thank you Marcy for explaining it all

Judge Walton!!

zed?

drats!!

Ah, missed by THAT much.

New Froomkin lede is Rule of Law on ramifications of Bush pardon of Libby

Great work Marcy!! Keep it up.

If they let him walk free on bail, I’ll really be pissed. I want his kiester behind bars, where he might consider ratting out those who abandoned him or who caused him to “fall on his sword for the VPOTUS” as some apologists have said.

OTOH, if he’s pardoned soonest, like the wingers are whinging for with increasing vehemence, that means he’ll be subpoenaed instanter and have testify under penalty of perjury.

Rock, meet hard place.

Marcy is a hero. Damn smart too!!

Jabba speaks.

Ailes: “The Candidates That Can’t Face Fox, Can’t Face Al Qaeda”

The DC Circuit has quite an alumni:

A judgeship on the D.C. Circuit is often thought of as a stepping-stone for appointment to the Supreme Court. Chief Justice John Roberts and Associate Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg are alumni of the D.C. Circuit. In addition, the Reagan Administration put forth two failed nominees in 1987 from the D.C. Circuit: former Judge Robert Bork, who was rejected by the Senate, and current Chief Judge Douglas H. Ginsburg, who withdrew his nomination after it became known that he had used marijuana as a college student and professor in the 1960s and 1970s. Before the 1980s, Chief Justices Fred M. Vinson and Warren Burger, as well as Associate Justice Wiley Blount Rutledge, served on the D.C. Circuit before their elevations to the Supreme Court.

Oy, The Famous Wheeler! Great job to all involved!

Fred Thompson is living in a different reality than the rest of the world, he is in the Hannity Dimension!

THOMPSON: And yet they picked him out to bring the burden of this entire political witch hunt on him, this single individual, and prosecuted him. And now the judge saw fit to go way beyond what his own probation officer recommended was a suitable sentence.

HANNITY: Statutory guidelines, yes.

THOMPSON: Yes, yes, and it’s just — this sentencing is just the last…

HANNITY: I only have a second in this segment. If you were president, would you pardon him? And do you think the president would pardon him? And would you pardon him now?

THOMPSON: I would, absolutely.

HANNITY: Do you think the president should?

THOMPSON: It’s a gross injustice perpetuated in large part by this CIA, and this Justice Department, and this special counsel, who they appointed, and it ought to be rectified.

The Hannity Dimension – Where Truth is False!

Is there any chance that the IIPA violation could be pursued now? Even if it didn’t result in conviction, it would get more of the facts out.

So much for loyalty, or decency, or courage. For President Bush, loyalty is apparently a one-way street; decency is something he’s for as long as he doesn’t have to take any risks in its behalf; and courage–well, that’s nowhere to be seen. Many of us used to respect President Bush. Can one respect him still?

Amen!

(holy crap, who did I just agree with?)

Froomkin has Jane’s analysis of Libby’s courtroom statement and a link to FDL in his column today…

Janice Rogers Brown might be another one to worry about on the DC Circuit:

Brown’s political views are probably best described as libertarian as she called the Federalist Society a “rare bastion (nay beacon) of conservative and libertarian thought” and that the “latter notion made your invitation well-nigh irresistible”.[6]

snip)

However, Brown’s libertarian views are evidently not inconsistent with her endorsing a theory of vigorous executive power, as shown by her dissenting opinion in Omar v. Harvey.[8] The United States Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit upheld an injunction that forbade the U.S. military to transfer Omar, a suspected insurgent, out of U.S. custody while his habeas corpus suit was pending. Judge Brown’s dissent took the view that the majority was trespassing on the Executive Branch’s authority:

Marcy rocks! And so does Jane, thanks ladies!

From the Froomkin link in 5 above:

Jane Hamsher blogs for Firedoglake: “It is customary for those found guilty to express contrition during the sentencing phase, a factor that judges take very seriously when determining jail time. Libby expressed none. Zero, zip, bupkis. It was my impression during the trial watching Libby that he thought himself a great man to whom a terrible wrong has been done. Today Scooter’s career as a man on trial ended and his life as professional right wing victim began.”

Did we already know that Libby represented Richard Armitage pro bono in the 1990’s for improper business conduct in Vietnam (where he did 2 tours as a Navy Seal? (It’s in one of the Libby letters.)

What an incestuous group. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Great round up! Saw you flinging that jacket over your shoulder on c-span yesterday, Marcy.

I have a legal question, if anyone has the answer. Just say, for argument’s sake, that the DC appeals court decides to allow the appeal and slaps down the conviction. Can Fitz force it up to the Supreme Court? Or would that be the end of it?

(it is just that I would wonder what would happen to the justice system of this kind of perjury/obstruction conviction were allowed to be overturned, given that it is such a potent tool in the nation’s prosecutorial arsenal. Being that most on the bench are such law and order types, at least when it comes to the ‘little people.”)

AZ Matt @ 10

I thought that was the Insanity Dimension…

The Bush Administration are very fearful. Mr. Wells is trying to do everything in his power to prolong his client Libby to go prison. Now that we were told Libby’s fate, it puts a dark cloud on the Bush Administration and Dick Cheney for their involvement in a WH plot to punish Joe Wilson. The Bush Administration cannot afford to have the public to become focus on wanting the CIA case reopened again and becaome the center again of attention. We shall see what happens today. Great video, Marcy!

Sally @ 16

From the Froomkin link in 5 above:

Jane Hamsher blogs for Firedoglake: “It is customary for those found guilty to express contrition during the sentencing phase, a factor that judges take very seriously when determining jail time. Libby expressed none. Zero, zip, bupkis. It was my impression during the trial watching Libby that he thought himself a great man to whom a terrible wrong has been done. Today Scooter’s career as a man on trial ended and his life as professional right wing victim began.”

But if he expressed contrition, that would be sort of like an admission of guilt.

Scooter’s kids’ names are carefully redacted in all the letters so far….except oops, there they are in Carol Harrison’s letter.

(Mods, can you pull my other comment out of moderation? Tks.)

From Bush’s Surgeon General Nominee: Gay Sex is Hazardous to Your Health (via HuffPost).

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/…..aryId=1915

AZ Matt @ 10

Oy, The Famous Wheeler! Great job to all involved!

Fred Thompson is living in a different reality than the rest of the world, he is in the Hannity Dimension!

THOMPSON: And yet they picked him out to bring the burden of this entire political witch hunt on him, this single individual, and prosecuted him. And now the judge saw fit to go way beyond what his own probation officer recommended was a suitable sentence.

HANNITY: Statutory guidelines, yes.

THOMPSON: Yes, yes, and it’s just — this sentencing is just the last…

HANNITY: I only have a second in this segment. If you were president, would you pardon him? And do you think the president would pardon him? And would you pardon him now?

THOMPSON: I would, absolutely.

HANNITY: Do you think the president should?

THOMPSON: It’s a gross injustice perpetuated in large part by this CIA, and this Justice Department, and this special counsel, who they appointed, and it ought to be rectified.

The Hannity Dimension – Where Truth is False!

Good Lard! This is puke-inducing repeat the talking points ad nauseum spew.

silver lining?: perhaps law and order republicans will see thru the Law&Order actor with this crap. They really cling to their bubble, don’t they?

Well, justice has been served for now. Unfortunately we can’t alter whatever pardoning decision Dubya makes, but in the meantime, it sure is great watching the wingnuts hurl all over their hero.

Brett Kavanaugh is another one:

(snip)

Kavanaugh earned a one-year fellowship in the Office of the Solicitor General of the United States, Kenneth Starr. The Solicitor General’s office represents the United States before the Supreme Court. Kavanaugh has argued both civil and criminal matters before the Supreme Court and appellate courts throughout the country.

Prior to his appointment to the federal bench, Kavanaugh served as Assistant to the President and Staff Secretary. In that capacity, he was responsible for coordinating all documents to and from the President. He previously served for two years as Senior Associate Counsel and Associate Counsel to the President. In that capacity, he worked on the numerous constitutional, legal, and ethical issues handled by that office.

Sparkles the Iguana @ 17

Did we already know that Libby represented Richard Armitage pro bono in the 1990’s for improper business conduct in Vietnam (where he did 2 tours as a Navy Seal? (It’s in one of the Libby letters.)

What an incestuous group. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Well, I don’t believe Armitage was a SEAL. He was Naval Intel. But I otherwise agree with your comment.

Ghostman

Oops, Carol Harrison’s letter also has the name of the street the Libbys live on.

S.O.S. from MA @ 7

If they let him walk free on bail, I’ll really be pissed. I want his kiester behind bars, where he might consider ratting out those who abandoned him or who caused him to “fall on his sword for the VPOTUS” as some apologists have said.

OTOH, if he’s pardoned soonest, like the wingers are whinging for with increasing vehemence, that means he’ll be subpoenaed instanter and have testify under penalty of perjury.

Rock, meet hard place.

gotta question: what’s to stop Leahy from getting Libby to testify now? 2nd question: would it be a good idea to give Libby immunity from further prosecution (heck, he’s going to jail for a couple of years anway) so as to preclude taking the 5th? they want to get Cheney and Bush right? so why not see if Libby is ready to talk now?

SP Biloxi @ 20

The Bush Administration are very fearful. Mr. Wells is trying to do everything in his power to prolong his client Libby to go prison. Now that we were told Libby’s fate, it puts a dark cloud on the Bush Administration and Dick Cheney for their involvement in a WH plot to punish Joe Wilson. The Bush Administration cannot afford to have the public to become focus on wanting the CIA case reopened again and becaome the center again of attention. We shall see what happens today. Great video, Marcy!

Well I don’t know how fearful Cheney is, if he posted his tribute to Scooter on the White House web site…I’m just sayin’

do-si-do @24: It’s a “witch hunt” when any attempt at prosecuting criminal activity involves Republicans. When it’s a Dem being prosecuted, it’s “justice.”

Man, Thompson is sure showing what a slime he is here.

And why do they keep trying to piss off the CIA? Can anybody help me out on this one?

Lies from the WSJ,

“If he (Libby) goes to jail it will be, above all, for two reasons: He was energetically defending the Administration’s prewar intelligence at a time when most everyone else in the Administration — from Condi Rice to Colin Powell and Steven Hadley was running from it; and he refused to do a Harold Ickes and fail “to recall” when investigators came knocking.”

Don’t they mean do a Gonzo? Notice they go
back to Ickes… the WSJ editorial board is so full of shit.

Here’s hoping they all lose their fucking jobs to a Murdoch takeover (so sweet)…

Funny how Bill Kristol sees what Libby, the OSP and the WHIG were doing prior to the illegal invasion of Iraq, as something that was in the best interests of this country when in fact I would be willing to bet my life that Cheney and Libby have committed treason by there deliberate attempts to manipulate intelligence while at the same time sabotaging our intelligence capabilities related to WMD’s not to mention blatant fear-mongering by the Bush administration that fits their own definition of terrorism.

Folks, lets leave Scooter’s kids out of this. They didn’t ask for this, and as a parent, I’d prefer that children get left out of the melee altogether. Thanks.

Sparkles the Iguana @ 17

Did we already know that Libby represented Richard Armitage pro bono in the 1990’s for improper business conduct in Vietnam (where he did 2 tours as a Navy Seal? (It’s in one of the Libby letters.)

What an incestuous group. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

If not, then that may help explain why Armitage helped betray Valerie Plame’s identity.

silver lining?: perhaps law and order republicans will see thru the Law&Order actor with this crap.

As I said yesterday – Law & Order, my ass.

…Today Scooter’s career as a man on trial ended and his life as professional right wing victim began.

Heh. Up until yesterday, Scooter had merely been playing for the farm team; he got his wings, pulled up to the Big Leagues now, along side the likes of Ollie North as martyr celebre.

What really, really bugged me as I went through all the letters is that in spite of all the noted acts of generosity, kindness and efforts above and beyond, that the martyr celebre Scooter Libby could not simply do his f*cking job.

He could not make any effort to check the status of Plame’s employment as covert or overt, could not take affirmative action to protect her identity, could not prevent others from damaging her cover — in spite of his alleged expertise in national security and signature of more than one SF-312 in his career.

It would be an incredible injustice for Libby to be able to stay out pending appeal, because we know that he will pardoned as soon after the November 2008 elections as practicable. They’ll wait that long to keep from torpedoing Republican candidates, but after that Bush will start pardoning all his coconspirators, Libby just being one of them.

If he’s on bail pending appeal, he will never serve a day in jail.

OT:

Probably missed it, but, I’d like to know if a link to ALL the Libby letters is available somewhere???

Bush is a scumbag. He will pardon him, say he was a loyal employee and that it was sensitive and then refuse to comment. He’ll say something like, “there’s a lot of talk about it, but I’m not going to comment. I did what I did, and was in my power to do.”

It will be another fuk you to Congress and America. And he’ll keep doing it until someone stops him.

And here’s the Chief Judge of the DC Circuit, Douglas H. Ginsburg (no relation to Ruth), whose inhaling doomed his nomination to SCOTUS in 1987:

Ginsburg is perhaps best known in legal circles for his views on Constitutional interpretation, known by the shorthand “Constitution in Exile”, taken from a phrase used in a book review Ginsburg penned in the journal Regulation. Roughly, Ginsburg’s approach advocates reversing the expansions of federal power, particularly under the Interstate Commerce Clause, starting in the 1930s.

(snip)

Critics of Ginsburg’s approach argue that such a philosophy would require overturning several decades of Supreme Court precedent, significantly undermining the doctrine of stare decisis.

My bold. Apt for the current state of our Constitution right now.

GeorgeSimian @ 39

Bush is a scumbag. He will pardon him, say he was a loyal employee and that it was sensitive and then refuse to comment. He’ll say something like, “there’s a lot of talk about it, but I’m not going to comment. I did what I did, and was in my power to do.”

It will be another fuk you to Congress and America. And he’ll keep doing it until someone stops him.

Absolutely. That’s why we need to impeach his arse… stop playing nice with a bully…

OT:
If Alfred K is around, getting second opinion: upcoming sh*t here in SoCal. Survival gear and trade goods buying. Time frame not established, but I’d be surprised if it was longer than weeks.

I think our long-hanging shoe may be about to drop.

Oh, and I must say, I guess I was wrong about Tweety. He was pretty rough on Thompson the other night.

Speaking of Tweety, heard a guy from Media Matters (Brock) this morning talking about pundits getting “man crushes” on Republican candidates, saying stuff like Mitt Romney has shoulders you could land a 757 on and what great hair he has. I dunno, made me snigger.

There has been something that has been itching my brain about the statements of Thompson, Toesuck and the like about this conviction.

They keep calling it a miscarriage of justice. And point fingers at the DOJ (& occasionally the CIA). But! It was a Republican run DOJ which launched the investigation. Congress and the WH were controlled by rethugs when Fitz was appointed. Etc.

It occurs to me that they know that the public is aware–due to the Gonzales fiasco–that the DOJ is under a cloud of corruption, and that they are trying to lump Scooter’s “misfortune” into that scandal, hoping that ordinary people will by it.

Though how they think they can blame that on Dems is beyond me…but you gotta give them an “A” for effort.

Mandrake @ 21, what a game Libby is playing. His supporters do not care one whit that he is guilty but the next move is the appeal and it matters there. The last move will be the pardon where once again guilt is not a factor and Libby, Darth, and you-know-who sail off in the sunset. True justice would find them frogmarched to The Hague.

Quebecois @ 38

OT:

Probably missed it, but, I’d like to know if a link to ALL the Libby letters is available somewhere???

Here they are in alphabetical order by sender.

http://wid.ap.org/documents/li…..etters.pdf

GeorgeSimian @ 40

Bush is a scumbag. He will pardon him, say he was a loyal employee and that it was sensitive and then refuse to comment. He’ll say something like, “there’s a lot of talk about it, but I’m not going to comment. I did what I did, and was in my power to do.”

It will be another fuk you to Congress and America. And he’ll keep doing it until someone stops him.

I have a sick feeling in my gut that Libby will be pardoned too. Bush’s first pardon in his whole pathetic career. I don’t put an ounce of faith in whatever he’s blabbing now because everything out of his mouth is a lie.

Well, right now the most important thing happening is an 18 year-old missing in Kansas on MSNBC.

GeorgeSimian @ 40

Bush is a scumbag. He will pardon him, say he was a loyal employee and that it was sensitive and then refuse to comment. He’ll say something like, “there’s a lot of talk about it, but I’m not going to comment. I did what I did, and was in my power to do.”

It will be another fuk you to Congress and America. And he’ll keep doing it until someone stops him.

“He served his country well. He hepped me fight the war on terrrr by exposin’ a, uh, uh cuvvert WMD uh, uhm, mmm especialtist, placin’ her life and the lives of her fellah operaters in uh, uh purl. That’s real patriotism.”

Bush’s first pardon in his whole pathetic career.

I think this is incorrect. I believe Bush has in fact done quite a few pardons since he became President. I don’t believe he’s ever pardoned anyone before the appeals process has run its course, and I think that’s what his press spokesman was referring to. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

as the dust settles: found my way to FDL via the Plame case way back in 2005, so this outcome represents a real, long-awaited milestone. of course, it’s not as satisfying as actual prosecution of the leaker would have been, but within the narrow scope of actual crimes charged this is a win. big thank you to Jane, Christy, Marcy et al.

do-si-do @ 24

Good Lard! This is puke-inducing repeat the talking points ad nauseum spew.

silver lining?: perhaps law and order republicans will see thru the Law&Order actor with this crap. They really cling to their bubble, don’t they?

But you have to admit he learns his lines well.

Off topic, but I just donated to Gilly’s funeral fund. There’s a paypal link on his blog. It made me feel really good to contribute and also as a legacy to Gilly, for his family to know how much he was loved.

If you donate you’ll feel about 10 feet tall. Guaranteed. :)

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems in keeping with W’s approach that he’d be happy to let Scooter rot for at least a while because he’s angry he got caught.

Sally @ 46

Mandrake @ 21, what a game Libby is playing. His supporters do not care one whit that he is guilty but the next move is the appeal and it matters there. The last move will be the pardon where once again guilt is not a factor and Libby, Darth, and you-know-who sail off in the sunset. True justice would find them frogmarched to The Hague.

I’m envisioning bunkers in Paraguay. After all, how else will the royalty and their progeny survive the ensuing collapse of the nation from eternal war, globalization, and economic devastation?

TiredFed @ 35

If not, then that may help explain why Armitage helped betray Valerie Plame’s identity.

You know, I used to go back and forth on Armitage, but these days I tend to think that he was up to his eyeballs in all of this. The Woodward tape makes it pretty clear that his betrayal of Plame was not an accidental slip. He really beat Woodward over the head with it. I just can’t tell if he was used or if he was a true co-conspirator. I tend to believe he was used. I think someone made sure he knew that Plame worked at the CIA and carefully “forgot” to mention what her role was. They counted on Armitage to blab the info to everyone, and then they sent Novak his way. Armitage has certainly been acting like someone who was set up. But if that’s the case, it couldn’t have been Libby who did it. Fitz would have called him as a witness if it had gone that way. I still can’t believe that Armitage found out about Plame through an official document, because if he had, he should have considered the possibility that she was covert. I think someone told him Plame was a flunky at the CIA, and he didn’t bother to check her status. So who told Armitage?

Mark B. in Austin TX @ 51

Bush’s first pardon in his whole pathetic career.

I think this is incorrect. I believe Bush has in fact done quite a few pardons since he became President. I don’t believe he’s ever pardoned anyone before the appeals process has run its course, and I think that’s what his press spokesman was referring to. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

President Bush Pardons 14 People

WASHINGTON, Sept. 28, 2005

P J Evans @ 43

OT:
If Alfred K is around, getting second opinion: upcoming sh*t here in SoCal. Survival gear and trade goods buying. Time frame not established, but I’d be surprised if it was longer than weeks.

I think our long-hanging shoe may be about to drop.

What are you referring to???

Beth @ 53

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems in keeping with W’s approach that he’d be happy to let Scooter rot for at least a while because he’s angry he got caught.

Doesn’t fit his compassionate conservative
image?

Look, Fred Thompson was speaking to Hannity as Manhattan DA Arthur Branch, the guy he plays unconvincingly in “Law & Order.”

It’s not the first time a bad actor is thinking about taking his role into the Oval Office.

I stand corrected on the pardon. But not the rest of the sentence. *g*.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 33

Folks, lets leave Scooter’s kids out of this. They didn’t ask for this, and as a parent, I’d prefer that children get left out of the melee altogether. Thanks.

I absolutely agree their kids and Harriet Grant didn’t ask for this, but nearly every single pro-Scooter letter mentions his kids and what a great Dad he is – and I absolutely believe that he is. (Except when he decided to lie to a grand jury and put his own future at risk.) It’s not like I’m mentioning the kids’ names.

The only point I would make about Scooter’s kids is that, since the letters asked for leniency on the basis that his kids need him badly at this point in their lives, it paints such a stark contrast to the millions of other kids whose non-famous, non-white collar fathers and mothers get sent to prison who don’t have high-powered officials writing letters begging for leniency. The kids of lowlife criminal thugs miss their parents just as much as the kids of wealthy inmates.

twolf1 @ 58

Mark B. in Austin TX @ 51

Bush’s first pardon in his whole pathetic career.

I think this is incorrect. I believe Bush has in fact done quite a few pardons since he became President. I don’t believe he’s ever pardoned anyone before the appeals process has run its course, and I think that’s what his press spokesman was referring to. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

President Bush Pardons 14 People

WASHINGTON, Sept. 28, 2005

IIRC, Froomkin (link at 5) said Bush has issued over 100 pardons (like maybe 113), which is apparently pretty few for six years.

MayDaze @ 64

twolf1 @ 58

President Bush Pardons 14 People

WASHINGTON, Sept. 28, 2005

IIRC, Froomkin (link at 5) said Bush has issued over 100 pardons (like maybe 113), which is apparently pretty few for six years.

List of people pardoned by George W. Bush

twolf1 @ 58

Mark B. in Austin TX @ 51

Bush’s first pardon in his whole pathetic career.

I think this is incorrect. I believe Bush has in fact done quite a few pardons since he became President. I don’t believe he’s ever pardoned anyone before the appeals process has run its course, and I think that’s what his press spokesman was referring to. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

President Bush Pardons 14 People

WASHINGTON, Sept. 28, 2005

Froomkin says that Bush has pardoned approx 113 or so over his presidency. He has stated multiple times and forums that the process is EXTREMELY important and needs to be followed. He has been quite emphatic about the process all the times when he’s been acosted over the two border patrol agents.

Not that that will stop him if and when he decides to pull an Emily Latella…

Beth @ 54

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems in keeping with W’s approach that he’d be happy to let Scooter rot for at least a while because he’s angry he got caught.

Either that, or he just doesn’t feel any personal loyalty to Scooter. The way he does to Abu Gonzales, for example. He owes his career to Abu Gonzales because Abu got him excused from jury duty way back when so he wouldn’t have to reveal the DUI. Scooter’s loyalty is to Cheney, and is Cheney loyal to anybody except Cheney?? Cheney’s a guy who doesn’t even feel bad he shot a guy in the face.

I’m really pissed at all of the misinformation about the Plame case and the Libby trial that I’ve been hearing. Blatant lies. Joe Scarborough (who has recently been doing the Imus spot in the morning) spewed a bunch of bull this morning. His co-host (who was attempting to correct the story) was just cut off. I don’t care if you are a conservative or not, but I do care if you use the airwaves to lie to the American people and continue to slander the reputation of true patriots like Joe and Valerie Wilson. It just makes me sick.

Mark B. in Austin TX @ 50

Bush’s first pardon in his whole pathetic career.

I think this is incorrect. I believe Bush has in fact done quite a few pardons since he became President. I don’t believe he’s ever pardoned anyone before the appeals process has run its course, and I think that’s what his press spokesman was referring to. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

I think he’s up to 13 or so, plus 3 commuteed sentences. and this is apparently a new low for Presidential pardons.

I’m still not buying the whole “Bush will pardon him” line. It may be true that “Bush values loyalty above all else”, as the talking point goes, but I certainly don’t think he rewards it. Katherine Harris is the most obvious example. She fixed the election for him, and he hung her out to dry. Instead, he and his brother focused their efforts on getting a gay man into the Florida governor’s mansion. Harriet Myers is another case. He put her up for the Supreme Court, but he blinked the minute it got tough with his base. I’d even put Alberto Gonzales on the list. Bush has said several times that he thought Gonzales would make a great Supreme Court justice. And then he passed up not one but two chances to nominate him. The only reason he still has his job as AG is because it’s far more dangerous for Bush to fire him than it is for him to keep him in the job.

Thanks, Marcy. I think you just explained why W can duck the whole pardon issue. Silberman will ram overturning Scooter’s conviction through the appeals court and presto, he’s in the clear. The Mighty Wurlitzer will crank up and prevent a new trial (”You’re persecuting poor Scooter!”) and that will be that. Any way that WON’T happen?

sparkles @163: Of course, I’m in agreement with Christy on this, but you raise a good point. And I wonder how much sympathy the “compassionate” letter writers would have had for the Wilson family had Plame been murdered as a result of being outed.

dalloway @ 71

Thanks, Marcy. I think you just explained why W can duck the whole pardon issue. Silberman will ram overturning Scooter’s conviction through the appeals court and presto, he’s in the clear. The Mighty Wurlitzer will crank up and prevent a new trial (”You’re persecuting poor Scooter!”) and that will be that. Any way that WON’T happen?

Yup.

I found in a couple letters (from part4.pdf) that Scooter is kind to the “messengers”. But I do not know how to extract text from PDF files so it is hard work to type it.
————
What made Scooter so admirable is that he was not only courteous and thoughtful in his dealings with his seniors at the firm, but was exactly the same way in dealing with secretaries, receptionists, messengers, et. al.

Dennis R. Suplee
(SCHNADER HARRISON SEGAL & LEWIS-Scooter’s Law Firm) p66
———————————-
He treated everyone with consideration and respect, whether you were an attorney, secretary or messenger. I believe Scooter’s ability to connect with people on every level is due to his high moral character, honesty and concern for his fellow citizens.

Diane Thompson-Secretary p 74
——————–

Frank Probst @ 70

I’m still not buying the whole “Bush will pardon him” line. It may be true that “Bush values loyalty above all else”, as the talking point goes, but I certainly don’t think he rewards it. Katherine Harris is the most obvious example. She fixed the election for him, and he hung her out to dry. Instead, he and his brother focused their efforts on getting a gay man into the Florida governor’s mansion. Harriet Myers is another case. He put her up for the Supreme Court, but he blinked the minute it got tough with his base. I’d even put Alberto Gonzales on the list. Bush has said several times that he thought Gonzales would make a great Supreme Court justice. And then he passed up not one but two chances to nominate him. The only reason he still has his job as AG is because it’s far more dangerous for Bush to fire him than it is for him to keep him in the job.

Right on the money. Bush “loyalty” only lasts as long as someone is useful.

Ok, this pro-Scoots letter is funny: “….he has been dedicated to his wife of 16 years, Harriet. On occasion we’d be together in a group, and he’d look at her and say “isn’t she beautiful.” We would all want to throw up…..”

TBogg had a great posting on Kristol’s statement today too. Worth the trip (I’d post the link but IE is crashing a lot when I switch sites today).

Sparkles the Iguana @ 62

Christy Hardin Smith @ 33

Folks, lets leave Scooter’s kids out of this. They didn’t ask for this, and as a parent, I’d prefer that children get left out of the melee altogether. Thanks.

I absolutely agree their kids and Harriet Grant didn’t ask for this, but nearly every single pro-Scooter letter mentions his kids and what a great Dad he is – and I absolutely believe that he is. (Except when he decided to lie to a grand jury and put his own future at risk.) It’s not like I’m mentioning the kids’ names.

The only point I would make about Scooter’s kids is that, since the letters asked for leniency on the basis that his kids need him badly at this point in their lives, it paints such a stark contrast to the millions of other kids whose non-famous, non-white collar fathers and mothers get sent to prison who don’t have high-powered officials writing letters begging for leniency. The kids of lowlife criminal thugs miss their parents just as much as the kids of wealthy inmates.

who perhaps need their parent more than Scooter’s might, given the fact that he worked 18 hour days. sorry, but no sympathy here. he brought this on himself and I refuse to feel sorry for him or his family (well, maybe the kids).

Congrats on the video, Marcy! It’s concise, clear, to the point and you look great on camera.

You FDL people really give me hope in the future of our beloved country. If I ever get the chance to meet you in person, I’ll be honored.

MayDaze @ 75

Frank Probst @ 70

I’m still not buying the whole “Bush will pardon him” line. It may be true that “Bush values loyalty above all else”, as the talking point goes, but I certainly don’t think he rewards it. Katherine Harris is the most obvious example. She fixed the election for him, and he hung her out to dry. Instead, he and his brother focused their efforts on getting a gay man into the Florida governor’s mansion. Harriet Myers is another case. He put her up for the Supreme Court, but he blinked the minute it got tough with his base. I’d even put Alberto Gonzales on the list. Bush has said several times that he thought Gonzales would make a great Supreme Court justice. And then he passed up not one but two chances to nominate him. The only reason he still has his job as AG is because it’s far more dangerous for Bush to fire him than it is for him to keep him in the job.

Right on the money. Bush “loyalty” only lasts as long as someone is useful.

I wonder if Fitz can ask Appeals Court judges with personal or professional ties to Scooter or any of his “Letter writers ” fellow members only golf club/secret societies ie skull and bones, klan, Federalist Society members (what ever groups he belongs to) to recuse themselves from the case to avoid appearences of bias. Given the close nature of beltway Republicans we could knock out a lot of Bushie judges that way. Plus if Scooter is denied Bail this legal move would keep him in jail by delaying his appeals hearing. If this goes to the Supreme Court then Fitz can raise a stink and ask Scalia to recuse himself sure he would lose but the political stink/media freenzy would help poison the Pardon option for Bush. Plus Fitz just might win because the longer this case stays in the media the more regular Americans learn about I bet the poll numbers will show they are NOT PLEASED despite the rights media blitz. This case could be the first major battle between Corporate Main Stream Media and the Blogs over framing an issue. Expect more lies from the right they can’t afford to lose big against us but even if we lose we are getting their nose bloody!

I’ve thought all along there’s no pardon here. Libby flat out LIED to Scott McClellen and probably Bush too about his involvement.

Sparkles the Iguana @ 67

Scooter’s loyalty is to Cheney, and is Cheney loyal to anybody except Cheney??

Silly Iguana, of course Cheney is loyal to Someone other than his own self. “In his house at R’lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming,” y’know.

I have read through many of the letters in favor of Libby and what I am struck by is the “surprise” on the part of the writers that Libby would be charged and convicted of lying and obstructing justice.

Libby was afterall for 4 years one of the most powerful officials in the most lawless, corrupt, and incompetent Administration in our history. What planet have these people been living on that they think Scooter could be such an important part of this criminal enterprise and yet not be touched by it?

There can be only two explanations. They are either stupid or disingenuous. Except for some special cases like Doug Feith, I opt for disingenuous. Libby is one of their own and they wanted to protect him because in doing so they protect their own privilege, entitlement, and above all else immunity from accountability.

Frank Probst @ 57

TiredFed @ 35

If not, then that may help explain why Armitage helped betray Valerie Plame’s identity.

You know, I used to go back and forth on Armitage, but these days I tend to think that he was up to his eyeballs in all of this. The Woodward tape makes it pretty clear that his betrayal of Plame was not an accidental slip. He really beat Woodward over the head with it. I just can’t tell if he was used or if he was a true co-conspirator. I tend to believe he was used. I think someone made sure he knew that Plame worked at the CIA and carefully “forgot” to mention what her role was. They counted on Armitage to blab the info to everyone, and then they sent Novak his way. Armitage has certainly been acting like someone who was set up. But if that’s the case, it couldn’t have been Libby who did it. Fitz would have called him as a witness if it had gone that way. I still can’t believe that Armitage found out about Plame through an official document, because if he had, he should have considered the possibility that she was covert. I think someone told him Plame was a flunky at the CIA, and he didn’t bother to check her status. So who told Armitage?

Who told Armitage? That has been my question from the start. Given Plame’s super-secret status, which was on a need-to-know basis, and given that he had no need to know, how did he find out? The question has always been the custodial chain of that information.

Sparkles the Iguana at 11:34 am.

Merci Beaucoup.

Thanks, I really appreciate.

dalloway @ 71

Thanks, Marcy. I think you just explained why W can duck the whole pardon issue. Silberman will ram overturning Scooter’s conviction through the appeals court and presto, he’s in the clear. The Mighty Wurlitzer will crank up and prevent a new trial (”You’re persecuting poor Scooter!”) and that will be that. Any way that WON’T happen?

Quite a few. For one thing, even a judge who is bat-shit crazy is going to be hesitant to put their reputation on the line here. For another, I can’t see any reason why Fitz would decline to prosecute this case again. He’s not known for giving up easily. The Mighty Wurlitzer may be running at full steam, but the vast majority of Americans polled seem to think that the court got it right. Reggie Walton went out of his way to make his decisions bulletproof. It’s going to be hard for anyone to reverse these convictions and not look guilty themselves. And there’s still a special prosecutor out there with any number of hole cards left to play. (Speaking of which, is “Sealed vs Sealed” still, well, sealed?)

Hugh @ 84

I have read through many of the letters in favor of Libby and what I am struck by is the “surprise” on the part of the writers that Libby would be charged and convicted of lying and obstructing justice.

Libby was afterall for 4 years one of the most powerful officials in the most lawless, corrupt, and incompetent Administration in our history. What planet have these people been living on that they think Scooter could be such an important part of this criminal enterprise and yet not be touched by it?

There can be only two explanations. They are either stupid or disingenuous. Except for some special cases like Doug Feith, I opt for disingenuous. Libby is one of their own and they wanted to protect him because in doing so they protect their own privilege, entitlement, and above all else immunity from accountability.

They are all so self-righteous that they believe it is okay to do something dishonest if it is the name of their interests. They never think they are wrong.

Cozumel @ 82

I’ve thought all along there’s no pardon here. Libby flat out LIED to Scott McClellen and probably Bush too about his involvement.

Maybe. But Libby was clearly running interference, probably for DC. So there is a danger for the WH if prison gets to him.

“If Scooter sings, Shooter swings.”

And maybe even W himself is implicated, tho that seems less likely.

Stock market down around 135 and dropping.

drbonzo @ 82

Sparkles the Iguana @ 67

Scooter’s loyalty is to Cheney, and is Cheney loyal to anybody except Cheney??

Silly Iguana, of course Cheney is loyal to Someone other than his own self. “In his house at R’lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming,” y’know.

You lost me….

He’s going to pardon Libby on the day he declares nuclear war on Russia. And he’ll slip Abramoff and all the Enron goons in too. It might even make the back page.

So much for loyalty, or decency, or courage. For President Bush, loyalty is apparently a one-way street; decency is something he’s for as long as he doesn’t have to take any risks in its behalf; and courage–well, that’s nowhere to be seen. Many of us used to respect President Bush. Can one respect him still?

This quote actually made me laugh. As Steve Gilliard used to point out frequently, Bush most certainly sees loyalty as “a one-way street”. If he pardons Libby, it’ll undoubtably be for no nobler reason than the usual arrogance, to show to the world at large that he can do whatever he damn well pleases, and to hell with the Law.

But there’s a very real chance he won’t pardon Libby, who’s of no further use to him. Bush honestly does not give a flying fuck about any of his minions. They’re there to be used and discarded. End of story.

Hugh @ 84

What planet have these people been living on that they think Scooter could be such an important part of this criminal enterprise and yet not be touched by it?

There can be only two explanations. They are either stupid or disingenuous.

Three explanations, actually. They could be stupid AND disingenuous.

LS @ 90

Stock market down around 135 and dropping.

Price of oil rising.

Some people are fighting so hard for Libby’s pardon and appeals because he is competent.

Yes, he got caught this time. But honestly, we all knew justice would have happened due to the breech of identity of a CIA officer.

And even then, we still didn’t find out who it was . Libby took the bullet. He is loyal. He is competent.

He is needed to continue his projects. If he wasn’t, then Fox and CNN and other pundit mouthpieces would have just shut up, and let him rot. No, they are engineering public sentiment in favor of Libby’s pardon, so that he can get back to doing what he does best.

FrankProbst@87–
Yeah, why has the other “Sealed v Sealed” shoe never dropped? Any ideas? Will it ever?

I sure hope you’re right about Silberman. But look at Bush v. Gore. The 5 Supremes didn’t seem to care much about their reputations when they handed down that spectacularly boneheaded decision.

I wrote this downstairs a few posts ago but it’s more appropriate now…this is important

the wingunts are already setting the stage for a libby pardon guys, bush is already indicating it’s going to happen just not yet

we need to start our own marketing campaign, every single democrat needs to start calling libby a traitor and they need to start getting indignant anyone suggests traitors be pardoned

we have to do something like;

“this depraved man kept us from finding out who breached our national security and the republicans actually want him pardoned?

what kind of idiot wants this CRIMINAL pardoened, a man who DELIBERATELY kept us from finding out how much damage was done to this nation”

we need to start that dialogue IMMEDIATELY

indignation, that’s exactly what we need and we need it fast otherwise libby is gonna walk

Bush will pardon Libby before he serves any time because:
1]A pardon prevents Libby from turning like the aspens;
2]A pardon signals to others tangled-up in Bush scandals that if they stay on the team they will be taken care of; and,
3]A pardon appeases the base.

Plus, at 28% there isn’t much downside risk. In fact, some of his base that has recently abandoned him might Broder bounce back and raise his approval numbers into the mid-30s.

cancer_cures @ 96

Some people are fighting so hard for Libby’s pardon and appeals because he is competent.

Yes, he got caught this time. But honestly, we all knew justice would have happened due to the breech of identity of a CIA officer.

And even then, we still didn’t find out who it was . Libby took the bullet. He is loyal. He is competent.

He is needed to continue his projects. If he wasn’t, then Fox and CNN and other pundit mouthpieces would have just shut up, and let him rot. No, they are engineering public sentiment in favor of Libby’s pardon, so that he can get back to doing what he does best.

Bush is dug in on this evidently. Haha

I saw Kristol on the Bill Maher show a few years ago, in a panel discussing Iraq. He was, with his trademark rictus, blatting on about how well things were going. One of the other panelists (sorry I forget his name), a black man from Chicago, looked askance at BK for awhile as he blathered unstoppably. Finally he interrupted with “You know, I’ve got a brother-in-law just like you. He’s in rehab.”

Shut him up, but not for long, unfortunately.

VERY scattered thoughts:
1. Oil goes up, market goes down. There’s a BIG ole hurricane out in the Arabian Sea….inbound to the Gulf.

2. Aspens….long ago another Aspen stepped down following the Mogadishu fiasco. Wasn’t Judy his bed-mate back then? “Aspens” pops up again in more modern times…and there’s Judy right in the middle of it. Oh well.

Ghostman

I’m sure someone here has beaten me to this, but I am in the middle of reading the letters and I LMAO at Vicki’s. She says something like “I don’t know Scooter, but I asked him to dinner once and he said no”

THE END.

PeterK @ 101

I saw Kristol on the Bill Maher show a few years ago, in a panel discussing Iraq. He was, with his trademark rictus, blatting on about how well things were going. One of the other panelists (sorry I forget his name), a black man from Chicago, looked askance at BK for awhile as he blathered unstoppably. Finally he interrupted with “You know, I’ve got a brother-in-law just like you. He’s in rehab.”

Shut him up, but not for long, unfortunately.

LOL
I wish I knew who that was. Great story!

I don’t understand how someone who obstructs the investigation into who committed a crime is not a party to that crime

this is one of the travesties of our legal system, this maggot prevented our government from finding out who committed treason against this nation

he did it willingly, he would do it again and he continues to do it with his refusal to cooperate

I think Fitzgerald is now obligated to go into the scooter camp and renew his investigation, this time with scooter full aware what WILL happen if he obstructs justice again

I think Fitz needs to charge scooter over and over again until scooter STOPS obstructing the investigation into the crimes against this country

once again, if scooter knowingly obstructs this investigation in my mind he is a party to the crime and needs to be charges in that fashion as well

and once again I repeat

Fitzgerald is remiss and derelict his obligation..he has ample evidence to prefer charges and though the administration MIGHT involve executive privilege, THEY MUST BE FORCED TO TAKE THAT POSITION

it must go on record that the people charged are forced to use executive priveledge in order to avoid jail

Bay State Librul @ 32

Lies from the WSJ,

“If he (Libby) goes to jail it will be, above all, for two reasons: He was energetically defending the Administration’s prewar intelligence at a time when most everyone else in the Administration — from Condi Rice to Colin Powell and Steven Hadley was running from it; and he refused to do a Harold Ickes and fail “to recall” when investigators came knocking.”

Don’t they mean do a Gonzo? Notice they go
back to Ickes… the WSJ editorial board is so full of shit.

Here’s hoping they all lose their fucking jobs to a Murdoch takeover (so sweet)…

Don’t you mean out and out lied?

Libby didn’t just fail to recall. He made shit up out of whole cloth.

IIRC re Armitage he had blown off Woodward for years, then rather suddenly he agrees to an interview with him in which he blabs about Plame. That is odd to say the least but, if anyone were going to feed information through him, he would be a natural choice because he has the reputation of being an inveterate gossip.

Re the pardon, I agree that for Bush loyalty is a one way street. He drops people who are no longer of use to him like a hot skillet. Along these lines, with him, it is pretty much out of sight out of mind. Libby is no longer part of the Administration. He was Cheney’s man anyway. So why should he Bush do anything for a guy who represents nothing but an embarrassment for him?

An eyewitness account of the sentencing from Huffpost, in which we learn that Fitz has a very big head. (I think he means literally, not figuratively.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..50926.html

Jason Leopold interviews Joe Wilson on camera

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/060407A.shtml

dalloway @ 96

FrankProbst@87–
Yeah, why has the other “Sealed v Sealed” shoe never dropped? Any ideas? Will it ever?

I sure hope you’re right about Silberman. But look at Bush v. Gore. The 5 Supremes didn’t seem to care much about their reputations when they handed down that spectacularly boneheaded decision.

funny. Sealed v. Sealed was in Walton’s court on Monday morning. hmmmm.

Here are more examples of “representative interactions” and “inspired leadership” by the Scooter. Also an actual Scooter quote: “they forget to give you the dress code memo”.
—————————
I met Scooter Libby my first day of work in the Vice President’s office. I remember this instance, as we were seated next to each other in a motorcade to a black tie dinner and my predessor had specifically instructed me to wear a suit (not a black tie outfit) to the event. Well, as soon as Scooter saw me, he said, “So, first day…they forget to give you the dress code memo,” but spoken in the most jovial way that I would grow to love over the next few years. He instantly made me feel comfortable, when I was anything but. This interaction, while brief, was representative of the respect, concern, and thoughtfulness that I witnessed Scooter demonstrated in his interactions with his colleagues and subordinates, at all levels, during the 4 years that we worked together.

His leadership inspired all employees to work hard and treat everyone with respect and dignity, despite the personal hardship and time away from one’s “real” family that comes with serving in the White House. He would always listen, no matter how busy he was, letting me bounce my future career ideas off him, everything from starting my own make-up line to becoming an actress on “Law and Order”, to working for Prince Charles.

Sarah Straka Wallerstein p 81

Helen @ 102

I’m sure someone here has beaten me to this, but I am in the middle of reading the letters and I LMAO at Vicki’s. She says something like “I don’t know Scooter, but I asked him to dinner once and he said no”

THE END.

Yeah, the Toensings’ letter was moronic. She and Joe asked Scoots and his wife to dinner in the middle of the trial, and she could tell from his eyes that he wanted to go, but because he’s such a good Dad he said no, we need to spend time with our kids now.

Um, yeah, you think??

Margot @ 104

PeterK @ 101

I saw Kristol on the Bill Maher show a few years ago, in a panel discussing Iraq. He was, with his trademark rictus, blatting on about how well things were going. One of the other panelists (sorry I forget his name), a black man from Chicago, looked askance at BK for awhile as he blathered unstoppably. Finally he interrupted with “You know, I’ve got a brother-in-law just like you. He’s in rehab.”

Shut him up, but not for long, unfortunately.

LOL
I wish I knew who that was. Great story!

I think it was on the show “Politcally Incorrect” (but I might be off about that). The Chicago guy was an inner city type, seemed to be BMs friend, and his name included an initial. Maybe that’ll help. Incidentally, Krisotl really looked like he WAS on something.

TiredFed @ 109

dalloway @ 96

FrankProbst@87–
Yeah, why has the other “Sealed v Sealed” shoe never dropped? Any ideas? Will it ever?

I sure hope you’re right about Silberman. But look at Bush v. Gore. The 5 Supremes didn’t seem to care much about their reputations when they handed down that spectacularly boneheaded decision.

funny. Sealed v. Sealed was in Walton’s court on Monday morning. hmmmm.

“sealed vs sealed” is fitz’s only hope of vindication as far as I am concerned

that MUST be a charge against the architect of this treason, it must

if it does not then I consider fitz remiss and incompetent

Margot @ 104

PeterK @ 101

I saw Kristol on the Bill Maher show a few years ago, in a panel discussing Iraq. He was, with his trademark rictus, blatting on about how well things were going. One of the other panelists (sorry I forget his name), a black man from Chicago, looked askance at BK for awhile as he blathered unstoppably. Finally he interrupted with “You know, I’ve got a brother-in-law just like you. He’s in rehab.”

Shut him up, but not for long, unfortunately.

LOL
I wish I knew who that was. Great story!

Sounds like Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune.

PeterK @ 111

Margot @ 104

LOL
I wish I knew who that was. Great story!

I think it was on the show “Politcally Incorrect” (but I might be off about that). The Chicago guy was an inner city type, seemed to be BMs friend, and his name included an initial. Maybe that’ll help. Incidentally, Krisotl really looked like he WAS on something.

R. Kelly?

MayDaze @ 114

Margot @ 104

LOL
I wish I knew who that was. Great story!

Sounds like Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune.

No, it wasn’t him. A more hip type. Damn! Wish I could remember the name, but I haven’t seen him since.

Frank Probst @ 57

TiredFed @ 35

If not, then that may help explain why Armitage helped betray Valerie Plame’s identity.

You know, I used to go back and forth on Armitage, but these days I tend to think that he was up to his eyeballs in all of this. The Woodward tape makes it pretty clear that his betrayal of Plame was not an accidental slip. He really beat Woodward over the head with it. I just can’t tell if he was used or if he was a true co-conspirator. I tend to believe he was used. I think someone made sure he knew that Plame worked at the CIA and carefully “forgot” to mention what her role was. They counted on Armitage to blab the info to everyone, and then they sent Novak his way. Armitage has certainly been acting like someone who was set up. But if that’s the case, it couldn’t have been Libby who did it. Fitz would have called him as a witness if it had gone that way. I still can’t believe that Armitage found out about Plame through an official document, because if he had, he should have considered the possibility that she was covert. I think someone told him Plame was a flunky at the CIA, and he didn’t bother to check her status. So who told Armitage?

Armitage also was a cosignee of the PNAC doc, like Libby. Them aspens turn together.

I think it’s more a case of factions amongst them and Libby and Cheney being part of a different faction than Armitage.

They’re all try to grab the brass ring while still still being aware that if they lose someone will be holding the bag. It’s like a game of chicken.

Cheney never thinks about losing.

old gold @ 99

Bush will pardon Libby before he serves any time because:
1]A pardon prevents Libby from turning like the aspens;
2]A pardon signals to others tangled-up in Bush scandals that if they stay on the team they will be taken care of; and,
3]A pardon appeases the base.

Plus, at 28% there isn’t much downside risk. In fact, some of his base that has recently abandoned him might Broder bounce back and raise his approval numbers into the mid-30s.

With respect to your first point, Scooter, if pardoned, – and let us keep in mind that he would have to admit guilt as a condition of accepting the pardon (see Burdick v. United States, a United States Supreme Court decision from 1915 for an explanation) – would not be able to invoke the Fifth Amendment if he were compelled to testify, as has been mentioned in comments in various FDL threads.

MayDaze @ 113

Margot @ 104

LOL
I wish I knew who that was. Great story!

Sounds like Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune.

Hard to imagine Clarence Page saying anything that “on the money.”

Where is the pushback on convicted felon Libby? Is anyone sticking up for Pat Fitzgerald’s prosecution? Are there any pundits (ha-ha!) or Democrats making an issue of this upcoming pardon?

Because the only time to oppose a pardon is when it matters — beforehand. Afterwards is just bluster.

This sealed vs sealed thing really itches at my curiosity. I hope it was not something that got was negotiated to be dropped based on Scooter’s conviction.

dakine01 @ 13

Froomkin has Jane’s analysis of Libby’s courtroom statement and a link to FDL in his column today…

Cheez whiz, I missed that on the first read! I must have been thinking, of course he quotes FDL; doesn’t everyone? Geez, what was I thinking???

Bob in HI

Libby should have been the one thinking about how the consequences of his acts would impact his family and friends. The least he can do now for them is show some moral fiber by accepting the punishment meted out fairly by judge and jury.

Didn’t egregious watch to see who was going in and out of the Sealed vs. Sealed courtroom and it was nobody recognizable? I think we are fantasizing to think it has anything to do with Plame.

as far as the pardon of libby;

this administration has passed the point of no return where they care one iota how their decisions affect public opinion or the republicans chances for re election

to wit;

abu torture has not been forced to resign, it seems now the more inept he demonstrates, the more lies he tells, the more damage he’s shown to have caused the more the president chucles and says “he’s done nothing wrong and has my complete confidence”

they laugh at the impotence of congress, the neo cons give them just enough votes to avoid any oversite

they will not succeed even impeaching abu torture, they cannot even get a war funding bill passed the way they want to pass it even though over three quaters of the country wanted them to get it done

the administration has passed that point where anything matters, they will do whatever the hell they want to do and to hell with public opinion or the future of their party

Re oil, the world markets bounced up today because of cyclone Gonu in the Arabian Sea.

You can see what it looks like currently here.

http://www.goes.noaa.gov/FULLDISK/GIIR.JPG

I don’t have a way to lock in the specific image so this will change over time.

Anyway Gonu has lost most of its strength. There has been some flooding in Oman but there is little danger of damage to oil facilities or to disruption to the flow of oil.

So the take home message is that today’s price increase is not likely to be longlasting. Oil markets love this kind of what if but it seldom makes much difference to prices long term.

Check out the video of the Giuliani thug arresting the reporter:

http://infowars.com/articles/p…..ss_sec.htm

punaise @ 52

as the dust settles: found my way to FDL via the Plame case way back in 2005, so this outcome represents a real, long-awaited milestone. of course, it’s not as satisfying as actual prosecution of the leaker would have been, but within the narrow scope of actual crimes charged this is a win. big thank you to Jane, Christy, Marcy et al.

Same here, Punaise!

Sparkles the Iguana @ 119

MayDaze @ 113

Sounds like Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune.

Hard to imagine Clarence Page saying

anything that “on the money.”

Right, as I mentioned, it wasn’t him. Just checked, and the show must have been “Real Time”, since PI was pulled in 2002 before the war started.

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 117

old gold @ 99

Bush will pardon Libby before he serves any time because:
1]A pardon prevents Libby from turning like the aspens;
2]A pardon signals to others tangled-up in Bush scandals that if they stay on the team they will be taken care of; and,
3]A pardon appeases the base.

Plus, at 28% there isn’t much downside risk. In fact, some of his base that has recently abandoned him might Broder bounce back and raise his approval numbers into the mid-30s.

With respect to your first point, Scooter, if pardoned, – and let us keep in mind that he would have to admit guilt as a condition of accepting the pardon (see Burdick v. United States, a United States Supreme Court decision from 1915 for an explanation) – would not be able to invoke the Fifth Amendment if he were compelled to testify, as has been mentioned in comments in various FDL threads.

screw it. just give him use immunity now. he could be tried for treason at some point. just cuz he was only tried for obstruction and perjury does not mean he can’t later be charged with violations of the Espionage Act. And betraying the identity of a CIA agent who was investigating WMDs during wartime (we’ve been at war ever since Bush attacked Iraq) is treason in my book (aid and comfort). dont you think he might want to avoid hanging?

Aside from the neocons and the Republican Party the only other group that is pushing Libby’s pardon is the MSM. These shills and stenographers of this administration are as guilty and complicit as the Administration. Thankfully we have FDL, BBC, the Guardian and the internet as sources of accurate information.

Great to see non-conscripted(pun intended) journalists!

Keep them wheels a’movn’!

let me say something else which I’m sure is on everyone’s mind but let’s bring it a little closer to home;

the administration is too smug with what they are doing, abu torture too smug, cheney too smug, the president doing everything and anything he wants

they are all so smug

remember I said the president was too smug when running against cheney?

the fix was in then, it’s in now too

I think the president has passed recent bills that give him uncanny power in time of national emergency, which he can declare

congress will be able to do nothing about it, when it’s time for this adminsitration to step down I think they believe they don’t have to

what is to stop them?

congress?

errr…that would be a no

the senate?

errr…no

the supreme court?

hardly

what is to stop them from declaring marshal law and remaining on office

what

It’s time to yet again remind folks that changing screen names may lead to being banned from this site.

Thanks.

perris @ 12:11 pm -

I think Fitz needs to charge scooter over and over again until scooter STOPS obstructing the investigation into the crimes against this country

Let’s look at the Fifth Amendment (my emphasis):

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

slightly OT, but for anyone out there who may be losing hope for the future, take a look at this comment from yesterday:

Alana says:
June 5th, 2007 at 6:45 am
I am a student at Univ. of Colorado, I am 19 years old and my mother has convinced me to ask the question I have been asking her for quite some time about this trial.
Can anyone explain to me why there are people across our nation who get sentenced to years in prison for far less serious crimes than Scooter Libby or the others who outed Valerie Plame will get. I am trying to understand our justice system.
Do I need to just accept that our justice system is unfair and seriously flawed? Is this what most people have accepted in our country?

Wow. and only 19 years old!

punaise @ 52

as the dust settles: found my way to FDL via the Plame case way back in 2005, so this outcome represents a real, long-awaited milestone. of course, it’s not as satisfying as actual prosecution of the leaker would have been, but within the narrow scope of actual crimes charged this is a win. big thank you to Jane, Christy, Marcy et al.

Seconded and btw that’s how I found FDL too.

RBG @ 135

nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;

this doesn’t hold, each time scooter lies or obstructs the investigation it is a new crime

I don’t mean fitz should charge him again without new questions I mean he needs to broach the subject time and again and each time justice is obstructed a new charge preferred

TeddySanFran @ 120

Where is the pushback on convicted felon Libby? Is anyone sticking up for Pat Fitzgerald’s prosecution? Are there any pundits (ha-ha!) or Democrats making an issue of this upcoming pardon?

Because the only time to oppose a pardon is when it matters — beforehand. Afterwards is just bluster.

You are right. I haven’t heard anyone on the mainstream media voice why Libby’s sentencing is right. In fact, I haven’t heard of anyone saying Libby’s sentence should be LONGER.

If the table was turned, and it was a democrat, I know I’d be hearing the Far Right cry for execution on grounds of Treason. Remember, this happened to the Rosenburgs. That’s what happens to traitors in this country. Now obviously we cannot do this to Libby, as it has not been revealed that he is the true traitor. But he knows who it is, and that is a conspiracy. So maybe he should be thrown under the bus as well.

Bay State Librul @ 42

GeorgeSimian @ 39

Bush is a scumbag. He will pardon him, say he was a loyal employee and that it was sensitive and then refuse to comment. He’ll say something like, “there’s a lot of talk about it, but I’m not going to comment. I did what I did, and was in my power to do.”

It will be another fuk you to Congress and America. And he’ll keep doing it until someone stops him.

Absolutely. That’s why we need to impeach his arse… stop playing nice with a bully…

Al Gore noted as far back as January 2006 that Bush seems to be daring us to do exactly that. And laughing up his sleeve at the same time about what weenies Democrats are.

Bob in HI

Heh – one letter writer attaches 7 pages of his own articles of impeachment and cc’s the entire Congress and the media.

Maybe it’s best to remember the traitors of the past. The Rosenburgs were executed for treason. I hope this is a backthought in Libby’s mind…

LS @ 59

It was late-late nite Sat and talking-heads on Sun. Premonitions.

The long-hanging shoe is WRT our major transform fault, which has been locked between Cajon Pass and Parkfield for decades, maybe all the way back to the late 19th century: nothing over 2.0 for the last umpteen years (and d*mned few of those). This week, two 3 (3.7, 3.5) in the same area, middle of the locked section, in a 24-hour period. (This is not a good sign. Something’s breaking loose.)

with a 30-month sentence, Libby would probably end up doing 17 or so months… remember, what they give you is not what you get… so Libby ought to just be thankful and accept this… perhaps it’s that monetary fine he’s objecting to?

perris @ 139

RBG @ 135

nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;

this doesn’t hold, each time scooter lies or obstructs the investigation it is a new crime

I don’t mean fitz should charge him again without new questions I mean he needs to broach the subject time and again and each time justice is obstructed a new charge preferred

Giving credit where credit is due, I think you meant to link to Mr. Parrish.

Mark B. in Austin TX @ 51

Bush’s first pardon in his whole pathetic career.

I think this is incorrect. I believe Bush has in fact done quite a few pardons since he became President. . . .

You are correct. Bush has pardoned about 100 people, but
* they’re mostly nobodies
* he’s pardoned fewer than most presidents

I don’t think he’ll pardon until after court review is finished, hoping that he won’t have to pardon.

Bob in HI

Apologies if this has been brought up, but I believe Cheney’s post-sentencing comment delivers a loud-and-clear message to those who will be involved in the appeals process: Overturn the verdicts.
The defense has indicated it plans to appeal the conviction in the case. Speaking as friends, (Lynne and I) hope that our system will return a final result consistent with what we know of this fine man.

RBG @ 146

perris @ 139

this doesn’t hold, each time scooter lies or obstructs the investigation it is a new crime

I don’t mean fitz should charge him again without new questions I mean he needs to broach the subject time and again and each time justice is obstructed a new charge preferred

Giving credit where credit is due, I think you meant to link to Mr. Parrish.

indeed I did, thanx for teh help

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 134

perris @ 12:11 pm -

I think Fitz needs to charge scooter over and over again until scooter STOPS obstructing the investigation into the crimes against this country

Let’s look at the Fifth Amendment (my emphasis):

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

new lies – new charges. get him in front of another GJ. go over his “faulty” memory defense again. do it again and again. doesnt violate double jeopardy prohibition. better yet, get him in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee, preliminary to an impeachment proceeding of the VP and/or POTUS.

Sparkles the Iguana @ 119

MayDaze @ 113

Sounds like Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune.

Hard to imagine Clarence Page saying anything that “on the money.”

Found him, it was D. L. Hughley. OK, he’s from LA, not Chicago–but from here (Maine) they don’t look so different!

John Casper @ 137

Seconded and btw that’s how I found FDL too.

remember when a fifty comment thread was noteworthy?

Jenny from the Blog @ 54

Off topic, but I just donated to Gilly’s funeral fund. There’s a paypal link on his blog. It made me feel really good to contribute and also as a legacy to Gilly, for his family to know how much he was loved.

If you donate you’ll feel about 10 feet tall. Guaranteed. :)

I just need to know, now that Gilliard has departed this mortal plane, what are the next best blogs where minority voices can be heard?
I know its never obvious in the blogosphere what ones racial or ethnic heritage is, but I want to make sure that my ears are hearing what they have to say.

Bob in HI

PeterK @ 150

Found him, it was D. L. Hughley. OK, he’s from LA, not Chicago–but from here (Maine) they don’t look so different!

you refer to the cities, I trust!

Pete Bogs @ 143

with a 30-month sentence, Libby would probably end up doing 17 or so months… remember, what they give you is not what you get… so Libby ought to just be thankful and accept this… perhaps it’s that monetary fine he’s objecting to?

apparently, he gets only 54 days per year time off for good behavior, so he would have to serve a full 2 years plus.

Mods, what happened to the “refresh comments” button?

I’ve done several hard refreshes and still no button…

TiredFed @ 12:24 pm -

Let’s start by looking at Article III, Section 3 of the Constitution (my emphasis):

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

I think you may have already read John Marshall’s comments about what constitutes treason in his opinion rendered in 1807 in Ex parte Bollman, since I think I mentioned that case in a comment on a thread posted weeks ago. Now let us look at 18 USC 2381:

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

If it isn’t treason as John Marshall defined it in his 1807 opinion, what is it? What comes to mind when you think of sedition?

maybe Scooter can serve his time in dog years.

P J Evans @ 143

LS @ 59

It was late-late nite Sat and talking-heads on Sun. Premonitions.

The long-hanging shoe is WRT our major transform fault, which has been locked between Cajon Pass and Parkfield for decades, maybe all the way back to the late 19th century: nothing over 2.0 for the last umpteen years (and d*mned few of those). This week, two 3 (3.7, 3.5) in the same area, middle of the locked section, in a 24-hour period. (This is not a good sign. Something’s breaking loose.)

Oh, like there’s nothing else to worry about? OMG. Thanks PJ, no really. I’m going down to Big Lots right now to get a bunch of water and then over to CVS to get some fuel for my camp stove. 99 cents store for canned stuff. Oh, man and I thought the wind last night was bugging me.
Not to mention…without power, how will we visit our lake? Now I’m going to start whining.
Again, thanks for the heads up.

punaise @ 152

John Casper @ 137

Seconded and btw that’s how I found FDL too.

remember when a fifty comment thread was noteworthy?

A bunch of grey beards around here.

TiredFed @ 110

dalloway @ 96

FrankProbst@87–
Yeah, why has the other “Sealed v Sealed” shoe never dropped? Any ideas? Will it ever?

funny. Sealed v. Sealed was in Walton’s court on Monday morning. hmmmm.

Do tell!

Hugh @ 84

I have read through many of the letters in favor of Libby and what I am struck by is the “surprise” on the part of the writers that Libby would be charged and convicted of lying and obstructing justice.

Libby was afterall for 4 years one of the most powerful officials in the most lawless, corrupt, and incompetent Administration in our history. What planet have these people been living on that they think Scooter could be such an important part of this criminal enterprise and yet not be touched by it?

There can be only two explanations. They are either stupid or disingenuous. Except for some special cases like Doug Feith, I opt for disingenuous. Libby is one of their own and they wanted to protect him because in doing so they protect their own privilege, entitlement, and above all else immunity from accountability.

Bullseye as per usual. From the perspective of national security, Scooter Irving and Shooter are total disasters. Instead of paying attention to the fundamentals of national security, Irving and Shooter spent all their time combing intelligence for details they could feed to the press to manage the “perception” of national security based solely on what Shooter wanted it to be. It reminds me of Hoover ignoring organized crime, because it was so much easier to build his reputation on guys such as Dillinger.

punaise @ 153

PeterK @ 150

Found him, it was D. L. Hughley. OK, he’s from LA, not Chicago–but from here (Maine) they don’t look so different!

you refer to the cities, I trust!

Right.

And by the way,
I really do not miss hell-o-scan.

Another letter writer: “…he’d look at her [Harriet] and say ‘isn’t she beautiful.’ We’d all want to throw up….”

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Sparkles the Iguana @ 112

Helen @ 102

I’m sure someone here has beaten me to this, but I am in the middle of reading the letters and I LMAO at Vicki’s. She says something like “I don’t know Scooter, but I asked him to dinner once and he said no”

THE END.

Yeah, the Toensings’ letter was moronic. She and Joe asked Scoots and his wife to dinner in the middle of the trial, and she could tell from his eyes that he wanted to go, but because he’s such a good Dad he said no, we need to spend time with our kids now.

Um, yeah, you think??

The “his eyes said yes but his voice said no” interpretation reminded me of the sort of thing a stalker says.

I am also reminded that Ted Bundy used to babysit the children of the author who wrote the book on him. I heard her in an interview and she said that she would trust the “Babysitter Ted” with her children’s lives any day of the week and keep her her kids totally away from the “Serial Killer Ted”. The trouble, she said, was that he could completely compartmentalize these aspects of his personality and you would never be able to tell which “Ted” you were dealing with.

She felt serial killers were so damaged they could never be rehabilitated IIRC.

Hopefully things are not so bleak for Libby, who was able to present such an angelic personality to some people that they cannot comprehend that he was actually found guilty of his crimes.

The fact that he was able to fool so many people I find more than a little disturbing. It’s either that or these people are utterly contemptuous of the rule of law.

Oh. I see where I made a mistake.

TiredFed @ 150

new lies – new charges. get him in front of another GJ. go over his “faulty” memory defense again. do it again and again. doesnt violate double jeopardy prohibition. better yet, get him in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee, preliminary to an impeachment proceeding of the VP and/or POTUS.

absolutely

congress needs to re authorise the investigation and whoever is prosecutor must again interview this maggot who thinks his loyalty to traitors is more important then our national security

P J Evans @ 143

LS @ 59

It was late-late nite Sat and talking-heads on Sun. Premonitions.

The long-hanging shoe is WRT our major transform fault, which has been locked between Cajon Pass and Parkfield for decades, maybe all the way back to the late 19th century: nothing over 2.0 for the last umpteen years (and d*mned few of those). This week, two 3 (3.7, 3.5) in the same area, middle of the locked section, in a 24-hour period. (This is not a good sign. Something’s breaking loose.)

Wow, that is interesting. I know Alfred was really feeling spooked the other night. It is interesting to go on the earthquake site to see what’s happening around the world – you really get a sense that mother nature is always forming and reforming. I certainly hope this shift is just that and nothing more.

OT. Senator Cornyn’s amendment to the Immigration Bill failed. It would have made it much more difficult for immigrants to earn legal status. I’m against anything Cornyn is for.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06…..8FFpwxZtIg

Brisingamen @ 156

Mods, what happened to the “refresh comments” button?

I’ve done several hard refreshes and still no button…

Sometimes I have to clear my cache and or restart my browser and it clears up this problem. hth

perris @ 12:28 pm and TiredFed @ 12:36 pm -

You’re right: double jeopardy will not apply to separate charges.

Bustednuckles @ 163

And by the way,
I really do not miss hell-o-scan.

“you’ve come a long way, baby”

peter @113: Kristol has the look of someone who had never been in the same room with an African-American in his entire life, up until that moment.

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 156

TiredFed @ 12:24 pm -

If it isn’t treason as John Marshall defined it in his 1807 opinion, what is it? What comes to mind when you think of sedition?

The sovereignty of the people.

Tom in AZ @ 129

punaise @ 52

as the dust settles: found my way to FDL via the Plame case way back in 2005, so this outcome represents a real, long-awaited milestone. of course, it’s not as satisfying as actual prosecution of the leaker would have been, but within the narrow scope of actual crimes charged this is a win. big thank you to Jane, Christy, Marcy et al.

Same here, Punaise!

God, has it been two years already?

dalloway @ 71

Thanks, Marcy. I think you just explained why W can duck the whole pardon issue. Silberman will ram overturning Scooter’s conviction through the appeals court and presto, he’s in the clear. The Mighty Wurlitzer will crank up and prevent a new trial (”You’re persecuting poor Scooter!”) and that will be that. Any way that WON’T happen?

I think you’ve got it wrong. Defense must appeal on specific grounds, and IIRC the grounds for appeal are that (a) Walton didn’t allow the memory defense, and (b) somethin was wrong with Fitzgerald’s appointment as special counsel. *IF* the appeals court finds in favor of the defense, I think what happens is they send it back down for retrial. It will NOT mean that they say Libby isn’t guilty.

Bob in HI

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 171

perris @ 12:28 pm and TiredFed @ 12:36 pm -

You’re right: double jeopardy will not apply to separate charges.

hehe…me manages to correct mr. parrish…certainly beer thirty for me

c all L8ter

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 155

TiredFed @ 12:24 pm -

Let’s start by looking at Article III, Section 3 of the Constitution (my emphasis):

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

I think you may have already read John Marshall’s comments about what constitutes treason in his opinion rendered in 1807 in Ex parte Bollman, since I think I mentioned that case in a comment on a thread posted weeks ago. Now let us look at 18 USC 2381:

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

If it isn’t treason as John Marshall defined it in his 1807 opinion, what is it? What comes to mind when you think of sedition?

I do recall you pointing me to this decission. Will have to refresh my memory, but my vague recollection is that decision involved the lack of concrete action against the United States. my sense is that “aid and comfort” means something different, like the Rosenberg case. In the Cheney/Libby(/Bush) conspiracy, betraying the name of a CIA agent constitutes aid and comfort. Someone convicted under the Espionage Act for such an act should also be subject to Congressional action for treason (JMO; IANAL).

I just came across Dennis Ross’ Scooter letter. I was sure there had to be one because he is on the Advisory Board of Scooter’s legal defense fund. Ross was, of course, Clinton’s A*P*C connected Middle East negotiator. He describes himself as “someone who fears the criminalization of policy differences.” And that statement relates to Libby’s conviction exactly how, Dennis?

punaise @ 156

maybe Scooter can serve his time in dog years.

lol (in dog laughs)

Mandrake @ 172

peter @113: Kristol has the look of someone who had never been in the same room with an African-American in his entire life, up until that moment.

I guess. But doesn’t he always look like that? Washed-out and hyper. At any rate, he really did stop talking for a few minutes after Hughley said that. But then restarted (kind of like the PC guy in one of those Apple ads).

punaise @ 152

John Casper @ 137

Seconded and btw that’s how I found FDL too.

remember when a fifty comment thread was noteworthy?

Yeah, I could actually get some work done then.

Bob Schacht @ 175

dalloway @ 71

Thanks, Marcy. I think you just explained why W can duck the whole pardon issue. Silberman will ram overturning Scooter’s conviction through the appeals court and presto, he’s in the clear. The Mighty Wurlitzer will crank up and prevent a new trial (”You’re persecuting poor Scooter!”) and that will be that. Any way that WON’T happen?

I think you’ve got it wrong. Defense must appeal on specific grounds, and IIRC the grounds for appeal

[snip]

Bob in HI

Sorry–what is IIRC?

these people are utterly contemptuous of the rule of law.

Ding! Only when it pertains to them. Remember they are searching for the terrorists day in and day out, the terrorists are the evil people. I might feel a little sorry for Scooter. NOT!

Quebecois @ 86

Sparkles the Iguana at 11:34 am.

Merci Beaucoup.

Thanks, I really appreciate.

Made me think of another FDL tribute:

Marcy Beaucoup!

Works for me :-)

Bob in HI

neokneme @ 159

TiredFed @ 110

funny. Sealed v. Sealed was in Walton’s court on Monday morning. hmmmm.

Do tell!

it was posted outside the court. they left the June 4th calendar up since it was kinda early still on the 5th when I got there (a little before 9). maybe they changed it after we went in. sorry, that’s all I know. did you see the story mentioned at 107 above? there’s a photo of the calendar posted outside Walton’s courtroom.

Tom in AZ @ 180

punaise @ 152

remember when a fifty comment thread was noteworthy?

Yeah, I could actually get some work done then.

You want to get work done, you better get off FDL! It’s way too addictive.

IIRC if I recall correctly

PeterK @ 182

Sorry–what is IIRC?

If I Recall Correctly.

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 118

old gold @ 99

Bush will pardon Libby before he serves any time because:
1]A pardon prevents Libby from turning like the aspens;
2]A pardon signals to others tangled-up in Bush scandals that if they stay on the team they will be taken care of; and,
3]A pardon appeases the base.

Plus, at 28% there isn’t much downside risk. In fact, some of his base that has recently abandoned him might Broder bounce back and raise his approval numbers into the mid-30s.

With respect to your first point, Scooter, if pardoned, – and let us keep in mind that he would have to admit guilt as a condition of accepting the pardon (see Burdick v. United States, a United States Supreme Court decision from 1915 for an explanation) – would not be able to invoke the Fifth Amendment if he were compelled to testify, as has been mentioned in comments in various FDL threads.

First, Burdick isn’t applicable. Libby was charged and convicted, unlike Burdick.
Second, Libby could avoid future perjury and obstruction charges by simply stating he doesn’t remember.

That being said, I hope that I am wrong and that Libby is incarcerated.

If I Recall Correctly

perris @ 177

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 171

perris @ 12:28 pm and TiredFed @ 12:36 pm -

You’re right: double jeopardy will not apply to separate charges.

hehe…me manages to correct mr. parrish…certainly beer thirty for me

c all L8ter

You weren’t correcting me; I already knew about that provision contained within the Fifth Amendment.

Two fingered typing has it’s limitations for speed.

Bustednuckles @ 189

If I Recall Correctly

No lack of firepups who remember that one!

PeterK @ 89

Cozumel @ 82

I’ve thought all along there’s no pardon here. Libby flat out LIED to Scott McClellen and probably Bush too about his involvement.

Maybe. But Libby was clearly running interference, probably for DC. So there is a danger for the WH if prison gets to him.

“If Scooter sings, Shooter swings.”

And maybe even W himself is implicated, tho that seems less likely.

W *is* implicated, the testimony hints, because Cheney & Dubya apparently had a little chat, and Dubya OK’d Cheney to give the Plame info to Libby. So if Bush pardons Libby, does that make him an accessory to obstruction of justice?

Bob in HI

old gold @ 190

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 118

With respect to your first point, Scooter, if pardoned, – and let us keep in mind that he would have to admit guilt as a condition of accepting the pardon (see Burdick v. United States, a United States Supreme Court decision from 1915 for an explanation) – would not be able to invoke the Fifth Amendment if he were compelled to testify, as has been mentioned in comments in various FDL threads.

First, Burdick isn’t applicable. Libby was charged and convicted, unlike Burdick.
Second, Libby could avoid future perjury and obstruction charges by simply stating he doesn’t remember.

That being said, I hope that I am wrong and that Libby is incarcerated.

I believe I have read that a pardon does not require an admission of guilt, the guilt is only assumed if you accept the pardon

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 192

You weren’t correcting me; I already knew about that provision contained within the Fifth Amendment.

spoiling my fun

now no beer for me

Bob Schacht @ 193

PeterK @ 89

Maybe. But Libby was clearly running interference, probably for DC. So there is a danger for the WH if prison gets to him.

“If Scooter sings, Shooter swings.”

And maybe even W himself is implicated, tho that seems less likely.

W *is* implicated, the testimony hints, because Cheney & Dubya apparently had a little chat, and Dubya OK’d Cheney to give the Plame info to Libby. So if Bush pardons Libby, does that make him an accessory to obstruction of justice?

Bob in HI

Don’t know (I’m not a legal type), but even if it does, no problem. He can just pardon himself.

Bob in HI -

I like “the silence of our friends” and also Zuky (kai ching’s place). They’re both serious and intelligent and they happen to be people of color. The posts and the conversations are always first-rate.

I don’t have the chance to read any blog that often, but when I want something intellectual and meaty I’ll go there.

I’m not a POC but I’m glad I know about those sites. It’s a weird concept though, thinking about a color when you read such great stuff. Who knew and who cared that Steve Gilliard was black? But I understand your question. :)

Bustednuckles @ 193

Two fingered typing has it’s limitations for speed.

I’ve read something along those lines before.

P J Evans @ 43

OT:
If Alfred K is around, getting second opinion: upcoming sh*t here in SoCal. Survival gear and trade goods buying. Time frame not established, but I’d be surprised if it was longer than weeks.

I think our long-hanging shoe may be about to drop.

Um, if PJ is still around – can you fill me in? I’m in SoCal and thus a little curious… I’m sure Loo Hoo will be too.

On Bill Kristol,

Not the most reliable person. He apparently misread what Bush stated. As I read the words that were reported Bush people stated that the “process” was underway, not the “appeals process”. Bush is likely setting up his statement that he had been conducting his own “process” of reviewing the pardon when he grants the pardon.

perris @ 194

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 192

You weren’t correcting me; I already knew about that provision contained within the Fifth Amendment.

spoiling my fun

now no beer for me

aw perris. have one anyway. and have another for me. I’m gonna go finish my celebration bottle from last night! got to see Libby in person getting sentenced yesterday. met Jane and Marcy. was quite a day for this tired old fed.

TiredFed @ 185

it was posted outside the court. they left the June 4th calendar up since it was kinda early still on the 5th when I got there (a little before 9). maybe they changed it after we went in. sorry, that’s all I know. did you see the story mentioned at [109] above? there’s a photo of the calendar posted outside Walton’s courtroom.

Good interview with Amb. Wilson..

“This is Richard Cheney’s last attempt to try to stifle free speech in this country, and we’ll beat the son of a bitch on that too, if we have to,” Wilson told me in a 30-minute interview at his office in Santa Fe, New Mexico. “We will find the work-around to make sure this happens – that she will be able to tell her story, so that somebody other than Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, Rich Armitage and Karl Rove can talk about her.”

Leopold stood by his sealed vs. sealed story so some of us are keeping an open mind…

correction: it’s *kai chang*.

PeterK @ 195

Bob Schacht @ 193

W *is* implicated, the testimony hints, because Cheney & Dubya apparently had a little chat, and Dubya OK’d Cheney to give the Plame info to Libby. So if Bush pardons Libby, does that make him an accessory to obstruction of justice?

Bob in HI

Don’t know (I’m not a legal type), but even if it does, no problem. He can just pardon himself.

no he cant. and you know Rove would not have made a move unless Bush was involved.

TiredFed @ 201

perris @ 194

spoiling my fun

now no beer for me

aw perris. have one anyway. and have another for me. I’m gonna go finish my celebration bottle from last night! got to see Libby in person getting sentenced yesterday. met Jane and Marcy. was quite a day for this tired old fed.

Lucky guy! They must be great fun in person.

there’s new threadage upstairs

randiego @ 200

P J Evans @ 43

OT:
If Alfred K is around, getting second opinion: upcoming sh*t here in SoCal. Survival gear and trade goods buying. Time frame not established, but I’d be surprised if it was longer than weeks.

I think our long-hanging shoe may be about to drop.

Um, if PJ is still around – can you fill me in? I’m in SoCal and thus a little curious… I’m sure Loo Hoo will be too.

See PJ 143 –

Also, here is an earthquake map:

http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/latestfault.htm

TiredFed @ 204

PeterK @ 195

Don’t know (I’m not a legal type), but even if it does, no problem. He can just pardon himself.

no he cant. and you know Rove would not have made a move unless Bush was involved.

Seriously, he can’t? In any case, didn’t the SCOTUS decide (re BC) a sitting Prez can only be tried “if it doesn’t get in his way”?

old gold @ 12:52 pm -

First, Burdick isn’t applicable. Libby was charged and convicted, unlike Burdick.

It seems that Burdick was charged with contempt of court (I haven’t read the decision in some time) and chose the extraordinary step of requesting a Presidential pardon when there might have been a simpler remedy available to him.

Yes, as you correctly mention, Scooter has been charged and convicted, but he has yet to admit guilt or express remorse.

One question that may not have been answered in case law (if any attorneys reading this can add to my comments, please do so) is this: what constitute cases of impeachment? I think an attempt to answer my question appears in a Kentucky Supreme Court case that someone posted in an FDL thread at least two months ago.

PeterK @ 204

TiredFed @ 201

aw perris. have one anyway. and have another for me. I’m gonna go finish my celebration bottle from last night! got to see Libby in person getting sentenced yesterday. met Jane and Marcy. was quite a day for this tired old fed.

Lucky guy! They must be great fun in person.

I’m still in shock. Sat with Marcy all thru the SJC hearing (we both laughed when ALVIN spoke for the first time). was quite remarkable. and yes, she really can type 1,000 wpm and look around the room at the same time.

Bob Schacht @ 194

PeterK @ 89

Maybe. But Libby was clearly running interference, probably for DC. So there is a danger for the WH if prison gets to him.

“If Scooter sings, Shooter swings.”

And maybe even W himself is implicated, tho that seems less likely.

W *is* implicated, the testimony hints, because Cheney & Dubya apparently had a little chat, and Dubya OK’d Cheney to give the Plame info to Libby. So if Bush pardons Libby, does that make him an accessory to obstruction of justice?

Bob in HI

According to who though regarding the alleged chat? Libby? Cheney?

IMO, this whole operation was a Cheney deal

TiredFed @ 210

PeterK @ 204

Lucky guy! They must be great fun in person.

I’m still in shock. Sat with Marcy all thru the SJC hearing (we both laughed when ALVIN spoke for the first time). was quite remarkable. and yes, she really can type 1,000 wpm and look around the room at the same time.

Cool! I get the sense that she’s one of those people who can multitask at half speed.

Incidentally, who is ALVIN?

PeterK @ 207

TiredFed @ 204

no he cant. and you know Rove would not have made a move unless Bush was involved.

Seriously, he can’t? In any case, didn’t the SCOTUS decide (re BC) a sitting Prez can only be tried “if it doesn’t get in his way”?

nope. pardons cant be granted in cases of impeachment. also, impeachments cant be appealed to the SCOTUS. and greymail wouldn’t work, since Congress can go into closed session to consider. impeachment is the only way to go folks.

PeterK @ 211

TiredFed @ 210

I’m still in shock. Sat with Marcy all thru the SJC hearing (we both laughed when ALVIN spoke for the first time). was quite remarkable. and yes, she really can type 1,000 wpm and look around the room at the same time.

Cool! I get the sense that she’s one of those people who can multitask at half speed.

Incidentally, who is ALVIN?

sorry. FDL nickname for Bradley Schlozman, due to the chipmunk-like quality of his voice. it was even worse in person.

TiredFed @ 212

(we both laughed when ALVIN spoke for the first time).

along those lines, don’t miss this from newspaperbrat last night. it’s not PC, but just give it a look

Alvin was one of the Chipmunks

Haven’t read the thread yet but I was wondering if the Very Importand Friends of Libby copied Bush on their letters to Walton?

PeterK @ 183

. . .

Sorry–what is IIRC?

If I Remember Correctly.
I find it very useful :-)

Bob in HI

PeterK @ 187

Tom in AZ @ 180

Yeah, I could actually get some work done then.

You want to get work done, you better get off FDL! It’s way too addictive.

DING!

Bob in HI

Stephen Parrish at #210:
Burdick did not ‘choose the extraordinary step of requesting a Presidential pardon.’ When the pardon was issued he had not been charged. In fact, Burdick refused to accept the pardon.

Would it be useful to have a list of acronyms and special terms used in the posts available somewhere on FDL, so people could look them up? I’ve come across so many that I started compiling one. Sometimes it takes quite a while to figure them out (or you have to ask), in my experience.

Great takedown of Kristol by Tbogg. The man deserves it.

punaise @ 217

TiredFed @ 212

(we both laughed when ALVIN spoke for the first time).

along those lines, don’t miss this from newspaperbrat last night. it’s not PC, but just give it a look

Poor bastard flat out loses it, don’t he?

Regarding the letters. That was about leniency.

A pardon is a different matter entirely. I wouldn’t assume that all the letter writers are on board with that

PeterK @ 198

Bob Schacht @ 193

W *is* implicated, the testimony hints, because Cheney & Dubya apparently had a little chat, and Dubya OK’d Cheney to give the Plame info to Libby. So if Bush pardons Libby, does that make him an accessory to obstruction of justice?

Bob in HI

Don’t know (I’m not a legal type), but even if it does, no problem. He can just pardon himself.

I don’t think so. But that really WOULD be daring Congress to impeach him, wouldn’t it?

Bob in HI

punaise @ 152

John Casper @ 137

Seconded and btw that’s how I found FDL too.

remember when a fifty comment thread was noteworthy?

Yes.

Jenny from the Blog @ 199

Bob in HI -

I like “the silence of our friends” and also Zuky (kai ching’s place). They’re both serious and intelligent and they happen to be people of color. The posts and the conversations are always first-rate.

I don’t have the chance to read any blog that often, but when I want something intellectual and meaty I’ll go there.

I’m not a POC but I’m glad I know about those sites. It’s a weird concept though, thinking about a color when you read such great stuff. Who knew and who cared that Steve Gilliard was black? But I understand your question. :)

Thanks!
I think this is an issue because blogs tend to sort themselves out. It is in our interest as progressives to encourage diversity– right here at FDL, too. And to foster intercommunication, too. I hope Jane and Christy will seek out the Steve Gilliards of blogdom and invite them to FDL for a chat, maybe to talk about diversity issues in the netroots. I wonder if that’s a subject up at YearlyKos?

The more diverse we are, the more influential we can be.

Bob in HI

neokneme @ 204

TiredFed @ 185

it was posted outside the court. they left the June 4th calendar up since it was kinda early still on the 5th when I got there (a little before 9). maybe they changed it after we went in. sorry, that’s all I know. did you see the story mentioned at [109] above? there’s a photo of the calendar posted outside Walton’s courtroom.

Good interview with Amb. Wilson..

“This is Richard Cheney’s last attempt to try to stifle free speech in this country, and we’ll beat the son of a bitch on that too, if we have to,” Wilson told me in a 30-minute interview at his office in Santa Fe, New Mexico. “We will find the work-around to make sure this happens – that she will be able to tell her story, so that somebody other than Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, Rich Armitage and Karl Rove can talk about her.”

Leopold stood by his sealed vs. sealed story so some of us are keeping an open mind…

Of course, we now know that even though we can’t find out what Sealed vs. Sealed is about, or who is involved, there are about 100 people in the DOJ and WH who can read the whole thing. Including, of course, Cheney and Rove. Its just absolutely disgusting.

Bob in HI

Cozumel @ 213

Bob Schacht @ 194

W *is* implicated, the testimony hints, because Cheney & Dubya apparently had a little chat, and Dubya OK’d Cheney to give the Plame info to Libby. So if Bush pardons Libby, does that make him an accessory to obstruction of justice?

Bob in HI

According to who though regarding the alleged chat? Libby? Cheney?

IMO, this whole operation was a Cheney deal

The evidence I’m thinking of was all made public during Libby’s trial. Sorry, I can’t cite chapter and verse.

I agree with your conclusion, with the addition that some of it was cooked up in collusion with Bush himself.

Bob in HI

P J Evans @ 144

LS @ 59

It was late-late nite Sat and talking-heads on Sun. Premonitions.

The long-hanging shoe is WRT our major transform fault, which has been locked between Cajon Pass and Parkfield for decades, maybe all the way back to the late 19th century: nothing over 2.0 for the last umpteen years (and d*mned few of those). This week, two 3 (3.7, 3.5) in the same area, middle of the locked section, in a 24-hour period. (This is not a good sign. Something’s breaking loose.)

i don’t see any reference for this on USGS, only a 4.2 on 6/1 near Indio. Can you provide a link?

randiego @ 232

P J Evans @ 144

LS @ 59

It was late-late nite Sat and talking-heads on Sun. Premonitions.

The long-hanging shoe is WRT our major transform fault, which has been locked between Cajon Pass and Parkfield for decades, maybe all the way back to the late 19th century: nothing over 2.0 for the last umpteen years (and d*mned few of those). This week, two 3 (3.7, 3.5) in the same area, middle of the locked section, in a 24-hour period. (This is not a good sign. Something’s breaking loose.)

i don’t see any reference for this on USGS, only a 4.2 on 6/1 near Indio. Can you provide a link?

P J — you hear any chatter about unusual radio signals or “snow” being picked up by ham radio operators? There have been other incidences where unusual noise has been documented in advance of a “slip” type earthquake.

John Casper @ 138

punaise @ 52

as the dust settles: found my way to FDL via the Plame case way back in 2005, so this outcome represents a real, long-awaited milestone. of course, it’s not as satisfying as actual prosecution of the leaker would have been, but within the narrow scope of actual crimes charged this is a win. big thank you to Jane, Christy, Marcy et al.

Seconded and btw that’s how I found FDL too.

Oct, 2005, blew a knee out and down 2 months. Thankyou, thankyou, so much shit under the bridge. Given hope when reality was in worp-drive. Have a hard time squeezing in now and then. I love to lurk at the lake.

Still seething over the 150 letters of support and as despicable as each was, none got me more than Matalin and Carville’s.

james@carville.info is where he can reached to thank him for finally showing himself to be the vile creature he is.