The prosecution received a sound rejection from U.S. District Court Judge Marcia Cooke on Thursday, while using its key evidence, the taped conversations. FBI agent – John Kavanaugh – was reviewing the tapes and said the men were using words like “tourism” and “football” as code words for violence. Defense attorneys strongly objected. “In a ruling that frustrated prosecutors,” Vanessa Blum of the Sun-Sentinel wrote:
Kavanaugh, while permitted to use the words would not be allowed to provide his opinion of their overall meaning. The judge noted that the FBI agent who “does not speak Arabic and is testifying in court for the first time, did not have the experience to be considered an expert on Islamic concepts or Arabic communications.” .
The prosecution is continuing the phone call intercepts testimony – with the jury listening to roughly 120 calls between Adham Hjassoune and Kifah Jayyousi who are accused of conspiracy to “murder kidnap and maim.” The voice of the third alleged conspirator Jose Padilla, known to everyone but the jury as the “dirty bomber,” has yet to be heard.
One witness did appear, not on tape but live in the courtroom. A former volunteer for Jayyousi’s charity, “American World Wide Relief’ – 33year-old Jeremy Collins — testified that he had overheard conversations dealing with the purchase of two walkie-talkies ($2000) and two satellite phones ($43,000) for Chechnyans fighting Russians . According to the AP’s Curt Anderson, Collins characterized work at the charity as “chaos.” Collins added “There was no relief work. There seemed to be more fighting [within the charity office] than relief work.” Collins said Jauyousi churned out a radical newsletter which featured “theaters of jihad” and highlighted the trial and later conviction of the blind Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, now serving a life sentence for plotting to blow up
But Jayyousi’s attorney William Swor tried to cast a different portrait to counter the charity’s supposed links to violence. Swir asked Collins if it was not also possible to have “jihad of the heart … jihad with your checkbook, jihad with your pen?”
“Yes,” he answered.”In all the years that you knew Kifah Jayyousi, he always emphasized doing things legally, right?” Swor asked.
“Correct,” Jeremy Collins answered.
The A.P.’s Anderson noted the strange disconnect between Jayyousi and his alleged co-conspirator Padilla.
Jayyousi had never encountered Padilla before they met in court. Padilla was added to the Miami case in late 2005 amid a legal battle over the extent of the president’s wartime powers to detain U.S. citizens.
It is very likely that this tedious testimony became more relevant for the jurors when they looked at their weekend news (news the jurors were permitted to see.) Here was another case of a conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim. Federal prosecutors in New York Saturday charged one former member of the Guyamese parliament and three other men, including a former airport employee, with planning to blow up terminal buildings at John F. Kennedy Airport, fuel tanks and the fuel pipeline that runs beneath the airport complex.
While there was no direct link to al Qaeda, U.S. Attorney Roslynn Mauskoph described the alleged secret plan as “one of the most chilling plots imaginable,” one which, according to another government law-enforcement officer, might have caused “unthinkable” devastation, so vast that the Chicago Tribune described one law man as having “cringed” when he contemplated the possible tragedy.
Tough stuff. But then, perhaps because the Tribune may have learned something from being a willing Justice Department mirror-machine as it bought into the dirty bomb-exploding high-rise coverage of Padilla, they immediately backed off the incendiary remarks of U.S. Attorney Mauskoph even in the story’s headline –“Alleged plot talk hyped, some say” which had the immediate effect of downgrading the accusations.
To be fair to Masukoph, she was well within the boundaries set by the Bush Justice Department ethical standards of making outrageous prejudicial statements about people who, they assume, are guilty. Hell, who needs trials, when you have Guantanamo and Naval brigs?
But the Trib went on to kick the crap out of the story.
“I think her [U.S. Attorney Roslynn Mauskoph] comments were over the top,” said Michael Greenberger, director of the Center for Health and Homeland Security at the University of Maryland. “It was a totally overstated characterization.”
And
Terrorism expert Peter Bergen said he believes law enforcement officials are right to pursue such plotters, even though he wouldn’t rate this case, or most of the recent homegrown plots, as serious threats.
“Obviously they’re talking about stuff,” he said. “But did they have the capabilities or training to do it? The answer is obviously not. It seems to me the reason the London [transit] plot worked is these guys had gone to an Al Qaeda training camp.”
Even Fox News (miracle of miracles) smelled bullshit and said it was. “JFK Terror Plot Called Technology (sic) Impossible By Critics.
Half baked, and technologically impossible.That’s what the representatives of Buckeye Pipeline had to say about the plot to blow up the pipelines and fuel tanks in and around JFK airport. I’ve had a couple of really interesting conversations with the people of Buckeye and the Port Authority of New York/New Jersey, that give a better explanation of why the scheme to plant explosives and carry it out would have been hard to pull off.
The media reaction to the JFK fuel tank scare is, to this long time media watcher, a healthy sign. Six years ago after 9/11 we may be learning the difference between vigilance and hysteria. Will it be too late to offer justice to Jose Padilla? Stay tuned.
(With Rachel M. Koch)
Lew can be reached at lew dot koch at gmail dot com.
Related posts:
- Terrorist Attack in Europe Involving 400-lb. Car Bomb Fails to Capture Right-Wing’s Imagination
- Some Alleged 9/11 Plotters to be Tried in SDNY, Storehouse of Evidence Untainted by Torture
- Senator Bond, Whatever Happened to “Show Me”?
- Zazi dans le WaPo: DOJ Feeds Press Still More Justifications for PATRIOT
- What If Civilian Trials Prove Torture Wasn’t Necessary?





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Eighteen more months of this shit… I can’t take it. I just can’t.
Koch!
hi lew!
hi rachel!
Have folks read this?
Pace replaced by Gates
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0608.html
On the Clock at 1
Just think of some of the headlines you’ll be seeing these next eighteen month
TeddySanFran at 2
Good to be here
This is huge! Israel offering Syria Golan Heights back for peace. Yes Yes Yes
http://www.reuters.com/article…..LEFEATURE_
Hey Lew,
So…any word yet on the transcripts?
Also, is anyone from pros side going to be offered up as a “code” expert, if not Kavanaugh. It seems to be if they are asserting some Piggle Wiggle/ESPN Ameri-Arab speak, someone must have a decoder ring and notebook to submit as evidence besides just the tapes and someone’s guess. Anything in the wind on this?
Or just the agents who listened to the tapes to nab the plotters?
Finally, even though the right wing Presidential candidates are still harping on Terra, Terra, Terra.
It must be terrible to live in the constant fear of the unknown, and improbable.
I know I don’t.
kathleen @ 5
Whoa! Now that is a friday dump I never expected to see.
And Lew–thanks so very much for these updates. It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out in the end. But thankfully, this is finally happening in an open courtroom. The judge HAD to rule as she did, if she didn’t want a potential conviction to be thrown out on appeal.
Hi Lew, Just about to read your post. Please excuse Kathleens lack of manners. She constantly goes off topic with no respect for fine posts such as yours.
do-si-do at 6
I’ll be getting transcripts every day starting Monday. I’m not sure how insightful they will be but I’ll give it my best shot.
Look this is Kavanaugh’s first big case. (I wish someone would give a novelist’s description.)
But anyone who doesn’t think these guys were up to something is smoking hash. Of course they werem just like the guys who talked about bombing Sears Tower were up to something.
But hard evidence? You’d have seen leaks about that before now if it existed.
Lew and Rachel, thanks for your very good work on this very ominous story.
OK, I just clicked through and read Blum’s article…how bizarre that Hassoun’s wife is saying, hey, he knew not to talk about “sensitive” matters on the phone, but he did anyway.
I guess I would be frustrated too if I was denied an opportunity to discuss the significance of the tapes. But I think if the pros does a proper job, they can find the right way to get it in. Just sayin’.
Sounds like the War of Error is moving along.
One last comment and I have to move along…I love the reference in your title, Lew. Chicken Little does need the threat of the sky falling in order to command so much attention.
Thank you again for your updates!
do-si-do at 12
I’ve covered a fair amount of trails in 40 years and the folks at Padilla is the single best gathering of journos I’ve seen in a long long time. They are working their asses off in less than an ideal situation. Judge Cooke (who I think is scared of this, her first really big case) is way too uptight. Still, people reading the papers are getting the story. The JFK Terrorists story was bought by the Washington Post hook, line and sinker.
Lew,
Any chance the code words were codes for snark or is the prosecution just having trouble presenting data.
tw3k at 16
I used this quote before but one person observing the trial said the prosecution is going to throw EVERYTHING they have at the jury. If one or more things stick, they’re hash. And this is no easy task for the defense in this climate. These three could easily be convicted on “suspicion” because as you and I know, these guys weren’t playing jacks.
“Many papers oppose Libby pardon”
http://rawstory.com/showoutart…..20_pf.html
Hey Lew!
So how much do we know about these guys? Some Islamic charities got hauled in just for being supporters of legitimate Islamic causes … are these guys in that category or are were they really plotting something?
The thing that gets me with this guy, Padilla, is the time and money the Fed has spent him. The Fed could have intervened much earlier with CBT and ended up with healthy individual with the ability to contribute to our society.
kathleen at 18
I guess I’m going to have to re-read my post. I thought that I had left that part about the Libby pardon out.
Suin at 19
These guys especially Hassosun, were true believers. He worked at his charity day and night, but found time to get Padilla a job when he needed one, found him a mosque, arranged for schooling in Arabic, and helped with Padilla’s trip to the Middle East. Bottom line: Hassoun was probably up to his eye balls in sucking as much money and people out for radical Islamic causes. How effective could they have possible been, when the FBI was onto them years before 9/11. Remember those 300,000 taped conversations. If anything started to look like it was getting warm (not hot) the Feds would have moved on them in a New York minute.
tw3k at 20
In a previous column, I estimated, conservatively and not factoring in the cost of Padilla’s 3 1/2 year stay in the Naval brig, at $20 million, give or take a couple of thousand.
Poor Gerstein…His crayons spilled all over the floor and he got his notes mixed up…
Just read the last paragraph quick before they fix it…
Oh the irony…!
Linky poo…
Understood Lew … I’m just always curious about the definition of muslim extremists, etc … after all, we loved them when they were the mujahadeen fighting Russia in Afghanistan etc …
Some little OT : Dubya caught with a near beer.
http://www.americablog.com/200…..again.html
Instead of discussing the exact amount of alcohol, i want to note a little fact : That’s not a german brew. So it got supplied for him beforehand, because he drinks this stuff regularly. Scratch the “dry” in dry drunk…
Lew Koch @ 22
this does not seem like a very efficient use of law enforcement and security resources.
i’m getting tired of saying it – immoral and stupid.
Siun at 25
The mujahadeen stashed a great many weapons for use against us. They remembered what war criminal Henry Kissinger forgot — what goes around comes around.
Gerstein’s Last Paragraph…(Libby on the brain syndrome.)
Tee hee…
“~}
kathleen @ 5
Takes my breath away!
kathleen @ 5
You had me going until I got to the part about Bush playing a key role.
Then I just said, “awwww, [insert mispelled name of English clothing manufacturer].”
prostratedragon @ 30
I saw a bumper sticker today;”Save the World: Stop US Aid to Israel!”, made me chuckle in remorse!!! *g*
were all things to be fair(a likely scenario) the disgrace that wuold occur in the eyes of the world would be monumental! When even the gooper press and the gooper media are willing to publically deny the validity of these cases the stench of political need and the lack of concern for human rights is so prevalent as to negate in the eyes to the world any semblence of the historic human rights leadership that this once great country has stood for.
Never again will this country be able to project concern for the horrors that others in the world are experiencing without having to swallow the vitriol that the world will ram down our throats. And, we will deserve it. Just look at the record.
Padilla is an innocent who has been destroyed for the cause of bush greed.The Florida “bombers” and the JFK “plotters” and the other apparant innocent fools that have been charged in these so called plots are all just throw aways as the criminal families scramble to retain whatever they can of their failing reign!
May they rot in hell- they and their spawn. It is the greatest tragedy in the history of this country. And it is the brave souls that are trying their damndest to keep the facts coming!
Bravo!
… Because they are only not allowed news specifically related to this trial? Wow.
Eureka Springs @ 9
Hogwash! I often respond to what the article is about. Sorry to say that I read articles from many sources and angles. I always appreciate when someone shares other insights. Sorry you have such a problem with that.
Thanks for the update Lew. I hope we are seeing the scales fall from the eyes of that professional journalists in this country. I’m hoping the lessons learned from the Libby situation will recharge some bullsh*t detectors, so to speak.
selise @ 27
yup, immoral and stupid doesn’t even begin to express it properly :/
Lew Koch @ 15
Oh, I trust the journos are good and paying close attention under trying circumstances. I’m not questioning their abilities or anything in my previous post.
I was drawing attn to the fact that a defendent’s wife would say “hey he should not have done that.” I am not questioning the fact she said it. I just thought it was weird vs. not saying anything at all.
So anyone know what is the difference between a homegrown gang planning to do damage to a big building and “terrorists” planning to do same? what i mean to ask is, when it is “terrorism-related” and when is it just conspiracy? I hope this Q makes sense…
Kathleen … our discussions often wander in many directions, but it really does seem impolite to launch into a completely different topic in comment #3 esp when it is news from this morning and has already come up multiple times.
Trading Golan for peace seems like a good swap…
tw3k @ 16
That’s funny because years and years ago when my husband and i were in a restaurant in France, it was pretty cozy and a local couple decided to eavesdrop on us to practice their English. It was OK at first but then became intrusive, so we switched to baseball slang to see if they could keep up…
Siun @ 39
They do often wander in many directions. How impolite is it to ask if folks have seen an article? Not so impolite in my book
do-si-do … I think that’s an interesting question.
I keep thinking of the Noraid days when many people funded violent opposition to the british occupation of Northern Ireland …
neokneme @ 40
Great News…. hope it happens.
Jayyousi had never encountered Padilla before they met in court.
Hassosun,…found time to get Padilla a job when he needed one, found him a mosque, arranged for schooling in Arabic, and helped with Padilla’s trip to the Middle East.
Confusing. Now I’d like to see the indictment. This “conspiracy” doesn’t seem to chart out as a triangle – more like an “L”, with one extra long leg (if that makes any sense at all).
Most of my comments btw are off topic.
Anyway, I’m curious. It would seem like the prosecution is going for its version of jury nullification wrt Padilla. What is the likelihood of that being sustained on appeal?
do-si-do @ 41
heh, sounds like you had fun! :) Did you play who is on first?
Siun @ 43
I suppose having a lawyer and the right to hear charges can help sort that all out, eh? But still, any legal eagles that can speak to what charges a pros would decide are terror vs. ordinary local crime? Is it coordination across state lines, international, something like that?
Lew, thanks again, for another informative update!!! It seems the Prosecution’s case is eroding under the withering glare of public scrutiny!!! A small victory for the Rule of Law!!! :-)
tw3k @ 47
and yogi berra: it’s so crowded no one comes here anymore…
;)
Kathleen – I believe you posted the same links in an earlier thread … we got the message.
Ignoring a post and trying to get folks to just discuss what *you* want is not my idea of good manners.
Thanks Lew.
I am reading all these posts late at night/early in the morning in Saint-Petersburg. I really value all the work you and Rachel are doing on this trial.
If no other prosecution shows the bankruptcy of this administration’s attempts at creating a police state with little fear of oversight, it’s the treatment Padilla has received.
I already communicated with you my feelings re: the USG using these detainees for mind control experiments in violation of Nuremberg Principles. I think they’re also running workdhops on how to do away with the rule of law in plain sight. How else can we account for what they’ve attempted and so far gotten away with?
A question I keep fielding from younbg people in Russia is how come we don’t get rid of the government if everyone knows that it is violating the constitution. Believe it or not, many of the people here equate the AH in the WH with the general trend in American thought, especially with the resurrection of cold war rhetoric on both sides.
When I explain to them that our elections have become kind of like Politburo elections under the old regime here many of them don’t get the connection. They have been so embued with their version of democracy that for them to hear that the US=CCCP under Brezhnev creates a lot of confusion, even cognitive dissonance. They need to believe that the US is still the lighthouse of democracy which I feel personally as a huge responsibility.
Once again, thank you so much. Saul Alinsky is smiling somewhere as he organizes ad infinitum.
kathleen @ 5
IMHO
Sorry, but I believe this will go nowhere and may in fact be a gambit toward creating a pretext for some manner of Israeli belligerence (possibly against Iran).
Israel is attaching what look to me to be Herculean stipulations to the offer. Breaking all ties with Iran and multiple “militant groups”? I don’t see how Syria can unequivocally accede to such demands. Assuming it fails to jump through Ohlmert’s hoops, Israel will again get to play the aggrieved peacemaker, providing another talk point for Alan Dershowitz’s arsenal of dissemblings.
And to what end? Possibly to provide a further pretext for an attack on Iran, which Israel (and its Cheneyite allies) can portray as attempting to consolidate deadly alliances with Assad and other assorted putative hot nasties throughout the region.
I hope I’m wrong, but we’ll see. And I’m concerned that this may be of a piece with the shakeup in the Joint Chiefs, where the last vestiges of restraint against an attack on Iran may finally be crumbling, as horrific as Peter Pace may otherwise be, most of the time (pace John Ashcroft on his sickbed).
But meanwhile, shifting gears, thanks so much, Lew, for your steadfast coverage of this travesty of justice.
CTuttle at 49
You ALWAYS get it. Thanks
Sorry, Siun, if I’ve helped steer the thread further OT. The Reuters story was news to me. I can’t read all threads all day.
Siun @ 51
TWEET! OK To your corners, you two. (Personally, I wait a few comments for going O/T, but I’m shy like that.)
I was going to wait for a Cheney post before linking, but perhaps you would both enjoy this. Have a laugh and forget about it. TGIF!
a modest retort
James @ 52 re your 4th paragraph…
My own kids are asking me why we can’t fire the AH…I’m stumped. And yes, the cold war saber rattling is just too alarming. What, were we all bored with being the most properous nation in the world? I don’t think so, given the same fixation on celeb news.
Great work Rachel and Lew.
I spoke with Darrell Issa’s district director and asked about the congressman’s thoughts about Habeas Corpus. The director didn’t know, but said that at least in Gitmo, the people are nothing but a bunch of terrorists. I asked how he knew that, when there had been no trials, and apparently there was just some sort of ozmosis. It is one of the questions he will be asking Issa about, and will report back to me.
Lew Koch @ 54
You’re too gracious, it’s your reporting, and the likes of the Lake that keep ‘We the People’ informed and relevant!!! Mahalo Nui Loa (Thank You Very Much)!!! :-)
Lew: Any idea where I can get a look at the indictment?
A conspiracy conviction requires proof of
a) an agreement between two or more persons to commit an unlawful act, and
b) an “overt act’ in furtherance of the unalwful act.
As you’re describing things, Padilla evidently didn’t even know one of the persons he’s accused of conspiring with (?), so it appears that evidence of an agreement can’t be produced.
And as to the one he did know, I see an overt act, a trip to the Middle East, but not necessarily proof of an unlawful purpose.
Help me out here?
do-si-do @ 56
707!
Ralphbon … thought your analysis was precisely right.
My objection to Kathleen is the immediate shift to OT before folks have had a chance to read and discuss the actual post. It’s something those of us who put the time and effort into researching and writing posts for FDL at times find rather disheartening.
James at 53
You really nailed it. I had an uncle who was a prosecutor at Nuremberg. I’ve been reading some history about that, in between reads of a couple of dozen other books. What stands out are two that I thought I would never ever read: First is The Torture Papers — The Road to Abu Ghraib, 1240 pages and a companion book, The Torture Debate in America, The first book is the actual United States of American government documents — actually discussing what techniques of torture can be used. The second is an fine collection of thoughtful articles by serious academics.
What is missing for me (and both are powerful, powerful books,) is the outrage that an Alinsky would have brought. That the torture discussion could actually be taking place in this country astounds me and makes me want to weep.
billjpa @ 33
I certainly concur in your cheer to the real reporters. And I agree that we are currently witnessing a new low in systematic torture and attempts to strip citizens of their rights such as I, for one, had hoped not to live to see in this country.
But as for how great a departure these events are from our history, l would like to point out that these plug-nickle “terrorist” gangs have been reminding me of nothing so much as the Scottsboro boys case (also here), in which one group of (black) young men who might or might not have been involved in a scuffle with another group of (white) young men, wound up in jail, fearful for their lives for several years, and left with prospects even worse than their admittedly dicey chances before all the trouble began.
Compared to the present day, the circumstances under which the Scottsboro boys were first arrested and imprisoned seem artless and almost naive. But the failure of the justice system to which they were then subject, and its determination almost to the end to use them in support of a prevailing order, were similar to what we see now.
do-si-do @ 57
Hi. I don’t know how old your kids are but isn’t it terrible that no one below a certain age understands just how far down the road to a totalitarian state we have gone?
As I understand it civics education is pretty much nil in the schools now.
There is a bright spot, I guess. People in the former Soviet bloc countries, young people, are so much better informed not only about their own governments but about ours. While our neo-cons bad mouth old Europe, there’s a lot the people in these old dictatorships could teach us about civic responsibility.
The scary thing though is that a large number of people in Russia are willing to let Putin have a third term in contravention of the constitution. They explain it to me as “We’ve always had an authoritarian style of government going back to the tzars. Don’t try to impose your democracy on us.”
they’re comfortable with a certain degree of paternalism.
Two points:
1) Anti-terror legislation, or emergency powers legislation, or “offenses against the state” legislation – pick your term, I perfer OAS as that’s the term used over here.
Anyway OAS legislation always “creeps” IOW it invariably is used for minor cases and then gets expanded to cases beyond its original remit.
2) OAS legislation in the hands of amateurs and in an atmosphere of hysteria is a very dangerous thing indeed.
MfI … nodding … that’s my concern with all these charges. It’s not clear to me that the US has an interest in preventing say the support of Chechnyan forces? but it makes a convenient cover to hype the fear 24/7 mindset that Bushco needs.
do-si-do @ 41
As an exchange student in Germany years ago, I was at a party when someone put on Meatloaf’s “Paradise by the Dashboard Lights.” The girl I was dancing with asked if I could translate it. I did pretty well, until the song got to the baseball metaphors.
First I had to translate the English into German, then explain baseball, then explain the sexual innuendo of baseball imagery in the context of the song . . . and by then we were both laughing so hard I never finished the translation.
Under the best of circumstances, dealing with translation and language issues in a trial is very difficult on everyone involved — judge, lawyers, witnesses, and jurors. When that gets added on to the huge legal issues at play here . . . let’s just say that the jury and the judge are in my prayers.
Thanks Lew, for your attention to this very important case. Seems there’s some spine in some of the media after all.
And:
Sounds like “jury tampering” (or as Senator Whitehouse would say, obstruction of justice) to me.
Lew Koch @ 63
IIRC, Chris Dodd’s father was also a Nuremburg prosecutor. You guys ever get together and compare family stories?
james @ 65
The “conservatives” began to gut education (and respect for it) in the 70s. They have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.
Now they are gutting a respect for the concept of the rule of law. I have always had a healthy skepticism for the police and the courts in this country–there has been a lot of abuse. But I never mistrusted the ability of the system to be “good.” This is changing. Very quickly, I am afraid. I think of this in particular when I look at the ages of those who have been doing the dirty work in the DoJ (Goodling, Sampson, Sholzman and god knows how many others like them) — they really don’t have any respect for the idea that there can be no truly civil society unless every citizen has access to a court that is governed by laws, not by people.
It is really heartbreaking.
The move against the ELF and “offenses against the corpration” is an example of creeping definitions of terror.
Thanks for the information, Lew.
I look forward to the next update.
Just so many people- seems like the entire earth- suffering from this administration to one degree or another. Now that I’m an ‘elder’ teaching younger people the fine points of accountability and diligence (in research field) , I wonder if this discipline is fading away. Well, at least we can try.
re my 68
Something screwed up when I tried to snip out the middle comments, and I couldn’t go back to edit. The first paragraph @ 68 is do-si-do’s, and the rest is mine.
I’d be more worried about their support of the MEK but your point is a good one. At present they seem they seem to be operating on the basis of my enemy’s enemy is my friend.
Edit Added in repsonse to: tw3k says June 8th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
Yes and some of the definitions are hilarious if i send you enough nasty faxes and your ink runs out that was proposed to be a “terrorist act”
markfromireland @ 66
Hey! Hello from a long-time admirer. Great to “see” you.
Jayt at 60
Please email me and I’ll send you the URL for the indictment.
But please remember this. The US Attorney is entitled to indict a rock, an ice cream cone, a jock strap. Padilla did know Hassoun, he did interact with his. Hassoun and Jayyosi were already indicted as a pair. When it was obvious to the Justice Department that the Supreme Court was going to release Padilla, they dropped the alleged blowing-up-high-rise-apartment buildings charge (which they could never bring to trial – even Comey admitted that at his news conference — the “confession” had been obtained illegally, if memory serves Comey said more politely that it had beem obtained without a lawyer being present) — it was only then the Justice Department acted like Chicagoans: they changed the rules in the middle of the game.
I see Padilla’s trip to the Middle East as a near-psychotic episode he made, in a long list of psychotic episodes. From his first murder at 15, this was a young man without a value system. His conversation gave him a system but it was a system of violence.
I believe Padilla should have been, and should be confined. But it has to be within THE LAW!
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights have been torn up before our very eyes. Hell, I remember when some college president or politician would have been able to “bring out” thousands of people in protest. The question it seems to me, is why people have been so inactive and I think the reason is, they’re afraid, afraid of raising their voices in support of the very basic laws that make this nation great. George Bush and his people have trampled the flag and what it stands for in the name of security and I say, fuck that and the people who have supported those illegalities.
Loo Hoo. @ 58
Congratulations, LooHoo, on your meeting today. The next step is to maintain the dialogue with staffers, as our ‘pups in Boston have done with Kerry’s office.
newtonusr @ 69
If there’s Jury Tampering, its caused solely by the DoJ, in that, their ham-fisted terror prosecution tactics are being exposed for the fraudulent farce it has been since 9/11!!!
Thanks Jacrat but who’re really admirable are the people who write on my site. I’m mostly just the enabler :-)
WH at 71,
I’m pretty shocked, myself, at how quickly the protections I took for granted are evaporating before our very eyes. I never thought anything like this could happen in my lifetime. War, perhaps, but not the dismantling of our very foundation of government. Freaky, freaky stuff and I never thought I’d be posting on a political blog. But it’s one of my only ways of coping with it.
I looked around at the people at a track meet a few weeks ago, wondering “do these people know?” I felt like someone important had died and no one knew my grief. The parent sitting next to me was reading Jack welch’s “Winning”.
:(
Lew Koch @ 77 sums it up…
darkblack puts a face on it…
tw3k @ 72
excellent point.
burning 3 SUVs is a crime, but terrorism worth a 22 year sentence? (Jeff Luers)
markfromireland @ 75
707!
neokneme at 82
Indeed.
do-si-do at 81
Sometimes I have that exact same feeling. Why aren’t people putting down their papers or leaving their television sets and shouting, “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore.” and then hit the streets and make a scene and thing have the tv cameras come out and the print folks and have them cover that outbreak, which would give more people the idea
that they won’t DIE if they protest. They might even live a better life.
CTuttle @ 79
Agreed. BTW, who permitted this jury to see, or showed this jury, the news from the JFK “plot”, and what statute would cover that?
selise @ 83
good quote from Jeff:
It is my belief that the oppression of people is rooted in the oppression and exploitation of nature. A fundamental disrespect for life that began with the conquest of Mother Nature and has lead to the conquest of humankind.
Thanks for the excellent reporting. Call me old-fashioned, but if it’s part of the prosecution’s case that “football” and “tourism” were being used as code words, wouldn’t they normally be expected to produce some evidence to that effect? Maybe it’s true, I’m sure genuine terrorists use code words. It hardly sounds to me like a stretch to require the prosecution to provide some evidence to support their claims, but who knows, maybe I’m living in the past …
do-si-do @ 81,
That’s just how I feel. So sad.
newtonusr at 86
The judge has asked the jury to refrain from watching or reading any stories about the case.
This was just an example of sly jury tampering. If the press just used the words of the New York US Attorney, it couldn’t help but have an impact on them, just as the Miami cab driver knew instantly who was I was talking about Padilla — “The dirty bomber!” he exclaimed.
tw3k – very interesting point.
Have you read Susan Griffin’s Woman and Nature (off to check the title)
do-si-do @ 81
One quick way of finding out if the people around you “know” is to wear an IMPEACH BUSH/CHENEY t-shirt at sports events. It’s a great conversation starter and it quickly identifies the future brownshirts in your community.
Siun @ 91
No, but it sounds like a good read. My book budget is zed right now so I’ve pretty much been sticking to old classics.
Lew Koch @ 90
Right! And reread for us the composition of this jury again? Frightened Patriots, all.
Sly (or sloppy) attempt aside, how does this kind of action change the landscape wrt appeals?
How horribly interesting that environmental terrorism is seen as more dangerous than the skinhead possibilities.
And how do we remove personhood from corporations?
james @ 92
707! OMG, sad but true.
DrenchedOtter at 88
You’re old fashioned You want truth, not innuendo. Whadda ya? One of those pinko, anti-McCarthy types? Evidence? You’re beginning to sound like those — you know — those people who read firedoglake. Gotta do something about that. Badges? Who needs that when you can break and peek. Who needs the 4th Amendment? More billions for missile defense, more troops, more…ahhhh what the hell
tw3k – used copies
it’s an old book (1979) but a very interesting view and so well written … definitely a connect with your thoughts above
IMPEACH BUSH/CHENEY t-shirts
&
Re-elect GORE in ‘08 bumper stickers
This …
We’re Mad As Hell … At Daytime TV, Getting Sleazier By the Minute
Has led to this…
Lew @ 77
Thanks for sticking around and commenting on our comments (if that isn’t circular … getting late on a Friday). I agree with you that people are scared, but I don’t think it’s primarily fear of our government. I think it’s more basically fear of some unseen force “out there” that’s trying to “get us”, whether that be “terrorists”, “islamofascists”, or the boogieman of the week. The assumption I think is that we need to give up some of our freedoms in order to guard against these evil-doers.
That to me is the fundamental failing of our liberal leaders (I hesitate to say leaders on the left because I think there are precious few liberals remaining on the left, and there are some prominent liberals in the Republican Party, such as Ron Paul). Where are the voices explaining that giving up fundamental constitutional protections doesn’t necessarily do anything to make us safer? In fact, by creating governmental transgressions of basic liberties, it turns our own formidable governmental apparatus against the people, making all of us less secure.
The absolutely disastrous record of American law enforcement in this field recently is genuinley frightening.
Let’s see – there was the news stand they blew up in April 2006 there was the shenanigans in Boston. The JFK thing
What all of this says to me is that when the next “september 11″ – a real one – strikes that you’re woefully unprepared and very badly served.
Lew Koch @ 85
Go, Lew!
Since I began non-violent public protest (’96) my life has been greatly enriched.
Started with a deliberate arrest (”line crossing”) as part of a group challenging unconstitutional Federal “closure orders” that forbade citizens from coming within miles of a contested timber sale site – on OUR National Forest land.
Fuck that noise.
The USFS had no more basis to forbid our free movement than did Cooke to interdict free association.
And as soon as I heard of her order, I hoped one of the press would immediately defy her illegal and unconstitutional order.
In Salem, Oregon in ‘97, the Hon Judge Ochoa threw out the charges (transferred by USFS to Oregon county courts) on 1st Amendement Grounds.
Our arrests (Horse Byars) were part of a chain of arrests that ruptured the working economic relationship between Federal and state/county law enforcement in the Northwest “Forest Wars”.
In the 80’s and 90’s mass public protests on Federal (USFS/BLM) public lands – targeting Federal policies – blossomed across the West.
The Feds sent the arrestees (and charges) to local courts, but never fully compensated the locals.
Finally, some of the local counties backed out of their working relationships with the USFS/BLM law enforcement, greatly complicating Federal suppression of peaceful protest and public assembly.
Good to remember.
Peaceful direct action gets the goods.
And you meet great people and have good fun.
Siun @ 98
I found an interview. Looks like good food for thought. Thanks for the link.
newtonusr at 94
Judge Cooke is being very, very careful. She;s been slapped down once and she doesn’t want it to happen again. That one observe I’ve been referring to — well he/she thinks the case will go to the jury and they’ll make the final (semi-final decision.) My sense of it — well, I wouldn’t be surprised if the jury found them guilty, there would be a lengthy appeal process (meanwhile Padilla would be doing time) — until eighteen months expire and we have a new administration.
Fact is I’d like to see the candidates asked some questions about the Constitution, Bill of Rights and one Jose Padilla.
Lew Koch @ 105
Again, thank you so much for bringing this to us.
DrenchedOtter @ 101
yup, ditto. And all the other comments that add perspective to my own.
OK, the link to violence and “tourism” I get. But the link to violence and “football?”
What a stretch.
Do you think they’d give a meaningful reply ?
kirk murphy at 103
EXACTLY! Look what happened. You didn’t do hard time, you met some cool folks, you got a point made, you have an extra paragraph on your FBI file. BTW, I asked for my file a while ago. They wrote back, no file. I appealed noting a one hour interview with two agents from the FBI following the 1868 Democratic National Convention. No record? Bullshit. Cough it up. The reporters didn’t make a fuss ’cause it would have gotten them tossed from the courtoom and become part of the story. Generally, I agree with that. Reporters should stay out of the story. But there’s always payback, and one reporter indulged, correctly. (Check back columns.) He tore into Judge Cooke — just like she deserved. Some judges think the black robes are a shield against error. They’re wrong, especially when you check the Federal Courts of Appeals which is literally stuffed with right wing, Federalist Society alums. That’s going to take decades to redress and whoever the President is will have to move swiftly and powerfully.
I want to make one point of privilege: you folks are sooooo cool!
LK, That’s going to take decades to redress and whoever the President is will have to move swiftly and powerfully.
This issue of the USAs has really been under the radar in terms of the damage done. Besides the war and campaign finance reform, this issue is rising to the top of my list for redress.
MfI – it would be interesting to see how far any of the candidates would go. The acceptance of the right wing “islamofascist” myth is so pervasive, it would be a bright and perhaps courageous candidate who took it on.
markfromireland @ 109
Not unless the moderator/host has control of their microphones and knows how to use it.
Fantasy: Bill Moyers for host in an open forum of his own choosing.
I watched a bunch of British election coverage when LapDog was up – there’s some real confrontations with the DFH’s, and they are not pleasant, as you no doubt know. Which is why that cannot happen on this side.
One of the things I just don’t understand about this whole case is why they charged Padilla with what they did. Nobody doubts that he’s a cold-blooded killer. He also doesn’t seem to be very bright. Had the government just followed him around Chicago for a day or two, they probably could have come up with a charge that they could’ve made stick. They could’ve just had somebody pick a fight with him and then charged with with assault. Even after they had him at Guantanamo, they could have said he assaulted someone and held him for that. Why the bizarre charges? And does anyone really think these guys are going to go to jail because two guys were talking about “football”?
Lew Koch @ 111
And you, Lew, are a wonderful addition to our ragtag band!
And Frank P, creepy that pretty much anyone could be linked up through some phone or e-mail chain with people who use “code words” and then charged with some kind of bizarre routine like this one.
Sorta interesting that we have lost any high profile trials or arrests of the separatist/anti-government/anti-tax, etc group in the last few years.
Maybe they just loooove the Chimperor.
Yes and I think you’re the poorer for it. I have happy memory’s of the US but one of the things that struck me even when i first went there rather more than 30 years ago now is how excessively deferential to public office holders people are. Perhaps because of our history we tend to be less deferential they still get away with far too much but not as much as they would in the states.
Frank Probst at 115
On your point — Mayor Daley said something like that. When the feds did all that bragging about capturing Padilla and deliberately left Chicago cops sucking their thumbs, Daley bitched about the glory hounds.
Given the Chicago police the way I do, they’d have Padilla off the streets in less than a week, for committing a real crime. He was always going to get caught. But Ashcroft and company reached for the stars and all they came up with was dreck.
Having Wolfie or Tweety moderate a panel is so ridiculous. It is always all about them, no matter the arena. Tonite, one of the catbirds on Headine News was still crying about over the firing of Imus…..how unfair it was and what a bum rap he got. I think the FCC needs to do a total intervention.
Frank Probst, I think Padilla was just a test case. They wanted to test locking an American citizen up without proper charges, test torture on a citizen, test how lawyers/courts would respond.
They also wanted to test how we would respond, the people, the legislature, the press. Sad to say, it took Lew and his true blue types to get the word out.
I think, too, they wanted to just test how gullible everyone is. Dirty bomb with no evidence of such.
Lew Koch @ 119
So what happens if he’s found “Not guilty” on all counts? Can he just do an “O.J.” and walk right out the front door?
Lew Koch @ 119
11-7 changed everything for them. And I mean everything.
Lew Koch @ 111
Whoa!! Fell asleep at the keyboard here. Must be a sign.
Right back atcha, comrade. I’m loving it here in the heart of the Bolshevik revolution 90 years ago before Stalin got his hands on it and screwed everything up.
Keep up the great work, Lew. I look forward to your reports.
Spokoi nochi everyone.(How did it get to be 6:45 in the morning so fast??)
Poka Lew.
I am going to use that.
Sold.
Lew, thank you for your great post. My “intuition” has been screaming bullshit at me ever since this administration came into power, but enough of that…your post really rings true to me.
“Jayyousi had never encountered Padilla before they met in court. Padilla was added to the Miami case in late 2005 amid a legal battle over the extent of the president’s wartime powers to detain U.S. citizens.”
Bingo!!!
Thanks for being a voice of reason where it has been hard to find one for so long. I think I can breathe.
Loo Hoo. @ 121
I think they could have gotten away with all of that without these bizarre charges. Hell, they could have just ambushed him in broad daylight, beaten the shit out of him, and then told everyone that he resisted arrest when a cop tried to write him up for jaywalking. I don’t see the need for all the cloak and dagger. On the one-in-a-million chance that he was Osama bin Laden’s right-hand man, I’d guess that Osama is probably well aware of the fact that Jose Padilla is now in US custody and has taken steps to ensure that any information we got from Padilla is no longer useful. So why doesn’t the government either tell us, “Look, he told us about a plot to do X, and we disrupted the plot” or just let him go? (And then ambush him for jaywalking.) If this was their big test-case, I’d say they failed.
*diving in and joining the chorus of thank you’s for Lew for bringing this story to us – in a way that us lay folks can understand exactly how forked up this case really is.
Loo Hoo. at 121
That is a very interesting if not paranoid thought. (I give your idea serious credence. And thanks for the ‘true blue’ comments.) But to be serious and to return to that massive book I referred to — The Torture Papers – The Road to Abu Ghraib –The Forward to the Mikolasheck Report (p.634)
“We examined two key components of detainee operations: the capture, security and humane (sic) treatment of the detainees; and the conduct of interrogation operations in order to gain useful (sic) information. While we did not find any systemic failures that directly led to the abusive situations we reviewed, we have made recommendations to improve the effectiveness of detainee operations.
We found that soldiers are conducting operations under demanding, stressful, and dangerous conditions against an enemy who does not follow the Geneva Convention.”
Oh
And declaring war under false pretenses isn’t?
Briefly OT: Bush has the “runs”, and Cheney checking out heart problems, Pace replaced, Israel making concessions, and Hilton back in jail….hmmmmmmm…I must be dreaming…
Seems like the administration could find better bad guys than Padilla. Or are they really that incompet. . . .
Frank Probst at 128
You’re a Chicagoan, right?
Yes and thereby hangs a tale. Foreign citizens are legally fair game in the US courts. The problem with at is that there’s this thing in international law called reciprocity. Think about it. Because it’s one of those very nasty things hiding behind the door in the woodshed waiting to jump out.
OfT:
Did Congresscritters’ stink about Peter Pace’s gay comments make his re-nomination problematical?
I imagine Gates didn’t want a bruising re-confirmation centered around the Iraq occupation, but if Pace’s pro-Irve letter and anti-gay comments helped derail the CJCS, that’s pretty amazing.
I’ve read elsewhere that never has a CJCS not been renominated for a second term. It’s certainly an odd choice in a time of war.
markfromireland @ 134
I can’t imagine travelling abroad until this Administration is outta office and their insanities fixed, for just this reason.
Maybe a test, and maybe just an early effort to keep terra terra terra on the front pages for as long as possible.
For example, Padilla in the media a lot, even now. The JFK story now and the Florida caper a while back, not so much.
I think Padilla was just convenient … and the Susskind book shows that they were desperate to have a new example of catching those bad guys … as much to keep W happy at his daily briefings (he loves hearing about *how* they *get* info from torture subjects – and he was really pressing Tenet et al to show him some results)
Late Nite is upstairs
And I can’t imagine travelling to the us for the same reason. When you consider what i do for a living when i’m wearing my civilian hat that’s one hell of a statement.
But it’s going to cause major ructions no council of Europe (which is_not_ the same as the EU) will extradite in death penalty cases that’s the tip of the iceberg. There’s growing distaste – to put it mildly – for working together on this “terror war” crud and not just amongst politicians amongst law enforcement types and the judiciary too. I think you’ll find the Marty report will have a major impact over here.
Suin ar 139
Anything to please Bush
Let’s hope the Marty report leads to some clearer action … and that the Italians get that trial going!
not sure they will – there is a backlash starting (see my comments above) but i think it’ll take about another 2-3 years to really build to a head of steam.
Lew Koch @ 110
Lew, thanks for letting me know of the one reproter who spoke. I agree with the general point the press are to report the story, not be the story (even on Indymedia :).
[Here I do wish the whole press delegation (sans Fox and winger media) had pulled a “Spartacus” and just walked across to the attorneys to ask if they thought the order was Constitutional.
But that’s my fantasy world.]
So many Federalist judges – all dedicated to overthrow of the Constitution.
Many hopelessly impugned by repeated posh stays at megaresorts – paid by megacorps – where “experts” spout the latest AEI legal talking points.
And the Federal judges rule in favor of the folks who buy their $1,000 per night resort stays.
Federal Judeges make their own ethical rules (per separation of powers).
Congress defines High Crimes and midemeanors.
Strong Presidential and Congressional action to impeach the “Federalist” jurists…
will help restore our Republic.
TeddySanFran check out Larry Johnson on that Bye Bye, Perfect Peter
Way epu’d but thanks for not only the update but the overall context and information.
re 115 7 119: if he as picked up on real charges as a real criminal, they couldn’t have disappeared him into torture.
Thanks Lew Koch, everything about the witnesses seems hinky. And prejudicial.The government seems to be grabbing for straws with the phone calls. Not to mentin that volunteer for American world wide relief. Is this Jayyousi’s trial or Padilla’s? We have a corrupt DoJ system with KarlBots claiming “terror” at every turn. Those of us who watch Keith Olbermann, got a debunking story on the Guyyanese/JFK plot. What a mess.