PW!

One of the first!!!

Living downunder and with no cable I have never encountered Lou Dobbs, I guess that is a good thing.

We told them downstairs that we’re here.

Dobbs is the one Flanders called out for using “illegal aliens” instead of “illegal immigrants”. Sadly, Time Magazine used the term “illegal aliens” in its cover story this week. Racists abound.

G’day AnnieW I haven’t noticed you at the Lake before, so if you’re new, welcome. If I’m just out of touch, well that’s normal.

Stirring up racism on national television is sick and dangerous. I’ve seen windows of Hispanic stores smashed. I’ve seen teenagers threatening immigrant workers and read about them being beaten up and killed. Racism is ignorance and the real racists are all stupid, because it doesn’t make sense, unless they have an agenda. So what’s Dodd’s agenda? Power? Money? Something like that, I guess. He’s sure getting a lot of attention for spouting those lies.

waves to pete — and wrt to Lou Dobbs, consider yourself lucky that you’ve never encountered him!

Dobbs has built his career on thinly (and not so thinly) veiled racism and being a shill for the corporatocracy. Racism disguised as populism is still racism.

Back in the 60’s Lenny Bruce had a rant about sex and violence and how we treated them so differently. Violence was fine, but sex, even loving romantic sex was off limits on TV. It’s sad that racism has joined the list of appalling things that we don’t think are obscene, and sex still is. Strange world.

((waives to LoudounLib))

My low food warning light just came on, so I’ll see everyone after dinner.

We all know that racism is used to divide the “common” people. The corporate jerks have no respect for any of us. We aren’t them. We aren’t relevant. We (middle class, working class, public housing class) are to be sucked dry and thrown away.

Slothrop is proud to have contributed to the Southern Poverty Law Center since 1977…it’s easy to make a contribution…you just go right here.

Tell Morris Dees I said hello.

Nice Job, PW!!! I think Dees of the SPLC would make an excellent Anchorman!!! *g*

I think people have a tendency to think, well, he does have a Latina wife so therefore he can’t really be a racist. As a matter of fact, they were interviewed as a couple and the perception was that she was even MORE rightwing than he is.

But this of course is an illusion. Her presence merely gives him cover to say the things he couldn’t say if he couldn’t answer charges of racism with “Hey, I’ve got a Latina wife!”

Dobbs’ nativism has a populist appeal to displaced blue collar workers who erroneously see their plight as the fault of impoverished fellow victims from over the border. The shifting predation of the free market towards cheaper and cheaper labor—-taking manufacturers from the Northeast to the American South, then Mexico, the Philippines, and finally—slave labor in China—-is an ugly facet of American business life that will not change until our political leadership changes—-and that includes the leadership in ALL nations, not just the US.

G’day Pete, I don’t write this early in the day regularly…but am a very regular lurker.

As for Dobbs, he’s not a corpratist.

He may well be a racist, but I’d put him closer to Pat Buchanan style of populism (and/or racism), versus your typical “if it’s good for Wall Street it’s good for everybody” Republican corpratist.

He’s anti-NAFTA, pro minimum wage increase, etc.

I don’t like him, but he has a weird appeal to many union types because he plays to their fears and complains that R’s sell them out and Dems do nothing to stop it.

Plenty of racism left in this country even if Dobbs wasn’t being such a dweeb. He does have a responsibility given his public pulpit to actually listen to people who respectfully disagree with him. A reasonable person can assume that Mr. Dobbs mind is closed on this subject.

Slothrop @ 13

Slothrop is proud to have contributed to the Southern Poverty Law Center since 1977…it’s easy to make a contribution…you just go right here.

Tell Morris Dees I said hello.

And it’s ALMOST worth making a special trip to Montgomery just to visit the SPLC and see the monument to the Civil Rights Martyrs. It was designed by the same woman who did The Wall.

I do not think Lou Dobbs and his “facts” will simply fade away if unchallenged. I also do not believe challenging him gives him importance. He has importance. He has an incredibly powerful platform, and his “facts” should be challenged every time he spouts them.

I understand the concern — “do we give him attention he otherwise wouldn’t get?” — because we process our proposed posts about the much-less-important Malkin, Goldberg, and Howell that way. It’s always a dilemma: are their trangressions worth the extra clicks we’ll provide??

But Uncle Lou Dobbs? No, he is best served by careful challenges — he can be debunked very thoroughly. Exposing his “facts” doesn’t grow his audience; it shrinks his credibility. And that’s a good thing. Lou Dobbs must accept responsibility for the “nativist” Confederate-flag-waving support he engenders. It is the rotten core of his support.

Excellent and thought-provoking post, PW. It’s always important to balance whether the challenge to the underlying “facts” is important; in Lou’s case, it’s very important.

AZ Matt @ 17

Plenty of racism left in this country even if Dobbs wasn’t being such a dweeb. He does have a responsibility given his public pulpit to actually listen to people who respectfully disagree with him. A reasonable person can assume that Mr. Dobbs mind is closed on this subject.

All racists have closed minds. I grew up in the south and I find that racists always need someone to feel BETTER than. When people speak of aliens, I always think of little green men or Mr. Spock.

Hello, everyone!

PW!!!

By the way: Everyone getting onto the website OK? It’s been iffy for me, but that just might be my iffy internet connection.

Phoenix Woman @ 21

Hello, everyone!

How’s your head feeling? I have some Head-On to spare!!! *g*

Howdy PW…step away from the desk, slowly. We want Mr. Dobbs to pound his head into the desk, not people we like.

I’ve lost connection to FDL twice since your post…but it works eventually.

Thanks PW for your post.

I have found that Mexicans are often very racist among themselves. People with more Spanish blood consider themselves above people with more Indian blood. People from the cities consider themselves above people from the Pueblos. This is just an observation, I haven’t read formal studies about it, but I’ll betcha. Wonder where Dobb’s wife fits in on the Mexican heirarchy?

TeddySanFran @ 19

I do not think Lou Dobbs and his “facts” will simply fade away if unchallenged. I also do not believe challenging him gives him importance. He has importance. He has an incredibly powerful platform, and his “facts” should be challenged every time he spouts them.

I understand the concern — “do we give him attention he otherwise wouldn’t get?” — because we process our proposed posts about the much-less-important Malkin, Goldberg, and Howell that way. It’s always a dilemma: are their trangressions worth the extra clicks we’ll provide??

But Uncle Lou Dobbs? No, he is best served by careful challenges — he can be debunked very thoroughly. Exposing his “facts” doesn’t grow his audience; it shrinks his credibility. And that’s a good thing. Lou Dobbs must accept responsibility for the “nativist” Confederate-flag-waving support he engenders. It is the rotten core of his support.

Excellent and thought-provoking post, PW. It’s always important to balance whether the challenge to the underlying “facts” is important; in Lou’s case, it’s very important.

Dobbs and his ilk need to be dragged into the public square and challenged to be factual off their own sets.

Phoenix Woman @ 23

By the way: Everyone getting onto the website OK? It’s been iffy for me, but that just might be my iffy internet connection.

I little flaky tonight; comments don’t post easily.

Glad you’re taking Lou on. He’s an irresponsible, hurtful bully, wasting his talent to pick on those unable to protect themselves.

Miami Cubans can be pretty tight about how special they are, too.

Twain @ 20

When people speak of aliens, I always think of little green men or Mr. Spock.

That is illogical. ;-)

Phoenix Woman @ 23

By the way: Everyone getting onto the website OK? It’s been iffy for me, but that just might be my iffy internet connection.

It’s been iffy for the last few days, PW. Not getting on (for me at least), but commenting etc. has been jarbled.

Hugh @ 31

Twain @ 20

When people speak of aliens, I always think of little green men or Mr. Spock.

That is illogical. ;-)

707!!!

Hugh @ 31

Twain @ 20

When people speak of aliens, I always think of little green men or Mr. Spock.

That is illogical. ;-)

Yes, it is but it’s better than a mind-meld!

Loo Hoo. @ 27

I have found that Mexicans are often very racist among themselves. People with more Spanish blood consider themselves above people with more Indian blood. People from the cities consider themselves above people from the Pueblos. This is just an observation, I haven’t read formal studies about it, but I’ll betcha. Wonder where Dobb’s wife fits in on the Mexican heirarchy?

Loo Hoo, from my experience growing up among the descendents of the Conquistadors, a bad name to call someone was “Mexican” and worse than that was “Indian.” I think this has changed and lessened, but I’m not there so I don’t know for sure.

Phoenix Woman @ 23

By the way: Everyone getting onto the website OK? It’s been iffy for me, but that just might be my iffy internet connection.

I couldn’t get in through the front door; I came in from downstairs. It was giving me ‘page not found’ or some such.

Dobbs reminds me of one of those good ol’ boys who claims not to be racist, but never quite stops putting down anyone who isn’t white (and male). And they’ll badmouth minorities if they think everyone around them thinks the same way. (’Closet racist’, maybe?)

Loo Hoo. @ 32

Phoenix Woman @ 23

By the way: Everyone getting onto the website OK? It’s been iffy for me, but that just might be my iffy internet connection.

It’s been iffy for the last few days, PW. Not getting on (for me at least), but commenting etc. has been jarbled.

Ever since the Left-Hand slant, it has been clunky and funky, however there have been marked improvements made to resolve many of the issues!!! I have faith in the Mods!!! *g*

I know it is off-topic and everything but…

So, how many Firepups are still enamored of Obama and Dodd? They couldn’t be bothered to vote in the Gonzales no-confidence vote. Neither did Biden but he had no chance in hell anyway, but Obama and Dodd? I’m not going to let their political cowardice slide. They do not get a dime of my support, not my vote, no matter what.

I cannot and will not forgive failure to lead, nor political or moral cowardice. They no longer exist to me.

It is fast approaching the point where if Gore DOESN’T run, then I wont be able to cast a vote for President next year because Hillary is a NO WAY and now Obama and Dodd have taken themselves out of contention to me. That leaves Edwards and Richardson, and Richardson is getting close to winning because of his promise to have NO troops. None at all. In Iraq if he is elected.

That works for me.

Margot @ 35

Loo Hoo. @ 27

I have found that Mexicans are often very racist among themselves. People with more Spanish blood consider themselves above people with more Indian blood. People from the cities consider themselves above people from the Pueblos. This is just an observation, I haven’t read formal studies about it, but I’ll betcha. Wonder where Dobb’s wife fits in on the Mexican heirarchy?

Loo Hoo, from my experience growing up among the descendents of the Conquistadors, a bad name to call someone was “Mexican” and worse than that was “Indian.” I think this has changed and lessened, but I’m not there so I don’t know for sure.

ummmm…not so much….

especially up north, there’s a lot of tension between the arrivistas and the nativos…

the mexicans are not loved…but they CAN assimilate with the nativos a LOT more easily, mas facil, than with the anglo community, which has a default place in it for both the nativos and the indigenos that is the template along which both other groups’ relations are structured…

los indios were pretty tight with the vatos along the rio nambe, last time i was up there. the mexicans were there, too, and there was friction with the nativo men & boys in school.
.

Love them Mods, CTuttle!

hi Margot!!!
when ya comin back to new mexico?

Loo Hoo. @ 40

Love them Mods, CTuttle!

Hey, I know the Hand that feeds…!!! ;-O

Desk-On: Apply directly to the forehead.

Praedor Atrebates @ 38

I know it is off-topic and everything but…

So, how many Firepups are still enamored of Obama and Dodd? They couldn’t be bothered to vote in the Gonzales no-confidence vote. Neither did Biden but he had no chance in hell anyway, but Obama and Dodd? I’m not going to let their political cowardice slide. They do not get a dime of my support, not my vote, no matter what.

I cannot and will not forgive failure to lead, nor political or moral cowardice. They no longer exist to me.

It is fast approaching the point where if Gore DOESN’T run, then I wont be able to cast a vote for President next year because Hillary is a NO WAY and now Obama and Dodd have taken themselves out of contention to me. That leaves Edwards and Richardson, and Richardson is getting close to winning because of his promise to have NO troops. None at all. In Iraq if he is elected.

That works for me.

There is no way I won’t vote for a Dem over a Repug. Problem is Hillary knows this about most of us.

Dobbs is a nut, which is a pity since if you could slice out a tiny bit of that anti-corporate working man stuff you would have a real advocate for the 97% of us in the USA, and 99.5% of us on Earth that don’t lay golden eggs.

Praedor Atrebates @ 38

I know it is off-topic and everything but…

So, how many Firepups are still enamored of Obama and Dodd? They couldn’t be bothered to vote in the Gonzales no-confidence vote. Neither did Biden but he had no chance in hell anyway, but Obama and Dodd? I’m not going to let their political cowardice slide. They do not get a dime of my support, not my vote, no matter what.

I cannot and will not forgive failure to lead, nor political or moral cowardice. They no longer exist to me.

It is fast approaching the point where if Gore DOESN’T run, then I wont be able to cast a vote for President next year because Hillary is a NO WAY and now Obama and Dodd have taken themselves out of contention to me. That leaves Edwards and Richardson, and Richardson is getting close to winning because of his promise to have NO troops. None at all. In Iraq if he is elected.

That works for me.

Obama, Dodd, Biden, Clinton are definitely out for me, but I favor Edwards because of his health care policies … and Elizabeth. I’d vote for her for President if she’d run.

Phoenix Woman @ 43

Desk-On: Apply directly to the forehead.

Now, Now, Ma’am! No need to be sadistic about it!!! ;-)

it just quit raining here…
the water’s drippin outta th’ rain-gutter
splashing in a pool which is also where an old and formidable rose lives.
the birds are alert and all about.
the sky is still cloudy, but the storm has passed, as storms hereabouts do, swiftly.
tomorrow will be a good day to pull up weeds in the dog-yard…the sandy soil will easily yield their profligate roots to the leverage my body provides. they haven’t a chance…
well, one: they might outnumber me

OT:

Obama and some of the (to me) lesser Dem candidates did not show for the vote? The lack of sticking together as a pary is bad enough (missing the vote, not working agaist Joe Lieberman) – but to heck with this I am not going to vote for Obama now.

They better get their stuff together right now.

We used to work out in the gym from 4:30 PM until 6:30 PM. About 6 months ago Lou had gotten SO bad we decided to work out from 6AM until 8AM. CNN is almost bearable at the earlier hour.

Is he running for king or something?! Why does CCN let this “one pony guy” stay on the air?

per some other folks here I am voting Edwards as well. He is (in a poll) slipping in NH which sucks, but I live here and will do what I can.

hychka @ 50

We used to work out in the gym from 4:30 PM until 6:30 PM. About 6 months ago Lou had gotten SO bad we decided to work out from 6AM until 8AM. CNN is almost bearable at the earlier hour.

Is he running for king or something?! Why does CCN let this “one pony guy” stay on the air?
MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!

Lieberman’s reasoning(the wanker) for today’s vote:

“My vote against going ahead with more debate on this no confidence resolution is not an expression of confidence in Attorney General Gonzales. It is an expression of opposition to spending any more time on a resolution that will accomplish nothing, instead of going ahead with the next item of business, which is energy legislation. If we work urgently together on energy legislation, we can accomplish something that is truly important to the American people.

“As I have said before, Attorney General Gonzales is the chief law enforcement officer of the United States, and it’s time for him to really look into his own heart and soul, as tough as it is, and ask whether he should continue in this job. And it is time for the Senate to move on right now to do something about energy prices supplies and energy prices.”

PS. I was watching MSNBC and Abrams sucks – he is worse than any journalist FOX has, and he is more smarmy to boot.

If they cancel KO then its KO for them, they got nothing. He is the GM or whatever and is terrible.

OT Lieberman’s statement on his Gonzales vote today.

“My vote against going ahead with more debate on this no confidence resolution is not an expression of confidence in Attorney General Gonzales. It is an expression of opposition to spending any more time on a resolution that will accomplish nothing, instead of going ahead with the next item of business, which is energy legislation. If we work urgently together on energy legislation, we can accomplish something that is truly important to the American people.

“As I have said before, Attorney General Gonzales is the chief law enforcement officer of the United States, and it’s time for him to really look into his own heart and soul, as tough as it is, and ask whether he should continue in this job. And it is time for the Senate to move on right now to do something about energy prices supplies and energy prices.”

WTF? The Senate just spent 2 weeks on an immigration bill that was going nowhere but Holy Joe couldn’t be bothered to spend an hour to vote no confidence in the worst Attorney General in our history.

Shorter version: I was in too big a hurry to vote my conscience.

Of course, this is an obviously flawed argument. Since when did backstabbing, lying Joe ever have a conscience?

redx @ 51

per some other folks here I am voting Edwards as well. He is (in a poll) slipping in NH which sucks, but I live here and will do what I can.

Right On!!! I used to live in Enfield, right on Lake Mascoma!!!

Don’t get me started on the Lieberputz. We’d be here all damn night.

Is there anything that Joe Lieberman agrees with the Dems on anymore?

AZ Matt @ 53

Beat me out by 2 comments.

redx @ 54

PS. I was watching MSNBC and Abrams sucks – he is worse than any journalist FOX has, and he is more smarmy to boot.

If they cancel KO then its KO for them, they got nothing. He is the GM or whatever and is terrible.

Is KO at risk?

AnnieW @ 58

Is there anything that Joe Lieberman agrees with the Dems on anymore?

I hope not ! We’re in bad shape if he does. What a squishy little man.

redx @ 51

per some other folks here I am voting Edwards as well. He is (in a poll) slipping in NH which sucks, but I live here and will do what I can.

Yeah, I just saw that Hillary’s lead had jumped-up heavily at Edward’s expense in NH.

Sen. Clinton will galvanize the Republicans like no other.

-GSD

Hugh @ 59

AZ Matt @ 53

Beat me out by 2 comments.

Ya but you got some good whacks in on the whacko!

Joe Lieberman is so squishy he could be easily poured into a Jell-o mold.

For him I would choose a mold that looks like an asshole and I’d use chocolate pudding.

-GSD

hychka @ 50

We used to work out in the gym from 4:30 PM until 6:30 PM. About 6 months ago Lou had gotten SO bad we decided to work out from 6AM until 8AM. CNN is almost bearable at the earlier hour.

Is he running for king or something?! Why does CCN let this “one pony guy” stay on the air?

I would not be surprised if Dobbs thought he had electability.

Sen. Clinton will galvanize the Republicans like no other.

But not the Dems, that’s what sucks.

Let’s see if anyone wants immigration to be limited then it is racist.
If anyone wants are borders to be secured it’s racist.
If anyone desires proof of securing our borders before implementing all the necessary means to make that so is racist.

Is allowing the Mexican State to continue have one of the worst divisions of wealth between rich and poorbecause our country acts a relief valve from political pressure internally also a racist.

Suppose that imigration reform took the form of allowing the same number of immigrants from all countries applying to immigrate including Africa, China, Iraq as examples; but every country in the world but legally. Would that be racist. I don’t here many folks arguing to allow a vast increase in immigration from Iraq when this country has caused about 5 million refugees.

Sane immigration policy. Impliment the laws and enforcement allowing the control of legal immigration. Enforce laws against hiring illegal immigrants with penalties that would close businesses if they cheated. Then increase legal immigration levels for all countries while implementating the technology to speed up processing.

AZ Matt @ 53

Lieberman’s reasoning(the wanker) for today’s vote:

“As I have said before, Attorney General Gonzales is the chief law enforcement officer of the United States, and it’s time for him to really look into his own heart and soul, as tough as it is, and ask whether he should continue in this job. And it is time for the Senate to move on right now to do something about energy prices supplies and energy prices.”

Because the US Senate has so much control over oil prices.

It was said not long ago that the Coultergeist needs publicity the way that a tapeworm needs a functioning intestine. In the same spirit, one could say that Joe Lieberman
needs a microphone the way that Ebola needs a bodily fluid.

AnnieW @ 66

Sen. Clinton will galvanize the Republicans like no other.

But not the Dems, that’s what sucks.

She’s a Gooper twofer. But Rupert Murdoch likes her.

-GSD

Two WAY OT points from the NY Times:
Phillies losingest sports team of all time – approaching 10K losses.

Apple releasing Safari version for windows.

we all are just gonna have to find the least objectionable one to support…

that’s been my dilemma since ‘68…
.

The first thing this country should do to solve the immigration problem is to put in jail or fine heavily the employers who are using the immigrants as a cheap form of labor. I am not that concerned about the brown people crossing our southern border. And we should take in every last one of the Iraqi refugees that we helped to create. And pay them for their losses.

wgg – -nice poem about the rain, thanks!

wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 71

we all are just gonna have to find the least objectionable one to support…

that’s been my dilemma since ‘68…
.

The silver lining is that John Kerry will not be the nominee. (smiling)

GSD @ 62

redx @ 51

per some other folks here I am voting Edwards as well. He is (in a poll) slipping in NH which sucks, but I live here and will do what I can.

Yeah, I just saw that Hillary’s lead had jumped-up heavily at Edward’s expense in NH.

Sen. Clinton will galvanize the Republicans like no other.

-GSD

Wherein we must steel our resolve to actively participate and insure that we vote! Early and often, we need to shape our ticket, and, Vote!!! I would prefer another candidate than Hill, but I would not hesitate to pull the lever for her in the General!!! My $.02!!!

Apple link

if you’re a sympathizer of Mark Twain, you gotta believe the Senate is doing its level best when pre-occupied with trivia such as today’s no confidence vote…

cuz at least they’re not real busy fucking up the important stuff…
/

wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 71

we all are just gonna have to find the least objectionable one to support…

that’s been my dilemma since ‘68…
.

I don’t feel that way. Actually, I like them all. When they debate, they all impress me. When the repubs debate, frankly, I’m embarassed. And when one of them wins the presidency, I hope there’s a role for the other candidates. (and Wesley Clarke needs to be in the 2009 admin. too)

thank you, teddy

The Blessed Virgin, a tourists curse.

So much for faith-based vacations.

-GSD

GSD @ 80

The Blessed Virgin, a tourists curse.

So much for faith-based vacations.

-GSD

Better than faithless-based vacations.

But when he’s called on his nonsense by well-informed critics such as the Southern Poverty Law Center, the critics in turn are attacked because they are allegedly — wait for it — “equally to blame for Dobbs’ overexposure”.

Who attacked the critics, and where? DiversityInc is not specific.

GSD @ 80

The Blessed Virgin, a tourists curse.

So much for faith-based vacations.

-GSD

i’ve always been skeptical about mudgeghori…

it’s a faroukin pr nightmare…

the virgin would never have pulled such a lame stunt

earlier appearances at fatima and lourdes, a couple of ecstatic nuns once in a while…

but medjegore? spell it three times the same way…i defy you…

and deities are–or at least should fucking be–smarter than that.
.

My hope is that dissatisfaction with George Bush translates into dissatification with the GOP.

Charles Riley @ 67

Let’s see if anyone wants immigration to be limited then it is racist.
If anyone wants are borders to be secured it’s racist.

No, it’s not. But Dobbs does a disservice to himself and the cause when he brings up leprosy or some other weird ass disease as a reason to oppose open borders.

The people that this appeals to frequently are racist and/or paranoid.

Is allowing the Mexican State to continue have one of the worst divisions of wealth between rich and poorbecause our country acts a relief valve from political pressure internally also a racist.,

No it’s not. This is a legit criticism.

Mexico is letting millions of people, many of them disenfranchised, come to the US and many of them send a sizeable chunk of their income home to support their families. This is a win-win for Mexico.

These are people that if remained home and without prospects could cause quite a bit of upheaval in the system.

Impliment the laws and enforcement allowing the control of legal immigration. Enforce laws against hiring illegal immigrants with penalties that would close businesses if they cheated. Then increase legal immigration levels for all countries while implementating the technology to speed up processing.

Here’s another point where you, me and Dobbs agree. Go after the businesses that hire them if you want to truly stop the influx.

I know that many undocumented workers work for individual homeowners, but they are not risking everything to get here to dig a ditch for some homeowner that picks them up from a group of guys looking for work at Home Depot. If there were no jobs, the rush to get here would slow down considerably.

The ABSOLUTELY worst thing about immigration reform law is the guest worker portion.

Good lord, either let them come here and have a chance, or don’t.

But allowing the workers to come here as a “guest” is worse than being undocumented. At least now, there is some risk for an employer who abuse his workers, since the employer is breaking the law, too.

Gotta agree with Solai (once again), #78. The Democrats in this race are so much better than the R’s as to almost constitute a different species. To punish a good candidate for not being perfect, and thus allow the election of a truly bad Republican, is unthinkable to me.

The sense here is that my party, the Democratic Party is not connecting with the American people on several issues. Beginning with Iraq and how to pay the bills and make ends meet from month to month.

RonD @ 86

Gotta agree with Solai (once again), #78. The Democrats in this race are so much better than the R’s as to almost constitute a different species. To punish a good candidate for not being perfect, and thus allow the election of a truly bad Republican, is unthinkable to me.

I don’t love Hillary, it’s true, but I would have no problem voting for her, she’s miles above any of the R’s running.

I was very happy with all of our candidates in the last debate and only because of today’s vote about AGAG do I feel angry at Obama, Dodd & Biden.

Midget-gory?

-GSD

RonD @ 86

Gotta agree with Solai (once again), #78. The Democrats in this race are so much better than the R’s as to almost constitute a different species. To punish a good candidate for not being perfect, and thus allow the election of a truly bad Republican, is unthinkable to me.

i will not vote for or support a candidate who i believe does not actually represent me, in certain important ways, or one who i already suspect/expect will sacrifice a vital interest of mine for expediency or material gain.

it’s true: i have a hell of a time finding candidates to support…

Is there some logical reason that I’m missing? Why did Obama, Dodd and Biden miss today’s vote?

Hey, are the left-wing netroots full of Ivory tower liberal elites sipping latte’s and going to the Metropolitan Opera or a bunch of 20 year olds smoking dope in their parents basement and blogging in their patchouli stanking pajammies?

Inquiring minds.

-GSD

GSD @ 92

Hey, are the left-wing netroots full of Ivory tower liberal elites sipping latte’s and going to the Metropolitan Opera or a bunch of 20 year olds smoking dope in their parents basement and blogging in their patchouli stanking pajammies?

Inquiring minds.

-GSD

Yes.

I am sorry to report that I have never developed much of a taste for opera. Lattes are a bit of a waste of calories…

GSD @ 92

Hey, are the left-wing netroots full of Ivory tower liberal elites sipping latte’s and going to the Metropolitan Opera or a bunch of 20 year olds smoking dope in their parents basement and blogging in their patchouli stanking pajammies?

Inquiring minds.

-GSD

Is there a middle ground? I don’t seem to fit either one. I will vote for a Democrat no matter what.

Bush took a budget of 1.9 trillion when he took office and now it is 2.9 trillion, except for Medicare, Part D, what is he spending the money on?
PS The war is off budget $50 billion for the Air Force in October 2006, and $100 billion for the War in May.

GSD @ 92

Hey, are the left-wing netroots full of Ivory tower liberal elites sipping latte’s and going to the Metropolitan Opera or a bunch of 20 year olds smoking dope in their parents basement and blogging in their patchouli stanking pajammies?

LOL…but what if I’m a state school educated liberal in her 40’s in my jammies with a latte in my parent’s basement? They drug test at work so dope is only for my cool friends….

GSD @ 92

Hey, are the left-wing netroots full of Ivory tower liberal elites sipping latte’s and going to the Metropolitan Opera or a bunch of 20 year olds smoking dope in their parents basement and blogging in their patchouli stanking pajammies?

Inquiring minds.

-GSD

I’m in, as long as you buy me the Met tickets.

I’d like to spill my Dunkin Donuts coffee on Pudcat, I mean Mudcat Saunders, is all I’m saying.

-GSD

WTL #90,
I appreciate your position, and have long felt the same way; but any more,the stakes are so high, and the consequences of continuing Republican rule so dangerous, that I have often had to vote for someone I was less than 100% behind, simply to avoid LOSING COMPLETELY by allowing the election of some of the goose-stepping crazoids that the R’s seem to be ok with.
I do feel your pain.

Hi y’all!

I am sitting in my basement (parents deceased some years now).
My wife, upstairs with our pink-eyed daughter has a bottle of patchouli which she likes very much.
Oh and she is of Mexican descent as well, which might make me a racist.

New post up called Habeas Corpus starts to return

GSD @ 99

I’d like to spill my Dunkin Donuts coffee on Pudcat, I mean Mudcat Saunders, is all I’m saying.

-GSD

Like Joke Line, he feels threatened, rather than empowered, by the roots.

GSD @ 92

Hey, are the left-wing netroots full of Ivory tower liberal elites sipping latte’s and going to the Metropolitan Opera or a bunch of 20 year olds smoking dope in their parents basement and blogging in their patchouli stanking pajammies?

Inquiring minds.

-GSD

No. They are little old ladies sittin at home gettin more pissed by the minute waitin for the rest of America to frickin wake up.

With the Rethugs it’s a priority of evils and racism is more important than the social agenda. The new Hispanics are now 37% fundie xtians and are more anti-gay and anti-abortion than the Euro-American fundies. The best thing that Johnson did was drive the racist wing of the Dem party into the Repub.party.

Froomkin on immigration/Bush:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..pidtopnews

SnarKassandra @ 103

New post up called Habeas Corpus starts to return

Nice Job, Cassie!!! Is the homefront back to some semblance of normalcy??? *g*

Hi Cassie,

Keep up the good work.

-GSD

Hi Cassie! Vacation tomorrow, isn’t it?

CTuttle @ 108

SnarKassandra @ 103

New post up called Habeas Corpus starts to return

Nice Job, Cassie!!! Is the homefront back to some semblance of normalcy??? *g*

YES!!!! They all left, and some of them were even nice to me by the end. But people can be stupid sometimes.

I am glad we’re back to just us. But my brother and I get to go on vacation for a few days tomorrow and wednesday and thursday. I am bringing my laptop but mostly we’ll be at the beach and stuff.

Steve @ 106

With the Rethugs it’s a priority of evils and racism is more important than the social agenda. The new Hispanics are now 37% fundie xtians and are more anti-gay and anti-abortion than the Euro-American fundies. The best thing that Johnson did was drive the racist wing of the Dem party into the Repub.party.

Explains the pandering visit with Jr and the Vatican..

AnnieW @ 58

Is there anything that Joe Lieberman agrees with the Dems on anymore?

I’d like to point out that at least CSpan didn’t call him a Democrat – their summation said that “all democrats present” voted for cloture.

ergo, Joe = Not a democrat

Sounds very nice, Cassie. Take a few days, unplug, unwind, sand and waves and seagulls and sunsets-the good fight will be here when you get back.
Enjoy your vacation. You’ve earned it.

Mary McCurnin @ 72

The first thing this country should do to solve the immigration problem is to put in jail or fine heavily the employers who are using the immigrants as a cheap form of labor. I am not that concerned about the brown people crossing our southern border. And we should take in every last one of the Iraqi refugees that we helped to create. And pay them for their losses.

As a matter of fact, this is Lou Dobbs’ position too. At the risk of being yelled at, I wonder how many people who scream about Lou Dobbs watch enough of him to know what his positions really are.

I come from working people and I am a working person. I’ve seen the wages of my “class” of people be depressed and the very jobs themselves be disappeared to the point of despair. Lou Dobbs is the only person with a national voice who talks about the systemic obliteration of my class.

He is not racist. He is anti-corporate greed and he is against the employement of illegal workers. I watch him almost every day, and if he is a racist then I guess I am too but just can’t see it in myself, poor stupid me.

I understand that it is dangerous to complain about how illegal workers drive down the wages and degrade the working conditions of legitimate workers. When so many of those illegal workers seem to be of one ethnicity, people might start to think the issue is an ethnic issue.

The only color I’m anxious about is green.

It’s all very nice to care about the poor downtrodden others when you’ve got your own nut covered and will have it covered for the rest of your life and the only problem you have is which Ivy League school your kiddies will get into. But for working people in this country, the dream has become a nightmare and Lou Dobbs is the only one who seems to see that.

And don’t you think the powers that be are just delighted to watch the progressives be diverted by questions of race?

I truly apologize if I’ve rubbed anyone the wrong way — but how about a little sensitivity to the people whose lives the presence of those illegal workers is destroying?

What I wish: That the collective will of this country will soon result in a wave of illegal employers (Dobbs’s term) being thrown in jail for their hiring practices. Nothing will ever be solved by going after the poor ants — it’s the honey that’s got to be cleaned up.

Alert: Condi, if you’re reading this,
Ferragamo is having a sale.

Meanwhile, the birthpangs of the new Middle East are a bitch.

boing (voice of Roone Arledge from ABC’s Wide World of Sports) “Oh no, looks like she tripped over something on her takeoff, folks. (Spah-lash) Oowwwww, that’ll leave a mark. (winces and gasps from the crowd) I can’t recall ever – Sandy, do you recall when was the last time you saw a bellyflop at an event like this?”

Who left the blanketly blank latte cup on the diving board?

SnarKassandra @ 101

Hi y’all!

Hey Cassie! Your blackmail attempts will no longer have me quaking in fear…I have outed myself.

SnarKassandra @ 111

CTuttle @ 108

Nice Job, Cassie!!! Is the homefront back to some semblance of normalcy??? *g*

YES!!!! They all left, and some of them were even nice to me by the end. But people can be stupid sometimes.

I am glad we’re back to just us. But my brother and I get to go on vacation for a few days tomorrow and wednesday and thursday. I am bringing my laptop but mostly we’ll be at the beach and stuff.

I agree, people can be stupid, particularly relatives!!! Galveston/South Padre, or Lake shores?

Loo Hoo. @ 27

I have found that Mexicans are often very racist among themselves. People with more Spanish blood consider themselves above people with more Indian blood. People from the cities consider themselves above people from the Pueblos. This is just an observation, I haven’t read formal studies about it, but I’ll betcha. Wonder where Dobb’s wife fits in on the Mexican heirarchy?

I recently attended a research presentation from a sociologist from Peru who was examining this dynamic as it related to instances of domestic violence. She was a native Peruvian, and her sense was that this was prevalent throughout much of Latin America.

She mentioned that one of the ways it was expressed in Peru was that the elite class identified itself as Western, but excluded rural, poor, and people with any markers of being indigenous.

This day in 1962, the Port Huron Statement was published…where were you in ‘62?

me? in the summer of ‘62 i was up to my sweat glands in art and debauchery, and i was just a few months past my 16th birthday.

that summer i landed a plum, 40-50 hr/wk job on the crew of the santa fe opera as a apprentice set builder and stage hand. i paid into social security that summer for the first time. i was large (6′1, 180) for the time and place, and had a nominal familiarity with hand-tools. it was an incredibly cool summer. i was seduced by a 26-year-old apprentice mezzo-soprano from Queens; she drove a mercedes coupe…

i turned pages for igor stravinsky at a cocktail party while, on the piano–he must have been 80–he accompanied george shirley who sang summertime…i drank scotch, smoked weed, and swam naked with a lot of other stoned, drinking naked people in a fantasy swimming pool belonging to a very wealthy opera patron at the closing party for Tosca.
true stories
/

Suzanne @ 117

boing (voice of Roone Arledge from ABC’s Wide World of Sports) “Oh no, looks like she tripped over something on her takeoff, folks. (Spah-lash) Oowwwww, that’ll leave a mark. (winces and gasps from the crowd) I can’t recall ever – Sandy, do you recall when was the last time you saw a bellyflop at an event like this?”

Who left the blanketly blank latte cup on the diving board?

Hiya Suzanne!!!! I don’t drink latte. But I did lose a Pepsi somewhere NEAR the diving board. Hmmmm……

CTuttle @ 119

SnarKassandra @ 111

YES!!!! They all left, and some of them were even nice to me by the end. But people can be stupid sometimes.

I am glad we’re back to just us. But my brother and I get to go on vacation for a few days tomorrow and wednesday and thursday. I am bringing my laptop but mostly we’ll be at the beach and stuff.

I agree, people can be stupid, particularly relatives!!! Galveston/South Padre, or Lake shores?

Port Aransas

Suzaaaannnnne!
LOLOLOL! OOps! 707070707!

Suzanne @ 117

boing (voice of Roone Arledge from ABC’s Wide World of Sports) “Oh no, looks like she tripped over something on her takeoff, folks. (Spah-lash) Oowwwww, that’ll leave a mark. (winces and gasps from the crowd) I can’t recall ever – Sandy, do you recall when was the last time you saw a bellyflop at an event like this?”
Whoops, sorry Ma’am!!! My bad!!! ;-)

Who left the blanketly blank latte cup on the diving board?

Whoops, that’s were I left it!!! ;-)

allan_in_upstate @ 116

Alert: Condi, if you’re reading this,
Ferragamo is having a sale.

Meanwhile, the birthpangs of the new Middle East are a bitch.

Another stillborn on midwife Condoleezza’s watch.

Keep her away from young democracies.

-GSD

P.S. Lebanon is still sucking air and the Palestinian territories are slipping back into a state of civil war. Not to mention the rumors of an Israeli/Syrian go-around sometime this summer….Add in Turkey and Iran working together and the region is aflame…..Yeah, the word is that Musharraff in Pakistan might be counting his last days in seized office too.

Heckuva job.

dwwenz @ 5

Dobbs is the one Flanders called out for using “illegal aliens” instead of “illegal immigrants”. Sadly, Time Magazine used the term “illegal aliens” in its cover story this week. Racists abound.

Brian Mahler(sp?) of NPR referred to illegal “aliens” in his report this weekend. I’m beginning to respect NPR less and less. Every time I hear of one of these cable news pundits (I don’t have cable, it’s not worth it) with their thinly veiled racism I always think of the Queen of Mean, Leona Helmsley, and her comment about taxes were just for the little people. For the pundits it’s the little brown people. If you don’t believe racism is alive and thriving in the corporate world, you ain’t payin’ attention.

For Charles Riley @ 67

Wouldn’t it be more productive to not enter into trade agreements which force farmers off their land and workers out of their jobs? What we don’t need is more bureaucracy to deal with a problem we created to ensure those engaged in agribusiness and manufacturing got rich(er).

And speaking of manufacturing, if companies no longer manufacture anything but instead import finished products manufactured in their name, doesn’t that make them importers and subject to tariffs (oh, the dirty word!)?

Ethanol is a scam.

Why don’t people like the word ALIEN? cause it reminds them of space movies?

wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 41

hi Margot!!!
when ya comin back to new mexico?

Hi Bud,
I don’t know. Three years, maybe. I’m missing it more than ever. I miss the Jemez Wilderness.

LindaR, I get a sense here people haven’t watched Dobbs either.

I can’t watch, because of the one note theme he embraces, but do see that he does make valid points that many here would agree with.

1. Minimum wage must be increased.

2. Corpratists rule America and need to be stopped.

3. Immigration reform isn’t to help the undocumented workers, it’s to give big business a free pass.

Suzanne @ 117

boing (voice of Roone Arledge from ABC’s Wide World of Sports) “Oh no, looks like she tripped over something on her takeoff, folks. (Spah-lash) Oowwwww, that’ll leave a mark. (winces and gasps from the crowd) I can’t recall ever – Sandy, do you recall when was the last time you saw a bellyflop at an event like this?”

Who left the blanketly blank latte cup on the diving board?

Sorry, Suz.

New thread!! I have the first one!

Suzanne @ 117

Who left the blanketly blank latte cup on the diving board?

If it ain’t Ovaltine, it ain’t mine…

GSD @ 126

allan_in_upstate @ 116

Alert: Condi, if you’re reading this,
Ferragamo is having a sale.

Meanwhile, the birthpangs of the new Middle East are a bitch.

Another stillborn on midwife Condoleezza’s watch.

Keep her away from young democracies.

-GSD

P.S. Lebanon is still sucking air and the Palestinian territories are slipping back into a state of civil war. Not to mention the rumors of an Israeli/Syrian go-around sometime this summer….Add in Turkey and Iran working together and the region is aflame…..Yeah, the word is that Musharraff in Pakistan might be counting his last days in seized office too.

Heckuva job.

Sigh, Ain’t Life Grand?!! 8-)

Y’ALL!!!!!!!! I am all alone next door! Come say hi.

SnarKassandra @ 128

Why don’t people like the word ALIEN? cause it reminds them of space movies?

The word alien always makes me think of “other”
or not like “us”. They are like us- they are us.

AnnieW @ 130

LindaR, I get a sense here people haven’t watched Dobbs either.

I can’t watch, because of the one note theme he embraces, but do see that he does make valid points that many here would agree with.

1. Minimum wage must be increased.

2. Corpratists rule America and need to be stopped.

3. Immigration reform isn’t to help the undocumented workers, it’s to give big business a free pass.

Yes, AnnieW, that’s it.

Mary McCurnin @ 105

GSD @ 92

Hey, are the left-wing netroots full of Ivory tower liberal elites sipping latte’s and going to the Metropolitan Opera or a bunch of 20 year olds smoking dope in their parents basement and blogging in their patchouli stanking pajammies?

Inquiring minds.

-GSD

No. They are little old ladies sittin at home gettin more pissed by the minute waitin for the rest of America to frickin wake up.

Are they knitting names??

Actually, all three of John Wayne’s wives were Hispanic. The first was Panamanian, the second Mexican and his widow, Pilar, is Peruvian. FWIW.

Would anyone care to comment on the indirect link that the SPLC has to the Mexican government?

What about the exposes done on them by various reporters, such as the one that appeared in Harpers?

GSD @ 62

redx @ 51

per some other folks here I am voting Edwards as well. He is (in a poll) slipping in NH which sucks, …

Yeah, I just saw that Hillary’s lead had jumped-up heavily at Edward’s expense in NH.

It’s not as though we can believe every poll, but do you have any idea what it’s attributable to?

Come to Texas and then tell me we don’t have an illegal alien/immigrant problem. As long as business can continue to enslave/exploit the illegals we will continue to have the problem. Ok I’ve got the flame suit on so do your worst/best…..

CTuttle @ 56

redx @ 51

per some other folks here I am voting Edwards as well. He is (in a poll) slipping in NH which sucks, but I live here and will do what I can.

Right On!!! I used to live in Enfield, right on Lake Mascoma!!!

Main Entry: 1. alien
Pronunciation: ‘A-lE-&n, ‘Al-y&n
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin alienus, from alius
1 a : belonging or relating to another person, place, or thing : STRANGE b : relating, belonging, or owing allegiance to another country or government : FOREIGN c : EXOTIC 1
2 : differing in nature or character typically to the point of incompatibility

The above definitions have been taken from Websters.

Sometimes people forget that words have many meanings. If Def. b is used the term alien has no racial overtones. Being 60, I grew up in a time when the word “alien” was frequently used simply to describe someone from another country not from outer space with all the negative associations with monster movies. I sometimes think that advocates for open borders or amnesty like to make a big thing out of the word “alien” to give such use racial overtones.

Perhaps, there are millions of illegal immigrants, the phrase that I choose to use simply from my penchant for “political correctness” (sarcasm here), who do not have an allegiance to their home country ; but I doubt it. I’m probably 10th generation Irish, yet, I smile and feel very comfortable being called Irish.

I do not use the term “undocumented worker” because:

1. The term implies that the illegal immigrant somehow has the right to work in this country; but just does not have the documents. The law says that such people do not have the legal right to work in this country.

2. Many illegal immigrants do have documents, illegal, false documents sometimes connected with identity theft, currently a crime in this country provided that we do not give that crime amnesty also.

When I grew up in New York, lots of people were referred to as “illegal aliens”. Many of them from Ireland and other European countries.

I’m a liberal Democrat who listens to Lou Dobbs all the time. I don’t always agree with him, but I have never heard him say anything I would consider racist.

Does anyone have some examples?