On those days when I need a giggle, I tra la over to Time’s Swampland blog to read the comments. Today, a Mr. Attaturk made me spew my coffee at his reponse to the Mudcat Saunders entry in the Right-Wing Frame Using Dem Consultant Idgit Of The Year contest. To wit:
Posted by attaturk
June 11, 2007Are we sure this isn’t Bob Shrum in a NASCAR hat?
Sheeee-it. Now THAT is some funny snark.
No matter how you wrap it up, it is a losing strategy to make unfounded assumptions and expect everyone to go along with them without calling you on your idiocy. Especially when you insult folks in your own party with lines straight out of the Lee Atwater playbook.
Personally, I’m from West By God Virginia, born and raised. Still live here. I like my iced tea sweet, and my peaches in a cobbler…and I also happen to be a stickler for the rule of law, even for friends of the Beltway crew. I know a bunch of y’all who live south of the Mason-Dixon line would agree with me on that one, whether or not you attend the opera or head down to the roadhouse on Fridays for two-for-one beer night (and free wings at the bar for ladies). And that goes for a whole lotta folks above the Mason-Dixon line as well.
So, Mister Mudcat Saunders can stop pretending to speak for all us hillbillies any time now. His “common man” schtick is grating on my last nerve, and his obsession with playing up the absolute worst of the hickville stereotypes at the expense of any and all other voting constituencies is leaving Democrats — and the candidates he supports — in a bad light indeed.
Some of us rural folk are intelligent, inclusive, law-abiding egalitarians and patriots who think the constitution and the rule of law ought to come ahead of cronyism. And Mr. Saunders clearly does not speak for us. That goes for those with and without a college degree, with and without a NASCAR favorite, with and without Granny Verta’s pimento cheese spread recipe, but definitely all with more of a lick of common sense that Mr. Saunders shows in the Swampland. Take a page from Dr. King and RFK’s books, Mr. Saunders, and stop trying to play divide and cracker.
(Photo via yuan2003.)
UPDATE: Mudcat decides that he was perhaps ever so slightly intemperate and..erm…wrong, Part III. (via TBogg)
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Uno!
You hit the nail right on the head, Christy. Although I live in Indianapolis now, I grew up in a rural part of Indiana. I’d head down to the little hole-in-the-wall bar, drink a few beers from a can (bottles were too fancy), shoot a game or two of pool, then belt out a few tunes on the karaoke machine (Johnny Cash was always a personal favorite). Just because we grew up in the sticks, or still live out there, doesn’t mean we’re ignorant of the fast ones these “pundits” are trying to pull.
Good morning Christy!
Hope you’re having a good time with the latest Fitz filing.
We eagerly await your analysis.
Redd. ygm.
You Go Christy!
As a native of the Bluegrass, my chicken should be fried (or in chicken salad) the ham should be aged in the smokehouse for a year and the politicians work best when they are both erudite and honest.
g’mornin chrsty, got to read you just before off to work
btw, email sent to your aol, hope you got that one
till L8tr, c u
I love that you called yourself a hillbilly. (I’m one – once removed. It comes out in spades whenever the family gets together.) And you’re right about Mr. Turk. One of the snarkiest men on the internets.
Morning, gang. Coffee is fresh and the morning is sunny. Life is good today…
Thunderbird at 2 — Amen to that. The thing that irritated me most was that Saunders was using Frank Luntz-tested language to either enhance his own pundit standing, or to shore up Joe Klein’s, at the expense of other Democrats. Not going to pass me by without comment.
Some of the best people are from Kansas, Dorothy, Toto, …., and others. There is a lot of smart outside that states borders, and like Ireland, exports its best people. Such narrowminded comments have reprocussions far and wide.
So I searched for Robert Novak’s Monday column at the Washington Post — can’t get it. Searched the list of columnists — he’s not on it. Maybe it’s just a list for today’s? Seemed pretty long.
I ordered unsweet ice tea in a small diner in No. Georgia, and they didn’t have any. Christy, Tired Fed has been wading through Fitz’s motion and has provided us with good analysis but we are awaiting your expert opinion also.
Talking about life being good.
There sunshine peaking in everywhere….:)
More from UK re; Bander, bribes and cover-ups etc..
MoD accused over role in Bandar’s £1bn
· BBC says officials processed payments
· Goldsmith refuses to answer questions
David Leigh and Rob Evans
Tuesday June 12, 2007
The Guardian
Pressure was mounting on ministers for full disclosure of the government’s role in Britain’s biggest arms deal last night after claims that the Ministry of Defence directly administered payments of more than £1bn to Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia.
The MoD refused to address the specific allegations, made in BBC’s Panorama, while the attorney general, Lord Goldsmith, continued to stonewall questions over his role in the affair. BAE, the weapons manufacuturer at the centre of the controversy, remained silent.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/baef…..61,00.html
Good Morning Christy!
Thanks for the chuckles and smiles.
Followed Redd’s link to the Wikipedia page on “cracker.”
went eagerly to the etymology section and found:
“It is documented in Shakespeare’s King John (1595): “What cracker is this … that deafes our ears / With this abundance of superfluous breath?”
hard to imagine a more apt description of the “Mudcat,” innit?
jackie @ 13
After reading this article I also noticed that the Guardian had an article on Paris Hilton. Seems like she found God and also plans on opening a Paris playhouse (for children of course.)
JPL at 12 — Give me a chance to have some coffee, would ya? Just dropped off the Peanut at preschool and started reading.
What ever happened to those emails that WH officials sent using their GOP accounts? Weren’t the GOP emails subpoenaed, at least in the DOJ firing scandal? Did they ever turn anything over to Congress? What’s going on with that?
And wasn’t Rice scheduled to testify this week?
Hillbillies and rednecks don’t always live south of the Mason-Dixon, either, as evidenced by the graduation party buffet served this weekend from a kiddie wading pool used as a cooler for potato salad and tuna-macaroni salad on a family member’s dining room table here in the great white north. Pigs and dogs serenaded us in the background as the occasional car drove by on the dirt road in front of the house.
From here it’s not a long trip to “go to hell” as Saunders demands; we’re already there if this is the best that a presidential campaign can find to guide them to victory, a moron who chooses to launch a circular firing squad rather than attack the opposition.
Agh. Who will rid us of these meddlesome consultants?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 17
Thanks Christy, enjoy your coffee.
Met Mudcat at YK. As someone descended from several hundred years of died-in-the-wool hillbillis, it’s pretty obvious tome when someone is playing up the hick schtick for fun and profit, and Mudcat certainly. He’s a cartoon.
Does James Carville really need any competition for gimp-in-the-celler to the beltway bores? Ke-rist. It must be hard to talk this tough while prone.
back when i was teaching (pre-service teachers, mostly, and grad students in Ed.), i got a fair amount of flak from students when I usta suggest that every (privileged) white person NEEDED to be seriously rousted–for something they didn’t do–big-time, the whole nine yards, assuming the position and everything, by a good cop on a bad day, or a bad cop any day.
it’s an almost certain way to ‘get religion.’
Is something happening re LIBBY today? One side or the other has a deadline to submit an argument?
OT from today’s NYTimes on the No-Confidence vote:
My bold. It seems that someone has finally figured out the truth…
hychka at 23 — Yes, Team Fitz filed a response brief to Libby’s request to stay out on bail. Am printing it off now for a closer read. Give me a chance to drink some coffee and do a little redlining, and I’ll have something up on it in a bit.
Rayne @ 19
As I remember it, Hell, MI was about ten miles from Oscoda on a back road and was just a little crossroads hamlet…Since Hell froze every winter, ever since I was there, I specified Hell freezing over in the summertime. ;})
dakine01 @ 24
My bold. It seems that someone has finally figured out the truth…
Somebody on the over night thread mentioned that the news media seemed to forget the word filibuster.
Good morning, and thanks CHS for a post that is right on time.
Can’t decide if the South’s boundaries are defined by Waffle Houses or sweet tea.
TiredFed & jayt, left you some feedback EPU-ed last thread.
Jane at 21 — There was a bit of James Carville public hamming, wasn’t there? I missed the panel that he had with Tom Schaller on Southern political strategy, but I heard it was a doozy. *g*
tommy at 28 — For my money, it’s waffle houses. *g*
Thanks re your answer on Libby.
Hopefully Libby will twist in the wind for many more days and weeks as every twist brings more people to question the Bush brand of justice.
Being from Virginia, I had heard of Saunders, of course, but the first time I ever actually saw him was at what turned out to be the Tom Schaller vs. Mudcat panel at YKos. I had some disagreements with Schaller’s thesis, but Mudcat’s endless “you may have your fancy numbers, but how dare you insult the good people of the South that I speak for!” schtick guaranteed that there was almost no worthwhile discussion.
I’m glad he helped Warner and Webb get elected, but I’m even more glad that Tim Kaine won without him.
dakine01 @ 26
Maybe there’s more than hellish places here in the Great Lakes State, but Hell MI is actually about 30 minutes northwest of Ann Arbor MI — in other words, emptywheel is about an hour closer to Hell than I am as the crow flies. I think we should send Mudcat the airfare and car rental to go there himself.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 31
There’s one in Raleigh where the “U” has fallen off. I think “Waffle Hose” is much more appropriate.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 25
We’re all ears, Redd. Can hardly wait. Maybe I’ll make another pot of coffee.
I particularly loathe the Opera crack, not just because I love opera to the point of singing it. The plain fact is that many of the supporters of the opera are republicans, wealthy people who love the classical arts. I know lots of them and they are decent, kind people, the kind of republicans I grew up with, the ones people used to call the grown-ups.
Maybe Mudcat could tell us what he thinks of them.
I come from Pennsyltucky. I carry my dog-eared copy of Thoreau in one hand and a can of whoop-ass in the other.
Prairie Sunshine @ 29
got it. thanks.
Rayne @ 19: I don’t remember seeing you @ the party. Did you come over and say hello?
geoff @ 38
haha. learned to swim in Walden Pond and my momma was born and raised in the mountains of Virginia.
Way OT, Apple has a Safari for Windows for those of you who want a glimpse of the other side Surfin Safari
Hi, Tommy!
I’m glad to hear the continuing good news about Esten. We’re all still rooting for you and the little guy!
From today’s WaPo0, It looks like John Solomon is being fed by someone out to get the FBI director.
dakine01 @ 24
My bold. It seems that someone has finally figured out the truth…
I think it will be a sad day when Democratic Whip imposes the same Republican Whip and Democrats Vote/march lockstep like the Republicans do. To me, it is worth the cost that members exercise their conscientiousness in representing their constintuents. It is seared vividly in my memory when Congress passed the First Gulf War resolution, Democrats showing the divisions in their constituencies, the Republicans lock step, stormtrouper perfect to Bush41’s wishes. A real sad day for a republican democracy that.
masaccio at 37 — I grew up in a little town on the Ohio river, and the closest that I ever got to opera was watching it on PBS. And I loved it. Still do. FInally got to see an opera in person in college at the Bolshoi in Moscow when I attended a conference there. I also love country music if it’s good, and adore bluegrass. The sort of thinking that sorts us all into little, stereotypical boxes — especially the sort that says if you like music or artwork or literature or learning of any sort then you ought to be made fun of smacks of the sort of idiotic bullshit I had to deal with in junior high for being the “smart girl.” Oughtn’t Mr. Saunders have grown past that stage by now in his lifetime? Honestly, as I was reading the bit, I kept wondering how exactly he thought the world ought to be run by idgits and mohrons because, frankly, I’ve had enough of the one in the White House as it is.
mrstrailerco @ 40
I am so sorry, but no, I probably didn’t. I spent my time sucking up to my spouse’s side of the family. I’m the one with the sunburn whose kids were throwing the football through the tent.
Any chance you know who that was that showed up with the eight little barefoot girls under age 10?
Rayne, that was my niece. She’s an underachiever.
Arianna does it again. Absolutely adore the way Huffington keeps the pressure on my party.
“The latest proof that Tyrannosaurus Democrat is not an extinct species comes in the fossilized thinking of Stuart Rothenberg, editor of The Rothenberg Political Report. Writing in Roll Call, the Cro-Magnon pundit waxed ecstatic over Congressional Democrats’ handling of the war funding issue, spinning the Dems’ capitulation as having “played the issue like a Stradivarius,” and proclaiming: “From a purely political point of view, Democrats had their cake and ate it too.”
mrstrailerco @ 48
But persistent, I’ll give her that…still trying for a boy, huh?
All teenagers (& a lot of adults) should have had a job as a clerk behind a cash register to learn how to interact with customers & how to make change.
All ceos periodically should have to work in the bowels of the companies along side the blue collar workers with the same paycheck!
And political pundits & consultants should get out of Dodge & actually live for awhile in outer america with the rest of us.
The quickest way to get a clue is walking in other’s moccasins.
I don’t think that Bush is a binary person in the true sense, because he is just protecting his cronies self interests. He is amoral though, isn’t he?
posted this downstairs, time to repost
all over the tubes we find the whurlitser is telling us how great a campaign clinton is running, how she knows what she’s doing, how she’s not making any mistakes
look for that one, “she’s not making any mistakes”…it’s the new talking point they’ve all been mailed
at any rate, they REALLY want clinton to be the democratic candidate, they think she’s gonna be the easiest to beat
keep an eye out for that, that’s what’s gonna happen, corporate media is gonna promote hilary for the primary and do s swithceroo for the general election
perris @ 53
In GA when Barnes was governor the corporations pushed him to change the state flag and promised that they had his back at reelection time. We know how that worked out.
Up now on CSPAN 3
Christy Hardin Smith @ 31
When we pass by the waffle house I ask my kids “Do you guys want to go to the Awful House and have a pancake and a cigarette?” and they say “Nooooooooo!”
Amen, Sister Christie! As someone from the hill country of eastern Oklahoma and the son of a real life Ozark hillbilly (grandpa dropped out of the 6th grade and farmed 60 acres of flint rock and post oak with a horse team into the 1960s), I heartily endorse your sentiments. Southern does not mean stupid, bigoted, and fundamentalist. Mr. “Mudcat” is completely full of it and is playing to the worst elements in Southern culture. Many of us supported civil rights in the 60s and 70s, opposed Viet Nam and subsequent military misadventures, and even got educated (that is an earned “Dr.” there). Democrats will not “win” the South by pandering to its less savory elements, we will only lose our souls. We need to follow John Edward’s lead in calling out to all that is good and decent and to the strengths of Southern culture.
that divide and cracker gem ought to get a Pulitzer.
perris @ 53
From a letter from David Swanson in my e-mail this morning. I just dont like Clinton. shes a hawk and that about says it for me.
Rayne @ 34
And i’m about 3 hours west of Hell, MI then. Since it takes us about that long to get to Ann Arbor from GR. *grins*
If my party continues to function in the same manner, and make the same kinds of judgements (Lieberman, Iraq, etc.) it’s been making lately (for the last six or even years), we should be in a pretty good position come Nov. ‘08. To lose.
perris @ 53
I don’t think so, perris, I think they’ll support two candidates, hedging their bets. I’ve already heard far too many positive comments from corporatist Repugs who like HRC not to think they won’t get behind her through the election. But they would be crazy not to throw money to somebody on the other side of the aisle; my guess is that they will go with Thompson, although they may have reservations if he’s the Bush dynasty’s placeholder.
Business people may like some of the perks they’ve gotten under Bush, but they don’t like the rising debt, the spendthrift behavior of a Repub majority (if they see another one), the irrationality of markets and increased volatility because of the Iraq War and mishandled petroleum market.
good morning to you, too, miss Jane. hope you are feeling well today. getting ready to issue forth some snark later today?
Good post on Mr. Southern Fried Mudcat. Believe it or not there are rrural people in the West and Southwest and even on the Left Coast. Some are Bushies through and through others are conervatives and some are liberals and progressive in their views. Mr. cornpone doesn’t exactly speak for everybody. He speaks for himself. I think he would be comfortable in the DLC.
aliasofwestgate @ 60
Well, then Mudcat will beat you there if we fly his sorry ass into DTW and ship him LTL to Hell. Bring your loudest shouting voice along with pitchfork and torch of choice.
G’Morning from AZ…
Great smack down Christy…. getting my shoes on to get my walks in before it gets too hot.
Growing up in a small town in AZ, my Mom and a couple of teacher friends (all MA/MS educated) hung out together. For a while the ladies were dragging their cowboy western kids to the opera in Phoenix. I remember seeing Aida and Barber of Seville. There were other concerts and plays. It must of been her pin money because I know we were scraping by in those days.
And I did the same thing to my kids. Thankfully Portland OR had great opportunities for a variety of cultural events. My favorite was the Music Company – semi-professional musical company. Bought season tickets for the dress rehearsal nights that way we did not have to get dressed up and there was more slack for the kids behavior.
Used to walk by the Waffle House but it smelled so bad I changed my route to avoid it. Ewweeee
Ahhhhh, reading the Team Fitz filing and listening to some Sonny Rollins, fresh cuppa coffee by my laptop. Life is really good here this morning…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 67
And where by chance can others encounter said filing??
Rayne @ 6:19 am -
Speaking of petroleum markets, please read this and please let me know what you think: Life After the Oil Crash
at any rate, they REALLY want clinton to be the democratic candidate, they think she’s gonna be the easiest to beat
My personal theory is that Clinton is plan B, they want to make sure that if a Democrat does win there won’t be any nonsense about investigations, accountability, and above all, no war crimes trials.
Rayne @ 65
Maybe that’s what it was; my brother and SIL were in GR for their first time through there (that’s where she’s from), so I may have driven through Hell going to visit them. I KNOW I have been there though.
Rayne @ 65
I have a suprisingly loud voice for a petite lady. *grins* Comes from the vocal training in high schoool. No pitchfork. I wish i could get away with my fencing foil, because that just screams ‘crazy art student!’ stereotype. Meanwhile, i DJ and work as a pharmacy tech. *evil grin* So what catagory of liberal do i fall into again?
Alice @ 70
And most importantly no significant change in economic policies. Clinton may be moderately progressive on social issues, but she is pure corporatist on economic policy.
More Outrage
Justices say home healthcare aides not entitled to minimum wage, overtime
AZ has classes of employees who are exempt from the minimum wage laws, even the new state and Federal law!
Remember when in AZ to tip well…to service employees… they get base plus tips = minimum wage (ya right…not)
AZ Matt @ 68
It’s here: 06/11/07 Al-Marri v. Wright
Molly Ivors also has an excellent post up on this topic over at Whiskey Fire. Well worth a read and goes to my earlier point about winning the South (and the rest of rural America).
Christy Hardin Smith @ 67
And a good morning from L.A. Thanks for reading the filing for us, CHS.
Rollins would be great this a.m. Just put on music to work by- Coltrane/Monk @ Carnegie Hall (1957). Monk’s Mood in the background makes everything ok……..
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 75
wow. how did you do that? link to a PACER file without paying for it or logging in. was this ruling a freebie on PACER?
I love the Repubs who are welded at the hip to this project.
From The Blotter:
Hunter and Cox’s Folly
Alice @ 70
agreed. and a non-crazy hawkisk corporatist too. what’s not to love?
the non-crazy part?
What am I supposed to do? Wear a bag over my head when I go to Lincoln Center?
My middle school choral director (the fiend!) got me hooked on Mozart and Bach and I lived near the summer home of the New York City Ballet as a kid. I cut my crooked adolescent teeth on Ballanchine and Stravinsky. Look, I’m really sorry I only have 50 or so country songs on my iPod and only one Ricky SKagg’s bluegrass album. But there’s just no way in Hell you will ever find me watching cars go round and round an oval for hours on end. I don’t know why I have to continue to defend my ecclectic tastes. It’s not like I do Aida every Saturday during the season. It’s more like once a year. Can’t Mudcat be satisfied that I have to buy the cheapest seats?
What is his point exactly?
“Carry me Home” the pulitzer prize winning book by D. McWhorter pointed out how important it is to big business to categorize the working class in order to keep wages down. In the 20,s it was the poor whites against the blacks and today it’s the immigrants. If people were to actually come together it would increase union membership.
katymine @ 74
Could it be a way to reinforce the notion that we need to have illegal immigrants because they will do the jobs americans won’t. Like hard physical work with no overtime pay and no benefits.
JPL @ 82
And raise workers’ wages, which might cut into executive compensation and shareholder profits. Can’t have that you know.
Dr. Dick, framing is immportant to big biz, just listen to Lous Dobbs sometime.
Alice at 58 — Thanks, I was pretty fond of that one myself. *g*
Christy, what a beautifully on-target response. All I can say is thank for representing us as individuals who, just by virtue of being progressives, do not fit into stereotypical categories anymore than true conservatives fit the Rove model.
How utterly bizarre that someone who presents himself as a proud redneck who despises all things “elitist” is defending Joe Klein!!
I so enjoyed the supremely snarkalicious responses to his post so it was worth the read
But who the hell is this person anyway?
Anyway, Time keeps a goin’ with their corporate-based agenda, Any Which Way They Can.
I meant to add that Lou Dobbs interest is less about the middle class than it is about divide and conquer. He’s the ultimate framer.
JPL @ 85
I try not to as it induces an irresistible urge to throw things at my TV screen, which gets expensive. Corporate/Elite/Republican framing of issues (and people) is a central tool for the continued domination of the working classes, a form of what Gramsci called hegemonic control.
portia.vz @ 81
His point was that we blogging types with the gumption to speak truth to power within our own party are nothing more than DFH with high falutin’ tastes and ought to STFU.
Which of course calls for us to embrace our oppositional defiance disorder and give him the smackdown he so richly deserves for questioning undemocratically (little d) our right to speak out.
The other night while I was at my 99 year old aunties house, she was reading the Daily Oklahoman and came upon blurb saying Senator Clinton was going to be at the Hilton, I think was, in Oklahoma City, and for a $1,000 you could have supper with the Senator. I asked the Aunty did she want me to buy her a ticket? The Aunty replied, “I wouldn’t go if it was free”. True story. Now here is an an old FDR Democrat, who never went beyond the 3rd. grade but sees quite clearly through the Hillary bs.
Was Mudcat really hired by the Edwards’ campaign? I may have to seriously reconsider my support for Edwards. I’m not trusting Edward’s judgement on this one.
I couldn’t resist posting at Time:
“Mudcat (aka “Bob Shrum in a NASCAR hat”) — I have never read a blog post so angry and intolerant before. Are you sure you haven’t been doing this for years?
I hear Coulter is looking for a sidekick…”
masaccio @ 37
Same here. My grandfather was a German immigrant. He was an electrician and lost his job during the Great Depression. To make ends meet, Grandfather did various “fix-it” jobs (often bartering his skills for goods the family needed) and went hunting to help put food on the table. My grandmother baked and sold bread and cakes to bring in some extra money. In short, my grandparents fit nobody’s definition of “elitist”.
One of Grandfather’s great joys was listening to the weekly Metropolitan Opera broadcasts on the radio (a radio he found in a junk pile and repaired). His favorite opera was “Carmen”. He had a good baritone voice and would often sing the Toreador aria.
It was FDR’s New Deal that gave my grandfather a steady job again. When construction started on what was to become Hoover Dam, Grandfather went to work for General Electric working on the components that would eventually be used to generate hydroelectric power. My mother loved to tell the story of a time the family went to the movies and the newsreel shown before the feature included a segment on Hoover Dam. My normally stoic grandfather just beamed with pride, pointed to the screen and told his daughters, “I helped build that!”
Oklahoma kiddo @ 91
what does she think of Fred Thompson? (not kidding here – have spoken with a number of seniors who are Dems but like Fred).
Rayne @ 90
What Mudcat is mostly trying to do is save his own useless ass by making himself seem relevant to anything and therefor employable. The fact is that he is a typical useless establishment political consultant and social parasite. The fact is, as has been pointed out elsewhere, the Democrats do not need the South to win national elections. It would be nice, and beneficial to the people who live there, if we could make significant inroads, however. We will not do so by playing Mudcat’s Republican culture wars game. We need to go back to our party’s roots in social and especially economic issues.
Oh lordy, I wrote to the Edwards campaign yesterday to voice my opinion re. mudcat after reading his idiocy and called him mudrat ’cause I didn’t look at his name. I do hope noone was offended.
TiredFed @ 78
How did I do it? Let’s start with the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals Web page (http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/), click on opinions, and then select this week’s opinions.
kinmo @ 56
We used to joke about the presence of biscuits and gravy on the menu at a restaurant other than Bob Evans. Also, the presence of Mello Yello.
Quzi (92) — ditto, I am now worried about Edwards.
This is the second cock-up with blogging that the campaign has had, the first being their response to winger attacks on their bloggers, the second being their consultant attacking bloggers. Not good at all; the campaign has apparently not read Jay Rosen’s “A Blog is a Little First Amendment Machine.”
If this were 1776 in the Colonies, what would Mudcat say about the pamphleteers? The same things that the British said about them??
nomolos @ 96
Actually, I hope they were. Maybe it will get this issue some attention and get Mudrat sent packing.
JPL @ 52
Dunno, but I sure would like to see one of those CT scans or whatever those things are where they look at what portions of the brain are deficient. Ya’ know, like left & right brain and all that stuff. I’m guessing his “brain map” would match up to that of a known sociopath.
I guess we needed something to laugh about after the “business of the Senate” yesterday. Old HTML really kicked it last night, poor mods. And now we got crackers.
The swimming pool cold buffet, well, come on. That is darn clever if you ask me. Graduation. Not a miracle.
Oh, and plus, Gramsci on the same thread. Give it up!!
raven @ 42
Yeah why is Apple doing this? Something about the “safari engine” and the iPhone?
Just downloaded the Beta for Mac, and I can’t tell the difference.
Back On Topic, David Frum was on Hardball last night discussing some presidential right to keep Scooter out of jail until his appeal is over. Infuriating to say the least. This mantra the “there is no underlying crime” must be shot down every time any beltway moron utters it.
Tweety himself doesn’t think it’s right for Libby to fall on the sword for the Admin’s war policy, as if the lies above him should provide cover.
If you all haven’t read Glenn Greenwald latest on “Joe Klein’s stirring defense of Lewis Libby”, it’s well worth the time.
Edwards does not need a Mudcat.
He has enough ‘authenticity’ all by his lonesom.
Ge Liz on the line, she’ll agree, I’m sure.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 97
ah. I see. wish DC Circuit had such a site. They seem to rely on PACER to distribute docs.
Mack @ 104
I agree. I do not know why he is empowering Mudcat’s BS, when his message is already on target and he clearly has the credentials and ideas to begin to win over Southern (and northern and western) voters.
TiredFed @ 94
She doesn’t like Republicans. As to Fred, she’s not a fan. We we’re talking the other night about Mr. Thompson, and I mentioned I thought he might be a hard man for the Democrats to beat. She told me “you don’t know what you’re talking about”. It’s better not to openly disagree with the Aunty. She can be rather authoritarian with me. ;0)
Rayne @ 90
TiredFed @ 6:58 am -
Have you tried this link to the D.C. courts?
http://216.152.235.70/webdir.f…..hstring=DC
Do you think we’ll ever see the likes of MLK and RFK again? I have misgivings about that. Compare two Democrats: RFK and HRC.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 107
sounds like my mom. same age group and temperament. wonder what they’ll do when faced with the choice.
portia.vz @ 108
I have to generally agree, even though I do not like opera (or any other form of musical theater). I like (some) country music and bluegrass, but not NASCAR (I find it about as exciting as golf, except with crashes). It is certainly possible to play to positives in Southern culture like neighborliness, taking care of each other, and populism, without invoking the darker side as well. The South is not all rednecks and not all rednecks are bigots.
To the European elites, every American is a hick…
And here in the little midwestern village where I live, there are three different, identifiable groups of ignorant rednecks, and they all hate each other as bad as they hate you and I.
Too much classifying here, from both sides.
There’s a little “hick” in everyone, the boys from Brooklyn consider anyone from Jersey a hick; the kids in LA who go to college in Sacramento lament “the hick factor.”
Every snob has their own snob over them, every bully has a bully who’s bullier.
Everyone needs to just stop focusing on the differences between us in the Democratic Party and start focusing on the shared hopes and dreams, and maybe then we can make the changes we all see are possible.
The blanket stereotypng of every southern or country Dem as some sort of neanderthal hick, and the constant accusations of elitism towards the more cosmopolitan Dems by rank and file citizens who don’t appreciate being trivialized, isn’t doing anything for our party.
Thanks for the h/t at 76, DrDick.
I seem to have fewer problems with the admittedly cutesy and annoying Mudcat than a lot of people, but what I do see among us is a concerning willingness to write off rural voters as hillbillies and rednecks. I don’t think it’s regional; I think it’s a rural/urban split, and it’s as dangerous to dismiss rural voters as is it is to dismiss opera lovers.
On Saunders- I always relegate types like Mr. Mudcat & Carville to the “poseur” pile, as in self-styled spokemen. They don’t speak for real people, those like my family for example, coming out of god’s country Quebec & later, backwoods Maine. We had basically nothing & shot game to eat it, w/our house & every aunt’s backyard a truck garden out of necessity.
Actual rural folks come in all shapes, sizes, creeds, philosophy. Just read Annie Proulx or Eudora Welty…
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 109
I’ve tried many. For the most part, DC Circuit relies on PACER. Only one of Walton’s opinions from back in March ‘07 has been made public and is available online at Walton Opinion 310
DrDick @ 95
Agreed, although what he said and what he’s trying to do are a far cry from what needs to be done to save Edwards’ campaign (think I saw single-digit in a poll yeasterday) and Mudcat’s job. I think I’d have fired his ass before he could have spouted off if it were my campaign.
We also need to fix some serious problems in the South if we are ever to be able to win with that region. Read this post by Sara at TNH and then wonder why Mudcat is so lamely protective of the region. What has Mudcat done to overcome the problems like those Sara described — or is he a part of the ongoing years of sabotage?
Molly Ivors @ 114
I agree completely. This is the foundation of the Republican “culture wars” motif. I come from a small town background, but also spent 12 years in Chicago. There are definite differences, but also huge areas of shared concerns. I think your post today did a great deal to highlight many of these areas of mutual concern that get hidden behind superficial cultural differences.
Fitz’ response to Libby’s request for release while his appeal is pending is available here: http://www.netrootsmass.net/ex….._on_Appeal
DrDick @ 112
“The heart has its reasons that reason can not understand.”
Who knows why some people like classical and opera (as well as a lot of other stuff) and others don’t? I think it has to do with exposure at a young age but whatever. How does my taste in music make my opinions less valuable? Like I said, I’ve *lived* in the south. I went to school at the tail end of segregation. My working class neighbors had black nannies (wrap your head around THAT). I know what southern hospitality is like from the communal dinners I had that featured the stuff from the garden my parents shared with the other neighbors on our small street. There is a lot of good in the South that is slightly formal and respectful of elders, generous and with good humor. But there’s also a legacy of the pecking order. Of the aristocracy turning the poorer classes on each other. And we don’t need to hold progress back so some white guys who refuse to adapt can hang on to entitlements they no longer deserve. The sooner Mudcat accepts that, the sooner we can move on.
nomolos @ 96
[my bold]
That was a lovely wee slip of the lip. Assume your tongue was firmly planted in your cheek as you typed that last sentence. *g*
Mack @ 104
Mudcat may be controversial, but he represents the return to the fold of the southern Democrat as much as anyone else in the swamp (the real one, not the fabricated version Mudcat writes for).
Those southern Dems hold one of the keys to our future success in ridding our nation of the pernicious influence of these “all-or-nothing” Republicans, and if the intellectual elites among us can’t find a way to show some respect to this “class” of voters, they can write them back off.
Mudcat represents a very large (and malleable) mass ofg sepcial-interest voters, and when you publicly turn on people like Mudcat, no matter how insensitive and egocentric his posts might be, you turn on that entire class of voters.
Edwards NEEDS those votes.
But for all the wrong reasons (and some of the right ones), Hillary and Obama don’t have a prayer at getting those votes.
For those idiots who say “we don’t need those votes if they come with conservative strings attached” just remember the term “Reagan Democrats.” And ponder the term “blue dog.”
It is a big chess game, and we need to play like we are all on the same team, even if we disagree..
Twisted Martini @ 98
With Cracker Barrell having spread even unto upstate NY and New England, you can get biscuits and gravy AND grits just about anywhere now…
Good thing I had mudflaps on before visiting that blog, Christy. Lots of fun over there.
Some of us hillbillies, or briars as we call our bunch, live in the big city now and wear real nice shoes an everythin.
I dislike stereotyping of any kind. And I find ‘regionalism’ very distateful.
Sachem @ 103
I think Jobs likes to stick a finger in Gates’ eye every now and then. Especially since MS quit supporting IE for macs.
Sheeit. I have Hillbilly going back to the Revolutionary war. Mudcat needs to get into the current century.
OT – Nuremberg prosecutor says Guantanamo trials unfair
dakine01 said:
With Cracker Barrell having spread even unto upstate NY and New Englan, you can get biscuits and gravy AND grits just about anywhere now…
But *not* Southern sweet tea. ;-(
Mudcat is James Carville without the succubus as a spouse.
I echo the recommendation of reading Molly Ivors’ piece on rural life. Something to think about.
egregious @ 125
Yup. Some of us even have graduate degrees and talk real purty like. As I mentioned above, my mother’s family were real life hillbillies who barely survived the depression and dustbowl. It is worth noting that she and all of her siblings got college educations and both my uncles earned graduate degrees. Oh, and they were all progressive Democrats.
Rayne @ 99
Yes, I am aware of his now second blunder with bloggers. It makes you wonder who is advising him. But I still like him best of the pack.
I’m not a fan of Hillary’s war mongering and I don’t trust her. Obama’s land deal & ties with Rezko still gnaws at me…
Also, I think Edwards is a big target by the Repugs, and they will continue to try to marginalize him — he scares them even though right now he is not the top runner…
What I really like about the practice of regionalism, is that many, perhaps most, who indulge is this particularly rude form of narrowness have never been to the regions they so readily condemn. Let alone, having lived there.
TiredFed @ 36
CHS — go directly to footnote 4
on page 6! — he he! sweetly subtle
snark ensues:
“It is a strange sort of logic that infers
that the likelihood of reversal
increases with the thoroughness of a
written opinion. . .“
Waccamaw @ 130
I just never developed the taste for the tea. My mom liked the unsweetened so whenever we went to any of the aunts or uncles places for Sunday dinner, there was always a jug of unsweetened as well as the sweet tea.
But I learned to LOVE coffee at a very early age. Used ta crawl into mom or dad’s laps at about age 3-4. They’d have half a cup left and I’d ask “Can I have whut’s lay-eft.” Learned that I liked dad’s coffee (black w/sugar) rather than mom’s which was just black…
well the libby pardon is right around the door, think progress says rice is already hinting at it
so it really doesn’t matter what fitz files does it
man oh man
TiredFed @ 119
thanks to selise for hosting the file along with Hugh’s list of Bush scandals and other assorted goodies.
With the all of the fear mongering, it was just a matter of time.
From today’s LA Times
Family of deported Lancaster man sues
Described by kin as developmentally disabled, he was sent to Tijuana after being arrested for trespassing and has vanished.
http://www.latimes.com/news/lo…..ome-center
Molly Ivors @ 114
I agree. The Repugs love to see us split. But it truly time for rural and urban America to come together…North and South to save our country and Democracy.
But I don’t think Muscrat or whatever his name is ;) Is helping us unite by his ill-informed and antagonistic comments…
If youngsters in this country were properly taught the history of the Populist Movement it would be harder to make this hicks meme stick.
In my family of hicks, we have many engineers, teachers and graduates of the Air Force Academy, now serving as high ranking officers in the military. Most in our Air Force family fly jets and helicopters.
actually matt — that is not
the libby filing — i think it is
only on pacer, but i am excerpting
large chunks of team fitzs’ filing
on my blog — page by page. . .
so hit the refresh button every
ten minutes or so. . .
p e a c e
I live in Asheville, NC. Between war protests, our local arts scene, organic grocery shopping, ballet, theater, competing microbrweries, we are too busy to marry our cousins.
Rudy Giuliani takes care of that for us.
Gettin all these folks together? That’s Senator Webb’s coalition.
Fresh thread, all. part I of the analysis on the latest Libby filing.
New thread upstairs…
the smart stuff is being drowned out by a fierce, bullying, often witless tone of intolerance that has overtaken the left-wing sector of the blogosphere.
I guess Mr. Mudcat hasn’t listened to callers on C-Span or the commentary on CNN lately. Pretty harsh stuff about the administration is coming from some pretty plain spoken folks. It takes a load of shouting to get through this wall of right-wing rhetoric that has been accepted as the norm for so long, not to mention the genocidal statements of Oxybaugh and Coulter. Mr. Muddythewaters can call us intolerant elites or the unwashed masses and try to paint us as “extreme leftists.” It doesn’t matter. We’re used to the ping-pong rhetoric of the right punditocracy and so-called moderates like HoJoe. I remember a comment made by Lamont (something like): According to the Lieberman campaign, one day I’m a republican, the next day I’m Trotsky’s little brother.
Whaaaateever!
nolo @ 135
Good find in Fitz’s filing! Plain good morning snark…
“It is a strange sort of logic that infers that the likelihood of reversal increases with the thoroughness of a written
opinion”
perris @ 137
It’s been that way since Scooter was indicted. The only suprise is that it hasn’t happened yet. The Great and Powerful Decider will soon act…on orders from Cheney the Magnificent.
Brief ThinkProgress post: Supreme Court bucks administration on anti-pollution
lightly @ 141
What lightly said. I really believe that a green populism is the way to go. If he could shake this Mudcat fellow, I think Gore-Edwards could pull it off.
JEP @ 122
Read that bit I linked to upthread by Sara at TNH. If those structural problems are not addressed along with the problems in the DOJ regarding active disenfranchisement of voters under the guise of “voter fraud”, the votes in the South will not be enough to do much just as they haven’t been for some time for the very same reasons.
Mudcat is doing jack about those problems as far as I can tell.
And Edwards was already doing a fine job with the south, particularly because of his work post-Katrina in NOLA. I know African-American folks who use the candidates’ response to NOLA as their single issue for choosing a candidate, and Edwards has their vote right now.
Mudcat’s frankly stupid comments slamming bloggers puts another constituency at risk, one that has been courted by all other candidates because of its ability to rapidly muster cash, for the nebulous benefit of some equally nebulous group of voters. Proof’s in the pudding; Mudcat needs to actually pull the southern vote for Edwards and stop throwing rocks at us, when our pocketbooks make it possible to reach and win the south.
Heck yeah, Egregious! I hear you even have some Louboutins! Thems real nice shoes.
Molly Ivors @ 152
Truly said. Populism is the key to forging a winning Democratic alliance against the fundamentally elitist (in the economic sense, which is the only one which matters), Republicans. Environmentalism also has potential here as well. Here in Montana we have forged successful alliances between progressives and normally conservative ranchers and hunters over a number of environmental issues (i.e., drilling in the Front Range). Still have to be careful with this, though as it is a potentially divisive issue. Confrontations over logging in the national forests here between those concerned about the environment and those concerned about jobs.
I think ole Mudcat has been listening to Jim Webb, who I do like quite a bit, but would still like to see remove that large chip from the shoulder about all those effete NY libruls talking down to hillbillies.
He should talk to his good buddy, Tom Wolfe, who wrote a wonderful essay about this in the ’70’s making fun of Lennie and Leticia Bernstein in Radical Chic, MauMauing the Flak Catchers.
Not being able to laugh at them caused Webb to waste 15 good years in the Republican party. Be able to laugh at yourself too.
I intend to write my senator Webb a letter about this. Also, recognize how the wingnuts have played this for so long.
Everyone thought that because George (Andover,Yale, Harvard) Bush could talk like a Texas hick, that they’d like to have the asshole to a backyard barbecue and drink a beer. Talk about delusional. He learned to talk that way because he was raised by the help down in Midland Texas while Daddy and Mommy were off politiking.
But he did it mocking the people who talk like that except when they suck up and are subservient. They are the “help” after all.
Oh, Lee Atwater…you were so good to understand all the class dynamics in Murika.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 31
One of the worst things about giving up pork was effectively shutting myself out of Waffle Houses.
Some of my fondest memories of being up at three in the morning for recreational purposes (pre-child) took place in Waffle Houses.
John @ 156
Ole Mudcat has been talking to Jim Webb. He was Jim Webb’s campaign advisor.
For what it’s worth, Al Gore has been championing the blogosphere. I’ve been reading his book Assault on Reason and seen him on KO. He believes that the blogosphere is reviving debate > well-informed citzenry and participation =democracy according to our Founding fathers. Take that Muddcat!
The farmer who bought my parents’ house had read Herman Hesse when he was much younger. (Steppenwolf, ISTR.) This was in West Texas, north of Lubbock. (About as rural as you can get, I think.)
Hehe, Mudcat decries incivility…and then proceeds to engage in it:
“those Democratic bloggers, who have appointed themselves as intellectually superior and believe the only way to win an argument is to shoot the loudest with personal attacks, you can go to Hell.”
Sometimes, the term “jackass” just seems to fit.
But I do agree with him that the Democratic Party is top-heavy with elitist assholes who look down on working-class and rural voters. They don’t understand the lives or sensibilities of people who could be a powerful progressive voting bloc, if they felt like the Dems were on their side.
Rayne @ 153
Rayne, I wholeheartedly agree, Mudcat and his Southern Dems don’t seem nearly as concerned about the voting machines and caging as they are about gun rights, and that should be corrected.
If there was ever a single issue we can gather round and join together over it is the election fraud and vote caging.
Maybe it would be a good dialogue to open up with these re-awakened Southern Dems.. to encourage them to bring Election Integrity way up on their list of precious rights to protect.
Above all, White Southern Dems should be willing to encourage and enable Black Southern Dems to vote. If they can’t find a way to do that, and their only issues are gun rights and personal freedoms, we have not accomplished enough. And if they refuse to acknowledge the mutual discrimination they have suffered at the hands of a Schlotzic Republican Civil Rights Division at DOJ (now there’s an oxymoron; “Republican Civil Rights”) then we will struggle, and possibly fail once again to rid ourselves of Republican bullies.
If the Dems, Progressives and Liberals don’t figure out a way to develop a code of unity and stop this pattern of divisiveness and dissension, from “both” sides, we might have to endure a psuedo-Reagan Republican like Romney in office, vetoing everything we stand for over the next four years.
But as for civility on the Liberal Blogs, when I remember George Allen’;s infamous battle-cry “kick their soft teeth(Democrats)down their wimpy throats” (that is a paraphraze)” and Rove’s constant demonization of Dems as unforgivable evil beings, I have no sympathy for the Republicans.
If they wanted civility, they should have offered it themselves.
Now they cry foul every time someone uses the “f” word in a blog post, or identifies the Republicans by a blanket negative term, as if such swearing and insults should be reserved for the Halls of Congress and the offices in the White House.
HYPOCRITES!!!
The Golden Rule is also Karma, you get what you give and vice-versa. It is like the bully who cries to his momma whenever he gets bullied.
Our family came from Ireland, then Canada, now the Pacific Northwest. I’ve got no dog in this fight unless you’re talking about the one that was the Civil War. Is it over? I can see that certain ways of talking about southern cultural norms constitute grave insults – I get that part. What else is going on that I should know about? When I traveled the south I was called a “yankee” as an insult (that I didn’t get).
No, we’re from Washington.
OK, but D.C. isn’t really the south.
No, Washington state. We were still a territory during the Civil War.
It’s the only state that is called state because lazy media are too lazy to call the city, Washington, D.C. so people have forgotten that Washington is a state. If you google Washington, you find the city. Speaking of the Civil War, we here sometimes talk about suscession and joining British Columbia, that’s B.C. in Canada.
Christy, you and everyone else are falling for this guy DirtDog Johnson’s game. He doesn’t care what you say about him as long as you spell his name right, so I won’t. He’s a consultant trying to make a career for himself. He’s temporarily attached himself to Edwards even though it appears he opposes many of Edwards’ positions, but he’ll happily jump to anyone who will pay him. The problem is that not enough people know who he is.
So what to do? The answer he came up with is to piss off the left blogosphere, knowing that almost every Democratic pol has at least one staffer that reads the blogs, and get them to yell his name, loudly, for days and days. The fact that his “critique” is alignment with the most well-funded part of the party, the K Street wing. A few additional clients and the guy becomes a millionaire, and we helped.
The next time some faux-populist comes along and tries this stunt, I suggest not naming or linking to him. Perhaps posting general responses, talking about Bob Shrum and his horrific losing record, and mentioning that publication X ran a piece by another wannabee, would about do it.
It seems the Edwards staff hires people via knee-jerk reaction. The first brouhaha with bloggers and he didn’t know which way was up. Now we have Mudcat shootin’ his mouth off, demonizing the netroots. If these candidates don’t distance themselves from the DLC and its policies there’s gonna be a price to pay. I’ve said it all along, unless and until we get at least the House with more progressive members, we’re going nowhere. Now all we have to do is convince Dean that Republican Lite ain’t gettin’ it. And as usual, if ya want anything done right, ya gotta do it yerself. That leaves us to organize in the churches, social clubs, all those local venues where we can reach the everyday American. If we don’t, we’re toast.
Thanks for this piece. A lot of us in the South actually are reasonably progressive, and some flaming libruls…
Someone need to realize that the South has been played by ‘identity politics’, ruthlessly spinning
the sort of junk ‘Mudcat’ (heh) spews out.
Stop talking down to folks. Stop letting the Right frame you. Almost everyone I know is fed up with the Bushes and the Republican’s fear campaign.
Right On Christie!
I left West Virginia decades ago, but nothing makes me want to “whup ass” more than listening to some elitist trying to “hillbilly up.”
Alice @ 70
There won’t be any war crimes trials anyway. It just isn’t our law.
No, I figure whomever becomes president will be very very busy straightening out a bunch of the Bush messes.
Of course, being the cynic that I can be, I expect the Repubs to create those messes and federal debts just to tie us up, so we can’t do our own plans. Sad really.
Yeah, I go along with the idea that Hillary is their best hope for the Dem party, so regardless of who wins the general election they’ll get pretty much whatever they want.
JEP @ 122
If you’re gonna govern all of America ya gotta eat some grits.
My only caution for Edwards & Trippi would be that their message, even if delivered by someone other than Edwards, should be positive, upbeat and inclusive.
Jane Hamsher @ 21
As someone who had the displeasure of meeting mudcat at YK also(at the volunteer recognition cocktail party), I had the distinct opinion that he thought a lot more of himself than I did. There were some young men sharing a table with me who were practically prostrating themselves before this so-called God of Democratic wisdom which added to my distain of the whole encounter. As an Edwards supporter, I’m very disappointed that the campaign has hired this phony insider consultant.