Well, well, well. Looks like Miss Goodling-Two-Shoes isn’t such an innocent after all (via ThinkProgress and The Muck):
New Justice Department communications released tonight include an email from Monica Goodling, former counsel to Alberto Gonzales, directing another official to draw up a directive giving her unprecedented authority to hire and fire political staffers. Goodling tells the official, assistant attorney general Paul Corts, to “send [it] directly up to me, outside the system.”
Well, that raises all sorts of interesting questions, doesn’t it? Such as, who decided to send out this particularly large, rumbling bus for Monica? Is this payback for her insinuation that AG Gonzales may have committed perjury during his prior testimony to Congress? Is this someone inside the DOJ who has had enough of the whole crew — including their deliberate efforts to end-run the Presidential Records Act requirements?
Just how long does the RNC think that they can withhold evidence from the Congress on these backdoor channel e-mails now? With whom was Ms. Goodling corresponding, not just on this e-mail, but every other outside-the-system illicit tete-a-tete? Because it seems to me that this is prima facie evidence that there was a deliberate backchannel communication set up to evade oversight, regardless of the law, how about you guys? And the big question for Ms. Monica — if she deliberately downplayed her involvement in all of this, and this can be shown via multiple outside-the-system e-mails, how long before her immunity deal disappears in a puff of smoke?
Well, back to you Mssrs. Conyers, Leahy and Waxman. This is going to be quite the interesting little dance the next few days.
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Zed, I mean Uno
Get that false Madonna!
I can still hear that sweet little voice, “I may have crossed the line, but I didn’t mean to.” Hooo Boy! Are we going to have fun now!
As I was saying to LHP yesterday, I am not sure, but I seem to recall recalling that Monica testified that she didn’t know anything about the process that led to the decision to delegate hiring and firing authority to her and Kyle. And here these emails seem to indicate that she was in some sense driving the process within the DoJ. And determined to keep McNulty out of the loop.
Perjury?
christy writes:
Yeah, when I saw that e-mail my first thought was it’s now MG’s turn under the bus.
The wheels on the bus go round and round,
Round and round,
Round and round.
The wheels on the bus go round and round
Rolling over everybo-dy.
It’s only going to be an interesting little dance if Conyers, Leahy and Waxman are willing to strike up the band.
I won’t let myself believe that this will ever come to anything. I just can’t handle the letdown.
I will wait and see.
Exactly, an immunity grant doesn’t cover perjury. Big oopsy there, Monica. Or didn’t they teach that to you at Holy Roller U?
Wonder how Goodling’s testimony might have differed if she’d known this particular bit of info would be coming to light shortly…
Hoo boy, things are coming apart on the Goopers in a hurry these days.
It would be sweet if there was an insider dishing out he goodies on these perps.
Marie Roget @ 8
If she didn’t, she’s just stupid.
Monica deserves whatever punishment gets meted out, however, she is small fries on this dinner plate. She is not my concern.
That speeding bus is very troublesome imo. Can you say Fall Girl?
I see Abu behind this to save his own behind. It. Won’t. Work.
I still don’t understand how the criminals are able to just refuse turning over all this stuff. Can I try this if I’m ever questioned under oath or being interviewed? “Ahhh…sorry officer. I’ll look around and get back to you if I find anything. Don’t call me….I’ll call you. Now leave me alone.”
Somehow, I don’t think this would work. What the Hell is the holdup?!?
WARNING: GRATUITOUS OFF_TOPIC SELF PROMOTION…
my takedown of Joe Klein’s new column attacking the progressive blogosphere has been front paged at TPM Cafe…
Joe Klein’s Big Lie
Marie Roget @ 8
She probably thought that since the email traffic was outside the system, she was safe. But unluckily for her, someone–likely in the habit of playing by the book–sent an attachment via regular channels.
That’s the problem with email, it is so easy to send something off to the “wrong address” with just a little click of the mouse!
If she lied with the limited immunity then I would assume she is in really deep do-do. She must be asking Jesus for forgiveness alot.
immigration bill cloture vote just now on the senate floor – i heard 61 no, 34 yes
and i think all the republicans voted no, with some dems also voting no – including bernie sanders and jim webb. will be interesting to see the roll call vote.
spurious @ 10
New nickname: Moronica? ;)
Will this new evidence be enough for a return trip to the microphone for Monica?
Hugh @ 7
but….she didn’t mean to commit perjury!
It’s looking more and more like Goodling was using Scooter as her model in how to create a story that exculpates her and keeps the firewall intact. Scooter could have told her there is just one small problem going that way, and it involves prison.
Bustednuckles @ 9
How do you think we got this far?
Drip, drip.
Marie Roget @ 17
Maybe Noron O’Donnell could interview Moronica someday…
Bustednuckles @ 18
Hopefully in front of Leahy’s committee this time.
I seem to notice a pattern here. They often go first to Conyers for a little softening up, and then to Leahy where the real questioning occurs. And the perjury traps.
Jeez – her attorney got her immunity for *anything* she said to the committee, and she blew it.
If it had been me, I’d have gone into full Catholic mode – “Bless me, Mr. Chairman, for I have sinned”. I improperly used religion and politics in hiring and firing of Dept personnel; I had impure thoughts about both my boss Abu and his boss GWB; I’ve got some unpaid parking tickets…”
Questions:
Has Luskin got back to Pat on the Rovian e-mails. What the fuck is taking so long?
More obstruction…
Here is my take: Comey and Fitz KNOW exactly
what has happened at JUSTICE and the WHITE HOUSE. They have done their best to indiscreetly make it public. But what they really need to do is TO TELL ALL… without passes… truly a Profiles in Courage moment….
If not, this admin will simply play out the
clock….
They are professionals but for a few hours
they need to come clean with ALL they know…
they will be risking their careers but this
nightmare must end….
rat bastahd @ 11
Abu’s behind is already toast. The only reason he is still here is Bush’s obstinance, since he needs Gonzo to hide behind.
Monica Quisling is merely a Party functionary carrying out Republican ideology and policy. The Republicans have had a plan since Nixon to politicize all aspects of government, not unlike what the Nazis did in Germany and the Commies in the Soviet Union. According to Tom Hartman there is a Karl Rove “play book” that outlines their plans. Said it was on Daily Kos but can’t find anything. Any leads?
I’ve been getting the feeling over the last couple of days that people inside the DOJ who take their jobs seriously are feeling more and more like they can do the right thing. With Congress back doing their job on oversight and the Bushies running on constant damage control at this point, it seems like career law enforcement officials might be feeling safe enough to get back to work instead of keeping their heads down under the Soviet system of political favoritism and hackery put in place by Gonzales and backed up by the White House.
I think this corrupt administration has actually stumbled into a pretty good strategy for running out the clock. It is a flooding the zone strategy.
Simply put, there is so much malfeasance and corruption it is damn near impossible to focus in on and effectively deal with any one thing.
Hugh @ 9:24 am -
I left a comment for you (and for Kirk Murphy if he’s here) near the end of the previous thread.
American justice? Give me a break.
Paris Hilton was released from jail early Thursday due to an unspecified medical condition after serving only three days of her sentence.
What was Hilton’s med condition? Party withdrawals?
Libby might go to jail and his bosses are laughing. And Libby gets 2 1/2 years for treason.
Iraq. Saddam gets hanged brutally, and George, Karl and Dick, Donald and Condi, terrorists all, run amok.
Yeah. American justice. I ask for no pardon for being extremely cynical.
Marie Roget @ 17
Love it! :~)
Love the new layout, and mad props for the ACLU disscussion today. Perhaps one day soon I’ll be able to hang at the lake instead of driveing by.
Go go go Christy Hardin Smith. We want our government back from those who abuse their powr.
Kind of like the line from Lost:
“Nothing stays buried.”
Here ya go Bluetoe: http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..82434/8934
DailyKos diary on Rove’s play book.
Mods_please delete my comment #37. I edited the #33 and I hit submit by mistake.
Sorry about that.
[Mod: fixed]
I advocate replacing our adversarial system of so called ‘justice’.
I was all set to write a snarky comment about perjury not being in the bible, but there’s that pesky (8th?) Commandment about “bearing false witness”…maybe Regency leaves that commandment out of their law school curriculum?
puppethead @ 28
Fixed.
Bluetoe @ 27
Fifth diary down on right side–at Kos.
p.lukasiak @ 13
nice, paul.
p.lukasiak @ 13
Well written, well done.
Oh. Man.
I hope the testosterone-enriched members of the community didn’t buy that “stupid little good girl” act that Goodling sent up.
This bit in particular is going to get her spanked:
[source: email from Mari Santangelo to Robert Marshall, dd. 22-FEB-06 4:44p]
She deliberately avoided the DAG’s and OASG’s office; in the background, on the date of this particular email, the PatActII is being debated and is not approved until the end of the month, with the Delegation of Authority signed on 01-MAR-06 (need to double-check the date) almost immediately after the PatActII passed.
Within weeks of this time, Thomas Heffelfinger will announce he is leaving USA-MN position.
Our “stupid little good girl” was quite deliberate and very busy; she’s on the hook for a lot more than Hatch Act violations.
oddmommy @ 19
Well that’s OK then
we’re gonna get/
you loyal bushie/
sing good lingua.
Can I ask a dumb civics question??
Does Congress have the power to convict anyone? With all the perjury and lying and “I don’t remember” and obvious ‘untruth’ going on, how does the loop actually close? Do they have to be accused of perjury, then tried in the Justice department, or can Congress put them directly in Jail?
Thanks.
OT – Chris Dodd on cspan3.
First, Monica, Kyle and Alvin are just dumb enough to have forwarded their ‘backdoor’ e-mails to Palast’s spoof-site.
Second, the DoJ appears to dump BushCo-incriminating e-mails only after they first become referenced in the public domain – they haven’t otherwise been volunteering anything other than BSOs and self-serving supports.
Monica lied when she denied having ‘the keys to the Kingdom’ – Iglesias was referring to the ‘backdoor’ e-mail system used to ‘coordinate’ political activities ‘off the radar’ of any oversight.
Monica, it’s starting to look like, was a Major Player in ‘actioning’ the will of her masters – Rove and Miers – but she tended to use the ‘backdoor’ comm system exclusively, to cover her tracks.
The ‘Keys’ to the ‘Conspiracy Kingdom’ are the Blackberry’s they ALL kept jingling in their pockets.
Gasho @ 48
no, Congress can’t put anyone in jail. You need an indictment for perjury, a criminal trial, and a verdict of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
The most important two things that would facilitate world peace would be public financing of elections and a radical overhaul of the American justice system. Ever stop to think which professional group erects the highest roadblocks to public financing of elections in this country? Disgusting.
O/T – email I just sent to the Arkansas GOP
__________
Lemme see if I got this right:
Your head guy Dennis Milligan wants to see another 9/11 attack on this country to “bring the naysayers around” to admit what a Big Swingin’ Hero George Bush is?
e.g.,
“”At the end of the day, I believe fully the president is doing the right thing, and I think all we need is some attacks on American soil like we had on [Sept. 11, 2001],” Milligan said to the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, “and the naysayers will come around very quickly to appreciate not only the commitment for President Bush, but the sacrifice that has been made by men and women to protect this country…”
Notwithstanding that such an attack would simply demonstrate Bush’s inability to “pertect the Murkin Peeple from them Terrists”?
Y’all are beautiful. LOL!
BobbyG
Oh, and one more bit that has been stuck in my craw and may yet add up to something. During the course of the emails about the delegation and in the cover letter of the delegation there is a reference to a memo — Memorandum for Jennifer G. Newstead, General Counsel, Office of Management and Budget, “Assignment of Functions Related to Certain Military Appointments, at 3-4(July 28, 2005)”.
As far as I can tell, Newstead is no longer in OMB; what the hell was this about?
Remember Iglesias comment to the effect that every thing was documented at DOJ in memos?
Yeah. That.
And I think we now have concerns about OMB.
OddMommy – Thanks.
So… When is Gonzo going to be indicted?
[everyone else, stop rolling your eyes.. I can sense I’m way behind on this stuff, but sheesh, we’re not all lawyers here.]
: )
Bluetoe @ 27
believe this is the Kos diary Rove Playbook
p.lukasiak @ 13
Joe Klein, JASN: Just Another Stealth Neoconservative. Also James Carville, Dennis Ross, Christopher Hitchens (well not very stealthy), everyone at The New Republic, Tucker Carlson, Scarborough, Thomas Friedman, David Boder, Maureen Dowd…and a few more.
I am angry with most politicians. Regardless of political affiliation. And are most politicians lawyers?
completely OT –
from their carepage i see that tommy yum’s son esten has just been released from the hospital, and is now back home – good news!
yeah!!
((( esten )))
Goodling’s “good girl” act was just that- a very carefully crafted facade, from wardrobe, hair, & makeup to tone of voice, etc. This all trying to conceal the personality of someone who was apparently known around DoJ as “The Buzzsaw”…
I’d love to see David Iglesias question her under oath:
Iglesias Interview @ truthout.org
Nothing says progressive re-design like flush left. thank you!
I want the DOJ story on the top of my Google News page…how to make it so?
Gasho @ 56
Welcome aboard.
This is THE place to get answers.
As a political novice when I first came here, I can tell you this place is where you need to be.
Hugh @7: Damn, I guess her lawyer decided to just roll the dice. If she gets prosecuted for perjury, wonder if she would have been better off just being forthcoming and letting the chips fall where the may. I can see Pat Leahy’s eyebrows aflame right now.
OfT
Immigration bill coalition spinters:
[snip]
Associated Press | RAPHAEL G. SATTER | June 7, 2007 10:48 AM
A coalition of human rights groups has drawn up a list of 39 terror suspects it believes are being secretly imprisoned by U.S. authorities and published their names in a report released Thursday.
Information about the so-called “ghost detainees” was gleaned from interviews with former prisoners and officials in the U.S., Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Yemen, according to Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and four other groups.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 58
some of us lawyers are honest. Honest!
Noble even….think Atticus Finch! And Patrick the Fitz!
and George W. Bush is no lawyer. Don’t think Cheney is either — though I could be wrong about that. Nor Rumsfeld, nor Condosleaza. Hell, Tom DeLay was a bug killer.
Gasho @ 55
not to worry. I’ve been a lawyer for nigh on 20 years, and I still don’t know the answers to a lot of the legal stuff that gets asked here.
Technical outsourcing might not be such a problem, if we graduated more engineers, scientists and math guys rather than the tons of lawyers we graduate.
p.lukasiak @ 13
Great catch! Congratulations to ya!
TeddySanFran @ 65 –
thanks for the update… was surprised to see the republicans vote together… i thought this was supposed to be an exercise in wedge politics?
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 30
I left a reply back there for you.
TradMed is casting Harry Reid as W’s water carrier in this immigration debate — not the role I want to the Democrats’ majority leader playing on the national stage.
oddmommy @ 66
Yeah, the Chimpenfuhrer couldn’t get into UTexas Law which is why he got an MBA from Hah-vuhd.
re: immigration bill
Mel Martinez was on cspan3 late morning on Washington Review taking calls and getting completely beat up by really, really angry calls about the immigration bill. Callers were having *none* of it at all calling it total bullshit!
Raw Story headline: ABC: Another of president’s men is in trouble: Soon…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 68
well, yer problem there is that those guys have to be, you know…….smart.
Bustednuckles @ 62
Heard on the street; So, how long before Abu gets his funky ass kicked to the curb.
It is a dilemma for the prez nez pa.
the floodgates would be like the dykes in the ninth, unable to hold back the crap.
Tewtally OT (apologies), but wondered if anyone had heard about or seen my esteemed Senator’s hissy fit over an amendment to the immigration bill proposed by Obama. There’s a little clip here in the post.
And with Iraq imploding, this is what he chooses to piss and whine about. Amazing.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 76
The link is up:
[snicker]. Talk about getting kicked upstairs.
But then, that’s been the story of his life, hasn’t it.
Poor Jeb.
I see the bugs are still being worked out on the upgrade. Good luck!
Things hopping in Alaska news today re Rep. Don Young and Sen. Ted Stevens. Sadly, it is places like TPM Muckraker, The Next Hurrah and so on – blogs outside of Alaska – which are seriously attacking the criminality of these two, while the Alaska media appears to be preparing to launch a series of puff pieces meant to give them false credibility locally.
oddmommy @ 67
I hear you. And understand what you’re telling me. ;0)
Mandrake @ 63
I loved watching Leahy & Whitehouse spank Alvin (B.S), especially when, at the outset, it was apparent that Alvin’s modus operandi was to be flippant with the SJC.
Funnier still was watching Alvin’s minions squirm as their “petulant leader” was summarily
castratedcastigated by Leahy and Whitehouse.When Feingold feels so sorry for you that he smiles instead of shouting … you’re in neck deep …
Note to the rest of the Chipmunks: … try that sh*t in Conyers’ Court, but not in Waxman and Leahy’s.
twolf1 @ 80
Oh, no! You mean we’re not going to be able to start praying over gays at USPH hospitals? I was about to pull my old witch doctor costume out of storage.
What are the stats on professions in the Congress? What are the numbers on the professions of lobbyists?
bernie sanders speaking on the senate floor right now (cspan2) is making a lot of sense. explaining why he’s against the immigration bill… he targets the corporations – not the foreign workers and the problem. me like.
Think Progress has a video of the immigration meltdown.
oddmommy @ 66
I don’t have many people whom I respect as much as my dad … Atticus Finch is one of my heroes as is the fine gentleman who played him in the movie.
Oh, and I love all you honest lawyers, oddmommy !!!
Ed*ard Teller @ 82
ET,
Did you see this from the NYTimes? Young inserted earmarks for contributors in FLORIDA and when the local officials were not respsonsive, they were threatened that NO road funds may be forthcoming if they DIDN’T take the money.
ha-ha!
Oxymoronic headline of the day: GOP Environmentalist Linked to Abramoff to Plead Guilty — Steno Sue on the case:
Could the Bush Crime Family be taken down, finally, by a woman scorned? Griles, please recall, recently married his subsequent girlfriend and lobbyist housemate, in a bid to scamper under laws prohibiting wives from testifying against husbands. To bad bigamy’s illegal — it seems Griles may have needed to shut up Italia as well!
oddmommy @ 66
Lots of ‘em are from the private industry sector. I’d love to see some stats on that: how many Reps. and Senators are from the private sector, divided into Repube vs. Dem categories.
And I have worked with many good, principled lawyers in the past.
But I was married to one once. He was a very successful defense attorney and shrewd businessman (a little too shrewd). Not the best marital track record, however!
And one of the prez’s bff’s is Gonzales. A lawyer.
oddmommy @ 67
Well … that’s because you weren’t fortunate to attend Regent Law … /s
selise @ 88
Bernie ALWAYS makes sense. And never fails to speak from the gut. He is about as real as they come…and like Leahy is from Vermont!
yellowsnapdragon @ 88
I am sorry about the immigrants.
However, I find beauty in the spectacle of bush’s one and only chance for a legislative victory being ground into dirt by his very own beloved BASE.
OKK — Knock off the lawyer bashing — whatever string of conversation you want to have on it is fine if you talk facts and information. But throwing out odd single sentence lawyer-bashing statements is bullshit. And, considering there are a lot of lawyers who work their asses off for social justice and other very fine constitutional and decent reasons, it’s insulting — with no basis in fact other than you seem to be in the mood for it today. So can it.
Bluetoe @ 27
You’re thinking of the Malek Manual.
Bob in HI
What brave PrezCandi will put a hold on this nomination?
There are many good lawyers. John Dean comes to mind. As does Elliot Richardson and Ruckelshaus. But how many attorneys and politicians want to change the system? Anyone want to argue that our adversarial system has much to do with justice?
A modest blog-whore, con su permisso?
More music (Lenny Kravitz!), plus there’s a recitation of Twain’s War Prayer
http://woodyguthriesguitar.blogspot.com/
The fascist thought police have been active in protection of Ghouliani:
http://thewell-armedlamb.blogs…..oning.html
There’s some more good news from the Regime on how top monitor climate change (not):
http://walled-in-pond.blogspot…..front.html
To those that provided a link to the Rove Play Book @ Dailykos I thank you. The internet is going to put the MSM out of business, not a minute too soon.
selise @ 86
I love Bernie. He speaks the truth. The truth all Americans need to understand. I’m not interested in any immigration bill that does not address the core problem of US complicity and exploitation.
dakine01 @ 90
I commented on it at TPM Muckraker at 12:03 PM.
Gasho @ 48
I’m sure there are more knowledgable folks around here (way more), but to clarify, Congress was not given the role of judge and jury EXCEPT in cases of impeachment. However, Congress may hold someone in contempt, without any help or interference from DOJ, for the duration of the current term of Congress (i.e., until the current Congress adjourns sine die some time in the fall of 2008). This means Congress can effectively jail someone. It’s happened before. Also note: Congress can’t impose imprisonment upon impeachment.
old gold @ 29
This is the “swarm” defense, pioneered by gnats (I kid you not.) Schools of fish use it, too. The idea is that if you have enough small nuisances swarming around, it is hard to deal with them one at a time.
Bob in HI
Christy Hardin Smith @ 97
The fact of the matter is the adversarial system we have has not much to do with justice. Like it or don’t. I don’t care.
TeddySanFran @ 99
given the size, influence, and pervasiveness of GLBT culture in New Mexico, I e-mailed Sen. Jeff Bingaman to ask him to put a ‘hold on Holsinger.’ Did not receive anything back but an acknowledgement of receipt…i do NOT have very high hopes, as Bingaman’s VERY VERY careful…
Blink …….
Blink……
I kind of enjoy a good lawyer joke myself, but understand that that sentiment is not universal amongst lawyers.
And thanks for the kind support above, y’all.
OT, but does anyone have info on the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act? Thought they were going to vote on it today.
Did Monica give herself the promotion outside the channel, or did she have some authority? Who gave the authorization for her to do this?
Redd, you ok? Anything we can do?
Bob Schacht @ 106
My kids use the exact same method !!! *g*
OT, New Froomkin Lede is newspapers against pardon.
I’m sure it is. As will be this one.
TeddySanFran @ 98
Holsinger made my scandals list at 188. I enjoyed your post on same. As Holsinger comes from Kentucky, Senate Minority Leader McConnell is up to his eyelids in this.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 96
Amen!
OKK at 106 — Well, having worked in the judicial system doing 16 hour days and more some days for a lot of my professional life, and having seen justice work in case after case after case, you and I will just have to disagree on that point.
It does work, when people are working at it the way they are supposed to day in and day out. And no amount of cherry-picking the odd case out as examples gets around that fact. Like it or not — I don’t care either. And no amount of stream-of-consciousness ranting about lawyers changes my years of experience as one, thank you very much.
TiredFed — Thanks, I’m fine. Just a bit busy today with a preschool teacher meeting and a chat upcoming with the ACLU on habeas issues and about a billion other things. How are you doing today?
TiredFed @ 113
I am available for relaxation/meditation classes … for peanuts !!! *g*
great piece, here, CHS — but i find
myself wondering whether you mean leahy not cheney, in your closer. . .
jes’ wonderin’. . .
I was surprised to hear Schumer say that he’s not a prosecutor … what was his profession before he became Senator?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 119
We shall just have to disagree. As gentle folks are wont to do.
Petrocelli @ 84
So true.
http://images.google.com/imgre…..e&cd=1
new thread
Bluetoe @ 111
It’s being voted on this afternoon in the Senate Judicary committee.
Trial lawyers are the ONLY protection the average citizen has against the predations of the corpoRat culture. mostly folks who diss the legal profession are folks who have lost at the bar–or never really needed a lawyer in the first place…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 120
I’m a Canuck, so perhaps I’m out of the loop … when will the ACLU and ABA file grievances with BushCo, or have they done so already?
Christy sez:
‘Is this payback for her insinuation that AG Gonzales may have committed perjury during his prior testimony to Congress?’
May I be so crass as to say, YOU BET YOUR SWEET BIPPY IT IS!
I know so many lil girls just like Monica. Remember, I had the pleasure of working with them for about 8 years. I got to know the pseudo-fundie game having had so much (two-faced)face time with these phony b*tch*s.
You know what really struck me during Lil Miss Innocent’s testimony? The way she said the word ‘didn’t’. When she was gaming the slobbering and complicit Republicans, she used her lil girl voice and said ‘di’n’. When the Dems were grilling her, she used one of her multi-personality voices, and annuciated ‘did n’t normally. She and Fred Thompson should get together. Oh, wait, maybe they already have??
this is key. The lack of justice is not inherent in the system itself, but the result of abuse.
nolo — LOL I did! Was rushing to get this done before our preschool meeting. Will fix that! Thanks!
snowyegret @ 127
i think they voted on it already today, and it passed in committee on a party-line margin, 11-8…
waves to Loo Hoo
Good Luck tomorrow, Give ‘em Hell, **RRY ! *g*
kdh22 @ 130
kdh: this is interesting…..in what context did you work with these creatures?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 132
That’s okay, Alvin (B.S.) thought he was appearing before Cheney as well … *g*
kdh22 @ 129
Yeah…I did it again. Enunciated! [hot-tempered moron alert!]
Christy Hardin Smith @ 120
I’m great! Just coming down from the high of having met Jane and Marcy on the same day! Kids have basketball and softball at the same time (this is what happens when you have more than one, but well worth it), but my college boy will be pitching in to help (mom is out of town). then there’s work! which I should get back to. take care.
oddmommy @ 109
I have no doubt that some get really sick of it sometimes. You’re just a good sport!
Anyways, I have to endure blonde joke e-mails sent to me by people a whole lot dumber than I am! ;)
oddmommy @ 131
You could make Million$ trademarking this and printing it on T-Shirts !!!
From the Libby Letters-Here is an example of a very fine lawyer from Texas, Robert Willmann Jr. who asked that Libby get a sentence of 12 to 15 years. p 91 part4.pdf
The ‘adversarial’ orientation of the legal process harks back to the ancient ‘trial by combat’ tradition: he whose cause is just prevails in a contest of arms…innit?
Let me say also that I worked for years as an adult felony probation officer writing pre-sentence and probation revoking reports in Cali to ’super court’ and maintainig a rather large county, state and out of state and federal courtesy case load. Want to talk experience? Fine.
oddmommy @ 134
I worked for the ‘Dark Side’ at the state legislature level in my home state. Even though it was state level, national politics and legislation were always just one phone call or a nightcap away…if you get my drift. I’ve done the over compensation thing by going very left from my very right (read: wrong) upbringing and early adult years. I’m much more comfortable here rather than ‘ova there’.
What truly amazed me was when Monica G. said that Karl Rove’s love child, Tim Griffin, was behind the caging scam (a break rock felony) and nothing seemed to register with anyone on the committee. I would think a, no holds barred, questioning session would have ensued after that revelation.
Hi, jest wondering – how come some posts have a “Refresh Comments” and some don’t? Is this just a glitch or is it an attempt to get us to shut up after a long thread? ;^)
Mandrake @ 145
I think posts get closed to comments after some time period (24 hours?). The ‘advertise at fdl’ post has been set so that it doesn’t accept comments.
Q: How many lawyer jokes are there?
A: Only three. The rest are true stories
Carver @ 145
that surprised Thom Hartmann, too. he opined that the ‘caging’ revelation–that, despitre being legally enjoined form doing it, the busheviks had a full-time aide in CHARGE of it–was a rife with potential for mischief inside the Bushevik regime as any other single utterance throughout the whole proceedings.
that nothing more has become or been made of it is endlessly surprising…because it is clearly an illegal tactic…
but yet there it sits, languishing in the ignorance of the senators who, one might think, would be on it like white on snow…’
,.
The House is taking a procedural vote and will soon move to the final vote on stem cell research.
Mandrake @ 146
I guess, it happens from time to time. With IE you can hit F5 key to refresh in the times that the ‘refresh’ button has disappeared.
Ok at 143
I love your heart – you’re an impassioned person and we need that – but I think Christy was asking you to contextualize your comments – so that we get the benefit of your experience instead of leaving us to assume an over-driven rant.
When I want to ‘throw darts,’ I go to the main thread at the HuffPo and heave until my fingers hurt.
But the Lake is a deeper place.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 97
Christy – sorry, but I think I got this ball rolling. My original point was… “When is Gonzo gonna pay?”, and I didn’t understand why it hadn’t happened yet. I figured all the fine lawyers in this bunch would read my comment with a “Duh…that’s the question” remark. I was self-depricating, but seemed to spark something. Maybe everyone is fried by watching so much CSPAN3 lately that the lawyer/anti-lawyer grudge is primed right now (?)
kdh22 @ 130
Those so-called “Christians” who have prayer plaques all over their offices will stab you in the back the first chance they get.
Senate Judiciary hearing opening now on election fraud. Not on cspan but is available as video on SJC website.
kdh22 @ 144
wow. So…if you don’t mind my asking, what was it that, er, brought you to Jesus, so to speak?
(Because HE, little Goodlette and all of her many ilk notwithstanding, is clearly on THIS side.)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 107
OKK– I’m with Christy on this. If you’ve got specific complaints against specific lawyers, then show us the evidence. I am against ad hominem attacks in any form. IANAL, but Christy, Looseheadprop, Jeralyn, and others are good lawyers. We need them.
So, you’ve got a problem with the adversarial system? What would you suggest instead? I don’t think the adversarial system is the best thing in the world, but most of the alternatives have worse problems. I know that for some issues, the Native Americans have some good alternatives (like court systems based on restorative justice rather than punishment.) So I’m not just asking an empty rhetorical question. But you’ve got to back up your complaints with some alternatives. Generic lawyer bashing won’t do.
Bob in HI
egregious @ 154
Do you have a link?
[Mod: Linky]
I wish everyone could read this man’s writings – The Honorable Desmond Tutu
here’s the thing thoug;
the administration no longer cares, they will just say;
“because”
abu torture is still in office, the administration still has the nerve to say “nothing was done inapproprate”
they have stopped the facade, now they just say;
“yea?..so what, do something about it”
Thanks for the link to the Senate webcast on voting suppression hearing.
Feingold up at SJC hearing
Christy Hardin Smith @ 132
he he!
it made me smile, too, for
fairly obvious reasons. . .
enjoy the juice-box & crayon-talk. . .
p e a c e
egregious @ 149
if that fuckwad vetoes this again and it’s not overridden, I am REALLY gonna be sick.
This is a personal issue for me, as I’m sure it is for many.
I was incensed last night to hear that Ken-doll Brian Williams talking about some new research with mice as maybe being a “solution” to the stem cell “controversy.” Furious, furious, furious. Research is about exploring ALL avenues to seek cures……not cherry picking the ones that make deluded fundie zealots happy.
A little discouraged that 8 senators voted NO on the Habeas resoration. Other than Specter, whose bill it was, with Leahy, there are 8 other republics. Sad to see something like this have the potential to be a partisan fight when it gets to the floor.
Wasn’t it Shakespeare who wrote:
I was working in the office late one night
When my eyes beheld an eerie sight
For my kiddo from his slab began to rise
And suddenly to my surprise
He did the bash
He did the lawyer bash
The lawyer bash
It was a courthouse smash
He did the bash
It caught on in a flash
He did the bash
He did the lawyer bash
What would I suggest instead of the adversarial system? Piece of cake. Do what the British do. Pool the info between defense, prosecuters and judge. And as for specifics? I offer the advice given by John Mitchell to his president (Nixon; Mitchell went to jail and so did Dean) also a lawyer, and the advice given by Gonzales (who should be in jail) to his prez. Just for starters.
Hugh @ 165
the Monster Mash dude (can’t remember his name) died recently. Hope he’s mashin’ it up in Heaven….
Schumer up at SJC
oddmommy @ 167
Bobby Boris Pickett
Might want to check out the Senate hearing on voter suppression, dirty tricks, caging etc.. They are taking it to the Republicans!
Hugh @ 165
I like it! ;0)
Obama up SJC.
oddmommy @ 155
My conversion was 100% impacted by my experiences with the people of the right (again, read:wrong). I still contemplate some of the conservative ideals from time to time and think that maybe I could support a few. However, my thoughts always return to how the people of that thinking took some pretty good ideas and violated them to a point where they are now unrecognizable to me.
It’s been said a lot lately here on FDL, in some of the Congressional hearings, on the Senate and House floors, etc. that there’s no puttin’ that genie back in the bottle. That’s how I feel about my conversion. No goin’ back.
What truly amazed me was when Monica G. said that Karl Rove’s love child, Tim Griffin, was behind the caging scam (a break rock felony) and nothing seemed to register with anyone on the committee. I would think a, no holds barred, questioning session would have ensued after that revelation.
I’ve left a comment about this EPU’d on a few threads, and would like it if someone who knows their law could assess its plausibility.
One possible explanation for not going after caging very hard in that particular meeting of HJC would be Monica’s immunity deal.
Basically,if they end up getting the goods on Monica, and want to prosecute,n they need to be able to show that the goods they’ve got don’t derive in any way from her immunised testimony.
What Conyers got from Monica (viz, the Gonzales testimony coaching) was more than enough to justify Monica’s limited immunity, provided it doesn’t foul up future prosecutions. The less that incriminated Monica that came out of that particular session, the better – provided it comes out in some other way (as is now apparently happening.)
Shorter Turkish Bill: More respect for Conyers please. He’s been here before.
But of course IANAL. And indeed IANAAC. Please let me know if what I’ve said holds water if you are.
oddmommy says:
June 7th, 2007 at 10:33 am
I kind of enjoy a good lawyer joke myself, but understand that that sentiment is not universal amongst lawyers.
I like ‘em too – I’m stealing the one at 148.
Kermit The
LawyerFrog: “It’s hard beinga lawyergreen”.Fwiw, I have a rather long, canned rant about the difference between being a “lawyer” and being “an attorney”, which I’ll spare y’all from for now.
Hint: I’m not so much a fan of “attorneys”.
If you want justice, or to get closer to it, pool the information.
Can’t help but wonder if the MSM will cover today’s Senate hearing on Republican voter suppression, caging etc.. I’m not holding my breath.
oddmommy @ 163
oddmommy, I do not know the legal arguments against Stem Cell Research but I can tell you that it is clearly stated in yoga/meditation scriptures as a science that is helpful to humanity in every way.
BigPharma is obviously against losing their cash cow as curing diseases with stem cells will severely restrict their revenue.
Specifics? Libby gets 2 1/2 years for what amounts to treason. Paris Hilton goes home after three days. Saddam gets hung for the same thing our prez does, with the backing of his AG. Geesh.
i was hoping to watch/record the HJC this afternoon… but the webcast itsn’t working for me.
anyone else able to get a feed? …argh!
*******
[Mod: http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings.aspx?ID=335
and live feed at
http://boss.streamos.com/real-.....070212.ram probably need RealPlayer ]
*******
Thursday 06/07/2007 – 2:00 PM
2141 Rayburn House Office Building
Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties
Oversight Hearing on the Constitutional Limitations on Domestic Surveillance
was expecting it would be good…
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..php#014509
kdh22 @ 144
I, too, was something of a dark-sider years ago, and I worked with the legislature in a southern state as a lobbyist. I am still moderately conservative, I guess. But, I saw enough of how things are done (and they do not at all resemble what is taught in Civics class in high school!) that I got fed up.
IANAL, but I am totally disgusted with what is going on — and I know many attorneys who are deeply concerned!
Someone mentioned in another post that Comey and Fitzgerald likely have all the goods. I am sure both are torn between party loyalty and loyalty to the justice system, and I am also sure that they are both trying to do things within the system as they know it. It may require one or both of them to just spill their guts, and trust that they will not be crucified. Extraordinary times require extraordinary actions by ordinary people — and I guess that was how our country got started.
I just hope their loyalty to country wins out!
Specifics. James Baker and the Florida chicanery in 2000. Or how about OJ Simpson and jury nullification. Or how about the Supreme Court and the Florida recount.
Ganzler speaking SJC
snowyegret @ 164
Do you have a link anywhere of how they voted? I am going to start getting real pointed in some communications if my senator voted NO!
Bluetoe @ 27
Right here…
jayt @ 175
eeek…not sure which one *I* am…. :)
Anyway, my receptiveness to a bit of lawyer-bashing is partly the result of having known many, many of my profession over the years who richly deserve it.
And how about civil litigation regarding wrongful injury or death. The complianant usually has one lawyer and very limited resources. The Insurance company usually has a battery of attorneys and virtually unlimited resources.
Petrocelli @ 178
Unless they are able to get in on the research and secure patents, I would think….but IANAE on that.
There ARE no f******g legal arguments against stem cell research. Just the twisted “ethics” of the “life begins at conception and ends at birth” crowd.
Glad to hear the yogis have the right idea….would expect that from such wise and peaceful folks.
And how much do you think I could raise for a legal defense fund, say as compared with Libby or Monica? And how many on death row, through poverty, are there because they are too poor to afford the best defense that money can buy?
House Judiciary hearing on illegal surveillance.
Hope this helps.
Sojourner @ 184
No, all I’ve seen so far is this
article in The Nation blog
I’m not sure if committee votes are shown anywhere public, as floor votes are –??
Oklahoma kiddo @ 189
Dander up, anyone? :)
Still would argue that it’s about ABUSE of the system…..
And does anyone think that public defenders and organizatins like the ALCU are not overburdened, undervalued, and that the legal playing field is level? I don’t hear you.
oddmommy @ 192
I remain of the view it’s the system.
And the Patriot Act. What exactly is that?
From Dylan’s “Hurricane”:
Great song.
It’s the abuse of an already bad system.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 179
Can any lawyer out there help me understand how a county sheriff gets to overide the judge’s sentence for Paris Hilton here?
Anybody who has sat in on and been invilved with criminal proceedings, say for ten years, can many times come away with the impression it’s the expediency that matters, not justice.
oddmommy @ 188
Actually ma’am, ‘many modern day yogis’ are as fundy as your fundies, and are against many of the progressive teachings, so they try their best to suppress them. The misuse of the caste system is a glaring example. I’ll keep working at my end, and I encourage everyone to volunteer their time and energy to help promote progressive, life enhancing principles.
For future hearings, cspan 3 is being added to cox cable in northern Virginia/suburban DC on a 24 hour basis. No more getting cut off by infomercials during a hearing I hope.
I am a strong supporter of stem cell research.
Chat on habeas with Caroline Frederickson of the ACLU about to start.
It’s conservative, Republican, neocon unprincipled lawyers who are the mouthpieces trying to overturn a womans right to choice.
Petrocelli @ 200
you remind me of a neighbor of mine, a fine gentleman who teaches yoga (and music) and promotes a solid progressive agenda. AND is a military veteran.
Do you have a long ponytail like he does?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 202
One group of researchers have recently discovered something that I have spoken about many times … there is a way to take a skin cell and turn it ‘back’ into a stem cell. Not that this should be the only type of Stem Cell research, but this avenue should be explored along with all the others … turning regular cells into stem cells.
This is noted in yoga scriptures !!!
egregious @ 201
oh BOY was I pissed when they did that last time.
Are you in NoVa, Egregious?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 194
A cynical, unconstitutional power grab.
FYI, new new live thread
oddmommy @ 205
At this point, no … but when my two darlings get older, they’re apparently going to make me have one and/or color my hair Orange. Hopefully I am as popular as Deepak Chopra then and will not lose my voice in the public forum as a result of their actions … because I will not go against their wishes … *g*
How do we deal with a Supreme Court not seemingly inclined to favor individual liberty and protection under the law?
egregious @ 190
thanks, that was the link i was using… but there was nothing. i had given up until i saw your comment… tried again and there is a video feed, but no audio yet (for me anyway)…
is the hearing already over, or has it not yet started?
will leave the recording going (since i can’t stay to watch now) and hope for the best.
thanks!
Can the Senate subpeona e-mail records from all individuals known to have RNC accounts or known to have received or sent to/from RNC accounts?
E-mails exist on servers, but they also exist on the user’s computer systems.
Ok – When I was in college, like most people, I had to share my living space. For one of those years, I lived in a student co-op with 55 others. Everything was communal – meals, bathrooms, Lounge and our one TV.
In order to avoid chaos in the cacophony of fifty voices, we had a rule called ‘the party rule’ – party as in having a good, responsible time as a lifestyle.
The party rule went like this – anyone could speak-up about anything at any time, and have their ’say’ – but (and this is key) in addition to making a complaint, it was incumbent on the complainant to suggest a remedy for the group’s consideration.
So, you could stand-up in the Lounge, gesturing at the one TV, and say, “This soap opera sucks!” But, if you didn’t follow it up with, “We should be watching the afternoon Cubs game, instead,” you got shouted down.
Self and Community respect is a two-way street that keeps us all in a balanced harmony of many voices blended in the song of our times.
selise—
I think you need to have RealPlayer installed.
This link works for me.
egregious @ 215
i guess the committee was in recess – that’s why the audio was off. but they’re back now and the the audio is working.
sadly, i missed all the first part. :(
but i’ll have the rest, thanks to you!
dakine01 @ 74
bg @ 112
insightful question!
radiofreewill @ 214
pretty good rule to live by, whether in a tight-knit group or not
artshu @ 213
E-mails of Former Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell..yes.
According to the Senate website, tomorrow they have scheduled the cloture vote on the no-confidence resolution for Gonzales.
“Attorney General Gonzales Sense of the Senate–Cloture: Senate began consideration of the motion to proceed to consideration of S. J. Res. 14, expressing the sense of the Senate that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales no longer holds the confidence of the Senate and of the American people.
A motion was entered to close further debate on the motion to proceed to consideration of the joint resolution, and, in accordance with the provisions of Rule XXII of the Standing Rules of the Senate, a vote on cloture will occur on Friday, June 8, 2007.”
Good news
Like I said in an earlier post on Miss goodie two shoes. She was an nut-cutter for the RNC.
I rest my case