It took FFFH all of one day to gin up a “Free Scooter The Felon” op-ed. At least this morning’s offering isn’t from the usual sources, but honestly, it is unseemly for a former federal prosecutor to be arguing commutation of sentence by a jury of Libby’s peers for undercutting the heart of a criminal investigation into a betrayal of national security secrets. But then again, perhaps that is just my commitment to the Rule of Law and not to the Bush administration’s rule of loyalty talking.
In any case, I found it an incredibly appalling bit of rationalization for conduct that was not only illegal, but also unbecoming of a person to whom so much power and trust was given.
Sidney Blumenthal has a fantastic piece this morning on why, exactly, Libby ought to serve every minute of his sentence in full. To wit:
Unmoved by these letters, Judge Reggie Walton imposed a sentence of two and a half years and a $250,000 fine, and told Libby, “Your lies blocked an extremely serious investigation, and as a result you will indeed go to prison.” Almost immediately, Cheney praised Libby’s “personal integrity,” and added his wish that the sentence will be overturned on appeal: “Speaking as friends, we hope that our system will return a final result consistent with what we know of this fine man.” Thus, Cheney encouraged his former chief of staff to maintain his steadfast refusal to implicate his former boss in the crimes Libby felt compelled to cover up with his lies to the grand jury.To be sure, others convicted of crimes often submit similar testimonials before sentencing. But most of those who throw themselves on the mercy of the court express sorrow at what they have done. Libby, however, refused to show remorse. He offered no contrition, only an exercise in victimhood. Like the child who has killed his parents and demands mercy for being an orphan, Libby tried to murder the truth and then got dozens of people to plead for leniency based on his good character.
The act of procuring these letters is further evidence of Libby’s stove-piping of disinformation. Libby could not reasonably have expected to sway the judge, but there is a higher authority to which he is appealing. These letters constitute the beginnings of the Libby Lobby’s pardon campaign.
Ironically, the longest, most detailed and among the most personal letters supporting Libby is also the most damaging. In “Re: Character Reference for I. Lewis Libby,” Paul Wolfowitz writes, “I am currently serving, until June 30 of this year, as President of the World Bank.” Either obtusely or obliquely, Wolfowitz’s opening line emphasizes the symbiotic nature of their careers, both men having fallen from grace within weeks of each other after years of collaboration. “It is painful for me to reflect on the fact that his life would have been very different if we had never met. He would almost certainly now be a successful attorney in Philadelphia.” Wolfowitz describes their 35-year association, going back to when he was an assistant professor at Yale and Libby was his assistant, and how he recruited Libby to serve as his assistant in the State Department and then in the Defense Department. According to Wolfowitz’s account, Libby was an indispensable man in ending the Cold War, winning the Gulf War and waging the “global war on terror.” But he was also, Wolfowitz writes, of “service to individuals.”
The leading example he offers is a stunning revelation, which does not reflect on Libby’s charity, compassion and sympathy as Wolfowitz might imagine. The story about Libby “involves his effort to persuade a newspaper not to publish information that would have endangered the life of a covert CIA agent working overseas. Late into the evening, long after most others had left the matter to be dealt with the next day, Mr. Libby worked to collect the information that was needed to persuade the editor not to run the story.”
Unintentionally and foolishly, Wolfowitz has hanged the guilty man again. Wolfowitz’s defense of Libby is composed with the same care and skill that Wolfowitz brought to the invasion and occupation of Iraq, creating the opposite effects of what he desired. In this bizarre disclosure, rather than exculpating Libby, Wolfowitz incriminates him; for this story is damning evidence of Libby’s state of mind — that he knew he was engaged in wrongdoing in leaking the identity of a CIA covert operative, Valerie Plame Wilson, to two reporters, Judith Miller of the New York Times and Matt Cooper of Time magazine, and in vouchsafing it to White House press secretary Ari Fleischer for the purpose of his leaking it to the press, which he promptly did.
In their filings and sentence pleading, Libby’s lawyers argued repeatedly that he did not know that Plame was covert, that he did not “knowingly disclose classified material,” and, as his lead attorney, Ted Wells, told the jury in his closing statement, that Libby acted in “good faith,” always believing that he was operating within the law. On Oct. 30, 2006, his lawyers filed a claim denying that “any damage to the national security, the CIA, or Ms. Wilson herself was, or could have been, caused by the disclosure of that status.”
Once again, Wolfowitz has blundered. Just as he has undone himself at the World Bank, this time he has inadvertently exposed Libby’s “good faith” for bad faith. Indeed, the Wolfowitz letter shows that Libby knew the consequences of revealing the “status” of a CIA operative. As evidence introduced in the CIA leak case proved, Cheney had confided the secret to him and ordered him to spread it. But Libby has never mentioned the previous incident of apparently trying to protect a covert CIA operative. If Wolfowitz remembers the story, and it’s credible, so Libby must recall it too. Therefore, he must also have known that his defense was based on false premises contrary to what he understood to be right and how he had acted in the past. He sent his attorneys to court to make a case he consciously knew was wrong from his own prior experience of having protected a national security asset from exposure. One can only wonder if Libby ever told his lawyers the story that Wolfowitz has recounted or whether he misled them, too.
Libby knew — absolutely knew — what his obligations were under his SF-312 agreement for high-level clearance. As does every other individual who holds one and signs off on the agreement. No dissemination of classified information, on threat of criminal sanction. An affirmative obligation to check out each and every bit of information prior to dissemination to be certain that it is not held closely. And, further, such information is only — ONLY — to be distributed when it is held so closely on a “need to know” basis.
Not only would he have been aware of that from the multiple times in his governmental service when he would have had to undergo refresher training on the rules and regs — but according to Paul Wolfowitz, Libby took it seriously enough at one point at least to go “above and beyond” to keep such classified information out of the public purvue. But he did not do so for Valerie Plame Wilson — indeed, he went above and beyond to ensure that such information was disseminated in a calculated and deliberate manner. And then lied repeatedly about his conduct to federal investigators and under oath to a grand jury, on more than one occasion.
No pardon. No commutation. No way.
As emptywheel points out, loyalty to the neocons and the Bushies trumps every other consideration, including in the letters that so many of Libby’s governmental pals wrote to Judge Walton, including a number of people who were implicated in and interviewed and/or deposed or asked to testify throughout Fitzgerald’s investigation.
But for Wolfowitz, who leaked what may have still been a classified document at Libby’s request? For Edelman, who may have suggested the leaking campaign in the first place? For Mayfield, who appears to have been a dutiful functionary trying to limit the circulation of evidence incriminating Dick and Libby?These people have no business calling for leniency. They’re basically calling for the guy shielding their own roles in this case to be rewarded. And doing it, I might point out, all the while emphasizing the virtue of loyalty.
Exactly so. What a tangled web these people weave — not just to deceive the public, but also to continue to deceive themselves into thinking they are full of great deeds and even greater virtues. What a crock.
Loyalty to one’s friends and one’s political party — and especially to one’s ideological soulmates — should never, ever trump one’s duties and obligations to nation and to the rule of law when one is in such a position of trust and power. If anything, in that position, an individual has an even greater obligation to live up to the trust placed in them by the public. That the political cronies and ideologues who populate the Bush Administration, from its lowest functionaries to its highest ranks among the Cheney faithful and beyond, cannot see this is their greatest weakness. For it is their failure to recognize a duty to something greater than their self-dealing selves that will be the downfall of the modern Republican party.
We are already seeing this in the disaffected disgust that seeps out among Republican moderates and libertarians and the so-called “Reagan democrats” who are sickened once the mist of public relations haze gets wiped away a bit. All the tap-dancing in the world cannot obscure this fact: these people are all arguing that a felon, convicted of multiple counts, who abused his position of power to endanger covert national security agents and assets as directed by the Vice President of the United States, a man who was more interested in keeping his public image intact than continuing work on nuclear weapons proliferation in Iran, among other things — that these people are the ones to whom the entire Republican party has been swearing fealty and obedience for the last six years? They are not to be trusted. And anyone who says otherwise is not to be trusted either.
The web of lies and half-truths and manipulative machinations has been laid bare for what it truly is: a raw seizure of as much power as they could hold, for their own purposes, ends justifies the means and the rest of the nation be damned.
There can be no pardon for Scooter Libby. No commutation of sentence. And all of the screaming neocons who are so hell-bent on a PR campaign for one know that already. For in pardoning Libby or excusing him from serving time in prison via commutation of sentence, George Bush would be confirming publicly the one thing that he has been trying so hard to conceal…from himself: that he does not run things, Dick Cheney does.
(AP Photo/Charles Dharapak. H/T to Swopa for the find.)
UPDATE: Realworld makes a point in the comments that needs to be said out loud here:
I Think the WaPo POC is very clever. What is being suggested is that we take away all real disincentive to obstruction and perjury by commuting the jail time but that we also not pardon him so that he can still take the 5′th. Hmm, I like that, too sophisticated for the MSM to pick up on. A real split the baby strategy except justice gets the diaper.
It is a weasel maneuver from Libby’s supporters to allow Libby to continue to be the Cheney firewall, while never having to pay any price in terms of prison time for doing so. No. Absolutely not. Without a full pardon, Libby would maintain his ability to assert his 5th Amendment privilege, and thus would not be subject to subpoena by Congress for oversight on this issue — as he would still be able to assert the 5th while appealing his sentence. This is an attempted cheat, a stall tactic and a delay — and ought to be called for what it truly is: a manipulation of our system of justice, disrespectful of the rule of law, and an appalling attempt to continue to cover for Dick Cheney at the nation’s expense.
Yesterday, Dan Froomkin had a link to a Bruce Fein op-ed in the Washington Times that was spot on in this regard:
Lewis “Scooter” Libby deserves a stiff prison term to deter his erstwhile Bush administration colleagues, for example, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and White House political guru Karl Rove, from equivocating with Congress and the courts. A stiff punishment is imperative also to honor the rule of law, the nation’s crown jewel.Libby committed his crimes while chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, serving under oath to support the Constitution of the United States. He was a role model for youths because of his position and prestige. His prevarications to the FBI and grand jury were reminiscent of former President Clinton’s perjury and obstruction of justice that occasioned his impeachment by a Republican-controlled House of Representatives. U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton should reject Mr. Libby’s plea for an anemic sentence of probation.
Nothing is as dangerous to the Constitution’s checks and balances and protections against government abuses as a belief among high-ranking officials that they are above the law and may lie or connive with impunity. Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis sermonized in Olmstead v. United States (1928): “In a government of laws, existence of government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it invites everyman to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy.”
Truthful testimony is the lifeblood of the rule of law. Justice John Paul Stevens elaborated in ABF Freight System, Inc. v. NLRB (1994): “False testimony in a formal proceeding is intolerable. We must neither reward nor condone such a ‘flagrant affront’ to the truth-seeking function of adversary proceedings.” Yet Libby, thoroughly schooled in his constitutional obligations, lied to both the FBI and a grand jury during special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald’s investigation of the leak of Valerie Plame’s CIA nexus. Libby was convicted of false statements, perjury and obstruction of justice. Mr. Fitzgerald, a highly regarded Republican United States attorney, was appointed by then Attorney General John Ashcroft. Libby was not the victim of a political witch hunt.
Fein is a former Deputy Attorney General in the Reagan Administration. He has been a conservative, and one with whom I generally disagree, on a regular basis. But in this, he is spot on: the rule of law is not a convenience, and in our society you cannot simply bursh it aside because your party is, for the moment, in power. If anything, when you hold such a position of power, you ought to hold yourself and be held to a higher adherence to the rule of law — because such scrupulous conduct when you are working on the public’s dime strengthens the reputation of the government as a whole.
Calls for a pardon and/or commutation are an attempt to set aside the basic principles of government in a noblesse oblige return to a pseudo-monarchy wherein loyalty to the crown is rewarded above all else. No thank you. No pardon. No commutation. No way.
Related posts:
- The Bush Fairy Tale on the Libby Pardon
- New White House Counsel Bob Bauer and Scooter Libby Justice
- The Taxpayers Paid Dick Cheney’s Personal Defense Attorney to Obstruct Any Inquiries Into His Crimes
- Executive Privilege and the Cheney Interview Documents
- DOJ Still Feels Ripples of CIA Leak; Lanny Breuer Still Has Conflicts





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zed?
At the risk of appearing fixated, I posted the following elsewhere and generated only a bit of response.
These are basic issues aren’t they? You’ve got someone heading the most powerful military in the world who has injected himself into a debate that has no connection or relationship to his office. What was Truman and MacArthur all about anyway?:
A man named Peter Pace wrote American Federal Court Judge Reggie B. Walton on behalf of Mr. Libby.
Mr. Pace is a general in the United States Marine Corps and at the moment is the Chief of Staff for the American Armed forces. Pace told the judge that, from his association with Libby, Libby was always concerned about the “the right way to proceed – legally and morally” “not just what was in the best interests of the country.”
The general signed his letter as, “General, United States Marine Corps.”
One has to wonder about the propriety of this.
The temptations for those shopping for sentencing support are many and the temptation to seek a commendation from the military’s Chief of Staff are no doubt powerful indeed. One can understand why those supporting Scooter Libby might ask. General Pace’s scrambled eggs in a country in a time of war could be a powerful and toney endorsement.
But one has to think twice as to why, “Peter Pace, General, United States Marine Corps” might be tempted to oblige.
The General has the responsibility to execute the directives of the President of the United States.
He does not have a duty to make life easier for the President or his associates and friends and the General does not exercise the office of Chief of Staff as either a political or personal fixer for any of the administration whom he is to serve. He does not have the duty to be the friend of Scooter Libby and indeed his letter seems to step lightly to make sure that it does not leave the impression that he is. Surely this is as axiomatic for Administration officials as it ought to be to senior American military leadership itself.
So why would General Pace do this?
He was not speaking as a colleague of Mr. Libby’s although there are no doubt many who can attest to Libby’s public record in which “the right way” was usually – although not always, the conviction proves– his byword. Pace and Libby had no record of personal cooperation, through charity or church-synagogue or public interest or professional work.
So while there were many who attested to Libby’s character to this Judge who could speak from the vantage point of personal experience and long and intimate knowledge, General Pace could not.
In writing this letter, one is left with the impression that he is left amongst those of the referees in this sentencing who was added not because of the substance of what he could say, but the fact that it was America’s highest uninformed officer who was saying it.
With no personal motivation, with the recognition – which could not have escaped General Pace– that there may others who were in a far better position of knowledge and experience to speak kindly of Mr. Libby, the General’s letter risks being marked as nothing more than the act of granting a personal favour.
And that in turn, opens the door to cynical questions of whether there was a favour, or the expectation of a favour, in return.
In doing this, this risks the question the next time he, or another high ranking officer of the American military stands to give evidence before a committee of the US Congress or is cited before the United Nations or is deferred to in the myriad of press briefings as a source of direct military information and advice, the General is risking doubt as to what favours they have been asked to grant and what favours had been given or expected in return.
Mornin’ Christy!
Morning all — got delayed a little with the WordPress upgrade. Now for more coffee… :)
Good morning Christy!
I like the site changes.
Thanks egregious — we tried to come up with a way to streamline things a little bit and give everyone a cleaner read. I think this works well. :)
Just one credible national Dem to call Libby’s activities “treason.”
It’s not so much to ask, is it?
Let’s frame the issue in a way the public really gets.
Right now Reps are framing the Libby question as a pardon issue, not a treason issue.
These people will show no contrition because they believe they can do no wrong and that extremism in defense of their mission is justified.
If Scootercritter were to show contrition to the court and the peiople he would be admitting that what he did… what they did was in fact wrong.
Instead he will try to overturn on appeal and then hope for a pardon and never admit to doing anything wrong.
These people are repulsive and they have stolen from our treasury, destroyed a nation, killed hundreds of thousands of people, tortured hundreds… lying to a grand jury? That is so insignificant to these people it is laughable.
Laws mean nothing to them. They have no ethics and no morals… They worship money and power… and they have all of it now.
Very incriminating in terms of knowledge and motive.
Great post, Christy
I am immersed in Assault on Reason and your post goes so well with the book. What we do here is the reason and I think that the neocons could never have seen us coming and we will be their undoing…by using our reason.
good morning, all… coffee is ready – hold out your cups…
Somethin’s wrong with these people.
I Think the WaPo POC is very clever. What is being suggested is that we take away all real disincentive to obstruction and perjury by commuting the jail time but that we also not pardon him so that he can still take the 5′th. Hmm, I like that, too sophisticated for the MSM to pick up on. A real split the baby strategy except justice gets the diaper.
I had security clearances at one time. I was in the process of being upgraded from Secret level to Top Secret. As part of the process, I was interviewed and in answer to one question, I gave a “Yes, but…” answer.
I was caveating the protect classified information with the stament that if I were to become aware of an illegal operation such as Iran/Contra (the specific case I used), then it was my duty as a citizen to let the appropriate people know about the operation.
The investigators and clearance people did NOT like the answer I provided. I lost all clearances as I had “equivocated my desire to protect classified information.” I guess they felt it was good faith as my then employer was not required to fire me.
But it was a conscious decision and I knew that it was a risk on my part. I have to believe that just as I knew what I was doing and saying, so did Scooter.
Stop the presses!
Brrrrrrrrrrrrrreakkkkkkinggggg: Paris Hilton has been released!
Scooter who?
OT, from the Union-Leader in Manchester Romney praises personal retirement accts. Not really that much of a surprise.
Long time lurker – first time responder.
Thanks to you all for being ‘on top of things’.
It is certainly refreshing.
CNuck—
Welcome to the lake!
Hope to hear from you often.
Christy Hardin Smith says:
It’s true that the Neocons lie to themselves when they think it’s reasonable and justifiable to tell “Noble lies” to the American people in service of their “elite” group.
One rule I try to adhere to in life is to stay away from people who believe their own lies. There’s nothing you can do with people like this other than to keep them far, far away. Unfortunately, we’ve all had to continue to deal with their sociopathic mindset for the past 7 years.
It’s been an awful nightmare and it doesn’t provide any comfort that we’re all experiencing it together. The only way out is sunlight and bringing these criminals to justice. I personally don’t care if the Neocons ever believe they’ve committed wrongdoing. All that counts is that WE KNOW IT, understand it and must do what we can to shed light on it.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/7/05210/66832
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..82434/8934
http://www.vanityfair.com/poli…..rentPage=1
- Tom
Blair @2, interesting thoughts.
snowbird42 @10, I have Assault on Reason on hold at the library, all 8 copies are checked out.
This process has been so enlightening. Thanks Emptywheel, Jane, Christy et al! We have proof of these people thinking they are above the law, and as many of us suspected, James Carville is full o’ crap.
Ya think anyone has noticed Abu Gonzalez is still Attorney General?
June 7th, 2007 at 6:11 am
mornin’ Christy:
Indeed, the Wolfowitz letter shows that Libby knew the consequences of revealing the “status” of a CIA operative. As evidence introduced in the CIA leak case proved, Cheney had confided the secret to him and ordered him to spread it.
Sorry to be a contrarian, but: After a suitable period, say (45-60 days) of Republican shrieking at GWB to essentially drop the pretense of being a law-and-order guy who was in any way concerned with finding out who betrayed Valerie Plame, and to then go ahead and hypocritically pardon Libby – well, I’ve got no huge problem with it. Move on to the bigger fish – Cheney, who is the man I’ve wanted to see taken down by this whole thing anyway.
Scooter gets pardoned – Scooter loses his 5th rights, and embarks on his new career as a permanent witness up on the Hill.
My $.02
Thanks #17.
noble lies
Hmm, sounds like the same rationale an abusive guy uses when he beats his wife &/or kids.
when I tried “Preview”, all of the stuff I’d typed in the Text box disappeared. Had to copy and paste from the preview box to get it back.
I’m gonna try to edit now.
edit: seems to work fine.
Good morning, all.
The wave of calls for Libby’s pardon from the right-wing pols and pundits is completely predictable. I can’t help but recall Sen. Hutchinson from Texas calling perjury and obstruction of justice “technicalities” on Meet the Press.
Just another example of the “law and order” conservatives cherry-picking their vigilance to justice. Absolutely appalling.
Great post, Christy–and I really like the site redesign. It IS much easier on the eyes!
There is fun to be had with those letters for months–maybe years. Most of them do seem awfully formulaic. And then there are some, lke that of Wolfowitz, who are using it not only as an opportunity to pad Scooter’s resume, but there own. Wolfie, who must be desperately job-hunting right about now, for one. Because as he “lists’ all of Scooter’s accomplishments, he is really listing his own (since Scooter worked for Him!).
My favorite letter has to be the one from Cheney’s self-described old friend, Alan Simpson, who wrote that Scooter’s cheif character attribute was Loyalty. And that he deseverved to have the accolade “The Good Soldier” emblazoned upon his brow!
Makes one wonder if Simpson was writing the letter, which he ‘had’ to write (can’t say no to Dick and Lynne) with a certain amount of tongue in cheek. Or if he, like Wolfie and Pace, are so blinded by their worn hubris eand self-righteousness, that they just don’t see how foolish they are.
In other related news, there was a rather juicy fired USA scandal Doc dump last night. It seems that Monica was, shall we say, less than candid, in her testimony before the House.
jayt @ 21
And having committed obstruction of justice once and gotten off scott free, why then would you expect that Libby would not just continue to lie to protect his masters? What use would he be as a witness if there is no penalty for making false statements?
EPU’d from previous thread. Not really too OT, ’cause it involves Cheney:
Today’s WaPo buries on p. A3 a story that Cheney “told [DOJ] officials he disagreed with their objections” to the warrantless wiretap program.
Such expression by the VP came at a meeting one day before Card & AbuG went on their little “get well visit” to Ashcroft’s hospital room.
To someone’s credit, the headline on the story is: Official: Cheney Urged Wiretaps.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..amp;sub=AR
I updated above — H/T to realworld on that. Meant to make that point earlier, but I was in a rush to finish this once the site update got finished.
jayt @ 24 –
same thing happened to me! and i’d just entered 5 links… argh!
guess there’s bound to be some hiccups after all the redecorating (which btw, looks great).
Christy -
What are your thoughts concerning this yesterday afternoon TNH post by Marcy? Hold > Get Agency to Answer That …
CHS-
Excellent post!
U made me laugh = FFFH..hehehe.
I also liked the dig at the end,
“…George Bush would be confirming publicly the one thing that he has been trying so hard to conceal…from himself: that he does not run things, Dick Cheney does.“
What a kick in the crotch to the boy who would be king!
ironranger @ 23
With regard to “Noble Lies” it is worth noting that this is right out of the Neo-Con handbook as written by one Leo Strauss, political science professor at U of Chicago, where many of the current crop (including Wolfie) were indoctrinated.
How do they keep their heads from exploding? Seriously? They make MY head explode.
Perjury is OH SO VERY SERIOUS, THINK OF THE CHILDREN, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO TELL THE CHILDREN when it’s about a BJ – and it’s an impeachable freaking offense, remember.
Convict a guy of it in Court, by a jury not running for re-election, when it is in regards to a TREASONABLE offense, and then it’s all ok, cuz you know he is such a good guy, he’s loyal and everything!
BOOM. There goes my head.
You know the part that saddens me the most? That there are this many people, in this country and more, in positions of power, who apparently have no ethics, no decency, no basic goodness, and no remorse. This swamp really needs to be drained.
What *will* we tell the children?
CNuck @ 16
Nothing like a dip in the Lake eh CNuck?
Welcome!
Blair at 2 – Do you have any speculation of what favor they did for Pace to pave the way for asking for a return of it? What hot water has he been in?
Wolfie is great! Scooter worked to keep a spy FROM being outed before he met Valerie, YES! the ignorance defense is off the table in the battle for public opinion. The Right seems to be trying to manufacture a “Popular Movement ” to free Scooter they want it to appear that Bush’s hand was FORCED by popular opinion to Pardon Scooter. They DON’T want it to appear that President Bush is covering up his own crimes.
This story thats been put out by the press that Bush can pardon Scooter because he is SO low in the polls he can’t get any lower is BUNK. Scooter could be the last straw for a lot of 30%ers who have been hanging on or at the very least it will DEMORALIZE Bush’s base and make them less enthusastic about voting in the next election. The longer we keep this story in the press the more DEMORALISED Bush’s base gets as Time gives them more chance to learn that Hannity was wrong again and yes we were RIGHT ALL ALONG!
Clever update on the quoting comments! No more nested quoting–if you want to quote something from a previous comment, it will have to be done by hand. Good job! I like the smaller fonts as well.
Redshift says
June 7th, 2007 at 6:22 am
jayt @ 21
And having committed obstruction of justice once and gotten off scott free, why then would you expect that Libby would not just continue to lie to protect his masters? What use would he be as a witness if there is no penalty for making false statements?
good point. But Scoots *has* seen that even such an important man as himself can be convicted and sentenced to serious time.
And I just don’t see any way that even this admin would pardon him twice. I think that the only thing currently even giving GWB some bit of pause is that it would reflect badly on his “legacy” (such as it is). Can’t see him doing it twice – but I do see some congressional Dem spine which would end in some serious questioning of what did in fact happen.
And if he gets a “blanket” pardon, may be a way to find out about all sorts of things (Cheney’s Energy Commission, e.g.)
ok… let’s see if i can do this w/o using preview…
fyi – here are some of today’s hearings from the schedule:
Thursday, Jun. 7, 2007
9:30 am
Senate Armed Serivces
To consider the nomination of Lieutenant General Douglas E. Lute, USA, to be Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor for Iraq and Afghanistan. [war czar]
10 am
Senate Judiciary
Business Meeting to consider Bills, Nominations and Resolutions.
Bills include: S. 185, Habeas Corpus Restoration Act of 2007
2 pm
Senate Judiciary
To hold hearings to examine S.453, to prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections.
2 pm
House Judiciary
Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties
Oversight Hearing on the Constitutional Limitations on Domestic Surveillance
Are there any polls that measure the enthusiam or demoraliztion of Democratics and Republicans? I mean sure Bush is low in the polls but with all the bad news about Iraq, Scooter, Dragon Skin Vests etc President Bush’s supporters must be either one step off the bridge or on happy pills. Either way I don’t think they are going to work to hard next election for ANY Republicans!
As I said before, I am a newcomer, and a little old. Not too good with the computer thingy – but boy, DO I LOVE THIS SITE! Again, thanks for the welcome.
Blair @ 2:
I have’t had time to read Pace’s letter (or any of them for that matter), but when I saw that he had submitted one my reaction was a WTF alarm, just like yours. That was totally out of bounds for any active duty military person, let alone a serving Chair of the JCS, regardless of what side of the matter he came down on. I guess the sensitivity of my radar for politicalization of the military was cranked up by a couple of orders of magnitude over the past few weeks as I read Mikey Weinstein’s With God On Our Side just a few weeks ago.
the commenter above who raised the issue of, once again, where are the dems on this has it right.
how hard is it really to say the obvious: that libby must serve his (appallingly light) sentence for breaking the laws of this country, and breaching the faith public servants hold with the people, all in service of an authoritarian regime?
and why, might i ask, isn’t rove denied security clearance given what came out at trial about his dissemination of classified info?
senate armed services committee hearing…
carl levin is giving a blistering opening statement – general lute has been nominated to bring to coherance to an incoherant policy.
CNuck welcome to the site. I feel welcome and I’m in my fifties while Snark aka Cassie is in high school.
I can see no reason why Bush will not pardon Libby, or at least commute his sentence. It’s not like his popularity could get any lower. Would it really be any worse than standing behind Gonzo after his “I forgot everything” testimony? Unless there’s some hidden thing, like someone said he’s a firewall, he’s going to get pardoned.
Will it have any effect on anything? At this point, I doubt it. Unless the Democrats want to impeach Bush and Cheney, I see no reason why they would change their behavior at all. They have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.
In Froomkin’s Chat (not column) yesterday, a commenter noted an interesting letter from John Bolton:
Oops. I guess being a BushCo minion is hard work.
Sorry, for some reason Christy’s quote didn’t go through last time:
Christy Hardin Smith says:
It’s true that the Neocons lie to themselves when they think it’s reasonable and justifiable to tell “Noble lies” to the American people in service of their “elite” group.
One rule I try to adhere to in life is to stay away from people who believe their own lies. There’s nothing you can do with people like this other than to keep them far, far away. Unfortunately, we’ve all had to continue to deal with their sociopathic mindset for the past 7 years.
It’s been an awful nightmare and it doesn’t provide any comfort that we’re all experiencing it together. The only way out is sunlight and bringing these criminals to justice. I personally don’t care if the Neocons ever believe they’ve committed wrongdoing. All that counts is that WE KNOW IT, understand it and must do what we can to shed light on it.
Firing Carol Lam Was a CRIME, Stupid
Found: Rove’s Playbook for Attorney Scandal
Washington Babylon
- Tom
Welcome CNuck Im almost 65 and I cant type well at all.
Didn’t go through for a second time. Forget it. Please disregard where I attempted to quote.
Blue e at 36:
Don’t know, but maybe more important than any favour is the culture that these folks have created.
You are a country at war The war is political, the general is not supposed to be; politics needs spin and oath helping — the generals, particularly this one, are in a position to give it; the war effort is being delivered through private corporations — we all know the one that leads the pack: that needs cover–the general is in a position to give it.
I think the danger here lies more in that the general is in a position to do favours, the administration certainly needs them, and now –on my read of this letter, anyway, there’s at least reason to think that the general’s so non-chalantly prepared to give them.
I’d be nervous if I were south of the 49th paralllel.
One rule I try to adhere to in life is to stay away from people who believe their own lies.
And thus, I am a divorced man.
GeorgeSimian @ 47:
John Dean at FindLaw put a post up a few days back that asserts that a pardon may be risky for Dubya. Worthwhile checking out.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070601.html
JPL @ 46 – Thanks to you too.
Nixon and all of his henchmen should have done jail time. North should have done jail time. Poindexter should have done jail time, Reagan should have done jail time (conspiracy to overthrow the government of the US would have been an appropriate conviction), Bush (Chimpy) should have been precluded from the Presidency by virtue of his status as a convicted felon (had he, appropriately, been charged and convicted of insider trading, back in the day).
We need to mete out justice most harsh for white collar criminals, political criminals, and those convicted of crimes that can only be discribed as treason. Harsh punishment. There was notewothy value in Britian’s hoisting of a convicted and executed felon’s body onto a lamp post for the public to see and the birds to pick clean.
“Don’t go there”, quoth the raven.
Be sure to check out the comments on Otis’ op-ed, they’re quite juicy:
and the wingnuts are nearly as entertaining:
Well, ‘jd’, you’re half right, if you’re referring to loyalty to Bush rather than loyalty to the American people and his oath of office. But I rather think we’re better off if such people are “chased away from government.”
Love the site redesign. FYI, it loads much faster! That’s a real treat for this dial-up user.
I hadve always been of good cheer that Bush would not pardon, because it would free Scoter’s testimony from Fifth Amendment constraints. ONLY this self-interest on the part of the President would prevent him from a baseless, crass exercise of power. Moral scruples won’t. Public Relations considrations won’t. The threat of damage to his party won’t. So the idea of commutation has me a bit depressed. So here’s my idea:
Get Scooter in front of Congress RIGHT NOW to ask him about Darth’s involvement in the Plame outing. Let him plead the Fifth or continue his lies. (Telling the truth is probably not in the cards, but you never know.) The point is to demonstrate in a real way what realworld has suggested, that a commutation is nothing more that Presidential obstruction of justice, perhaps conspiratorily. Maybe get him on some NEW lies that can be prosecuted anew (eventually, there won’t be a co-cnspirator/President to conmmute/pardon) I’m not sure it wil work, but it’s worth a try.
Thoughts?
Christy. Right you are:
That’s where the average citizen should discern a behavioral boundary, even when the heart or the mind is tempted to cross. But the Bush-Cheney criminal family consists of compromised citizens, who demand more benefits than the rest of us while recognizing no obligation to the rule of law except as a tool to steal power and profits from others.
This bunch doesn’t even live up to this unacceptably low standard: “loyalty to one’s friends.” Their letters praise his loyalty, but no one returns it. They’re willing to ask that he not be sent to jail, but they haven’t been willing to risk their own necks for their “friend.” And Cheney–bless his cold, mechanical heart–remains as silent as he was during the investigation and the trial. He still hasn’t stepped up to admit what everybody knows: that his “friend” was breaking the law on his behalf, probably under criminally explicit instructions.
Don’t feel sorry for the “friends” of Libby, but recognize that those who wrote letters are trying to weasel out of what they recognize as a betrayal, even by their withered set of values. They’ll continue to pursue leniency and pardon for their “friend” because he might betray them, too, and because it will be easier for them to enjoy their freedom, their power, and their profits if Scooter isn’t mad at them.
Mauimom @ 28
This is an important story. Comey describes a meeting that included WH counsel Gonzales, Cheney and Cheney counsel Addington the day before the Wednesday Night attempted mugging of Ashcroft.
We can now guess why Comey knew he was dealing with thugs when Mrs. Ashcroft phoned to warn him that they were on their way to the hospital.
And with Cheney intervening directly in firing of DoJ attorneys, we have a whole new avenue of inquiry. Not just Rove, not just Miers, but also the VP of the US treated the Department of Justice as something they could intimidate and manipulate.
Have you read the answers to Rep Linda Sanchez question to Comey?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/sanchez-comey/
These are quite interesting
How does Scooter justify his Nobel Lie about Not outing one of our spies working on Nuclear Proliferation in the Middle East? What possible “greater good ” could be served by such a WEASEL ACT? Why not tell the truth I mean are us Plebians really so dense that we would not understand? Or is the problem that Scooter really doesn’t understand himself because he switches off the judgment faculty in his mind when given an order? Its sad to think that if you become a member of the Ruling Class the price of admission is obedience past reason.
of all the libby support letters, the one that depressed me the most was the one from anthony fauci. he’s shown signs before of being (whatever his scientific abilities) a political hack. so sad to learn he really is just that.
selise @ 63made me sad too. my wife was going to go work for Fauci. now I’m not so sure.
BTW, here’s something to keep in mind:
President Bush is a, erm, “witness of fact” in the Scooter Libby affair. If he acts, it kind of takes whatever bloom is left off Abu’s rose on that frequently-employed canard, one would think.
Scooter should be granted specific immunity for crimes he committed in the commission of the conspiracy – with the caveat that failure to respond to subsequent questions relating to the matter in a truthful manner, and with full disclosure of the facts to which he was a party (or crimes in which he participated), would result in a mandatory penalty of 25 years at hard labor without the possibility of pardon and/or commutation and/or early release.
We need to get tough with these thugs – they won’t understand anything else.
froggermarch @ 59
I think that the danger of Libby’s being hauled up before a congressional committee is the only thing which is preventing Bush from issuing an immediate pardon.
It is worth remembering that when all of this was going down, and when it broke, the Goopers were in charge of congress, and they could not fathom that they would not be for the foreseeable future. The idea of a Dem Congress who would be willing and anxious to hold oversight hearings was never in the cards when Libby was engaged in his justice obstructing activites. Or, for that matter, when he was indicted by Fitz.
If Scooter is pardoned, he will no longer have the right to plead the 5th, since he is already immunized by the pardon. He would however, be subject to prosecution for contempt of congress (should he refuse to testify) or perjury and obstruction (once again!) if he lies again.
Some pickle.
Hmmm . . . my comment @ 48 got the quote cut out. Let’s try again.
In Froomkin’s Chat (not column) yesterday, a commenter noted an interesting letter from John Bolton:
Oops. I guess being a BushCo minion is hard work.
Can these letters be used as evidence for the Wilson civil suit? If so, I’d think that the Wolfowitz anecdote would be very interesting to discuss with Libby.
John Dean was on Olbermann last night discussing this. I think the gist of his comments was that Bushco is being very clever with this situation. They are “letting” or encouraging their (out of the administration) forces to push for the pardon, while they stay silent. Apparently discussing the pardon within the administration could cause trouble to the Prez and his men because it could also lead to “obstruction” charges against them. Did I get that right? Which was the problem with Nixon discussing possible pardons of his men.
Minnesotachuck @ 54
OK, I read it. Cheney would look like he’s conspiring to obstruct justice and it would send a bad message to the American people about what Bush/Cheney thinks of the law.
Do you really think they care? Remember what’s going on with Gonzo, and I think there is much more at stake with that than Libby. Libby is going to get pardoned because Bush and Cheney do whatever they want.
Until someone takes their power away, they are going to keep doing whatever they want. They have said as much. Bush, Cheney and Gonzo have repeatedly said to Congress essentially, “if you think you can do something about what we are doing, then do it. We dare you.”
WAY off topic:
Anyone know that Rudy Giuliani had a member of the press arrested for asking a question at a previous press conference? Story here.
Great post Christy. Bruce Fein has also stood up against Gonzo. Guess there are some Repubs with scruples.
What I find interesting about the Libby letters is what it says if we take them at face value. If one accepts their statements that Libby was fundamentally a decent, loving, honest, loyal, hard-working patriot, open, etc, etc, — then one has to ask … why would/did such a man knowingly commit perjury and obstruct justice? And for whom? The letter writers never gapple with the fact that he was convicted of multiple counts by a jury who also believed he was all the things the letter writers claim. He lied; he obstructed justice — those are now proven facts.
By describing a man who should never have done these things, but did, the letters inadvertently make a compelling case for looking beyond Libby to the man/men who directed him.
The reference to SF-312 confirmed my memory that, for anyone with a security clearance, it was a violation to either reveal or to confirm classified information. Obviously, without the second provision, a little Socratic questioning would lead to legal revalation of clasified info.
What I don’t understand then, is why Rove, Armitage, etc., were not indictable for haveing either revealed or confirmed information which remained classified. Any answers?
TexB @ 73
TexB–it wouldn’t surprise me one bit, as that is the kind of behavior that those of us who lived in NYC during the Ghouliani years, came to expect.
I’m having a lot of trouble with the site update (not griping, just trying to help with debugging.) I’m on Firefox 2.0.0.4.
- blockquote doesn’t work at all (which is why my last comment doesn’t make much sense.) It shows up in preview, but not the posted comment.
- “quote this comment” doesn’t quote the comment, it just adds a link to it. (If that’s intentional, it should probably be changed to “reply to this comment.”)
- none of the buttons above the comment box do anything.
- my name shows as “null” in preview (but appears when the comment is posted.)
- line breaks don’t show in preview. They appear to work in the final posted comment.
- most important, if I post a comment, it never returns from “your comment will appear shortly,” the comment fields remain disabled, and I have to reload the page to see my comment or be able to post any more.
Other than that, I love the new look! ;-)
CNuck @ 42
Welcome to the Lake. Yes, this is a fabulous site.
When you connect the dots between Cheney’s involvement in sending Scoots out to do his dirty work (ie to undo the damage to the administration’s claims about WMD done by Wilson) and his central role in promulgating an as yet unclear secret surveillance program, there emerges a picture of lawlessness, absolutely breathtaking in its brazenness.
The case for impeachment of Cheney and his out-of-control VP office is gaining momentum. As these issues play out-and I believe we will be hearing much more about the surveillance program and the Plame matter-it will be very difficult for the Congress to ignore Cheney’s role as the chief lawbreaker of the adminstration.
Woodhall Hollow @ 77
I was there too 1992-1998.
Redshift—
Thanks for the list. We are still working on a few things.
Thanks everyone for your patience!
I think the worst curse any of us could wish on the neocons, Scooter included, is that they suddenly develop a consciense with a heightened awareness of all the bloodshed that has been spilled and continues to spill because of a gross deception perpetrated on the public by themselves.
Re: 25 & Technicality. This is one of my favorites and so glad you brought it up. I actually wrote a letter to the editor here, and it got published to reflect that I had never thought of lying, as a violation of the Ten Commandment, = a technicality. O well. In their world. The other thing I really like about the letters about the decent man is how they recall all the all truisms about Birds of a Feather….Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas,….You tell me with whom you GO, and I will tell you who you ARE. No wonder more of the cronies need to jump ship: Does anyone really want to be friends with Gonzo, Kennyboy, Shooter, Skooter, Rummy, Brownie, Wolfo, Ari, TurdBlossom? I have to stop; about to gag. This could be a new parlor game to Name All the Liars with nick names.
Woodhall Hollow @ 68
I get that Bush won’t PARDON for all those reasons. But what bothers me is Christy’s (and other’s)opiniion that a COMMUTATION would not carry that same downside for Bush.
I do like the idea of Congress taking the lead and granting him limited immunity. If there is a commutation, but not a pardon, it would be an acknowledgement by the president that a crime was committed (but that the punishment was too harsh.) In that case, asking the perp to testify on the higher ups (Prez and Vice-Prez) would be a perfectly logical rejoinder and the ability by Scooter to take the Fifth could be trumped by limited immunity for further prosectuion. If he lies anew, all bets are then off and the cycle would repeat until we get a new President in.
You know, commuting Libby’s sentence while not outright pardoning him WOULD be diabolically clever – he gets the get-out-of-jail-free card without losing his 5th amendment rights – and cannot be forced to testify against the rest of the usual suspects.
Peterr @ 69
Trying again to insert a quote from that Froomkin chat . . .
OK, it looks good in preview, but it looked good in preview before. Hitting “submit comment” . . .
in regard to realworld @ 12’s comment as well as “This is an attempted cheat, a stall tactic and a delay — and ought to be called for what it truly is: a manipulation of our system of justice, disrespectful of the rule of law, and an appalling attempt to continue to cover for Dick Cheney at the nation’s expense.“
I noticed in the Op-ed a talking point coming out now which I heard not only on C-SPAN’s Washington Journal, but from Sean Hannity (via someone on Air America), for all the stupid people out there: “Why did Sandy Berger not get the same treatment as Scooter?”
As for the issue of the pardon or not, Bush has shown time and time again that he doesn’t care what the rules are, he does it anyway. See the file under “Bolton, John” or that Ambassador to Belgium who was a Swiftie and lied to Congress about it. Bush has proven time and time again that he is the decider and does whatever he wants.
I think the issue is that, if pardoned, Libby would indeed not be able to take the 5th in testifying to Congress, which is what the White House is really worried about. It is kind of silly in a sense, because Libby is obviously just as much a proven liar as Abu Gonzalez, Lorita Doan, Brad Scholzman or, as now proven, Monica Goodling is.
Congress, even with Dems in control has not really thrown down the gauntlet in regard to all the perjury that is going on in front of them. I wish they would grow some real stones and do something about all of this lying. It is really not all that difficult a case to make, even from a PR standpoint. If you ask me, beyond the war vote, why Democrat approval is lagging, it is because they are not using the power of their convictions to make things happen. Instead, they are still trying very hard to please everyone rather than to say “these are principals we stand for and we will follow the courage of our convictions” The GOP does it all the time – why can’t the Dems do that?
Scarecrow @ 74 –
even if true, that “Libby was fundamentally a decent, loving, honest, loyal, hard-working patriot, open, etc, etc” – this in no way is incompatible with being guilty of obstruction of justice.
i’d be more interested in learning that, in the past, libby had always refrained from making personal attacks on political adversaries…. or that in the past, he’d always refrained from using confidential or secret information for personal, professional or political gain.
this doesn’t, in anyway, contradict your conclusion that we should be asking why he did obstruct justice (cheney told him to?).
Are there any penalties that congress, acting on its own, can levy against individuals that lie to them in committee hearings?
OT
on the subject Mauimom @ 23
is it possible that it was Cheney (or an assistant such as Scooter)who called Mrs. Ashcroft, and not the President?
Oh how about the letter from Donald H. Rumsfeld:
Never! Not! Keep away from kids!
Nope. Still no quoted comments.
I’m in the same boat as Redshift @ 78. Let me add one thing: First I tried using my own blockquote tags, and got nothing when posted. When I use the “quote” button above the box, it puts in the blockquote tags for me, but the result is still nothing.
Not trying to whine — just giving info to the techies as they try to sort this out!
froggermarch @ 84
Ahh, I see your point. And it makes sense, because once Scooter’s sentence has been commuted, there would be no downside to granting him immunity. But better than congress doing it, I would rather see Fitz do it, as he would have the back-story info which would entrap Scooter if he tried to lie some more. Much more dangerous for Scooter. And more importantly, Cheney.
I forgot to add something to earlier comment under #87.
I understand why they’re not calling for impeachment, it would be too much of a circus because impeachment is purely political and can be painted as partisan.
Perjury, on the other hand, is not partisan. It subtly has the same effect of going through the impeachment process without allowing the GOP supporters any political cover.
mui @ 91
Is blockquote working now?
(the new design makes it easier to watch a hearing and read fdl at the same time.)
“Truthful testimony is the lifeblood of the rule of law.”
I was a little confused yesterday when I read Froomkin’s quote from a Washington Times editorial, but now it makes sense. We’re deep into the house of mirrors when people like Fein, Philbin (LAT article on Cheney blocking his promotion–more evidence of the CHS point about Cheney running things, with a reminder that Comey had to go around Cheney and have a private meeting with Bush to prevent the DoJ resignations), Ashcroft and others are making sense. Blumenthal saying that Fitz is an upstanding Repub and the investigation was far from a partisan witchhunt is a great point.
But the above line on false testimony is the main thing that struck me. Schlozman was latest, “egregiousest” (!) example, but it has just been one weak, dissembling, obfuscating, perfidious, false testimony and committee appearance after another all year long–break out all the five dollar words you know. And the Attorney General is the poster boy for this frontal attack on the truth and the rule of law. The difference between the people telling the truth, like Comey, Plame, and Graves, and the liars like Gonzo, Sampson, Schlozman, Goodling, Doan and others is stark and obvious every time C-Span 3 shows it to us.
Combine FFFH’s remote authoring via Otis of the case for commutation with Rutenberg’s explainer on the whys behind Libby’s missing pardon, and we’ve got a full court press.
They’ve already decided on commutation and it’s just a matter of when they’ll follow through.
Has always bugged me that not only did Libby sign multiple SF-312’s during his career, but that he was supposed to be an expert on national security, his last title having been Assistant to the Vice President for National Security Affairs. He’d also been legal adviser for the House Select Committee on U.S. National Security and Military/Commercial Concerns in regards to China. How does this guy not have a higher f*cking duty to defend our national intelligence resources?
Knowing this, why did he never take affirmative actions to preserve intelligence related to Plame and the work she did — unless he was part of a conspiracy to disclose it?
“I understand why they’re not calling for impeachment, it would be too much of a circus because impeachment is purely political and can be painted as partisan.”
I disagree with this. Removing someone from office is a “political” but there’s nothing wrong with that. Voting for a bill is a political act; holding investigative hearings is a political act; arguing against/for policies is a political act. A vote of no confidene is a political act, but in some governments, it is also the means for removing from office those who have lost the consent of the governed. Impeachment is there for that reason.
Political acts are what we hire/elect politicians to do.
twolf1 @ 95
For me it would seem so. Where’s Judy’s letter. She among all these luminaries is missing.
twolf1 @ 95
Looking good.
1. I agree with everything expressed by Ms. Smith.
2. George Washington must not be very happy these days.
3. I only wish my Democratic leadership would be at the forefront on this. The Democratic leadership have absolutely nothing to lose by speaking out strongly on this issue. Instead, it’s as if they cower in silence. I am disappointed.
Ghostman
egregious @ 101
Pyramids awaaaaay!
*just kidding*
Everyone keeps forgetting: the rule of law does not apply to Republicans! GWB has made it more than clear that he WILL NOT obey the law, any law. I truly believe that we are all wasting our time on all of this. Scooter WILL be pardoned before he serves a minute in jail, Bush don’t read no DOJ guidelines. The war will escalate, Congress has been neutered. Torture will continue, Congress has been neutered. The rich will get richer, the rest will get poorer, the rich control the Congress. In other words(don’t you just love it when Georgie says that?), dude, we been coup’d. Over and out!!
I have read the pardon letters. They paint a picture of a very smart man, with the ability to manage huge amounts of information about complex matters. The writers, almost all of them, say that the convictions are inconsistent with the Libby they know, most of them from long work relationships, and the rest from long social relationships. He was nice to everyone he met, including very junior people and the aides and drivers who attended to him and the VP. He remembered them, and helped them over long periods of time. Even allowing for the context of requests for mercy, they are impressive.
The only way to make the conviction consistent with the character the writers give Libby is to assume that he lied on purpose. He had some goal in lying that to him was more important than his honor and his family. It is hard for me to believe that a person would consider lying to protect Cheney or the Bushies from disclosure of the facts would be enough to risk jail, but I don’t see any other option.
During the trial, several people pointed out that his wife seemed really upset about things, and that it seemed to be directed to Libby, not his lawyers. Several of the social friends were women who say that Libby and his wife were close. I think she knows what happened and why. I wonder if she could plead a spousal privilege to refuse to testify before Congress.
(comment posted elsewhere)
What does anyone think about the pardon in relation to the 2008/Republican party chances?
IF Scooter does not get pardoned, it does not become an issue in 2008. BUT, if all the Rethug wingnuts (note: most Republican Prez candidate for 2008) and their followers keep screaming, will Bush have to pardon before to please the base and therefore potentially self-sabotage any Rethugs chance for the POTUS?
George Washington died, Ghostman. You, of all people, . . . ;)
masaccio @ 105
It’s funny how two people can read the same letters and come out with very different impressions?
Mr. Scarecrow: Ha! Indeed, indeed. Wish we had ole George around these days.
Ghostman
Wow, with friends like Wolfie . . .
It would certainly be refreshing if these disgusted and disaffected “Reagan Republicans” would do a bit more than just grumble. It wouldn’t hurt to speak out publicly and forcefully. You’d think if they had any loyalty to their party, they’d try to salvage its reputation by showing there are some of them left who do respect the rule of law.
Ghostman @ 110
Yep. There was a Commander in Chief who actually deserved the title.
Yer’ cookin’ this AM, Redd!
One aspect that has been jumping out at me:
The lack of accountability (and the inability to go by their own freakin’ rules!) we see in Repug guvmint has it’s counterpart in the corporate world.
Back in the day, I worked for a major airline. A sea change began in the late 80’s – managers went from taking responsibility to shirking it. It didn’t happen overnight – it took ten years for the rot to trickle down to the front lines. Perhaps not so coincidentally, profits tracked honorable behavior, and tanked.
Towards the end, the sonsofbitches wouldn’t even go by the rules they had written.
When local management was in major error, middle and upper management covered it up. Things that would have gotten a manager fired in the 80’s got swept under the rug in the 90’s.
Need I mention Enron, Arthur Andersen, Haliburton, etc.?
For me, Bush actions are redolent of my corporate experience. The rot in both places has its roots in the same source.
CNuck @ 42
Welcome! But watch out for becoming addicted. ;)
How does Scooter feel that he and his friends caused Col. Westhusing to write this suicide note:
–mui (why I am I coming out null?)
“When Pardons Turn Political”: From today’s Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06…..by.html?hp
When Bush pardons the traitor, he will have effectively nullified all the legitimacy of trial proceedings–prosecutor, judge, jury.
(Posted by Sally although the preview screen reads “Null.” Couldn’t change the spacing, either. Bugs to be worked out, perhaps.)
Notice there wasn’t a “pardon Sandy Berger” lynch mob formed by the Democrats.
-GSD
senate armed services committee -
senator jack reed just said that nsc hadley should be fired…. and now carl levin is agreeing.
this is not a normal nomination committee hearing. everyone so far is supporting general lute, but using the opportunity to rip president bush’s administration and policies.
My 115, it’s magic! Post corrected.
selise @ 117
Hadley fired. Yeah!
Jayt@53: Laughing out loud. Now I shall return to lurking.
GSD–speaking of Clinton era comparisons, it is worth noting that while Clinton did commit perjury and lost his law license as a result, there really was no underlying crime, since last I knew, adultery is not illegal.
And Sandy Berger made a plea agreement.
Per Christie:
Agreed. So why is Fitz not bringing charges under the IIPA?
Fitz has submitted evidence that Plame was covert. There was more than ample evidence at the trial that Libby “intentionally disclose[d]” her affiliation with the CIA. Per Christie, Libby had a legal obligation to know her Plame’s status before disclosing such informaiton. What’s Fitz waiting for?
Sally @ 118
Thanks goes to our moderator
mui @ 123
And hopefully not to Scarecrow and a goat.
Woodhall Hollow @ 121
Well, we know that underlying crimes are very important to establish when charging Republicans with a crime.
For Democrats, not so much.
-GSD
Re: Wolfowitz
I found this article in a Dutch newspaper via Daily Kos Daily Koslast week: “Wolfowitz was a disastreus leider”, [translated Wolfowitz was a disaster as a leader]
I had not had a chance to actually follow and read the whole article in its entirety, but the interview in question is with Herman Wijffels, who in the previous past had worked as a mediator in the highest circles of Dutch politics.
(As an aside, I realize very few of you understand the intracacies of Dutch politics, but, because, like in Israel, its very much a proportional Democracy with a myriad of parties, the forming of the cabinet, in which the Prime Minister [the “decider” in the Netherlands :)] is chosen is incredibly difficult as diverse interests have to be all shepherded into a singular policy) Wijffels stated that the cabinet negotiation was a breeze in comparison.
He stated, among other things, that the firing had little to do with Shira Riza, but that the media in the United States took that and ran with that, aided and abetted by the conservative media, in order to provide political cover for Wolfowitz. He absolutely denies that, in fact, there were any political motivations behind the firing, just that he was a piss-poor manager, and that it was really driven that the EU countries were threatening to withhold their contributions, because Wolfowitz was “a danger to existence of the World Bank.” He lays to waste any claims that it was because Wolfowitz was the designer of the Iraq war [policy].
Finally, Wijffels stated in regard to the statement that Wolfowitz had acted in ethically and in good faith – “I really had to swallow hard about that one….”
Oh in case there are any trolls out there, Wijffels was President of Rabobank for years prior entering into public service, so the man definitely had experience in the banking world.
I know I’m probably preaching to the choir about ol’ Wolfie, but I still found it fascinating how a story about competence and management skills got spun into a bunch of personal B.S. and soap opera.
mui @ 91
Creepy, esp. coming from Rummy. I’ll remember to read his blog when I want some advice for raising my kids. Maybe he means as a hand puppet, as in holding in front of his children as a hand puppet, willing to do what ever I will him to do.
Well, so much for Paris Hilton doing her time. Seems that she was let out of jail after 3 days “due to an unspecified medical condition.”
Drug withdrawal?
It really does seem like there are two standards of justice in this country. One for “them” and another for the rest of us.
wigwam at 112 — Because, as I have explained about a billion times before, IIPA requires that a prosecutor be able to prove that such disclosure was knowingly made. In other words, you have to have someone on the inside or some proof in written form or otherwise, that the person who made the disclosure KNEW affirmatively at the time of disclosure that the information was regarding a covert asset and that he did so purposely in order to out that information. That is not the same as knowing that you have an obligation. IIPA was written such that prosecutions under the statute are virtually impossible to bring — unless you have someone on the inside of a scheme who is willing to blow the whistle on a co-conspirator.
Honestly, I am not certain how much more clearly I can explain this. But it would really help if people would read the statute and think about ALL of the elements required for proof and prosecution in it.
From the NYTimes today:
I don’t quite understand what this anon conservative is saying.
mui @ 124
There were no goats harmed in the making of this thread.
Woodhall Hollow @ 128
She came down with a bad case of idontlikejailitis
wigwam @ 122
IMO, because Libby wasn’t the primary leak, only a secondary, and because intent is challenging to prove.
I think Fitz did fine with his approach, still leaves plenty of room to go after the primary not just on IIPA but on Title 18, Sect. 793 (and I think the latter might still be an option on Libby if a few more bits of information become available).
New thread…
Woodhall Hollow @ 26
docs you say? where they at?
mui @ 123, thanks, moderators, for your magic.
Tired Fed–at TPM Muckraker. About 4-5 posts down.
Biodun @ 131
I read that as an veiled threat to Bush that those standing in the way of impeachment would abondon him if he allowed Libby to go to jail. This is getting very nasty, and the reporter should not have allowed this “source” anonymity.
Getting lonely up here;
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..s/#respond
Good morning from L.A.
Of course a commutation or pardon should be out of the question. But will Bush/Cheney care about an outcry from the public if Libby is pardoned or his sentence commuted? What if the MSM registers very little outcry?
MSM coverage of the Libby matter IMO has been deplorable so far in explaining what’s at stake, w/the exception of Countdown & a spot of good reporting here & there.
What if Libby is pardoned or has his sentence commuted, then FDL & other sites like it are the only places registering any sustained outrage?
(I’m another who sees “null” as my name in the preview & am unable to space graphs properly. No gripin’ here, just reporting this as info for mods :-)
Scarecrow @ 138
Oh, what a lovely vice-like catch-22 that is!
Now that my post is up, it looks A OK.
Thank you, Mods, for all your hard work.
froggermarch @ 59
absolutely. get him to plead the 5th on specific questions. then hand him “get out of jail free card” (limited use immunity) for each and every question. he cant plead the 5th then. we got Libby already. we need to move on to bigger fish.
Pardon me @ 106
This is a good question, and I’d like to see some of the pros around here consider it.
A couple of days ago, probably just before (or just after) the Repub debate, I heard an analysis on election prospects on NPR from a clearly repub spinmeister (part of a discussion with some sort of opposing view). She said that they (the repubs) knew that they weren’t going to get congress back, which seemed to be a fairly candid admission of being in deep shit now and for the future. But then her spin was that the Repub pres candidates are in great shape because “the American people” like to have opposition in their branches of government. It was a stupid argument and complete crap, and you know that she wasn’t saying that when Bush was running against Gore and Kerry.
I don’t know that the repub POTUS chances are very real, and I’m not sure that they will affect the pardon issue. Bigger factors seem to be the prior Bush record and statements on pardons (post-Clinton pardoning Rich) and Bush legacy issues, such as going to the next level in showing complete disregard for the rule of law in the midst of the DoJ crisis and progress in illegal warrantless wiretapping (Comey’s statement today).
Scarecrow @ 99
Hey there,
While I understand their thinking, I also do not totally agree with that strategy. If I were the decider I would file Articles of Impeachment for the whole lot.
As I posted about how, for example, the Wolfowitz firing got spun into something personal in the American media, that same thing would happen with the impeachment, because our might Wurlitzer loves the personality, psychoanalysis debate, and, with Gonzalez it would turn into why they after them Hispanics debate rather than the fact that he is a serial liar.
The Democrats, unfortunately, only work in increments. Despite the obvious lying, they still use weasel words when asked about obviously false testimony. That was the gist of my comment.
I certainly hope that Libby is not pardoned and does not have his sentence commuted. The letters have been farcical and I think the one from Pace should get him called before Congress to explain WTH he thought he as doing and how he was not using his position to attempt to gain benefit for his pal.
I do think, though, that there isn’t really a good way to generate any groundswell of opinion on sending Libby to jail bc of the way the case has unfolded. That was clear, too, from the jurors sentiments.
Did Libby lie? Sure. But look at the cast of lying characters.
Everyone and their brother also believes that Rove lied over and over and is getting a walk. That makes it harder to get incensed that Libby should go to jail.
Everyone and their brother now knows from testimony that Ari told all kinds of reporters and did it even after being told the news in a cautionary “hush hush” setting, but he walks.
Armitage is now an open and acknowledged leak source to Novak and no one has ever even heard him have to testify under oath. For years he and the investigators kept secret his role and reporters like Woodward ran silent. If not for Woodward’s need for attention, we would still not know about Armitage and that kind of thing makes people wonder and worry what else is info that is still staying under wrap. Armitage has never had any negative reprucussion from his direct leak of info to Novak and did I mention – no one (in the public) has ever even heard his under oath testimony with hard questions. He walks.
Pretty much everyone would believe from the evidence made available that anything Libby did, he did at Cheney’s direction. Still, no one has ever seen Cheney asked any hard questions, under oath and he walks.
There is no question whatsoever that the investigation proved that President Bush got with Cheney and organized/authorized a covert leak of classified information to friendly sourcing in order to use that information for domestic propaganda and to effect a political outcome. No questioning, no reprucussions. He doesn’t so much walk as swagger, but there you go.
The truth is that in their hearts – if not under the letter of the law – people do see Justice as comparative. They do tend to think that it is not “fair” to punish x for something that a & b & c are doing and openly getting by with and in particular when it is clear that no one will be even trying to slap a & b & c.
That’s not a criticism of how the case was handled (well, ok, yeah – from the beginning I was and remain biased against inhousing the investigation so that not even the outside prosec. rules – paltry though they are – apply). But for those who haven’t hung on every word of every report and even for people like those in the jury – the perception is that a whole Spanky’s Gang of wrongdoers has “gotten off” while Buckwheat alone was grabbed by the ear and is getting the collective punishment.
IMO Libby deserves everything he gets and very likely much more. But I think on the reality front, people are disgusted by the whole thing and think EVERYONE involved should have been punished, but it’s hard for them to get revved up over what seems, on its face (although not when you delve) to be a situation where the cripple is being drug from the herd, while the rest run off. People may agree that it is the way of nature – but they have a harder time seeing it as a shining moment in justice.
If you look back again at what the “sympathetic” jurors were saying, it wasn’t so much that they thought Libby standing alone with what he did was sympathetic. Their sympathy was always tied to an inability to really understand, in their gut, why “just” Libbby was getting the brunt. They became very aware, very quickly, that Libby as not even one of the two sources to Novak and that NEITHER of those sources were getting any punishment whatsoever. Same for the Cheney and Bush Machinations. Same for the Fleischer leaks. There’s just a basic American dislike for the concept of collective punishment and there is a flavor of that overhanging Libby’s conviction. That, I think, is why there’s no real groundswell.
Here’s to Libby going to jail, but I can understand the pragmatic aspect of why so many on the right feel so safe in advocating for his pardon. No one really feels justice was much done in this case and it already has a lot of insults to add to the underlying injuries. People already have a disgusted reconciliation with the fact that a lot of bad player have walked – the fact that a pardon will mean one more walks is hard for the avereage, non-Plame obsessed, person to get hot and bothered over.
As they see it, everyone else is walking – why not Libby?
It has probably been remarked on by others but a great many of the letters in support of Libby come from lawyers, especially from the the Dechert law firm, and praise Libby’s legal skills and thoroughness. A great many others are from people in the defense and national security sections of our government.
So how is it that such a consumate lawyer so well versed on security issues would “forget” or “overlook” the implications of outing a CIA agent? How could such a person inadvertently relate a story to the FBI and the Grand Jury which is contradicted not only by numerous government officials and media figures but supported by no one else?
And as I wrote yesterday isn’t the real “inconsistency” (a word used suspiciously often in the letters) that anyone could be so high in this most corrupt and lawless of Administrations and not have broken the law or held that law in contempt?
Things ain’t like the used to be in the late 50’s and early 60’s when I held a top secret clearance. If a person’s name was mentioned in a briefing ordebriefing in connection with the CIA, that person’s name was never uttered to “outsiders”. Never. Period.
We’ll never learn the damage Libby and Cheney wrought upon our intelligence community and its assets, but my guess is that it is horrendous.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 129
folks should also take notice that Fitz often refers to the Espionage Act rather than IIPA at times in this case.
No matter what the concerns or ambitions or objectives of a person, ‘level of their being attacks that same level of life’. Liars and crooks are attracted to each other. The foundation of Neocon beliefs and conduct is based on “the good lie” and “only the elite should rule”. Money/corporation is considered objective (Huh? How?) and “the end justifies the means”. So who do you attract to yourself with this fundamental belief system? Yep, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice, Bush, Rove, Libby, Gonzales, Card to mention a few. Remember when your grandmother used to say, “birds of a feather flock together”?
selise @ 64
When the public health emergency occurs that allows Bush and Company to implement their dictatorial powers, it will be people like Fauci, who has never been anything but a political hack, who is front and center on FOX using his credentials and standing in the health community to provide comfort as the deuce and a halfs are pulling away loaded with people for the quarantine camps.
BTW, were any of Libby’s letters on govt letterhead or was all that info redacted?
Welcome, CNuck…enjoy this place, it is unique both in terms of depth of discussion and collegiality among the group. Very wonderful place wherever you are. I’m almost 57 while others are teens or older. Great diversity.
CHS….love the new looks!
Scooter looked cool/
calm collected, bull****/
he looked white/
as bushite, lies/
were displayed here.
Christy, what a wonderful and informative overview. I read that article in WaPo, but hadn’t fully realized the exact import if Wm. Otis’ 3rd choice. I.e., if the third choice were implemented Scooter still gets 5th amendment rights. So, knowing this, it’s even worse than it seems. So, far the public response to Mr. Otis’ idea is overwhelmingly hostile. I don’t know if the Washington insiders get exactly how hostile. The verdict in the trial as well as the sentence is just. It should remain, with no pardon of any kind. Thank you again – you’re point is supremely important.
Libby will soon learn the true character of Bush and Cheney. He is no longer useful to them and a pardon is a hot potato that htey don’t need.
He’s toast or should I say a french fry.
Guess what piece of excrement just bobbed up in the bowl. Toesbreath
Republicans play by their own set of rules and laws. One cannot expect them to abide by the general law applicable to the rest of Americans. They’re republicans, after all. Sorry to be a skunk at the lawn party, but Scooter will be pardoned at warp speed. Don’t be too surprised if no BAR association disbars him either. Increasingly so, America is becoming the punchline for jokes.
Fern @ 85
Not that I believe anything about Bush but communting the sentence now with a full pardon later is the way it will likely go. The appeal on the conviction would still continue and then if that fails, a full pardon.
Even if the Democrats win in 2008 and call Libby in to testify after his pardon, he will not remember anything. He can’t be indicted for being non responsive. Maybe he can be held in contempt. Look he’s a lowlife as well as the rest of these Yalies and preppies who comprise the executive branch
Ah, but the Espionage Act has an even more difficult-to-meet state-of-mind element. For an Espionage Act prosecution, one needs proof that the action was done “with the intent to harm the United States.”
In any event, for a whole bunch of reasons, the 1917 Espionage Act (a product of America’s Red Scare No. 2) really shouldn’t be stretched to pick up any revelation of classified information. The text doesn’t support such a reading (and if the 1917 law alrady dealt with the subject matter, query why Congress would have felt the need to enact the IIPA many decades later), and broad use of the Espionage Act really would chill whistleblowing (imagine, say, an Espionage Act prosecution for James Risen’s reporting).
Just a couple of comments.
First, regarding the possibility of a commutation of Libby’s sentence. If there is a commutation, and the next President is not a Republican, the next President might want to consider issuing a full pardon to Libby so that he loses his 5th amendment rights. Wouldn’t that be ironic– a Democratic president issuing a full pardon to Libby?
Next, regarding the letters submitted to the Court in support of Libby prior to sentencing. Someone commented about the possibility that the letters might be used in the civil suit. Those letters will not be admissible in the civil suit if it ever proceeds to trial. But if the case ever proceeds to the discovery phase, it may be that plaintiff’s counsel will attempt to depose some of the people who submitted letters in support of Libby. I have not read any of those letters, but it sounds like there is a glaring inconsistency between the picture painted by the letters and the picture which defense counsel tried to paint in their efforts to obtain an acquittal.
Third, regarding the supportive letters from people like Gen. Pace, who did not know Libby. Those of you who are criminal defense attorneys should, in appropriate cases, send Gen. Pace (and others like him) requesting that he write a supportiveletter to the Court for your client prior to your client’s sentencing hearing. Send a copy of the request to someone here at FDL, who can keep track of these requests and can comment on Pace’s refusal to honor the requests. If done on a nationwide basis in white collar criminal cases, it should not take long to make a nice story about why Pace (and others like him) only seem to honor requests for people like Scooter Libby.
I thought I had asked this question, but the post may have been lost. For you lawyers..in view of the Monica, Gonzo, and the USAtty mess or the Scooter, Shooter, W,etc. here in the Plame action, is there any place for a RICO case against this bunch? Is it something that could be brought either while they are still in office? Or, finally out? Thanks
kdh22 @ 32
wow. i forgot he has a “crotch” (on loan from wardrobe).
buschzti, the puppet…from “putsch.”
FDL and TPM !!! fitz !!!
don de drain @ 159
i like the way your mind works – esp the 3rd point!