Bring on the sunshine:
The subpoena threat came after a senior Justice Department official told a House judiciary subcommittee on Thursday that the department would not turn over the documents because of their confidential nature. But the official, Steven G. Bradbury, principal deputy assistant attorney general and head of the Justice Department’s office of legal counsel, did not assert executive privilege during the hearing.The potential confrontation over the documents comes in the wake of gripping Senate testimony last month by a former deputy attorney general, James B. Comey, who described a confrontation in March 2004 between Justice Department and White House officials over the wiretapping program that took place in the hospital room of John Ashcroft, then attorney general. Mr. Comey’s testimony, disclosing the sharp disagreements in the Bush administration over the legality of some N.S.A. activities, has increased Congressional interest in scrutinizing the program.
At the same time, the Bush administration is seeking new legislation to expand its wiretapping powers under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Democratic lawmakers in both the House and the Senate have argued that they do not want to vote on the issue without first seeing the administration’s legal opinions on the wiretapping program.
“How can we begin to consider FISA legislation when we don’t know what they are doing?” asked Representative Jerrold Nadler, Democrat of New York, who heads the subcommittee.
On May 17, after Mr. Comey’s testimony, Mr. Nadler and Representative John Conyers Jr., Democrat of Michigan, who is the chairman of the full Judiciary Committee, wrote to Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales requesting copies of Justice Department legal opinions used to support the N.S.A. wiretapping program, as well as later documents written by top Justice Department officials that raised questions about the program’s legality in 2004. The letter also asked Mr. Gonzales to provide his own description of the 2004 confrontation.
Mr. Conyers said he had not received a response from the Justice Department. “We’re going to give him two more weeks, and then, as somebody said, it’s about time process kicks in somewhere around here,” Mr. Conyers said.
Welcome to oversight. This brings to mind the words that Al Gore spoke back in January of 2006, and I want to reprint a segment of that speech here for everyone:
A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government. Our Founding Fathers were adamant that they had established a government of laws and not men. Indeed, they recognized that the structure of government they had enshrined in our Constitution – our system of checks and balances – was designed with a central purpose of ensuring that it would govern through the rule of law. As John Adams said: “The executive shall never exercise the legislative and judicial powers, or either of them, to the end that it may be a government of laws and not of men.” An executive who arrogates to himself the power to ignore the legitimate legislative directives of the Congress or to act free of the check of the judiciary becomes the central threat that the Founders sought to nullify in the Constitution – an all-powerful executive too reminiscent of the King from whom they had broken free. In the words of James Madison, “the accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.”
Thomas Paine, whose pamphlet, “On Common Sense” ignited the American Revolution, succinctly described America’s alternative. Here, he said, we intended to make certain that “the law is king.”
Vigilant adherence to the rule of law strengthens our democracy and strengthens America. It ensures that those who govern us operate within our constitutional structure, which means that our democratic institutions play their indispensable role in shaping policy and determining the direction of our nation. It means that the people of this nation ultimately determine its course and not executive officials operating in secret without constraint.
The rule of law makes us stronger by ensuring that decisions will be tested, studied, reviewed and examined through the processes of government that are designed to improve policy. And the knowledge that they will be reviewed prevents over-reaching and checks the accretion of power.
I have no idea whether Gore wrote this speech on his own, or whether some speechwriter out there helped him with this — but I have to say, with all honesty and a tinge of envy at the excellence of this well-crafted speech: more of this please. From every Democrat who will pick up the torch of liberty and pass it forth for generations to come.
We had a fantastic chat yesterday with Caroline Frederickson of the ACLU regarding the issue of habeas rights restoration and the work that all of us can do to help move the legislation forward. If you missed the chat, I suggest taking a little time this morning to go back and read it.
As for the Democratic leadership in the House and Senate, I say only this: kudos on the sunshine. Those of you doing the tough work of both legislation and oversight on the mess that the Bush Administration and the previous Republican-controlled Congress are doing the hard work at the moment. I don’t expect instant miracles, but I sure would like a lot more sunshine in the days, weeks and months ahead. Especially when it comes to restoring the constritutional principles and civil liberties fought so hard for by the nation’s founders — and by every generation since.
I choose liberty. What say you?
(Gorgeous shot of the American flag via jcolman.)
Related posts:
- BREAKING: Stunning al-Haramain Filing Shames Obama; Shows Duplicity of Officials
- Obama’s New State Secrets Policy is Reaffirmation Of Bush’s Policy
- Holder Refuses to Stand by Statements Saying Violating FISA Breaks the Law
- State Secrets Bill Passes House Judiciary, 18-12
- Cheney’s and Gonzales’ CYA Libraries





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Mornin’ Redd.
Morning Busted! How’s tricks with you this morning?
Morning, Christy.
President Gore.
Being spared the last seven years is the kind of idea that can drive you crazy.
Yes, keep pouring on the sunshine. I’d like some teeth to go with it – I still think the administration’s attitude is a giant FUCK YOU, what you gonna do about it? But this is a start.
Funny how they screamed ‘Rule of Law’ at the top of their lungs when hounding Clinton, but nary a peep out of the feckless bastards when it’s one of their own.
Hypocritical scumbags.
Draft Gore!
Dodd for Sec of State. Edwards for VP. And let the rest of them go back to their day jobs.
I choose liberty (except for Scooter).
Other than being rather annoyed at a bunch of Republicans, I’m good Christy.
;)
IIRC, Gore writes his own books–and most of his own speeches. He supposedly has speech writers, but he edits them constantly, leaving them frustrated. Campaigning for 2000, he once at the last minute junked a speech written for him and decided to ad lib from the podium.
more great stuff, Christy. i tried to submit a comment at the end of the last post but that little wheel just woulen’t stop turning ……..
I choose Irony…
OT….
Today’s GOPig mailbag
…
addressed to the old man (former boss) who has since retired
On the front of the envelope:
From Mary Matalin, Assistant to the President, Counselor to the Vice President, 2001-2003
“No one was more intent on stopping the next attack, and if you knew what a difference he made, you’d be just as grateful as I am…” Please help me clear his name today.
I won’t open his mail, but I can only imagine how much crap is inside, but I can see through the thin envelope
There is more Bushco in action disaster planning in evidence. Michael Levitt commissioned a five week blog – the Pandemic Flu Leadership Blog – to bring governmental and public stakeholders together to ostensibly carry on a planning “conversation.” While the bloggers have tried repeatedly to engage the HHS, the HHS has stubbornly and with contempt, posted canned tripe and then remained silent. The experts and the commenters are noisily organizing another Boston Tea party. It’s worth your while to visit the blog, don your patriot garb and jump into the fray. Watch the Admiral walking the plank.
It’s very telling – when a pandemic hits, you will have Katrina on such an enormous scale, that very possibly, the republic will die along with flu victims.
Biodun @ 10
Gore is better off without his speech writers. Since he has not been running for president, I have been really impressed at his clarity and eloquence when he speaks. He sounds real and he makes sense. He has also improved in his ability to speak about complex topics without sounding too wonky. Bill Clinton is good at that as well. Hil–not so much. She sounds canned.
What was it Patrick Henry said? “Give me Liberty, or give me Darth?”
I’ll take Liberty, thank you very much.
Let’s give Darth to the US Bureau of Prisons for obstruction of justice.
Why the two-week delay? Why aren’t the Democrats issuing subpoenas immediately?
On a related note, I’d like to see hearings into press concentration and bias, with subpoenas heavily used to force testimony. Maybe that would result in more publicity for the few angry speeches we get from Congresional Dems.
Peterr @ 14
Or to the Hague for War Crimes.
Or better yet, both!
Off to meet S.O.S. for lunch. Should be fun.
Does anyone else get the sense that the Dems are slowly (like molasses) drawing the loop tighter around Cheney’s Chew-toy Junya, and his criminal crew?
I must be in my “glass half-full” mode to react so positively to Conyer’s minute minuet regarding some kinda “process” finally kicking in.
I’ve watched paint dry, grass grow, and now the Dems “Investigate” and I’m not sure which was slower.
To continue in the positive mode, the Dems must be planning to save the real fireworks for the Democratic Convention in 2008 and the final fall campaign push.
Now back to watching the snails marathon.
We must keep poring sunshine on all these people. I’m still reading Assalt on Reason and cant say often enough how amazing Gore’s take on the constitution and this administration is.
I watched Al Gore give a speech in Florida, I believe.
He was on fire that day.
I always was kind of Ho Hum about him, you know, the wooden personality thing.
But that speech opened my eyes wide.
The dude has some serious speechifyin’ skills!
He was passionate and forceful even.
I guess he decided the hell with it and just let it all hang out.
Permanently changed my opinion of the man.
I would LOVE to see him throw his hat in the ring.
leinie @ 5
I guess I agree. But I don’t know where any of this is going to lead if they can’t get impeachment of at least Gonzo going. As far as I can tell, Bush can just keep daring Congress to do something and as long as Gonzo controls the enforcement, they have absolute power.
btw, gang, Howie has a great candidate on deck for tomorrow’s Blue America chat. We’re going to have Tom Allen — who will be running against Susan Collins in Maine. Hope everyone can join us for the chat at 11 am PT/2 pm ET tomorrow!
Thanks for this post, Christy, and for the last one. I started reading FDL with the Libby trials. The upshot for me was utter disgust with the New York Times. I realize there are some decent journalists (I like to read Krugman, too), but after their front page apology for Jayson Blair’s lies–I would have hoped for some kind of explanation for Judith Miller. Now, when I do read the Times (I do that a lot less frequently), I’m sooo suspicious of what’s being left out, annoyed with the lack of coverage of important issues. It seems such a thin paper to me now.
On the up side, I have Lewis Libby to thank for sending me your way.
here’s the thing: disregard for law — based on either a belief that it doesn’t apply to you or that you’re beyond it, you don’t pay attention to any rules — may well be an attribute of the life of privilege bush and so many of his crime confederates have enjoyed. but it is also the defining characteristic of the sociopath.
the bushites have been mocked and derided for a long time now — remember the 2004 suskind magazine piece that quotes an unnamed official (and i’ll bet the rent it was rove) dismissing the reality-based community? but guess what: they kept behaving just that way and will continue to do so unless and until they are called on it. libby, i thought was a start; no, it appears, not so much.
sunshine is great; oversight is necessary. but until some more folks start getting arrested and doing time, there is no chance that they will change their behavior.
why would they? they are sociopaths.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 22
Certainly this is OK to spread via the blogosphere, yes?!
I know folks in Maine who would love to participate.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 22
Certainly this is OK to spread via the blogosphere, yes?!
I know folks in Maine who would love to participate.
Uh, oh . . . wordsmith’s got the hiccups again.
I thought we cured them during Late Nite last night.
Wordsmith at 24 — Absolutely! :)
DavidD @ 15
I think Conyers et al are trying to repair the Congress. By returning to a tone of civility and good faith.
By extending another 2 weeks, they can’t be accused of hypocrisy. They will issue the subpoenas, anyway, because I think the admin wants this to end up in the courts where they can argue the Cheney/Addington doctrine of the Unitary Executive wherein the President and the Vice President can do whatever the fuck they want because
of the war on terrorthey feel like it.dmg @ 23
I agree. They have nothing to lose if they keep up their behavior. Until someone takes away ther power, they will keep using it.
Poor Republicans, having to chose between failure and the rule of law: LINK
Most seem to want failure.
I would add that the spin that the Administration continues to spin still seems to work. After Iraq turned into a mess, they said, it didn’t matter if you agreed with the invasion, it’s what we do now that we’re there. Now they have managed to make the waiting out of Bush’s presidency a fait accompli, and they have us concentrating on the 2008 election. This is no accident.
Dang, maybe it’s the browser. I’m in IE now. I was in Firefox – which I updated the other day.
OK….while I’m waiting for the sheriff’s car to arrive at Paris Hilton’s house to pick her up, I’ll saunter over to a few places and let them know.
I’d love to see
CollinsLieberman-lite gone and gone for good. The great state of Maine deserves better.And I am loving these chats–even when I can’t follow them in real time, it is so interesting to go back later and read the threads.
And the other day when Dodd took my question (and said it was a really good one!) was a real thrill!
The Bush-GOP Scandal Documents Center has been expanded to include the latest news, key reports, document releases and other essential materials surrounding Bush administration and GOP wrong-doing. From the U.S. attorneys purge, Plamegate, and illegal NSA domestic surveillance to Iraq intelligence manipulation, torture scandals and the ongoing Jack Abramoff fall-out, it’s all there:
“The Bush-GOP Scandal Documents Center.”
here’s the link (mp3) to the complete audio of gore’s jan, 2006 speech: “Restoring the Rule of Law”, and here’s a page with links to lots more of his speeches. enjoy!
I watched part of the Bradbury-Nadler exchange (which was hard to do, Bradbury is sooo arrogant), and I do not understand why Bush and friends are so adamant that this is not about executive privilege. Is that because of trying to push their Unitary Exec. idea???
tommy yum @ 4
Exactly Tommy. Sometimes crazy with anger, and sometimes crazy with sorrow and pity for the victims of these criminals.
GeorgeSimian @ 32
really well said. i’m absolutely sure that was part of the discussion on iraq. and same on 2008 — they are getting a pass even from democrats because everyone has atrocity fatigue and simply cannot wait to be rid of the lot.
the big mistake is thinking that right after jan. 20 ‘09 that somehow the constitution will be magically restored and we can restore all the lost good will…
and i’m still waiting to hear about the massive catastrophe — a terrorist attack in the heartland, say — that will require bush to remain in office past his due date. and his backers will bleat, yeah, that’s ok — nothing anticonstitutional to see here. after all, he didn’t win that first election anyway.
Parsleysage @ 35
Eggzactly! The myth of UEP was the literal elephant in the room.
Thanks for featuring that particular Gore speech, Christy. It was a barn burner, a speech worth needlepointing, the kind that my kids could be quoting 20 years from now. I cried through half of that speech when watching it live; at the time this speech was given, we were desperately trying to prevent the confirmation of Sam Alito to SCOTUS, making this speech all the more poignant.
What should also have gotten more attention is the group that sponsored it — the Liberty Coalition, a transpartisan organization that focuses on civil and human rights. Even in late 2005 and early 2006 there were conservatives that were very concerned about Bush’s unitary executive. We need to continue to court these folks as they also believe firmly in the law as king.
OT–
Meanwhile, the bedlam in Iraq continues unabated:
I have to admit, lately I’ve been driven to absolute incoherency by the news.
I just don’t even know how to have discussions with people who agree with the adminstration anymore. They seem so divorced from reality to me that I just can’t connect.
G’morning, all — Christy, that speech of Al Gore’s will never get old. As the days get brighter, it’s great to reflect on one simple truth: 11/7 changed everything!
Looking forward to “meeting” Tom Allen tomorrow. A run at Susan Collins, with her support from RGJoe, is like another bite at the Ned apple. I can’t wait for Maine to turn blue.
BREAKING NEWS!! THIS JUST IN! STORY STILL DEVELOPING!!!
“…squadrons of helicopters hovered above the tense, heavily guarded compound, while throngs of press and anxious civilians roamed the adjacent streets. Angry legislators, prison officials, spokespeople for assorted tribal advocacy groups hurled vicious invective at each other, while a judge threatened contempt charges. International press coverage was riveted upon the city as passions rose widly…”
Baghdad this morning?
No, Los Angeles, amid the ongoing Paris Hilton saga.
parsleysage @ 37 says:
Sounds like it’s a disease. You should have seen the NASA IG (Robert Cobb) yesterday with his case of it. The total arrogance that “I’m right and everyone else is an idiot.” Senator Nelson (FL) and Rep Miller (NC) were not at all appreciative of his stupidity in challenging them.
yes — “I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!”
Greetings from a Winter Soldier.
Woodhall Hollow @ 29
On the inevitable test of the Addington doctrine before the Supremes. It won’t come up until next year, by which time it will be abundantly clear to Judges Thomas, Scalia Roberts and Alito, that the next President will be a Democrat, with the odds that said Democrat will be Hillary Clinton. I can’t imagine that this gang of Rethug rascals will for a minute support giving her dictatorial powers, even in principle. These guys project. And what they will be projecting is Payback Time.
Horrible commentary on our Supreme Judiciary. I can’t imagine writing this. But 12/6/2000 changed everything, as they say.
OT–
And Condi–via Bush–continues to revive the cold war with
theSoviets–Russia. After all, she’s a putative Russia “expert.” And here she’s added geometry and geography to her area of expertise.the only java working on my machinne this morning is refresh, so by hand;
finally some consequences
the president is comfortable with his “so what are you gonna do about it?
it’s crazy this guy has the nerve to say “abu torture hasn’t done anything wrong”…”why, he has my complete confidence”
time for the consequences and conyers needs to be more clear exactly what he is talking about
BobbyG @ 45
Good one, BobbyG. Funny, but very sad, all the “bread and circus” crowd gone berserk.
dakine01 @ 46
Sounds like it’s a disease. You should have seen the NASA IG (Robert Cobb) yesterday with his case of it. The total arrogance that “I’m right and everyone else is an idiot.” Senator Nelson (FL) and Rep Miller (NC) were not at all appreciative of his stupidity in challenging them.
They must be pod people or something. It’s amazing to me how many of that ilk BushCo managed to find to insert into
ourhis government.DreamingCrow @ 42
The key is to look at the MSM as your chance to do your own episodes of Mystery Science Theater 3000. The mistake is to look at them as news. They’re not.
The natives are getting restless.
snip
http://www.dailykos.com/
OT: MSNBC Breaking News Headline: SecDef Gates to Replace Pace…
Christy,
Right on!!!!
I am SO glad you cited Gore’s January 2006 speech– it is a real gem, one that deserves listening to again and again! I listened to it live, and have often referred to it.
Towards the end of the speech, Gore said something to the effect that Bush seems to be daring us to impeach him. And he closed with a number of strong recommendations that make even more sense now than they did then.
It is one of Gore’s best speeches, ever.
Bob in HI
DreamingCrow @ 43
I know. Don’t waste valuable air and energy. If they still support him at this point, the man could bust into their home, shoot their grandma and they’d holler, “Hey, grandpa’s in the room next door, in case you’re interested!”
dakine01 @ 55
Maybe Libby can write him a letter of recommendation
raven at 46 — I knew you’d get the reference. ;-)
I really count on this site. I knew there were others out there and it only felt like I was soloing. I appreciate light shed on the legal aspects from people who are knowledgeable in this area. I can’t get enough.
dakine01 @ 54
Whoa!
GatesPappy Bush is starting to exert a little control.Re Libby,
Scooter’s defense fund site still has no reaction to his sentencing. There are some links to half a dozen wingnut editorials calling for his pardon: WSJ, Victoria Toensing, etc. But the last frontpage note from Mel Sembler is dated June 1.
http://www.scooterlibby.com/
File under You-Can’t-Make-This-Up!
Via Raw Story:
EPU’D
christy-thanks again.
you have my admiration, and most of all my respect.
dakine–happy double-nickel……would post sarah mclachlan’s version of ‘ol fifty-five for you if i wasn’t on dial-up…have a happy ‘king for a day”!
Woodhall Hollow @ 62
Get ready to hear what a great fucking job he has done.
QuakerGirl @ 61
are quaker girls allowed to use teh internet tubeules?
Knut Wicksell @ 49
I think Woodhall Hollow is right, and also think that the two week delay helps to keep this whole drip, drip, drip perking right along, especially as DC moves into its summer season. Today it’s Conyers, tomorrow it’s Waxman, Leahy the next day, . . .
Fred Fielding has got to have one helluva headache from this DC Water Torture. Maybe that’s why he’s calling in reinforcements from his old law firm to join the WH Counsel’s staff. (h/t Josh Marshall and his TPM readers)
Mandrake @ 57
Exactly. Bah.
Sadly, I actually do know a fair number of people like this.
Hugh @ 54
Oh! Oh!! I want to be Tom Servo!! Please??
dakine01 @ 56
How did this get past the Paris Hilton circus?
dakine01 @ 45
Sounds like it’s a disease. You should have seen the NASA IG (Robert Cobb) yesterday with his case of it. The total arrogance that “I’m right and everyone else is an idiot.” Senator Nelson (FL) and Rep Miller (NC) were not at all appreciative of his stupidity in challenging them.
Luckily I missed that.
Woodhall Hollow: thanks for the response.
Woodhall Hollow @ 14
I’m convinced that Gore would have done much better in the 2000 election if he hadn’t been so rehearsed and overhandled. It’s when his natural spontaneity isn’t stifled that he’s at his best.
And, oh, surprise, surprise (any FDL lawyers looking for work? *g*):
I am so tired of this line from Democrats. How many times are they going to write an angry letter before sending subpoenas? Two weeks? Every day kids are dying while shrub, shooter, and speedy are lying and taking America for a joy ride. If there is one big lesson here, it is never, ever count on anyone but yourself. That means getting out in the street if that’s what it takes. These guys no longer get the benefit of the doubt with me. There is only one way that anyone in congress (except for Kucinich of course, who has done the right thing), to get any respect from me (and for that matter everyone in my family, and almost everyone I know), and that is to start impeaching all of these lying sacks. Never will a Dem get a vote from me again. I have registered Green the last 3 elections, but I actually voted for some Dems in ‘06 just because I felt it was the only way to help save our country. I was wrong. All of us that fell for that were wrong. I don’t trust anyone.
On that note, that includes Al Gore. I have been a huge supporter, but he took a huge step back for me a couple of weeks ago when he came out against impeachment. I just don’t get it. How can smart people look at this situation and not see that there is only one way to remedy our problems? Not only do we need to impeach to keep this power grab from becoming precedent, but impeachment is a constitutional mechanism. If wrongdoing is suspected (and in this case it is suspected in more places that you can even imagine) then an inquiry is in order. When people like Al Gore, or Nancy Pelosi push the tool of impeachment aside like that I have only one reaction; suspicion. There is no valid reason that impeachment should not be front and center. The reason it is not is all due to political consideration. It sickens me. It ought to sicken everyone.
We are around 18 months of inaction away from becoming a 3rd world country. As it stands now, we don’t have a democracy. Unless and until habeas corpus is restored, the Constitution means nothing. Maybe that just doesn’t sink in with most people. We are a truly ignorant country. Willingly ignorant of our heritage, and those that had the vision to set this system of government up, and ignorant of the document(s) that used to spell out our freedoms, and what we stood for and against.
Take a random sample of kids old enough to have been though US history class, and I bet that 9 out of 10 of them know more about american idol than they do about the Constitution, or the men who designed the government that we used to love.
One last thought (sorry for the rant), people complain about the Iraq war, a looming war with Iran, the destruction of civil liberties, the environment, the complain about war profiteering, war crimes, gas price gouging, natural disaster response, and on and on, but many of those same people don’t support impeachment. It’s insane. You can fix it all with impeachment. Stop the war in Iraq, prevent one with Iran, restore democracy and support the troops by impeaching bush and cheney now.
I loved Gore’s “How dare they” speech.
I’ve felt that Gore’s loss in 2000 was God, the Universe, or Karma sparing us and him having 9/11 happen on his watch.
Republicans would have blamed it all on the Democrats. We might have been in for an even longer reign of Republican terror when Gore was voted out in 2004. Gore would have taken personal responsiblity for this, and may have destroyed him.
So as bad as this 7 years has been, I think it’s not as bad as the wingnuts would have made it if Gore was running the country. At least now I have hope.
FISA amendments? Why won’t the Democratic leadership just say “NO” for the duration of this administration?
Any investigation into this administration’s current domestic spying will likely be stillborn because of administrative stoning. Congress should still rigorously investigate, however, as a prelude to fuller investigations later, as a signal of support to whistelblowers who may contemplate blowing, and to Mr. Cheney’s flying monkeys, to stoke their fear that their master might be less and less able to protect them and hide their wrongdoing.
This administration’s public record already makes abundantly clear that the USG has not responsibly used the power it has. If your teenage driver has a brace of DUI’s while driving the Prius, why give them the keys to the Ferrari?
spurious @ 73
I saw his speech entitled something like “constitutional crisis”
well, that was scripted but man it was the most moving speach I’ve seen since watching tapes of jfk
dakine01 @ 55
It may have been his talk about preserving his precious bodily fluids that crossed the line, or the Scooter letter, or any of the other times he did his loose cannon act.
Hugh @ 54
That’s an excellent idea! There is nothing funnier than just running those ridiculous clips together, back to back, of things Bush has said, and his Republicwhore supporters have said over the last few years. Just pick a subject to for each feature. You could start with Iraq and put in John Boehner bawling on the house floor, right after he says Iraq’s WMD’s were moved before we invaded.
Can I play Tom Servo?!
Biodun @ 74
I think it’s the work of the FDL lawyers that caused Fielding to expand his staff.
Breaking: Joint Chiefs Chairman Pace replaced.
Peterr at 82 — Gosh, I hope so. *g*
Peterr @ 68
Hugh @ 80
Or maybe not knowing that we passed the 3,000 mark of troop fatalities quite some time ago?
dmac @ 65
And thank you for the kind wishes and your polite smack-down of nameless persons last night…
CHS #83
FDL: Turning Neo-Cons into plain old Cons.
Or maybe not knowing that we passed the 3,000 mark of troop fatalities quite some time ago?
Nope, it’s about a retirement trigger!
At first I thought Gates himself was replacing Pace: taking his place. If that had been the case, it certainly wouldn’t have surprised me, given the labyrinth of morass this administration is tangled in.
TJ @ 75
You know, I have had exactly the same thought many times. Gore would’ve had a much more measured response, and the right-wing Politicians and media would’ve been braying “chicken,” “weak, “cowardly,” and “unpatriotic” (which they did anyway–but at least the dems can’t be held entirely responsible).
I do regret Nov 2 2004. That was a very very dark day.
Regarding Peter Pace, someone quoted the line about ‘rearranging chairs on the Titanic.’
perris @ 67
We’re the worldly ones. Oops! My bonnet slipped over my eyes!
dakine01 @ 45
Sounds like it’s a disease. You should have seen the NASA IG (Robert Cobb) yesterday with his case of it. The total arrogance that “I’m right and everyone else is an idiot.” Senator Nelson (FL) and Rep Miller (NC) were not at all appreciative of his stupidity in challenging them.
I would have loved to have caught the Cobb episode. There have been a lot of fun and games at NASA over the years. From my scandals list:
BTW I noticed that O’Keefe wrote a pro-Scooter letter.
Biodun @ 90
I think you actually have to be IN the military to be Chair of the JCS.
Wordsmith @ 71
Because Pace couldn’t count?
WooHoo…..I think it worked! (Unstalling & restalling Firefox. Or uninstall/reinstall)
ThinkProgress has an update about General Pace: http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..-replaced/
The WaPo has another front-page hyped OpEd about Paris, Hilton, not France, and a special “What Do You Think?” site.
What do I think? It has nothing whatever to do with a spoiled, multi-millionaire, sexually and socially reckless twit. When will “responsible” newspapers start asking questions that need answers?
RawStory again:
A member of President George W. Bush’s cabinet sought a private
meeting with Senator Craig Thomas of Wyoming on Thursday afternoon, according to a blog entry at the Washington Post. Thomas passed away on Monday night from complications related to leukemia.
Make your own joke.
Spurious @ 73:
You’re quoting Wood Hollow @ 14, not me @ 10! *g*
Rep. Conyers is playing right into the hands of the Republican strategy. Stall and delay. Now Conyers wants to give the DOJ 2 more weeks to respond? Conyers is well intentioned but sometimes he just seems clueless about the nature of who he is dealing with. The more time Leahy or Conyers gives the Republicans is just that much more time they have to coordinate their stories. Take off the gloves and go for the throat. The public demands it.
TJ @ 77
um, seeing how WELL things have gone since 9/11, that’s small comfort indeed.
and it doesn’t stop people like my brother, who should know better, from saying idiotic things like “bush had no responsibility for 9/11. 9/11 was clinton’s fault.”
it takes your breath away.
Bay State Librul @ 96
Gates couldn’t keep pace.
Woodhall Hollow @ 91
Fer Chrissake! Can we limit the news coverage of rich, spoiled, distressed blondes to five minutes per hour on the MSM!
How did this get past the Paris Hilton circus?
Because Pace couldn’t count?
It’s on the crawl on MSNBC but listening to these morons do the play by play of this skank’s re-arrest is worth the price of admission. They even have that idiot sheriff from Maricopa County on telling how he’d cuff the bitch!
Woodhall Hollow @ 89
Not to seem too crazy here, but I very much doubt an attack on the scale of 911 would have happen on a Gore watch. He took terrorism very seriously. Clinton, after all, foiled the Millenium bomb set for January 2000.
Hugh @ 80
Given the timing, I’m bettin’ on the support letter. Even without it being on official letterhead, that should be a no-no and with Daddy’s having been DCI and his statements about outing agents being treason, I think we’re seeing the response and blow-back.
Yummy. Had to share my lunch: fresh mozzarella, fresh basil from my herb garden, the first beefsteak tomatoes at the local produce stand, a drizzle of good extra virgin olive oil, and a sprinkle of sea salt. Mmmmmmmmm…
lemma @ 108
‘zactly, see perrisn@105
Christy Hardin Smith @ 110
You have good ‘maters up there already?
dmg @ 39
Amen. ‘Atrocity fatigue’ is exactly right. And just when you think this is all about the past, you find that this is not the case:
I just hope that when the next engineered catastrophe happens, even the bottom feeders will be skeptical, and not revert to ’supporting our president in time of crisis’.
raven @ 95:
I knew that…*g*
OfT:
Goodling attorney John Dowd flips support from McCain to Fred.
TradMed seems to be struggling to shed the “McCain = frontrunner” theme. Reporters are actively speaking with sources to find out what’s happening.
Biodun @ 114
Sorry, actually I thought the same thing the first time I saw it.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 110
Stinker! I have a peanutbutter and jelly sandwich I will eat in 2 hours!
perris @ 109
I’m slow – glad for the company – wish more folks would make this point
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 97
Oh yeah, I believe that. What a patriot! I will serve my country as long as it needs me or until my retirement benefits kick in. This is the kind of excuse that is given when someone is caught shtupping the staff.
AZ Matt @ 31
Well, halelujah for the gentleman from Virginia — I can be proud of my birth-state for producing this one!
Firepups, I say ye Jim Gilmore!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 110
Oh yes. Beautiful.
When summer is full-on, I will pick fresh lemon grass from my friend’s garden and grill some beef. There’s a lovely, simple recipe with garlic, fish sauce, sugar and lemongrass, and it won’t work with that woody stuff they sell at the supermarket.
Excuse the OT, but I love talking about food!
TJ @ 77
It never, repeat never, wouold have been approved by Gore unlike this present bunch of crooks and liars. If you think for one moment that they did not know about or let this happen you are sadly mistaken.
Damn I am bloody pissed again. And I have just mowed then lawn. Now what am I going to do for aggression?
Wordsmith @ 92
I hope it’s not even worse than that. Amassing all these admirals make me very nervous about
nukingbombing Iran. But I don’t see Gates as big on such an attack, am I wrong?On Pace’s firing. I think it has more to do with Iran than Libby. Pace was Cheney’s man. He’s also Air Force, which is the branch that is most gung ho for bombing the world back to before the Stone Age. There have been a lot of rumours percolating about Cheney’s efforts to end-run Gates and Rice with respect to the Iran gambit. One of them involved the Israeli’s making a pre-emptive strike, though this seems pretty far out given that Israel is still a Democracy. I think this is a pre-emptive move. It may be that Pace’s letter was simply an occasion for Gates to do what he wanted to do anyway.
Woodhall Hollow @ 91
You seem to forget that had Gore prevailed in 2000 there is a distinct possibility that 9/11 would have been avoided entirely. What do you think a President Gore would have done had he received a memo in August entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” Somehow I don’t think he would have spent that month clearing kudzu from his Tennessee home.
Gates/pace presser on cnn now…
btw way, Gates on Pace on CSPAN 1
dakine01 @ 9:57 am -
You’ve made a very good observation about the support letter – but is it possible that his retirement has been in the works for several months, based on speculation mentioned in a recent ThinkProgress post?
Knut Wicksell @ 124
Pace is a Jarhead not a flyboy.
Knut Wicksell @ 124
Actually Pace is a Marine. First Marine to be CJCS in fact
Knut Wicksell @ 124
Pace is Marine Corps.
Gates – Gen Michael G Mullen is probably replacement.
AZ Matt @ 117
I had some left over chicken…fried strips of course. Gotta maintain that 10W30 blood viscosity!
tomatoes!
Admiral Michael G. Mullen
CHS @ 110:
That’s on the menu at my popular local joint uptown, Figlio’s. (But I’m willing to bet their basil and ‘maters are not as fresh as yours…)
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 128
You may well be correct. Gates presser on right now…
nomolos @ 122
Ding ding ding. Incompetence or evil, can’t decide which. Wait, it’s both!
TJ @ 77
Sorry, I can’t buy this, if we had not been robbed of Gore in 2000 we very well may never have had a 9/11.
raven @ 129
Another reason why one should not comment from faulty memory. Thanks for the correction.
OT on RFK
tonight CSPAN 3
Gates – Pace deserves the deepest thanks of the murkin peeople. I love him, he’s the bestest dude eveah!!! I wanted to re-nominate him but those mean Dems wouldn’t like it.
Knut @ 10:02 am -
Isn’t General Pace a Marine Corps general? His predecessor, General Richard Myers, is a retired Air Force general.
Knut Wicksell @ 140
No biggie, I probably would have gotten in trouble for suggesting an Air Force General would have never made such blatant anit-gay remarks :)
nomolos @ 121
Visit the HHS Pandemic Flu Leadership Blog and let ‘er rip!
Bluetoe @ 125
i don’t think it would have gotten to august.
there were the military antiaircraft guns on the roof in italy during the g8 meeting that suymmer, based on terrorism fears. and of course, there was richard clarke, well regarded by the clinton white house.
they were all familiar with how terrorism works: during the millenium bomb incident, clinton was briefed EVERY DAY on where the investigation stood.
the only thing bush has ever been briefed daily on is how far away his next beer was.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 110
Already tomato(e)s. Jeeze I am envious. We had our first strawberries last night. Stood in the garden in the rain eating from the patch. If there was a god I bet she would have created gardens n the first day!
that space by Gore in 01/2006 sealed the deal for me: Al Gore v2.0* was here to stay.
Al Gore in 2008 – accept no substitutes!
.
*(new, improved, Lieberproofed – he slices, he dices)
Gates – this isn’t a “shake up”. events of last several months has created an environment has been created that would make for a long confirmation process – nothing to do w/ performance.
twolf1 @ 126
Jinx!
Biodun @ 135
Oooh, Biodun! Make me miss my old town…I LOVE Figlios! Try to go when I go back to visit.
twolf1 @ 142
twolf you are cracking me up.
OfT: more on Dowd’s changing allegiance
This is the only mention of torture, at the very end of the article. Doesn’t clarify whether Dowd thinks McCain is too pro-torture or too anti-torture for him to support.
What’s Fred’s torture stance? Being a teevee personality, does he go with the 24 approach?
Oops sorry TJ my rant sounded personal. I wasn’t meant to be and I appologise.
Gates “It’s the dems fault” At least he didn’t blame Clinton.
Wish dmoore and I good luck with Issa’s district director at 1:00!
raven @ 144
Pace is retiring due to retirement benefits…
maybe a golden banana parachute?
Loo Hoo. @ 156
Good Luck Loo….
dmg@146, agree completely. Gore knew full well the threat posed by Bin Laden. Bush’s Administration despite being warned in Jan. of 2000 that Bin Laden would be the greatest threat to Am. security turned a blinds eye because it was coming from the hated “Clinton” Adminstration. They either wanted something to happen so they could begin implementing the PNAC strategy or they were criminally negligent. Take your pick. Either one is worthy of impeachment but then the MSM was willing to give Bush a pass in the interest of “healing” the nation.
TeddySanFran @ 153
that’s a visual I can forego
Gates – Congresscritterz luvs them sum pace too — it was really more of an appraisal… did I mention that they hold him in the highest regard?
punaise @ 160
You’re killin me over here, gotta clean up the keyboard now!
gates presser over
Pace means peace in Italian, so he was clearly unfit for the job
Elliott @ 123
Whoa…are you ever asking the wrong person. I’d say ‘no’ you’re not wrong. I don’t see Gates as big on such an attack. After reading ‘Vice’ by Lou Dubose & Jake Bernstein, I’d like to find a way to rid this country of Cheney for good. He’s one evil shit….mean, nasty, lying prick. His wife and he are two peas in a pod with nasty children as well.
Elliott @ 123
Whoa…are you ever asking the wrong person. I’d say ‘no’ you’re not wrong. I don’t see Gates as big on such an attack. After reading ‘Vice’ by Lou Dubose & Jake Bernstein, I’d like to find a way to rid this country of Cheney for good. He’s one evil shit….mean, nasty, lying prick. His wife and he are two peas in a pod with nasty children as well.
Loo Hoo. @ 156
Great news! You will do really well. My advice — based on our meetings with Feinstein and Boxer staffs more than one year ago — is to try your best to stay focused. There’s so much to complain about (especially with Issa!!) but if you can keep your points to three (with underpinnings) the staffer will hear you much better. The more widespread the discussion becomes, the more diffuse the attention span of the staffer.
Good luck, and make us proud!
Full report here, later, I hope?
TeddySanFran @ 115
What I see is the horrifying notion that BushCo will be featuring the Republican candidate for 2008, Thompson.
twolf1 @ 163
Back to bimbo land, they are giving the numbers off the top of the squad cars, jesus you can;t make this up.
Did Gates say why Admiral Edmund Giambastiani the Vice Chairman of JCS was passed over in favor of the current Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Michael Mullen?
Good luck, LooHoo! Smite the Wicked!
Hugh @ 170
Because the MSM talking heads couldn’t pronounce it.
Wordsmith are you using both IE and Firefox at the sametime?
Hugh #170,
He said it was to avoid a divisive confirmation process. No details.
Well, Christy made my mouth water, but I’ll pass on the Parisfest.
I can only take so much acid stomach.
Loo Hoo. @ 156
LooHoo and dmoore: Please
kick some buttshow them the error of their ways. Thanks on behalf of all of us.raven @ 171
Teddy, good advice.
1. Occupation/Blackwater
2. Justice/Lam
3. Corporate-wealthy gains/middle-lower class losses.
OK?
One minute into their ananlysis of the Gates presser MSNBC broke away to live helicopter coverage of Paris Hilton. I kid you not!
old gold @ 179
Kris Jansing (sp) just creamed in her jeans because it was sooooo exciting.
Hugh @ 54
Bahahahaha! I want to be Tom Servo.
LooHoo—
And habeas corpus, very important!!
Loo Hoo. @ 156
the bestest of luck! We can’t wait to hear what transpires!
Really, I don’t see any sunshine.
They keep ignoring the subpoenas. Don’t turn over dick. It’s all missing or they just ignore it.
Count on the sensation created over the dribs that they do dish out to direct attention away from the fact that they are not turning over a mountain of incriminating crap.
When are they going to ENFORCE the subpoenas?
Bay State Librul @ 157
is one of those benefits a nice building lot down Paraguay Way?
egregious @ 182
Oy! Mustn’t forget.
Personally, I’ve had enough. Somebody ought to write a song.
And when is Rove gonna be hauled up before congress to explain why the dog ate his emails? Why he was deleting stuff even after he was told not to? After a grand jury probe began?
Where’s this great cosntitutional clash/crisis we’re supposed to see? I see Congress issuing subpoenas and then not doing anything else.
That’s not sunshine. It’s misdirection.
Great bunch of posts, it will take a while to read them.
OT:
Note sure if has been commented but the office of the “Independent” review/oversight at NASA has apparently commited serious crimes at NASA.
Not sure if anyone saw it but the commitie opened with astro Sen Bill Nelson (FL), and he laid the whole thing out.
Basically a repeat of the crimes at Justice. Maybe more in some areas, maybe less in others. I hope they also investigate that guy who was saying that “who is a human to determine what is the best climate for all of us”. Jon Stewart and the “gill people” as the low shore folks will be come to know (the IDP’s and refugee’s).
Elliott @ 168
You’re absolutely right. Thompson will be the Republican nominee. It’s clear that none of the current Republican candidates is firing any one’s imagination. Thompson on the other hand is that vacuous blank slate that appeals to all “wings” of the Republican Party. He can be what ever they want to see. He’s a movie star, straight shootin guy that appeals to the “common man.” The MSM is already in a swoon over a Thompson run. It’s up to the blogs to bring this right wing blowhard down because the MSM sure won’t.
Loo Hoo. @ 185
You rang?
Ohy, is Paris taking a sunbath out by the pool in jail?
Damn, wonder if they let out any single mothers that miss their kids, etc. etc.
twolf1 @ 83
Comment by FascismRising:
Is this a good sign or a bad sign?
My guess is Pace refused to support nuking Iran.
Is this a good sign or a bad sign?
He’d rather send the Marines.
Loo Hoo. @ 178
exilente! you go girls!
Biodun @ 101
Oops, sorry! Got tangled up in the blockquotes.
tommy yum, that’s great news about Esten!
Loo Hoo. @ 185
Somebody already did:
“Is anybody there?
Does anybody care?
Does anybody see what I see?”
Update: Paris Hilton is safe nomolos @ 173
No.
Update: Paris Hilton is safe
nomolos @ 173
No.
DreamingCrow @ 43
But you need to invest the time. We all do. To rail at people for being “divorced from reality” is unfair and unproductive. They are, in many cases, simply estranged. They may well even love reality, and want a reconciliation, but that isn’t possible when they are being spoon fed crap 24×7 and never hear a word of truth to contradict all the lies.
It isn’t hard, but it is important. When they parrot discredited talking points or spout obviously illogical nonsense, call them on it. Every time.
Make it easier for those that are simply confused from getting all their news from FOX, CNN, the Washington Post and so on (even NPR has pulled some doosies) to see that they are being misled.
Make it harder for those who are knowingly misleading others to continue. Make them think twice before trying to spread their bile in your neighborhood.
And make it clear to those that are just “going with the flow” that the blow hard that loudly proclaimed that Plame wasn’t covert or that women don’t need to go to college or that undocumented immigrants commit most of the nations crimes isn’t speaking for everyone.
The 10% of America that has discovered how to get the truth to each other has an obligation to the other 90% to share, every chance we get.
–MarkusQ
OT – House Progressive leaders sign on to Cheney impeachment motion
Christy says “I choose liberty. What say you?”
I say I’d like to see some sunshine on the yet unanswered questions regarding these brave American servicemen, crew members of the USS Liberty, who died 40 years ago today:
Cryptologic Tech 3rd Class William B. Allenbaugh, USN
Lt Cmdr. Philip M. Armstrong Jr., USN
Seaman Gary R. Blanchard, USN
Cryptologic Technician 2nd Class Allen M. Blue, NSA
Quartermaster 3rd Class Francis Brown, USN
Cryptologic Tech 2nd Class Ronnie J. Campbell, USN
Cryptologic Tech 2nd Class Jerry L. Converse, USN
Cryptologic Tech 2nd Class Robert B. Eisenberg, USN
Cryptologic Tech 2nd Class Jerry L. Goss, USN
Cryptologic Tech 1st Class Curtis L. Graves, USN
Cryptologic Tech Lawrence P. Hayden, USN
Cryptologic Tech 1st Class Warren Hersey, USN
Cryptologic Tech 3rd Class Alan Higgins, USN
Seaman Carl L. Hoar, USN
Cryptologic Tech 2nd Class Richard W. Keene, USN
Cryptologic Tech James L. Lenau, USN
Chief Cryptologic Tech Raymond E. Linn, USN
Cryptologic Tech 1st Class James M. Lupton, USN
Cryptologic Tech 3rd Class Duane R. Marggraf, USN
Cryptologic Tech David W. Marlborough, USN
Cryptologic Tech 2nd Class Anthony P. Mendle, USN
Cryptologic Tech Carl C. Nygren, USN
Lt. James C. Pierce, USN
Sgt. Jack Raper, U.S.M.C.
Cpl. Edward Rehmayer II, U.S.M.C.
Interior Comms Electrician David N. Skolak, USN
Cryptologic Tech 1st Class John C. Smith Jr, USN
Chief Cryptologic Tech Melvin D. Smith, USN
Postal Clerk 2nd Class John C. Spicher, USN
Gunner’s Mate 3rd Class Alexander N. Thompson, USN
Cryptologic Tech 3rd Class Thomas R. Thornton, USN
Cryptologic Tech 3rd Class Phillipe C. Tiedtke, USN
Lt. Stephen S. Toth, USN
Cryptologic Tech 1st Class Frederick J. Walton, USN
May we remember their sacrifice as long as our nation lives!
tommyyum, did you write it? It is such a hot song! Best wishes for you and Esten.
Loo Hoo. @ 201
Yeah, that was me. Just doin’ my bit.
Thanks for the kind words about Esten, gang. We’re playing “I Spy Fantasy” as I write this.
With all respect to the folks that think 9/11 wouldn’t have happened under Gore, have you considered that it’s even more likely that the corrupt Republican thugs would have contributed it to it happening if we had a Democrat for a president?
I wish there had been a way to stop it, but I think it was inevitable.
Ed*ard Teller @ 200
Daylight again, following me to bed
I think about a hundred years ago, how my fathers bled
I think I see a valley, covered with bones in blue
All the brave soldiers that cannot get older been askin’ after
you
Hear the past a callin’, from Ar- -megeddon’s side
When everyone’s talkin’ and noone is listenin’, how can we
decide?
(Do we) find the cost of freedom, buried in the ground
Mother earth will swallow you, lay your body down
Find the cost of freedom, buried in the ground
Mother earth will swallow you, lay your body down
(Find the cost of freedom buried in the ground)
For anyone interested in seeing the NASA IG hearing:
look at the bottom of page 1 or onto page 2
Leahy, Waxman, and Conyers may be slowly tightening the noose, day by day, but so are Cheney and Rove…in secret and with a bigger budget.
nomolos @ 122
Yeah, I hear you. I went outside to plant zukes and cukes after that, to do something constructive. Gah.
If there was any upside to sending so many of our family members to fight for a lie, it’s that the conservative movement is discredited. But I think I would trade the lives of those we’ve lost as Americans, Iraqis and Afghans for the relative peace and prosperity of a Gore administration in 2000. I cannot fathom for a second that 9/11 would have happened as it did on Gore’s watch.
I love CNSY or CSNY, doink…
dumbya @ 184
‘Cept it’s only missing until they decide they need it to screw someone (Hi Monica!) who called AGAG a felon.
AZ Matt @ 64
Who could have invented a better joke. Bedroom Acrobat, LOL.
Wordsmith @ 211
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
realworld @ 139
If Gore had been chosen President (in addition to being elected), the Republicans would have beaten him over the head with 9/11 until he was a bloody pulp. So, why dont we do the same? repeat realworld’s contention (which btw I agree with) everywhere from now until election day in Nov. 2008. Actually, let’s change that to “we never would have had a 9/11.”
Elliott @ 207
Watched it live yesterday but definetly worth a view if not seen before…
TOMMYYUM!!!
Subpoena already!!
NOW!!
Let’s get going. Stop pussyfooting around and GET BUSY!!
Elliott @ 203
This is an amazing hearing and really worth watching. Before Cobb took the job as IG, he was an Assistant Counsel to the Pres under Gonzales. And he plays by Gonzales rules.
I thought the committee did a fantastic job with this hearing…they were really well informed and brought out the truth of how this admin is corrupting every single federal agency–even NASA!
And interestingly, none of the gooper Senators even showed up.
TJ @ 205
It doesn’t matter if it wouldn’t have happened under Gore. It happened under Bush. If I was President, it wouldn’t have happened.
Anyway, there aren’t too many who blame Bush for 9/11, but I think everyone here would agree that it was what he did in reaction to it that is really the crime. Or I should say, what he did on the back of 9/11 and continues to do.
MarkusQ @ 198
In general, I agree, but there are truly some people who just won’t listen. The party line is the only truth.
::sigh::
At least I managed to get my mother to rethink a lot of things recently.
BREAKING NEWS
CNN briefly cuts away from Paris Hilton coverage. From Atrios
Edward Teller # 201,
Absolutely. Thank you. One of the darkest chapters in the history of the US military, and totally unknown to most people.
Video
Hottmitt is speakching on CSPAN now, WHAT A DIP!
MarkusQ
I have found George Lakoff’s “Don’t Think of an Elephant! Know Your Values and Frame The Debate” a great help in giving me the support and information I need to become a more effective advocate for progressive ideas. I am trying to become less obnoxious when I present my point of view. Actually, I am trying to become less obnoxious generally. :p)
laughing hysterically – did anyone else see Tommy Chung on MSNBC on the Paris adventure … gotta love that guy!
As there’s been some discussion of the military, I have to pass on something that happened to me recently.
On Memorial Day weekend, I watched a woman from the VFW auxilary try to get someone to make a donation for the poppy program. The person asked why in the world they would want to do such a thing . . . and then got in a car with a freaking yellow ribbon on the back.
Gah.
Loo Hoo. @ 156
which one of you is bringing the garlic? and who has the holy water?
GeorgeSimian @ 220
Thank you, GeorgeSimian, for that, which takes us back to the topic at hand.
The difference regardless of whether 9/11 happened on this president’s watch or another president’s watch is the manner in which they responded. Bush used 9/11 systematically as an excuse to turn his back on the Constitution, abusing our human, civil rights while reducing any respect the world had for us as a democracy to dust. Bush believes he is above the law, that whatever the president does is legal merely because the president does it. But those who govern do so only at our consent, under the laws this nation established as a social contract to seek a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty.
We do not consent any longer.
GeorgeSimian @ 220
George, I will grant you that almost anyone would have handled the aftermath better. But I don’t think you should underestimate the intense and heroic efforts of the intelligence community made in trying to get the information that would have stopped 9/11. That job is incredibly tough, and I don’t think that changing the head of state would change that.
This may be a bit OT, but has anyone checked out Glenn Greenwald’s latest post, about a report there are 39 people who have simply “disappeared,” some of them children aged 7-9? What in the hell is going on?
Dreaming Crow @226:
I think I’m going to cry. I couldn’t FIND a poppy-seller over Memorial Day Weekend — and I make a point to get a poppy whenever I see them.
Oh yeah put a yellow ribbon magnet on the car — like that does anything for anyone. Sheesh.
1,541 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hardin Smith and the firepup Patriots:
First off boss-lady, thanx for the post that calls us together behind the idea of a progressive democracy and the struggle to implement it. I am ,however, increasingly convinced that unless we irradicate the ideological antithesis to democracy, we are doomed to live out our dayz under an increasingly murderous fascist reality.
We will not get enough “sunshine” to bring the tyrants to justice because the justice system has been corrupted completely. Even if subpoenas are issued, they will not be enforced because of a kangaroo Supreme Court and even if the Supreme Court were to uphols the subpoenas, the unitary executive will simply ignore the ruling. After all, how many divisions does the Supreme Court or the Congress control?
I fear that the 1/3-1/3-1/3 politics of division is bein used to set up a third party movement that will allow for the permenant consolidation of corporate fascist rule. Just over the river from me, in Minnesota, a mental paraplegic, broken down professional wrestler named Jessie Ventura won the governorship of one of the most historically progressive states by takin’ advantage of the idea that “there’s not a dime’s worth of difference” between the established parties. The residual effect of that nightmare four years has been two terms for one of the most reactionary corporatists north of the Mason Dixon Line.
Today we see the corporate media tryin to cultivate a thrid party “anti-politics” movement that would ensure a weak executive with no military dependant on a corporately owned Congress.
I guess I just wanna say thanx for tryin’ ta keep our spirits up, Citizen Hardin Smith, but I’m afraid the Democratic majority we fought so hard to install has already sold out.
KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER…THERE WON’T BE ANY HEALTHCARE IN THE CAMPS!!
Bluetoe @ 189
he’s been in everyone’s living room. he’s lovable. they know him. it would be like voting for uncle Fred. what, me worry?
forgive me if you’ve seen this all ready
Sen. Whitehouse: Petraeus Has ‘Conflicting Loyalty,’ Independent Iraq Report Needed
Sheldon Whitehouse interview with Think Progress.
Thunderbird at 230 — Yes — Glenn’s piece is great. Hilzoy at Obsidian Wings has a great piece on it as well.
Christy … are they asking for the legal opinions discussed in that Ashcroft/Comey meeting before Ashcroft went to the hospital later that day?
TJ @ 204
Marvin Bush was in charge of World Trade Center Security. Jeb Bush signed the PNAC document, hoping for a “new Pearl Harbor”. And George Bush saw the first plane hit the North Tower on television. Except it was not televised, although the Naudet brothers filmed it.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news…..04-17.html
Poor Bush has the tummy flu but some don’t believe it.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/8/3436/22674
Brisingamen @ 231
I actually was out of town. I don’t think that I have ever seen one here in Seattle myself, sadly enough. I grew up doing the poppy thing every single year, though, so I try to find one where I am.
My 10 year-old was very conscientious about reading the handout that we received with our poppies. It was sweet.
I have to admit, I have a bit of a kneejerk reaction to those yellow ribbons now. 0 to rage in less than one second, you know.
blue e @ 236
My impression is that they’re looking at the legal opinions that are the underpinning for the entire warrantless wiretap program, but IANAL, and may be wrong on this one.
blue e at 236 — My understanding is that they are asking for any and all the legal opinions on this particular NSA program, including the ones that were initially used as justifications for starting down the illegal domestic surveillance outside of FISA’s purview path. All of them. Which would include anything produced by Libby and Addington in the Veep’s office, among others.
Thunderbird @ 229
it’s hard for me to believe we haven’t killed people torturing them, I wonder how many of these 39 are dead.
TJ @ 230
Huh? What are you trying to say, that the intell community wasn’t heard and wouldn’t have been heard by any administration??
We’re aware that the intelligence community had plenty of information on the plot that became 9/11; there were FOUR warnings issued by the FAA between early April and the first of July 2001 regarding a plot to hijack airliners. Richard Clarke has testified about the nature of the severity and the communications with this administration to warn them, including the Presidential Daily Briefing of August 6, 2001, that warned about bin Laden specifically.
GeorgeSimian’s point as well as that of a number of others is that virtually anybody would have done something, anything to intervene and stop this attack, but that this president did jack-diddly-squat.
Your original comment on this topic and at least one other claims that this attack would have happened on any watch. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this point, since there’s a very big difference in outcomes between doing jack and doing something.
Christy, I think Timmeh looks most like a big fat skin-splittin’ beefeater tomato, not to blow your lunch for you or anything.
Agh. I think I have to go plant something again before my blood pressure goes whacky…
How about some impatiens for the impatient? I have a lovely shade of pink waiting my ministrations.
let’s all wish Babs Bush a happy birthday…or not. this is working out rather well for her, isn’t it?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 239
And Abu, like his tortured thoughts on Habeus, will tell them that, yes you are entitled to ask, but we are not required to respond due to National security concerns.
Subpoena them to the point of asphyxiation.
Dreaming Crow @239:
Ditto — that and those damned “W” stickers. Not good for my blood pressure at all!
So far every generation of my mother’s and father’s family have had someone in military service. And my Dad was in the base Honor Guard while he was in the Air Force. What little I know of military honors was learned then.
We were lucky — none of ours were buried in Flanders field, and all the kin made it back from WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam.
New thread…
Fresh thready goodness for everyone.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 232
Six months ago, I believed in sunshine…
Not ANY MORE…
I hope I am proven wrong, but common sense
dictates that we are losing the poker game
to evil men (Bush, Cheney) who corrupt this
world with distortions, arrogance, and treason.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 232
Yes, there will – the nurses and docs will be in there with everyone else. You’ll get healthcare – just not with equipment, supplies and infrastructure – almost like the healthcare in Iraq now….
I second the thanks to all of the fine and wonderful treasures that are the Firedoglake writers – posters and commenters. This is the one place I come to read, be educated and drink in what’s possible, instead of the toxic soup of what is being fed to us by the DC insiders.
DreamingCrow @ 238
It’s all I can do to resist the urge to redistribute them around the parking lot.
Rayne @ 244
Rayne, I do think it would have happened on anyone’s watch. And I’ll agree to disagree.
I’m a huge FDL supporter and I didn’t mean to anger anyone. My experience with the intelligence community tells me that these folks work incredibly hard. They tried very hard to get the information to stop it.
1,541 DAYZ AND THRE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Rayne:
You are absolutely right!! The attack would NOT have come to fruition without the stealin’ of the 2000 election. We still have not accepted the fact that we live in a completely undemocratic…and dare I say, ANTI-democratic reality. And, sadly there’s no goin’ back to an idea that has never been allowed to germinate into reality.
KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER!!
Brisingamen @ 248
My generation of my family is the first in our memories, so far, that no one in my family has served in some branch of the armed services. I considered it as a way to get out of town, was heavily recruited after taking my ASVAB, and smartly chose that I would have some serious authority issues. :p
I was raised to respect my country and our soldiers. I still do, I just don’t have any respect for those in charge. Gah.
“Is anybody there?
Does anybody care?
Does anybody see what I see?”
what’s the name of the song, and who did it?
thanks…….
((((esten))))
1,541 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen TJ:
“…I do think it would have happened on anyone’s watch.”
And I will agree to disagree with that statement and call it bullshit.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T BRING THAT WEAK SHIT INTO MY HOUSE!!
twolf1 @ 201
Yeah, but they’re not trying to whip the caucus on this. I wish they would.
Bob in HI
TJ @ 254
WE know that. One need only read the 9/11 Timeline and see all the instances where the intelligence was there, this administration had been notified by the intelligence community both inside and outside this country.
And yet they did absolutely nothing.
I have a very hard time believing that any other administration would not have heeded the warnings from intel. Heck, there were areas that had been responding independently of the administration, like the FAA and its four warnings.
The bigger problem I see is that much of the intelligence was thwarted (Able Danger) when not ignored (Phoenix Memo), by elements within the government that were encouraged by Republican majority and a Republican administration. These elements must be remediated as soon as the next administration takes office, or 9/11 will happen again.
Brisingamen @ 240 – thank you
Christy Hardin Smith @ 241 – thank you, I’m sitting here with a printed out organizational DOJ chart trying to keep up with this story.
punaise @ 246 – god bless, I love your mind and heart
The Patriot Act showed up far too quickly not to have been considered and written before 911. The intelligence community was working hard to get the info to the B admin. Problem was the B admin was the aggressor. The fascist apparatus was well oiled and has taken full advantage of our country’s fear and ignorance.
What say I? I say big deal. Investigate, investigate, investigate and what do we get? Nothing. They merely, “Tsk tsk”, while shaking their heads slowly and with consciously posed gravity, then they shrug and say, “Hmpf. What are you gonna do?” And that is the extent of it. NOTHING happens. No amount of criminality is enough to induce real action. All we get is suggestions of a vote of ‘no confidence’ in Gonzales. No confidence?! Hell’s bells, this clown is imminently impeachable! There are too many general legal and constitutional violations falling out all over the place to keep track of and yet nothing ever comes of it. Just another headshake and another grave “tsk tsk”.
raven @ 213
B side of ‘Ohio’, BTW.
dmac @ 257
The song is titled “Is Anybody There?” and it is from the musical “1776 – Musical” and the character John Adams (played by William Daniels in the movie/and on Broadway) sings the song.
TJ @ 77
Likely, 9-11 wouldn’t have happened.
I don’t think Gore would have allowed Cheney’s energy group to threaten the Afghan Taliban with extinction (….blanket your country with bombs or dollars) rhetoric, which I believe, triggered the Taliban to go to a proven, in-country war leader to provide the “cover” for bin Laden to launch his troops.
I also think Gore has an eye for BS’ers and the cover-up of the run-up to 9-11(incompetant or otherwise) would have been minimized.
Yeah, it is all speculation now that many of the Taliban leaders have been killed and we cannot prove anything.
Still, the circumstances seem pretty well connected.
Bush wants dots. I’ll show him, dots.
“At the end of the day, it’s of keen interest to me to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of White House in handcuffs” .. Ambassador Joe Wilson.. Add Cheney and Bush to the list for war crimes and high treason for openers. In the Spirit of Captain Bligh’s removal by Fletcher Christian the malifisant is removed of command! Spinal transplants available here.
Al Gore would have made (and would make) a great American president.
Even though, in 2000, he had an albatross around his nexk by the name of Joe Lie-berman.
I almost didn’t vote for the Gore/Lie-berman Democratic ticket in 2000 for the simple reason that Lie-berman was chosen (by the DLC?) to be Al Gore’s running mate, but I knew that Bush and Cheney in the White House would be worse than anything We The People could imagine.
So, in 2000, I voted for Al Gore as President of the United States, but held my nose in regards to Lie-berman.
And if Al Gore were to choose to save our republic and run for the presidency again in 2008, I definitely would vote for him again, no matter who was his running mate, although this time around I would think that Democrats would be able to field someone a whole lot better (and saner) than Lie-berman.