When I attended the opening of the Jose Padilla trial–can it be two months ago–I noticed two middle aged women in the small, packed Miami courtroom. I realized that for some folks public trials are a welcome alternative to Court TV, or even Dr. Phil and Oprah.
I tried to imagine how the two ladies, let’s call them Nancy and Maureen, might react to “this week in Padilla.”
“I’m sorry you missed the trial today, Maureen. The wife of one of the conspirators–they played a tape and Nahed, that’s her name. She’s the one married to Hassoun, yeah, rhymes with Sassoon, that’s how I remember it. Well Nahed said her husband knew their phones were tapped, but he blabbed anyway. I downloaded the story from that woman, you know, the one with brown hair from–right–Carol Williams, Los Angeles Times. Listen to this:
Hassoun’s wife, Nahed, commented to one caller — who phoned to convey suspicions that Hassoun was under surveillance — that “we know that the lines are always … always monitored, but Adham doesn’t care … he talks.”
“She said it Maureen, right on the tape! We heard it. Her husband had to sit through that. His name’s Adham–kind of like our Adam. Then there’s the one with the funny sounding name. Kifah Wael Jauyousi. Those two are older. They just have to listen. What are they thinking? Jose’s American– a citizen. Yeah, the short stock one, younger. He was locked up for more than three years–no lawyer. Yeah, he’s the one they accused of dirty bomb making, then something about gas stoves and blowing up buildings. Nothing ever came of that.
“I wish they were more attractive. Neither one of them looking anything like Michael Ealy or the dark handsome one on “Sleeper Cell”–Oded, yeah Oded Fehr.
“These three–or at least the two of them–they just loved to talk. There was one exciting part, they played. Here. Carol’s got it quoted:
“It’s gonna happen soon,” Padilla says in a deep, tough sounding voice. He left South Florida for Egypt 15 months later.
“That did sound ominous. But most of the time, it was a little hard to follow. Here’s how Carol described it:
The discussions played for the jury covered mostly logistic matters: how to get a satellite telephone to Muslim rebels in Chechnya, how to get money to would be holy warriors in the Middle East, how to move volunteers to Kosovo or Bosnia to help defend Muslims under siege by Serbian and Croatian Christians.
For the jurors, it was a global history lesson ranging back to the 1980s Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, involving complicated conflicts.
“Here’s what’s tricky Maureen. Muslims are rebels in Chechnya – fighting the Russians.
Remember when we were fighting the Russians? And these conspirators were helping them. Now I’m not on the side of the Muslims, but in some of these places like Bosnia and Kosova, they are, well, the underdog. No, I’m on the side of the Christians, of course. But, well, it’s not always black and white. Anyway, I’m taking notes for you, until you get better, but it’s hard to keep it straight. There’s the code business–this means that and that means this… That’s why I download Carol Williams. She helps me sort it out.
Prosecutors jumped from year to year and battle to battle in a presentation apparently aimed at providing the jury with a glossary of allegedly coded language, such as using the word “tourism” in the place of jihad, “getting married” for killed in battle, “green goods” for money and “iron” for weaponry.
“And their voices were gravelly and whispery. Can you imagine those poor FBI guys listening to almost a half million phone calls? They’ve been following the two older guys with the odd names since 1993. Fourteen years of listening to phone calls. Even for snoops that must get boring.
“Well, it turns out this Hassoun and Jahhousi, they kept trying to help Muslims all over the world Back in the 90’s we didn’t worry so much about them, remember? Carol says, yeah, the reporter, she says:
The overall effect of the rapid fire tour of the world’s hotspots might have been to show the jury how keenly Hassoun and Jayyousi followed the fate of Muslims under attack abroad and how passionately they sought to help them. The tone and language of the talks also may have left an impression that the men were trying to hide something and up to no good.
“Well Maureen, they may have been up to no good, but I sent money to Ireland around that time and it might have gone to buy guns. I just didn’t want to see my cousins over there getting killed, so I don’t know. Here’s what Carol says:
Assistant U.S. Atty. Brian Frazier walked the jury through each of the taped conversations by questioning FBI case agent John Kavanaugh about his understanding of the true meanings of the words.
Frazier and three other government lawyers prosecuting the trio have cast Hassoun and Jayyousi as the respective ideological and logistical leaders of a North American terrorist support cell in operation since the early 1990s.
“Okay Maureen, here’s the question. Were the two guys with the names part of a cell–a not very sleepy sleeper-cell since they were always up and talking on the phone, but part of a cell planning to blow up innocent people, maybe asking the younger Padilla to join them—or were they guys trying to help relatives and such outgunned in places like Chechnya and Kosovo? Should Padilla be grouped with them, even if he had a few talks with them– maybe seven calls out of all the thousands. They say Padilla was tortured. I’d say anything if they tortured me.
“Gotta go. Peppermint tea – that always helps with the flu. I’ll stay on top of the trial for you. Sure I’m going tomorrow. I wouldn’t miss it. Bye, Maureen.”
(With Rachel M. Koch)
Lew can be reached at lew dot koch at gmail dot com.
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zed?
Dos?
Tres?
OK, I’ll tell folks downstairs.
Bob in HI
Hey, Lew! Hi Bob.
Loo Hoo at 5
Hey Bob! Welcome buddy!
Sorry for the OT but for any one who may care, Tuckery won’t be around next week. Didn’t catch who will be in his place but maybe if everyone watches next week while he’s gone, Dan Abrams might get the message.
I ain’t holdin’ my breath on THAT happening.
What is this? What a weird and sexist way to write about the trial.
Sexist? How?
Really interesting post Lew, I think I have to read it twice! (shhhh…don’t forget to “close quotes”..:)
Lew, the LA Times link doesn’t work.
kvenlander at 8
Sorry you think it’s sexist. Ran it by four women before it went out. The dry phone conversations sometimes make you crazy. It’s like pulling teeth sometimes. This was my attempt at just a little humor. Sorry it died for you.
LS at 10
Thanks. Next week I have some astounding stuff from the trial. This was an experiment. Oh my God, it was an experiment, never, never to be repeated, I think.
Lew Koch @ 13
Lew, you rock!!!
Hi Lew-
Okay Maureen, here’s the question. Were the two guys with the names part of a cell–a not very sleepy sleeper-cell since they were always up and talking on the phone, but part of a cell planning to blow up innocent people, maybe asking the younger Padilla to join them—or were they guys trying to help relatives and such outgunned in places like Chechnya and Kosovo? Should Padilla be grouped with them, even if he had a few talks with them–…
That’s kinda what I was saying in one of your earlier posts – I just can’t chart this ‘conspiracy’ out as triangular.
Or maybe a better analogy would be that he seems an unnecessary (and unused?) third wheel on a two-wheel vehicle.
OT with apologies
Well the weekly schlock that passes for the NewsHour’s roundup with Devious Brooks and Befuddled Shields came and went again. They engage in a love fest over General Petraeus and how trustworthy he is re Iraq. After which, they admit that well violence is increasing. Somehow they see no contradiction between this and Petraeus’ optimism. Dimwits. Shields thinks that Peter Pace is a sympathetic figure. And so begins the beating up on Harry Reid. I disagree with Reid on a lot of stuff but questioning Petraeus and the surge or Peter Pace and his efficacy are reality based, something that Shields and Brooks seem totally disconnected from. They beat Reid up on immigration too although they admit that the bill’s second wind is largely illusory. Brooks grandly calls the Congress a failure, completely overlooking Republican obstructionism and general assholery.
Scooter Libby? Brooks sounds really pissed. He says Walton only talks about himself and how he’s standing up to “famous men”. It’s all about him, which goes to show that Brooks has been getting his info on the trial from the safety of the cocktail and wienie circuit he seems to inhabit. Shields finally shows some signs of waking up and talks briefly about obstruction of justice but it doesn’t last and he goes back to sleep.
Bottomline: Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.
Was Maureen Bob Shrum in drag?
Lew-
Here are couple of links for you to check out-
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18745529/
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2003/07/28/402/29866
http://www.law.buffalo.edu/ubl…..038;f=arts
http://r4.sharedcopy.com/1r5hcq3
This may have been the story that Mary was asking about- “getting married”, and perhaps at some later date you can explain it. I am totally confused at this point, not having followed the story.
What do the jurors think is what counts. (Unless someone pleads first, I figure.) Any idea what might be going on in their heads? An educated guess, gut feel, anything….
Thank you for this one Mr. Koch.
—
Oh my God, it was an experiment, never, never to be repeated, I think.
Don’t be hasty, on that. Some work for the reader, but….I’d try it again with some tweaking.
I have some acquaintances that are Muslim married to Christians (Serbian/Bosnian and Bosnian/Serbian). One of the guys, Muslim, was a great guitar player with a band over there before the war broke out so bad. He was arrested and put in a camp. Every day, for over a year, they were awakened and lined up outside their sleeping “quarters”. The guards would pick a prisoner and say, “pick a number between 1-10″, the prisoner was forced to choose a number. The guard, armed with the #, say 5, would go down the line and shoot ever fifth person in line. Every day. Is it a wonder other Muslims wanted to help? True story!
Hi Lew,
Would this be the correct link?
Lew, you had your snark on while writing this. I really liked this perspective – it helped me, listening to Nancy and Maureen chatting, understand the roles of the “players” in this.
Thanks, again, for keeping us up to date on this mockery of justice.
jayt T 15
EXACTLTY!!
Look it’s like hearing over and over and over Roberto Gonzales say, “I don’t remember.” This should have been a case to prosecute Jose Padilla for being what they said he was — a “dirty” bomber, or at least owning up to the second charge, blowing up high rise buildings. OK — that’s a hard fact. Now it’s CONSPIRACY.Which in this age of terror is becoming more and more like THOUGHT CRIME!
Think and you’re guilty, Mull it over. Guilty.
Contemplate. Off to jail.]
No it doesn’t parse. Which drove me to write it the way I did. I was…reaching for something, anything solid in all this phone conversation -jello.
Hugh @ 16
I watched that too. How much more irrelevant can the two of them get?
Lew- I didn’t think that the post was sexist. But, the info was hard to follow, for me.
Maybe you are just in overdrive. Kinda like a story from friend from times past who was abroad, waiting for his wife to join him after she finished her Ph.D. thesis. (pre-internet days). He went home for a holiday break to discover that she was trying to write her history thesis as an epic poem. True. [Kinda like, but only a bit ;)]
RevDeb, 24,
Grrrrrrrrrrr…..We need to attack, attack, attack back!!!
LS @ 26
Got any suggestions?
OT for your Friday News Dump – LINK
AZ Matt @ 28
And another one bites the dust. How many more until we get to Abu?
The women are like Maude in “Harold and Maude” who is fascinated by funerals, because on some level she relates it to herself (it’s all about us)…seeing other people go through worse things than we do by observing is oddly comforting. “It could have been me”. “There go I by the grace of God”.
RBG at 21
If I got the link wrong — a thousand thousand appologies. I cut and pasted and checked. But your note is correct.
Vally Girl at 18
The prosecution brought in some poor frightened guy who pleaded guilty to some alleged terrorism charges. His name was Goba. If his name had been John Walker Lindh and if could afford tough expensive lawyers — he’d never be in jail nor would any of the Lackawanna six or 8 or whatever
Beyond OT: I once heard Rosie O’Donnell talk about Melanie Griffeth’s speech pattern. She wanted a hot f**king dog for lunch.
My husband just called it ball. f**king. four.
RevDeb @ 27
Keep the truth up front. Valerie Plame was Covert. Pace (the right’s military hero) was fired. Gonzo lied to Congress when he said he would never appoint anyone without going through Senate confirmation. Things like that. Repeat, repeat, repeat, and get in their faces about it!!! Don’t let up, because they won’t.
Hold the presses: Chuck Schumer’s in a box at the Sox.
LS @ 30
as NPB would say, Ding!
Valley Girl at 25
I really appreciate the feedback. Yeah, I was reaching and I can see to someone who isn’t mired in the material (like I am) –well, I thought it was something…different. So, back to what I know best. Take numbers, exactly, and when appropriate, kick ass.
Thanks
RevDeb @ 29
How many janitors are working in DoJ?
Boston1775 @ 32
707
AZ Matt @ 37
Ha, ha, ha..!!! I’ll bet they’re leaving too. Depends on who gave them a bonus at X-mas!!
Reminded me of Monty Python: two women on the park bench: “Busy day?” “Busy day!! I flushed my budgie down the loo!!” “Flushed your budgie down the loo?!” etc. I don’t remember it, but a friend’s son had it down perfect. Might not have been PC, and of course all parts played by males, but good fun.
or
Apparently people pulled up chairs to watch executions during the French Revolution: women were said to put the time to use by knitting. (Is this all hearsay via Dickens?) One woman steps out, then comes back and asks what she missed.
I liked it.
and thank you Lew for continuing your coverage of this trial. I find it to be fascinating, and hugely important. (and I don’t see it being covered anywhere else, so thanks again).
The admin knows that it can never bring most of its detainees to trial in real United States courts, because any competent court would automatically exclude “admissions” which have become, almost by definition, tainted and unreliable. This case brings to light that the Bush policies with regard to his “enemy combatants”, and their treatment while in U.S. custody, has come to mean that even the real terrorists, the ones who truly are a danger to us, cannot be convicted.
If Padilla walks away from this one, the right wingers *might* realize that the torture administration and its torture policies, has actually made them less safe, by way of making truly dangerous persons un-prosecuteable.
Suzanne at 35
YOU ROCK! I had wanted these women to be intelligent and curious, enough to come to the trial and see for themselves. They had questions — could these people be guilty — it’s kind of confusing. There’s a lot of talk — but no there, there.
I wanted them to be like I hope the jury is. Wondering, wondering. And if not convinced BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, then find him not guilty.
What do I really know for sure about Padilla and the others? I only know they had plans.
Period.
““I wish they were more attractive. Neither one of them looking anything like Michael Ealy or the dark handsome one on “Sleeper Cell”–Oded, yeah Oded Fehr.”
Pretty much says it all.
OT Rachel on Countdown re the pardon for Scoots.
Lew, I’m thinking of finding a trial to follow this summer.
OMG!
Brilliant post.
The point is well taken.
Rachel re: the right wingnuts talking up a Scooter pardon “they’ve decided that this is the hill they’re gonna die on” BWA HA HA HA
RevDeb @ 44
Yup. She’s pointing out what a cruel person he can be.
jayt at 41
Face. Yes, in the end it come down to face, the public humiliation is more terrible than the lies and deceit that only holds the flood back one more day, one more minute. Anything to postpone what is inevitable
behindthefall @ 40
Madame DeFarge from A Tale of Two Cities
I’m liking the fact that Rachel is showing up more often on Countdown.
More like that please.
It’s like when the Mujahadin were our friends, according to Ronnie. And then some of them morphed into the Taliban. Etc.
WTF?
AZ Matt @ 28
I was just wondering what the dump would be this week, thanks.
Woodhall Hollow @ 52
Or like when Noriega was our friend in Panama until he wasn’t anymore…
Now, she’s pointing out his lawlessness. It’s about Bush and Cheney she’s saying. She thinks the pardon is going to happen fast.
Hmmmm. I don’t know. I think W will distance him from Cheney and Libby and try to leave Cheney holding the bag and the guilt for Libby going to jail (which he also so deserves) as the Darth that he so is.
Bush is trying to go back to the image of BBQ Bush.
Speaking of which, what ever happened with the Bandar Bush $$$ deal?
Woodhall Hollow at 52
John Stewart was brilliant, last night (I think it was)
He had Tony Snow saying something like — I never said that. The he had a clip of Tony Snow a few months earlier saying exactly what he said he hadn’t said. Stewart had the two Tony Snows side by side. One of them was an outright f***ing liar.
Welcome to Bush World.
Woodhall Hollow @ 52
There an interesting book out called “Charlie Wilson’s War”. It’s a true story about how we armed the “freedom fighters” in the Afghan/Russian war.
Soon to be a movie starring Tom Hanks.
RevDeb @ 51
Hear, Hear! I like the rapport Rachel has with Alison and Keith – where is the latter rascal – maybe on vacation?
Lew Koch @ 56
Crooks and Liars at you service.
LS at 55
I didn’t before. I didn’t think Bush would be crazy enough to pardon Libby. But now, I think it will be his final F*** You to the 80 percent of Americans who believe Bush was wrong, deliberately wrong.
Arca @ 57
Kewl!!!
And, Lew. Thanks. Your posts on the Padilla trial are first rate. There really is no other way for an ordinary person to understand what is going on in the trial, and what the background is. There are some extraordinary people who have a wider grasp of the background, like yourself and Mary (hi Mary/ Mary4!) but very, very few.
RevDeb at 59
Yes! Yes! If you haven’t seen this — it’s worth the price of admission.
Lew Koch @ 31
If folks refresh their browsers, it looks like the LA Times link has been fixed.
Lew Koch @ 56
It’s been quoted before today but there is this amazing exchange via Froomkin from Snow’s press briefing:
Lew Koch @ 60
Lew, I tend to agree with you and interested in what time frame the pardon might unfold. Think Scooter will have to wait in prison very long, if at all?
drive by=
lew, i liked this post!
sexist? not if you know people like them……..call it a character study.
thought it was well written…..i thought it was funny, matter of fact, while reading it i thought what great dialogue!
but i’ve been following your posts, so for others, may have been harder to follow if you aren’t up on the case at all……but then, there are many posts here that if you aren’t up on it, you miss that part in the middle. can’t write everything every time.
write how you want, you’re the one signing your name to it.
RevDeb @ 59
707 … yup.
Valley Girl at 62
It’s what makes this so very different from any other journalism I’ve practiced. There are people here who think I got some thing wrong — and they chunked in a whole bottom of information that needs to be out there. And yeah, Mary is tremendous. And all of you — even if I fall on my ass, you guys kinda nod and smile.
newspaperbrat @ 58
Allison said he WILL be back next week.
Do ya think some folks at MSNBC recognize that we have withdrawal without our nightly fix of Keith’s snark?
Lew Koch @ 60
Lew, you could be so right on. He is very difficult to predict. The only thing I think I have noticed is that when he says something, or decides something, he never, ever changes. I just think back to his comments at the time of the beginning of the investigation. I don’t know. I do think he will attempt to take out the remainder of the Axis of Evil. He means what he says, and he’ll fire anybody who gets in his way. He is much more ruthless than we even imagine, I’m afraid. On the other hand, I’ll bet he’s real nice and charming in a social situation, which is is trickery. So much of politics and diplomacy is enacted in that setting.
Arca @ 57
Charlie Wilson was the CIA guy who ran the operation to arm the mujahadeen in Afghanistan. IIRC, he also warned them about blowback.
LS @ 71
Just after the original verdict, Al Kamen in his “In The Loop” column set up the “Libby Pardon Game” calling for predictions on when Bush would issue the pardon. I still stand by mine of 12/24/08. Winner to receive a t-shirt iirc.
Oh, and Little Boots is a classic bully.
So. Are we to conclude the whole Padilla thing is ridiculous and merely propaganda?
Lew Koch @ 56
Hilarious, it’s up over at Crooks and Liars.
LS at 71
Richard Nixon was, at times, certifiably insane. Rick Perlstein will be coming out with a book called “Nixonland.” It will become, I think, a “best and the brightest” of Nixon and his years. But Perlstein finds the origins, from the hard-scrabble life, a demanding unloving mother, a father who was a loser. So you take it all in — and Nixon, thanks to Rick’s work, becomes understandable.
I think with Bush it will be a man who was totally unfit for anything. He was a loser before he ran for public office and once there, remained a loser.
Look for the book (half a year, maybe)
newspaperbrat @ 58
Well, David Schuster came back from his honeymoon this week, wouldn’t it be cool if Keith does the same next week?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 74
Hey OKK: I thought of you,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBk-Z76BU8A
“Libby Pardon Game” calling for predictions on when Bush would issue the pardon. I still stand by mine of 12/24/08. Winner to receive a t-shirt iirc.
I’ll take November 5, 2008. The day after election day, Guy Fawkes Day, and my birthday (an anti-birthday present seems appropriate for a day which pisses me off more every year).
Oklahoma kiddo @ 74
I don’t think it is entirely propaganda. Just 95% of it. Remember, Padilla was the dirty bomb guy, only without the dirty bomb. He has been in lock-down for for how long? At least 5 years. Now they are trying to stick him with being the third wheel on a two wheel conspiracy, as someone above commented. It is so hard to believe anything the Feds say about GWOT, that no one knows what is really true.
Oklahoma kiddo at 74
“ridiculous and merely propaganda?” No. Padilla is a perfect symbol of what went wrong with the administration at the very beginning. Bush was lost without 9/11. Talk about there being no there, there, he was, in his own mind, a giant, like the man who landed on the flight deck of the carrier, big, big balls out kinda guy, a hero for our time — which is mostly television and film drama.
He tried to force his faux world view on the world, and the world collapsed around him.
The simple fact of the matter is that Bush, our prez, was and is, an indulged, spoiled rich brat given to throwing many temper tantrums. He’s not a very complicated person. This man Bush is way over due for a good sound spanking. And a huge ‘time-out’ afterward.
Lew Koch @ 76
I really would like to read it. I don’t think Bush is anything like Nixon though. He is the son of a very powerful, wealthy oil family with an agenda. He wants to mascarade as a Texan, but his spirit is not Texan (IMHO). He is an “imposter” of himself. No one else in his family speaks with the same accent, just listen to Jeb or anyone else in his family (he has 3 other brothers and a sister…the average American doesn’t even know that!) He has the business history of a loser. He has skipped out of the difficult roads in his life. He is ruthless. I don’t think he is stupid, just in denial of himself, and dangerously so for the entire universe. We will survive him, I’m convinced, but it won’t be easy. I liken him to others in history, but I’m not going there; because he is, afterall, a unique individual.
SeamusD at 80
Yes, Padilla was somebody when this band of bandits took him into their midst. He would have tried to do anything to engender more of that kind of “love” — yes, even murder. He had murdered before and it hadn’t even been a stretch, merely the application of his boots to a man lying unconscious in the street. No biggie, was far as he was concerned. He was –IN HIS MIND — willing and wanting to go as far as he could. But his mind was small and twisted and not very capable. He wanted to do great harm and all he would do, in the end, is be a loser.
I just hope that Bush’s last big F U isn’t when he refuses to step down in ‘08 after another big terrorist attack.
Okay. I am feeling a little paranoid today.
But with good reason damn it.
Lew,
Yes, I was there during the Nixon years. I’m sure that Nixon relied on sycophants to prop him up.
What seems so different about “Bush the loser” is that from the get go, he was the empty vessel for the neo-cons and corporatists and the war-mongers to profit, to rise to unchecked power, to destroy all good for the benefit of ego and money.
I have wondered if our prez’ behavior is due to a touch of fetal alcohol syndrome along with his own alcohol problem.
Mary McCurnin @ 85
That won’t fly. We will MAKE him step down. 300,000,000 to, what 20 serious Neocons…this is when I’m really glad we have the 2nd Amendment. I’m serious. I do not believe it will come to that at all, but if we didn’t have it, I think your scenario would be more possible.
LS @ 78
I really like this. ;0)
LS @ 88
There’s more than just the twenty neo-cons. There’s also all the Xtianist base (blackwater et al) and the mouth breathers who still worship commander codpiece. Although declaring martial law and suspending elections will get the attention of some number we will be a much larger crowd…
dakine01 @ 90
Ah, but my dears you are forgetting about blackwater. We must factor them in. Small in number but lethal in attitude.
Dakine10, Blackwater may turn on the “unbelievers or non-cooperatives”, but our own military would stop Blackwater instantly. I’m am convinced of that. They would never turn on our citizens.
Bush will not pardon Libby. He doesn’t want it, Cheney doesn’t want it, and of course Rove doesn’t.
Why?
As soon as it happened Scooter’s fair game for questioning again and he couldn’t plead the fifth.
If he does on his way out, I hope Obama/Hillary/Gore/whoever, has the balls to open an investigation.
None of this “forgive for the good of the country, time for healing” crap.
If we had held Nixon responsible maybe we wouldn’t be where we are now.
Mary McCurnin @ 91
I’m not forgetting or discounting blackwater. But they’re not THAT organized nor are they doing such a bangup job in Iraq themselves. They can be countered. It’s one thing to go into a NOLA with some mercs amid total chaos. It’s a totally different thing to try to tamp down all parts of the country in an uprising and restoration of the constitution.
who resigned? was there a news dump I missed?
LS @ 92
As well as a lot of veterans and a lot of honest cops…
omg. Elston resigned.
TiredFed @ 95
Elson I think his name is. DoJ deputy involved with the firings.
Arca @ 93
Yes. The Dem contenders better wise up about that now. Don’t come to us with some new age, hocus pocus, we all love one another, love heals and we’re all one nation in love and forgiveness crappola. They will need to order the surgery for the good of the nation to save it, like it or not, or they won’t make it.
Arca at 93
“…Obama/Hillary/Gore/whoever, has the balls to open an investigation…”
More likely, I think is what you also noted
forgive for the good of the country, time for healing” crap.
It worked for Dick
dakine01 @ 96
I guess I just worry about if the general population would really turn out. I would hope so.
And you are right about the NOLA situation. Cowards.They spent a lot of their time there killing dogs.
gonna have to go over the DOJ docs for how many times Elston’s name comes up. wanna bet it’s over 1,000?
TiredFed @ 103
no! lol.
bill moyers got out his sledgehammer about the libby verdict tonight…….played whack-a-mole with it, and they’re all dead……..
west coasters-is a must see, east coasters,i strongly urge all of you to find it on pbs website and watch it when available……..wow what fun……glad i taped it, going to watch it again and again…….
the libby segment is at the beginning.
Elston yahoo link here
- A senior Justice Department official who helped carry out the dismissals of federal prosecutors said Friday he is resigning.
Mike Elston, chief of staff to Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty, is the fifth Justice official to leave after being linked to the dismissals of the prosecutors.
TiredFed @ 103
He was there since 1999. He obviously got all twisted and tangled along the way. Wonder why?
Mary McCurnin @ 102
I would be far more worried if the Net didn’t exist AND the info on that signing directive weren’t out in the world. The secrecy aspect of Little Boots being able to suspend all laws is one thing but it’s not a secret any longer. The world (and even Congress) are aware of it. And since we made it through the Civil War, WWII AND the Cold War without any need to suspend elections and stop the world] as we know it, it would not fly. Combined with the way Littloe Boots is going and how incompetent he has shown himself in all ways, he would have a very limited cadre of support if he attempted to stop things and stay in office. TOO many people are counting the days until he leaves office.
Eureka Springs @ 106
I must say that your ability to link has gone kismet.
Breaking news…
Supreme Court reverses Bush v Gore
In a suprsing move today, Kennedy, O’Connor, Rehnquist (in spirit) Scalia, and Thomas.
said that “mistakes were made” and
that their decision was politically motivated.
With Bush at 29%, they have decided that
our democracy in its “last throes” and have
issued a retro for Gore….
Gore will take office on July 4th….
Our nightmare has finally ended….
Bay State Librul @ 111
707 linky? /s
Bay State Librul @ 111
sure, rub it in ;)
dakine01 at 109
For your reading pleasure
In the Name of National Security — Unchecked Presidential Power and the Reynolds Case by Louis Fisher, a brilliant historian and a lovely writer. Fisher, by the way, filed an amicus brief in the Padilla case early on.
Bay State Librul @ 111
Dreams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogeV4mpx0Lo
Valley Girl @ 110
Why thank you, great motivator..)
tw3k @ 113
I do not believe my party is doing the job. I am angry with the Democratic Party.
dmac @ 105
could it have been what Marcy posted earlier tonight at TNH?
Larry Tribe doing a number at a Harvard DC alum lunch. CSPAN airing now – from earlier today lunch.
Whew, Lew, I almost missed you!!! Let me extend a heartfelt Mahalo for your efforts, Lew!!! It is disheartening to see the lack of attention paid to this trial by the MSM, you really provide the Lake with an astounding and invaluable source of knowledge!!! Mahalo Nui Loa!!!
LS @ 30
Good analogy. My first reaction to
was that it might have been one of us! :~)
I do not want Obama or Hillary.
dakine01 @ 109
Just remember what happened in NY when Rudy suggested canceling the election and staying in office because of 911. It didn’t fly.
Arca @ 117
I’m with Barney Frank
“The real Romney is clearly an extraordinarily ambitious man with no perceivable political principle whatsoever. He is the most intellectually dishonest human being in the history of politics.”
Bay State Librul @ 125
I’m proud he’s one of our reps!
Phoenix Woman Up
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..the-media/
CTuttle at 121
Hey, I missed you! If I had a translation I’d be even happier!
I never thought it would come to pass that I not only would have to fight the Republicans, but my own party as well. Democrats in DC and elsewhere, make no mistake, I am up for the fight.
RevDeb!! He did??? OMG. I never heard that until right now.
“Just remember what happened in NY when Rudy suggested canceling the election and staying in office because of 911. It didn’t fly.”
The fact that he would even suggest such a thing should be repeated until people realize what a power monger he is. He is not a nice guy.
revdeb at 119
YEEEEESSSSSSS! that’s it!!!!!!!
EVERYONE, go read the link revdeb provided to marcy at 119
will only take a minute, is worth it.
is one of the most eloquent smack downs i’ve ever heard…bill moyers about the libby trial…she has the transcript to bill moyers from tonight.
he said libby “poured poison into the drinking water of democracy”
yep
thanks revdeb, man, i love this place.
Lew Koch @ 128
Sho’nuff, Mahalo, Thank you, Mahalo Nui Loa, Thank you very much!!! *g*
dakine01 @ 70
Actually, I kinda like the way Alison does snark. She’s good! IMHO, YMMV, etc.
Bob in HI
ironranger @ 87
What kind of touches do you have in mind? I know something about FAS. You can catch me over on Facebook. I’m about to leave work for shopping and then home. By then, a new thread will be up.
Bob in HI
Lew Koch @ 81
The fakery of it isn’t entirely a Bush construction.
I watched the McLaughlin Group this evening and they showed a poll which had Giuliani and Clinton significantly ahead in their party races.
It’s very confusing to me. In both cases there are a lot of people who say they detest these folks. So, who IS supporting them?
Supposedly Giuliani and Clinton are Conservative and Liberal (though those labels hardly fit them). The thing I notice about them which stands out the most is some kind of pop culture charisma and star quality — though it’s almost entirely made from the stuff of modern television and public relations campaigns. I mean, what does “America’s Mayor” really mean? And, what difference does it make to us to have a woman (and former First Lady) as candidate for president? Do Republicans even know Giuliani is Pro-Choice on abortion while his party is distinctly Pro-Life? Why is there no disconnect? And, was Bill Clinton THAT great, so that his wife has to be considered an automatic shoe-in? I really don’t see how that makes sense after we’ve just seen how George W. Bush was so clearly different than his father George H. W. Bush. Haven’t we noticed each individual is different?
How does that play into the way the electorate picks a party or a candidate to put into power?
To focus more narrowly: I also wondered about the race between Clinton, Obama and Edwards. Why is Clinton ahead in this poll? How do Clinton and Obama different from John Kerry? Just what is it which distinguishes these folks? Are there any differences? And, why is the American electorate picking candidates so far to the Right when they say in survey after survey that they want us out of Iraq and they want Social Security and health care reform and all kinds of more Liberal things? Why is the candidate they vote for to the Right of their governance position? Can they not distinguish Clinton & Obama from other more lefty candidates? Do they all blur together, so that only the party labels and the candidate’s appearance & presentation distinguish them?
Can only a rock star politician win?
Are Americans brain-washed into thinking that only a candidate the media turns into a star is really capable of winning or governing? If they do they’re certainly putting the power to select our leader into the hands of the media (spelled M O N E Y).
I’m beginning to think there is the party of money as represented by those whom the media promotes and the party of everybody else.
When does the public get to have the governance they really want?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 123
Pray tell, what do you find offensive about them or lacking in comparison to someone else?
I fear the electorate only knows the rock star of each political party and doesn’t know there are any other differences between the candidates.
Nice projection but, since you don’t know anything about them, they’re just as likely to be reporters as you are. Or trial lawyers. Or bloggers. Or civil rights workers. Or women just interested in what their country is up to. Sexist, indeed.