Someone once observed that watching the Bush/Cheney regime conduct its global war on terror is like witnessing multiple, simultaneous trainwrecks in slow motion. Despite all the warnings that this misleading framework distorts reality and could lead to disaster, Team Bush just blows by the stop signs and continues until it crashes into reality, causing one catastrophe after another. The destruction caused by this flawed policy framework is strewn all over the Middle East — Lebanon, where Bush and Condi Rice foolishly encouraged Israel’s ill conceived war against Hezbolla but managed only to weaken the Lebanese government, Iraq, and now Palestine.
For months, we’ve been watching the endless trainwreck in Iraq, where instead of applying the brakes, reversing or even switching tracks, the President forced his generals to add more locomotives and passenger cars for a “surge” that was supposed to make everyone safer and provide a context for reconciliation. Story after story this past week suggested the surge is not working, that we’re planning an endless occupation, that the Iraqis are making no progress on benchmarks and that violence has not declined but merely shifted, while US casualties continue to mount. On PBS’ Newshour last night, New York Times reporter Edward Wong explained that the warring factions are now just waiting for the US to leave so that they can have the final battles for total victory each believes is now within its grasp. Blowing up mosques on both sides will only make each side more determined.
Now another predictable trainwreck has occurred in Palestine, where the militant Hamas forces in Gaza overwhelmed forces loyal to the Palestinian President’s Fatah party, effectively splitting control of Palestine and threatening a wider civil war. It’s not clear whether either Israel or the US sought this outcome, but it does seem the inevitable result of a flawed policy that viewed Palestinian factions as either “moderates” (Fatah) who can be talked to or “terrorists” (Hamas) who can only be suppressed or killed. From Glenn Kessler’s WaPo article:
. . . analysts said yesterday that this strategy of dividing the moderates from the extremists — which was the core of Bush’s 2002 speech — proved ineffective and may have led to the dilemma facing the administration.
“The less we try to intervene and shape Palestinian politics, the better off we will be,” said Robert Malley, an expert on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict with the International Crisis Group. “Almost every decision the United States has made to interfere with Palestinian politics has boomeranged.”
Starting from its flawed “moderates vs terrorists” framework, the Bush Administration seized upon the absurd notion that the way to handle the proud but historically repressed and now well armed, well trained and very angry Palestinians was to isolate, humiliate and strangle them into submission. It did this by organizing financial boycotts and encouraging the Israelis to withhold Palestinian tax revenues as a way to punish the Palestinian President’s willingness to work with Hamas. In Bush/Cheney’s delusional world a “starve and humiliate” policy would convince Palestinians to reject the terrorist faction. But the most predictable outcome of humiliating people is that the most militant of them will rebel and overrun the weaker “moderates,” especially if those moderates are viewed as collaborating with their enemies who are humiliating them. Could anything have been more predictable?
Any rational person could have predicted that such a policy would simply unite the population against the US and Israel, weakening Israeli security and destroying what little remaining influence the US might have had as an honest broker. As we’ve learned in Iraq, when you treat people like terrorists, some of them start to believe you and act accordingly. But there is no one left in the Administration who can hear these counter arguments, and none of the Presidential front runners in either party gets it either, so the Bush/Cheney regime continued full speed down this deadend track.
We will never know what Hamas might have done if treated differently, because US policy has done everything it could to isolate Hamas and punish anyone who worked with them. Because Fatah agreed to work with Hamas, the US supported Israel’s refusal to turn over Palestinian tax revenues, now totaling over $500 million, effectively preventing the government from providing essential public services. It did nothing to discourage the Israelis from intruding into Gaza, undermining civil authorities. It dissed Saudi efforts to create a unity government, and did nothing to support Egyptian efforts to bring about ceasefires, even when it became clear that the Palestinians were sliding towards the civil war that Jordan’s King Abdullah had warned about last winter.
But the critical step was the first one: refusing to recognize Hamas as legitimate, even though Hamas won the January 2006 elections that the US urged them to hold, and then insisting that Hamas meet conditions that should have been the subject of negotiations rather than preconditions for starting talks. The US and Israel argued that the Israelis should not have to negotiate with Hamas until Hamas renounced violence and acknowledged Israel’s right to exist. Hamas refused to do so explicitly but agreed at one point to be part of a Palestinian government that would uphold previous agreements between the PLO and Israel, an implicit but ambiguous recognition.
Such semantics can be important face saving mechanisms between distrustful opponents, and wiser heads in another era might have seen this as an opportunity to begin discussions that might eventually bring Hamas to a better understanding of the benefits of talking. We will never know. Israel was not willing to save the face of those raining rockets on its settlements, and Hamas was not willing to forego whatever leverage and self pride the rockets provided, and so a possible opportunity to avoid the far worse violence to come was missed. Missed opportunities look pretty good in hindsight.
US policy has always honored Israeli insistence on recognition, but one can also understand the Palestinian view that Israeli governments can be just as stubborn in refusing to renounce violence against them or to recognize the Palestinians’ right to an honorable existence. Those who are irrevocably committed to violence and eliminating the other are not confined to one side. But for everyone else, wiser heads — in a less reckless US administration — would have seen that these are precisely the matters both sides should be discussing and not fighting about.
AP Photos Hatem Omar, MaanImages
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Good morning, pups!
Please explain to me what the rest of the surrounding states have done to help this situation?
“woof”
Funny, I think the Bushies would have called this post “Bush’s Train Rocks.”
Just read a great piece on the ME at TheWashingtonNote
http://www.thewashingtonnote.c…..002182.php
Kathryn in MA @ 1
Yo Kathryn, pups! Gotta nice hot cuppa joe for ya ovah heah.
(and I don’t mean Joe LIE, either)
Morning everyone. Sun rising to a clear blue sky here in coastal northern California.
How much more depressing can the ME news get? Oh, maybe don’t ask.
Good post, Scarecrow.
Another part of the problem, seen throughout Bush policy from Day One, is their bullshit claim that they want to spread Democracy while supporting undemocratic regimes in places like Saudi Arabia, and at the same time, alienating the populations of democratic countries making it impossible for their leaders to support the US.
Look at their policy with Iran, which continues to strengthen the (democratically- elected) conservatives there by increasing their public support. Or look at France, where they went around screaming about Old Europe with contempt, and then cried when they didn’t get their support at the UN. It’s the same across the board.
Good morning Scarecrow!
They have made a mess of nearly everything, haven’t they?
ruffian @ 5
Thanks for the link.
Good morning gang.
raven — my understanding is that the Arab states have tended to encourage the assimilation of Hamas into the government framework. Whether they believed this would make Hamas more “moderate” or thought it was just wiser to keep your enemies closer, I do not know. But I’m suggesting there was a choice a year ago and we chose isolation. We emphasized that Hamas was designated a “terrorist” organization who should not be accommodated in any way. It seems the policy has failed and we now have chaos.
egregious @ 10
“They didn’t mean to.” — Monica Goodling
You hit the nail on the head — it is almost impossibly painful to watch all this all-too-predictable ME catastrophe unfold … and we are still in the early stages with another 18 months of ignorant and incompetent “diplomacy” in the area. How is it even possible that 29% of the American people can listen to the bellicose threats regarding Iran and still approve of this clown’s performance.
Good morning to all!
Scarecrow, I have read hundreds of articles or analysis on this matter. Yours is certainly among the very best. Both in knowledge and clear and logic description. Thanks.
Breaking News…
Cheney pardons Libby… goes over the
Decider’s head… said he listened
to Ron Christy on Hardnuts last night and
is convinced that Libby is innocent…
Tony Snowjob will discuss the matter in
his daily sideshow…
Scarecrow @ 11
Thx.
The Bush Doctrine: Humiliate them and they will bow before you.
Its almost too depressing this morning.And for some reason Gonzo’s latest trick just sets me off.
Why cant the Dems do much of anything?
Bay State Librul @ 15
This is a joke, right?
Scarecrow,
The NYT reporter on yesterday’s PBS Newshour was Edward Wong.
Fern @ 19
If you get a chance listen to Christy
last night… he is the most fucking
stupid, arrogant, syncophant that I’ve
ever seen… He makes Gonzo look good
scarecrow – are you saying that hamas reps weren’t willing to talk? i don’t think that’s quite right (iirc, it was that they weren’t willing to state that israel has a “right” to exist as a precondition for talks)… and hamas had have a long cease fire, that couldn’t be sustained after repeated israeli attacks.
Good Morning, Scarecrow & pups
I didn’t think it was possible for us to make it even worse between Israel and the Palestinians. I was wrong.
Bay State Librul @ 21
I heard him and was shocked and amazed that anyone would be that ignorant and left unchallanged
Alex S. @ 20
Ah, thank you. I’ll fix it.
Ah.
The fecund odor of Israeli Mole and Iran-Contra Thug . . . Elliot Abrams.
O/T: Scarecrow, What’s the update on same-sex marriage. I picked up a Boston Globe yesterday, but it was about a conservative who might have a change of heart. What’s the word in Mass?
Hamas has widely advertised its mission to destroy Israel for over ten years. It has systematically fostered genocidal hatred of Zionism and Jews, worldwide. It has put guns and demonization in the hands and heads of a full generation of Arab Palestinians. Now it seeks to harvest its returns on this investment. If you supported the isolation of South Africa for its racism, you should be supporting the isolation of this reckless, irresponsible, murderous gang of hooded fanatics.
Ron Christy is so awful that when I see him on Hardball, I simply turn off the t.v. Something wrong with his eyes too. A complete moron. He makes anyone next to him look like a genius.
If you supported the isolation of South Africa for its racism . . .
hmph. Israel’s bestest buddy.
mui @ 27
The dark side of the force was defeated. The Legislature needed 50 votes to move the constitutional amendment to the ballot but could only get 45. To same-sex marriage is not safely legal for years to come in Massachusetts. A huge victory.
I’ll check today’s Boston Globe.
Elliott @ 23
i’ve read several reports of the usa arming fatah inorder to counter hamas…even though, or maybe because, hamas won the last election. (i will go looking for links)
it seemed that usa policy was to push for palestinian civil war – i just think the expected outcome was for hamas to lose… so far, it doesn’t look that way. but, so long as palestinians are fighting eachother – they can’t fight israeli oppression or the theft of their land… maybe that outcome is considered a “success” in DC.
Boston Globe coverage of gay marriage vote yesterday.
mui @ 27
LINK: Lawmakers in the northeastern state of Massachusetts on Thursday rejected a proposal by opponents of gay marriage that would have let voters decide on a potential ban by a constitutional amendment.
splitting control of Palestine
Is there no way to stop the sale of weapons and ammunition?
Why do I even ask?
mui @ 27
The word in Mass is Hallelujah.
It’s over. The good guys and gals won. Marriage is save for EVERYONE.
Fred Clarkson has a very good analysis on Talk2Action.
selise @ 32
it’s sickening, but it seems like you’re right
I think it is time for some good old American isolationism.
Martin Schneider @ 28
Nothing I’ve said excuses murderous acts by Hamas or anyone else. All of the things you say about some in Hamas may be true, but the policy of isolation and repression has not merely failed, it has backfired. We need to be rethinking the problem and the range of solutions.
The entire Bush Crime Family has the reverse Midas Touch. EVERYTHING they touch turns to “turd blossoms” —without the blossoms.
Martin Schneider @ 28
And this is how in the name of protecting Israel, people get sucked into the neocon delusion. Engagement and negotiation is not a reward, a boon we extend to our friends and those who cooperate. Unless you are an over-the-top Likud adherent, you recognize that the situation on the ground today is, shall we say, not good for Israel–except for those who salivate at the chance for mass expulsions of Palestinians from the occupied territories. So we can acknowledge that Bush’s approach has backfired. Predictably, for that matter. Go back to when this policy of isolating, ignoring, and humiliating Hamas was being crafted and read the critiques of those who said it was likely to result in precisely what we see today.
Scarecrow @ 33
The Legislature, in a vote as swift as it was historic, reaffirmed the state’s first-in-the-nation same-sex marriage ruling yesterday, unequivocally protecting the rights of gays and lesbians to wed in Massachusetts until at least 2012.
Hail to Massachusetts! Home to the Revolution the birthplace of America and the Boston Wedding. What is done in Mass. is important to the rest of New England, eg: CT legislature.
Scarecrow @ 39
amen, scarecrow!
Anything Clinton did Bush negated as soon as he came into office. Remember Ari Fleischer saying Clinton tried to “shoot the moon” wrt Pal/Isr relations?
selise @ 43
I am generally a fence sitter on this issue. I wish the best for Israel and the Palestinians. However, I cannot get over the bombings of civilians in Lebanon. That was barbaric. Whoever is responsible should be chucked out of power for ever and ever.
A different perspective from the editorial page of the NYT.
When I first read Fisk’s “Great War for Civilization”, it was apparent that this was required reading before anyone was allowed to vote. It is even more necessary not only to have read but to pass comprhension for anyone involved in state offices and the conduct of state affairs. That position is even more urgent today.
Additionally, Finkelstein’s “Beyond Chutpah” compliments Robert Fisk’s opus. In it, Finkelstein reports facts that are not allowed into general circulation by the vested interests those facts expose (where else is the MSM charged with like complicity – let me count the ways). Finkelstein’s brilliant analysis and exposure of the fraud, duplicitious, dissembling, and flat out lies of the vested interests who gain power and wealth in the continuing status quo are brought to light and exposed in an outstanding piece of academic critique. Dershowitz is exposed for the academic fraud, dissembler, and A*P*C/PN*C apologist he has made himself.
Until both books are read and assimulated in the greater politically active population, there is no hope a resolution to the ME or Israeli/Palestinian conflicts will be found and the crimes against humanity will continue unabated and unresolvable. That is the price for continuing “the A*P*C/PN*C lie” – a house truly built on sand.
Borked Again?
Bork me once…
“The submission was not something I would expect from a first-year law student,” a frowning Walton told Libby’s new appellate attorney, Lawrence Robbins. “It appeared to be produced . . . for the sole purpose of throwing their names out there so somehow I’d feel pressure.”
mui –
However, I cannot get over the bombings of civilians in Lebanon. That was barbaric. Whoever is responsible should be chucked out of power for ever and ever.
Well, they’re still in power but at about 10% or less approval in the polls, last time I checked.
mui @ 42
WWRD
What would Romney Do?
Good Morning from AZ….
just cracks me up that the Immigration bill has risen from the dead now… The Repugs here are just in a lather over it that the VERY interesting thing is that they have joined US in our recall effort for McCain AND now want to push for Kyl….. teehee….
The more that bill is put on the front burner, the more it distroys the Repug party here. One friend said that this is Ted Kennedy’s revenge for NCLB …. that Kennedy knows the immigration bill will never pass but while it is out there it will tear the GOP asunder….
Ok… coffee is done… brb
katymine @ 51
I love Teddy.
Teddy is a masterful politician…
Scarecrow @ 49
Gosh, sounds like our democracy. Jeebus.
Bay State Librul @ 50
Romney did the whole effort a huge favor by leaving office on schedule.
Governor Deval Patrick worked very hard to move legislators away from putting the measure on the ballot. Big victory for the new Democratic Governor and his supporters.
Bay State Librul @ 49
This was killed for all intents and purposes thanks to Willard’s escape from MA and Deval Patrick’s election to the governorship. Patrick was instrumental in pushing for this to go down. He was up front and vocally supportive of Gay Marriage with no apologies. He was one of the reasons this happened.
Bay State Librul @ 50
Oh, his candidacy seems based on negating Massachusetts, embracing the national “base” and saying hail to Ronnie Raygun.
RevDeb @ 55
Agreed. Didn’t Barney get it right
“The real Romney is clearly an extraordinarily ambitious man with no perceivable political principle whatsoever. He is the most intellectually dishonest human being in the history of politics.”
Really interesting article yesterday on how the Dems are hearing from their constituents about Iraq . . . and now this time they’ve got the message . . . really.
Ooops.
On second thought, isn’t Bushie the most intellectually dishonest person? Maybe not,
Bush has no intellect.
AJ @ 13
There’s historic precedent. In fact the lack of approval (only 29%) says something pretty good about the American public. Consider Germany in late 1943, when the war was going about as well for them as our Iraq venture is for us. The end-game was pretty much in sight, but the regime was still strongly supported by the public, despite war-weariness.
On the whole we’re doing pretty good in that department.
While the Bush Administration thrusts ever closer to a world war, and my party sits idly by, Rahm Emanuel tells us, (arguing against Demos concentrating on Iraq): “You can’t become a one trick pony”
Can someone set me straight? What’s more important than peace?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 61
More like Rahm Emmanuel needs to get it straight.
sofistic @ 38
Oh, for sure… not much chance, though, with the neo-cons deciding our foreign policy. Reason Numero Uno for a change at the White House.
-MS
mui @ 45
i don’t think we have to take sides…. although it is human nature, i suppose, to want to figure out who are the “good guys” and who are the “bad guys” so we can take sides.
but, if i have to be on anyone’s side – it is the side of the people (on all “sides”) who recognize the universality of human rights and who work for peace and justice (sometimes at great personal risk) for all people.
then i’m free to condemn the bombing of lebanon last summer and attacks against israeli civilians.
The recognition of Israel by Harry Truman was the biggest blunder in American Foreign Policy. Wait, make that the second biggest blunder, after the Neocon War Against Iraq.
The creation of Israel violated international law because the land was stolen from the people of Palestine. Other than the Korean War, intervention in Vietnam and recognizing Israel, Truman hardly made any other mistakes.
“The word in Mass is Hallelujah.”
Yo – RevDeb: This is MA or mass? Either way, very clever pun!
-MS
Rules:
- Don’t stick your nose in other countries’ business.
- Universal essential services, like health care, banking, transportation, communication. I can go on. but you get the idea.
- Food independence…
Gonzo’s office is beavering away to reduce voters rights in NC. Nice report in Charlotte Newspaper linked by Josh in TPM. That and the new USDA in Central California. Isn’t that the district where we beat Pombo last time out? These guys don’t miss a beat. They will be fighting down to the last bunker.
I’m trying to recall another instance of when the US officially repudiated the results of a freely contested election. I got nothing. Anyone else?
Stepping away from the Middle East for a moment, how do you think that’s going to be remembered in the next country the US urges to hold free elections? “Sure, you say that now, but if we don’t elect the folks you want, then what?”
We’re going to be paying for that first mistake for a long, long time.
An excellent post Scarecrow. My son wanted me to name Shrub’s 10 worst mistakes and indicate why they were mistakes. (It was impossible to limit the list to only 10, and ranking them became impossible.) I’ll route him to this post. Your incisive essay outlines where they have failed, how they have failed and why they have failed.
Frank33 @ 65
Well, there’s no going back now.
if only…
Scarecrow @ 12
I’m certain we will hear this canard a few more times, although different variations will undoubtedly be employed.
But what did they mean to do, if they didn’t mean to do it? What was their intent?
My kids typically respond to such inquiries with a shrug, I dunno…we should be forcing that response out of them because every parent listening to that reply will know immediately that they did certainly mean to do it.
Peterr at circa #69…
Does the CIA assassination of the president of Chile (Allende) during the ’70s count?
Rahm… sit down and listen while a Granny from AZ explains that all roads lead to Iraq…
1. ya bleed 200 million a week in Iraq, where is there funding for domestic issues?
2. Every resource is in or focused in Iraq, THAT is a national security issue
3. USA in debt up to our eyeballs to China & others …. due to #1
4. Heathcare crisis… if #1 wasn’t happening then there could be funds
5. US infrastructure is falling apart around our ears or selling it off to the highest bidder which is directly related to …you guess it… #1 IRAQ
Until Iraq is resolved….. only then
Looks like Hamas is trying to keep this from spiraling further toward civil war. From Scott Wilson of the WaPo Foreign Service, filed about 50 minutes ago:
We’ll see what’s next.
The practical reality is, Israel and the US need to manage this situation to a better outcome for everyone. On the other hand, it’s quite difficult to negotiate with a party that only ambiguously, or maybe not at all, who knows, agrees to uphold previously negotiated commitments. Either Hamas is (or was) the elected government of Palestine, or it isn’t. If it is, it needs to uphold previous commitments as any government must. If not, then what assurances are there that they won’t renege in the future on subsequently negotiated commitments?
So, yes, more adroit diplomacy by us in particular might have made a big difference. But it’s simply treating the Palestinians like children — i.e., as agents who aren’t responsible for their actions — not to place ultimate responsibility for the current situation where it resides, namely, on a putative government that insists on being recognized as a government while also insisting that it need not act as a government is bound to, i.e., as a continuing agent that makes and keeps commitments.
re links on usa (and israeli) previous support of fatah to counter hamas: here’s another wapo link (to complement scarecrow’s two above):
BTW. Tula Connell’s post yesterday. I sent an email to my Senator(s) to support the employee free choice act. On the AFL-CIO site there is a list of congressional cosponsors of the bill. All congresscritters in CT were listed *including* crazy Chris Shays and HoJoe Lieberman. I am having a “get out of town moment.” Questions besiege the mind . . .
sonate @ 73
or Operation Ajax, bringing the Shah to power in Iran in 1953
Michael in Park Slope @ 65
Hadn’t meant the pun—I’ve been around since before the 2 letter state codes and most of us in Mass still call it that.
But good catch!
selise @ 64
That sounds like a most reasonable position.
sonate @ 73
florida, 2000 ?
When is Condi testifying about Iraq? I thought that was scheduled, but it seems to have gone away.
selise @ 81
if you are going there, Ohio in 2004 should count as well.
RevDeb @ 84
And Ohio 2005, where vote reform initiatives that were favored in pre-election polls 2 to 1 were mysteriously defeated by 2 to 1. Secretary of State Blackwell anyone?
snowbird42 @ 24
Actually (AND somewhat scarily), Pat Buchanan was challenging Christy in some respects although no where near as effectively as Jane or Marcy would have.
RevDeb @ 80
Yeah, nobody in CT says, “Worcester, MA.” They say “Woostah, Mass.”
larry birnbaum @ 76
I agree that Hamas should have been held responsible for governance and doing the things governments are supposed to do, but of course, we didn’t want them in that position; we wanted them excluded from government.
As for obeying treaties, I agree. But a US that throws out the Geneva Conventions is not in a position to lecture Palestinians about international obligations.
Would Hamas become more responsible if we’d made a different choice? I dunno. But I’m not impressed with the results of our policy so far.
Elliott @ 79
I was thinking of something less . . . ahem . . . dramatic than assassination, but yes, Chile is perhaps another example of this.
Iran, on the other hand, is not. The Shah’s predecessor in 1953 was his father, who had seized control of Iraq himself in 1921. Neither fall into the category of “winners of freely contested elections.”
Wrt Israel/Palestine, ever since prior to the founding of Israel, it has been the lies, now it is lies lying atop lies lying atop endless lies. Both parties are victim to their and the other’s lies. Clearing the fog of dissembly and obfuscation can be done, but it requires both Fact and Truth. Without Fact and Truth, there is not the slightest chance.
Just consider the enormity of the lie told the Palestinians about the righteousness of Democracy, they did, and they are being severly punished for their Act of Democracy. Democracy will never be trusted again as a viable modus operandi, great work eejits.
It is the Lies, stoopid(sic*) *always wanted to do that “sic” thingy
Elliott @ 79
Diem in South Vietnam in ‘63 was rumored to have CIA involvement
I encourage ever now and then others who visit sites such as fdl to also seek out/visit Zmag.org. Often one will find pertinent articles on the ME(West Asia to those who see the globe more akin to how we Americans view North America) that most often are very worthy of the time taken to read and ponder them.
This morning,Friday,June 15,there are two such articles worthy of the time taken to read.
One,under the June 14 entries was written by Stephen Lendman and is titled ‘REVIEWING NOAM CHOMSKY’S NEW BOOK ” INTERVENTIONS”.
A second,under the June 13 entries was written by Ron Jacobs and it is titled ‘CONDOLEEZA RICE NAMES THE SYSTEM’.
The State of Israel enjoys an open endorsement from the United States and many Americans. If what Israel does and desires in and of the WestBank/Gaza were better seen/understood it would perhaps not be granted the levels of endorsement/tolerance it is given so freely and continually by so many Americans and the United States.
It should be understood that what Israel is doing in the WestBank and Gaza is truly wrong and surely represents the worst of police state styled mis-rule, occupation abusive practices, illegal land takings and political subjugation/expungement.
Ignorance and blindness on the part of far too many Americans allow the worst instincts and desires of Israel to dig itself deeper into a very dark hole where the ethics and morals have become fully shrouded by the worst of conduct.
The Palestinians easily can be seen as being in the same convulted set of circumstances the Native Americans found themselves in during the 19th century at the hands and whims of Americans.
Failure to see or understand this has become a fatal fixture of American policy as presently formed and practiced towards the Palestinians and Israel.
RevDeb @ 84
Just got my Greg Palast book in the mail.
Peterr @ 69
Lemme see. Nicaragua (Ortega), Chile (Allende), Venezuela (Chavez), Haiti (Aristide), Iran (Mossadegh)….
(Agh. I need more caffeine, grammar has gone all to hell.)
It would have been so easy last summer after Israel stopped its bombing of Lebanon, to crank up diplomatic discussions with Hamas, Fatah and Israeli factions, when Olmert had waning public support.
But no. The U.S. does not indulge in such fripperies.
Say good morning to the irrepressible Christy, whose new post/thread is ready.
Peterr @ 89
“The CIA-backed coup remains extremely controversial. It had overthrown Iran’s immensely popular, independent-minded Prime Minister and the democratically elected government. On the other hand, the coup’s defenders often argue that Communism in Iran was permanently destroyed and the country was stable and friendly to the West for years.”
from wiki on Kermit Roosevelt, Jr.
Rayne @ 95
Yes, that was another lost opportunity.
scarecrow – if you were in charge of usa ME policy, instead of elliot abrams (i wish!), what would you do? what do you think would be the most helpful action the usa could be taking right now?
katymine @ 51
I hope it’s true that the bill will never pass cause as far as I can see, it’s a really terrible bill…
New thread…
Thank you for the great post, Scarecrow
Scarecrow @ 58
well, they’ve certainly been hearing from our household … now we’ll see if they’re ready to actually do anything
Bay State Librul @ 52
Except when No Child is left Behind.
Peterr @ 69
US elections in 2000?
GeorgeSimian @ 9
… refusing to recognize the democratically elected government, Hamas, in Gaza and failing to protect the democratically elected government of Lebanon from an Israeli invasion and bombing campaign.
Elliott @ 97
Dueling wikis . . . the Wiki on the Shah says this:
He came to power in a coup, and “lack of democratization” was a hallmark of his regime.
As for the other examples folks have mentioned, some fall into the category of “disputed elections.” No one at 1600 Penn Ave claimed that Hamas stole the election in the Palestinian territories; they just didn’t like the results.
selise @ 99
No magic bullets for 50 years of hatred. We can’t even figure out how to talk to Republicans. But I have to think that the surrounding Arab states have had enough instability and enough violence. Their efforts to initiate discussions with Israel are a place to start, even though they propose things Israel can’t accept. The point is to get folks to start talking, regularly. Given them a forum; create expectations that something will be done because it must be done. And the US has to reclaim its role as honest broker. Throw out the neocons and publically disavow their belligerent and imperial framework. Try a little humility. Focus aid on humanitarian relief and rebuilding infrastructure for basic human services. Send engineers, not soldiers.
Scarecrow @ 58
Rahm Emmanuel must be a one trick pony if he thinks that Congress shouldn’t address the war and domestic issues at the same time and work overtime to do try and undo the messes.
THE guy to read on Bush’s Middle East Train Wreck is Tony Karon who, oddly, works for Time, Inc. He’s South African, Jewish, resident in NYC, and smart. Been around, as it were.
Scarecrow @ 108 –
everything you write sound great to me… but i’m still stuck with this bit:
because with 400,000 settlers in palestinian occupied territory, i don’t see how any israeli politician is going to be advocate a “land for peace” deal without losing political support (or worse, being killed). i fear that the settlement expansion (that happened under clinton’s watch) has created an untenable political situation for israeli politicians.
and palestinians say they’ve already compromised by conceeding 78% of israel/palestine (that’s the ‘67 green line)… and they won’t conceed any of the remaining 22%. something like the geneva accords are probably the best that can be expected (full arab recognition of israel w/in ‘67 borders and only token right of return of palestinian refugees).
maybe Ali Abunimah has the best idea… but that would take a lot of outside pressure…
but, of course you’re right… talking is the first step. and i’d also like to see a mutually observed cease-fire.
janinsanfran @ 110
thank you janinsnfran – i was not aware of tony karon’s writing. it looks very, very good.
Come to think of it Rahm Emmanuel said “one trick pony.” Lieberman campaign said “one trick pony,” referring to Ned Lamont who in reality had a pretty wide platform and a very special interest in education. Hmmm, curious and curiouser.
janinsanfran @ 110
That’s an excellent article. Thanks for the link.
Larry Birnbaum @ 76:
Being taken seriously when you assert the other guy’s regime must accept that it has to support the commitments of its predecessors becomes a lot more difficult when one of the first things you do when coming into office is to start tearing up the treaties and other commitments made by your own predecessors.
Peterr @ 107
Thet weren’t referring to the reign of either of the Shahs…the were referring to the democratically elected Parliament and PM Mossadegh in Iran.
Which one of these others had results that were “disputed” by 1600 Penn Ave? Nicaragua (Ortega), Chile (Allende), Haiti (Aristide), Venezuela (Chavez).
I might throw in the election in Algeria of the Islamists, for good measure. Or Myanmar, where the US has done almost Shite to put pressure on the regime. In the first case the US was cheering along the military junta from the sidelines (and turning a blind eye to French arming and training the Algerian army). In the latter, the US did absolutely nothing for years to push Myanmar’s ASEAN neighbors to take the “high road”. Of course, many of them were alaso authoritarian, if not to the same extent,.
In none of these cases was the general fairness and tenor of the election results in dispute.
AJ @ 13
Incompetence. They’ve botched so may things, how can they be trusted with anything else at all?
Stephen Spruiell at National Review Online says today, of the Bush administration’s — and State Department’s inability to process routine passport applications:
The message “some” people take away is that the Bush administration won’t be competent to enforce the borders?! Well, duh, of course they won’t. But substitute ANYTHING — not just a policy one (or NRO) opposes — for “WHTI” and the attitude should be: We don’t trust you to do this.
Team Bush seems determined to create the terror it says it fears in order to justify its claims to unreviewable power. It’s the same at home, too, and in Iraq, and would be in Iran. The contempt they display for the harm inflicted on the objects of their disdain is mind boggling.
People are loathe to challenge their leaders, but I think Bush and Co. get away with it in large measure because most people can’t or won’t believe that this is what they do, an outcome team Bush surely anticipated.
Gang, Observe the Law of Revolution in the process of all of this as things ‘turn around’: One does not disenfranchise a people in their own land without inviting instructive consequence to one’s self in one’s own land. It’s that easy. The cascade of consequnces has only begun. There is one way to turn this all around: Make Only Gracious Choices. They are available. Choose them.
Hi everyone! I am just able to pop in from the local library and stumbled upon this great post– kudos to you Scarecrow.
I just finished reading a phenomenal and non-partisan book by Yasmina Khadra– “The Attack”– well worth the read and about this painful tragedy.
It’s the Occupation……..imho. It’s madness to plant a flower with one hand while pulling another with the other–(paraphrased)
Hope to visit soon again when the ‘puter problems are resolved! In the meantime, I’ll continue to hope y’all are well and that peace and justice emerge everywhere that people suffer.
Angie!!!!
Great to see you.
Come forward a couple threads to Christy’s, and talk with us.
SO, are any on the LEFT ready or willing YET, to ask the hard questions on our side?
Which side do you think an Hillary/A*P*C Administration, or Israel biased Congress would support — or more to the point willing to arm?
Remembering her colleagues both Schumer and Albright are still into total spread the democracy ‘intervention’ mode… in the ME through their membership for one with the:
Foundation for the Defense of Democracies
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1475
Why when “…the U.S. economy is not dependent on Mideast oil; 70% of U.S. energy supplies do not originate in the Middle East. The United States is actually more dependent on Latin American oil than it is on Saudi and Persian Gulf oil…” are we still trying to change the ME in our own image?
Time to Ignore the Middle East?
Leon Hadar | June 7, 2007
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/rw/4294
Seriously, with our current front runners would they have caused even more chaos with their track record of having such an un – “evenhandedness’ approach…
Why aren’t WE asking our own candidates the hard FOREIGN POLICY type questions so we aren’t jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.?
Martin Schneider @ 28
Once it became clear, near the end of the Clinton administration, Arafat couldn’t get political support to sigh a treaty with Israel there had to be something other than the long long never-ending internecine war — they had to go to full-blooded all-out war. That’s where we are now. It’s only in this mode of war that Golda Meir’s wisdom will be made more clear. She said the war will end when the mothers value their children’s lives more than the war. With a low-level of violence it might’ve been acceptable, but with a lot more violence they will quickly discover peace is better.
Sadly, it has to be noted there are hawks in Israel (and around the world) who almost must learn this the hard way.
At least we can hope for that.
Bay State Librul @ 52
Looks like he’s using the same tactic on Republicans that Bushies are using against Sunni & Shia in Iraq — let ‘em kill each other while we sit quietly nearby watching. In Iraq it’s immoral since neither was apparently our enemy. In Arizona it’s hilarious.
Frank33 @ 65
Would you rather Truman have let North Korea conquer the South? You a commie or something?
What “intervention in Vietnam”? Didn’t we have a treaty which pushed us into it? Wasn’t the real build-up only years later when LBJ and the Gulf of Tonkin revved it up?
In the rear-view mirror Israel might look wrong, but at the time it was absolutely the best solution they could stomach. We live with their choices and to grouch about it now is just whiny bitching and not productive.
The implicit message in Hamas was using missiles without mentioning all the other stuff going on (in any given time period the death toll amongst Palestinian civilians is ALWAYS higher than Israeli citizens) leaves an impression that Hamas was comitting violence when Israel wasn’t. This simply isn’t the case.
As it happens, during the period in question, Hamas did agree to a ceasefire, and while I don’t recall if they were using rockets at the time I do know that they stopped all of their suicide bombing attacks and I do know that they didn’t start up violence again until Israel shelled a Palestinian beach.
This isn’t just my opinion, scholars who have studied the Irish peace process (which worked) have stated that by the protocols used in those talks Hamas would have been considered a good faith actor worthy of a place at the table… and Israel wouldn’t.
Finally, the civil war in Palestine was ginned up by explicit US policy of providing guns and aid to Fatah.
As usual lately, the US showed an exquisite ability to pick the weaker, more corrupt faction.
99.9% of the fault lies with the Palestinians themselves. They get more aid and help from America and the world than any other country even at the expense of our own people. The point 1 percent is the world for not stepping in to stop this. Our own worry about stepping on peoples toes has made this problem worse.
It is a little late in this thread, but I would like to comment on Rahm Emmanuel’s remark that the Democratic party cannot become a “one trick pony.”
Rahm, a one trick pony is a hell of a lot better than a no trick pony.
Scarecrow, you write:
“Despite all the warnings that this misleading framework distorts reality and could lead to disaster, Team Bush just blows by the stop signs and continues until it crashes into reality, causing one catastrophe after another. The destruction caused by this flawed policy framework is strewn all over the Middle East — Lebanon, where Bush and Condi Rice foolishly encouraged Israel’s ill conceived war against Hezbolla but managed only to weaken the Lebanese government, Iraq, and now Palestine.”
But what if this is the intent of the Bush Israel plan to disrupt the Middle East. Moslems and Arabs killing Moslems and Arabs?
Don’t you think this bodes will for Israel by reducing the Moslem and Arab population?
Dennis