This has been a long time coming:
Even Democrats who support other candidates admit, grudgingly, that Edwards’s proposals would very likely have some measurable impact on American poverty. The expansion of the earned-income tax credit alone, Democratic analysts say, would translate into a $750 annual windfall, on average, for about four million poor Americans. Social scientists say pilot projects along the lines of Edwards’s work bonds have lent credence to the idea that the working poor can successfully be encouraged to save some of their wages, as long as the process of setting up the account isn’t onerous. The public-housing vouchers Edwards talks about have been the subject of some controversy, and opponents cite mixed results, but most experts — not to mention anybody who has ever spent time in the projects of the Bronx or Boston — believe that finally dismantling the 1960s experiment in warehousing the poor can only be a good thing for the people who live there.The question isn’t whether these policies will make a difference, but whether they will make all the difference — that is, whether Edwards’s plan would really eradicate poverty in America, or at least significantly diminish it. Most leading economists in the antipoverty field, particularly those who aren’t partisans in the old and stultified political debate between Great Society liberals and Reagan-era conservatives, now talk about poverty solutions as having two components. The first and most obvious is economic. Being poor means, quite literally, that you don’t have money; it stands to reason, then, that offering jobs and tax credits that encourage people to work will, on some level, alleviate poverty. The second component, however, has to do with what a lot of academics now refer to as “human capital.” This comprises the other, less visible resources, aside from money, that many poor people lack: education, marketable skills, contacts, self-discipline. The kinds of advantages that middle-class families take for granted — knowing, say, how to ace a job interview or how to prepare your children for success in school — often elude those who have grown up in poverty, thus perpetuating a cycle of economic failure.
Social scientists have been thinking hard about how to create policies that address this less quantifiable aspect of poverty. In New York City, acting on the work of his special commission on poverty, Mayor Michael Bloomberg is raising money (an undisclosed amount of which is his own) for an innovative pilot project, inspired by similar programs in countries like Mexico and South Africa, that will award cash payments to parents who participate in their child’s health care and schooling. Some experts, meanwhile, argue the best (and maybe the only) way to bridge the divide in human capital is to expand and improve early-childhood educational programs. One leading voice in this camp is the University of Chicago’s James Heckman, a Nobel Prize-winning economist, who contends, after years of studying the subject, that all the low-wage jobs and adult training programs on the planet won’t succeed in eliminating poverty unless government intervenes in the earliest stages of childhood, when tax dollars have been shown to yield the most return. “If people have limited options, low skills and an inability to function in the larger economy,” Heckman told me, “you can give them money, but if you don’t give them the skills, if you don’t somehow improve their access to those institutions that make a society productive, then all you’re going to do is more of what we did in the 1960s with the War on Poverty — namely, it will eradicate poverty in the sense that it will give people money, but it won’t lead to sustained growth of income, and the kids of these people will probably also enter poverty.”
Holes in the Safety Net To liberals, historically, taking on things like parenting skills and self-discipline veers dangerously close to blaming people for their own poverty — which is what they charge conservatives with doing. Instead, Democrats in the era since Bill Clinton have settled on a delicate formula for talking about poverty: they make concrete proposals in the economic realm (job training, tax credits, a higher minimum wage) while sternly deploying code phrases (“personal responsibility,” “playing by the rules”) that suggest that those in need also have to make better choices for themselves and their children. Not surprisingly, perhaps, Edwards follows this same basic regimen. While he talks about making people “take responsibility” and emphasizes the value of work, his antipoverty agenda contains little that is new or innovative to encourage better parenting or to impart more useful life skills. When I asked him about this, Edwards assured me that he understands the scope of the issue. He told me that he had visited more than 100 antipoverty and neighborhood centers around the country since the last election and that what he saw in some of those places stunned him. “When you’re sitting with a woman who’s working two or three jobs and having a terrible time making ends meet, and she tells you that her 14-year-old girl is having her third child, it makes you weep inside,” he said, with obvious emotion. “I mean, where’s the hope? They are absolutely doomed to poverty.”…
There are so many intertwined issues tangled up in the vast mess that is poverty. And so often politicians talk about a single strand as if pulling on that one string will unravel the whole mess. It is well past time that we started talking about the issues as a whole — multiple puzzle pieces that must, somehow, be put together to form something far more decent and coherent. That includes access to health care and mental health services, including preventative care which is desperately needed, and a whole host of other issues from childcare to job training and education to family intervention services to parenting classes to…well, you see what I mean that once you start thinking about all of the issues involved in this, the magnitude of the problem — and its elusive solutions starts to hit home.
The reality is that there is a growing underclass of folks in America with no safety net. For every person out there who is griping about American moral obligations, to ignore this issue or pass it over as a “if they were better people, they’d lift themselves up and do some real work” is appallingly uninformed about what it is like to be a small child in an impoverished, malnourished, abusive household, filled with adults who are not coping well with mental issues, drug and alcohol addictions, and worse. Having seen the results of this cycle of poverty and desperation in generation after generation of some families who weave in and out of our local criminal justice system, I can tell you that this is not a problem with an easy fix. But tackle it we must for the good of everyone in our communities.
Everyone has to pitch in on this — and I do mean everyone. More of this sort of discussion please — because the children born into this cycle of poverty need all of us. And good on Edwards and every other politician who has been working on this issue, publicly and privately. Hillary Clinton was correct all those years ago when she said that “it takes a village,” because it does — and the sooner everyone realizes that we are all connected to one another in ways that we cannot always immediately quantify, the better we will all be.
This is an issue that impacts criminal justice, education, medical care costs over the long term, and so many, many other issues. We discuss this and act because we must. To do otherwise is, quite simply, immoral. I know that a lot of our readers work in fields where they are directly involved in issues that intersect with poverty concerns. I’d love to hear your thoughts this morning on things that are being done well — and things that need work.
And I’ve clearly got another book to add to my “to read” pile once the Edwards poverty essay compilation arrives. If you haven’t read it already, this compilation of essays put together by Alan Curtis of the Eisenhower Foundation is a great place to start.
(Photo of a homeless woman in California via Shavar.)
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uno!
The gap between rich and poor is growing. Poverty is a reality for more families, or soon will be.
(From last thread)
Andrew Sullivan has a post about Tagg Romney’s MySpace page. Seems he likes “Battlefield Earth,” just like his dad. Andrew is wondering if he thinks Scientology is a religion or not.
Unfortunately, you need to add someone as a friend to post a comment. I can’t bring myself to do it. I do love the girl that asks him “do people now your family is Mormon?” (sic)
tiredfed, you have mail w/links. let me know if further help needed.
And we need to focus on the most deadly attack currently on middle class america, namely draining house equity to pay credit card interest for discretionary (lifestyle) purchases.
Why doesn’t some politician say something like this: If we stop spending two billion dollars a week on the Iraq occupation, then we might begin to address poorness.
Poorness is a disease. And it kills.
I think that one of the major legs needed to fight poverty is education.
Education whether it is vocational, collegiate, or skill based is the best track IMO to help end the cycle of poverty.
Minimum wage jobs perpetuate poverty.
Politicians fail to understand that sooner or later poorness will raise it’s ugly head.
OKK at 5 — They say that a lot. The media just doesn’t give it much coverage.
Hey Kids, Thanks to the gutting of the treasury by Bush et al, the U.S. Government itself has entered the ranks of the debt crushed poor. I’m afraid that all this talk of what we could do “if only” has to remain academic unless our monetary master, the Chinese government approves.
Children learn from their parents. If the parents are alcoholic and abusive, the odds are the children will grow up to be alcoholic and abusive. If the parents do not know how to maintain a clean and tidy house, it is likely that the children will not learn how to maintain a clean and tidy house.
Having people learn various types of life skills does not in any way make them less of a human. It makes them a human who is in need of teaching and support and only a human in need of teaching and support.
Apologies for this completely OT comment:
RBG, if you ‘re here, no canna get in all morning – safari or firefox. Hep me, hep me! Don’t know if it’s a Wordpress issue.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
How could I leave out healthcare? I work with veterans. I see daily the struggle many have in just getting their care. Trouble with transportation, as in none, or lack of money for gasoline, housing issues (ie. homeless), substance abuse, and the list goes on endlessly.
The VA might not be perfect, but it does provide many services for our veterans. These services include travel pay which is income dependent, homeless programs, prescription coverage with an income dependent copay. The main positive to me is that they do have coverage and there are systems in place to which referrals can be made to help address unique problems.
Universal healthcare for all is a mandate to me. We cannot continue playing ostriches when so many either lack insurance or find themselves avoiding care due to cost.
Sorry for the book, but the issues of poverty really set off a rarely used desire to post a comment.
watertiger at 12 — Are you entering from the front page login tag? You have to do it from the front page — if you are trying to use an old saved link, it likely isn’t operational. Try going in from the login in the right-hand column and, if you are still having problems, e-mail me and I’ll reset your backstage info for you.
I agree with that we need to put more dollars into early childhood education, nutrition, and care. The positive returns from this “investment” is proven. It’s a hard hearted beast that works to cut that funding.
We need to look around the world at social groups that are successful, the Amish and Mennonite communities are examples of The Village at work. We could learn from them.
Thanks Christy!
This problem, like so many others, requires long-term patience, something is short supply today. We need to be willing to put in the time as a society before we focus on the victims of the economic and social juggernaut that is the US. Otherwise we’ll have a string of false-starts, implementations of programs that last less than the length of a Presidential administration, and pile up more misery. Sounds familiar. And it may take a new “New Deal” sized commitment if we delay.
I think Richard Dreyfuss’ stand on Civics would be a good place to start.
Christy,
Thank you for this post.Oklahoma kiddo @ 5
Yeah, kiddo, why indeed? It’s because They Don’t Care about people. When Loo Hoo and I talked to Issa’s Deputy about corporatization, his response was something like What’s wrong with smart people making a lot of money with their companies. Loo said there’s nothing wrong with that as long as they pay their share of taxes. He said They Do! Liar! Almost everything we discussed led me to believe that I wasn’t sitting across from a human being with a heart and mind, but a big fat wallet with a mouth.
Now, on the positive side, I work with a group of people who help to support a mission in Kentucky. They provide food assistance, medical and dental care and education for the poor in Kentucky. They also have a team of women who go out to young women during and after pregnancies, to give them parenting and health instruction. They also give them plain old moral support. I learned that for some of these young mothers, these visits are their only contact with the outside world.
That’s my morning harumph.
This is so damn complicated, but in the end is quite simple. Redistribution of wealth. Many years ago, I did a masters thesis on income inequality in the US labor force, and I am saddened to say that it has only gotten worse in all that time.
Yet, there is a redistribution of power that is taking place right in front of us, and no one seems to be paying attention. Most people still cannot comprehend a society without a chain of command, yet a network form of social order is emerging and becoming more powerful every day. More later. This cannot be described in a simple comment. It would take several books.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 14
Christy, using the sidebar “meta” link. I just get a blank page – no login fields.
I’ve been gone for a month, on an island without internets. Did I miss anything? Has Bush been impeached? Since gas isn’t eleven dollars a gallon I’m going to assume we haven’t attacked Iran.
I once worked with a guy who, in all seriousness, thought that homelessness and poverty would be solved if all the homeless people simply got jobs at McDonalds. The root cause of poverty was a lack of sufficient gumption to fill out a McDonald’s application. Also, he thought we should have more defense spending because that made jobs.
Poverty in this country is inexcusable unless you happen to believe that corporations have greater rights than human beings.
If the MSM is ignoring our elected reps. on the issues, and I believe the main stream media is doing just that, then perhaps a positive approach for our elected officials, who must be aware of the situation, is to force the media to correct itself.
Right you are Christy. Good topic.
I hold Ronald Reagan directly responsible for this. It was he who made ridiculous statements like :Government is the problem and not the solution.” Others followed desperately trying to undo the Roosevelt New Deal. And everybody’s buddy Clinton who set up ” The end of welfare as we know it.” Shame on them all.
triciawrites @ 7
Exactly. This highlights why NCLB is so important to the Right. How better to perpetuate the supply of low wage workers than destroy the very means they have to rise: free public education.
Test the schools and set standards that assure every school will eventually fail. Allow the elite to take their children to any school they want while the others will not be able to afford that option.
I’m not against NCLB simply because I am a teacher. It’s one of the key cogs in the “VRWC” that needs to be dismantled.
Recall: Our prez said Ronald Reagan was his hero.
Great post, Christy, and great subject.
One of the cycle-breakers is education, of course, but it is harder than just “fixing the schools” – I have friends who are teachers, and the ones in good neighborhoods have good schools. The ones in poorer neighborhoods would often bring food to their classroom so that their kids didn’t go hungry.
And our health care system is criminally broken, because it has mutated into an insurance company profits driven entity and far away from something that allocates health care according to need.
I thought Jesus was his hero.
In one generation (say from late 60’s early 70’s), the price of a jar of spaghetti sauce has gone from 43 cents to $3. You could buy a new car for $6,000. A candy bar was 10 cents. Gasoline has gone from 33 cents a gallon to $3 per gallon.
Minimum wage has barely changed.
Inflation. The basic economic system creates poverty.
Here is the contrary view, just to make you throw up a little in your mouth:
Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage’s whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
Ayn Rand
You can see why she died alone and unloved
The poverty issue and wealth/others disparity can be seen in all its naked horror on the HHS Pandemic Flu Leadership Blog. It has a limited five week run – and it started on May 22. The HHS bloggers are displaying Katrina behavior – mixed messages, ambiguous messages, unresponsive to comments, and absolute indifference to the public’s calls for clear and accurate information sharing.
The issue of interest is around the calls to stockpile. Those who lack the means cannot stockpile food on a food stamp budget – heck – to do so would be to break the rules of receiving food stamps. And speaking to stockpiling flu medicine, masks and personal protective equipment to be able to shelter in place – meaning to stay in the home – for eight weeks to SIX MONTHS – is unfathomable.
Hie thee over there, read the posts by the HHS leaders (there are public panelists blogging, too – but they don’t speak for HHS). Read the posts by Leavitt and the Admiral – and then come back here and explain just how poverty is really being addressed – to this N=1, it looks like planned genocide a la New Orleans.
the economist/philosopher Amartya Sen was awarded the nobel in economics which demonstrated that famine is seldom if ever a problem of scarcity, per se. Famine, rather, is almost always caused by decisions regarding allocation and distribution.
that is, if one reads between the lines, famine is most frequently the result of political decisions far removed from the wcene of starvation.
i suspect the same is true of poverty: it is not a matter of scarcity, but one of decisions about the allocation and distribution of material resources and opportunities…that is, a political and not a personal problem…
/
Are our public colleges and universities teaching their journalism students about objectivity and the importance of ethics, morality and relevancy? Perhaps I need to turn my attention to the media and it’s apparent gross failings.
Education is one piece of this. But the definition of education needs to change radically. Instead of “training workers,” we need to educate people to be citizens. Then, and only then will the focus change from economics to citizenship and taking control of the government (and economy) to make it do our bidding.
When I lived in NYC in 1973, I think it cost 25 cents to ride the subway, and it was pretty cheap to go to the movies.
What are the prices in NYC now for:
Subway
Bridge tolls
movies
I’m curious?
Here’s another book on this subject for your reading list, Christy- Orwell’s “Down and Out in Paris & London.” A semi-fictionalized account of his living on basically nothing in those two cities. As timely now as then (1933) for insight into poverty from those who are impoverished. A quote from Chaucer begins “Down & Out:”
“O scathful harm, condition of poverte!”
I posted the following LA Times link last Fri., when I attended Mamie Hatleberg’s memorial service- Mamie was one of our local heroes who couldn’t stand to watch poor people go hungry, so she did something about it:
Mamie Hatleberg Obituary
I think the subway is 2 bucks. I lived in NYC the same time you did.
Tell me about it, I know this all too well. I am one of those with no safety net.
sofistic @ 18
Isn’t this some of the thinking behind the estate tax? It’s sickening that a handful of uber-wealthy families and their hired legislators managed to bamboozle the rank & file Republicans that they were at risk of the government seizing their family farm or business to pay for the indolent masses.
How much money is enough! How much money does a person need to live a really good life? Just look at Prince Bandar getting billions from the UK for arms deals. How many billions does that man need to get through a day?
The hypocrisy is at times almost, I said ‘almost’, overwhelming and suffocating. Our politicians, especially the GOP pays all this lip-service to capitalism and that’s it’s all about work and the so called “merit-system”. Bunk.
LS @ 28
Americans do not realize how we are becoming a third world country. In the 1960s, my dad made $7,500 a year. I had three brothers. My mother did not work. We had a house that was paid off and a decent used car. We had plenty of food and a vacation every summer. Today I know academic couples where both work, making $120,000 a year, and they are living paycheck to paycheck.
The state of Florida made a hurricane preparedness video, which local PBS affiliates aired. It seemed to assume that Florida is entirely populated by prosperous middle-aged white men with two-car garages that each contain an SUV, a two-week supply of food and a $3000 Honda generator, and enough cash to spend a week in a Holiday Inn in Georgia if need be. The subtext was “if you are poor, you will just have to die.”
The really sad thing about local gas stations is that they have to sell snacks and stuff to pay their bills. They make more on a gallon of water (which is their biggest seller, by the way). I remember when you drove in a gas station and got your oil checked and your windows cleaned. I’m starting to sound like my father.
spinoza @ 40
Exactly. The system needs to change, but how?
Do take the time to read the whole NYTimes Magazine article on Edwards that I linked first above — particularly for the lining out of the poverty debate issues that Bai does. he falls into the over-simplification trap in some ways, but as a quick-sketch overview, it is an introduction to the issues worth reading. I can’t wait to see Ian or Sterling or Bonddad dig into this, though — that is some discussion worth reading on the issues.
When I canvassed for Ned, I went to a public housing complex for the first time in my life. I knew they existed. I drove by them, read about them, sold ice cream off a truck on the outskirts of one, however I had never looked into the eyes of the people who lived there. That was a very telling experience.
Up to that day I had brought food to food banks, donated money, donated clothes, and participated in fund drives, etc. There was a layer of insulation in all of that.
This may be a quote or a paraphrase of what someone else may have said, however I think the legacy of any society is how they treat the less fortunate.
Gotta run–see you guys l8tr
wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 31
Hi WGG!
Absolutely correct. You are still my choice for sec. of state.
It’s about equal pay. A living wage with benefits. It’s about jobs.
it’s not a sub-text at all; since Katrina it’s been an explicit part of the message…
.
This may be a quote or a paraphrase of what someone else may have said, however I think the legacy of any society is how they treat the less fortunate.
Yep.
Just who will make a great president in 2009?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
But gee, Christy, he lives in a 20,000 square foot house, what does he know? /s
(Thanks for this, I wouldn’t have seen the article otherwise.)
The 2008 voter surpression drive has begun:
Mississippi Requires Voter ID and Party ID to Vote in Primaries in 2008!
And it’s being forced by a Federal Judge!
Richest 20% of the population: Distribution by country. US is right between Mozambique and India. Richest 20% of population, by country
Every single resident in my building was homeless once, as was I in 2003. We don’t need pieties, we need access to affordable housing, affordable health care and a living wage.
The local neighborhood protested the building I am in right now because of the stereotypes of the homeless. We broke those stereotypes and proved everyone of them wrong. Now the neighborhood association is one of our biggest supporters.
All we needed was the chance, the opportunity, that’s all.
.cleter @ 41
That is exactly the tone that HHS is taking toward pandemic flu preparation. The worldwide death rate is over 50%, and the victims are primarily under forty years of age – and female. If there’s a mutation that gets to the US, the waves of death will be in the MILLIONS!
With already overcrowded emergency departments and hospitals, there is no room to accept tidal waves of patients, no one to care for them, no ventilators to put them on, and no one to assure that people have food to eat, water to drink, sanitation, utilities and any other basic necessities. And that’s just with the first wave which will last for about six weeks.
The HHS is doing all of the same Katrina-type stuff: chatting in endless ambiguities, not doing anything concrete to prepare, not working with the National Guard, and state public health agencies, not contracting with hospitals for more beds, staff and respiratory resources, not stockpiling flu medications, personal protective equipment or making distribution plans, and not assuring that supplies of food, potable water and electricity will be available.
This isn’t a Chicken Little scenario – this is knowing that the pandemic is coming – at any time, and willfully ignoring the public welfare by not preparing.
Oklahoma Kiddo or Anyone
Do you have a source for that 2 billion dollars a week? I want to use this fact in a piece I’m writing and would feel better if I could quote the source.
dmoore @ 57
Here’s something from last year.
I’m thrilled that Edwards is discussing this and that for the first time in a generation we might get past the blame the victim, Emersonian self-reliance approach to dealing with poverty that was noxious at it’s core. Even Hilly’s hubby in his 8 years in office did little to dispel the Rethug TP that poor people are essentially responsible for their own situation and the government should do nothing about it (although his strong economy did help a lot, thank goodness W dismantled that).
What is this planet’s greatest resource – is it oil or gold or could it possible, who’da’thunk’it, be its people? Wow, our greatest resource, renewable resource!, and we’ve had a generation of politicians in this country do little to try to address what is needed to get the most value out of it.
Pathetic.
dmoore @ 57
this is dated, it’s from September last year. It’s from a congressional analysis
Cleter@27: Jesus can’t be W’s hero. Jesus actually cared about the poor. He fed them. W’s idea of Jesus is some kind of perverted Calvinism (not a doctrine I care much for to begin with), as with all the Republicans since Reagan: poverty is a sign of a person’s failings; wealth signifies virtue. Background, race, ethnicity, bad luck—immaterial. No issues complicate the equation. I don’t think W has ever even mentioned the poor.
Edwards is extremely wealthy now, but he came up from a very humble beginning. Unlike W, he actually earned his wealth, and unlike W he is trying to help people who didn’t start out with advantages and privileges. I’m very glad to see the NYTimes paying any kind of attention.
Newtonusr and Elliot
Thank you so much! Now I’ve got facts! All the better to make my point!
Children living in poverty: US is number 2, between Mexico and Italy. Children living in poverty, by country
historically, taking on things like parenting skills and self-discipline veers dangerously close to blaming people for their own poverty
this needs a re-frame. cyclical poverty has certainly created conditions that need solutions beyond just money. but, a lack of day to day resources makes people have to make tough choices that favor immediate needs over longer range goals which are often what people associate with “good-parenting”.
put an extra $100 a week in parent’s pockets and watch how their parenting improves…
LS @ 34
LS – ccmask @ 36 is correct. The subway and local buses have gone up to $2 a ride in NYC (threatening to rise to $3 per by 2010), and the tunnels and bridges are about $6 (some of the bridges out of NY are still free, but I know of only one INTO NY for which the same can be said). Movies, probably like much of the country, run about $9 a ticket. They’re definitely a luxury item nowadays.
Jesus can’t be W’s hero. Jesus actually cared about the poor. He fed them. W’s idea of Jesus is some kind of perverted Calvinism
The right wing’s view of Jesus is Ayn Rand nailed to a cross having sex with Milton Friedman.
spinoza @ 66
Brain Bleach, Stat!
There’s a guy at my church, I’ll call him Phil, ’cause that’s his name. Whole family very conservative right. Everyone served in the miltary. Now his youngest daughter is the Navy. He’s changed his tune about the war. He say’s I just don’t want her going over there.
Context means so much. Recently I heard that he said that we could help the poor so much more if we weren’t wasting $s in Iraq. It did my heart good to hear of his conversion to the truth.
I find the self-discipline crack to be especially offensive. It’s pure BS. We don’t lack self-discipline or any of the others on your list. We lack opportunity. We lack access to a job that pays, or those who belong to minorities, they lack a discrimination free environment.
Transportation is another issue. It may be ok in New York, but even here in Minneapolis it is a nightmare to try to get to a job just through the bus system.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 22
i caught Marcy Wheeler’s C-Span book review and she said something that may just work here = give reporters report cards. She gave Carol Leonig an ‘A’ on her Libby Trial reporting, and another reporter a ‘B.’ He was quite indignant over his grade and demanded to know why he didn’t get an ‘A.’ She told him. I think it was he who later wrote a front page above the fold decent article.
We might have to institute a Friday post wrapping up the reporting of the week and explain their grades by pointing out what they missed and what the got wrong.
David Broder wrote some good stuff but then ruined it by sliming the Wilsons. Broder gets an F. (Succoming to republican blackmail)
Alfred Kelgarries @ 53
Any thoughts on whether this particular Justice Department wants to pick a fight with the Supreme Court?
spinoza @ 66
The Xtianist view is “All we have to do is say ‘I believe’ and all my sins are fergiven.” Actual Christian acts are meaningless and wasteful in that perspective. It is purely in the act of believing.
I’m thinking there are going to be a lot of VERY surprised souls at some point.
newtonusr @ 71
Well, in the irony department, the DEMOCRATS brought the suit…
…I suspect an appeal will be made and the judgement stayed due to constitutional issues…but in the current political climate, who knows?
Kathryn in MA @ 70
OK. That’s funny and illustrative!
I worked with 3 women who had children starting when they were 14. 2 of these women live with their mothers still, and 1 made it out of poverty and is now an RN. I’m so happy for her.
By the way—don’t ask these women to register to vote. They are firmly anti-political, because politics is boring, doesn’t matter to them, and they’re over-burdened as it is. I would love to know how to reach women like this so they can have a say in their future representatives and presidents.
And in your self interest, you’ll be joining us soon. What I am worried about is “How do we get there?” How do we get to a society that cares about the less fortunate? ‘Cause I don’t see it just happening, not even if Dems are elected, it isn’t a guarantee at all.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 73
Yeah, but the “Dems” rationale is to protect the party and process from being seeded by switchers – cutting off ones nose…
dakine01 @ 72
Matthew 7L20 et al:
7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ 24 will enter into the kingdom of heaven – only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 7:22 On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do 25 many powerful deeds?’ 7:23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’
triciawrites @ 7
Yes, but we should start by accentuating what works in order to make in-roads with conservatives who resist the idea that government can be a solution.
The G.I. Bill was successful in helping lower class Americans become better educated.
HeadStart programs increase the success rate of at-risk children when they do enter school; increases in pre-K education correlate with a corresponding drop in jail/prison usage 13-20 years out, as well.
Had an argument not too long ago with one of my retired union buddies, who has been against Michigan Governor Granholm’s 21st Century Jobs initiative, which calls for state-subsidized education for first two years of college. He maintains that not all students are college material. I explained that in this day and age, students need more time in school to make up for the time lost due to NCLB testing (could be a year’s time over the course of K-12) and exponentially increasing demands of technology (how much does technology change over the course of K-12? ). We must help the folks who are stuck on the other side of the technological divide bridge it if they are going to stand a chance at a better paying job, and if our country is ever to regain its role as a net exporter of technology rather than an importer.
We also need to adopt as part of national ethic that education is lifelong, not limited to K-12. What did you learn this year, last year, and what will you learn next year and five or more years out? Shouldn’t this be a part of our national dialogue?
Spinoza @ 66: okay, that’s disgusting (but very funny). What an image. Thank you so very much.
It’s jobs that count. In 1953 unemployment
was 2% when the education level was lower
than today’s . AOBTW the highest incremental tax rate was 90% which permitted those employees to spend their pay check without
inflation . Whether it’s tax olicy ,globalization ,immigration or none of the above the solution to reducing poverty involves economics more than social policy.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
It ought to be possible for FDL to have a “web conference” on this (or any other issue). You could schedule it like Book Salon, but for a whole afternoon — invite three experts to create posts, share in advance and the run them sequentially for 45-minutes to an hour each — followed by an open discussion with all three.
noen @ 69
Yes – I can relate – whistleblower – wrongful termination – defamed and now permanently unemployed and soon to be evicted and homeless. Don’t think that there is any support for those who are dis-enfranchised. And if you are a woman without family, you are deemed worthless. Utterly, totally worthless. So much for pulling oneself up by bootstraps – mine are hanging me.
r m flanagan @ 81
It’s not just jobs. Technology and outsourcing are inexorably moving up the class chain, and at its limit will do away with the idea of work altogether (well, nearly). What then? How will wealth be distributed if there are no workers? Think this is science fiction? Not.
Correct you are Alfred. He also said some seeds fall on fertile land and some fall on fallow soil, or something like. Some get it, some don’t.
Tell me about it. I’m working two jobs while trying to make sure my kid has food, diapers and the such. I’m trying to put myself back into college and finish it up so that I can have some hope of making a decent income. I don’t know how people who make minimum wage survive when they’re supporting two other people. It’s pretty impossible. That’s why I’m waiting on my SSI / SSDI to come through so that I can depend on that income while going to college. I also intend to work part time to make ends meet. But that’s even more time away from my kid. I might switch to an easier major such as business because biochemistry is a really, really heavy workload. My heart goes out to those who don’t even have the same opportunities that I do, and it’s a really big problem that needs to be addressed. I can’t imagine what it’s like to live in NYC with little to no money at all whatsoever. At least in New Mexico, they do have some good supportive social services. I’m thankful for that.
Rayne @ 79
Education is important but certainly no panacea. We need access to affordable housing, healthcare and a living wage. Those have to come first because you certainly can’t learn if you don’t have a stable home environment, or a stable job or if you are sick.
And “No Child Left Behind” needs to be dismantled and thrown in the sewer where it belongs.
Keep up the good work, Deafbypill. What you are doing is noble and you will be repayed later for all of your hard work now.
Living in a capitalist society is a one-size-fits-all approach to how people function best in a society. Either you fit into a slot in the accepted system or you are headed for abject poverty. There are societies out there who figured it out. They make allowances for all the diverse levels of talent in their population and they begin with making certain everyone has the basics: food, shelter, healthcare, clothes, celebration, participation in the entire society.
We start with the premise that a nuclear family is an island unto itself. They need to make an effort to build some semblance of community of friends and/or family. It doesn’t carry over to the next generation. My network is now separate from the one my daughters are building and never the twain shall meet except perhaps at marriages or funerals. We separate again.
In some societies these life events are a continuum and integrated the entire community. I think the very values we have placed on the stand-alone-family-unit is self-destructive.
We have to look at the foundation of our society and build on that. Unfortunately, that has changed. Now it is about “the hard-core individualist” and there is no place in our society for much else. You make it “our way or the highway” – It’s poverty for you. Many people naturally live better in communal societies. All the retraining in the world won’t change this, and why should it!
Indonesia is a cesspool of poverty since industrialization was visited upon them. It just gets worse and worse. Soekarno knew this and tried to incorporate the ancient communal system his people had always lived by. Instead the two systems were incompatible (I certainly don’t know why) and communal land was privatized and the people living on it were driven out to the slums of Jakarta. The only opportunities offered to them, if at all, were working in Chinese factories under terrible conditions for little wages. In many cases the Javanese women were sold to the factories as bond servants for a period of six or seven years. For this she received food and a mat to sleep on on a hard floor. She worked from sun up until late at night.
The two systems can exist side-by-side and the communal societies have no problem accepting the people who want to live under the “self-ownership” system. However, it doesn’t work the other way around. Capitalists can’t tolerate communal societies. I certainly understand why. The only way to amass great wealth is through using other people’s labor so they need a large labor pool, very cheap.
I see no hope for ending poverty in the US unless we accept that many people function more efficiently under the communal system. I witnessed wealthy villages in Indonesia when people were allowed to keep their communities in tact. Why these were a threat to capitalists is totally beyond me. These people were labeled “Communists” and rounded up and ultimately, the communities destroyed.
Poverty is a deliberate part of the capitalist system (please don’t give me that nonsense about it not being a “system” – oh hum). Show me a purely capitalist society where there is no poverty.
Millineryman @ 45
Hey, Millinary Man! Yes, i, too, went door-to-door for Ned, and i would ask, “what would you like to say to Ned?” Most would say, “Bring our troops home,” but some would burst into tears and tell me wrenching stories of their situation! The pain that people are dealing with is horrendous and the thought that someone might care is powerful.
dmoore @ 85
I won’t take credit for another’s work. My dad is a graduate theologian. i’m a functional atheist. my boss is a frakkin genius who is a recovering jehovah’s witness (the guys parents were leaders of that cult in the 1940’s) and he and my dad have had some VERY interesting conversations when the alzheimers medicine is working (for my dad)…
Alfred Kelgarries @ 78
DINGDINGDINGDING!!!!!
Scarecrow @ 82
Oh, I am SO for that. I am in the middle of developing a business plan for a new progressive think tank dedicated to the purpose of economic development on an open source/open community basis. One of the key problems I see is that so many of us no longer have the social capital obtained through social networks that our parents and grandparents had — like participation in civic organizations and social clubs. We need to find a way to supplement those loose networks with something new, and organized discussions over the internet on the topics that underpin poverty, including the nuts-and-bolts of how to fix it, might well be an answer.
Bubba framed the argument for shared responsibility well, as one of common humanity, at his recent commencement address at Harvard:
“When the human genome was sequenced, and the most interesting thing to me as a non-scientist – we finished it in my last year I was president, I really rode herd on this thing and kept throwing more money at it – the most interesting thing to me was the discovery that human beings with their three billion genomes are 99.9 percent identical genetically…
…The great temptation for all of you is to believe that the one-tenth of one percent of you which is different and which brought you here and which can bring you great riches or whatever else you want, is really the sum of who you are and that you deserve your good fate, and others deserve their bad one. That is the trap into which you must not fall.
Warren Buffett’s just about to give away 99 percent of his money because he said most of it he made because of where he was born and when he was born. It was a lucky accident. And his work was rewarded in this time and place more richly than the work of teachers and police officers and nurses and doctors and people who cared for those who deserve to be cared for. So he’s just going to give it away. And still with less than one percent left, have more than he could ever spend. Because he realizes that it wasn’t all due to the one-tenth of one percent, and that his common humanity requires him to give money to those for whom it will mean much more.”
http://www.news.harvard.edu/ga…..inton.html
dmoore @ 88
I hope so. Provided I don’t break my foot again or get any more ear infections. ER is the only way for me to see a doctor if I get sick. They’re expensive.
Rayne at 93: Right. The membership in “animal clubs” (e.g., elks, moose, etc.) has declined to near extinction. And those social networks are no substitute for the virtual networks now emerging. I did a study on these memberships a number of years ago, and it was amazing how the drop-off curve from the late 1800’s to the late 1990’s looked so much like a reverse logistics curve.
To look at poverty, one must need to look at wealth as well, what these contradictory states are comprised of and what makes one one, and the other the other, not only in monetary terms, but economic terms, in social terms, in terms of education, in experience, in extent of horizons, to fully grasp the basic needs that are required to go from the least to the fortuitously endowed. There are many fawcets to gaining a fuller understanding, but the most important is having an undistored mirror ith which to see ourselves; such mirror is exceedingly rare.
Monetary and Economic wealth are not the same. What passes as wealth today is more the result of a psychotic sickness than an economic description, partcularly if reference is made to the top percentiles, probably now the top 10 percent of the country would so be included. These have aggregations of value that can never be spent by any rational human being, effectively locked away from any economic process other than buying and maintaining a political control over government, Law, and population, to protect their interests and further aggregate their hoards. They own or own controlling interest of every economic resource or economic means of production in not only this country but now with “globalization”, of the world. No new economic development is possible that will not be absorbed into the “aggregate” controlled by these top percentilers, any where in the world. Bill Gates and Co. will probably be the last great fortunes to join their numbers.
It is the result of the policy of limitational accounting and short term profit, that put an unatural economic squeeze to provide the demand for “return on investments” for these “capitalists”, there is no other reality other than theirs. They pay the piper, you hear the tune that is selected, there is no other choice. Maybe, or just maybe not…..
As economic resources have aggregated into the control of the top percentilers, a true Zed-sum economic condition results. Economic resources are not infinite, what one takes is less for another, the results of economic Darwinism is the poverty that bedecks our cities with slums, creates the ever growing underclass now threatening even the middle class with economic deprivation, and even usurps time itself away from those trying to enjoy the fruits of their labor which effects even the upper middle class professionals themselves.
That is if this con game is continued. The game is protected by the smoke and mirrors provided by a fabric of lies, and myths, and superstitions, all fed on ignorance, misdirection, beliefs, and indolence. Cut through the lies, the cunning, the deceit, and those running the show backstage behind the curtain are exposed for the scam presented on front of house stage, and the actors exposed midst their change of wardrobe.
Afraid, this might be a piddle on the throwrug near the front door. my bad
We are over saturated with physical capital information. Where are the corresponding links to human capital?
Bill Gates is rich because he had a great idea – wealth followed.
Until we address this gap, we will continue to face inequality, to the detriment of us all.
If we were closer to a system based on actual accomplishment, we wouldn’t have a Yale legacy ruining the country.
diogenes @ 98
Bill Gates didn’t have a great idea, he stole it. He did not write MSdos. Microsoft did not get to the top by having great or better ideas than the competition. They got there because they were utterly ruthless and used every monopolistic trick they could.
You don’t get ahead in this world by having a better idea. You get ahead by being a ruthless sociopathic CEO willing to do whatever it takes to beat down your competitors.
Wow! Thanks Christy, a post about me!! :) Too bad I got here so late. I wanted to post this before a new thread goes up. Now to go back and finish reading.
FYI: I became a squatter to avoid living under a bridge. I have no medical care whatsoever, you know the story. Except I have a roof over my head and the TOOBS!
PS: I code HTML for food.
I think alot of us miss the point in this whole discussion: The issue of Poverty is not confined to a particular nation, and the lines are not properly drawn by reference to the policies of any particular political party or advocacy group.
The issue, the world over, is the struggle of the rich against the poor. It is the global constant which makes any nationalist world-view entirely irrelevant. Look at the evidence of the impacts of global warming – the poor will suffer far more than the rich, regardless of location on the globe. Regard the recent upheavals in France – the election was a direct reflection of the fear of the older, wealthier generation against the young, ambitious “rabble” who see little opportunity to enter the mainstream of society.
Consider this: In the neo-liberal capitalist construct, “capital” is allowed to cross international borders instantly, constantly, fully sanctioned by the nations, while the movement of “labor” is constricted to the choking point. Immigrant populations in every country are demonized regardless of their actual impact on the local economy (c.f., again, France).
I am afraid Marx will be proven right in the long run – revolution is inevitable. For example, does anyone think that there will be reform of the perverse US healthcare system, short of total dissolution of American society as we know it? In the macro view, the same question may be asked of capitalism – can anyone see a solution to poverty as long as capital rules at the expense of a growing global population?
sofistic @ 33
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..ZfWAbMWM0F
The above-linked article talks about how “CEO” compensation now stands at a 179:1 ratio of an average worker’s pay. I think one of the reasons we have a hard time getting a hold on the poverty discussion is that we are in conflict about a deep-seated American Dream notion that anyone who is willing to work hard enough and play by the rules can succeed and do so in a fabulous way. This is simply not true now, if it ever was.
Having spent the last decade and more working with the children of the poor I know without a doubt that it takes far more than bootstrap-pulling and chutzpah to make it at all, let alone make it big. Remember the 12-year old who died in DC recently from abscessed teeth? I have children who come to school every day with major health problems, hunger, lack of sleep, emotional difficulties, ad infinitum and yet I am told that if I don’t get them to perform at the same level as kids whose parents hire private tutors, place their children in every conceivable advantageous position regarding health care, nutrition, activities, and literacy that I am a bad teacher and I could lose my job in another year or two.
But this isn’t about me. It’s about an astounding lack of awareness, compassion, empathy, and understanding in many political circles of the reality of daily, generational poverty. The very popular accountability movement that spawned No Child Left Behind is supported in the notion that poverty is a punishment from “God” for being a not-good person and that more effort, middle-class affectations and dress, and willingness to conform will “cure” the disease of poverty.
The problems of lack of public transportation, affordable housing and healthcare, poor nutrition, non-existent mental and dental health care, and access to family planning and parenting training are just a few of the deeply-rooted problems that I deal with on a daily basis. Until we, as a country, are willing to confront these horrific problems in a real and concerted way, little will change for my children and their families and the cycle will continue into the foreseeable future.
Rayne @ 79
The GI Bill, education and housing, was the single most powerful economic flywheel in the history of the United States.
It has been the Republican answer for as long as I can remember that indeed those who are too stupid or too lazy deserve to die. Setting that aside, what they have no answer for is whether the children of the too stupid or too lazy deserve the fate of their parents.
As any human being knows, the answer is “of course not.”
The right kind of education really can help (as opposed to the NCLB kind). As part of my math program I teach “Consumer Smarts” to my little-70% free lunch- fifth graders. (Don’t tell anyone!) Here’s an example:
The first week of school, many of these kids come in with a bag of hot Cheetos that costs $1.29 for snack. We do the math! It’s astounding, and the kids are blown away but what they would spend over the course of the school year. Then we study the nutritional value…
As issues come up, we discuss rip-offs, which people in poverty are victim of. We compare the $8.00 tennies from Walmart to the $18.00 pair from JC Pennies. We watch the life of the shoes, and the student conclude that it saves money to spend a little more. Don’t get me started about the money they spend when the carnival comes to town…
LaFourmiRouge @ 101
You got it right and yes, they are missing the point.
Nope, I don’t see it either.
Until there are global unions able to stand up to global capitol the answer is no. Any attempt to establish such a union would be met with a crushing military blow.
sofistic @ 96
I am a 30 year member of the Elks lodge in my hometown in Kentucky, where I have NOT lived at any time during that period of membership (joined just after basic training at my father’s request). One step that the loal lodge back home has done is to open regular membership to women even while keeping a “ladies auxliary.” In fact, the new ER back there is a woman. But that IS small town life and I am sure your studies are especially true for the lodges in larger cities.
One big difference between repubs and Democrats is that the repubs really believe that wealth that people have is earned as a result of the inherent superiority of the wealthy. Democrats generally recognize that some wealth is earned as a result of personal greatness, but most of it is just luck. It comes from being born in the right family, guessing right in the stock or real estate market, or getting lucky in choice of business.
If you think it is personal qualities that produce wealth, you can easily believe that your wealth is deserved. If you think it is largely luck, then you see that it is the arrangements of society that are largely responsible for your wealth, and that you have duties to give back, preferably in taxes.
All repubs believe the first premise, that wealth is the result of personal qualities. From there it is just a question of how far they want to push the idea. Some have some sense of noblesse oblige, some are willing to say that poverty is totally the result of the lack of personal qualities of the poor. Most are in between.
I am a democrat. I know that while I am competent and smart, my success is largely due to the good start my parents gave me, and to the luck of the draw on the choice of profession and spouse (I will say that I take some credit for having the good sense to marry well).
Morning Loo Hoo.
I ususally let my 13 year old son spend his money on whatever he wants. Yesterday he wanted to go next door where our neighbor was having a yard sale. Not really, he was selling a bunch Disney stuff out of his garage. I told James, No, you’re not spending your money on that crap. Probably all made in China. But, cars came and went all day. People with shitty cars purchasing all the junk. I tried not to pay attention. Another factor in my bad mood yesterday.
N=1 @ 83
What do you need? How can we help?
Margot @ 110
She needs access to affordable housing, affordable healthcare and a job that pays a living wage. She can handle the rest.
Margot @ 110
A job :)
N-1, what do you do? what is you field? I ask this since you’ve indicated you are a whistleblower.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 5
because that’s the point? remember the “peace dividend”? iraq is a sure way to keep that from happening.
Two factors I see:
* need to keep war going in middle east so we can suck dollars out of our economy and place them in the pockets of haliburton et. al.
* need for a permanent underclass here in the US to fight in those wars and to serve as a warning to the rest of us
I am a strong Edwards supporter, and I am so disappointed to see his relatively low standing in the polls, and the complete shunning of covering him by the MSM.
Here’s someone who speaks to an important issue, and today FTN has on Tony Snow & Joe Lie. C’mon!!
To further my rant, today Sunday Morning, usually a good and thoughtful CBS show, today had a feature on “super parties” — folks spending hundreds of thousands and millions for a “memorable experience.” Not just the CEOs who rip off their companies for this [Tyco] but folks celebrating 54th birthdays, weddings, bar/bat mitzvahs, Sweet Sixteens, etc,
CBS reported this without a trace of “what good use could this huge amount of money be going towards.” Rather it was quotes from party-goers and party planners to the effect “you can’t take it with you, so why not enjoy it.”
Here’s a novel idea for all those rich dudes looking for something “memorable:” take that $700,000 or $1.4 mill, spend it on a school, hospital, housing, veterans’ care etc., then invite your rich friends on your “appointed [party] day” to come by & see what your money has done. That should be unique.
N=1 @ 112
I resemble that myself…Since all the retirement plans are going to run out sometime late this year or early next
lee5 @ 114
It also serves to advance the neo-con goal of shrinking entitlements down to where they can be drowned in a bathtub. While the war has not bankrupted our economy, it certainly has made it difficult to ask for expansions in entitlement programs. That was the whole point of course.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 5
because that’s the point? remember the “peace dividend”? iraq is a sure way to keep that from happening.
Two factors I see:
* need to keep war going in middle east so we can suck dollars out of our economy and place them in the pockets of haliburton et. al.
* need for a permanent underclass here in the US to fight in those wars and to serve as a warning to the rest of usLS @ 34
subway: $2
bridge: $4.50
movie: ??
A job :)Alfred Kelgarries @ 113
Dcotrally educated (ABD) healthcare administrator – patient and nursing advocate, healthcare systems and processes design and nursing professional development are the areas I have the most recent experience and comfort with.
Great post Christie and an issue which needs to center stage in our political discussions. Poverty in this country is, as has been known since the 60s, is a national disgrace. The growing gap between the super rich and the rest of us is dramatically increasing poverty. As several commentators have observed poverty is a disease, but it does not infect individuals, it infects societies. Pervasive poverty harms all of us in a multitude of ways. Lack of proper health care for the poor both provides a large reservoir for disease and contributes to lower economic productivity among the working poor. It distorts our politics as well. The rise of the Christian right is in part a direct outgrowth of the worsening economic situation among poor whites (and others). It is a drain on our resources as it increases costs for emergency health care, increases crime, produces children who struggle in school and therefor require more resources, to name just a few consequences.
My own mother and her siblings overcame massive poverty (they were Ozark hillbillies) to join the professional classes, but they were the only ones they knew who did so. Education is certainly part of the answer, but we also have address the other consequences of chronic poverty to enable and empower the poor to climb out of the pit society has put them in.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
Thank you Christy, it really is a MUST READ!
I repeat, it’s a MUST READ,
As dmoore points out @ 68, Edwards is rich. He got rich winning hard personal injury cases. But, we can see the hand of luck there too. I know lots of really good lawyers who never got the big case. If they had, they would have become rich too.
It should also be noted that Edwards is really rich. He isn’t just the millionaire next door, who got a pile the hard way, scrimping and saving. He won money in large chunks. That makes it easy to acquire capital.
Hi Christy.
Came downstairs here to alert – comments are not being loaded upstairs. either that or in a few minutes, you’ll get a bunch of repeated comments from me.
apologies mods! delete whatever suits you.
hope the system bugs are swept out before gonzo’s appearance tomorrow ;->
N=1 @ 119
okay, i will pass your info to some friends who i know are hiring for a major firm setting up shop here. no promises, but we’ll see…
Upstairs seems fixed.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 124
Thanks very much – my email addy is on the about page on the Universal Health blog.
noen @ 69
I totally agree. You have to have self dicipline to survive being poor in the good ole USofA.
Here’s the view from the bottom after my lightening fast fall from the middleclass.
How fast? I was sitting in my car at a stop light on the way home from a job I loved, when I was hit from behind by a driver under the influence. My car was totaled and I was disabled. Now I’m on social security sooner than planned and was turned down by SS disability because, for one reason, I have a Master’s degree. I couldn’t go to the Food Stamp appointment because the thought made me cry with shame. My children support me or I’d be like the lady on the corner who begs in the afternoon for what she tells me is walking around money ($30). I resent her. Every week I struggle with whether I should go to the Food Bank on seniors day, but I can’t yet.
Poverty is humiliation. It’s also a lot of work.
noen @ 106
I read somewhere right after Katrina that one of the motivating factors of the Rover Administration in the continued destruction of the ninth ward was the resurgence of the labor movement in that community. How convenient that the levee was busted open by that barge. Am I paranoid or has this government used every situation at hand to break the backs of the average and/or poor citizens? I always wondered how our society was going to level out and become part of the third world poor. I just thought it would take a little longer. World wide unions coupled with nonviolent action is part of the solution. The fight has not even begun.
mrobinsong @ 128
Humiliation, hard work, time consuming and ultimately, draining.
Audrey @ 130
Yes – I’m with you in the government humiliation dept. I have been selling off the rest of my belongings to pay for food. Was at one point rationing the last box of spaghetti to last over four days, and could “afford” to buy one banana with change found on the ground.
And the worst part is, that no one who is in a position to do anything about it cares. I’m sorry, I refuse not to vote (too many people died to preserve that right), but even though the Constitution says something about “promote the general welfare,” it somehow gets lost on the people who run for office. Most administrations, not just this one (NAFTA was shoved through by Bill Clinton) don’t care. What, exactly have the Democrats done? I know, I know, the wheels of justice grind slowly, but there are still plenty of smoky back rooms, and it’s got nothing to do with justice. It’s got something to do with leverage. The latest Clinton is just as dangerous as the previous Clinton, who was not much for civil rights either. But my biggest count against her is that she was in power (in the back room) once, and on one of the most important issues in this country, health care, she failed miserably! The rethugs, at least, are out front about the fact that they just don’t care. But poverty in this country is only the tip of a large smelly ice berg. And I agree with Cindy Sheehan. I do not love this country. And I don’t know what it is going to take to restore my faith in it, but it is going to have to begin with a great deal of telling of some very painful truths, the repeal of some totally unconstituional laws, the replacement of many of the people who supposedly represent us, and some restitution, yes, from the pockets of the big corporations (who are, whether we understand it or not) just people hiding behind a quirk of the law. And until that happens, don’t tell me about America the beautiful. We are weak, (unless we choose to make the entire planet uninhabitable), we are callous, we are provincial, and we are roundly hated by the rest of the world.
And this is nothing new.
First, a quote from Wilbur Cohen: “Programs for the poor are poor programs.”
Second, the disease that afflicts “poor” Americans is the same disease that afflicts all of us: inequality of opportunity. The rich are so well swathed in the trappings of the rich that most of them don’t notice that they are subject to the same ailment as the rest of us. Only the brightest among them understand why they must live their lives in gated communities.
Third, I look forward to the day when Americans seeking high government positions understand that their responsibility is to assure universal entitlements, not charity. They might then run more useful campaigns for high public offices.
Maybe we should have a retrospective about what the 1960s War on Poverty under Sargent Shriver actually did as far as programs are concerned. Let’s talk about what has lasted.
1. HeadStart – Pre-school education. It works. It’s been there. It has never in 40 years been funded completely. Where the problem in skills development is is in the late elementary and early middle school grades. Any gains from HeadStart get eroded by the third grade without other programs.
2. Job Corps – The CCC reconstituted. Never funded enough. Nixon replaced it with CETA, which was predicated on private involvement in getting people jobs. CETA was plagued with corruption and scandal.
3. Community Action Programs – Involved residents of poor communities in helping each other move out of poverty. Because one of the early forms of this help was the creation of a union for household domestic employees, Congress gradually eroded the innovative parts of this program, finally killing it in the Reagan administration.
4. Services for the elderly – Meals on Wheels started as a project of a local Community Action Program and was extended to other localities. A lot of the agenda developed in this area resulted in Medicare, elderly housing, elderly nutrition, and senior center programs that are well funded in affluent communities and underfunded in less affluent communities because most of the funding comes from local sources.
5. Housing Weatherization – A program of subsidizing the retrofitting of houses of low income people (primarily in rural areas) with insulation, storm windows and doors. This saved money on fuel, which allowed money for other things.
Yes, let’s get away from what failed in the 1960s. Let’s get away from rightwing canards about what poverty is and how to deal with it. Let’s get away from the idea that government is the problem not the solution.
If James Heckman is an economic professor at the University of Chicago, he and his department are part of the problem–the Chicago School of Economics, best exemplified by Milton Friedman and Gary Becker. Guess where the real failure has been.
The problem is so many faceted that it is hard to get your brain around it. Here is one issue we face-If you go to the IRS website you will find a chart that shows the incomes stated on all the individual tax returns filed, broken down into income brackets. Do a little math and you will see that more than half of all filers made 30K or less. The significance of this is staggering. These income amounts are reflective of the jobs that are out there. In other words-It doesn’t get any better than this. There aren’t 50 million 70K per year jobs for all these people to aspire to, or else they will have filled them. So logically, if half of the country is barely making above the poverty level, and we have a lot of really poor people who have less skills or more problems than the workers above, it will be very hard for them to get out of the poverty cycle without our intervention. The conservative mantra about the poor is the intellectually lazy way to think, and it is probably equal parts greed and lazy that allows their consciences peace when they think about what they have acceeded to.
Jay @ 10
Arguments that we are “kids” and that we have no control over our own lives (or economy) are pathetic and irrelevant.
We are in charge of our lives and our government and we will set things right AND the Chinese will like us for doing it and for helping them to improve their people’s lot to boot.
LS @ 43
Well, we tried the minimum wage increases and tax credits, but inflation always eats into increased income.
It seems we need to emulate the Rich by having set aside wealth assets (terrible phrasing, sorry). They use stocks & bonds, insurance, real estate, antiques, art, companies and other kinds of non-cash assets. Common folk need their home(s), insurance policies, retirement accounts like IRAs or 401Ks or Keoughs (usually invested in stocks & bonds) and hopefully in the future secure healthcare and secure corporate-assisted retirement funds and perhaps a couple of other ways to have wealth without cash in the pocket.
Another major improvement would be to ‘fix’ the way people borrow, so they don’t end up losing their homes when they borrow constantly on their home equity or when balloon payments push them past their limit. Credit card rates and credit card company behaviors which addict people who handle credit badly is certainly another obvious problem area.
Look to where people are falling down badly or are being pushed down by greedy corporate behavior and then fix those areas!
chinois @ 94
I’ve been on both sides of the equation – I went to one of Canada’s most elite private schools. The kids there were “on track”. To succeed all they had to do was follow the mileposts. “All they do” dimishes what they had to do really – it doesn’t mean they didn’t have to work hard, be disciplined and so on, they did. But if they were, they would succeed, damn near guaranteed. In their case hard work would pay off. And if they went off track for a bit, not only were there plenty of adults to get them back on track – both from their family and their school, but the kids they hung out with didn’t think getting off track was smart or cool or in any way admirable. Everything was conspiring to get these kids on track and keep them there. They had a chance to go as far as they could (I was a bursary student, even so, I’m an example of how free will can mess you up.)
Kids who grow up in poverty don’t have that. Their parents aren’t pushing them on the right path, their teachers might be, but odds are they aren’t really – school is a warehouse. And their peers don’t respect or value heading down the path to conventional success (except maybe athletic success). Nor is it obvious what you have to do to succeed. The goalposts aren’t highlighted for you in neon. And if you fall off the road, no one’s shoving you back on.
And poverty weighs you down. While I approve of the programs that have well-off people try and live on poverty wages for a week or a month; while I think they’re a good idea – they don’t catch either the desperation of thinking this will never end, or the wear and tear that comes from grinding poverty – where you put of medical expenses, you don’t get your hair cut, you eat the cheapest foods so you become pasty and unhealthy; you don’t get dental work done’ you don’t buy new clothes, and so on. You become run down and despair settles around you like an old coat.
And that despair is a huge negative to potential employers. One thing I found when I was job hunting when I was truly desperate, is that if you say “I’ll do anything” and you sound like you really mean it, no one will hire you. Desperation is a turnoff to people. They don’t like people who are down, they don’t like being around them, they don’t want to hire them or have anything to do with them.
So the more you need help, the less anyone wants to have to do with it. You walk through life, and your constant experience is of people turning away from you, refusing to give you a chance, refusng to lend a helping hand. It’s a vicious spiral even on a personal level, let alone on an intergenerational level, and it’s very hard to get out of it. Nor, in many cases, is there any attempt to get people out of it (for example, most welfare programs forbid recipients to go to college while receiving them.)
The social capital a kid receives from his parents and from his peers is immense. But within a life, success leads to success, and failure leads to failure and once someone is down, it’s often damn hard to get back up. And in general, society, rather than offering a hand up, either tosses them a quarter, or just walks around the heap on the ground carefully pretending not even to see it.
Ian Welsh @ 139
Yes – you have the despair part exactly right.
And there is also the condescension – people throwing out things – advice, job postings, etc. that they have no understanding aren’t within the grasp of the one in need. Akin to giving a frozen whole turkey to someone without a stove and a knife and fork. The turkey spoils raw, and the person is still starving. But now is also blamed for not having “taken advantage” of the handout of the turkey.