Dear Senator Reid,
This is just getting silly. Joe Lieberman (CFL-CT) is now publicly advocating for war with Iran.
When he appeared on Face the Nation this morning, do you suppose Dick Cheney’s lips even moved?
This would not be your problem except for the fact that people consider Lieberman a Democrat, thanks to the seniority he retains as the powerful Chairman of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. That you put him forward as the face of the Democratic Party by giving him the cherry assignment of responding on behalf of Democrats after George Bush’s speech (wherein he was allowed to paint himself as the hero of Walter Reed) didn’t help anything. I won’t even mention your comment during the debate on timetables to the effect that “there isn’t a senator I have more respect for than Joe Lieberman” because shortly thereafter Joe basically called you a traitor. I think we can all agree that this accrued more to your own personal shame than that of the party.
Anyway, we find ourselves in a position where you are sitting on a big pile of dry powder and it’s starting to look like a mountain of TNT that the Connecticut for Lieberman Senator is threatening to take a match to. I know that when Democrats recently voted to give George Bush everything he wanted and more for his pet war with absolutely no restrictions whatsoever this move was sold to us as a shrewd political ploy to give the Republicans ownership of the war. I guess this was supposed to drive Bush’s poll numbers into the shitter while the Democrats, coated with some sort of Teflon, could sit there and shrug “well, not my problem.”
Forget for a moment just how cynical this sounded even as the dead bodies continue to pile up — this collective amnesia with regard to the election of November 2006 is somewhat startling because most people noted at the time that the Democrats had been handed a majority expressly for the purpose of getting the country out of this quagmire. And sure enough, when the poll numbers were released subsequent to the supplemental vote, George Bush’s popularity didn’t suffer squat but the approval ratings of congressional Democrats dropped a whopping 10%.
Think about that. Ten per-cent. This would seem to constitute a problem.
The approval rating of Democrats is eroding rapidly, and pointing that out is not “doing Karl Rove’s bidding.” The failure of leadership you have demonstrated with regard to ending this war has the potential to damage the entire party. And the most public, most egregious example of this failure, the one that continues to engender public disgust, which threatens to destroy not only faith in the Democratic party but the belief that political solutions to our problems are even possible is the continued party reverence paid to the warmongering Joe Lieberman who is not even an elected Democrat.
As Markos said recently:
I WISH he’d bolt, but he won’t. He has more influence doing his periodic threats. I wish Reid would simply strip him of his committee assignments and bid him adieu.
I realize you’re dealing with all that Senate collegiality stuff which is completely meaningless to the rest of us and doubly so to all those who are, you know, dying in Iraq, but it’s time to remember what Democrats were elected to do in November and reclaim it from Dick Cheney’s marionettes. Every time Joe Lieberman opens his mouth he exacerbates tensions in the region and takes a sledgehammer to the Democratic brand. It’s time to exercise some leadership and send a message that Democrats are ready to stop being roundheels for the Bush administration.
Time to make a public example and say “enough” to being held hostage by Dick Cheney’s pet warmonger.
Cut. Him. Loose.
(video courtesy ctblogger)
Related posts:
- Rachel Maddow Redux: Dangers of Keeping Lieberman in Caucus (from November 2008)
- Joe Lieberman Hangs Veal Pen Out to Dry on the “Opt-Out” Sell-Out
- Lieberman on Point for Senate DADT Repeal
- Harry Reid: “Leave Lieberman Alone, I’ll Handle Him”
- Lieberman Says He’ll Filibuster Health Bill; What’s Obama Going to Do?





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Hey!
Jane!!!
How’s the contest against Stoller coming along?
I forgot to add, are you gonna call Reid’s office with this tomorrow? Can I have permission to call Reid’s office and use your letter when I tell whomever answers the phone, that HoJo must go?
Great etter to Reid Jane. Especially this part, (and since we have journalists in this country (and FOX) who purposely keep calling him a dem):
This would not be your problem except for the fact that people consider Lieberman a Democrat, thanks to the seniority he retains as the powerful Chairman of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.
Nah
Gah
Happen
RGJoe offers the DeeCee Democrats so much cover on the war and everything else (”see, we could accomplish so much if it wasn’t for bad old Joe!!”)
Besides, the 08 frontrunner’s guru, Mark Penn, is a Lieberman fan. So our best hope for getting rid of RGJoe might be a winning Clinton/Lieberman ticket next year. (This thought is for all of you who’ve wondered, “Could there be a Veep worse than Cheney?”)
Dear Senator Reid,
As a life-long Democrat – may I call you Harry? Harry as a life long Democrat, may I point something very truthful out to you. As I told myself a few days ago, it is in your PROFOUND best interests and the best interests of the whole Democratic Senate Caucus to do WHATEVER you can to avoid having Ms Jane Hamsher, Ms Christy Hardin Smith, and Ms Marcy Wheeler p*ss’d at you. This is a basic truth and lesson that it seems you and many others are going out of your way to avoid learning. More fool you for your failure.
zed
I prefer to wait until 2008 when we don’t need him anymore. Then we can kick him to the curb. I don’t want to lose the subpoena power in the Senate.
Jane,
I kind of wondered when you would bring up Joe’s latest drumbeat for war. The guy does have a way of being an idiot. Cheney is happy as is Richard Perle and others who haven’t let the debacle of Iraq derail their grand scheme.
The L-man is mentally ill. I just don’t know how else to put it.
Jane, I know you have had one eye on the old Gang of Fourteen members for a long time so I thought of you (and Hugh, a big fan of the ISG /snark) when I read this article today. It’s written by Arkansas own version of David Broder who can’t suck up to Sen. Mark Lieber-lovin’ Pryor enough.
Sure looks like the old gang members, though split up somewhat, are far from planning on supporting a pull-out in September (or ever).
Unfortunately no rumors of anyone stepping up to run against Pryor at this point in time.
Traitor
He keeps jabbering about “leaving it to the generals” wtf will he do if they decide it’s time to hang it up, call them traitors too?
He is pathetic.
Joe Lieberman needs a hobby. This is getting ridiculous. Oh – and by the way – don’t associate Powder Mountain (an incredible ski area) with “dry” Powder Mountain! Cheers!
Lieberman got Michael Ledeen endorsement to be Secretary of State.
So that tells you something about the level to which Joementum has sunk.
I’m shamelessly EPU’ing myself, because Lieberman/Deputy Dawg fits this somewhat – think of the catfish as Iraq:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmv9A2YirMQ
raven @ 12
No — W’s put admirals in charge. Of our military, engaged in a ground war in Asia.
I agree that Lieberman should be stripped of his chairmanship, for failure to do his job. Reid can’t use Iraq as the excuse, because the Dem candidates aren’t that far from Joe. Have any of the Dem candidates taken bombing Iran off the table? — “all options are open” is the Party’s position, as far as I can tell.
But’s RGJoe’s arranged his Committee’s seating Dem-GOP-Dem-GOP-Dem-GOP. Surely that counts for something?
Just an aside: Are the advisors to the Democratic Party paid better by the Democrats, or the Republicans. Anyone have the figures?
Joe Lieberman is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s BFF.
Saber rattling in the US is exactly what he wants and needs.
Heckuva job, Joey.
There is an arguement that pops up every-time the Dump Joe idea gets up some momentum. Supposedly, if Joe goes, the Dems lose their majority, and their chairs, and along with the chairs, the power of subpoena, for all the good it has done so far. The counter argument goes something like-there is an agreement made that preserves the chairmanships of the committees. Anyone know what the real story is on this?
Good post.
jim p @ 20
You know, I’ve been wondering about that. Do you think it works like realtors? The realtor is always working for the seller….and ultimately the realtor makes money from both parties…it is the sale that counts for their own personal profit.
Rob Zuber @ 8
OT, but did you write a letter to Walton?
allan_in_upstate @ 21
He’s incapable of “saber rattling”, it’s more like waving a wet noodle. He’s a traitor to the party, and I hope he goes away.
Lieberman is a psychopath.
this Lieberman is a real neo con…man, if he says it think the republicans it MUST be true since HE’S a democrat AND he’s agreeing with bush and cheney
I said it before…we need to get rid of this Judas sheep he does far more damage if we allow him to pretend he’s a democrat…we need him out of the party and Right quick
SAM Seder [spelling?] had a GREAT piece today on Lieberman
pointing out it is IMPOSSIBLE for Iran to be responsible for any al qaeda attacks they are sects that are diametrically opposed to each other
and Lieberman came up with statistics that are mind boggling in how false they are…things like “90 percent of the attacks are supplied by Iran”
we need to get rid of this guy as soon as we can
Scarecrow @ 18
At the MSNBC debate Gravel blasted all the other candidates for that position.
TeddySanFran @ 17
The Chair of the Joint Chief is an Admiral but I get yer snark!
Doesn’t Lieberman = Love Man????
Great post Jane. I wrote Harry Reid immediately after Face the Nation…
…there has been so much to be angry about lately, but Lieberman’s war posturing and malignant dishonesty has to stop.
The presidential candidates need to be mobilized to refute his remarks as well.
Imposter
perris @ 28
I wish Olberman would book him – then expose his phony facts.
Another outstanding post, Jane!!! I would quibble with Markos, in that, Reid can’t strip Hojo of his Chairmanship of Homeland Security if he does bolt!!! All the Senate Chairs are ‘Named’, irrespective of Partisan Affiliation, to remedy that, it would literally toss the Senate into a split Senate, with Cheney casting the decisive vote!!! Something we really need to be aware of folks!!! *g*
LS @ 31
no
it’s actually;
lie to man
lie= “lie”
ber= “to” somewhere or other but don’t expect a source or anything
man= “man”
see?
Patrick @ 31
Oh yea, that’s gonna happen, remember:
But Clinton said Lieberman had been a strong supporter of his own economic, environmental and energy policies. Both Clinton and his wife, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), have said they support Lieberman in the primary but will back the Democratic nominee in November’s general election.
raven @ 29
So is CENTCOM.
Upon what authority did Joe go on national Teevee this morning and literally threaten the sovereign nation of Iran?????!!!!
This is outrageous!!! He is not the Secretary of State, he is not the Secretary of Defense, and he is not the Presizent or the Vice Presdinezt.
This was orchestrated, planned, and the man should be banned from any interaction or access to the Democratic Party, post haste. He is a traitor, an imposter, and an infiltrator, and I would wage that he is reporting back to the neocons everything he learns when he is speaking with the Democratic leadership in private. This is serious. He is not a Democrat. Remove his access.
Bravo Jane!
What worries me – a lot – is that Lieberman carries the WH message and his statement today coupled with W’s appointment of Mueller as JCOS who is known as a “watcher of Iran” suggests that we are getting closer.
I seem to recall – very clearly in fact – that this time last year, Harry Reid playing progressive hero spoke at YKOS and promised – promised – that there would be no attack on Iran without congressional authorization. Funny how we haven’t heard a peep of that recently and the no war on Iran clause got pulled from the supplemental …
So Harry – ditch Lieberman and keep your promise to us on Iran! we have very long memories!
perris @ 36
LOL, I was being bad….;>.. DC and all, bribery, blackmail and all….I thought one says, Ich lieber dich! (or something like that)
Aggressive war is against the Geneva Conventions.
If we still care.
Joe needs exposure.
How much is a full page ad in the Wall Street Journal?
This is great, I get to be all pissed off for the end of Tony!
Raven 37, Maybe that is because he didn’t realize that Joe is a spy for someone. Is Hillary still letting him in the inside circle? If so, bad move Hillary. Wake-up.
In the wake of the voters general disenchantment with ChimpCo, the occupations unpopularity and Chimpy’s bad numbers, I had hoped that Mrs. Collins or Mrs. Snow (or both) could be pulled over, making RGJoe less relevant. But that seems farther away now.
Get well, Senator Johnson.
His voice makes my ears bleed.
But his views make me heartsick. How can someone believe that to get a country to “play by the rules” and “join the international community” we need to BOMB it? You can tell, in the FtN tape, when RGJoe goes into his talking points: he swallows and looks away from the camera — and spouts.
By moving “reasonable discourse” wide enough to include bombing Iran, he’s made W’s endless occupation of Iraq seem a moderate, middle position. He and Cheney are opening an entirely other Overton window with their “bomb Iran” framing.
I love Scheiffer’s take: he doesn’t call RGJoe out on his insanity, but practically wets himself on camera that a guest has “made some news” on his absurd little programme.
“There is credible evidence” that Lieberman is a fucking asshole. Sheesh, “I’m not talking about a massive ground invasion, just a little bombing across the border.” Yeah, that’ll work.
Bravo Jane! But, alas, it won’t happen. The Dems would have to have a some balls to do this, and they haven’t shown any yet in the 6 years of this administration.
Siun @ 40
Did not our Speaker promise a standalone floor vote on the IranWar authority when she pulled it from the supplemental bill that got vetoed? When’s that vote gonna happen, Nancy?
Siun @ 40
Exactly. Exactly.
We need to think about who should be our party’s leader in the Senate come 2009. Cuz it ain’t Harry: Lieberman-respecting forced-birth proponent.
Geneva Conventions? I care very, very much.
Come on, Jane. “This is totally silly.” I’ve been linking to statements Senator Lieberman has been openly making in the Israeli press advocating nothing different, sometimes in a more bellicose manner, than what he said this morning. As long as he’s been making them. But there should be no surprise there. I believe I was the first here to post this – on January 3 or 4:
In a stark statement published on Saturday Brigadier General Oded Tira observed, “President Bush lacks the political power to attack Iran. As an American strike in Iran is essential for our existence, we must help him pave the way by lobbying the Democratic Party (which is conducting itself foolishly) and US newspaper editors. We need to do this in order to turn the Iranian issue to a bipartisan one and unrelated to the Iraq failure.”
Because of the dramatic loss of political power of the Bush-Cheney administration, General Tira urges the Israel Lobby to, “turn to Hillary Clinton and other potential presidential candidates in the Democratic Party so that they support immediate action by Bush against Iran.”
Fred Thompson is about to board a small private jet to Dov Haz International right this hour.
I really do wonder who’s gonna whack Reid upside the head. Metaphorically speaking, of course.
As part of my nascent 50 state blog addiction, I went to see what was there about Reid and Lieberman (edit- in Nevada). Not much, that I could find.
Lieberman can’t be recalled in CT, irrc.
I’ve heard something to the effect that “the power is at the point of pressure”, but where is that, in this case?
TeddySanFran @ 52
When is Chris Dodd’s seat up? 2010!
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 2
I won, but it was only a short-term goal.
Now we must have more members of the FDL group (317) than the MyDD group has (477).
As Pach said last night, “We must crush them. I expect to talk to Matt Stoller later tomorrow, and it would be nice if I could talk some smack to him about it.”
Ditto that.
Ed*ard Teller @ 54
She’s keeping it alive for some of us who are not totally focused on this specific issue. Lot’s of stuff gets recycled here don’t ya think?
Been lurking here in the shadows here for quite some time and really appreciate the quality writing and thoughtful intelligent comments. It is so refreshing to find a place where the trolls are mainly conspicuous by their absence.
There is one thing I don’t understand and that is what is wrong with Lieberman being called a Democrat. How is that going to hurt the Dems politically in 08?
Is there anything wrong with being known as a party that embraces a broad swath of the political spectrum? It may pay dividends by attracting voters who may not in the past been comfortable voting Dem. It’s high time they started to sell themselves as the party of the center and start being proud to be both progressive and liberal.
It’s time for me to make a donation, this is too good to be free.
Some might think I am furious with my party. And they’d be pretty close. I want Lieberman gone from my party. And I am fully aware of the possible consequences.
Lawrence @ 59
Lay off him till the check clears! :)
Hey Connecticut!!!! Your Senator wants WAR!!!
Is that how YOU voted????
What precisely is Mr. Lieberman’s agenda?
CTuttle @ 35
Actually, with the death of the Senator Thomas of Wyoming, who knows what happens now. Besides, who knows how Pryor or the Nelsons would vote.
newtonusr @ 56
I can tell you who I think ought to be Senate Majority Leader. Russ Feingold!!!
Hello Pups, Not a lot of time to comment lately, we’re all harvesting our hay right now, sun-up til sun-down, it’s not like the farm bill is save our asses. Anyway, this makes me think of the post a couple previuos, Who are we now? And who the fuck is Joe Liarman? This guy is NOT a dem, he is wolf in sheeos clothing, plain and simple. A traitor to the people since he can’t even give an honest answer as to which party he is a part of. I am so sick of him, I wish he would just crawl off somewhere and dehydrate into nothingness. But of course he won’t, he’s got too much at stake what with blowing GWB all the time, what a tool.
Democrats. Do not deal with a blackmailer. Strip Lieberman of any influence in the party. Force his hand.
Tap Duncan @ 66
Hey Tap
You got stuff to harvest huh, the shit is weak here in Georgia with this drought.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 67
Yep.
Valley Girl @ 55
Actually, if I understood what I’ve read correctly, NO senators or congress persons can be recalled, even in those states that do have recall provisions in their election codes. Those are considered “federal” offices and the only way to get them out after being seated is for the appropriate body to expel them I believe James Trafficant was the last expulsion after he was convicted for bribery and other charges a few years ago. Most folks do the resignation bit prior to an act of expulsion.
I see I had al ot of typos, it must be the tequila…Ha Ha Ha Ive been on the tractor for 3 days straight, cut me some slack.
Hey Raven, Semper Fi My Brother…
BUT: if Reid “stripped him of his committee assignments and bid him adieu”… then
(1) Lieberman would become Republican, and…
(2) with Cheney, the Senate would be Republican, and…
(3) Reid would no longer be Majority Leader, and….
(4) Lieberman would again be the pivot point of power.
Think Reid figgerd that out?
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 65
As long as we’re dreaming out-loud – President Feingold.
Tap Duncan @ 71
Back atcha
new up on think progress, leahey should get this out to all republicans before the vote of no confidence…or maybe postpone the vote;
just peeking in to say
Kristina vanden Heuvel on CSPAN 1 for the hour
and down with Joe!
and frankly, goodbye Reid
Raven— If it was worht my while I’d ship it there, but last year it was even worse. I hope ya’ll get some kind of a reprieve, we got 8 inches of rain last week alone, now the first cutting is huge!!! Semper Fi Brother, and Thinking about you MUCH!!!
Bill @ 72
As has been explained previously, the organizing resolution for the Senate in the 110 Senate specified individuals by name for the various roles and committee chairs so even if Lieberman becomes a republic tomorrow, Reid stays as majority leader and all the committees (except for homeland security and oversight) stay in Democratic hands.
Given Lieberman’s creepy psyche, I am sure any move against him would be met with a full on tantrum. He will expose himself as a whiny charlatan. I’d like to see that (and Russ Feingold as Majority Leader)
“In one sense, watching Congress do what it does is an affirmation of how fortunate Americans are that the Nation’s founders understood the importance of creating a nation of laws with checks and balances. On the other hand, unless you spend some time in say, prison, you won’t find another place where you can observe just how far people will go to get what they want,” Robert H. McElroy
There is no sunlight between my opinion of Joe Lieberman and Punaises’ opinion of Sanctimonious War-Mongering Joe.
-GSD
P.S.
Albania can have Bush.
Tap Duncan @ 77
I moved down here from Illinois in 84, in 86 there was another bad one and the farmers in Illinois and other midwest states sent down feed that almost killed the cattle because it was so much richer than the stuff down here. Only so much you get out of red clay!
dakine– You hit the nail fair and square on the head, and sank it bro’
Tap Duncan @ 77
Dude! If that is hay, then I’m happy. Paying $11 per bale as opposed to $5 two years ago!!!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 63
The Rapture. Followed by more research tax credits for Big Pharma* .
* Not the cigar-smoking, small-blue-pill popping one.
raven @ 82
Oh yeah I remember that one… it almost desimated the enitire herd crop for that year. At the time I was living and punching cows in NM and a lot of ranchers were afraid to import hay from the “green states”.. it could colic a cow in 2 days straight, and when you 2500 head to look after (Feeed lot or range) it got very scary, trust me. No one got a full night sleep from March til June. Don’t want to re-live that again, I god Woodrow….(Lonesome Dove reference given free of charge)… Tap
I don’t believe for one minute that the voters in Connecticut, as opposed to like-minded voters all over the country, singularily would support an attack on Iran!! Most of Connecticut is rural, so you can’t blame it on corporate ruler types, they only live in Stamford and that immediate area. It is a lie, and I don’t believe it. That election should have been investigated.
raven says:
June 10th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Lawrence @ 59
Been lurking here in the shadows here for quite some time and really appreciate the quality writing and thoughtful intelligent comments. It is so refreshing to find a place where the trolls are mainly conspicuous by their absence.
There is one thing I don’t understand and that is what is wrong with Lieberman being called a Democrat. How is that going to hurt the Dems politically in 08?
Is there anything wrong with being known as a party that embraces a broad swath of the political spectrum? It may pay dividends by attracting voters who may not in the past been comfortable voting Dem. It’s high time they started to sell themselves as the party of the center and start being proud to be both progressive and liberal.
It’s time for me to make a donation, this is too good to be free.
Lay off him till the check clears! :)
The check just cleared paypal…so fire away
LS @ 84
I feel for you, I pay 3.00/bale. The thig is, we have 120 acres of hay to cut and bale, but we don’t have any place to keep that much. So I sell it off at $1.00 bale, and now we’re sitting pretty. My heart goes out to those in the drought areas, even tho’ there is no global warming…
See, the problem is, we’re not killing enough Arabs.
GSD @ 81
So can Paraguay.
Lieberman should have told the people of Conn. that he is a neocon Israeli.
I am not sure if that is offensive to anyone. It is not intended.
Tap Duncan @ 89
Send it to me!!! No, seriously, we are getting gouged also by the gas transport rates. TX has been in a drought for a couple of years, and they’ve been trucking it in from as far away as Florida. The hay dealers (if they know you are from here) just raise the price through the roof, because they know they can get it. Thankfully, it has been raining all spring here finally, and the prices are dropping. That is really hard work – I have done it. You well deserve some Cuervo Gold and a cervesa or 2, or 3 or whatever. ;)
Take my Rice, please.
-GSD
Lawrence @ 88
I’s just joshin around!
you know, why doesn’t someone ask this fool where he expects to get the resources to attack Iran since the president has depleted our armed forces to near breaking point?
we need to let this military moron dig his own grave with the things he says, we need to point out that military options are off the table BECAUSE of the unprovoked war in Iraq and BECAUSE of the people that actually think we can continue our course of action
Rob Zuber @ 8
What in heaven’s name do you mean by “don’t need him anymore”?
Ed*ard Teller @ 91
Yeah, how about Kazakstan(sp)????? We’ll let Borat take care of them…
Tap Duncan @ 89
I grew up in small town Kentucky and my VERY first job was putting up hay. Now, I don’t even think they do bales anymore, just do the big rolls and leave ‘em out in the field as I understand it.
Back in the day, we PRAYED to have farmers who bailed in the 45-50lb range and cried if we were hired by someone who bailed 70-75lb’ers…
dakine01 @ 78
Yes.
GSD @ 81
Do you think they’ll keep him if we ask real nice?
perris @ 96
I hope everyone realizes the only military options we havea against Iran are nuclear
that’s what cheney wants you know, an excuse to nuke Iran…he’s looking for an excuse and it seems that is actually the grand plan, they have deliberately depleted our conventioanl obtions where nothing but nuclea is left
the grand plan…and then martial law and then forever bush
Sangemon @ 97
Exactly that. The margin is so narrow right now. Without one vote, we lose oversight.
A little late to the party, but thanks, Jane – YOU NAILED IT!!!
Thank you, Jane, for expressing the frustration that we’re all feeling from the appeasement of Lieberman and lack of real progress on the huge issues facing us. Just the inaction of Lieberman’s committees is astounding!
Sangemon @ 97
if things go according to these maniac’s plan there will be no 08 election
Jane Hamsher @ 100:
I should have specified that the Senate Homeland Security and Oversight Committee is ALREADY not in Dem hands to be exact.
Not Kazakhstan.
I’m training surgeons there, he would just mess things up like he always does.
Raven, I hope you realize that I was doing the same, I’m Canadian and don’t really have a direct stake in it anymore …….just would very happy if the good guys came out on top.
Kick out the traitor. Disallow him access to any Democratic party caucus meetings or internal communications. That guy needs to be made an example of.
perris @ 106
Possibly, but if that were to happen, I for one will take to the streets and fight.
LS @ 93—-
Where in Tejas are you? Last year we shipped 600 bales (not a lot) for $3.00/bale and we knew they were selling it for 8-10/bale. I am all for a screwing of the Bushes, anytime, anywhere. If you have a 4,5,6… horse trailer it could be worth your while. My neibhoor has more than we could all dream of…
Lawrence @ 110
I’m with ya bro.
Recently, I heard or read that China had installed 350 cruise missiles in Iran and that is why Georgie has not bombed them. If true I guess the contest was no longer slanted in his favor.
egregious @ 108
Nobody in their right mind would want him…except maybe that Paradise Island water subdivision thingy in Dubai…let’s ship him over there.
“no one wants to end the war more than I do”
To think that people in my home state were hoodwinked by this lying sack of shit depresses me.
I hate JoeLie so much. Everytime I think I cant hate him more, he doubles down.
Cut him loose, Harry.
Tap Duncan @ 71
You got the slack 8-) Sometimes I really get homesick for the NewDealFarmGrrrlll ancestral homestead, but haying! With my hayfever, glad to miss it. During excessive overtime hours I still use the expression “gotta make hay while the sun shines.”
Tap Duncan @ 112
Central TX, south of Austin.
Ed*ard Teller @ 91
tsk, tsk. Should we be exporting toxic waste?
dakine, you are right about that. I grew up in the days when there weren’t balers that shot it out to the wagon. You know, when you had to to throw it in the hay wagon…yeah bro’ been there, done that…;)
egregious @ 42
Per an article by Benjamin Ferencz, one of the U.S. prosecutors at Nuremberg:
NewDealFarmGrrrlll @ 119
That kind. Yes.
Jane Hamsher @ 57
Oh, munificent mods, I would like to join the party!!! *g*
http://www.facebook.com/addfriend.php?id=552355843
LS— I lived in Taylor for 3 years, outside of town, mind you, bu it was the summer of Lubby’S, I was litersly filling up on gas about 4-5 blocks away when it went down…and fresh out the Marine Corps., I felt guilty that I couldn’t help anyone. Brings back memries…
Urban Pirate @ 116
God, me too. My BestF in CT was working hard to elect House Dems, and said at one point that the Lie/ Lamont race was a distraction. I just have to keep saying, “and how do you feel about that now?” Somehow, low info voters seemed to identify with JoeLie’s talk about “having Seniority” as a point of pride for them.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 64
Wouldn’t it be interesting if Lynne Cheney, did replace Thomas!!! Bwhahaha….!!! *g*
egregious @ 42
Current events for 20: What distinguished member of the Harvard Law School Class of 1982 said:
???
We will be at war with Iran before Bush leaves office. It isn’t a question of “if,” but of “when.” Cheney has eviscerated the Army and USMC leadership. The rapture-hungry USAF eviscerated their own leadership of realistic thinkers. The only people who have kept this from happening yet are the USN leadership, and – as some may have noticed – Cheney is working that game really hard now, as we observe bright shiny objects elsewhere.
I think the main things holding them back at this point are flaws in the redisign of older enhanced radiation weapons or glitches in some sort of a new design for the same. No Iran war scenario works without nuclear weapons and no oil comes out of the gulf for 20 years without most of the nukes being enhanced radiation 2nd generation devices.
The Democratic leadership will support the war to the point necessary for it to be implemented. There is nothing we can do to stop it.
Sorry I can’t provide some comfort here.
allan_in_upstate @ 127
AGAGAG
CTuttle @ 126
If only so that Pat Leahy could tell her to go Cheney herself.
that was me gagging
Ed*ard Teller @ 128
Hmm and I’ve been clean and sober for 13 years, may need to spark one!
CTuttle @ 126
She has been rumored as has the recently resigned USA. Although he’s supposedly being discrete about his interest…
allan_in_upstate @ 130
That would be a Kod*k moment!!! 707!!!
Aite, the future’s uncertain and the end is always near. Let’s see how the Soprano’s work out. AMF
TeddySanFran @ 5
Interesting perspective…
Jane’s post is right on the money but the opinion is expressed that Joey ‘The Insane’ Liarmann has some utility to the ‘Democrat’ Party as a scapegoat for there failure, so far, to force a cessation of our occupation of Iraq.
I can assure you that this is not what the Democratic base thinks. They are hopping mad at Reid and Pelosi and the rest of the Party ‘leadership’. There is serious talk about no grassroots fundraising until said ‘leadership’ takes action. People who have never emailed or contacted their Congresscritter before are askng us how to do so and how to frame the issue.
Further, the ‘inside baseball’ bullshit Reid, Emmanuel and others are attempting to spin this issue just is not cutting it. The base wants the Democratic Party to stand up and fight Bush every inch of the way.
No accommodation…
No compromise….
Nothing but attack, attack and attack…
Now leadership may or may not respond to the ‘base’ but…
They sure as hell are not going to ignore the precipitous drop in Congressional approval. That’s political suicide and while I may be wrong I don’t see them going that way.
I think Joey is going to find out that spewing war-mongering rhetoric is very, very much not the thing to do. So much so that look to see him go ‘under the bus’ in the near term.
Bottom line….
The time for excuses is over. The people have spoken. They want action and if they don’t get it….
It will be ‘off with their heads…’ for the ‘Democrat’ Party.
I urge every FireDog to bite them a ‘Spineless’ Dem today. Don’t wait!
Email Reid today.
Call his office tomorrow.
They will listen.
If you speak out.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 64
I heard on NPR last week that the Wyoming GOP chooses three candidates to propose to the Governor, and he choose one to replace Thomas. Sounds crazy to me, but that’s what I understood them to say.
wigwam @ 137
That’s the name of that tune!
(Back to the IE thingie.)
I hope Joe is encouraging his children to suit up and head to the Middle East where they can be on the frontlines in Daddy’s War.
I get the feeling this isn’t going to happen any time too soon.
-GSD
Also the US has confirmed that the military has begun to arm isnurgent groups in Iraq.
You can almost smell the blowback from here.
Ed*ard Teller @ 128
I thought they were working on an enhanced bunker-buster. But perhaps they’re content to give everyone in the bunker cancer.
LS @ 103
This is not factual. Senate committee chairmanships are fixed for this term of Congress. Nothing can stop oversight at this point. Dems don’t need Joe’s vote for that.
Reid is a very cautious political player. I disagree vehemently with him on the subject of Joe but he has proved a master of the Senate rules and may have a reason for allowing Joe his soapbox but oversight is not one of them.
LS @ 103
What have ANY of them done for us lately?
Hey Pups, What’s gonna happen on the Sopranos in 10 minutes???
OT- but sure to start something….
What do we want? PEACE!
When do we want it? NOW
Are we sick of this? Hell Yeah!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e44zTRl22A
wigwam @ 137
I personally think there are 17th Amend. Violations with that State law, I most definitely maybe wrong, however, I think a good argument could be made!!! Any thought from the legal eagles??? :-)
OH OH OH
right on topic too;
the gop wants to get rid of hagel!!!
KEWEL
untill we get the morons making military decisions out of office I’ll trade away one lieberman for one hagel ANY DAY
Valley Girl @ 125
Keeping the CT Firefighters in his camp in the general was perplexing. They (in the form of Dan Hunsberger, the VP of the group) sure tried to make RGJoe look like the “meat and potatoes” candidate. Damn.
perris @ 106
Well yes, that’s what the plan has been since the beginning. But what does any of that have to do with needing Leiberman for anything?
Perris, with a LOT OF SARCASM, I’ll See you’re Hagel, and I’ll raise you 3 Liarman’s…P.S.– I don’t even know what that means, but it sounded funny!!!!
perris @ 147
Hagel is a true-blue bushie on EVERYTHING except Iraq. He even voted for Cornyn’s move to end the Fed Minimum wage law. He is NOT a moderate by any stretch of the imagination.
GSD @ 141
We were against ethnic cleansing before we were for it.
Mary McCurnin @ 114
Yes, exactly. Check this out.
Tap Duncan @ 151
well then I push all in
hagel will help us get bush out of office…we need to broker a deal with him…I am sure he knows some republicans that will follow suit if we make offers that will help keep them in office
wigwam @ 141
They have to kill the people in the bunkers. They need to give the people on the coast and in the petroleum infrastructure 3-day cancer, so we can walk in a week after the attacks and turn the switches back on.
The Cheney-Lieberman world view is that diplomacy doesn’t work with terrorists because there are too many of them and their leadership is too diffuse to effectively broker agreements or treaties with. They also know that conventional military action only expands their numbers. So, the neo-cons can only conceive of annihilation (genocide) as a solution. Add to this their belief that they themselves are brave visionaries, the use of a nuclear weapon not only eliminates combatants, but also their territory for generations.
We can’t forget that these people (Cheney and Lieberman) are seriously deranged.
dakine01 @ 152
I think we can persuade him to moderate his position…especially if the gop is giving him walking papaers
perris @ 147
An even swap; HoJo for Hagel, I’ll take Hagel’s combat record over HoJo’s draft-dodging, A*P*C financed ass, any day of the week!!! 8-)
With Blackwater/Amway and Haliburton on his side, does Cheney really need the support of the military? …..might give a whole new meaning to onwards christian soldiers
Sopranos on—-
Tap out—-
Ya’ll never leave my brain,,,which isn’t always good thing
Aloha,
Tap
USMC
86-91
Semper Fi Cindy S
RIP- Casey
wigwam @ 141
The use of nuclear explosives cannot guarantee destruction of properly designed underground facilities.
Don’t agree?
Watch this video clip about the use of nuclear ‘bunker busters’.
You will notice that Pakistan and India might have a slight problem with…uh, fallout…
As usual Cheney and Bush have got it wrong. Wrong on the tactics and wrong on the strategy.
What a freakin’ surprise.
raven @ 132
Now you and I both know that that is not the answer.
perris @ 154
I got smacked around pretty good a few months back for suggesting that we stand with Hagel for a limited purpose – he stands with us and throws flaming objects at war criminals.
Tonight ends my teevee guilty pleasure. See you in an hour.
perris @ 147
Let’s trade!!!! Hagel rocked when he stood up to his fellow idiots and took a stand. For a GOP person to do that showed some cojones in his party
Sangemon @ 153
Kinda see’s our three-of-a-kind(Three Carrier Groups!) with a game-winning Flush!!! ;-)
newtonusr @ 163
Right on bro’, one hour from now, be here or be square…
dakine01 @ 133
Doesn’t the Dem governor appoint the new senator? And I don’t think he’ under any obligation to appoint a republic.
Russia recently sold Iran around 40 of these Tor M-1 missile systems.
I repeat, the US will be shocked by the aftermath of an attack on Iran. So will the rest of the world.
-GSD
Mary McCurnin @ 114
I believe if the man actually bombed Iran even the republicans would vote to impeach
then it would be a question of how…cheney would insist congress and senate had no authority to remove him from office since they gave him unlimited power to fight terrorism
Sangeon,
Wyoming law has it that the deceased Senators Party chooses three and the Governor picks on of the three.
-GSD
Tap Duncan @ 144
DON’T SPOIL IT!
Sangemon @ 167
My understanding is the Utah state constitution requires the Governor, no matter the party, to appoint a replacement from a list of three provided by the state party committee from the former seat holder’s party. Which means the Dem governor has to appoint from a list of 3 Republics to be provided by the state committee.
GSD @ 168
I think Putin is a little neocon just like Bush, and I think this little theatrical outburst from the two of them is a bunch of mutually choreographed hogwash.
dakine01 @ 172
Meant Wyoming vice Utah
Sangemon @ 167
Not under the current State Laws, I personally believe they’re unconstitutional, however, they’re on the books!!! :-(
siun one filight up
I don’t get Joe he knows things are not going well in Iraq attacking Iran would require a lot more troops and taxes to support those troops. Joe is a Centerist Democrat he hates taxes. Ask him if in order to pay for a war with Iran would he be willing to sacrifices his states sub base? Joe will go for a waffle no answer about how things would not come to that. Then we embarras him with Joe is ALL for war just so long as his state does not have to sacrifice. A THREATENED new round of military base closing in Joe’s and Hard Core Bushie states might pry loose a few votes we need to end the war. We tell the Moderate Republicans vote with us or your state’s military bases are next!
Jeff Lomonaco has come back to the Murray thread and is answering questions.
LS @ 115
Let’s put him on Palm Island!
(which is sinking)
I add my voice to that of Jane.
Lieberman isn’t merely advocating the bombing of Iran. He’s telegraphing the eventuality and reality of it happening. Excuses are being prepared now. When it begins, the nation will be reminded of the advance warning we received of the need to confront Iran. This has the same inevitable feel as the build-up to Iraq, the same lack of exposure by the MSM, the same quiet from our elected officials. The signs are obvious yet subtle. Aggresive yet non-commital. They are going to do it again, no matter what the aftershocks and costs. Joe Lieberman is a dangerous man preparing us for what will come. He is one of a cabal of foolish, dangerous men. The question remains, are there enough good people in Washington to stand up in time to stop this calamity, or is it already too late? Any thoughts?
Hey Joe, you probably always wanted people to believe you are more than a fool. Well congratulations. You are now perceived as a dangerous fool.
It won’t help to keep urging Reid to dump Joementum. There must be some reason why he hasn’t done so already. Is it because of needing the Senate majority? (Certainly plausible.) Or is there some other unbreakable connection between Democrats and the Neocon position?
We need to know why the Dems, especially Hillary, are going along with Lieberman’s trash talk. Until we know why, I don’t see how we have a ghost of a chance of changing this sick situation.
Can anyone tell me why they are still supporting Joe? The answer is important.
I’d like senators first and foremost sympathetic to American interests serving in the US senate, rather than senators too highly sympathetic to Israeli interests serving in the US senate. Ditto for the WH.
Everybody is taking a position — rare for politicians.
Lieberman is certainly OUT, showing his true NeoCon colors.
Hillary appears to be showing her Goldwater colors too (surprising me). I wonder if she went to Calif to speak to prominent Jews about this Iranian situation as much as to raise campaign money.
Hagel seems to be showing some spine and that would be good.
Bush is abroad, so I’d guess this recent blast of propaganda and rhetoric is a Rovian concept.
What does it all mean?
It feels like desperation, at least in part. Are they desperate to distract America from the attack on Bushies or are they in a hurry to carry out the next part of their attack on the Axis of Evil before they lose ALL their powers or are they scared the public mood is slipping too far out of reach and that they will certainly lose power in the ‘08 presidential election if they don’t act now to manipulate and control the American opinion?
With the mention of Lynne Cheney being a possible senator for Wyoming I have to also wonder if they’re afraid V.P. Cheney is seriously in danger of being pushed out, so that they would need Lynne’s sure vote in the Senate to protect him.
Though there is a lot of activity it doesn’t feel like a major restructuring of political power. It’s just a power play of monumental proportions (at least in rhetoric if not in actuality).
Well, they went ahead with their plans in Iraq, despite there being plenty of opportunity to NOT do it. So, we can’t discount that they might actually be starting another war. I can’t imagine anybody in the military would recommend it or give them any affirmative support. It’s obviously crazy.
But, crazy bluffs of major proportions have to be considered. You can’t simply discount it without full knowledge — that would be reckless and irresponsible.
It’s certainly more obvious now who the NeoCons favorite presidential candidates appear to be (Clinton & Thompson). That should help voters (Connecticut voters too) understand their options better.
What should Dems do?
I don’t entirely trust Reid, but we’ll have to cross our fingers and hope he protects Dem power in the Senate. We can’t give up that power now. It cost us a lot to get it and it gives us some important leverage against Bush. Without the Congress it would be very hard (probably impossible) to restrain Bush. If Reid pushes Lieberman to the Repub side and that causes Dems to lose power, then we’ll also know it’s a conspiracy.
It might not be obvious, but I’d also trust the Dem governor of Wyoming to pick the best Repub candidate for Senator — but he has to realize it’s important to disregard his own political ambitions for ‘08 because what’s happening right NOW is very very important. Clearly this would force us/him to disregard a Senator Cheney possibility. He’ll have to pick from the other two candidates and I’m certain he knows them far better than us.
Voters, as I wrote above, also know better who to support and vote for. If Hillary is a NeoCon at heart and is triangulating, then we really really have to oppose her on national security grounds as well as other issues. This forces her current supporters to consider Edwards, Obama, Dodd or even Biden. It’s just not sane to continue to support her if she is truly in league with the Bushies.
Ladies of the Lake, I have to say this is probably THE very most interesting and challenging blog post I’ve read since coming to this blog some time ago. I never would have guessed your great focus on Lieberman and his political race would remain as a focal point for discussion this long. Your prescience is formidable.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 65
Amen to that!
CTuttle @ 146
Indeed there are: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/amar/20070608.html
An excerpt:
The easiest thing for the Governor to do may simply be to do *nothing*, i.e. make no appointment at all until an election is held.
Markinsanfran @ 187
These are very interesting points. Perhaps if Alan Dershowitz is not too busy writing another amicus brief for Libby, he could put his oar in the water on this. Let’s all send him an email and suggest that.
Milan River @ 184
I’m interested in having more bloggers who don’t waste ink excoriating Israel.
Lieberman’s first loyalty is to Israel (Like Cherkoff he is an Israel citizen.), and he wants to expand our present Proxy War on Behalf Of Israel in Iraq to Iran. Israel does not care in the slightest that the Adventure and Occupation of Iraq is Bad for America, just as attacking Iran will be even more disastrous for the US.
I don’t think it’s fair to blame Lieberman for the sabre-rattling on Iran, he’s just the front guy. Clinton, Obama, and Edwards have all made speeches about how “no option can be taken off the table” when it comes to Iran. 80% of the Democrats in the Senate just voted to give Bush all the money he wants for Iraq.
Bush thinks he can get all the war funding he wants, so he’s going after the next target. Until the Democrats stand up to him in some meaningful way, he’ll just keep generating more war.
maunga @ 190
Amazing! BOTH are citizens of Israel, you say?
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for some sources on that tonight.
Markinsanfran @ 187
Can he do that?
nrglaw 189
I think you made a giant leap from MY writing ‘desire for US senators to be first and foremost sympathetic to the US senate, rather than sympathetic to Israeli interests’ TO YOUR WORDS, “excoriating Israel”.
If I wanted to write those words I would have written them. Please don’t extrapolate on my words or meaning.
This is more of the same. Remember Iraq had terror training camps that plotted on airliners?
So goes the next rumor.
Pick a refugee camp, claim it’s a terrorist camp, start another war.
Censure Joe Lieberman.
Read Senator Joseph I. Lieberman’s speeches to A*P*C on the Google.
(MOD NOTE: *edited to allow through spam filter)
Read Senator Joseph I. Lieberman’s speeches to A*P*C on the Google.
nrglaw @ 193
According to the linked Findlaw article, the state law that requires him to select one of three people proposed by the republican (in this case) party violates the 17th ammendment, so he could cite that violation and just not do anything. That, however, would be a relatively agressive move on his part.
First and foremost Lieberman is an egoist. But put that aside. He probably genuinely sees a need for a new colonialism in the middle east. He sees no alternative to fossil fuels for the next fifty years. He sees China and India sucking up the world’s natural resources. He sees the need for him to place himself as an historic figure…”it was lieberman who…”.
Actually, his concerns are probably on point, the problem is he is not creative or courageous. Lieberman is a guy who seeks attention, that is it.
And what we need now is someone who can capture the imagination of what remains of the Amercian can do and spirit. And that is not Lieberman or the Clintons or Kerry or Gore.
The US is being urged to go to war in the interests of Israel, and anyone who notices this will be branded an antisemite.
Same old same old.
TeddySanFran @ 50
The vote(s) DID happen — both = FAILED…
Even Murtha who rattled off his head that he would support such a resolution voted NAY on both!
DEFAZIO Amendment “…to clarify that no previously enacted law authorizes military action against Iran. It also prohibits funding authorized by the bill or in any other act from being used to take military action against Iran without specific authorization from Congress unless there is a `national emergency created by an attack by Iran upon the United States, its territories or possessions or its armed forces’ (language taken directly from the War Powers Resolution, P.L. 93-148). Sponsor: Rep DeFazio, Peter A. [OR-4] (introduced 5/16/2007) Cosponsors (None) Latest Major Action: 5/16/2007 House amendment not agreed to. Status: On agreeing to the DeFazio amendment (A005) Failed by recorded vote: 136 – 288 (Roll no. 365).
ROLL CALL
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll365.xml#N
ANDREWS Amendment “…to prevent funds authorized in the bill for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan from being obligated or expended to plan a contingency operation in Iran. Sponsor: Rep Andrews, Robert E. [NJ-1] (introduced 5/16/2007) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 5/16/2007 House amendment not agreed to. Status: On agreeing to the Andrews amendment (A004) Failed by recorded vote: 202 – 216 (Roll no. 364).
ROLL CALL
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll364.xml#N
Rob Zuber @ 8
http://politicalinsider.com/2007/02/lieber…
Lieberman Switch Wouldn’t Flip Senate
With Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) publicly stating he’d consider becoming a Republican if Democrats block new funding for the Iraq War, many Democrats worry that control of the Senate hangs in the balance. However, their fears are unfounded. Many think back to 2001 when former Sen. Jim Jeffords (I-VT) began caucusing with Democrats instead of Republicans, taking control of the Senate out of GOP hands. However, the two situations – though outwardly similar – contain one important difference.
If Lieberman were to caucus with the Republicans, they would still not take full control of the Senate, despite Vice President Dick Cheney’s ability to break 50-50 ties. This is because of a little-known Senate organizing resolution, passed in January, which gives Democrats control of the Senate and committee chairmanships until the beginning of the 111th Congress.
What’s the difference between now and 2001? A small but important distinction. When the 107th Congress was convened on January 3, 2001, Al Gore was still the Vice President and would be for another two-and-a-half weeks. Therefore, because of the Senate’s 50-50 tie, Democrats had nominal control of the chamber when the organizing resolution came to a vote. With Dick Cheney soon to come in, however, Democrats allowed Republicans to control the Senate in return for a provision on the organizing resolution that allowed for a reorganization of the chamber if any member should switch parties, which Jeffords did five months later. There was no such clause in the current Senate’s organizing resolution.