Committee.” Bwahahahahahahaha.
Related posts:
- GM Bankruptcy in SDNY: Improper Forum Shopping or Search for a Sophisticated Bench?
- “Statesman” Orrin Hatch: I’m a Cynical Horse-Trader, So Don’t Hold My Sotomayor Vote Against Me
- SCOTUS Denies Valerie Plame Wilson Her Day in Court
- Texas-Two Step: Same-Sex Divorce Before Marriage Equality?
- Supreme Court Will Hear Uighur Case





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hey
Christy!
Zed! Whoops…guess not….slow computer…..carry on…..
punaise — Good to see you! How are the graduation festivities going?
Maybe we’ll get lucky here and the judge(s) in question will recuse themselves. (Not holding breath here.)
Incidentally, Am*z*n is doing a package deal: Murray Waas’s book with emptywheel’s book.
EPU’d from last thread:
Biodun @ 138
Missed tres para Hillary, pero – OT, but This may be big:
Sen. Ted Stevens is following in the footsteps of Rep. John T. Doolittle (R-CA) and Sen. Robert Menendez (D-NJ), who are both under federal investigation, by asking for a review of his financial records from last year, allowing him to put off filing his official disclosure forms.
The forms were due to the Senate Ethics Committee by May 15, but Stevens’ were not among them . The Washington Post and McClatchy report that the request for a review could be a sign that Stevens is in trouble with the law.
Any justice, judge, or magistrate judge of the United States shall disqualify himself in any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned
I hate to raise a Red Team/Blue Team point, because I think the actions of the Red Team have harmed our country and cheapened political discourse.
But if you had positions reversed, wouldn’t there by a whole talking point, PR offensive, amici brief writing campaign to “reasonably” “question” Silberman in advance of his even getting the Team Libby papers?
punaise:
Felicitations deux fois: des gosses et apropos le zero…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 4
hi, Christy! so far so good. we’re in the midst of a mini-heat wave, so the late afternoon Berkeley High ceremony at the west-facing Greek Theater amphitheater on the Cal campus may be an ordeal.
…half way to empty-nesterhood…
we have seen that this administration’s appointees do whatever it takes to continue their influence
look at alito who decides for corporate law every time, even in identical instances but plaintiffs reversed, he will side with the corporation
and scalia
this is the nuts and bolts here, if this judge is a loyal bushy he’s gonna remain on the case and do whatever it takes to carve an exclusion for himself
Hey punaise!
You deserve it. But who’s gonna prep the graduation party weenies ‘n koolade?
So, there’s no recusal process for SCOTUS, apparently. Tongue only half in cheek.
albert fall @ 8
The repubs are just so much better at massive bullsh*t campaigns. It’s an ability that would greatly help the dems, though it might leave a bad taste in the mouth to have to adopt such tactics.
a bit OT – but tim griffin. I note he’s still listed as USAtty for EDMO.
thought he’d left?
thanks for any info!
Lou! Pete!
This whole Libby Circus is appalling, so I’m gonna spend the weekend being proud of Massachusetts.
Biodun @ 6
Shorter Shuster: “Scooter’s got to choose between Big Time and Hard Time.”
A question for the FDL legal team: can any “excess contributions” to Libby’s defense fund be used to support his family while he’s on his 30 month stay in prison?
Or would that be seen as trying to further obstruct justice, by encouraging Libby (wink, wink) to keep quiet?
I’m sure ethical donors would love to know.
Regarding recusals and Libby…Didn’t this whole thing start with John Ashcroft stepping away from being the one to appoint a Federal Prosecuter in the CIA Investigation of Ms. Plames outing?
Man-o, I’d take Mr. Ashcroft over Mr. G. anyday.
Yeah, and we used to think Nixon was the most evil guy on the planet. What a difference a coupla decades came make.
punaise—
Congratulations!!! Good work, dad.
—————-egr
THANK YOU for this post, Christy!
Been stewing over all the side-stories & wicked possibilities rattling around in my head.
Need.info.bad(!) to combat ghastly-possibility ghosts… *blush*
suspect i have company here… *g*
luv this community… ;->
Biographical data of the judges on the DC Circuit here.
It should be pointed out that in the lead up to war, Libby etal., used lies by Chalabi to get support for putting our troops in harms way. Now this, it makes me irate to know those men and women are sacrificing their lives for the likes of this deceitful human being:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/14/chalabi-iraq/
I want to say how happy I am that I stumbled across Firedoglake one day when I was procrastinating because I didn’t feel like working on my dissertation. The Libby liveblog hooked me. This is something that I have been thinking about for a while and wonder what others think. I’m posting this in two parts bc it is kind of long.
We are currently in a time where significant change can occur. We are war weary; we don’t like the direction our country is headed, and the rhetoric of the political/business/media leaders paint a picture that is at significant odds with people’s daily lives. The middle class is economically insecure, and the corruptness of the Bush administration is becoming more and more apparent in ways that people can relate to. We understand what would happen to us if we engaged in the behaviors that are prevalent in the administration. The conservative coalition is crumbling and the internecine battles are fun to watch.
If we want the progressive agenda to emerge as the dominant political force, we need to take advantage of this situation. If we don’t, some other ideological perspective will. Given the number of sleeper cells planted in career positions in the executive branch, the results could be disastrous. We also cannot rely on the judiciary to rule on the side of the progressive agenda; the GOP has had too long to control the appointment of judges. I think there are a number of things that need to be done (many are already occurring, but we still need to keep pushing in those areas). I think there are a number of lessons that can be learned from the conservative movement’s playbook.
Initially, controlling the framing of the message is critical. The conservative movement gained power because of their relentless efforts at shaping the national discourse on virtually every front: economic, foreign policy, social issues, science, etc. This was facilitated by the left’s willingness to not touch certain issues. As a consequence we have memes such as Dems are weak on defense; the GOP is the party of responsibility, etc. that are at complete odds with reality. However, the façade is beginning to crumble. We have a chance to reframe a lot of the big picture issues that drive people’s voting behavior. But, in order to do this we need to fight every time that the right misrepresents things, AND we need to call out media personalities every time they uncritically use the GOP constructed frame. We need to deluge the inboxes of not only the reporters, but also the editors, omsbudspersons, AND advertisers. This is a strategy that the right has used from the beginning, and they gained a lot of mileage from it. Some are beginning to do this already, but it needs to be done on a much larger scale. Blogs like this are great because they allow us to share egregious examples with each other so that our actions can have greater impact.
Second, we all know the power of the GOP noise machine, and we need the equivalent. This is starting to develop with blogs; however, a large number of people have little or no access to the internet. We need to get the same messages that bloggers like Christy and Jane are bringing to the internet to other venues. Letters to the editors; issue ads that educate about important issues, for example, an ad explaining the principle of habeous corpus, its history, and its import as a basis for every other right that we have; books (the right has Regniery publishing, which recruits people to write books on topics they deem important. You get the point; the right has effectively utilized every conceivable medium, and we need to regain that ground. We need to make it easy for people to access our message.
btw, gang — enjoy the Lou Reed and Pete Townshend clip. I thought Waiting For The Man was a fun song for the day today. *G*
ON Habeas
Mutant Poodle reminded us it’s the 792nd birthday of Habeas Corpus today and suggested we send a card
Clarity in the emptywheel tradition. More from Hardball yesterday:
Now, let’s also remember that Charlie Gibson, renowned ABC’s Wolrd Tonight anchor, said to Don Imus–that he didn’t understand the Libby case at all. He said he couldn’t explain it in five minutes.
Rick DeVille @ 16
Ehrrmm . . . Romney?
(so sorry, couldn’t resist!)
Biodun @ 27
Schuster is too good for teevee. That’s perverse, but there it is.
janda at 23 — Glad you found us, too — some good stuff to think about. Thanks.
janda @ 23 and 24:
Excellent posting. Keep posting on this site while taking breaks from dissertation writing. You may even find that this site will facilitate your dissertation writing. *g*
Is anyone else getting that “what’s going to hit the Friday news dump fan today” feeling, too?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 32
Yeah, but I’m getting that same feeling Mondays through Thursdays these days, too. *g*
Christy Hardin Smith @ 32
Yeah, it is creepily quiet this morning. Something is up.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 32
we might have actually weakened the strategy since we all look out for it
Peterr at 33 — LOL Me, too, to be honest.
OT: Lou Dobbs spews all over the immigration bill,
and rightly so.
http://www.forthecause.us/medi…..070523.wmv
Bush made the gay marriage amendment a major part of his re-election campaign- arguing that “activist judges” in Mass. were creating that need for such an amendment. He got re-elected and we haven’t heard much about this crucial amendment since- now, since the Mass legislature has acted, Romney is claiming that we need the gay marriage amendment because of the action of the activist legislature who “didn’t give the people a chance to vote on this issue”.
These clowns are lame, lame, lame. It’s the JOB of the legislature to make these decisions- we don’t VOTE directly on policy issues- we trust our elected representatives- that’s how it’s SUPPOSED to work.
The bottome line? Goopers have wanted to cut the nuts off the judiciary for years for “Roe/Wade” and other supposed atrocities- now they want to cut the nuts off the legislative branch as well. They want a fuckin monarchy!!!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 32
yup. standing by. well, only for a few more minutes, then back to work. will have to dig in tonight if there’s another dump.
Mandrake @ 28
Touché! But thankfully that particular interloper is out of our hair, and tangled up in the hubris of his presidential bid. My comment was mostly in response to the Commonwealth’s encompassing attitude toward marriage, as demonstrated on Beacon Hill yesterday.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 32
Especially with Father’s Day coming up. I wonder what Daddy Bush is wanting from his first born son for Father’s Day?
Whatever it may be, I would seriously doubt Little Boots could or would provide it.
rwcole @ 38
and since bush can appoint himself dictator they might get their monarchy juuuuhhhhsstt before the 08 election
perris @ 42
Then there will be the second American Revolution as a result.
Peterr @ 33
Me too. Could it have been the item yesterday about Gonzo’s use of the interim appointment authority?
dakine01 @ 43
not if corporate media has anything to say about it
if there is a “catastrophy” the media will hypnotise the sheep into believing we must “postpone” our election
Christy, you are so Sept. 10th,
The wording
has been changed, by a classified presidential finding, to
perris @ 42
If there is one.
LS @ 22
Good Morning LS – Did you know that Valerie Plame was COVERT and Sandy Berger pleaded guilty and showed remorse?!
Rick DeVille @40: How the heck did y’all end up with him anyway? I will admit, not to sheepishly, to not having followed Mitt’s bio.
spurious @ 47
well that’s the point, it looks like they are setting themselves up to “postpone” the presdential election…possilby “suspend” congress too
Judges can’t be trusted to do what it says in the Bible- Legislatures can’t be trusted to do what it says in the Bible, it isn’t clear that the people themselves can be trusted to do what it says in the Bible- hell- Look at Soddom and Gomorah..
ERGO
We need a holy king who will make every decision based on the book of Kings.
allan_in_upstate @ 46
spew!!!
Romney- comin out on the side of ignorance loudly and clearly…
Aren’t politicians admirable creatures?
It’s so quiet out there today, it almost makes you want to go out and poke a stick at something and see what happens. Naahh.
Glenn Greenwald in Salon today:
Definitely worth a read before any possible “Friday news dump.”
Christy, I hope this EPU is OK…. apologies if not.
Elliott, I so hope the troops and vets – and the Iraqi civilians traumatized by the US invasion and the US Iraq Occupation – all receive the health care and mental health care they need.
They’ll need it for years, if not decades.
Many will need life-long care.
The DOD annoucement treats the Army’s PR problems, but little else.
If the AP did their sums right, the additional 200 mental health positions represent a 25% increase in staffing.
Umm – so the Army has 800 mental health practitoners…
and they’re adding 200.
Total forces in field are 150,000 (roughly?).
The low range estimate of 15% leaves us around 22,500 troops with acute PTSD symptoms in the Iraq theater.
And – if I understand the data (please help if I don’t, pups) the total forces deployed in theater under the “surge” are roughly one-third of the total US forces rotating through Iraq.
So we’re up to 67,000 US Army troops with PTSD symptoms.
And -
IF the Army can find psychologists who choose to join knowing they can be ordered off to assist Gitmo torture, and psychiatrists who will turn a blind eye to the DOD’s redeployment of acutely ill vets to combat duty -
- there will be 1,000 Army “psychiatrists, psychologists, and social workers” to treat 67,000 Army patients with PTSD symptoms.
A clinican : PTSD patient ratio of 1 : 6,700.
Even Kaiser of Northern California gives their psychiatrists – fully assisted by other mental health professionals – a caseload of around* 1,000 patients.
Those are ambulatory adults capable of working. Civilians in peacetime.
Treatment of one single patient with severe PTSD can require dozens – and sometimes hundreds – of clinician hours.
OK – in the DOD’s future Hire-in-Wonderland world, they’ll have 1,000 mental health clinicians inured to the prospect of assisting in torture.
Just the sort of compassionate clinicians you want for your sister, mother, or uncle, right?
And if all the compassionate 1,000 work eighty hour weeks for a year (no vacation) -
they’ll have 1.19 hours per PTSD patient.
Per year.
That’s not enough time to take a trauma history, let alone provide treatment.
NO time for follow-up.
See you in a year, soldier.
Next patient.
PS – Why I am having to calculate this for the AP? Are J-school grads no longer required to comprehend basic arithmetic, much less question “offical” announcemnts?
Why spend tens of thousands of dollars in J-school simply to transcribe Newspeak?
Surely “court reporter” training would give them the same skillset, and better training in reflexively jumping out of their seats when Power moves through the room.
_ _ _ _
(*or that’s what the recruiter said)
I sure hope the appeals process takes into account that Valerie Plame was Covert. If they try to argue that Sandy Berger was treated differently, I hope they are reminded that he pleaded guilty and showed remorse.
Fantasy Friday afternoon news dump.
Gonzo impeached for lying to Congress when he said he would only appoint people by Senate Confirmation.
I can dream can’t I….
The fact that we have to “wait and see” if justices will act in a fair and constructive manner in itself is the issue. And if they do not? What are the options?
Alvin’s been a bad boy.
sofistic @ 54
Snert!
We are so accustomed to being assaulted with a minimum of 3 outrages per day that when a new one doesn’t pop up by 12:00 pm, we start getting all nervy.
perris @ 50
I am scared to death of the directive, and of the fact that no one is apparently taking note of it. Why doesn’t congress react? This is clearly unconstitutional.
Indulge yourself in thinking about other stuff. Oh, yeah, did you know that the speed of sound in a solid is the square root of Young’s modulus over the density? (I’m in instrument making mode these days)
allan_in_upstate @ 60
Tasty!!
rwcole @ 51
Actually, RW, according to the Bible, having a king was another bad idea that the people came up with.
The prophet Samuel tried to tell them that: “These will be the ways of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and appoint them to his chariots and to be his horsemen, and to run before his chariots; and he will appoint for himself comannders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and some to plow his ground and to reap his harvest, and to make his implements of war and the equipment of his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and olive orchards and give them to his courtiers. He will take one tenth of your grain and of your vineyards and give it to his officers and his courtiers. He will take your male and female slaves, and the best of your cattle and donkeys, and put them to his work. He will take one tenth of your flocks, and you shall be his slaves. And in that day, you will cry out because of your king, whom you have chosen for yourself.”
Alas, the people told Samuel and God to stuff it and give them a king anyway, so they could be like everyone else. “OK,” said God, “if that’s what you really want . . .” [1 Sam 8]
Seems like Bush has the “king” part down pat. He’s probably got that passage memorized.
spurious @ 62
this entire dialogue should be sent to every congressman/women…regardless they might be democrat or republican
allan at 60 — Oh, those uppity women lawyers. *g* Serves the smarm-merchant right if that is the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
Mandrake @ 49
Well, I certainly didn’t vote for him, but a lot of people seemed to think that his “rescue” of the Winter Olympics somehow qualified him to run our little state. These people were, of course, wrong. They were also, alas, the majority and we were stuck with him for awhile.
But I digress. Hey, how about that Scooter guy? What a card.
Bleah.
spurious @ 62
I truly believe that directive works ONLY if no one knows about it. It is known here, other places on the web, AND in the halls of congress. People are not as big a flock of sheep as they sometimes appear. Folks know we survived the Civil War AND WWII AND the Cold War without stopping elections. Many individuals who appear to be on the Bush bandwagon would immediately jump off.
He may make the attempt. He will not succeed.
USAgate stuff:
LINK
LINK
kirk murphy @ 56
Kirk, great post. One nit. These soldiers have Stress Injuries. PTSD is a classification of a set of symptoms and so can be ignored, the cause of the symptoms can be argued, etc. The use of misleading terms like PTSD is one of the reasons the problem is so poorly addressed. Stress injuries may be more debilitating then amputations but those we can see and so they are addressed. Let’s take a small step towards getting the right resources on this problem by getting it properly classified.
I stay in touch with my southern relatives because their take on this country is so different from Liberal Land. They love Bush. I am told there is too much freedom of speech and we need less not more. We also need to put the Bible in the Constitution and that our country was founded on Christianity.
It is scary to hear from so many. From Texas to Louisiana they send me e-mails (trying to save me). This gives me an insight I couldn’t have otherwise.
My universe is so different from theirs but I think they are in the vast majority. Or maybe they are willing to play dirty in a way I’m not.
Mandrake @ 61
Maybe we should start a virtual board on this, betting (sans money) on the outcome of what feels psychically inevitable? Give the time of the Friday dump and what is being dumped.
I say 6:00 pm and another document dump from DOJ, something in relationship to the OIG since Waxman has a hearing about the independence of the OIG next Wednesday…what say you?
LS @ 57
Now the trick will be getting REP to listen to facts not talking points. I commented several weeks ago on a blog that called Fitzgerald a thug that Valerie Plame was COVERT and my comment never made it out of the modes.
Does anyone know whether there’s an active movement afoot to clarify the Authorization of Force- to make clear that it does NOT include Iran- and to require the King to come back to congress before droppin bombs on another country? Can anyone think of a reason NOT to make this clear? Why is it not job one?
We HAVE to listen to the Buchanan testimony!!! Where could we listen???? Linky anyone!!
dakine01 @ 69
the very attempt will destroy our republic, there will SURELY be a civil war
Peterr @ 65
Thanks for this quote. People choose their leaders and their god. Each reflects the inner most belief of the person.
LS at 76 — She’s meeting with investigators, which means it will be a behind-closed-doors conversation with staffers, most likely, and not a public hearing. They’ll want to find out what she does and does not kno, what she is and is not willing to tell them before they do a public hearing.
Sounds like the Mary Beth Buchanan thing is an “interview” to take place all day. Sounds like it is behind closed doors.
Peterr
Thanks for the quote.
Once ya get a King- ya might discover that it wasn’t what it was cracked up to be. Hell- I have.
LS @ 80
Yes, Behind Closed Doors. Sounds like a country song.
QuakerGirl @ 72
What part of “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s” do these people not understand?
Don’t even get me started on “what you do to the least of these you do also to me.”
There are good, committed and loving christians. There’s also a bunch of bedwetters and thumbsuckers yearning for the apocalypse.
Thanks Christy, I went and read the article and cross-posted with you. She certainly seems to be at the core of a lot of this from what I have read, and I hope we get to eventually hear some of her testimony.
And do not forget Janice Rogers Brown. Remember her? Isn’t it odd that all these hard ass right wing judges are showing up in spots like the DC Court of Appeals just when they’re needed? How conveeeeeenient.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 79
Oh nuts. Maybe I should change my bet to a plea for immunity from Buchanan by 5:00pm today…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 79
But wasn’t Buchanan part of the WH Bushie loyalist party? Will she tell them anything or will she be as evasive as the rest of them?
I had read she was shocked a couple of months ago that her name was being banded about for firing but will she be honest? I can’t imagine her hands are all that clean in the DOJ mess.
Bubba on C-Span 2 now.
dakine01 @ 41
Did you see “Lil’ Bush” Wednesday night on Comedy Central? it answered your question.
Biodun @ 31
It already has. I’m writing about value discourse, and the discussions here have helped frame some of my ideas.
portia.vz @ 85
Truly ugly sense of justice.
tommy yum @ 83
they are called “dispensationalists” and there is a clear movement
Bush is a dispensationalist
we should do an entire piece on the movement to offset their strategy
newtonusr @ 88
I could just cry comparing his presidency with the current one.
As one commenter said over on the Think Progress site, Bush just flipped the bird.
From Think Progress: LINK
perris @ 92
So, if we can’t impeach him, can we dispense of him??
Kyl blocks domestic surveillance subpoenas.
egregious @ 93
But, as correctly predicted by The Onion,
Bush ended the long national nightmare of peace and prosperity.
egregious @ 93
All things considered, we were a Democratic Republic back then.
dispensationalist
dakine01 @ 69
Hope you’re right, Dakine, but worry that the dems and others who are trying to play by the rules will be hamstrung by the tainted judiciary. They have been laying the groundwork for this for such a long time. But I still hope that you’re right.
Peterr @ 65:
That’s a really good one. Will be useful. Thanks.
realworld, I appreciate your conceputalization of “Stress Injuries”, and imaging modalities (MRI/CT) can show gross changes in cerebral volume. Moreover, functional studies (evoked potential studies, fMRI, PET) have shown PTSD correlated changes in CNS function which are often resistant to treatment.
As a clinican interested in policy issues, finding language to describe clincal concepts is always a challenge.
As an educator and activist, I’ve found teaching one concept at a time is most effective.
PTSD is a specific medical diagnosis; “Stress Injuries” is not a medical diagnosis.
After three decades, the term PTSD has widespread public recognition; “stress injuries” is so non-specific as to connote anything from repetitive strain disorder to jogging injuries to eyewitness for the towers’ collapse on 9/11.
So – while the term “Stress Injury” may well be of greater accuracy in describing the neurophysiology of PTSD – I do not find the term useful in educating the public – and the families of US troops – about the woeful numerical shortage of clinicians for those affected by PTSD.
Does anyone know if Condi is ever going to testify before Congress about the lead up to Iraq? I thought at one point, she was scheduled, but that seems to have disappeared.
egregious @ 93
agreed. but, i do think it is important to recognize that in many ways, his presidency set the stage and made the current one possible.
- continued presence of combat troops in saudi arabia, iraq sanctions and bombing campaign helped set the stage for 911
- nafta and economic imperialism via imf/wto
- media consolidation
- precusor to the patriot act
- massive increase in israeli settlers living on palestinian land in the west bank.
these are just a few
Just in case you weren’t sure where Fred stands on Choice, this may clear things up for you. From Think Progress: LINK
janda @ 90:
Good to hear. Is Pierre Bourdieu part of your biblio? (Also, be kind and give FDL some kinda credit in your end notes. *g*)
Tommy Yum says:
“What part of “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s” do these people not understand?
Don’t even get me started on “what you do to the least of these you do also to me.”
There are good, committed and loving christians. There’s also a bunch of bedwetters and thumbsuckers yearning for the apocalypse.”
QuakerGirl says:
They may be but they are a powerful force who should never be underestimated. Know how your adversary thinks and be careful not to dismiss him/her. As we dialogue a new “true believer” church is opening its doors for the first time with another rightwingnut hanging out a shingle as the preacher. And hundreds of people are drawn to it.
allan_in_upstate @ 60
Wow, this could get interesting!
The theory that Cheney is behind the push for a pardon makes sense. I doubt Bush gives a rip about Libby, he’s not part of the Texas gang. Libby’s a Cheney boy, and the entire effort to smear the Wilsons came from Cheney’s office.
Judge Silberman is probably camped out in the clerk’s office tring to fix the assignment wheel.
As to recusals, LOL if you think any of these Republicans first, judges second, will recuse themselves. Party always trumps country or the law for them. See Bush v. Gore, (SCt. 2000)
On the Kavanhaugh failure to recuse opinion, I note that here in Florida if a state court judge bothers to explain his or her denial of a recusal motion, it usually means they should have recused themselves, which means a reversal on appeal on the recusal issue.
astrol’s –
don’t want to get into posting about this too much – don’t want to feed neocon trolls – but anyone notice libby’s merc now transiting 12th (!) conj UR & poised to go Rx. (& in canc!)
interesting…..
mods: begging indulgence to chg my nick for this/these post(s)
GeorgeSimian @ 103
Waxman, I think it was him, sent her a letter delaying her scheduled appearance. It basically said that their investigations had turned up so much more information that they needed a delay to adequately prepare for her testimony. I think he’s using his own form of Psy Ops. *g*
Rick DeVille @ 68
Oh well, good for you to be rid of him now. MA Being one of the most progressive states in the Union, I just thought it was weird he ended up being guv of same.
Biodun @ 106
He’s not. I’m focusing exclusively on the works of Kenneth Burke.
Biodun @ 101
you took the words right out of my mouth, it is cut and saved to be used with excess
Christy,
Thanks for this!
Before this thread ends, I’d like to raise a question:
I’m wondering if this is a kind of smokescreen. That is, Cheney needs to reassure Scooter to keep him from flipping. So he leaks stuff like this to the press that might be total baloney, because of the legal jeopardy it might raise. Obviously, Cheney cannot communicate directly with Scooter about this, but a press leak is a convenient way to convey the message, even if it is all smoke and no fire.
What do you think of that possibility?
Bob in HI
Selise @ 104 – Exactly! Well said!
I wonder if ceheny ever donned a wig and did an elvis impersonation with that lip thing he has going on
janda @ 114:
Gotcha. Linguistic rather than sociological value. Best of luck with it!
AZ Matt @ 105
Abortion, ashmortion!
He’s got that Old Spice/Aqua Velva look. Oooooh, yeah, that’s what I’m talkin’ about, baby!
think progress;
kirk murphy @ 102
Kirk, my point really is that the fact that this has come to be known as a disorder rather than an injury has a lot to do with why the care of our soldiers is being so poorly managed. I think one could do a whole analysis around how the use of language has supported the neglect of mental health in general. Even the term “mental health” is misleading. It has connotations of the ephemeral. Thus, someone with a brain disease (other than a tumor) will generally get much poorer care than someone with heart disease or cancer. As long as we use language that makes it easy to mislead people, they will be misled by those with an interest in doing so. The fact that those in the know understand that PTSD is an injury and not something vague and undefined, doesn’t mean that most people will get this. (BTW: I am not criticizing your post. It was great!)
My real point is not to focus on Stress Injuries vs PTSD though I think that point is valid. My real point is that we need to understand the origins of the language we use because it shapes discourse. The rethugs understood this very well and used it as a tool to screw the country. I think PTSD is a (stealthy) example of this and wanted to point that out to make us all more self reflective. Sorry if I’m too philosophical with this.
sofistic @ 63
Are you saying that the GOPers don’t listen–or take years to hear anything– because their brains are spongey (low Young’s modulus, a sad result of Alzheimer’s) and leaden (high density)? But yes, the analogy of solids to Repub brains, even if only the density of teak, does work for me.
Bob at 116 — I think that’s a distinct possibility. Because I think it is altogether probable that Libby won’t be pardoned at all because he’s not in the W clique and, thus, W won’t give a crap about him. But Cheney has to at least publicly go through the motions of pushing so as to stay on the Libby good side. I still think that if a pardon is forthcoming at all, it will not drop until Bush is leaving office — because, frankly, the small number of Free Scooter brigades pales in comparison at the moment to the people who want him in jail combined with the people who don’t care about this case at all. But if he pardons early, suddenly a whole LOT of people start caring about the case…and Bush does not want that, because it would mean more media scrutiny of his role, Rove’s role, Armitage’s role and Cheney’s role in the whole mess, along with their conduct in the aftermath.
well. . . great stuff here, CHS!
my money bets on no recusals, at all (or
at least, we won’t learn of them) — fitz
has a strong-enough hand — he’ll play
the cards he’s dealt. just a hunch.
me? i’ve spent my morning reading — yes,
actually reading! — the d.c. court of
appeals handbook on timing for emergency
motions, post-conviction, in criminal
matters where an incarceration order
has been issued. . .
along the way, i found a picture
of the esteemed lawrence s. robbins, to
boot — it seems his summer vacation plans
have been scrubbed, no?
anyway — i think my light-reading will
be of some interest to the audience
here assembled — and it dovetails nicely
with your recusal discussions. . .
enjoy!
janda @ 112
Thanks for that. I don’t think she’ll show anyway, but she’s always good for a show. Best liar out there.
Mr. Contendere—
DC Court of Appeals handbook as light reading lol
My real point is not to focus on Stress Injuries vs PTSD though I think that point is valid. My real point is that we need to understand the origins of the language we use because it shapes discourse. The rethugs understood this very well and used it as a tool to screw the country. I think PTSD is a (stealthy) example of this and wanted to point that out to make us all more self reflective. Sorry if I’m too philosophical with this.
I think you are spot on with this. It is much the same way the estate tax, which had overwhelming public support, was turned into the death tax with overwhelming opposition to it. What we name things matters.
TheOtherWA @ 109
I disagree – Cheney & Libby were hot and bothered about Wilson but Rove was out to smear Wilson and Plame as well. Libby just got out in front and Rove let him run with it in my opinion.
Christy, that Comstock crack made me laugh out loud! Boy, I needed that!
Why would Mueller make such a statement?? Someone speculated in the comments in Raw that he’s trying to “telegraph” something. Put that together with the “the Directive”, and the fact that he’s been under the gun this last week, do you think he’s trying to point out the danger of not addressing the Directive? I don’t think he’s necessarily any more worried today about rogue nukes than anyone else has for the past 50 years. This is something else. JMHO
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0614.html
RedShift at 130 — I spewed my tea all over the place laughing about it earlier. I knew you guys would get a kick out of that. And it’s honest-to-goodness true. That’s the funniest part of the whole thing! The Faith and Values Steering Committee meets Barbara Comstock.
Bwahahahahahahahahaha!
pwright @ 129
If Rove were the one convicted, Bush would issue a pardon in a heartbeat. He’s holding back on Libby, for now.
I agree that Rove was in on the plan, but he hasn’t been caught. Yet.
Phoenix Woman upstairs
Christy Hardin Smith @ 124
I think Libby is hoping for a pardon but even if he doesn’t get one – Libby won’t fess up about Cheney. Cheney and his buddies are paying Libby’s tab. Even if Libby received a pardon he would still lose his law license and Libby needs a job when he gets out of prison. How does he guarantee a paycheck – keep his mouth closed and Cheney and friends give him a think tank gig.
pwright @ 129
Or, maybe Rove didn’t care so much about Wilson and Plame, maybe he set up Libby and Cheney – and it was only partially successful. Just turning it around and looking at it from different angles.
realworld, thanks for your thoughtful reply.
I could not agree with you more on the suffering resulting from the false “physical vs mental” dichotomy applied to CNS disease.
So much of my time with new patients (public health psych clinic) is spent explaining “the brain is just another organ”, just like thyroid/pancreas etc.
My very senior colleagues in psychosomatic medicine remembered and wrote of a time when cardiac disease elicited the same non-scientific/abiological dissonance currently evoked by psych diagnoses.
More recently, cancer diagnoses elicited the same non-cognitive responses.
Hope we all live to see full respect for – and resources for treatment of – all diagnoses in the medical speciality known as psychiatry.
Just another organ :)
GeorgeSimian @ 103
It was postponed by Waxman (or was it Conyers?) with a rather subtly snarky message about how they’re gathering other testimony now. Basically a warning that smaller fish are talking and they’ll be well-prepared for what questions to ask and will know if she tries to lie or cover up.
TheOtherWA @ 133
I think if Rove had been indicted Bush would have pardoned him the day after Fitzgerald’s press conference.
Had to step out — glad some of you liked the little story from Samuel. I’ve used it more than once myself, and it’s definitely an eyeopener for some folks.
egregious @ 127
erh — yes, light. . .
all my reading is light — like my thoughts. . .
and vacation should be where “vation” presently appears above. . .
Here’s the Word Press error message that fills my screen when I try to get http://www.firedoglake.com from my Opera browser.
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Error establishing a database connection
This either means that the username and password information in your wp-config.php file is incorrect or we can’t contact the database server at database.ziaspace.com. This could mean your host’s database server is down.
Are you sure you have the correct username and password?
Are you sure that you have typed the correct hostname?
Are you sure that the database server is running?
If you’re unsure what these terms mean you should probably contact your host. If you still need help you can always visit the WordPress Support Forums.
=========
This has persisted for about 2 hours. Is anyone else having this problem?
Is it strange for someone to go before a Grand Jury FIVE TIMES like Rove did? This still bothers me and if one of the FDL team has addressed this in the past, I missed it.
Does this make anyone else suspicious?
bonkers @ 143
the idea is you are able to correct your testimony so long as it doesn’t look like you are trying to prevent your own indictment
it’s obvious fitz gave special consideration to rove since it is clear rove kept going back to revue his testimony in order to avoid indictment
regarding fitz
does anyone know anything at all about the “sealed vs sealed”
was that ever released or acted apon?
I have a question for the lawyers . . .
I learned recently that Bush may not have to pardon Libby but he could commute his sentence until the appeal process is completed. That way Libby serves no time but Bush doesn’t take the political heat for a pardon.
Similar Geedub could grant a respite retaining Libby’s guilty verdict, but also keeping him out of the pokey.
Any comments?
bonkers at 143 — Take a peek at the reporting from the week of October 2 through October 9, 2005. We have talked about it a lot.
PS — Some FDL trivia. The Harriet Miers post of mine on 10/3/05 was, indeed, my very first post on FDL — back in the days when I was posting under my ReddHedd pseudonym. Ah, memories…
perris at 145 — As we’ve explained previously, there is no solid evidence that the sealed case has anything to do with Fitzgerald’s investigation, and as far as we have been able to ascertain, it is still sealed. It could be anything from a probate matter to a drug case to any number of other matters. And, unless and until we get some incontrovertable proof on the case, to what it pertains, or any solid information whatsoever, anything beyond that would be counterproductive speculation at best.
In short — no solid answers, but a lot of unsourced anonymously attributed stuff still hanging out there utterly unsubstantiated by any credible source that we have been able to track down and ask about it.
Sonoma at 146 — That’s a theory that was floated out by someone at the Corner recently. I haven’t found any particulars that substantiate it, but I’m still looking into it. Have been a little busy the last few days, but I’m going to try and find time to do some digging on it this weekend. Will let you knowif I find anything, one way or the other.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 148
got it…thanks for that, I actually thought we knew “sealed vs sealed” was part of the investigation, now I see that was just wishful thinking
you’re the bestest
Christy Hardin Smith @ 147
Thanks ReddHedd! that was right about the time I discovered all y’all, and my productivity has been declining ever since. At least my knowledge has been increasing at the same time, and after all, knowledge is power as they say…
mercresearch @ 111
Is an english translation of this post available?
QuakerGirl @ 72
Quakergirl,
I happen to believe that our government should serve under the principles of the Bible. Unfortunately, the Moral Majority, Christian Coalition and the likes have re-defined what that means in a really really bad way.
The Bible teaches the following principles with regard to government:
The government serves the people, leaders must be accountable, truth and justice must prevail for every person, etc. Stem cell research, same sex marriages, etc. are political issues with moral implications, not moral issues that should be legislated according to what a few believe the Bible teaches.
Tell your relatives that Bush will be judged by God as to how he conducted himself (did he tell the truth, did he govern justly, was he diligent and faithful in the execution of his responsibilities).
Maybe when God told Bush to end tyranny, Bush wrongly assumed “Republican” meant “the Republican Guard” and not the GOP.
mercresearch @ 111
Thank you JWoods.
The last time I had this omnious feeling was throughout the sixties when so many of the people we respected and admired were assassinated. I have that same feeling in the pit of my stomach.
In my world I am surrounded by people of similar values but when I head to northern Nevada I’m reminded again of another reality. My sense is that they are terribly frightened people, and people in a blind state of fear can be indiscriminately violent.
Not surprisingly, Mr. Kavanaugh takes a narrow view of recusal. He seems to be stuck using the standard for a practicing lawyer when deciding whether he or she can represent a new client: “Have I represented another client against this one on an identical or closely related matter?”
Mr. Kavanaugh’s past decision suggests that in his two or so years on the bench, he hasn’t yet mastered the standard applicable to judges, which adds an additional concern to those faced by a practicing lawyer (who’s role is as an admitted advocate). The judge, who is meant to be a neutral party, not an advocate, must also ask him or herself, “Would hearing this case present the appearance of impropriety” or an actual conflict?
It’s not hard to guess why. Mr. Kavanaugh is among the least qualified lawyers to sit on the federal bench, much less the appellate bench, much less the grand daddy of them all (barring the S. Ct.), the DC Circuit. His principal experience was as a Hill and WH staffer and former assistant to Ken Starr. His WH duties largely involved shepherding federal bench nominees through the confirmation process with an extraordinarily cooperative Republican Senate. He is a Tim Griffin-like protege, not an experienced former litigator, judge or general counsel.
None of which bodes well for his tenure on the DC Circuit, nor for his objectivity should he review issues in the Libby case.
The only silver lining I can imagine, should Shrub pardon Libby, is that the pardon does not require acceptance, it is an admission of having committed the underlying crimes, and it removes Libby from legal jeopardy on matters related to the pardon. Which means Libby would have no valid reason to plead his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination should he be asked to cooperate in a congressional or federal investigation.
The odds of Libby cooperating without compulsion, though, seem about as good as Shrub closing Gitmo before he leaves his playthings in the Oval Office and goes home.
One thing to think about re Kavanaugh: Given his prominent role in Starr’s
Court of Star ChamberOffice of Independent Counsel, one might be forgiven for thinking that he would — if he has a modicum of principle — be the one judge who is least inclined to think that the appointment of an independent proecutor-type is unconstitutional. It would at a minimum be a rich irony if he were to end up on a panel that ruled that a D.C. Circuit decision concluding that independent prosecutors are anathema to the Constitution.I find the outcome in the D.C. Circuit very difficult to handicap, especially since the panel composition can make such a difference in many cases. I’d like to think that most any panel would deny bail.
It stinks that the Dems didn’t fight harder to keep a pornographer like Kavanaugh off the bench. Lots of political hacks end up as judges, but promoting this fellow to a high position administering justice shows just how little Republicans actually care for the rule of law.