My question for tonite is: how long do we put up with this current media paradigm? I know paradigm is a big word for late-late nite, but really: what’s it gonna take to shift things bigtime from the David Broder mentality to the Dan Froomkin mentality? When does Andrea Mitchell give way to Marcy Wheeler? What does it take for Murray Waas to replace David Gregory?
Are we stuck with this “Dick Cheney Controls Tim Russert” setup? Or can we make some bigger strides in the next year towards a new way-things-work? Or do we have to continue to midwife the birth-pangs of the New Media Order, as we have with the Libby live-blogging, YearlyKos, Media Matters, and the WEb2.0? And how long will it take, damnit?
Or have we not even seen the next big thing?
What’s the landscape look like in 2017? Are there any dead-tree newspapers left? Have we reinstated the Fairness Doctrine? Can you say the seven dirty words yet on terrestrial radio?
I used to quip during the Libby live-blogging: “Present at the creation of a new media paradigm, etc.” How long does this creation take, and what do you suppose it all looks like when we get there?
Or just fool around. It’s L-Late Nite, after all….
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Zed !!!
For “O” times sake !!!
Uno!
TEDDY!!
cuatro!
zed is risen!
oh jeeze, I’m still all outta breath here ;-)
TRex @ 3
“Hello, Miss Channing. You were lovely tonite on the radio. Can I get you anything, Miss Channing?” purred the cunning understudy.
Petrocelli @ 1
Once again you lucky dog!!! I’m listening to KIRO, right now!!! I’m waiting for TRex!!!
I pontificate that by 2017 at least half of the media budget of any major corporation that now goes to the MSM will go to various blogs and equivalent channels. I go farther and suggest by 2050 MSM as we currently know it (both dt nps and broadcast/cable video feeds) will be dead or so changed as to be unrecognizable from their current form.
TSF! Double dog dare goldy to call this post silly.
ach, CT, you’re too late — it’s over!
CT you missed it – it is over.
LoudounLib @ 6
you did great!
CTuttle @ 8
Hey Buddy, how’s it goin’, eh?
LL was kind enough to blog the show for those of us who could not listen in !!!
Gee, CT. That Maui stuff really messes with the time sense doesn’t it? ;-p
aw thank you Teddy, and persiflage did great too!
Suzanne @ 10
Evening, Ma Cheri!!! What’s the current count on M*Space? I registered today!!! Lot’s of renovation needed tho!!! *g*
CT it is not my space.
It is facebook.
did you register on the wrong one?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 9
Yikes, what’ll Koppel do then ? *g*
Evenin’ AK !!!
Well, I think I will head off to bed as well. Take care of yourselves and enjoy the snark.
Petrocelli @ 19
I remember watching Nightline when it was doing the Iran Hostage Crisis. The First Time. I though koppel was ok, until I learned he worshipped Rush Oxycontin. That was the ballgame for me.
And evenin’ back, Petrocelli. It seems the gremlins have gone somewhere else to play.
If anyone was wondering at my silence until now, the answer is simple. like many other old men, i feel asleep in my chair. neener.
So, AK, you mean the media advertising budgets of corps will be 50/50? Wow, that would be impressive, but does it mean we’ll be inundated with advertising on the blogs, do you think?
And is there a more annoying ad-type than those damn Vanity Fair pop-overs as you go in AND as you leave? I was so glad watertiger didn’t have a Wolcott link in her snarkitude post today — I get so tired of those!
LoudounLib @ 11
Aaah, Ce La Vie!!! I was busy cooking for the Fam, The piece de resistance was Eggplant Parmigiana!!! Ooh,La,La…. ;-)
FireDogLake facebook group has 348 members.
g’night DrDick, sleep well
Current facebook FDL count is 348. Not bad!
I’m really sad tonight. I’m going to go water the animals….
Suzanne @ 18
My Bad!!! It was FaceBook!!! 8-)
LS, what’s up?
LS @ 27
Why so low, LS?
Suzanne @ 24
Kewl, It was 317 when I jumped on the bandwagon!!! Never thought I would contemplate, much less join such a site!!! ;-)
Alfred Kelgarries @ 21
He recently appeared on TDS and mouthed Rove’s talking points … war on terror, lasting generations, etc. …
… kinda fuzzy now … the brain bleach removed most of it … *g*
LS @ 27
I saw you got the smackdown, and I didn’t understand why, LS.. What’s up?
The struggle to restore a free press in this country isn’t one of those “ghostly dances of the categories” beloved of idealistic philosophy. The outlook of the talking heads on TV promotes the interests of its sponsors and the talking heads themselves, who, after all, would be teaching school or writing obits if they were foolish enough to speak truth to power or just display too much competence. Ideas are not the crucial element. Indeed, mentalities are a dime a dozen, except for the rather mediocre mentality that lands you a summer place in the Hamptons. It will never be enough to demonstrate the intellectual inadequacies of the famous “ruling paradigm,” which, after all, is just a bunch of cliches and fantasies that hardly deserves so exalted a label as paradigm.
(OT, and confidential to Suzanne — that live-blogging was so much fun, and it did remind me of police ’spatching — I might have to take that up again before I retire, as right now I only do fire and NCIC ;-) )
Suzanne @ 24
I’m on there as (surprise) Petrocelli … might I suggest that you put your FDL name in the middle of your own name, so we can identify you.
DrDick @ 15
Aw Right, Doctor(no pause)Dick!!! Familial duties beckoned!!! :P
CT, if you’re on Facebook now — look me up in the FDL group ;-)
Petrocelli, my facebook name is suzanne twoton. does that help?
LS @ 27
Hey LS, remember our talk about yoga the other night?
Do not give anyone the right to manage your mood !!!
TeddySanFran @ 22
No, not at all. Remember, I’m a history buff, did a minor in chinese history along with the main EE one. So I remember the early days of RADIO, when it was brand new. no one had figured out how to translate newspaper advertisements to the spoken format. The famous “And now a word from our sponsors” is the indication of that. so to try to get better audience penetration, the concept of product placement was invented. Celebrities were paid hamdsomely by companies if they would simply mention them on the air as part of a normal conversation. This led eventually to the marvellous encounter on the Jack Benny show where WC Fields was asked a normal question, and responded with the two remaining product names that had never managed to get a mention (they were rather odd ones IIRC). Benny stared at him and then lost it. Fields got two enormous checks a week later.
Of course, the payola and other regs eventually led to the commercial format we have now. but at the moment the web is thrashing about, looking for a viable ad model that can work in such a different medium (from an advertisers standpoint, the worst features of print ads and of video ads in one format). But market forces will prevail and a workable model will emerge. When that happens, more and more ad dollars will move to the web.
Whoofah.
The Iran war scenario is sure getting a big workout this weekend.
DishonestlyingsackofshitJoe LIEberman is calling for war, war, war.
The US is conducting exersizes with the Israeli military.
Drudge is running war rumors.
Iran is telling the regional Gulf States that they’re on a big fat target list and so are US bases and or course Israel.
The Jerusalem Post is running a story about how the US will rely heavily on the Navy and Air Force for any Iranian attacks.
This is not good.
-GSD
2 years ago … last year … NOW. I stopped watching teevee “news” at least 1.5 years ago — and it might have been longer.
I am used to most Americans being way behind me, but this is ridiculous.
Petrocelli @ 14
I swear it was the BC Electric!!! Not, the home grown!!! How goes life??? *g*
CTuttle @ 31
Did you add me as a friend?
Loo Hoo. @ 33
I have no idea. I tried to ask why? nada. When? nada. I don’t need that kind of attack when all I want is justice and peace in this life. I’m really upset. Tell me what I said. Show me what I said.
TRex @ 3
TRex — we missed you!
Gorram it. I’m LOCAL to KIRO and I missed TRex yet again. This life thing has just got to stop. :P
((( LS ))) just because
LooHoo,
You asked about our elections but I was busy trying out my live-blogging skills, such as they are.
We don’t have an election date yet but it’s likely to be Nov/Dec. Right now, it’s looking like the electorate has had enough of Howard ad the new Labor leader, Kevin Rudd, is doing well in the polls. Still, it’s not unlike the position we were in in 2001. Had the election been in July that year we would have had a change of government. Then there were a spate of refugee arrivals, then Sept 11 happened, Howard used them both to create an image of strength (only an image, mind you) and was reelected. If a week is a long time in politics, 6 months is an eternity.
Good Question TSF!
I was just thinking about this last with the introduction of FB and to answer your question these replacements or shifts has already occurred. It is a paradigm shift that is here to stay and will only become more robust.
Petrocelli @ 45
Can you believe it, I had to prostrate myself to the FDL Mods to register!!! I never felt so humiliated!!! ;-)
LS – I have done some research and believe this was the thread from yesterday referred to. Start with your comment at 110. I believe that is what he was referring to.
Hope that helps.
GSD @ 42
DGIH, I hope things are worked out soon in congress. I totally respect Richardson on the deauthorization, but we need someone in charge to stop any aggresion toward Iran. Now.
Stop me if you’ve heard this one before.
Cronyism Trumps Competence.
This time, it’s immigration judges.
Petrocelli @ 40
Thank you. You are right.
I think I’m just as upset for the other person, you see. They see things from a different perceptive. I’m going to go run the water to my horses, and I’ll be back.
CTuttle @ 44
Canadian dollar is almost on par with the U.S. dollar … it has zoomed to more than 94 cents … to give perspective, the Can. dollar was about 64 cents in Jan ‘03.
Suzanne @ 24
Making gains on MyDD :)
DreamingCrow @ 48
I’ll second that notion!!!
CT, was that when you were trying to join the FDL Moderators at facebook?
LS @ 46
It had to have been a misunderstanding, LS. Far as I know, you didn’t do anything outside of discuss current events. Don’t feel bad. We love you!
Petrocelli @ 57
My Mom must be ecstatic! She receives a Canadian Pension for my Dad’s untimely demise, it’s usually $.76 to the US Dol.!!!
((((((LS))))))
I think the whole BushWorld Bubble has to go *poof* before the Mainly Slavish Media will dissolve and reconstitute itself to serve whoever becomes the ‘new power in town.’
For them, it’s not about the News – it’s about the money to be made marketing the News.
OT again
tw3k, you asked about my instant message, last thread. I said something about how we were listening to TRex and live-blogging the whole thing at FDL.
(and the poor studio assistant guy had no idea how to pronounce Loudoun, but that’s ok ;-) )
burnspbesq @ 55
Haven’t read the article yet, but wasn’t this one area where Monica2.0 claimed to have “crossed the line?”
persiflage, who are your new progressive candidates for Dec/Jan? What do you mean you don’t have an election date? Isn’t that built-in?
LL what was it that you wrote to TREX in that im that was read?
Suzanne @ 60
Yes’m, that would be the time! Does it link me with the other 348? Or, does further action need to be taken on my part??? *g*
lol Suzanne, I was just reminded that tw3k wanted to know, too — I said something about how TRex’s loyal firepups were listening and live-blogging :-)
radiofreewill @ 63
I am very afraid that they will find their ballsac when a Democrat’s elected Preznit. Wanna bet?
Suzanne @ 24
Not bad for two days!
Bob in HI
Oh and I’m on Facebook, just responded to the name discussion in the FireDogLake group.
Teddy, are you on Facebook?
Yes’m, that would be the time! Does it link me with the other 348? Or, does further action need to be taken on my part??? *g*
You need to joing the GROUP firedoglake. if you click on my facebook page, and look on groups…..
brother, can you paradigm?
TeddySanFran @ 70
Who wants to lose money on a ringer of a bet. Not only will the media do all it can to cripple, belittle and eviscerate a Democrat president, the far right wing nuts will also start blowing shit-up in America again.
-GSD
radiofreewill @ 63
IIRC, a famous person said “freedom of the press only applies to a person if they own a printing press.” Video and Radio media are even worse, and due to their absorbtion into large conglomerates, the bottom line does become all powerful. Also, video and audio are vulnerable to license attack. For example, two Venezuelan TV stations were shut down not by armed forces or secret police, but by the government simply not renewing their licenses to broadcast. don’t think that chimpy and his ilk would hesitate to use that ploy if they could.
The web, OTOH, is the ultimate grassroots printing press. It combines low entry barriers, fast almost cost free distribution, little or no censorship, and massive penetration of a desired segment due to the confluence of interests. (We are all here at FDL because we care about liberal causes and are politically active. Other than that, we have almost nothing in common that a traditional MSM channel could use to reach us with its normal marketing techniques.)
So we are truly at a crossroads in information distribution in the world. how it will come out is anyone’s guess right now.
CTuttle @ 62
Yes, especially if she’s going to America. My mom recently went to Florida and the cocky custom agent ‘interrogated’ her for more than 45 minutes … had her dizzy and all.
I wrote a very stern letter to my friend at the consulate, using words to the effect that if the U.S. of A. has to worry about 70- year old Indian women, it’s game over.
I wish I was there to discuss matters with that customs officer … abuse of power … grumble grumble grumble …
You Guys! Thanks. I looked through the thread, and I can’t see what was offensive..if it was, I’m sorry…never my intention in life. MarkfromIreland, if you are watching…PEACE. Remember, I’m on your side.
Apart from that, I’m going out to run H2O to the horses…I’ll be back. Love you guys (gals, or whatever) :)
Loo Hoo. @ 66
Nope, no automatic election date. The Prime Minister can call fresh elections any time between the election of his/her government and 3 years post-election. As the 2004 elections were held in November, we expect the next elections will be too. In the past, some PMs have called elections as early as 18 months after they were elected, especially when they faced a hostile Senate or an unstable coalition in the House of Reps. The upside of this is that the gap between the elections being called and held is usually about 4 weeks. Imagine that, only 4 weeks of TV ads and election talk. I don’t know how Americans put up with what’s become 2 years of campaigning for President.
punaise @ 75
punaise – i was clarifying your testosterone based life form status last thread.
punaise @ 75
Oy, bedbug.
When will we have a new media paradigm? Well…
There’s a story I encountered in one of Isaac Asimov’s “science-fact” essays. It’s about how change in science works. Basically, according to this version, there are four steps in how a new scientific hypothesis is adopted.
1. A scientist must craft a hypothesis detailing how a particular physical phenomenon occurs.
2. Next, run a series of rigorously controlled experiments collecting data that support this hypothesis.
3. Then write up the results and publish them in a reputable, refereed scientific journal.
4. Finally, wait for all the old scientists to die off, because they’re not going to believe it anyway.
Like a lot of people, I long believed that most of the MSM dinosaurs were decent people who were just somehow misguided. David Broder is the best of many examples. Then the blogs came along, and the opportunity for these people to learn from their mistakes, as long as they could overcome a natural reluctance to eat publicly administered crow, was there for them to take. But since they were in fact decent people who at base cared most about journalistic principles, they would do it. So I was convinced.
They’re not interested. If they don’t get it by now, they are not going to, and they are not the disinterested seekers of truth that many of us thought they were. And David Broder, I think, really is decent but misguided. But you know what? That’s no excuse. When he’s wrong he refuses to admit it, mostly out of stubbornness and misplaced pride, and there is no more reason he should be allowed to get away with it than anyone else.
In short: we get the new media paradigm as soon as we make ourselves impossible to ignore for a long enough period of time. Or maybe it’s already, just a little bit, here.
TeddySanFran @ 70
Well, if it’s Gore, they’ll have to fire all those airheads and hire some intellectuals !!!
punaise, tell me what it is again? My contempt for Joe LIEberman will…..
TeddySanFran @ 65
I think that’s right, TSF. It’s the thing she volunteered in her testimony in order to try and get it within the scope of her immunity. LHP is probebly much more likely than I am to give an accruate assessment of whether that’s likely to work, but it seemed like a stretch to me at the time.
Petrocelli @ 78
Where was that, Petro?
In my experience, the US Customs people who work at Pearson Airport are some of the biggest pricks in the entire U.S. government. Especially the fat guy with the flat-top.
LS @ 79
LS, i was napping in my chair when it all went down, so i have no clue. BUT, as a wizened old codger who remembers the days when we had to send our IP packets by carrier pidgeon, I would like to say that all of us who choose to meet to exchange information in a setting like the lake run the risk of having an electronic breakdown in communications just like happens in the real world. how many of us have been talking to a friend or coworker and said just the wrong thing? in those circumstances, fixing the communication problem is much easier because there is no time lag and also no possibility of incorrect interpretation of feedback. Group gatherings on the modern Internet suffer from both those additional detriments to fixing bad communication. It is another of the issues we as point-persons in the exploration of this new media will have to overcome.
Lord, I’m getting pompous in my old age…
wait, burns, I think that guy works at Dulles too ;-)
persiflage, I love the idea of short campaigns, but how can one person/party decide when to hold elections? Sounds like something other than democracy, no?
Petrocelli @ 78
Mi Amigo, My Mom, and her Mother, live here on the Isle!!! However, My Wife, was forced to strip down to her Undie’s at our local airport, of which I was mobilized to guard immediately after 9/11!!! She was dressed in a Sun Dress and sandals, this was just prior to her Cruise!!! She needed the cruise to cool off!!! *g*
LoudounLib @ 73
no, i’m scared of it
i am a very late adopter, paradigm shift or no.
hi punaise!
ok that’s it for me — for one thing it is waaaay past my bedtime, even though I’m off tomorrow…and that live-blogging, oy! But it was fun…
Good night all!
burnspbesq @ 87
It was at Pearson … my mom was too giddy to tell the prick that two of her brothers fought in Vietnam and two of our relatives are in Iraq … and that he should shove it up his *ss. I would have told him exactly that, verbatim. It might have gotten me thrown off the flight, then I would have called my peeps in the media and the Consulate and register a complaint. Harassing a 70- year old woman? What a dumb*ss !!!
Yes, LS … as I was saying … never let someone press your buttons … *g*
LoudounLib @ 89
No matter how outrageous their behavior, I can’t afford to mess with Customs. They can put you on a no-fly list for no good reason, it’s virtually impossible to get off once you’re on, and if I can’t fly, I can’t work in my specialty.
LoudounLib @ 89
No, no, I’ve seen him at Vancouver. *g*
Loo Hoo. @ 90
oh no, it is actually much more democratic than our system. the system persiflage is referring to is Parliamentary Democracy and has several major advantages over our system. It is basically a feedback arrangement where a party remains in control only if they keep the people happy enough to keep voting the party in power back into power on a regular basis (these systems don’t usually vote for an individual but for a party. normally the person who is to be the rep is well known tho). Thus if a given party brings home the bacon (good economy, few foreing problems, social progress, etc) they get to stay in power. when things stop working, they get voted out. if a given LEADER of a party screws up too much, he can be replaced as has happened with Tony Poodle, but this may not force his party out of office.
To give it a meaningful example, under a PD system, Bill Clinton would still have been in power in 2001 and thus no 9-11. When he got ready to step down, Al Gore would have naturally taken his place, without having any likely vulnerability to chimpy. in many ways it is a better system than ours. sigh.
hey Teddy, just passing through
g’nite LL – thanks again – time to let your fingers rest up
petrocelli – this totally cracked me up Yes, LS … as I was saying … never let someone press your buttons … *g* at the end of your rant (which was excellent btw)
GSD @ 76
Every citizen, Dem and Rep, needs to see what we (at least 70% of us) have almost lost – this is going to be a ‘close run thing’ if we are to save the Republic.
I hope that FDL will go multiplex at some point and have regular ‘work the phones and e-mails’ threads during the week and on the weekends, too – kind of a ‘karma’ yoga where we can extend our commenting into action.
The blogosphere needs to be the new Paul Revere – everyone needs to know what we know.
TeddySanFran @ 96
Must be something about the job that attracts them …
Loo Hoo. @ 89
If one person could decide not to hold elections, that would be undemocratic. When the PM calls an election he’s up for reelection too. He could lose his own seat in Parliament. It’s possible that John Howard might lose his seat this time, he only has a 4% advantage and the Labor Party is running a very popular and respected newscaster against Howard. Polling suggests that she might just tip him out. Oh God, I want to see this. The Liberal party (Howard’s outfit, not all that liberal) lose power and the Bonsai* loses his seat. Oh, the disgrace!
* We call Howard the Bonsai because he’s just a little Bush.
Suzanne @ 99
Thanks for noticing … I had to swim a looooong way for that punchline … *g*
wait, burns, I think that guy works at Dulles too ;-)
No, no, I’ve seen him at Vancouver. *g*
Must be something about the job that attracts them …
Let me introduce you to Gus, The TSA automatron working on behalf of the Rethuglicrook party at our nations borders. Notice his belly which shows we are a land of plenty. His flattop haircut reflects his loyalty to the chain of command. The Decider approved this model personally and choose his own personality to be troned into Gus.
thank you again Suzanne, for the support –
and a BIG thanks to persiflage!
Over and out…
Thanks, Alfred K.
Suzanne @ 104
What’s the significance of the lack of a neck, Suzanne?
Loo Hoo. @ 106
dare i ask for what? i’m overly commentty tonite, probably due to the fact my dad had a really great weekend, his anti-alzheimers meds were in top form. i really enjoyed being with the real person in there for at least a while…
persiflage @ 102
Ha! Bonsai! Clever Aussie speak.
Journalism (doing what Murray Waas and Marcy do) will never be “cool” and may never be mainstream again. Yes, it should be; but it is not. The only way to get a new “paradigm” is to ignore the old one and make your own. Maybe it will become the main stream someday; maybe it won’t. Bothering to care is the problem.
persiflage at 102:
so we have the chimp, the poodle, and the bonsai. swell. no wonder the west is in such “good” shape….(barf)
I’ve tried to post the video before, to elicit remarks from the Lake, it is a dated video, however the criteria is still pertinent today!!! I really would appreciate the Lake to take a gander and post a remark on it!!! It is extremely thought provoking!!! :-)
http://video.google.com/videop…..3502527420
What’s the significance of the lack of a neck, Suzanne?
The Decider didn’t like the first version, and you know what the Decider wants, he gets. Said the neck could be a target for a turritz attack. Choke holds and such. They made the mistake of showing him the prototype after he watched 24.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 108
Oh, sorry. Your comment at 97 was new info to me!
Suzanne @ 99
What’s funny is, when I travel, it’s usually to teach my meditation course, so when I tell that to the agent, he/she usually ask me for pointers on managing stress.
Once I showed a pregnant customs agent a foot massage that would lessen her sciatica pain and just then, her superior officer walked up.
I said, “She’s making me kiss her feet!” and we all guffawed.
The Indian custom agents pull out photos of their kids and make me bless them …
Suzanne @ 104
It’s the reprogramming that’s to blame. Gus 1.0 was polite, respectful, and helpful back when Customs was part of Treasury.
And Alfred, glad to hear you had a nice visit with your dad. Next Sunday is Father’s Day!
LS – That was the first time I’d seen that particular poster, but I got the impression that he makes regular trips to B-town and has a very ‘up close and personal’ view of the occupation – a bit hardened, to say the least, but not trying to knock anybody’s block off.
Rest assured, your sentiment and style is much appreciated by all of us who just want the Occupation to end, leaving Iraq to Iraqis, and bringing our boys and girls home to their families!
Alfred Kelgarries @ 111
Well the poodle will soon toodle, how about I’ll take care of Bonsai is you take on Chimpy.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 111
Our feckless leader, Stephen Harper is also called Bush- Lite … funny because he is quite, er … rotund. Once you Aussies turf Howard, please come up here and help us tar and feather Steve (as Dubya calls him) and his Cohorts. Beers are on us !!!
It’s the reprogramming that’s to blame. Gus 1.0 was polite, respectful, and helpful back when Customs was part of Treasury.
I think it may be be part of it since that homeland security ghoul really forked up his programming in the personality areas. I heard he had his friend who knows a little atari code work on it on a no bid contract.
Petrocelli @ 120
I’ll start plucking the emus, you’ll have to supply the tar.
punaise @ 75
Good one!
The subject up top is a good one.
Re Murray Waas, today I watched a rerun of the YKos 2006(!) Plamegate panel, and Murray was saying how his homebase print source had a circulation of only 13,000 (how can they afford to pay Murray full time???), but that he gets a lot of exposure from FDL and (one other blog that I can’t remember). And he’s considered a “traditional” journalist.
On the same panel, Marcy was insisting that she is NOT a journalist, because she thinks it would cramp her style. One of the examples she used was the (snarky) epithet “Steno Sue” that she could use as short-hand on a blog, but someone like Murray could never do.
But I really think blogs are changing the way news is done. First, Television news has become a division of Entertainment. Truth is secondary. The Washington Talking Heads like Timmeh are all fake journalists who really are opinionators. They get facetime on the tube because they have name recognition.
Second, see the marvelous post on journalism, “10 obvious things about the future of newspapers you need to get through your head.” And then compare that with Jay Rosen’s nice summary of exemplars of what’s happening in the blogosphere. I would only add one exemplar to Jay’s:
Perhaps you remember “Rather-gate”: my first encounter with powerful blogging. That was the infamous skewering of Dan Rather on Sept. 9, 2004 by the right-wing Powerline, relating to some personal papers Rather claimed to have on Bush’s military service, reported on 60 Minutes the night before. The whole sensational blog, known as The Sixty-first minute, was for me an eye-opener on this thing called “blogging”.
These differ from the traditional print media in having constant updates: Newspapers actually have to be printed. Subscribers have to be sent their issue, and they only get one per day, with no updates. News cycles are faster than that now. You just can’t have a 24 hour news cycle any more. That idea was actually demonstrated by CNN way back when Ted Turner went to international satellite networking, and sponsored a 24-hour news channel. TV news is now killing print media because its on all the time.
Internet news beats 24-hour TV news because of hyperlinks: It gives the viewer control over the news. The conventional news media are trying to go that route, but at the same time they’re trying to control their “product”– but this fight is going the same way (e.g., with NYT “Select”) as the music industry has gone with its fight over Napster and downloadable mp3s and such: RIAA is slamming copyright violation, ostensibly to help poor starving musicians, but you know who really has the dog in that fight.
I think real news 10 years from now is going in the direction of “News aggregators” that, by means of RSS feeds and the like will put together YOUR OWN virtual newspaper: Section 1: Hard news, from your favorite sourcs. Section 2, for those that want it: Sports news on your favorite teams, wherever they may be located. Section 3: Your favorite editorials, whether its Marcy Wheeler from TNH, or Glenn Greenwald from Salon, or Keith Olberman’s Worst Person in the World, or what. Section 4, Entertainment. Or whatever your thing is.
Something will have to be worked out about subscriptions. After all, the Murray Waas’s of the world need to be supported for their investigative journalism. But that’s the emerging paradigm, as I see it.
Bob in HI
I think all firedogs who joined facebook should start a petition for a (space book) space where we could enter our fdl handles. I don’t know who everyone is.
350 signatures might get a reply from the space powers.
Up late ’cause we were just the lucky recipients of criminal mischief: front door pushed open, couple of panes of glass cracked. Very scary at 11:30 at night. Made a huge sound, like something falling and crashing. Kids are having a little trouble getting to sleep.
On the plus side, I’ve gotten to read more late-night comments than usual.
persiflage @ 122
… er … will bacon grease do ? *g*
radiofreewill, that commenter has been commenting at the lake for a long time. you are correct about the frequent trips to btown and that we all have the same common goal of troops out now.
… er … will bacon grease do ? *g*
——————————————-
Only if it’s organic.
Eureka Springs @ 124
I just put my handle in between my real name. I think you can edit it after the fact.
radiofreewill @ 118
No problem. After re-reading the language, it seems there might have been something like a “hichin” my getalong, and I’ll leave it at that ;}
Other Pat @ 125
That’s awful, Other Pat. Any idea who was behind it?
estiv @ 83
Did he write that before or after Thomas Kuhn wrote is famous little book about the Nature of Scientific Revolutions? (Which, btw, introduced the meaning of paradigm in the sense in which it is now usually used.)
Bob in HI
Forget the Fairness Doctrine. If you reinstate it, it will be enforced only against Pacifica Radio; Big Media will get around it by having every Hannity chose his own Colmes, and letting Joe Lieberman give the Democratic position on the issue of the day.
Instead, use antitrust. Break up the media empires. Imagine if the 300 cable stations had 100 different owners instead of five or six.
I just put my handle in between my real name. I think you can edit it after the fact.
Yeap, go to account and it is down at the bottom – change name.
Other Pat @ 125
That’s why I always have a BIG DAWG!!!
Suzanne – Thanks!
h/t to the techs! This upgrade has surely been a strain, but I’m experiencing much-improved speed and I like the layout, too!
The Lake is Great!
G’nite, all
CTuttle @ 112
I’m watching it now, buddy … half way through … those nazis have smeared the Indian culture forever … they took our Swastika and used it to symbolize their heinous atrocities. The Swastika is meant to convey “unlimited success” but it must be used only to uplift humanity and spread love and peace.
B*stards !!!
Yikes, OtherPat. That is so frightening to hear crashing noises and glass breaking like that while sleeping.
Loo Hoo. @ 54
I agree except I don’t know who in Congress could be that force. And, we saw how much respect Dubya had for the Iraq Study Group devised by his father.
Maybe, with Hillary’s ‘help’, it’s time for Bill Clinton to step into the fray and call for George and Hillary to powwow to solve the problem. It creates a nice image of Hillary as peace-maker and a natural successor, don’tcha think?
Troops maybe stuck in Baghdad a la Dien Bien Phu.
Admiral put in charge of Joint Chiefs just as the possibility of a naval & air campaign is prepared to go.
Lieberman yelling war.
Wait for McCain to repeat ‘bomb bomb bomb…’.
Hillary triangulating like Euclid.
Nope, it doesn’t look good.
Petrocelli @ 126
Not from your Canadian Ham hocks, Eh??? *g*
Here’s my take. We have increasingly seen the Mainstream Media become nothing more than an extension of right-wing talk-radio. In fact, many of the “pundits” that are exposed on the MSM broadcast and cable networks are rethreads from talk-radio. Ironically, the history of how precisely conservative talk radio exploded in the 1980’s and 90’s has yet to be written…but they were the first to truly exploit the AM frequencies (going back to the days of Father McLaughlin, Joe Pyne and Morton Downey Sr.). Throughout this period there was nary a liberal or progressive response…except perhaps the folks on Pacifica.
The right was able to “fashion” a seeming “power-base” from Talk Radio by mobilizing crackpot responses and calls en masse by their listeners thus elevating the appearance of support far above what actually might exist. I recall that one conservative talk show host called for a “massive” pro-Iraq counter demonstration during the run-up to the Iraq War…about 25 people showed up (to the 3000 or so opposed). Of course this meagre number was interviewed and shots on the local news were close-ups distorting how many people actually showed.
But the one TV station that even covered the demos was affiliated with the radio station who had the right-wing jock that called for the counter-demonstration.
Blogging is the liberal/progressive response to talk radio. Unlike talk-radio it allows for in-depth analysis WITH reader response. Literacy and factuality are encouraged. A talk show host can say something that is an utter lie, and screeners can repeatedly shield the host from challengers. Anda semi-literate blogger will not attract commentators or readers. Perhaps more than any other medium, blogging has illuminated just why literacy still counts in this country. Reading and writing well, with clarity of logical thinking is rewarded. I suspect this is why the right-wing have failed so deliciously at their blogs, resembling not-so-much intelligent informants to the public as ranting inbred alcoholics, Stockholm Syndrome abductees, or viral Valdemorts with vendettas.
This may be the one vehicle where an Austin, Twain, or Mencken would flourish today. They certainly would failto get a word of wisdom into the shout-fests on FAUX, CNN or MSNBC where Neanderthal shrieks and pre-simian yelps are called “talking points”.
Blog sites are expressions of the personalities and interests of the readers as much as the original poster/author. Blog sites are not very expensive to manage (at least compared to radio/TV) and much of the income (such as it is) can go towards actual news gathering.
Blogs can obtain both volunteer or paid on-site reporters. While they may not have access to the major politicians who will give their own “spin” on events, they do have access to average people, and ofter the underground figures that are the “invisible actors”. Bloggers can also reach into a large pool of gifted and intelligent commentators that mainstream analyses now frequently abjure as “too intellectual” (i.e. too well informed) to give a ten second sound-bite.
Blogs can operate 24 hours a day, can digest and comment upon events happening across the globe in minutes. The readership of the blogs can form analytical teams ~such as has occurred with the Friday PM document releases by the White House. I find that this has actually backfired on the Administration…Fridays being absolutely the WORST TIME to send out documents to working people with a free weekend. The “dump” worked fine with MSM types who had no intent of doing work on docs over the weekend, though…and it generally resulted in loads of material being ignored until Tuesday or Wednesday of the following week, if examined at all. Now the blogs are on top of this within 24 hrs, or less…and nothing prevents their publicxation or discussion on the web…and the use of such exposed docs by others as clues to track down other links.
Weekends were the time for releasing “bad news” simply because the odds that someone would be watching an evening news show was reduced (given sports, dinner dates, events on the town, etc.). But since many people carry a laptop, check email, and news or blog sites wherever they go…and they can check this at anytime (not just when the program aired) it allows for massive increased information flow to those who use the net.
This makes blogs a potentially new form of social communication as effective as the broadside pamphlets in the Revolutionary War. Of course, King George attempted to control these by taxing paper. Wonder what New George will attempt.
What do WE do if we wake up to news one morning that bombing have occurred in Iran???? We need to think about this now.
thanks and g’nite radiofreewill (and anyone else I might have missed)
LoudounLib @ 64
heh :)
Other Pat @ 125
Goodness, sounds scary. I’ll bet the kids are having trouble.
persiflage @ 128
What about tar sands? *g*
Nothing will change as long as there are media conglomerates owning 90% of the media market.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C….._ownership
Petrocelli @ 137
Disregard the Nazi references, superimpose Shrub, the similarities are striking and foreboding!!! Despotism clearly has the edge within our current regime!!! The hallmarks are clearly there!!!
persiflage @ 131
Nope. We just moved to this house a couple of months ago — haven’t been here long enough to get anyone really angry, I wouldn’t think. Maybe it was the Welcome Wagon … a really moody Welcome Wagon Lady. More likely, it’s high-schoolers bored on a summer night. A vote for year-round schooling.
Loo Hoo. @ 114
I live to serve the lake! also, try here for even better info!
This Bright Shiny Object, FB, Jane has put before us has hampered my ability to keep up with the comments!
Loo Hoo. @ 117
I’d forgotten. Unfortunatley, the meds work randomly, but we’ll hope…
Petrocelli @ 146
Athabascan Tar Sands, Mi Amigo!!! ;-)
Thanks, all, for your concern and comments.
We have a golden retriever — she was sleeping.
I was awake, along with the 13-year-old, who was at the computer in the next room. Others were awakened.
I think it’s just the 13-year-old and I up now. Things will look better in the morning, I’m sure. Again, thanks — time to try and sleep before that pesky 6 o’clock alarm.
Joe Buck @ 133
This is exactly the strategy “Big” ed Schultz espoused at the Talker’s Magazine conference yesterday.
CTuttle @ 148
I have to say, not only because of my gift for foretelling certain events, but when he gave that State of The Union speech after 9/11, my mouth went dry … I knew what he would unleash would cause the havoc we are seeing today. What surprised me the most, was how Tom Daschle and the Dems went along so easily with whatever Dubya said, even though the French (who had more intelligence on the region) and Canada and most of the other countries were advising against it.
Petrocelli @ 156
Even the British!!! MI-5/6 were against the notion, look to the Downing Street Memos, WTF was Tony looking at??? *g*
Even the British!!! MI-5/6 were against the notion, look to the Downing Street Memos, WTF was Tony looking at??? *g*
—————————————–
Tony was gazing lovingly into the eyes of his beloved George.
This is OT, and i’ll repost it on the next GW (no dammit those are chimpy’s initials grrrr) Global Warming thead:
British firm unveils first zero emissions house! All UK new homes must meet these standards by 2016!
Alfred Kelgarries @ 108
Alfred K,
I remember how that was from when my late father had Alzheimer’s. He spoke to his brother on the phone (this is all 20 years ago) and they were talking about a high school football game, reliving each play of it, how red the dirt was on their uniforms. Amazing.
CTuttle @ 157
Poodle bought the Dossier – the burden of evidence, which he tried to sell to Europe, I still remember Dominique de Villepin’s frustration at Poodle and Dubya …
persiflage @ 158
Fricking Lap Poodle!!! Sorry, Jane…!!!
Margot @ 160
It is indeed. I am learning far more about my dad from his reminiscences than I ever knew before…makes me love and respect him even more than I already did, if possible…
My Mom had dementia. Believe me, I can relate.
I have long suspected Poodle’s willingness to be involved in chimpy’s schemes in iraq are due to the very large windfall British Petroleum and Royal Dutch Shell (owned by the British Royal Family) would get from the outcome. He knew well that being PM would not last forever, and of course the oil firms would be HONORED to have such an insightful gentleman on their boards and doing consulting…
>>Poodle bought the Dossier – the burden of evidence, which he tried to sell to Europe, I still remember Dominique de Villepin’s frustration at Poodle and Dubya …
what is this facebook thing and why is everyone going there? It asks for a password…that scared me off. ; (
okay mods, we have a new bug. when i try to quote someone from a previous comment, i lose the submit comment button and it doesn’t come back until i hit refresh comments…(firefox on pc)
Alfred Kelgarries @ 165
… to say nothing of the $$$ spent on munitions …
>>Poodle bought the Dossier – the burden of evidence, which he tried to sell to Europe, I still remember Dominique de Villepin’s frustration at Poodle and Dubya …
Take 2. I remember it well, poor OLD Europe, unaware that Dubya and Tone weren’t interested in that fuzzy, girlie-man logic stuff.
Petrocelli @ 57
That’s just LOONY!
spiderpaws @ 167
I didn’t enter my e-mail password. No idea why FB would prompt you to do that! It seems to work just fine with out that.
Petrocelli @ 169
I’m more inclined to look at the Big Oil relationship rather than the Munitions, they were predominately US munitions expended!!!
spiderpaws @ 166
hi spidey – it is ok… tis jane approved and i even did it – miss privacy freak herself
Alfred Kelgarries @ 167
AK when i click on quote this comment, my refresh comments button starts its countdown but my submit comment button does not change. PC firefox. hmmm how is your cache?
spiderpaws @ 167
It’s the new thing, apparently. Check out Jane’s Block Party posts yesterday for the details. I’m scared of it too. But many have gone into the light of it.
Suzanne @ 174
reset it just now. bug seems to have vanished. may have been my system, it occaionally trys to become self aware and act randomly. I have a large stick I beat it with during those incidents. So far, I’m winning…
…but, but, but…what IS it?
You gotta do it TSF. You are a front pager – you have to set an example now. Lead us into Facebook, Teddy.
spidey, it is another way for us firepups to stay in touch. a social network if you will but without the spam and crap over at myspace.
Bob, AK, and c’ape — many thanx for your thoughts on this. We must start to define how we want things to look if we intend them to look the way we want.
And now, I’m to bed. G’nite pups, looking forward to Sunday nites with y’all. What a buncha thinkers we have hereabouts!
Just discovered that instead of turning over the “cleared areas” to the Iraqi National Gaurd (the supposed Bush surge plan) the Pentagon has admitted that this is a “no go” plan. Now they are turning over the areas to local Sunni clan leaders, and arming them with the same weapons and equipment that they gave the ING.
The Pentagon officer in charge of this new strategy said…”Well they hate us as occupiers, but they hate al Qaeda and the Shiites MORE.” So we can expect a bunch of compartmentalized warlords fighting it out with the US and the central gov’t down the road…using our weapons.
Suzanne @ 179
It allows for dating, but doesn’t seem utterly devoted to it the way myspace does (FWIW, IMHO, YMMV, IANOMS)
cinnamonape @ 171
Give that man a Moosehead !!! *g*
g’nite teddy. sleep well and thanks for your wonderful posts tonight. they were great and not at all “silly”. dood doesn’t know snark :)
TeddySanFran @ 180
With you in the lead, TSF! Don’t forget that part! sleep well!
…my god, what an outrage…next you’ll be jumping into the pool with nothing on…Teddy, don’t do it, I’m with you
Suzanne @ 178
Waaaahhhhh kicking and screaming…why…why…what is it?? Where is it??? Why isn’t here good enough???? Whhhaaaaa??? I’m chicken myself…it means I’m old enough to think that: I did just fine without a cell phone my whole life (still don’t have one, and don’t want one), email, fax, computer, etc., why should I join Facebook? Convince me!!!
TeddySanFran @ 180
G’nite TSF … did you mean “… buncha stinkers …” ? *g*
Don’t Forget Albania! (Now that Poland has dropped out of the Grand and Glorious Coalition). 76 Forces still in Iraq! AND they’re Muzzies!
And why is it that Bush will go to some “Tomb of the Unknown Romanian Soldier” but won’t even go near a real funeral of soldiers and Marines KIA in Iraq?
Does this have something to do with thanking them for the “secret CIA prisons”?
what was it that c’ape c’awed? :~)
spiderpaws @ 185
Head whipping around – naked in a pool? Where? Did I miss some excitement again? dayam, I always miss all the good stuff.
cinnamonape @ 189
He’d have to know their names if it were not an unknown.
spiderpaws @ 186
um … if Facebook was as much fun as skinny dipping, people wouldn’t need my meditation classes !!!
… I’m just saying … *g*
cinnamonape @ 181
But not HEAVY WEAPONS. no artillery, no copters, no air support, no high tech. in short, just enough to create perpetual unrest and a powerless central government. this in turn guarantees a reason to keep the troops there, and allows us to disregard the wishes of any given “government” by claiming it isn’t legitimate because it doesn’t control its territory. The more things change, the more they stay the same…
Suzanne @ 191
Ah hah … you said “Whip” … caught you … *g*
Suzanne @ 179
Will the manner in which I joined, allow me to meet Y’all??? If I must prostrate myself again, I will, but only with you doing the prostrating!!! *g*
CTuttle @ 173
Yes, and they might be looking for a new board member … one whose name doesn’t rhyme with tush !!! *g*
LS @ 187
when fdl died today, we managed to keep in touch via the facebook email system. rmember, most of us don’t know each other’s email addy, for obvious and quite appropriate security reasons. but if the site suddenly dies, it is nice to have a backup. just my .02 (and it is important to note two things. One, your password in FB can and SHOULD BE unique to it. Second, you DON’T have to give them a real name, a real address, anything. all they actually require is a working email address.)
spiderpaws @ 186
what? dang. just took my contacts out *fumbles for glasses, peers around*
CT, if you put your handle in your name, we can. Especially if you join the “Firedoglake” network.
I am frustrated with all these strange names, and not familiar handles.
But I am getting lots of compliments on my adorable doggy.
anyone know anything about old rare books? I went to the funkiest estate sale and bought a bunch of first editions…one was published in 1927 called How Music is Made with a forward by John Philip Sousa, then another is the actual play of Ten Little Indians by Agatha Christie and it says Program of the First Performance of Ten Little Indians as produced at the Broadhurst Theatre, New York, June 27, 1944. It has little notes in the margin and Vera’s part is underlined in Pink! Plus others too numerous to mention…paid 50 cents each for them.
cinnamonape @ 171
Hey, that’s a buck!!! I’ll take’em off your hands!!! ;-)
Alfred Kelgarries @ 194
Well, there was a great change when Dubya appointed a War
CaesarCzar !!! /sspiderpaws – old books – check eBay. my mom sells old books on eBay for the local Friends of the Library, and sometimes the most obscure titles attract great interest.
I wish I had a pool. It would be that deep blue/grey blue. It would have lots of overhanging palms that rustle in the wind. It would have large boulders to lie on around it. It would have an external water fall feature that made a constant soothing sound. There would be a really comfortable place to BBQ and eat.
When I was a kid, my favorite sound was the sound of water making the sound of skvulp, skvulp, skvulp as it skvulped against the rocks of the shore. I think that if I could hear that sound at night, I would fall out instantly every night.
spiderpaws @ 201
search the web for possible similar items on ebay or other sites. art evaluators are usually ripoff artists. See this link for some of the pitfalls. I’m currently trying to find an evaluator from some painted kama sutra ivories my boss brought back from his last trip to pakistan…
spidey, sounds like you may have some nice items there. i know nothing about old items but there is a wealth of learned people here at the lake.
Petrocelli, did I say I liked it? Or that I used it? No, it was used as a verb, not a preference.
punaise…but how does one sell them and put prices and know if there is great interest? and what about Craigslist?
Jacqrat @ 200
As I had inferred earlier, my abode needs much work!!! I shall endeavor to Do-It-Myself!!! However, this Luddite shall make do!!!
spiderpaws @ 205
the sounds of silence, spidey?
LS @ 205
My fav sound as a kid was rain on a tin roof … best sleep evuh !!!
LS @ 205
LS @ 204
That sounds so wonderful. I fall asleep every night, listening to the creek babbling. Second best sound in the world – first being the ocean as described by you. That sound instantly relaxes.
spiderpaws @ 209
first, check for similar titles to gauge the market. other than that, I guess you’d have to establish an eBAy account, post the offerings (description, photo of title page and cover), and see what the market says. not sure how effective craigslist would be.
…according to the list of cast the woman who plays Vera is someone called Claudia Morgan…anyone around here going to plays in 1944? Heh
Suzanne @ 211
LOL !!!
You beat me to it, Suz !!! *g*
How can anyone have respect for a paper that retains journalists like Broder, Novak, Krauthammer, Hiatt, etc., who week after week make absured and provably false claims, e.g.:
* “Valerie Plame wasn’t covert.”
* “There was no underlying crime.”
* “George W. Bush is a fearless and charismatic leader.”
* and other variants on “Black is white.”
The people who retain those prevaricators are as devoid of integrity as was Kenneth Lay.
So, what to do? Pretty much what we are already doing, but keep pushing it into audio and video over the Internet (which tends to neutralize the other side,s monetary advantage). It doesn’t take a lot of clueful people to have a very big impact on public opinion.
spiderpaws @ 201
Best thing to do is to go to the rare book section of Amazon.com, and put the details of your books in, as if you’re looking for that very book. First, you’ll get an idea of how rare it is– if this service doesn’t have it listed, then it really is a rare book! Next, if they do list it, you’ll be able to see how much used book sellers are selling that title for, and you can compare the condition of your book to what they have listed.
Bob in HI
…actually Suzanne, I sent a wave to Jacqrat but it mysteriously disappeared right off
spidey, you can take them to an auction house and they will assist you with appraisal. many of them do so nowadays – what is that famous one in the city – butterfield and butterfield? am trying to remember. my mom took a tapestry in she found at a junk store years before and found out it was a common item. no charge iirc.
LS @ 205
Nice image LS. Water sounds are a great lullaby.
…thanks for the tips everyone
Claudia Morgan
spidey – did you use < instead of * or ( on your wave to jacqrat? if you use both the front and back carrot thing, the system will think it is code</p>
Bob @ 219
Do they have a section on ivories? about 100 to 200 years old?
Suzanne @ 214
Then there is the delight and imperial perfect relaxation if someone will rub your feet. That releases anything that causes you insomnia. If you don’t have a person, you can rub your feet on something very texturized – it works.
wigwam @ 218
Whew, Wigwam, you’re busy as a Beaver!!! Awesome!!! :-O
Xanadu on Broadway. Seriously.
Re. Facebook … I have to say that I’ve never been poked by so many strangers since Rajneesh’s ashram !!! *g*
LS oh cool sheets are another must to melt into sleep.
Bob in HI: I went to your link and they had nothing for the Christie play…but here’s something…upon furthur reading of the front pages of this little tome, I see where it says published by Samuel French in Great Briton under the name “Ten Little N——” Whoa….
LS @ 205
My favorite is places where there is a moving stream. One of my favorites was a Bed & Breakfast place in central Arizona that Firepups might like, called the Red Setter Inn. They have a nicely landscaped back yard, through which a branch of the Little Colorado flows, making restful babbling brook noises.
The other place is Pecos Benedictine Monastery in Pecos, NM. They have a nice big back yard, and the property goes down to the Pecos river, which is about 20 feet wide but only a foot or two deep. It also makes quite nice mountain stream noises.
However, streams have moods, depending on the water supply. If it has been raining a lot in the headlands, they sound rushing and noisy. If it hasn’t been raining so much, they sound relaxed.
Same with ocean beaches. Honolulu is on Oahu Island, and our North Shore is quite different from Waikiki beach. Waikiki is placid, with lapping waves (except out further, where the reefs are.) The waves at Waikiki sound relaxed and soothing. North Shore, however, is windier, and the waves sound more powerful and agitated– almost angry– and quite relentless. That’s because of the reefs– but I’m mainly thinking of the western end of the North Shore, which is where I’ve spent the most time.
Bob in HI
Petrocelli @ 212
Here in the Aina, it works like a charm, alongside the surf’s steady surge!!! I was surprised to see my religious affiliation listed within FaceBook, the Baha’i Faith!!! I felt pretty comfortable after that!!!
oh my god, jacqrat, there it is! the ten little indians play that Claudia did, I’ll be damned
and yes I did use those two pointy things to frame the wave.
spiderpaws @ 232
That was the original title !!!
TRex was able to put his TRex name in a highlight under his other name in Facebook.
Petrocelli @ 212
Oh yes! Early morning rain in the summer in Wisconsin. As a teen, I slept in longest on those mornings. Delicious!
Bob in HI
spiderpaws @ 232
THAT’s worth money. you might want to look in on the many Christie fan groups in US and UK. many have connections to wealthy christie collectors (I know because my wife was a devoted christie fan…)
Petrocelli @ 230
C’mon, I know you would enjoy their Bedding, you would relish the spikes!!! *g*
Alfred Kelgarries @ 226
Don’t know.
Bob in HI
CTuttle @ 234
Sob Sob … you’re a lost lamb … the only true religion is Hockey !!! *g*
Have you ever been to their temple in India?
Petrocelli…you were at the Rajneeshi ashram?????????????
CTuttle @ 234
Interesting religion. I have not heard of that one before.
Bob Schacht @ 238
I also love the sound of rain on a tent. Sometimes when I’m in my car and it is raining, I can remember the exact sound of camping with the sound of rain on the canvas…so I sit in my car a little longer to relish the sound.
CTuttle @ 240
… a little joke for those of us old enough to remember the “free love” at his ashram … *g*
Alfred…where do I find these so-called fan groups of Christies?…I so want to make some $$ esp after I spent too much at this sale to begin with.
I joined up at FB. I’m just glad it isn’t Myspace. That place is way too cluttered.
Petrocelli @ 242
Aah, I’ve never been to the Sub-Indian continent, I’m not sure it’s Fortunate, or Not!!! At least, not while in uniform!!! *g*
…they talked like that in the forties, eh?
yeap, spidey, they sure did. :(
spiderpaws @ 247
try http://www.google.com/url?sa=t…..oRVk4NACOg
spiderpaws @ 243
No spiderpaws, although I have visited the one in Pune … no touching involved !!!
I heard about his ashram in Oregon … on 60 minutes I think and the American pastors were incensed at the “free s*x” on display at his ashram.
Well, 30 years later, “sw*ngers” has millions of members … Osho must be laughing heartily, wherever he is … *g*
you wouldn’t believe all the wierd stuff I bought there in this little old house where an ancient lady named Wanda had lived. A paint by numbers painting for one thing, and a fifties lamp…too wierd (do I like 50’s stuff? No!)
CTuttle @ 249
They have a very impressive temple … although as a practical guy, I would think using the $$$ spent to build it on feeding the poor and hungry would be a more effectful use of the funds, but I don’t have my own religion … *g*
…can’t imagine Rajneesh compound where they didn’t touch…you sure?
spiderpaws @ 254
I **LIKE** 50’s stuff! can you give details? where do you live geographically, btw?
I knew the guy who made LSD there in Oregon, he is still in custody (ahem)
spiderpaws @ 256
We were on the 5 cent tour, so maybe that’s why !!! *g*
cool picture on the live Whittier Alaska webcam right now (it updates every 5 minutes). To any of you who are unfamiliar with how light it is up here a couple of weeks or less before summer solstice, it might give you a bit of an idea. I had the site on today because ET, Jr. was down there sailing this weekend:
http://whittierak.yukontel.com/
spiderpaws @ 258
Did he make LSD in the ashram?
tw3k @ 244
Ecumenical faith is the foundation, it’s not a Religion it’s a Faith!!! Who’s to say Krishna was wrong, how about Buddha??? Monotheism is the crux, God promised David; Man would not despair…!!!
I love garage/yard sales. Don’t you think there is something about this that has the same feeling? I always think I’m about to find “the” long lost missing thing of value or piece of information, any minute that will make everything in the world alright.
spiderpaws, THESE are the guys you need to contact about the christie play and other stuff. they are top flight, don’t rip people off, and are the leaders in that sort of thing.
http://www.christies.com/clien…..boutAE.asp
…the sale is over Alfred but they did have a fifties table with the yellow top and chrome around it ($20.)… I would have gotten it but I had already spent too much. The lamp is tall with wooden rings separated with some gold in between on a small wooden pedestal…no shade and mr paws says it needs a new cord but it is rather handsome…ya want it?
spiderpaws @ 265
maybe. any way to get a digital pix of it first? and how much you askin?
CTuttle @ 262
Members of the Baha’i faith have done a lot of charitable work around the world.
My fav thing about India is how all faiths are respected. You’ll find peoples of all faiths visiting the holy shrines of other faiths …
… truly remarkable land …
So Lieberman is pushing for the Iran War?
Honestly how did Gore get stuck with Lieberman in 2000? What I want to know is who decided that Gore Lieberman were to be on the same ticket?
Two questions on the facebook thing:
1) I tried to find the firedoglake group yesterday and couldn’t. Any help?
2) I only posted one photo on mine, but noticed some people have videos, and didn’t see any sound files. Can we post sound files on facebook pages?
Oh muy gawsh ET, it really is light up there at almost midnight AK time and it is dark as dark can be here.
CTuttle @ 262
Most people do not realize that Hinduism is a monotheistic religion … but that’s probably a subject for another night.
G’nite all !!!
Weren’t/aren’t some of the Beach Boys into the Baja’i faith?
et, if you go over to my facebook page and click on groups (lower left side) it will bring up the two groups i belong to. click on the firedoglake one. when you are on the group page, there is a click to join this group.
cancer_cures @ 268
Yeah, it is real sweet. He basically announced today that he thought the U.S. should attack Iran. What is wrong with these people?
Alfred: I’ll take a pic of it tomorrow (since I am now late for my midnight snack) and then I’ll attempt to get it over to you…where? thanks for the links … I have no idea what it’s worth and in good conscience could not charge you more than I paid for it.
g’nite Petrocelli.
CTuttle @ 262
I listed my faith as non-Christian Unitarian. But this viewpoint has me hooked:
the Kybalion
Petrocelli @ 271
G’nite, Hombre!!!
Suzanne @ 270
I’m outside, keyboarding away without artificial light. It is three minutes before midnight.
tw3k,
I confirmed you as a friend. Don’t get all whacked but I said we hooked up in 1974. I love that option – hooked up (add your own adjective!) -
so I have been using it liberally with fdl people who request friendship. So far I’ve hooked up with Howie and Siun…
CTuttle @ 262
Fascinating. I’ve never been in a religion or faith so, frankly, they all confuse the hell outta me. I always thought it’d be interesting to take a look at the point where Monotheism over took Polytheism. Didn’t christians, jews and muslims brach out from the same root?
spiderpaws @ 275
okay. pay special attention to the last link I sent, it’s the one you MUST use for the play. trust me on this if nothing else :). send pic to a*l*f*r*e*d*k*e*l*g*a*r*r*i*e*s*@g*m*a*i*l*.*c*o*m only without the stars! tell me what you paid and i’ll see if my cringing checkbook can afford it! :) enjoy the snack and see you tomorrow!
dang, et. i guess ya get used to it – that and limited daylight in the winter.
cancer_cures @ 268
Must have been some DLC no-brainer.
tw3k @ 284
IIRC it was because of LIEberman’s “faith” to counter dubya and the fundies. Another DLC winning strategy brought to you by the George Armstrong Custer Political Consulting Firm.
tw3k @ 284
Bob Shrum?
Dangerstein?
Suzanne @ 287
…sucks?
tw3k @ 281
You’re right!!! Check this out: http://www.bahai.org/about
I rarely comment on topic at lln-fdl, but we don’t know what the next communication/journalism/news paradigm will be. People seldom do. If we did, capitalism wouldn’t be nearly so popular with the people who spend billions every year buying our democracy so that they can make thousands of billions.
The interactive nature of the web was obvious early on. Graphics brought it into the sphere of commercial viability. But the nature of the web changes even faster than new applications show up to deal with the new social and sociological demands of users. Similarly, monied interests continually attempt to channel the possibilities in their direction all over the world. But the vertical nature of corporations and governments inevitably keeps them too far behind the curve to catch up, let alone take control.
The new paradigm will be along the lines of what this contest between fdl and other blogs is attempting, only better.
Alfred …til then…will have to send pics to the Christies link. First you should look at the lamp and see if you really like it…don’t worry I didn’t pay much!!! It was the fact that I loaded up my truck with stuff that caused the trouble. You think I might really get money for this Christie play? wow
spiderpaws @ 291
Remember IANAAA (I am not an art appraiser) but my wife knew a lady in cleveland who somehow got her hands on a similar copy of another christie play and made a nice bundle out of it by going to christies and auctioning it. she retired on the results, although she was close to retirement anyway. BE SURE YOU HAVE A RECEIPT AND IF YOU DON”T GO GET ONE NOW! That is ESSENTIAL!
Jacqrat @ 280
My biggest problem is with people who use a different handle here than on Facebook.
Bob in HI
We know that, jacqrat (grin) – I was suggesting him for the creation of the Gore/lie-erman ticket.
CTuttle @ 289
So does that make bahai the root or an inverted tree?
AK,
I thought your comment at #9 was slow on how fast the pace of change will be. The main determining factor for survivability of newspapers, for instance, will be whether or not their web presence ad income can pay for their losses at the newsstand. That crush comes within the next three years, IMHO.
any help on my #269?
Ed*ard Teller @ 290
I agree! Did you ever read, the now historical, being digital. I was a good then; I should probably reread it again.
Ed*ard Teller @ 296
yes, but most newspapers are owned by media conglomerates who may be slow to drop even losing ones because of their need to control that “information space” of readers who don’t do the web. so the changeover will come about IMHO when ALL the cash feed to the MSM owning entities start to dry up as advertisers go where the results are. Feel free to prove me wrong, i’m making this up as i go…:)
Ed*ard Teller @ 297
try this linky!
Ed*ard Teller @ 269
firedoglake group
Click join group under the picture on the right.
I’m not sure about that one. Maybe start by adding a photo album.
ET, did you not see my 272 in response to your 269?
I see others provided the link. I’m getting tired now, think I’ll go to bed.
g’nite all
Suzanne @ 303
nite suzanne! see you tomorrow!
tw3k @ 298
I almost got that book once. I should order it on inter-library loan, eh? Another one I’D like to re-read is the original Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution, from 1984. It came out just before Macs, and goes from early computer rebels in the 1940s, through the phone phreax, and the beginnings of PCs.
ET @305
Phone Phreaks. My Ghod, it has been so long I’d almost forgotten.
Wiki entry
Ed*ard Teller @ 305
Hah! Excellent, I need to read that one :)
For those interested in the Bandar bribe scandal, here’s an interesting linky!
tw3k @ 295
Interesting question, we look upon ourselves as attaining a higher knowledge of ‘God’, in that we don’t draw distinctions, between the major faiths, they were all right, each one nudged our collective knowledge forward!!! How can one argue, when one’s own faith is fully embraced by another, earlier and/or later one, the later usually further expands upon the earlier???
You don’t think that this Holy Joe led push by the Main Stream Media on war with Iran is designed to build popular support for a war with Iran in America? Could Bush still be thinking his poll numbers are going to see 50% again and that once his poll numbers reach a safe place then he can invade?
Suzanne @ 303
Aargh, you snuck out the backdoor, Nite, Ma Cheri!!!
Ed, IRT the video post. You just have to figure out how to post an item. Left nav, under Marketplace, click more, Posted Items, then on right is post item.
CTuttle @ 309
Now I can dig that. I’ve been a practicing bahai-ian without every subscribing or even knowing about it!
things come undone @ 310
Or worse; he’d think the bombing would raise his polls to 50%
tw3k @ 312
I note it is not actually an upload, but a link. If the content you want to share isn’t already online you have to get it there before the post will work, IIUC…
tw3k,
That is fantastic!. I went through the whole facebook of fdl people. You folks are so honest, so upbeat – I don’t know where to begin. Next thing is combining that and things like Howie’s BlueAmerica video interactive sessions.
I’d like to see littlegreenfootball’s facebook. I have a hunch the differences might be very telling…
CTuttle @ 309
You must be part of my karass.
things come undone @ 310
Of course they hope to build popular support. But I think that at least what they’re looking for is “cover”: When Bonsai decides to invade, he can claim “bipartisan support” thanks to Turncoat Joe.
OK, now I’m off to slumber land.
Be good, y’all.
Bob in HI
tw3k @ 313
You can check out local communities within your area, they would bend over backwards to chitchat with you!!! I’ve been welcomed in many of communities I’ve lived in/visited, coolest individuals I’ve met in each locale!!! Bar none, and I’ve literally been around the world!!! *g*
Bob Schacht @ 318
sleep well bob. see you tomorrow.
tw3k @ 314
Thats what I thought he would do I wonder what Rove’s polling on the question of invading Iran will tell him in a few weeks? If Americans REALLY believe he is serious I would expect his poll numbers to go down. Not that I think that would stop him he would just manufacture an incident to excuse it then. By the way on face book what group do we join I couldn’t find firedoglake listed?
Ed*ard Teller @ 316
FDL is an illustrative community. It is great to see it expand into social netowrking, I never really liked the idea before, and mashup with stuff like YouTube and Howie’s BlueAmerica.
Screw Andrea Mitchell, when does WOLF BLITZER yield to Marcy Wheeler, that’s what I wanna know. Wheeler should have her own damned show, not those spineless ballerinas.
Harumpf.
Ed*ard Teller @ 316
Or scary!
Alfred Kelgarries @ 315
Yeah, I only tried a YouTube, and the photo alubums are jpg, png, gif sorta thing.
things come undone @ 324
Brain Bleach, Stat!!! ;-)
things come undone @ 321
FDL Group
tw3k @ 327
Thanks I’m going to try now bye!
squiddy @ 323
:)
CTuttle @ 319
You can check out local communities within your area, they would bend over backwards to chitchat with you!!! I’ve been welcomed in many of communities I’ve lived in/visited, coolest individuals I’ve met in each locale!!! Bar none, and I’ve literally been around the world!!! *g*
I’ll keep that in mind :)
And now, I must go back to earning a living (for my absurdly expensive granddaughter, that is! :))
g’nite, all. see you tomorrow evening!
Wolf – On a show of hands, who thinks war is good.
Honestly. Damn.
It could be worse. Meanwhile, the republicans get to say how their plan of nuclear assault on Iran is better than all the other candidates.
When I teach Music Appreciation, after the kids learn about sound, instruments, form and such, I take them from 450 AD to today. As almost all the music for the first part of the historical survey is religious, I have to think about how different our world would be had the religious currents also been different. When I get to the Renaissance and the Baroque, there is no way to not get some student upset if I describe the cultural situation fairly. The main example, which always tweaks somebody, is when I explain how the Lutheran church cantata evolved. Some Catholic student always over reacts to my explanation of the difference between congregation participation in a rite vs. the Catholic paradigm at that time.
I regard religious structures as cultural more than they are spiritual.
I think that it will not take too long for “broadcast” to die. It never was much to write home about. There will be live pictures, news events and sports events that deserve live coverage, but most of TV would be much better in a big searchable database. It will take a while to sort out the economics, but subscription models — $25 for a year of the Daily Show? — and others will be tried out. TV and radio need to catch up with iTunes: what do you want to watch tomorrow? Okay, the basketball game, the News, your Daily Show sub, and so on. Put them on YOUR schedule. If you can’t watch everything today, save it in the archives and watch it next week, or cancel it.
And imagine making up your fifteen minutes to three hours to 24 hours of news schedule every day. Your community, your metro area, your state, the US, etc. You put it together, and you choose it from a list. And you can put “no celebrity stories,” so you can blow E-Entertainment off completely.
In other words, the web, only the pictures are better and there’s no delay.
Jim H.
EXCELLENT! Even now few will find Democracy Now in the clutter, but it is there, and tomorrow somebody will come up with something even better, more immediate and resonating. It is hard to find, even with max cable or sat and tivo, but on the web you or I can download it 30 seconds after it plays live or 30 months.
Ed*ard Teller @ 333
I agree. Currently, to me, religion seems even more political than cultural. That is why I am zealous about my non-religious status. My religious education is from art history and with no religious background a lot of the symbolism and stories escape me.
Great story tho. Sounds like you really engage our students.
I regard politics, like religion, as a subset of culture. I took so long writing a reply to the religious thoughts upstairs, I thought my comment would be forgetable. Thanks.
Ed,
Check out this “I want national wireless Internet!” FB Group.
Ed*ard Teller @ 337
You make a good point. I started to hesitate when writing “more political than cultural” because it didn’t sound right.
tw3k,
Where did you do this? Is it on wood? If so, is there a knot right in the middle of the central blue stuff?
Pretty cool.
Ed*ard Teller @ 333
I agree with that, ET. In order to understand a lot of the anime i watch? I’ve been explcoring a lot of asian culture and history. The biggest thing has been exploring the main religions over there in japan. Which are buddhism and shinto. Christianity is seen rather amusiedly from what i’ve seen. With Christian weddings as a big, expensive fad. It amuses me to see that happening when we have the fundies over there. To understand the society, i explore their myths, which is all over their tv shows in many interesting and sneaky ways.
I’m downright fascinated with buddhism’s forms over in asia in general and wish there were some easier ways to see shinto aside from going to japan itself. (which i’ll only be able to afford in another lifetime, with the cruddy wages i make.)
Ed*ard Teller @ 340
Thanks Ed! I worked on an organic farm in south central PA last summer. Most of the paintings I did where on scraps from the barn when it was renovated. So, really great chunks of well seasoned wood. Yes, the knots and grains where great fun to work with.
Ed*ard Teller @ 333
Historically and practically, they are constructs vs spirituality, that is, it is an individually expressed and/or felt feeling that realizes their religiosity!!! It is the constructs of each religion that typify that religion!!!
aliasofwestgate,
Ah, Japan! I’m tempted to pass on that set of cultures tonight ({Suzanne gags}), but I adore simplicity, and Japanese Buddhist and Shinto culture sometimes does that better than any existing cultural urge toward spirituality.
good morning? Anyone here and have to work today?
CTuttle @ 343
Historically and practically, they are constructs vs spirituality, that is, it is an individually expressed and/or felt feeling that realizes their religiosity!!! It is the constructs of each religion that typify that religion!!!
This is true. What I meant is that religions express, reflect and modify collective structures. Individuals approach the idea of a supreme intelligence one person at a time. More advances in understanding what we don’t know tend to be made by individuals fighting those collective structures than are made by those working from within. Spinoza is my favorite example I’m beginning to re-examine.
Ed*ard Teller @ 344
Shintoism, is a Polytheistic faith, it has been grafted onto the main stalk of Buddhism, a Monotheistic faith! It, as a viable faith alone, is not accepted anywhere, particularly in Japan, it has morphed with Buddhism!!!
Ed*ard Teller @ 344
Yes they do. I’m also fond of Zen Buddhism’s rather brutal sense of humor. It has its place even today, in this lightning fast and crazy world. You wouldn’t believe how often aspects are used for it as comedy standards over there. *grins*
CTuttle,
You’re using a lot of exclamation points. We’re not far off. Did I say something?
Ed*ard Teller @ 346
Spinoza is interesting. Which is your favorite example?
For what it’s worth ed*ared and aliasofwestgate, the Japanese sensibility (Buddhist ideas, Shinto images) are now reaching American culture through its’ children. My kids are fascinated by aname (Japanese cartoons)…There are various ideas (see
Dragon Ball series or Naruto for ‘Zen Buddhism’s rather brutal sense of humor’. In the Dragon Ball series, the hero Goku runs through
the Buddhist underworld (Death, Lord Yama, is just a businessman)..
The imagery and ideas of the Japanese have great currency among the young in this country.
aliasofwestgate @ 348
I’ve always held Buddhism’s in high regard tho I’ve studied it very little.
Ed*ard Teller @ 346
I agree, the constraints dictated from on high, usually need to poked and prodded to find new sources of enlightenment, the status quo, stifles thought and enlightenment!!!
MR. Bill @ 351
I’m well aware of both of those shows, Mr Bill. I tend not to like Dragon Ball, and Naruto was amusing until it turned entirely into filler. My favorite is Saiyuki, and Saiyuki: Reload.
The manga form of that particular series is still running, but the whole thing is a retelling of all of asia’s favorite story. Journey to the West. DragonBall was also a version of it, but Saiyuki stays a bit more faithful to the original set of stories with some alteration and a LOT of other mythology tied in, in very subtle ways. The lady author is a mistress of the subplot. Possibly my favorite set of manga, with ties to all forms of buddhism all over it and incredible character dynamics.
Ed*ard Teller @ 349
Oops, I’m rather verbose, if you hadn’t noticed already! *g*
heh FDL == buddha
In Buddhism, any person who has awakened from the “sleep of ignorance” (by directly realizing the true nature of reality), without instruction, and teaches it to others is called a buddha.
tw3k @ 356
Our Group mind may be Enlightened but I need work.
aliasofwestgate @ 354
There was a great one on Turner Classic Movies awhile back. It was about raccoons that could take the form of humans.
Well, when I watched Dragon BAll with my son (then
10 or so) I tried to get some explanation of Buddhism into it. He’s reading Alan Watts and Lady Murisaki on his own at age 16…
things come undone @ 357
me too :)
tw3k @ 358
I’m betting that was a Miyazaki film. My guess is it was Pompoco. I havent’ seen that one. Although it’s likely not raccoons so much as tanuki. *grins* TCM scooped those up years ago when they realized Miyazaki’s filmmaking was on par with Kurasawa’s. I’m glad they did, because he’s another one of those priceless storytellers. I’m glad his films have such a wide audience now.
tw3k @ 356
As this Zen Monk who aspires to wisdom once told me, “The Buddha is more like a turnip than an onion….”
tw3k @ 360
Amen, Nobody’s perfect! I’ll be the first to step forward on that count! ;)
Aah, the bewitching hour here in the Aina, I must bid a fond adieu to the Lake! Aloha Oe!!!
aliasofwestgate @ 361
Ah, yea, right you are. But it think the movie might have been Princess Mononoke.
My dog, Bohdisattva (Bohdi for short) and I shall now walk to the coffee shop.
Ed*ard Teller @ 362
:)
There weren’t any tanuki in Princess Mononoke. That was wolves, boars, forest spirits and humanity encroaching on the wilderness. *grins* I know that movie intimately as it was my very first experience of Miyazaki’s gift. I later saw Spirited Away in theaters when it played limitedly. Worth EVERY penny.
There are a few other films with animals and humans working together in that way. Whisper of the Heart and its sequel The Cat Returns, Porco Rosso also had pigs as its main characters, i believe. I have yet to see all of the filmography, but its nice knowing they’re around to rent or buy. Particularly his older films, like Nazica:Vally of the Wind (i can’t remember the spelling outright)
The Group mind lets us connect to like minded people the next step is to expand that connection into concern for others which I see we are trying to do. The Right Wingers seem to use the group mind to attract and link up an ingroup against others in the outgroup. I think Righty blogs that allow comments are the future for them. Even though the Authoratarian streak resists giving up control, what their group mind comes up with once a free comments policy takes off is likly to be scary. Their Negative energy is likly to feed and amplify itself amoung their readers in isolation. Without a check of reality or an opposing view they will take their ideas further and improve them just as we build on and improve each other through reading each others comments. Only are concern for others saves us from the nightmares that they will create in the future. We should as a group pick a topic and offer to debate a Righty blog and their members to end their isolation. How such a debate could work and who would moderate are beyound me at the moment. But I don’t think we would need a judge both sides would benefit from hearing the others arguments plus it would end their isolation and work to prevent the danger of the extremes that could tear apart the country.
aliasofwestgate @ 368
Yeah, I’m really drawing a blank on the one I saw. I vaguely recall the plot being about the tanuki fighting to save thier environment from industrial encroachment. I’d like to see it again and the rest of Miyazaki’s filmography.
I’ll rephrase something I’ve said here before:
firedoglake is to the third eye what Rush Limbaugh is to the lizard brain.
Good morning, pups. It’s Cohen, Kristof and Krugman in the NYT today.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
I’m running so late I’ve barely had time to grab the Thomas’ English muffins out of the toaster, but there they are, next to the coffee and tea. Help yourselves. I’ve got to dash around like a mad thing and get ready for work. Have a good Monday.
things come undone @ 369
Good idea and a lot to say about that topic. Didn’t kos and redstate hookup last year in support of free speech for blogs?
Morning all. Today’s the toothless no-confidence vote. Though without consequences, I look forward to the vote and will be curious to see how Hojo votes. Especially if it’s close.
tw3k @ 373
Cooperation could work to if we could find another comon cause!
Oooh, it looks like the ’submit comment’ kink has been worked out.
Mornin’ all!
Solai – it worked fine for me too. yay!
Daily ‘Last Throes’ Report:
3 U.S. troops killed in Iraq car bombing
Good morning pups!
good morning egregious!
Good news everyone. Maybe it’s old news, I was totally away from any news yesterday. Anyway, we can all relax. CNN is reporting that we’ve got a new strategy in Iraq. We’re considering arming the Sunnis now in the hopes that they’ll ONLY use the weapons to kill Al Quada and not us. Sounds like a good plan. I mean, really, what could go wrong????
p.s.: This is what happens when you fire everyone in the military who disagrees with you.
We must never, never, elect another George
Bush again….
http://www.salon.com/opinion/f…../11/doubt/
Marion in Savannah
Krugman seems to have identified a major Main Stream Media bias how come all their guys are “authentic” real Americans and no Democrats are EVER? Just what does a Democrat have to do to make the MSM think he or she is authentic besides become a Republican? How come Tweety only seems to get Man Crushes on Republicans especialy “authentic ” ones is “authentic ” code?
twolf1 @ 379
It seems more and more likely that the military experts reporting here are right. We are going to have to fight our way out.
Andrea Mitchell telling Imus Lite’n’Flat this morning that poor, poor Colin Powell feels just terrible about Iraq…
Well cry me a river, Andrea. Colin.
Tell it to the families who have only a grave to visit now. To the soldiers coping with missing limbs, burned bodies, brains awash with depression.
And he’s talking with Barack Obama. Make of that what you will.
solai @ 382
So our plan is to piss off the biggest group in Iraq the Shia and drive them into the arms of Iran? Which is what will happen after a few Shia get killed by Sunni with American guns and not the AK 47s everyone else in Iraq has. Choosing sides in a Civil war is a great way to show we are impartial. This move has the potential to make things much worst. I can’t believe Bush fell for the line about them helping us against Al Quieda.
solai
yep
the time to ‘gracefully redeploy’ is past
not that you will find a single presidential candidate to state the truth
if the military has returned to some semblance of SOP, there will be contingency planning
note: not every contingency is actually a plan
it’d be fun to see a really snarky “authentic” politcal ad.
Think of the MSM as the Blue Pill and the BLOGS (et al) as the Red Pill. You choose!
Lou Costello @ 390
does the cool mercury effect come with it?
You go, Dan Rather! Tellin’ Morning Imus-Lite that the media has dumbed down and tarted up the news.
Decrying the putting of Paris Hilton on the front page while burying the world news…the celebritainment of journalism [my paraphrase].
And he’s not just talkin’ about Couric. Or television.
tw3k @ 391
No, but you learn to deal with Cognitive Dissonance much better.
Lou Costello @ 393
:)
We’ve let our soldiers down, says Rather. The fact that war news is buried inside papers is borderline criminal.
* Must go tell inforum dot com their Variety section has wayyy to much sucky celebritainment news. *
Oh mah gawd… Morning Joe is singin’ my song…
politicians making politically expedient decisions instead of protecting our soldiers [my paraphrase]…talking about the protective vehicles…foot-dragging….
Oh. Scheiss. Now I’ll have to tout this show. Who’d’a thunk it.
oooh, oooh!! Marcy’s quoted in the New York Times:
Marcy Wheeler, one of the bloggers who helped cover the trial for Firedoglake, said the argument concerning mockery indicated that the Libby legal team “may be frustrated by the amount of attention paid on this trial that otherwise wouldn’t have been paid.”
“If you want to dismiss transparency,” she said, “just talk about bloggers.”
I miss my friend the Preview button. *wink
Other Pat @ 396
Libby’s Supporters Who Wrote to Judge Learn That Letters Take on New Life on the Web
Dan Rather:
military stretched thin, has to be rebuilt. Desperate straits.
Cites historic precedent…we didn’t quit WW2 just because things were going badly in North Africa. We refocused and committed where battles were.
Rather: Saying we lose the GWOT if we strategically redeploy is just ridiculous.
Meanwhile politicians posture and the people let them.
Hey, Dan, c’mon over here…you’ll find good company.
1) The videos still have a problem
2) Suggestion to webmaster, make quotes smaller type face and/or limit number of lines quoted. There’s just so much repetition and so much space taken up to wade through.
3) Why do you have to give your birthday to get on Facebook?
Lou Costello @ 393
take two:
Drinking the Kool-Aid2 helps to prevent Cognitive Dissonance.
3) Why do you have to give your birthday to get on Facebook?
so it’s easier to block our dinosaur asses!
Brel1 @ 400
marketing?
In the Corporate State, corporate media are State Media.
what’s needed, of course, is a Constitutional amendment prohibiting (and rolling back) media concentration…
and that’s nagahapun…
if anything, media concentration will INCREASE…vide, Murdoch and the WSJ.
Scarecrow upstairs with a new thread…
Scarecrow’s morning get us thinkin’ in new thread!
“When does Andrea Mitchell give way to Marcy Wheeler? (about 6 months ago) What does it take for Murray Waas to replace David Gregory?”
(it has already happened, they just don’t realize it yet…!)