There’s a troubling read from the Iowa Independent today:
Jason Eness-Potter, a Democrat from Iowa City, answered his phone May 25 without expecting an extensive probe of his political views, but that’s what he got. “I was on the phone with the person for about 40 minutes” before getting tired of the questions and ending the survey, he said. From his sketch of the questions asked, we can draw a few inferences:
. . . The caller identified his questions as a survey about “voter persuasion.” After asking the standard party ID questions (roughly, “Are you a Democrat?” and “Would you consider yourself moderate, somewhat progressive, or very progressive?”), the questions became more issue-specific. Eness-Potter recalls being asked, among other things, “Do you consider yourself a feminist?” Answers to the issue questions were in terms of a 1 to 9 scale.
. . . Next, the questions turned specifically to the candidates. The caller also asked the standard candidate ID question, “Who are you most likely to support in the caucuses?” (Eness-Potter identified himself as leaning towards Sen. Obama.) A standard, public poll may have finished here, but the caller pressed on with questions about Sen. Clinton. He asked first what Eness-Potter’s general approval rating of Clinton was, following up with carefully worded questions about Clinton: Do you feel that she is too strong of a feminist? Do you plan to support another candidate “because [Sen. Clinton] stands by her convictions on her war vote and refuses to back down?”
Then, Eness-Potter got a glimpse of what may become the positive side of Clinton’s message: “During Bill Clinton’s administration, the Clintons helped to create 100,000 jobs in Iowa. After hearing this, is your opinion of Sen. Clinton higher or lower?” The caller went on to ask a few questions about Clinton’s campaign platform, asking whether specific campaign promises, as worded by the campaign’s pollster, make Jason more or less likely to support her.
But the survey didn’t end there. As Eness-Potter’s patience continued to wane, the caller started into the negative questions about Clinton’s opponents. Although he cut the caller off fairly quickly after he saw where the caller was headed, he recalled two questions — one about Sen. Barack Obama and the other about former Sen. John Edwards — that were particularly memorable.
On Sen. Obama, the caller’s question had to do with the war: Paraphrased, it was “Sen. Obama boasts of his consistent opposition to the war, but he has contradicted himself by voting for appropriation bills to fund it. Does this make you approve of Sen. Obama more or less?”
And on Edwards, the subject was, predictably, about his $400 haircut a month or so ago.
It was roughly at that point in the call that Eness-Potter excused himself and hung up –- after the caller admitted to him that the survey was commissioned by the Clinton campaign.
. . . A similar message poll that went out to voters in New Hampshire has been documented on other blogs.
Sounds like Hillary’s trying to figure out the fastest way to flame out of the 2008 campaign. Anyone who’s paid any attention to elections over time knows that the dynamics of a multi-candidate race make negative campaigning suicidal: Voters may be driven away from the target of the attack, but they’re repelled by the person who launched it as well.
Democratic presidential-race strategists in particular should know about this rule of thumb, since Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt demonstrated it so vividly in Iowa in 2004, tearing each other apart over the airwaves and opening the field in the closing days for John Kerry and John Edwards. Any votes Clinton succeeds in peeling away from Obama with her smear tactics are likely to go straight to Edwards, and vice versa.
Even if she finds the perfect balance of mudslinging to stagger away with the nomination for the White House, Hillary might find in the fall that by turning the primaries into an exercise in mutual destruction, she’s reduced her prize to worthlessness. (The Democratic primary candidates in California’s gubernatorial election last year proved this through a viciously cannibalistic contest that enabled a previously vulnerable Gov. Arnold What’s-his-name to sail effortlessly to a second term.)
And don’t even get me started on how lamely spun the “positive” questions in that poll are. As someone who still remembers 1992-94 well enough to have a reservoir of pro-Hillary feelings, I neverless have felt ominous vibes about her 2008 candidacy, noting back in January:
. . . if she thinks she can just drift into the White House on fundraising and name recognition without any motivating reason why she is the right President for this time, she’s in for a large and unpleasant surprise.
Rather than trying to be
invisibleinoffensive and stockpiling cold cash, Hillary would be better off with one-fourth the money and a clear sense of what she’d do if she was President.
From the sound of these polls she’s running, it seems like Clinton hasn’t figured out that communicating a clear sense of what she’d do if she was President isn’t just the most idealistic way to run, it’s the most practical.
(P.S. I didn’t watch or read about the last Democratic debate, because… well, because it’s more than six freakin’ months until the Iowa caucuses. For anyone who did feel like catching the pre-Broadway run, what did you think of Clinton’s message?)
(Photo of Hillary wondering where the FDL left sidebar went by Larry Downing of Reuters.)
Related posts:
- Late Night: Hatin’ on Hillary – Get Over It Already.
- Will Hillary Clinton’s “Partner Plan” Run Afoul of DOMA?
- Late Night: Careful What You Wish For
- Obama on the Public Option: More Careful Words, No Commitments
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Hillary Rettig, The Lifelong Activist: How to Change the World Without Losing Your Way






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SWOPA!
Damn, just lucky today. Two firsts in a row. Must. Buy. Lottery. Ticket.
She has too many DLC type advisors. Too bad for her.
Assuming it was the Clinton campaign calling, and not some Right-wing push poll. Not that the Right would stoop to such measures of course…
I agree that she needs to quit worrying about the others who are running and show me one damn solid reason to even think about voting for her.
So far that has been sadly lacking.
Too much triangulating will stick you in a corner somewhere, dear.
Bustednuckles @ 2
do they have ones with zeroes?
No more zeds that I see.
:(
GREAT POST…although La Hillary did well the other night…she negated anything positive she accomplished by using the ReTHUGlican talking point “We are safer now than before”….or some crqap like that….ENOUGH of her…….come on other candidates get movin!
TiredFed @ 6
Yes, in the space where it tells you what you’ve won.
Thank you swopa!
I sense Howard Wolfson’s fine hand here. And Hillary is running exactly the campaign she would be expected to run, push-polls and all.
I still think the AUMF vote and her continued intransigence will doom her. And good on Democrats for that.
oh, and SWOPA, nice piece. couldnt happen to a nicer gal. if she crashes and burns early, we may have a race.
Hillary is too close. Too close to the DLC, too close to DC consultants, too close to the special interests that support the military industrial complex, and too close to the financial services industry (Rubinomics). I am not a Clinton hater, I don’t dislike Hillary or find her cold, calculating, etc as so many of the Wingers who want her to win the nomination claim. While she is intellegent and quick on her feet, she is my least favorite Dem candidate. If she starts this crap in Iowa, I hope the blogosphere spreads the news far and wide. I have always agreed with Molly on this one: Hillary, please don’t run.
“Photo of Hillary wondering where the FDL left sidebar went” :)
Swopa nails it again. So when justice is served in the Plame situation, and we have elected a progressive Dem President, Senate, and House in ‘08 what will be your next target of investigation? I fear for them, truly.
anyone else try to get a confirmation from the campaign? the folks in Iowa tried. anyone from Hilary’s campaign out there (now that your candidate is getting blasted)?
Hi Swopa!
Thanks!
Albatross @ 4
What Albatross said.
Isn’t the sidebar supposed to shift to the right for the general election?
What a phony. She made comments in the “debate” to the effect of “It’s George Bush’s war”. Sort of a “Can’t We All Get Along” moment.
The pundits all thought she was totally wonderful, and staying above the fray, playing the front-runner role well.
’scuse me while I go puke now.
OT: Anyone else watching this hearing with the NASA IG on CSpan 3? This guy is BAITING Senator Nelson (FL type). He contests everything and is an IDIOT!!!
Hillary motivates Republic voters to vote against her more than any Republic candidate motivates those voters to vote for that candidate. We cannot afford more years of Republic rule. It would be better for the nation if Hillary would remain a Senator.
Dover Bitch @ 17
Beat me to it. Nice db!
Just the thought that James Carville is one of her key advisors makes me uncomfortable. She is surrounded by too many DLC-type political hacks. John Kerry could tell her something about listening to those idiots.
Bustednuckles @ 7
Busted think of it this way. Those of us who were here in the zed days can reminisce about old times, the way people talk about haloscan. The few, the proud, the zedders.
I think it’s a good idea. Something Rove probably cooked up to get around the do not call laws. Disguise your mudslinging as a survey. Next she’ll be dressing her campaigners up as reporters and sending them to events to ask rigged questions.
Ugh. It sure sounds like Billary hasn’t learned a damn thing.
I watched Carl Bernstein interviewed on Charlie Rose a few nights ago–it is on his website and avail for viewing and I recomend it. Bernstein is not a Hilary-hater (his mother volunteered for Bill) and is not a rethug tool, but what he writes/says about her seems right in line with this “polling” stunt.
One of the things she seems to have not a clue about is how to staff her org with decent people. She screwed up with staffing the Clinton WH in the early years, she was the one who brought Dick Morris on board, and was more comfortable with him than Bill was.
This polling story seems to bear that tendency out.
egregious @ 23
Or we can just call ‘em “lolos” in honor of the Queen of the Zed…
egregious @ 23
so now it’s UNO!
or LOLO!
AZ Matt –
This is something you might be interested in:
IndnsList.org Campaign Camp 2007
Ed Deevy @ 22
If, in fact, Carville was in Hillary’s camp (and I believe that he was), he was deep in the weeds, nowhere near the surface. After the Libby letter, he’s positively radio-active, and she needs him to drift away completely. This may actually help her campaign, the most peculiar irony of all.
The Iowa Independent article indicates that Hillary’s push polling is (1) seeking to frame her “consistency” on her Iraq war vote as a strength and (2) going after Edwards’ $400 haircut.
Stubbornly failing to admit her Iraq vote mistakes, check. Reinforcing trite Republican talking points about her opponents, check.
Hillary Clinton: always hard at work undermining the Democratic party brand for short-term political gain.
Rove me over, Rove me over . . .
If that is the kind of phone surveying Hilary has approved of, then my opinion of her intelligence & common sense took a plunge. Loaded questions like that tick people off.
AZ Matt @ 3
It goes further than that. Hillary and the DLC are locked in an embrace so tight that they are inseparable. Unfortunately, I think, the DLC is as much a reflection of her (& hubby Bill) as she is a reflection of them. And the result does not look good for either. The viral YouTube ad, the edited version of the old Apple ad (viral in the sense that it seemed contagious, and spread everywhere without anyone pushing it), rings too true: Hillary portrayed on the big screen as Big Sister, platoons of colorless citizens, and the colorful “Obama” hammer thrower who runs into the theater and slings the hammer into the supersized TV screen of Hillary– spooky. I don’t think this is the last we’ll see of that “ad”.
Natheless, Hillary did do well in the last debate. She challenged Wolfie on some stupidly simplistic questions and took charge of those situations. Swopa, you’ve gotta go back and watch it, if only for those moments.
Bob in HI
Egregious,
So true, I remember the hell-o-scan days like it was, um, last week?
dakine01 @ 19
Senator Claire McCaskill, D-Missouri, is an auditor by profession. She just slaughtered these guys by using her own knowledge of the yellowbook, which provides standards of conduct for inspectors general.
Yet another victory for those of us who worked to elect blueAmerica candidates last year. Senator McCaskill will be back for more slicing and dicing after returning from Armed Services. This is the good stuff.
Hillary has a PDA and was tired of having to screw with junk in the left hand column as she followed the Libby trial. She contacted someone in the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy who hollered through the toobz and told us to knock it off, so we complied.
Franco @ 8
Agreed. That was her low point of the evening. She’s gotta stop using Repug talking points!
Bob in HI
Great, I am starting to loathe the triangulatin’, capitulatin’ Democrats almost as much as the Republicans.
Americablog had a post about how Bill Clinton advised Kerry to throw gays under the bus in 2004 and embrace the anti-gay marriage issue.
Kerry to his credit didn’t bite.
F-Bill and Hillary. Bill can go and marry Poppy Bush for all I care and Hillary can go push the Bush and Rudy G. “we’re safer now” agenda too.
I aint voting for her.
Now more than ever.
-GSD
*xyz @ 30
Agreed, but this poll is a rather blunt tool to be used for short-term gain. She’s f***ing up in the very place where her hubby would be her best advisor. I’m starting to believe that Hil is running her own show and very badly) and Bubba has taken a powder.
Now, where and when did I hear of similar tactics?
Don’t believe everything you think.
Ed Deevy @ 22
Do you remember what Santayana said?
I kinda like the new layout.
The one thing I do miss is the different color when you posted, it made for a kind of road sign when you went back up the thread.
I’m sure Jamie is still tinkering.
Jane Hamsher @ 36
You’re hysterical
egregious @ 35
This guy Cobb is UNBELIEVABLE! Nelson is eviscerating him and he still is thumbing his nose at him…I know Nelson is a former astronaut so you know he takes anything about NASA personally and this guy is just holding himself out to be so much more pure thant anyone else.
egregious @ 35
I have been transfixed upon this hearing.
Nelson is tearing this
guyarrogant prick Cobb to shreds. He has obviously put himself in the position of obstruction justice on more than one occasion.Great caption, Swopa! — me too.
All this money sloshing about among consultants, pollsters, advisers, and admen cannot bode well for our party’s Prez race. Much as I delight in the GOP imploding, I fear for our team. The creatively destructive ways these money-oriented hangers-on will burn through the record amounts of cash are simply terrifying. Thanks, Swopa, for highlighting the first of many transgressive efforts.
Such great people, our PrezCandis. So many policy differences to haggle over and educate Americans about. So many real issues to thrash out, so many leadership styles to compare and contrast. Must it all be reduced to trivial takedowns? Please, no.
Mike @ 40
The problem with the robo-calls was that most people didn’t wait till the end where it was identified who was behind the calls.
Albatross @ 4
Anybody around with the clout to ask her campaign?
newtonusr @ 29
Carville has announced he supports Hillary for president. Edwards, Obama, Dodd and the Democratic presidential field should call on Hillary to (1) condemn Carville’s support for Libby and (2) promise not to accept the advice or support the ethically compromised Carville going forward.
This is a great opportunity for a Democratic candidate to confront Hillary on a very ethically clear issue. Who will be first?
And remember that Hillary used Geffen’s comments to score political points against Obama a while back. Hillary is not above the tactic of tying comments of an opposing candidate’s supporters to the candidate himself.
Jane Hamsher @ 36
Gotta love it!! Jane won’t even cut HRC any slack.
To those telling it like it is here about Hillary, good job. But we need to rid the Democratic party of the DLC. That’s a main target of my wrath. Among one or two others.
Loo Hoo @ 48
Why would the reich-wing do this kind of push poll? They want HRC as the Dem nominee. Doing this won’t get her there.
Interesting story. Particularly because Republicans have a history of spoofing Democratic messaging in a way to aggravate voters. I would not rush to judgment on this one. There are too many Republican talking points in that one.
This is worth some investigative journalism before sowing seeds of discontent among supporters of Democratic candidates. I’m not prejudging the results of that investigation; it might well be from the rockbrains in the Clinton campaign. But it is good once in a while to get a reality check before going all nuclear.
**xyz gets a double amen from me for both of his/her comments.
House vote to recognize Lumbee native American tribe of NC cruising to an easy victory with about 1/3 of Republicans also voting yes.
Probably the tribe has nothing worth stealing, and will actually receive funds from BIA, which is why BIA didn’t want them to get recognition. It will be a net drain on all the hundreds of billions [trillions?] they have stolen from other tribes. Ooops. Shhh!
*xyz @ 49
This is an EXCELLENT idea. I hope they all do.
The more Hillary goes off the rails, the better the chance that Gore enters the race, so other candidates my be a little conflicted about driving Hillary away. A bit of a pickle for all of them, or most of them.
I want Gore to run for pres, and Dodd for Sec of State!
Greetings;
It is possible these questions were worded so that a favorable result can be presented.People who advise candidate can have interest in poll result not only as a means to gather data but also as a feedback for ideas implemented on their recommendation.
Sen Clinton’s “I understand terrorism ’cause I’m a New Yorker” schtick is stomach churning too.
Heckuva job.
-GSD
Breaking at Raw Story:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0607.html
Two leading Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee wrote to Vice President Dick Cheney today and urged him to recuse himself from any internal proceedings on granting former top White House aide I. Lewis ‘Scooter’ Libby a pardon.
snowyegret @ 18
Loo Hoo, I left you a question at the bottom of the last thread.
egregious @ 55
That is interesting! Must be why the Dem from No Caroline said he HAD to leave the NASA hearing go vote (he said he was a co-sponsor of the bill).
Jane Hamsher @ 36
Well, now, that makes sense! I’ve tried accessing FDL several times via my “smart phone”, but was defeated by the difficulties of navigating the frames and the scroll bars, so I gave up. I’ll have to give it another try.
Thanks,
Bob in HI
egregious @ 55
Jack Abramoff is weeping.
-GSD
Obama doesn’t exactly light my fire either.
*xyz @ 59
Sounds like bait!
BTW, I was not suggesting that Carville was uncommitted, but that I don’t know for a stone fact that he was participating in her strategery. Just that it seemed likely, given shit like this poll.
Woodhall Hollow @ 25
Bob Somerby has different take on Bernstein (it’s below the JokeLine segment).
Badwater @ 20
I totally agree with this!! I wish more Hillary supporters would get it.
There’s also the issue of the lack of enthusiasm among Dems for Hillary; a lot of people will stay home. Many of us may reluctantly vote for her to keep the Repubs out, but I think there are also a large number of independents & “waivering Dems” who may just stay home.
Last time I made this point here, I got personally flamed by a Hillary supporter.
TarheelDem @ 53
Why would Republicans want to do this so far in advance of the election? Don’t see how there could be any benefit for them in a fake push poll.
Bob Schacht @ 63
We’re still fiddling with it. I’m afraid PDA browsers require special tweaking and we don’t have anyone who does that. If anyone has any expertise on that front, lemme know.
She is desperate, cornered into running in Iowa after the exposure of the memo advising her to sit Iowa out. She needs the polls there to improve or the momentum of perception will change toward Edwards and Obama (and, dare I say, Gore) every time a new Iowa poll comes out. It is very possible she will not have a victory in the first four or five contests and the tight primary timetable will then work against her very fast.
Sen. Clinton’s strategy rests upon delegate counts in the big states, but that strategy is vulnerable to a sea change where the race appears to be between two others. Push polling at this point is a high-risk, high reward strategy that would make sense for Biden or Richardson (but it’s not Richardson’s style, to his credit, and Biden doesn’t have the luxury of money.)
This is a knuckleheaded move that will backfire. It might work in a bigger, more transient state, but it won’t work in Iowa. She forgets these are cacuses where people actually discuss their votes. Ham-handed tactics will cause undecideds to run–not walk–to some one else’s corner of the room.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 67
The “inauthentic” point is, in my opinion, the least interesting thing Bernstein had to say–even though I agree with him. I don’t think she is authentic. And it does matter to me that she hid the fact that she flunked her law boards and never told anyone, not even her friends. Not as bad as DUI, but certainly inauthentic, when we have all been led to believe that she is a full fledged lawyer all these years.
She has Carville, who thinks Libby should walk free.
Isn’t that -alone- sufficient to oppose her candidacy?
Enough with the Republican trojan horses.
Look, I’m a 55 yr old feminist who wants to see more women in public office. I should be among her primary supporters. Yet I’m not. Yo HRC people you are missing the very people that should be the center of your campaign.
GSD @ 38
GSD, do you have a linky?
I totally agree with egregious (@73).
Oklahoma kiddo @ 51
Absolutely!!!!
Nelson is relentless. He is incredibly well informed. Thank god for some real oversight–finally.
The impression here is that Clinton represents what’s wrong with my party. And that would be the DLC. Get rid of this outfit. Hillary and Lieberman have strong ties to this little group.
I’ll go Gore!
*xyz @ 59
Like that will have any impact at all. Remember, Dick does everything in secret.
The Lieberman campaign taught me so much last year. Everyday the Leiber-lessons help me when discussing Hillary and Mark Pryor with other AR Democrats who just think everything is peachy since their vote will be in the D box.
(Que up watertigers head banging cartoon)
Swopa — How do you know the call came from the Clinton campaign? This sounds like the tried and true Rethuglican phone call game plan to annoy people so much they turn away from whichever Democratic candidate they are pretending to be.
By the way, I’m no fan of Hillary and have zero inclination to vote for her, but this sounds suspicious to me…
Woodhall Hollow @ 77
HOW did this guy get his job? He is trying to contest everything Nelson is asking him. It’s like if Nelson asked him if a murder had occurred if a body were found with three bullets in the head, he’d say, “no, in my judgement it’s a suicide”
Although in this case it may be career suicide…
eg at 73 speaks for me
y’all prob’ly already know this, but…
Kelvin Sampson, who left the Sooners last year to take over the Hoosiers, is a member of the Lumbee…
there is a tribe of apaches, the Lipan, who were kidnapped and enslaved, en masse, by the Comanche in the 1830s from th east slope of the southern Rockies, whereupon (after being marched across Texas) they were sold to white plantation owners on the Sabine River, which comprises the Tx/La state line for some part of its length…
anyway, the Lipan have a long-standing cause in the BIA to gain recognition, even though they aren’t any longer associated with their ancestral homelands…
fwiw/fyi
dakine01 @ 82
He’s a friend of Abu’s according to earlier testimony. He was hired to cya for everthing. Its a mindset–a banana republic mindset. It was HIS turf, he is the king and he can do no wrong.
He even bragged to a AUSA that he would go over his head to Abu if he wanted. Fortunately the AUSA told him to go right ahead, and that it wouldn’t change a thing!
Speaking of Immigration, check out Mark Fiore animated cartoon HERE!
I was, and am looking forward to a woman as president. Hillary Clinton you let me down. Much more importantly, you let this country down. I am so disappointed in you. I am sad.
egregious @ 73
Wow, egregious, I guess we must be twins separated at birth (except I’m a few years older). I totally agree.
I say again. I will support the nominee of my party.
Boston, the city council of New Haven,CT along with Mayor De Stephano approved an Immigrant ID card, based on the idea that people who come to City Hall for the cards are honest people. ICE raided today for the first time ever. 5 houses down from the mayor’s house. No linky, heard it on Ed Schultz, so it may be up over there.
He said the townsfolk are now all the more supportive of their neighbors from south of the border.
phred @ 81
Let’s apply Occam’s razor to this one.
–What are the odds that the Republicans are behind this push-poll?
Extremely low.
It is clear to me at least that Hillary is the Republicans’ preferred opponent in the general election for a number of reasons, including but by no means limited to the fact that she will help rally the Republican base like nothing else and that she has blurred the lines between herself and the Republican opponents on Iraq by voting the wrong way on the war authorization and refusing to admit her vote was a mistake. What is the likelihood that Republicans would meddle in Iowa to hurt Hillary?
–What is the likelihood that another Democratic candidate is behind this poll?
I’m sorry, but I just don’t see Edwards or Obama running this poll. The poll really does seem to pick at their perceived “weak spots”.
And I really don’t see any of the other Democratic candidates getting involved in this sort of thing either.
Who is left? Hillary’s team.
Woodhall Hollow @ 77
A couple ‘o words, please, on what this hearing is about? [I watched a bit, but couldn’t tell.]
I don’t think we should hate on Hillary or her campaign so much let alone any other candidate for that matter. This is going to be the dirtiest, nastiest campaign in history and this is just a hint of things to come. We all know and so do the republicans Hillary is going to get the nomination. The republican party will be out for blood like hungry rabid dogs. The two parties are going to use every means neccessary to get to the White House and they will stop at nothing. If they don’t “cross the line” sometimes they could fall short of the finish line on Pennsylvania Avenue.
Dakine01
I just googled Cobb. Before he had this job, he was an Associate Counsel to the President.
Another resume padder.
Bernstein on CNN discussing HC now.
i’m hoping the clinton polling is not really hers… that would be such a mistake for her candidacy, for the party, and for the election process.
I’m to the point of praying that Edwards wins the nomination, or Gore chooses to run.
Bustednuckles @ 34
By definition if you call it helloscan, you were there. Welcome brother.
Albatross @ 4
I’d love to see a woman president but Hilary has always seemed hinky to me.
Mauimom @ 92
Malfeasance and incompetence in the Inspector General’s office of NASA re auditing and inspections. Particularly wrt safety issues of shuttles.
*xyz @ 91 –
you make a good argument.
i confess to being pretty unenthusiastic about the entire field of dem presidential candidates….
… until i look at the republican field.
Thanks!!
I don’t see Hillary as a leader or an inspiration, and Swopa’s report about this Iowa phone poll shows this. It’s another disappointment, because we are WAY past due for a female president.
wgg: rogue scholar @ 84
They don’t have to be associated with ancestral homelands, as long as they can demonstrate cultural continuity and cohesiveness.
Bob in HI
OT – is it just me? ever since the wordpress changes this morning, my comment refresh and comment post functions seem to be taking much longer.
LooHoo,
Link-a-doodle-doo.
Third story down.
-GSD
Senator Clinton’s coziness with Bush and Newt. Her vote in favor of the occupation of Iraq. Her close ties to the DLC. Her stubborn refusal to admit she blew the Iraq attack vote. Her refusal to debate her anti-war opponent in NY last year. So many ‘not goods’… Hillary.
Mauimom @ 92
I missed part of it but it looked like a hearing on complaints of how the NASA IG (Cobb) performed or didn’t perform on his job. Among the problems:
He created a hostile work environment which he semi-admitted to (claimed ONE instance where he used profanity and pounded the desk of one of the female subordinates in a threatening manner), short stopped a couple of search warrants signed by FBI, AUSA, and Fed judges because HE claimed to not see an underlying crime. Paucity of audits in relation to other IGs, a critical report from the IG intergrity board, and other things to numerous to mention.
egregious @ 98
It was just yesterday for some of us.
Pelosi first woman president ‘07 or Spring ‘08.
Brisingamen @ 96
I like Edwards, but there is something about him that just screams “second chair, bridesmaid, backup singer.” I can’t see him in the #1 spot winning the election. I also think that the GOP could “frame” him for the voters.
marshen @ 93
[my bold]
I beg to differ, we don’t know that Hillary is going to get the Democratic nomination.
Woodhall Hollow @ 93
That does explain a lot right there. At least he didn’t have the chipmunk voice. Nelson was saying very disappointed but you could tell he was P*ss’d…
egregious @ 73
to me there seems in some quarters to be an automatic/reflexive imputation of latent (or mebbe even overt) sexism to any criticism of HRC, the same way complaints of anti-Semitism start flying when Israel is criticized for anything.
./
It was just yesterday for some of us.
;)
dakine01 @ 108
Yep, and also complete and utter ignorance as to what the role of an IG is, and as a result numerous displays of phenomenally bad judgment. And creating an environment unfriendly (or even intimidating) to NASA whistleblowers.
Where from exactly does the bulk of Hillary’s campaign war-chest for prez come?
this whole post is based on a big assumption … that this call comes from Hillary’s camp. Another plausible explanation is that it is a sophisticated, reverse smear of Hillary.
I have no problem with this call being raised but the question should be who did it before passing out blame.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 108
and what about her friend Murdoch?
marshen @93: I refuse to believe that the fix could already be in.
Obama’s too green, Hillary’s a disaster waiting to happen, Gore says he isn’t running, and Edwards is hitting the items I’d want a President to care about…
dakine01 @ 44
He’s not a former astronaut — Nelson has been in politics most of his adult life. NASA did fly him in 1986, but he was a US Congressman at the time. Jake Garn, then a US Senator, also flew.
You can find Nelson’s official biography on his senate.gov site.
[edited to fix a typo]
*xyz @ 91
I certainly wouldn’t put it past the Clinton campaign to do something this brainless, like I said, I’m no fan, but I also wouldn’t put it past the Republicans either. They are currently in a world of hurt at the moment with their own field, and while the Rethug base would never vote for Hillary, moderates and indies might. Afterall, from my point of view Clinton and the DLC are essetnially Republican-lite, rather than Democrats. Further, Rethugs have got absolutely nothing to lose from sowing discord among Dems. Of course, the best reason I can think of why the Rethugs didn’t do it, would be their current shortage of funds for phone banks… Such a shame, eh ;)
AZ Matt @ 86
OMFG! hillarious!
Eureka Springs @ 111
oh yeah! the sooner the better!
Elliott @ 120
Yes. But I felt I was piling on. But good on you for saying it. ;0)
i did some research for ‘em back in the ’80s, when they’d had their claim in for about 15 years already…there was a lot of resistance…
it was a long time ago, now, and mebbe they’ve made progress on the case…
but at the time, much of the opposition was based on their dys-location…
selise @ 105
Hi selise. My experience is the opposite. Blistering-fast refreshes and posting. I like the changes, and the only “bug” I’ve seen so far is that “edit” doesn’t yet work.
Mac OS 10.4.9, Safari, etc.
Until I hear verification, I choose not to believe it. Sure sounds like a Republic trick to me but everyone here knows they are not capable of this. Right.
If it is not true, it will still be broadcast as if it is.
Just as someone here said Carville is not part of her campaign, it is repeated as fact that she is. Is Carville part of her campaign or a supporter?
What you critics consider “facts” should be enough to demonize her. No trumped up stories required.
I now support Senator Clinton big time! For Senator from NY.
If Clinton gets nomination I will pin large clothespin to my nose and pull lever but it was unforgivable Sunday when she blamed the chaos in Iraq on the Iraqis – Screw that! They never asked for us to come and we have made their country unlivable. It is a permanent shame to my country.
newtonusr @ 128
My posting and refresh also appear a bit slower, using the same OS, browser on iBook G4
as a long, long, long time HellsOwnSpawn sufferer, i cannot bring myself to quibble over paltry matters…
.
Sally @ 128:
Carville said in an interview several months ago that he was not working for HRC’s campaign and had no plans to do so.
FWIW
dakine01 @ 26
707!!!
as a long, long, long time HellsOwnSpawn sufferer, i cannot bring myself to quibble over paltry matters…
Brisingamen @ 134
it’s probably in his pre-nup
OT but more USA attorney-gate voter-fraud revelations!
Via Thinkprogress:
Bingo! No wonder McNulty wants out!
newtonusr @ 127
edit (usually) is working for me now. and i love the way it looks. but refreshing comments is not faster (i think slower – much slower).
strange – ‘cuz i’m also using Mac OS 10.4.9 & Safari (on g4 ibook).
p.s. thanks for the three little feet live recs from archive.org – i’ve been enjoying them.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 129
Me too, as a NY’er. But I support Gore for President!
It’s being circulated that Clinton has it all but locked up. And there’s nothing we can do about it. Hmmm…
Elliott @ 113
I was referring to in the back of everyone’s mind “know” rather than front page headlines in black and white “know.” Furthermore, I think this post about Hillary’s campaign tactics is trying to slap Hillary on the wrists for fighting down and dirty like any other male candidate would do and that it is’nt proper for a female candidate to compete on the same level. It’s subliminal sexism in play her.
I resent the DLC attempting to ram Senator Clinton down my throat.
New thread…
test
lemma @ 131
it was a pretty good country, there, really, i hear…saddam was a bad guy, that’s true…but even with saddam, mostly the living was tolerable…
that was before we –the USo’fuckingA– got in there and really started ‘helping people’….
.
phred @ 123
Last year I received a “poll” from the Clinton campaign on her letterhead. It was utterly genuine. It included a “poll” asking for my priorities over the next year. The friggin “poll” had absolutely nothing in it about the Iraq war! I got a red magic marker, and wrote “IRAQ!” over it in large cap letters, and sent it back. Having seen that somewhat disingenuous “poll,” I am not too surprised to hear about the current endeavor, and would not put it past Hillary’s team to conduct such a thing.
Bob in HI
Clinton did a fine job in the NH debates. I thought she put on the best performance, particularly demonstrating command of policy detail. She also stood up to Wolf’s moronic hand raise questions. She did that very effectively–the question was if you were told you could take out Osama bin Laden and some innocent bystanders with a predator, but only in the next 20 minutes, would you do it?
She dismissed the question as a hypothetical, and spoke briefly about the care with which decisions like this are made. Obama did something similar on a different issue, saying these questions and the handraising is meant to divide democrats. But Clinton’s response was more effective–and drew applause.
She also had the two best oneliners of the night–one involving Cheney not being a diplomat and Goldwater’s “You don’t have to straight to shoot straight.” That’s another one, actually. Wolf tried to hang Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell on her, and she responded very well, saying that’s the best they could do at the time.
But they mostly all did well. Richardson came off poorly.
Elliott @ 136
This is so obvious that it need not even be noted, but…
I’m sure it’s been said here before and thought of by everyone on the planet who can form the acronym “WTF”, but was Carville actually thinking he could be regarded by Dems as anything but a younger “Zell Miller” by pulling this Libby letter crap, as anything but a bristling pariah?
Has he sworn off the Democratic Party for good?
Not that that’s a bad thing.
Brisingamen @ 134, I’m convinced but there are others here who need that fact if facts matter where Senator Clinton is concerned.
The logic of saying flawed, flawed Clinton is o.k. for the Senate despite all she is accused of doesn’t quite pass the smell test. Not bad enough for the Senate where she alone decided that Bush would invade Iraq and commit all the mistakes that followed. That Clinton?
egregious @ 73
Me also. (I’m not really crazy about any of the others at this point. But Hillary needs to lose some of those advisers, possibly after investigating who they’re really working for.)
selise @ 139
It’s all your fault! Once introduced to the archive, I return there for stuff constantly.
Just what I needed – another addiction.
BTW, I mistakenly pointed commenters to the wrong place for mp3’s on Schlozman-Graves. I corrected it quickly, but if you get any comments as to that, it was my fault.
*kicks shoes & begs forgivness* in advance.
Bob Schacht @ 147
Fair enough. But you have to admit that the phone poll tactic in the article is SO stupid, that it is hard to imagine anyone would think otherwise :) Yet another reason to add to my anti-Hillary list ;)
FYI, Jane is upstairs
Hey, I hear Ralph Nader is running for President. If anyone can’t make it to the polls, I’ll be happy to drive you. Meet me at the Shell station, I’m the guy wearing the “Lusers” hat. Hey, I hear Hillary once invested in a Krugerrands mine – now that’s exploitive. Apparently Chelsea is adopted as well – Hillary was too frigid to conceive, so they adopted an Icelandic baby instead. Really, look at the videos – Chelsea rubs noses at political events, though I don’t understand how she graduated Stanford that way. Probably special treatment.
newtonusr @ 151
that is all my fault… screwed up the file locations – should have stuck with the original url… guess that’s what i get for throwing up a page and not thinking things through…
oh, well… live and learn – i’m just a newbie learning by doing (and screwing up) *g*.
p.s. you think archive.org is good now – you should have seen it before all the hifi grateful dead was taken down.
On the phone for 40 minutes?!? Sweet fuckin’ Jesus! If I spend 40 minutes on the phone with some one, it better involve some large unknown inheritance, or sex. But 40 minutes on politics, say again: sweet fuckin’ Jesus!
FWIW, comment refresh stalled for me. I had to do it from the browser.
P J Evans @ 157
that’s been happening to me – a lot… but only since this morning. i wonder if i have something set up wrong?
selise @ 156
Not being a DeadHead:
I’ve been told that by dead fans repeatedly. Dead-Heads have told me about “lots of DeadShows here…” to the point where I thought that the archive was Dead-only. Only when you pointed me there did I get it.
OK. just crashed Safari on different machine with same setup.
*bows deeply, all red-faced*
P J Evans @ 158
I just had that happen for me, too. Maybe it has something to do with a new thread being posted??
Joe D. @ 157, someone who would spend 40 minutes on the call described sounds like a reliable person to me. And didn’t wait for the caller to finish? Sure.
Once more, why does Clinton want to be president? Is it her last name? Does Her Beloved Husband desire it for her/him?
Push-polling is very dirty campaigning. It’s what Republicans do. I’m for aggressive debate, not secret back-stabs and manipulation of voters’ feelings.
Hillary is not a feminist.
MSM – please ask Hillary: Do you push-poll? Is it wrong? Why do you want to be president?
Hillary is all authenticitude.
I’m for Edwards but so far the media is hurting him. Mostly they ignore him. It’s all Hillary/Obama. All the time. Unless there’s something negative, Edwards is being ignored.
And, FWIW, I think they know exactly what they’re doing cuz Hillary will be the easiest to beat.
In the end, though, I will work diligently for the dem candidate. No matter which one gets it.
Hillary likes to follow polls like Billy, but the problem with her is that she is clumsy and not as politically deft as Billy. She does not have the political touch of her hubby, and really is as brutal to others as Rove is. Plus, if anyone took the time to read the nytimes piece on, “Hillary’s War” you will come away with the simple fact that she, too, is using the Iraq war for her own political gain–she voted for it, declined to join Byrd and/or Levin’s amendment, and only co-sponsored a bill demanding some accountability by PENCLING IN HER NAME ON IT, which every staffer questioned about it were stunned. Then she “took at stand” on the war and led the charge, ONLY WHEN the tide was changing. She got out in front of the issue, just like Billy was famous for, and took it as her own.
She is completely disingenious. And do democrats really want a candidate that is going to drum up this same, very old, cultural war between the cool, Boomer democrats, and the Boomer republican dorks? Plus, as Badwater mentioned above, she will rally the conservative base to vote more than anything. She would be the gift that keeps on giving for the repubs.
But this may be a moot point, because Edwards and Obama are kicking her tail in the first few primary states.
Hillary Clinton..John McCain..
Cable News really wants a showdown between these two candidates in 2008. It’s been getting built up since 2004.
Thus, Hillary’s ’smear’ tactics of opponents. These phone calls are reminiscent of the primaries between G.W. Bush and John McCain, where callers were informed that John McCain had illegitimate children, then asked if this will affect how the voter votes.
I sent this to Hillary’s campaign so it can confirm or deny what she is accused of. That would have been the best place to start.
Of course, the accusation has been made and it is so lovely it will be used against her.
What we need is another round of GWB so go ahead and foul the place.
swopa @ 161
Possibly. Things get weird when that’s happening, I know.
dakine01 @ 132
Ditto, got the slows-G4 Powerbook, 10.4.9, Safari, etc
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 41
“we dont need no stinkin’ badges?” “remember the alamo?” dang if I can remember. guess i’ll have to keep reading.
This site is crashing my browser (Maxthon, which is IE based) when I access links. Not always but enough to be annoying.
SeamusD @ 169
hmmm… well, hopefully some wise & kind tech people will see this and advise… ‘cuz i’m getting to the point where i’m about ready to scream in frustration! :(
TiredFed @ 170
“You got to put put food on yur chil’ren”… no, “Often is the question asked, ‘Is our chil’ren learning’”? No?
selise @ 172
FWIW, the new Netscape Navigator 9.0b1 – MAC BETA – is out (browse-only), and is stable here… for a few minutes, so far.
selise @ 173
Selise, luvya and sorry about the frustrations.
There are still a few tweaks going on backstage and the best thing I can say for the moment is clearing your cache every so often may help.
Remember the transition from blogger?
RBG @ 175
Speaking for myself only, very happy to beta for FDL.
Interesting take from a small handful of DFA folks at the monthly meetup last night, here in flyover country. They all agree they hear that Clinton is leading, but none of them support her or actually know anybody supporting her.
However they all know somebody working on Obama’s campaign locally, two different people in two different neighboring counties. And they all had favorables for Edwards.
But they also believe Gore is running a stealth campaign — and they’d all vote for him over any other candidate.
They are mildly amused by Gravel, and disappointed in Richardson’s recent performances (great cred & chops, but poor public appearances of late).
I’ll be sure to ask if anybody has gotten calls canvassing/surveying next month. With a sizeable number of electoral votes and moves to an earlier primary, wouldn’t be surprised if we start hearing something soon, too.
RBG @ 175
luvya right back!
please, please don’t think that any of my frustration is directed in your direction! you, and everyone else working behind the scenes, are my heros!
and anyway, since it’s working great for others using safari, maybe it’s me (and the few others with the problem)… i’m probably just too ignorant to figure it out..
This story, if true tells me one thing, Hillary and her team do not understand how a caucus system works, and in particular they don’t understand Iowa Political Culture.
Caucus decisions (how many delegates to give one candidate over another) are not made by individuals isolated in their own homes and available by phone. They are decisions discussed in the cafe’s with good pie in every precinct in Iowa. People know who the democrats in their neighborhood are, they know who normally attends caucus, and beginning after labor day, after the candidates have been around, they do gather in the cafes and talk out impressions. Lots of these discussions last hours — they are not passionate, but Iowa Democrats are well read, they have views on issues, and people generally come down to two possibilities — maybe three, but the discussion is as much about issues as personalities.
Then they go home, fix dinner, and talk to family. More than likely they don’t decide yet, they think out the questions that have not yet been asked. They look around the state — who is supporting whom? Gradually they fix on a favorite. But remember, they are going to a caucus, and a caucus is NOT a primary.
For anyone wanting to win in Iowa, one needs to have a local Democrat with some influence who expresses support. These are the folk who sit round the coffee table with all the others, and this person needs to know how to soft sell. You don’t achieve this with any kind of poll, much less a push poll with negatives. You have to come across clear on the two big questions, who might be best for Iowa? and who would be good for the US right now? If you have people at the table who can make a candidate’s case on those questions, you gain supporters. You don’t get such supporters in Iowa (or Minnesota where we have similar rules) by polling.
Now, at a caucus you have to show good organization, knowledge of the rules, and a highly cooperative attitude. When the Caucus begins, the number of attendees is divided by the number of delegates, leading to a number of how many caucus votes you need to elect one delegate. Frequently it is like seven or nine. Then everyone running for delegate states their candidate preference. You keep tabs. You have a number of nine — it appears you have attenders to elect four delegates, but you have the small remainder — say three or four extra votes. If you are Hillary leaning, you don’t want to give your small remainder to Obama — but you might think of Richardson (Iowa has a huge Latin population these days in the meatcutting industry). Richardson probably won’t get the nomination, but you need his supporters, and they have not quite enough for one delegate — so you move your three Hillary small remainders over to Richardson, and help him get a delegate. Maybe you ask for the alternate in that sub-caucus. Deals are made — unmade — remade. Maybe Richardson could be a VP — maybe not. The point is everyone votes in public, and they probably negotiate tactically with their vote. Most likely there are no more than 50 or 60 people engaged in all this. (knowing the rules, you see, is helpful). After many weeks of chatting about the choices in the town or neighborhood cafe, you kinda know who is supporting whom — but Caucus night is when you do the ritual and decide in a proportional way, who gets your delegates. Polling is totally useless in this kind of dynamic. And I thought Hillary had smart advisors!!!
The two candidates who historically mastered the Iowa Caucus were Jimmy Carter and Gary Hart — and both, I believe, had a cultural understanding of the town cafe, coffee and pie. (both grew up in rural America).
So cheap advice to Hillary or any other Iowa candidate. No polls. Get the lists of previous caucus goers, particularly those elected to state convention, and invite them to a meeting, serve coffee and pie, and answer questions. Ask them to do something for you, such as find ten more people to meet with you at a future meeting. Then let your staff work out who is the Clinton Caucus leader precinct by precinct — and let them focus on organization, recruitment, and back them and your staff up. And remember, Harkin has to run again next year for the Senate, and he is going to need your delegates committed to him, because at state convention they vote for the national delegates as well as the Senate Endorsement. You win Iowa if you can collaborate.
Kos rather pissed me off in 2004 with his Anti-Iowa Caucus screed. Look, it is the old New England Town Meeting with slightly different rules. Problem was Howard Dean did not comprehend, and too many Orange Hats came from the culture where you do this with TV advertising…and yes, polling. But Iowa has about 2000 caucuses, and any candidate worth salt needs a precinct leader in way more than half — and if you don’t know how to build grass roots organization, forget Iowa. (and also Minnesota where we have similar rules.) Money counts less than someone willing to make phone calls to get folk out to meet a candidate.
I too am someone “waiting for Gore” as the saying goes. I haven’t read Bernstein’s book yet, plan to, but I agree with the critique of HRC that she is inauthentic. But my main concern with HRC is that she thinks in small tactics, and I believe the 2008 election could be a Mandate Election — the potential is there for a landslide in otherwords, both in congress and for the White House. In the 20th Century we had a couple of Mandate elections, FDR in 1936, Lyndon Johnson in 1964, and perhaps Nixon in 1972. You have to know what few big things you want to do with a Mandate, because it doesn’t last all that long. For FDR the productive years were first term — relief for the unemployed, Social Security, Rural Electrification, Unemployment Insurance, the Wagner Labor Act — right of labor to organize, and a few other things. For LBJ it was Voting Rights, Medicare, Medicade, and many other Great Society Programs such as Headstart. Nixon lost it over Watergate. (thank God). With plus 70% of the country saying wrong track, and low 60’s down hard on Bush, what candidate fits “big agenda” and what would be the priority in that big agenda. Who do you want to manage a real mandate which might be possible?
Sara @ 180, do you really think Bill Clinton doesn’t know how the system works?
A big mandate will be to clean up the Bush mess, starting with Iraq.
Thanks for that, Sara, excellent overview. My own state Michigan also has a caucus, although it is really more like a primary. The elements that are more caucus-like are the discussions that union members typically have, as well as the positions their leadership takes on candidates.
I don’t know that it wouldn’t hurt any candidate to have regular townhalls in the four earliest states (NV, NH, IA, SC) as they will set the trend for all subsequent states. I’d heard Edwards had been doing an excellent job of this with IA. This seems to be a weak spot for HRC; I can understand that she’s got a full time job, but I can’t understand why she’s going negative in lieu of actual presence (goes to the arguments for inauthenticity).
Oops, meant to ask whether any FirePup participated in concall with Peter Daou yesterday; I’d gotten an invite, but couldn’t attend.
??
Zzzz…
Bill Clinton NEVER ran in a competitive Iowa Caucus. In 1992 Tom Harkin was a candidate, and all the others deferred to him and his Iowa Caucus as a favorite son. I was a Minnesota Harkin supporter that year till he dropped out the day of our Legislative District Convention — I got to State Convention as an uncommitted Progressive, because I was not willing to follow the band wagon just yet. In 1996 there was really no contest. I sat in the bleachers till the endorsement of Wellstone came up (introduced by Norm Coleman who was then DFL) and when they called for a voice vote for endorsement, I shouted at the top of my lungs even though I wasn’t a delegate that year. (Make a loud noise unto the Lord).
Albatross @ 4
Unfortunately that has to be considered.
God, I wish this Bush administration was over and Karl Rove was in jail. It was so much nicer before America was in their hands.
dakine01 @ 44
You know what would be shocking? If somewhere along the way, during these oversight hearings, there actually was one (don’t expect any though) pure truthful Executive branch Bush appointee. I think I would fall off my chair.
Elliott @ 137
My favorite from ‘talking heads’ was at the Panetta/Monterey kumbaya when O’Reilly said the anti-war crowd just amazed him and he had this dazed blank look which said he really had no clue; then Carville said Edwards was a very talented guy (and added no negatives or much else) and he had the same blank look on his face.
It was pretty clear these guys just don’t understand this year’s Dem primary race. Weird, huh?
Does anybody here know a way to confirm whether this poll really was commissioned by Hillary’s campaign? Seems like that’s a pretty important question. Also, do we know for sure that the poll respondent is telling a straight story?
It’s awful to have to be so suspicious, but this push-poll does sound like something Karl Rove might fake.
Note, too, that polling organizations are not supposed to reveal who their client is. The caller supposedly admitting it was the Clinton campaign sounds very fishy to me. If this were a dirty trick, of course then the caller would “admit” that it came from Hillary.
If this is really Hillary’s campaign, shame on her. That would worry me a lot. Maybe someone could ask Hillary if the poll was indeed hers?
Also, if anyone else experiences anything like this, I suggest the person receiving the call ask for the name of the polling organization.
Sally @ 181
I don’t mean to jump over Sara here, but I’d like to answer this.
Yes, Bill understands. But, Hillary and her campaign staff might not manage it as well as he would.
A big mandate would be very useful, but I don’t think we’re going to get it — not like LBJ got it. There’s still election fraud to consider and the Repubs are excellent in elections, so I wouldn’t expect more than a 5% win. Don’t be surprised if the national polls show a Repub lead at some point. The press just can’t be trusted to be fair. And, that could push some voters toward the Repub candidate.
The question of which Dem candidate knows what to do with a mandate is intriguing. It’s also very important. I think fixing Bush’s mess is only part of it. If we only relegate ourselves to fixing Repub messes then they’ll just keep making them bigger and bigger. We have to imagine a much bigger picture of what America can be and a dynamic which will get us there. Sadly perhaps, this includes finding a way to relate to Repubs so they won’t go so far off the reservation that it causes constant Constitutional crises.
Which candidate can or wants to see a hopeful future? Dunno. We have to listen to them and hope we’ve got a winner or two.
What to do with a big mandate.
Single Payer Health Care based on a Value Added Tax, (which is how the Danes, Norwegians and Swedes finance it). It has been on promise since 1938. Time is Nye.
Wellstone came to understand that you could not do it unless you somehow blessed the Insurance Industry — too powerful. His solution was to divide Health Care. Feds collect the money, finance public health and education and training of all medical professionals, and medical research. Feds set the menu of required services. The rest of the money is divided to the states with they being required to establish a quasi politically sensitive Health Regents Board that would plan and deliver all services, mandated by the feds, and perhaps extra mandates from the states. Over a short (like ten years) the state Regents would take ownership of all Health Care Facilities, and plan service delivery — meaning they would put all Doctors, nurses and all the rest on salary and describe jobs and allowcate resources so as to meet needs. They would eventually own the whole system as a trust. Terms of Regents would be fairly long — perhaps six years with a two term limit, and distributed among regions and stakeholders in the system. State Regent Boards would be rewarded if they could improve quality while lowering unit costs. R & D would gravitate toward cost savings while preserving quality. But if a state wanted to hire a former insurance company to administer — fine, if they could do it within cost requirements.
No tie to employment at all — but all transactions that represent value added would be taxed. (In Denmark you get something like 18% added to a bill in a restaurant for value added — higher in really fancy places.) Imports would be so taxed so as to diminish the advantage of low cost manufacturing sites off shore with credits for quality health care for off shore workers. It would be a universal citizen’s system — non-citizens could buy in at a cost plus rate. All other policies would be abolished — when system costs go up, then the value added tax goes up. When the systems find economies, then that tax goes down. Paul thought Vet Medical Care ought to be a community expense — thus he would have eliminated that organization as well as Indian Health Service and much else we hardly see. States would be required to plan and partially finance medical, nursing and technical ed based on projections of need perhaps 40 years out, and they would be totally responsible for facilities — hospitals, clinics and how they are organized. The goal would be a fully non-profit system, but for some years a cost controlled profit should be allowed. (gotta deal with Harry and Louise one way or another).
Anyhow, that would be my first big thing with a mandate, and I guarentee you Democrats would get elected for 40 years if they can do it.
Second Mandate matter — Education.
Full funding of Headstart, make it full day, and cover 100%. Currently we cover about 35% of those elegiable.
Rebuild all inner city schools built before perhaps 1945. Make them Green.
Subsidize teacher salaries so that they equal the entry level and more advanced private sector salaries. The cost of a BA to teach and a BA to do business is the same. Income ought to track. Over time forgive all teacher’s student loans.
Establish a national curriculum for basic and general education. (more or less like the French Model). Then teach to it using no more than half of any school day. The remainder of the day would be for music, art, and creative or sports activities. School should be full day — similar to parent’s work day. Mama isn’t at home any more with the milk and cookies.
Third big project — Higher Education. Needs a thorough going audit, and reduced in price either through subsidies or economies. We should be moving at least 60% of 18 year olds into Higher Ed, and providing late entry avenues.
Hey, I hear Hillary is really lobbying to make abortion illegal and wants to make Iraq the permanent seat of the UN. Pass it on.
Bob@147 :D :D Good for you!
Ralph@189
Yes, I agree. Everyone should always ask the name of the pollsters and who is paying them, who they’re working for. I believe they have to spill, if asked. Sure, they could lie and anymore you just don’t know. I advocated fucking with the polls last year because they’re tailoring their campaign to win based on polls. Well, if the poll data is screwy they’ll all start bumping into each other.
This may or may not have been Hillary’s people. Could have been Gooliani’s or Mitt’s seeing how they could be more like Bill Clinton…. or even Hil. It could have even been Edwards or Obama. Who knows. Nothing is as it was.
You can also look up the number who called at “whocalled.us”, and record the instance and make a comment about it. Mostly, it is telemarketeers listed, but I listed one poll last year. The site gives a nice map graphic pinpointing all the calls that number made. They change their numbers all the time though.
Another site you can pinpoint the city called from is at the North American Numbering Plan site. http://www.nanpa.com/nas/publi…..QueryModel
Hope this helps.
Will those persons who speak out for Gore, I say no more Gore. He was forced into politics by his parents and was out debated by Bush. He is the most ineffective politician around. And the movie making don’t count. He ran the worst campaign ever, even worse than Kerry. The election should not have been close. I am much more scared of Gore than HRC. I would much rather have Bill Clinton advising the next President than Tipper Gore and her lonely hearts band
Seems to me this story is not well sourced, and it’s sort of sad to see Democrats just assume the worst in other Democrats. But whatever.
This appears to be an attempt to smear Hillary Clinton. ANYbody can say they were polled. I’d like to see more evidence please. Until then, SWOPA should stop presenting conjecture as facts.
It’s disgusting.
I live in Iowa and I participated in this poll. It did, indeed, take about 40 minutes. I also got the impression that many of the questions gravitated toward Hillary, but my sense was that it was not a Clinton poll. There were plenty of questions regarding the other top-tier candidates. Actually, I initially thought the poll was being run by Fox News or some Republican-funded outlet, because the questioner kept using the term, “Democrat Party” right off his script.
Anyway, I did get the impression that many of the questions were aimed at trying to get me to change my mind about Clinton (I’m an Edwards supporter). However, I don’t recall many negative questions or comments about her opponents. I was even questioned about who I caucused for in in 2004.
After awhile I felt I was being interviewed.
MarkH @ 187
I am an unreserved Progressive Democrat and he’s an unapologetic Republican, but over the past 20 years I have come to know Robert “Moose” Cobb very well. And I can tell you that this is your honest man.
Whether you liked his style or not, Cobb was nothing but “pure and truthful” in his testimony yesterday. This may be the one Bush appointee who does not have “close ties” within the Bush administration. He’s not from Texas. He didn’t go to Yale. He’s not wealthy, or from a particularly wealthy or well-connected family. He is not a follower of extreme right wing ideology and he doesn’t take orders or “carry water” for anyone in the Bush administration. He is simply a highly qualified lawyer with a strong background in government ethics who was recommended to this President when Bush was first installed by the Supreme Court.
As I said, I know Mr. Cobb, and I can understand why some employees might have reacted negatively to his management style. But fortunately for a lot of people in management positions, it is not illegal to have bad management style.
The investigators in this particular case spent more than a year and a half aggressively trying to find something of substance against Mr. Cobb. That they didn’t find anything after all that time, other than a management style that was objectionable, is due entirely to the fact the Mr. Cobb didn’t do anything illegal or improper as IG of NASA.